July 24, 2025 • 11 mins
Wedbush analyst Dan Ives discusses difficult times ahead for Tesla Inc. after one of the automaker’s worst quarters in over a decade. Elon Musk said Tesla will be in a transition period for the next year or more, losing electric vehicle incentives in the US and needing time to roll out autonomous vehicles. Gene Munster, managing partner at Deepwater Asset Management, said investors were looking for more near-term specifics on autonomy, but Tesla offered little on key robotaxi milestones. Ives spoke with Bloomberg's Tom Keene and Paul Sweeney.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Joining us now from
Snowflake Clothing, Dan, i'ves joins us this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thank you for toning it down. Dan. I'm apoplectic this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Over what I saw is a complete reaffirmation of the
Google model.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's out there. I'm gonna do a major shout out
to as a fitch over it. Heard in the street
on the Wall Street Journal, who I think really nailed?
I was OMG? Was I right to be? Omg? At
four twenty yesterday afternoon? I mean, look this it.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I think it's a game changer for the whole story
because it shows like Google, now there was a view
they're in the defensive. AI is going to ruin their
search business now look at look at search, mass advertising, struck, YouTube, cloud,
better things back and then the best thing by then
increasing cap bax ten billion. That's then basically beat in
(01:02):
their chest saying hey in this arm.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I went and looked at it, folks. You can do
this with the WACC screen. Good morning, mister Secunda. The
way did the average cost a capitol screen on the
Bloomberg an added ten billion of capax for Google is
basically trying to buy another house out in Menlo Park.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's like a rounding error.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
That's it's exactly and look Tom, the last thing that
they could be is on the outside looking in on
this AI arms race. And I think the view, look,
we think on a large cap perspective, this has been
the most over sold stock relative.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'll go with it.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
And again I get like DOJ regulatory, But the view
that AI is going to ruin Alphabet's business is dramatically flowed.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Let's go touch a feey concept here, it's away.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Lisa Rolls, what did we learn yesterday about how we
use AI.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
With our searches? I think we learned something new yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I think what you learn is that you do those searches.
Google's going to play a huge part. And I think
if you look at like actual like advertising, you look
at like search results, you look at all the underlying metrics,
it shows that it's actually an accelerant for their business.
That's something that takes away and I think that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Is Paul Dan's code. Okay, for those of you on radio,
it looks like look at his code. It's like a
truckboard in a physics lecture.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
It's not kill tech it's very troubling.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
In a Cartesian space.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Continue, search revenue is number of clicks times revenue per click.
I'm clicking materially less. How does that not bead for
their search case?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
So that you can say it's bad now. But the
view is is that Paul, given what they're doing in
terms of investments in AI, given where they view ultimately
the future, that when you're going to come back in
terms of searching through models, through through actually like LMS,
Google is going to play a role in monetizing that
(03:03):
and even on the advertising side. And I think that's
really the view is that this is not something that's
structurally gonna be a threat to their business.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's actually the opposite.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
They're gonna turn it into what I view.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
As a towel.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And I think that's what Tom's talking about. That's what
came out last night, is that this is not a
company on the defensive.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
This is coming on the offense.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Okay, all right, So, and we're seeing that in this
in the stock the stocks up three point six percent
here today, although it's flat for the year, so it's
there's definitely concern out there in the marketplace about this story.
Here more concern is with Tesla. I don't know, man,
My hat's off to you hanging with this dude, But
making cars is not a good business for anybody. It's
(03:45):
never has been. So he's trying to redirect us to
all this other stuff, which fine, you know, a lot
of people will bank on this guy. Where should we
be focusing our attention on the Tesla story because I
don't want to be bending metal here.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Look but me, we've talked about for years, like I
don't view this as a car company, and you never
have right nowlogies. But to me, the future is about AI.
It's about physical AI in terms of autonomous robotics. No
this quarter, in the next few quarters, there is nothing
right at home about right in terms of actual deliveries, demand,
(04:17):
gross margins EPs. But if you look at the story
over the long term, I believe ninety percent of the
future value is about robotaxis autonomous. Eventually, it's going to
be optimist that when it comes to physical AI, and
Jensen talks about this all the time, the two best
physical AI plays are Tesla in the video.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Okay, that I mean, that's obviously the future here. Give
us that the mile post. We should be if we're
taking our attention away from the car business, what are
some of the mile posts for these other businesses shoulday
attention to.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
So well, first off, from a robotaxic perspective, you're looking
to be in twenty.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Five cities in the next year. Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So our team was in Austin. We saw Robotaxi front center.
So you're seeing that expansing diffinitely in Austin. California's next,
then Florida and bunch other Okay, you know, see, look,
and I believe one of the big mile posts that
everyone's looking for is, you know, at some point, probably
early twenty six, when Keyn's in a robo taxi and
(05:15):
the thing is, I do think that I do think
that that will happen.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay, Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I mean Tom, when Tom's in a roto taxi, Yeah,
I might be mine.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Good look for that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Dan Ives is here in your commune across the nation,
particularly good early early morning in the sixteen miles between
Menlo Park and Coopertino.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How did Coopertino digest the Google earnings yesterday?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
You know, the basic you know, I can just see
the leadership of Google and Apple taking a breakfast or
lunch at Mademoiselle Collette, you know, some fancy place out
there where everybody eats herbal And the answer is, how
does Apple take this?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
To me, it's a huge deal for Apple weave.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I think that the view that Google is going to
become less important Apple is the exact opt.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
An agreement with that talk about. We've said it. It's
a two part thing.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think you need to get a significant sort of
upping of that partnership with Google because when you look
at partners that's one that they're going to bet on.
In terms of Apple, and I continue as I've talked about,
I think for the first time, they're going to have
to do an acquisition. Like I told you, I think
perplexity continues to be the one that they should go after,
because my whole point is we should Apple should go
(06:33):
after perplexity.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And let's let's dig into that time. Full disclosure, folks.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Mister Secunda, one of the founders of Bloomberg, is hugely
influential in AI with the Secunda Foundation, and he leads
with perplexity.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
What is perplexity When.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
You think about models, chat, GPT, you know anyone that
uses perplexity as you know, I've used probably one of
the best next gen AI models out there. The reason
it's so important and some disagree, but Apple needs to
make an aggressive move. They cannot watch this AI revolution
and just when it pass by. That's why I think
(07:09):
what you saw from Alphabet was a stepping up when
it comes to Apple. You know, if you go back WWDC,
they really hardly even mentioned AI, and I think the
time has come for them to make aggressive moves in AI,
and that will be the big focus next week in
the conference.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Lisa, what's the most herbal macha coffee thing in the morning, Like,
what would be the typical West Coast you know, a
healthy coffee thing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It's called a dirty macha Cooper Tina.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
This morning, the team's having their dirty matchas to get
the days started again. How does Apple respond to what
we learned thirteen percent YouTube growth?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Thank you folks for that. I'm living it every day.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And the answer is how does Apple respond to perplexity,
to Gemini and to Google's you know, their embedded relationship Google.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
If you can't beat them, join them, Like they're basically
going to have to double down on the partnership. Despite
all the words in terms of d J and everything
that Google is dealing with. And I think for Apple,
look this, you have the best global install based in
the world consumer. You have two point four billion device
one point five billion iPhones. Now's the time to start
(08:22):
to monetize AI. But that's not going to happen internally.
It's not going to happen within the walls of Apple Park.
It needs to happen through partnerships and what I believe
ultimately is an acquisition tom.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
This is courtesy of Google AI. A dirty Macha, also
known as a macha espresso fusion, is a popular beverage
that combines the earthly flavor of macha tea with the
bold intensity of a shot or two of espresso.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
In terms of like single, best Buy, web Bush, I
mean it's great.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I love the snowflake. Look you look like Heinman's Physics
last years ago when you got that what's the hat?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Damn it? Yeah, Majorca hat.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
It's a you know, it's from Majorca to one of
my Orca It's just my Orca hat. And look it's
it's one where you know this is I mean to
me when I look at like Webbush, best Buy, the
best names. I believe it's Microsoft here. This is the
one that you know because this is the one. It's
(09:27):
not just about four trillion, it's about as the enterprise
AI plays out in the backyard of red. It's Nandella
that's gonna does.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Think of what Google did yesterday.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I think what Google did yesterday on Google Cloud, I
think just speaks further what you're going to see what
they did on Azure coming next week. But the most
important thing is that everything that Google's doing, all the investment,
everything is sand search gets who eventually benefits.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Because they're the toll.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Microsoft's the toll collector. It doesn't matter who's there in
one way or know you're paying them as more and
more moved to the cloud right and it's AI driven
that continues.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
One final question, this is so important the gloom crew
on dan Ives.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Did you know I understand there's haters out there.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Now, haters, haters.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Lisa, and then you know thousands others, the dan Ives haters.
You have been so right, including pounding the table the
first week of April. I want you to speak to
the haters right now about the X axis of the
ives tech boom.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Look, I think the haters, you know, and right now
they're they're in the hibernation mood in those caves. They
can find AI in the spreadsheets. And I think part
of the problem is that they're underestimating the Fourth Industrial Revolution.
And as I've said, what.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Does that mean?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Look three millionaire miles.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Ask walking test speech.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Look it point is three millionaire miles to last twenty
five years. It's about seeing what's happening in the world.
And if you look what's happened in Asia and you
look at Chipped the man, we are only it is
fractional where we are relative to the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It's our view.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It's ten pm in the AI party. It was nine
pm and the party goes to four am.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I'm gonna say this is simple as I can.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
We keep tracked.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We learn from people who are wrong, we learn from
people who are right. But it's this thematic idea of
where we are folks right now to me, I said
this last.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Night to missus Keane. It's like late nineteen ninety four,
early nineteen ninety five and Dan.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Ives was in a bar with a Budweiser in his
hand saying, Codje Google's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Buy a dog file.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
It's nineteen ninety five, not ninety ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Good Jedives, Thank you so much with Medbush
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Joining us now from
Snowflake Clothing, Dan, i'ves joins us this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thank you for toning it down. Dan. I'm apoplectic this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Over what I saw is a complete reaffirmation of the
Google model.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's out there. I'm gonna do a major shout out
to as a fitch over it. Heard in the street
on the Wall Street Journal, who I think really nailed?
I was OMG? Was I right to be? Omg? At
four twenty yesterday afternoon? I mean, look this it.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I think it's a game changer for the whole story
because it shows like Google, now there was a view
they're in the defensive. AI is going to ruin their
search business now look at look at search, mass advertising, struck, YouTube, cloud,
better things back and then the best thing by then
increasing cap bax ten billion. That's then basically beat in
(01:02):
their chest saying hey in this arm.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I went and looked at it, folks. You can do
this with the WACC screen. Good morning, mister Secunda. The
way did the average cost a capitol screen on the
Bloomberg an added ten billion of capax for Google is
basically trying to buy another house out in Menlo Park.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's like a rounding error.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
That's it's exactly and look Tom, the last thing that
they could be is on the outside looking in on
this AI arms race. And I think the view, look,
we think on a large cap perspective, this has been
the most over sold stock relative.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'll go with it.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
And again I get like DOJ regulatory, But the view
that AI is going to ruin Alphabet's business is dramatically flowed.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Let's go touch a feey concept here, it's away.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Lisa Rolls, what did we learn yesterday about how we
use AI.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
With our searches? I think we learned something new yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I think what you learn is that you do those searches.
Google's going to play a huge part. And I think
if you look at like actual like advertising, you look
at like search results, you look at all the underlying metrics,
it shows that it's actually an accelerant for their business.
That's something that takes away and I think that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Is Paul Dan's code. Okay, for those of you on radio,
it looks like look at his code. It's like a
truckboard in a physics lecture.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
It's not kill tech it's very troubling.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
In a Cartesian space.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Continue, search revenue is number of clicks times revenue per click.
I'm clicking materially less. How does that not bead for
their search case?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
So that you can say it's bad now. But the
view is is that Paul, given what they're doing in
terms of investments in AI, given where they view ultimately
the future, that when you're going to come back in
terms of searching through models, through through actually like LMS,
Google is going to play a role in monetizing that
(03:03):
and even on the advertising side. And I think that's
really the view is that this is not something that's
structurally gonna be a threat to their business.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's actually the opposite.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
They're gonna turn it into what I view.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
As a towel.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And I think that's what Tom's talking about. That's what
came out last night, is that this is not a
company on the defensive.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
This is coming on the offense.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Okay, all right, So, and we're seeing that in this
in the stock the stocks up three point six percent
here today, although it's flat for the year, so it's
there's definitely concern out there in the marketplace about this story.
Here more concern is with Tesla. I don't know, man,
My hat's off to you hanging with this dude, But
making cars is not a good business for anybody. It's
(03:45):
never has been. So he's trying to redirect us to
all this other stuff, which fine, you know, a lot
of people will bank on this guy. Where should we
be focusing our attention on the Tesla story because I
don't want to be bending metal here.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Look but me, we've talked about for years, like I
don't view this as a car company, and you never
have right nowlogies. But to me, the future is about AI.
It's about physical AI in terms of autonomous robotics. No
this quarter, in the next few quarters, there is nothing
right at home about right in terms of actual deliveries, demand,
(04:17):
gross margins EPs. But if you look at the story
over the long term, I believe ninety percent of the
future value is about robotaxis autonomous. Eventually, it's going to
be optimist that when it comes to physical AI, and
Jensen talks about this all the time, the two best
physical AI plays are Tesla in the video.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Okay, that I mean, that's obviously the future here. Give
us that the mile post. We should be if we're
taking our attention away from the car business, what are
some of the mile posts for these other businesses shoulday
attention to.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
So well, first off, from a robotaxic perspective, you're looking
to be in twenty.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Five cities in the next year. Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
So our team was in Austin. We saw Robotaxi front center.
So you're seeing that expansing diffinitely in Austin. California's next,
then Florida and bunch other Okay, you know, see, look,
and I believe one of the big mile posts that
everyone's looking for is, you know, at some point, probably
early twenty six, when Keyn's in a robo taxi and
(05:15):
the thing is, I do think that I do think
that that will happen.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay, Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
I mean Tom, when Tom's in a roto taxi, Yeah,
I might be mine.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Good look for that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Dan Ives is here in your commune across the nation,
particularly good early early morning in the sixteen miles between
Menlo Park and Coopertino.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
How did Coopertino digest the Google earnings yesterday?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
You know, the basic you know, I can just see
the leadership of Google and Apple taking a breakfast or
lunch at Mademoiselle Collette, you know, some fancy place out
there where everybody eats herbal And the answer is, how
does Apple take this?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
To me, it's a huge deal for Apple weave.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
I think that the view that Google is going to
become less important Apple is the exact opt.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
An agreement with that talk about. We've said it. It's
a two part thing.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I think you need to get a significant sort of
upping of that partnership with Google because when you look
at partners that's one that they're going to bet on.
In terms of Apple, and I continue as I've talked about,
I think for the first time, they're going to have
to do an acquisition. Like I told you, I think
perplexity continues to be the one that they should go after,
because my whole point is we should Apple should go
(06:33):
after perplexity.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
And let's let's dig into that time. Full disclosure, folks.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Mister Secunda, one of the founders of Bloomberg, is hugely
influential in AI with the Secunda Foundation, and he leads
with perplexity.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
What is perplexity When.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
You think about models, chat, GPT, you know anyone that
uses perplexity as you know, I've used probably one of
the best next gen AI models out there. The reason
it's so important and some disagree, but Apple needs to
make an aggressive move. They cannot watch this AI revolution
and just when it pass by. That's why I think
(07:09):
what you saw from Alphabet was a stepping up when
it comes to Apple. You know, if you go back WWDC,
they really hardly even mentioned AI, and I think the
time has come for them to make aggressive moves in AI,
and that will be the big focus next week in
the conference.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Lisa, what's the most herbal macha coffee thing in the morning, Like,
what would be the typical West Coast you know, a
healthy coffee thing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It's called a dirty macha Cooper Tina.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
This morning, the team's having their dirty matchas to get
the days started again. How does Apple respond to what
we learned thirteen percent YouTube growth?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Thank you folks for that. I'm living it every day.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And the answer is how does Apple respond to perplexity,
to Gemini and to Google's you know, their embedded relationship Google.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
If you can't beat them, join them, Like they're basically
going to have to double down on the partnership. Despite
all the words in terms of d J and everything
that Google is dealing with. And I think for Apple,
look this, you have the best global install based in
the world consumer. You have two point four billion device
one point five billion iPhones. Now's the time to start
(08:22):
to monetize AI. But that's not going to happen internally.
It's not going to happen within the walls of Apple Park.
It needs to happen through partnerships and what I believe
ultimately is an acquisition tom.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
This is courtesy of Google AI. A dirty Macha, also
known as a macha espresso fusion, is a popular beverage
that combines the earthly flavor of macha tea with the
bold intensity of a shot or two of espresso.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
In terms of like single, best Buy, web Bush, I
mean it's great.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I love the snowflake. Look you look like Heinman's Physics
last years ago when you got that what's the hat?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Damn it? Yeah, Majorca hat.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
It's a you know, it's from Majorca to one of
my Orca It's just my Orca hat. And look it's
it's one where you know this is I mean to
me when I look at like Webbush, best Buy, the
best names. I believe it's Microsoft here. This is the
one that you know because this is the one. It's
(09:27):
not just about four trillion, it's about as the enterprise
AI plays out in the backyard of red. It's Nandella
that's gonna does.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Think of what Google did yesterday.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I think what Google did yesterday on Google Cloud, I
think just speaks further what you're going to see what
they did on Azure coming next week. But the most
important thing is that everything that Google's doing, all the investment,
everything is sand search gets who eventually benefits.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Because they're the toll.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Microsoft's the toll collector. It doesn't matter who's there in
one way or know you're paying them as more and
more moved to the cloud right and it's AI driven
that continues.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
One final question, this is so important the gloom crew
on dan Ives.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Did you know I understand there's haters out there.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Now, haters, haters.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Lisa, and then you know thousands others, the dan Ives haters.
You have been so right, including pounding the table the
first week of April. I want you to speak to
the haters right now about the X axis of the
ives tech boom.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Look, I think the haters, you know, and right now
they're they're in the hibernation mood in those caves. They
can find AI in the spreadsheets. And I think part
of the problem is that they're underestimating the Fourth Industrial Revolution.
And as I've said, what.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Does that mean?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Look three millionaire miles.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Ask walking test speech.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Look it point is three millionaire miles to last twenty
five years. It's about seeing what's happening in the world.
And if you look what's happened in Asia and you
look at Chipped the man, we are only it is
fractional where we are relative to the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
It's our view.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It's ten pm in the AI party. It was nine
pm and the party goes to four am.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I'm gonna say this is simple as I can.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
We keep tracked.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We learn from people who are wrong, we learn from
people who are right. But it's this thematic idea of
where we are folks right now to me, I said
this last.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Night to missus Keane. It's like late nineteen ninety four,
early nineteen ninety five and Dan.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Ives was in a bar with a Budweiser in his
hand saying, Codje Google's.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Buy a dog file.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
It's nineteen ninety five, not ninety ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Good Jedives, Thank you so much with Medbush
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The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.