July 22, 2025 • 45 mins
In West Georgia, on the morning of February 20th, 2025, deputies with the Carroll County Sheriff's Office responded to the scene at 1531 Carolton Tyus Road. The 5-year-old daughter of James "Jamie" Brock and his wife, "Kristen Brock, discovered the bodies of her parents, both deceased, from apparent gunshot wounds. The 5-year-old told her sister, Sarah Grace Patrick, 16, and she called 911. Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discuss the scene of the crime and some of the "Red Flags" that began to fly in the days, weeks, and months that followed. The investigation of a double homicide in a small community in rural Georgia becomes an international affair with the teenage daughter/stepdaughter of the deceased begins asking for help on TikTok.
Transcript Highlights
00:00.32 Introduction - Babies
01:27.18 Teen accused of murder
05:18.49 Blended family
09:50.63 Evil visits everywhere
14:47.90 Did someone alter the scene?
20:13.45 Blood co-mingled
25:26.43 More than one weapon used?
29:56.79 Talk about son killing his family in his dad's dentist office
35:12.07 Sentencing meant to deterrent
40:02.92 Police mention possible future arrests
43:01.18 Brock's got really plugged into a church
45:03.87 conclusion
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Quality diamonds, but Joseph's gotten more. I can't help myself.
I love babies. I love them, I you know, I
like pulling babies, and particularly my own, uh you know,
my grand babies. Spent hours rocking them. But have you
(00:25):
ever seen a baby that you just can't seem to
get settled down? There's so much frustration and anger, it
would seem. I don't know if they're capable of anger.
I think they are, that you can see their face
turned red. I've often heard people say that if that
(00:47):
kind of rage and anger could be channeled into an
adult male, that they.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Could kill it. Do surprise me, But what if what
if a child does.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Get angry? What if in modern parlance, they become triggered.
I've come to hate that term.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
But what if that happens? What do they do.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
With that teenage anger? Today on Bodybags, we're going to
talk about one such teenager, an accused teenager, an accused teenager.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Who has allegedly.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Taken the life, our lives of her parents and altered
the lives of all of the others surrounding that family.
We're going to dig into the case of Sarah Grace Patrick.
(02:02):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs, Dave.
I got to tell you, I still see kids daily
that are angry. That is in college students, not every boy,
but you know, I see them, and I'll see them
(02:23):
direct anger at me or at my colleagues, and I'm thinking,
what have we done to be the target of this
kind of rage? Many times because it's just like they
just sometimes they'll just it'll be overwhelming, and I'm thinking,
We're not the source of this. This, this has got
a deeper route to it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I don't remember that happening when I was in college.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I didn't even I was so afraid of my professors.
I wouldn't even talk to them most of the time.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I never encourage me. I never want to.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
See an advisor the entire time I was in college.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Now, I thought that was a sign of weakness and
they'd end up using it against me.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Hey, you know what I got to tell you a
quick one about Kim. My wife got her undergraduate and
her graduate degree actually in the same town where this
case they were discussing. Is that she went to West
Georgia College. At college at the Times University now. And
Kim takes great pride in telling me that she kept
(03:24):
the little manual that they give you, you know, the
spiral manual they give you when you first arrive as
a as a freshman, And she said, I didn't need
anybody to tell me what I wanted to do. I
knew what I was going to major in. And she said,
I just went through and systematically checked each box. And
I kept that same thing, and she got her undergraduate
in three and a half years. They never missed a summer.
(03:46):
She just grinded it out. But now, you know, we
we have to handhold all the way through for most
you know, I'll have I'll still have kids that'll come
to me, you know, seniors and say I don't know
what I want to do. And that's understandable, I know,
but yeah, you get anger and frustration, and anger and
(04:09):
frustration directed at parents is something that has always existed.
I dealt with it. I'm sure that you dealt with it.
I'm sure that my kids have dealt with it and
continue to deal with it on a regular basis. But
when you have something, Dave that ends in a homicide
(04:29):
or a double homicide, it really doesn't give you pause,
doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
The one thing I told you when we start talking
about is Sarah Grace Patrick. She was sixteen at the
time February twentieth of this year, twenty twenty five. This
is an ongoing case where an arrest has just been made,
but there were several comments that have been made by
family members. Jamie Brock is a forty five year old
(04:56):
stepfather to Sarah Grace Patrick. Her mother, Kristen is forty
one biological mother. Jamie and Kristen have a child together,
little girl, five years old at the time. The reason
I bring that up is this is a yours mind
and oursh family. Jamie had some other children I know
(05:16):
of at least one son because he spoke out publicly
about some of the things being said, and so we
know this is a blended family, and we know that
Sarah Grace Patrick was living in the home with her
mother and stepfather and her half sister. I only identify
it that way because that is the realistic bloodline, and
(05:37):
it might have something to do with this. I don't know,
because this is a breaking story. But right now we
know that in the early morning hours of February twentieth,
a Thursday, that the parents were not up to get
everybody ready for work in school and whatever they do,
and their five year old daughter gets up read her mom,
(06:00):
you know, ready for the regular start of the day,
and mom and dad were still in bed. She goes
into their room, and we're not sure what she saw
or what she thinks she saw or what she knows
she saw. Five year olds are so different. We know
she's six now, but we do not know exactly what
(06:21):
she identified with what she saw. But she did go
and tell Sarah, get up. Mom and dad are in bed,
And it was Sarah grayce Patrick that picked up the
phone and called nine one one. In the call, we
know that there was a dispatch talking to the deputies
on their way saying, no, these are we do not
(06:43):
need to be worrying about CPR. These are dead people.
That was pretty much what was said. Yeah, that's the stage.
I guess it's about it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I'm thinking about the It's given me pause because I'm
thinking about the five year old right now, and I
had a kind of a flashback to a case that
cases that I've talked about here extensively on body Bags
and have covered on on a separate podcast called The
Pike didn't masker, and uh there was a child at
(07:15):
you know that that case involved four different scenes, and
there was a child that came to the door that
had found their deceased parents back in the back bedroom.
They'd been executed, and the child, it's it's amazing to
me what what kind of how how children perceived death,
(07:40):
And that child in that case came to the door
and said, Mommy and daddy are playing zombie, you know,
and you you know, you think about that, and you
think about, you know, what, what's their perception at that,
you know, their ability to comprehend what they're seeing. And
I guess before we go any further, I, uh, Lord,
(08:00):
have mercy. Literally, I hope this child is going to
be able to live out the life they've been given
in a healthy and supportive way, because this type of
thing happening early on in a life like this is
so scarring. That's one of the reasons, you know, in
(08:21):
my opening I've mentioned that there's been a lot made
about this case in the news media. I've shot away
from handling it up to this point for one reason.
I've been out of state for a while and I've
had even my own daughter had reached out to me
(08:42):
and she lives not too far from the location of
this By.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
The way, Carlton, Georgia is where we're talking about. It's
in West Georgia. If you know your geography, go to Atlanta,
Georgia and go west like you're heading towards to the
Alabama and is the last county before you get into
Alabama County?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Right, Yeah, And to be very precise, it's almost see
how can I describe it? It carries a Carrollton address,
but there's like this little flea speck of a village
called Tius And there's actually a road, Tius Road, that
runs through there, and.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
That's actually the road this house is on.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, exactly. And it's a tiny, unincorporated area where nothing
really ever happens.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
There's a post office there or was, you know, and
that's how the place got its name, I think. And
to think that something so brutal could happen and this
isolated location is I don't know why. It still surprises
me to this day, because you know, evil visits everywhere.
(09:51):
It doesn't matter where you are. As you well know, Dave,
nobody is immune to it. But when you see this
level like this, this level of violence in the seemingly
you know, kind of quiet, unassuming, little out of the
way place. It as it adds another level to this
as far as fear goes, and I can only imagine
(10:12):
the people that are surrounding this. So these actions that
have allegedly been taken by the sixteen year old at
the time have a ripple effect, and the least of
which is not going to be the child, a child
that discovered these bodies.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
They're going to barely scarce for the rest of their life.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Let me ask you something, Joe, because when the dispatch
and nine one one call is made and Sarah grayce
Patrick is being very specific about the injuries that are suffered,
these people are not alive. They are dead. CPR is
not necessary, and the nine one one dispatch is telling
officers headed out that way, that's what they're going into.
(10:55):
Now do officers, do deputies or whoever is heading out
to the scene. Do they immediately call and say, okay,
we've been told these things gunshot, wound dead. Do they
roll you? Do they roll forensics?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Then?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Do they roll who goes to the scene or is
it just deputies until they're there and clear you know,
and figure out we do have two dead bodies.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
This is the way the radio traffic goes, and I
can almost do it verbatim. Headquarters, this is Unit one,
Go ahead, Unit one. Yeah, we've got two deceased individuals.
And they won't say decease, they'll use the code. And
I'll give you an example. In Atlanta it was a
code forty eight. In New Orleans it was code twenty seven,
I think twenty seven, and they'll say, we've got two
(11:43):
forty eight's that are ten seven ten sevens radio code
for out of service, and that will be used for
the dead as well. So we've got two forty eight's here,
they're ten to seven. We need to get CID and
crime scene and route and so that's the way the
radio traffic. And when radio gets that information, they will
literally reach out to the own call and in this case,
(12:04):
it would be an on call with probably Carroll County
Sheriff's Department CID Criminal Investigation Division. Now they could either
be at headquarters, which this is the top of the day.
We're going into the early into the midday, so they're
going to roll crimes against persons. Detective out there, they'll
(12:26):
be supervisors. They'll go ahead and get the crime scene
texts en route. This would probably require more than one.
They're going to be doing photography. Once c ID gets
out there and assesses the scene. In a rural area
like this, CID generally waits longer and they'll say, go
(12:46):
ahead and roll the corner out here, and they'll get
the corner. Because Carroll County does, in fact have a corner,
they don't have a medical examiner, and now the bodies
more than likely would probably go to the state. That
means that the GBI Georgia Bureau of Investigation would probably
get involved in this case to the degree that the
(13:10):
state and medical examiner is going to get involved. Now,
my suspicion in a case that has been going on
this long day, which it has been, I mean we're
talking about months now, Yeah, I would imagine that they
have at least sourced out or have asked for assistance
from GBI agents. You've already got their crime lab involved
in it, so they're going to be analyzing any kind
(13:32):
of physical evidence that's at the scene.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And my understanding is that Carroll County as soon as
they knew what they had, Yeah, and I mean this
is probably within a matter of minutes. They were on
the phone with other authorities at the next level up
because they're a small county, Carroll County, and they needed help.
They knew they had a double homicide. Yeah, their first
thought was murder suicide too. You've got to rule that out,
(13:58):
and they did and once they.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Were the biggest that's the biggest, the biggest red flag there.
I don't know if it's a red flag, that's that's
not accurate. The biggest indicator to them, Dave, is that
if it's a murder suicide, where's the gun.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
There ain't no gun.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You got one or two possibilities, Uh, that it ain't
a murder suicide, or that somebody has tampered with the
scene and has removed the weapon. Now I have I
have worked cases where it was in fact a murder
suicide and the person it happens one of two ways.
(14:39):
Either the person that found the bodies has grabbed the
weapon and removed the weapon, which in certain circumstances you
can kind of understand it because they're fearful they don't
deal with this sort of thing, or uh, that someone
else has crept in there and tried to alter the
(15:01):
scene to make it look like a double homicide.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You know those those two scenarios have involved in both
those scenarios before, and so my suspicion is is that
as soon as the PD rolled up on the scene,
the first person that they're going to talk to is
now who they suspect is the murder. If I ever
(15:40):
had my preference as far as the type or type
of environment I had to work involving a homicide, I'm
always going to land on indoors.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
It's outdoors.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It's we use I use the term, I use it,
I know too much, But the outdoor environments are so
dynamic there. You're well, first off, you're you're at the
mercy of nature, everything from animals to weather and the
blistering heat.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Not to say it doesn't get.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Hot in people's houses, but the blistering heat, the blistering cold.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
You know, you mentioned the weather shoe. Remember the track
meet out in Texas where we had Austin Metcalf that yeah, yeah, yeah,
And you know, it started raining and they had to
cover the area with stuff and they actually covered with
a blue tarp that they just police found and one
of the things they used to hold the tarp down
ended up being the book bag of the suspect. Yeah,
(16:45):
they had a knife that I mean they messed that
crime scene was messed up, not because of the police,
but because of the weather immediately impacting that. I didn't
think about that when you started talking about environment really messing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I think one I've got one that goes back further
than that, and that's Tradon Martin. Oh my god, they'd
let his body lay lay out there. And it's Florida,
as you well as everybody. One thing you're going to
encounter in Florida other than bugs and heat are rainstorms
and you know, you can almost set your watch, can't
you buy it in Florida by the rainstorms in the summer,
(17:18):
you know, and they let rain, you know, come down
on his body. I never could understand that because you
can go into any catalog online that sells crimpsinge equipment
and guess what they sell crompsne tents. Yeah, they're easy,
They're out there, you can pick them up. You know,
they're available on all locations.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Just definitely. I as somebody who has been in radio
broadcasting most of my adult life. Yeah, radio people are
not known for being super intelligent. We have little pop
up tents that you could use, that idiots like us
could use. So, yeah, there's a way to keep this
from happening.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah no, yeah, And so when you've got a roof
over your head though, right, it's so much more advantageous.
I know that's rather obvious, but we begin to think
about containment, and not just containment here, it's containment to
now the entire home. Just so folks understand, if you're
(18:11):
working a CROM scene inside of a structure, and say
it's a multi room structure, we're not talking about like
an open garage multi room structure. The entire structure is
still the CROM scene. Even though the bodies might be
in a bedroom. Everything else is secured and treated like
part of the CROM scene, which it is.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
All right, So when you get in there to the bedroom, Joe,
I'm thinking, based on the arrest of the daughter, all
I'm a sixteen year old daughter. I'm thinking, and they
were found in bed, that they were shot while they
were asleep. That's what I'm thinking. I could be wrong,
but that's what i'm thinking. And I'm picturing in my
head blankets, cheap cover pillows. Yeah, maybe close. All of
(18:58):
that is on top with the bodies underneath, and I'm thinking,
how do you come into that environment and figure out
is this blood spatter here from the shot on this victim,
on that victim? Where do you start when you walk
(19:18):
into that to try to figure out what happened. It's
not as simple as being able to walk in and say, oh,
they're both shot. We can't find a gun, but their
sixteen year old daughter has a lot of really weird
TikTok videos. Let's arrest her and just beat the answer
out of her. And that doesn't work. You've got to
solve the crime. You got to work the scene, right.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, And you know, my department is the science and
it will always be the science because I think that
in this old universe it's one of the most reliable
things we have to fall back on because people are well,
let's face it, they're liars. They'll just see they do everything.
And so for me, you know, I will always turn
(19:55):
back to the science in a case and let's just
take blood deposition in a so it can be very dynamic.
You can have particularly when you have multiple bodies that
are in a very tight space. You can have commingling
of blood. You can have overlap where let's say you've
got two individuals that are shot side by side, they
(20:20):
can be showered with the blood of another person that
is immediately adjacent. I reflect back to a triple homicide
I had years ago that I worked that was probably
about twenty miles away now about twenty five miles away
from where this one took place in a town called
Union City, Georgia, where I had three guys that were
(20:41):
interlinked holding arms on a love seat that were forced
down by drug dealers, and they were all shot with
the same weapon in the forehead and it was a
cult python as a three point fifty seven magnum and
that created a tremendous amount of blood deposition, and it
(21:02):
was all commingled on each one of them. So that's
a good point. What you have to do is that
you assume that that is going to be the case
and every layer because you're telling you'd mentioned blankets, for instance,
and we don't know because they're not releasing a lot
of information which is there, which is the way the
GBI generally operates. I've been around them long enough to
(21:25):
know that they only release bits of information as they
see fit. I understand that completely, but you would work
each layer. Let's just let's just think about the bedclothes. Okay,
you're going to take that top blanket off. Well, some
of the considerations you have for that that keep using
(21:48):
the term multiple gunshot wounds.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
They didn't say each has been shot. They say multiple gunshots.
And so where they shot through the bedclothes, like through
a comforter, through an underlying blanket, through a sheet, and
then did said projectile pass through the body and go
through the fitted sheet and wind up in the mattress.
(22:14):
That has happened or was the person at such an
angle where they shot maybe below the chin, it passes
through the comforter that's pulled up to the chin, goes
through the skull and goes into the headboard. I've had
that happen. So you get these multi if you can
just imagine like these laser lines which we use, by
the way, to pull trajectories with now you can see
(22:38):
them intersecting through the air. You know, when you see
that photograph of laser trajectories, it's really striking. I mean
it's really something, and you get an idea not just
to the track of the bullet. But Dave, you also
get an idea of the position of the shooter relative
to the victims. Where what's the highest probability of where
(23:01):
this individual not just would have been standing, but what
position Where then, do you think they were fully erect
firing downward into the body, where they at a slight angle,
where they flat? Were they lower and shooting up? Did
they crawl on the floor in there and shoot up
at the individual? Because there's all possibilities that have to
be entertained in this environment, and each day, each one
(23:24):
of these layers has to be removed. And we're just
talking about the gunshot. We're not talking about the blood
deposition each that would have to be examined by somebody
separate to that. Okay, so you've got people examining the
trajectories of the rounds, the range of fire. Did they
fire from wherein two to three inches or were they
(23:44):
eighteen inches back when they fired? Is there any kind
of deposition on the bedclothes, assuming that it passed for
bed clothes, where you've got powder deposition, you can get
a range of fire on it. Well, this looks like
because because I've got unburned gunpowder in this area. Yeah,
(24:05):
this looks like maybe there were a foot away when
they fired. That's powerful stuff, you know. And then you
have the assessment of the blood. Also, here's something else
that's quite fascinating to me. Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I know that this is a fact because both you
and I live in Alabama. Have you ever had a
lightning bolt hit outside your house and the thunder was
so strong and you were in a dead sleep and
suddenly you were not in a dead sleep, and you're saying,
what in the hell just happened? It's at the end
of the world. Well, imagine you're laying in bed and
(24:45):
a rifle shot cracks off or a gunshot cracks off
all of a sudden, you're going to have like this
kind of foggy awareness. I've often wondered about these cases
where people in close proximity reactive. How how did they react?
Because is it in this case they say that they
(25:07):
don't have a weapon. I think my question is that
more than one weapon. Was it done simultaneously or was
it the same weapon? Because they haven't released it, I
don't know if it's semi automatic. We've got multiple spent casings,
at the scene. They're saying multiple gunshots. So do you
have multiple spent casings at the scene that are bounced around?
(25:29):
You got spent brassets all over the floor or laying
on top of the comforter or that stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
You have to figure out. You have to way to
answer all those questions.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Before you can ever listen, before you can ever touch
the bodies.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
At the scene.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
You have to understand that I had I had a
friend of mine that I have a distinct memory. He
had a small.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
He was so fastidious.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
He had a small a metal detector and he would
run it. If he had a case involving beds and sheets,
they would run this thing over that. And I only
saw him do it once. And it is actually and
he did find a spent casing in the in the bed,
and it seems practical, right. You know, of course you
(26:18):
can get you can get hits on other things in
the bed, depend upon how the bed is structured, any
kind of metallic object in there. But you don't know
because so many things have been hidden. I mean, let's
face it, Dave, how many times I can tell you
Kim and I you know what the discussion is. Every
single night we're laying in bed together and we've got
this huge TV that hangs on the way. Not again,
(26:38):
what our discussion always is.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Come on, Joe, not a yet.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
It's okay, where's the remote? You can't find it because
wallow it up. Just imagine now that you're looking for
a lead core, projectile or brass that's contained in that wadding,
that wad bed clothes that are all kind of wrapped around.
It's very it's very complex stuff you want to try
(27:09):
to understand. Like, for instance, if somebody is shot in bed,
did they immediately die or did they writhe around in
pain because they're bleeding out and you've got you don't
just have like dynamic blood deposition where it's like a
high velocity. You've got now you've got these kind of
(27:29):
smears where they've rolled around in it. Just imagine if
you get paint on your shoulder and you take that
paint and you contact a clean wall and you rub
your well, that doesn't look the same as like spray.
This looks completely different. That's a contact where it smears
across the surface. When you get these smears in the
(27:49):
bed as well, and that you can't just merely dismiss
that You'll see people that have had full awareness that
they've been shot, had people where they have placed a
hand over a defect in their own body, dave and
gotten that blood on their own hand and then smeared
(28:11):
it adjacent to their own body, and you can see
their own handprint in their own blood because they're trying
to stem or they're trying to figure out where they're shot.
Then they're trying to stem the bleeding. So yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
A nutty environment to be in. And you have to.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Look if your daughter's having a dance, recitle, your kid's
having a baseball game, you've got bills that are due,
you've got problems at home. You have to check all
that stuff at the door because you have to be
completely on your game when you walk into that room, because,
let's face it, you never know what's hiding, evenly in
(28:50):
bed immediately adjacent to you. Patricide is such an odd term.
I mean, we have, you know, all kinds of terms
(29:13):
for many things involving death, but Patrick's side is kind
of chilling when you think about it. It's the killing
of one's own parent or parents. I've worked many cases
as an investigator. I think probably one of the most
over the top. I had a guy that was the
(29:35):
son of a local dentist in the whole family worked
in the dental office save this one guy. His sister
worked there, his mom and dad. His dad was the dentist,
mom had always been the receptionist. And he just came
into his dad's office and murdered every single one of
(29:58):
them there, and then went to.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Their family.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Church, their parish and parked in the parking lot and
shot himself there. And there were this guy his back seat.
They was literally full of weapons, full of weapons, and
his sister was really weird. I'll never forget this. His sister,
she looked like what your image of snow white would be.
(30:29):
She had like I'll never forget. She had this kind
of ivory colored skin and jet black air and it
was bobbed, and we went to examine her body in
the morgue. She was wearing a bra and she had
about forty Saint Christopher metals pinned to her bra, and she.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Was really big.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
The family was really They had a family altar in
the house. They also had an indoor pool. I'll never
forget this, and the pool was completely covered with green scum.
Hadn't been swimming in years. But the violence that he
exacted on his family, it reaches another level. You know.
(31:08):
That's why we always talk about things like overkill. It
reaches another level because you've got that element of anger
and whatever's going on, the psychopathology that's going on, and
all of that stuff coupled and it is a danger storm.
And we've said it before, this is why cops are
so brave because they got on domestic calls and you
(31:28):
never know what you're walking into. You're literally walking if
you think, being around strangers that don't know one another
and they you know, we see these things on videos
all the time where people are attacking total strangers. Nothing
matches or compares to family violence. And you know, we've
(31:49):
we've had a lot of these cases over the years,
Gypsy Rose Blanchard, for instance. You know, I didn't think
that we would. And there's still milk in this case.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
The media is you know, I don't know how many
individual stories have been told about it.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
You know, Joe. A lot of it has to do
with the media getting involved and getting sucked into a story.
In the case of Gypsy Rose Blanchard and her mother
because her mother milked it from multiple communities and beyond
the fact that it was Munchausen by proxy maybe to
a degree. But then it became a big con and
then they were both in on the con, mother and daughter.
(32:27):
But the daughter was so physically and mentally and psychologically
and emotionally abused that I don't even know what her
culpability is in the con but it was enough to
drive her to murdering her mother, you know, because she
didn't want to be treated like a child anymore. She
was a young adult.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
And yeah, I submit to you. I've always felt with
that case in particular, that it's dangerous to do any
kind of comparison. I know, but she essentially prostituted her
own daughter, And there's different types of prostitution obviously, when
you have this child that when.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
She was a child, she was taught to behave as as.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
She was younger than she was and went through unnecessary surgeries.
And I can't begin to imagine the idea that she
had her salbrated glands removed just in himself. If that
doesn't make you angry, I don't know what now doesn't
justify what happened. No, and she drug this kid into
this thing who has his own problems.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
And he ends up going to prison the rest of
his life. And she's already out of jail, married and
had a child. Yeah, I know, gives you Rose's mom's dad.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
But and somebody else that's in the news right now
are the Menindez brothers.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Oh my gosh, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Listen, they've been found guilty of a double homicide of
their parents. You talk about high velocity, You're talking about
both mom and dad being shotgunned to death in front
of their kids. But yet, you know, you know, I've
done my time. I'm coming out, you know, tied the
(34:04):
yellow ribbon around the old oak tree. And you know
there's still people that you know, and I'll have people
will send me private messages and say, hey, when are
you going to cover the Meninde's case, because you know
it's in the news and all that sort of thing. Well,
I think everything has kind of been said about that
from a forensic standpoint, they blasted both of their parents
to death with twelve gage shotgun.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And parents were sitting on a couch.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, exactly, you know, not you know, beyond that, it
doesn't hold much interest, you know, for me, I think
about that other than.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
The idea that they're going to get out of jail
probably you know.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, they probably will.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And then of course I would you know, I would say, well,
what kind of example is the setting for anybody else
that's thinking about this.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You know, there's a thing that we used to refer
to as deterrent.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, and somebody's sentencing is actually meant to be a deterrence,
not just to them committing a further crime, but as
an example of what not.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
To do, or you'll pay this, you'll pay this price.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
The thing that really bothers me about this, and it's
because we know that in the Meninda's brother's case, we
know that they what they did after they got the money.
We know that's what they wanted. They were spoiled, rotten
brats whose dad was saying, you guys got to do
something to earn this.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Then they came up with the idea that okay, wait
a minute, we need sympathy. He was abusing us. You know, well,
the guy's dead. He can't answer for himself. You know,
there could be no investigation because you killed the guy.
Now you claim he was abusing you, and there's no
record of this. There was nothing there and you're going
to get out of prison because of this idea that
thirty years later we forgot, We for we lost our soul,
(35:41):
we forgot the truth, we forgot the forensics. We just
forgot everything in thirty years. And by the way, both
the Meninda's brothers have gotten married behind bars, right and
not to men that they shared a cell with. We're
talking about women, you know. I'm just tired of seeing
these things get turned around.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Oh and while we're on the into brothers and abuse
prediction prediction, you can go write this down and file
it away for future reference. Sarah Grace Patrick, My prediction
is is it the defense team that she is assigned
to or is given or whatever the case, the term
abuse is going to come up. I can see it
(36:19):
coming a mile away. I know that that's going to
be an explanation for whatever happened. It's it's like the
fallback point. But talk about talk about over the top.
Do you remember a couple of years back and I
know that I covered this on body Bags, I just
(36:41):
can't remember when. And that's the Heather of Matt case,
where you know you've got this this girl whose dad
had died because of some kind of food infection or
something had happened, and she was left with her mother.
They had money, and they're in ba of all places
(37:02):
now they were originally I think, Dave correct me if
I'm wrong, they were from Chicago.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Chicago.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, and at that house with Heather Mack and her mother,
I think there had been over eighty domestic disturbance calls that.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I had to cover this story ad nauseam because it
was that ridiculous. Joe, But yeah, she was horrible to
her mother. I'm not saying her mother was an angel
by any stretch of the imagination, but Heather Mack obviously
was a spoiled brat who just acted out physically, emotionally
and just terrorized her own mother. And by the way,
the reason they were in Bali was because Heather was
(37:37):
dating this guy the mom didn't approve of, didn't want
her to be involved, and Heather had decided, Okay, we'll
go on this vacation. Mom, it's just going to be us.
That's what her mother wanted, just my daughter and I
away from all of the other bad stuff. Let's get
let's get our heart back together. All the while Heather
plans on sneaking her boyfriend there on mom's dime. You
know she paid me her credit card.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yes, yeah, I'm sure that was an inexpensive flight. And
then the mother to death with the metal object, stuff
her into a suitcase. And if I'm correct me if
I'm wrong, but they were waiting for a taxi day
with Mom's body inside of a suitcase. And there is
(38:19):
blood that's draining out of the scene onto the sidewalk.
If I'm not mistaken, it had leached out. I don't
know if that's accurate or not. I can't remember, but
I know that they had her stuffed inside of a.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Suitcase out there, Yes they did.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And you know so again, this idea of killing one's
parents is nothing new under the sun. But I can
tell you this from what we understand, Dave, and I'll
let you expand on this just a wee bit. There
(38:55):
has been some conversation that implies that there may be
more than Sarah Grace Patrick involved in this double homicide.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Can you was actually brought up at the press conference. Yeah,
they actually during the press conference announcing the arrest. Now,
remember you mentioned earlier, this has gone on for several months.
The murder is the double homicide happened on February twentieth,
twenty twenty five, with no forced entry. Parents are dead,
two girls, a sixteen year old and a five year
old in the house at the time. Police are called
(39:31):
and a small community, as you outlined, and people wanted
answers who did this? How did it happen? And the
police they played it very close to the vest and
when they finally made the arrest, they announced that they
had arrested now seventeen year old Sarah Grace Patrick. And
when the press conference was ongoing, there was a question,
(39:54):
you know, is it closed this and they're like, no,
there might be more arrests. They left it at that.
They did not go into it. But you know, police
are they like to say, this is it. There is
nothing else, this is the this is the culprit, this
is the person we suspect did all of this. There
isn't anything else to see. We're focused on this. Yeah, yes,
(40:16):
that's what they said, safely tonight, right. They want to
say that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
They didn't and that was the thing I think that
you picked up on. I don't want to put word
to them out. No, Yeah, they didn't go to any
links to kind of reassure the public.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Did they not at all?
Speaker 3 (40:30):
As a matter of fact, when I got it, because
I expected it, you know, having been covering this stuff
for a long time, you expect please say, no, she
acted alone, or we have the other person in custody
as well. I mean that's not what they Yeah, but
not here. Here they were like, no, there might be
more arrests, We're not done. This is still And that's
(40:51):
when when the police stop answering questions, say hey, this
is an ongoing investigation. That's when you're going, Okay, she
had help. She had to have help at this and
we don't know who it is or anything else. But
you just got to remember that they don't have the
weapon they're we're aware of yet we don't know. They
haven't said yes, we have the murder weapon. We just
know that in a murder suicide, the weapon would be
(41:12):
right there. And that's not what they found.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, and so you begin to think about the sixteen
year old, how how do they have access to a firearm? Ye?
And look, I mean there's a lot of a lot
of families that have a lot of firearms, but that's
the key here. Yeah, did her stepfather own a weapon
and if he owned a weapon, was the weapon still
contained at the scene, was it secured, had it not
(41:36):
been fired? Or was a weapon or weapons plural brought
into this home.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I did want to ask you something, Joe, Yeah, bud Well,
something did come up. Was that Jamie Brock, the stepfather,
forty five year old dad, he actually had a bad heart. Yeah,
and he was awaiting a heart transplant. He'd had several
surgeries and he he had something was installed in his body.
(42:06):
I can't remember what it was called, the Dad, Dad.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's a left ventricular assistance device. The and if you
think about the you know, our heart has four chambers,
right and left ventricle, right and left atrium, and the
left ventricle had it's presenting with problems. It's beginning to
shut down on him. And there's all kinds of manifestations
(42:31):
you can have, you know, with you can have wall thickening,
you can have left centricular hypertrophy is what it's referred to,
and that means that it becomes really flabby. There's any
number of things, and I'm just scratching the surface.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
But he was a.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Candidate, He's a serious candidate for a heart transplant. So
he's in a and he's this poor man's gone through
multiple surgeries, you know, over a period of time. He's
you know, he's he's in a weak ined state, but
he you know, on the surf it, you know. And
he's got family members on his side of the family,
a niece in particular that he loved greatly, that he
(43:08):
had had contact with. His sons has been very vocal
in his support.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Well, you know, when you get down to the nitty
gritty of a small community, a lot of people have
had because apparently Jamie Brock had been wild from time
to time, I guess it's the best way to put it.
But he and his wife Kristin, they've been taken to
a church, you know, by some neighbors that they became
close to. And if you've ever fallen in love with
(43:36):
a church home and gotten plugged in where it's just
a really good fit, it changes your world. And that's
what happened with Jamie and Kristen. Their world change when
they got plugged into this church to the point where
this man who's waiting to have a heart transplant goes
and steam cleans the carpet at the church that's the
kind of man he is, and the family of saying,
(44:00):
look at this, you know this guy is a good guy.
What happened Meanwhile? He said the one thing that he
Jamie told his niece Sarah Grace Patrick is not who
you think she is. And I thought that's pretty important
because usually outside of our four walls, inside of our home,
when we talked to our loved ones, our family members,
(44:23):
if they have nice things to say about our family,
we don't contradict them because most of us want them
to know, we want them to think everything inside our
house is peachy. Keene man, we don't want to hang
our dirty laundry out unless it's really bad. And he
did say, she's not what you think she is, not
what you think she is, and I thought, Oh, that
(44:44):
just makes my blood run cold.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
That hurts, it does.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
And apparently, oh what the police saw when they walked
in to that bedroom that morning and those two souls
had departed this earth and were lying in blood in
their bed, went some distance to potentially verify that supposition.
(45:14):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs
Quality diamonds, but Joseph's gotten more. I can't help myself.
I love babies. I love them, I you know, I
like pulling babies, and particularly my own, uh you know,
my grand babies. Spent hours rocking them. But have you
(00:25):
ever seen a baby that you just can't seem to
get settled down? There's so much frustration and anger, it
would seem. I don't know if they're capable of anger.
I think they are, that you can see their face
turned red. I've often heard people say that if that
(00:47):
kind of rage and anger could be channeled into an
adult male, that they.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Could kill it. Do surprise me, But what if what
if a child does.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Get angry? What if in modern parlance, they become triggered.
I've come to hate that term.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
But what if that happens? What do they do.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
With that teenage anger? Today on Bodybags, we're going to
talk about one such teenager, an accused teenager, an accused teenager.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Who has allegedly.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Taken the life, our lives of her parents and altered
the lives of all of the others surrounding that family.
We're going to dig into the case of Sarah Grace Patrick.
(02:02):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs, Dave.
I got to tell you, I still see kids daily
that are angry. That is in college students, not every boy,
but you know, I see them, and I'll see them
(02:23):
direct anger at me or at my colleagues, and I'm thinking,
what have we done to be the target of this
kind of rage? Many times because it's just like they
just sometimes they'll just it'll be overwhelming, and I'm thinking,
We're not the source of this. This, this has got
a deeper route to it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I don't remember that happening when I was in college.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I didn't even I was so afraid of my professors.
I wouldn't even talk to them most of the time.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I never encourage me. I never want to.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
See an advisor the entire time I was in college.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Now, I thought that was a sign of weakness and
they'd end up using it against me.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Hey, you know what I got to tell you a
quick one about Kim. My wife got her undergraduate and
her graduate degree actually in the same town where this
case they were discussing. Is that she went to West
Georgia College. At college at the Times University now. And
Kim takes great pride in telling me that she kept
(03:24):
the little manual that they give you, you know, the
spiral manual they give you when you first arrive as
a as a freshman, And she said, I didn't need
anybody to tell me what I wanted to do. I
knew what I was going to major in. And she said,
I just went through and systematically checked each box. And
I kept that same thing, and she got her undergraduate
in three and a half years. They never missed a summer.
(03:46):
She just grinded it out. But now, you know, we
we have to handhold all the way through for most
you know, I'll have I'll still have kids that'll come
to me, you know, seniors and say I don't know
what I want to do. And that's understandable, I know,
but yeah, you get anger and frustration, and anger and
(04:09):
frustration directed at parents is something that has always existed.
I dealt with it. I'm sure that you dealt with it.
I'm sure that my kids have dealt with it and
continue to deal with it on a regular basis. But
when you have something, Dave that ends in a homicide
(04:29):
or a double homicide, it really doesn't give you pause,
doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
The one thing I told you when we start talking
about is Sarah Grace Patrick. She was sixteen at the
time February twentieth of this year, twenty twenty five. This
is an ongoing case where an arrest has just been made,
but there were several comments that have been made by
family members. Jamie Brock is a forty five year old
(04:56):
stepfather to Sarah Grace Patrick. Her mother, Kristen is forty
one biological mother. Jamie and Kristen have a child together,
little girl, five years old at the time. The reason
I bring that up is this is a yours mind
and oursh family. Jamie had some other children I know
(05:16):
of at least one son because he spoke out publicly
about some of the things being said, and so we
know this is a blended family, and we know that
Sarah Grace Patrick was living in the home with her
mother and stepfather and her half sister. I only identify
it that way because that is the realistic bloodline, and
(05:37):
it might have something to do with this. I don't know,
because this is a breaking story. But right now we
know that in the early morning hours of February twentieth,
a Thursday, that the parents were not up to get
everybody ready for work in school and whatever they do,
and their five year old daughter gets up read her mom,
(06:00):
you know, ready for the regular start of the day,
and mom and dad were still in bed. She goes
into their room, and we're not sure what she saw
or what she thinks she saw or what she knows
she saw. Five year olds are so different. We know
she's six now, but we do not know exactly what
(06:21):
she identified with what she saw. But she did go
and tell Sarah, get up. Mom and dad are in bed,
And it was Sarah grayce Patrick that picked up the
phone and called nine one one. In the call, we
know that there was a dispatch talking to the deputies
on their way saying, no, these are we do not
(06:43):
need to be worrying about CPR. These are dead people.
That was pretty much what was said. Yeah, that's the stage.
I guess it's about it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
I'm thinking about the It's given me pause because I'm
thinking about the five year old right now, and I
had a kind of a flashback to a case that
cases that I've talked about here extensively on body Bags
and have covered on on a separate podcast called The
Pike didn't masker, and uh there was a child at
(07:15):
you know that that case involved four different scenes, and
there was a child that came to the door that
had found their deceased parents back in the back bedroom.
They'd been executed, and the child, it's it's amazing to
me what what kind of how how children perceived death,
(07:40):
And that child in that case came to the door
and said, Mommy and daddy are playing zombie, you know,
and you you know, you think about that, and you
think about, you know, what, what's their perception at that,
you know, their ability to comprehend what they're seeing. And
I guess before we go any further, I, uh, Lord,
(08:00):
have mercy. Literally, I hope this child is going to
be able to live out the life they've been given
in a healthy and supportive way, because this type of
thing happening early on in a life like this is
so scarring. That's one of the reasons, you know, in
(08:21):
my opening I've mentioned that there's been a lot made
about this case in the news media. I've shot away
from handling it up to this point for one reason.
I've been out of state for a while and I've
had even my own daughter had reached out to me
(08:42):
and she lives not too far from the location of
this By.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
The way, Carlton, Georgia is where we're talking about. It's
in West Georgia. If you know your geography, go to Atlanta,
Georgia and go west like you're heading towards to the
Alabama and is the last county before you get into
Alabama County?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Right, Yeah, And to be very precise, it's almost see
how can I describe it? It carries a Carrollton address,
but there's like this little flea speck of a village
called Tius And there's actually a road, Tius Road, that
runs through there, and.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
That's actually the road this house is on.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, exactly. And it's a tiny, unincorporated area where nothing
really ever happens.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
There's a post office there or was, you know, and
that's how the place got its name, I think. And
to think that something so brutal could happen and this
isolated location is I don't know why. It still surprises
me to this day, because you know, evil visits everywhere.
(09:51):
It doesn't matter where you are. As you well know, Dave,
nobody is immune to it. But when you see this
level like this, this level of violence in the seemingly
you know, kind of quiet, unassuming, little out of the
way place. It as it adds another level to this
as far as fear goes, and I can only imagine
(10:12):
the people that are surrounding this. So these actions that
have allegedly been taken by the sixteen year old at
the time have a ripple effect, and the least of
which is not going to be the child, a child
that discovered these bodies.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
They're going to barely scarce for the rest of their life.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Let me ask you something, Joe, because when the dispatch
and nine one one call is made and Sarah grayce
Patrick is being very specific about the injuries that are suffered,
these people are not alive. They are dead. CPR is
not necessary, and the nine one one dispatch is telling
officers headed out that way, that's what they're going into.
(10:55):
Now do officers, do deputies or whoever is heading out
to the scene. Do they immediately call and say, okay,
we've been told these things gunshot, wound dead. Do they
roll you? Do they roll forensics?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Then?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Do they roll who goes to the scene or is
it just deputies until they're there and clear you know,
and figure out we do have two dead bodies.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
This is the way the radio traffic goes, and I
can almost do it verbatim. Headquarters, this is Unit one,
Go ahead, Unit one. Yeah, we've got two deceased individuals.
And they won't say decease, they'll use the code. And
I'll give you an example. In Atlanta it was a
code forty eight. In New Orleans it was code twenty seven,
I think twenty seven, and they'll say, we've got two
(11:43):
forty eight's that are ten seven ten sevens radio code
for out of service, and that will be used for
the dead as well. So we've got two forty eight's here,
they're ten to seven. We need to get CID and
crime scene and route and so that's the way the
radio traffic. And when radio gets that information, they will
literally reach out to the own call and in this case,
(12:04):
it would be an on call with probably Carroll County
Sheriff's Department CID Criminal Investigation Division. Now they could either
be at headquarters, which this is the top of the day.
We're going into the early into the midday, so they're
going to roll crimes against persons. Detective out there, they'll
(12:26):
be supervisors. They'll go ahead and get the crime scene
texts en route. This would probably require more than one.
They're going to be doing photography. Once c ID gets
out there and assesses the scene. In a rural area
like this, CID generally waits longer and they'll say, go
(12:46):
ahead and roll the corner out here, and they'll get
the corner. Because Carroll County does, in fact have a corner,
they don't have a medical examiner, and now the bodies
more than likely would probably go to the state. That
means that the GBI Georgia Bureau of Investigation would probably
get involved in this case to the degree that the
(13:10):
state and medical examiner is going to get involved. Now,
my suspicion in a case that has been going on
this long day, which it has been, I mean we're
talking about months now, Yeah, I would imagine that they
have at least sourced out or have asked for assistance
from GBI agents. You've already got their crime lab involved
in it, so they're going to be analyzing any kind
(13:32):
of physical evidence that's at the scene.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And my understanding is that Carroll County as soon as
they knew what they had, Yeah, and I mean this
is probably within a matter of minutes. They were on
the phone with other authorities at the next level up
because they're a small county, Carroll County, and they needed help.
They knew they had a double homicide. Yeah, their first
thought was murder suicide too. You've got to rule that out,
(13:58):
and they did and once they.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Were the biggest that's the biggest, the biggest red flag there.
I don't know if it's a red flag, that's that's
not accurate. The biggest indicator to them, Dave, is that
if it's a murder suicide, where's the gun.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
There ain't no gun.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You got one or two possibilities, Uh, that it ain't
a murder suicide, or that somebody has tampered with the
scene and has removed the weapon. Now I have I
have worked cases where it was in fact a murder
suicide and the person it happens one of two ways.
(14:39):
Either the person that found the bodies has grabbed the
weapon and removed the weapon, which in certain circumstances you
can kind of understand it because they're fearful they don't
deal with this sort of thing, or uh, that someone
else has crept in there and tried to alter the
(15:01):
scene to make it look like a double homicide.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You know those those two scenarios have involved in both
those scenarios before, and so my suspicion is is that
as soon as the PD rolled up on the scene,
the first person that they're going to talk to is
now who they suspect is the murder. If I ever
(15:40):
had my preference as far as the type or type
of environment I had to work involving a homicide, I'm
always going to land on indoors.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
It's outdoors.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It's we use I use the term, I use it,
I know too much, But the outdoor environments are so
dynamic there. You're well, first off, you're you're at the
mercy of nature, everything from animals to weather and the
blistering heat.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Not to say it doesn't get.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Hot in people's houses, but the blistering heat, the blistering cold.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
You know, you mentioned the weather shoe. Remember the track
meet out in Texas where we had Austin Metcalf that yeah, yeah, yeah,
And you know, it started raining and they had to
cover the area with stuff and they actually covered with
a blue tarp that they just police found and one
of the things they used to hold the tarp down
ended up being the book bag of the suspect. Yeah,
(16:45):
they had a knife that I mean they messed that
crime scene was messed up, not because of the police,
but because of the weather immediately impacting that. I didn't
think about that when you started talking about environment really messing.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I think one I've got one that goes back further
than that, and that's Tradon Martin. Oh my god, they'd
let his body lay lay out there. And it's Florida,
as you well as everybody. One thing you're going to
encounter in Florida other than bugs and heat are rainstorms
and you know, you can almost set your watch, can't
you buy it in Florida by the rainstorms in the summer,
(17:18):
you know, and they let rain, you know, come down
on his body. I never could understand that because you
can go into any catalog online that sells crimpsinge equipment
and guess what they sell crompsne tents. Yeah, they're easy,
They're out there, you can pick them up. You know,
they're available on all locations.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Just definitely. I as somebody who has been in radio
broadcasting most of my adult life. Yeah, radio people are
not known for being super intelligent. We have little pop
up tents that you could use, that idiots like us
could use. So, yeah, there's a way to keep this
from happening.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah no, yeah, And so when you've got a roof
over your head though, right, it's so much more advantageous.
I know that's rather obvious, but we begin to think
about containment, and not just containment here, it's containment to
now the entire home. Just so folks understand, if you're
(18:11):
working a CROM scene inside of a structure, and say
it's a multi room structure, we're not talking about like
an open garage multi room structure. The entire structure is
still the CROM scene. Even though the bodies might be
in a bedroom. Everything else is secured and treated like
part of the CROM scene, which it is.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
All right, So when you get in there to the bedroom, Joe,
I'm thinking, based on the arrest of the daughter, all
I'm a sixteen year old daughter. I'm thinking, and they
were found in bed, that they were shot while they
were asleep. That's what I'm thinking. I could be wrong,
but that's what i'm thinking. And I'm picturing in my
head blankets, cheap cover pillows. Yeah, maybe close. All of
(18:58):
that is on top with the bodies underneath, and I'm thinking,
how do you come into that environment and figure out
is this blood spatter here from the shot on this victim,
on that victim? Where do you start when you walk
(19:18):
into that to try to figure out what happened. It's
not as simple as being able to walk in and say, oh,
they're both shot. We can't find a gun, but their
sixteen year old daughter has a lot of really weird
TikTok videos. Let's arrest her and just beat the answer
out of her. And that doesn't work. You've got to
solve the crime. You got to work the scene, right.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, And you know, my department is the science and
it will always be the science because I think that
in this old universe it's one of the most reliable
things we have to fall back on because people are well,
let's face it, they're liars. They'll just see they do everything.
And so for me, you know, I will always turn
(19:55):
back to the science in a case and let's just
take blood deposition in a so it can be very dynamic.
You can have particularly when you have multiple bodies that
are in a very tight space. You can have commingling
of blood. You can have overlap where let's say you've
got two individuals that are shot side by side, they
(20:20):
can be showered with the blood of another person that
is immediately adjacent. I reflect back to a triple homicide
I had years ago that I worked that was probably
about twenty miles away now about twenty five miles away
from where this one took place in a town called
Union City, Georgia, where I had three guys that were
(20:41):
interlinked holding arms on a love seat that were forced
down by drug dealers, and they were all shot with
the same weapon in the forehead and it was a
cult python as a three point fifty seven magnum and
that created a tremendous amount of blood deposition, and it
(21:02):
was all commingled on each one of them. So that's
a good point. What you have to do is that
you assume that that is going to be the case
and every layer because you're telling you'd mentioned blankets, for instance,
and we don't know because they're not releasing a lot
of information which is there, which is the way the
GBI generally operates. I've been around them long enough to
(21:25):
know that they only release bits of information as they
see fit. I understand that completely, but you would work
each layer. Let's just let's just think about the bedclothes. Okay,
you're going to take that top blanket off. Well, some
of the considerations you have for that that keep using
(21:48):
the term multiple gunshot wounds.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
They didn't say each has been shot. They say multiple gunshots.
And so where they shot through the bedclothes, like through
a comforter, through an underlying blanket, through a sheet, and
then did said projectile pass through the body and go
through the fitted sheet and wind up in the mattress.
(22:14):
That has happened or was the person at such an
angle where they shot maybe below the chin, it passes
through the comforter that's pulled up to the chin, goes
through the skull and goes into the headboard. I've had
that happen. So you get these multi if you can
just imagine like these laser lines which we use, by
the way, to pull trajectories with now you can see
(22:38):
them intersecting through the air. You know, when you see
that photograph of laser trajectories, it's really striking. I mean
it's really something, and you get an idea not just
to the track of the bullet. But Dave, you also
get an idea of the position of the shooter relative
to the victims. Where what's the highest probability of where
(23:01):
this individual not just would have been standing, but what
position Where then, do you think they were fully erect
firing downward into the body, where they at a slight angle,
where they flat? Were they lower and shooting up? Did
they crawl on the floor in there and shoot up
at the individual? Because there's all possibilities that have to
be entertained in this environment, and each day, each one
(23:24):
of these layers has to be removed. And we're just
talking about the gunshot. We're not talking about the blood
deposition each that would have to be examined by somebody
separate to that. Okay, so you've got people examining the
trajectories of the rounds, the range of fire. Did they
fire from wherein two to three inches or were they
(23:44):
eighteen inches back when they fired? Is there any kind
of deposition on the bedclothes, assuming that it passed for
bed clothes, where you've got powder deposition, you can get
a range of fire on it. Well, this looks like
because because I've got unburned gunpowder in this area. Yeah,
(24:05):
this looks like maybe there were a foot away when
they fired. That's powerful stuff, you know. And then you
have the assessment of the blood. Also, here's something else
that's quite fascinating to me. Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Brother.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I know that this is a fact because both you
and I live in Alabama. Have you ever had a
lightning bolt hit outside your house and the thunder was
so strong and you were in a dead sleep and
suddenly you were not in a dead sleep, and you're saying,
what in the hell just happened? It's at the end
of the world. Well, imagine you're laying in bed and
(24:45):
a rifle shot cracks off or a gunshot cracks off
all of a sudden, you're going to have like this
kind of foggy awareness. I've often wondered about these cases
where people in close proximity reactive. How how did they react?
Because is it in this case they say that they
(25:07):
don't have a weapon. I think my question is that
more than one weapon. Was it done simultaneously or was
it the same weapon? Because they haven't released it, I
don't know if it's semi automatic. We've got multiple spent casings,
at the scene. They're saying multiple gunshots. So do you
have multiple spent casings at the scene that are bounced around?
(25:29):
You got spent brassets all over the floor or laying
on top of the comforter or that stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
You have to figure out. You have to way to
answer all those questions.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Before you can ever listen, before you can ever touch
the bodies.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
At the scene.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
You have to understand that I had I had a
friend of mine that I have a distinct memory. He
had a small.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
He was so fastidious.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
He had a small a metal detector and he would
run it. If he had a case involving beds and sheets,
they would run this thing over that. And I only
saw him do it once. And it is actually and
he did find a spent casing in the in the bed,
and it seems practical, right. You know, of course you
(26:18):
can get you can get hits on other things in
the bed, depend upon how the bed is structured, any
kind of metallic object in there. But you don't know
because so many things have been hidden. I mean, let's
face it, Dave, how many times I can tell you
Kim and I you know what the discussion is. Every
single night we're laying in bed together and we've got
this huge TV that hangs on the way. Not again,
(26:38):
what our discussion always is.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Come on, Joe, not a yet.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
It's okay, where's the remote? You can't find it because
wallow it up. Just imagine now that you're looking for
a lead core, projectile or brass that's contained in that wadding,
that wad bed clothes that are all kind of wrapped around.
It's very it's very complex stuff you want to try
(27:09):
to understand. Like, for instance, if somebody is shot in bed,
did they immediately die or did they writhe around in
pain because they're bleeding out and you've got you don't
just have like dynamic blood deposition where it's like a
high velocity. You've got now you've got these kind of
(27:29):
smears where they've rolled around in it. Just imagine if
you get paint on your shoulder and you take that
paint and you contact a clean wall and you rub
your well, that doesn't look the same as like spray.
This looks completely different. That's a contact where it smears
across the surface. When you get these smears in the
(27:49):
bed as well, and that you can't just merely dismiss
that You'll see people that have had full awareness that
they've been shot, had people where they have placed a
hand over a defect in their own body, dave and
gotten that blood on their own hand and then smeared
(28:11):
it adjacent to their own body, and you can see
their own handprint in their own blood because they're trying
to stem or they're trying to figure out where they're shot.
Then they're trying to stem the bleeding. So yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
A nutty environment to be in. And you have to.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Look if your daughter's having a dance, recitle, your kid's
having a baseball game, you've got bills that are due,
you've got problems at home. You have to check all
that stuff at the door because you have to be
completely on your game when you walk into that room, because,
let's face it, you never know what's hiding, evenly in
(28:50):
bed immediately adjacent to you. Patricide is such an odd term.
I mean, we have, you know, all kinds of terms
(29:13):
for many things involving death, but Patrick's side is kind
of chilling when you think about it. It's the killing
of one's own parent or parents. I've worked many cases
as an investigator. I think probably one of the most
over the top. I had a guy that was the
(29:35):
son of a local dentist in the whole family worked
in the dental office save this one guy. His sister
worked there, his mom and dad. His dad was the dentist,
mom had always been the receptionist. And he just came
into his dad's office and murdered every single one of
(29:58):
them there, and then went to.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Their family.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Church, their parish and parked in the parking lot and
shot himself there. And there were this guy his back seat.
They was literally full of weapons, full of weapons, and
his sister was really weird. I'll never forget this. His sister,
she looked like what your image of snow white would be.
(30:29):
She had like I'll never forget. She had this kind
of ivory colored skin and jet black air and it
was bobbed, and we went to examine her body in
the morgue. She was wearing a bra and she had
about forty Saint Christopher metals pinned to her bra, and she.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Was really big.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
The family was really They had a family altar in
the house. They also had an indoor pool. I'll never
forget this, and the pool was completely covered with green scum.
Hadn't been swimming in years. But the violence that he
exacted on his family, it reaches another level. You know.
(31:08):
That's why we always talk about things like overkill. It
reaches another level because you've got that element of anger
and whatever's going on, the psychopathology that's going on, and
all of that stuff coupled and it is a danger storm.
And we've said it before, this is why cops are
so brave because they got on domestic calls and you
(31:28):
never know what you're walking into. You're literally walking if
you think, being around strangers that don't know one another
and they you know, we see these things on videos
all the time where people are attacking total strangers. Nothing
matches or compares to family violence. And you know, we've
(31:49):
we've had a lot of these cases over the years,
Gypsy Rose Blanchard, for instance. You know, I didn't think
that we would. And there's still milk in this case.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
The media is you know, I don't know how many
individual stories have been told about it.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
You know, Joe. A lot of it has to do
with the media getting involved and getting sucked into a story.
In the case of Gypsy Rose Blanchard and her mother
because her mother milked it from multiple communities and beyond
the fact that it was Munchausen by proxy maybe to
a degree. But then it became a big con and
then they were both in on the con, mother and daughter.
(32:27):
But the daughter was so physically and mentally and psychologically
and emotionally abused that I don't even know what her
culpability is in the con but it was enough to
drive her to murdering her mother, you know, because she
didn't want to be treated like a child anymore. She
was a young adult.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
And yeah, I submit to you. I've always felt with
that case in particular, that it's dangerous to do any
kind of comparison. I know, but she essentially prostituted her
own daughter, And there's different types of prostitution obviously, when
you have this child that when.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
She was a child, she was taught to behave as as.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
She was younger than she was and went through unnecessary surgeries.
And I can't begin to imagine the idea that she
had her salbrated glands removed just in himself. If that
doesn't make you angry, I don't know what now doesn't
justify what happened. No, and she drug this kid into
this thing who has his own problems.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
And he ends up going to prison the rest of
his life. And she's already out of jail, married and
had a child. Yeah, I know, gives you Rose's mom's dad.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
But and somebody else that's in the news right now
are the Menindez brothers.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Oh my gosh, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Listen, they've been found guilty of a double homicide of
their parents. You talk about high velocity, You're talking about
both mom and dad being shotgunned to death in front
of their kids. But yet, you know, you know, I've
done my time. I'm coming out, you know, tied the
(34:04):
yellow ribbon around the old oak tree. And you know
there's still people that you know, and I'll have people
will send me private messages and say, hey, when are
you going to cover the Meninde's case, because you know
it's in the news and all that sort of thing. Well,
I think everything has kind of been said about that
from a forensic standpoint, they blasted both of their parents
to death with twelve gage shotgun.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And parents were sitting on a couch.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, exactly, you know, not you know, beyond that, it
doesn't hold much interest, you know, for me, I think
about that other than.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
The idea that they're going to get out of jail
probably you know.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, they probably will.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And then of course I would you know, I would say, well,
what kind of example is the setting for anybody else
that's thinking about this.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You know, there's a thing that we used to refer
to as deterrent.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, and somebody's sentencing is actually meant to be a deterrence,
not just to them committing a further crime, but as
an example of what not.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
To do, or you'll pay this, you'll pay this price.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
The thing that really bothers me about this, and it's
because we know that in the Meninda's brother's case, we
know that they what they did after they got the money.
We know that's what they wanted. They were spoiled, rotten
brats whose dad was saying, you guys got to do
something to earn this.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Then they came up with the idea that okay, wait
a minute, we need sympathy. He was abusing us. You know, well,
the guy's dead. He can't answer for himself. You know,
there could be no investigation because you killed the guy.
Now you claim he was abusing you, and there's no
record of this. There was nothing there and you're going
to get out of prison because of this idea that
thirty years later we forgot, We for we lost our soul,
(35:41):
we forgot the truth, we forgot the forensics. We just
forgot everything in thirty years. And by the way, both
the Meninda's brothers have gotten married behind bars, right and
not to men that they shared a cell with. We're
talking about women, you know. I'm just tired of seeing
these things get turned around.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Oh and while we're on the into brothers and abuse
prediction prediction, you can go write this down and file
it away for future reference. Sarah Grace Patrick, My prediction
is is it the defense team that she is assigned
to or is given or whatever the case, the term
abuse is going to come up. I can see it
(36:19):
coming a mile away. I know that that's going to
be an explanation for whatever happened. It's it's like the
fallback point. But talk about talk about over the top.
Do you remember a couple of years back and I
know that I covered this on body Bags, I just
(36:41):
can't remember when. And that's the Heather of Matt case,
where you know you've got this this girl whose dad
had died because of some kind of food infection or
something had happened, and she was left with her mother.
They had money, and they're in ba of all places
(37:02):
now they were originally I think, Dave correct me if
I'm wrong, they were from Chicago.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Chicago.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, and at that house with Heather Mack and her mother,
I think there had been over eighty domestic disturbance calls that.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
I had to cover this story ad nauseam because it
was that ridiculous. Joe, But yeah, she was horrible to
her mother. I'm not saying her mother was an angel
by any stretch of the imagination, but Heather Mack obviously
was a spoiled brat who just acted out physically, emotionally
and just terrorized her own mother. And by the way,
the reason they were in Bali was because Heather was
(37:37):
dating this guy the mom didn't approve of, didn't want
her to be involved, and Heather had decided, Okay, we'll
go on this vacation. Mom, it's just going to be us.
That's what her mother wanted, just my daughter and I
away from all of the other bad stuff. Let's get
let's get our heart back together. All the while Heather
plans on sneaking her boyfriend there on mom's dime. You
know she paid me her credit card.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Yes, yeah, I'm sure that was an inexpensive flight. And
then the mother to death with the metal object, stuff
her into a suitcase. And if I'm correct me if
I'm wrong, but they were waiting for a taxi day
with Mom's body inside of a suitcase. And there is
(38:19):
blood that's draining out of the scene onto the sidewalk.
If I'm not mistaken, it had leached out. I don't
know if that's accurate or not. I can't remember, but
I know that they had her stuffed inside of a.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Suitcase out there, Yes they did.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And you know so again, this idea of killing one's
parents is nothing new under the sun. But I can
tell you this from what we understand, Dave, and I'll
let you expand on this just a wee bit. There
(38:55):
has been some conversation that implies that there may be
more than Sarah Grace Patrick involved in this double homicide.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Can you was actually brought up at the press conference. Yeah,
they actually during the press conference announcing the arrest. Now,
remember you mentioned earlier, this has gone on for several months.
The murder is the double homicide happened on February twentieth,
twenty twenty five, with no forced entry. Parents are dead,
two girls, a sixteen year old and a five year
old in the house at the time. Police are called
(39:31):
and a small community, as you outlined, and people wanted
answers who did this? How did it happen? And the
police they played it very close to the vest and
when they finally made the arrest, they announced that they
had arrested now seventeen year old Sarah Grace Patrick. And
when the press conference was ongoing, there was a question,
(39:54):
you know, is it closed this and they're like, no,
there might be more arrests. They left it at that.
They did not go into it. But you know, police
are they like to say, this is it. There is
nothing else, this is the this is the culprit, this
is the person we suspect did all of this. There
isn't anything else to see. We're focused on this. Yeah, yes,
(40:16):
that's what they said, safely tonight, right. They want to
say that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
They didn't and that was the thing I think that
you picked up on. I don't want to put word
to them out. No, Yeah, they didn't go to any
links to kind of reassure the public.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Did they not at all?
Speaker 3 (40:30):
As a matter of fact, when I got it, because
I expected it, you know, having been covering this stuff
for a long time, you expect please say, no, she
acted alone, or we have the other person in custody
as well. I mean that's not what they Yeah, but
not here. Here they were like, no, there might be
more arrests, We're not done. This is still And that's
(40:51):
when when the police stop answering questions, say hey, this
is an ongoing investigation. That's when you're going, Okay, she
had help. She had to have help at this and
we don't know who it is or anything else. But
you just got to remember that they don't have the
weapon they're we're aware of yet we don't know. They
haven't said yes, we have the murder weapon. We just
know that in a murder suicide, the weapon would be
(41:12):
right there. And that's not what they found.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Yeah, and so you begin to think about the sixteen
year old, how how do they have access to a firearm? Ye?
And look, I mean there's a lot of a lot
of families that have a lot of firearms, but that's
the key here. Yeah, did her stepfather own a weapon
and if he owned a weapon, was the weapon still
contained at the scene, was it secured, had it not
(41:36):
been fired? Or was a weapon or weapons plural brought
into this home.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
I did want to ask you something, Joe, Yeah, bud Well,
something did come up. Was that Jamie Brock, the stepfather,
forty five year old dad, he actually had a bad heart. Yeah,
and he was awaiting a heart transplant. He'd had several
surgeries and he he had something was installed in his body.
(42:06):
I can't remember what it was called, the Dad, Dad.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
It's a left ventricular assistance device. The and if you
think about the you know, our heart has four chambers,
right and left ventricle, right and left atrium, and the
left ventricle had it's presenting with problems. It's beginning to
shut down on him. And there's all kinds of manifestations
(42:31):
you can have, you know, with you can have wall thickening,
you can have left centricular hypertrophy is what it's referred to,
and that means that it becomes really flabby. There's any
number of things, and I'm just scratching the surface.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
But he was a.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Candidate, He's a serious candidate for a heart transplant. So
he's in a and he's this poor man's gone through
multiple surgeries, you know, over a period of time. He's
you know, he's he's in a weak ined state, but
he you know, on the surf it, you know. And
he's got family members on his side of the family,
a niece in particular that he loved greatly, that he
(43:08):
had had contact with. His sons has been very vocal
in his support.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Well, you know, when you get down to the nitty
gritty of a small community, a lot of people have
had because apparently Jamie Brock had been wild from time
to time, I guess it's the best way to put it.
But he and his wife Kristin, they've been taken to
a church, you know, by some neighbors that they became
close to. And if you've ever fallen in love with
(43:36):
a church home and gotten plugged in where it's just
a really good fit, it changes your world. And that's
what happened with Jamie and Kristen. Their world change when
they got plugged into this church to the point where
this man who's waiting to have a heart transplant goes
and steam cleans the carpet at the church that's the
kind of man he is, and the family of saying,
(44:00):
look at this, you know this guy is a good guy.
What happened Meanwhile? He said the one thing that he
Jamie told his niece Sarah Grace Patrick is not who
you think she is. And I thought that's pretty important
because usually outside of our four walls, inside of our home,
when we talked to our loved ones, our family members,
(44:23):
if they have nice things to say about our family,
we don't contradict them because most of us want them
to know, we want them to think everything inside our
house is peachy. Keene man, we don't want to hang
our dirty laundry out unless it's really bad. And he
did say, she's not what you think she is, not
what you think she is, and I thought, Oh, that
(44:44):
just makes my blood run cold.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
That hurts, it does.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
And apparently, oh what the police saw when they walked
in to that bedroom that morning and those two souls
had departed this earth and were lying in blood in
their bed, went some distance to potentially verify that supposition.
(45:14):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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