December 18, 2024 • 40 mins
Luigi Mangione allegedly shot and killed CEO of United Healthcare Brian Thompson on December 4, 2024. The suspect in the shooting is a 26-year-old person of means; smart, educated, and now, possibly a killer. Joseph Scott Morgan breaks down the type of weapon used and how it would function, the ammunition used, as well as the damage it could do to the intended target. Dave Mack tries to fill in the background of the story as it continues to evolve. This is Part One of Two.
Transcript Highlights
00:00:00.71 Introduction
00:00:57.91 Growing up spoiled
00:05:28.58 Luigi Mangione manifesto
00:08:55.84 Mangione creating characters on computer
00:12:26.42 Chronic pain in lower back
00:17:38.37 Description of using 3D printed gun
00:24:56.27 Scheduling an event, waiting for victim
00:28:37.77 Suspect and weapons
00:33:23.74 Description of "site picture"
00:38:29.89 Shot and effect on body
00:39:01.33 Conclusion of part one
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body does, but Joseph's gotten more. I don't know that
anyone out there would actually admit to being spoiled when
they were a child. You like to think that you
weren't spoiled, and I was not spoiled by my mother. However,
(00:22):
the one person in my life that did spoil me
was my grandmother. Her name's Pearl, by the way, if
you haven't read my memoir, talk about her a lot,
and of course, still to this day, I think that
she was an angel on earth. And I hate to
tie this back to materialism, but grandmothers are interesting creatures
(00:47):
to say, and the reason they are is that if
they have a grandchild that they dote upon, and I
was the only one at that time, you knew that
there was always a trip to the toy store in
your future, and for me, the toy store and I'm
really going back in time here. The toy store that
we always went to was T.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
G and Y.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Many people have never heard that name before. There was
also Ben Franklin. There were several of them. These places
don't exist anymore, but those trips would consistently end in
me reaping the benefit of being spoiled because my grandmother
would buy me anything that I'd want off of those shelves,
(01:32):
and she didn't have a lot of money. But my
favorite toy to get was any new toy pistol that
they had, and it could be one of those Star
Trek pistols that she's the little plastic disc. Always dig those.
I love those things. You could stack them inside. Look
that up if you've never seen it, and of course
(01:53):
they will fall back. A cap pistol was always lovely.
And they did have a semblance back then of these
guns that would kind of shoot these padded darts, not
quite as sophisticated as the ones today. Always love those pistols.
But the thing about it is, even as a small child,
(02:14):
I could feel the weight of it. Didn't feel like
the guns that my grandfather had heavy metal. They had
substance to them today though, I'm going to talk about
another gun. I'm going to talk about a gun that
is essentially made from a type of plastic polymer actually,
(02:39):
and that weapon, acquired allegedly by one individual and held
in that individual's hand and used to assassinate an individual
on the streets of Manhattan, has created let's say, havoc
(03:00):
around the nation for these past few days. We're going
to talk about the assassination in the early morning hours
of CEO Brian Thompson and the alleged perpetrator, Luigi man Jonny.
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs brother Dave.
(03:29):
You know, look, we we will catch cases. I'm talking
to you like I'm talking to a fellow investigator. We've
said all the time, we caught a case. So but
for us, in the world that we inhabit, we do
catch cases that you know, people use term zeitgeist and
(03:50):
things like that, and this is not a zeitgeist thing.
It's just whatever's kind of pulsing through the veins of
the media at any moment in time. But there are
those cases that, day after day after day, we're going
to cover him. And when I say we, I mean
you to a greater extent than I because you are
Nancy Grace's right hand man. You're having to put all
(04:13):
of this stuff together. I just want to add, first off,
I want to check it. Are you okay? All right?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It's been an exhausting we you know in that You're right,
we have covered it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
But I was.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Luigi Mangioni is a twenty six year old rich kid.
And when you mentioned spoiled, and I thought, I know
how Joe was spoiled. It was with love and a granny.
It wasn't spoiled like this guy was spoiled, Although he
was spoiled with love and a granny too. There's a
lot of love in the Mangoni household, but there was
also a lot of money. But his wealth and some
(04:48):
of the things that he has said in his manifesto
leads you to believe that he's something other than what
he is. And I don't know if he is. I
don't know. We'll find out, But yes, I am pretty
exhausted with this story, and rightly so. How many of
us today have had issues with health care insurance ever
(05:09):
since the government got involved? Quick, raise your hands. Everybody has.
Everybody's premiums have tripled, everybody's cope has tripled. It's ridiculous
what happens when the government gets involved. And that's all
I'm going to say about politics from here on out,
except to say this, Luigi Vanjoni was not a customer.
(05:33):
He was not insured by United Healthcare. The CEO of
United Healthcare was Brian Thompson. He'd been with the company
for over twenty years. Brian Thompson had worked his way
up in the company, and he was a very wealthy CEO.
Made a good annual salary, had great annual bonuses, and
you know what, there might have been some stock shenanigans
(05:55):
that went on, don't know. I mean, I know what
I read in Forbes, and I know what I've read,
but that had nothing to do with what Luigi Manjoni did.
Still got to figure this out. But the one thing
that we do know so far, Luigi Mangoni grew up
in a very wealthy family. It's a great actually, you know,
(06:19):
in this day and age where we talk about immigrants
in our country, a lot of problems we have politically
illegal immigration. Whenever I look at these great stories of
immigrants who did it the right way, this is one
of those stories. Luigiman Joni's grandfather, his name's Nick Nick
Manjoni was born here. His parents immigrated from Italy, and
Nick Manjoni grew up dirt poor and he made something
(06:43):
of himself in real estate investment. He ended up buying
resorts and golf clubs and anything you can imagine. Became
a very wealthy man. And that extended to his family.
And now here's Luigi, a third generation American, and he
goes to the private Gilman School in Baltimore dollars a
year to go to school there instead of a public school.
(07:04):
He then goes to University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy League school.
By the way, not an idiot. The guy was valedictorian
at Gilman and then at UPN. He has two degrees there.
One is an engineering. He's not an idiot.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I think. Yeah, Actually, there's been a little confusion when
I read. You know how how when you read, if
you look at individuals that have been agreed, and you know,
those of us in academia, you always have to include
your credentials. You know, you always think that there's a
direct correlation between the number of letters that you have
(07:37):
after your name and the bleeding of numbers off of
your IQ. Most of the time, some of the smartest
people I know don't have college degrees. But with his
what I read was when you look at his degree,
one of the ways it was labeled was a b S,
which generally stands for Bachelor of Science and Engineering, and
(08:01):
an m s. Which is a Master of Science in Engineering,
which means that, and I think that his his area
of study was computer science, so computational engineering or whatever
whatever they call it, computer computer engineering or whatever it is.
But he did have like a apparently a fascination like
(08:22):
AI and you know, kind of creating these alternative universes.
And how was it. He's like twenty six six, he's
twenty six and he's still playing. He's still playing with
cartoon characters on his computer. I saw that one comment,
(08:52):
you know, that was made out there where he's creating these,
you know, and I guess that's one of the things
that you do in AI. And you know, no offense
people out there that are creating cartoon characters. I guess
if I could draw bugs money, I would do that
all the time. But uh, it's just, you know, it's
just it's an interesting it's kind of an interesting mix,
(09:13):
you know, in media and in academia, in a lot
of industries. There's a buzzword out there that you used regularly.
You may have heard it before, Dave. It's they say
we're going to silo things now. And what that means
is that you're taken and you were set apart, and
you're siloed. Do this life. This dude led a siloed life.
(09:36):
You know, he's he siloed in on that campus at Penn. Okay,
he was siloed when he was at the Gilman School.
I just like the way that rolls off the tome, right,
Gilman School. You know, it's probably followed, it's preceded by
the word the you know, the Gilman School and then
(09:57):
and then Penn. He siloed there, and you know, I
don't want to go too far down this path. But
you know, dude, you've got quite an exquisite education. But
they've correct me. I'm wrong. You boys living in paradise
part time, right, I mean, he's like he's gone down
(10:20):
this path where he's living. You had mentioned at the
other day it was a term I'd never heard before.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Well, it's like a hippie hot Hawaii commune for those
who want to surf and look at the sun and
talk about books. It was a rest area for people
who are in their twenties. Okay, it's a dorm room
for people who have graduated college but don't actually have
to move on with life and earn a living. And
(10:47):
that's what he had been doing. He'd been in Hawaii
but before we get too far down the road, on
Luigi Mangioni. He did go to Hawaii, but he hurt
his back somewhere along the way. A pinch nerve problem
is in his lower back rather not his neck his lumbar,
and he had surgery on his back. Yeah, and that happened,
(11:12):
and things went downhill for him after the surgery, it
didn't correct his pain issues. He ended up posting a
picture on x that or instagram of his X ray
that showed the bolts that were the screws in his
neck or back wherever it was. It wasn't his lower
back right, His.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Looked like a sacrum lower back. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And so Joe and I both know what back issues
can do to you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I was going to mention that I think that you
and I have that in common, don't.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And watching this guy and I'm thinking it can it
can be really, really bad. And so while a lot
of people immediately hop off of that subject, it's like,
I think it's important to note that I don't know
the level of his chronic pain. I don't know what
medication he's been taking. I don't know, but I will
tell you take the wrong medications. In the right to
take care of a problem, and you do start thinking
(12:03):
wrong and weird, and if you have the intelligence and
the money, a lot of bad things can happen. This
guy had gone so off Grid Luigi Manngoni's mother. She
reported him missing in San Francisco November eighteenth. He had
not been in communication with any family, friends, or anybody
(12:23):
since June. They were looking for him, and less than
ten days before he shows up in New York City,
his mother registers a missing person's thing with police in
San Francisco. So that gives you an idea of this
guy and his family. They were not disconnected, but they
didn't have the kind of contact one would think. I mean,
(12:45):
if you don't know where your son is. And by
the way, they thought he was working for True Car
in San Francisco, and his mother thought that's why she
reported him missing in San Francisco. And it was only
when she got there and they called True Car to
find out about this guy. Hey, he's been going to
come to work and like, no, he hadn't been here
since twenty twenty three. She didn't even know he had
(13:06):
that he didn't work there anymore, and so there was
a there was a disconnect here with him, his family
and his friends. And you said siloed, meaning being by
himself and functioning alone. He's been doing a lot of
that until he showed up at six forty four in
the morning and pulled out a gun printed on a
three D and a three D printer. Do you think
(13:28):
he did that gun shoe? Do you think he printed that?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I don't know. There's still a a lot of speculation
right now. And I, you know, trying to keep up
with this. First off, to own a three D printer
that is at this level, I think maybe maybe that's
not accurate. But in order to facilitate a functional weapon,
(13:51):
and we can go into this and I will promise,
but you would it's something that would stand out. You
would have to have a place where you could facilitate
this and hang on to it and you know, create
this and many times it's not many times when you
(14:13):
print these things off. It's I have heard at least
that sometimes the first time is not the charm. You
have to work at this to get it right, you know,
in order to get this thing right, because if you
have what's referred to as the lower receiver, which in
(14:33):
this case, the lower if you, if folks at home
will just just if you think about gripping a pistol. Okay. Now,
this is on the body frame of a clock, okay,
which is by nature it's it's the first polymer uh
weapon that was ever introduced, all right. It's famous for that,
(14:53):
all right, as an Austrian made weapon. Uh. They're carried
all over the world. Law enforce agencies all over the
place carry them, certain military groups carry them. But it
was like the first polymer weapon, and there was a
big stink over it. I remember years ago. Well, if
these people are going to be running around with these
(15:13):
glocks and they make it through metal detectors, the whole
weapon is not polymer, all right. And that's where it
comes in with him, because he would he has created
apparently allegedly the lower receiver which is the actual grip okay,
and then the body where the trigger housing is. You
(15:36):
have to go and still purchase after market individual elements
of this weapon that would fit for the type of weapon.
And I'm not saying that this is what it is.
But let's just take for instance, a glock seventeen. Thelock
seventeen is an older glock. I've been around for a
long time, and it's it's chambered in a nine millimeter,
(16:00):
and we do know that it is a non millimeter
and so if you take that, you would have to
go out and buy the metallic slide that goes on
the top where the guts of the weapon are. The
charging hand, well, that's an old that's my army self talking.
That's from back in the day with them sixteen's. But
the slide itself which you would use to charge the
(16:20):
weapon in order to ram that round into the chamber.
And then you have to have the trigger mechanism too,
that's spot separately, and you have to have the barrel
that's bought separately. The problem with these weapons for law
enforcement is that if you when you buy these things,
(16:43):
I don't have serial numbers on them, none of them. None.
And that's the big that's the rub. And they're not
illegal to possess. So if you're trying to track a
weapon that may have been used in an offense, okay,
you're not going to be able to trace it through
(17:04):
a serial number necessarily because there are no serial numbers
all right, Because each one of these components is ordered
and purchased separately. I'm thinking that in the days and
the weeks to come, we're going to find out more.
But I think that one of the big tails here, Dave,
is that And one of the more interesting parts of
(17:26):
this is that not only did he have a ghost gun,
as they say, he also had a suppressor as well
that had been three D modeled and created. And that's
the rub. He knew that he could go out in
(17:48):
the early morning hours when New York. If you've ever
been there at that time of day when it's just
starting to wake up and I've walked down the streets
before and the sun hasn't quite made it up yet.
You can see a lot of vendors that are driving
around deliveries those sorts of things. You can you can
hear horns honking in the distance, but you don't hear
(18:09):
screaming yet and shouting. The city is still asleep. But
he had this suppressed weapon and he fired it and
apparently it didn't draw much attention, and of course that
may have been his goal along, Dave. You know, we've
(18:42):
don't I don't know if you if you remember this,
you probably you're going to remember when I say it,
we've you and I have covered a couple of assassins
on this on on body backs. Now, there are some
out there that are in fact murderers that we have covered.
I guess you could technically call them assassins. And most
the time when you hear assassin or assassination, it's generally
(19:05):
it's generally plugged into people like John Wilkes Booth or
Lee Harvey Oswald or Brutus which is be a Caesar
or one of my favorite episodes. Again I'm partial relative
to Julius Caesar's autopsy, but you know, Dave, they have
used they have used the term over and over again assassin,
(19:28):
you know, in this case. And yeah, I guess you
could say that this is an assassination. However, they're murders
that take place every day that are actually assassinations. I guess.
So I think, and this is more rhetorical. I sit
here and I think, well, what delineas between an assassination
(19:49):
and a murder. One of the big problems with JFK
case is that they treated it like it was not
a murder. They treated as if it was an assassination.
And of course they took their off the ball with
the case. I'm hoping that's not going to be the
case here that you've classified it in some other way
because the word assassination keeps coming up. Well, yes, it's
(20:10):
a murder, it's a cold blooded murder.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think I have to add myself to the part
of that because I heard it mentioned as an assassination.
Because the reason is because the person who was murdered
was the CEO of a company, a company that handles
insurance for forty nine percent of the American population. So
this is the CEO of a very powerful, powerful company
(20:37):
that impacts almost half of our lives. So he is,
in that regard somebody that would not be just murdered,
but he was taken out for a reason. It was
like Luigi Mangoni was not just doing it for himself.
He was doing it for all of you know, mankind
or whatever. I'm not saying that that was what he
was thinking. I'm saying that's kind of out of the
way it's been positioned. And when you look at some
(21:00):
of the tracking that's taking place on social media, there
are people that are already talking about jury nullification. Yeah,
and it's just beyond the pale. The bottom line is
Luigi Mangoni is accused of planning the murder of an individual.
A father, Brian Thompson, married, father of two now. He
(21:23):
and his wife, Paula had been married for two decades.
They met in college. They both had similar backgrounds. She
has been her own career working with physical adjustments of
individuals and things like that. She's a very educated woman,
very polished. They have two teenage sons and they were
going through a separation. They had separated in Minnesota, where
(21:44):
they lived. The movement of houses was not that great,
and Brian Thompson was still living close enough to be
active in his children, again they're teenage boys, but to
be active in their daily life. But he was in
New York for a business meeting. You know, it's the
time of year where you're sharing the financials for your company.
(22:06):
He was not staying at the hotel that was hosting
the conference. He was actually staying at another one and
was walking into that hotel just before seven am to
get ready for the conference. Now, Luigi Manjoni knew what
the schedule was, and he had to have known that
(22:26):
Brian Thompson was going to be getting there earlier than
the eight am start of the conference. I think pretty
much anybody that follows along a person's activities. Would know
they're not going to show up right at the time
to walk through the door and go on stage, but
to be.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
There because you know, I have to go to these conferences.
If you've never been to one of these things.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
You sound disgusted when you say it.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I find it tedious sometimes. You know, crom CON's one
thing because there's luck an energy there. You know, when
you go to when you go to anything that's related
directly related to like a job that you have, like
academic conferences, there's old friends that you want to see.
But it's like, Okay, what's the next session going to be?
(23:16):
And you go to a series of sessions and but
this is kind of again a siloed event where this
is for this company, So there's it's not just a
matter of him being there to be prepped to speak,
(23:36):
which I think he was. He was one of the
featured speakers as well he should have been, but it's
there's also a bit of politicking that's going to go
on as well. You know, where you get to all
the division heads or sitting around you drinking coffee or
eating danish or whatever it is, maybe he's going to
go in there and eat breakfast. I have no idea,
And then you know he's going to hit the schedule.
(23:57):
And of course before you do that, you always go
in and I know you've seen this, Dave. You know,
you go in because you've had to prep people for this.
You go into a big room and you want to
make sure your av is going to work. They're going
to test everything, you know, all those sorts of things.
And maybe maybe that was part of it, maybe just
going to walk around with the mic, and it's I
have no idea, but you know you're there for a reason,
and if you're the boss, you damn world better be
(24:20):
visible and be at every single thing. Because they're stockholders there.
They want to know that you have a presence and
that you're actually invested. And so I think that anybody
that was looking to do harm to him, Dave, they
may have an awareness of that. They may know that, Look,
if if I'm going to destroy this man, he's going
(24:45):
to have to be here. There will there's a guarantee
that his presence will be here, you know. And it
really made me think about when Lennon was killed, you know,
and you know his assassin. They use the term assassin
would and remember he you know the infamous photograph of
him actually handing over the album for him side and
(25:08):
then he's back there. Yeah, I mean he's back there again.
So he's kind of casing the joint, if you will,
and shows it prep. He shows up prep to the
extent that he had a weapon. But dude, allegedly MANGIONI,
he didn't just show up with a weapon, man, I
mean he's got you know, he's got everything that he
(25:30):
needs at this point in time. There was some question
if he had layered clothing in order to change clothing,
you know, to And I've seen this in cases before,
particularly in the drug world, where you will have people
that are out to kill somebody and they will layer
clothing on and as they're fleeing, they'll begin to strip
clothing off and they're throwing it away as they're doing it.
(25:50):
You see guys that would have jeans on and they
would strip out and they'd have sweatpants on. Underneath, they'd
have a bright colored jacket. Because if you can say
that guy's got an orange I saw him. He had
an orange shack and on he rips it off and
he's got like a blue sweatshirt on underneath it. He
doesn't look anything like that. So at first I'm thinking, well,
(26:11):
that's what's going on, and he's got this. They made
a big deal out of this backpack that he had
as well, and so there's been a lot of thought
that has gone into this day.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Well, what we do know is that Luigi Mangioni had
gone by, picked up a bottle of water, cup of coffee,
a nutrition bar of some kind, and had a cell
phone on him because they found remnants of all of
these in an alleyway near where he was going to
take the shot. Now, as Brian Thompson is walking into
(26:43):
the hotel, I made the mistake of saying he was
killed in broad daylight. And the reason I said broad
daylight is well, the sun wasn't up, it was active,
busy just before seven am. Say time to me, and
he was shot in front of people. And I actually
made the comment to somebody they're showing this. I had
never actually seen what we saw when it came to
(27:05):
the murder of Brian Thompson.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Where shock It was shocking to me because it and
now they pulled back on that media has because the
first day afterwards they played the whole thing. You can
see this man stumble.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And my heirst thing was I got to get Joe
to tell me what happened, because this is the first
time we're not getting the blurred image. We actually see
him stumble. As you mentioned, he got shot twice. But
when you see it in real time, Joe, it happened bam,
bam fast. He's gone, He's falling down and the gun
is this way, and people. There were so many things
(27:41):
said right away, eyewitness stuff. We had the silencer idea,
then we had the veterinary gun idea, and then came
back to the silencer after he was found. But the
bottom line is that Luigi Mangioni was lying in wait
for Brian Thompson. We've had the lying in wait story
many times with Jared briding income to mind where they lay, yeah,
(28:02):
and in this case, he knew where Brian Thompson was
coming from and knew where he was going to go in.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
There's actually another weapon that was involved in this too.
There were all kinds of people that were out there
speculating on the fact that this was a World War
two air special stamped metal weapon. I think the Brits
had made it a well, what was it called anyway,
and come back to that. But anyway, it works in
(28:29):
the same fashion, or it works in the same fashion
as the vet gun did. But now they're saying it's
not like the vet gun because that thing you have
to actually the slide on it and you can see
him clearing the weapon. And with the vet gun there's
it's got like a rolling bolt in it where you
(28:50):
have to literally there's a little knob on the back
of the scene where you have to spin it around. Well,
that vet gun evolved from that original suppressed weapon, and
that thing was all one piece that they had made,
and they were easy to make, they were cheap to make.
It was a suppressed weapon. By the way, Just so
(29:12):
that everybody's listening, I don't like the word silencer because
there's silencer implies that things are silent, and there is
no such thing as silentio when it comes to comes
to a weapon. That's why I stick with suppressor because
it knocks down the sound, but you'll never get it
(29:33):
like how many times, Dave, do you remember when we
were kids and they would always have these in the sixties,
Remember somebody would you know, put a suppressor on a weapon,
and you'd hear that little pink sound like that of
the weapon. Listen, if you've got a suppressed nine milimeter,
it's not going to go pink like that. It's it'll
(29:56):
have a more robust sound than that. Okay, it's not
going to down the sound to that point, but it does.
It does a couple of interesting things though, when that,
When anytime you introduce a suppressor into a weapon, first off,
it can cause you can see you can actually see
the action of the weapon is affected. And what I
(30:19):
mean by that when the weapon is discharged, it can't
compromise the weapon's ability because you have a reduction in
the power of the weapon because of the suppressor. To
get the weapon to cycle, so you might have to
clear it multiple times. Do you see how smooth he
was with that? By the way, I think he was practiced.
(30:40):
Now I'm not saying he's a professional a professional gunner here,
all right, I'm not saying that, But he knew. I
think he probably understood the limitations of that weapon because
and he transitioned. One of the things that you can tell,
well when you go to the I'm not a good shot,
(31:02):
and I've had been having a fire weapons since I
was a kid, uh and certainly qualifying with weapons. I
was always a bag of nerves. I was never good
at My eyesight as horrible. So if I just got
like in the army, I think I got like a marksman.
I was fine with that. I never had a desire
to be an expert at anything as an intel guy.
(31:22):
So it's like I could shoot in the general. Give
me a shot, you guys, you know. So it was
like I had I had no desire. I had to
qualify with my weapon, you know, because at the m's
office and in the corner's office. In the worlds, we
all cared weapons. You had to go to qualification, you know,
twice a year. I was always nervous and so but
you can when you go to a range and you
(31:44):
see somebody that is very proficient, you know they practice
with a weapon. There's a silky smoothness to it and
they never get rattled. And when you watch him shoot.
One of the big things is when you're talking about
acquisition of a target, it's called maintaining your site picture.
(32:07):
So that weapon has no special optics on it. From
what I can see, like one of those little red
dot sits on the top of it. It's not. So
he's using the iron sights that are built into the
slide of a glock, which on the backside is kind
of a you or a V shape, you know, kind
of housing on the back that's on the top, and
then you'll have a post in the front. Sometimes they're illuminated,
(32:29):
sometimes they're not. You'll have a little glowing dot and
you're supposed to create what's called a site picture. Well,
one of the problems with this is that every time
a weapon misfires or you have to clear it, you
have to reacquire your sight picture, and it makes people nervous.
Particularly I can only imagine I've never had to shoot
(32:50):
at moving targets like this a human when if you're
in a rush and you're trying to do this, it
would make it turns you into Barney five if you're
fumbling with a weapon all the while, he might not
completely get it to clear. You can't have what's referred
(33:12):
to as a stovepipe, where as you're trying to cycle
through the ejection. The cycling process gets so screwed up.
First off, this is a three D printed weapon, or
at least the lower receiver is, and you've got a
suppressor that has allegedly been three D. There's all kinds
of catastrophes that could happen here. But Dave, I got
(33:35):
to tell you, watching the person in that image, I'm
not saying it's him. I'm not saying it's him, But
watching that person in that image, he was silky smooth.
I mean, he truly was. When you see him try
to clear that weapon over and over again, and then
he walks by, he discharges that weapon one more time
(33:57):
before he disappears off to the left out frame, you know.
And that's what to me, that's what made it so chilling,
because you could tell that this person, at least in
a very broad sess, knew what they were doing. That
tells me that they've practiced where that weapon. Doesn't mean
that they're a marksman by any shape, That doesn't mean
(34:18):
certainly that they're an expert. It just means that they understand.
They understand what the capabilities are lack of capabilities of
this thing are.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
So he's able to lie in wait patiently for Brian Thompson.
As Brian Thompson is coming into the hotel, the accused
Luigi Mangioni steps out and mentioned this minute ago. It's
the first time many of us have actually seen what
really happens when someone is shot. Oftentimes it's so blurry,
(34:50):
but we never we just don't usually have this. I
mentioned at some point I felt like we were taking
part in a snuff film by watching that, and I
mentioned to a friend of mine that there was some
thought back in the day of the David Berkowitz, the
son of Sam, that they were making snuff films.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Then I've heard that before, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
And that was my thought with this. A snuff film
is a set up murder to be filmed for people
to get their jollys off. And watching Brian Thompson be
murdered on it just was too much. But I want you, Joe,
to describe for us what we saw, because to me,
we get this. We see people in movies and on
TV they get shot and they go falling into a
(35:32):
building or you know, but if you actually watch what
really takes place, it's different. And watching Brian Thompson's reaction
reactions to being shot, there is a very specific thing
that he is doing physically with the first shot, second shot,
and then he falls and I'm wondering at what point
(35:56):
or is there a way that you can know what
was happening to his body internally as this was going
on in a very brief number of seconds that passed.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah. Hard, it's kind of hard to to kind of
sort that. I think there is a graininess that comes
along with this. I'm grateful that they have it, don't
get me wrong, but you're not. And even if it
was h D quality, you know, I think that some
(36:25):
people think that when an individual shot, you're going to
have this kind of explosive event that takes place. I
have work cases day where I've had individuals that have
been shot through clothing and I had to search to
find the entrance wound because there's not necessarily going to
be a copious amount of blood that you're going to see.
(36:50):
The blood might be all contained within within that element
of the body, whether it's the thigh, the calf, or
even the back, but it particularly in the immediate and
so you get it and depend upon how the person rests.
I'll give you for example, if someone is shot, say
in the back of their thighs, so post to your thigh,
(37:13):
they're hit and let's say the round doesn't exit, okay,
and they fall down face forward, all right, So they're
shot in the post here thigh, that blood is not
going to drain out of that hole or that defect
like it would if they were face up having been
(37:33):
shot in the back. You see what I'm saying, and
the gravity will literally and not to mention Dave, he didn't.
My money is on it. I don't have any proof
of this. I don't think he died like instantaneously. All right,
we'll see, we'll see. I'll couch my bets on that.
But I'm just saying I don't necessarily know that he
(37:54):
died instantaneously. The only wounds that at the time of this,
of this tape that we know of he shot in
the leg and he shot in the back is essentially
And I've heard some people saying back and chest, Well,
a brief anatomy lesson here your posterior You have a
(38:15):
posterior chest. So if you place your hands between your
shoulder blades, you might not be aware of this, but
in the medical context, that's your posterior chest. Some people say, oh,
that's my back, It is your back, but we don't
in anatomical terms, medical terms, they don't refer to that
(38:37):
as your back, that's your posterior chest. Okay, So if
he shot in the posterior chest and he goes down
into a prone position, which means face down I hate
that term, face down, and it didn't exit out of him,
then you know you're not going to have like maybe
(38:59):
necessarily a copious amount of blood at that point. Now,
once he slipped over and they start CPR on him
and ems rolls out, you're going to see as they're
doing chest compressions and all this stuff. But here's the thing, Dave.
To this point, and I don't know that we will
get one anytime soon. We don't have our eyes on
(39:20):
an autopsy report. But what I do know is that
he was purposed. He showed up. The assassin showed up,
I'll use that term, with a weapon, a weapon that
was meant to be concealed, not just visibly, but more
(39:42):
importantly from the report of the sound. And he certainly
showed up with the right type of ammunition. I'm Joseph
Scott Morgan and this is body backs
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Tho
Body does, but Joseph's gotten more. I don't know that
anyone out there would actually admit to being spoiled when
they were a child. You like to think that you
weren't spoiled, and I was not spoiled by my mother. However,
(00:22):
the one person in my life that did spoil me
was my grandmother. Her name's Pearl, by the way, if
you haven't read my memoir, talk about her a lot,
and of course, still to this day, I think that
she was an angel on earth. And I hate to
tie this back to materialism, but grandmothers are interesting creatures
(00:47):
to say, and the reason they are is that if
they have a grandchild that they dote upon, and I
was the only one at that time, you knew that
there was always a trip to the toy store in
your future, and for me, the toy store and I'm
really going back in time here. The toy store that
we always went to was T.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
G and Y.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Many people have never heard that name before. There was
also Ben Franklin. There were several of them. These places
don't exist anymore, but those trips would consistently end in
me reaping the benefit of being spoiled because my grandmother
would buy me anything that I'd want off of those shelves,
(01:32):
and she didn't have a lot of money. But my
favorite toy to get was any new toy pistol that
they had, and it could be one of those Star
Trek pistols that she's the little plastic disc. Always dig those.
I love those things. You could stack them inside. Look
that up if you've never seen it, and of course
(01:53):
they will fall back. A cap pistol was always lovely.
And they did have a semblance back then of these
guns that would kind of shoot these padded darts, not
quite as sophisticated as the ones today. Always love those pistols.
But the thing about it is, even as a small child,
(02:14):
I could feel the weight of it. Didn't feel like
the guns that my grandfather had heavy metal. They had
substance to them today though, I'm going to talk about
another gun. I'm going to talk about a gun that
is essentially made from a type of plastic polymer actually,
(02:39):
and that weapon, acquired allegedly by one individual and held
in that individual's hand and used to assassinate an individual
on the streets of Manhattan, has created let's say, havoc
(03:00):
around the nation for these past few days. We're going
to talk about the assassination in the early morning hours
of CEO Brian Thompson and the alleged perpetrator, Luigi man Jonny.
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs brother Dave.
(03:29):
You know, look, we we will catch cases. I'm talking
to you like I'm talking to a fellow investigator. We've
said all the time, we caught a case. So but
for us, in the world that we inhabit, we do
catch cases that you know, people use term zeitgeist and
(03:50):
things like that, and this is not a zeitgeist thing.
It's just whatever's kind of pulsing through the veins of
the media at any moment in time. But there are
those cases that, day after day after day, we're going
to cover him. And when I say we, I mean
you to a greater extent than I because you are
Nancy Grace's right hand man. You're having to put all
(04:13):
of this stuff together. I just want to add, first off,
I want to check it. Are you okay? All right?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It's been an exhausting we you know in that You're right,
we have covered it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
But I was.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Luigi Mangioni is a twenty six year old rich kid.
And when you mentioned spoiled, and I thought, I know
how Joe was spoiled. It was with love and a granny.
It wasn't spoiled like this guy was spoiled, Although he
was spoiled with love and a granny too. There's a
lot of love in the Mangoni household, but there was
also a lot of money. But his wealth and some
(04:48):
of the things that he has said in his manifesto
leads you to believe that he's something other than what
he is. And I don't know if he is. I
don't know. We'll find out, But yes, I am pretty
exhausted with this story, and rightly so. How many of
us today have had issues with health care insurance ever
(05:09):
since the government got involved? Quick, raise your hands. Everybody has.
Everybody's premiums have tripled, everybody's cope has tripled. It's ridiculous
what happens when the government gets involved. And that's all
I'm going to say about politics from here on out,
except to say this, Luigi Vanjoni was not a customer.
(05:33):
He was not insured by United Healthcare. The CEO of
United Healthcare was Brian Thompson. He'd been with the company
for over twenty years. Brian Thompson had worked his way
up in the company, and he was a very wealthy CEO.
Made a good annual salary, had great annual bonuses, and
you know what, there might have been some stock shenanigans
(05:55):
that went on, don't know. I mean, I know what
I read in Forbes, and I know what I've read,
but that had nothing to do with what Luigi Manjoni did.
Still got to figure this out. But the one thing
that we do know so far, Luigi Mangoni grew up
in a very wealthy family. It's a great actually, you know,
(06:19):
in this day and age where we talk about immigrants
in our country, a lot of problems we have politically
illegal immigration. Whenever I look at these great stories of
immigrants who did it the right way, this is one
of those stories. Luigiman Joni's grandfather, his name's Nick Nick
Manjoni was born here. His parents immigrated from Italy, and
Nick Manjoni grew up dirt poor and he made something
(06:43):
of himself in real estate investment. He ended up buying
resorts and golf clubs and anything you can imagine. Became
a very wealthy man. And that extended to his family.
And now here's Luigi, a third generation American, and he
goes to the private Gilman School in Baltimore dollars a
year to go to school there instead of a public school.
(07:04):
He then goes to University of Pennsylvania, an Ivy League school.
By the way, not an idiot. The guy was valedictorian
at Gilman and then at UPN. He has two degrees there.
One is an engineering. He's not an idiot.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I think. Yeah, Actually, there's been a little confusion when
I read. You know how how when you read, if
you look at individuals that have been agreed, and you know,
those of us in academia, you always have to include
your credentials. You know, you always think that there's a
direct correlation between the number of letters that you have
(07:37):
after your name and the bleeding of numbers off of
your IQ. Most of the time, some of the smartest
people I know don't have college degrees. But with his
what I read was when you look at his degree,
one of the ways it was labeled was a b S,
which generally stands for Bachelor of Science and Engineering, and
(08:01):
an m s. Which is a Master of Science in Engineering,
which means that, and I think that his his area
of study was computer science, so computational engineering or whatever
whatever they call it, computer computer engineering or whatever it is.
But he did have like a apparently a fascination like
(08:22):
AI and you know, kind of creating these alternative universes.
And how was it. He's like twenty six six, he's
twenty six and he's still playing. He's still playing with
cartoon characters on his computer. I saw that one comment,
(08:52):
you know, that was made out there where he's creating these,
you know, and I guess that's one of the things
that you do in AI. And you know, no offense
people out there that are creating cartoon characters. I guess
if I could draw bugs money, I would do that
all the time. But uh, it's just, you know, it's
just it's an interesting it's kind of an interesting mix,
(09:13):
you know, in media and in academia, in a lot
of industries. There's a buzzword out there that you used regularly.
You may have heard it before, Dave. It's they say
we're going to silo things now. And what that means
is that you're taken and you were set apart, and
you're siloed. Do this life. This dude led a siloed life.
(09:36):
You know, he's he siloed in on that campus at Penn. Okay,
he was siloed when he was at the Gilman School.
I just like the way that rolls off the tome, right,
Gilman School. You know, it's probably followed, it's preceded by
the word the you know, the Gilman School and then
(09:57):
and then Penn. He siloed there, and you know, I
don't want to go too far down this path. But
you know, dude, you've got quite an exquisite education. But
they've correct me. I'm wrong. You boys living in paradise
part time, right, I mean, he's like he's gone down
(10:20):
this path where he's living. You had mentioned at the
other day it was a term I'd never heard before.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Well, it's like a hippie hot Hawaii commune for those
who want to surf and look at the sun and
talk about books. It was a rest area for people
who are in their twenties. Okay, it's a dorm room
for people who have graduated college but don't actually have
to move on with life and earn a living. And
(10:47):
that's what he had been doing. He'd been in Hawaii
but before we get too far down the road, on
Luigi Mangioni. He did go to Hawaii, but he hurt
his back somewhere along the way. A pinch nerve problem
is in his lower back rather not his neck his lumbar,
and he had surgery on his back. Yeah, and that happened,
(11:12):
and things went downhill for him after the surgery, it
didn't correct his pain issues. He ended up posting a
picture on x that or instagram of his X ray
that showed the bolts that were the screws in his
neck or back wherever it was. It wasn't his lower
back right, His.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Looked like a sacrum lower back. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
And so Joe and I both know what back issues
can do to you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I was going to mention that I think that you
and I have that in common, don't.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And watching this guy and I'm thinking it can it
can be really, really bad. And so while a lot
of people immediately hop off of that subject, it's like,
I think it's important to note that I don't know
the level of his chronic pain. I don't know what
medication he's been taking. I don't know, but I will
tell you take the wrong medications. In the right to
take care of a problem, and you do start thinking
(12:03):
wrong and weird, and if you have the intelligence and
the money, a lot of bad things can happen. This
guy had gone so off Grid Luigi Manngoni's mother. She
reported him missing in San Francisco November eighteenth. He had
not been in communication with any family, friends, or anybody
(12:23):
since June. They were looking for him, and less than
ten days before he shows up in New York City,
his mother registers a missing person's thing with police in
San Francisco. So that gives you an idea of this
guy and his family. They were not disconnected, but they
didn't have the kind of contact one would think. I mean,
(12:45):
if you don't know where your son is. And by
the way, they thought he was working for True Car
in San Francisco, and his mother thought that's why she
reported him missing in San Francisco. And it was only
when she got there and they called True Car to
find out about this guy. Hey, he's been going to
come to work and like, no, he hadn't been here
since twenty twenty three. She didn't even know he had
(13:06):
that he didn't work there anymore, and so there was
a there was a disconnect here with him, his family
and his friends. And you said siloed, meaning being by
himself and functioning alone. He's been doing a lot of
that until he showed up at six forty four in
the morning and pulled out a gun printed on a
three D and a three D printer. Do you think
(13:28):
he did that gun shoe? Do you think he printed that?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I don't know. There's still a a lot of speculation
right now. And I, you know, trying to keep up
with this. First off, to own a three D printer
that is at this level, I think maybe maybe that's
not accurate. But in order to facilitate a functional weapon,
(13:51):
and we can go into this and I will promise,
but you would it's something that would stand out. You
would have to have a place where you could facilitate
this and hang on to it and you know, create
this and many times it's not many times when you
(14:13):
print these things off. It's I have heard at least
that sometimes the first time is not the charm. You
have to work at this to get it right, you know,
in order to get this thing right, because if you
have what's referred to as the lower receiver, which in
(14:33):
this case, the lower if you, if folks at home
will just just if you think about gripping a pistol. Okay. Now,
this is on the body frame of a clock, okay,
which is by nature it's it's the first polymer uh
weapon that was ever introduced, all right. It's famous for that,
(14:53):
all right, as an Austrian made weapon. Uh. They're carried
all over the world. Law enforce agencies all over the
place carry them, certain military groups carry them. But it
was like the first polymer weapon, and there was a
big stink over it. I remember years ago. Well, if
these people are going to be running around with these
(15:13):
glocks and they make it through metal detectors, the whole
weapon is not polymer, all right. And that's where it
comes in with him, because he would he has created
apparently allegedly the lower receiver which is the actual grip okay,
and then the body where the trigger housing is. You
(15:36):
have to go and still purchase after market individual elements
of this weapon that would fit for the type of weapon.
And I'm not saying that this is what it is.
But let's just take for instance, a glock seventeen. Thelock
seventeen is an older glock. I've been around for a
long time, and it's it's chambered in a nine millimeter,
(16:00):
and we do know that it is a non millimeter
and so if you take that, you would have to
go out and buy the metallic slide that goes on
the top where the guts of the weapon are. The
charging hand, well, that's an old that's my army self talking.
That's from back in the day with them sixteen's. But
the slide itself which you would use to charge the
(16:20):
weapon in order to ram that round into the chamber.
And then you have to have the trigger mechanism too,
that's spot separately, and you have to have the barrel
that's bought separately. The problem with these weapons for law
enforcement is that if you when you buy these things,
(16:43):
I don't have serial numbers on them, none of them. None.
And that's the big that's the rub. And they're not
illegal to possess. So if you're trying to track a
weapon that may have been used in an offense, okay,
you're not going to be able to trace it through
(17:04):
a serial number necessarily because there are no serial numbers
all right, Because each one of these components is ordered
and purchased separately. I'm thinking that in the days and
the weeks to come, we're going to find out more.
But I think that one of the big tails here, Dave,
is that And one of the more interesting parts of
(17:26):
this is that not only did he have a ghost gun,
as they say, he also had a suppressor as well
that had been three D modeled and created. And that's
the rub. He knew that he could go out in
(17:48):
the early morning hours when New York. If you've ever
been there at that time of day when it's just
starting to wake up and I've walked down the streets
before and the sun hasn't quite made it up yet.
You can see a lot of vendors that are driving
around deliveries those sorts of things. You can you can
hear horns honking in the distance, but you don't hear
(18:09):
screaming yet and shouting. The city is still asleep. But
he had this suppressed weapon and he fired it and
apparently it didn't draw much attention, and of course that
may have been his goal along, Dave. You know, we've
(18:42):
don't I don't know if you if you remember this,
you probably you're going to remember when I say it,
we've you and I have covered a couple of assassins
on this on on body backs. Now, there are some
out there that are in fact murderers that we have covered.
I guess you could technically call them assassins. And most
the time when you hear assassin or assassination, it's generally
(19:05):
it's generally plugged into people like John Wilkes Booth or
Lee Harvey Oswald or Brutus which is be a Caesar
or one of my favorite episodes. Again I'm partial relative
to Julius Caesar's autopsy, but you know, Dave, they have
used they have used the term over and over again assassin,
(19:28):
you know, in this case. And yeah, I guess you
could say that this is an assassination. However, they're murders
that take place every day that are actually assassinations. I guess.
So I think, and this is more rhetorical. I sit
here and I think, well, what delineas between an assassination
(19:49):
and a murder. One of the big problems with JFK
case is that they treated it like it was not
a murder. They treated as if it was an assassination.
And of course they took their off the ball with
the case. I'm hoping that's not going to be the
case here that you've classified it in some other way
because the word assassination keeps coming up. Well, yes, it's
(20:10):
a murder, it's a cold blooded murder.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think I have to add myself to the part
of that because I heard it mentioned as an assassination.
Because the reason is because the person who was murdered
was the CEO of a company, a company that handles
insurance for forty nine percent of the American population. So
this is the CEO of a very powerful, powerful company
(20:37):
that impacts almost half of our lives. So he is,
in that regard somebody that would not be just murdered,
but he was taken out for a reason. It was
like Luigi Mangoni was not just doing it for himself.
He was doing it for all of you know, mankind
or whatever. I'm not saying that that was what he
was thinking. I'm saying that's kind of out of the
way it's been positioned. And when you look at some
(21:00):
of the tracking that's taking place on social media, there
are people that are already talking about jury nullification. Yeah,
and it's just beyond the pale. The bottom line is
Luigi Mangoni is accused of planning the murder of an individual.
A father, Brian Thompson, married, father of two now. He
(21:23):
and his wife, Paula had been married for two decades.
They met in college. They both had similar backgrounds. She
has been her own career working with physical adjustments of
individuals and things like that. She's a very educated woman,
very polished. They have two teenage sons and they were
going through a separation. They had separated in Minnesota, where
(21:44):
they lived. The movement of houses was not that great,
and Brian Thompson was still living close enough to be
active in his children, again they're teenage boys, but to
be active in their daily life. But he was in
New York for a business meeting. You know, it's the
time of year where you're sharing the financials for your company.
(22:06):
He was not staying at the hotel that was hosting
the conference. He was actually staying at another one and
was walking into that hotel just before seven am to
get ready for the conference. Now, Luigi Manjoni knew what
the schedule was, and he had to have known that
(22:26):
Brian Thompson was going to be getting there earlier than
the eight am start of the conference. I think pretty
much anybody that follows along a person's activities. Would know
they're not going to show up right at the time
to walk through the door and go on stage, but
to be.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
There because you know, I have to go to these conferences.
If you've never been to one of these things.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
You sound disgusted when you say it.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I find it tedious sometimes. You know, crom CON's one
thing because there's luck an energy there. You know, when
you go to when you go to anything that's related
directly related to like a job that you have, like
academic conferences, there's old friends that you want to see.
But it's like, Okay, what's the next session going to be?
(23:16):
And you go to a series of sessions and but
this is kind of again a siloed event where this
is for this company, So there's it's not just a
matter of him being there to be prepped to speak,
(23:36):
which I think he was. He was one of the
featured speakers as well he should have been, but it's
there's also a bit of politicking that's going to go
on as well. You know, where you get to all
the division heads or sitting around you drinking coffee or
eating danish or whatever it is, maybe he's going to
go in there and eat breakfast. I have no idea,
And then you know he's going to hit the schedule.
(23:57):
And of course before you do that, you always go
in and I know you've seen this, Dave. You know,
you go in because you've had to prep people for this.
You go into a big room and you want to
make sure your av is going to work. They're going
to test everything, you know, all those sorts of things.
And maybe maybe that was part of it, maybe just
going to walk around with the mic, and it's I
have no idea, but you know you're there for a reason,
and if you're the boss, you damn world better be
(24:20):
visible and be at every single thing. Because they're stockholders there.
They want to know that you have a presence and
that you're actually invested. And so I think that anybody
that was looking to do harm to him, Dave, they
may have an awareness of that. They may know that, Look,
if if I'm going to destroy this man, he's going
(24:45):
to have to be here. There will there's a guarantee
that his presence will be here, you know. And it
really made me think about when Lennon was killed, you know,
and you know his assassin. They use the term assassin
would and remember he you know the infamous photograph of
him actually handing over the album for him side and
(25:08):
then he's back there. Yeah, I mean he's back there again.
So he's kind of casing the joint, if you will,
and shows it prep. He shows up prep to the
extent that he had a weapon. But dude, allegedly MANGIONI,
he didn't just show up with a weapon, man, I
mean he's got you know, he's got everything that he
(25:30):
needs at this point in time. There was some question
if he had layered clothing in order to change clothing,
you know, to And I've seen this in cases before,
particularly in the drug world, where you will have people
that are out to kill somebody and they will layer
clothing on and as they're fleeing, they'll begin to strip
clothing off and they're throwing it away as they're doing it.
(25:50):
You see guys that would have jeans on and they
would strip out and they'd have sweatpants on. Underneath, they'd
have a bright colored jacket. Because if you can say
that guy's got an orange I saw him. He had
an orange shack and on he rips it off and
he's got like a blue sweatshirt on underneath it. He
doesn't look anything like that. So at first I'm thinking, well,
(26:11):
that's what's going on, and he's got this. They made
a big deal out of this backpack that he had
as well, and so there's been a lot of thought
that has gone into this day.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Well, what we do know is that Luigi Mangioni had
gone by, picked up a bottle of water, cup of coffee,
a nutrition bar of some kind, and had a cell
phone on him because they found remnants of all of
these in an alleyway near where he was going to
take the shot. Now, as Brian Thompson is walking into
(26:43):
the hotel, I made the mistake of saying he was
killed in broad daylight. And the reason I said broad
daylight is well, the sun wasn't up, it was active,
busy just before seven am. Say time to me, and
he was shot in front of people. And I actually
made the comment to somebody they're showing this. I had
never actually seen what we saw when it came to
(27:05):
the murder of Brian Thompson.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Where shock It was shocking to me because it and
now they pulled back on that media has because the
first day afterwards they played the whole thing. You can
see this man stumble.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And my heirst thing was I got to get Joe
to tell me what happened, because this is the first
time we're not getting the blurred image. We actually see
him stumble. As you mentioned, he got shot twice. But
when you see it in real time, Joe, it happened bam,
bam fast. He's gone, He's falling down and the gun
is this way, and people. There were so many things
(27:41):
said right away, eyewitness stuff. We had the silencer idea,
then we had the veterinary gun idea, and then came
back to the silencer after he was found. But the
bottom line is that Luigi Mangioni was lying in wait
for Brian Thompson. We've had the lying in wait story
many times with Jared briding income to mind where they lay, yeah,
(28:02):
and in this case, he knew where Brian Thompson was
coming from and knew where he was going to go in.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
There's actually another weapon that was involved in this too.
There were all kinds of people that were out there
speculating on the fact that this was a World War
two air special stamped metal weapon. I think the Brits
had made it a well, what was it called anyway,
and come back to that. But anyway, it works in
(28:29):
the same fashion, or it works in the same fashion
as the vet gun did. But now they're saying it's
not like the vet gun because that thing you have
to actually the slide on it and you can see
him clearing the weapon. And with the vet gun there's
it's got like a rolling bolt in it where you
(28:50):
have to literally there's a little knob on the back
of the scene where you have to spin it around. Well,
that vet gun evolved from that original suppressed weapon, and
that thing was all one piece that they had made,
and they were easy to make, they were cheap to make.
It was a suppressed weapon. By the way, Just so
(29:12):
that everybody's listening, I don't like the word silencer because
there's silencer implies that things are silent, and there is
no such thing as silentio when it comes to comes
to a weapon. That's why I stick with suppressor because
it knocks down the sound, but you'll never get it
(29:33):
like how many times, Dave, do you remember when we
were kids and they would always have these in the sixties,
Remember somebody would you know, put a suppressor on a weapon,
and you'd hear that little pink sound like that of
the weapon. Listen, if you've got a suppressed nine milimeter,
it's not going to go pink like that. It's it'll
(29:56):
have a more robust sound than that. Okay, it's not
going to down the sound to that point, but it does.
It does a couple of interesting things though, when that,
When anytime you introduce a suppressor into a weapon, first off,
it can cause you can see you can actually see
the action of the weapon is affected. And what I
(30:19):
mean by that when the weapon is discharged, it can't
compromise the weapon's ability because you have a reduction in
the power of the weapon because of the suppressor. To
get the weapon to cycle, so you might have to
clear it multiple times. Do you see how smooth he
was with that? By the way, I think he was practiced.
(30:40):
Now I'm not saying he's a professional a professional gunner here,
all right, I'm not saying that, But he knew. I
think he probably understood the limitations of that weapon because
and he transitioned. One of the things that you can tell,
well when you go to the I'm not a good shot,
(31:02):
and I've had been having a fire weapons since I
was a kid, uh and certainly qualifying with weapons. I
was always a bag of nerves. I was never good
at My eyesight as horrible. So if I just got
like in the army, I think I got like a marksman.
I was fine with that. I never had a desire
to be an expert at anything as an intel guy.
(31:22):
So it's like I could shoot in the general. Give
me a shot, you guys, you know. So it was
like I had I had no desire. I had to
qualify with my weapon, you know, because at the m's
office and in the corner's office. In the worlds, we
all cared weapons. You had to go to qualification, you know,
twice a year. I was always nervous and so but
you can when you go to a range and you
(31:44):
see somebody that is very proficient, you know they practice
with a weapon. There's a silky smoothness to it and
they never get rattled. And when you watch him shoot.
One of the big things is when you're talking about
acquisition of a target, it's called maintaining your site picture.
(32:07):
So that weapon has no special optics on it. From
what I can see, like one of those little red
dot sits on the top of it. It's not. So
he's using the iron sights that are built into the
slide of a glock, which on the backside is kind
of a you or a V shape, you know, kind
of housing on the back that's on the top, and
then you'll have a post in the front. Sometimes they're illuminated,
(32:29):
sometimes they're not. You'll have a little glowing dot and
you're supposed to create what's called a site picture. Well,
one of the problems with this is that every time
a weapon misfires or you have to clear it, you
have to reacquire your sight picture, and it makes people nervous.
Particularly I can only imagine I've never had to shoot
(32:50):
at moving targets like this a human when if you're
in a rush and you're trying to do this, it
would make it turns you into Barney five if you're
fumbling with a weapon all the while, he might not
completely get it to clear. You can't have what's referred
(33:12):
to as a stovepipe, where as you're trying to cycle
through the ejection. The cycling process gets so screwed up.
First off, this is a three D printed weapon, or
at least the lower receiver is, and you've got a
suppressor that has allegedly been three D. There's all kinds
of catastrophes that could happen here. But Dave, I got
(33:35):
to tell you, watching the person in that image, I'm
not saying it's him. I'm not saying it's him, But
watching that person in that image, he was silky smooth.
I mean, he truly was. When you see him try
to clear that weapon over and over again, and then
he walks by, he discharges that weapon one more time
(33:57):
before he disappears off to the left out frame, you know.
And that's what to me, that's what made it so chilling,
because you could tell that this person, at least in
a very broad sess, knew what they were doing. That
tells me that they've practiced where that weapon. Doesn't mean
that they're a marksman by any shape, That doesn't mean
(34:18):
certainly that they're an expert. It just means that they understand.
They understand what the capabilities are lack of capabilities of
this thing are.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
So he's able to lie in wait patiently for Brian Thompson.
As Brian Thompson is coming into the hotel, the accused
Luigi Mangioni steps out and mentioned this minute ago. It's
the first time many of us have actually seen what
really happens when someone is shot. Oftentimes it's so blurry,
(34:50):
but we never we just don't usually have this. I
mentioned at some point I felt like we were taking
part in a snuff film by watching that, and I
mentioned to a friend of mine that there was some
thought back in the day of the David Berkowitz, the
son of Sam, that they were making snuff films.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Then I've heard that before, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
And that was my thought with this. A snuff film
is a set up murder to be filmed for people
to get their jollys off. And watching Brian Thompson be
murdered on it just was too much. But I want you, Joe,
to describe for us what we saw, because to me,
we get this. We see people in movies and on
TV they get shot and they go falling into a
(35:32):
building or you know, but if you actually watch what
really takes place, it's different. And watching Brian Thompson's reaction
reactions to being shot, there is a very specific thing
that he is doing physically with the first shot, second shot,
and then he falls and I'm wondering at what point
(35:56):
or is there a way that you can know what
was happening to his body internally as this was going
on in a very brief number of seconds that passed.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah. Hard, it's kind of hard to to kind of
sort that. I think there is a graininess that comes
along with this. I'm grateful that they have it, don't
get me wrong, but you're not. And even if it
was h D quality, you know, I think that some
(36:25):
people think that when an individual shot, you're going to
have this kind of explosive event that takes place. I
have work cases day where I've had individuals that have
been shot through clothing and I had to search to
find the entrance wound because there's not necessarily going to
be a copious amount of blood that you're going to see.
(36:50):
The blood might be all contained within within that element
of the body, whether it's the thigh, the calf, or
even the back, but it particularly in the immediate and
so you get it and depend upon how the person rests.
I'll give you for example, if someone is shot, say
in the back of their thighs, so post to your thigh,
(37:13):
they're hit and let's say the round doesn't exit, okay,
and they fall down face forward, all right, So they're
shot in the post here thigh, that blood is not
going to drain out of that hole or that defect
like it would if they were face up having been
(37:33):
shot in the back. You see what I'm saying, and
the gravity will literally and not to mention Dave, he didn't.
My money is on it. I don't have any proof
of this. I don't think he died like instantaneously. All right,
we'll see, we'll see. I'll couch my bets on that.
But I'm just saying I don't necessarily know that he
(37:54):
died instantaneously. The only wounds that at the time of this,
of this tape that we know of he shot in
the leg and he shot in the back is essentially
And I've heard some people saying back and chest, Well,
a brief anatomy lesson here your posterior You have a
(38:15):
posterior chest. So if you place your hands between your
shoulder blades, you might not be aware of this, but
in the medical context, that's your posterior chest. Some people say, oh,
that's my back, It is your back, but we don't
in anatomical terms, medical terms, they don't refer to that
(38:37):
as your back, that's your posterior chest. Okay, So if
he shot in the posterior chest and he goes down
into a prone position, which means face down I hate
that term, face down, and it didn't exit out of him,
then you know you're not going to have like maybe
(38:59):
necessarily a copious amount of blood at that point. Now,
once he slipped over and they start CPR on him
and ems rolls out, you're going to see as they're
doing chest compressions and all this stuff. But here's the thing, Dave.
To this point, and I don't know that we will
get one anytime soon. We don't have our eyes on
(39:20):
an autopsy report. But what I do know is that
he was purposed. He showed up. The assassin showed up,
I'll use that term, with a weapon, a weapon that
was meant to be concealed, not just visibly, but more
(39:42):
importantly from the report of the sound. And he certainly
showed up with the right type of ammunition. I'm Joseph
Scott Morgan and this is body backs
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Tho
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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