December 2, 2025 • 38 mins
Rachel Castillo' sister arrives home on the evening of November 10, 2022 to the apartment she shares with her sister and her sisters two children. Rachel's car is in the parking lot where she normally parks, her keys and phone are inside the apartment, but Rachel is nowhere to be found. One look around the apartment and it looks like something out of a horror movie, blood is everywhere. Police say it is a violent abduction and begin looking for Rachel. 4 days later, the body of Rachel Castillo is found in a shallow grave. Charging her soon to be ex-husband with the murder, Police are shocked to hear what the monster did to the mother of his children. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the case from the bloody crime scene in the apartment to the shallow grave where Rachel was buried TWICE.
Transcribe Highlights
00:02.84 Introduction - Necrophilia
04:27.57 Rachel Castillo, 5'2" tall, 105 pounds
08:52.89 Cleaning up blood
13:22.14 Blood separates when out of the body
17:35.80 Blood loss incompatible with life
22:16.44 Police locate body
26:49.08 Did Ali pre-dig the hole in Antelope Valley
30:49.74 Raping the corpse
35:08.14 Dahmer kept victims around for company
38:47.75 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body balance. But Joseph's gotten more. Just about every industry
has some kind of mythology that comes along with it. Now,
you know, when we think about mythology, many times we
think about ancient stories, right, And you know, I would
imagine that there are things even in the information technology
(00:26):
world that are mythologized. Now in death investigation though, and
specifically working in morgues and that sort of thing. They
are these stories that float around and people always come
to you to want to know if if this is
actually true, you know, like do the dead actually sit up?
Do they talk to you? Do they you know, they
(00:47):
experience pain? Of actually have people ask me that? And
there are those stories that are out there that you
kind of think about and you know that there is
a kernel of truth in them. And one such story
was relayed to me by a friend that worked in
(01:10):
a very specific medical examiner's office. I'm not going to
say the name of it. And there was a particularly
brutal homicide that occurred in this jurisdiction and an assisted
district attorney, the pathologist that was going to do the autopsy,
and a detective showed up early one morning to attend
(01:34):
the autopsy of this just brutalized victim. And upon their arrival,
they walk in to the ancient autopsy suite that has
been there for probably close to one hundred years, and
(01:54):
there they heard noise, the rattling of metal on metal,
and when they walked in, they beheld a fellow who
had been assigned to this medical examiner's office from the
local jail, who was a trustee, and that subject was
(02:16):
in a tray with a deceased elderly woman, let's say,
violating her born out before their very eyes. I don't
necessarily think that story is anecdotal. And you think, Morgan,
can we go any lower? We can't. You've been on
(02:42):
this journey with me now for many years. We can't
go lower. And today we're going to plumb those depths
once again because there is a story in the news
right now that will either turn your stomach or set
your hair on end. I'm talking about a fellow who
(03:05):
killed his wife, buried his wife, then dug up her
remains and did be unthinkable. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and
this is Buddy Banks Dave. I love the term plumbing
(03:28):
the depths. I don't know. Maybe I should have been
in the Navy instead of the army, you know, because
you think I've always imagined myself on some ancient ship,
you know, when they before they had sonar, and they're
sailing out in the blue water, and they have no
idea about the depths that they're sailing over. And I
(03:49):
can just imagine whatever kind of rudimentary, rudimentary device they
had that where they could actually tell how deep something was,
they knew they weren't touching the bottom. I can't say
that in the world of depravity that we are touching
the bottom here, but I think we're on the fast
track to it. What do you say?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
My friend, Rachel Castilla was five feet two inches tall,
joe weigh one hundred and five pounds. She was a
young woman who had educated herself worked really hard. Mama too,
worked really hard, putting herself through school to be educated
(04:30):
because she wanted to help other women and other people
in relationship issues.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
She wanted to be there for other people.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
She knew she needed to be there for other people
because of the relationship that she had been in with
her husband, zar Bob Ali. What Ali confessed to Joseph
Scott Morgan is something that you once said you know,
Ted Bundy used to go back and raise his victims
(05:01):
after they were already decomposing. And I thought, you were
trying to make me sick. And I looked it up
and studied and went, you've got to be kidding.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
He wasn't joking.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
This is almost as bad because, if not worse, because
this is a woman that you were married to. Now
she has put him on the road. She they've been
separated nine months, and in that nine month period of time,
she wanted him to still have a really good relationship
with the kids and allowed him to stay there in
(05:33):
the department together. She brought her sister in because he
got to be too much, and they moved him out.
But she went that far. She'd been over backwards in
this relationship to make it work for him. And the
way he returned that as she was getting her freedom,
he he plotted and planned, Joe, he plotted and planned
(05:57):
so that he could get the children. It was his
day to have them. And as I said, they had
been separated in nine months. He lived there with her
for the first six months, but then he just was
getting to be too much of a rat hole and
she kicked them in to the curb, and so he's
been in his own place for about three months, and
so he gets the kids for his visitation. He takes
(06:18):
them hour and a half two hours wait to his parents'
house and then drives back and sits outside the apartment
in the bushes, waiting for her to get home. And
when he sees Rachel get home from work, he sneaks
in behind her. See, he wasn't waiting inside the apartment.
He waited until she went in, so she you know,
(06:39):
because what at the time that we're the most app
to look around at things, be really aware of our surroundings.
Right when we first walk into an empty home, you're
gonna smell things. You know, you would smell somebody's odors
if they were there in a darkened home. He stayed
outside waiting for her to get in. She goes into
the bedroom, she gets the bathroom, whatever, and he waits
(07:01):
and when she opens the door from her bedroom, this man,
who was her husband, they have two children together, killed
her with a knife. And that was only the beginning
of the horror. Now, Joe, if you stab somebody in
(07:23):
the chest, you've seen the crime scenes after the fact.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I have.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Reported on many of these where people try to clean
them up, and it's really an impossible task unless you
have many people in the right equipment to clean up
that kind of blood that comes out of a human
body when they're bleeding out, which is what happened here.
He did try to clean it up, didn't work.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I've often wondered about this, and I think I've
even stated it on body bags several times because we've
covered a lot of these cass I've often thought that
you would. Now I'm glad you brought brought up the
idea of equipment, and of course equipment goes to planning, right,
so you know, would it be possible to go into
(08:14):
a location and say, for instance, you had are at
your ready, you had safe for instance, something like a
steam cleaner, you know, where you could go in and
you could swab down the area perhaps another nautical term there,
like swabbing the deck. Swab it down, swab it down
with I don't know, some type of detergent, go back
(08:38):
over it, swab it down with bleach. Let that set,
and then you go back in and you essentially apply
steam to it. It would be it would be a
monumental undertaking. And here's you know the physical process of
(08:59):
doing that. First off, one of the things that's always
going to get you is that blood itself and its
deposition many times is so tiny that you're not going
to get everything. You're you're you're just not. I mean,
it's when you think about the spray and you know,
(09:24):
you talked about how she was stabbed. Let's just say,
for instance, she stabbed in the chest, which all indications
are I think at this point in time it has occurred.
We saw this with Travis Alexander's murder at the hands
of Jody Arius. There's a great photo if you if
(09:48):
you guys ever get a chance to take a look
at it from his bathroom where he walks over to
the sink and he has expirated blood. People like to
say aspirated, but aspirated is like you're taking it in, okay,
and the expiration is where you you know, kind of called.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, I've used that term wrong, now.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
No, no, no, it's okay. I've used I've used the
term wrong. And actually here's something. Here's something. A good
friend of mine over in Great Britain, and she is
regarded as one of the world's leading experts in blood deposition,
interpretation and she actually I was doing an interview with
(10:32):
her where I was interviewing her at Crime Con UK
and embarrassment of embarrassment, she corrected me on stage, and
so I've been very careful about that, you know, talking
about that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But you know, just it is looking nicer when a
British person corrects you in public. Does it feel like
at least they're being polite while they do it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, yeah, to a certain degree.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, even when we're really smart.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, they do have a polite way. It's they
are much a can of Southerners that say bless your heart.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
By the way, if one of us meets you somewhere
and you do something stupid, we will say pleasure heart,
bless your heart, a word you never want to hear
after your name, Bless your heart.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Dave my grandmother, you say, bless your poor little pointed head.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
There you go, and uh o, hey, let me ask
you something, queenly you mentioned about like blood being so
difficult to get. Is it because blood isn't just kool aid,
It's not just a red liquid. It's got iron in it,
it's got other things in it that are difficult to
clean up.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Is that the case.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, blood is not a stand alone liquid. You know,
when you say blood, you know you have to think
about all the components that are contained in blood. You've
got RBC's, red blood cells, you got white blood cells,
you got serum, there's plasma, so you've you've got all
of these components. And interestingly enough, if you have like
(11:59):
a big bully bood letting at a scene, did you
know that you can Actually this is kind of a
cool thing from a scientific standpoint, and I've often wondered
if there was any way that we could utilize this
to determine post mortem interval, But that's beside the point.
(12:20):
If you have a so called pool of blood, Dave,
did you know that on like a flat surface, it
has to be a smooth surface. Not going to happen
on carpet or you won't be able to appreciate it
on carpet, But it like on a smooth linoleum surface,
like in a kitchen or a bathroom or a tiled surface.
Did you know that you can actually see the serum
(12:42):
in the blood separating from the RBC's where you've got
this kind of yellowish clear liquid that's over here, and
it is it's still viscous, which means thick you know,
but you see the red blood cells migrating to one side,
and of course this is a marker in time. Well,
(13:03):
why does it not do that in the body. Well,
it's kind of like a gas and oil mix, you know,
like on a what is.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
It a two stroke engine?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, so it's always it's always churning, you know why
in life are you know, it's always churning and death though,
and particularly if it spills out of the body, you'll
see it separate out and separates this migration that takes place.
So yeah, it's it is a complex liquid and it
(13:33):
is viscous and viscosity. We hear that term applied when
you're buying motor oil or you know, the motorole commercials.
They'll say it has a certain viscosity to it, you know,
some talking head will say that in the background over
watching you know, court of oil being poured into an engine,
and that goes to thickness. Right, So when you expiate blood,
(13:58):
which happens lots of times chest injuries, how does that happen? Well,
if a knife is inserted into the chest and it
passes through the chest wall and it gets into the
lung You've got tons of vessels in the lungs. Well,
they also communicate with the bronchial tree. Okay, So the
(14:21):
blood will leach out into these spaces and when we exhale, okay,
you know, carbon dioxide putting it out. You've got blood
that is being infused into the airway and it is
sprayed out at that point in time. That's called expiration.
So it's aspirated, you know, and then it's expiated, and
(14:44):
then it's particulated, and it particulated when it goes out.
If you again back to Travis Alexander, when you look
at that crime scene photo at his sink, you'd have
these particulated bits of blood everywhere. Didn't She didn't even
make a a half ass attempt at cleaning up there.
(15:05):
She just left. You've got a guy here, this guy
from Seemi Valley, California, that has made an attempt to
clean up. But David, there's no way, it's almost empirical
impossibility to clean up every bit of a remnant that's
left behind.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I think I'm sorry it worse based on what her
sister said, because it was her sister that came home
and found her. Her sister was gone, you know, and
they called the police because it's missing persons, you know,
thing at first, but you know, it just hit me
when you were talking about what it would take to
be prepared, you know, his steam cleaner and having all
this preparation, you know. And I'm not trying to find
(15:46):
a reason to credit the mob with anything but ins
a movie, even with Goodfellas, when Joe Peshy is getting
into the face he walks in and he's standing on
plastic because they prepare the room by laying down plasket
so that there's your blood. Yeah, and they just roll
it up, put them in carpet, take them out. But
in this case, the blood was so bad when her
when it's when her sister arrived home and she doesn't
(16:08):
see you know, there's nobody there. Calls police and they come.
They said it was the bloodiest crime scene they'd ever seen.
And even though it was a missing person's they you know, kidnapping.
It was a violent kidnapping, but it was police, I think.
And you would know this because you're around them all
the time. They do have a wink and a nod
with one another on whether or not they believe somebody
(16:29):
is still able to survive and live. Yeah, after what
they're looking at. And I mean I think in just
what they saw, they knew they were not looking for
a live person. They were going to be looking for
a body.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, and that's you know, and that's again, this goes
to terminology. You talked about the wink of the nod
with the police will put it in clinical terms in
the forensics world, where you'll hear a you'll hear a
forensic pathologist, and this goes to case and there are
cases out there, and I urge everybody to to remember
this because you'll hear it again in the future. There
(17:03):
are cases out there where a forensic pathologies. Even though
you cannot quantify, Dave, I want everybody to hear my words.
You cannot. Even you can't quantify, you can kind of qualify.
You can look at a blood stain and say, based
(17:25):
upon what I'm seeing here, the amount of blood that
is here in this space is what's referred to as
being incompatible with life. That means that there's so much
spillage there that you know, and for a woman her size,
and the volume of blood in the human body, it
(17:47):
varies from person to person. Now, we do know that
she is rather diminutive. She's not a big woman, and
so you think top in with her. I would imagine
maybe two gallons in her body. Okay, if you want to,
just think about two milk jucks. Okay, standard gallon milk
jucks might be on the low end here. You know,
(18:11):
we might be talking I don't know, one point seventy
five gallons of blood in her body. Well, you know
you still need that volume of blood to function, Okay,
And that's just what we're seeing externally. Here's a trick though,
how much blood still remained in her chest, perhaps floating
(18:36):
about because she bled out into her body. You take
that and couple with what was externally observed, and yeah,
we do have a blood bath on our hands. Where's Mommy?
(19:05):
That's all I can think of. You got two kids,
the one thing dads are great, Okay, don't misconstrue what
I'm saying, But when you got little kids, the one
thing they want to know is where's mommy? Where's mommy?
(19:26):
I heard it with my kids. I hear with my grandkids.
And sometimes there's not enough hugs and kisses and warm
blankets and book reading and game playing to assuage the
worry over the absence of a mother. And all I
can think about, Dave is Rachel Castilla. Her kids are
(19:48):
wondering where she is, you know, absent, And little did
they know that that final time that they glimpsed their
mother was going to be it, that was going to
be it for the rest of their lives. That they're
not going to get a hug, They're not going to
get a kiss, they're not going to get an embrace,
(20:09):
they're not going to be corrected, they're not going to
be you know, uh uh told what to do in
the morning to get ready. That's that's vanished in at
the twinkling of an eye.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
It's so sad, Joe that.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I'm a found tired of men that just they're horrible
to the woman while they're living together as man and wife.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
They're horrible to the kids.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And then you know, they go crazy after that when
they're when they're kicked to the curb, and it's just, really,
this is your option, this is what you came up with,
This was your your best plan. You didn't treat her
right when you were here together, and now your best
idea is go ahead and kill her and then you
end up going to jail, So you basically have ruined
(20:55):
your children's life. You've killed her. Look, if you want
to ruin your own life, go do that. But my goodness,
I'm just done with these guys acting like they can
justify their activity somehow. And by the way, he tried
to here's your bottom line, four days, Joe. They're looking
for her for four days. This family, you know, her
sister was the one that walked into the apartment and
(21:16):
as you mentioned, there wasn't enough blood there that they
realized it was incompatible life.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
As as an eternal optimist, I would have been the
one to say, but mine might have survived. Mine could
have and I would have been out there on the street.
Have you seen this girl? There was a violent you know,
a violent attack happened. And the only thing they know
because police backed, you know, they got to figure out, well, okay,
who had the kids?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
All right?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
The ex husband as soon to be ex husband, had
the children. Where are they? Well he took them to
his parents' house, which is an hour and a half
away in Victorville. And as they're looking around spending four
days with hanging flyers, and posters. I don't know how
they actually figured out where and what he had done,
(22:02):
but you got to know, a violent attack for no
reason doesn't happen usually, it's I wouldn't think anyway. At
any rate, they were able to triangulate figure out where
he where the body was because it was in the
middle of nowhere, Joe and by the way, I looked
at a map on this. He took her body to
(22:24):
Antelope Valley, the husband did, and buried her in a
shallow grave. And I looked at this, I thought, Okay,
there in Steamy Valley, you got Victorville, where his parents are,
and then Anaelope Valley. Now they're not close and they're
not on the way to one another. If you're going
to Antelope Valley, you're going there. If you're going to Victorville,
(22:47):
you're going there. You're not going to go to Victorville
by way of Anelote.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Valley or you know.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And so I kept trying to figure out, how did
they how did police tie this together? I don't know.
I'm going to assume this happened in twenty twenty. So
you got cell phones, you've got mileage on cars, you've
got basic ideology, of what a person is going to do.
Places they've been and they were able to eventually find
out that the husband did this. But Joe, when they
(23:17):
get him down and they're talking to the guy this,
I don't know how he could be a human being
like you and me. I know, we'd breathe the same
air and everything. But this guy admits that he killed
his wife. He leaves behind this bloody mess. He had
(23:37):
taken his kids to their grandparents, his parents, and he
takes her body up to Antalo Valley and buries it
in a shallow grave that he had prepared, I guess.
But then and he goes to say at his parents house,
hang out with his kids for.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
A little while. Now about two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Joe, kids are asleep, Mom and dad are asleep. He
Zar bob Ali goes back in the car and drives
back to Antelope Valley where he had buried his wife. Yeah,
I'll let you go ahead and tell us what happened next,
(24:14):
because I'm trying to figure out what kind of person
does this. And I would imagine at your stage of
the game, you quit doing that a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, you you know, sometimes you sit back and you
shake your head at the level of depravity out there.
And look, I know I get buzzed every now and
then by people that you know, think that I'm being judgmental,
and I'm thinking, Okay, if you think I'm being judgmental
in this particular case, I don't know, it might be
(24:46):
time for you to start, you know, I don't know,
spending time doing something other than listening to me, because
this is a real Uh. The common denominator here is
that you've got a mind that is so depraved. We
do know that Ali, he wrapped her, he wrapped her
(25:06):
body as he had you know, he had removed her
from her home. Uh. And you know, one of the
big questions I have, I think this goes back to
I think about this, you know, brings to mind Chris
Watts with me and how you know he had he
(25:28):
had those those babies in that car and they were
alive and the wife you know, was laying there, you know,
in the car, and he knew what he was doing.
And I often think about, you know, where were the
babies at this point in tom you know, did he
(25:50):
entertain the idea that he was going to transport them
at the same time, had he entertained that is there
some marker in the sand where he's saying, Okay, I've
gone too far. I'm not going to subject them to this.
I know that I've killed my wife. But if you
think that he is utilizing good judgment, it gets worse.
(26:13):
He really goes off the rails here because he's taken
her and has buried her. I'd like to know, I
think from a forensics perspective, how was this gravesite actually prepped?
Did he did he predig the hole? What tools were
utilized in order to facilitate this in the area, you know,
(26:35):
this Antelope Valley area, Dave. When you look at the
topography out there, and I know that you've spent time
in the desert, people think that desert is like blowing
sand like the Sahara, and that's that's kind of far
from it. I always think of, you know, crack scorched
earth is what I think of, you know, and very
(26:57):
very hard, almost like concrete. And did he prep the
grave in advance? What were his thoughts? What was it
about that particular area? Had he been there before, had
he been there with her, had he been there with
the kids? What is it that Drew him to that
location because he felt safe enough. Dave that after he
(27:20):
had brutally murdered her with a sharp sharp instrument, stabbed
her multiple times, wrapped her body up, he deposits her
out there. Well after she's deposited and has been there
for some time, he travels back to that location and
(27:42):
literally puts shovel to earth once again in the same spot.
He digs her up. Dave. Now, if she's encased in bedding, carpeting,
whatever it is, he literally has to kind of unscroll
her out of this covering that she's in. This is
(28:07):
there's a lot of there are a lot of things
going on here. After he takes her out, he lays
her on the ground. I don't know what the status
of her clothing was. Was she clothed? Did he rip
her clothing off of her? She's already started to decay,
(28:30):
he said, Morgan, how do you know that? I know
that because the moment we stop living, we begin to decay.
She's exposed to the elements. You say, Morgan, she's covered
in earth. Now she's still in a wild environment and
buried there. He is, in fact taking her body out
(28:54):
and Dave, this is where it really gets dark, he
sexually assaults the remains of his wife. To what point
does a person have to go to in order to
facilitate that is? What's the driver? Is it a control issue?
(29:16):
Is it wanting to really relive the brutality. I think
back to those images, and I don't know if you
remember this. Do you remember the images of BTK where
there were these polaroids that he had taken. You remember
polaroids used to have the timer and you could set
it up on a tripod and it would snap an image.
(29:37):
He had cameras that were set up that way. And
he's all dressed and I remember one that stood out.
I think he's wearing a woman's slip. He's got a
wig on. He might have that damn mask on that
he wore. He's bound and he's in a grave taking
pictures of himself.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Is there?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think the big question is is that are you
talking about a body that are you talking about something
behind him that triggers arousal with him? Had he always
fantasized about having her dead? Because a lot of these necrophiles,
(30:18):
they do not function well with the living. That's why
they're necro files. I think my question is did he
have any previous experience. Because I hate to say this,
It's one thing to murder the mother of your children.
It's a completely different kettle of fish to take those
(30:41):
brutalized remains, dig them out of that soil and begin
to rape all that remains. Well, my apologies day for
(31:06):
you know, exposing you to what I just exposed you to.
I think that there's however, I think that to really
process this, we have to understand that Ali would have
made just let me kind of unspool this for you
a little bit. He would have made potentially a biological
(31:28):
deposition onto her remains that would be fresh or fresh
air that have that arose in the wake of her death. Okay,
now that's got a creepy factor to it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
All.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's completely apart from everything else. And let me tell
you this, Because he's coming in contact with her decomposing remains,
not only would he have contact drawing away from her.
Remember Lacart principle, Every contact leaves a trace. If she's
got skin slippage, if she's got bloating, if she has
(32:06):
got any kind of purge that is arising from her
remains that would have transferred onto him. It would have
been on his skin, his clothing, he would have smelled
of death. Here's the other thing. Because of the action
that is involved in a rape. If and we know
(32:31):
that she was she stabbed multiple times, you're actually still
going to have blood body fluids that can include decompositional
fluids that will be issuing from those wounds as well.
That just goes to the mechanism of the sexual act. Okay,
so you've got a lot working here. When you think
(32:53):
about this, you know these are horribly this is a
horribly grotesque tale. But Dave, this is you know how
we're always saying there's nothing new under the sun. Just
this past summer, there's a maintenance worker at hospital and
(33:15):
I think it's in East Sussex or Sussex, Great Britain.
They've hooked this guy up on charges. This is in
Great Britain. They've hooked him up on charges stemming from
his contact with what they're thinking are one hundred dead
(33:35):
women and girls over a twelve year period at two
separate what they're referring to as Kent hospitals over there
where he has actually been found to be engaged in
necrophilic activities with these bodies. They also think he might
be a serial killer as well. He may have killed
(33:57):
two women. So for those of you guys out there
that are hearing this and you think that this is
not something, that this is kind of an outler, that
it doesn't happen, I'm here to tell you that it does.
And it's something that's gone on for years and years.
I think a lot of it has to do with
dominance and control. And again, in no way, I'm in
(34:20):
no way a profiler, but I have been around enough
profilers to know that one of the things that these
people that think like this, I think Jeffrey Dahmer is
the perfect example of this because if you remember from
the court record with Jeffrey Dahmer, he stated that he
wanted to create zombies, right, yes, sex slaves that he
(34:44):
could dominate and control. And even after that, he felt
as though that when he had them, you know, as
they're in the throes of death, they were still warm
to the touch, but he would retain them for a
while and you know, kind of play house with them,
you know, you know, he could hug them, he could
(35:04):
hold them, he could say and of course he winds
up also engaging in cannibalism, there's not too many degrees
of separation here. I think once you start down this
really dark path with people like this, you know, all
bets are off at that point. You know, it's kind
of open season. And that's why I think that in
(35:29):
Ali's case, I would be very curious to dig into
his past. I hope that somebody is digging into his
past to find to try to determine if this is
something he's had an inclination towards before, if this is
something that he has engaged with or engaged in before,
(35:50):
because it's just it's absolutely terrifying and disgusting on so
many levels.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Dave.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
You know, he was twenty five, as was Rachel the
time that she was killed. He's twenty eight now. And again,
this happened in November of twenty twenty two, and there
are a couple of things that happened. And I was
looking at his confession to police when he was arrested
versus what came up at trial. Now in the right
(36:16):
after he was arrested. He was arrested after a couple
of days, you know, and that's where he admitted and
by the way, he didn't.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
A lot of these.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Killers, they tell a story to police while they're while
they're admitting what they've done, but they confess in a
way that relieves them of some of the constants, you know,
like they didn't do it except she hit me first
or whatever. But in this case, he told police when
he sits down, he said, just to confirm that I
am a monster, I went dug rep and raped her.
(36:49):
He actually told them that. He didn't say I went
and I loved on her one last time. I was
sorry for what I did. Nothing like that. No, he said,
I went back at two o'clock in the morning, dug
her up and I raped her. I raped her dead body,
just to provide I'm a monster.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
And you know, and this is unfortunately, uh, this is
a story. Lord. I hate to use the word legacy,
but this is you know, parents are one thing, you know,
in her peripheral family. No disrespect to them, but these babies,
they're going to live with this, you know, forever and ever. Amen.
(37:27):
You know, this is a tale that will and they're
going to know there's no way, you know, the Internet
never dies, right, you know, and curious minds, you know,
you can just imagine off in the future. They want
to find out the dirty details. Well, they'll be able
to access all of the transcripts from every one of
(37:48):
the proceedings. They'll be able to have access to that.
Particularly as we move further and further into the future,
they're going to want to know answers because you know,
like like many of us out there, we're imprinted with
those experiences that we had in childhood. We bear them
for the rest of our lives. And you know, we're
(38:11):
not saying that the kids are destined, they're destined, you know,
to behave in a manner like this, But what we
are saying is that parents make decisions and they saddle
children with burdens that no human being should have to bear,
(38:35):
particularly the children of Rachel Castia. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
and this is bodyby
Body balance. But Joseph's gotten more. Just about every industry
has some kind of mythology that comes along with it. Now,
you know, when we think about mythology, many times we
think about ancient stories, right, And you know, I would
imagine that there are things even in the information technology
(00:26):
world that are mythologized. Now in death investigation though, and
specifically working in morgues and that sort of thing. They
are these stories that float around and people always come
to you to want to know if if this is
actually true, you know, like do the dead actually sit up?
Do they talk to you? Do they you know, they
(00:47):
experience pain? Of actually have people ask me that? And
there are those stories that are out there that you
kind of think about and you know that there is
a kernel of truth in them. And one such story
was relayed to me by a friend that worked in
(01:10):
a very specific medical examiner's office. I'm not going to
say the name of it. And there was a particularly
brutal homicide that occurred in this jurisdiction and an assisted
district attorney, the pathologist that was going to do the autopsy,
and a detective showed up early one morning to attend
(01:34):
the autopsy of this just brutalized victim. And upon their arrival,
they walk in to the ancient autopsy suite that has
been there for probably close to one hundred years, and
(01:54):
there they heard noise, the rattling of metal on metal,
and when they walked in, they beheld a fellow who
had been assigned to this medical examiner's office from the
local jail, who was a trustee, and that subject was
(02:16):
in a tray with a deceased elderly woman, let's say,
violating her born out before their very eyes. I don't
necessarily think that story is anecdotal. And you think, Morgan,
can we go any lower? We can't. You've been on
(02:42):
this journey with me now for many years. We can't
go lower. And today we're going to plumb those depths
once again because there is a story in the news
right now that will either turn your stomach or set
your hair on end. I'm talking about a fellow who
(03:05):
killed his wife, buried his wife, then dug up her
remains and did be unthinkable. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and
this is Buddy Banks Dave. I love the term plumbing
(03:28):
the depths. I don't know. Maybe I should have been
in the Navy instead of the army, you know, because
you think I've always imagined myself on some ancient ship,
you know, when they before they had sonar, and they're
sailing out in the blue water, and they have no
idea about the depths that they're sailing over. And I
(03:49):
can just imagine whatever kind of rudimentary, rudimentary device they
had that where they could actually tell how deep something was,
they knew they weren't touching the bottom. I can't say
that in the world of depravity that we are touching
the bottom here, but I think we're on the fast
track to it. What do you say?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
My friend, Rachel Castilla was five feet two inches tall,
joe weigh one hundred and five pounds. She was a
young woman who had educated herself worked really hard. Mama too,
worked really hard, putting herself through school to be educated
(04:30):
because she wanted to help other women and other people
in relationship issues.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
She wanted to be there for other people.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
She knew she needed to be there for other people
because of the relationship that she had been in with
her husband, zar Bob Ali. What Ali confessed to Joseph
Scott Morgan is something that you once said you know,
Ted Bundy used to go back and raise his victims
(05:01):
after they were already decomposing. And I thought, you were
trying to make me sick. And I looked it up
and studied and went, you've got to be kidding.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
He wasn't joking.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
This is almost as bad because, if not worse, because
this is a woman that you were married to. Now
she has put him on the road. She they've been
separated nine months, and in that nine month period of time,
she wanted him to still have a really good relationship
with the kids and allowed him to stay there in
(05:33):
the department together. She brought her sister in because he
got to be too much, and they moved him out.
But she went that far. She'd been over backwards in
this relationship to make it work for him. And the
way he returned that as she was getting her freedom,
he he plotted and planned, Joe, he plotted and planned
(05:57):
so that he could get the children. It was his
day to have them. And as I said, they had
been separated in nine months. He lived there with her
for the first six months, but then he just was
getting to be too much of a rat hole and
she kicked them in to the curb, and so he's
been in his own place for about three months, and
so he gets the kids for his visitation. He takes
(06:18):
them hour and a half two hours wait to his parents'
house and then drives back and sits outside the apartment
in the bushes, waiting for her to get home. And
when he sees Rachel get home from work, he sneaks
in behind her. See, he wasn't waiting inside the apartment.
He waited until she went in, so she you know,
(06:39):
because what at the time that we're the most app
to look around at things, be really aware of our surroundings.
Right when we first walk into an empty home, you're
gonna smell things. You know, you would smell somebody's odors
if they were there in a darkened home. He stayed
outside waiting for her to get in. She goes into
the bedroom, she gets the bathroom, whatever, and he waits
(07:01):
and when she opens the door from her bedroom, this man,
who was her husband, they have two children together, killed
her with a knife. And that was only the beginning
of the horror. Now, Joe, if you stab somebody in
(07:23):
the chest, you've seen the crime scenes after the fact.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I have.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Reported on many of these where people try to clean
them up, and it's really an impossible task unless you
have many people in the right equipment to clean up
that kind of blood that comes out of a human
body when they're bleeding out, which is what happened here.
He did try to clean it up, didn't work.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I've often wondered about this, and I think I've
even stated it on body bags several times because we've
covered a lot of these cass I've often thought that
you would. Now I'm glad you brought brought up the
idea of equipment, and of course equipment goes to planning, right,
so you know, would it be possible to go into
(08:14):
a location and say, for instance, you had are at
your ready, you had safe for instance, something like a
steam cleaner, you know, where you could go in and
you could swab down the area perhaps another nautical term there,
like swabbing the deck. Swab it down, swab it down
with I don't know, some type of detergent, go back
(08:38):
over it, swab it down with bleach. Let that set,
and then you go back in and you essentially apply
steam to it. It would be it would be a
monumental undertaking. And here's you know the physical process of
(08:59):
doing that. First off, one of the things that's always
going to get you is that blood itself and its
deposition many times is so tiny that you're not going
to get everything. You're you're you're just not. I mean,
it's when you think about the spray and you know,
(09:24):
you talked about how she was stabbed. Let's just say,
for instance, she stabbed in the chest, which all indications
are I think at this point in time it has occurred.
We saw this with Travis Alexander's murder at the hands
of Jody Arius. There's a great photo if you if
(09:48):
you guys ever get a chance to take a look
at it from his bathroom where he walks over to
the sink and he has expirated blood. People like to
say aspirated, but aspirated is like you're taking it in, okay,
and the expiration is where you you know, kind of called.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, I've used that term wrong, now.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
No, no, no, it's okay. I've used I've used the
term wrong. And actually here's something. Here's something. A good
friend of mine over in Great Britain, and she is
regarded as one of the world's leading experts in blood deposition,
interpretation and she actually I was doing an interview with
(10:32):
her where I was interviewing her at Crime Con UK
and embarrassment of embarrassment, she corrected me on stage, and
so I've been very careful about that, you know, talking
about that.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
But you know, just it is looking nicer when a
British person corrects you in public. Does it feel like
at least they're being polite while they do it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, yeah, to a certain degree.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, even when we're really smart.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, they do have a polite way. It's they
are much a can of Southerners that say bless your heart.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
By the way, if one of us meets you somewhere
and you do something stupid, we will say pleasure heart,
bless your heart, a word you never want to hear
after your name, Bless your heart.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Dave my grandmother, you say, bless your poor little pointed head.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
There you go, and uh o, hey, let me ask
you something, queenly you mentioned about like blood being so
difficult to get. Is it because blood isn't just kool aid,
It's not just a red liquid. It's got iron in it,
it's got other things in it that are difficult to
clean up.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Is that the case.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, blood is not a stand alone liquid. You know,
when you say blood, you know you have to think
about all the components that are contained in blood. You've
got RBC's, red blood cells, you got white blood cells,
you got serum, there's plasma, so you've you've got all
of these components. And interestingly enough, if you have like
(11:59):
a big bully bood letting at a scene, did you
know that you can Actually this is kind of a
cool thing from a scientific standpoint, and I've often wondered
if there was any way that we could utilize this
to determine post mortem interval, But that's beside the point.
(12:20):
If you have a so called pool of blood, Dave,
did you know that on like a flat surface, it
has to be a smooth surface. Not going to happen
on carpet or you won't be able to appreciate it
on carpet, But it like on a smooth linoleum surface,
like in a kitchen or a bathroom or a tiled surface.
Did you know that you can actually see the serum
(12:42):
in the blood separating from the RBC's where you've got
this kind of yellowish clear liquid that's over here, and
it is it's still viscous, which means thick you know,
but you see the red blood cells migrating to one side,
and of course this is a marker in time. Well,
(13:03):
why does it not do that in the body. Well,
it's kind of like a gas and oil mix, you know,
like on a what is.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
It a two stroke engine?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, so it's always it's always churning, you know why
in life are you know, it's always churning and death though,
and particularly if it spills out of the body, you'll
see it separate out and separates this migration that takes place.
So yeah, it's it is a complex liquid and it
(13:33):
is viscous and viscosity. We hear that term applied when
you're buying motor oil or you know, the motorole commercials.
They'll say it has a certain viscosity to it, you know,
some talking head will say that in the background over
watching you know, court of oil being poured into an engine,
and that goes to thickness. Right, So when you expiate blood,
(13:58):
which happens lots of times chest injuries, how does that happen? Well,
if a knife is inserted into the chest and it
passes through the chest wall and it gets into the
lung You've got tons of vessels in the lungs. Well,
they also communicate with the bronchial tree. Okay, So the
(14:21):
blood will leach out into these spaces and when we exhale, okay,
you know, carbon dioxide putting it out. You've got blood
that is being infused into the airway and it is
sprayed out at that point in time. That's called expiration.
So it's aspirated, you know, and then it's expiated, and
(14:44):
then it's particulated, and it particulated when it goes out.
If you again back to Travis Alexander, when you look
at that crime scene photo at his sink, you'd have
these particulated bits of blood everywhere. Didn't She didn't even
make a a half ass attempt at cleaning up there.
(15:05):
She just left. You've got a guy here, this guy
from Seemi Valley, California, that has made an attempt to
clean up. But David, there's no way, it's almost empirical
impossibility to clean up every bit of a remnant that's
left behind.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I think I'm sorry it worse based on what her
sister said, because it was her sister that came home
and found her. Her sister was gone, you know, and
they called the police because it's missing persons, you know,
thing at first, but you know, it just hit me
when you were talking about what it would take to
be prepared, you know, his steam cleaner and having all
this preparation, you know. And I'm not trying to find
(15:46):
a reason to credit the mob with anything but ins
a movie, even with Goodfellas, when Joe Peshy is getting
into the face he walks in and he's standing on
plastic because they prepare the room by laying down plasket
so that there's your blood. Yeah, and they just roll
it up, put them in carpet, take them out. But
in this case, the blood was so bad when her
when it's when her sister arrived home and she doesn't
(16:08):
see you know, there's nobody there. Calls police and they come.
They said it was the bloodiest crime scene they'd ever seen.
And even though it was a missing person's they you know, kidnapping.
It was a violent kidnapping, but it was police, I think.
And you would know this because you're around them all
the time. They do have a wink and a nod
with one another on whether or not they believe somebody
(16:29):
is still able to survive and live. Yeah, after what
they're looking at. And I mean I think in just
what they saw, they knew they were not looking for
a live person. They were going to be looking for
a body.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, and that's you know, and that's again, this goes
to terminology. You talked about the wink of the nod
with the police will put it in clinical terms in
the forensics world, where you'll hear a you'll hear a
forensic pathologist, and this goes to case and there are
cases out there, and I urge everybody to to remember
this because you'll hear it again in the future. There
(17:03):
are cases out there where a forensic pathologies. Even though
you cannot quantify, Dave, I want everybody to hear my words.
You cannot. Even you can't quantify, you can kind of qualify.
You can look at a blood stain and say, based
(17:25):
upon what I'm seeing here, the amount of blood that
is here in this space is what's referred to as
being incompatible with life. That means that there's so much
spillage there that you know, and for a woman her size,
and the volume of blood in the human body, it
(17:47):
varies from person to person. Now, we do know that
she is rather diminutive. She's not a big woman, and
so you think top in with her. I would imagine
maybe two gallons in her body. Okay, if you want to,
just think about two milk jucks. Okay, standard gallon milk
jucks might be on the low end here. You know,
(18:11):
we might be talking I don't know, one point seventy
five gallons of blood in her body. Well, you know
you still need that volume of blood to function, Okay,
And that's just what we're seeing externally. Here's a trick though,
how much blood still remained in her chest, perhaps floating
(18:36):
about because she bled out into her body. You take
that and couple with what was externally observed, and yeah,
we do have a blood bath on our hands. Where's Mommy?
(19:05):
That's all I can think of. You got two kids,
the one thing dads are great, Okay, don't misconstrue what
I'm saying, But when you got little kids, the one
thing they want to know is where's mommy? Where's mommy?
(19:26):
I heard it with my kids. I hear with my grandkids.
And sometimes there's not enough hugs and kisses and warm
blankets and book reading and game playing to assuage the
worry over the absence of a mother. And all I
can think about, Dave is Rachel Castilla. Her kids are
(19:48):
wondering where she is, you know, absent, And little did
they know that that final time that they glimpsed their
mother was going to be it, that was going to
be it for the rest of their lives. That they're
not going to get a hug, They're not going to
get a kiss, they're not going to get an embrace,
(20:09):
they're not going to be corrected, they're not going to
be you know, uh uh told what to do in
the morning to get ready. That's that's vanished in at
the twinkling of an eye.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
It's so sad, Joe that.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I'm a found tired of men that just they're horrible
to the woman while they're living together as man and wife.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
They're horrible to the kids.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And then you know, they go crazy after that when
they're when they're kicked to the curb, and it's just, really,
this is your option, this is what you came up with,
This was your your best plan. You didn't treat her
right when you were here together, and now your best
idea is go ahead and kill her and then you
end up going to jail, So you basically have ruined
(20:55):
your children's life. You've killed her. Look, if you want
to ruin your own life, go do that. But my goodness,
I'm just done with these guys acting like they can
justify their activity somehow. And by the way, he tried
to here's your bottom line, four days, Joe. They're looking
for her for four days. This family, you know, her
sister was the one that walked into the apartment and
(21:16):
as you mentioned, there wasn't enough blood there that they
realized it was incompatible life.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
As as an eternal optimist, I would have been the
one to say, but mine might have survived. Mine could
have and I would have been out there on the street.
Have you seen this girl? There was a violent you know,
a violent attack happened. And the only thing they know
because police backed, you know, they got to figure out, well, okay,
who had the kids?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
All right?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
The ex husband as soon to be ex husband, had
the children. Where are they? Well he took them to
his parents' house, which is an hour and a half
away in Victorville. And as they're looking around spending four
days with hanging flyers, and posters. I don't know how
they actually figured out where and what he had done,
(22:02):
but you got to know, a violent attack for no
reason doesn't happen usually, it's I wouldn't think anyway. At
any rate, they were able to triangulate figure out where
he where the body was because it was in the
middle of nowhere, Joe and by the way, I looked
at a map on this. He took her body to
(22:24):
Antelope Valley, the husband did, and buried her in a
shallow grave. And I looked at this, I thought, Okay,
there in Steamy Valley, you got Victorville, where his parents are,
and then Anaelope Valley. Now they're not close and they're
not on the way to one another. If you're going
to Antelope Valley, you're going there. If you're going to Victorville,
(22:47):
you're going there. You're not going to go to Victorville
by way of Anelote.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Valley or you know.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And so I kept trying to figure out, how did
they how did police tie this together? I don't know.
I'm going to assume this happened in twenty twenty. So
you got cell phones, you've got mileage on cars, you've
got basic ideology, of what a person is going to do.
Places they've been and they were able to eventually find
out that the husband did this. But Joe, when they
(23:17):
get him down and they're talking to the guy this,
I don't know how he could be a human being
like you and me. I know, we'd breathe the same
air and everything. But this guy admits that he killed
his wife. He leaves behind this bloody mess. He had
(23:37):
taken his kids to their grandparents, his parents, and he
takes her body up to Antalo Valley and buries it
in a shallow grave that he had prepared, I guess.
But then and he goes to say at his parents house,
hang out with his kids for.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
A little while. Now about two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Joe, kids are asleep, Mom and dad are asleep. He
Zar bob Ali goes back in the car and drives
back to Antelope Valley where he had buried his wife. Yeah,
I'll let you go ahead and tell us what happened next,
(24:14):
because I'm trying to figure out what kind of person
does this. And I would imagine at your stage of
the game, you quit doing that a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, you you know, sometimes you sit back and you
shake your head at the level of depravity out there.
And look, I know I get buzzed every now and
then by people that you know, think that I'm being judgmental,
and I'm thinking, Okay, if you think I'm being judgmental
in this particular case, I don't know, it might be
(24:46):
time for you to start, you know, I don't know,
spending time doing something other than listening to me, because
this is a real Uh. The common denominator here is
that you've got a mind that is so depraved. We
do know that Ali, he wrapped her, he wrapped her
(25:06):
body as he had you know, he had removed her
from her home. Uh. And you know, one of the
big questions I have, I think this goes back to
I think about this, you know, brings to mind Chris
Watts with me and how you know he had he
(25:28):
had those those babies in that car and they were
alive and the wife you know, was laying there, you know,
in the car, and he knew what he was doing.
And I often think about, you know, where were the
babies at this point in tom you know, did he
(25:50):
entertain the idea that he was going to transport them
at the same time, had he entertained that is there
some marker in the sand where he's saying, Okay, I've
gone too far. I'm not going to subject them to this.
I know that I've killed my wife. But if you
think that he is utilizing good judgment, it gets worse.
(26:13):
He really goes off the rails here because he's taken
her and has buried her. I'd like to know, I
think from a forensics perspective, how was this gravesite actually prepped?
Did he did he predig the hole? What tools were
utilized in order to facilitate this in the area, you know,
(26:35):
this Antelope Valley area, Dave. When you look at the
topography out there, and I know that you've spent time
in the desert, people think that desert is like blowing
sand like the Sahara, and that's that's kind of far
from it. I always think of, you know, crack scorched
earth is what I think of, you know, and very
(26:57):
very hard, almost like concrete. And did he prep the
grave in advance? What were his thoughts? What was it
about that particular area? Had he been there before, had
he been there with her, had he been there with
the kids? What is it that Drew him to that
location because he felt safe enough. Dave that after he
(27:20):
had brutally murdered her with a sharp sharp instrument, stabbed
her multiple times, wrapped her body up, he deposits her
out there. Well after she's deposited and has been there
for some time, he travels back to that location and
(27:42):
literally puts shovel to earth once again in the same spot.
He digs her up. Dave. Now, if she's encased in bedding, carpeting,
whatever it is, he literally has to kind of unscroll
her out of this covering that she's in. This is
(28:07):
there's a lot of there are a lot of things
going on here. After he takes her out, he lays
her on the ground. I don't know what the status
of her clothing was. Was she clothed? Did he rip
her clothing off of her? She's already started to decay,
(28:30):
he said, Morgan, how do you know that? I know
that because the moment we stop living, we begin to decay.
She's exposed to the elements. You say, Morgan, she's covered
in earth. Now she's still in a wild environment and
buried there. He is, in fact taking her body out
(28:54):
and Dave, this is where it really gets dark, he
sexually assaults the remains of his wife. To what point
does a person have to go to in order to
facilitate that is? What's the driver? Is it a control issue?
(29:16):
Is it wanting to really relive the brutality. I think
back to those images, and I don't know if you
remember this. Do you remember the images of BTK where
there were these polaroids that he had taken. You remember
polaroids used to have the timer and you could set
it up on a tripod and it would snap an image.
(29:37):
He had cameras that were set up that way. And
he's all dressed and I remember one that stood out.
I think he's wearing a woman's slip. He's got a
wig on. He might have that damn mask on that
he wore. He's bound and he's in a grave taking
pictures of himself.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Is there?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think the big question is is that are you
talking about a body that are you talking about something
behind him that triggers arousal with him? Had he always
fantasized about having her dead? Because a lot of these necrophiles,
(30:18):
they do not function well with the living. That's why
they're necro files. I think my question is did he
have any previous experience. Because I hate to say this,
It's one thing to murder the mother of your children.
It's a completely different kettle of fish to take those
(30:41):
brutalized remains, dig them out of that soil and begin
to rape all that remains. Well, my apologies day for
(31:06):
you know, exposing you to what I just exposed you to.
I think that there's however, I think that to really
process this, we have to understand that Ali would have
made just let me kind of unspool this for you
a little bit. He would have made potentially a biological
(31:28):
deposition onto her remains that would be fresh or fresh
air that have that arose in the wake of her death. Okay,
now that's got a creepy factor to it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
All.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
That's completely apart from everything else. And let me tell
you this, Because he's coming in contact with her decomposing remains,
not only would he have contact drawing away from her.
Remember Lacart principle, Every contact leaves a trace. If she's
got skin slippage, if she's got bloating, if she has
(32:06):
got any kind of purge that is arising from her
remains that would have transferred onto him. It would have
been on his skin, his clothing, he would have smelled
of death. Here's the other thing. Because of the action
that is involved in a rape. If and we know
(32:31):
that she was she stabbed multiple times, you're actually still
going to have blood body fluids that can include decompositional
fluids that will be issuing from those wounds as well.
That just goes to the mechanism of the sexual act. Okay,
so you've got a lot working here. When you think
(32:53):
about this, you know these are horribly this is a
horribly grotesque tale. But Dave, this is you know how
we're always saying there's nothing new under the sun. Just
this past summer, there's a maintenance worker at hospital and
(33:15):
I think it's in East Sussex or Sussex, Great Britain.
They've hooked this guy up on charges. This is in
Great Britain. They've hooked him up on charges stemming from
his contact with what they're thinking are one hundred dead
(33:35):
women and girls over a twelve year period at two
separate what they're referring to as Kent hospitals over there
where he has actually been found to be engaged in
necrophilic activities with these bodies. They also think he might
be a serial killer as well. He may have killed
(33:57):
two women. So for those of you guys out there
that are hearing this and you think that this is
not something, that this is kind of an outler, that
it doesn't happen, I'm here to tell you that it does.
And it's something that's gone on for years and years.
I think a lot of it has to do with
dominance and control. And again, in no way, I'm in
(34:20):
no way a profiler, but I have been around enough
profilers to know that one of the things that these
people that think like this, I think Jeffrey Dahmer is
the perfect example of this because if you remember from
the court record with Jeffrey Dahmer, he stated that he
wanted to create zombies, right, yes, sex slaves that he
(34:44):
could dominate and control. And even after that, he felt
as though that when he had them, you know, as
they're in the throes of death, they were still warm
to the touch, but he would retain them for a
while and you know, kind of play house with them,
you know, you know, he could hug them, he could
(35:04):
hold them, he could say and of course he winds
up also engaging in cannibalism, there's not too many degrees
of separation here. I think once you start down this
really dark path with people like this, you know, all
bets are off at that point. You know, it's kind
of open season. And that's why I think that in
(35:29):
Ali's case, I would be very curious to dig into
his past. I hope that somebody is digging into his
past to find to try to determine if this is
something he's had an inclination towards before, if this is
something that he has engaged with or engaged in before,
(35:50):
because it's just it's absolutely terrifying and disgusting on so
many levels.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Dave.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
You know, he was twenty five, as was Rachel the
time that she was killed. He's twenty eight now. And again,
this happened in November of twenty twenty two, and there
are a couple of things that happened. And I was
looking at his confession to police when he was arrested
versus what came up at trial. Now in the right
(36:16):
after he was arrested. He was arrested after a couple
of days, you know, and that's where he admitted and
by the way, he didn't.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
A lot of these.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Killers, they tell a story to police while they're while
they're admitting what they've done, but they confess in a
way that relieves them of some of the constants, you know,
like they didn't do it except she hit me first
or whatever. But in this case, he told police when
he sits down, he said, just to confirm that I
am a monster, I went dug rep and raped her.
(36:49):
He actually told them that. He didn't say I went
and I loved on her one last time. I was
sorry for what I did. Nothing like that. No, he said,
I went back at two o'clock in the morning, dug
her up and I raped her. I raped her dead body,
just to provide I'm a monster.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
And you know, and this is unfortunately, uh, this is
a story. Lord. I hate to use the word legacy,
but this is you know, parents are one thing, you know,
in her peripheral family. No disrespect to them, but these babies,
they're going to live with this, you know, forever and ever. Amen.
(37:27):
You know, this is a tale that will and they're
going to know there's no way, you know, the Internet
never dies, right, you know, and curious minds, you know,
you can just imagine off in the future. They want
to find out the dirty details. Well, they'll be able
to access all of the transcripts from every one of
(37:48):
the proceedings. They'll be able to have access to that.
Particularly as we move further and further into the future,
they're going to want to know answers because you know,
like like many of us out there, we're imprinted with
those experiences that we had in childhood. We bear them
for the rest of our lives. And you know, we're
(38:11):
not saying that the kids are destined, they're destined, you know,
to behave in a manner like this, But what we
are saying is that parents make decisions and they saddle
children with burdens that no human being should have to bear,
(38:35):
particularly the children of Rachel Castia. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
and this is bodyby
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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