April 15, 2025 • 39 mins
RECORDED AT THE HAMPTONS WHODUNIT - PODCAST STUDIO FUNDED BY BILLY JOEL AND SIR PAUL MCCARTNEY!!!
Jimmy Dolison was only 16-years-old in 1972 when he vanished. His family reported him missing in November and looked for him for days, weeks, and months, and years, but the trail went cold and Jimmy became another missing person statistic to the world, but not his family. Imagine the shock family members felt when more than 50-years later, an investigator contacts you to ask questions about your relative that has been missing for more than half a century. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack go back in time to try and figure out what happened to Jimmy, all those years ago. Professor Morgan will also explain how partially decomposed remains found in 1973 were able to provide DNA 50 years later that provided a positive identity and solve the disappearance of Jimmy Dolison.
Transcript Highlights
00:00.03 Introduction
05:38.66 Jimmy Dolison missing since 1972
06:53.11 Garnett John Doe, remains found in 1973
11:09.42 Cold weather clothing helps understand the murder
16:44.94 Unidentified remains had multiple pieces of unique jewelry
21:33.74 Did he die when he went missing?
26:36.78 Clothing is not disrupted
31:12.08 Othram DNA work
39:23.34 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body balance, but Joseph s gotten more known only to God.
Over the course of my career, I had the unfortunate
responsibility on a couple of occasions to be in charge
(00:26):
of the burial of unclaimed remains. We've gotten away from
cremation a number of years before because it creates problem.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
If you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Cremate remains, you have nothing left, but there is still
an opportunity if you bury the remains, some essence might
still exist. And I know that seems is rather innocuous,
but if you're a family that has been missing your
(01:07):
sixteen year old son or brother since nineteen seventy two,
it might mean the world to you to have something
that remains. Today, we're going to have a discussion about
a young man who vanished in nineteen seventy two, and
(01:34):
he has just now been identified in twenty twenty five.
But you know what, there's more to this mystery because
in this particular case, not only did he vanish, he
was a homicide. Open. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
(01:57):
is body by brother Dave. We are in an interesting
place today. We are actually out on Long Island. We're
here for the Hampton's who'd done it in Long Island,
New York and East Hampton, to be very specific. But
we are in the East Hampton Library and we're in
(02:21):
a rather special spot. I would argue that perhaps one
of the most well known pop stars of the seventies
and into the eighties is the benefactor of the room
that we're in right now. Dave, I'll go ahead and
let you tell us where we are and the equipment
(02:44):
that we're actually working with today here. Who furnished it.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Billy Joel. There you go, Long Island native Billy Joel.
It's a most It's really amazing. You know, a lot
of times when you have somebody that provides the backing
to put together a room, they'll go cheap, you know,
just because I got my name on it. I don't
worry about it. You know, you buy this on team
or something.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
This is not that.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
This is top of the line everywhere, multiple digital and
recording options. I mean, it's uh, this is the best.
This is better than study I use on a daily basis.
So I think we might move here.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, let's let's do it. I think I would like to.
We're like inside of a box. Yeah, our friends, you know,
and it's it's acoustically sound. I guess that that's what
can I actually say acoustically sound. Let's just say that
that all of everything has been taken into consideration in
this environment. Yeah, it's rather fascinating. I got to tell you.
(03:39):
It's an honor. And back to what you said. You know,
Billy Joel did not request that this booth be named
after him. You don't even know who actually supplied all
this unless you ask, oh wow, he didn't even have
to have his name on this thing.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So and it's a it's a great honor to be
here and certainly a great honor, particularly considered during the
case that we're going to present to you today, which
is absolutely heartbreaking and just something that actually came on
to our radar screen, and it involves our friends at
AUTHRAM down in the Woodlands, Texas and Dave what is
(04:18):
this victim's name, The shung Man.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Jimmy Dollison went missing in nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Now, Jimmy was sixteen years.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Old and they're not exactly sure when he went missing
October November of seventy two. I don't know all the
ins and outs of the relationship and what was going
on with family and everything else, but they were aware
that he was missing and we're looking for him, and
sadly they were looking for him until really and truly
(04:50):
until this week. And now they did have a hint
because of the technology and having to get information. But
the reality is, imagine anything if you were born before
nineteen seventy two, and imagine what you were doing in
the fall of nineteen seventy two. That family has been
missing their brother, their son, you know, since then, and
(05:11):
they didn't know did he just did he change his
name and go off and do something, Was he kidnapped?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Well, we have this through author and because of course
the remains were found, but they were not identified. This
was a case that was one of our John Doe
victims for a number of years, and there were actually
two different names used to identify him. He was known
as Garnet John Doe and Anderson County John Doe. This
(05:42):
out of Kansas, both those areas. Garnett is a town
in Kansas, and it's happened in Anderson County.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And so when the remains were found.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Joe and I'm trying to think of what would happen
then in nineteen seventy three. These remains are found April
of seventy three, And what are police going to do
first when they find remains and don't immediately know what
they're looking at.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, we're going to do and this even applies back then,
You're going to do an assessment geographically as to where
these remains, which obviously turn out to be Jimmy's remains,
are located and what kind of environment they're in. And
you know, the unfortunate thing about this case is that,
(06:30):
you know, the KBI, which is the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
has not released a tremendous amount of information. Here's here's
something else that you know. I love history, Dave. The
KBI is famous for having investigated the Cutler family homicides,
(06:52):
of course from in Cold Blood fame, and so I've
always had an affinity for any time KBI pop up,
you know, and particularly as it relates to Truman Capode's
similar work on that book. But they have had this case.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Hey, can I say one quick thing?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, sure, if you have only heard about the book,
and I think you probably have if you're listening to
this podcast, but if you haven't read it, if you've
only read about the case, or about Truman Capodi or whatever.
Go read In Cold Blood. It is a remarkable read
on a horrific crime. I'll leave it at that. But
(07:37):
please don't just do a Wikipedia or a quick Google.
Go get the book and read the book. It's worth it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I got to tell you that book is responsible and
to entice you even more, that book In Cold Blood
is actually regarded as the first true crime novel like book,
because you're taking a a an event which is rooted
(08:07):
in history, that is documented. It's not somebody's supposition or
anything like this. We're talking about Truman Capoti on the ground,
getting to know the families and the neighbors and all
of it, and even the KBI agents that hand that
handled it, all the way up to the point in
time where, uh, where these two guys are charged, convicted,
(08:30):
and executed. He's actually in the room when they are hung. Uh.
If you get a chance, check it out. But it's
written like that. Uh, it's so compelling, and it brings
us to this land that Jimmy has disappeared in. Of course,
this case with In Cold Blood was out in the
western part of Kansas, and this case is out of
(08:54):
Kansas City, Kansas and in that area there. But back
to back to what we were saying earlier with relative
to Jimmy's remant remains being found out there, you would
have to try to understand the environment in which he
has found And we've talked about this before day relative
to kind of geographic profiling. Is it a dump where
(09:19):
you have a body that is merely rolled out of
a car or drug into a ditch or was Jimmy
marched out into the woods killed in that location or
was it killed somewhere else and then taken off the
road into the woods. And the kb I was not
really given out a lot of information from then. And
let me tell you why you talk about cold case.
(09:42):
The cold case part of it where that authorm got
involved in where he is unidentified, that was a cold case.
That's that part of it shut down. But here's the
thing that's so compelling about this, this an open home
side investigation, Dave.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
There's no statute of limitations on. It's the one thing
that you cannot outlive. You know, well you cannot live it,
I mean, but you know they can. They will if
the person is alive, they committed the crime a murder,
they will do the time. But I'm looking at this
from the standpoint of what when they find the body then?
And this is kind of top of mind because of
(10:19):
some shows we've done recently about decomposition. They mentioned they
being the KBI, that the remains that were found in
April of nineteen seventy three were decomposing remains. In the process,
they didn't just find bones or whatever. They actually did
find a decomposing body.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Knowing that he was last.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Seen October November of the previous year, he's been missing
for five months, give or take, and yet maybe six months,
and yet his remains are still decomposing. Is this where
maybe he was being held captive and then killed and dumped.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Or yeah, can you get any of that information out
of this.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That I think that there might be a possibility. However,
remember you had mentioned October or November, and he's wearing
a particular type of clothing, which we'll get into in
just a moment. But I think that it's it's it's
a salient point here to try to understand was he
killed elsewhere and brought to this location or did he
(11:26):
die specifically in this location. Now he is dressed as
if he is fighting off the cold, you know, and
you know Kansas gets you know, it gets very very cold.
But is it so cold that we're talking about wintertime? Well,
if he's disappeared in October November, which is kind of
(11:46):
interesting to me, sixteen years old and they don't know
the specific time when he died or when he disappeared,
rather is kind of curious to me. Relative to that,
I'm wondering about people's recollections, what kind of report was
written at that point in time, you know, what was
kind of generated relative to this. It would be something
(12:09):
that we would have to try to explore further relative
to the history of this case, going back in time,
when was Jimmy last physically seen alive and he's sixteen
years old? Is he a high school student? Well, that's
right in the heart of the school year at that
point in time. Or had he run away? And that
(12:31):
that brings us to this point. I think had he
run away, because they're being very nonspecific about the times
involved here with October and November, that's certainly a possibility
that we would have to entertain. And since this is
an open homicide investigation, Dave, I'll ask you this question
that I've asked you on several other occasions. What in
(12:52):
the world could a sixteen year old kid have done
to someone to compel those individuals to take his life?
You know, I don't understand what is it? What did
Jimmy have? What had he done? What would compel them
(13:13):
to want to end this young man's life and leave
him out in some isolated location where he's going to
be decomposing and won't be seen from once and NNS David,
(13:38):
I'm going to shock you a statement here and tell
you right up front that my view of this case,
this is an abject failure on the part of the
authorities that were involved in this case in the very beginning.
And the reason I'm saying that is that Jimmy's remains
(14:05):
when they were discovered, Yes, they were decomposing when they
were discovered. It's not like you had a young man
who was found nude and just cast a drift in
the wilderness or out, you know, in an unpopulated area.
That's that's not what we're talking about. They have got
(14:29):
a very specific clothing description.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
That's why I was wondering about this, Joe, how is
it possible that you've got a guy that goes missing
from this general area, and he's sixteen years old October
November seventy two. We're now talking April eighteenth of seventy three.
You've got a great description of the clothing that they
(14:54):
find on this unidentified body, and you're gonna tell me
you can't come up with an idea that maybe it's
this guy that's missing from three miles away.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, And not only not only do we have clothing
we have got I'm not going to call it a ward,
but we've got a significant amount of jewelry.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Very specific jewelry with a number on one of them.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I think it was seventy eight, Yeah, seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And he's also wearing so he's wearing a ring with
the number seventy eight on it. And get this, y'all,
he's wearing two other rings, if I'm not mistaken, that
have crosses on them. Right, he is wearing a necklace
that is also a cross. I got to tell you.
With every element, and this is kind of standard in
(15:43):
human identification, with every element of specific identity that we have,
With each of each of those components, you're increasing the
probability that you're going to get somebody identified just through
the visual aspects of this or just their possessions alone.
I'd say, look, I'd say that some guy walking around
(16:04):
with a ring on a cross, I mean a ring
with a cross on it. Okay, you got one, I
don't know, you know, maybe that's not possible. This kid
had three rings on David. And then what's the significance
of the number seventy eight? Why would you have the
number seventy eight on a ring? Maybe it's something from
nineteen seventy two that I'm not fully aware of. I
(16:26):
don't know what the significance of seventy eight is. But
because I don't know the significance of it doesn't make
it insignificant. A matter of fact, it makes it very
specific to me. I'm trying to understand where the failure
came in with not notifying the public.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I'm trying to figure the same thing out. But more
than everything, the description on of the remains at the
time the body was found, the remains are found. When
you've got a discription of clothing, jewelry, things like that,
you're going to tell me, not one person that knew
Jimmy Dallison could think of he had a number seventy eight,
(17:09):
you know, of some type.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
It's not like he was going for years at this point, Joe.
The body is found in months.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Granted, I mean it's five six months after he was
They don't even know exactly when he was last seen.
That's for starters. I know it was a different time then,
I do know that, But really, are we that undermanned
and law enforcement back in nineteen seventy two in the
fall the mom and dad know you know what, Maybe
I'm being too harsh, Joe, because back then, in nineteen
(17:36):
seventy two, the Fall of seventy two, we did not
have cell phones, beepers and things like that. We had
a home phone. Unless your dad ran business out of
the house, you know, you only had one phone. I
knew one guy that had two phones in the house
back then. So if Jimmy left home to live with
somebody else at sixteen, I don't know if that's a
(17:58):
regular thing in Kansas. I know it wasn't regular thing
for anybody I knew. But I'm trying to figure out
how disconnected the family was in terms of dealing with
the police. That you've got a child at sixteen who
now is not living at home with mom and dad,
apparently when he goes missing, and that nobody in the
family understands the value of this jewelry. That seems very
(18:20):
specific to me.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, let me throw another major failure at you relative
to the relative to the players that are entering in
and off of the stage here, and that's the news media,
because I got to tell you, I'm thinking back right now.
I think I read my first newspaper. I was always
fascinated with newspapers when I was a kid. I probably
(18:45):
read my first newspaper before I was looking at newspapers,
before I could actually even read. I'm sure that I
had a newspaper spread out on the floor before me,
at least in nineteen sixty nine, taking silly putty and
(19:06):
placing it on the paper and lifting the images off
of it and stretching the faces all over the place.
So you're telling me that the newspapers in this area
could not be utilized in a manner in which you
could get this kid identified just based upon the clothing,
(19:28):
script and this jewelry. So it's a failure on the
part of local newspapers. We've got parents who we know
reported him missing. It's not like they've fallen off the
face of the planet. They're missing their child. Back during
that they think that he was missing during that's when
they called it in reported him missing, And so there's
(19:51):
a major disconnect. I know that they had television stations
in Kansas City back during this period of time. You're
not going to be able to go because this would
have been a big he would think about a sixteen
year old this found decomposing out in the woods and
he's got jewelry on.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And the only thing that we were told now is
they didn't they being law enforcement, they'd never mentioned how
long the remains had been decomposing. But the entry into
the National Missing and Unidentified Person Systems noted that he
had been deceased two to four weeks before his remains
(20:27):
were found. So mom and dad report him missing in
October or November. We don't even have an exact day
for when he was reported missing. We obviously have to
think he wasn't with his parents when he went missing
because they didn't know exactly when, So.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Did he run away? And then.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Then he's finding his way around Kansas and then two
to four weeks before his remains are found when he's
still a missing person. I guess I'm having trouble thinking
that a body has found that kind of matches a
description of a young man who has been reported missing
in your home state.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Well, you know you made the you made mentioned Dave
of the fact that or of you're you're wondering, you're
speculating as to whether or not whether or not he
died at the moment in time when he went missing,
or or had he been alive for a period of
(21:29):
time after that October November from because we're talking April
April seventy three, and they're saying in the registry that
low end he had been deceased. How long did they think?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Two to four weeks is what it says in the registry,
And I'm thinking that doesn't match up with advanced decomposition.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Was he had he had he moved in with somebody
sixteen years old? I don't I don't know that's the case.
But had he moved in with somebody, perhaps looking for shelter,
looking for comfort, I don't know. And then all of
a sudden they take issue with him and they decide
(22:15):
to end his life and then take him out to
this location that would inhibit his discovery for this period
of time. It's a fascinating thing to consider and to
try to, you know, kind of peel back the years
with this and try to understand, you know, all of
(22:37):
the principles. I would think they that were involved in
this case, if they're if they're not deceased, they're well
well up in to the latter part of their life.
I'll say that I would think that they would have
to be at least in certainly in their late seventies
early eighties.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, I figured fifty years. He's been gone fifty years.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, absolutely, and so I don't know that there would
still be anybody you could go and specifically question about
this and say, you know, well, what did you see
at that time? What did you notice? And that's one
of the important things in forensics day is that I
teach my kids at university that not only are they
(23:22):
training and being educated to become forensic investigators, but they're
also de facto historians too, because you take a case
like this and if you had failed back then at
that period of time to document everything that you saw,
because you know, we don't think that someday I'm going
to be gone and you know, you don't think that
(23:44):
way most of the time, particularly when you're young. Well,
it's going to be the case. You're going to be gone.
All that is going to remain are going to be
those notes that you took at that moment time when
you wrote them down, the things you've documented, the environment
that was there. If that's not well documented, then you're
gonna have a catastrophic failure. It might not occur for
(24:08):
five decades. I just want to revisit once again, this
clothing that Jimmy Dolson was wearing when he was discovered.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Joe, I need to know something because I'm hung up
on when he's reported missing in October November and remains
found April eighteenth. Okay, now, we know Kansas is cold
and that would change decomposition some But when you're out
there in the field and you're trying to determine how
(24:56):
long has this individual been here and there remains are
decomp somewhat, are you also going to be looking at
the clothing, the wear and tear on the clothing, and
whether or not animals have done their business. Are you
going to be able to get a handle on even
if the remains are not that you know, because again
they're saying two to four weeks that he'd been out there.
Is it possible he could have been out there much
(25:18):
longer than two to four weeks.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, it's going to throw deepening. And we don't know
anything from a meteorological standpoint about that late fall into
the winter. Tom held, did it get unseasonably cold in
the fall of nineteen seventy two in this particular region
where if he did die, it could in some level
(25:43):
retard the trajectory of the decomposition. It's hard, it's hard
to kind of parse that out. I think what we
do know is that when he was discovered and David,
this clothing list that you've provided me, Dave, is very
specific to this young man. And let me run it
down just so everybody understands. It's a brown corduroy jacket. Okay, Now,
(26:08):
it's not a heavy coat. It's a brown corduroy jacket.
It's not like your you know, your dress to go
to the Arctic or anything. A green long sleeve shirt.
I don't know about you, but I don't wear long
sleeve shirts generally in the summertime, most of the time
in late spring. I certainly don't. This is they're saying
the shirt was buttoned. Okay, so that's a big tail
(26:31):
for me because that means that the clothing is not
disrupted in any way. He's wearing jeans. They don't give
the color of the jeans. He's got a black leather belt.
It's got a large belt buckle. Now they don't give
us a descriptor on the belt buckle. Now, I don't
know about you. I've had enough cases where I've seen
(26:53):
people that you know, get belt buckles from Western stores
or they collected them from or something like that, and
they're very specific. If you've got a large they're describing
this thing as a large belt buckle. Well, what's what?
Is there an image? Is there an engraving on there
at all? He's wearing brown hiking boots, Dave. He's got
(27:18):
a navy blue stocking cap on as well. So you know,
from a practical standpoint, you got a jacket on, you've
got a stocking cap, you would think, well, he's trying
to keep his extremities, you know, warm. He's got heavy
boots on, hiking boots, and they're very specific about that.
(27:41):
And then you couple that with all of the jewelry.
But here's the thing. Even though the corner had all
of that data that they had collected at autopsy, of
course they observed it at the scene as well. Here's
the thing about it. The corner at the time when
they got Jimmy's body back to the medical legal facility
(28:04):
where they did his examination, they were able to determine
that he's a homicide victim. But David, I've got to
tell you, when it comes to the specifics of the injuries,
I'd say, we're greatly lacking here, aren't we.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I'm trying to figure out how much more they can
tell that they're not sharing. And again with no uh,
with no limit, no statute of limitations on a murder,
and they've described blunt force trauma right to the head,
I'm going I'm throwing that in there. I don't think
they said to the head. I think they said there's
some blunt force trauma, correct.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
They just said to me. In my reading, the idea
was that there were the body displayed trauma, right, and
that was essentially all they're saying. So, you know, trauma
comes in many forms. You can be sle you can
be shot, you can be run over, which is a
(29:05):
form of blunt force trauma, or you can be beaten
to death with an object. Heck, I mean trauma can
also depend upon how you view it can also be
framed in the sense that, well, do you have trauma
to his neck, like he's got external injuries that perhaps
they could still appreciate. There's underlying hemorrhage. Maybe he's been
(29:28):
punched in the throat.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeh.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Sadly, I have no idea when I said trauma to
the head, I just assumed that.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
But you're right.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I went back through all my notes and in no
point does sayhead, just as trauma to his body. Now,
as we're looking at this all these years later, and
we're looking over the vagueness of this report, but the
very specific description of the clothes he's wearing in the jewelry,
it seems kind of odd that they would be so specific.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
About that, very vague about injuries.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
But you've got a missing sixteen year old and couldn't
figure out that this was the guy, And I guess
it's He was in Kansas City when he went missing
October November of seventy two, and the body has found
eighty miles away in nineteen say, for a seventy three
That doesn't seem like a great distance to us today.
(30:16):
Was it that much different then that eighty miles would
have been? I can't imagine, Joe, I just I guess
I'm sitting here thinking, how is it possible that law
enforcement didn't connect We've got a body over here of
a young I mean, they would know his gender, they
would know if he was white, black, Hispanic, they would
have the basics of ethnicity.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And you're gonna tell me they couldn't put two and
two together and go.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
We got a white kid missing over here, got a
white kid dead over here. Hey, let's just see if
the you know, we got very specific jewelry, very specific
clothing here. How is it possible that we don't know
who this is? Because they said they kept trying for
years and years and years, and it was only when
they got autrom when we get down of the genetics,
they couldn't figure it out based on cloth, clothing, on jewelry,
(31:02):
on a description of the body with trauma. That all
these years later, fifty years go by and now they're
doing genetic re engineering pretty much the DNA work that
Authoram does that is so intense. They have a maximum
period of time individuals are allowed to work.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
On a case on a given day.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, yeah, you can't work any longer. And I don't
know if our friends know this, but you can't work
any longer than about fifteen minutes and you have to
go for a break. The work that AUTHRAM does is
so labor intensive, and that's what they did. I'm sure
with Jimmy's case, the case itself, because it's been languishing
(31:45):
for these many years, the KBI actually referred the case
to AUTHRAM and got them involved. Unfortunately, Jimmy's siblings are
are still with us, and based upon the genetic material
that they retained from Jimmy's remains from all of those
(32:08):
years ago day, they were able to get his coating,
if you will, his genetic coating and placed that into
the system and they got to hit through this open
open sourcing of people that have their you know, their
(32:29):
DNA and the open source banks that are out there,
and they were able to confirm, you know, after you
get that hit, which is very important, the initial hit,
you know, and you're looking at maybe you know a
cousin or something, and you can track that back concentrically
and you say, okay, they're putting two and two together.
(32:50):
We've got a kid that was missing from nineteen seventy two.
We have these relatives right here and they're very very
close genetically in proximity to our victim. Let's go talk
to him. Can you imagine? Can you imagine you're a brother,
or a sister or maybe a cousin, and you're sitting
(33:10):
around in a knock comes to your door and it's
a law enforcement official and they say, we want to
ask you a question. I want to ask you a question.
Is there anybody in your family that's missing? Can you imagine?
And then all of a sudden you recall, yeah, my cousin,
my brother, my sister, you know, yeah, they've been missing
(33:32):
since nineteen seventy two. Well, guess what, guess what, here's
the big reveal we have. We have your loved one's remains,
and that's been made possible by the work that AUTHORAM
has done. And look to their credit with KBI, they
(33:54):
had the good sense to reach out to AUTHORM and
push this case toward them so that they could examine
it more closely and maybe get a hit, and in
this case they actually did. But again, look I have
to say this is an open homicide because the Corner
(34:16):
all those years ago ruled that Jimmy died as a
result of well, for us, it's non specific, but homicidal trauma.
That classified the thing as a homicide. That means that
this is an open case. That means that if there
is somebody out there that had anything to do with
(34:37):
Jimmy's homicide, they're on the hook for it, Dave, they
are on the hook for it.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Doesn't go away.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
The one reason we do these authorn cases, we try
to do them every so often.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
This one just happened to pop up this week.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah, while we were in Long Island, we knew we
were going to be doing the podcast in the Billy
Joel provided room. But this is so fresh. That's terms
of a case. It's just now in the media because
they just got this finished, and all I can think
of is author them to do their work to bring
I don't want to say closure, but to actually find
(35:14):
answers for families. They have to crowdfund. They have to
crowdsource fund. The ability to raise money and solve these
things as it does cost money, money, and time. I
can't imagine having a loved one missing and the difference
between identifying my child, my brother, my mom or dad
is seventy five hundred dollars to get started.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
And I have to you.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Know, not lot ofs don't have the money just laying around,
you know, but we can all donate. And that's how
they actually fund these things. Is not like author them Again,
I go back to all the things our government funds, Joe,
you're going to I just assumed there was a checking
account for medical research and things like this where you
just call the government say hey, I need you know
(35:56):
a couple hundred thousand dollars going to solve from crimes today.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That's that's just not the case. And it all depends
on where our priorities are as a people. I think
and for me, and I'm biased, I'll have to admit.
And it goes back to my earlier statement. I've stood
at gravesides where bodies have been buried that were unidentified,
and it's free investigator, and it's soul crushing. It's soul
(36:24):
crushing to see bodies placed into the ground and you
don't know who they are at all. But with the
work that Authoram is doing, it is it's a game
changer in the world of forensic science. It's a game
changer I think for just us as a people, that
(36:46):
we are able at some point in time to provide
maybe comfort to a family because all these years, you know,
Jimmy's family. You know, I like to use the empty
chair analogy. There's always an empty chair at the table.
You know how many Christmases, how many Thanksgivings went without
(37:07):
him being there? No matter what had happened in the past,
it doesn't matter. You know what has occurred, what kind
of falling out that somebody may have had, what kind
of words were said, And we don't know enough at
this point in time, but there's something that separated that
separated Jimmy from his family at sixteen years of age,
(37:29):
where he was out there alone and his body has
been left discarded. I urge all of our listeners to
please please visit dnasols dot com and you can look
over the cases that are there and see if there
is anything that you know, perhaps piqued your interest, a
(37:53):
case that you would like to be involved with, the
case that you would like to support. Again, that's dnasolves
dot com. Have one more that I would like to
pass on to you as well, and that is the
tip line for the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. Keep in mind,
you can help solve a homicide, all right. I just
(38:14):
want to say that plainly. You can help solve this homicide.
Maybe it's a comment that was made in passing. Maybe
somebody out there was in the joint with somebody at
some point in time and somebody said something. Then you
never know what scrap of information might help out. But
here's the tip line for the Kansas Bureau of Investigation.
(38:37):
It's one eight hundred KS crime. That's one eight hundred
ks c r IM and we want to see we
want to see if we can solve the homicide of
Jimmy Alan Dollson, who went missing in the fall of
(39:00):
nineteen seventy two, was discovered in April of nineteen seventy three,
and as a result of the work that our friends
at Authoram Labs performed, was identified in twenty twenty five.
(39:20):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs
Body balance, but Joseph s gotten more known only to God.
Over the course of my career, I had the unfortunate
responsibility on a couple of occasions to be in charge
(00:26):
of the burial of unclaimed remains. We've gotten away from
cremation a number of years before because it creates problem.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
If you.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Cremate remains, you have nothing left, but there is still
an opportunity if you bury the remains, some essence might
still exist. And I know that seems is rather innocuous,
but if you're a family that has been missing your
(01:07):
sixteen year old son or brother since nineteen seventy two,
it might mean the world to you to have something
that remains. Today, we're going to have a discussion about
a young man who vanished in nineteen seventy two, and
(01:34):
he has just now been identified in twenty twenty five.
But you know what, there's more to this mystery because
in this particular case, not only did he vanish, he
was a homicide. Open. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
(01:57):
is body by brother Dave. We are in an interesting
place today. We are actually out on Long Island. We're
here for the Hampton's who'd done it in Long Island,
New York and East Hampton, to be very specific. But
we are in the East Hampton Library and we're in
(02:21):
a rather special spot. I would argue that perhaps one
of the most well known pop stars of the seventies
and into the eighties is the benefactor of the room
that we're in right now. Dave, I'll go ahead and
let you tell us where we are and the equipment
(02:44):
that we're actually working with today here. Who furnished it.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Billy Joel. There you go, Long Island native Billy Joel.
It's a most It's really amazing. You know, a lot
of times when you have somebody that provides the backing
to put together a room, they'll go cheap, you know,
just because I got my name on it. I don't
worry about it. You know, you buy this on team
or something.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
This is not that.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
This is top of the line everywhere, multiple digital and
recording options. I mean, it's uh, this is the best.
This is better than study I use on a daily basis.
So I think we might move here.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, let's let's do it. I think I would like to.
We're like inside of a box. Yeah, our friends, you know,
and it's it's acoustically sound. I guess that that's what
can I actually say acoustically sound. Let's just say that
that all of everything has been taken into consideration in
this environment. Yeah, it's rather fascinating. I got to tell you.
(03:39):
It's an honor. And back to what you said. You know,
Billy Joel did not request that this booth be named
after him. You don't even know who actually supplied all
this unless you ask, oh wow, he didn't even have
to have his name on this thing.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's cool.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So and it's a it's a great honor to be
here and certainly a great honor, particularly considered during the
case that we're going to present to you today, which
is absolutely heartbreaking and just something that actually came on
to our radar screen, and it involves our friends at
AUTHRAM down in the Woodlands, Texas and Dave what is
(04:18):
this victim's name, The shung Man.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Jimmy Dollison went missing in nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Now, Jimmy was sixteen years.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Old and they're not exactly sure when he went missing
October November of seventy two. I don't know all the
ins and outs of the relationship and what was going
on with family and everything else, but they were aware
that he was missing and we're looking for him, and
sadly they were looking for him until really and truly
(04:50):
until this week. And now they did have a hint
because of the technology and having to get information. But
the reality is, imagine anything if you were born before
nineteen seventy two, and imagine what you were doing in
the fall of nineteen seventy two. That family has been
missing their brother, their son, you know, since then, and
(05:11):
they didn't know did he just did he change his
name and go off and do something, Was he kidnapped?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Well, we have this through author and because of course
the remains were found, but they were not identified. This
was a case that was one of our John Doe
victims for a number of years, and there were actually
two different names used to identify him. He was known
as Garnet John Doe and Anderson County John Doe. This
(05:42):
out of Kansas, both those areas. Garnett is a town
in Kansas, and it's happened in Anderson County.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And so when the remains were found.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Joe and I'm trying to think of what would happen
then in nineteen seventy three. These remains are found April
of seventy three, And what are police going to do
first when they find remains and don't immediately know what
they're looking at.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Well, we're going to do and this even applies back then,
You're going to do an assessment geographically as to where
these remains, which obviously turn out to be Jimmy's remains,
are located and what kind of environment they're in. And
you know, the unfortunate thing about this case is that,
(06:30):
you know, the KBI, which is the Kansas Bureau of Investigation,
has not released a tremendous amount of information. Here's here's
something else that you know. I love history, Dave. The
KBI is famous for having investigated the Cutler family homicides,
(06:52):
of course from in Cold Blood fame, and so I've
always had an affinity for any time KBI pop up,
you know, and particularly as it relates to Truman Capode's
similar work on that book. But they have had this case.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Hey, can I say one quick thing?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, sure, if you have only heard about the book,
and I think you probably have if you're listening to
this podcast, but if you haven't read it, if you've
only read about the case, or about Truman Capodi or whatever.
Go read In Cold Blood. It is a remarkable read
on a horrific crime. I'll leave it at that. But
(07:37):
please don't just do a Wikipedia or a quick Google.
Go get the book and read the book. It's worth it.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I got to tell you that book is responsible and
to entice you even more, that book In Cold Blood
is actually regarded as the first true crime novel like book,
because you're taking a a an event which is rooted
(08:07):
in history, that is documented. It's not somebody's supposition or
anything like this. We're talking about Truman Capoti on the ground,
getting to know the families and the neighbors and all
of it, and even the KBI agents that hand that
handled it, all the way up to the point in
time where, uh, where these two guys are charged, convicted,
(08:30):
and executed. He's actually in the room when they are hung. Uh.
If you get a chance, check it out. But it's
written like that. Uh, it's so compelling, and it brings
us to this land that Jimmy has disappeared in. Of course,
this case with In Cold Blood was out in the
western part of Kansas, and this case is out of
(08:54):
Kansas City, Kansas and in that area there. But back
to back to what we were saying earlier with relative
to Jimmy's remant remains being found out there, you would
have to try to understand the environment in which he
has found And we've talked about this before day relative
to kind of geographic profiling. Is it a dump where
(09:19):
you have a body that is merely rolled out of
a car or drug into a ditch or was Jimmy
marched out into the woods killed in that location or
was it killed somewhere else and then taken off the
road into the woods. And the kb I was not
really given out a lot of information from then. And
let me tell you why you talk about cold case.
(09:42):
The cold case part of it where that authorm got
involved in where he is unidentified, that was a cold case.
That's that part of it shut down. But here's the
thing that's so compelling about this, this an open home
side investigation, Dave.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
There's no statute of limitations on. It's the one thing
that you cannot outlive. You know, well you cannot live it,
I mean, but you know they can. They will if
the person is alive, they committed the crime a murder,
they will do the time. But I'm looking at this
from the standpoint of what when they find the body then?
And this is kind of top of mind because of
(10:19):
some shows we've done recently about decomposition. They mentioned they
being the KBI, that the remains that were found in
April of nineteen seventy three were decomposing remains. In the process,
they didn't just find bones or whatever. They actually did
find a decomposing body.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Knowing that he was last.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Seen October November of the previous year, he's been missing
for five months, give or take, and yet maybe six months,
and yet his remains are still decomposing. Is this where
maybe he was being held captive and then killed and dumped.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Or yeah, can you get any of that information out
of this.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That I think that there might be a possibility. However,
remember you had mentioned October or November, and he's wearing
a particular type of clothing, which we'll get into in
just a moment. But I think that it's it's it's
a salient point here to try to understand was he
killed elsewhere and brought to this location or did he
(11:26):
die specifically in this location. Now he is dressed as
if he is fighting off the cold, you know, and
you know Kansas gets you know, it gets very very cold.
But is it so cold that we're talking about wintertime? Well,
if he's disappeared in October November, which is kind of
(11:46):
interesting to me, sixteen years old and they don't know
the specific time when he died or when he disappeared,
rather is kind of curious to me. Relative to that,
I'm wondering about people's recollections, what kind of report was
written at that point in time, you know, what was
kind of generated relative to this. It would be something
(12:09):
that we would have to try to explore further relative
to the history of this case, going back in time,
when was Jimmy last physically seen alive and he's sixteen
years old? Is he a high school student? Well, that's
right in the heart of the school year at that
point in time. Or had he run away? And that
(12:31):
that brings us to this point. I think had he
run away, because they're being very nonspecific about the times
involved here with October and November, that's certainly a possibility
that we would have to entertain. And since this is
an open homicide investigation, Dave, I'll ask you this question
that I've asked you on several other occasions. What in
(12:52):
the world could a sixteen year old kid have done
to someone to compel those individuals to take his life?
You know, I don't understand what is it? What did
Jimmy have? What had he done? What would compel them
(13:13):
to want to end this young man's life and leave
him out in some isolated location where he's going to
be decomposing and won't be seen from once and NNS David,
(13:38):
I'm going to shock you a statement here and tell
you right up front that my view of this case,
this is an abject failure on the part of the
authorities that were involved in this case in the very beginning.
And the reason I'm saying that is that Jimmy's remains
(14:05):
when they were discovered, Yes, they were decomposing when they
were discovered. It's not like you had a young man
who was found nude and just cast a drift in
the wilderness or out, you know, in an unpopulated area.
That's that's not what we're talking about. They have got
(14:29):
a very specific clothing description.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
That's why I was wondering about this, Joe, how is
it possible that you've got a guy that goes missing
from this general area, and he's sixteen years old October
November seventy two. We're now talking April eighteenth of seventy three.
You've got a great description of the clothing that they
(14:54):
find on this unidentified body, and you're gonna tell me
you can't come up with an idea that maybe it's
this guy that's missing from three miles away.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, And not only not only do we have clothing
we have got I'm not going to call it a ward,
but we've got a significant amount of jewelry.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Very specific jewelry with a number on one of them.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I think it was seventy eight, Yeah, seventy eight.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And he's also wearing so he's wearing a ring with
the number seventy eight on it. And get this, y'all,
he's wearing two other rings, if I'm not mistaken, that
have crosses on them. Right, he is wearing a necklace
that is also a cross. I got to tell you.
With every element, and this is kind of standard in
(15:43):
human identification, with every element of specific identity that we have,
With each of each of those components, you're increasing the
probability that you're going to get somebody identified just through
the visual aspects of this or just their possessions alone.
I'd say, look, I'd say that some guy walking around
(16:04):
with a ring on a cross, I mean a ring
with a cross on it. Okay, you got one, I
don't know, you know, maybe that's not possible. This kid
had three rings on David. And then what's the significance
of the number seventy eight? Why would you have the
number seventy eight on a ring? Maybe it's something from
nineteen seventy two that I'm not fully aware of. I
(16:26):
don't know what the significance of seventy eight is. But
because I don't know the significance of it doesn't make
it insignificant. A matter of fact, it makes it very
specific to me. I'm trying to understand where the failure
came in with not notifying the public.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I'm trying to figure the same thing out. But more
than everything, the description on of the remains at the
time the body was found, the remains are found. When
you've got a discription of clothing, jewelry, things like that,
you're going to tell me, not one person that knew
Jimmy Dallison could think of he had a number seventy eight,
(17:09):
you know, of some type.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
It's not like he was going for years at this point, Joe.
The body is found in months.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Granted, I mean it's five six months after he was
They don't even know exactly when he was last seen.
That's for starters. I know it was a different time then,
I do know that, But really, are we that undermanned
and law enforcement back in nineteen seventy two in the
fall the mom and dad know you know what, Maybe
I'm being too harsh, Joe, because back then, in nineteen
(17:36):
seventy two, the Fall of seventy two, we did not
have cell phones, beepers and things like that. We had
a home phone. Unless your dad ran business out of
the house, you know, you only had one phone. I
knew one guy that had two phones in the house
back then. So if Jimmy left home to live with
somebody else at sixteen, I don't know if that's a
(17:58):
regular thing in Kansas. I know it wasn't regular thing
for anybody I knew. But I'm trying to figure out
how disconnected the family was in terms of dealing with
the police. That you've got a child at sixteen who
now is not living at home with mom and dad,
apparently when he goes missing, and that nobody in the
family understands the value of this jewelry. That seems very
(18:20):
specific to me.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, let me throw another major failure at you relative
to the relative to the players that are entering in
and off of the stage here, and that's the news media,
because I got to tell you, I'm thinking back right now.
I think I read my first newspaper. I was always
fascinated with newspapers when I was a kid. I probably
(18:45):
read my first newspaper before I was looking at newspapers,
before I could actually even read. I'm sure that I
had a newspaper spread out on the floor before me,
at least in nineteen sixty nine, taking silly putty and
(19:06):
placing it on the paper and lifting the images off
of it and stretching the faces all over the place.
So you're telling me that the newspapers in this area
could not be utilized in a manner in which you
could get this kid identified just based upon the clothing,
(19:28):
script and this jewelry. So it's a failure on the
part of local newspapers. We've got parents who we know
reported him missing. It's not like they've fallen off the
face of the planet. They're missing their child. Back during
that they think that he was missing during that's when
they called it in reported him missing, And so there's
(19:51):
a major disconnect. I know that they had television stations
in Kansas City back during this period of time. You're
not going to be able to go because this would
have been a big he would think about a sixteen
year old this found decomposing out in the woods and
he's got jewelry on.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And the only thing that we were told now is
they didn't they being law enforcement, they'd never mentioned how
long the remains had been decomposing. But the entry into
the National Missing and Unidentified Person Systems noted that he
had been deceased two to four weeks before his remains
(20:27):
were found. So mom and dad report him missing in
October or November. We don't even have an exact day
for when he was reported missing. We obviously have to
think he wasn't with his parents when he went missing
because they didn't know exactly when, So.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Did he run away? And then.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Then he's finding his way around Kansas and then two
to four weeks before his remains are found when he's
still a missing person. I guess I'm having trouble thinking
that a body has found that kind of matches a
description of a young man who has been reported missing
in your home state.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Well, you know you made the you made mentioned Dave
of the fact that or of you're you're wondering, you're
speculating as to whether or not whether or not he
died at the moment in time when he went missing,
or or had he been alive for a period of
(21:29):
time after that October November from because we're talking April
April seventy three, and they're saying in the registry that
low end he had been deceased. How long did they think?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Two to four weeks is what it says in the registry,
And I'm thinking that doesn't match up with advanced decomposition.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Was he had he had he moved in with somebody
sixteen years old? I don't I don't know that's the case.
But had he moved in with somebody, perhaps looking for shelter,
looking for comfort, I don't know. And then all of
a sudden they take issue with him and they decide
(22:15):
to end his life and then take him out to
this location that would inhibit his discovery for this period
of time. It's a fascinating thing to consider and to
try to, you know, kind of peel back the years
with this and try to understand, you know, all of
(22:37):
the principles. I would think they that were involved in
this case, if they're if they're not deceased, they're well
well up in to the latter part of their life.
I'll say that I would think that they would have
to be at least in certainly in their late seventies
early eighties.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, I figured fifty years. He's been gone fifty years.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, absolutely, and so I don't know that there would
still be anybody you could go and specifically question about
this and say, you know, well, what did you see
at that time? What did you notice? And that's one
of the important things in forensics day is that I
teach my kids at university that not only are they
(23:22):
training and being educated to become forensic investigators, but they're
also de facto historians too, because you take a case
like this and if you had failed back then at
that period of time to document everything that you saw,
because you know, we don't think that someday I'm going
to be gone and you know, you don't think that
(23:44):
way most of the time, particularly when you're young. Well,
it's going to be the case. You're going to be gone.
All that is going to remain are going to be
those notes that you took at that moment time when
you wrote them down, the things you've documented, the environment
that was there. If that's not well documented, then you're
gonna have a catastrophic failure. It might not occur for
(24:08):
five decades. I just want to revisit once again, this
clothing that Jimmy Dolson was wearing when he was discovered.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Joe, I need to know something because I'm hung up
on when he's reported missing in October November and remains
found April eighteenth. Okay, now, we know Kansas is cold
and that would change decomposition some But when you're out
there in the field and you're trying to determine how
(24:56):
long has this individual been here and there remains are
decomp somewhat, are you also going to be looking at
the clothing, the wear and tear on the clothing, and
whether or not animals have done their business. Are you
going to be able to get a handle on even
if the remains are not that you know, because again
they're saying two to four weeks that he'd been out there.
Is it possible he could have been out there much
(25:18):
longer than two to four weeks.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, it's going to throw deepening. And we don't know
anything from a meteorological standpoint about that late fall into
the winter. Tom held, did it get unseasonably cold in
the fall of nineteen seventy two in this particular region
where if he did die, it could in some level
(25:43):
retard the trajectory of the decomposition. It's hard, it's hard
to kind of parse that out. I think what we
do know is that when he was discovered and David,
this clothing list that you've provided me, Dave, is very
specific to this young man. And let me run it
down just so everybody understands. It's a brown corduroy jacket. Okay, Now,
(26:08):
it's not a heavy coat. It's a brown corduroy jacket.
It's not like your you know, your dress to go
to the Arctic or anything. A green long sleeve shirt.
I don't know about you, but I don't wear long
sleeve shirts generally in the summertime, most of the time
in late spring. I certainly don't. This is they're saying
the shirt was buttoned. Okay, so that's a big tail
(26:31):
for me because that means that the clothing is not
disrupted in any way. He's wearing jeans. They don't give
the color of the jeans. He's got a black leather belt.
It's got a large belt buckle. Now they don't give
us a descriptor on the belt buckle. Now, I don't
know about you. I've had enough cases where I've seen
(26:53):
people that you know, get belt buckles from Western stores
or they collected them from or something like that, and
they're very specific. If you've got a large they're describing
this thing as a large belt buckle. Well, what's what?
Is there an image? Is there an engraving on there
at all? He's wearing brown hiking boots, Dave. He's got
(27:18):
a navy blue stocking cap on as well. So you know,
from a practical standpoint, you got a jacket on, you've
got a stocking cap, you would think, well, he's trying
to keep his extremities, you know, warm. He's got heavy
boots on, hiking boots, and they're very specific about that.
(27:41):
And then you couple that with all of the jewelry.
But here's the thing. Even though the corner had all
of that data that they had collected at autopsy, of
course they observed it at the scene as well. Here's
the thing about it. The corner at the time when
they got Jimmy's body back to the medical legal facility
(28:04):
where they did his examination, they were able to determine
that he's a homicide victim. But David, I've got to
tell you, when it comes to the specifics of the injuries,
I'd say, we're greatly lacking here, aren't we.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I'm trying to figure out how much more they can
tell that they're not sharing. And again with no uh,
with no limit, no statute of limitations on a murder,
and they've described blunt force trauma right to the head,
I'm going I'm throwing that in there. I don't think
they said to the head. I think they said there's
some blunt force trauma, correct.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
They just said to me. In my reading, the idea
was that there were the body displayed trauma, right, and
that was essentially all they're saying. So, you know, trauma
comes in many forms. You can be sle you can
be shot, you can be run over, which is a
(29:05):
form of blunt force trauma, or you can be beaten
to death with an object. Heck, I mean trauma can
also depend upon how you view it can also be
framed in the sense that, well, do you have trauma
to his neck, like he's got external injuries that perhaps
they could still appreciate. There's underlying hemorrhage. Maybe he's been
(29:28):
punched in the throat.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeh.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Sadly, I have no idea when I said trauma to
the head, I just assumed that.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
But you're right.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
I went back through all my notes and in no
point does sayhead, just as trauma to his body. Now,
as we're looking at this all these years later, and
we're looking over the vagueness of this report, but the
very specific description of the clothes he's wearing in the jewelry,
it seems kind of odd that they would be so specific.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
About that, very vague about injuries.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
But you've got a missing sixteen year old and couldn't
figure out that this was the guy, And I guess
it's He was in Kansas City when he went missing
October November of seventy two, and the body has found
eighty miles away in nineteen say, for a seventy three
That doesn't seem like a great distance to us today.
(30:16):
Was it that much different then that eighty miles would
have been? I can't imagine, Joe, I just I guess
I'm sitting here thinking, how is it possible that law
enforcement didn't connect We've got a body over here of
a young I mean, they would know his gender, they
would know if he was white, black, Hispanic, they would
have the basics of ethnicity.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And you're gonna tell me they couldn't put two and
two together and go.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
We got a white kid missing over here, got a
white kid dead over here. Hey, let's just see if
the you know, we got very specific jewelry, very specific
clothing here. How is it possible that we don't know
who this is? Because they said they kept trying for
years and years and years, and it was only when
they got autrom when we get down of the genetics,
they couldn't figure it out based on cloth, clothing, on jewelry,
(31:02):
on a description of the body with trauma. That all
these years later, fifty years go by and now they're
doing genetic re engineering pretty much the DNA work that
Authoram does that is so intense. They have a maximum
period of time individuals are allowed to work.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
On a case on a given day.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, yeah, you can't work any longer. And I don't
know if our friends know this, but you can't work
any longer than about fifteen minutes and you have to
go for a break. The work that AUTHRAM does is
so labor intensive, and that's what they did. I'm sure
with Jimmy's case, the case itself, because it's been languishing
(31:45):
for these many years, the KBI actually referred the case
to AUTHRAM and got them involved. Unfortunately, Jimmy's siblings are
are still with us, and based upon the genetic material
that they retained from Jimmy's remains from all of those
(32:08):
years ago day, they were able to get his coating,
if you will, his genetic coating and placed that into
the system and they got to hit through this open
open sourcing of people that have their you know, their
(32:29):
DNA and the open source banks that are out there,
and they were able to confirm, you know, after you
get that hit, which is very important, the initial hit,
you know, and you're looking at maybe you know a
cousin or something, and you can track that back concentrically
and you say, okay, they're putting two and two together.
(32:50):
We've got a kid that was missing from nineteen seventy two.
We have these relatives right here and they're very very
close genetically in proximity to our victim. Let's go talk
to him. Can you imagine? Can you imagine you're a brother,
or a sister or maybe a cousin, and you're sitting
(33:10):
around in a knock comes to your door and it's
a law enforcement official and they say, we want to
ask you a question. I want to ask you a question.
Is there anybody in your family that's missing? Can you imagine?
And then all of a sudden you recall, yeah, my cousin,
my brother, my sister, you know, yeah, they've been missing
(33:32):
since nineteen seventy two. Well, guess what, guess what, here's
the big reveal we have. We have your loved one's remains,
and that's been made possible by the work that AUTHORAM
has done. And look to their credit with KBI, they
(33:54):
had the good sense to reach out to AUTHORM and
push this case toward them so that they could examine
it more closely and maybe get a hit, and in
this case they actually did. But again, look I have
to say this is an open homicide because the Corner
(34:16):
all those years ago ruled that Jimmy died as a
result of well, for us, it's non specific, but homicidal trauma.
That classified the thing as a homicide. That means that
this is an open case. That means that if there
is somebody out there that had anything to do with
(34:37):
Jimmy's homicide, they're on the hook for it, Dave, they
are on the hook for it.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Doesn't go away.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
The one reason we do these authorn cases, we try
to do them every so often.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
This one just happened to pop up this week.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yeah, while we were in Long Island, we knew we
were going to be doing the podcast in the Billy
Joel provided room. But this is so fresh. That's terms
of a case. It's just now in the media because
they just got this finished, and all I can think
of is author them to do their work to bring
I don't want to say closure, but to actually find
(35:14):
answers for families. They have to crowdfund. They have to
crowdsource fund. The ability to raise money and solve these
things as it does cost money, money, and time. I
can't imagine having a loved one missing and the difference
between identifying my child, my brother, my mom or dad
is seventy five hundred dollars to get started.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
And I have to you.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Know, not lot ofs don't have the money just laying around,
you know, but we can all donate. And that's how
they actually fund these things. Is not like author them Again,
I go back to all the things our government funds, Joe,
you're going to I just assumed there was a checking
account for medical research and things like this where you
just call the government say hey, I need you know
(35:56):
a couple hundred thousand dollars going to solve from crimes today.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That's that's just not the case. And it all depends
on where our priorities are as a people. I think
and for me, and I'm biased, I'll have to admit.
And it goes back to my earlier statement. I've stood
at gravesides where bodies have been buried that were unidentified,
and it's free investigator, and it's soul crushing. It's soul
(36:24):
crushing to see bodies placed into the ground and you
don't know who they are at all. But with the
work that Authoram is doing, it is it's a game
changer in the world of forensic science. It's a game
changer I think for just us as a people, that
(36:46):
we are able at some point in time to provide
maybe comfort to a family because all these years, you know,
Jimmy's family. You know, I like to use the empty
chair analogy. There's always an empty chair at the table.
You know how many Christmases, how many Thanksgivings went without
(37:07):
him being there? No matter what had happened in the past,
it doesn't matter. You know what has occurred, what kind
of falling out that somebody may have had, what kind
of words were said, And we don't know enough at
this point in time, but there's something that separated that
separated Jimmy from his family at sixteen years of age,
(37:29):
where he was out there alone and his body has
been left discarded. I urge all of our listeners to
please please visit dnasols dot com and you can look
over the cases that are there and see if there
is anything that you know, perhaps piqued your interest, a
(37:53):
case that you would like to be involved with, the
case that you would like to support. Again, that's dnasolves
dot com. Have one more that I would like to
pass on to you as well, and that is the
tip line for the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. Keep in mind,
you can help solve a homicide, all right. I just
(38:14):
want to say that plainly. You can help solve this homicide.
Maybe it's a comment that was made in passing. Maybe
somebody out there was in the joint with somebody at
some point in time and somebody said something. Then you
never know what scrap of information might help out. But
here's the tip line for the Kansas Bureau of Investigation.
(38:37):
It's one eight hundred KS crime. That's one eight hundred
ks c r IM and we want to see we
want to see if we can solve the homicide of
Jimmy Alan Dollson, who went missing in the fall of
(39:00):
nineteen seventy two, was discovered in April of nineteen seventy three,
and as a result of the work that our friends
at Authoram Labs performed, was identified in twenty twenty five.
(39:20):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Backs
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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