September 2, 2025 • 42 mins
Emmanuel Haro is still missing.
His parents are both in jail and charged in his death. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the case as well as what Jake Haro did to his daughter when she was just 10-weeks-old.
Haro pleaded guilty and served 6-months in a work release program, but the 10-week-old is now seven and permanently bedridden because of the abuse inflicted by her father when she was an infant.
Transcribe Highlights
00:01.87 Introduction
02:07.37 Emmanuel Haro update
04:30.26 Rebecca Haro "black eye"
10:02.49 Looking back at 7-year-old daughter of Jake Haro
15:10.17 Soft-spot on the head of small child
20:14.87 Jake Haro beat 10-week-old daughter
25:08.74 Emmanuel Haro body not found
29:38.69 Placing child in trash very specific
33:10.04 Abuser may doctor shop
38:36.91 Police still searching for body
41:58.28 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Quody tis, but Joseph Scott More.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Whenever people say that they have made a mistake or
that they have misspoken, I almost kind of leaning because
I don't always believe that people make mistakes, because as
(00:26):
we've found out, people intentionally do bad things, but they
want you to think they've made a mistake or that
they have in fact misspoken. Generally, the proof, as they say,
is in the pudding. Today, we're going to have a
(00:47):
conversation about an ongoing case that has been in the
news now for several weeks. As a matter of fact,
at this point in time, as I'm speaking to you,
my dear friends, we don't have a body, but we do,
in this old death investigator's opinion, have some evidence that
(01:11):
we need to go. Today, we're going to talk a
little bit about Emmanuel Horror and also a sister that
some people may have forgotten. Coming to you from the
beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University. I am Joseph Scott Morgan,
(01:32):
and this is Bodybacks, Dave. Don't you love it when
people say it was a mistake. It was a mistake
that I did the sing and this scene is so
egregious that you know that it wasn't a mistake. It
was probably intentional and you can learn a lot about it.
(01:54):
I mean, there are people that do. In fact, may
I make mistakes. I have mistakes. Probably every day you
make mistakes. But sometimes things are so big and so broad.
It's like, now, you didn't make a mistake. You didn't,
you know, you didn't just kind of foul it up,
(02:15):
you know, or misspeak or whatever the case might be.
I took a wrong turn. It's not that they want
to reduce it, I think. And I got to tell
you just looking over the data in this case. And
by the way, I got to tell you, Dave mac
is one of the best producers in the business. And
(02:36):
you know why, folks that he is, because he provides
me with so much data. As a matter of fact,
sometimes feel like I'm drowning in it, which is good.
I want to drowning data. It's better to have more
than us. And you know, and just the data that
has been provided up to this point is kind of,
(02:57):
in my opinion, is kind of overwhelmingly not in favor
of a mistake when it comes to a Manuel. No,
but Dave, you had mentioned that Emmanuel has a sister
and her life, I would say, is equally as tragic,
(03:20):
and it's being played still being played out on stage
to this point.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
When you combine the stories. Okay, this one started as
a child abduction case on August fourteenth, when Rebecca Harrow
claimed she was changing seven month old Emmanuel Harrow's diaper
in front of a sporting good store when an unknown
(03:48):
man to her says oh law and knocks her out
and steals the baby and runs away. She reports it
to the sporting good store. They call nine one one,
and that's where this case began. This story fell apart
fairly quickly. There's a couple of things difficult to explain.
One is the black eye that she was on TV
with That police talked to friends, neighbors, and other people
(04:12):
who said, no, she had that black eye. I didn't
come from the assault she had that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Wait hang on one second. I'm fascinated by this one
a little bit, and I have been because I've caught
snatches of this case. I cover a lot of other stuff,
and I caught snatches of this case. And the way
it was presented to me, Dave is that she heard
somebody say oh lah, and then she's kind of struck
on the side or in the back of the head,
(04:37):
and then it's knocked unconscious. Now I'm not saying that
you couldn't be hit from the front, but most of
the time you've got a shiner on your eye. That
means that you've been impacted directly on the anti aspect
of your skull, you know, and in this case, the
orbit of the eye. Hece, you have this and when
I saw it, and I don't know how how long
(04:59):
a time it has been, this thing looks like it
was receding or reducing. It was well. I guess the
better term medically is resolving. Miss heiling terms. It just
didn't It's that part the fresh get dunk like to
high heaven.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
If you're doing an interview within twenty four hours, which
she was on TV, of your child being taken, which
I would recommend anybody whose child is abducted or missing,
get on every TV thing you can as quickly as
you can so everybody is looking okay.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I do not dismiss that.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And my problem with what her story was was that
it didn't look like a fresh black eye. I've had
a few, I've had a few bruises in my life
and that that looked like a bruise that existed for
a while. And that's why when police said they had
inconsistencies in her story, I started looking because I'm peeling
back the public story that she was telling, which she was,
you know, on a couple of different channels, telling the
(05:53):
same story. But police said there were inconsistencies. And when
they challenged on them, hey, what's up with this, she
immediately shut it down, said, that's it not talking anymore.
When parents stop working with law enforcement, that's a sign
of a problem to me. And it happened here. There
were other people who had volunteered their time their money
(06:14):
to help searching, and they too, when something's not right
and it comes back you.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Ye, good business.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
When you've got a child this fragile, and let's face it,
how do we start off? Mom is changing a diaper
in the parking lot. I mean, look, I've done it.
I can't tell you how many times I've changed diapers
in parking lots. You know, you go to get the
child out of the car and it's like, oh my goodness,
what does that smell?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know, I'm not going to take you in the store.
We're going to have change the diaper. Right now, we're
gonna put the dipper in the trash can. We're gonna
go about our business. It happens. That's not unusual, Okay.
What is unusual is that someone would tell a tale
like this and you're surrounded by CCTV. Right, you know,
we've named the sporting this there was Big five, right,
(07:03):
is that the name of it. That's something that you know,
to the best of my knowledge, we don't have in
our region. I'm sure it's something like Academy or Sports
Authority or DIX or something like that. They're going to
have surveillance and there, and it looked when I saw
the images, it kind of looks like a kind of
a strip mall kind of thing. Yeah, these other businesses
are going to have some kind of surveillance around there.
(07:27):
And the fact that and this is they didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Know and really, yeah, they didn't have surveillance of where
the car, where her car was allegedly parked. They didn't
have surveillance. And there is word that there is a rumor,
many a true thing, or said as rumor, that she
had appeared at the store two or three days earlier,
claiming her car had been robbed, had been burglarized in
(07:52):
the parking lot. I wanted to know, do you have CCC.
Do you have surveillance video that I can look at
to see who broke into my car? We don't have
surveillance video. Okay, yeah, whether that's true or not.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So the plot doesn't fit in fact, thick gravy here.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But the thing is that, Joe, what we know is
that it was all bogus. That this story does not
hold any water at all. And when you look at
the parents who they've cut off contact with police, police
say the baby's dead and they're looking for a body.
They have arrested the parents and now charged them with murder.
(08:30):
And we're talking about a seven month old Emmanuel. And
you realize that Emmanuel has an older sister. At our birth,
their name was Caroline. It has been changed since then
to promise faith. But Joe, as soon as police got
(08:51):
to look at the first child, the older child of
By the way, I do want to add, there are
other children involved here, including a two year old little
girl that is the daughter of Rebecca Horrow. I don't
know if Jake Harrow is the father of two year
old Rebecca, but Rebecca was I mean, so I apologize
(09:15):
the two year old little girl that was living with them.
I know that that two year old was removed from
the home when they started investigating in Manuel's disappearance. Okay,
but Jake Harrow has another daughter who is now seven
years old, and when she was just ten weeks old,
ten weeks old, Joe, she already had healing broken ribs
(09:43):
at ten weeks old, and a whole lot more that
I need you to explain to me. How did anybody
let this man walk among the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I don't know that that's that's the rub here, because
you know, if you look at a Manual's case and
you go back in time to this precious little girl, who,
by the way, you said, at seven, she's in a
vegetative state. Da to this day, she's still alive. She's
(10:18):
been adopted out, I think to a family member, yes,
but yet a vegetative state. And Dave, the trauma that
was inflicted upon her is almost unimaginable. It's you know,
for I think for most of us, it's unmanageable, unimaginable
(10:39):
relative to any child, regardless of the age. But Dave
were talking ten weeks old, what would drive a human being.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
To do.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
This kind of evil to a child that is has
just been born, has been born, I can't get by.
I don't know if my numbers are right, because it's hard.
I'm assuming that at ten weeks she might could roll
over by that point in time. You know, that's like
(11:12):
one of those markers that you have developmentally, and I'm
sure that's variable from child. This child is not. This
child is not up and like crawling around necessarily. The
child is certainly not holding on to things and what
do they call it cruising? That's way down the line
from this. You know what this child is doing. The
(11:33):
child is crying when they're uncomfortable. They're crying when they're
wet and they're diaper needs changing, their crying when they
need to be fed. And then the rest of the time,
guess what they do. They sleep. They sleep, and they
need to be held and caressed and loved upon daily.
(11:54):
You know, that's the price of being a parent, and
that's what you do. But David, just and please he
hear me right that the injuries that this ten week
old child sustained. You'd mentioned a healing broken rib. First off,
to break the bone of a child at this age
(12:16):
developmentally requires a tremendous amount of force.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
That's right, Joe, And that's what I'm really I'm asking
you to delve into something that is horrible because you
have explained things to me off the air about children
and bones and how difficult it is because you know,
God makes them so that they can come out of
the birth canal, and that you know it takes time
for the bones to actually become what they are later,
(12:41):
and so to break an infant's bone, to break a
ten week old baby, and again I mentioned the healing
part because we only know at ten weeks old when
she ended up in the hospital, but that they discovered
all of these other injuries that were healing that had
to have taken place in the first ten weeks of
her life. And I'm thinking, Joe, how tough is it?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
How much it's it's it's it's very difficult because you know,
the bones when if you look at it from the
idea that our bones kind of OSPHI obviously as we
get get older, they become more firm, you know. I
think that we're our development is such as infants like this,
(13:22):
so that if we do fall, you're not going to
sustain a fracture. All right, I'm not going to say
the kids bounce, But what I'm saying is like, if
I took a fall off of off of a bed
right now, there's a chance I could probably hurt my shoulder,
hurt my hip or you know, my knee or whatever
(13:43):
it is. It's amazing the type of force that a
young baby can sustain. Now it's going to be I'm
not saying it's not painful, but there's there's something to
be said about the the malleability, if you will, of
of the skeletal struct of a child. So when you think, well,
this child is in a state of healing post fracture.
(14:07):
And we're not just talking about a single rib fracture, Dave,
We're talking about multiple injuries. This child, Oh lord, I
hate to even say this. She had both healing fractures
and then she had acute fractures, and acute means immediate,
which means that's something that's recent. So that's an indication
(14:31):
perhaps of ongoing and dwelling abuse. All right, then she's
got a skull fracture, David. Let me give you an example.
And you know, for those of you with sensitive ears,
be forewarned here because in the morgue. Did you know
that when we do autopsies on little kids like this
(14:52):
that have you ever seen in television shows where we
use what's called a striker saw, which is a striker saws,
a bone saw. Okay, there's no need to use us all, Okay,
we don't have to use it. And when it comes
to the skull, we actually can open the skull with
(15:13):
a pair of scissors. That's how that's how soft the
bone is. And you know, you still have the fontenails.
There's an antior fontenail, which is you know, the one
that people most often think about that's on the front,
you know, otherwise known as a soft spot. That's where
the skull is kind of all the plates of the
skull are moving together and are fusing up there. And
(15:34):
you've got a post heior fintenel as well, and there
are other ones about the body, but these are the
two primary areas where they're kind of closing up I
say about the body. About the skull, there's softer areas,
you know, where the skulls are. The skulls are the
plates of the skull are kind of fusing. You've got
the frontal bone bridle and the temporal and the acceptal
(15:54):
and all of that. So they're very, very soft. And
the fact that the skull is in fact fractured is
mind blowing to me because the amount of force that
it would take in order to do this is is
(16:16):
almost I'm not gonna say it's unmeasurable, because I guess
that would be. However, she's got fractures in multiple locations. Okay,
just because you have a fractured rib doesn't mean you're
going to have a fractured skull. Generally, fractures happen at
(16:38):
points of impact. Okay, so if you're free falling through
space and you impact on your head, all right, it's
understandable you could have a skull fracture. I'm talking about
an adult here, But how are you going to sustain
both acute and healing fractures of the ribs? Those two things,
(17:00):
they they don't match up. There's a brain hemorrhage, You've
got swelling in the neck. Oh and by the bye,
there's a healing leg fracture. So now you've got this
kind of connected dot thing. Anatomically you cannot sustain. You
(17:25):
cannot sustain these types of injuries from a single event.
Maybe you could if you were in a car accident
something that you know, had you flying through space at
a high velocity, high velocity relative to as fast as
a human being can travel through through space. I don't
(17:47):
see how this could happen. And then on top of it,
they identified in Caroline nutritional deficit as well. That's deprivation,
and of course that doesn't aid the healing of injuries.
As a matter of fact, it detracts from it. Deve,
(18:21):
you introduced me to an article and I was reading
through it, and the prosecutor that's involved with a manual
horror's disappearance. First off, they suspect that he's dead. All right,
we'll go ahead and plainly say that. But one of
the interesting comments he made relative to this little girl
(18:45):
is fact that he said, well, he starts pointing the
finger at the judge in her case. Because refresh my memory, Dave,
is this accurate that this father of this little girl
did what thirty thirty days in county I think? And
(19:07):
then he's put on probation for how long?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
It's one hundred and eighty days in county.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
In Okay, So a drop in the bucket and he
didn't the DA say that if this guy, well, first off,
you said this guy should be in prison as a
result of that. And I guess if you follow that
logic to its conclusion, if he had been in prison,
(19:33):
Emmanuel will still be here. And he could not understand
the formula that the judge was using when the sentence
was handed down.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
You know, I don't know. I don't know what mathematical
thing they use, and they being judges. I know that
state by state, county by county crimes are dealt with differently.
I don't know how any other adult human being on
(20:05):
the face of this earth can look at a ten
week old child that has been beaten within an inch
of their life now has permanently been scarred, and will never.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Get out of a vegetative state.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
How you can look at the person who did it
and allow them outside of a cell.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I don't know how you can.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I don't either. As a matter of fact, if there was,
if there was an individual similar to this that had
made a decision similar to this, I would not trust
that person with my dog well, I mean it all,
to make any kind of decision, because I think that
the fact that what you're saying is is that any
(20:46):
other children that might be in proximity to a subject
such as Emmanuel Harrow's father, the needs of public safety
do not outweigh the needs of this individual will still
be roaming around the streets and having access to children. Period. Yeah,
(21:08):
you know, I mean this is this is to me. Look,
you can't compare the two. Just let me say this.
If you're a convicted sex offender, you can't even live
within within I don't know certain number of feet or
yards of a schoolhouse or you know, a library or
all these other things. You're talking about somebody that is
(21:31):
apparently found guilty, that is adjudicated guilty, guilty for inflicting
serious bodily harm that this child will never recover from
child child's blind Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well this is what the Riverside prosecutor said. Okay, what
we wanted out of the case was prison. We believed
it was a prison case and that Jake Harrow should
have gone to prison. Jake Harrow pled straight up to
the court in this case. Judge here in Riverside County,
who happened to have been a visiting judge from sam
Bernardino County, gave mister Harrow a suspended sentence. See, they're
(22:09):
trying to indicate where this, what happened and how, And
he says the child abuse case began with Jake Harrow's
arrest in twenty eighteen, involving his ex wife and another
child who was ten weeks old. Anyway, the judge, and
this is what the DA says. The DA who's prosecuting
the current case. Thankfully hestrin. His name's Michael Hestern. I believe,
(22:33):
he says. The judge essentially chose to give Jake Harrow
a probation, which he described as an outrageous, you know,
error in judgment. I don't call that an error in judgment.
You mentioned this earlier about my bad you know, it's
that kind of thing. I'm sorry he made a mistake.
I just say, a mistake. Man, This is not an
error in judgment. How does a human, how does an
adult look at this and call this an air in judgment.
(22:57):
It's not an air in judgment. It's a judge not
doing their h to protect society from somebody who would
hurt the least of these happened to be his ten
year old daughter, who, based on the healing wound she
suffered the healing broken bones. They proved had endured a
lifetime of abuse up to the moment that she was
(23:18):
finally taken away from him. When she was individual, you
could no longer be.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
What she could be. I don't understand that.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I know, yeah, you know. It is not an error.
It is certainly not. And don't I don't know how
you get past that really in this particular case. Look,
an abuser is going to abuse, all right, That's what
they do. And they don't shift off of that, by
(23:48):
the way, from being a child abuser. All right, there's
no redemption, there's no turning back if they have anger
issues or whatever is, and there is, As you say,
I love the fact to use the least among us,
they're going to continue to abuse them and abuse a
(24:08):
child over and over and over again. And I got
to tell you, in forensics, that's what we would call
a clue because if you have this body of evidence
relative to this child and now, Dave, we have this
other sweet little boy that they're saying is deceased. I mean,
(24:29):
that's what they're saying. They believe him to be dead,
and Lord have mercy. I'm offering up prayers right now.
I hope that he is alive out there somewhere. I
truly do. But I got to tell you, man, you know,
it's like Eddie Murphy. You say, give him an inch
to take a mile, give him a rope to think
they're cowboy. And in this particular case, you know, you
(24:52):
allow him to get away with this. And now and
now you've got a child who is presumed dead, and
they still the horror of this is that they still
haven't found his remains anywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Dave Well, can I add a couple of things here
very quickly?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
One we actually had in covering this story this week,
we had a rumored that not a rumor. We had
a report that Jake Harrow had confessed to killing the baby,
that he rolled over on him in his sleep, and
they then disposed of the child's body in a trash bag.
(25:33):
That was the story that came out this week. Then
it was backed up by a further report about the
police injecting an undercover officer into the cell with Jake
Harrow to get more information, where he allegedly told the
undercover more information about killing his son. Now we are
told that that did not take place. This was reported
(25:56):
as a real thing, and we did. We reported this
across all platforms that Jake Harrow had confessed, police saying
he did not confess. That's vague news. And the reason
that's so frustrating is that I don't know where that
came from, whoever said it, And there's got to be
(26:17):
some accountability.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
But let me tell you why there has to be accountability,
because you let that slip out, You let that slip
out into the public discourse, and suddenly this search that
you have going on, many people search because they're motivated
by the fact as well they should be, that a
child is out there and missing and presumed alive, right, okay,
(26:40):
So all of a sudden you have that energy is
now gone from that search, okay, and now they have
fewer eyes on the case just from the public citizenry,
you know, where they're feeling motivated, they want to get
out there, they want to help, and then you find
(27:01):
out that this is in fact a lie. You're damn right.
There ought to be accountability whoever said this. And you know,
I got to tell you this is a thread that's
coming up over and over again a lot of the
stories that Idaho, most recently the Montak case up in
Long Island where they were saying, somebody actually released the
(27:23):
information that there was cocaine powder found in the salon
on the sofa in there, and it was fingerprint powder.
So I don't know where these people are getting information
like this, but this can be quite damning with an
and particularly this is an ongoing investigation into a child
that is currently missing and not accounted for. So whoever
(27:47):
in the world did this did a great disservice to
everybody that's invested. And I can guarantee you these law enforcement,
the fire and rescue people, the volunteers, they're invested. Man,
they want to find this little boy. And something has arisen,
Something has arisen that has come to the attention of
the DA. Because there is no DA worth their salt
(28:13):
that would stand before a bank of microphones and give
a public statement saying that a Manuel is no longer
a lie. So Dave, right now as we're speaking, there
(28:41):
are people combing the countryside out there looking for a manual.
And interestingly enough, a Manuel translates into God is with us,
and I hope God is with them, looking out and
you know, protecting them and guarding them and guiding their
foot steps. Along this way because this is going to
(29:02):
be key. And again, I hope he's alive. I truly do, Joe.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
What would you expect to see in a seven month
old at this stage? We don't know other than what
we've been told by the family that we know is
all alive. But police said that we believe that he
could have been killed as early as August fifth, between
then and the time he's reported missing. So what would
be if we were to find the child? Now, let's
(29:28):
say Emmanuel had been killed on the fifth of the sixth,
and let's just say he was placed in a trash
bag and thrown away. If they were able to locate
the baby, if they were able to locate his body,
what condition would it be, And if it was just
placed in a trash bag and thrown out with the trash,
(29:48):
what are we talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
The composition modern state of decomposition in a trash bag
in particular, if that if that is the case, and boy,
that's Dave. That's really specific, isn't it. It's not like
somebody said, well, he was placed in the woods, or
he was rolled down a hill. Somebody came up with it.
That's very specific. Placed in a trash bag, and I
(30:11):
guess placed in the trash dependent upon how the bag
or the conveyance is handled. Let's just say that, Lord,
I hate say this, but let's just say that he
is he has been placed into His remains have been
placed within a trash bag into a public receptacle, and
(30:32):
that is going to be taken by a trash truck
and dumped in a landfill. Well, now you have this
really complex event that begins to take place because you're
in First off, the body is in a bag, so
that means the body is sweating as it's decomposing. It's
sweating that's going to prompt further or accelerated decomposition. He's
(30:56):
going into a very aerobic environment if it's a landfall ill,
which means all the other nasties that are in dwelling
out there are going to begin to attack his remains.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't attack his remains in
some other location, however, Uh, this is multiplied when you
(31:16):
go to a landfill, and that that's the only thing
that's really come to mind right now. But you know,
you've got a mom who sounds like if we are
to believe what she said, and this is fascinating. Did
you see somebody, what was it hit my car or
whatever it was three days earlier?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Do you have CCTV somebody in my car?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, somebody broke into my car. It's almost, David, it's
almost like she's prime in the pump at that point
in time.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You know, I have cares.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, I mean, you know, if you're she's in the
military and she's conducting operation uh, this is a point
of observation here, she's doing her job right. Well, that
means that there's some intent, maybe premeditative thing that's going
on here. Maybe she has the body. Yeah, at this
point in time, they're trying to decide. They're panicking, what
(32:06):
do I do with the body? Because ups, Daddy's done
it again, only this time, remember harming to Montgomery. Well,
I think I really heard her this time. You know,
after that piece of garbage hit that child and she
quote unquote went to sleep. Was she died in the
backseat of that Chrysler seavering in the freezing cold, and
(32:27):
he put her in a bag and then carted her
all over the place, stored her in vents up in
the ceiling, took her to work, I've just about had
enough at this point, Dave, I tell you they've gotten
one the last nerve, because these stories keep coming up
like this, and you know these babies are being treated
like garbage. I know it's gone on forever, but it's
(32:49):
just amplified for some reason. In this particular case. You
think about a manual with his remains, where are they
is it going to be possible to track? Are they
looking at his digital footprint at this point? Are they
looking at her digital footprint? The fact the fact that
(33:09):
the DA has made this kind of definitive comment at
this time tells me that they've got something else. And
when you look at child abuse, okay, one of the
primary things that comes up with child abuse cases is
abusers will do things like doctor shopping, so they'll strike
(33:34):
a kid. Kid is severely injured. They take the kid
to a dock in a box somewhere, or maybe to
an emergency room. Kid gets treated and the abuser says, yay,
you know, he was climbing up in the tree or
he fell down staircase. Doctor treats him. Injuries begin to resolve.
(33:56):
Remember we heard about resolving injuries in the ten week old.
All right, injuries begin to resolve, abuser loses their cool again,
strikes the child again, maybe this time partially chokes the
child out. Now we're back to doctor shopping. We can't
go back to the same physician. We've got to go
to another one, all right. So I want to know
(34:18):
if they've gotten their hands on any kind of medical
records here yet, because sometimes that's the big reveal in
child abuse cases. Was there somebody else that saw something
that no one is aware of yet and they've told
the police have told that witness be quiet. We're going
to use your information, but we need you to be
quiet at this moment, Tom please, We're begging you. Okay,
(34:41):
maybe they saw something, maybe they saw the child being
struck or whatever the case might be.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
But police said that they believe they know where Emmanuel is.
And the fact that they say we believe we know
where he is but they have not retrieved his body
is very telling. Indicates to me that it could be
a landfill, and we know landfills are gritted, which again
(35:07):
goes back to decomp What are we really looking at?
Is there a big difference between five days in eight days,
four days and nine days?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah? Well yeah, And it's a it's a steady progression.
It never that's the thing about it. Once it starts it,
you don't retard it in any way. It's it's not
it's not ceasing it. You know, biology continues to creep on.
It's you know, it's you can't stem it in any way.
(35:41):
You know. You say, well, you can put a body
in a cooler and it will possibly retard the progression
of decomposition. But spacey's not a cooler, all right, it's somewhere.
This body is somewhere exposed to the element. So, going
back to what I said previously, if if body is
in a landfill, this progression is going to speed up
(36:05):
because of this hostile environment that the body would be in.
And yet there's going to be a heck of a
lot of difference. And here's another thing. In landfills, you
have this this specter of heavy equipment. And with the
heavy equipment, one of the things that has to happen
(36:27):
is that you know, we talk about grids in landfills,
and the people that operate these things know exactly where
things are going to be deposited, and they don't keep
redepositing in those locations. They deposit, they fill whatever their
quote is for that space in square yards or square
meters or whatever it is. Then they move to the
(36:47):
next grid. Well, in the meantime, you've got heavy equipment
that runs back and forth over the top. You've ever
seen those those steel wheeled big pieces of equipment, usually
looks like at a pillar. They've got these large spikes
on the on. They're not tires, they're actually wheels, and
(37:08):
so they're kind of churning this thing and pressing it down,
so it stratifies it. It presses it down, it stratifies it,
and then you come back if it's time for that
grid again, you put more trash on top of it.
That's why of these things are so daunting. Not to mention,
you've got animal activity in these locations. You've got insect activity.
I'm talking about big animals you know, can get in there,
(37:30):
and then you have in you know, if you've got
the remains of a you know, a decomposing child, it
gets really horrific, really really quickly. And this is this
is one of the concerns, and I think that the
police have expressed this already. You're going to have to
have a to really nail this thing down from proscutorial standpoint,
(37:56):
You're going to have to have a cause of death.
You know, you we hear a lot about the user
terminal's term, Dave nonspecific comicidal trauma. You'll hear that a lot.
But it's going to be really important to try to
demonstrate this, and the longer a body is decomposing, the
(38:18):
more difficult that becomes. Well, first off, I hope he's
not decomposing. I hope that I would rather have seen
him picked up by somebody and they're holding him safely
and providing for him than any of the stuff that
we're talking about. But right now, given history that you
know we've been discussing, I'm not real hopeful at this
(38:42):
point in Tom Dave.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
You know, Joe, if okay, if Emmanuel Harrow is found,
if that's then unless if he has found deceased, are
they being law enforcement? Are they going to be able
to prove that his death was caused at the hands
of his parents because her story is that I was hit,
(39:06):
he was snatched. Well, their argument could be he was
snatched when the bad guys saw it covered on TV,
they killed him and threw them in. You know, they
did that the bad guys did it. I'm the victim.
My baby was stolen from me. How do you approve
you've got his You have this seven month old baby
(39:27):
who's dad. How do you approve that they're the ones
that killed him?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Again, That's how digital evidence is going to play into this,
because it's not just going to be the phone's pinging
in various locations. It's also going to be CCTV. You're
going to have to go back to that central point
where they're domiciled, and if they're CCTV available in those locations,
you have to go back to the last time he
was known to be alive and gather all of that
(39:52):
footage that you possibly can and have somebody work their
way through it so that they can see these vehicles
where they're going, they're comings and goings. And I think,
if I'm not mistaken, California has license plate readers out
there as well. If they're passing by those cameras, how
many times do they hit on the camera? You know,
(40:13):
where are they're going, where they're up to And then
of course you got the phone pinging as well. That's
what it's going to come down to, you know, And
if and when they find his remains, can you place
their vehicle or even them at that site in particular?
And also is this a site that they're familiar with? Now?
The red herring here is if it does turn out
(40:36):
where this baby has been a homicide victim, they place
him in a bag and he's placed into a trash receptacle,
then the parents are probably not prone to go to
a landfill. The truck goes to a landfill, but then
you track the truck, what truck was running on these days,
(41:00):
and did they pick up from trash bins that these
individuals may have had access to. It's highly complex, and
it's not just going to be the one thing. It's
going to be a combination of multiple things that's going
to bring this thing to a resolution. And I hope,
you know, look, it's kind of rote to say this.
(41:22):
I hope it is in fact sooner than later, because
right now, I mean, people have lots of questions and
no answers at all. It seems as though to me,
at least, that the police have more information than they're
letting on. And I'm glad that they do, and I
hope that they don't let it out. I truly am
until they can, in fact, they can in fact find
(41:46):
his remains, take them and have them examined thoroughly, and
I mean thoroughly, and document everything I can. And you're
going to have to have a skilled forensic pathologist that
can delineate, like you said, from post mortem changes and
anti mortem trauma. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
(42:14):
Bodybacks
Quody tis, but Joseph Scott More.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Whenever people say that they have made a mistake or
that they have misspoken, I almost kind of leaning because
I don't always believe that people make mistakes, because as
(00:26):
we've found out, people intentionally do bad things, but they
want you to think they've made a mistake or that
they have in fact misspoken. Generally, the proof, as they say,
is in the pudding. Today, we're going to have a
(00:47):
conversation about an ongoing case that has been in the
news now for several weeks. As a matter of fact,
at this point in time, as I'm speaking to you,
my dear friends, we don't have a body, but we do,
in this old death investigator's opinion, have some evidence that
(01:11):
we need to go. Today, we're going to talk a
little bit about Emmanuel Horror and also a sister that
some people may have forgotten. Coming to you from the
beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University. I am Joseph Scott Morgan,
(01:32):
and this is Bodybacks, Dave. Don't you love it when
people say it was a mistake. It was a mistake
that I did the sing and this scene is so
egregious that you know that it wasn't a mistake. It
was probably intentional and you can learn a lot about it.
(01:54):
I mean, there are people that do. In fact, may
I make mistakes. I have mistakes. Probably every day you
make mistakes. But sometimes things are so big and so broad.
It's like, now, you didn't make a mistake. You didn't,
you know, you didn't just kind of foul it up,
(02:15):
you know, or misspeak or whatever the case might be.
I took a wrong turn. It's not that they want
to reduce it, I think. And I got to tell
you just looking over the data in this case. And
by the way, I got to tell you, Dave mac
is one of the best producers in the business. And
(02:36):
you know why, folks that he is, because he provides
me with so much data. As a matter of fact,
sometimes feel like I'm drowning in it, which is good.
I want to drowning data. It's better to have more
than us. And you know, and just the data that
has been provided up to this point is kind of,
(02:57):
in my opinion, is kind of overwhelmingly not in favor
of a mistake when it comes to a Manuel. No,
but Dave, you had mentioned that Emmanuel has a sister
and her life, I would say, is equally as tragic,
(03:20):
and it's being played still being played out on stage
to this point.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
When you combine the stories. Okay, this one started as
a child abduction case on August fourteenth, when Rebecca Harrow
claimed she was changing seven month old Emmanuel Harrow's diaper
in front of a sporting good store when an unknown
(03:48):
man to her says oh law and knocks her out
and steals the baby and runs away. She reports it
to the sporting good store. They call nine one one,
and that's where this case began. This story fell apart
fairly quickly. There's a couple of things difficult to explain.
One is the black eye that she was on TV
with That police talked to friends, neighbors, and other people
(04:12):
who said, no, she had that black eye. I didn't
come from the assault she had that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Wait hang on one second. I'm fascinated by this one
a little bit, and I have been because I've caught
snatches of this case. I cover a lot of other stuff,
and I caught snatches of this case. And the way
it was presented to me, Dave is that she heard
somebody say oh lah, and then she's kind of struck
on the side or in the back of the head,
(04:37):
and then it's knocked unconscious. Now I'm not saying that
you couldn't be hit from the front, but most of
the time you've got a shiner on your eye. That
means that you've been impacted directly on the anti aspect
of your skull, you know, and in this case, the
orbit of the eye. Hece, you have this and when
I saw it, and I don't know how how long
(04:59):
a time it has been, this thing looks like it
was receding or reducing. It was well. I guess the
better term medically is resolving. Miss heiling terms. It just
didn't It's that part the fresh get dunk like to
high heaven.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
If you're doing an interview within twenty four hours, which
she was on TV, of your child being taken, which
I would recommend anybody whose child is abducted or missing,
get on every TV thing you can as quickly as
you can so everybody is looking okay.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I do not dismiss that.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
And my problem with what her story was was that
it didn't look like a fresh black eye. I've had
a few, I've had a few bruises in my life
and that that looked like a bruise that existed for
a while. And that's why when police said they had
inconsistencies in her story, I started looking because I'm peeling
back the public story that she was telling, which she was,
you know, on a couple of different channels, telling the
(05:53):
same story. But police said there were inconsistencies. And when
they challenged on them, hey, what's up with this, she
immediately shut it down, said, that's it not talking anymore.
When parents stop working with law enforcement, that's a sign
of a problem to me. And it happened here. There
were other people who had volunteered their time their money
(06:14):
to help searching, and they too, when something's not right
and it comes back you.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Ye, good business.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
When you've got a child this fragile, and let's face it,
how do we start off? Mom is changing a diaper
in the parking lot. I mean, look, I've done it.
I can't tell you how many times I've changed diapers
in parking lots. You know, you go to get the
child out of the car and it's like, oh my goodness,
what does that smell?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know, I'm not going to take you in the store.
We're going to have change the diaper. Right now, we're
gonna put the dipper in the trash can. We're gonna
go about our business. It happens. That's not unusual, Okay.
What is unusual is that someone would tell a tale
like this and you're surrounded by CCTV. Right, you know,
we've named the sporting this there was Big five, right,
(07:03):
is that the name of it. That's something that you know,
to the best of my knowledge, we don't have in
our region. I'm sure it's something like Academy or Sports
Authority or DIX or something like that. They're going to
have surveillance and there, and it looked when I saw
the images, it kind of looks like a kind of
a strip mall kind of thing. Yeah, these other businesses
are going to have some kind of surveillance around there.
(07:27):
And the fact that and this is they didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Know and really, yeah, they didn't have surveillance of where
the car, where her car was allegedly parked. They didn't
have surveillance. And there is word that there is a rumor,
many a true thing, or said as rumor, that she
had appeared at the store two or three days earlier,
claiming her car had been robbed, had been burglarized in
(07:52):
the parking lot. I wanted to know, do you have CCC.
Do you have surveillance video that I can look at
to see who broke into my car? We don't have
surveillance video. Okay, yeah, whether that's true or not.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So the plot doesn't fit in fact, thick gravy here.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But the thing is that, Joe, what we know is
that it was all bogus. That this story does not
hold any water at all. And when you look at
the parents who they've cut off contact with police, police
say the baby's dead and they're looking for a body.
They have arrested the parents and now charged them with murder.
(08:30):
And we're talking about a seven month old Emmanuel. And
you realize that Emmanuel has an older sister. At our birth,
their name was Caroline. It has been changed since then
to promise faith. But Joe, as soon as police got
(08:51):
to look at the first child, the older child of
By the way, I do want to add, there are
other children involved here, including a two year old little
girl that is the daughter of Rebecca Horrow. I don't
know if Jake Harrow is the father of two year
old Rebecca, but Rebecca was I mean, so I apologize
(09:15):
the two year old little girl that was living with them.
I know that that two year old was removed from
the home when they started investigating in Manuel's disappearance. Okay,
but Jake Harrow has another daughter who is now seven
years old, and when she was just ten weeks old,
ten weeks old, Joe, she already had healing broken ribs
(09:43):
at ten weeks old, and a whole lot more that
I need you to explain to me. How did anybody
let this man walk among the rest of us.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I don't know that that's that's the rub here, because
you know, if you look at a Manual's case and
you go back in time to this precious little girl, who,
by the way, you said, at seven, she's in a
vegetative state. Da to this day, she's still alive. She's
(10:18):
been adopted out, I think to a family member, yes,
but yet a vegetative state. And Dave, the trauma that
was inflicted upon her is almost unimaginable. It's you know,
for I think for most of us, it's unmanageable, unimaginable
(10:39):
relative to any child, regardless of the age. But Dave
were talking ten weeks old, what would drive a human being.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
To do.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
This kind of evil to a child that is has
just been born, has been born, I can't get by.
I don't know if my numbers are right, because it's hard.
I'm assuming that at ten weeks she might could roll
over by that point in time. You know, that's like
(11:12):
one of those markers that you have developmentally, and I'm
sure that's variable from child. This child is not. This
child is not up and like crawling around necessarily. The
child is certainly not holding on to things and what
do they call it cruising? That's way down the line
from this. You know what this child is doing. The
(11:33):
child is crying when they're uncomfortable. They're crying when they're
wet and they're diaper needs changing, their crying when they
need to be fed. And then the rest of the time,
guess what they do. They sleep. They sleep, and they
need to be held and caressed and loved upon daily.
(11:54):
You know, that's the price of being a parent, and
that's what you do. But David, just and please he
hear me right that the injuries that this ten week
old child sustained. You'd mentioned a healing broken rib. First off,
to break the bone of a child at this age
(12:16):
developmentally requires a tremendous amount of force.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
That's right, Joe, And that's what I'm really I'm asking
you to delve into something that is horrible because you
have explained things to me off the air about children
and bones and how difficult it is because you know,
God makes them so that they can come out of
the birth canal, and that you know it takes time
for the bones to actually become what they are later,
(12:41):
and so to break an infant's bone, to break a
ten week old baby, and again I mentioned the healing
part because we only know at ten weeks old when
she ended up in the hospital, but that they discovered
all of these other injuries that were healing that had
to have taken place in the first ten weeks of
her life. And I'm thinking, Joe, how tough is it?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
How much it's it's it's it's very difficult because you know,
the bones when if you look at it from the
idea that our bones kind of OSPHI obviously as we
get get older, they become more firm, you know. I
think that we're our development is such as infants like this,
(13:22):
so that if we do fall, you're not going to
sustain a fracture. All right, I'm not going to say
the kids bounce, But what I'm saying is like, if
I took a fall off of off of a bed
right now, there's a chance I could probably hurt my shoulder,
hurt my hip or you know, my knee or whatever
(13:43):
it is. It's amazing the type of force that a
young baby can sustain. Now it's going to be I'm
not saying it's not painful, but there's there's something to
be said about the the malleability, if you will, of
of the skeletal struct of a child. So when you think, well,
this child is in a state of healing post fracture.
(14:07):
And we're not just talking about a single rib fracture, Dave,
We're talking about multiple injuries. This child, Oh lord, I
hate to even say this. She had both healing fractures
and then she had acute fractures, and acute means immediate,
which means that's something that's recent. So that's an indication
(14:31):
perhaps of ongoing and dwelling abuse. All right, then she's
got a skull fracture, David. Let me give you an example.
And you know, for those of you with sensitive ears,
be forewarned here because in the morgue. Did you know
that when we do autopsies on little kids like this
(14:52):
that have you ever seen in television shows where we
use what's called a striker saw, which is a striker saws,
a bone saw. Okay, there's no need to use us all, Okay,
we don't have to use it. And when it comes
to the skull, we actually can open the skull with
(15:13):
a pair of scissors. That's how that's how soft the
bone is. And you know, you still have the fontenails.
There's an antior fontenail, which is you know, the one
that people most often think about that's on the front,
you know, otherwise known as a soft spot. That's where
the skull is kind of all the plates of the
skull are moving together and are fusing up there. And
(15:34):
you've got a post heior fintenel as well, and there
are other ones about the body, but these are the
two primary areas where they're kind of closing up I
say about the body. About the skull, there's softer areas,
you know, where the skulls are. The skulls are the
plates of the skull are kind of fusing. You've got
the frontal bone bridle and the temporal and the acceptal
(15:54):
and all of that. So they're very, very soft. And
the fact that the skull is in fact fractured is
mind blowing to me because the amount of force that
it would take in order to do this is is
(16:16):
almost I'm not gonna say it's unmeasurable, because I guess
that would be. However, she's got fractures in multiple locations. Okay,
just because you have a fractured rib doesn't mean you're
going to have a fractured skull. Generally, fractures happen at
(16:38):
points of impact. Okay, so if you're free falling through
space and you impact on your head, all right, it's
understandable you could have a skull fracture. I'm talking about
an adult here, But how are you going to sustain
both acute and healing fractures of the ribs? Those two things,
(17:00):
they they don't match up. There's a brain hemorrhage, You've
got swelling in the neck. Oh and by the bye,
there's a healing leg fracture. So now you've got this
kind of connected dot thing. Anatomically you cannot sustain. You
(17:25):
cannot sustain these types of injuries from a single event.
Maybe you could if you were in a car accident
something that you know, had you flying through space at
a high velocity, high velocity relative to as fast as
a human being can travel through through space. I don't
(17:47):
see how this could happen. And then on top of it,
they identified in Caroline nutritional deficit as well. That's deprivation,
and of course that doesn't aid the healing of injuries.
As a matter of fact, it detracts from it. Deve,
(18:21):
you introduced me to an article and I was reading
through it, and the prosecutor that's involved with a manual
horror's disappearance. First off, they suspect that he's dead. All right,
we'll go ahead and plainly say that. But one of
the interesting comments he made relative to this little girl
(18:45):
is fact that he said, well, he starts pointing the
finger at the judge in her case. Because refresh my memory, Dave,
is this accurate that this father of this little girl
did what thirty thirty days in county I think? And
(19:07):
then he's put on probation for how long?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
It's one hundred and eighty days in county.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
In Okay, So a drop in the bucket and he
didn't the DA say that if this guy, well, first off,
you said this guy should be in prison as a
result of that. And I guess if you follow that
logic to its conclusion, if he had been in prison,
(19:33):
Emmanuel will still be here. And he could not understand
the formula that the judge was using when the sentence
was handed down.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
You know, I don't know. I don't know what mathematical
thing they use, and they being judges. I know that
state by state, county by county crimes are dealt with differently.
I don't know how any other adult human being on
(20:05):
the face of this earth can look at a ten
week old child that has been beaten within an inch
of their life now has permanently been scarred, and will never.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Get out of a vegetative state.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
How you can look at the person who did it
and allow them outside of a cell.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I don't know how you can.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I don't either. As a matter of fact, if there was,
if there was an individual similar to this that had
made a decision similar to this, I would not trust
that person with my dog well, I mean it all,
to make any kind of decision, because I think that
the fact that what you're saying is is that any
(20:46):
other children that might be in proximity to a subject
such as Emmanuel Harrow's father, the needs of public safety
do not outweigh the needs of this individual will still
be roaming around the streets and having access to children. Period. Yeah,
(21:08):
you know, I mean this is this is to me. Look,
you can't compare the two. Just let me say this.
If you're a convicted sex offender, you can't even live
within within I don't know certain number of feet or
yards of a schoolhouse or you know, a library or
all these other things. You're talking about somebody that is
(21:31):
apparently found guilty, that is adjudicated guilty, guilty for inflicting
serious bodily harm that this child will never recover from
child child's blind Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Well this is what the Riverside prosecutor said. Okay, what
we wanted out of the case was prison. We believed
it was a prison case and that Jake Harrow should
have gone to prison. Jake Harrow pled straight up to
the court in this case. Judge here in Riverside County,
who happened to have been a visiting judge from sam
Bernardino County, gave mister Harrow a suspended sentence. See, they're
(22:09):
trying to indicate where this, what happened and how, And
he says the child abuse case began with Jake Harrow's
arrest in twenty eighteen, involving his ex wife and another
child who was ten weeks old. Anyway, the judge, and
this is what the DA says. The DA who's prosecuting
the current case. Thankfully hestrin. His name's Michael Hestern. I believe,
(22:33):
he says. The judge essentially chose to give Jake Harrow
a probation, which he described as an outrageous, you know,
error in judgment. I don't call that an error in judgment.
You mentioned this earlier about my bad you know, it's
that kind of thing. I'm sorry he made a mistake.
I just say, a mistake. Man, This is not an
error in judgment. How does a human, how does an
adult look at this and call this an air in judgment.
(22:57):
It's not an air in judgment. It's a judge not
doing their h to protect society from somebody who would
hurt the least of these happened to be his ten
year old daughter, who, based on the healing wound she
suffered the healing broken bones. They proved had endured a
lifetime of abuse up to the moment that she was
(23:18):
finally taken away from him. When she was individual, you
could no longer be.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
What she could be. I don't understand that.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I know, yeah, you know. It is not an error.
It is certainly not. And don't I don't know how
you get past that really in this particular case. Look,
an abuser is going to abuse, all right, That's what
they do. And they don't shift off of that, by
(23:48):
the way, from being a child abuser. All right, there's
no redemption, there's no turning back if they have anger
issues or whatever is, and there is, As you say,
I love the fact to use the least among us,
they're going to continue to abuse them and abuse a
(24:08):
child over and over and over again. And I got
to tell you, in forensics, that's what we would call
a clue because if you have this body of evidence
relative to this child and now, Dave, we have this
other sweet little boy that they're saying is deceased. I mean,
(24:29):
that's what they're saying. They believe him to be dead,
and Lord have mercy. I'm offering up prayers right now.
I hope that he is alive out there somewhere. I
truly do. But I got to tell you, man, you know,
it's like Eddie Murphy. You say, give him an inch
to take a mile, give him a rope to think
they're cowboy. And in this particular case, you know, you
(24:52):
allow him to get away with this. And now and
now you've got a child who is presumed dead, and
they still the horror of this is that they still
haven't found his remains anywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Dave Well, can I add a couple of things here
very quickly?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
One we actually had in covering this story this week,
we had a rumored that not a rumor. We had
a report that Jake Harrow had confessed to killing the baby,
that he rolled over on him in his sleep, and
they then disposed of the child's body in a trash bag.
(25:33):
That was the story that came out this week. Then
it was backed up by a further report about the
police injecting an undercover officer into the cell with Jake
Harrow to get more information, where he allegedly told the
undercover more information about killing his son. Now we are
told that that did not take place. This was reported
(25:56):
as a real thing, and we did. We reported this
across all platforms that Jake Harrow had confessed, police saying
he did not confess. That's vague news. And the reason
that's so frustrating is that I don't know where that
came from, whoever said it, And there's got to be
(26:17):
some accountability.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
But let me tell you why there has to be accountability,
because you let that slip out, You let that slip
out into the public discourse, and suddenly this search that
you have going on, many people search because they're motivated
by the fact as well they should be, that a
child is out there and missing and presumed alive, right, okay,
(26:40):
So all of a sudden you have that energy is
now gone from that search, okay, and now they have
fewer eyes on the case just from the public citizenry,
you know, where they're feeling motivated, they want to get
out there, they want to help, and then you find
(27:01):
out that this is in fact a lie. You're damn right.
There ought to be accountability whoever said this. And you know,
I got to tell you this is a thread that's
coming up over and over again a lot of the
stories that Idaho, most recently the Montak case up in
Long Island where they were saying, somebody actually released the
(27:23):
information that there was cocaine powder found in the salon
on the sofa in there, and it was fingerprint powder.
So I don't know where these people are getting information
like this, but this can be quite damning with an
and particularly this is an ongoing investigation into a child
that is currently missing and not accounted for. So whoever
(27:47):
in the world did this did a great disservice to
everybody that's invested. And I can guarantee you these law enforcement,
the fire and rescue people, the volunteers, they're invested. Man,
they want to find this little boy. And something has arisen,
Something has arisen that has come to the attention of
the DA. Because there is no DA worth their salt
(28:13):
that would stand before a bank of microphones and give
a public statement saying that a Manuel is no longer
a lie. So Dave, right now as we're speaking, there
(28:41):
are people combing the countryside out there looking for a manual.
And interestingly enough, a Manuel translates into God is with us,
and I hope God is with them, looking out and
you know, protecting them and guarding them and guiding their
foot steps. Along this way because this is going to
(29:02):
be key. And again, I hope he's alive. I truly do, Joe.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
What would you expect to see in a seven month
old at this stage? We don't know other than what
we've been told by the family that we know is
all alive. But police said that we believe that he
could have been killed as early as August fifth, between
then and the time he's reported missing. So what would
be if we were to find the child? Now, let's
(29:28):
say Emmanuel had been killed on the fifth of the sixth,
and let's just say he was placed in a trash
bag and thrown away. If they were able to locate
the baby, if they were able to locate his body,
what condition would it be, And if it was just
placed in a trash bag and thrown out with the trash,
(29:48):
what are we talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
The composition modern state of decomposition in a trash bag
in particular, if that if that is the case, and boy,
that's Dave. That's really specific, isn't it. It's not like
somebody said, well, he was placed in the woods, or
he was rolled down a hill. Somebody came up with it.
That's very specific. Placed in a trash bag, and I
(30:11):
guess placed in the trash dependent upon how the bag
or the conveyance is handled. Let's just say that, Lord,
I hate say this, but let's just say that he
is he has been placed into His remains have been
placed within a trash bag into a public receptacle, and
(30:32):
that is going to be taken by a trash truck
and dumped in a landfill. Well, now you have this
really complex event that begins to take place because you're
in First off, the body is in a bag, so
that means the body is sweating as it's decomposing. It's
sweating that's going to prompt further or accelerated decomposition. He's
(30:56):
going into a very aerobic environment if it's a landfall ill,
which means all the other nasties that are in dwelling
out there are going to begin to attack his remains.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't attack his remains in
some other location, however, Uh, this is multiplied when you
(31:16):
go to a landfill, and that that's the only thing
that's really come to mind right now. But you know,
you've got a mom who sounds like if we are
to believe what she said, and this is fascinating. Did
you see somebody, what was it hit my car or
whatever it was three days earlier?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Do you have CCTV somebody in my car?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, somebody broke into my car. It's almost, David, it's
almost like she's prime in the pump at that point
in time.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You know, I have cares.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, I mean, you know, if you're she's in the
military and she's conducting operation uh, this is a point
of observation here, she's doing her job right. Well, that
means that there's some intent, maybe premeditative thing that's going
on here. Maybe she has the body. Yeah, at this
point in time, they're trying to decide. They're panicking, what
(32:06):
do I do with the body? Because ups, Daddy's done
it again, only this time, remember harming to Montgomery. Well,
I think I really heard her this time. You know,
after that piece of garbage hit that child and she
quote unquote went to sleep. Was she died in the
backseat of that Chrysler seavering in the freezing cold, and
(32:27):
he put her in a bag and then carted her
all over the place, stored her in vents up in
the ceiling, took her to work, I've just about had
enough at this point, Dave, I tell you they've gotten
one the last nerve, because these stories keep coming up
like this, and you know these babies are being treated
like garbage. I know it's gone on forever, but it's
(32:49):
just amplified for some reason. In this particular case. You
think about a manual with his remains, where are they
is it going to be possible to track? Are they
looking at his digital footprint at this point? Are they
looking at her digital footprint? The fact the fact that
(33:09):
the DA has made this kind of definitive comment at
this time tells me that they've got something else. And
when you look at child abuse, okay, one of the
primary things that comes up with child abuse cases is
abusers will do things like doctor shopping, so they'll strike
(33:34):
a kid. Kid is severely injured. They take the kid
to a dock in a box somewhere, or maybe to
an emergency room. Kid gets treated and the abuser says, yay,
you know, he was climbing up in the tree or
he fell down staircase. Doctor treats him. Injuries begin to resolve.
(33:56):
Remember we heard about resolving injuries in the ten week old.
All right, injuries begin to resolve, abuser loses their cool again,
strikes the child again, maybe this time partially chokes the
child out. Now we're back to doctor shopping. We can't
go back to the same physician. We've got to go
to another one, all right. So I want to know
(34:18):
if they've gotten their hands on any kind of medical
records here yet, because sometimes that's the big reveal in
child abuse cases. Was there somebody else that saw something
that no one is aware of yet and they've told
the police have told that witness be quiet. We're going
to use your information, but we need you to be
quiet at this moment, Tom please, We're begging you. Okay,
(34:41):
maybe they saw something, maybe they saw the child being
struck or whatever the case might be.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
But police said that they believe they know where Emmanuel is.
And the fact that they say we believe we know
where he is but they have not retrieved his body
is very telling. Indicates to me that it could be
a landfill, and we know landfills are gritted, which again
(35:07):
goes back to decomp What are we really looking at?
Is there a big difference between five days in eight days,
four days and nine days?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah? Well yeah, And it's a it's a steady progression.
It never that's the thing about it. Once it starts it,
you don't retard it in any way. It's it's not
it's not ceasing it. You know, biology continues to creep on.
It's you know, it's you can't stem it in any way.
(35:41):
You know. You say, well, you can put a body
in a cooler and it will possibly retard the progression
of decomposition. But spacey's not a cooler, all right, it's somewhere.
This body is somewhere exposed to the element. So, going
back to what I said previously, if if body is
in a landfill, this progression is going to speed up
(36:05):
because of this hostile environment that the body would be in.
And yet there's going to be a heck of a
lot of difference. And here's another thing. In landfills, you
have this this specter of heavy equipment. And with the
heavy equipment, one of the things that has to happen
(36:27):
is that you know, we talk about grids in landfills,
and the people that operate these things know exactly where
things are going to be deposited, and they don't keep
redepositing in those locations. They deposit, they fill whatever their
quote is for that space in square yards or square
meters or whatever it is. Then they move to the
(36:47):
next grid. Well, in the meantime, you've got heavy equipment
that runs back and forth over the top. You've ever
seen those those steel wheeled big pieces of equipment, usually
looks like at a pillar. They've got these large spikes
on the on. They're not tires, they're actually wheels, and
(37:08):
so they're kind of churning this thing and pressing it down,
so it stratifies it. It presses it down, it stratifies it,
and then you come back if it's time for that
grid again, you put more trash on top of it.
That's why of these things are so daunting. Not to mention,
you've got animal activity in these locations. You've got insect activity.
I'm talking about big animals you know, can get in there,
(37:30):
and then you have in you know, if you've got
the remains of a you know, a decomposing child, it
gets really horrific, really really quickly. And this is this
is one of the concerns, and I think that the
police have expressed this already. You're going to have to
have a to really nail this thing down from proscutorial standpoint,
(37:56):
You're going to have to have a cause of death.
You know, you we hear a lot about the user
terminal's term, Dave nonspecific comicidal trauma. You'll hear that a lot.
But it's going to be really important to try to
demonstrate this, and the longer a body is decomposing, the
(38:18):
more difficult that becomes. Well, first off, I hope he's
not decomposing. I hope that I would rather have seen
him picked up by somebody and they're holding him safely
and providing for him than any of the stuff that
we're talking about. But right now, given history that you
know we've been discussing, I'm not real hopeful at this
(38:42):
point in Tom Dave.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
You know, Joe, if okay, if Emmanuel Harrow is found,
if that's then unless if he has found deceased, are
they being law enforcement? Are they going to be able
to prove that his death was caused at the hands
of his parents because her story is that I was hit,
(39:06):
he was snatched. Well, their argument could be he was
snatched when the bad guys saw it covered on TV,
they killed him and threw them in. You know, they
did that the bad guys did it. I'm the victim.
My baby was stolen from me. How do you approve
you've got his You have this seven month old baby
(39:27):
who's dad. How do you approve that they're the ones
that killed him?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Again, That's how digital evidence is going to play into this,
because it's not just going to be the phone's pinging
in various locations. It's also going to be CCTV. You're
going to have to go back to that central point
where they're domiciled, and if they're CCTV available in those locations,
you have to go back to the last time he
was known to be alive and gather all of that
(39:52):
footage that you possibly can and have somebody work their
way through it so that they can see these vehicles
where they're going, they're comings and goings. And I think,
if I'm not mistaken, California has license plate readers out
there as well. If they're passing by those cameras, how
many times do they hit on the camera? You know,
(40:13):
where are they're going, where they're up to And then
of course you got the phone pinging as well. That's
what it's going to come down to, you know, And
if and when they find his remains, can you place
their vehicle or even them at that site in particular?
And also is this a site that they're familiar with? Now?
The red herring here is if it does turn out
(40:36):
where this baby has been a homicide victim, they place
him in a bag and he's placed into a trash receptacle,
then the parents are probably not prone to go to
a landfill. The truck goes to a landfill, but then
you track the truck, what truck was running on these days,
(41:00):
and did they pick up from trash bins that these
individuals may have had access to. It's highly complex, and
it's not just going to be the one thing. It's
going to be a combination of multiple things that's going
to bring this thing to a resolution. And I hope,
you know, look, it's kind of rote to say this.
(41:22):
I hope it is in fact sooner than later, because
right now, I mean, people have lots of questions and
no answers at all. It seems as though to me,
at least, that the police have more information than they're
letting on. And I'm glad that they do, and I
hope that they don't let it out. I truly am
until they can, in fact, they can in fact find
(41:46):
his remains, take them and have them examined thoroughly, and
I mean thoroughly, and document everything I can. And you're
going to have to have a skilled forensic pathologist that
can delineate, like you said, from post mortem changes and
anti mortem trauma. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
(42:14):
Bodybacks
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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