December 26, 2023 • 38 mins
Happy holidays from Born to Love! This episode Ellie and Scott share some of their favorite holiday movies. Ellie watches Scott's favorite holiday movie, Die Hard and Scott watches Ellie's, Meet me in St. Louis. We hear about Scott’s appreciation of dark comedy, Ellie’s confusion around violence in movies, and some strong stances on Die Hard's classification as a Christmas movie.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hope, hope, hope on the ball too. Oh. Scott Santa
joined me for a duet for our holiday edition of
Born to Love.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Ooh, Merry Christmas. I guess that Christmas just happened yesterday
by the time listeners reading this, But it's coming up
for you and me, Ellie, Hanukah, Kwanza, New Year's, all
of the holidays. That's a holiday season and I'm excited.
Are you excited? Ellie?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I love the holidays. You would have thought maybe because
sometimes I like to play up my grump side, but
actually I'm not a grinch. I do love the holidays.
It's a stressful season. As the first adjective I used
to describe the holiday season, I love.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I no grinch. I think the holidays are stressful.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, in case anyone was listening and thought, oh boy,
this is gonna be a Susie Sunshow on Merry Snowflake
kind of thing, I'm with you, guys. I understand stress
levels are high. I also understand if you get a
chance to spend time with friends and family, isn't that
a blessing? Scott, this is our podcast Born to Love Now.
(01:16):
Usually every week we have someone come on the show.
And talk about something they love. But you know what,
it's the holidays. People are on vacation, people are traveling,
people are making cookies. Today we have a very special
edition of our show where you and I are going
to talk about holiday movies.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
That's right. I'm absolutely thrilled for this. We gave each
other our favorite holiday movies to watch, and it turned
out that you had not seen my favorite holiday movie
and I had not seen your favorite holiday movie. So
we just watched them for the first time each other's.
My favorite holiday movie is die Hard, which you had
(01:57):
never seen in your favorite holiday movie? What is it?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Meet me and said Louis Louis. It's Meet Me in
Saint Louis, the iconic and definitive Christmas movie.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
For those of you, for those any other that laughter
should should convey something to you listeners, for those of
you not familiar with it, Meet Me and Saint Louis
is a nineteen forty four Judy Garland movie during which
Christmas is a very small part.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Christmas comes at the very end.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
It's not even quite at the very end. It's three
quarters of the way through.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
But Scott, if anything else comes to my mind when
I think Christmas movie. I can't think of it met
me and Saint Louis is one of the first ones
that comes to mind. It makes me so happy. I
watch it every year at Christmas.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I mean, I'm absolutely thrilled to talk about it. We're
going to talk about both. Let's start with Diehard. I
think a movie maybe more of our listeners have heard.
It's the Bruce Willis Joint nineteen eighties action thriller John
McClain trapped in a skyscraper full of terrorists on Christmas Eve. Ellie,
I'm dying to know what did you think of it?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Okay, so I have to tell you now. You can
tell right there what I thought of it if anyone
ever answers, Okay, Okay, now listen, listen. I'm one of
the few people probably in the country who was born
in nineteen eighty that's me who actually hasn't seen this movie.
I feel that it's been brought up many times in
my life. There was an office episode about Diehard. I
(03:29):
still hadn't seen it. I never ever wanted to watch it,
because I have to tell you, I'm not usually that
into action movies. I do like speed. We talked about
that with Jenni Fisher on our first episode, I don't go.
I don't actively seek action movies. Okay, so that's why
(03:49):
I hadn't watched it yet. Okay, Now listen, Sometimes, I
mean often, I feel like an alien. And when I'm
watching these things that are so beloved and critically acclaimed
and also like popularly acclaimed, I'm thinking, what is wrong
with me? I don't get it. I'm like, I'm sort
(04:13):
of forcing myself to pay attention. I'm like pinching my
arm to stay awake. Scott, don't hear me out.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I did wait, I have to interrupt, Jelly. Are you
describing your general reaction or is this your actual lived
experience of watching Diehard? Was pinching yourself to stay awake?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It was pinching myself to stay focused because I kept
thinking of other things I could be doing. Scott, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
At no point in that movie did I feel sweaty?
Did it was my heart racing? Did I feel anxious
for Bruce Willis or Badelia? What's her name? Bonnie? What
the wife?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
The wife's name is Holly? Because college so a Christmas movie? Yes?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Oh, also so so for for those of you listening.
Most people know there is controversy, Oh is Diehard a
Christmas movie or not? Unequivocally yes, of course it is.
Her name's Holly is on Christmas Eve. The song playing
at the end of the whole movie is like, let
it snow. I think.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I think that's correct, as the bearer bonds are raining down,
and there's also like, the most important song is Ode
to Joy, the Christmas song and Dun Dun Dun, Dun Dun.
And my favorite part of that whole movie is they
break into the vault. The terrorist slash robbers break into
the vault and they see all of the money and
their eyes light and the Ode to Joy's playing. Yeah,
(05:36):
and then the guy goes Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
By now Alan Rickman, who I think a lot of
people know from the Harry Potter movies.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Right, Yeah, he's I haven't.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Seen that many of Harry Potter. No, he is either
I am an alien come to my planet. But his
performance is exquisite. Nobody can argue with that. I did
some research after I saw the movie. I see that
this is the movie that made him a star, and
I fully support it because he's phenomenal in the movie. Okay,
(06:09):
when he's posing as a layman as like an escaped hostage.
Thought I literally was.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Like wait, wait, wait, wait wait.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I was like, is that actually an escape hostage? His
little transformation into acting like a normal person.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Was when you were when you were asking yourself, is
that actually an escaped hostage? Is that because you were
confused because you had nodded off and forgot who was who?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Maybe no, and listen. The other thing about Bruce willis
in that movie, I don't know what to do with
his performance because it's like really funny, but he's also heroic,
but he's making like horrible jokes the whole time. And
I also read some stuff that was like, oh, you know,
Arnold Schwarzenegger passed on it, Sylvester Stallone passed on the
(06:56):
role of John McLean. And it was like really of
revolutionary or just I guess different that they had, you know,
a non action star star as an action star. They
had like someone who wasn't known for being an action
hero star as the hero of that movie. And one
look at his bare chest and you're like, how is
(07:17):
he not an action star? He's like muscled to the
you know, gills. So anyway, his performance the the.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Listeners, Ellie is I've never in my entire life seen
such a cauldron of emotion on your face. I feel
like you seem really tortured by this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Because the thing is that it's an eighties movie. So
I'm keeping that in mind, and I'm thinking, well, if
this were nineteen eighty eight and I was eight years
old and I was going to the theaters to see this.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I mean there's a lot of swearing and cocaine and
sex and killing. So if you were eight years old
seeing it, and I don't know, I would question the
parenting choices, Scott.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
What I would love is the if, what would be
the grand revelation that actually my parents took me to
see Diehard in this summer of Sorry, if you don't
know my parents, that's not something that wouldn't have happened. Okay,
so it's funny to imagine now. But Scott, the thing
is also so when I'm in I've tried to put
(08:22):
myself in that zone because it was like such a
huge hit, right, It made millions and millions and millions
of dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It was like a yes, a lot of science hit.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yes, were people in nineteen eighty eight, like were they
fooled more? I guess what I'm trying to ask is like,
as a twenty twenty three viewer of the movie, I
don't feel at all anxious. I feel no adrenaline or
anything watching the movie. Do you think I would have
(08:53):
in the eighties?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, it depends on whether this version of you watching
in the eighties is a normal person or apparently an
alien as a soulless weirdo hates it? Right?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean it's I think that
it's it's eighties noss. I don't find so alienating. I
think that it's almost timeless. I would say, I would
say that the consensus is it holds up. Well, it's not.
It's not like some movies that that are are are
dated in an uncomfortable way. Would you? I mean, I
think that the truth is, if you were to see
(09:34):
an action movie from twenty twenty three that was as
critically acclaimed as Diehard, you probably wouldn't enjoy it either.
Do you think that?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Oh, so that's interesting, Scott, that's a very good consideration.
I don't watch a lot of action movies.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Now, wait, is there an action movie apart from Speed
that you liked.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Oh is dances with Wolves.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
With Wolves doesn't count?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Dances with Wolves is in an action movie the Buffalo
riding the Horses.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I haven't seen a ton of action movies. Yeah, what
else is an action movie? What's the thing I've seen?
We're Oh, I know, like you know the documentaries when
they're climbing the mountains those.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
My heart is, Yeah, an action movie like one of
those documentaries.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know of Mount Everest.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
No, I think you're just not. I think you're a
hard time connecting to action movies and if you were
an action movie kind ofseur I. I think that one
of the things you might recognize about Diehard is that,
as far as action movies go, there's actually a little
bit more heart and character in Diehard than we've come
to expect. So one of the things, yes, go on, Ellie.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
No, no you again? You just got me there, Because
I think the friendship between Al I think is his
name the cop and John McLean played by Bruce Willis,
is heartwarming. We see that thread all the way through.
We see Al who once unfortunately shot at thirteen year old,
then as a shooting a terrorist and his relationship with
(11:13):
shooting people has come full circle.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
His arc is a little strange. His arc is Chris
Catharsis is I'm able to murder people again.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
And he couldn't be more triumphant in a very sweet way.
He's buying his pregnant wife just like bags of twinkies
to nourish her and the baby in her inside and
so anyway, but it's a sweet friendship. Nonetheless, also wasn't
mad as a woman. I was not mad at seeing
(11:45):
Holly as second in command of the corporation.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Now Kotoony Corporation.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
See, that's why I made a bad prediction, because I
thought that you might sneaky like this movie, and clearly
I was wrong. I thought that you might appreciate the
John McClain and Holly relationship because the truth of the
matter is that this is an interesting marriage one where
she's quote unquote wearing the pants and guess what, maybe
(12:12):
this is part of the eighties element. He doesn't like it.
John McClain is he's upset that his wife is so
successful and that she's taken the kids all the way
across the country, and he he doesn't want to play
second fiddle in the family, and then it's only through
you know, the experience of killing a bunch of terrorists
at her place of work that that he basically discovers
(12:33):
the errors of his ways and fixes his marriage, at
least for a Diehard one. In the sequels it's a
little bleaker, but but do they.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Not stay together?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
She's in die Hard too, and then in Diehard three
she's she's not even in it. She's like, oh, yeah, no, no,
she's out of the picture. But but it's very heartwarming,
I think in in in the first Diehard the important one,
and and his catharsism again maybe a little dated, maybe
a little sort of uh old school man's man kind
(13:02):
of thing. I'm somewhat moved by his confession over the
walkie talkie. He says, Oh, my wife, she's heard me
tell her I love her a thousand times, but she's
never heard me say I'm sorry. And when he thinks
he's gonna die, he says, al, I need you to
tell this to my wife. That's like, especially given the
(13:24):
bar of an action movie, pretty great.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, Scott, you remember the quote and I didn't, So
that just goes to show how much you love it
and how much I nodded off during it, but that no,
I wasn't not enough during it.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But you were teaching myself successfully.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I absolutely believe you that as far as action movies go,
this one had a lot more heart than the average one.
Of course, you show kids in any movie, you've got me.
I mean, I didn't love that John McClain like hadn't
seen his kids in was it six months?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Then?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I mean what that was strange to me because he
could have and he didn't. But all of that aside,
I haven't seen Diehard two, die Hard three. They are
writing off out of Century City, presumably to wherever they live,
Studio City. I don't know where they live. They didn't,
I don't think they mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I don't think they mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, but anyway, so he is going to go home
it's Christmas, and then it's gonna be Christmas Day. What
I also liked about this movie, I do think it
was sort of poking fun, not poking fun at itself,
but I mean some of the lines were so I
think self aware in a good in a charming way. Scott,
I didn't hate the movie, but it was sort of
(14:38):
what I expected. I don't understand and this is a
different subject. And now everyone will be like, ugh, I
don't know, Simpleton or not Simpleton. I don't know what
they'll say. They'll say something I don't understand violence in movies.
And I'm not saying that from anything other than like,
I'm like watching it and I'm thinking, why do I
(14:59):
have to watch?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I get it? You know what, There's some people who
are into watching dudes get shot through tables and thrown
out of buildings, and there are other people who don't.
And you know that's okay, I think, especially especially for
a Christmas movie, if you don't want to watch people
get machine gunned. It's hard for me to say you're wrong, Ellie.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But the thing is, I think thank you. The thing is,
whenever you're starting to feel like, oh, I've had enough,
like I understand the blood, the violence, the shooting, all
of this, you see Alan Rickman, like you know, you
see him, his face get back up there on the screen,
and you're hooked again. I mean, his performance is fantastic.
I'm not taking away from anyone else's performance either. Everybody,
(15:44):
oh not everybody was good in that movie. The you know,
the cocaine guy who tries to who what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Holly's like, Yeah, the guy who's trying to sit to
sleep with John McLean's wife. Holly, Yeah, Yeah, he's nasty,
gets he gets his come up and so he get shot.
He get shot in the head.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
He gets shot, But I'm not sure he was good.
What I'm saying is like, was he convincing? Like? Did
I believe that that person was that person? I don't know.
I fully believe that Alan Rickman was that terrorist.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know, maybe it's time to transition to your movie,
which I've been I watched this movie just last night,
and I have whoa been on ping. Wanted it to
(16:36):
be fresh, wanted it to be as fresh as possible.
Also maybe kind of procrastinating because I was not looking
forward to watching this movie, this nineteen forty four Junior
Garland movie. I thought that it was black and white
because all the photos are black and white. In fact,
is in beautiful technicolor. Yeah, Ellie, how would you summarize
the story of this movie? And then I'll give you
my my big, big reaction to it.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I haven't seen the movie in a while, but it
is tattooed in my memory, So I would summarize the
story as a well, what the movie is about. It's
about family. Okay, it's about family and that no matter
where you are, if you're together, you're a family. And
in this digital age, you can still be you know,
far flung, but you can still be a family. That's
(17:23):
how I would summarize the movie. The movie is about
a family in Saint Louis at the turn of the
century nineteen oh four, I think nineteen oh three to
nineteen oh four. It's about a family's you know, ups
and downs and adventures and mostly love and romance set
in Saint Louis, Missouri, where I am from. And there's
a there's a moment when they think because the dad
(17:46):
gets a new job in New York City and he's
going to have to move the whole family there, and
everybody is upset and sad because they like Saint Louis,
you know, they like it. Well, the dad decides spoiler alert,
the dad decides he can't move his family out of St.
Louis because they love it so much.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
So, m yeah, no, that's right. I think that perfect
encapsulation from someone who loves the film. One of the
stumbling box I think is that there's not a lot
of story. It's it's so kind of it's it's a
series of vignettes. It is that from the nineteen oh
(18:22):
three about a family in Saint Louis. The tone of
it really did remind me a lot of like a
Little Women or a Jane Austen book or something. It's
it's it's it's centered on sisters, especially who are who
are kind of pining for for a husband and their misadventures.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Let me interrupt to say this movie is dated, Like
I'm not saying, oh, this is a model of how
you know, this is how stories should be told.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
As let me interrupt you, Ellie, I kind of loved it.
You don't have to make upgies for this movie. I
mean calling it daated. It's from another era, of course,
and obviously the relationships between men and women and families
and all it has changed. But in the same way
that you could appreciate Jane Austen or Little Women, I
think people could appreciate Meet Me in Saint Louis. I
(19:16):
think it's moreover. One of the things that I found
most charming about this movie, I think is that it
was made in nineteen forty four, right, Yes, and it's
about nineteen oh four. Yes, they are kind of making
so the contemporary storytellers, filmmakers, whatever, are kind of making
fun of how old fashioned and funny the people forty
(19:41):
years earlier were, and that comedy still plays. So, for example,
there's a scene early on where they're expecting a phone
call from New York and it's the scene lasts forever.
It's like a five minute scene between one of the
sisters and her and her bow in New York and
like neither of them know how to use the telephone yep,
(20:05):
and it's played for yucks. And I got to say,
my experience of watching this movie was I'm not really
looking forward to an eighty year old movie about some
sisters in Saint Louis. That's just the truth, right, And
it completely won me over. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it,
but I was thoroughly entertained.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Did Vanessa watch it with you?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Vanessa did not watch it. My kids came in and out.
My son Jack, who is nine years old, he was
sort of entranced. He kept popping in and out. He
really didn't want to like this movie, but he liked it.
And both Jack and I shared the same favorite character.
And I bet you can guess who it is. Ellie.
(20:49):
Who's do you remember the movie well enough to remember
the sisters?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Oh? Yeah, well you loved is it Trudy the youngest sister.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Trudy, the youngest sister, is named Tooty and listeners, Totty
is an I think she might be my favorite child
in the history of cinema. This little girl is maybe nine,
maybe eight, something like that, and she's got a morbid
fascination with death and killing. The first time we meet her,
(21:19):
she's talking to like a like a wagon driver or
something about how her doll has four terminal illnesses, it's
gonna is gonna die and need to be buried tonight.
And I and I was sitting there thinking what is
going on with this little girl? And that is like
literally all she talks about for the entire movie. Every
(21:41):
scene she comes in, she's like, yeah, I gotta dig
up my door. When they when we're gonna move to
New York, She's like, I gotta dig up all my
dolls from the cemetery. She is hysterical. She talks like
out of nowhere. At dinner, she's like, hey, mom, mom,
so and so got shot with splirting blood for three feet.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. She's like she
is fascinated by morbid details. She's also an incredible actress.
Margaret O'Brien is her name. The actress's name, you remember that? No,
I looked it up just now. She couldn't have been
older than five or six filming it, and I got it.
And she is adorable. And she's also very funny.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
She's hysterical, and the writing is very funny for her.
I need to I'm gonna you already spoil the end
of the movie always, so I'm gonna spoil the middle
of the movie.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yes, spoiler.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
So Judy Garland. For those of you who may not
remember who that is, she's Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz. Right,
you want to be really reductive. Dorothy from the Wizard
of Oz is looking to hook up. That's what the
movie's about. She falls in love with her next door neighbor,
whom she's never met, and she basically schemes to try
(22:56):
to like win him, right. Yeah, and it's really fun
and very charming, et cetera. Now, a big complication in
the middle of the movie is that this young girl,
Toody gets hit by a swaggon or streetcar. Some she
is horrible accident, almost dies. Everyone's freaking out. They're like,
oh my god, is she gonna die? Call the doctor.
(23:19):
She's like terribly wounded. She ends up needing stitches and
they're like, what happened, toody, And she's screaming and shrieking,
and she's like, what is the neighbor's name? The boy?
This is the kind of movie where you don't even
know the name of the guy she's in love with,
because we don't really care about the guy. We only
care about the sisters, which is a compliment I'm paying
(23:41):
the film.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
His name is John Truett.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
That's right, John Truett. So she's like, John Truett tried
to murder me. John Truett tried to and everyone's like,
what the fuck is going on? And then Judy Garland
discovers that the love of her life tried to at
worst purposefully kill, but at least horribly hurt her younger sister,
(24:03):
and she storms over and she punches John Truett right
in the fin face. She just knocks him out, and
so all of this is like, whoa, this is a
lot that was in the movie that was formerly like
spending five minutes on how the telephone works. All of
a sudden, there's a lot happening, And the most hysterical
(24:27):
part is we discover the true story. Guess what she
was not was not an attempted murder at the hands
of John Truett. Instead, the truth is much crazier. She
Toody was trying to derail a streetcar. There's a streetcar
(24:48):
we see ding Ding ding Go's the trolley is a
song that they sing in this movie on the streetcar.
We've seen it. It's a double decker street car. It's
got dozens of people on it. This little girl was
trying to derail it.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Now, I mean she's a devil.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
She is a devil. She's a devil. She was trying
to derail it. She wanted it to go off the tracks.
She wanted people to get hurt. The way that she
tries to derail it. Ellie, do you remember how she
tries to derail the streetcar. No, she stuffs clothes full
of straw or something, and she throws this it's it's
(25:26):
like a scarecrow. It's a body. She throws a fake
body on the tracks to try to get the streetcar
man to think that he's about to kill somebody. Yeah,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Scott, I had forgotten that detail. That is I don't
even know if this was adapted from a book or
a I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I looked it up and it's adapted from like a
series of short stories, which makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That makes a ton of sense. It is for different
vignettes according to the season. That does make much more sense.
There is no cohesive plot really, except for it's a
Christmas movie. That she is Two D is a fantastic character.
I don't know what Margaret O'Brien. I don't know much
about her career as she got older. I'm ashamed to
(26:10):
say I don't know very much about Margaret.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I don't know much about her. But I have two
other fun facts that I want to share from this
movie about two D. Okay, she sings a song in
the movie. There's a lot of songs. This is her
only one, right. The only reason, the only fig leaf
that you have that this is a Christmas movie is
(26:32):
that what is the Christmas song?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Have yourself a mary Little Christmas?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I have yourself a marry little Christmas. That song was
written for this movie, so in that sense, it's a
Christmas movie. But the point is they all do a
lot of singing two D sings. It's a musical song.
It's a musical two D sings exactly one song. Her
song is I was drunk again last night. Mother. She's six,
(26:56):
she's six years old. Well, she's an old six and
obviously she's got very old soul. The character talking about
being drunk again, it was so funny. And then the
last thing is that there's a whole Halloween sequence, which
is kind of terrifying because they this is like pre
trick or treat. This was just trick. This is where
the kids would get in costumes and they just like
(27:17):
they're like a mob. And I'm not joking. There's like
a big bonfire in the middle of the street and
they just throw furniture into the fire and they're like, yeah,
it's insane. But do you know what her costume is?
H No, it is Tudy's costume is And they say
this out loud, drunken ghost.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Oh my gosh, I do listen. Toty is the youngest
of I think five children her. She has an older brother,
two old and three older sisters, and they are old.
One of them I think is like twenty, right, he
goes to Princeton or something. The other two women are
nineteen and seventeen, so I mean she's been around alcohol
(28:02):
and presumably, I don't know, maybe ghosts. So like there's
a reason she's so grown up, I guess. But her
performance is fantastic. I have to tell you one of
my favorite lines from that movie, which is when the
dad comes home from work and he comes into the
dining room and he tells the cook I can't remember
(28:22):
her name, but Susan, I love that cabbage. I can
smell it when I get off the trolley. And the
cook responds, cabbage has a cabbage smell. Cabbage has a
cabbage smell. Yes it does. She's just over it. She's like,
I don't need to make small talk with you. Great,
you can smell the cabbage. It's my job to make
(28:43):
it for you.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
The dad is pretty hilarious too, and I love that that.
Like that the whole movie, The whole story is just
kind of setting him up as a as a clueless adult.
Like nobody in the nobody in the family really pays.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Much attention to well, no he has a thankless a
role in the family and he's just there for to
provide money. And also he's yeah, nobody listens to him.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Nobody listens to him. And but this is a payoff
at the very end of the movie. But but but
her older Judy Garland's older sister also is trying to
get married, and there's this one guy that seems too
sort of stumble mouthed to actually ask her. And then
in the very end of the movie, he barges in
and he goes and you and I are gonna get married.
And that's the last time I'm gonna hear of it, right,
(29:30):
which is, Oh wow, this guy's kind of finally grown
a spine and he's made the older sister's dreams come true.
It's a it's a sweet little moment. But the funniest
part is the dad goes, who's that and there and
then the reaction of the entire family is like, we'll
tell you later.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Oh yeah, no, it's it's and you know Scott. Of course,
that movie was directed by Vincent Minnelli, who was at
some point Judy Garland's husband, so I don't know if
that happened. I'm looking it up. I don't know if
that happened when they were filming the movie, or if
that's where they met and fell in love. I'm sure
this is a fairly well known fact. But they met
(30:09):
on the set of Strike Up the Band. Oh, and
then they got married in June nineteen forty five, So
they got married after meebe in Saint Louis. But they
were now listen, so they Oh.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
They're making a movie about falling in love. Wow. Probably
in actual effect, they themselves were falling in love. I
don't know that I necessarily see that on the screen.
I can tell you I enjoyed the directing of the film,
and her performance is sublime. Yes, yeah, Well, what do
you like so much about this movie, Ellie, I've got
my Well, Judy.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Garland is just fantastic and endlessly watchable. I mean, I
love her performance, of course I do. Are you thinking, oh,
did she pick it because she's from Saint Louis. In fact, no,
it also I watched it a lot growing up. It
was like the one of the few movies I watched
that Ferris Bueller's Day Off that was about it. So
I watched this He's growing up. So it's also something
(31:00):
that reminds me of childhood. But I just think that
it's it's a classic. I like the songs. I think
it's you know, beautifully directed. I love the characters. Of course,
it's dated. It's from nineteen forty four, about characters in
nineteen oh three. You know, it's no die Hard.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
It's definitely no die Hard.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Meet Me in Saint Louis is no die Hard. I
mean they are different movies. But I you know, I
also think it's a very funny movie for the reasons.
You pointed out the dynamics between the dad and the
rest of the family, the totally morbid six year old
twoty like she's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I'm interested, Ellie, and this is not There's no criticism
implied in any of this, but I am curious. Sounds
like you could watch this movie, which I think fair
to say that the pacing by modern standards is a
little easy going, right this is It's not like an
edge of your seat kind of film. And that's fine.
(32:05):
Like I said, I enjoyed it very much, But when
you at the beginning are like, I'm watching die Hard
and I'm trying to like stay awake, Yet you can't
you just can't get enough of. There's a running joke
at the beginning where they're just like, is the soup
too spicy? Is it too sweet? Yeah, it's salty, sour
(32:27):
like yeah, and it's fine. It's not bad, but it's
not gripping.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
No, there's no way being held hostage in a Los
Angeles skyscraper. No, but I'll tell you this. Maybe you're saying, oh,
how can Ellie sustain an interest in this? What we
said before? Every you know, thirty minutes is a new
movie because of the seasons. So it's like, it does
I'm not following the same terrorists taking over a Los
(32:55):
Angeles skyscraper the whole time I'm watching. Oh it's Halloween,
Oh it's Christmas. Oh it's the World's Fair. Oh it's
hot in this summertime.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah. No, it's got that episodic nature. It's like it's
like watching four episodes of Cheers, like right in a row.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Also, let's not forget that steamy scene where she's turning
off all the lights and John Truett is like helping
her turn off the lights in her house.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It she says, pretty steamy.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's so steamy. She's like, are they wait, what does
she say? She has to turn off all the lights
in her house before she goes to bed, and you
know it's nineteen oh three, so it's I mean, are
they candles?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I think they're gas. They seemed to be natural gas chandeliers.
So she had to go through one by one and
turn down each of the valves on like each chandelier
has I don't know, eight ten something multiple candles and
they had to turn the valves of each one and
it's very intimate and it's getting darker and darker, and
(33:57):
it worked for me for sure, where I was like,
these two gott it's going on.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
But then, but can we also talk about how John
Truett is absolutely the most boring man you've ever met
in your life. He's literally like, I left my suit
the tailor's during basketball practice.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
I love, I absolutely love that you remember this movie
so well. Yes, that's the crisis, The climactic crisis of
the entire film is that it is the Christmas dance.
They are going to leave Saint Louis forever the day
like literally the next day, like the day after Christmas
or whatever, And John Truett shows up and he's like, oh, shucks,
(34:38):
I can't go to the dance because I don't have
a tuxedo because he was at basketball practice too long
and he couldn't go to the tailor or something. And
she's like, oh, I guess I won't go either. Then
guess what spoiler? He does show up at the dance
with a tuxedo. Yeah, at the last minute. As far
as I can tell, I know explanation for how he
(34:58):
got the tuxedo.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
They never explain that. And guess who saves the day
in the meantime and tell John Trout shows up with
a mysterious tuxedo.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Well, I don't need a guess since I just saw
the movie, But why don't you tell us Grandpa Grandma?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, we haven't mentioned him yet. Grandpa. Of course, there's
a grandpa character who's just like sweet and totally like
made fun of and is I don't know if it's
the dad's dad or the mom's dad, but I think
he lives with them.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Right, he lives with them. He also has one of
the funny laughlines that I forget exactly why. But they're
worried that they're going to be in dangerer or the
dad is gonna leave or something, and the Grandpa is like,
I'll keep him safe. I've got twelve guns in my
bedroom dated dated, twelve guns in the Grandpa. I mean,
(35:46):
I'm imagining because I think, like I said, it's based
on these vignettes that I assume are so at least
semi autobiographical from whoever wrote them. And it's like, oh,
nineteen oh four, it's probably Grandpa is a Civil War veteran.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
He's got right do the man there.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, he's got a bunch of guns in his in
his upstairs bedroom. So but yeah, Grandpa saves the day.
He takes he takes Judy Garland to the dance.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Scott our holiday movies, Die Hard and Meet Me in
Saint Louis. So they want the you know, it's not
nobody watched the Santa Claus for this experiment. Nobody watched,
you know, the Grinch. But we did watch holiday movies
in our own way, and I think we can both
say we're glad we watched them.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I mean I can say that. I don't think you
can truth say that.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Any experience I have that brings me closer to what
humans experience makes me happy. So many people have seen
Die Hard and the next time it comes up at
the bar. You know, I go to the bar most nights.
The next time it comes up, I'll be like and
then John McLean, and I'll be able to just know
what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, you'll just be able to bust out the you
know what, Alan Rickman is great.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah. The fact that I know he was in that
movie now I feel I feel more confident. So I
am happy that I saw it. And I also, you know,
I do like movies set in cities. I'm not kidding.
I love it when the city is a character. This
(37:33):
is so stupid what I'm saying, but I happy.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
That's certainly true. And meet me in Saint Louis, the.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
City in Point Scott. I hope that you have a
happy holiday season. To all of our listeners out there,
we hope you have a healthy and safe holiday season
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
And as a as a special gift to yourself, maybe
before New Year's Eve, if you've got extra time, you
can sample either or both of these movies and let
us know what you think in Apple with a five
star review. Bye bye, thanks for listening to Born to Love.
(38:16):
We'll be back next week with brand new things that
we Love.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
We want to hear from you. Leave us a review
in Apple Podcasts, and tell us what you love. We
might even ask one of our guests in an upcoming
love it or loaded.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Born to Love is hosted and created by Ellie Kemper
and Scott Ecker.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Our executive producer is Aaron Cofman. Our producers are Sheena
Ozaki and Zoe Danklab.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Born to Love is part of Will Ferrell's Big Money
Players Network in collaboration with iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to
Hans Sonny.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Rachel Kaplan and Adrianna Cassiano
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Michael Fails, Alex Korl, and Baheed Frasier
Hope, hope, hope on the ball too. Oh. Scott Santa
joined me for a duet for our holiday edition of
Born to Love.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Ooh, Merry Christmas. I guess that Christmas just happened yesterday
by the time listeners reading this, But it's coming up
for you and me, Ellie, Hanukah, Kwanza, New Year's, all
of the holidays. That's a holiday season and I'm excited.
Are you excited? Ellie?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I love the holidays. You would have thought maybe because
sometimes I like to play up my grump side, but
actually I'm not a grinch. I do love the holidays.
It's a stressful season. As the first adjective I used
to describe the holiday season, I love.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I no grinch. I think the holidays are stressful.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, in case anyone was listening and thought, oh boy,
this is gonna be a Susie Sunshow on Merry Snowflake
kind of thing, I'm with you, guys. I understand stress
levels are high. I also understand if you get a
chance to spend time with friends and family, isn't that
a blessing? Scott, this is our podcast Born to Love Now.
(01:16):
Usually every week we have someone come on the show.
And talk about something they love. But you know what,
it's the holidays. People are on vacation, people are traveling,
people are making cookies. Today we have a very special
edition of our show where you and I are going
to talk about holiday movies.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
That's right. I'm absolutely thrilled for this. We gave each
other our favorite holiday movies to watch, and it turned
out that you had not seen my favorite holiday movie
and I had not seen your favorite holiday movie. So
we just watched them for the first time each other's.
My favorite holiday movie is die Hard, which you had
(01:57):
never seen in your favorite holiday movie? What is it?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Meet me and said Louis Louis. It's Meet Me in
Saint Louis, the iconic and definitive Christmas movie.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
For those of you, for those any other that laughter
should should convey something to you listeners, for those of
you not familiar with it, Meet Me and Saint Louis
is a nineteen forty four Judy Garland movie during which
Christmas is a very small part.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Christmas comes at the very end.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
It's not even quite at the very end. It's three
quarters of the way through.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
But Scott, if anything else comes to my mind when
I think Christmas movie. I can't think of it met
me and Saint Louis is one of the first ones
that comes to mind. It makes me so happy. I
watch it every year at Christmas.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I mean, I'm absolutely thrilled to talk about it. We're
going to talk about both. Let's start with Diehard. I
think a movie maybe more of our listeners have heard.
It's the Bruce Willis Joint nineteen eighties action thriller John
McClain trapped in a skyscraper full of terrorists on Christmas Eve. Ellie,
I'm dying to know what did you think of it?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Okay, so I have to tell you now. You can
tell right there what I thought of it if anyone
ever answers, Okay, Okay, now listen, listen. I'm one of
the few people probably in the country who was born
in nineteen eighty that's me who actually hasn't seen this movie.
I feel that it's been brought up many times in
my life. There was an office episode about Diehard. I
(03:29):
still hadn't seen it. I never ever wanted to watch it,
because I have to tell you, I'm not usually that
into action movies. I do like speed. We talked about
that with Jenni Fisher on our first episode, I don't go.
I don't actively seek action movies. Okay, so that's why
(03:49):
I hadn't watched it yet. Okay, Now listen, Sometimes, I
mean often, I feel like an alien. And when I'm
watching these things that are so beloved and critically acclaimed
and also like popularly acclaimed, I'm thinking, what is wrong
with me? I don't get it. I'm like, I'm sort
(04:13):
of forcing myself to pay attention. I'm like pinching my
arm to stay awake. Scott, don't hear me out.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I did wait, I have to interrupt, Jelly. Are you
describing your general reaction or is this your actual lived
experience of watching Diehard? Was pinching yourself to stay awake?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It was pinching myself to stay focused because I kept
thinking of other things I could be doing. Scott, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
At no point in that movie did I feel sweaty?
Did it was my heart racing? Did I feel anxious
for Bruce Willis or Badelia? What's her name? Bonnie? What
the wife?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
The wife's name is Holly? Because college so a Christmas movie? Yes?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Oh, also so so for for those of you listening.
Most people know there is controversy, Oh is Diehard a
Christmas movie or not? Unequivocally yes, of course it is.
Her name's Holly is on Christmas Eve. The song playing
at the end of the whole movie is like, let
it snow. I think.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I think that's correct, as the bearer bonds are raining down,
and there's also like, the most important song is Ode
to Joy, the Christmas song and Dun Dun Dun, Dun Dun.
And my favorite part of that whole movie is they
break into the vault. The terrorist slash robbers break into
the vault and they see all of the money and
their eyes light and the Ode to Joy's playing. Yeah,
(05:36):
and then the guy goes Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
By now Alan Rickman, who I think a lot of
people know from the Harry Potter movies.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Right, Yeah, he's I haven't.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Seen that many of Harry Potter. No, he is either
I am an alien come to my planet. But his
performance is exquisite. Nobody can argue with that. I did
some research after I saw the movie. I see that
this is the movie that made him a star, and
I fully support it because he's phenomenal in the movie. Okay,
(06:09):
when he's posing as a layman as like an escaped hostage.
Thought I literally was.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Like wait, wait, wait, wait wait.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I was like, is that actually an escape hostage? His
little transformation into acting like a normal person.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Was when you were when you were asking yourself, is
that actually an escaped hostage? Is that because you were
confused because you had nodded off and forgot who was who?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Maybe no, and listen. The other thing about Bruce willis
in that movie, I don't know what to do with
his performance because it's like really funny, but he's also heroic,
but he's making like horrible jokes the whole time. And
I also read some stuff that was like, oh, you know,
Arnold Schwarzenegger passed on it, Sylvester Stallone passed on the
(06:56):
role of John McLean. And it was like really of
revolutionary or just I guess different that they had, you know,
a non action star star as an action star. They
had like someone who wasn't known for being an action
hero star as the hero of that movie. And one
look at his bare chest and you're like, how is
(07:17):
he not an action star? He's like muscled to the
you know, gills. So anyway, his performance the the.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Listeners, Ellie is I've never in my entire life seen
such a cauldron of emotion on your face. I feel
like you seem really tortured by this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Because the thing is that it's an eighties movie. So
I'm keeping that in mind, and I'm thinking, well, if
this were nineteen eighty eight and I was eight years
old and I was going to the theaters to see this.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I mean there's a lot of swearing and cocaine and
sex and killing. So if you were eight years old
seeing it, and I don't know, I would question the
parenting choices, Scott.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
What I would love is the if, what would be
the grand revelation that actually my parents took me to
see Diehard in this summer of Sorry, if you don't
know my parents, that's not something that wouldn't have happened. Okay,
so it's funny to imagine now. But Scott, the thing
is also so when I'm in I've tried to put
(08:22):
myself in that zone because it was like such a
huge hit, right, It made millions and millions and millions
of dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It was like a yes, a lot of science hit.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yes, were people in nineteen eighty eight, like were they
fooled more? I guess what I'm trying to ask is like,
as a twenty twenty three viewer of the movie, I
don't feel at all anxious. I feel no adrenaline or
anything watching the movie. Do you think I would have
(08:53):
in the eighties?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well, it depends on whether this version of you watching
in the eighties is a normal person or apparently an
alien as a soulless weirdo hates it? Right?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean it's I think that
it's it's eighties noss. I don't find so alienating. I
think that it's almost timeless. I would say, I would
say that the consensus is it holds up. Well, it's not.
It's not like some movies that that are are are
dated in an uncomfortable way. Would you? I mean, I
think that the truth is, if you were to see
(09:34):
an action movie from twenty twenty three that was as
critically acclaimed as Diehard, you probably wouldn't enjoy it either.
Do you think that?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Oh, so that's interesting, Scott, that's a very good consideration.
I don't watch a lot of action movies.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Now, wait, is there an action movie apart from Speed
that you liked.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Oh is dances with Wolves.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
With Wolves doesn't count?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Dances with Wolves is in an action movie the Buffalo
riding the Horses.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I haven't seen a ton of action movies. Yeah, what
else is an action movie? What's the thing I've seen?
We're Oh, I know, like you know the documentaries when
they're climbing the mountains those.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
My heart is, Yeah, an action movie like one of
those documentaries.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know of Mount Everest.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
No, I think you're just not. I think you're a
hard time connecting to action movies and if you were
an action movie kind ofseur I. I think that one
of the things you might recognize about Diehard is that,
as far as action movies go, there's actually a little
bit more heart and character in Diehard than we've come
to expect. So one of the things, yes, go on, Ellie.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
No, no you again? You just got me there, Because
I think the friendship between Al I think is his
name the cop and John McLean played by Bruce Willis,
is heartwarming. We see that thread all the way through.
We see Al who once unfortunately shot at thirteen year old,
then as a shooting a terrorist and his relationship with
(11:13):
shooting people has come full circle.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
His arc is a little strange. His arc is Chris
Catharsis is I'm able to murder people again.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
And he couldn't be more triumphant in a very sweet way.
He's buying his pregnant wife just like bags of twinkies
to nourish her and the baby in her inside and
so anyway, but it's a sweet friendship. Nonetheless, also wasn't
mad as a woman. I was not mad at seeing
(11:45):
Holly as second in command of the corporation.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Now Kotoony Corporation.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Well.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
See, that's why I made a bad prediction, because I
thought that you might sneaky like this movie, and clearly
I was wrong. I thought that you might appreciate the
John McClain and Holly relationship because the truth of the
matter is that this is an interesting marriage one where
she's quote unquote wearing the pants and guess what, maybe
(12:12):
this is part of the eighties element. He doesn't like it.
John McClain is he's upset that his wife is so
successful and that she's taken the kids all the way
across the country, and he he doesn't want to play
second fiddle in the family, and then it's only through
you know, the experience of killing a bunch of terrorists
at her place of work that that he basically discovers
(12:33):
the errors of his ways and fixes his marriage, at
least for a Diehard one. In the sequels it's a
little bleaker, but but do they.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Not stay together?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
She's in die Hard too, and then in Diehard three
she's she's not even in it. She's like, oh, yeah, no, no,
she's out of the picture. But but it's very heartwarming,
I think in in in the first Diehard the important one,
and and his catharsism again maybe a little dated, maybe
a little sort of uh old school man's man kind
(13:02):
of thing. I'm somewhat moved by his confession over the
walkie talkie. He says, Oh, my wife, she's heard me
tell her I love her a thousand times, but she's
never heard me say I'm sorry. And when he thinks
he's gonna die, he says, al, I need you to
tell this to my wife. That's like, especially given the
(13:24):
bar of an action movie, pretty great.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, Scott, you remember the quote and I didn't, So
that just goes to show how much you love it
and how much I nodded off during it, but that no,
I wasn't not enough during it.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
But you were teaching myself successfully.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I absolutely believe you that as far as action movies go,
this one had a lot more heart than the average one.
Of course, you show kids in any movie, you've got me.
I mean, I didn't love that John McClain like hadn't
seen his kids in was it six months?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Then?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
I mean what that was strange to me because he
could have and he didn't. But all of that aside,
I haven't seen Diehard two, die Hard three. They are
writing off out of Century City, presumably to wherever they live,
Studio City. I don't know where they live. They didn't,
I don't think they mentioned it.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I don't think they mentioned it.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, but anyway, so he is going to go home
it's Christmas, and then it's gonna be Christmas Day. What
I also liked about this movie, I do think it
was sort of poking fun, not poking fun at itself,
but I mean some of the lines were so I
think self aware in a good in a charming way. Scott,
I didn't hate the movie, but it was sort of
(14:38):
what I expected. I don't understand and this is a
different subject. And now everyone will be like, ugh, I
don't know, Simpleton or not Simpleton. I don't know what
they'll say. They'll say something I don't understand violence in movies.
And I'm not saying that from anything other than like,
I'm like watching it and I'm thinking, why do I
(14:59):
have to watch?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I get it? You know what, There's some people who
are into watching dudes get shot through tables and thrown
out of buildings, and there are other people who don't.
And you know that's okay, I think, especially especially for
a Christmas movie, if you don't want to watch people
get machine gunned. It's hard for me to say you're wrong, Ellie.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
But the thing is, I think thank you. The thing is,
whenever you're starting to feel like, oh, I've had enough,
like I understand the blood, the violence, the shooting, all
of this, you see Alan Rickman, like you know, you
see him, his face get back up there on the screen,
and you're hooked again. I mean, his performance is fantastic.
I'm not taking away from anyone else's performance either. Everybody,
(15:44):
oh not everybody was good in that movie. The you know,
the cocaine guy who tries to who what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Holly's like, Yeah, the guy who's trying to sit to
sleep with John McLean's wife. Holly, Yeah, Yeah, he's nasty,
gets he gets his come up and so he get shot.
He get shot in the head.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
He gets shot, But I'm not sure he was good.
What I'm saying is like, was he convincing? Like? Did
I believe that that person was that person? I don't know.
I fully believe that Alan Rickman was that terrorist.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know, maybe it's time to transition to your movie,
which I've been I watched this movie just last night,
and I have whoa been on ping. Wanted it to
(16:36):
be fresh, wanted it to be as fresh as possible.
Also maybe kind of procrastinating because I was not looking
forward to watching this movie, this nineteen forty four Junior
Garland movie. I thought that it was black and white
because all the photos are black and white. In fact,
is in beautiful technicolor. Yeah, Ellie, how would you summarize
the story of this movie? And then I'll give you
my my big, big reaction to it.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I haven't seen the movie in a while, but it
is tattooed in my memory, So I would summarize the
story as a well, what the movie is about. It's
about family. Okay, it's about family and that no matter
where you are, if you're together, you're a family. And
in this digital age, you can still be you know,
far flung, but you can still be a family. That's
(17:23):
how I would summarize the movie. The movie is about
a family in Saint Louis at the turn of the
century nineteen oh four, I think nineteen oh three to
nineteen oh four. It's about a family's you know, ups
and downs and adventures and mostly love and romance set
in Saint Louis, Missouri, where I am from. And there's
a there's a moment when they think because the dad
(17:46):
gets a new job in New York City and he's
going to have to move the whole family there, and
everybody is upset and sad because they like Saint Louis,
you know, they like it. Well, the dad decides spoiler alert,
the dad decides he can't move his family out of St.
Louis because they love it so much.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
So, m yeah, no, that's right. I think that perfect
encapsulation from someone who loves the film. One of the
stumbling box I think is that there's not a lot
of story. It's it's so kind of it's it's a
series of vignettes. It is that from the nineteen oh
(18:22):
three about a family in Saint Louis. The tone of
it really did remind me a lot of like a
Little Women or a Jane Austen book or something. It's
it's it's it's centered on sisters, especially who are who
are kind of pining for for a husband and their misadventures.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Let me interrupt to say this movie is dated, Like
I'm not saying, oh, this is a model of how
you know, this is how stories should be told.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
As let me interrupt you, Ellie, I kind of loved it.
You don't have to make upgies for this movie. I
mean calling it daated. It's from another era, of course,
and obviously the relationships between men and women and families
and all it has changed. But in the same way
that you could appreciate Jane Austen or Little Women, I
think people could appreciate Meet Me in Saint Louis. I
(19:16):
think it's moreover. One of the things that I found
most charming about this movie, I think is that it
was made in nineteen forty four, right, Yes, and it's
about nineteen oh four. Yes, they are kind of making
so the contemporary storytellers, filmmakers, whatever, are kind of making
fun of how old fashioned and funny the people forty
(19:41):
years earlier were, and that comedy still plays. So, for example,
there's a scene early on where they're expecting a phone
call from New York and it's the scene lasts forever.
It's like a five minute scene between one of the
sisters and her and her bow in New York and
like neither of them know how to use the telephone yep,
(20:05):
and it's played for yucks. And I got to say,
my experience of watching this movie was I'm not really
looking forward to an eighty year old movie about some
sisters in Saint Louis. That's just the truth, right, And
it completely won me over. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it,
but I was thoroughly entertained.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Did Vanessa watch it with you?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Vanessa did not watch it. My kids came in and out.
My son Jack, who is nine years old, he was
sort of entranced. He kept popping in and out. He
really didn't want to like this movie, but he liked it.
And both Jack and I shared the same favorite character.
And I bet you can guess who it is. Ellie.
(20:49):
Who's do you remember the movie well enough to remember
the sisters?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Oh? Yeah, well you loved is it Trudy the youngest sister.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Trudy, the youngest sister, is named Tooty and listeners, Totty
is an I think she might be my favorite child
in the history of cinema. This little girl is maybe nine,
maybe eight, something like that, and she's got a morbid
fascination with death and killing. The first time we meet her,
(21:19):
she's talking to like a like a wagon driver or
something about how her doll has four terminal illnesses, it's
gonna is gonna die and need to be buried tonight.
And I and I was sitting there thinking what is
going on with this little girl? And that is like
literally all she talks about for the entire movie. Every
(21:41):
scene she comes in, she's like, yeah, I gotta dig
up my door. When they when we're gonna move to
New York, She's like, I gotta dig up all my
dolls from the cemetery. She is hysterical. She talks like
out of nowhere. At dinner, she's like, hey, mom, mom,
so and so got shot with splirting blood for three feet.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. She's like she
is fascinated by morbid details. She's also an incredible actress.
Margaret O'Brien is her name. The actress's name, you remember that? No,
I looked it up just now. She couldn't have been
older than five or six filming it, and I got it.
And she is adorable. And she's also very funny.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
She's hysterical, and the writing is very funny for her.
I need to I'm gonna you already spoil the end
of the movie always, so I'm gonna spoil the middle
of the movie.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yes, spoiler.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
So Judy Garland. For those of you who may not
remember who that is, she's Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz. Right,
you want to be really reductive. Dorothy from the Wizard
of Oz is looking to hook up. That's what the
movie's about. She falls in love with her next door neighbor,
whom she's never met, and she basically schemes to try
(22:56):
to like win him, right. Yeah, and it's really fun
and very charming, et cetera. Now, a big complication in
the middle of the movie is that this young girl,
Toody gets hit by a swaggon or streetcar. Some she
is horrible accident, almost dies. Everyone's freaking out. They're like,
oh my god, is she gonna die? Call the doctor.
(23:19):
She's like terribly wounded. She ends up needing stitches and
they're like, what happened, toody, And she's screaming and shrieking,
and she's like, what is the neighbor's name? The boy?
This is the kind of movie where you don't even
know the name of the guy she's in love with,
because we don't really care about the guy. We only
care about the sisters, which is a compliment I'm paying
(23:41):
the film.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
His name is John Truett.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
That's right, John Truett. So she's like, John Truett tried
to murder me. John Truett tried to and everyone's like,
what the fuck is going on? And then Judy Garland
discovers that the love of her life tried to at
worst purposefully kill, but at least horribly hurt her younger sister,
(24:03):
and she storms over and she punches John Truett right
in the fin face. She just knocks him out, and
so all of this is like, whoa, this is a
lot that was in the movie that was formerly like
spending five minutes on how the telephone works. All of
a sudden, there's a lot happening, And the most hysterical
(24:27):
part is we discover the true story. Guess what she
was not was not an attempted murder at the hands
of John Truett. Instead, the truth is much crazier. She
Toody was trying to derail a streetcar. There's a streetcar
(24:48):
we see ding Ding ding Go's the trolley is a
song that they sing in this movie on the streetcar.
We've seen it. It's a double decker street car. It's
got dozens of people on it. This little girl was
trying to derail it.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Now, I mean she's a devil.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
She is a devil. She's a devil. She was trying
to derail it. She wanted it to go off the tracks.
She wanted people to get hurt. The way that she
tries to derail it. Ellie, do you remember how she
tries to derail the streetcar. No, she stuffs clothes full
of straw or something, and she throws this it's it's
(25:26):
like a scarecrow. It's a body. She throws a fake
body on the tracks to try to get the streetcar
man to think that he's about to kill somebody. Yeah,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Scott, I had forgotten that detail. That is I don't
even know if this was adapted from a book or
a I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I looked it up and it's adapted from like a
series of short stories, which makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That makes a ton of sense. It is for different
vignettes according to the season. That does make much more sense.
There is no cohesive plot really, except for it's a
Christmas movie. That she is Two D is a fantastic character.
I don't know what Margaret O'Brien. I don't know much
about her career as she got older. I'm ashamed to
(26:10):
say I don't know very much about Margaret.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I don't know much about her. But I have two
other fun facts that I want to share from this
movie about two D. Okay, she sings a song in
the movie. There's a lot of songs. This is her
only one, right. The only reason, the only fig leaf
that you have that this is a Christmas movie is
(26:32):
that what is the Christmas song?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Have yourself a mary Little Christmas?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I have yourself a marry little Christmas. That song was
written for this movie, so in that sense, it's a
Christmas movie. But the point is they all do a
lot of singing two D sings. It's a musical song.
It's a musical two D sings exactly one song. Her
song is I was drunk again last night. Mother. She's six,
(26:56):
she's six years old. Well, she's an old six and
obviously she's got very old soul. The character talking about
being drunk again, it was so funny. And then the
last thing is that there's a whole Halloween sequence, which
is kind of terrifying because they this is like pre
trick or treat. This was just trick. This is where
the kids would get in costumes and they just like
(27:17):
they're like a mob. And I'm not joking. There's like
a big bonfire in the middle of the street and
they just throw furniture into the fire and they're like, yeah,
it's insane. But do you know what her costume is?
H No, it is Tudy's costume is And they say
this out loud, drunken ghost.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Oh my gosh, I do listen. Toty is the youngest
of I think five children her. She has an older brother,
two old and three older sisters, and they are old.
One of them I think is like twenty, right, he
goes to Princeton or something. The other two women are
nineteen and seventeen, so I mean she's been around alcohol
(28:02):
and presumably, I don't know, maybe ghosts. So like there's
a reason she's so grown up, I guess. But her
performance is fantastic. I have to tell you one of
my favorite lines from that movie, which is when the
dad comes home from work and he comes into the
dining room and he tells the cook I can't remember
(28:22):
her name, but Susan, I love that cabbage. I can
smell it when I get off the trolley. And the
cook responds, cabbage has a cabbage smell. Cabbage has a
cabbage smell. Yes it does. She's just over it. She's like,
I don't need to make small talk with you. Great,
you can smell the cabbage. It's my job to make
(28:43):
it for you.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
The dad is pretty hilarious too, and I love that that.
Like that the whole movie, The whole story is just
kind of setting him up as a as a clueless adult.
Like nobody in the nobody in the family really pays.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Much attention to well, no he has a thankless a
role in the family and he's just there for to
provide money. And also he's yeah, nobody listens to him.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Nobody listens to him. And but this is a payoff
at the very end of the movie. But but but
her older Judy Garland's older sister also is trying to
get married, and there's this one guy that seems too
sort of stumble mouthed to actually ask her. And then
in the very end of the movie, he barges in
and he goes and you and I are gonna get married.
And that's the last time I'm gonna hear of it, right,
(29:30):
which is, Oh wow, this guy's kind of finally grown
a spine and he's made the older sister's dreams come true.
It's a it's a sweet little moment. But the funniest
part is the dad goes, who's that and there and
then the reaction of the entire family is like, we'll
tell you later.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Oh yeah, no, it's it's and you know Scott. Of course,
that movie was directed by Vincent Minnelli, who was at
some point Judy Garland's husband, so I don't know if
that happened. I'm looking it up. I don't know if
that happened when they were filming the movie, or if
that's where they met and fell in love. I'm sure
this is a fairly well known fact. But they met
(30:09):
on the set of Strike Up the Band. Oh, and
then they got married in June nineteen forty five, So
they got married after meebe in Saint Louis. But they
were now listen, so they Oh.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
They're making a movie about falling in love. Wow. Probably
in actual effect, they themselves were falling in love. I
don't know that I necessarily see that on the screen.
I can tell you I enjoyed the directing of the film,
and her performance is sublime. Yes, yeah, Well, what do
you like so much about this movie, Ellie, I've got
my Well, Judy.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Garland is just fantastic and endlessly watchable. I mean, I
love her performance, of course I do. Are you thinking, oh,
did she pick it because she's from Saint Louis. In fact, no,
it also I watched it a lot growing up. It
was like the one of the few movies I watched
that Ferris Bueller's Day Off that was about it. So
I watched this He's growing up. So it's also something
(31:00):
that reminds me of childhood. But I just think that
it's it's a classic. I like the songs. I think
it's you know, beautifully directed. I love the characters. Of course,
it's dated. It's from nineteen forty four, about characters in
nineteen oh three. You know, it's no die Hard.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
It's definitely no die Hard.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Meet Me in Saint Louis is no die Hard. I
mean they are different movies. But I you know, I
also think it's a very funny movie for the reasons.
You pointed out the dynamics between the dad and the
rest of the family, the totally morbid six year old
twoty like she's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
I'm interested, Ellie, and this is not There's no criticism
implied in any of this, but I am curious. Sounds
like you could watch this movie, which I think fair
to say that the pacing by modern standards is a
little easy going, right this is It's not like an
edge of your seat kind of film. And that's fine.
(32:05):
Like I said, I enjoyed it very much, But when
you at the beginning are like, I'm watching die Hard
and I'm trying to like stay awake, Yet you can't
you just can't get enough of. There's a running joke
at the beginning where they're just like, is the soup
too spicy? Is it too sweet? Yeah, it's salty, sour
(32:27):
like yeah, and it's fine. It's not bad, but it's
not gripping.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
No, there's no way being held hostage in a Los
Angeles skyscraper. No, but I'll tell you this. Maybe you're saying, oh,
how can Ellie sustain an interest in this? What we
said before? Every you know, thirty minutes is a new
movie because of the seasons. So it's like, it does
I'm not following the same terrorists taking over a Los
(32:55):
Angeles skyscraper the whole time I'm watching. Oh it's Halloween,
Oh it's Christmas. Oh it's the World's Fair. Oh it's
hot in this summertime.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah. No, it's got that episodic nature. It's like it's
like watching four episodes of Cheers, like right in a row.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Also, let's not forget that steamy scene where she's turning
off all the lights and John Truett is like helping
her turn off the lights in her house.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It she says, pretty steamy.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's so steamy. She's like, are they wait, what does
she say? She has to turn off all the lights
in her house before she goes to bed, and you
know it's nineteen oh three, so it's I mean, are
they candles?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I think they're gas. They seemed to be natural gas chandeliers.
So she had to go through one by one and
turn down each of the valves on like each chandelier
has I don't know, eight ten something multiple candles and
they had to turn the valves of each one and
it's very intimate and it's getting darker and darker, and
(33:57):
it worked for me for sure, where I was like,
these two gott it's going on.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
But then, but can we also talk about how John
Truett is absolutely the most boring man you've ever met
in your life. He's literally like, I left my suit
the tailor's during basketball practice.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
I love, I absolutely love that you remember this movie
so well. Yes, that's the crisis, The climactic crisis of
the entire film is that it is the Christmas dance.
They are going to leave Saint Louis forever the day
like literally the next day, like the day after Christmas
or whatever, And John Truett shows up and he's like, oh, shucks,
(34:38):
I can't go to the dance because I don't have
a tuxedo because he was at basketball practice too long
and he couldn't go to the tailor or something. And
she's like, oh, I guess I won't go either. Then
guess what spoiler? He does show up at the dance
with a tuxedo. Yeah, at the last minute. As far
as I can tell, I know explanation for how he
(34:58):
got the tuxedo.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
They never explain that. And guess who saves the day
in the meantime and tell John Trout shows up with
a mysterious tuxedo.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Well, I don't need a guess since I just saw
the movie, But why don't you tell us Grandpa Grandma?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, we haven't mentioned him yet. Grandpa. Of course, there's
a grandpa character who's just like sweet and totally like
made fun of and is I don't know if it's
the dad's dad or the mom's dad, but I think
he lives with them.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Right, he lives with them. He also has one of
the funny laughlines that I forget exactly why. But they're
worried that they're going to be in dangerer or the
dad is gonna leave or something, and the Grandpa is like,
I'll keep him safe. I've got twelve guns in my
bedroom dated dated, twelve guns in the Grandpa. I mean,
(35:46):
I'm imagining because I think, like I said, it's based
on these vignettes that I assume are so at least
semi autobiographical from whoever wrote them. And it's like, oh,
nineteen oh four, it's probably Grandpa is a Civil War veteran.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
He's got right do the man there.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, he's got a bunch of guns in his in
his upstairs bedroom. So but yeah, Grandpa saves the day.
He takes he takes Judy Garland to the dance.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Scott our holiday movies, Die Hard and Meet Me in
Saint Louis. So they want the you know, it's not
nobody watched the Santa Claus for this experiment. Nobody watched,
you know, the Grinch. But we did watch holiday movies
in our own way, and I think we can both
say we're glad we watched them.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I mean I can say that. I don't think you
can truth say that.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Any experience I have that brings me closer to what
humans experience makes me happy. So many people have seen
Die Hard and the next time it comes up at
the bar. You know, I go to the bar most nights.
The next time it comes up, I'll be like and
then John McLean, and I'll be able to just know
what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, you'll just be able to bust out the you
know what, Alan Rickman is great.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah. The fact that I know he was in that
movie now I feel I feel more confident. So I
am happy that I saw it. And I also, you know,
I do like movies set in cities. I'm not kidding.
I love it when the city is a character. This
(37:33):
is so stupid what I'm saying, but I happy.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
That's certainly true. And meet me in Saint Louis, the.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
City in Point Scott. I hope that you have a
happy holiday season. To all of our listeners out there,
we hope you have a healthy and safe holiday season
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
And as a as a special gift to yourself, maybe
before New Year's Eve, if you've got extra time, you
can sample either or both of these movies and let
us know what you think in Apple with a five
star review. Bye bye, thanks for listening to Born to Love.
(38:16):
We'll be back next week with brand new things that
we Love.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
We want to hear from you. Leave us a review
in Apple Podcasts, and tell us what you love. We
might even ask one of our guests in an upcoming
love it or loaded.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Born to Love is hosted and created by Ellie Kemper
and Scott Ecker.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Our executive producer is Aaron Cofman. Our producers are Sheena
Ozaki and Zoe Danklab.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Born to Love is part of Will Ferrell's Big Money
Players Network in collaboration with iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to
Hans Sonny.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Rachel Kaplan and Adrianna Cassiano
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Michael Fails, Alex Korl, and Baheed Frasier
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.