May 27, 2025 • 51 mins
All Three were doing drugs and having sex with one another. Jamie Carrol goes to get more drugs, when he comes back, Jeffrey Mundt and Joey Banis, kill Carrol and take his money and drugs. Mundt and Banis then dig a hole in the basement of the Mansion and bury the body of Jamie Carroll. The couple gets away with murder.....until seven months later, police respond to a 911 call about domestic abuse. Jeffrey Mundt says his boyfriend, Joey Banis is going to kill him. When cops arrive on scene they take Joey Banis into custody and leave Jeffrey Mundt at the house. As police take Banis to jail, he begins telling them a story of drug, sex, and a body buried in the basement. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the murder of one man, and the lies of the two that tried to blame each other for a murder they almost got away with.....almost.
Transcribe Highlights
00:14.75 Introduction - Holding on to the past
01:47.61 Case involves a bit of digging
03:57.84 Completely nude man, running in a hotel hallway, jump out a window
05:14.22 Brain in the hot tub. Had to use skimmer net
09:54.57 Cops aren't sure where they are supposed to go
15:03.97 Too much money, too much time on their hands
20:17.42 When do police realize the story they are being told might seem strange, but it is real
25:32.77 Older homes with basement hard pack
30:00.25 Killers best plan to put body into rubber tub is to use a sledge hammer to break up the body
35:18.84 Joey and Jeffrey were a couple
40:36.57 Body produces decomp fluid
45:40.59 Post mortem x-ray of a body
50:12.66 One man murdered for his drugs and money
51:11.40 Conclusion
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body dimes, but Joseph's gotten more, you know. Down in
New Orleans. One of the things that New Orleanians have
pride themselves on is holding on to the past. And
holding on to the past is really played out down
there in the sense that there are so many old
(00:21):
homes that have survived all of these years, these decades.
As a matter of fact, things that you can't imagine
would still be standing, you know. And it's not just termites.
It's hurricanes, fires, cholera, outbreaks, yellow fever. But yet the
structures remain. And the thing about structures is that they
(00:44):
have a story to tell. Over the years, people have
asked me on any number of occasions, do you ever
see ghost because of what I did for a living?
And I have to be honest with you, I never have.
I never have. I've never seen any kind of spiritual
manifestation in my presence or anything like that. However, there
(01:07):
is something within me that believes that places are haunted.
I don't know what it is. There are just certain
locations you can go to and you kind of get
a chill. Well, one such place exists in Louisville, Kentucky,
and we're going to talk about that place today because
this particular location, which is an old Victorian house, is
(01:32):
actually on the Haunted Tour of the City of Louisville.
I think you might enjoy it. Let's dig in. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. I saw
Dave laughing when I said dig in, because this case
in particular involves a bit of digging. But let me
(01:54):
back up. I have to say that I am doing
this episode because my wife asked me to Kimmy. You know,
I always talk about Kimmy, and how can I say
no to her? And the reason I did is she
was doing some reading and actually, I have to full
(02:17):
full disclosure, she was actually doing some research for me
on buried bodies, and she said, you gotta do this case.
Case is fascinating. It's got so many twists and turns,
and look a lot of other people have done this.
All right, you can just go online and kind of
check it out. But the reason she wanted me to
do this is because it reminded her of a case
(02:39):
that I worked when I was in Atlanta. And before
I tell you about today's case, let me tell you
about that case. There were three men that had come
to Atlanta, and they were staying in one of the
high Rose hotels in downtown in Atlanta, and there's several
of them down there. I'm not going to name the hotel,
(03:01):
but for three days they had stayed in a room
doing crystal meth and having unbridled sex with one another
for three days and many times, what you will have
is that, particularly when a number of different types of drugs,
(03:22):
but crystal meth in particularly, I think that there is
a drug induced psychosis that takes place many times with
folks that you know, imbibe if you will. And in
this particular case, they were on the twenty second floor.
This individual came running past the bank of elevators there
(03:46):
a lady was getting on with her child. He's completely nude,
he's screaming, and he runs to the end of the
hallway and jumped through a window, a floor to ceiling
plate glass window. Plummets. Are you ready for this? Plummets
(04:08):
all these floors down. It's in the summertime. He hits
when he impacts the object below, which is actually the
top of the pool house adjacent to this big fancy pool,
his head splits open and a large portion of his
brain flies out of his head and lands in the
(04:32):
hot tub, and there's kids, families, you know, that are
swimming in the big pool. Thankfully there was no one
in the hot tub at the time. That case, as
you can imagine, kind of stuck with me all these
many years, and I remember distinctly coming home and telling
my wife about it, and you know, it's like one
(04:53):
of those moments, you can't make this stuff up. And
as a matter of fact, if I tried to take
that story probably to Hollywood and into a producer's office,
they laughed me out because it just seem like it's
completely implausible. But it's amazing to me, Dave the circumstances
that humans put themselves in many times, and our story
(05:14):
today involves involves three individuals that had put themselves into
some interesting positions.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
A brain in the hot tub. Yeah, I'm not eating
one time soup anymore. That's done with that.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
You know. The bad thing about it is as ghastly
as this is, we had to use the skimmer neet
to get the to get that remnant of brain. And
the other thing about it is is that there was
and I felt so sorry for these family members that
were subjected to this. They were the uh there was
(05:54):
blood like leaking down the front of the pool house
and he was laying there and you know, his head
is completely shattered. You could see him from that perspective.
I remember trying to take photos from where I was standing.
You couldn't really appreciate it because it's so many floors up.
And let me tell you something. This is This is
(06:15):
one of those moments, Dave, when I was terrified because
I was on the it was above twenty floors. It
seemed that the number twenty two stands out to me,
and I remember getting vertigo. I was standing there looking
out of that window. And you know when you're if
you've never been into a big city, folks, and you're
(06:37):
on top of one of these buildings, and I've been
on several because I've had to work jumpers. Those buildings
create a canyon, and so win just like it. It
might it might be completely steady on the ground, but
you get up at that elevation and the wind whips
through those those those streets and the avenues and everything,
(07:00):
and it kind of it literally swirls up there. It's
really dangerous. I mean, it's terrifying. I remember thinking I'm
going to get swept out of this thing. I went
so far as to lay on the floor and crawl
toward the opening and the glass and started taking pictures.
And of course nothing I took really turned out. We
had a crime scene tech at that particular time that
(07:20):
was working for Atlanta Police Department, and they happened to
have a telephoto lens and they needed it anyway. They
had to take their own care, and I wound up
getting some of their images and it beat all I'd
ever seen. I'd never seen anything happen like this. It's
like a It's like a cerebral of visceration, you know,
(07:42):
by uh, well, let me tell you how doctors define
this and this is this is kind of funny. Pathologist
will actually list a cause of death and get that.
You're going to love this. I can see it coming.
One of the one of the things they talk about
with motor vehicle accents and fall. The beauty of this
(08:03):
the logic they say death as a result of rapid deceleration, right,
and this is that was the ultimate in a rapid
deceleration death. Okay, and you see it in motor vehicle accents,
but that you know, you're gonna fall. I don't know
that at twenty twenty two stories, if it was that,
(08:24):
if you could actually heat hit terminal velocity, I don't
think that you could. But you're you're cooking when you
and it's not like being in a car. It's just you, man,
it's just you against mother Earth at that point in time,
and that that pool house and he just impacted. I
mean it was dead center. Man, it was dead center.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Mom's everywhere. Yeh, kids going come on mom.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Oh. I felt so sorry. Man. There were little kids
down there too. It was horrible. It was horrible. I
don't know what it was about. And I know other
medical legal death investigators around the country that if there's
any out there, I know that many of them have
jumper stories because they're not they're not things that happen regularly,
but you do get enough of them, particularly if you
(09:07):
work in obviously large rural I mean, excuse me, large
urban areas, you'll get them. And I've had bridge jumpers,
building jumpers, what else. I've had a guy that fell
through an open an open hatch on a supertanker, and
you wouldn't believe what the inside of an empty supertanker
(09:28):
looks like because it had been emptied of oil and
I had to go down the internal ladder. I was
terrified there too, and he hit the eyebeam down there again.
Rapid deceleration injuries. So yeah, just because they're dead doesn't
mean that you're not in danger as a death investigator.
But hey, Dave, this this case today.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think it's case back to the one you already started.
Let's talk about look kind of transfer this particular case though.
We're not talking about a hotel, but we're talking about
a building that is so old, a house that is
sold that the actual police that show up think it
could be multiple apartments. They don't even know exactly where
to go because it's such a beautiful, beautiful place.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
It's gorgeous merge.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And that's why when a nine one one call comes in,
just give your heads up here. First of all, you
already know we're going to be telling a story about
three men. Yeah, because you kind of let the cat
out of the bag when you told us the gay
story in the hotel. And rapid deceleration, which is not
going to leave my brain now for a long time.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Don't say to leave your brain, please, don't. Let's not
talk about that.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I could have done without them, but at any rate.
Jamie Carroll is a hairstylist and he also is gay,
and he decides to leave his small town upbringing to
go to an area where he can find more acceptance.
So he goes to the big city and things don't
work out real really as.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Fast as they need to.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
He's having trouble making bills, and like many people do,
he's starts dealing drugs a little bit on the side
to try to make ends meet. Usually when you start
doing that, it's because you actually are using drugs too,
and in that party lifestyle, and you use the drug
selling to add to your purchasing in anyway, you ended
(11:16):
up becoming a drug dealer, you know. And so Jamie
Carroll was a hairstylist who ended up down a very
bad path for himself because he seemed like a very
nice man. Jeffrey Mount is an incredibly well educated guy.
He's a top official at Northwestern University. He actually was
(11:36):
doing a technology overhaul for the university. Imagine that. Imagine
what it would be like to be a charge of
doing a technology overhaul for a top ten college. Yes,
Northwestern's up there.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I mean, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's certainly in the top twenty now
one of the most expensive colleges in the exactly as
well in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Jeffrey Munt very well paid. And by the way, is
he's very loud about his alternative lifestyle. Right, he is
not in the closet. There's not a closet in his house.
And everyone he works with knows this about him. He
doesn't want this to be something that is you know,
(12:20):
comes back and gets him. So he's very outward. He's
gay anyway. Well, he also has another friend, and this
guy is Joey Bayness. Now Joey comes from a very
well to do family. His dad's a surgeon. I think,
big money, lots of connections. But for whatever reason, Joey
(12:40):
is the He's the black chep of the family. If
he's an only child, he's still the black cheap of
the family. And he's just that kid that he grew
up with all of the possible opportunities and advantages that
anyone person can have and turned his back on him
and got tatted up and ran down a fellony highway.
So and also gay, also into drugs as a matter
(13:04):
of fact, Joey and Jamie were close as druggies drug pals. Well,
Joey is dating Jeffrey month and they have I'm trying
to find the right way to put this a lover's quarrel. Yeah,
(13:24):
And Jeffrey calls nine to one one. He's scared to
death that Joey is going to kill him. His boyfriend's
going to kill him, right, And so the police arrive.
Now here you have this incredible home that again I say,
the police couldn't even find it right off because they
show up that building, but it looks like it's a
(13:45):
it's an apartment complex. It does not look like one home.
And can I can't imagine that, Joe. I mean you've been.
You mentioned how New Orleans and even certain areas of
Atlanta have these kinds of homes that are so big
that you just look at it and go, that's it's
not the Clampet's going who lives upstairs?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Noose?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
They're big homes.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, And I've been, and you know, I got to
tell you in case anyone's ever wondered about this, And
I hate to say this, but when you show up
on a scene where you're dealing with individuals that have
power and money and they live this kind of ostentatious
(14:27):
kind of lifestyle where you first off, you know the
value of the properties in there, and everything is perfectly
manicured when you show up there and listen. Bad things
happen in those neighborhoods as well. People doesn't happen as
with greater frequency as it does if you're out with
you know, people that are just struggling day to day
(14:47):
and they don't have a lot of money, but things
still and sometimes things get really dark in those environments.
Sometimes I think that many people have too much money
and too much time on their hands, is the way
it plays out. They're not they're not putting forth in
life to go down a good path, to try to
I don't know, to try to benefit themselves and other folks,
(15:09):
and they get distracted and they wind up in drugs
and you know, and in this particular case, if I
had been the investigator that would showed up, would have
shown up, I probably think the same thing. You know,
what unit is this in?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It ain't in a unit. It's in the house.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It is the house. It is the house.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And I you know, and I've been and listen, I've been.
I've been in homes before. I've been like in Creole
where for its Creole mansions in New Orleans, everything's leaded class.
They've still got the original medallions on the ceiling where
the chandeliers are hanging down from and you walk through it,
and as you know, a kid that grew up really poor, i'd,
(15:49):
you know, I'd i'd look around, you know, in these places,
and I'd say, you know, why am I here? And
then I have to tell myself, I'm a death investigator.
That's why I'm here. And I've got somebody that's dead,
and you have to fourth and do the job.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, that's I was going to ask you about this
because this one started off with a domestic violence call,
and most of us know that police hate a domestic
violence call. They're horrible because they can go so bad,
so fast. And I don't think there's any difference between
boy girl boy boy girl girl. Domestic violence is domestic violence,
(16:22):
you know, and they're just as risky no matter who
it is. And in this case, Jeffrey Munt, the super
educated rich guy, is on nine one, is on the
phone telling them that his boyfriend Joey bane is his
beating is he's going to kill him. And so when
the police get there, they find Joey. He's tatted up
and he Joey tells them a story. They cuff him
(16:44):
and take him downtown. Now Joey knows he's got a
lot of legal issues, he's had a history with law enforcement.
Jeffrey mont meanwhile, not so much. And so they take
Joey downtown. They believe Jeffrey Munt is the victim him
and on the way there, Joey says, hey, man, I
(17:04):
got a story for you. Basically, you guys are taking
me to jail for this. I got you sure you're yeah,
you think that guy's all that, Well, you know what,
I got a much better story to tell you. It
ain't just about boy boy fight. How about a dead body.
And we're not talking the movie where the kids are
trying to find that the kid. This is yeah, it's
(17:25):
not stand by me. This is a murder and it
happened at that house you just left. As a matter
of fact, there's a dead body in that house. It's
in the basement used to be the wine cellar. I think,
I mean, he lays it all out there for him Joe.
Now you've already pointed out that these are pretty impressive homes.
(17:46):
This type of a home is already a legendary home.
And police, you know, cops as much as I do,
probably better when you're getting a story from a guy
who's got a fell in a rap sheet, Yeah, do
you believe him or do you kind of go, yeah,
he's just trying to get out of his latest rap.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I'm going to believe probably about two thirds of what
they say, because yeah, and that's you always feel like
you're being leveraged for something else, right, because many times
guys that have been in the system, they know how
to work the system. And it all depends, it all
depends on uh, you know, if you think about the
spinning wheel of fate, it all depends on which officer
(18:27):
that arrow comes to rest on. And sometimes it comes
to rest on somebody that begins to believe the story,
and it's going to follow up, and when they do
follow up, they're not going to believe what they see. Drugs.
(18:55):
I think it goes without saying ruin everything, and it's
not just necessarily illicit drugs that are out there. Be
honest with you, there are certain things that are. I
don't want to mention any names that are illegal that
might not should be. But you know, you can have
(19:17):
even people that are addicted to prescription drugs that are
out there and it destroys lives. And in this case,
these individuals, Dave had developed such a hunger. And I
don't I don't necessarily think that our victim in this
case was the first supplier that they've ever had. I
(19:39):
think that he was probably a means to an end
and that there had been dabbling going on all the while.
But Dave, you've got to kind of lay us out
for me, because you know, if you're if you're a
police officer, you know, and you're hurt, you hear that
you have a body in the basement of the house
(20:00):
he just came from. How'd the body get there? Because
this guy's got to leave the story out. You got
me on the hook now, I want to hear it,
you know. So I'm thinking as a cop.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
I was looking at it from the stand.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
When I was going back over this, I was trying
to figure out at what point do police actually go.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
He's giving too many details. We need to take this seriously.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, I think it happened pretty quick, because you've got
to realize that you have a situation of domestic violence.
You've got one guy in cuffs headed downtown and he's
offering up something that is a murder, and he's saying
that my partner is the one that did it, and
he's laying it out there and explaining everything that took place.
And this was where the three way comes into play.
(20:42):
You know, we mentioned the victim right off the bat
is a guy named Jamie Carroll. He is a hairstylist
who also dabbles in drug selling. Well, Jamie, Jeffrey Munt,
and Joey bain Is get together for a party at
Jeffrey's house and they are partying hard and they run
(21:07):
out of drugs and Jamie says, no worries, guys, I'll
go get some more drugs. And so while Jamie leaves
the party to go get the drugs, the meth they're
snorting myth. And most of us know that meth amphetamine
is one of these drugs that keeps you up for
(21:27):
days day, keep it for a long time, and depending
on the type and it is, it can do a
lot of things. But they were using myth. Jamie goes
to get the meth while he's gone, Joey and Jeffrey,
now depending on who you listened to, came up with
a plan to let's kill j Let's kill Jamie when
it gets back. We'll take his drugs and his money.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh so this is pillow talk then, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Apparently yeah apparently so yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So they're in the post codal bliss now at this
point in tom and they've run out of drugs because
you cannot continue on in this fueled passion. And so,
you know, I think about this, this guy, this kid
has come to town right just so that he can
(22:12):
kind of fit in. He's got a job cutting hair,
he can't make ends meet, and was you know, you
have to look back and think, was this even on
this kid's radar? You know, like that this could happen
to him. And it just goes from bad to worse
at this point in time, Dave, please get it.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
It was. It was just as bad.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
The biggest problem they had da being the police is
that they're being told a story by a convicted felon,
by Joey Bainis, and he tells them that when Jamie
comes back, that he said, Joey said, Joey tells police, well,
I was tired and I needed to take a break,
(22:56):
so I went into Now again, you're having a gay
sex party weekend. And Joey says, I'm tired, and he
goes into a different room where he watches pornography while
the other two guys are still going at it, and
then he hears something bad happening there. He claims that
Jeffrey Munt shot Jamie Carroll in the face, strangled him,
(23:20):
or beat him. I mean, any number of things going on.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And when.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Joey is telling the police this, imagine what they're thinking,
Joe because you've got somebody who is saying, there is
a body stabbed and shot in this beautiful home and
we just left there and didn't see any bloody scins. Well,
(23:49):
this happened several months ago. It didn't just happen.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think it was like seven months.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
It was seven months earlier. Yes, And that's the whole point.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
He's going, this happened months ago, and they're like, well,
where's the body. Then, well, we went downstairs and I
helped him. Now I didn't help him kill him. Jeffrey
Munn did the killing, but I helped him. We went
into the store and got a fifty gallon tub, rubber
made tub yep, and we got back. We were going
(24:18):
to put him in the tub, dig a hole and
bury him, and we dug the hole. They dug the
whole five feet deep. Joe. Now, I don't know about you,
but I have dug a few holes in my life,
and I will tell you when you're dealing when you're
digging a hole by hand, when you start looking at
two feet deep by hand, is tough. When they were
(24:39):
at the bottom of this beautiful old home, they were
at bedrock man.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, I can't let me interject here because I've had
like several cases, one in particular that stands out mind
a by a guy that he beat his grandmother to
death who was living with his grandmother, and she lived
in an equally old ho home probably about this age.
It was more of a craftsman style home. It wasn't
(25:05):
like a Victorian mansion, but it had an external cellar
door where it was a It was a packed floor,
but it wasn't It wasn't like a concrete base or anything.
But you could walk in. You had headroom, is what
I'm saying. And the grandson in the case that I'm
talking about right now ran into the same problem that
(25:27):
this pair ran into, and that is they're in because
the grandson in my case, this was in Atlanta, did
a horrible job, all right, of trying to conceal it.
It was. It was ghastly and all those sorts of things.
But when you're talking about digging that at that depth,
(25:48):
they had to use pick axes. And you know, most
of time we think about, well, I'm going to go
in the backyard and do some gardening. Perhaps, well I'm
going to take a shovel with me, and well, when
you go into the backyard, most of the time you're
digging through a layer of sedtlement top soil, that sort
of thing. It can you might think that it's a struggle,
but it loosens up. You go down to a basement
(26:11):
of a home that's over one hundred years old, okay,
and you try to stick a shovel in a packed
clay floor. Because the one thing that we know about
old homes is that we've always heard the tie where
they settle, and you'll hear them creaking and cracking and
all that sort of things. I guess it's one of
(26:32):
the charms of an old house. I've had a couple
of old houses. But it's also terrifying too. But as
it's settling quote unquote settling, it's going it's dropping. You know,
the entire time and the entire environment around it is
either rising or it is shifting with the settling of
the home, depending upon how the house was originally constructed.
(26:56):
And that settled home in the basement, is that dirt
down there is getting tighter and tighter and tighter. Just
imagine over one hundred years of this happening. It's almost
like somebody turning a screw to where it's not sufficient
just to turn the screw to get something locked in
with it. You're going to go beneath the surface of
(27:17):
that you're screwing the screw into and it's going deeper
and deeper, and all of a sudden you realize, my god,
this is going to take forever. Are we ever going
to get through down to the bottom depths here? Well,
they finally did.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Lots of men later. Yeah, there's the Jamie's math. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah. And you know the thing about it is they
took this poor poor man and he came back and
I'll use the term in good faith. He came back
in good faith. He's the supplier. Yeah, all right, the
party going and he's got the money. And keep in mind,
money is really what he wanted, you know, you talked
about that from the top, Dave. Money is what he wanted,
(27:59):
just to survive. And here it is that thing that
he had desired so much to get away from small
town USA, to come to the big city. He may
have had his pockets full when he arrived back. He
had to dope with him and for that he was butchered. Well, brother, debut. Now,
(28:33):
let me get this straight. He didn't go down to
the funeral home, and by they didn't go down to
the funeral home and buy the I don't know, the
super duper twenty thousand dollars lead lined titanium casket.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
They didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
They ran down the street to whoever it was, and yeah,
and they picked up the rubber maid. Right. I think
there's nobody. I bet there's nobody within the sound of
a voice right now that can't identify with one of
these containers. My lord, My life is a series of
these ruber mad containers putting Christmas decorations in it, and
baby pictures and school books and everything else and putting
(29:12):
them out in the shit. Right, everybody can identify with this.
The problem is, unlike a coffin or casket, bodies generally
fit in those. In this particular case, that ain't what happened, Dave.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
They're dealing with a couple of things, Joe. Because they're high.
They've been up for a long time, so they're not
in their right mind anyway when they decide to go
and get this fifty gallon tub. But when they get back,
now I'm a little I'm not sure exactly when they
dug the hole. I don't know that because they say
(29:50):
they went to the store and when By the time
they got back with the fifty gallon rubber made as
well as a rubber foam to seal it up with
that rigor mortis had set in. Yeah, and mortis, and
they did not fit the body in the tub that way.
And in their best way of thinking, this super intelligent,
(30:11):
highly educated, overpaid Northwestern University cat and his convicted fellon boyfriend,
the best plan they could come up with to get
this body into the rubber made tub was to use
a sledgehammer and break it up.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
The country mouse that came to the city, right, Yeah,
the breaking up Jamie. Yeah, here's the thing about it.
And let's talk about rigor riger however you want to
pronounce it, anything's okay with me. The thing about rigor
mortis is that once it sets in, you can manually
(30:49):
break it. You don't have to use a sledgehammer to
do it. But if you're if you're not familiar with
the dead, a lot of people walk around out there
thinking that once rigidity sets in and the body it
is for there forever and ever. Amen, Listen, After about
thirty six hours, and a lot of it depends on
upon the environment, bodies start to become flaccid again. The
(31:14):
stiffness that lactic acid begins to dissipate, and suddenly the
body becomes flaccid once more. You can generally kind of
fold the body up as best you can, but Dave,
they and even if you're in full rigidity, And I've
had this happen because I've had to break Breake Rider
on the table before. And when I say break, don't
(31:38):
misconstrue that I'm not breaking something like, you know, taking
a sledgehammer and cracking the dead over their knees. That's
not what we do. It will set in in the arms,
it sets in the legs, the hips, the head, the neck.
So all it requires is manipulation. And you can actually
(32:01):
bend at the knee. Now, if you're going to try
to put him into this this plastic container, that can
be accomplished without having to do something. I mean, look,
they've already gone down the road of being ghastly here.
I mean, let's just let's face it, all right, I guess,
look what more can we do. Let's get the sledgehammer,
you know, and and assault the dead the dead here,
(32:24):
and that's what they chose to do. But you could
easily manipulate a body just by manual manipulation. You can
work it out of the joints. And because just think
about all of the bodies, think about this, I'll tell
you why we have to do in the more. If
you've got somebody that dies, say seated in a chair, okay,
and their their arms are resting resting on the arm rest.
(32:49):
All right, Let's say they've committed suicide and they die
in the chair, their arms on the on the on
the arm rest. Well, when we take them out of
that chair, guess what, when I was in the army.
They used to put us in what's called the dying
cockroach position. And what that meant as for punishment, we'd
lay on our back, we'd have to hold our arms
up and our legs up. It looked like a dying cockroach.
(33:10):
You had to stay there in that position. It looks
like the dying cockroach position. If anybody's been in the military,
you're familiar with that. So we would in the morgue.
We would actually have to break riger in the shoulders
and in the elbows, because if you didn't, when you
go to make the initial incision and in visperation of
the body, you're fighting with the dead person's arm because
(33:33):
they're in the way, so you want the arms at
their side. And yeah, it takes a little bit of work,
but to go to this degree which they did, adds
another level of just a real disgusting situation, goes to
horrific at this point.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
To jump to the end here, they buried him in
five feet deep. They were able to get in with
the sledgehammer. They paun Jamie's body into this little fifty
yelling rubber maid tub and they said the police said
it was five feet down. These guys doug by hand
five feet deep in this basement, and then they covered
(34:12):
the body with lime I'm guessing inside the rubber maid thing. Yeah,
and buried it and it was there for seven months.
Seven months go by, and that's when the domestic phone
call comes into nine one one, where Joey Bainis actually
tells police there's a body in the basement and it
was right where he described it pretty much, and so
(34:33):
they were able to dig it up.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But investigators actually referred to this Dave as let's see,
I saw one headline relative to this, how to screw
up a perfect murder. Yep, because if you just kept
your mouth shut, yep, no one probably would have been
the wiser at all. Who else is going to go
into maybe the next homeowner, you know, whenever you pass on,
(34:57):
you'd still have to do something in the body if
you sell it though, I'm sorry, go ahead, No.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Dude, he was just trying to get out of a
DV charge. Either that or because these guys were they
were a couple. That's the one thing I want to
be because I I was looking at this as a
little bit differently, kind of as a three way hookup,
just guys party in and got together. Even though Joey
Bainis and Jeffrey Munt hadn't been years long together. They'd
(35:20):
met on a dating site and they were a couple.
They invited their drug dealer friend to join the party.
He was friends with Joey, so it was it really
was worse than what I thought to start with, if
you can be worse. But you know what, Joe, they
kill this guy for his drugs and his money and
(35:42):
bury his body in the basement. But then a month
later they actually get arrested.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Again.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You got a dead body in your basement and you
go to Chicago, stay in a really expensive hotel and
they're trying to pass fake money.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, this is oh my gosh, I completely forgot about
this element. I think it was month that was actually
involved in counterfeiting. Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I could I could talk all.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Day about you know, uh, counterfeiting and that sort of thing.
From a forensics perspective and as a death investigators, you know,
I've only had one case that involved somebody that was
involved in counterfeiting and it turned out to be like
one of the most renowned in the country. This guy
(36:33):
did and he died in Atlanta in a walk up
kind of. It's not really a flophouse he was renting.
It was like a two room and the two room
didn't have a bath. You had a shared bath down
the hallway. But David I went he died in the bed.
It was a natural death. But David I went into
(36:53):
his room and he had money hanging from clothesline or
string in there, like it was drying. I'd never seen anything,
you know, you see stuff like that in the movies,
and I'd never never thought about and it takes a
certain level of skill. But they were they when they
were arrested, Dave and again, they were trying to pass
(37:15):
funny money to a merchant and they picked up on
it immediately, you know, so I g you know, the
quality was probably not that good. And I go back
to mont with this. You know, you mentioned you would
think that he would be giving his academic background and
(37:35):
his status at Northwestern, he would be a bit more
sophisticated than all of this, like he would rise above it.
But you know he's he's really loud, boisterous and oh,
by the way, yeah, he loves meth and he loves
counterfeit money. You know. You know, look, we can go
on and on about this this kid that owned the
(37:57):
house and his run ins with the law, and you know,
he's you know, he's been on a dark path. But
the darkest path of all to me is Mont you know,
because it's it's just people that seem, in my experience
at least, to seem to have it all of course,
and then when you kind of peel back those layers, Uh,
(38:19):
it's it's so incredibly dark. You wonder what else they've
been involved in in their life.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Buddy.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Well, you know the reason I added that is that
that was like four weeks after they killed Jamie Carroll
and buried him in the basement. They're together, party in
and they try to pass the fundy money and you
know who tipped him off, the doorman, the guy at
the hotel. You know this, right, But when they do,
when the cops show up, they have him. He's got months,
(38:47):
got a gun and your gun. Now, at the time
they didn't know anything about the gun. But now that
they found a dead body in the basement, you've got
to tell me the condition Because the gun that Jeffrey
got caught with him and Joey, and that's the gun
that was used to shoot Jamie Carroll. But what kind
(39:07):
of condition after seven months is Jamie Carroll's body going
to be in after being sealed up in a rubber
made fifty gallon tub, buried five feet deep in the
basement of a home in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Imagine imagine Louisville, Chicago. Yeah, Louisville. Imagine the nastiest human
soup that you can imagine after that period of time.
So in the bottom of this tub, which by the way,
it's plastic, so it is going to be sweating internally, Okay,
(39:41):
inside of this thing, it's it's got it's kind of
because as the body is breaking down, and again we've
talked about autolytic changes, which is auto meaning self, So
it's like self digestion of the body a cellular level
that's going to leach out, and so as it leaches
(40:01):
out through the cells, the body produces again the file
substance known a man, which is decomp fluid. Got a
great story about that sometimes we have another time to
talk about that. It actually involves a good friend of
mine and his brand new pair of lace up a
white buck buck low first that he had. But that's
(40:23):
the story for another day. Stay tuned and that you're
you're not going to have necessarily the same insect activity. Now,
trust me, five feet of earth is still going to
ring the dinner bell for flies. They're going to show up.
I'd like to know, for instance, let's just start at
(40:44):
the top. I'd like to know if they had hung
like pest trips in the basement, because flies are going
to show up even with that much distance between them.
I've found that flies, if there is a way they're
going to they're going to find a way. I mean,
just think about common house slaves. You think that your
house is all sealed up, maybe it's when you bring
the grocers in from out of the car. They're going
(41:06):
to slip through your door. They're going to wind up
in the house with you. And there's even a type
of fly that you find in caskets that come up
as a result of us dysentering a body, and they're
called coffin flies, and they have the ability to burrow
down through the earth and get inside of a casket.
(41:27):
So you find those in a lot of caskets that
are out there and in dwelling bodies. So it's just
it's a natural thing that occurs. But back to the
soup inside of this plastic container. You're going to have
a You're going to have probably about an inch of
fluid just on the bottom. I'd say after seven months
(41:49):
like this, the skin is going to be greatly softened.
It'll have kind of it won't have a pinked up
appearance to it. It will have begun to turn black
and green. You would have by seven months, you're going
to probably have protrusion, particularly at the joint areas. If
(42:09):
he's bent, you're going to have elements of the skeleton
that are poking through at that point in time. And
since this is not a dry this is what's referred
to as a as a wet t comp Since it's
not dry like laying dow on the ground where you
have exposure to sunlight, the skin is going to be
(42:33):
or the tissue rather, it's going to be very very spongy,
like I've actually removed bodies at this far down the
line and further and when you and even with a
gloved hand, Dave, and this is one of the more
disgusting things I've ever had to do as a death investigating,
and it happened to me all the time. I think
those things that you hate so much, they either stand
in your mind that happen to you with more frequency,
(42:54):
the more you dread them.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Where you would grab.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
A body and it was in such a state of decay,
the body doesn't pull apart, but your hands, your fingertips
actually sink through the tissue as you're removing the body,
and you can feel your fingertips going into the body
to a certain depth. That's what they would have experienced.
But my thought is more than likely hopefully they did
this when they were able to understand down in that basement,
(43:23):
which would have been a horrible area to have had
to have worked in if you were the corner investigator
or the emmy investigator. Certainly the crime scene people that
were down there, and of course the homeside detective once
they saw this body in this contained plastic thing that
they had purchased. I'm hoping they didn't take the body
(43:43):
out of the container at the scene, and this would
have been a yeoman's task to get this thing up
out of the ground and then move it probably up
a staircase. Imagine this and a think slashing around inside
of there, just slashing back and forth, and you can
(44:04):
hear it and the more you move out into the
open air. Guess who really does show up now, it's
going to be the flies. And I don't care if
it's in the dead of winter, they're going to show
up and they're going to be lighting on you to
get to that body. If you're still wearing the same gloves,
you look down at your gloves and you've got flies
all over your hands, it's because they smell it. It's
like ringing the dinner bell for them. But on the
(44:27):
other hand, if they kept the body inside of that
container and they take it back to the morgue, I'm
a big I'm a big fan of X rays. If
you can X ray that body in place, and this
goes to the fact that got caught with this weapon,
if the projectile is still in the body. If you
(44:48):
do X rays of the entire tub with the body
still in place, and that lead core projectile is still
in the body, as decaying as the body might appear,
you can still see that radio opaque image of the
bullet within the body. And one of the interesting things
(45:13):
that you see I've never talked about this. I'm going
to mention here one of the interesting things that you
see on post warm X rays with decomposing bodies. Did
you know that? Internally you begin to see these systems
that are breaking down, and within the body itself you
(45:34):
can see the little gas pockets inside the body and
you have to do a double take at it because
they're kind of outlined. You can kind of see an
outline of them, and they like a normal X ray,
if you have a fresh dead it's going to look
pretty much like like someone's xtually that was taken in life.
But if you get a decomp and you X ray them,
(45:55):
the interior of the body is going to look completely
different than if you have the fresh deet that you're
working with, or like a living patient. But the key
is to try to locate that bullet or that projectile,
and hopefully they did and they have this weapon, and
lo and behold, this idiot is still carrying the weapon.
So let me get this straight. You go to all
(46:17):
this trouble to dig through packed clay with a pick
axe and a shovel. You buy a container, you stuff
him in it, you dig it five feet deep by
the way, you stick him into the bottom of it,
and then you cover the thing up and now you're
(46:38):
going to run buck wild up in Chicago passing funny money.
Oh and by the way, carrying the same weapon that
you murdered a guy with. Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know really what they're hiring practices are at Northwestern.
I got questions, I got questions. I'd like to know.
I'd like to know, you know, what is it that
(46:58):
was so special about this guy? But Dave, I just
I think that everyone would like to know what actually
became of these two desperadoes.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Well, as I mentioned earlier, you know, Joey Banis had
a track record of convictions. He is the one whose
dad was a surgeon, grew up in a very privileged lifestyle.
Actually had owned a couple of clubs in downtown Louisville,
but he also had a drug problem and he'd been
in a jail because of it. So when Joey Banis
(47:28):
and Jeffrey Munt basically tell the same story about the
murder of Jamie Carroll, but they both change who did it.
When you hear Joey Jeffrey is the one I was
in the room watching, gave porn while they were in there,
and Jeffrey killed him. Meanwhile, when Jeffrey tells the story
it's Joey who did the killing. But they both admitted
to putting him in the fifty gallon tub and getting
(47:50):
rid of the body, digging the hole and all that.
So it comes down to a trial. Joey went to
trial first, and to keep the death penal off the table.
And pay attention to this because this is something that's
going to be going on with Coburger. Okay, okay, right
now they're trying ways to keep the death penal, get
the death penalty off the table in his case. Well,
here's what Joey Bainis did to get the death penalty off.
(48:13):
He agreed that he would testify against Jeffrey Mount in
Jeffrey's trial. Now, Joey's trial was coming first, and so
he's saying I didn't do it. He did it, and
I after I'm I will testify. And by the way,
I will not take the death penalty off the table.
(48:34):
And I will what was oh, I will not challenge.
I will not appeal any conviction if it happens. Okay,
you got me. I will not appeal if I'm convicted. Well,
Joey Banis was convicted and he did testify at the
trial of Jeffrey Mount. Several months later, Well, Jeffrey Mount,
remember Joey Bainis convicted fellon with a lot of drug
(48:56):
pro and here's Jeffrey Mont. He's a gay guy who
likes to party. He had told everybody that no big
surprise here, but I'm not a killer. I own this
beautiful home. He's the bad guy, right, and the jury
bought it. So Jeffrey Munt actually was not judge not guilty.
He was acquitted of the murder charge. But Jeffrey Munt
(49:19):
was convicted of bearing getting rid of the corpse, of
being involved with that, so Jeffrey Munt acquitted a murder.
Joey bain Is convicted of murder. Jeffreymont was sentenced to
eight years in prison for what he did with the
body of Jamie Carroll, but because he had spent time
in jail leading up to the actual trial taking place
(49:40):
the day he was convicted and sent or the day
that he was sentenced, he was eligible for parole, so
he was pretty much released within a matter of no time.
Joey Bainis convicted remains in prison for the rest of
his life, even though he did try to appeal the decision.
By the way, and that didn't work. He's still in jail,
so they have.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
It Joe Wow.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah, and you know, gee, thanks to my wife for
putting this on the oh my lord. Yeah. And you
know the other thing is is she uh again she
you know, she was thinking back all those years that,
all those years ago when I had that drug field
uh case that I worked in Atlanta where they got
jumped through the playglass wind and it also, I think
because of the old home, it doesn't this case doesn't
(50:25):
necessarily have the same Southern charm to it, but it
reminded her of Midnight in the Garden of Evil as well,
you know where you've got this fine home. Uh, that's
a real prize. And so that was one of the
things that she that drew drew her eye to this.
So she was quite fascinated by it. But this case
in and of itself is something that is truly a tragedy. Uh.
(50:51):
This young man had left, uh left a life that
you know, one one level, I'm sure that he found
quite boring, that it wasn't everything that he thought that
it could be. But unfortunately, in the end, what he
wound up with was a complete and total horror show.
(51:13):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.
Body dimes, but Joseph's gotten more, you know. Down in
New Orleans. One of the things that New Orleanians have
pride themselves on is holding on to the past. And
holding on to the past is really played out down
there in the sense that there are so many old
(00:21):
homes that have survived all of these years, these decades.
As a matter of fact, things that you can't imagine
would still be standing, you know. And it's not just termites.
It's hurricanes, fires, cholera, outbreaks, yellow fever. But yet the
structures remain. And the thing about structures is that they
(00:44):
have a story to tell. Over the years, people have
asked me on any number of occasions, do you ever
see ghost because of what I did for a living?
And I have to be honest with you, I never have.
I never have. I've never seen any kind of spiritual
manifestation in my presence or anything like that. However, there
(01:07):
is something within me that believes that places are haunted.
I don't know what it is. There are just certain
locations you can go to and you kind of get
a chill. Well, one such place exists in Louisville, Kentucky,
and we're going to talk about that place today because
this particular location, which is an old Victorian house, is
(01:32):
actually on the Haunted Tour of the City of Louisville.
I think you might enjoy it. Let's dig in. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. I saw
Dave laughing when I said dig in, because this case
in particular involves a bit of digging. But let me
(01:54):
back up. I have to say that I am doing
this episode because my wife asked me to Kimmy. You know,
I always talk about Kimmy, and how can I say
no to her? And the reason I did is she
was doing some reading and actually, I have to full
(02:17):
full disclosure, she was actually doing some research for me
on buried bodies, and she said, you gotta do this case.
Case is fascinating. It's got so many twists and turns,
and look a lot of other people have done this.
All right, you can just go online and kind of
check it out. But the reason she wanted me to
do this is because it reminded her of a case
(02:39):
that I worked when I was in Atlanta. And before
I tell you about today's case, let me tell you
about that case. There were three men that had come
to Atlanta, and they were staying in one of the
high Rose hotels in downtown in Atlanta, and there's several
of them down there. I'm not going to name the hotel,
(03:01):
but for three days they had stayed in a room
doing crystal meth and having unbridled sex with one another
for three days and many times, what you will have
is that, particularly when a number of different types of drugs,
(03:22):
but crystal meth in particularly, I think that there is
a drug induced psychosis that takes place many times with
folks that you know, imbibe if you will. And in
this particular case, they were on the twenty second floor.
This individual came running past the bank of elevators there
(03:46):
a lady was getting on with her child. He's completely nude,
he's screaming, and he runs to the end of the
hallway and jumped through a window, a floor to ceiling
plate glass window. Plummets. Are you ready for this? Plummets
(04:08):
all these floors down. It's in the summertime. He hits
when he impacts the object below, which is actually the
top of the pool house adjacent to this big fancy pool,
his head splits open and a large portion of his
brain flies out of his head and lands in the
(04:32):
hot tub, and there's kids, families, you know, that are
swimming in the big pool. Thankfully there was no one
in the hot tub at the time. That case, as
you can imagine, kind of stuck with me all these
many years, and I remember distinctly coming home and telling
my wife about it, and you know, it's like one
(04:53):
of those moments, you can't make this stuff up. And
as a matter of fact, if I tried to take
that story probably to Hollywood and into a producer's office,
they laughed me out because it just seem like it's
completely implausible. But it's amazing to me, Dave the circumstances
that humans put themselves in many times, and our story
(05:14):
today involves involves three individuals that had put themselves into
some interesting positions.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
A brain in the hot tub. Yeah, I'm not eating
one time soup anymore. That's done with that.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
You know. The bad thing about it is as ghastly
as this is, we had to use the skimmer neet
to get the to get that remnant of brain. And
the other thing about it is is that there was
and I felt so sorry for these family members that
were subjected to this. They were the uh there was
(05:54):
blood like leaking down the front of the pool house
and he was laying there and you know, his head
is completely shattered. You could see him from that perspective.
I remember trying to take photos from where I was standing.
You couldn't really appreciate it because it's so many floors up.
And let me tell you something. This is This is
(06:15):
one of those moments, Dave, when I was terrified because
I was on the it was above twenty floors. It
seemed that the number twenty two stands out to me,
and I remember getting vertigo. I was standing there looking
out of that window. And you know when you're if
you've never been into a big city, folks, and you're
(06:37):
on top of one of these buildings, and I've been
on several because I've had to work jumpers. Those buildings
create a canyon, and so win just like it. It
might it might be completely steady on the ground, but
you get up at that elevation and the wind whips
through those those those streets and the avenues and everything,
(07:00):
and it kind of it literally swirls up there. It's
really dangerous. I mean, it's terrifying. I remember thinking I'm
going to get swept out of this thing. I went
so far as to lay on the floor and crawl
toward the opening and the glass and started taking pictures.
And of course nothing I took really turned out. We
had a crime scene tech at that particular time that
(07:20):
was working for Atlanta Police Department, and they happened to
have a telephoto lens and they needed it anyway. They
had to take their own care, and I wound up
getting some of their images and it beat all I'd
ever seen. I'd never seen anything happen like this. It's
like a It's like a cerebral of visceration, you know,
(07:42):
by uh, well, let me tell you how doctors define
this and this is this is kind of funny. Pathologist
will actually list a cause of death and get that.
You're going to love this. I can see it coming.
One of the one of the things they talk about
with motor vehicle accents and fall. The beauty of this
(08:03):
the logic they say death as a result of rapid deceleration, right,
and this is that was the ultimate in a rapid
deceleration death. Okay, and you see it in motor vehicle accents,
but that you know, you're gonna fall. I don't know
that at twenty twenty two stories, if it was that,
(08:24):
if you could actually heat hit terminal velocity, I don't
think that you could. But you're you're cooking when you
and it's not like being in a car. It's just you, man,
it's just you against mother Earth at that point in time,
and that that pool house and he just impacted. I
mean it was dead center. Man, it was dead center.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Mom's everywhere. Yeh, kids going come on mom.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Oh. I felt so sorry. Man. There were little kids
down there too. It was horrible. It was horrible. I
don't know what it was about. And I know other
medical legal death investigators around the country that if there's
any out there, I know that many of them have
jumper stories because they're not they're not things that happen regularly,
but you do get enough of them, particularly if you
(09:07):
work in obviously large rural I mean, excuse me, large
urban areas, you'll get them. And I've had bridge jumpers,
building jumpers, what else. I've had a guy that fell
through an open an open hatch on a supertanker, and
you wouldn't believe what the inside of an empty supertanker
(09:28):
looks like because it had been emptied of oil and
I had to go down the internal ladder. I was
terrified there too, and he hit the eyebeam down there again.
Rapid deceleration injuries. So yeah, just because they're dead doesn't
mean that you're not in danger as a death investigator.
But hey, Dave, this this case today.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I think it's case back to the one you already started.
Let's talk about look kind of transfer this particular case though.
We're not talking about a hotel, but we're talking about
a building that is so old, a house that is
sold that the actual police that show up think it
could be multiple apartments. They don't even know exactly where
to go because it's such a beautiful, beautiful place.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
It's gorgeous merge.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And that's why when a nine one one call comes in,
just give your heads up here. First of all, you
already know we're going to be telling a story about
three men. Yeah, because you kind of let the cat
out of the bag when you told us the gay
story in the hotel. And rapid deceleration, which is not
going to leave my brain now for a long time.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Don't say to leave your brain, please, don't. Let's not
talk about that.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I could have done without them, but at any rate.
Jamie Carroll is a hairstylist and he also is gay,
and he decides to leave his small town upbringing to
go to an area where he can find more acceptance.
So he goes to the big city and things don't
work out real really as.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Fast as they need to.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
He's having trouble making bills, and like many people do,
he's starts dealing drugs a little bit on the side
to try to make ends meet. Usually when you start
doing that, it's because you actually are using drugs too,
and in that party lifestyle, and you use the drug
selling to add to your purchasing in anyway, you ended
(11:16):
up becoming a drug dealer, you know. And so Jamie
Carroll was a hairstylist who ended up down a very
bad path for himself because he seemed like a very
nice man. Jeffrey Mount is an incredibly well educated guy.
He's a top official at Northwestern University. He actually was
(11:36):
doing a technology overhaul for the university. Imagine that. Imagine
what it would be like to be a charge of
doing a technology overhaul for a top ten college. Yes,
Northwestern's up there.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I mean, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's certainly in the top twenty now
one of the most expensive colleges in the exactly as
well in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Jeffrey Munt very well paid. And by the way, is
he's very loud about his alternative lifestyle. Right, he is
not in the closet. There's not a closet in his house.
And everyone he works with knows this about him. He
doesn't want this to be something that is you know,
(12:20):
comes back and gets him. So he's very outward. He's
gay anyway. Well, he also has another friend, and this
guy is Joey Bayness. Now Joey comes from a very
well to do family. His dad's a surgeon. I think,
big money, lots of connections. But for whatever reason, Joey
(12:40):
is the He's the black chep of the family. If
he's an only child, he's still the black cheap of
the family. And he's just that kid that he grew
up with all of the possible opportunities and advantages that
anyone person can have and turned his back on him
and got tatted up and ran down a fellony highway.
So and also gay, also into drugs as a matter
(13:04):
of fact, Joey and Jamie were close as druggies drug pals. Well,
Joey is dating Jeffrey month and they have I'm trying
to find the right way to put this a lover's quarrel. Yeah,
(13:24):
And Jeffrey calls nine to one one. He's scared to
death that Joey is going to kill him. His boyfriend's
going to kill him, right, And so the police arrive.
Now here you have this incredible home that again I say,
the police couldn't even find it right off because they
show up that building, but it looks like it's a
(13:45):
it's an apartment complex. It does not look like one home.
And can I can't imagine that, Joe. I mean you've been.
You mentioned how New Orleans and even certain areas of
Atlanta have these kinds of homes that are so big
that you just look at it and go, that's it's
not the Clampet's going who lives upstairs?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Noose?
Speaker 3 (14:02):
They're big homes.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, And I've been, and you know, I got to
tell you in case anyone's ever wondered about this, And
I hate to say this, but when you show up
on a scene where you're dealing with individuals that have
power and money and they live this kind of ostentatious
(14:27):
kind of lifestyle where you first off, you know the
value of the properties in there, and everything is perfectly
manicured when you show up there and listen. Bad things
happen in those neighborhoods as well. People doesn't happen as
with greater frequency as it does if you're out with
you know, people that are just struggling day to day
(14:47):
and they don't have a lot of money, but things
still and sometimes things get really dark in those environments.
Sometimes I think that many people have too much money
and too much time on their hands, is the way
it plays out. They're not they're not putting forth in
life to go down a good path, to try to
I don't know, to try to benefit themselves and other folks,
(15:09):
and they get distracted and they wind up in drugs
and you know, and in this particular case, if I
had been the investigator that would showed up, would have
shown up, I probably think the same thing. You know,
what unit is this in?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Right?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It ain't in a unit. It's in the house.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
It is the house. It is the house.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And I you know, and I've been and listen, I've been.
I've been in homes before. I've been like in Creole
where for its Creole mansions in New Orleans, everything's leaded class.
They've still got the original medallions on the ceiling where
the chandeliers are hanging down from and you walk through it,
and as you know, a kid that grew up really poor, i'd,
(15:49):
you know, I'd i'd look around, you know, in these places,
and I'd say, you know, why am I here? And
then I have to tell myself, I'm a death investigator.
That's why I'm here. And I've got somebody that's dead,
and you have to fourth and do the job.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, that's I was going to ask you about this
because this one started off with a domestic violence call,
and most of us know that police hate a domestic
violence call. They're horrible because they can go so bad,
so fast. And I don't think there's any difference between
boy girl boy boy girl girl. Domestic violence is domestic violence,
(16:22):
you know, and they're just as risky no matter who
it is. And in this case, Jeffrey Munt, the super
educated rich guy, is on nine one, is on the
phone telling them that his boyfriend Joey bane is his
beating is he's going to kill him. And so when
the police get there, they find Joey. He's tatted up
and he Joey tells them a story. They cuff him
(16:44):
and take him downtown. Now Joey knows he's got a
lot of legal issues, he's had a history with law enforcement.
Jeffrey mont meanwhile, not so much. And so they take
Joey downtown. They believe Jeffrey Munt is the victim him
and on the way there, Joey says, hey, man, I
(17:04):
got a story for you. Basically, you guys are taking
me to jail for this. I got you sure you're yeah,
you think that guy's all that, Well, you know what,
I got a much better story to tell you. It
ain't just about boy boy fight. How about a dead body.
And we're not talking the movie where the kids are
trying to find that the kid. This is yeah, it's
(17:25):
not stand by me. This is a murder and it
happened at that house you just left. As a matter
of fact, there's a dead body in that house. It's
in the basement used to be the wine cellar. I think,
I mean, he lays it all out there for him Joe.
Now you've already pointed out that these are pretty impressive homes.
(17:46):
This type of a home is already a legendary home.
And police, you know, cops as much as I do,
probably better when you're getting a story from a guy
who's got a fell in a rap sheet, Yeah, do
you believe him or do you kind of go, yeah,
he's just trying to get out of his latest rap.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I'm going to believe probably about two thirds of what
they say, because yeah, and that's you always feel like
you're being leveraged for something else, right, because many times
guys that have been in the system, they know how
to work the system. And it all depends, it all
depends on uh, you know, if you think about the
spinning wheel of fate, it all depends on which officer
(18:27):
that arrow comes to rest on. And sometimes it comes
to rest on somebody that begins to believe the story,
and it's going to follow up, and when they do
follow up, they're not going to believe what they see. Drugs.
(18:55):
I think it goes without saying ruin everything, and it's
not just necessarily illicit drugs that are out there. Be
honest with you, there are certain things that are. I
don't want to mention any names that are illegal that
might not should be. But you know, you can have
(19:17):
even people that are addicted to prescription drugs that are
out there and it destroys lives. And in this case,
these individuals, Dave had developed such a hunger. And I
don't I don't necessarily think that our victim in this
case was the first supplier that they've ever had. I
(19:39):
think that he was probably a means to an end
and that there had been dabbling going on all the while.
But Dave, you've got to kind of lay us out
for me, because you know, if you're if you're a
police officer, you know, and you're hurt, you hear that
you have a body in the basement of the house
(20:00):
he just came from. How'd the body get there? Because
this guy's got to leave the story out. You got
me on the hook now, I want to hear it,
you know. So I'm thinking as a cop.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
I was looking at it from the stand.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
When I was going back over this, I was trying
to figure out at what point do police actually go.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
He's giving too many details. We need to take this seriously.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, I think it happened pretty quick, because you've got
to realize that you have a situation of domestic violence.
You've got one guy in cuffs headed downtown and he's
offering up something that is a murder, and he's saying
that my partner is the one that did it, and
he's laying it out there and explaining everything that took place.
And this was where the three way comes into play.
(20:42):
You know, we mentioned the victim right off the bat
is a guy named Jamie Carroll. He is a hairstylist
who also dabbles in drug selling. Well, Jamie, Jeffrey Munt,
and Joey bain Is get together for a party at
Jeffrey's house and they are partying hard and they run
(21:07):
out of drugs and Jamie says, no worries, guys, I'll
go get some more drugs. And so while Jamie leaves
the party to go get the drugs, the meth they're
snorting myth. And most of us know that meth amphetamine
is one of these drugs that keeps you up for
(21:27):
days day, keep it for a long time, and depending
on the type and it is, it can do a
lot of things. But they were using myth. Jamie goes
to get the meth while he's gone, Joey and Jeffrey,
now depending on who you listened to, came up with
a plan to let's kill j Let's kill Jamie when
it gets back. We'll take his drugs and his money.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh so this is pillow talk then, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Apparently yeah apparently so yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So they're in the post codal bliss now at this
point in tom and they've run out of drugs because
you cannot continue on in this fueled passion. And so,
you know, I think about this, this guy, this kid
has come to town right just so that he can
(22:12):
kind of fit in. He's got a job cutting hair,
he can't make ends meet, and was you know, you
have to look back and think, was this even on
this kid's radar? You know, like that this could happen
to him. And it just goes from bad to worse
at this point in time, Dave, please get it.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
It was. It was just as bad.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
The biggest problem they had da being the police is
that they're being told a story by a convicted felon,
by Joey Bainis, and he tells them that when Jamie
comes back, that he said, Joey said, Joey tells police, well,
I was tired and I needed to take a break,
(22:56):
so I went into Now again, you're having a gay
sex party weekend. And Joey says, I'm tired, and he
goes into a different room where he watches pornography while
the other two guys are still going at it, and
then he hears something bad happening there. He claims that
Jeffrey Munt shot Jamie Carroll in the face, strangled him,
(23:20):
or beat him. I mean, any number of things going on.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And when.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Joey is telling the police this, imagine what they're thinking,
Joe because you've got somebody who is saying, there is
a body stabbed and shot in this beautiful home and
we just left there and didn't see any bloody scins. Well,
(23:49):
this happened several months ago. It didn't just happen.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think it was like seven months.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
It was seven months earlier. Yes, And that's the whole point.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
He's going, this happened months ago, and they're like, well,
where's the body. Then, well, we went downstairs and I
helped him. Now I didn't help him kill him. Jeffrey
Munn did the killing, but I helped him. We went
into the store and got a fifty gallon tub, rubber
made tub yep, and we got back. We were going
(24:18):
to put him in the tub, dig a hole and
bury him, and we dug the hole. They dug the
whole five feet deep. Joe. Now, I don't know about you,
but I have dug a few holes in my life,
and I will tell you when you're dealing when you're
digging a hole by hand, when you start looking at
two feet deep by hand, is tough. When they were
(24:39):
at the bottom of this beautiful old home, they were
at bedrock man.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, I can't let me interject here because I've had
like several cases, one in particular that stands out mind
a by a guy that he beat his grandmother to
death who was living with his grandmother, and she lived
in an equally old ho home probably about this age.
It was more of a craftsman style home. It wasn't
(25:05):
like a Victorian mansion, but it had an external cellar
door where it was a It was a packed floor,
but it wasn't It wasn't like a concrete base or anything.
But you could walk in. You had headroom, is what
I'm saying. And the grandson in the case that I'm
talking about right now ran into the same problem that
(25:27):
this pair ran into, and that is they're in because
the grandson in my case, this was in Atlanta, did
a horrible job, all right, of trying to conceal it.
It was. It was ghastly and all those sorts of things.
But when you're talking about digging that at that depth,
(25:48):
they had to use pick axes. And you know, most
of time we think about, well, I'm going to go
in the backyard and do some gardening. Perhaps, well I'm
going to take a shovel with me, and well, when
you go into the backyard, most of the time you're
digging through a layer of sedtlement top soil, that sort
of thing. It can you might think that it's a struggle,
but it loosens up. You go down to a basement
(26:11):
of a home that's over one hundred years old, okay,
and you try to stick a shovel in a packed
clay floor. Because the one thing that we know about
old homes is that we've always heard the tie where
they settle, and you'll hear them creaking and cracking and
all that sort of things. I guess it's one of
(26:32):
the charms of an old house. I've had a couple
of old houses. But it's also terrifying too. But as
it's settling quote unquote settling, it's going it's dropping. You know,
the entire time and the entire environment around it is
either rising or it is shifting with the settling of
the home, depending upon how the house was originally constructed.
(26:56):
And that settled home in the basement, is that dirt
down there is getting tighter and tighter and tighter. Just
imagine over one hundred years of this happening. It's almost
like somebody turning a screw to where it's not sufficient
just to turn the screw to get something locked in
with it. You're going to go beneath the surface of
(27:17):
that you're screwing the screw into and it's going deeper
and deeper, and all of a sudden you realize, my god,
this is going to take forever. Are we ever going
to get through down to the bottom depths here? Well,
they finally did.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Lots of men later. Yeah, there's the Jamie's math. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah. And you know the thing about it is they
took this poor poor man and he came back and
I'll use the term in good faith. He came back
in good faith. He's the supplier. Yeah, all right, the
party going and he's got the money. And keep in mind,
money is really what he wanted, you know, you talked
about that from the top, Dave. Money is what he wanted,
(27:59):
just to survive. And here it is that thing that
he had desired so much to get away from small
town USA, to come to the big city. He may
have had his pockets full when he arrived back. He
had to dope with him and for that he was butchered. Well, brother, debut. Now,
(28:33):
let me get this straight. He didn't go down to
the funeral home, and by they didn't go down to
the funeral home and buy the I don't know, the
super duper twenty thousand dollars lead lined titanium casket.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
They didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
They ran down the street to whoever it was, and yeah,
and they picked up the rubber maid. Right. I think
there's nobody. I bet there's nobody within the sound of
a voice right now that can't identify with one of
these containers. My lord, My life is a series of
these ruber mad containers putting Christmas decorations in it, and
baby pictures and school books and everything else and putting
(29:12):
them out in the shit. Right, everybody can identify with this.
The problem is, unlike a coffin or casket, bodies generally
fit in those. In this particular case, that ain't what happened, Dave.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
They're dealing with a couple of things, Joe. Because they're high.
They've been up for a long time, so they're not
in their right mind anyway when they decide to go
and get this fifty gallon tub. But when they get back,
now I'm a little I'm not sure exactly when they
dug the hole. I don't know that because they say
(29:50):
they went to the store and when By the time
they got back with the fifty gallon rubber made as
well as a rubber foam to seal it up with
that rigor mortis had set in. Yeah, and mortis, and
they did not fit the body in the tub that way.
And in their best way of thinking, this super intelligent,
(30:11):
highly educated, overpaid Northwestern University cat and his convicted fellon boyfriend,
the best plan they could come up with to get
this body into the rubber made tub was to use
a sledgehammer and break it up.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
The country mouse that came to the city, right, Yeah,
the breaking up Jamie. Yeah, here's the thing about it.
And let's talk about rigor riger however you want to
pronounce it, anything's okay with me. The thing about rigor
mortis is that once it sets in, you can manually
(30:49):
break it. You don't have to use a sledgehammer to
do it. But if you're if you're not familiar with
the dead, a lot of people walk around out there
thinking that once rigidity sets in and the body it
is for there forever and ever. Amen, Listen, After about
thirty six hours, and a lot of it depends on
upon the environment, bodies start to become flaccid again. The
(31:14):
stiffness that lactic acid begins to dissipate, and suddenly the
body becomes flaccid once more. You can generally kind of
fold the body up as best you can, but Dave,
they and even if you're in full rigidity, And I've
had this happen because I've had to break Breake Rider
on the table before. And when I say break, don't
(31:38):
misconstrue that I'm not breaking something like, you know, taking
a sledgehammer and cracking the dead over their knees. That's
not what we do. It will set in in the arms,
it sets in the legs, the hips, the head, the neck.
So all it requires is manipulation. And you can actually
(32:01):
bend at the knee. Now, if you're going to try
to put him into this this plastic container, that can
be accomplished without having to do something. I mean, look,
they've already gone down the road of being ghastly here.
I mean, let's just let's face it, all right, I guess,
look what more can we do. Let's get the sledgehammer,
you know, and and assault the dead the dead here,
(32:24):
and that's what they chose to do. But you could
easily manipulate a body just by manual manipulation. You can
work it out of the joints. And because just think
about all of the bodies, think about this, I'll tell
you why we have to do in the more. If
you've got somebody that dies, say seated in a chair, okay,
and their their arms are resting resting on the arm rest.
(32:49):
All right, Let's say they've committed suicide and they die
in the chair, their arms on the on the on
the arm rest. Well, when we take them out of
that chair, guess what, when I was in the army.
They used to put us in what's called the dying
cockroach position. And what that meant as for punishment, we'd
lay on our back, we'd have to hold our arms
up and our legs up. It looked like a dying cockroach.
(33:10):
You had to stay there in that position. It looks
like the dying cockroach position. If anybody's been in the military,
you're familiar with that. So we would in the morgue.
We would actually have to break riger in the shoulders
and in the elbows, because if you didn't, when you
go to make the initial incision and in visperation of
the body, you're fighting with the dead person's arm because
(33:33):
they're in the way, so you want the arms at
their side. And yeah, it takes a little bit of work,
but to go to this degree which they did, adds
another level of just a real disgusting situation, goes to
horrific at this point.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
To jump to the end here, they buried him in
five feet deep. They were able to get in with
the sledgehammer. They paun Jamie's body into this little fifty
yelling rubber maid tub and they said the police said
it was five feet down. These guys doug by hand
five feet deep in this basement, and then they covered
(34:12):
the body with lime I'm guessing inside the rubber maid thing. Yeah,
and buried it and it was there for seven months.
Seven months go by, and that's when the domestic phone
call comes into nine one one, where Joey Bainis actually
tells police there's a body in the basement and it
was right where he described it pretty much, and so
(34:33):
they were able to dig it up.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But investigators actually referred to this Dave as let's see,
I saw one headline relative to this, how to screw
up a perfect murder. Yep, because if you just kept
your mouth shut, yep, no one probably would have been
the wiser at all. Who else is going to go
into maybe the next homeowner, you know, whenever you pass on,
(34:57):
you'd still have to do something in the body if
you sell it though, I'm sorry, go ahead, No.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Dude, he was just trying to get out of a
DV charge. Either that or because these guys were they
were a couple. That's the one thing I want to
be because I I was looking at this as a
little bit differently, kind of as a three way hookup,
just guys party in and got together. Even though Joey
Bainis and Jeffrey Munt hadn't been years long together. They'd
(35:20):
met on a dating site and they were a couple.
They invited their drug dealer friend to join the party.
He was friends with Joey, so it was it really
was worse than what I thought to start with, if
you can be worse. But you know what, Joe, they
kill this guy for his drugs and his money and
(35:42):
bury his body in the basement. But then a month
later they actually get arrested.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Again.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You got a dead body in your basement and you
go to Chicago, stay in a really expensive hotel and
they're trying to pass fake money.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, this is oh my gosh, I completely forgot about
this element. I think it was month that was actually
involved in counterfeiting. Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
I could I could talk all.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Day about you know, uh, counterfeiting and that sort of thing.
From a forensics perspective and as a death investigators, you know,
I've only had one case that involved somebody that was
involved in counterfeiting and it turned out to be like
one of the most renowned in the country. This guy
(36:33):
did and he died in Atlanta in a walk up
kind of. It's not really a flophouse he was renting.
It was like a two room and the two room
didn't have a bath. You had a shared bath down
the hallway. But David I went he died in the bed.
It was a natural death. But David I went into
(36:53):
his room and he had money hanging from clothesline or
string in there, like it was drying. I'd never seen anything,
you know, you see stuff like that in the movies,
and I'd never never thought about and it takes a
certain level of skill. But they were they when they
were arrested, Dave and again, they were trying to pass
(37:15):
funny money to a merchant and they picked up on
it immediately, you know, so I g you know, the
quality was probably not that good. And I go back
to mont with this. You know, you mentioned you would
think that he would be giving his academic background and
(37:35):
his status at Northwestern, he would be a bit more
sophisticated than all of this, like he would rise above it.
But you know he's he's really loud, boisterous and oh,
by the way, yeah, he loves meth and he loves
counterfeit money. You know. You know, look, we can go
on and on about this this kid that owned the
(37:57):
house and his run ins with the law, and you know,
he's you know, he's been on a dark path. But
the darkest path of all to me is Mont you know,
because it's it's just people that seem, in my experience
at least, to seem to have it all of course,
and then when you kind of peel back those layers, Uh,
(38:19):
it's it's so incredibly dark. You wonder what else they've
been involved in in their life.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Buddy.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Well, you know the reason I added that is that
that was like four weeks after they killed Jamie Carroll
and buried him in the basement. They're together, party in
and they try to pass the fundy money and you
know who tipped him off, the doorman, the guy at
the hotel. You know this, right, But when they do,
when the cops show up, they have him. He's got months,
(38:47):
got a gun and your gun. Now, at the time
they didn't know anything about the gun. But now that
they found a dead body in the basement, you've got
to tell me the condition Because the gun that Jeffrey
got caught with him and Joey, and that's the gun
that was used to shoot Jamie Carroll. But what kind
(39:07):
of condition after seven months is Jamie Carroll's body going
to be in after being sealed up in a rubber
made fifty gallon tub, buried five feet deep in the
basement of a home in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Imagine imagine Louisville, Chicago. Yeah, Louisville. Imagine the nastiest human
soup that you can imagine after that period of time.
So in the bottom of this tub, which by the way,
it's plastic, so it is going to be sweating internally, Okay,
(39:41):
inside of this thing, it's it's got it's kind of
because as the body is breaking down, and again we've
talked about autolytic changes, which is auto meaning self, So
it's like self digestion of the body a cellular level
that's going to leach out, and so as it leaches
(40:01):
out through the cells, the body produces again the file
substance known a man, which is decomp fluid. Got a
great story about that sometimes we have another time to
talk about that. It actually involves a good friend of
mine and his brand new pair of lace up a
white buck buck low first that he had. But that's
(40:23):
the story for another day. Stay tuned and that you're
you're not going to have necessarily the same insect activity. Now,
trust me, five feet of earth is still going to
ring the dinner bell for flies. They're going to show up.
I'd like to know, for instance, let's just start at
(40:44):
the top. I'd like to know if they had hung
like pest trips in the basement, because flies are going
to show up even with that much distance between them.
I've found that flies, if there is a way they're
going to they're going to find a way. I mean,
just think about common house slaves. You think that your
house is all sealed up, maybe it's when you bring
the grocers in from out of the car. They're going
(41:06):
to slip through your door. They're going to wind up
in the house with you. And there's even a type
of fly that you find in caskets that come up
as a result of us dysentering a body, and they're
called coffin flies, and they have the ability to burrow
down through the earth and get inside of a casket.
(41:27):
So you find those in a lot of caskets that
are out there and in dwelling bodies. So it's just
it's a natural thing that occurs. But back to the
soup inside of this plastic container. You're going to have
a You're going to have probably about an inch of
fluid just on the bottom. I'd say after seven months
(41:49):
like this, the skin is going to be greatly softened.
It'll have kind of it won't have a pinked up
appearance to it. It will have begun to turn black
and green. You would have by seven months, you're going
to probably have protrusion, particularly at the joint areas. If
(42:09):
he's bent, you're going to have elements of the skeleton
that are poking through at that point in time. And
since this is not a dry this is what's referred
to as a as a wet t comp Since it's
not dry like laying dow on the ground where you
have exposure to sunlight, the skin is going to be
(42:33):
or the tissue rather, it's going to be very very spongy,
like I've actually removed bodies at this far down the
line and further and when you and even with a
gloved hand, Dave, and this is one of the more
disgusting things I've ever had to do as a death investigating,
and it happened to me all the time. I think
those things that you hate so much, they either stand
in your mind that happen to you with more frequency,
(42:54):
the more you dread them.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Where you would grab.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
A body and it was in such a state of decay,
the body doesn't pull apart, but your hands, your fingertips
actually sink through the tissue as you're removing the body,
and you can feel your fingertips going into the body
to a certain depth. That's what they would have experienced.
But my thought is more than likely hopefully they did
this when they were able to understand down in that basement,
(43:23):
which would have been a horrible area to have had
to have worked in if you were the corner investigator
or the emmy investigator. Certainly the crime scene people that
were down there, and of course the homeside detective once
they saw this body in this contained plastic thing that
they had purchased. I'm hoping they didn't take the body
(43:43):
out of the container at the scene, and this would
have been a yeoman's task to get this thing up
out of the ground and then move it probably up
a staircase. Imagine this and a think slashing around inside
of there, just slashing back and forth, and you can
(44:04):
hear it and the more you move out into the
open air. Guess who really does show up now, it's
going to be the flies. And I don't care if
it's in the dead of winter, they're going to show
up and they're going to be lighting on you to
get to that body. If you're still wearing the same gloves,
you look down at your gloves and you've got flies
all over your hands, it's because they smell it. It's
like ringing the dinner bell for them. But on the
(44:27):
other hand, if they kept the body inside of that
container and they take it back to the morgue, I'm
a big I'm a big fan of X rays. If
you can X ray that body in place, and this
goes to the fact that got caught with this weapon,
if the projectile is still in the body. If you
(44:48):
do X rays of the entire tub with the body
still in place, and that lead core projectile is still
in the body, as decaying as the body might appear,
you can still see that radio opaque image of the
bullet within the body. And one of the interesting things
(45:13):
that you see I've never talked about this. I'm going
to mention here one of the interesting things that you
see on post warm X rays with decomposing bodies. Did
you know that? Internally you begin to see these systems
that are breaking down, and within the body itself you
(45:34):
can see the little gas pockets inside the body and
you have to do a double take at it because
they're kind of outlined. You can kind of see an
outline of them, and they like a normal X ray,
if you have a fresh dead it's going to look
pretty much like like someone's xtually that was taken in life.
But if you get a decomp and you X ray them,
(45:55):
the interior of the body is going to look completely
different than if you have the fresh deet that you're
working with, or like a living patient. But the key
is to try to locate that bullet or that projectile,
and hopefully they did and they have this weapon, and
lo and behold, this idiot is still carrying the weapon.
So let me get this straight. You go to all
(46:17):
this trouble to dig through packed clay with a pick
axe and a shovel. You buy a container, you stuff
him in it, you dig it five feet deep by
the way, you stick him into the bottom of it,
and then you cover the thing up and now you're
(46:38):
going to run buck wild up in Chicago passing funny money.
Oh and by the way, carrying the same weapon that
you murdered a guy with. Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know really what they're hiring practices are at Northwestern.
I got questions, I got questions. I'd like to know.
I'd like to know, you know, what is it that
(46:58):
was so special about this guy? But Dave, I just
I think that everyone would like to know what actually
became of these two desperadoes.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Well, as I mentioned earlier, you know, Joey Banis had
a track record of convictions. He is the one whose
dad was a surgeon, grew up in a very privileged lifestyle.
Actually had owned a couple of clubs in downtown Louisville,
but he also had a drug problem and he'd been
in a jail because of it. So when Joey Banis
(47:28):
and Jeffrey Munt basically tell the same story about the
murder of Jamie Carroll, but they both change who did it.
When you hear Joey Jeffrey is the one I was
in the room watching, gave porn while they were in there,
and Jeffrey killed him. Meanwhile, when Jeffrey tells the story
it's Joey who did the killing. But they both admitted
to putting him in the fifty gallon tub and getting
(47:50):
rid of the body, digging the hole and all that.
So it comes down to a trial. Joey went to
trial first, and to keep the death penal off the table.
And pay attention to this because this is something that's
going to be going on with Coburger. Okay, okay, right
now they're trying ways to keep the death penal, get
the death penalty off the table in his case. Well,
here's what Joey Bainis did to get the death penalty off.
(48:13):
He agreed that he would testify against Jeffrey Mount in
Jeffrey's trial. Now, Joey's trial was coming first, and so
he's saying I didn't do it. He did it, and
I after I'm I will testify. And by the way,
I will not take the death penalty off the table.
(48:34):
And I will what was oh, I will not challenge.
I will not appeal any conviction if it happens. Okay,
you got me. I will not appeal if I'm convicted. Well,
Joey Banis was convicted and he did testify at the
trial of Jeffrey Mount. Several months later, Well, Jeffrey Mount,
remember Joey Bainis convicted fellon with a lot of drug
(48:56):
pro and here's Jeffrey Mont. He's a gay guy who
likes to party. He had told everybody that no big
surprise here, but I'm not a killer. I own this
beautiful home. He's the bad guy, right, and the jury
bought it. So Jeffrey Munt actually was not judge not guilty.
He was acquitted of the murder charge. But Jeffrey Munt
(49:19):
was convicted of bearing getting rid of the corpse, of
being involved with that, so Jeffrey Munt acquitted a murder.
Joey bain Is convicted of murder. Jeffreymont was sentenced to
eight years in prison for what he did with the
body of Jamie Carroll, but because he had spent time
in jail leading up to the actual trial taking place
(49:40):
the day he was convicted and sent or the day
that he was sentenced, he was eligible for parole, so
he was pretty much released within a matter of no time.
Joey Bainis convicted remains in prison for the rest of
his life, even though he did try to appeal the decision.
By the way, and that didn't work. He's still in jail,
so they have.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
It Joe Wow.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah, and you know, gee, thanks to my wife for
putting this on the oh my lord. Yeah. And you
know the other thing is is she uh again she
you know, she was thinking back all those years that,
all those years ago when I had that drug field
uh case that I worked in Atlanta where they got
jumped through the playglass wind and it also, I think
because of the old home, it doesn't this case doesn't
(50:25):
necessarily have the same Southern charm to it, but it
reminded her of Midnight in the Garden of Evil as well,
you know where you've got this fine home. Uh, that's
a real prize. And so that was one of the
things that she that drew drew her eye to this.
So she was quite fascinated by it. But this case
in and of itself is something that is truly a tragedy. Uh.
(50:51):
This young man had left, uh left a life that
you know, one one level, I'm sure that he found
quite boring, that it wasn't everything that he thought that
it could be. But unfortunately, in the end, what he
wound up with was a complete and total horror show.
(51:13):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.