December 24, 2024 • 31 mins
In Part One of "The Public Execution of a CEO: The Murder of Brian Thompson" Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack discussed the background of the alleged shooter and how the weapon involved would work. In Part Two, Joseph Scott Morgan goes in-depth into the weapon and ammunition used as well as the physical damage that would be done to a person hit with such ammunition. Dave Mack covers what was written in the "notebook" found in Luigi Mangione's backpack when he was arrested as well as "The Manifesto" Mangione is alleged to have written as well as the charges he currently faces.
Transcript Highlights
00:00:00.71 Introduction Part Two
00:00:27.62 Hardware used - Ghost Gun
00:04:53.34 Ammunition used
00:09:16.25 Words Written on shells
00:14:12.34 Words written on shells
00:18:59.48 Handwriting analysis
00:23:22.98 Mansion was not a customer of United Healthcare
00:26:10.23 The Notebook and the Manifesto
00:31:12.50 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body backs. But Joseph Scott Morgan, we're learning more every
day about the brutal homicide of Brian Thompson and CEO
of United Healthcare. This is part two of our coverage
(00:21):
of that case. I'm Josephcotten Morgan and this is bodybags.
There's an old adage that says, is a poor workman
that curses his tools. In this particular case, whoever it
is that is responsible for the death of Brian Thompson
(00:42):
And allegedly, according to the authorities, they're looking at mister Mangioni.
He showed up with the right hardware for the job.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Apparently Dave I had so many questions about the gun,
the bullets, So let's start there. Joe, you explained the
ghost gun and how that was possibly done in a
three D printer. We'll find out more about the three
D print gun that they call the ghost gun. But
you're talking about the glock and being nine millimeter, and
(01:18):
I know that there was a nine millimeter unfired bullet
right as well as they had three shells that were
found at the scene that had writing on them. That
actually means something in all of this, but more than
all of that, and there was the mention of a
(01:39):
hollow point bullet, right, And for those of us who
only hear about these things on you know, movies and
in TV, what are we talking about with a nine
millimeter round first of all, and then adding into it
that it's a hollow point.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, that's an excellent question. I think a lot of
people are you know it? You know, they can be
a bit confused. But the main the main purpose of
a of a hollow so called hollow point round is expansion.
And so let's think about this. When the firing sequence
(02:18):
of a handgun, let's just take a glock. It's got
an internal firing pen, I mean an internal hammer. It
strikes the firing pin. When the trigger is actuated, that
firing pin goes forward, it strikes the primer camp cap,
which is this little circle at at the base of
a live round, and it showers out heated are burning?
(02:44):
Uh primer Okay, it's it's got a very specific chemical
structure to it. Well, that little flame that comes off
of that primer cap travels up through what are called
flash holes in the live round, and there's these tang
little holes and it throws it through those little flash holes.
There's a bunch of these little sparks that are given off,
(03:08):
and as it goes through the flash holes, it hits
what's referred to as the propellant inside of the live
round day and when that propellant is ignited, it pushes
the projectile down the barrel. And you hear about us
talking about rifling in a barrel, rifling or those grooves
(03:30):
that are creating in a barrel, and it makes the
now projectile, it's no longer an intact piece of ammo.
You know, people used from bullet and a bullet for
a lot of people will say it means like an
entire projectile live round for most people, I think that
(03:51):
projectile should be used here because it is what is
being projected. So you've got the casing that is essentially
it projected either side, and this projectile is sent out
of the muzzle well because the rifling, the projectile is spinning,
and what a spinning do, well, the spinning actually maintains
(04:15):
the energy. You don't have energy depletion like you do,
say with like a smooth bore like a shotgun, where
you're just blasting this thing out and after a few yards.
Shotgun rounds in particular they spread and then they lose
their energy really quickly. They just kind of fall. It's
aerodynamically inefficient, okay, but with a rifled round. And we
(04:40):
learned this all the way back, you know, in Civil War.
It's why the wounds were so devastating. You have rifled,
rifled weapons and it maintains the energy. Now, to add
on to this, years ago they developed we'd gone through
a whole series of different types of moo over the years.
(05:00):
There were things like wadcutters that were famous back in
the seventies that people would fire in their three fifty
seven revolvers. But then a new type of round hit
the market. Is called a holow point, and so you've
got this kind of cupped out area in the center.
So if you think about the shape of a projectile,
it's kind of it looks like a nose cone on
(05:21):
a rocket. Okay. Well, their HaLow points are not shaped
like that. It's the guts of that center portion are
hollowed out, if you will, and so it forms its
kind of cup. Well what does that mean. Well, as
that projectile exits that barrel, it's spinning and when it
(05:42):
hits the target. What these projectiles are designed to do
is that when it impacts the target, let's say the
back of a human being. Okay, that projectile goes from
being a nine million meter round okay, which if you
(06:02):
think about it, it's I don't know, probably zero point
three five inches in diameter. It goes from being point
three five inches in diameter to what the manufacturers hoping
it does is that it expands, and so it goes
from a nine millimeter to a fifteen millimeter d you see.
(06:25):
I mean that's the purpose of it. So as as
it it blossoms out, the hollow point, as it blossoms out,
it begins to drag and cavitate through the body, Okay.
And it's very basic because the ideas is, as it
is increasing the caliber size. All right. Now, not all
(06:50):
of them expand I've seen them where they don't expand
a number of times, all right, So it's not guaranteed
every single time. For the most part, they do, or at
least partially. The more the thing expands, the more tissue
you're going to tear up. Okay. And there's been a
number of these specialized HaLow points have been made. I
think the black talon was created a few years ago.
(07:13):
And it actually has like when it expands, it's got
a little teeth on it on the edge of it,
like little hooks, And so as it goes through the body,
any of the little micro vessels that are in there,
it grabs them and it just kind of rips them
and shreds them, not to mention all the other tissue,
and it finally comes to rest. And many times when
you have a Holow point, if it does its shop
(07:34):
where it expands, you'll get these events. Depending upon the
thickness of that portion of the body that's going through.
Sometimes you won't have them exit. They'll just be rattling around,
you know, in the body, and then you'll recover them
at autopsy. And so you've got this round that. Otherwise,
(07:55):
let's say if it went through and it's at zero
point three to five inches in diameter with a standard projectile,
let's say it's not hollow point, you've got some of
it a better chance of perhaps surviving as opposed to
a Holow point that's now expanded out to fifteen millimeters
as opposed to nine millimeters, and it's created this huge
(08:18):
cavitation of body where it's ripped all the tissue to shreds.
So he showed up with this in tow. This is
apparently the type of AMMO at least at this point
we know that at at least one of the rounds
that he found out, I don't know because we hadn't
gotten a lot of And look, kudos to alatoon of
police that hooked this guy update because they didn't really
(08:39):
release a lot of information. All they say is they
recovered a weapon, okay, our a ghost gun, I think,
or something to that effect. So we don't know if
the weapon was loaded. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
We don't know how many these rounds he had. I'm
still flummixed over the fact that he had this thing.
First off, you're as how much water there is between
(09:01):
New York and Alatoon of Pennsylvania. He had taken the
bus into town back in November, and you know what
the beauty of the traveling with a bus with a
(09:23):
gun is, you're not going to go through a metal detector.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I don't want to go back to him shooting Brian Thompson.
He's using the nine millimeter bullet and a nine milimeter
round and on it he has inscribed He's written words
on these shells. Now, I don't know how the gun loads.
It's not a revolver. I mean, it's not going to
have the spinning wheel, right, it's going to have a
(09:47):
Carter's load.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, it's a it's a it's a magazine.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So he's loading that magazine with these and I and
he's written on at least three of them the words delay, deny, and.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Oh the third word depose depose, thank you yea.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And that's all part of a book about the insurance
agencies ripping us all off when it comes to getting
our care taken care of with help. But he had
written that on these, the killer had written it on
those shells that were found at the scene, the shell cases.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah he did. And again that's you know, our friends
in question document examination, they don't get the love in
forensics that they should. I've got friends that are questioned
document examiners or they're either called qdes or FDEs deetended
pond kind of what school they come from. Forensic document
examiners and question document examiners. I love these people, I
(10:45):
really do. They're fascinating to talk to and their training
is insane. The problem is is not as many people
are writing anymore. So, but I can guarantee I can
guarantee you that there will be these individual skills are
going to be engaged.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Because though even though they have a fingerprint match on
the shelves and everything else, they will still break down
who wrote that to make sure there's not somebody else involved. Now,
in his manifesto he claimed that he did this by himself,
that anybody else was involved, but somebody.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Again that was written. My understanding that, yeah, you got
a couple of I'm glad you brought that up, Dave,
because the manifesto, this notebook that he's got, that's rather verbo.
So I think it's a couple of hundred pages, maybe
is handwritten. My understanding is it's in a notebook, a
spiral notebook.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Okay, in the spiral notebook he had a to do
list and he had a few other things in this
spiral notebook. But he makes a comment in the so
called manifesto that the spiral notebook may or may not
be there, So he wasn't when he wrote the manifesto.
It was separate from his notebook Spiral notebook. The manifesto
(12:03):
is two hundred and sixty two handwritten words allegedly written
by Luigi Mangioni. Now they will use that, they'll get
his fingerprints off to all this paper anyway, but then
they will. They have found his fingerprints on the nine
millimeter shells with the handwriting on them at the scene.
They also, by the way, got his fingerprint match on
the water bottle from the Starbucks the kind bar bar Yeah. Yeah,
(12:29):
and there was also a cell phone. There was a
burner phone found nearby that had his fingerprints.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, and so there's nothing. And here's another thing. If
I please correct me if I'm wrong, you're wrong. Thank
you don't believe anything I say if I remember correctly. Yeah,
I'm thinking that there was a freeze frame of him
on CCTO. He's not wearing gloves.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Right, He's not wearing gloves, So you got a mask
over his face, the blue medical mask on his face.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
That We do see him dump down one time when
he's you.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Know, with the girl at the hostel and she said,
let me see that pretty smile and he dougs it down,
and but other than that he kept it pretty buttoned up.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
But no, I didn't see any gloves on him. And
we know we got fingerprints on this shown.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
How can you do this much? And this is what
we talk about this all the time, don't we. You know,
I need to write a book. We talk about this
all the time where where we you know, we there's
that one thing that people do and there's not just
one in this case, there's multiple. But going back to
the handwriting, so our friends understand when when a case
(13:38):
of question document comes up, what will happen is and
this has happened for years and years, particularly when you
think and by the way, I urge anybody listening to
this to explore the life of doctor or professor Osburn
who wrote who wrote the seminal text on handwriting examination
(13:59):
he actually tests, And we're going to cover this case.
I think you and I have talked about it of
the Lindberg kidnapping and a Professor Osborne wrote the definitive
text on handwriting. By the way, if you can get
your hands on an original copy, you're gonna be wealthy
because it's still a text that's used even in this
thing was written back in the twenties or thirties. I
(14:20):
think anyway that the same principle still apply today. But
at any rate, what they're going to do is, for instance,
they will have him either offer up what to referred
to as exemplars, so they will give him they will
give him a sheet of paper and it can either
be ruled or non ruled. And they're going to give
(14:42):
him an instrument that approximates whatever it is that he
was using, whether it's a sharpie or my personal favorite
may maybe they'll give us an endorsement pilot extra fine point,
which I've always written with.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I wrote all as an academic. I thought you were
going to say the number two lead pencil.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Hardly, I'm too lazy. They're going to try to approximate
whatever it is. I mean, it could be a disposable,
big I guess they still make disposables. And they're going
to get the instrument that approximates with what the handwriting
examiner believes this thing was generated in. And they're going
(15:26):
to say, write these words okay and there, and they're
going to have him write the words out okay.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Even if he says, look, you got my manifesto, you
got my spiral notebook, what more do you want?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Those are my right? I wrote it? Do they still
make him write it down so that they can verify
that they're you know, he could be say.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Do what I tell you to do. Okay, we'll get
a subpoena for it, you know, and they'll they'll compel
him to do it. It's like it's like going in
I don't know if it's actually this might be a
Nancy question, but it's like if you when you when
they hooked him up in Altoona, they printed him. Okay,
(16:06):
well they've got that print. Even if he's not in
n CIC n c C, the National Prime Information Center database,
they now have his print locked in. Okay, it's been
officially taken. Well, they can take that print and that's
going to go to the print section of the crime lab.
And when they either use super glue or dusting or
(16:29):
whatever it is they use to lift these prints off
these items, you know, the the water bottle and the
rounds in particular, which are not fun to do. That's
that's kind of a hard thing to do. Sometimes they're
very skilled at it. Or that that plastic wrapper. They'll
take those latent prints and Layton means unseen and they'll
(16:54):
lift them. They'll have a uh, and then they've got
this static collection of his print from Alatoona, and they
will they will have printed him again when he in
New York as well. He's going to be printed multiple times. Okay,
even at the conclusion of trial. And I'm not saying
he's going to be found guilty. I'm just saying I'll
(17:16):
just say in a vanilaary in a broad sense, anybody
that's that's hooked up on charges, they're tried and convicted,
one of the first things they do is lead you
out of the courtroom and they take you to print
you again. Yeah, and so he's going to be printed,
and so they'll have that information too, but they will
compare his handwriting. And we all have tendencies. Do you know,
(17:38):
Dave that years ago, a lot of these people that
do prints, I mean that do handwriting examinations, they felt
as though that they could use they could regionalize your handwriting,
like they could get an idea as to where you
learn to write, or who taught you how to write,
(17:59):
based upon you know, like if it was your parent
or whether it was your teacher. That's like in my
day slapping the back of your hand with a ruler,
which did happen when you're forming your letters. There's a
couple of old texts. You've got the Palmer text and
the zay I'm going to pronounce it's wrong, the Zaaner
blowser blauser. Matter of fact, famously in uh In Forgiving
(18:21):
If I've mentioned this before. I love this movie Driving
Miss Daisy. Yeah, Miss Daisy gives Hope a present and
she said, that's a Zaaner writer. And when she says that,
that's something that handwriter, handwriting examiners actually go back to
because it's like those formed letters that you saw, incursive
or you learn how to write out of these things. Well,
(18:42):
there's certain ways that you learn how to write, and
you can these people can look at your writing even
as an adult. And if they can take your six
year old handwriting and they can, do you know that
they can actually find similarities. Wow, yeah, your handwriting evolves,
but there are just certain things that they'd look for.
It's really hard to escape, it really is. But I'm
(19:03):
sorry I could. I'm you know, having a.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Literally revisiting this.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
We will revisit this on our John beIN a Ramsey
episode coming up.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, we will, we will because there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
There's a lot in there, so they will be using.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Over the course of the next several weeks and months,
they will be breaking down each aspect of the evidence
that they've announced already.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And yeah, there's gonna be DNA too. Yeah, I think
there's gonna be a DNA. I don't know what purpose
it will necessarily serve, but they I guess as a
confirmatory test. And I think that they said they were
running DNA. So you're going to get that off of
the h And let's just say, like, for instance, that
kind bar that you mentioned, let's see, I know, because
(19:48):
it's something you just told me. You're You're a big
fan of Reese's cups, aren't you.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I dig them too. So most of
the time when we eat our If you eat a
Reese's cup, okay, do you when you you actually have
it in the cut, you know, the little paper cup, right,
do you take it completely out of the cup or
do you peel the cup back and then take a
bite of it and then roll it back up in
the cup, or do you just completely extricate it from that.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You actually take it out of the wrapper. I've never
been able to wait that long. I just I suck
the whole thing down. I eat that brown wrapper. Man,
can't help me.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
However, think about a candy ball.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah, you peel it off, Yeah, but you do you
peel it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Out like a banana. Right, you guess what you do
if you're feeling it like a banana, Well, you can
actually leave spittle the interior of that wrapper. And again
that's a that's a sort of area for DNA.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
When you were telling me about the Reese's peanut butter
cup right then, all I was thinking of the most
frustrating thing of eating those is when you do peel
it off, there the little cup it sitting in, and
you realize there's some chocolate that's.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
In the bottom, and it's like, it's to deal with that.
I feel like I'm such a child. I'm gonna lick
that if nobody's looking.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
You know, I'm not telling no man. If you do it,
God speed go with you.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
But but yeah, I mean they're gonna look, they're gonna
look for and again that goes to this, it's gonna
be funny. As careful as this individual alleged perpetrator has
apparently been from what we've been told, what we've seen,
it's you know, the devil again is in the details,
(21:26):
you know, those little things that you that you leave
behind that you just did not you didn't count on
for whatever reason. And I still I'm still not completely
convinced that maybe some people want to be caught that manifesto, Dave.
(21:59):
I tell you, man, it is going to be picked
down to the bone from all types of behaviorists that
are out there. You know, I'm sure that the people
that do psychological profiling are salivating over the scene to
see what kind of nuggets, you know, that they can
kind of conjure up out of the scene to develop,
(22:22):
you know, some type of understanding. Because one of the
biggest things about this case, and something that you had
said from the top of the show that I did
not read until today that was quite amazing to me.
It's the fact that he was not a customer of
(22:42):
United Healthcare. And I'm thinking, what's your beef at this
point in time, what's your beef? Did you suddenly manifest
this beef as you're luxuriating on the beautiful sand beaches
in Hawaii?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, Joe, when you say you know, where's the beef?
That's actually been bottom line for all of law enforcement,
you know, what was the point, why did he pick
Brian Thompson, and why did he pick it at that time? Actually,
the timing maybe oddly pointed out that he in his
Spiral notebook he talks about how he procrastinated, So this
(23:19):
has been something he'd been planning for some time, long
enough that he could have procrastinated and learned. More to
the federal criminal complaint that has been unsealed. Now he's
charged with murder through the use of a firearm, two
stocking charges in firearms offense, and he actually can now
face the death penalty if he's found guilty of the
federal murder charges. The state charges carry a maximum penalty
(23:40):
of life in prison without the possibility of parole. Prosecutors
have not indicated whether they're going to seek the death penalty.
That decision would ultimately need to be approved by the
US Attorney General. Of course, he faces charges in Pennsylvania
due to the three D printed firearm false IDs he had,
and the state and federal trials are going to work
in parallel, according to the Manhattan DA's office, and the
(24:02):
state trial will come before his federal trial. So that
kind of lays out what we're looking at the push
for the federal charges came from the US Attorney's office
multiple law enforcement sources to confirm this already. Because the
FBI was already involved in the investigation, assisting the NYPD
with out of town leads, the FBI agents were asked
(24:25):
to draw up the federal complaint based on evidence collected
by the NYPD, detectives working on the state charges, and
police in Pennsylvania who arrested Mangonies. See, you've got multiple
state and local agencies working to provide information for the
FBI that would be used in filing the federal charges.
The federal prosecutors say that they have jurisdiction in the
(24:47):
case because Manngoni's travel in interstate commerce. He took a
bus from Atlanta to New York prior to the killing.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
He then used the.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Interstate facilities using cell phone and the internet to plan
and carry out the stalking, shooting, and killing of Thompson
in Manhattan. One other thing to look at this is
that spiral notebook that Mangoni had when he was when
he was caught and when they took a look at this,
(25:16):
and it really did bring out something. The writing in
the notebook helped investigators build the federal case against him,
it ended up being a well planned homicide involving stalking
the movements of his alleged victim. There was an entry
in the Spiral notebook dated August fifteenth that reads, quote
the details are finally coming together unquote now according to
(25:39):
the federal complaint, it also says, I'm glad in a
way that I've procrastinated. Mangoni allegedly wrote in this notebook
he's you know that it gave him time to learn
more about the company he was targeting, and then they
redacted the name of the company. Could have been a
company any other than the one that Brian Thompson was
(26:01):
the CEO. I don't know, but the notebook actually says this,
The target is insurance because it checks every box. The
notebook also contained several handwritten pages that express hostility towards
the health insurance industry and wealthy executives, in particular.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
You want to know where's the beef. Maybe there's the beef.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, I don't know, I mean, why why Brian Thompson?
Was he an easy target? Was he somebody that had
singled out? Did he read something in the news, you know,
you talked about the stock thing and all the sorts
of things, and I don't even know if that was
necessarily broadly known. And I think the other thing that's
(26:46):
really kind of fascinating about this, they've talked about how
information was contained in there in the manifesto. I believe
correct me if I'm wrong where he said he did
not want to use a bomb because he didn't want
to harm innocence. David, I'm wondering. I'm really wondering, and
I hope that they do this or there are other
(27:06):
people on the list. Was Brian Thompson just the easiest
person to get to, you know?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
You know, Joe, we have danced around the manifesto, but
we've got one here that, based on everything we've seen
thus far, this is it. So here is the manifesto. Okay,
to the best of our ability to confirm.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
This is it. This is what it says.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Quote to the FEDS. I'll keep this short because I
do respect what you do for our country. To save
you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't
working with anyone. This was fairly trivial, some elementary social engineering,
basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook if present,
(27:51):
has some straggling notes and to do lists that illuminate
the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down
because I work in engineering, so probably not much info there.
I do apologize for any strife of traumas, but it
had to be done. United is the indecipherable largest company
in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart.
(28:15):
It has grown and grown, but has our life expectancy.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
The reality is these indecipherable have simply gotten too powerful,
and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit
because the American public has allowed them to get away
with it. Obviously, the problem is more complex, but I
did not have space, and frankly I did not pretend
to be the most qualified person to lay out the
(28:40):
full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed E.
G Rosenthal more decades ago, and the problem simply remain.
It is not an issue of awareness at this point,
but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the
first to face it with such brutal honesty. That is
(29:03):
the manifesto.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
One of the other things that I've heard is that
a lot of these people that occupy these spaces now
at other healthcare companies have scrubbed their biographical information. Now
they've completely come down. You know, their LinkedIn stuff is
not available, you know, and I guarantee you the security
apparatus that surrounds these individuals has been kicked up. I'm
(29:27):
still to this, you know. I see these I see
these movie stars that are on television and listen, or
that are walking the carpet and all this stuff, and
they've got these huge you know, they look like they're
probably former special operations people, you know, with dark sunglasses
and you know, all beefed up and everything. And listen.
(29:48):
I'm not trying to degrade these individuals as human beings,
but from a value standpoint, and what type of anger
people might have directed at these individuals, maybe because of
some kind of tweet that they made or something. That's
nothing compared to the anger that people have directed at
people in the healthcare industry, in the health insurance industry.
(30:09):
Because you've got people out there that have sustained pain
and it's a longgoing and they've had to mortgage their
homes and all these sorts of things. And I'm really thinking,
why didn't this guy have a security detail? At least
one guy with him. Why was there not somebody walking
on his shoulder, you know, as he is going down
the street. Why had the street not been checked out?
(30:32):
Why and the door been checked out? Because that's a
common thing, protecting a principle as they're walking along. I'm
really wondering about that. I've done some digging and the
person that's in charge of the security internationally for United
Healthcare was hired back in twenty twenty three, and I'm
sure that there have probably been a myriad of questions
(30:55):
that have been asked of that individual. But here's the
story moving forward. My partner Dave and I have spent
I guess the past week probably now many hours covering
this case. Dave has done all of this hard work
(31:15):
for Nancy Grace. I've covered it on multiple other platforms.
This is not the end of the story. This is
only the beginning, and I urge each and every one
of you to keep your eye on the news because
there has already been another threat and another arrest made
in regards to someone that has threatened somebody else in
(31:38):
the healthcare industry. I pray, I pray that we're not
going to see any copycats out there. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is bodybacks.
Body backs. But Joseph Scott Morgan, we're learning more every
day about the brutal homicide of Brian Thompson and CEO
of United Healthcare. This is part two of our coverage
(00:21):
of that case. I'm Josephcotten Morgan and this is bodybags.
There's an old adage that says, is a poor workman
that curses his tools. In this particular case, whoever it
is that is responsible for the death of Brian Thompson
(00:42):
And allegedly, according to the authorities, they're looking at mister Mangioni.
He showed up with the right hardware for the job.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Apparently Dave I had so many questions about the gun,
the bullets, So let's start there. Joe, you explained the
ghost gun and how that was possibly done in a
three D printer. We'll find out more about the three
D print gun that they call the ghost gun. But
you're talking about the glock and being nine millimeter, and
(01:18):
I know that there was a nine millimeter unfired bullet
right as well as they had three shells that were
found at the scene that had writing on them. That
actually means something in all of this, but more than
all of that, and there was the mention of a
(01:39):
hollow point bullet, right, And for those of us who
only hear about these things on you know, movies and
in TV, what are we talking about with a nine
millimeter round first of all, and then adding into it
that it's a hollow point.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, that's an excellent question. I think a lot of
people are you know it? You know, they can be
a bit confused. But the main the main purpose of
a of a hollow so called hollow point round is expansion.
And so let's think about this. When the firing sequence
(02:18):
of a handgun, let's just take a glock. It's got
an internal firing pen, I mean an internal hammer. It
strikes the firing pin. When the trigger is actuated, that
firing pin goes forward, it strikes the primer camp cap,
which is this little circle at at the base of
a live round, and it showers out heated are burning?
(02:44):
Uh primer Okay, it's it's got a very specific chemical
structure to it. Well, that little flame that comes off
of that primer cap travels up through what are called
flash holes in the live round, and there's these tang
little holes and it throws it through those little flash holes.
There's a bunch of these little sparks that are given off,
(03:08):
and as it goes through the flash holes, it hits
what's referred to as the propellant inside of the live
round day and when that propellant is ignited, it pushes
the projectile down the barrel. And you hear about us
talking about rifling in a barrel, rifling or those grooves
(03:30):
that are creating in a barrel, and it makes the
now projectile, it's no longer an intact piece of ammo.
You know, people used from bullet and a bullet for
a lot of people will say it means like an
entire projectile live round for most people, I think that
(03:51):
projectile should be used here because it is what is
being projected. So you've got the casing that is essentially
it projected either side, and this projectile is sent out
of the muzzle well because the rifling, the projectile is spinning,
and what a spinning do, well, the spinning actually maintains
(04:15):
the energy. You don't have energy depletion like you do,
say with like a smooth bore like a shotgun, where
you're just blasting this thing out and after a few yards.
Shotgun rounds in particular they spread and then they lose
their energy really quickly. They just kind of fall. It's
aerodynamically inefficient, okay, but with a rifled round. And we
(04:40):
learned this all the way back, you know, in Civil War.
It's why the wounds were so devastating. You have rifled,
rifled weapons and it maintains the energy. Now, to add
on to this, years ago they developed we'd gone through
a whole series of different types of moo over the years.
(05:00):
There were things like wadcutters that were famous back in
the seventies that people would fire in their three fifty
seven revolvers. But then a new type of round hit
the market. Is called a holow point, and so you've
got this kind of cupped out area in the center.
So if you think about the shape of a projectile,
it's kind of it looks like a nose cone on
(05:21):
a rocket. Okay. Well, their HaLow points are not shaped
like that. It's the guts of that center portion are
hollowed out, if you will, and so it forms its
kind of cup. Well what does that mean. Well, as
that projectile exits that barrel, it's spinning and when it
(05:42):
hits the target. What these projectiles are designed to do
is that when it impacts the target, let's say the
back of a human being. Okay, that projectile goes from
being a nine million meter round okay, which if you
(06:02):
think about it, it's I don't know, probably zero point
three five inches in diameter. It goes from being point
three five inches in diameter to what the manufacturers hoping
it does is that it expands, and so it goes
from a nine millimeter to a fifteen millimeter d you see.
(06:25):
I mean that's the purpose of it. So as as
it it blossoms out, the hollow point, as it blossoms out,
it begins to drag and cavitate through the body, Okay.
And it's very basic because the ideas is, as it
is increasing the caliber size. All right. Now, not all
(06:50):
of them expand I've seen them where they don't expand
a number of times, all right, So it's not guaranteed
every single time. For the most part, they do, or at
least partially. The more the thing expands, the more tissue
you're going to tear up. Okay. And there's been a
number of these specialized HaLow points have been made. I
think the black talon was created a few years ago.
(07:13):
And it actually has like when it expands, it's got
a little teeth on it on the edge of it,
like little hooks, And so as it goes through the body,
any of the little micro vessels that are in there,
it grabs them and it just kind of rips them
and shreds them, not to mention all the other tissue,
and it finally comes to rest. And many times when
you have a Holow point, if it does its shop
(07:34):
where it expands, you'll get these events. Depending upon the
thickness of that portion of the body that's going through.
Sometimes you won't have them exit. They'll just be rattling around,
you know, in the body, and then you'll recover them
at autopsy. And so you've got this round that. Otherwise,
(07:55):
let's say if it went through and it's at zero
point three to five inches in diameter with a standard projectile,
let's say it's not hollow point, you've got some of
it a better chance of perhaps surviving as opposed to
a Holow point that's now expanded out to fifteen millimeters
as opposed to nine millimeters, and it's created this huge
(08:18):
cavitation of body where it's ripped all the tissue to shreds.
So he showed up with this in tow. This is
apparently the type of AMMO at least at this point
we know that at at least one of the rounds
that he found out, I don't know because we hadn't
gotten a lot of And look, kudos to alatoon of
police that hooked this guy update because they didn't really
(08:39):
release a lot of information. All they say is they
recovered a weapon, okay, our a ghost gun, I think,
or something to that effect. So we don't know if
the weapon was loaded. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.
We don't know how many these rounds he had. I'm
still flummixed over the fact that he had this thing.
First off, you're as how much water there is between
(09:01):
New York and Alatoon of Pennsylvania. He had taken the
bus into town back in November, and you know what
the beauty of the traveling with a bus with a
(09:23):
gun is, you're not going to go through a metal detector.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I don't want to go back to him shooting Brian Thompson.
He's using the nine millimeter bullet and a nine milimeter
round and on it he has inscribed He's written words
on these shells. Now, I don't know how the gun loads.
It's not a revolver. I mean, it's not going to
have the spinning wheel, right, it's going to have a
(09:47):
Carter's load.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, it's a it's a it's a magazine.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
So he's loading that magazine with these and I and
he's written on at least three of them the words delay, deny, and.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Oh the third word depose depose, thank you yea.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And that's all part of a book about the insurance
agencies ripping us all off when it comes to getting
our care taken care of with help. But he had
written that on these, the killer had written it on
those shells that were found at the scene, the shell cases.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah he did. And again that's you know, our friends
in question document examination, they don't get the love in
forensics that they should. I've got friends that are questioned
document examiners or they're either called qdes or FDEs deetended
pond kind of what school they come from. Forensic document
examiners and question document examiners. I love these people, I
(10:45):
really do. They're fascinating to talk to and their training
is insane. The problem is is not as many people
are writing anymore. So, but I can guarantee I can
guarantee you that there will be these individual skills are
going to be engaged.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Because though even though they have a fingerprint match on
the shelves and everything else, they will still break down
who wrote that to make sure there's not somebody else involved. Now,
in his manifesto he claimed that he did this by himself,
that anybody else was involved, but somebody.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Again that was written. My understanding that, yeah, you got
a couple of I'm glad you brought that up, Dave,
because the manifesto, this notebook that he's got, that's rather verbo.
So I think it's a couple of hundred pages, maybe
is handwritten. My understanding is it's in a notebook, a
spiral notebook.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Okay, in the spiral notebook he had a to do
list and he had a few other things in this
spiral notebook. But he makes a comment in the so
called manifesto that the spiral notebook may or may not
be there, So he wasn't when he wrote the manifesto.
It was separate from his notebook Spiral notebook. The manifesto
(12:03):
is two hundred and sixty two handwritten words allegedly written
by Luigi Mangioni. Now they will use that, they'll get
his fingerprints off to all this paper anyway, but then
they will. They have found his fingerprints on the nine
millimeter shells with the handwriting on them at the scene.
They also, by the way, got his fingerprint match on
the water bottle from the Starbucks the kind bar bar Yeah. Yeah,
(12:29):
and there was also a cell phone. There was a
burner phone found nearby that had his fingerprints.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, and so there's nothing. And here's another thing. If
I please correct me if I'm wrong, you're wrong. Thank
you don't believe anything I say if I remember correctly. Yeah,
I'm thinking that there was a freeze frame of him
on CCTO. He's not wearing gloves.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Right, He's not wearing gloves, So you got a mask
over his face, the blue medical mask on his face.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
That We do see him dump down one time when
he's you.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Know, with the girl at the hostel and she said,
let me see that pretty smile and he dougs it down,
and but other than that he kept it pretty buttoned up.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
But no, I didn't see any gloves on him. And
we know we got fingerprints on this shown.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
How can you do this much? And this is what
we talk about this all the time, don't we. You know,
I need to write a book. We talk about this
all the time where where we you know, we there's
that one thing that people do and there's not just
one in this case, there's multiple. But going back to
the handwriting, so our friends understand when when a case
(13:38):
of question document comes up, what will happen is and
this has happened for years and years, particularly when you
think and by the way, I urge anybody listening to
this to explore the life of doctor or professor Osburn
who wrote who wrote the seminal text on handwriting examination
(13:59):
he actually tests, And we're going to cover this case.
I think you and I have talked about it of
the Lindberg kidnapping and a Professor Osborne wrote the definitive
text on handwriting. By the way, if you can get
your hands on an original copy, you're gonna be wealthy
because it's still a text that's used even in this
thing was written back in the twenties or thirties. I
(14:20):
think anyway that the same principle still apply today. But
at any rate, what they're going to do is, for instance,
they will have him either offer up what to referred
to as exemplars, so they will give him they will
give him a sheet of paper and it can either
be ruled or non ruled. And they're going to give
(14:42):
him an instrument that approximates whatever it is that he
was using, whether it's a sharpie or my personal favorite
may maybe they'll give us an endorsement pilot extra fine point,
which I've always written with.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I wrote all as an academic. I thought you were
going to say the number two lead pencil.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Hardly, I'm too lazy. They're going to try to approximate
whatever it is. I mean, it could be a disposable,
big I guess they still make disposables. And they're going
to get the instrument that approximates with what the handwriting
examiner believes this thing was generated in. And they're going
(15:26):
to say, write these words okay and there, and they're
going to have him write the words out okay.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Even if he says, look, you got my manifesto, you
got my spiral notebook, what more do you want?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Those are my right? I wrote it? Do they still
make him write it down so that they can verify
that they're you know, he could be say.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Do what I tell you to do. Okay, we'll get
a subpoena for it, you know, and they'll they'll compel
him to do it. It's like it's like going in
I don't know if it's actually this might be a
Nancy question, but it's like if you when you when
they hooked him up in Altoona, they printed him. Okay,
(16:06):
well they've got that print. Even if he's not in
n CIC n c C, the National Prime Information Center database,
they now have his print locked in. Okay, it's been
officially taken. Well, they can take that print and that's
going to go to the print section of the crime lab.
And when they either use super glue or dusting or
(16:29):
whatever it is they use to lift these prints off
these items, you know, the the water bottle and the
rounds in particular, which are not fun to do. That's
that's kind of a hard thing to do. Sometimes they're
very skilled at it. Or that that plastic wrapper. They'll
take those latent prints and Layton means unseen and they'll
(16:54):
lift them. They'll have a uh, and then they've got
this static collection of his print from Alatoona, and they
will they will have printed him again when he in
New York as well. He's going to be printed multiple times. Okay,
even at the conclusion of trial. And I'm not saying
he's going to be found guilty. I'm just saying I'll
(17:16):
just say in a vanilaary in a broad sense, anybody
that's that's hooked up on charges, they're tried and convicted,
one of the first things they do is lead you
out of the courtroom and they take you to print
you again. Yeah, and so he's going to be printed,
and so they'll have that information too, but they will
compare his handwriting. And we all have tendencies. Do you know,
(17:38):
Dave that years ago, a lot of these people that
do prints, I mean that do handwriting examinations, they felt
as though that they could use they could regionalize your handwriting,
like they could get an idea as to where you
learn to write, or who taught you how to write,
(17:59):
based upon you know, like if it was your parent
or whether it was your teacher. That's like in my
day slapping the back of your hand with a ruler,
which did happen when you're forming your letters. There's a
couple of old texts. You've got the Palmer text and
the zay I'm going to pronounce it's wrong, the Zaaner
blowser blauser. Matter of fact, famously in uh In Forgiving
(18:21):
If I've mentioned this before. I love this movie Driving
Miss Daisy. Yeah, Miss Daisy gives Hope a present and
she said, that's a Zaaner writer. And when she says that,
that's something that handwriter, handwriting examiners actually go back to
because it's like those formed letters that you saw, incursive
or you learn how to write out of these things. Well,
(18:42):
there's certain ways that you learn how to write, and
you can these people can look at your writing even
as an adult. And if they can take your six
year old handwriting and they can, do you know that
they can actually find similarities. Wow, yeah, your handwriting evolves,
but there are just certain things that they'd look for.
It's really hard to escape, it really is. But I'm
(19:03):
sorry I could. I'm you know, having a.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Literally revisiting this.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
We will revisit this on our John beIN a Ramsey
episode coming up.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, we will, we will because there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
There's a lot in there, so they will be using.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Over the course of the next several weeks and months,
they will be breaking down each aspect of the evidence
that they've announced already.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And yeah, there's gonna be DNA too. Yeah, I think
there's gonna be a DNA. I don't know what purpose
it will necessarily serve, but they I guess as a
confirmatory test. And I think that they said they were
running DNA. So you're going to get that off of
the h And let's just say, like, for instance, that
kind bar that you mentioned, let's see, I know, because
(19:48):
it's something you just told me. You're You're a big
fan of Reese's cups, aren't you.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I dig them too. So most of
the time when we eat our If you eat a
Reese's cup, okay, do you when you you actually have
it in the cut, you know, the little paper cup, right,
do you take it completely out of the cup or
do you peel the cup back and then take a
bite of it and then roll it back up in
the cup, or do you just completely extricate it from that.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
You actually take it out of the wrapper. I've never
been able to wait that long. I just I suck
the whole thing down. I eat that brown wrapper. Man,
can't help me.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
However, think about a candy ball.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah, you peel it off, Yeah, but you do you
peel it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Out like a banana. Right, you guess what you do
if you're feeling it like a banana, Well, you can
actually leave spittle the interior of that wrapper. And again
that's a that's a sort of area for DNA.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
When you were telling me about the Reese's peanut butter
cup right then, all I was thinking of the most
frustrating thing of eating those is when you do peel
it off, there the little cup it sitting in, and
you realize there's some chocolate that's.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
In the bottom, and it's like, it's to deal with that.
I feel like I'm such a child. I'm gonna lick
that if nobody's looking.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
You know, I'm not telling no man. If you do it,
God speed go with you.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
But but yeah, I mean they're gonna look, they're gonna
look for and again that goes to this, it's gonna
be funny. As careful as this individual alleged perpetrator has
apparently been from what we've been told, what we've seen,
it's you know, the devil again is in the details,
(21:26):
you know, those little things that you that you leave
behind that you just did not you didn't count on
for whatever reason. And I still I'm still not completely
convinced that maybe some people want to be caught that manifesto, Dave.
(21:59):
I tell you, man, it is going to be picked
down to the bone from all types of behaviorists that
are out there. You know, I'm sure that the people
that do psychological profiling are salivating over the scene to
see what kind of nuggets, you know, that they can
kind of conjure up out of the scene to develop,
(22:22):
you know, some type of understanding. Because one of the
biggest things about this case, and something that you had
said from the top of the show that I did
not read until today that was quite amazing to me.
It's the fact that he was not a customer of
(22:42):
United Healthcare. And I'm thinking, what's your beef at this
point in time, what's your beef? Did you suddenly manifest
this beef as you're luxuriating on the beautiful sand beaches
in Hawaii?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, Joe, when you say you know, where's the beef?
That's actually been bottom line for all of law enforcement,
you know, what was the point, why did he pick
Brian Thompson, and why did he pick it at that time? Actually,
the timing maybe oddly pointed out that he in his
Spiral notebook he talks about how he procrastinated, So this
(23:19):
has been something he'd been planning for some time, long
enough that he could have procrastinated and learned. More to
the federal criminal complaint that has been unsealed. Now he's
charged with murder through the use of a firearm, two
stocking charges in firearms offense, and he actually can now
face the death penalty if he's found guilty of the
federal murder charges. The state charges carry a maximum penalty
(23:40):
of life in prison without the possibility of parole. Prosecutors
have not indicated whether they're going to seek the death penalty.
That decision would ultimately need to be approved by the
US Attorney General. Of course, he faces charges in Pennsylvania
due to the three D printed firearm false IDs he had,
and the state and federal trials are going to work
in parallel, according to the Manhattan DA's office, and the
(24:02):
state trial will come before his federal trial. So that
kind of lays out what we're looking at the push
for the federal charges came from the US Attorney's office
multiple law enforcement sources to confirm this already. Because the
FBI was already involved in the investigation, assisting the NYPD
with out of town leads, the FBI agents were asked
(24:25):
to draw up the federal complaint based on evidence collected
by the NYPD, detectives working on the state charges, and
police in Pennsylvania who arrested Mangonies. See, you've got multiple
state and local agencies working to provide information for the
FBI that would be used in filing the federal charges.
The federal prosecutors say that they have jurisdiction in the
(24:47):
case because Manngoni's travel in interstate commerce. He took a
bus from Atlanta to New York prior to the killing.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
He then used the.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Interstate facilities using cell phone and the internet to plan
and carry out the stalking, shooting, and killing of Thompson
in Manhattan. One other thing to look at this is
that spiral notebook that Mangoni had when he was when
he was caught and when they took a look at this,
(25:16):
and it really did bring out something. The writing in
the notebook helped investigators build the federal case against him,
it ended up being a well planned homicide involving stalking
the movements of his alleged victim. There was an entry
in the Spiral notebook dated August fifteenth that reads, quote
the details are finally coming together unquote now according to
(25:39):
the federal complaint, it also says, I'm glad in a
way that I've procrastinated. Mangoni allegedly wrote in this notebook
he's you know that it gave him time to learn
more about the company he was targeting, and then they
redacted the name of the company. Could have been a
company any other than the one that Brian Thompson was
(26:01):
the CEO. I don't know, but the notebook actually says this,
The target is insurance because it checks every box. The
notebook also contained several handwritten pages that express hostility towards
the health insurance industry and wealthy executives, in particular.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
You want to know where's the beef. Maybe there's the beef.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You know, I don't know, I mean, why why Brian Thompson?
Was he an easy target? Was he somebody that had
singled out? Did he read something in the news, you know,
you talked about the stock thing and all the sorts
of things, and I don't even know if that was
necessarily broadly known. And I think the other thing that's
(26:46):
really kind of fascinating about this, they've talked about how
information was contained in there in the manifesto. I believe
correct me if I'm wrong where he said he did
not want to use a bomb because he didn't want
to harm innocence. David, I'm wondering. I'm really wondering, and
I hope that they do this or there are other
(27:06):
people on the list. Was Brian Thompson just the easiest
person to get to, you know?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
You know, Joe, we have danced around the manifesto, but
we've got one here that, based on everything we've seen
thus far, this is it. So here is the manifesto. Okay,
to the best of our ability to confirm.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
This is it. This is what it says.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Quote to the FEDS. I'll keep this short because I
do respect what you do for our country. To save
you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't
working with anyone. This was fairly trivial, some elementary social engineering,
basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook if present,
(27:51):
has some straggling notes and to do lists that illuminate
the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down
because I work in engineering, so probably not much info there.
I do apologize for any strife of traumas, but it
had to be done. United is the indecipherable largest company
in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart.
(28:15):
It has grown and grown, but has our life expectancy.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
The reality is these indecipherable have simply gotten too powerful,
and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit
because the American public has allowed them to get away
with it. Obviously, the problem is more complex, but I
did not have space, and frankly I did not pretend
to be the most qualified person to lay out the
(28:40):
full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed E.
G Rosenthal more decades ago, and the problem simply remain.
It is not an issue of awareness at this point,
but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the
first to face it with such brutal honesty. That is
(29:03):
the manifesto.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
One of the other things that I've heard is that
a lot of these people that occupy these spaces now
at other healthcare companies have scrubbed their biographical information. Now
they've completely come down. You know, their LinkedIn stuff is
not available, you know, and I guarantee you the security
apparatus that surrounds these individuals has been kicked up. I'm
(29:27):
still to this, you know. I see these I see
these movie stars that are on television and listen, or
that are walking the carpet and all this stuff, and
they've got these huge you know, they look like they're
probably former special operations people, you know, with dark sunglasses
and you know, all beefed up and everything. And listen.
(29:48):
I'm not trying to degrade these individuals as human beings,
but from a value standpoint, and what type of anger
people might have directed at these individuals, maybe because of
some kind of tweet that they made or something. That's
nothing compared to the anger that people have directed at
people in the healthcare industry, in the health insurance industry.
(30:09):
Because you've got people out there that have sustained pain
and it's a longgoing and they've had to mortgage their
homes and all these sorts of things. And I'm really thinking,
why didn't this guy have a security detail? At least
one guy with him. Why was there not somebody walking
on his shoulder, you know, as he is going down
the street. Why had the street not been checked out?
(30:32):
Why and the door been checked out? Because that's a
common thing, protecting a principle as they're walking along. I'm
really wondering about that. I've done some digging and the
person that's in charge of the security internationally for United
Healthcare was hired back in twenty twenty three, and I'm
sure that there have probably been a myriad of questions
(30:55):
that have been asked of that individual. But here's the
story moving forward. My partner Dave and I have spent
I guess the past week probably now many hours covering
this case. Dave has done all of this hard work
(31:15):
for Nancy Grace. I've covered it on multiple other platforms.
This is not the end of the story. This is
only the beginning, and I urge each and every one
of you to keep your eye on the news because
there has already been another threat and another arrest made
in regards to someone that has threatened somebody else in
(31:38):
the healthcare industry. I pray, I pray that we're not
going to see any copycats out there. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is bodybacks.
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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