May 8, 2024 • 43 mins
Mother of five, Crystal Rogers is last seen July 3 by her live-in boyfriend, Brooks Houck. Crystal Rogers mother, Sherry Ballard, reports her missing on July 5. Later that day, Crystal Rogers red Chevy Malibu is found abandoned on the Bluegrass Parkway. The car has a flat tire, but Rogers' keys, phone and purse are still inside. 16-months later, Crystal Rogers is still missing and her father, Sherry Ballard's husband, Tommy Ballard, is murdered in the early morning hours as he prepares to go hunting on his own property with his 12-year-old grandson.
Ballard is shot from an undetermined distance, but his property backs up against the Bluegrass Parkway. It's a fast getaway in either direction for a gunman. On this episode of Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack explore the disappearance of Crystal Rogers and the murder of her dad, Tommy Ballard. Plus, Joseph Scott Morgan explains how prosecutors can prove Crystal Rogers was murdered, even though they haven't found her body.
Transcribe Highlights
00:12.12 Introduction of growing up with PaPaw Morgan
03:34.36 Discuss Crystal Rogers missing, her father Tommy Ballard murdered
06:15.27 Discussion of Bardstown Kentucky
07:46.82 Discussion of why Brooks Houck didn't report Rogers missing
08:13.81 Talk about Crystal Rogers car found on Bluegrass parkway
15:45.34 Talk Rogers car found with flat tire, she is still missing
18:16.83 Discussion of Brooks Houck, suspect, brother is police officer
21:13.58 Discussion of police letting Houck talk to his brother on phone
26:27.16 Talk about tracking dogs pick up Crystal Rogers scent at farm, but not at her car
31:09.10. Discussion 16 months after Crystal Rogers vanishes, her dad, Tommy Ballard killed
34:36.43 Discussion of how bullet twists the skin
39:02.99 Discussion of Tommy Ballard hunting, murdered on his own property
40:52.53 Discussion of murder charges without a body
43:45.73 Conclusion - waiting for trial
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Look y'all, I know
I talked about my childhood periodically on Body Bags, and
everybody has good and bad in their life. Everybody doesn't
matter who you are, nobody's immune to it. But in
(00:31):
my childhood, the good times stand out to me more
so than the bad. And I could complain about the
bad if I wanted to, but at this point in
my life, I like to think about the good. And
one of the really cool things about my childhood is
that I spent a lot of time with my paternal grandparents,
(00:51):
and my grandfather, who I call Papau Morgan. I love
that man. He's a big man, real big men. He
still raised mules, if you can imagine that for people
that would There were actually a group of guys that
would buy mules from him that wanted them to pull wagons.
(01:12):
And there was actually one old man that still preferred
a mule drawn plow over a tractor. But when I
had free time with my pipe all morning, one of
the things that he would take me to do too,
actually was to fish for bluegill that's brim with cane pole.
(01:32):
And number two was to go hunting. Now, think about
this is that in my family, everything my family did
was for subsistence. They had a huge garden, and it's
not like it was a hobby. They had to have
a garden and it was massive, and they worked in
it all the time. When they went hunting, it wasn't
(01:54):
like it was a pleasure trip. My grandfather would probably
look back and laugh at these guys pay thousands and
thousands of dollars to go out and hunt from a helicopter.
He did it so that he could put food on
the table. Now one of his primary things that he
would hunt for. And I know many of you guys
will recoil over this, will squirrel. My grandmother could take
(02:18):
a squirrel and she would make squirrel and rice and
it was one of the best tasting things in the world. Now,
as I've gotten older, squirrel is not necessarily in my
repertoire anymore as it were. But I remember going out
in those piny woods in North Louisiana with my papa
walking along five six seven years old, and no, he
(02:40):
didn't give me a gun. I just walked along with him,
and his eyes were always toward the sky, looking at
the tops of those trees and he'd buy a squirrel
every single time, and that was pure joy to me,
just being with him, learning from him, covering my ears
from sound of that twelve gage shot gun.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Of going on.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
But today we're going to talk about a case that
involves two deaths. One you're very familiar with, Crystal Rogers,
and the other maybe not so much, but just as
important in this case is Crystal rogers daddy, who went
(03:22):
by the name Tommy Tommy Ballard. He was actually shot
and killed while walking through the woods with his twelve
year old grandson. And it's for that reason I really
wanted to talk about this case today. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is Body Bags. The older I get, Dave,
(03:46):
the more I would desire to have a time machine.
I wish I could go back in time and see
my Papa, my granny again. I wish I could to
sit at my granny's kitchen table. And they have a
very very tiny house. Their kitchen table was their dining
room as well. We would have Christmas meals and Thanksgiving
(04:10):
meals in the same room where they were being prepared,
you know. But it was a it was a joyful scene.
It was always warm and everybody's sit around the table
and we talked about things. I remember sitting next to
my granddaddy and he would actually the way he would complain.
He would complain about coffee because he liked it strong.
My granny's name was Pearl. He'd be sitting there and
(04:32):
I think she did this on purpose. He's a big man.
She'd make him drink out of these little, tiny, tiny
coffee cups with a saucer, and if if the coffee
wasn't strong enough, he'd say, Earl, you run out of coffee,
Oh my goodness. And so you know, that was that
was kind of his way. And it had to have
chickry in it by you know, in Louisiana. Chickry is
(04:55):
a thing that developed back in you know, I think
probably pre Civil War. But they would, you know, Southerners
shall make coffee out of anything, and it had that.
It's horrible taste to me. I don't like it. I
know some of you guys will take a fist of
that too, probably, but I just don't like chick or coffee.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Whenever I hear the name Pearl used as a Southern
woman's name, the Beverly Hillbillies and Lester Flatt and Earl Scrugs.
You know, Earl Pearl. Don't give your love to Earl.
I just remember that. But Bartstown, Kentucky, if you look
it up, you're gonna find out there is a number
of stories I bought. Bardstown, beautiful town in Kentucky. The
(05:32):
sad part is the most of the stories that you
read are going to be of unsolved murders. Oh, not
unsolved deaths. We're talking unsolved murders in this case where
right off the top mentioning Crystal Rogers and her father,
Tommy Ballard. Now, Crystal Rogers body has never been found.
Tommy Ballard died sixteen months after Crystal went missing, and
(05:56):
the only thing we know for sure is that he
didn't kill himself because his gun had not been fired.
That was something that was bandied about at first. Yeah,
in the cases we're talking about today, the FBI had
to be called in. And oftentimes that is the case
when you might have a conflict internally, the FBI has
(06:17):
to be invited in. They don't just come in and
take over, right, And we had in Bardstown, Kentucky. You
have Bartstown Police Department, and you have the Sheriff's Department.
In this case, Crystal Rogers and Brooks Houck had a
two and a half year old toddler that they biologically
were the parents, and Crystal Rogers had four other children
and they were living together under the same roof as
(06:40):
husband and wife Brooks Howe and Crystal Rogers. Now Crystal
Rogers went missing. Her car was found on the side
of the road two days after she was reported missing.
And we're talking about in twenty fifteen, around the fourth
of July holiday twenty fifteen, when Crystal Rogers went missing,
it wasn't Brooks how that reported his partner, live in partner,
(07:01):
they cohabitated. That's what boggles my mind. He had a
report her missing, Joe. She was reported missing by her mother.
Because when Brooks house is in Bardstown and he sees
Crystal Rogers mother and she said, hey, Brooks, I hadn't
talked to I hadn't talked to Crystal. Where is she?
He's I don't know, I hadn't seen her. What don't
y'all live together? What do you mean you haven't seen her?
(07:22):
And Brooks just goes on about as mary Way like
nothing's up. Crystal Rogers mother goes, well, I'm reporting her missing,
and she goes right to the police station. Right then,
she knows something is up because this is not how
she has a relationship with her daughter. They talk every day,
they see each other all the time. I mean this
was a very small town. They knew one another, okay
in terms of friends and family, and not seeing somebody,
(07:44):
not talking to somebody is an unusual occurrence, and saying
I don't know is not a good answer.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, you're you're right. And it's that familial circle you
know that you and I talk about so often, Dave.
If there's anything that disrupts that, and a lot of
it depends upon the other people within that circle and
how acutely aware they are of the situation that's going
on with you know, the dynamics of a couple and
that sort of thing. Is there anything that that kind
(08:12):
of stinks? You know, that just doesn't line up? And look, man,
when when you begin to think about how first off,
she had not had contact with her mother, right, and
you've got the person in her life that okay, let's
face it is the most intimate relationship that you.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Probably have a year old child together.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Oh boy. Yeah, And they're domicile together. Yeah, you know,
to top things off, you you had mentioned something and
this roadway is going to come up a couple of times.
And remind me, Dave, I'm ever heading up to Kentucky, which,
by the way, I love that state is one of
the most beautiful places. The farms and oh my gosh,
it's it's striking when you're up there. But if I'm
(08:55):
going up there, remind me to stay off the Bluegrass Parkway.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
No, especially around Bardstown. Get off a walk, get a mutle,
do not drive on that highway.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I know it's like you know, that keeps coming up.
And you know, when you have a person that is
missing and you have their vehicle found along the roadway.
First off, when you walk up to the vehicle, police
officers going to check and see, well, check one box,
is anybody in it? And if it's absent any sign
(09:28):
of life or maybe somebody that's sleeping or maybe something
really bad. You're thinking maybe they're deceased and they're laying
inside the visible space, which, by the way, is a
principle within law when if a police officer can walk
up and actually evidence something inside of a vehicle, that's
(09:48):
immediately cause for them to want to explore further. And
sometimes if somebody's in danger, they don't necessarily have to
have a warrant at that moment time because it's the
idea that it's an emergent situation. I actually worked a
case and you might find this interesting of a fellow
that was we found dead on the highway, dumped in
(10:08):
the middle of I two eighty five in Atlanta on
a ramp, and this guy had been brutalized. He was
shot multiple times, including in the head. It turns out
that this fellow was at the Final Four in Atlanta.
He had tickets to the ball games games. He got
robbed by two guys. They took his car and they
(10:31):
were later caught in Ohio for speeding or breaking center line.
And guess what the cop wound up seeing when he
walked up to the car and pulled him over. It's
like that scene from pulp fiction where Marvin gets shot
in the head and they said, man, what do you shoot?
Why do you shoot? Marvin? And the whole back of
the interior that car is an Ohio State trooper. I'll
never forget. This was just blasted with blood deposition.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Oh he been killed in the car.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
In Atlanta, and they had driven his car to Ohio. Man,
so you know when you when you're taking care of
that man, the wolf's on it. Huh. So when you
you get up, you know, a police officer walks up
to a vehicle. Now, obviously that's a that's a stop
when you find a car abandoned on the side of
the road. And how many times do you ride down
(11:17):
the road, Dave and you might see a car sitting
on side of the road and it's been there for
a while, and you're thinking, has anybody ever stopped to
take a look at that car? What's going on with that?
And why is it still here? Why have the authority
has not had it removed because it's obviously a hazard.
It's dangerous, you know, to have these things on the
shoulder of the road. But they're going to check inside
of it and they're going to look for any evidence. Now,
(11:38):
what stood out to you relative to when they they
got to her car and and they began to inspect it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The fact that it was found after she's reported missing. Okay,
Bluegrass Parkway is a busy thoroughfare. It would have been noticed.
I would have thought before this okay if it had
been there, So that's number one. Number two, the car
is found with a flat tire by Maril Mark or
(12:06):
fourteen on the Bluegrass Parkway. The keys are still in
the ignition, and her purse and cell phone are inside.
If the keys are in the ignition, her purse and
cell phone are inside the car, and there's a flat tire.
If you assume that she had a flat tire and
pulled over and then had to leave to go get help,
(12:27):
she would have left with her keys, her purse, her
cell phone, just normal stuff that we would grab to leave.
So immediately, you know, it appears to me to be
a staged scene because of the stuff that's left behind.
Because all you're left with is she had a flat
tire and somebody came along and kidnapped her, grabbed her
and threw her in their car and took off.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
What lady is going to leave behind her possessions, particularly
things like a phone that can keep you safe. At
least you have the ability at your fingertips to dial
nine one one or hit speed dial and hit somebody
that is you know, that can take care of you.
You're just going to wander off on this roadway, which
(13:08):
kind of painting the picture here. This for those of
you that might not be familiar when you see the
blue Grass Parkway, it's you know, it varies in lane
size periodically, but for the most part, it is a
state road that has four lanes. You know, you got
two on one side going going one direction, you got
two on the other side. It's going to have a median,
you know, and it's going to have shoulders on the
(13:29):
side of the road, and every now and then you'll
come across. It's not like necessarily being on an inner
state per se, but it's a well traveled area. You're
going to catch the attention. You know, when you think
about kidnapping, you think about somebody going off the road.
You remember, recently we've covered this horrible case out out
of Oklahoma where these women were taken down and that's
a that's kind of a that's an out of the
(13:51):
way location, right, We're not talking about that with the
Blue Bluegrass Parkway. We're talking about you know, this thing's
got traffic on it. I mean, there are a movie
back and forth. I think it runs kind of from
the south west up to the northeast, and so it's
a way to get from point to point that you
would see semi trailers on. I mean, you'd see campers
(14:13):
on every day traffic on. It's not like a.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Farm road like in Oklahoma, right, And that's why I'm saying,
if her car was found two days after she's reported missing,
there should have been based on the traffic and based
on who's driving along the Bluegrass Parkway on a regular basis,
somebody would have seen the car. They would have reported it. Hey,
I just saw a Crystal's car. It's not like they
(14:36):
don't know one another, so there's a lot here to
be concerned with. But based on her car is found
with a flat tire and all of her personal belongings
inside two days after she's reported missing, and by the way,
she's still missing. She went missing in twenty fifteen. They
have not found Crystal Rogers.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Joe, I know. And that's a huge chilling piece to
this day, is that after all of the she's nowhere
to be found. And I got to ask a question,
do women like Crystal Rogers just merely vanish, vaporize, disappear
into thin air. I think not. In forensic science, we
(15:31):
do what we do in order to identify collect and
analyze evidence. We generate reports, and we present it to
those interested parties to do with as they wish. When
I'm thinking about a car like this that's found along
a roadway, I'm gonna want to know if the owner
(15:54):
of the primary operator is absent from that vehicle, what
what wound up bringing this vehicle to a halt in
this particular location. Is there damage to the vehicle? I
think that you had mentioned, Dave, that there was a
flat tire. Forensically, I don't want to know about the
origin of that flat tire because you know, you can
catch a nail, and the Lord knows, I've caught things
off of roadways, angle iron, all kinds of stuff that
(16:16):
have you know, split very expensive tires from me created
or has a tire been punctured like on the sidewall
by something that I don't know, ice picked knife, was
it slashed? You know, we've heard stories of people going
through apartment parking lots, you know, where they'll take a
knife in a razor slash people's tires, and so there's
(16:40):
a lot to be gleaned. But if you've got people
that are living together, if you're looking for a suspect,
there is like DNA evidence that's within the cabin of
vehicle that you would expect to find within that vehicle.
Doesn't mean that those people might not be associated with
with their missing, but you would want to find something
that is going to be an outlier, maybe perhaps somebody
(17:02):
that's unexpected unidentified DNA or blood evidence that's contained within here.
And I just don't know to this point that they've
really ever opened up about that day.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
There are a lot of issues surrounding the disappearance of
Crystal Rogers and the murder of Tommy Ballads, her father,
sixteen months later that have to do with a cross
section of police, Sheriff's Department, the Kentucky State Police, and
the FBI. And I don't throw that out there in
a minimalistic way because first things first, Brooks hout He
(17:33):
is the significant other of Crystal Rogers when she goes missing.
They're living together, they have a two and a half
year old toddler, and they have Crystal Rogers for their children.
The Brooks house is the male parent of the household,
and when she goes missing, he doesn't report her missing.
Her mother has to report her missing. Now, Brooks, how
would be the first person you would want to talk to. Hey, man,
(17:55):
tell us what happened? Yep, his brother, Brooks Howe has
an older brother named Nick how. Nick how works as
a police at the time as a police officer for
the Bardstown Police Department. So keep these separate. The Bardstown
Police Department and the Sheriff's Apartment are two separate entities.
(18:17):
They don't always work together. Sheriff's Department serves an entire
county Bardstown Police Bardstown City. The Sheriff's Department is in
charge of this case due to where everything was found,
and so Brooks how is brought in for an interview.
What happened? Brooks tell us about you know, when did
you last see Crystal Rogers because he is the last
(18:39):
person to see her. He is having a conversation with
Sheriff's department investigator and during the interview, brooks how receives
a phone call from his brother, Nick, the police officer
with Bardstown Police Department. Now, Joe and we actually have
(19:01):
the interview. You and I have both watched the interview
with Brooks Hawck and the Sheriff's Department where he lays
out his story which we're going to share with you.
But during the interview, Nick how calls brooks Hawk, and
brooks Howk asks, hey, you mind if I take this,
it's I need to take it, and so he answers
the phone. We only hear brooks Howke's sided the conversation. Yep,
(19:24):
but I'm going to tell you to me. It sounded scripted,
it sounded planned out. It sounded like brooks Hawk was
trying to get his version of events on the record
without ever being challenged. He knows everything's being recorded, and
so there was one thing that he says on this
phone call with his brother Nick. He says, Nick, I
(19:46):
don't think she ran off with another man, and you're
not going to convince me of it. They're not going
to convince me of it, you know. And I'm like,
so he's laying the guilty party always lays out another
option for where the person is, and so is that
out there? But then he says, well, Nick, I'm just
here to help. I just they need my help. I
just want to help them find her. And if you
(20:07):
say I need to leave because they're gonna jam me up,
I'll leave. If you're telling me to leave, I'll leave.
And so he has the excuse, Hey, my brother. The
police officer just told me to end this because you
guys are going to try to frame me. And he leaves,
not before the police tell him, well, you're the main suspect.
You got holes in your story, man Nick out By
the way, the older brother lost his job by doing that. Yeah,
(20:28):
I call.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, it seems staged to me, at least it reminded
me back when Satday Night Live was something that I
watched during the days of John Lovetz. He did an
over the top presentation of being an actor and he
would do his hand up in the air and say
I am an actor, you know, like that and that
(20:49):
kind of it's kind of smacked of that. Oh yeah,
and listen, let me let me kind of interject this
into the conversation.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I thought, you're going to go with Morgan fairchadpe.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, No, not that one. No, going to do that one.
But the idea that he's he's bold enough to have
this conversation. And some people I've heard, actual people that
have criticized the police officer for allowing him to take
that phone call. Let me tell you something. Police are
about harvesting data information and anything that you say, anything
(21:21):
that you say. Anything that you say or do where
it's being taped or recorded, it has potential utility for
their case. So the fact that he allowed him to
have this conversation. If he had said, no, put it away.
We're talking right now, we want to continue this conversation,
(21:45):
we wouldn't have even though it's a one sided conversation
that he was having on the phone, we wouldn't have that.
It wouldn't be documented. And I think for investigators, and
certainly now in the wake of you know, Loath these
many years later, we have the FBI that's involved in
the case. You think those guys have looked and looked
at that video and listened to it.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That video was four days after after her disappearance. By
the way, it was not even a week. It was
four days. Okay, they've got Brooks in there, four days
after she goes missing, and they're getting him his story.
This is the first thing police have to do. You're
a suspect because you're in the relationship with her, but
you got your last person that saw her, you know,
(22:27):
and we need to know where you were, what you
two were doing, and they're gonna get that story. And
this is the story you're held. That's why attorneys say
do not talk to police ever, because whatever you say
is now your story. That's my story, and I'm sticking
to it. Okay, you're Anything you change from here on
out proves you're a liar, right so.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And that's the way, that's the way it would roll
roll on. But you know, looking at this on the
flip side as well, you know we talked about the intimacy,
level of intimacy with this relationship. Let me tell you something,
if this was my precious wife, i'd, you know, first off,
they'd have to keep me chained to the chair because
(23:10):
I'm going to be out beating the bushes looking. I'm
going to be up and down, up and down that
parkway out there, the Bluegrass Parkway, which you and I
have both now sworn off of. I'm going to be
beating the bushes out there, and I'm gonna be looking.
I'm going to assemble friends. I'm going to do everything
that I can and look. Let the hide come with
the hairs, they say. I'm going to be going through
(23:32):
this area as rigorously as I possibly can to try
to track down this person that I've got a child with,
that I've shared a life with. But the problem is, Dave,
is that we don't see this coming through. We don't
see that kind of evangelical zeal here. And for an
investigator that's digging into this, and when you've got somebody
(23:56):
that I'm sure they picked up on pretty quickly, it
seems to be kind of play acting, if you will.
There are a lot more unanswered questions to come. In Alabama.
(24:26):
We're known here and to maybe a lesser degree, Alabama
has quite the reputation though for severe weather. It's a
part and parcels living here, and you know, we deal
with tornadoes and all those sorts of things. But the
old adage that comes to mind for me when you
talk about storms. I know it's a metaphor for life,
(24:48):
but the idea of lightning never striking twice in the
same location, there is some truth to that, I think
both as a metaphor and there are people out there
that have been struck by light in multiple times, but
for the most part, to have two critical events happen
(25:08):
in such close proximity. And I'm talking about Crystal Rogers
and I'm talking about her daddy, Tommy. Dave, what what
are the odds that this that this could actually occur.
And here's that. Here's our favorite roadway again. I've got
to see it again, the Parkway, the Bluegrass Parkway. You know,
these these two events happen in proximity to this roadway.
(25:30):
That's that's why it seems cursed to me almost it is.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
And to get to Tommy Ballard, Crystal Rogers father, sixteen
months after she's missing, now I want to go back
very quickly. Brooks How in a relationship with Crystal Rogers.
They have a two and a half year old toddler. Now,
as part of his story for what he was doing
when they last saw each other, brooks How told police
that he actually he and Crystal Rogers were at his
(25:55):
mom's farm. Okay, at brooks House's mom and at midnight,
we're talking in the middle of the night, that's what
he told. They were just out walking around. Now the
officer is at the toddler's two and a half years old.
Who goes out to a farm in the middle of
the night with a two and a half year old
(26:16):
nobody because they can't walk really without you know, you
can't see there's just a lot wrong with his story.
But you have to look at his story and figure
out what's he trying to spend. Is he trying to
set himself up as being at the farm property in
the middle of the night in case somebody saw, because
(26:37):
that's what it sounds like now. Early on, they brought
out tracker dogs to these different sites that Brooks Houck
has mentioned, including the farm, because they wanted to track
Crystal Rogers. You know, did they pick Crystal up out
at the farm? Well? They did. These dogs tracked Crystal
Rogers out at brooks House's mom's farm without any trouble
(27:00):
at all. But you know what they didn't do. The
dogs went were the same dogs that tracked Crystal Rogers'
body out at the farm. They were also brought to
her car on Bluegrass Parkway to see did she get
out of that car and walk? Those same dogs malfunctioned
and couldn't pick up a scent. So they can pick
(27:20):
her scent up at the farm, but they can't pick
her scent up at her car on the Bluegrass Parkway.
What does that tell you? Okay, so here we go.
We know she was at the park because we know
that's what they were told. We also know that Nick
how tells his brother Brooks, get out of there, don't
talk to the Sheriff's department. So now Nick, how wait,
(27:44):
why are you telling your brother to not do this?
This is an unwritten rule. You don't do this, man.
So now Nick Hawk is in trouble with his boss.
He's also now a suspect because why is he doing
this with his brother? So here we go. They can't
find Crystal Rogers anywhere. They've got signs they keep putting up,
and you know what, somebody goes around town and takes
these signs down. Joe, Crystal Rodgers is missing. They have
(28:06):
this huge bourbon festival. Bartstown is like the Bourbon capital
of the world, right Bartstown, Kentucky for crying out loud,
and they have thousands of people that come into Bartstown
and the people they were really trying to find Crystal Rogers.
Help us find she's missing. This mother of five, thirty
five years old is missing. Police help, and they're putting
signs everywhere so that everybody, the thousands of people that
come to the festival will be able to help us
(28:28):
find Crystal. But you know what, somebody, somebody is taking
the flyers down, taking the signs down. Right before all
these thousands of people to get to they're taking them down.
Who would do that? What kind of monster takes those down?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Who could be that bold? Or who could be who
could be that emboldened in order to do this? And
the fact that you know, she seems literally to vanish
into thin air m hm. I think relative to the car,
did the dogs actually, as you had said, function out
there had to have or or or was the car
(29:06):
driven out there without her presence? And they've worked before?
So what has happened in between those times where they
don't you know, they don't get a hit that they're
and it's not like you're talking about a single animal,
and so what are what are yeah? What are the odds?
Now when you begin to think about this, because.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
She'd be tied and she was there, you would expect
that she would have gotten out of the car to
at least look, hey, what's going on? You know, and
so you would have that they didn't pick up anything, Joe, nothing,
the same dogs picked up at the house.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
It's it's fascinating when you think about that relative to
what's and she's not unfamiliar with this area, right, Okay,
this is Kith and Kent. You know she's grown up here,
She's got people here. You know that she's going to
know where to go or you know, know how to
get access to She has a phone.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Her cell phone is found in the car for crying
out loud. You mentioned it earlier. She could have called
nine to one one if anything, you know. But I
want to get to something very quickly because Nick How
brooks Howk's older brother, he's a police officer, Bardstown Police.
He tells his brother to leave that don't talk to
the cop anymore. So after that, his boss brings him in.
They read in the riot egg. By the way, Nick
(30:22):
How gets fired three or four months later. We can't
tolerate this because they set him up for a polygraph.
They bring in brooks How. Nick How. We're gonna get
you guys on a polygraph. You're telling the truth, Okay,
no worries. So Nick How comes in and he fails
miserably on this polygraph test and they basically call him out.
You know, we know you know more than what you're
(30:43):
telling us, And he has told nick How is told
we use luminol on the trunk of your squad car
and it lit up like chernobyl. That's the phrase they
used it lit up like Chernobyl. So I don't know
if they were saying that and true or if they
were saying it to trip him up. I don't know,
but we do know this. Crystal Rogers still hasn't been
(31:06):
found in sixteen months after she goes missing. Her dad.
Tommy Ballard, he's with his It's early in the morning.
He's with his twelve year old son, grandson rather, and
they're gonna go hunting. A pretty common occurrence for those
who like the outdoors that live around Bartstown, Kentucky. So
Tommy Ballard has his hunting rifle and his twelve year
(31:28):
old grandson and they're on their own property, right. Yeah,
And somehow, in the early morning hours, if I'm not mistaken,
it was around six am. Yes, and somehow, someway, Tommy
Ballard is shot in the chest from a rifle that
(31:52):
can't be seen from anywhere.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yep. Let me hang on, let me ask you something
real quick. First, blush, here, what does that tell you
about the individual that fired this weapon? And yeah, and
and it also goes to familiarity. Oh buddy, yeah, you
know so that you have to know points of access.
Here's here's another bit here. That's kind of it is
(32:17):
it truly is. And you have to understand the utility
of those of those perspectives. When we're working a shooting
scene from a reconstruction standpoint, we consider if say you've
got uh, Tommy who has been shot, you're going to
pull You're going to pull these kind of lines of
(32:39):
sight that like a wagon wheel, the spokes of a
wagon wheel kind of radiate out from his body. Okay,
but you have to consider, and this is something that
we assess at autopsy, kind of the ankle from which
this round struck him. That's where the grandson's testimony, our statement.
Let's put it to you that way, to you know,
(33:00):
put it out there that way. What position were you
and grandad in when you were walking and he fell,
Because you might actually depend upon the distance. He may
have seen him fall first before he heard the report
of the weapon, or he may have heard the report
of the weapon. He's going to turn his head and
then witness his grandpa maybe gasp, grasp his chest or
(33:23):
just fall over graveyard dead right there on the spot.
So it you know, one of the things that you
try to assess it a scene, and once you can
establish that point of the directionality of the bullet. That's
one of the things that we always try to do.
You know, you hear about our assessments at autopsy where
we talk about we'll say, well, it's from front to rear,
(33:44):
around travels from front to rear, it goes from high
to low, which means maybe you're in a position of
dominance and firing down on a target, or from below
to above. Maybe it lists from right to left of
the decedent. It originated to his right side, and we
can actually look at these injuries and give you an idea.
But here's the problem with this particular injury that this
(34:07):
man has sustained, Dave, is that the range is indeterminate
because it's not like somebody walked up to him and
fired this round into his chest where we're going to
have soot deposition and all of those things that we'd
look for relative to close close gunfire. This is fired
at a distance, So the only thing that you're really
going to have is this kind of a braided area
(34:30):
around the round, and it you know where this originates from,
you'll see it. It's kind of red irritated, a little
area that's around the actual injury itself, and it's because
a bullet is spinning through the air and it literally
twists the skin like that. That's all you see on
these indeterminate.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Actually see that in the skin.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, yeah, you can. And microscopically you can pick up
on you take Yeah, you can pick up and take
sections of it. And it's demonstrated pretty well. But you
can see it with I'll tell you you can see
it with a hand len it's a magnifying glass. You
can actually take it and see it like that once
the wound is cleaned of blood and that sort of thing.
But the only thing that it really tells you is
(35:11):
that it's from an indeterminate distance once you get away,
you know, beyond Some people have a variety of different
parameters they put on it. You think about thirty six inches,
it's generally about the maximum distance. So anything within thirty
six inches you might have shot at getting soot depositions.
So out beyond about thirty six inches, brother, you can't
(35:34):
get nothing. And so it's not going to tell you
how the range of fire. But we know that no
one was approximating him with this weapon, like some mystery
person appeared in the woods as they're walking down this
path and fired them round. Here's another thing too, that's
interesting about this is that Dave, you know we were
(35:57):
talking about we're talking about the roosters are just wake up?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
All right?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
This is early early in the day. How is a
killer going to know about the timetable involved when you
exit out of your home with your grandson. You talk
about a total disregard. This might this ranks right up
there with one of the more callous things that we've covered,
because you're literally murdering this gentleman in front of his
(36:24):
twelve year old grandson, just sinking. Let that sink in
for a second. Is this is this something that's going
to leave his mind? You remember how I was talking
about early on, I was talking about memories that I
had walking through the woods of my papa. I still
remember it to this day. My grandfather was not murdered.
You know this, This is a time that is marked
in this child's mind forever and ever. Amen, you know,
(36:45):
moving forward, and so, who's familiar enough with the schedule
that Tommy would have had, And going back to Crystal,
who's familiar enough with her schedule to get her off
the road, if you will? And out of the regular
rhythm rhythm. You're talking about a lady that has children,
(37:06):
five kids. Yeah, she has a very regimented world. This
idea that are parents, grandparents, You've got brothers and sisters.
You know that if you're the person in charge, baby,
you got to keep a time tight timetable. And the
more elements children that you have in the picture, the
tighter your time is. You don't have time for foolishness.
(37:29):
So you have to be able to understand who in
her world, who in Tommy's world would have had enough
of an awareness of what their daily routine was. And
back to Tommy, I know I'm kind of running back
over the same pass here, but there's so much to
unpacked with this case. When you think about time alone,
who in the world would have known that on that
(37:50):
particular day, at that particular time, he would have exited
from his house with his grandson and begin to trek
off into the woods to.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Hunt from that location.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
By the way, from that specific location, who would have
known it?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And by the way that specific location but right up
against the Bluegrass.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Parkway access an opportunity and showing up with the tools,
showing up with the tools to do the job being
familiar with the terrain. Is there a place you could
go and hide? Well, yeah, I mean, oh you look,
do me a favor. Don't believe what I'm saying. Next
time you're riding down the road and you're on a
four lane highway a state highway, look on either side.
Look at the brush line that's there. You can't see
(38:30):
what's on the other side. Now, you might come across
a field every now and then where it's cleared out,
but for the most part you're going to see pine trees.
You might see an occasual oak tree, but you're going
to see low level brush, which if you wanted to
create a hide, you know, if you put it in
the terms of and let's just face it, this is
an assassination. I think where that's planned, you have an
(38:54):
opportunity to do it. This isn't like some random round now,
is it Dave that just traveled out of nowhere and
happen to strike this man in the chest.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And it happened on November nineteenth, So we're talking about
the early morning hours of a cold November morning in Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, and this is right right at the time of year,
at least down here in south where most deer season,
white tail season kicks off. You know, so you're in
that area. Well, he's going out. I guess he's going
to try to bag a deer with his grandson. That's
probably what they're going to try to do. And they're
out there, they're in motion. This is property that he knows.
(39:29):
I don't know. Maybe he's got salt blocks out on
his property. Maybe he has a specific area where, you know,
deer going to walk into his field of view and
he'll be able to take a deer and his grandson
will be able to witness it. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
When you look at this, it says Ballard was preparing
for a hunting trip with his twelve year old grandson
on family property next to the Bluegrass Parkway in Bardstown, Kentucky.
An unknown subject fired one shot and hit Ballard in
the chest and instantly killed him. Yeah, the gun that
(40:01):
the rifle they believe that was used and the murder
of Tommy Ballard was once owned by Nick Howck holy Smokes,
the older brother of Brooks how This story continues. These
are Brooks Howk has been arrested and charged in the
murder of Crystal Rogers even though they haven't found her body. Now, Joe,
I have a question, how do you do that? What
(40:21):
do they do with you? Do you come into play
where the police sit down and say, okay, Professor Morgan,
we haven't found the body, but here's what we do have.
Can you is there any way you believe this person
might still be alive? What do we do here? And
we have the body of Tommy Ballard, we do not
have the body of Crystal Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, and unfortunately, well, I'll say unfortunately this is from
a practicality standpoint, there's nothing really that the medical examiner
can do in that circumstance if you don't have like
we play into our world, plays into a missing individual
where they are declared dead. If say, and here's the
(41:01):
term that people people get frustrated with it sometimes. But
when you have a copious amount of blood at a scene,
one of the things that we'll ask the medical examiner
is this much blood that we're seeing at the scene,
is this compatible with life? And you might look at
it and there's really if you have a big blood stain,
there's no way to actually calculate the volume. Okay, on
(41:24):
carpet and anywhere else we can speak to that and say, yeah, this,
this volume of blood might not be compatible with life today.
With Crystal, We're not talking about a volume of blood.
We're talking about a woman that has just vanished. And
how do people vanish? I think one of the most
interesting things about about Crystal's disappearance and continuing absence. You
(41:52):
know she has Yeah, as you'd mentioned rightly, that she's
been declared dead at this point in time. This is
a homicide. It's been he's been charged with home side
and you do not you do not charge with somebody
with homicide if you do not believe that subject to
in fact be debt. So one of the interesting elements
is how do you make a body disappear? Do you
(42:15):
have access to heavy equipment? Do you have access to, say,
for instance, I don't know tools to create cement with.
Do you have access to the ability to render down
a body? And when I say that, I'm talking about dismemberment,
I'm talking about fire. Do you have the willpower and
(42:39):
the tools and the ability to do that? And still,
since we're talking twenty fifteen, Dave, as of this recording
right now, it's twenty twenty four, A lot of water's
passing inder the bridge. There's been a lot of people
looking for There are rewards out there, their rewards for
(43:04):
both Tommy and for Crystal. And to this point, we
don't know really any more than we have when she
went missing. But I'll tell you this, the police are
still investigating and hopefully at some point in time we're
going to see more evidence come to light. We'll be
(43:25):
keeping an eye on this case moving forward. I can
guarantee you that because this is one of the biggest
mysteries that I have covered some time, and we're going
to travel down the Bluegrass Parkway one more time. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Bags
Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Look y'all, I know
I talked about my childhood periodically on Body Bags, and
everybody has good and bad in their life. Everybody doesn't
matter who you are, nobody's immune to it. But in
(00:31):
my childhood, the good times stand out to me more
so than the bad. And I could complain about the
bad if I wanted to, but at this point in
my life, I like to think about the good. And
one of the really cool things about my childhood is
that I spent a lot of time with my paternal grandparents,
(00:51):
and my grandfather, who I call Papau Morgan. I love
that man. He's a big man, real big men. He
still raised mules, if you can imagine that for people
that would There were actually a group of guys that
would buy mules from him that wanted them to pull wagons.
(01:12):
And there was actually one old man that still preferred
a mule drawn plow over a tractor. But when I
had free time with my pipe all morning, one of
the things that he would take me to do too,
actually was to fish for bluegill that's brim with cane pole.
(01:32):
And number two was to go hunting. Now, think about
this is that in my family, everything my family did
was for subsistence. They had a huge garden, and it's
not like it was a hobby. They had to have
a garden and it was massive, and they worked in
it all the time. When they went hunting, it wasn't
(01:54):
like it was a pleasure trip. My grandfather would probably
look back and laugh at these guys pay thousands and
thousands of dollars to go out and hunt from a helicopter.
He did it so that he could put food on
the table. Now one of his primary things that he
would hunt for. And I know many of you guys
will recoil over this, will squirrel. My grandmother could take
(02:18):
a squirrel and she would make squirrel and rice and
it was one of the best tasting things in the world. Now,
as I've gotten older, squirrel is not necessarily in my
repertoire anymore as it were. But I remember going out
in those piny woods in North Louisiana with my papa
walking along five six seven years old, and no, he
(02:40):
didn't give me a gun. I just walked along with him,
and his eyes were always toward the sky, looking at
the tops of those trees and he'd buy a squirrel
every single time, and that was pure joy to me,
just being with him, learning from him, covering my ears
from sound of that twelve gage shot gun.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Of going on.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
But today we're going to talk about a case that
involves two deaths. One you're very familiar with, Crystal Rogers,
and the other maybe not so much, but just as
important in this case is Crystal rogers daddy, who went
(03:22):
by the name Tommy Tommy Ballard. He was actually shot
and killed while walking through the woods with his twelve
year old grandson. And it's for that reason I really
wanted to talk about this case today. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is Body Bags. The older I get, Dave,
(03:46):
the more I would desire to have a time machine.
I wish I could go back in time and see
my Papa, my granny again. I wish I could to
sit at my granny's kitchen table. And they have a
very very tiny house. Their kitchen table was their dining
room as well. We would have Christmas meals and Thanksgiving
(04:10):
meals in the same room where they were being prepared,
you know. But it was a it was a joyful scene.
It was always warm and everybody's sit around the table
and we talked about things. I remember sitting next to
my granddaddy and he would actually the way he would complain.
He would complain about coffee because he liked it strong.
My granny's name was Pearl. He'd be sitting there and
(04:32):
I think she did this on purpose. He's a big man.
She'd make him drink out of these little, tiny, tiny
coffee cups with a saucer, and if if the coffee
wasn't strong enough, he'd say, Earl, you run out of coffee,
Oh my goodness. And so you know, that was that
was kind of his way. And it had to have
chickry in it by you know, in Louisiana. Chickry is
(04:55):
a thing that developed back in you know, I think
probably pre Civil War. But they would, you know, Southerners
shall make coffee out of anything, and it had that.
It's horrible taste to me. I don't like it. I
know some of you guys will take a fist of
that too, probably, but I just don't like chick or coffee.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Whenever I hear the name Pearl used as a Southern
woman's name, the Beverly Hillbillies and Lester Flatt and Earl Scrugs.
You know, Earl Pearl. Don't give your love to Earl.
I just remember that. But Bartstown, Kentucky, if you look
it up, you're gonna find out there is a number
of stories I bought. Bardstown, beautiful town in Kentucky. The
(05:32):
sad part is the most of the stories that you
read are going to be of unsolved murders. Oh, not
unsolved deaths. We're talking unsolved murders in this case where
right off the top mentioning Crystal Rogers and her father,
Tommy Ballard. Now, Crystal Rogers body has never been found.
Tommy Ballard died sixteen months after Crystal went missing, and
(05:56):
the only thing we know for sure is that he
didn't kill himself because his gun had not been fired.
That was something that was bandied about at first. Yeah,
in the cases we're talking about today, the FBI had
to be called in. And oftentimes that is the case
when you might have a conflict internally, the FBI has
(06:17):
to be invited in. They don't just come in and
take over, right, And we had in Bardstown, Kentucky. You
have Bartstown Police Department, and you have the Sheriff's Department.
In this case, Crystal Rogers and Brooks Houck had a
two and a half year old toddler that they biologically
were the parents, and Crystal Rogers had four other children
and they were living together under the same roof as
(06:40):
husband and wife Brooks Howe and Crystal Rogers. Now Crystal
Rogers went missing. Her car was found on the side
of the road two days after she was reported missing.
And we're talking about in twenty fifteen, around the fourth
of July holiday twenty fifteen, when Crystal Rogers went missing,
it wasn't Brooks how that reported his partner, live in partner,
(07:01):
they cohabitated. That's what boggles my mind. He had a
report her missing, Joe. She was reported missing by her mother.
Because when Brooks house is in Bardstown and he sees
Crystal Rogers mother and she said, hey, Brooks, I hadn't
talked to I hadn't talked to Crystal. Where is she?
He's I don't know, I hadn't seen her. What don't
y'all live together? What do you mean you haven't seen her?
(07:22):
And Brooks just goes on about as mary Way like
nothing's up. Crystal Rogers mother goes, well, I'm reporting her missing,
and she goes right to the police station. Right then,
she knows something is up because this is not how
she has a relationship with her daughter. They talk every day,
they see each other all the time. I mean this
was a very small town. They knew one another, okay
in terms of friends and family, and not seeing somebody,
(07:44):
not talking to somebody is an unusual occurrence, and saying
I don't know is not a good answer.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, you're you're right. And it's that familial circle you
know that you and I talk about so often, Dave.
If there's anything that disrupts that, and a lot of
it depends upon the other people within that circle and
how acutely aware they are of the situation that's going
on with you know, the dynamics of a couple and
that sort of thing. Is there anything that that kind
(08:12):
of stinks? You know, that just doesn't line up? And look, man,
when when you begin to think about how first off,
she had not had contact with her mother, right, and
you've got the person in her life that okay, let's
face it is the most intimate relationship that you.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Probably have a year old child together.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Oh boy. Yeah, And they're domicile together. Yeah, you know,
to top things off, you you had mentioned something and
this roadway is going to come up a couple of times.
And remind me, Dave, I'm ever heading up to Kentucky, which,
by the way, I love that state is one of
the most beautiful places. The farms and oh my gosh,
it's it's striking when you're up there. But if I'm
(08:55):
going up there, remind me to stay off the Bluegrass Parkway.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
No, especially around Bardstown. Get off a walk, get a mutle,
do not drive on that highway.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I know it's like you know, that keeps coming up.
And you know, when you have a person that is
missing and you have their vehicle found along the roadway.
First off, when you walk up to the vehicle, police
officers going to check and see, well, check one box,
is anybody in it? And if it's absent any sign
(09:28):
of life or maybe somebody that's sleeping or maybe something
really bad. You're thinking maybe they're deceased and they're laying
inside the visible space, which, by the way, is a
principle within law when if a police officer can walk
up and actually evidence something inside of a vehicle, that's
(09:48):
immediately cause for them to want to explore further. And
sometimes if somebody's in danger, they don't necessarily have to
have a warrant at that moment time because it's the
idea that it's an emergent situation. I actually worked a
case and you might find this interesting of a fellow
that was we found dead on the highway, dumped in
(10:08):
the middle of I two eighty five in Atlanta on
a ramp, and this guy had been brutalized. He was
shot multiple times, including in the head. It turns out
that this fellow was at the Final Four in Atlanta.
He had tickets to the ball games games. He got
robbed by two guys. They took his car and they
(10:31):
were later caught in Ohio for speeding or breaking center line.
And guess what the cop wound up seeing when he
walked up to the car and pulled him over. It's
like that scene from pulp fiction where Marvin gets shot
in the head and they said, man, what do you shoot?
Why do you shoot? Marvin? And the whole back of
the interior that car is an Ohio State trooper. I'll
never forget. This was just blasted with blood deposition.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Oh he been killed in the car.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
In Atlanta, and they had driven his car to Ohio. Man,
so you know when you when you're taking care of
that man, the wolf's on it. Huh. So when you
you get up, you know, a police officer walks up
to a vehicle. Now, obviously that's a that's a stop
when you find a car abandoned on the side of
the road. And how many times do you ride down
(11:17):
the road, Dave and you might see a car sitting
on side of the road and it's been there for
a while, and you're thinking, has anybody ever stopped to
take a look at that car? What's going on with that?
And why is it still here? Why have the authority
has not had it removed because it's obviously a hazard.
It's dangerous, you know, to have these things on the
shoulder of the road. But they're going to check inside
of it and they're going to look for any evidence. Now,
(11:38):
what stood out to you relative to when they they
got to her car and and they began to inspect it.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The fact that it was found after she's reported missing. Okay,
Bluegrass Parkway is a busy thoroughfare. It would have been noticed.
I would have thought before this okay if it had
been there, So that's number one. Number two, the car
is found with a flat tire by Maril Mark or
(12:06):
fourteen on the Bluegrass Parkway. The keys are still in
the ignition, and her purse and cell phone are inside.
If the keys are in the ignition, her purse and
cell phone are inside the car, and there's a flat tire.
If you assume that she had a flat tire and
pulled over and then had to leave to go get help,
(12:27):
she would have left with her keys, her purse, her
cell phone, just normal stuff that we would grab to leave.
So immediately, you know, it appears to me to be
a staged scene because of the stuff that's left behind.
Because all you're left with is she had a flat
tire and somebody came along and kidnapped her, grabbed her
and threw her in their car and took off.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
What lady is going to leave behind her possessions, particularly
things like a phone that can keep you safe. At
least you have the ability at your fingertips to dial
nine one one or hit speed dial and hit somebody
that is you know, that can take care of you.
You're just going to wander off on this roadway, which
(13:08):
kind of painting the picture here. This for those of
you that might not be familiar when you see the
blue Grass Parkway, it's you know, it varies in lane
size periodically, but for the most part, it is a
state road that has four lanes. You know, you got
two on one side going going one direction, you got
two on the other side. It's going to have a median,
you know, and it's going to have shoulders on the
(13:29):
side of the road, and every now and then you'll
come across. It's not like necessarily being on an inner
state per se, but it's a well traveled area. You're
going to catch the attention. You know, when you think
about kidnapping, you think about somebody going off the road.
You remember, recently we've covered this horrible case out out
of Oklahoma where these women were taken down and that's
a that's kind of a that's an out of the
(13:51):
way location, right, We're not talking about that with the
Blue Bluegrass Parkway. We're talking about you know, this thing's
got traffic on it. I mean, there are a movie
back and forth. I think it runs kind of from
the south west up to the northeast, and so it's
a way to get from point to point that you
would see semi trailers on. I mean, you'd see campers
(14:13):
on every day traffic on. It's not like a.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Farm road like in Oklahoma, right, And that's why I'm saying,
if her car was found two days after she's reported missing,
there should have been based on the traffic and based
on who's driving along the Bluegrass Parkway on a regular basis,
somebody would have seen the car. They would have reported it. Hey,
I just saw a Crystal's car. It's not like they
(14:36):
don't know one another, so there's a lot here to
be concerned with. But based on her car is found
with a flat tire and all of her personal belongings
inside two days after she's reported missing, and by the way,
she's still missing. She went missing in twenty fifteen. They
have not found Crystal Rogers.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Joe, I know. And that's a huge chilling piece to
this day, is that after all of the she's nowhere
to be found. And I got to ask a question,
do women like Crystal Rogers just merely vanish, vaporize, disappear
into thin air. I think not. In forensic science, we
(15:31):
do what we do in order to identify collect and
analyze evidence. We generate reports, and we present it to
those interested parties to do with as they wish. When
I'm thinking about a car like this that's found along
a roadway, I'm gonna want to know if the owner
(15:54):
of the primary operator is absent from that vehicle, what
what wound up bringing this vehicle to a halt in
this particular location. Is there damage to the vehicle? I
think that you had mentioned, Dave, that there was a
flat tire. Forensically, I don't want to know about the
origin of that flat tire because you know, you can
catch a nail, and the Lord knows, I've caught things
off of roadways, angle iron, all kinds of stuff that
(16:16):
have you know, split very expensive tires from me created
or has a tire been punctured like on the sidewall
by something that I don't know, ice picked knife, was
it slashed? You know, we've heard stories of people going
through apartment parking lots, you know, where they'll take a
knife in a razor slash people's tires, and so there's
(16:40):
a lot to be gleaned. But if you've got people
that are living together, if you're looking for a suspect,
there is like DNA evidence that's within the cabin of
vehicle that you would expect to find within that vehicle.
Doesn't mean that those people might not be associated with
with their missing, but you would want to find something
that is going to be an outlier, maybe perhaps somebody
(17:02):
that's unexpected unidentified DNA or blood evidence that's contained within here.
And I just don't know to this point that they've
really ever opened up about that day.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
There are a lot of issues surrounding the disappearance of
Crystal Rogers and the murder of Tommy Ballads, her father,
sixteen months later that have to do with a cross
section of police, Sheriff's Department, the Kentucky State Police, and
the FBI. And I don't throw that out there in
a minimalistic way because first things first, Brooks hout He
(17:33):
is the significant other of Crystal Rogers when she goes missing.
They're living together, they have a two and a half
year old toddler, and they have Crystal Rogers for their children.
The Brooks house is the male parent of the household,
and when she goes missing, he doesn't report her missing.
Her mother has to report her missing. Now, Brooks, how
would be the first person you would want to talk to. Hey, man,
(17:55):
tell us what happened? Yep, his brother, Brooks Howe has
an older brother named Nick how. Nick how works as
a police at the time as a police officer for
the Bardstown Police Department. So keep these separate. The Bardstown
Police Department and the Sheriff's Apartment are two separate entities.
(18:17):
They don't always work together. Sheriff's Department serves an entire
county Bardstown Police Bardstown City. The Sheriff's Department is in
charge of this case due to where everything was found,
and so Brooks how is brought in for an interview.
What happened? Brooks tell us about you know, when did
you last see Crystal Rogers because he is the last
(18:39):
person to see her. He is having a conversation with
Sheriff's department investigator and during the interview, brooks how receives
a phone call from his brother, Nick, the police officer
with Bardstown Police Department. Now, Joe and we actually have
(19:01):
the interview. You and I have both watched the interview
with Brooks Hawck and the Sheriff's Department where he lays
out his story which we're going to share with you.
But during the interview, Nick how calls brooks Hawk, and
brooks Howk asks, hey, you mind if I take this,
it's I need to take it, and so he answers
the phone. We only hear brooks Howke's sided the conversation. Yep,
(19:24):
but I'm going to tell you to me. It sounded scripted,
it sounded planned out. It sounded like brooks Hawk was
trying to get his version of events on the record
without ever being challenged. He knows everything's being recorded, and
so there was one thing that he says on this
phone call with his brother Nick. He says, Nick, I
(19:46):
don't think she ran off with another man, and you're
not going to convince me of it. They're not going
to convince me of it, you know. And I'm like,
so he's laying the guilty party always lays out another
option for where the person is, and so is that
out there? But then he says, well, Nick, I'm just
here to help. I just they need my help. I
just want to help them find her. And if you
(20:07):
say I need to leave because they're gonna jam me up,
I'll leave. If you're telling me to leave, I'll leave.
And so he has the excuse, Hey, my brother. The
police officer just told me to end this because you
guys are going to try to frame me. And he leaves,
not before the police tell him, well, you're the main suspect.
You got holes in your story, man Nick out By
the way, the older brother lost his job by doing that. Yeah,
(20:28):
I call.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, it seems staged to me, at least it reminded
me back when Satday Night Live was something that I
watched during the days of John Lovetz. He did an
over the top presentation of being an actor and he
would do his hand up in the air and say
I am an actor, you know, like that and that
(20:49):
kind of it's kind of smacked of that. Oh yeah,
and listen, let me let me kind of interject this
into the conversation.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I thought, you're going to go with Morgan fairchadpe.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
No, No, not that one. No, going to do that one.
But the idea that he's he's bold enough to have
this conversation. And some people I've heard, actual people that
have criticized the police officer for allowing him to take
that phone call. Let me tell you something. Police are
about harvesting data information and anything that you say, anything
(21:21):
that you say. Anything that you say or do where
it's being taped or recorded, it has potential utility for
their case. So the fact that he allowed him to
have this conversation. If he had said, no, put it away.
We're talking right now, we want to continue this conversation,
(21:45):
we wouldn't have even though it's a one sided conversation
that he was having on the phone, we wouldn't have that.
It wouldn't be documented. And I think for investigators, and
certainly now in the wake of you know, Loath these
many years later, we have the FBI that's involved in
the case. You think those guys have looked and looked
at that video and listened to it.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That video was four days after after her disappearance. By
the way, it was not even a week. It was
four days. Okay, they've got Brooks in there, four days
after she goes missing, and they're getting him his story.
This is the first thing police have to do. You're
a suspect because you're in the relationship with her, but
you got your last person that saw her, you know,
(22:27):
and we need to know where you were, what you
two were doing, and they're gonna get that story. And
this is the story you're held. That's why attorneys say
do not talk to police ever, because whatever you say
is now your story. That's my story, and I'm sticking
to it. Okay, you're Anything you change from here on
out proves you're a liar, right so.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And that's the way, that's the way it would roll
roll on. But you know, looking at this on the
flip side as well, you know we talked about the intimacy,
level of intimacy with this relationship. Let me tell you something,
if this was my precious wife, i'd, you know, first off,
they'd have to keep me chained to the chair because
(23:10):
I'm going to be out beating the bushes looking. I'm
going to be up and down, up and down that
parkway out there, the Bluegrass Parkway, which you and I
have both now sworn off of. I'm going to be
beating the bushes out there, and I'm gonna be looking.
I'm going to assemble friends. I'm going to do everything
that I can and look. Let the hide come with
the hairs, they say. I'm going to be going through
(23:32):
this area as rigorously as I possibly can to try
to track down this person that I've got a child with,
that I've shared a life with. But the problem is, Dave,
is that we don't see this coming through. We don't
see that kind of evangelical zeal here. And for an
investigator that's digging into this, and when you've got somebody
(23:56):
that I'm sure they picked up on pretty quickly, it
seems to be kind of play acting, if you will.
There are a lot more unanswered questions to come. In Alabama.
(24:26):
We're known here and to maybe a lesser degree, Alabama
has quite the reputation though for severe weather. It's a
part and parcels living here, and you know, we deal
with tornadoes and all those sorts of things. But the
old adage that comes to mind for me when you
talk about storms. I know it's a metaphor for life,
(24:48):
but the idea of lightning never striking twice in the
same location, there is some truth to that, I think
both as a metaphor and there are people out there
that have been struck by light in multiple times, but
for the most part, to have two critical events happen
(25:08):
in such close proximity. And I'm talking about Crystal Rogers
and I'm talking about her daddy, Tommy. Dave, what what
are the odds that this that this could actually occur.
And here's that. Here's our favorite roadway again. I've got
to see it again, the Parkway, the Bluegrass Parkway. You know,
these these two events happen in proximity to this roadway.
(25:30):
That's that's why it seems cursed to me almost it is.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
And to get to Tommy Ballard, Crystal Rogers father, sixteen
months after she's missing, now I want to go back
very quickly. Brooks How in a relationship with Crystal Rogers.
They have a two and a half year old toddler. Now,
as part of his story for what he was doing
when they last saw each other, brooks How told police
that he actually he and Crystal Rogers were at his
(25:55):
mom's farm. Okay, at brooks House's mom and at midnight,
we're talking in the middle of the night, that's what
he told. They were just out walking around. Now the
officer is at the toddler's two and a half years old.
Who goes out to a farm in the middle of
the night with a two and a half year old
(26:16):
nobody because they can't walk really without you know, you
can't see there's just a lot wrong with his story.
But you have to look at his story and figure
out what's he trying to spend. Is he trying to
set himself up as being at the farm property in
the middle of the night in case somebody saw, because
(26:37):
that's what it sounds like now. Early on, they brought
out tracker dogs to these different sites that Brooks Houck
has mentioned, including the farm, because they wanted to track
Crystal Rogers. You know, did they pick Crystal up out
at the farm? Well? They did. These dogs tracked Crystal
Rogers out at brooks House's mom's farm without any trouble
(27:00):
at all. But you know what they didn't do. The
dogs went were the same dogs that tracked Crystal Rogers'
body out at the farm. They were also brought to
her car on Bluegrass Parkway to see did she get
out of that car and walk? Those same dogs malfunctioned
and couldn't pick up a scent. So they can pick
(27:20):
her scent up at the farm, but they can't pick
her scent up at her car on the Bluegrass Parkway.
What does that tell you? Okay, so here we go.
We know she was at the park because we know
that's what they were told. We also know that Nick
how tells his brother Brooks, get out of there, don't
talk to the Sheriff's department. So now Nick, how wait,
(27:44):
why are you telling your brother to not do this?
This is an unwritten rule. You don't do this, man.
So now Nick Hawk is in trouble with his boss.
He's also now a suspect because why is he doing
this with his brother? So here we go. They can't
find Crystal Rogers anywhere. They've got signs they keep putting up,
and you know what, somebody goes around town and takes
these signs down. Joe, Crystal Rodgers is missing. They have
(28:06):
this huge bourbon festival. Bartstown is like the Bourbon capital
of the world, right Bartstown, Kentucky for crying out loud,
and they have thousands of people that come into Bartstown
and the people they were really trying to find Crystal Rogers.
Help us find she's missing. This mother of five, thirty
five years old is missing. Police help, and they're putting
signs everywhere so that everybody, the thousands of people that
come to the festival will be able to help us
(28:28):
find Crystal. But you know what, somebody, somebody is taking
the flyers down, taking the signs down. Right before all
these thousands of people to get to they're taking them down.
Who would do that? What kind of monster takes those down?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Who could be that bold? Or who could be who
could be that emboldened in order to do this? And
the fact that you know, she seems literally to vanish
into thin air m hm. I think relative to the car,
did the dogs actually, as you had said, function out
there had to have or or or was the car
(29:06):
driven out there without her presence? And they've worked before?
So what has happened in between those times where they
don't you know, they don't get a hit that they're
and it's not like you're talking about a single animal,
and so what are what are yeah? What are the odds?
Now when you begin to think about this, because.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
She'd be tied and she was there, you would expect
that she would have gotten out of the car to
at least look, hey, what's going on? You know, and
so you would have that they didn't pick up anything, Joe, nothing,
the same dogs picked up at the house.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
It's it's fascinating when you think about that relative to
what's and she's not unfamiliar with this area, right, Okay,
this is Kith and Kent. You know she's grown up here,
She's got people here. You know that she's going to
know where to go or you know, know how to
get access to She has a phone.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Her cell phone is found in the car for crying
out loud. You mentioned it earlier. She could have called
nine to one one if anything, you know. But I
want to get to something very quickly because Nick How
brooks Howk's older brother, he's a police officer, Bardstown Police.
He tells his brother to leave that don't talk to
the cop anymore. So after that, his boss brings him in.
They read in the riot egg. By the way, Nick
(30:22):
How gets fired three or four months later. We can't
tolerate this because they set him up for a polygraph.
They bring in brooks How. Nick How. We're gonna get
you guys on a polygraph. You're telling the truth, Okay,
no worries. So Nick How comes in and he fails
miserably on this polygraph test and they basically call him out.
You know, we know you know more than what you're
(30:43):
telling us, And he has told nick How is told
we use luminol on the trunk of your squad car
and it lit up like chernobyl. That's the phrase they
used it lit up like Chernobyl. So I don't know
if they were saying that and true or if they
were saying it to trip him up. I don't know,
but we do know this. Crystal Rogers still hasn't been
(31:06):
found in sixteen months after she goes missing. Her dad.
Tommy Ballard, he's with his It's early in the morning.
He's with his twelve year old son, grandson rather, and
they're gonna go hunting. A pretty common occurrence for those
who like the outdoors that live around Bartstown, Kentucky. So
Tommy Ballard has his hunting rifle and his twelve year
(31:28):
old grandson and they're on their own property, right. Yeah,
And somehow, in the early morning hours, if I'm not mistaken,
it was around six am. Yes, and somehow, someway, Tommy
Ballard is shot in the chest from a rifle that
(31:52):
can't be seen from anywhere.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yep. Let me hang on, let me ask you something
real quick. First, blush, here, what does that tell you
about the individual that fired this weapon? And yeah, and
and it also goes to familiarity. Oh buddy, yeah, you
know so that you have to know points of access.
Here's here's another bit here. That's kind of it is
(32:17):
it truly is. And you have to understand the utility
of those of those perspectives. When we're working a shooting
scene from a reconstruction standpoint, we consider if say you've
got uh, Tommy who has been shot, you're going to
pull You're going to pull these kind of lines of
(32:39):
sight that like a wagon wheel, the spokes of a
wagon wheel kind of radiate out from his body. Okay,
but you have to consider, and this is something that
we assess at autopsy, kind of the ankle from which
this round struck him. That's where the grandson's testimony, our statement.
Let's put it to you that way, to you know,
(33:00):
put it out there that way. What position were you
and grandad in when you were walking and he fell,
Because you might actually depend upon the distance. He may
have seen him fall first before he heard the report
of the weapon, or he may have heard the report
of the weapon. He's going to turn his head and
then witness his grandpa maybe gasp, grasp his chest or
(33:23):
just fall over graveyard dead right there on the spot.
So it you know, one of the things that you
try to assess it a scene, and once you can
establish that point of the directionality of the bullet. That's
one of the things that we always try to do.
You know, you hear about our assessments at autopsy where
we talk about we'll say, well, it's from front to rear,
(33:44):
around travels from front to rear, it goes from high
to low, which means maybe you're in a position of
dominance and firing down on a target, or from below
to above. Maybe it lists from right to left of
the decedent. It originated to his right side, and we
can actually look at these injuries and give you an idea.
But here's the problem with this particular injury that this
(34:07):
man has sustained, Dave, is that the range is indeterminate
because it's not like somebody walked up to him and
fired this round into his chest where we're going to
have soot deposition and all of those things that we'd
look for relative to close close gunfire. This is fired
at a distance, So the only thing that you're really
going to have is this kind of a braided area
(34:30):
around the round, and it you know where this originates from,
you'll see it. It's kind of red irritated, a little
area that's around the actual injury itself, and it's because
a bullet is spinning through the air and it literally
twists the skin like that. That's all you see on
these indeterminate.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Actually see that in the skin.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, yeah, you can. And microscopically you can pick up
on you take Yeah, you can pick up and take
sections of it. And it's demonstrated pretty well. But you
can see it with I'll tell you you can see
it with a hand len it's a magnifying glass. You
can actually take it and see it like that once
the wound is cleaned of blood and that sort of thing.
But the only thing that it really tells you is
(35:11):
that it's from an indeterminate distance once you get away,
you know, beyond Some people have a variety of different
parameters they put on it. You think about thirty six inches,
it's generally about the maximum distance. So anything within thirty
six inches you might have shot at getting soot depositions.
So out beyond about thirty six inches, brother, you can't
(35:34):
get nothing. And so it's not going to tell you
how the range of fire. But we know that no
one was approximating him with this weapon, like some mystery
person appeared in the woods as they're walking down this
path and fired them round. Here's another thing too, that's
interesting about this is that Dave, you know we were
(35:57):
talking about we're talking about the roosters are just wake up?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
All right?
Speaker 1 (36:01):
This is early early in the day. How is a
killer going to know about the timetable involved when you
exit out of your home with your grandson. You talk
about a total disregard. This might this ranks right up
there with one of the more callous things that we've covered,
because you're literally murdering this gentleman in front of his
(36:24):
twelve year old grandson, just sinking. Let that sink in
for a second. Is this is this something that's going
to leave his mind? You remember how I was talking
about early on, I was talking about memories that I
had walking through the woods of my papa. I still
remember it to this day. My grandfather was not murdered.
You know this, This is a time that is marked
in this child's mind forever and ever. Amen, you know,
(36:45):
moving forward, and so, who's familiar enough with the schedule
that Tommy would have had, And going back to Crystal,
who's familiar enough with her schedule to get her off
the road, if you will? And out of the regular
rhythm rhythm. You're talking about a lady that has children,
(37:06):
five kids. Yeah, she has a very regimented world. This
idea that are parents, grandparents, You've got brothers and sisters.
You know that if you're the person in charge, baby,
you got to keep a time tight timetable. And the
more elements children that you have in the picture, the
tighter your time is. You don't have time for foolishness.
(37:29):
So you have to be able to understand who in
her world, who in Tommy's world would have had enough
of an awareness of what their daily routine was. And
back to Tommy, I know I'm kind of running back
over the same pass here, but there's so much to
unpacked with this case. When you think about time alone,
who in the world would have known that on that
(37:50):
particular day, at that particular time, he would have exited
from his house with his grandson and begin to trek
off into the woods to.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Hunt from that location.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
By the way, from that specific location, who would have
known it?
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And by the way that specific location but right up
against the Bluegrass.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Parkway access an opportunity and showing up with the tools,
showing up with the tools to do the job being
familiar with the terrain. Is there a place you could
go and hide? Well, yeah, I mean, oh you look,
do me a favor. Don't believe what I'm saying. Next
time you're riding down the road and you're on a
four lane highway a state highway, look on either side.
Look at the brush line that's there. You can't see
(38:30):
what's on the other side. Now, you might come across
a field every now and then where it's cleared out,
but for the most part you're going to see pine trees.
You might see an occasual oak tree, but you're going
to see low level brush, which if you wanted to
create a hide, you know, if you put it in
the terms of and let's just face it, this is
an assassination. I think where that's planned, you have an
(38:54):
opportunity to do it. This isn't like some random round now,
is it Dave that just traveled out of nowhere and
happen to strike this man in the chest.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
And it happened on November nineteenth, So we're talking about
the early morning hours of a cold November morning in Kentucky.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, and this is right right at the time of year,
at least down here in south where most deer season,
white tail season kicks off. You know, so you're in
that area. Well, he's going out. I guess he's going
to try to bag a deer with his grandson. That's
probably what they're going to try to do. And they're
out there, they're in motion. This is property that he knows.
(39:29):
I don't know. Maybe he's got salt blocks out on
his property. Maybe he has a specific area where, you know,
deer going to walk into his field of view and
he'll be able to take a deer and his grandson
will be able to witness it. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
When you look at this, it says Ballard was preparing
for a hunting trip with his twelve year old grandson
on family property next to the Bluegrass Parkway in Bardstown, Kentucky.
An unknown subject fired one shot and hit Ballard in
the chest and instantly killed him. Yeah, the gun that
(40:01):
the rifle they believe that was used and the murder
of Tommy Ballard was once owned by Nick Howck holy Smokes,
the older brother of Brooks how This story continues. These
are Brooks Howk has been arrested and charged in the
murder of Crystal Rogers even though they haven't found her body. Now, Joe,
I have a question, how do you do that? What
(40:21):
do they do with you? Do you come into play
where the police sit down and say, okay, Professor Morgan,
we haven't found the body, but here's what we do have.
Can you is there any way you believe this person
might still be alive? What do we do here? And
we have the body of Tommy Ballard, we do not
have the body of Crystal Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, and unfortunately, well, I'll say unfortunately this is from
a practicality standpoint, there's nothing really that the medical examiner
can do in that circumstance if you don't have like
we play into our world, plays into a missing individual
where they are declared dead. If say, and here's the
(41:01):
term that people people get frustrated with it sometimes. But
when you have a copious amount of blood at a scene,
one of the things that we'll ask the medical examiner
is this much blood that we're seeing at the scene,
is this compatible with life? And you might look at
it and there's really if you have a big blood stain,
there's no way to actually calculate the volume. Okay, on
(41:24):
carpet and anywhere else we can speak to that and say, yeah, this,
this volume of blood might not be compatible with life today.
With Crystal, We're not talking about a volume of blood.
We're talking about a woman that has just vanished. And
how do people vanish? I think one of the most
interesting things about about Crystal's disappearance and continuing absence. You
(41:52):
know she has Yeah, as you'd mentioned rightly, that she's
been declared dead at this point in time. This is
a homicide. It's been he's been charged with home side
and you do not you do not charge with somebody
with homicide if you do not believe that subject to
in fact be debt. So one of the interesting elements
is how do you make a body disappear? Do you
(42:15):
have access to heavy equipment? Do you have access to, say,
for instance, I don't know tools to create cement with.
Do you have access to the ability to render down
a body? And when I say that, I'm talking about dismemberment,
I'm talking about fire. Do you have the willpower and
(42:39):
the tools and the ability to do that? And still,
since we're talking twenty fifteen, Dave, as of this recording
right now, it's twenty twenty four, A lot of water's
passing inder the bridge. There's been a lot of people
looking for There are rewards out there, their rewards for
(43:04):
both Tommy and for Crystal. And to this point, we
don't know really any more than we have when she
went missing. But I'll tell you this, the police are
still investigating and hopefully at some point in time we're
going to see more evidence come to light. We'll be
(43:25):
keeping an eye on this case moving forward. I can
guarantee you that because this is one of the biggest
mysteries that I have covered some time, and we're going
to travel down the Bluegrass Parkway one more time. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Bags
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.