August 20, 2024 • 37 mins
Matthew Perry became a star surrounded by "Friends" and became a falling star surrounded by "Friends" who did nothing but feed his addiction. On this episode of Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan will explain how a death investigator determines if a body found submerged in a hot tub died from drowning, drugs, or a combination of both. And in the end, who is responsible?
Transcript Highlights
00:00.00 Introduction of a "friend"
00:39.79 Joe Talks about being fan of Matthew Perry films
05:00.76 Discussion of Matthew Perry physically showing addiction
09:03.23 Discussion of addiction and death
14:04.73 Discussion of ketamine
18:57.46 Talk about Joe finding live addict during death investigation
24:28.68 Discussion of different types of drugs
27:46.64 Discussion of doctor selling $12 bottle of ketamine for $2,000
32:42.38 Discussion of death investigation, elements of drowning
36:21.22 Conclusion, will doctors be treated as street dealers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body dots, but Joseph's gotten more. Though I am around
true crime obviously quite a bit because of appearances on
television and this podcast. Even I will have people that
will approach me and ask me what is my favorite
(00:23):
true crime program on television? And my boiler plate answer
every single time is I do not watch true crime stories.
It's what they used to call it, a busman's holiday.
I like things that are a bit lighter. I like
(00:45):
things that I guess you could say might be I
don't know, comically edifying. I don't know if that's if
that's the right framework, but it's it's in that that
vein that my wife Kim and I we spend most
of our time watching things like rom coms or old
(01:09):
comedies that we can from television. Big Seinfeld fan, by
the way. But there's a person who we have enjoyed
over the years watching on the big screen and small screen,
but to a great degree on the big screen, and
that's Matthew Perry. I think probably my favorite movie of
(01:31):
all time that he is in and certainly probably in
my top five, is The Whole nine Yards. I love
that movie. It is absolutely hilarious with him and Bruce Willis. However,
many times when the mask of comedy falls away, there's
(01:56):
left behind the true face, a face of tragedy. And today, unfortunately,
we're going to be digging into the case of Matthew
Perry's death, and what's in the news right now subsequent
(02:16):
to his death are the arrest of five individuals who
likely had a hand in bringing about his end, and
of course, the end of a comic genius's life. I'm
Josephcott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. I think the thing
(02:39):
I love most about Matthew Perry Dave is that when
it comes to comedy, he made it look effortless. He's
one of those guys for me that can do physical comedy.
And if you ever want to see perfect example of
physical comedy, it's juxtaposition of Bruce Willis in uh in
(03:05):
uh the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Matthew Perry just had a way of movement, a way
of reacting to things that it doesn't matter how many
times I watched that movie, I will split a gut
every single time. It's so funny. And Uh, Kim, my
wife is actually uh uh a fan of of the
movie Fools Rush in with Selma hyak. And we've watched
(03:32):
it a number of times and again physical comedy, uh uh,
all the way through falling on a cactus plant and
coming up with all of the the cactus needles stuck
in his backside and along his back and it sounds painful,
but it was in fact funny and it's uh, it's
really tragic, you know, to see see this long road
(03:52):
that this man has been on and uh, you know,
to essentially uh to that fateful day when he was
found by this is floating face down initially in his
pool or in the hot tub in his adjacent to
his pool at his home in Pacific Palisades. And there's
been cases like this obviously for years and years, and
(04:13):
you just don't see it coming out. I think many
people that deal with addiction they believe that they are
in fact bulletproof. But that certainly wasn't the case with
miss Perry, now, was it. You know?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I got sober August seventh, nineteen ninety. It's a long
time ago, but I remember watching Friends in the nineties
and if you go back and watch the episodes, watch
Matthew Perry's physicalness, not the comedy, look at him. You
can see when he's using him when he's not. You
can actually tell by his appearance whether he's using pills
(04:47):
or something else. You can tell when it's alcohol. Matthew Perry,
by his own admission, was an alcoholic and addict and
had tried to become sober many times, and you can
physically see his demise on they show up and down,
weight loss, weight gain. Sometimes you think about it. When
you've got millions of dollars, you know you can cover
up a multitude of sends with money, and he couldn't cover
(05:10):
it up. They all knew, and they loved him. He
was like, this is a guy everybody liked, even though
they had a lot of issues. They loved him. He
was a good guy, not a bad.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Sweet because they described him as a sweet man. And
I don't doubt.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That addictions an equal opportunity destroyer. There are only a
couple of things that happened at the end of it.
You either get sober and get your life back, sometimes
for the first time, or you end up in jail
or you die. I have oftentimes wondered, Joe, I don't
know that much about ketamine other than hearing people talk
about it. I thought ketamine was an animal tranquilizer.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, and it really, you know, it came into it
came into I don't want to say into fashion necessarily,
but it was viewed as an alternative to PCP I
F fen cycladine back in the sixties, and it has
(06:07):
been used in treatment relative to animals. And it's a
it's a non opioid tranquilizer, and it has hallucinogenic effects.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Okay, So what's the difference between that and say, because
a non opioid, Because most of the times when we
think about people overdosing, it's on an opioid of some type.
You know, we hear of OxyContin and things like that.
Where does this fit into the stream of drugs? You say,
it's non opioid, but it has hallucinogenic properties.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
It does, and it has sedative properties as well, and
it's used it creates this kind of sense of euphoria.
You can have a relaxed sensation. And it's been used
also as a as a club drug. You know, I
don't know if you're in the yeah, yeah, special case
(07:04):
what it's referred to as. And you know, you think
about some of the other drugs that were out there
that particularly became fashionable toward the end of the eighties,
these synthetic drugs like like ecstasy that were used, and
it knocks down inhibitions when it's dosed correctly, uh you.
And keep in mind that for ketamine, it's actually used
(07:28):
as an anesthetic, so that it's a precursor to can
be applied prior to surgery. So it's gonna it's gonna
put that person in that kind of dream like state.
And for you know, for our friends out there that
have had to go through surgery, you know, they'll they'll
push that one drug, h you know, prior to surgery,
(07:50):
and it's going to vary, you know, depended upon the physician.
But it's that kind of uh, that kind of floating,
floating feeling that you have. It doesn't necessarily put you
into that deep dark blackness that you have when they
actually hit you with anesthesia. It gets you into a
(08:11):
very relaxed state. And look, hey, I got I gotta,
I gotta admit something to you, Dave. I think probably
for most of us in the world that we live in,
that's a desirable state perhaps to be in. Wouldn't it
be great if you could get that on tap and
not have to pay the price that you do with
a substance like that. But unfortunately, it's it that's hard
(08:35):
to attain. I think that many people that unfortunately fall
into this trap of addiction see it as an opportunity
to uh, to not have to do that work. You know,
a good friend mine, Dave Mack, actually said that, you know,
you can make a choice to be sober, and it sober,
(08:56):
sobriety exists for you. But boy, it's hard, you know,
really heartbreaking. Things that about Matthew Perry, I think is
that by his own count, he said he I think
he had detoxed sixty times, Dave over the course of
(09:17):
the you know, and what that drags your body through
that you know where you're desiring the strug and it's
this kind of deep, deep desire that you have your
body screaming for it, and you have to deny yourself
that I cannot be in a place in my mind
(09:38):
where I could imagine that that bees kind of raising
its head. And when the thing about if you have
an addiction issue and you're going down this road, you
want to escape the pain of what you're faced with
relative to detox every single time, can you imagine that
moment that you make a choice where you're saying, Okay,
(10:00):
I'm going to turn my life around. I'm not going
to pick it up again, and you take that step
and where you're going to be detoxed, and it's like
taking a punch right in the nose, only worse.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
With Matthew Perry using ketamine as and apparently his diagnosis
was using this as a depression therapy, I read that
it was used in therapy for those who are that
other chemicals are not working. They're yeah, they're resistance to it.
And that's uh.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And I think that what does that mean, Well, that
any other kind of medication that might be prescribed, you know,
to a patient to overcome these uh depressive moments. And
I've been through them myself, for those of you that
know my story, diagnosed with PTSD, and there are some
(10:52):
very dark dark corners of my mind where, in all
honesty with you, that took me to very dark areas
where I had to go through incredible bouts of depression
and try to overcome those. And part of overcoming that
through my own therapy was medications that helped me along
(11:13):
the way. The problem is is that for some of us.
I think many of us to a certain degree have
maybe a predisposition to depression. And there's a thread that
runs through life. But you know, Dave, in a more
sinister sense, there's also another thread that those individuals and
(11:39):
God bless them, that are wrought with addictive personalities, the
specter of depression, their need to feel better. They're those
that are out there that, just like a watering hole
in Africa, are waiting for the weakest among the herd
(12:04):
to strike, and in this particular case, they did strike,
and it's in my opinion, they brought about the death
of Matthew Perry. Ketamine can be applied in a couple
(12:31):
of couple of methods. It in fact can be injected
and for those that are going through ketamine infusion treatment,
it goes into a port uh an intravenious port where
(12:54):
it can be injected and administered by medical professionals. It
can be injected i AM, which is intramuscular, and that
does in fact occur. You can actually snort it and
it can be consumed orally as well. In Matthew Perry's case,
(13:22):
we have to understand that on October twenty eighth, twenty
twenty three, which is when mister Perry was found deceeized.
He had, according to reports, had received multiple shots of
ketamine per his personal assistant who eventually found him deceased,
(13:47):
who came back home and found him deceased floating face
down and was able to put him in a seated position. Now,
this individual related that it's actually Kenneth Iawa Masa, who
was his personal assistant, admitted that he had shot Matthew
(14:13):
Perry up multiple times, maybe as many as six times.
Matthew Perry had requested, according to this gentleman, that he
shoot him up with a big one, quote unquote. According
to Aaamasa, it's not surprising that once you get to
(14:34):
that point where you have this drug working on your system,
it's going to begin to drag you down. And of
course drugs and a body of water do not mix
at all. You put someone in a hot tub, for instance,
after they've been injected with a drug like ketamine that
(14:55):
has this kind of surreal, you know, in impact on yourself,
where you know all of your you're in a totally
relaxed state. You can imagine someone just kind of sleepily,
kind of passing away in this environment, and then you
double that up where the warmth safer instance of a
hot tub and the individuals found floating in there. It's
(15:17):
it's certainly a lethal combination day.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
For those who don't know the difference between intermuscular and
intervening is what does that mean in terms of injecting
and using drugs for the user?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, Well, if you can imagine if you can go
an IV drug, for instance, when this is injected directly
into your body, it's going to hit your system like
a locomotive because it's instantaneous. Any anywhere where you can
get the uptake of the drug immediately, first off, you're
(15:50):
going to get the full effect of it. It's not
going to diminish at all. Where if say, for instance,
you're going i M, you're dealing with kind of an
absorbency factor there. If you go IV, it's driving it
right into your system. You know. I've actually worked cases
(16:10):
where people have place cocaine, for instance, They've inserted it
directly and it is absorbed directly into the system at
a very very high rate. And we'll put these individuals
on the ceiling, if you will.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It's drug ods in and of themselves. And I've had
a lot of experience working cases where I would go
to what they used to refer to as shooting galleries.
It's a common gathering spot out on the street. That is,
we're not talking about people that are very wealthy where
you're having drugs directly delivered to your home. Okay, I'm
(16:58):
not saying that those two people that street level drug
abusers and say the celebrity set that they're not going
to cross pass, because there's any any number of times
when this has occurred over the years where they do
in fact cross pass the people that supply the drugs
deal with both sides, you know, whoever that they can
(17:18):
entice into this because they have a particular weakness for
the drugs. It is about money and that is the
sole driver behind it. And you know, you go to
a lot of these really deplorable locations that I've been
on many many times where you will walk into a home,
for instance, or a house it's not really a home.
(17:39):
Home implies something else, doesn't entirely. You go into a
house that's used as a shooting gallery and you will
find discarded needles all over the place. You'll actually find
tourniquets all over the place. Or something that has been
used as a tourniquet. Many times they'll use a belt,
those sorts of things, and they'll be discarded all over
the place, and it's filth, it's it's filthy, it's dirty,
(18:03):
and they're very, very dangerous. I actually had an event
where I had and I was very young investigator at
the time, and I was working a case of a
guy that had that had actually odd on heroin and
the police had not swept this old, old structure very well.
And there was another junkie inside of a closet in
(18:24):
the house and he he came to while we were
there and charged at us with a needle in his hand,
and the cops and I was bent over a body
while I was doing this, and the cops took him
down and arrested him at that moment. Tom So, that's
a very dangerous and that rarely happens. Most people that
(18:46):
are around the dead that are junkies and say like
a shooting gallery, I have them. I've had many times
where they will wrap bodies up and then discard them
in other places, and because they don't want to be
associated with the police, they want to continue to feed
their addiction. If you have a dead body at a
residence like that or where they're all, you know, hold
(19:08):
up in that particular place. That draws attention, and of
course you draw attention to them, somebody's going to jail.
But in Matthew Perry's case, that's not what happened. He
has someone a personal assistant, and he had had a
couple of personal assistants over the years that, to my
way of thinking, would go out and acquire these drugs.
(19:28):
And that's why Masa has been charged in this particular case.
He's that bridge between I think two physicians and also
this ketaming queen the smacks of, of course, the smacks
of I'm thinking of Michael Jackson right now, where you know.
He famously said to his physician more milk, and he
(19:52):
referred to this combination, which in and of itself is
and it had anesthetic property to it. He would get
the milk and the physician would apply it to him.
Of course, the physician, this is a Schedule three drug.
To Conrad Murnane, I'm talking about, yeah, and it's you
have to be a physician, a licensed physician to acquire it.
(20:15):
If you cannot get it from a physician, then you
would rely on someone like the Ketymine Queen where you
can actually acquire it from Mexico and it can be
brought in as an injectable in the liquid form.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
When that's the case, show are there varying levels of
ketamine like for example, when you buy drugs, when you
when your doctor prescribes the drug, it usually has ten milligrams,
five milligrams, what have you? Is the same thing with ketemine.
Are there different strengths to ketamine or is it just
here's ketamine.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Well it's yeah, it's more it's more of the applied
dosage and the same thing applause here with You can
look at dosages from this perspective either. Remember remember according
to this personal assistant, mister Perry said, give me a
big shot. Okay. Well what can we draw from that? Well,
(21:10):
we would say that, okay, give me a big shot.
That means that you're going to up the dosage. So
do we say that the regular dosage, whatever milligrams it
was that was being applied and that will come out eventually,
was it insufficient to the task to that level that
mister Perry wanted to achieve, or you can look at
(21:33):
it from the perspective, you're going to take multiple dosages
over the period of a day, and this individual had
given mister Perry multiple injections over that period of time.
This is another thing this personal assistant is not. He's
not even the equivalent of a nursing student, okay, but
yet he is applying this high powered drug to this
(21:57):
man at his request. According to the personal assistant, he's
mister Perry is saying, inject me with it. That leaves
us at another point, why does mister Perry need someone
to inject him? Why is he not injecting himself. Did
he have a fear of needles? Perhaps maybe he was
(22:19):
unsure of how to utilize a needle, or you know,
was it something else? Because this guy was really involved
in acquisition, I think of the drugs and this goes
to a bigger point. They and you and I have
talked about this on multiple occasions on bodybacks, Dave, where
we have an individual who is going to have access
(22:44):
to the drugs and they are that pressure point that
when the police begin to work these cases, Dave, that
can apply that pressure and guess what, somebody is always
going to roll over on another person or another group
of people Matthew Perry, according to all reports, had a long,
(23:17):
tragic history of substance abuse, and Dave, one of the
things that's really heartbreaking about his journey because it is
a journey. It's a horrific journey that I don't wish
on anyone. His family is friends, you know, everybody in
his circle. You had mentioned his colleagues on the television
(23:37):
show Friends. You can imagine watching this who they frame
as a sweet man developed the dwindles essentially, you know
where they would he would, you know, kind of trajectory
would take him downhill. He'd gained weight and he would
lose weight, and you can tell their affect kind of
changes over a period of time. But you know, he
(24:00):
had had a problem in the past with opioid addiction,
which is different than dependency upon ketamine. And for me
as an investigator, when I'm working a case and I
have someone that migrates from one type of drug to
another that has different properties and how it's going to
impact you physiologically, that's that's that. I don't know that
(24:26):
it necessarily matters what the drug is, Dave. It has
to do with that craving, that burning desire and looking
back at this opioid addiction. Matthew Perry had paid a
price for this. He had actually had intestinal problems as
a result of the opioid addiction. And that's that is
not uncommon. You can. I have had cases where I've
(24:51):
had people that have been addicted to opioids and they
have had a necrotic bowel, they will develop things like
a fecal impaction where they cannot pass pass waste effectively.
And apparently this is what may have happened with mister
(25:12):
Perian past that probably part of his intestine have become infarcted.
And what that means when we say the term infarcted,
you can actually have a mile cardial infarction, which is
a heart attack. So what does that mean, Well, it
means that the blood supply in an organ becomes compromised
(25:37):
so that that part of the tissue that that that
that blood source or that that vascular source supplies to
keep it healthy, it dies. And so with a bowel infarction,
which may have been and it sounds as though it
was with the opioid problem, part of his bowel died, Dave,
(25:58):
and he had to have that resected and then have
cost me back place standing, you know, and I don't
know that I realized that necessarily, But you're talking about
wearing just let the sink in just for a second,
wearing your addiction. That Can you imagine the horror of this,
(26:18):
that you've had to go through surgical treatment for this
problem that has arisen from an opioid addiction. I would
imagine there was a physician that was telling him, look,
you cannot continue on down this road. This is We've
already seen this happen with your intestines. We have saved you.
(26:38):
And they only gave him, like I think they told
to say, like a two or three percent of surviving
relative to this bowel problems that he had had.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
But for Matthew Perry, and I'm being honest when I
tell you this, I don't think he thought of ketamine
as something that could kill him. I don't think he
thought of it as a as you would something used
for depression. I'm treating depression. It gives me euph You.
One thing he did talk about in his book was
that ketamine was not his is not for him. When
he first used ketamine, didn't like it, But as addicts do,
(27:12):
alcoholics call it the beer experiment, Joe, when they you
stop drinking liquor, okay, and you say, well, I'm going
to stop drinking, I'm gonna drink beer. I'm just gonna
drink beer like that. An alcoholic thinks that way, okay,
and we all do that. You go through the beer experiment,
then you realize, well, the only thing I can really
drink is water in you know. And the same thing
with people who take pills. Realize there's the tail and
(27:32):
all experiment. People who are used to taking pills, they
will eventually, as they narrow it down, let me take
an aspirin and they'll take a bunch of them Thailand, al,
what have you? And I think, based on what I
was reading about Matthew Perry and what he had done
in his life, and look at what he had in
his system, ketamine became that safe drug they're treating his depression.
(27:53):
It's not like cocaine, it's not like opiois, it's not
like oxyconton, it's not like all these other things that
nearly killed him. This one just makes me feel good
and it's okay. And a doctor gave me the script.
Here's how you know it's a deadly drug. Here's how
you know it's feeding an addiction. And by the way,
here's how you know that doctor Placentia should be in
prison for the rest of his life. Doctor Placentia bragged
(28:17):
to it. First of all, he told another patient that
Matthew Perry was spiraling out of control. He knew ketamine
had spun this guy. But two, he was selling twelve
dollars worth of ketamine for two thousand dollars to Matthew Perry,
a twelve dollars vial of ketamine. They were charging Matthew
Perry two grand because they knew he had the money.
(28:38):
And this is what Placentia actually told to his partner Chavez.
This is a direct text. I wonder how much this
moron will pay. You have the drug dealer hiding in
a doctor smock, and you have the addict who is
rich and famous, who again probably thinks this isn't gonna
kill me. The oxygon would kill me, the booze would
(29:00):
kill me. The purpose that all those are gonna get
this won't kill me. It's kett of me. It's treating
my depression. I feel like I'm on a happy cloud.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know, I've had this discussion with other people in
the medical legal field. And I think that I have
mentioned this before and should should we consider I think,
as corners and medical examiners, should we consider delving into
(29:34):
this world of ruling these deaths from ods as not
accidental events, but as homicides, because you know, you don't
necessarily there's people in the world of prosecution. Many times
(29:55):
they'll go down this road of intent and listen, it
doesn't matter if I happen to be holding a weapon
in my hand and I'm pointing the weapon around and
I'm acting careless with it, and I'll pull the trigger
and it strikes some money in the chest, We're probably
going to rule that as a homicide. And the cause
(30:19):
of death is going to be a gunshot one, obviously.
And Dave, I'm very interested in this particular case with
the manner of death in Matthew Perry's case, should the
medical examiner or medical examiner corner, you know, in LA,
should his case be ruled an accidental death or should
(30:42):
it be ruled as a homicide? And you know, you
they deal with this issue of I know you've heard
this before, callous indifference, and you think about these comments
that the physician is making here, and it's not like
it's not like this physician is some child that doesn't
(31:02):
have a concept of what these pharmaceuticals can do to somebody, right,
I mean, by their own ad mission, they're making these
comments referring to this man as would you say, isn't
an idiot moron?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I wonder, I wonder this is what actually turned me
on this. I was really trying to hold my emotions
in on this because I don't like it's easy for
addicts and addicts families to blame other people. It really is,
because if the attict doesn't get the drugs, you know,
he's not dead, if his assistant doesn't shoot him up.
(31:35):
But when you look at this and you think you've
got two doctors, the medical doctors that are providing something
that they know what it does, They know the effects
of ketamine. They know you have to have you have
to be able to write this prescription, Joe, I can't
write it. I can't grab a lab thing and write
prescriptions for this medicine. They could because they knew what
it did. But you've got doctor Placentia, doctor Chavez, And
(31:57):
I wonder how much this moron we'll pay selling him
twelve dollars worth of ketamine for two grand. Now, he
also expressed a desire. This is what they're saying. Placentia
expressed a desire to become Perry's quote unquote go to
for drugs. And he's the one that instructed Perry's assistant,
Kenneth Awassa to I Will Masa to how to inject him.
(32:21):
So he was trained on how to inject Matthew Perry
with ketamine. And I like and think of the guy
knows his history and he's saying I want to be
his go to guy for drugs? Why aren't you? What
is the hippocratic ooth do no harm?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, that's I think that that's that's the big thing
we're looking at here. And it's a real touchstone. I
said that I don't watch true crime, but one of
my favorite programs of all time that actually appeared on
Netflix was was the show now I've told you about
it and called The Pharmacist. I watch that, by the way, Yeah,
(32:57):
and it's it's just gut wrenching, uh with uh with
what this man went through relative to his son. And
he uncovered this idea of pill mills, right, and and
what this uh, this group of physicians are this organization
was willing to do in order to feed these addictions
(33:19):
of these you know, to these individuals. You know, when
when you're a medical examiner, uh and you work a
case like this because you know, as I said, it
can get confusing. I think you find an individual who
is floating essentially face down in a standalone jacuzzi on
his property, uh, mister Perry's property. That is, you go
(33:43):
in to uh do the autopsy, and you discover that
he does in fact present with elements of drowning in
his death. But is drowning actually the cause of death?
And that that gets into this this gray area where
you're wondering, was the amount of kettyming that he had
(34:04):
on board? Was it as as physicians are prone to
say in my world forensic pathologists, that it's incompatible with life,
you know, the level of drugs that you have on board,
or was it falling over into the water. And the
autopsy demonstrated that he did in fact drowned. And here's
(34:25):
another interesting little point that we look for, you know,
at at autopsy. And these two things are kind of fascinating.
This drug, like an opiate, actually depresses your respiratory system,
and it can make your drunk, your your lungs kind
(34:48):
of heavy. Okay, if you will you go into like
this congestive event. Well, this mechanism is not too dissimilar
from the process of drowning, because that's one of the
things that happens. You begin to, you know, take on water.
You can imagine you passed out. I don't know if anyone,
I don't know if anyone's ever you know, kind of
(35:09):
fallen asleep in the tub before, in a warm bath
and you slip off into the water and all of
a sudden you're choking on water. That's actually happened to
me before working midnights and coming home taking a hot bath,
and I've fallen sleep in a bathtub. It's terrifying. But
you know, when you have this drug on board, your
system is so depressed at that point in time that
(35:30):
you can't recover from this kind of fatal spiral that
you're in because of the drug. So you have these
two two potential causes of death with Matthew Perry's fatal
event here that they're going to be looking at, and
now that they have actually affected not an arrest, but
(35:51):
multiple arrests relative to this five people moving forward. That's
going to be interesting to see how this is played out.
And one other thing, Dave, I'm going to be interested
to see if the physicians that are involved in this
pay close attention here, folks, I'm telling you if the
(36:12):
physicians in this particular case are treated the same way
as the Keteming Queen. All right, and think about that
just for a second, because many times there are events
that occur involving physicians where the term medical misadventure is
talked about. Generally, that's like a surgical intervention where something
(36:35):
happens and someone dies. But I wonder, I just wonder
in this case, are they going to be as robust
with their pursuit of justice in this case relative to
the physicians as they will with this lady, the Keteming Queen.
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Packs.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Who knows
Body dots, but Joseph's gotten more. Though I am around
true crime obviously quite a bit because of appearances on
television and this podcast. Even I will have people that
will approach me and ask me what is my favorite
(00:23):
true crime program on television? And my boiler plate answer
every single time is I do not watch true crime stories.
It's what they used to call it, a busman's holiday.
I like things that are a bit lighter. I like
(00:45):
things that I guess you could say might be I
don't know, comically edifying. I don't know if that's if
that's the right framework, but it's it's in that that
vein that my wife Kim and I we spend most
of our time watching things like rom coms or old
(01:09):
comedies that we can from television. Big Seinfeld fan, by
the way. But there's a person who we have enjoyed
over the years watching on the big screen and small screen,
but to a great degree on the big screen, and
that's Matthew Perry. I think probably my favorite movie of
(01:31):
all time that he is in and certainly probably in
my top five, is The Whole nine Yards. I love
that movie. It is absolutely hilarious with him and Bruce Willis. However,
many times when the mask of comedy falls away, there's
(01:56):
left behind the true face, a face of tragedy. And today, unfortunately,
we're going to be digging into the case of Matthew
Perry's death, and what's in the news right now subsequent
(02:16):
to his death are the arrest of five individuals who
likely had a hand in bringing about his end, and
of course, the end of a comic genius's life. I'm
Josephcott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. I think the thing
(02:39):
I love most about Matthew Perry Dave is that when
it comes to comedy, he made it look effortless. He's
one of those guys for me that can do physical comedy.
And if you ever want to see perfect example of
physical comedy, it's juxtaposition of Bruce Willis in uh in
(03:05):
uh the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Matthew Perry just had a way of movement, a way
of reacting to things that it doesn't matter how many
times I watched that movie, I will split a gut
every single time. It's so funny. And Uh, Kim, my
wife is actually uh uh a fan of of the
movie Fools Rush in with Selma hyak. And we've watched
(03:32):
it a number of times and again physical comedy, uh uh,
all the way through falling on a cactus plant and
coming up with all of the the cactus needles stuck
in his backside and along his back and it sounds painful,
but it was in fact funny and it's uh, it's
really tragic, you know, to see see this long road
(03:52):
that this man has been on and uh, you know,
to essentially uh to that fateful day when he was
found by this is floating face down initially in his
pool or in the hot tub in his adjacent to
his pool at his home in Pacific Palisades. And there's
been cases like this obviously for years and years, and
(04:13):
you just don't see it coming out. I think many
people that deal with addiction they believe that they are
in fact bulletproof. But that certainly wasn't the case with
miss Perry, now, was it. You know?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I got sober August seventh, nineteen ninety. It's a long
time ago, but I remember watching Friends in the nineties
and if you go back and watch the episodes, watch
Matthew Perry's physicalness, not the comedy, look at him. You
can see when he's using him when he's not. You
can actually tell by his appearance whether he's using pills
(04:47):
or something else. You can tell when it's alcohol. Matthew Perry,
by his own admission, was an alcoholic and addict and
had tried to become sober many times, and you can
physically see his demise on they show up and down,
weight loss, weight gain. Sometimes you think about it. When
you've got millions of dollars, you know you can cover
up a multitude of sends with money, and he couldn't cover
(05:10):
it up. They all knew, and they loved him. He
was like, this is a guy everybody liked, even though
they had a lot of issues. They loved him. He
was a good guy, not a bad.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Sweet because they described him as a sweet man. And
I don't doubt.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
That addictions an equal opportunity destroyer. There are only a
couple of things that happened at the end of it.
You either get sober and get your life back, sometimes
for the first time, or you end up in jail
or you die. I have oftentimes wondered, Joe, I don't
know that much about ketamine other than hearing people talk
about it. I thought ketamine was an animal tranquilizer.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, and it really, you know, it came into it
came into I don't want to say into fashion necessarily,
but it was viewed as an alternative to PCP I
F fen cycladine back in the sixties, and it has
(06:07):
been used in treatment relative to animals. And it's a
it's a non opioid tranquilizer, and it has hallucinogenic effects.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Okay, So what's the difference between that and say, because
a non opioid, Because most of the times when we
think about people overdosing, it's on an opioid of some type.
You know, we hear of OxyContin and things like that.
Where does this fit into the stream of drugs? You say,
it's non opioid, but it has hallucinogenic properties.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
It does, and it has sedative properties as well, and
it's used it creates this kind of sense of euphoria.
You can have a relaxed sensation. And it's been used
also as a as a club drug. You know, I
don't know if you're in the yeah, yeah, special case
(07:04):
what it's referred to as. And you know, you think
about some of the other drugs that were out there
that particularly became fashionable toward the end of the eighties,
these synthetic drugs like like ecstasy that were used, and
it knocks down inhibitions when it's dosed correctly, uh you.
And keep in mind that for ketamine, it's actually used
(07:28):
as an anesthetic, so that it's a precursor to can
be applied prior to surgery. So it's gonna it's gonna
put that person in that kind of dream like state.
And for you know, for our friends out there that
have had to go through surgery, you know, they'll they'll
push that one drug, h you know, prior to surgery,
(07:50):
and it's going to vary, you know, depended upon the physician.
But it's that kind of uh, that kind of floating,
floating feeling that you have. It doesn't necessarily put you
into that deep dark blackness that you have when they
actually hit you with anesthesia. It gets you into a
(08:11):
very relaxed state. And look, hey, I got I gotta,
I gotta admit something to you, Dave. I think probably
for most of us in the world that we live in,
that's a desirable state perhaps to be in. Wouldn't it
be great if you could get that on tap and
not have to pay the price that you do with
a substance like that. But unfortunately, it's it that's hard
(08:35):
to attain. I think that many people that unfortunately fall
into this trap of addiction see it as an opportunity
to uh, to not have to do that work. You know,
a good friend mine, Dave Mack, actually said that, you know,
you can make a choice to be sober, and it sober,
(08:56):
sobriety exists for you. But boy, it's hard, you know,
really heartbreaking. Things that about Matthew Perry, I think is
that by his own count, he said he I think
he had detoxed sixty times, Dave over the course of
(09:17):
the you know, and what that drags your body through
that you know where you're desiring the strug and it's
this kind of deep, deep desire that you have your
body screaming for it, and you have to deny yourself
that I cannot be in a place in my mind
(09:38):
where I could imagine that that bees kind of raising
its head. And when the thing about if you have
an addiction issue and you're going down this road, you
want to escape the pain of what you're faced with
relative to detox every single time, can you imagine that
moment that you make a choice where you're saying, Okay,
(10:00):
I'm going to turn my life around. I'm not going
to pick it up again, and you take that step
and where you're going to be detoxed, and it's like
taking a punch right in the nose, only worse.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
With Matthew Perry using ketamine as and apparently his diagnosis
was using this as a depression therapy, I read that
it was used in therapy for those who are that
other chemicals are not working. They're yeah, they're resistance to it.
And that's uh.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And I think that what does that mean, Well, that
any other kind of medication that might be prescribed, you know,
to a patient to overcome these uh depressive moments. And
I've been through them myself, for those of you that
know my story, diagnosed with PTSD, and there are some
(10:52):
very dark dark corners of my mind where, in all
honesty with you, that took me to very dark areas
where I had to go through incredible bouts of depression
and try to overcome those. And part of overcoming that
through my own therapy was medications that helped me along
(11:13):
the way. The problem is is that for some of us.
I think many of us to a certain degree have
maybe a predisposition to depression. And there's a thread that
runs through life. But you know, Dave, in a more
sinister sense, there's also another thread that those individuals and
(11:39):
God bless them, that are wrought with addictive personalities, the
specter of depression, their need to feel better. They're those
that are out there that, just like a watering hole
in Africa, are waiting for the weakest among the herd
(12:04):
to strike, and in this particular case, they did strike,
and it's in my opinion, they brought about the death
of Matthew Perry. Ketamine can be applied in a couple
(12:31):
of couple of methods. It in fact can be injected
and for those that are going through ketamine infusion treatment,
it goes into a port uh an intravenious port where
(12:54):
it can be injected and administered by medical professionals. It
can be injected i AM, which is intramuscular, and that
does in fact occur. You can actually snort it and
it can be consumed orally as well. In Matthew Perry's case,
(13:22):
we have to understand that on October twenty eighth, twenty
twenty three, which is when mister Perry was found deceeized.
He had, according to reports, had received multiple shots of
ketamine per his personal assistant who eventually found him deceased,
(13:47):
who came back home and found him deceased floating face
down and was able to put him in a seated position. Now,
this individual related that it's actually Kenneth Iawa Masa, who
was his personal assistant, admitted that he had shot Matthew
(14:13):
Perry up multiple times, maybe as many as six times.
Matthew Perry had requested, according to this gentleman, that he
shoot him up with a big one, quote unquote. According
to Aaamasa, it's not surprising that once you get to
(14:34):
that point where you have this drug working on your system,
it's going to begin to drag you down. And of
course drugs and a body of water do not mix
at all. You put someone in a hot tub, for instance,
after they've been injected with a drug like ketamine that
(14:55):
has this kind of surreal, you know, in impact on yourself,
where you know all of your you're in a totally
relaxed state. You can imagine someone just kind of sleepily,
kind of passing away in this environment, and then you
double that up where the warmth safer instance of a
hot tub and the individuals found floating in there. It's
(15:17):
it's certainly a lethal combination day.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
For those who don't know the difference between intermuscular and
intervening is what does that mean in terms of injecting
and using drugs for the user?
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, Well, if you can imagine if you can go
an IV drug, for instance, when this is injected directly
into your body, it's going to hit your system like
a locomotive because it's instantaneous. Any anywhere where you can
get the uptake of the drug immediately, first off, you're
(15:50):
going to get the full effect of it. It's not
going to diminish at all. Where if say, for instance,
you're going i M, you're dealing with kind of an
absorbency factor there. If you go IV, it's driving it
right into your system. You know. I've actually worked cases
(16:10):
where people have place cocaine, for instance, They've inserted it
directly and it is absorbed directly into the system at
a very very high rate. And we'll put these individuals
on the ceiling, if you will.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It's drug ods in and of themselves. And I've had
a lot of experience working cases where I would go
to what they used to refer to as shooting galleries.
It's a common gathering spot out on the street. That is,
we're not talking about people that are very wealthy where
you're having drugs directly delivered to your home. Okay, I'm
(16:58):
not saying that those two people that street level drug
abusers and say the celebrity set that they're not going
to cross pass, because there's any any number of times
when this has occurred over the years where they do
in fact cross pass the people that supply the drugs
deal with both sides, you know, whoever that they can
(17:18):
entice into this because they have a particular weakness for
the drugs. It is about money and that is the
sole driver behind it. And you know, you go to
a lot of these really deplorable locations that I've been
on many many times where you will walk into a home,
for instance, or a house it's not really a home.
(17:39):
Home implies something else, doesn't entirely. You go into a
house that's used as a shooting gallery and you will
find discarded needles all over the place. You'll actually find
tourniquets all over the place. Or something that has been
used as a tourniquet. Many times they'll use a belt,
those sorts of things, and they'll be discarded all over
the place, and it's filth, it's it's filthy, it's dirty,
(18:03):
and they're very, very dangerous. I actually had an event
where I had and I was very young investigator at
the time, and I was working a case of a
guy that had that had actually odd on heroin and
the police had not swept this old, old structure very well.
And there was another junkie inside of a closet in
(18:24):
the house and he he came to while we were
there and charged at us with a needle in his hand,
and the cops and I was bent over a body
while I was doing this, and the cops took him
down and arrested him at that moment. Tom So, that's
a very dangerous and that rarely happens. Most people that
(18:46):
are around the dead that are junkies and say like
a shooting gallery, I have them. I've had many times
where they will wrap bodies up and then discard them
in other places, and because they don't want to be
associated with the police, they want to continue to feed
their addiction. If you have a dead body at a
residence like that or where they're all, you know, hold
(19:08):
up in that particular place. That draws attention, and of
course you draw attention to them, somebody's going to jail.
But in Matthew Perry's case, that's not what happened. He
has someone a personal assistant, and he had had a
couple of personal assistants over the years that, to my
way of thinking, would go out and acquire these drugs.
(19:28):
And that's why Masa has been charged in this particular case.
He's that bridge between I think two physicians and also
this ketaming queen the smacks of, of course, the smacks
of I'm thinking of Michael Jackson right now, where you know.
He famously said to his physician more milk, and he
(19:52):
referred to this combination, which in and of itself is
and it had anesthetic property to it. He would get
the milk and the physician would apply it to him.
Of course, the physician, this is a Schedule three drug.
To Conrad Murnane, I'm talking about, yeah, and it's you
have to be a physician, a licensed physician to acquire it.
(20:15):
If you cannot get it from a physician, then you
would rely on someone like the Ketymine Queen where you
can actually acquire it from Mexico and it can be
brought in as an injectable in the liquid form.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
When that's the case, show are there varying levels of
ketamine like for example, when you buy drugs, when you
when your doctor prescribes the drug, it usually has ten milligrams,
five milligrams, what have you? Is the same thing with ketemine.
Are there different strengths to ketamine or is it just
here's ketamine.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Well it's yeah, it's more it's more of the applied
dosage and the same thing applause here with You can
look at dosages from this perspective either. Remember remember according
to this personal assistant, mister Perry said, give me a
big shot. Okay. Well what can we draw from that? Well,
(21:10):
we would say that, okay, give me a big shot.
That means that you're going to up the dosage. So
do we say that the regular dosage, whatever milligrams it
was that was being applied and that will come out eventually,
was it insufficient to the task to that level that
mister Perry wanted to achieve, or you can look at
(21:33):
it from the perspective, you're going to take multiple dosages
over the period of a day, and this individual had
given mister Perry multiple injections over that period of time.
This is another thing this personal assistant is not. He's
not even the equivalent of a nursing student, okay, but
yet he is applying this high powered drug to this
(21:57):
man at his request. According to the personal assistant, he's
mister Perry is saying, inject me with it. That leaves
us at another point, why does mister Perry need someone
to inject him? Why is he not injecting himself. Did
he have a fear of needles? Perhaps maybe he was
(22:19):
unsure of how to utilize a needle, or you know,
was it something else? Because this guy was really involved
in acquisition, I think of the drugs and this goes
to a bigger point. They and you and I have
talked about this on multiple occasions on bodybacks, Dave, where
we have an individual who is going to have access
(22:44):
to the drugs and they are that pressure point that
when the police begin to work these cases, Dave, that
can apply that pressure and guess what, somebody is always
going to roll over on another person or another group
of people Matthew Perry, according to all reports, had a long,
(23:17):
tragic history of substance abuse, and Dave, one of the
things that's really heartbreaking about his journey because it is
a journey. It's a horrific journey that I don't wish
on anyone. His family is friends, you know, everybody in
his circle. You had mentioned his colleagues on the television
(23:37):
show Friends. You can imagine watching this who they frame
as a sweet man developed the dwindles essentially, you know
where they would he would, you know, kind of trajectory
would take him downhill. He'd gained weight and he would
lose weight, and you can tell their affect kind of
changes over a period of time. But you know, he
(24:00):
had had a problem in the past with opioid addiction,
which is different than dependency upon ketamine. And for me
as an investigator, when I'm working a case and I
have someone that migrates from one type of drug to
another that has different properties and how it's going to
impact you physiologically, that's that's that. I don't know that
(24:26):
it necessarily matters what the drug is, Dave. It has
to do with that craving, that burning desire and looking
back at this opioid addiction. Matthew Perry had paid a
price for this. He had actually had intestinal problems as
a result of the opioid addiction. And that's that is
not uncommon. You can. I have had cases where I've
(24:51):
had people that have been addicted to opioids and they
have had a necrotic bowel, they will develop things like
a fecal impaction where they cannot pass pass waste effectively.
And apparently this is what may have happened with mister
(25:12):
Perian past that probably part of his intestine have become infarcted.
And what that means when we say the term infarcted,
you can actually have a mile cardial infarction, which is
a heart attack. So what does that mean, Well, it
means that the blood supply in an organ becomes compromised
(25:37):
so that that part of the tissue that that that
that blood source or that that vascular source supplies to
keep it healthy, it dies. And so with a bowel infarction,
which may have been and it sounds as though it
was with the opioid problem, part of his bowel died, Dave,
(25:58):
and he had to have that resected and then have
cost me back place standing, you know, and I don't
know that I realized that necessarily, But you're talking about
wearing just let the sink in just for a second,
wearing your addiction. That Can you imagine the horror of this,
(26:18):
that you've had to go through surgical treatment for this
problem that has arisen from an opioid addiction. I would
imagine there was a physician that was telling him, look,
you cannot continue on down this road. This is We've
already seen this happen with your intestines. We have saved you.
(26:38):
And they only gave him, like I think they told
to say, like a two or three percent of surviving
relative to this bowel problems that he had had.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
But for Matthew Perry, and I'm being honest when I
tell you this, I don't think he thought of ketamine
as something that could kill him. I don't think he
thought of it as a as you would something used
for depression. I'm treating depression. It gives me euph You.
One thing he did talk about in his book was
that ketamine was not his is not for him. When
he first used ketamine, didn't like it, But as addicts do,
(27:12):
alcoholics call it the beer experiment, Joe, when they you
stop drinking liquor, okay, and you say, well, I'm going
to stop drinking, I'm gonna drink beer. I'm just gonna
drink beer like that. An alcoholic thinks that way, okay,
and we all do that. You go through the beer experiment,
then you realize, well, the only thing I can really
drink is water in you know. And the same thing
with people who take pills. Realize there's the tail and
(27:32):
all experiment. People who are used to taking pills, they
will eventually, as they narrow it down, let me take
an aspirin and they'll take a bunch of them Thailand, al,
what have you? And I think, based on what I
was reading about Matthew Perry and what he had done
in his life, and look at what he had in
his system, ketamine became that safe drug they're treating his depression.
(27:53):
It's not like cocaine, it's not like opiois, it's not
like oxyconton, it's not like all these other things that
nearly killed him. This one just makes me feel good
and it's okay. And a doctor gave me the script.
Here's how you know it's a deadly drug. Here's how
you know it's feeding an addiction. And by the way,
here's how you know that doctor Placentia should be in
prison for the rest of his life. Doctor Placentia bragged
(28:17):
to it. First of all, he told another patient that
Matthew Perry was spiraling out of control. He knew ketamine
had spun this guy. But two, he was selling twelve
dollars worth of ketamine for two thousand dollars to Matthew Perry,
a twelve dollars vial of ketamine. They were charging Matthew
Perry two grand because they knew he had the money.
(28:38):
And this is what Placentia actually told to his partner Chavez.
This is a direct text. I wonder how much this
moron will pay. You have the drug dealer hiding in
a doctor smock, and you have the addict who is
rich and famous, who again probably thinks this isn't gonna
kill me. The oxygon would kill me, the booze would
(29:00):
kill me. The purpose that all those are gonna get
this won't kill me. It's kett of me. It's treating
my depression. I feel like I'm on a happy cloud.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You know, I've had this discussion with other people in
the medical legal field. And I think that I have
mentioned this before and should should we consider I think,
as corners and medical examiners, should we consider delving into
(29:34):
this world of ruling these deaths from ods as not
accidental events, but as homicides, because you know, you don't
necessarily there's people in the world of prosecution. Many times
(29:55):
they'll go down this road of intent and listen, it
doesn't matter if I happen to be holding a weapon
in my hand and I'm pointing the weapon around and
I'm acting careless with it, and I'll pull the trigger
and it strikes some money in the chest, We're probably
going to rule that as a homicide. And the cause
(30:19):
of death is going to be a gunshot one, obviously.
And Dave, I'm very interested in this particular case with
the manner of death in Matthew Perry's case, should the
medical examiner or medical examiner corner, you know, in LA,
should his case be ruled an accidental death or should
(30:42):
it be ruled as a homicide? And you know, you
they deal with this issue of I know you've heard
this before, callous indifference, and you think about these comments
that the physician is making here, and it's not like
it's not like this physician is some child that doesn't
(31:02):
have a concept of what these pharmaceuticals can do to somebody, right,
I mean, by their own ad mission, they're making these
comments referring to this man as would you say, isn't
an idiot moron?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I wonder, I wonder this is what actually turned me
on this. I was really trying to hold my emotions
in on this because I don't like it's easy for
addicts and addicts families to blame other people. It really is,
because if the attict doesn't get the drugs, you know,
he's not dead, if his assistant doesn't shoot him up.
(31:35):
But when you look at this and you think you've
got two doctors, the medical doctors that are providing something
that they know what it does, They know the effects
of ketamine. They know you have to have you have
to be able to write this prescription, Joe, I can't
write it. I can't grab a lab thing and write
prescriptions for this medicine. They could because they knew what
it did. But you've got doctor Placentia, doctor Chavez, And
(31:57):
I wonder how much this moron we'll pay selling him
twelve dollars worth of ketamine for two grand. Now, he
also expressed a desire. This is what they're saying. Placentia
expressed a desire to become Perry's quote unquote go to
for drugs. And he's the one that instructed Perry's assistant,
Kenneth Awassa to I Will Masa to how to inject him.
(32:21):
So he was trained on how to inject Matthew Perry
with ketamine. And I like and think of the guy
knows his history and he's saying I want to be
his go to guy for drugs? Why aren't you? What
is the hippocratic ooth do no harm?
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, that's I think that that's that's the big thing
we're looking at here. And it's a real touchstone. I
said that I don't watch true crime, but one of
my favorite programs of all time that actually appeared on
Netflix was was the show now I've told you about
it and called The Pharmacist. I watch that, by the way, Yeah,
(32:57):
and it's it's just gut wrenching, uh with uh with
what this man went through relative to his son. And
he uncovered this idea of pill mills, right, and and
what this uh, this group of physicians are this organization
was willing to do in order to feed these addictions
(33:19):
of these you know, to these individuals. You know, when
when you're a medical examiner, uh and you work a
case like this because you know, as I said, it
can get confusing. I think you find an individual who
is floating essentially face down in a standalone jacuzzi on
his property, uh, mister Perry's property. That is, you go
(33:43):
in to uh do the autopsy, and you discover that
he does in fact present with elements of drowning in
his death. But is drowning actually the cause of death?
And that that gets into this this gray area where
you're wondering, was the amount of kettyming that he had
(34:04):
on board? Was it as as physicians are prone to
say in my world forensic pathologists, that it's incompatible with life,
you know, the level of drugs that you have on board,
or was it falling over into the water. And the
autopsy demonstrated that he did in fact drowned. And here's
(34:25):
another interesting little point that we look for, you know,
at at autopsy. And these two things are kind of fascinating.
This drug, like an opiate, actually depresses your respiratory system,
and it can make your drunk, your your lungs kind
(34:48):
of heavy. Okay, if you will you go into like
this congestive event. Well, this mechanism is not too dissimilar
from the process of drowning, because that's one of the
things that happens. You begin to, you know, take on water.
You can imagine you passed out. I don't know if anyone,
I don't know if anyone's ever you know, kind of
(35:09):
fallen asleep in the tub before, in a warm bath
and you slip off into the water and all of
a sudden you're choking on water. That's actually happened to
me before working midnights and coming home taking a hot bath,
and I've fallen sleep in a bathtub. It's terrifying. But
you know, when you have this drug on board, your
system is so depressed at that point in time that
(35:30):
you can't recover from this kind of fatal spiral that
you're in because of the drug. So you have these
two two potential causes of death with Matthew Perry's fatal
event here that they're going to be looking at, and
now that they have actually affected not an arrest, but
(35:51):
multiple arrests relative to this five people moving forward. That's
going to be interesting to see how this is played out.
And one other thing, Dave, I'm going to be interested
to see if the physicians that are involved in this
pay close attention here, folks, I'm telling you if the
(36:12):
physicians in this particular case are treated the same way
as the Keteming Queen. All right, and think about that
just for a second, because many times there are events
that occur involving physicians where the term medical misadventure is
talked about. Generally, that's like a surgical intervention where something
(36:35):
happens and someone dies. But I wonder, I just wonder
in this case, are they going to be as robust
with their pursuit of justice in this case relative to
the physicians as they will with this lady, the Keteming Queen.
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Packs.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
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Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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