June 11, 2024 • 37 mins
The victims of the Long Island Serial Killer have been known in the media as the “Gilgo 4”, but now that Rex Heuermann has been charged with two more murders the media will have to change the name to the “Gilgo 6”. Rex Heuermann is an architect by trade, someone who can create and use blueprints. Investigators found a Serial Killer Blueprint on Heuermann’s computer. On this episode of Body Bags, Joseph Scott Morgan will explain how DNA evidence and hair might be enough to put away Rex Heuermann for good, and Dave Mack will explore some of the items found on Heuermann’s computer. From disturbing images of abuse and porn, to lists of supplies for torture, investigators found a goldmine during a recent search of Heuermann’s home.
Transcript Highlights
00:00:08 Introduction of Gilgo details
00:02:09 Discuss Rex Heuermann two new murder charges
00:07:19 Discussion of Data from a forensic standpoint
00:12:01 Talk about seeing the dumping ground and home of Heuermann
00:16:58 Discussion of more bodies found along Gilgo
00:21:18 Discussion of area, easy to be seen
00:25:25 Discussion of the court documents, new information
00:29:37 Talk about changes in DNA science since early 90s
00:33:36 Discussion of skin and injury
00:37:05 Conclusion – more bodies
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I felt compelled to
sit down in the chair today with you, guys. I
gotta tell you, I'm I have to talk about these
(00:30):
latest developments with the so called Gilgo Beach murders. This
is in the wake of this recent charging document. Let
us come up, let's have a brief moment here, and
I'm going to rattle off some names to you. Rex
(00:51):
Huerman has been charged with the first screen murder of
Melissa Bartholemy, the first murder of Megan Waterman, the first
degree murder of Emperor Costello, and the second agree murder
(01:11):
of Maureen Brainerd Barnes. Unfortunately, the list has grown, so
as of this recording we must add the second degree
murder of Jessica Taylor and the second degree murder of
(01:33):
Sandra Castilla. We always have to remember the victims. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags, Dave. This
is a very sad day. It is a day where
(01:57):
this ghoulish list has grown by two at this point
in time. I don't think I can't speak for you,
my friend, but I mean I don't. I didn't know
what to expect. I had a lot of people knew,
with media organizations reaching out to let me know that
this was happening. This was days and days back. And
(02:20):
of course I've got a lot of friends that spend
in the podcasting world that spend a tremendous amount of
time on the Gilgo cases.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, good grief, Joe, this has been covered for years.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, it had done it.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
You know, we've done it here. You and I have
both been on with other shows covering this case. There
have been documentaries over the years. There have been so
many different angles on this that when Rex Huerman was arrested,
he wasn't somebody that was in my line of fire
(02:57):
in terms of what we had looked at previously. I mean,
we've this case has been looked at from every angle,
including police involvement in the murders. And I think back
to the different programs where different people said different theories,
and they would a lot of times people will get
so invested in a theory that they present it as
(03:17):
a fact, and you have to remind yourself they're no
different than you and me. They're not in the investigation.
They're merely looking out on the outside end and they
think X, Y Z. But we already had the GUILDG four.
Those were the first ones, and in reality they were
labeled the guil Go for even though there were only
three that he'd been charged with. The fourth one came later,
(03:39):
but there was that presumption that he was that guy.
But you and I both pointed out there are more
than just four bodies here. We're dealing with maybe more
than one serial killer, for crying out loud, and one
of the things that came up was Manerville. It's a
bit of a drive away from Gilgo, and yet there
(04:03):
was a connection there because torso of a victim was
found at Manorville, O their body parts found at Guilgo.
And immediately it was, oh, my goodness, Joe, are we
dealing with more than one person working together to kill
these people? I mean, what are we really dealing with?
And now looking at this new information from investigators, it
(04:31):
actually helps tie a few things together because I really
wondered how, you know, some things were fitting in And
as we look at this today, adding to the list
of the original Gilgo for the two people that have
been added Jessica Taylor and Sandra Cristia. And Jessica Taylor
was that person that ties Rex Huerman to Manorville.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Manorville, Yes, and gilgo.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So now we have that connection and it's not two
separate people. This person rack sureman, boy, I know he's
a human being.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I know, I know where you're going, where you going,
what he has done, I know. It's it's it's hard
to take the measure of it.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
You've seen so many things over the years, Joe, and
I'm having to think that if you were to walk
in this dude's, this person's basement and realize this is
a torture slash death chamber, it would still give you
a he be GBI's wouldn't it?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah? Yeah, I would. I mean if if I had
the knowledge of what had gone on. It's weird when
you're an investigator, you try to I think there's part
of you tries to galvanize your mind against you know,
this your humanity. If you all know that sounds very
you know, but that's one of the things you have
to do to function that environment. And we've got police
(05:54):
officers and investigators that have made multiple trips out there,
and isn't that a fascinating thing to consider? Knowing what
they know? Because as you well stated, just a few
moments ago. There is nobody and I mean nobody that's
outside of this investigated bubble that knows everything. And we
(06:16):
should not know everything, because right now we are in
the midst of a game of chess, if you will,
and we're spectators, all right, and that really needs to
seep down into everybody's brain. Here we are merely spectators
of what's kind of transpiring before us. You've got prosecutors
(06:38):
from the county and then you have Huerman's defense team.
Now in light of what the state released yesterday with
this document, and Dave a gout to tell you, brother,
I don't remember a document like this in recent memory
that details what's a graphic nature of kind of what
(07:02):
was going on behind the eyes allegedly with this person,
the accused. It is a matter of trying to understand
this analytically without getting caught up in the emotion of
it if you're an investigator prosecutor moving forward point by point,
and there are a lot of points here, because the
(07:24):
data alone, just from a forensic standpoint day is so dense.
All of these various considerations, everything from electronic forensics to
certainly all of the biological elements of evidence being collected,
we've got hair, I don't know that we have blood.
And then we have all of the medical legal considerations
(07:46):
as well with these bodies who, let's face it, they've
been severely abused, allegedly abused before death and the animal state,
but my gosh, certainly abused and desecrated in a post
(08:06):
mortem state. So you've got all of those factors working
in and we haven't even talked about the actual you know,
circumstantial stuff that's out there and the investigator of the
shoe leather kind of stuff where you're going to knocking
on doors and interviewing people. This is merely which is
where we kind of dance. This is merely the forensic stuff.
And this stuff is so dense, and every for every
(08:29):
case that is added, those are more data points along
the way, and it begins to increase exponentially.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I thought it was fascinating when they referred to some
of the documentation that we're going to get into as
a blueprint for a serial killer or blueprint for murder,
because we are dealing with a person who is an
architect by trade and training, and the way that he
allegedly went about his business of killing and note taking
and it's not happenstance. It's pre planned, pre thought out
(09:01):
and beyond. And in these notes, rex Huerman allegedly acknowledges
next time. That's frightening Joe for the man to make
notes and say next time, which means he had no
plan on stopping. And I'm very curious if rex Huerman
(09:21):
between the years that he stopped that Gilgo stopped collecting
people or dead bodies, if rex Human found another dumpset
and continued, are we going to find another area that
rex Huerman? Because I just don't see him stopping all
of a sudden out of the thin air ten years ago.
(09:42):
He just decides, Okay, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, I don't. It would be very hard to convince
myself of that. And let's take this from another perspective.
He's obviously targeting women that are living on the front.
Just many of them are are associated with escort services.
(10:07):
And yeah, exactly. And you know, in my kind of
southern rural mind, it's very difficult. It was difficult for
me to appreciate how vast this population that he could
select from.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Is.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You know, when you flyd in New York, you've never
been to New York there's population density, and then there's
population density. You begin to see how vast this area
is and how many people occupied this very small space,
and it is a predator's playground. And isn't that interesting
Because in the document that we're going to talk about,
(10:45):
the word hunting is used, I believe, and he uses
the term playtime. And these are some of the most
ghastly things that any human being could participate in. What
we're hearing and is being alleged by the prosecutor here
(11:05):
is accurate. And one more thing, in all honesty, I
had never been to Long Island in my life. I'd
always heard about it. I have many friends that are
from Long Island, and this past April I had the
opportunity to be a guest and speak at the Hampton's
(11:30):
what's referred to as the Hampton's Who'd Done It. It's
a true crime thing that takes place up on up
on Long Island, and they generously flew Kim and I
in and we got to spend the weekend there talking
about cases. But while I was there, we were taken
too not only go go beach, because you have to
(11:50):
drive right by it en route to East Hampton, did you.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Know that ahead of time or was that kind of Hey,
we're on the way and this is where they're now.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
My buddy that was taking us up there, he said,
And my buddy that did this is that was so
kind to to chauffeur Kim and I from La Guardia
all the way up there, which it's about a two
and a half hour drive.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Okay, we're not talking about something. It's just down the
street next Monting.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
This is, this is, this is robust. I mean the
miles and the time. The time is a big thing up.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So he was telling you ahead of time, Hey, we're
in a drive right by here.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, my buddy is a retired NYPD cold case investigator.
And so not only did he take us to Gilgo Dave,
but he also took us to Huerman's home and we
you do trick or treat. No, I was not, And
it actually it was kind of chilling because the place itself,
(12:45):
when you're outside of it, you understand that it's first off,
it's a dump and it's a d surrounding homes right,
oh my gosh. Yeah, and these are not mansions, okay,
but they're very very expensive because it's long island and
you're more proximal to the city than you are, say,
out toward Montac and all of that area. You know,
(13:06):
when you begin to consider this neighborhood, this little town
where where you know, this family hangs their hat and
there was a car in the driveway, all these sorts
of things. So this pre this predates by you know,
a month or so, this new visitation that we bore
(13:27):
witness to on the news where the police came back
and uh, you know, we got video and we got images,
you know, outside of the home. And it's one thing
to sit behind the mic and kind of pontificate about
cases and places you've never been. I think a lot
about Idaho, for instance, and I think about a lot
(13:49):
of these cases that we comment on. But when you're
you're there and you kind of put on your investigator's
hat just for a moment, and you begin to appreciate
special relationships, linear distances between the dump site and the home.
It puts it in a whole new perspective. And Dave,
I got to tell you the fact that what we
(14:11):
believe we know now went on in this neat kind
of leave it to Beaver neighborhood. It's the thing of nightmares.
(14:42):
There have been many times throughout my life. I think
a lot of it has to do with my kind
of cracked lens that I view the world through as
a result of the job that I did for so
many years. I don't necessarily see nice things everywhere I go.
I always think about what darkness is held behind certain walls.
(15:04):
You know, you go through a neighborhood and maybe it
evokes some memory that I have of cases that I've
worked that appear very similar, and you know that there's
darkness in certain locations. And I'm not a big fan
of the word haunted, However, I think that there is
kind of a presence of evil sometimes maybe haunted of locations.
(15:30):
And it's not necessarily as the location is haunted. It's
the individuals that occupy that space. And Dave, when I
think about this house that the human family lived and
lives in and what secrets are there, and then I
couple that with this wildly beautiful shoreline that they have,
(15:54):
because it is it's different than what we have down
here or along the Gulf, but it's wind swept, it
has it's it's not too different in my estimation from
uh from and you described this in great detail to me,
the area that you you occupied, that you would go
to as a younger man, with the outer banks. It's
(16:17):
kind of got that that feel to it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know, we have an area between the ocean and
there's islands and things that run parallel where you end
up having an area that's brackish water called the Sound,
and then you have the ocean. And that's what we
have here in a lot of marshal areas where there's
a lot of brackish water to contend with. And the
area where the bodies were found at Gilgo. Now I'm
(16:43):
fascinated that you when you were headed to the who
done it? That it did right right by here And
oftentimes when we think about well, I hate calling it
a dump site, Joe, that just is so that's vernacular.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
You go ahead and run with that. There's no shame
in that.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Area where you know, I believe more than one person
has used this area. Only my mind can't wrap it
around one person doing all the damage and creating all
the carnage. But you drove by it, and I'm thinking
as you were riding by, and people drive by this
area every day and don't know this is where something
(17:21):
horrific happened to another human being. They're end they were
already dead when they got here, and this person dumped
them here, just hiding them to get away with it.
And yet we drive I wonder how many times we
drive by something every day where something horrific took place
(17:41):
in that space. And I think about the families, and
I think about those who have loved ones that have
been missing, and they wonder where they are and they've
been here all that time. And I wonder, Okay, what
it's like for people who knew somebody that they found
part of her in one area, but not all of
her body parts, and then they find another part years
(18:03):
later in a different area. I'm thinking, what kind of
person does that?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's a and that's very difficult to take the measure
of it, I think. And here's the thing a lot
of these locations are. What I saw, particularly with the
Gilgo area, is that when you're kind of cruising along
the stretch of roadway and it's a four lane, so
you have a median, and then you have two lanes
(18:35):
that are closer to the beach, and then you have
the other two that are on kind of the marshy
swampy sound side if you will, And it varies, you know,
the topography will change periodically, Dave. The thing about it
is is that there's no cover really to conceal yourself.
And here's another interesting point that every local up there
had told me in our recent trip up there. We
(19:00):
arrived in April, it's still cold. I mean, Kim and
I were walking around with like sweaters on and you know,
light jackets and that sort of thing. It's still it's chili, brother,
And they said, we're like two weeks away from the
first onslaught of tourists that show up in this location.
These arteries up there, if you will. The roadways they
(19:25):
talk about them getting clocked. It takes hours and hours
sometimes to get to specific destinations. And here's kind of
do you know that several of these cases that the
police are putting forward from an investigative standpoint, and again
these are only approximations. Some of these would have occurred
(19:46):
during the height of the vacation season up there. You
look at Bartholemey where the police are putting out a
number of June tenth, two thousand and nine, Well, that's
people on vacation. Megan Waterman June sixth, twenty ten, September
second for Amber Costello. That's a pre Labor Day, brother,
(20:08):
and so you're still going to have people around that area. Oh,
let's don't forget Marine Brainerd Barnes. That's in the heart
of summer this July ninth. So how bold do you
have to be? I think is a is a grand
question here. How sure of yourself and sophisticated are you
as a perpetrator that you would be willing to venture
(20:28):
out because there's no cover like you if you're in
a truck like he's driving, and you pull this thing
over in the side the road, people are going to
notice you because they have the same kind of and
I think that probably it has changed over the years.
It's not necessarily the same as it used to be.
This is a very tight space though. You have to
be so familiar with it, and you have to be
(20:49):
able to time traffic as well. And when you drive
this route, which we were able to drive that my
buddy thinks may have been the route that he took.
It's kind of a gig.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Okay when you say his route, his right from his
house to.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Guilty Yeah, yeah, And then you take a boat. Well,
he would not have had to, particularly when it comes
to the Gooka four, because he would have immediate access,
you know, on the shoulder of the road. But again
it's a big risk. I think egestion.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
That maybe he opped in a boat and went there
at night.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, I know. And I and looking out over that sound,
I'm not saying. You know, I'm familiar with the waterways
down in South Louisiana near my family's home, down their homes,
and that's treacherous at night because you've got if you
don't know the marshes, if you don't know that you're
going to get beached somewhere, you're going to run aground.
(21:43):
You have to think about, well, where you're going to
launch from, and then are you skilled enough to make
your way through these areas? And I think it leaves.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So different at night on the water.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
It does.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know, during the day you kind of see market.
It's difficult to judge distance the night. I can't imagine
because I was always told unless there's an emergency, you
have no business going out there. Yeah, I mean as
a recreational person, you know, yeah, yeah, And I that's
why I was looking at it I'm just kind of curious,
(22:16):
so I didn't realize that you were right there. I
don't I miss that. Yeah, it's a weird.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
It's kind of a weird space because you've got this
kind of gridded off if you go to the north
of the sound, it's laid out very logically from town
to town. You've got for lack of a better uh,
for lack of a better term, and directions are not absolute.
But when you think about kind of north south avenues
(22:44):
and east west streets, if you if you want to
organize it in your brain like that, it's there's grids
up there. When you get down near the beach, you know,
you kind of follow the rattling home of what the
shore is dictating right, and you'll come across bridges, you'll
come across uh locations where the road just comes to
the right, and so you have to know the space
(23:06):
and how much more so when you have the added uh,
this added factor of transporting not just deceased individuals, but
dismembered individuals. And you're thinking, and when you look at
this document that the police have put forward UD regarding
(23:27):
these new charges Dave Uh, you begin to think about
Huerman has obviously gone to great pains. He's he's very
analytical relative to this, and like you said, he's by trade.
Let's face it, he's an architect, but he's kind of
he has that engineering mindset that everything has a very uh,
(23:54):
it's very ordered, and he knew he knew it would
seem that the slightest little stake that he could make
would get him caught. The only thing is is that
he started butchering these women in a time before our
DNA technology became as robust as it is now. You see,
(24:21):
he maybe didn't count on the fact that he wasn't
going to be fighting or resisting the blue lights that
might pull him over. You see, his downfall potentially could
be in the hands of those that wear white lab
(24:42):
coats and that sit inside of forensic laboratories. Human made
(25:05):
disappearance in court and oh my gosh, the document that
came along with the saying I started reading through it
and I knew I didn't know if you had had it,
because I'm sure you're spinning up stuff for Nancy and
all these other things that you're involved in. I was saying,
I got to get this in his hand. And so
that's why you know, I shot this document off to
you at that particular time.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Well, you know, Joe, it answered one of the most
well we've had the GILG for since the very beginning,
and they were labeled the go go for even though
Heureman was only charged at the time with three murders.
It was the fourth one was added later. But we
as people who have reported on this particular crime plural,
(25:47):
we have wondered when are we going to tie some
of this together? Because there was in fact a woman
who got added to this yesterday and or recently. I mean,
the investigators have had this for a long time, but
what they put forward in the warrant arrest warrant lays
(26:09):
out everything they have that they're willing to share, that
they have to share because a judge has to determine
do they have enough to move forward with this case
and what they're planning on doing. And when you get
to the disappearance of Jessica Taylor and the recovery of
her remains, you find out that she is the tie
(26:31):
between Manorville and Gilgo. When the police filed this document yesterday,
they knew full on what was going to happen, that
this is going to be a headline for a while.
Now we knew there was different dump sites along the way,
(26:51):
body parts and things found, but Jessica Taylor being tied
directly directs Huerman and Jel. I'm very curious about what
has actually physically tied you. Not talking cell phones, I'm
not talking about GPS locations. I'm talking about biological evidence
tying Rex Huerman to Jessica Taylor because we have part
(27:17):
of her found in one location and part of her
found in another, separated by many years. I'm thinking about
the compounded grief on her family, Joe, when they find
out that she's gone from missing to dead, and then
years later they find out the rest of the story.
(27:37):
As Paul Harvey used to say, I just think of
how her family had to have just been crushed.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, and you're talking about somebody that has greatly objectified
and people throw that term around, you know when it
comes to you know, scanily clad women and you know,
sexual things like that save it. You know, this is
true objectification here. You're talking about somebody that has the
(28:09):
ability to dehumanize a fellow human to the point where
they refer to them as things to be played with.
That's probably the most disgusting element of this. And there's
so much to choose from here. But as you know,
you had mentioned Jessica Taylor, you know, you begin to
(28:31):
think about connectivity, which we're always looking for in investigations.
I think that probably with her, it's going to be
biological sample relative to hair dave that's going to tie
her back. And the beauty of hair is that obviously
it's a bit more difficult to tease out DNA from it.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Is that because the hair in and of itself is
not if it does to have the root, yes, it
doesn't have what you need correct.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, and a lot of I think, you know, we
and we talked about this quite a bit, but you know,
we shed hair every day. You know, we're you know,
all of us do. You're gonna lose hair, and so
you're going to leave behind the strands. But yeah, you're
gonna look at something, you know, like possibly mitochondrial DNA
(29:25):
if you've got a broken hair shaft, and it doesn't
necessarily mean that the hair shaft has been or the
hair has been broken off, so that it's like in
an event where it's being pulled out, you know, being
pulled out, you might have a better chance of finding
a root which you can get nuclear DNA out of.
And just to make it very simple, the shaft hair,
(29:48):
the fractured shaft is a bit more difficult to tease
it out, but it's certainly better than nothing right right,
and when you have a specific identifier that you can
tie back, so the hairs. And it's pretty obvious to
me that they're focusing at a microscopic level on collection
(30:11):
of hair and fiber evidence in this case, because it's
one of the things that they're going to have to
fall back on. Is quite it's quite powerful because you
get an insight Dave into the investigation itself.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
He ask you something. Yeah, I hate dinner rup, but
I'm no okay with Jessica. Let's just take Jessica Taylor
for a minute. She was one of two new victims
that has been attributed to Rex Huerman. We're talking about her.
Torso found on July twenty sixth, two thousand and three
(30:49):
in Manorville. She's actually found on Halsey Manor Road in Manerville.
I looked this up earlier because I wanted to see
on a map the distance between Manorville and Guilgo and
you're talking about forty five minutes, forty five miles between Manorville,
where Jessica Taylor's torso is found, and Gilgo where her skull,
(31:11):
hands and forearm are discovered. Now there was nine years,
but eight years between the discovery of her torso and
Manorville in two thousand and three and her skull hands
found at Gilgo in twenty eleven. Joe the obvious. She
(31:38):
was decapitated, her arms severed below the elbows, and there
was a tattoo on her torso that was obliterated with
a sharp object, is what it says. And these are
all ways of preventing her identification.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Correct, Yeah, it is and that Okay, you can look
at this in a couple of different ways. So you
can look at it in the long term, and you
can look at the short term. The excision, if you will,
of a tattoo from an individual's body is a short
(32:16):
term answer to trying to prevent someone from being identified.
You know, you look at it from well, we're going
to immediately remove this item that's in soft tissue. He
has to have an understanding of the degrading of human
remains and kind of at least an elemental understanding of decomposition.
(32:43):
So if you make an effort to take an edged
instrument and literally carve out this piece of flesh, which
is what you're going to have to do, because the
the tattoos will go down to the dermal level in
the body, all right, where this you know, this ink
(33:05):
is being you know, essentially placed into the skin.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Hey, Joe, assume I miss those days in biology class.
How deep is the dermal level?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Well, you can go down probably, Let's see, you can
be within the dermist before you get to the SubQ fat.
And he's not going to have a sense of that.
And when I say, just think of a layer. So
you've got epidermis, which is that top layer we get
sunburned skin peels. That's your epidermis, Okay, dry skin epidermis,
(33:36):
all right, and then you have the dermis, which is
below that level. So the epidermis acts is almost like
a protective shield over the dermis. Then you go down
below the dermis and you get into what's called SubQ fat.
A matter of fact, SubQ fat. When they say, uh,
(33:57):
we're going to give you a sub q injection in
a medical sense, that means that they're not going into
a vessel. They're going into your subc fat into you know,
if you're getting inoculated, they're going into your subc fat
with that needle, all right, So they're not seeking out
a vessel, so that SUBC fat. If you don't somebody
(34:21):
that's in my line of work, that has worked in
the morgue, it would be very easy for us to
accomplish these tasks. We have to accomplish them when we're
looking for particular types of evidence, when we're doing a
dissection of the more. I don't know that he has
that level of skill. So there's a chance that he
(34:43):
could have gone down into into the subc fat and
essentially removed that plug of tissue. And again we don't
really know the dimensions of the tattoo. I think that's
important to try to understand. But here's the other thing
that's very interesting about this. When her body, when they
(35:06):
annotated this, when the exam was being conducted, there would
still have to be enough soft tissue for the forensic
pathologists to say, oh, this is not as a result
of decomposition, this is as a result of an excision. Okay,
that's you're not talking about skeletonized remains at this at
(35:29):
this point because in order to assess that, you can't
assess that on bone, Dave, So you have to look
at soft tissue. If you've got a chunk of missing tissue,
that gives you an indication that the individual is trying
to do something. And I've had I've had cases day
where people have clipped off fingertips right, uh, not teeth
(35:50):
out all of these other you know, kind of very
superficial things, you know that that are typically done. But
what does this really say? Oh, what it says is
that first off, he would have to have tools, and
he's going to have to have a place to do this,
(36:11):
and that brings us back to his house.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
But now we've got Rex Hereman linked to two more people,
and there will probably be others because mentioning before Joe,
you'll go beach doesn't end with four. And we just
proved that again with Jessica Taylor and uh and and
I wonder how many more.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I don't know that remains to be seen, But when
the final toll is taken here, I think it's going
to be potentially a number that is going to be
quite shocking. We'll see how how far this goes, and
how deep they're going to go down this rabbit hole
(36:56):
with youreman, and how many more victims they can link
to him. From an investigative perspective, we'll see what their
evidence is like, how robust is it. Are they going
to be able to have biological tie acts, which of
course is going to be the key here. But we
will continue to watch the developments out of Long Island.
(37:23):
There will be more, and we have to remember these
women whose lives were just torn to shreds and their
families as well. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
Bodybacks
Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I felt compelled to
sit down in the chair today with you, guys. I
gotta tell you, I'm I have to talk about these
(00:30):
latest developments with the so called Gilgo Beach murders. This
is in the wake of this recent charging document. Let
us come up, let's have a brief moment here, and
I'm going to rattle off some names to you. Rex
(00:51):
Huerman has been charged with the first screen murder of
Melissa Bartholemy, the first murder of Megan Waterman, the first
degree murder of Emperor Costello, and the second agree murder
(01:11):
of Maureen Brainerd Barnes. Unfortunately, the list has grown, so
as of this recording we must add the second degree
murder of Jessica Taylor and the second degree murder of
(01:33):
Sandra Castilla. We always have to remember the victims. I'm
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags, Dave. This
is a very sad day. It is a day where
(01:57):
this ghoulish list has grown by two at this point
in time. I don't think I can't speak for you,
my friend, but I mean I don't. I didn't know
what to expect. I had a lot of people knew,
with media organizations reaching out to let me know that
this was happening. This was days and days back. And
(02:20):
of course I've got a lot of friends that spend
in the podcasting world that spend a tremendous amount of
time on the Gilgo cases.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, good grief, Joe, this has been covered for years.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, it had done it.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
You know, we've done it here. You and I have
both been on with other shows covering this case. There
have been documentaries over the years. There have been so
many different angles on this that when Rex Huerman was arrested,
he wasn't somebody that was in my line of fire
(02:57):
in terms of what we had looked at previously. I mean,
we've this case has been looked at from every angle,
including police involvement in the murders. And I think back
to the different programs where different people said different theories,
and they would a lot of times people will get
so invested in a theory that they present it as
(03:17):
a fact, and you have to remind yourself they're no
different than you and me. They're not in the investigation.
They're merely looking out on the outside end and they
think X, Y Z. But we already had the GUILDG four.
Those were the first ones, and in reality they were
labeled the guil Go for even though there were only
three that he'd been charged with. The fourth one came later,
(03:39):
but there was that presumption that he was that guy.
But you and I both pointed out there are more
than just four bodies here. We're dealing with maybe more
than one serial killer, for crying out loud, and one
of the things that came up was Manerville. It's a
bit of a drive away from Gilgo, and yet there
(04:03):
was a connection there because torso of a victim was
found at Manorville, O their body parts found at Guilgo.
And immediately it was, oh, my goodness, Joe, are we
dealing with more than one person working together to kill
these people? I mean, what are we really dealing with?
And now looking at this new information from investigators, it
(04:31):
actually helps tie a few things together because I really
wondered how, you know, some things were fitting in And
as we look at this today, adding to the list
of the original Gilgo for the two people that have
been added Jessica Taylor and Sandra Cristia. And Jessica Taylor
was that person that ties Rex Huerman to Manorville.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Manorville, Yes, and gilgo.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So now we have that connection and it's not two
separate people. This person rack sureman, boy, I know he's
a human being.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I know, I know where you're going, where you going,
what he has done, I know. It's it's it's hard
to take the measure of it.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
You've seen so many things over the years, Joe, and
I'm having to think that if you were to walk
in this dude's, this person's basement and realize this is
a torture slash death chamber, it would still give you
a he be GBI's wouldn't it?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah? Yeah, I would. I mean if if I had
the knowledge of what had gone on. It's weird when
you're an investigator, you try to I think there's part
of you tries to galvanize your mind against you know,
this your humanity. If you all know that sounds very
you know, but that's one of the things you have
to do to function that environment. And we've got police
(05:54):
officers and investigators that have made multiple trips out there,
and isn't that a fascinating thing to consider? Knowing what
they know? Because as you well stated, just a few
moments ago. There is nobody and I mean nobody that's
outside of this investigated bubble that knows everything. And we
(06:16):
should not know everything, because right now we are in
the midst of a game of chess, if you will,
and we're spectators, all right, and that really needs to
seep down into everybody's brain. Here we are merely spectators
of what's kind of transpiring before us. You've got prosecutors
(06:38):
from the county and then you have Huerman's defense team.
Now in light of what the state released yesterday with
this document, and Dave a gout to tell you, brother,
I don't remember a document like this in recent memory
that details what's a graphic nature of kind of what
(07:02):
was going on behind the eyes allegedly with this person,
the accused. It is a matter of trying to understand
this analytically without getting caught up in the emotion of
it if you're an investigator prosecutor moving forward point by point,
and there are a lot of points here, because the
(07:24):
data alone, just from a forensic standpoint day is so dense.
All of these various considerations, everything from electronic forensics to
certainly all of the biological elements of evidence being collected,
we've got hair, I don't know that we have blood.
And then we have all of the medical legal considerations
(07:46):
as well with these bodies who, let's face it, they've
been severely abused, allegedly abused before death and the animal state,
but my gosh, certainly abused and desecrated in a post
(08:06):
mortem state. So you've got all of those factors working
in and we haven't even talked about the actual you know,
circumstantial stuff that's out there and the investigator of the
shoe leather kind of stuff where you're going to knocking
on doors and interviewing people. This is merely which is
where we kind of dance. This is merely the forensic stuff.
And this stuff is so dense, and every for every
(08:29):
case that is added, those are more data points along
the way, and it begins to increase exponentially.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I thought it was fascinating when they referred to some
of the documentation that we're going to get into as
a blueprint for a serial killer or blueprint for murder,
because we are dealing with a person who is an
architect by trade and training, and the way that he
allegedly went about his business of killing and note taking
and it's not happenstance. It's pre planned, pre thought out
(09:01):
and beyond. And in these notes, rex Huerman allegedly acknowledges
next time. That's frightening Joe for the man to make
notes and say next time, which means he had no
plan on stopping. And I'm very curious if rex Huerman
(09:21):
between the years that he stopped that Gilgo stopped collecting
people or dead bodies, if rex Human found another dumpset
and continued, are we going to find another area that
rex Huerman? Because I just don't see him stopping all
of a sudden out of the thin air ten years ago.
(09:42):
He just decides, Okay, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, I don't. It would be very hard to convince
myself of that. And let's take this from another perspective.
He's obviously targeting women that are living on the front.
Just many of them are are associated with escort services.
(10:07):
And yeah, exactly. And you know, in my kind of
southern rural mind, it's very difficult. It was difficult for
me to appreciate how vast this population that he could
select from.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Is.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
You know, when you flyd in New York, you've never
been to New York there's population density, and then there's
population density. You begin to see how vast this area
is and how many people occupied this very small space,
and it is a predator's playground. And isn't that interesting
Because in the document that we're going to talk about,
(10:45):
the word hunting is used, I believe, and he uses
the term playtime. And these are some of the most
ghastly things that any human being could participate in. What
we're hearing and is being alleged by the prosecutor here
(11:05):
is accurate. And one more thing, in all honesty, I
had never been to Long Island in my life. I'd
always heard about it. I have many friends that are
from Long Island, and this past April I had the
opportunity to be a guest and speak at the Hampton's
(11:30):
what's referred to as the Hampton's Who'd Done It. It's
a true crime thing that takes place up on up
on Long Island, and they generously flew Kim and I
in and we got to spend the weekend there talking
about cases. But while I was there, we were taken
too not only go go beach, because you have to
(11:50):
drive right by it en route to East Hampton, did you.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Know that ahead of time or was that kind of Hey,
we're on the way and this is where they're now.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
My buddy that was taking us up there, he said,
And my buddy that did this is that was so
kind to to chauffeur Kim and I from La Guardia
all the way up there, which it's about a two
and a half hour drive.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Okay, we're not talking about something. It's just down the
street next Monting.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
This is, this is, this is robust. I mean the
miles and the time. The time is a big thing up.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So he was telling you ahead of time, Hey, we're
in a drive right by here.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, my buddy is a retired NYPD cold case investigator.
And so not only did he take us to Gilgo Dave,
but he also took us to Huerman's home and we
you do trick or treat. No, I was not, And
it actually it was kind of chilling because the place itself,
(12:45):
when you're outside of it, you understand that it's first off,
it's a dump and it's a d surrounding homes right,
oh my gosh. Yeah, and these are not mansions, okay,
but they're very very expensive because it's long island and
you're more proximal to the city than you are, say,
out toward Montac and all of that area. You know,
(13:06):
when you begin to consider this neighborhood, this little town
where where you know, this family hangs their hat and
there was a car in the driveway, all these sorts
of things. So this pre this predates by you know,
a month or so, this new visitation that we bore
(13:27):
witness to on the news where the police came back
and uh, you know, we got video and we got images,
you know, outside of the home. And it's one thing
to sit behind the mic and kind of pontificate about
cases and places you've never been. I think a lot
about Idaho, for instance, and I think about a lot
(13:49):
of these cases that we comment on. But when you're
you're there and you kind of put on your investigator's
hat just for a moment, and you begin to appreciate
special relationships, linear distances between the dump site and the home.
It puts it in a whole new perspective. And Dave,
I got to tell you the fact that what we
(14:11):
believe we know now went on in this neat kind
of leave it to Beaver neighborhood. It's the thing of nightmares.
(14:42):
There have been many times throughout my life. I think
a lot of it has to do with my kind
of cracked lens that I view the world through as
a result of the job that I did for so
many years. I don't necessarily see nice things everywhere I go.
I always think about what darkness is held behind certain walls.
(15:04):
You know, you go through a neighborhood and maybe it
evokes some memory that I have of cases that I've
worked that appear very similar, and you know that there's
darkness in certain locations. And I'm not a big fan
of the word haunted, However, I think that there is
kind of a presence of evil sometimes maybe haunted of locations.
(15:30):
And it's not necessarily as the location is haunted. It's
the individuals that occupy that space. And Dave, when I
think about this house that the human family lived and
lives in and what secrets are there, and then I
couple that with this wildly beautiful shoreline that they have,
(15:54):
because it is it's different than what we have down
here or along the Gulf, but it's wind swept, it
has it's it's not too different in my estimation from
uh from and you described this in great detail to me,
the area that you you occupied, that you would go
to as a younger man, with the outer banks. It's
(16:17):
kind of got that that feel to it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You know, we have an area between the ocean and
there's islands and things that run parallel where you end
up having an area that's brackish water called the Sound,
and then you have the ocean. And that's what we
have here in a lot of marshal areas where there's
a lot of brackish water to contend with. And the
area where the bodies were found at Gilgo. Now I'm
(16:43):
fascinated that you when you were headed to the who
done it? That it did right right by here And
oftentimes when we think about well, I hate calling it
a dump site, Joe, that just is so that's vernacular.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
You go ahead and run with that. There's no shame
in that.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Area where you know, I believe more than one person
has used this area. Only my mind can't wrap it
around one person doing all the damage and creating all
the carnage. But you drove by it, and I'm thinking
as you were riding by, and people drive by this
area every day and don't know this is where something
(17:21):
horrific happened to another human being. They're end they were
already dead when they got here, and this person dumped
them here, just hiding them to get away with it.
And yet we drive I wonder how many times we
drive by something every day where something horrific took place
(17:41):
in that space. And I think about the families, and
I think about those who have loved ones that have
been missing, and they wonder where they are and they've
been here all that time. And I wonder, Okay, what
it's like for people who knew somebody that they found
part of her in one area, but not all of
her body parts, and then they find another part years
(18:03):
later in a different area. I'm thinking, what kind of
person does that?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
It's a and that's very difficult to take the measure
of it, I think. And here's the thing a lot
of these locations are. What I saw, particularly with the
Gilgo area, is that when you're kind of cruising along
the stretch of roadway and it's a four lane, so
you have a median, and then you have two lanes
(18:35):
that are closer to the beach, and then you have
the other two that are on kind of the marshy
swampy sound side if you will, And it varies, you know,
the topography will change periodically, Dave. The thing about it
is is that there's no cover really to conceal yourself.
And here's another interesting point that every local up there
had told me in our recent trip up there. We
(19:00):
arrived in April, it's still cold. I mean, Kim and
I were walking around with like sweaters on and you know,
light jackets and that sort of thing. It's still it's chili, brother,
And they said, we're like two weeks away from the
first onslaught of tourists that show up in this location.
These arteries up there, if you will. The roadways they
(19:25):
talk about them getting clocked. It takes hours and hours
sometimes to get to specific destinations. And here's kind of
do you know that several of these cases that the
police are putting forward from an investigative standpoint, and again
these are only approximations. Some of these would have occurred
(19:46):
during the height of the vacation season up there. You
look at Bartholemey where the police are putting out a
number of June tenth, two thousand and nine, Well, that's
people on vacation. Megan Waterman June sixth, twenty ten, September
second for Amber Costello. That's a pre Labor Day, brother,
(20:08):
and so you're still going to have people around that area. Oh,
let's don't forget Marine Brainerd Barnes. That's in the heart
of summer this July ninth. So how bold do you
have to be? I think is a is a grand
question here. How sure of yourself and sophisticated are you
as a perpetrator that you would be willing to venture
(20:28):
out because there's no cover like you if you're in
a truck like he's driving, and you pull this thing
over in the side the road, people are going to
notice you because they have the same kind of and
I think that probably it has changed over the years.
It's not necessarily the same as it used to be.
This is a very tight space though. You have to
be so familiar with it, and you have to be
(20:49):
able to time traffic as well. And when you drive
this route, which we were able to drive that my
buddy thinks may have been the route that he took.
It's kind of a gig.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Okay when you say his route, his right from his
house to.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Guilty Yeah, yeah, And then you take a boat. Well,
he would not have had to, particularly when it comes
to the Gooka four, because he would have immediate access,
you know, on the shoulder of the road. But again
it's a big risk. I think egestion.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
That maybe he opped in a boat and went there
at night.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, I know. And I and looking out over that sound,
I'm not saying. You know, I'm familiar with the waterways
down in South Louisiana near my family's home, down their homes,
and that's treacherous at night because you've got if you
don't know the marshes, if you don't know that you're
going to get beached somewhere, you're going to run aground.
(21:43):
You have to think about, well, where you're going to
launch from, and then are you skilled enough to make
your way through these areas? And I think it leaves.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So different at night on the water.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
It does.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know, during the day you kind of see market.
It's difficult to judge distance the night. I can't imagine
because I was always told unless there's an emergency, you
have no business going out there. Yeah, I mean as
a recreational person, you know, yeah, yeah, And I that's
why I was looking at it I'm just kind of curious,
(22:16):
so I didn't realize that you were right there. I
don't I miss that. Yeah, it's a weird.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
It's kind of a weird space because you've got this
kind of gridded off if you go to the north
of the sound, it's laid out very logically from town
to town. You've got for lack of a better uh,
for lack of a better term, and directions are not absolute.
But when you think about kind of north south avenues
(22:44):
and east west streets, if you if you want to
organize it in your brain like that, it's there's grids
up there. When you get down near the beach, you know,
you kind of follow the rattling home of what the
shore is dictating right, and you'll come across bridges, you'll
come across uh locations where the road just comes to
the right, and so you have to know the space
(23:06):
and how much more so when you have the added uh,
this added factor of transporting not just deceased individuals, but
dismembered individuals. And you're thinking, and when you look at
this document that the police have put forward UD regarding
(23:27):
these new charges Dave Uh, you begin to think about
Huerman has obviously gone to great pains. He's he's very
analytical relative to this, and like you said, he's by trade.
Let's face it, he's an architect, but he's kind of
he has that engineering mindset that everything has a very uh,
(23:54):
it's very ordered, and he knew he knew it would
seem that the slightest little stake that he could make
would get him caught. The only thing is is that
he started butchering these women in a time before our
DNA technology became as robust as it is now. You see,
(24:21):
he maybe didn't count on the fact that he wasn't
going to be fighting or resisting the blue lights that
might pull him over. You see, his downfall potentially could
be in the hands of those that wear white lab
(24:42):
coats and that sit inside of forensic laboratories. Human made
(25:05):
disappearance in court and oh my gosh, the document that
came along with the saying I started reading through it
and I knew I didn't know if you had had it,
because I'm sure you're spinning up stuff for Nancy and
all these other things that you're involved in. I was saying,
I got to get this in his hand. And so
that's why you know, I shot this document off to
you at that particular time.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Well, you know, Joe, it answered one of the most
well we've had the GILG for since the very beginning,
and they were labeled the go go for even though
Heureman was only charged at the time with three murders.
It was the fourth one was added later. But we
as people who have reported on this particular crime plural,
(25:47):
we have wondered when are we going to tie some
of this together? Because there was in fact a woman
who got added to this yesterday and or recently. I mean,
the investigators have had this for a long time, but
what they put forward in the warrant arrest warrant lays
(26:09):
out everything they have that they're willing to share, that
they have to share because a judge has to determine
do they have enough to move forward with this case
and what they're planning on doing. And when you get
to the disappearance of Jessica Taylor and the recovery of
her remains, you find out that she is the tie
(26:31):
between Manorville and Gilgo. When the police filed this document yesterday,
they knew full on what was going to happen, that
this is going to be a headline for a while.
Now we knew there was different dump sites along the way,
(26:51):
body parts and things found, but Jessica Taylor being tied
directly directs Huerman and Jel. I'm very curious about what
has actually physically tied you. Not talking cell phones, I'm
not talking about GPS locations. I'm talking about biological evidence
tying Rex Huerman to Jessica Taylor because we have part
(27:17):
of her found in one location and part of her
found in another, separated by many years. I'm thinking about
the compounded grief on her family, Joe, when they find
out that she's gone from missing to dead, and then
years later they find out the rest of the story.
(27:37):
As Paul Harvey used to say, I just think of
how her family had to have just been crushed.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, and you're talking about somebody that has greatly objectified
and people throw that term around, you know when it
comes to you know, scanily clad women and you know,
sexual things like that save it. You know, this is
true objectification here. You're talking about somebody that has the
(28:09):
ability to dehumanize a fellow human to the point where
they refer to them as things to be played with.
That's probably the most disgusting element of this. And there's
so much to choose from here. But as you know,
you had mentioned Jessica Taylor, you know, you begin to
(28:31):
think about connectivity, which we're always looking for in investigations.
I think that probably with her, it's going to be
biological sample relative to hair dave that's going to tie
her back. And the beauty of hair is that obviously
it's a bit more difficult to tease out DNA from it.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Is that because the hair in and of itself is
not if it does to have the root, yes, it
doesn't have what you need correct.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, and a lot of I think, you know, we
and we talked about this quite a bit, but you know,
we shed hair every day. You know, we're you know,
all of us do. You're gonna lose hair, and so
you're going to leave behind the strands. But yeah, you're
gonna look at something, you know, like possibly mitochondrial DNA
(29:25):
if you've got a broken hair shaft, and it doesn't
necessarily mean that the hair shaft has been or the
hair has been broken off, so that it's like in
an event where it's being pulled out, you know, being
pulled out, you might have a better chance of finding
a root which you can get nuclear DNA out of.
And just to make it very simple, the shaft hair,
(29:48):
the fractured shaft is a bit more difficult to tease
it out, but it's certainly better than nothing right right,
and when you have a specific identifier that you can
tie back, so the hairs. And it's pretty obvious to
me that they're focusing at a microscopic level on collection
(30:11):
of hair and fiber evidence in this case, because it's
one of the things that they're going to have to
fall back on. Is quite it's quite powerful because you
get an insight Dave into the investigation itself.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
He ask you something. Yeah, I hate dinner rup, but
I'm no okay with Jessica. Let's just take Jessica Taylor
for a minute. She was one of two new victims
that has been attributed to Rex Huerman. We're talking about her.
Torso found on July twenty sixth, two thousand and three
(30:49):
in Manorville. She's actually found on Halsey Manor Road in Manerville.
I looked this up earlier because I wanted to see
on a map the distance between Manorville and Guilgo and
you're talking about forty five minutes, forty five miles between Manorville,
where Jessica Taylor's torso is found, and Gilgo where her skull,
(31:11):
hands and forearm are discovered. Now there was nine years,
but eight years between the discovery of her torso and
Manorville in two thousand and three and her skull hands
found at Gilgo in twenty eleven. Joe the obvious. She
(31:38):
was decapitated, her arms severed below the elbows, and there
was a tattoo on her torso that was obliterated with
a sharp object, is what it says. And these are
all ways of preventing her identification.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Correct, Yeah, it is and that Okay, you can look
at this in a couple of different ways. So you
can look at it in the long term, and you
can look at the short term. The excision, if you will,
of a tattoo from an individual's body is a short
(32:16):
term answer to trying to prevent someone from being identified.
You know, you look at it from well, we're going
to immediately remove this item that's in soft tissue. He
has to have an understanding of the degrading of human
remains and kind of at least an elemental understanding of decomposition.
(32:43):
So if you make an effort to take an edged
instrument and literally carve out this piece of flesh, which
is what you're going to have to do, because the
the tattoos will go down to the dermal level in
the body, all right, where this you know, this ink
(33:05):
is being you know, essentially placed into the skin.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Hey, Joe, assume I miss those days in biology class.
How deep is the dermal level?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Well, you can go down probably, Let's see, you can
be within the dermist before you get to the SubQ fat.
And he's not going to have a sense of that.
And when I say, just think of a layer. So
you've got epidermis, which is that top layer we get
sunburned skin peels. That's your epidermis, Okay, dry skin epidermis,
(33:36):
all right, and then you have the dermis, which is
below that level. So the epidermis acts is almost like
a protective shield over the dermis. Then you go down
below the dermis and you get into what's called SubQ fat.
A matter of fact, SubQ fat. When they say, uh,
(33:57):
we're going to give you a sub q injection in
a medical sense, that means that they're not going into
a vessel. They're going into your subc fat into you know,
if you're getting inoculated, they're going into your subc fat
with that needle, all right, So they're not seeking out
a vessel, so that SUBC fat. If you don't somebody
(34:21):
that's in my line of work, that has worked in
the morgue, it would be very easy for us to
accomplish these tasks. We have to accomplish them when we're
looking for particular types of evidence, when we're doing a
dissection of the more. I don't know that he has
that level of skill. So there's a chance that he
(34:43):
could have gone down into into the subc fat and
essentially removed that plug of tissue. And again we don't
really know the dimensions of the tattoo. I think that's
important to try to understand. But here's the other thing
that's very interesting about this. When her body, when they
(35:06):
annotated this, when the exam was being conducted, there would
still have to be enough soft tissue for the forensic
pathologists to say, oh, this is not as a result
of decomposition, this is as a result of an excision. Okay,
that's you're not talking about skeletonized remains at this at
(35:29):
this point because in order to assess that, you can't
assess that on bone, Dave, So you have to look
at soft tissue. If you've got a chunk of missing tissue,
that gives you an indication that the individual is trying
to do something. And I've had I've had cases day
where people have clipped off fingertips right, uh, not teeth
(35:50):
out all of these other you know, kind of very
superficial things, you know that that are typically done. But
what does this really say? Oh, what it says is
that first off, he would have to have tools, and
he's going to have to have a place to do this,
(36:11):
and that brings us back to his house.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
But now we've got Rex Hereman linked to two more people,
and there will probably be others because mentioning before Joe,
you'll go beach doesn't end with four. And we just
proved that again with Jessica Taylor and uh and and
I wonder how many more.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I don't know that remains to be seen, But when
the final toll is taken here, I think it's going
to be potentially a number that is going to be
quite shocking. We'll see how how far this goes, and
how deep they're going to go down this rabbit hole
(36:56):
with youreman, and how many more victims they can link
to him. From an investigative perspective, we'll see what their
evidence is like, how robust is it. Are they going
to be able to have biological tie acts, which of
course is going to be the key here. But we
will continue to watch the developments out of Long Island.
(37:23):
There will be more, and we have to remember these
women whose lives were just torn to shreds and their
families as well. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is
Bodybacks
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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