Episode 19 - feat. Anna Hossnieh

Happy Thursday! Psyche and Jess are joined by iHeart Managing Executive Producer Anna Hossnieh to discuss overcoming imposter syndrome, uplifting others into your industry, and quite literally being the change you want to see around you. There's also a little tangent about cheese that made me hungry - you've been warned! Enjoy!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Let's see we already covered whether what else is there
at a chit chat about nothing, Whether it's a pretty
big thing for Northern Ireland right now. I actually look,
I know if you're just listening to this, you're not
going to actually see but on the video if you're
watching on our YouTube channel, which he totally should be
by the way, Um, I have greenery behind me for once,
because everyone just assumes that I live in a cave

(00:25):
because I always had my curtains closed. I'm glad you
finded that, because I was like, like, something felt different,
but I wasn't sure. But that's a really good point.
I like you, I always have the curtains closed, but
I'm surrounded by trees. There was Actually this is such
a random thing to say, but it's just sparked in
my head. I was doing a stream a couple of
months ago and I kept talking about the trees and

(00:45):
like the fact that we live in a kind of
foresty kind of area, and someone I was streaming with
who doesn't know me very well, it was just like,
do you actually live in a bog? Like are you
like a witch that lives in a box? And I
was like, I mean, you know, what for branding, let's
go for I think that works pretty much death. How
have you been? I feel like I don't know, maybe

(01:06):
I asked this last time, but I feel like we
haven't spoken in a little while, so I'm like, like,
what's going on in your world? What's been going on?
And I know that I know what you mean, because like,
even if we're kind of doing this every like two weeks,
since there are four of us hosts, sometimes it will
be like I'll be with Confetti or sometimes I be
with a shady lady. So yeah, I feel like I
only end up being with each host like what once

(01:27):
every month or so, So it's just weird. It's been
a while, but not a lot is new in my life.
I'm just bumming about this weather. But like, other than that,
I can't really complain. You know, nothing new, nothing exciting.
I'm just working and cuddling with my dogs. So that
sounds pretty great to me, to be honest, And that's
pretty much not dogs cats for me, but pretty much

(01:48):
they're interchangeable for cuddles. Yeah, some good cuddling, but yeah,
apart from that, I'd pretty much have been chilling, enjoying
the nice warm weather where I am because it's bearable,
whereas I know in the rest of the UK and
Europe it's kind of like a healthscape right now, but
I'm in Northern Ireland, so it's all, you know, terrible. Yeah,

(02:09):
I literally don't know how they're surviving, Like I would
die without air conditioning. Yeah, it's weird. It's it's it's
weird because I think a lot of people expect that
we have Eric on anyway. I could talk about the
weather for a really long time because I come from
a country where the weather is pretty much it's different
every twenty minutes. But hello everyone, and welcome back to
Boss Level, a podcast where we feature conversations with guests

(02:29):
who have leveled up, bringing an XP boost to the table.
We are super excited today to be joined by a
mainstay of l A comedy Anna Hostna, from booking stand
up shows and comedy productions to producing her own show,
Ethnically Ambiguous, defining the next generation of podcasters as part
of the Next Up initiative. Anna's keen eye for talent

(02:51):
has made her an irreplaceable entity in the world of entertainment.
An avid reality fan, you can find Anna on Twitch
talking below deck with co host Molly Lamber on their
show deckheads or maybe behind the wheel of an F
one car or toppling over as an oversized jelly bean
and fall guys just for fun, Anna, Hi, thank you
so much for joining us today. How are you doing. Hi,

(03:11):
I'm good. Thank you for having me. Wow, I didn't
know you guys are referenced the F one driving I do,
which is so poor that I really really, I'm really bad.
I have one of the steering wheel you know, break
set ups, doesn't matter. I'm terrible at it. I feel
like I've know so fun fact, I don't actually have

(03:31):
a license. I've never learned to drive because where I
live has a really good public transport and we're a
very very small country. But I also kind of drive
video games at all. I've never been able to. I
don't know what it is. I feel like you're super realistic.
Video games are need to drive in Like I remember
as a kid being like, holy crap when I turned sixteen,
people are about to die and then fortunately it's nothing.

(03:55):
It's not. There's not a huge actually, because I'm planning
on learning to drive, and the fact that I can't
drive in video games is very concerning I feel like
it's way easier than in video games. It's really banana
feels usually I think that would be problematic and blue
shells blue shells would be about you, although those don't
exist in the F one game, I'm sure, so it

(04:16):
seems a bit more realistic. So well, I hope, So,
I hope, so Anna. I would love to get into
character select and learn a little bit more about you,
if that's okay, Would you mind giving us a little
introduction and tell us a little bit about what you do? Ah? Yeah,
I am a managing executive producer here at the I

(04:37):
Heart Radio podcast network. And yeah, like you mentioned, I
host my own show with my co host Shren Lonnie
Units called Ethnically Ambiguous, UM, which is all about kind
of being a person of color, Middle Easterner and you
know this lovely world um where everything is going just right,

(04:58):
everything is going so great right now. Um. But uh yeah,
that's basically I mean. I'll also just have a background
in live comedy producing, which is kind of how I
got into podcasting because I met a bunch of comedians
and they all wanted to do podcast So it's just
slowly kind of you know, went from there. That's so

(05:23):
cool that you like were so you would basically have
to go like find people who are funny and then
be like, hey, this person should be the next stand
up or whatever. Um well I did. What I would
do is basically like get a room and put stand
up shows on and then yeah, I would definitely definitely
went to like a ton of shows and like saw
who was funny, and then like you know, stock them

(05:44):
and then like DM them or went up to them
in person. And that was kind of my m O
for a very long time, was like creeping around l
A comedy clubs and rooms to find who I just
thought was, you know, funny as simple as that's very interesting.
Do you have any crazy stories from that time, because

(06:05):
I mean I know you were obviously weren't like stalking
these people, but were there any like funny times where
you know, a comedian would be like you've been at
all of my shows? Like who are you? Kind of thing? Um,
I don't know. I mean kind of like I would
do a lot of stuff where I would just like
I would see this person over and over and over again,

(06:26):
and then I would just like DM, I would just
cold email or damn them. I I am like, I
have no problem in my life cold calling, emailing or
just dm NG or texting anyone. It's how I get
like all my work done. I'll just be like, Hi,
you don't know me, but that's not the point. And
then you know, really get into and I've had people
just be like how long have you known about me?

(06:47):
And I'm like a year. I've been watching you for
a year, just slowly like kind of taking you in
and and then finding the perfect time to be like, Hi,
I would love to have you do my show and
or podcast. That's really cool. I so weird question, and
I suppose we're probably deep dive on this later, but um,

(07:10):
people who are funny are not necessarily going to be
good at hosting a podcast, right, Like there's it's a
different it can be a different skill set. Why do
you kind of like assess whether someone's going to be
right for that sort of thing, like between stand up
versus hosting like a show. Um, that's a good question,
you know. I I like to give almost like everyone

(07:34):
a chance because you never know, because you know, just
like based off their stand up, you don't know, um,
like if they will be like a good talker, it's
a lot of kind of like trial and error to
find out, um, if someone can handle it. Also like
just talking to them sometimes you're like, Okay, you're like charismatic,

(07:54):
you're interesting, you can like you know. Also another thing
is like they're stand up. Isn't like uh the classic
like joke set up, whether it's like you know, set
up punchline, set up punchline, set up punchline, if they're
like a talker. And and there is like a clear
if you've seen enough stand up like I have, which

(08:15):
is I have like a six cents for like how
people like now, like just how they talk like I have,
I can read into nations like I know what they're
gonna say, how they're body like. I've just watched so
much stand up in my life that I'm a bit
of a I'm I'm unwell from it, but I I
can just sense like what their body movements will be like,

(08:37):
or how they will sound, what they will emphasize. Um.
And I get I see a lot of it when
people are like kind of storytellers versus like the standard
set up punchline, and I think the storytellers um. And
this is not always I don't want to generalize it,
but a lot of the time tend to be better

(09:00):
podcasters because I think they're more comfortable just talking versus
having a formula that makes sense. That makes sense, and
I mean because the podcast is more like a conversation.
So if that's kind of what they're doing and they
know how to lead that conversation, clearly, that's I mean,
what you have to do to be a podcaster exactly. Yeah,
because I feel I feel like we're talking about comedy

(09:21):
a lot, and I always think of myself as not
a very funny person. I don't know, it's it's one
of those things where maybe maybe if I thought I
was a very funny person, that would be a bit weird.
But I feel like as a as a person who streams,
one of the things that I always hear is like,
you either have to be really really skillful at the game,
you have to be really really funny, or you have

(09:42):
to be really educational or charismatic or something like that.
And frequently I'm like, why the heck do people watch
me stream? I don't understand. I don't know what it
is I bring to the table. So weird. I feel
like there's this common like sort of attitude almost that
you have to be to be any kind of entertainer,
which is like you have to even your own abilities
enough to go do the thing, but you don't necessarily

(10:05):
want to be like super arrogant, like I'm sure, like,
I'm sure there are comedians out there who think that
they're like they're the funniest person ever, but I feel
like most of them are probably like M I don't know,
you know, it depends on the day kind of thing.
But you have to be like you have to have
a certain level of confidence in your ability to try
the thing at least, but like which shouldn't necessarily be
It's not necessarily an ego thing or an arrogance thing.
It's more like a like the confidence to try kind

(10:27):
of thing. Yeah, I think it's like two different kinds
of confidence, right. There's the confidence that, like, you are
the funniest person in the room, or the confidence that
you're willing to give it a try and see what sticks.
Just kind of chuck stuff at the wall and see
how it goes. And yeah, that makes sense. That's an
interesting way of looking at it. But we were speaking
about twitch and I mentioned the f one and the
fall guys thing. But I have to ask, since you
do some gaming on twitch as well, I know, what's

(10:49):
your favorite game on or off stream? I mean, my
favorite favorite game is Animal Crossing. I don't stream it.
I just it's a personal that on my own free
time without any eyes on me. It's like one of
my favorite Yeah, what happens in Animal Crossing stays an

(11:11):
animal crossing. Yeah. My island is my sacred land, you know. Yeah, yeah,
was the negative energy in it for sure. I started
a new island and Animal Crossing I think last year
where I decided that I was going to make sure
that every single villager I had was going to be
a cat. And I discovered the absolute pain of hunting

(11:33):
for like type of villager because of the way it
works at all out It's like it takes from a
pool of different like species, and then it takes from
a pool of all of the different personality types. And
I was like, oh my god, I swear to God,
if I see another bird or another like whatever, I'm
going to scream because it was. It took me so long.
And then I got like three cats in a row

(11:53):
and it was the best thing that's ever happened, And
the hype was worth it, you know what I mean.
So you can't like kick a villager out right, can't? Okay?
So I was gonna say, if you get like a
nonct what do you do. You're just like, now I
got it started. You don't have to accept them. We
could go into so much detail, but animal cross cross
plate animal crossing in a while, so I forgot so detailed.

(12:14):
So they're like a vampire. They have to be invited.
They can't just come over in and out. A vampire,
you can kick them. So whenever you kick a villager,
are you have like twenty four hours or something after
they move out to fill the plot. Otherwise it fills
automatically with a random villager. Um, So you have to
keep resetting the day back to the beginning of the day.
And then you don't have to accept any villager that

(12:36):
you encounter, but you have to spend those little tickets
to get one. So you eventually run out our tickets
and then you're like, oh, I guess I'll take whatever
comes up next. And it's a crocodile. I wanted a cat.
It's not the same. But anyway, there's such a weird
like kind of mentality around the whole time travel and
animal crossing thing and whatever, and it does take away
from the chill vibes. I think it's very chill. There's

(13:00):
a lot of sort of um like there's like there's
like this two sides of time traveling. There's the like,
do not time travel, it is not okay, and then
there's the people who are like, whatever, it's a game.
Yeh mean time traveling. Since the beginning, does any either
of you play Cozy Grove? Yes, actually started very recently.

(13:23):
There we go okay, so we'll wanna. It has some
similar mechanics as Animal Crossing does in terms of it
takes place like in real time. But the whole thing
with Cozy Grove is like it kind of encourages you
to just spend time like non gaming because there's like
a limit to the number of quests you can do,
and then you'll get to a point where you're just
run out of quests. So when you first start, it's
literally you can do like three things and then it's
like you're done playing for the game for the day.

(13:44):
You have to wait until the next day. So a
lot of people do is start like time traveling and
then a whole other you know, group of people are
like vehemently against it. They're like, no messes up your game,
and you know, taints the purity of Cozy Grove. It's
so true. It's basically like an animal crossing but with
ghosts kind of. It's like a wanted Island kind of

(14:06):
spooky but cozy game. It's really wrote down. It's really good.
I like any game like that that's just like cute
and you're like, yes, yes, yeah, you're just like minding
your own business, setting up your island, getting your fruits. Yeah.
I feel like we need that in today. Is kind
of like as you were saying, everything is totally fine
and nothing is a problem. That kind of vibe. You

(14:28):
need something that takes just I don't know where you
could just kind of potter around and pick up right
off the floor and not worry. Yeah. On the other hand, though,
I feel like some like sometimes I'll be in a
mood where I want something that's like more challenging to
like pull my focus, because once in a while I'll
get on like something that's more of a cutesy game

(14:50):
or like the Sims or something, and I'm like, I
think it's it's too good, it's too nice. There's no like,
there's no problems to like pull me away from my
own problems, Like I need that conflict as long as
it's not happen to me. I get that. That's why
I played rim World recently, and I streamed it and
allowed my chats to vote on things that happened, and
of course my chat voted on a hurricane slash tornado

(15:13):
type thing at the same time as a swarm of
angry rats, and then a second swarm of angry rats
and everybody died, and I was like, well that was
not like everyone. I thought the hurricane would have no
hurricane blew the dead bodies of my colonists away, so
I was like, okay, well I suppose at least it

(15:35):
tidied itself up. Wait, what is this game. It's called
rim World. It's like a colony management game and it
just throws random things at you, and then it has
like a Twitch integration where chat and vote on stuff
or send you things. And at first I thought it
was great. They sent me tons of cowboy hats and
all my colonists are walking in the cowboy hats on
like this is cool, And then they were like, how

(15:57):
we've decided to destroy everything you've been working on for
the last two weeks. I was like, I think I
just sat there with like, you know, that frozen look
of Oh, okay, so that's how we're doing this. I
don't know what to do. Oh it was terrible. I
enjoyed it, but it was terrible. UM So, anyway, once again,

(16:19):
another thing you can talk about, like video games, probably
all day long. We probably will bring it back up
multiple times the episode. But this podcast, being the Boss
Level podcast, I know, what does it mean to you
to be Boss level And how do you see that
kind of featuring as a as a sort of milestone
type thing in your career and journey. That's that's a

(16:41):
good question. I don't even know if I consider myself
Boss level because I've never even like, I suffers from
such extreme imposter syndrome moods that I spend my life
being like like through everything I do. Um, but I guess,
like I guess to me, being Boss I was just

(17:04):
trying to overcome that every single ding and continuing to
just you know, like continue to just keep going and
not letting that imposter syndrome completely drag me under which
there are days where I'm like, oh my god. How
like when someone sends me an email and they're like
can you do this, this, this, and this, I'm like,

(17:25):
I'm gonna die. I will die. It's too much. I
can't handle it, Oh God. Or like I got invited
to do this like panel, and I was like, I can't.
I can't talk on this. I can't speak on this,
and it's like stuff that I've done before. But I
like automatically tend to doubt myself because I'm like, I
just live in such an anxious place at all times that, um,

(17:51):
I literally just have to compartmentalize to like keep moving.
I'm just like, you know what, that's fine. Freak out
about it at four in the morning, you know, when
all your fear has come to you and you wake
up and you're like, oh no, why did I say that?
You know? Um So, I think that's what boss level,
being able to continue on regardless of like feeling like

(18:12):
you are collapsing inwards at all times. To me, that's
what it is. To boss level. Is that answer You've
ever got? Absolutely respect that because I literally have been
battling impostors syndrome my entire life. I used to be
a project manager, and I don't know like how familiar
you both are with like project management, but I feel

(18:35):
like not very like I'm going to tell you the
truth of the time, because if if you're a good supposedly,
if you're a good project manager, people won't know that
you like what impact you've had because you've made everything
run so smoothly, right, But that obviously means that there's
no evidence that you've actually done anything. So the amount
of times have just been like, I'm not doing anything,

(18:56):
and one day someone's going to figure out that I
have not done anything and that I add asolutely no
value to this team whatsoever. And I thought that leaving
the game's industry like proper would mean that I would
get over that. But then I went into content creation,
where it was all like why do people watch my stream?
Why are people hanging out with? Like I doubt myself
every day, So I completely relay, and I think being
able to push through that is super important, and I

(19:19):
think that is boss level definitely not the saddest answer.
I think that's important. I completely agree. Not not a
sad answer at all, very inspiring answer if you ask me.
But with that I think it's time for us to
take a quick little ad break, so we will be
right back. Welcome back to the boss level. We are

(19:41):
here with Anna Home, me a and an executive producer
at I Heart Radio slash I Heart Media, and we've
been chatting about a million different things so far, and
what I want to touch on next is how you
got your starts in comedy as far as like, did
you always want to work in comedy or was that
something you discover later on in life? Um, I mean

(20:03):
I've always loved comedy. I've always I just like like
to laugh. That's all I ever just wanted to do
is laugh. Um, I completely agree. So yeah, I've always
enjoyed stand up, like watching stand up. I didn't know
I would do what I ended up doing. Like I
never thought like, oh, I'll just go to l A
and start producing live comedy. Like I majored in just
kind of like digital media in college and like experimental art,

(20:27):
a lot of weird experimental art um and the good thing.
I took a lot of like audio editing and just
editing in general courses in college. So like I always
thought I would like go to l A and become
like an editor or something like a video editor or
like some sort of like something that had to work
in film, doing some sort of like post production. Um.

(20:49):
I I've always really enjoyed building stories, so I would
also like write a lot. I thought I would be
a writer and editor or something. I don't know. I
figured I would work somewhere in the history. And then I,
you know, I moved l A right after graduating and
worked um in like a reality TV development office, which
was like the darkest place on earth. It was, so

(21:12):
it made me almost want to move back home, Like
I was like, oh God, everyone is soul sucking and um.
But then I left that, and during this time where
I was like am I going to move back home,
Actually that's not true. I left that and I went
to Iran for three months ish, which was like a
really crazy time because I was just like hanging out

(21:34):
with my um my uncle who is like just or
you know, was like just this just old Persian man
who just smoked chain, smoked cigarettes and like watch Turkish
soap operas, um, And so I just sat next to
him for like three months is just zoning out because
the internet is not great in Iran, so there's really

(21:55):
I was truly like decompressing after working in like the
very terrifying um A reality TV office with the scariest
executive producer I've ever met, and uh, I came back
to l A after that being like, do I even
really want to like work in the industry? Like this
is something I could ever really handle emotionally and mentally.

(22:19):
And then I met this woman who was like, Hey,
do you want to help me produce my live show?
And I was like, oh, comedy, Yes, then I can
watch them comedy and I'll just laugh and I'll feel
better like what could go wrong? You know, basically like
I enjoyed. I enjoy laughing. And so I started helping
this woman, Sharon Eisman, produced her variety comedy show. And
then yeah, just from there, this was like I started

(22:45):
meeting a bunch of comedians and then I met David
Huntsberger who he invited me to be an intern on
the ear Wolf show Professor blast Off with him takingnatar
own Kyle Done Again and that kind of like my
first foray into podcasting. And then yeah, I just went

(23:05):
from there. And have you done stand up yourself? Ever? No? No,
I never really had. I don't really I've always been
of like a don't look at me type of person,
which is why I think I thrived behind the scenes. Yeah,
I feel like big Like, I think it's not that
I think you can't do both, because I think it's

(23:27):
probably a skills that people do have. But I think
there's always like people will have a passion for one
over the other and will feel more comfortable in that
kind of setting. And I think sometimes you just know,
like I'm not going to be so obviously. Again, I
come from like a games industry background where I worked like, actually,
I relate very much to your story, but not in

(23:49):
a way that I think people necessarily want to hear,
which is that some of the jobs I had in
the games industry were absolutely soul sucking, and I frequently,
like I worked in an environment where are um, I
was very very passionate, but frequently you were kind of
shut down and like your ideas were kind of stomped
on and then you couldn't get them to go anywhere
and it was really frustrating. Um And I never thought

(24:12):
that I was going to be a person who would
be comfortable being in front of the camera like ever,
and then I got thrown up on stage at Games
Calm one year because they needed somebody to host a thing,
and weirdly, it was easier for me because the vast
majority of the audience we had, like a really really
big audience of that booth, but they were all German kids,
so some of them could speak English, but some of

(24:33):
them couldn't actually speak English, and I could only speak
very conversational German. So I was posting in English but
had a person standing next to me he was translating
into German, and that weirdly took away some of the
nerves because it was like, if I say anything stupid,
the person next to me is going to correct it
when they translate it, and it will be fine. And
then I don't know, I just kind of got like
it's almost like you got the taste for it, and

(24:55):
I was like, okay, actually kind of enjoy this. So
it's like an easy slip into post ing and kind
of doing stuff in front of a camera. It was weird, though,
one of this kind of like didn't really make any
sense transitions into something. Um, do you have like a
kind of moment in your career where you feel like
you hit it and you you realize no, this is
actually what I want to do. Like, what was the

(25:16):
defining moment because you said that you kind of always
thought that you would work in kind of like writing
or editing or something, but then you kind of got
into comedy and producing. Was there a particular moment where
like a light bulb kind of went off and you
were like, Yeah, this is it, this is what I
want to do. Gosh, what was that? I feel like
there definitely was, probably So I went to crack dot

(25:40):
com for a while and was working on producing the
Cracked podcast, and the host of the Cracked podcast, Jack O'Brien,
we like really hit it off, and when he decided
to leave to go to How Stuff Works, which is
what we used to be before we were required by
my heart, he um kind of was like, oh, you know,

(26:03):
like I would love for you to come with me.
We can go start this like l a division together.
And I kind of have this vision where it's just
like no more white guys, no more just like white
guys telling their story, you know. And that was like
a big moment for me because I was like, I
never knew I wanted to work like I enjoyed producing
podcasts on the side, to make cash. But I was

(26:23):
freelancing always. I was always working multiple arenas, like live producing,
doing some writing. Uh. You know, I had my own
I was doing my own podcast, Ethnically Ambiguous at the
time at a different network, And before that, we'd had
a web series on this YouTube channel by the same
name Ethnically Ambiguous, that we spun off to the podcast.

(26:44):
I was like, I had my hand in all these
different places and I was just trying to like find
the thing that I enjoyed the most. And so when
Jack told me that, I was kind of like, oh, like,
it's like it felt like he was giving me an
opportunity to really do something, uh, which I mean at
the time, I didn't know I would start something like

(27:04):
Step Up or anything step Up? What is wrong with me?
Next Up? Sorry? Like like dance flicks, Um that was you.
I don't know I would write and direct the movie
Step Up and then and then pivot off that and
go into podcasting. No, but I I didn't think I

(27:25):
would start something like next Up. But I was like, oh, well,
this is an opportunity for me who's been like creeping
at every comedy show for the last few years to
bring all these people that I really enjoy in um,
who are not just like, you know, straight white males.
So uh yeah, I think that was that was kind

(27:46):
of Uh that's the best moment I can think of it.
Like that I was like, Okay, like I can actually
do this. I can build a career here and like
enjoy myself and be happy with my work. That's really powerful. Um.
Can I ask you to about the next up initiative?
I was reading about it earlier actually, And what was
it that really? Like, I mean, you've talked about not

(28:06):
like wanting to see people that weren't just straight white men. Um,
was there something in particular that like drove your desire
to take on this mission to kind of bring in
new people and uplift voices that aren't necessarily heard all
the time. Yeah. So this is also gonna be kind
of a sad answer. But I grew up very much alone.

(28:27):
Like I was always a loner and I like never
fit in, Like I just felt like I had friends,
but like I just never really felt like anyone understood me.
And it's because I grew up as like the only
Persian kid like in my neighborhood and then kind of
like in my school for a long time in the
Bay Area, which is strange because there aren't Persian people

(28:48):
in the Bay Area. But they're just like, weren't at
my school or in my grade, you know, other than
like my siblings, but like uh, and they didn't. And
I was the youngest. Of course, naturally, older siblings do
not care for younger siblings in that way. I was
considered lame. Okay, only now does my brother offer to
play video game with me. Took years, years and me
being like I'll try Halo and him being like, you

(29:10):
don't have the hand eye coordination that we need on
the team, and I'm like, oh, try first before you
determine that. Well, he wasn't wrong. It took a long
time for me to like get good hand eye coordination
the point he wasn't allowing me to even practice. Okay,
I had to go. I literally had to go buy
like Paper Mario for him to be like, I remember

(29:32):
gonna be like, I will learn to play Paper Mario
and then I will become good, and then you will
let me play um and then eventually on the Xbox Fable.
I liked really like, you know, long sort of like
adventure games. I thought that helped me be better with
my hand eye coordination, as if I just like played
by myself and like tried to you know, play a
full uh game where I'm just on an adventure by myself.

(29:54):
But I digress. So I was always kind of a loaner.
I never really fit in and I just also never
really saw anyone in media that was like me. And
I always like to kind of perform and have fun
and like be funny around my parents. And my parents
are both really two very very very strict Persian parents,
but also hilarious, like something. My mom has the driest

(30:16):
humor in the world, Like to this day, she'll say
one word and I'm just like dying because she's just
so she like she has perfect comedic timing even though
she's like an electrical engineer, nails it. And then my
dad is just like the goofy ist, goofball. When he's
not being like go do your homework, you know, he's

(30:36):
like really really funny and so like we've always had
like a good laugh at home. Um and so but
you know, to me, I was like, well, I guess
I have to go be a lawyer. Like there was
no like I didn't see myself anywhere, And I think
the most I saw myself was Christian I'm on poor uh,
the CNN reporter journalist, and she was only like half person,

(31:00):
and so I was like, okay, like she kind of
looks like me. I see it. I could do something
like that. Maybe I can become a journalist or something.
But like that was it, And so I spent my
whole like podcasting career. And like why I started ethnically
ambiguous was like I wanted to create a show where
like I could just be the person I was always

(31:22):
looking for growing up of like you're not alone. I
went through this my whole life too, Like you're not
going to feel like you fit in. Your parents are
going to send you to school with food that smells
for lunch. Everyone's gonna be like, what the funk is
wrong with you? Why are you so weird? No one
knows where you're on? Is you know? Like so that
was kind of the genesis of everything I wanted to do,

(31:43):
was like bring more people like me, people who have
stories that are different from different cultures, different worlds, in
uh to any in any arena of this industry. I
just wanted to bring more people of color and marginalized, uh,
people from different communities in and and um yeah, literally
just be the representation I never saw or never had

(32:07):
to like feel included or just like wanted. As sad
as that is, like I just never really felt wanted.
Like I've never felt like anyone was like dying to
have me around, which is very sad, but it is
what it is. Uh. And so I yeah, so I
made ethnically ambiguous, and then I my whole time at

(32:29):
how stuff works. Then my heart, I was always being
like more of people like me, more of people like me, please,
more of people like me, to a point where I
think I was starting to annoy a lot of people.
I think peop would be like, we get it, you bitch,
you know, like we get it. You want to see
more people like you. And I'd be like, yeah, I
see where I'm becoming annoying, but I can't stop. And

(32:52):
then you know, a global pandemic had to happen, and
we had a you know, a true reckoning with race
in this country because George Floyd had to be murdered
for someone to be like, oh my god, this is
an issue, and it's like we've been screaming for years
for someone to pay attention that America as a white
supremacist hell whole. And then I was like, and I

(33:14):
have this great program I created on my free time
in twenty nineteen, which at the time it wasn't called
Next Up. I think I just called it Diversity Initiative,
because you know, I was really just like throwing stuff
up the wall to see like what I could like
create in this program. And then I literally was just like,
here's an email with this whole pitch that I created,
would love free like my heart to do this. And

(33:36):
then they were like, oh, yeah, this is great. It's
like excellt's do it. This could this says I'll do this,
you don't have to worry about it, I will do it.
And then yeah, we did it. It was pretty cool. See,
Like that's not a sad answer at all, because the
ending to the story is, you know, we did it.
We we achieved the thing we set out to do.

(33:58):
So like, that's not a sad answer in your answer,
or it was also not sad. It would only be
sad if you were like and then I learned that
I was right to feel that way and I shouldn't
even fucking try. That would be the sad answer. That's
when the imposter syndrome comes in. You don't let the
imposter syndrome win. You beat off the impostor syndrome where

(34:18):
you didn't despite the imposter syndrome. And I think that's
very inspiring Personally. I agree as somebody who's experiences all
the time. As I said, like literally every single day
of my life, I feel like I'm battling the voice
inside my brain. It's like, no, don't, don't do it.
Don't do it. It's not worth it, it's not going
to happen. Nobody wants to hear that, nobody wants to
see that, and it's not true. Even though, like you know,

(34:41):
it's so funny, you can always tell another person, hey,
that's not true. That's just the inside voice and it's
lying to you. And then when it comes to yourself,
it's like so convincing. Yeah it is. It really is
a direct line. It knows your greatest weaknesses and it
knows what strings to pull to you know, push exactly. Well,

(35:06):
do you have any advice for anyone who wants to
do what you do or who had for anyone who
maybe is also um feels alone growing up and wants
to no longer feel that way. Um, the good thing
now is that there is so much more representation. I mean, look,

(35:29):
we're nowhere near like what it should be, like pure
equality and living in like an egalitarian so you know, like, look,
we've got a long way to go. But now with
podcasting and with like media, there is more where you
can see yourself. But um, it's definitely like you're really

(35:50):
we're really working towards something where like I always say, like,
if you want to create something like and you feel
like people aren't giving you the time a day, just
like make it yourself, Like I know, like podcasting can
be like you feel like, oh, well, it has to
be perfect. Nothing has to be perfect. I mean like,
look at this world. We got dudes literally in positions

(36:13):
in the world who you're like, I don't think he
can read, but he's in charge of a state and
you're like, oh god, like what is happening. So I
genuinely think when people think they're not good enough, and
this is kind of like how I survive is to think, uh,
you're probably better than you think, and no one it's
just the problem is like people aren't giving in the
time of day, which is what we are. We're kind

(36:34):
of we're very selfish, you know, very up our own
ass society. It's it's how we, you know, slowly have
destroyed the planet. You know, like that's just our vibe.
We're like, okay, well I'm glad. I'm so sorry, Like
you're going through that, but like I'm going through something
as well too. That's just the energy. That's what we
have as a you know world going on so and

(36:58):
all that. That's why you kind of have to find
your own path, which is like you have to kind
of put forth you're sort of like what you want. Um,
and I know I feel like I'm saying like manifest it. No,
I'm saying like, yes, manifest you know, like have good energy,
like think well of yourself. But like if you want

(37:20):
to do a podcast, you know, get get like yeah,
get like corded headphones like what I have. They sound
better than AirPods, right and then um, which that's I'm
not talking on court. I'm I'm actually talking to like
a nice mike, but like these sound good if plugged
into your computer, if you have a MacBook garage band,

(37:42):
you can easily record yourself in garage band or you
can record yourself on quick Time, or if you have
a PC, you can record yourself on like Audacity, which
is a free program. Like there's all these different paths.
You just like literally just google like best audio free
program and find something and download it and you can
start recording into that and like you don't necessarily have

(38:04):
to put it out, but like start feeling yourself in
a way where you are worth it, so like you
can start, like I have a podcast. I had a
podcast very very early days when I was in l A.
No one will ever hear it because I've removed it,
but it's a podcast I just did with my roommate

(38:25):
um where we were just like playing characters the whole time,
and I put it out and then my friends were
just listening to it and it was like the most
fun I've ever had doing a podcast. And I know
I have like an actual podcast now and I heard
but like you know what I mean, Like, but there
was no expectation, there was nothing. I was just creating something.
And then one of the things that had that woman

(38:47):
who reached out to me about helping with her live
shows that podcast. She's like, you're so funny on this.
You should like work in comedy and like it was
as simple as that, and I was like, I don't
know what I'm doing. This is just like me fucking
around literally, and she's like, yeah, but like you may
as well do something with it. And then I didn't
necessarily like I wasn't like, oh, this podcast, I have

(39:08):
to work really hard on this podcast. It was just
like a stepping stone and then you know, I was
able to create another podcast on a more professional level.
But it's like just trying and putting yourself out there
and not worrying about like it having to be perfect
is like very key, I think and getting anywhere, you
just have to try and put your own creativity out

(39:29):
there or what in whatever world Like, um, of course
I work in this industry, so I can I can't
really speak on like business or marketing, but yeah, that
would be my advice. That's great, We've reached another save
point and we're going to take a super short break
and then we're going to come back and dig even

(39:50):
deeper into Anna's brain. That sounded really creepy, but we're
gonna do with it anyway. We're gonna stalk her thoughts,
send it it Welcome back, to boss level. Everyone. We
are speaking to the wonderful Anna host See and we

(40:12):
have just received some really really great gems of advice
from her about getting started with podcasting. And do you
know what, since we're talking about like advice and stuff
like that, it's a little maybe jumping ahead a little bit,
but I kind of want to ask as well, are
there any resources that you would recommend to someone who
is getting started on their own journey? Not necessarily with
like um software because you've kind of already given us

(40:34):
like Audacity for example, which is something I use all
the time, But are there any kind of like learning
resources or things that might be useful for people if
they were wanting to get into hosting their own show
or even just producing. Um, well, I learned everything I
do on YouTube, So like, if I have like a

(40:55):
tech issue of any kind, I go like how to
do this in YouTube? Because I think a lot of
people like overlook it when it's like, no matter what
you're trying to do, someone has taught you how to
do it on YouTube. Um. I will say, like in
college when we were like working on after effects, I
remember this so clearly. We'd all been like the video

(41:17):
editing lab and it would be like a queue waiting
to get the after effects manual, like the book, the
physical book. That's how long ago I was in college.
So sorry, I'm actually only twenty one years old, that's right,
But like that was like such a crazy time to

(41:39):
you have to be like we were like waiting, like
oh God is hey. I just gotta wait, just gotta wait,
and then I can figure out how to do this,
like one like you know, effect or or whatever whatever
you're trying to figure out what to do and now
text me two seconds. I go on YouTube and I
just search this. And here's the other thing. As much
as I despise is ever looking at this interface read it.

(42:03):
There is so much information on Reddit. I really try
and go on very lightly because I have my own
issues with Reddit, but like you can search anything in
Google and there's a reddit subreddit, you know, like you
can find how to do stuff, and now there's so
much like there's so many resources because people have like
newsletters on sub stack on like how to podcast or

(42:24):
how to do this or how do you know? Like
there's so much resources that you literally just have to
type in how to do this and then look at
what your Google options are Reddit. I mean, as long
as you're you have to really, you know, just look
at what's out there, open up a bunch of tabs
and see what works for you, like or what information
you need, or go on YouTube and search it or

(42:47):
you know, like there's I generally even if you just
searched sub stack as simple as that, which is if
you guys don't know what substack is. It's like a
kind of like blogging sub description site up, but not
everyone needs a subscription to look at what they're writing,
you know, like, um, my friend Courtney Kosak has a

(43:09):
uh podcast blog called podcast Besties and she puts out
a newsletter every I think week and like that has
a bunch of information in it and then like I
haven't um Lauren Pacel of Tink Media has a newsletter
called literally podcast a newsletter and you can go and
she interviews all these people, tells you all the good
podcasts to listen to, Like there's so many resources out

(43:32):
there now, like people love to put stuff out there, Uh,
how would even are you? Like I sometimes if I
want to learn how to do something, I'll go to TikTok,
Like if I literally want to be like how do
I do this sort of nail or or like even
like how do I put on this eyeshadow? I'll just
go to TikTok and someone is dying to teach you. Yeah,

(43:53):
there's so much you can learn on the internet. I
heard someone recently say, and I don't think I fully
believe this, but I heard someone recently say that at
the internet is going to make a college education obsolete
because you can just like learn it for free. And
obviously there are certain aspects of you know, knowledge that
you can't get from the internet, Like what do you

(44:13):
too think of that? I am a college drop light?
So like that I was. I was a computer science major,
and by the time, like when I got to my
programming classes, everybody already knew how to code and they
were just there for the degree, the piece of paper.
And I was like what because I was like the
only one who had no idea what the hell I

(44:34):
was doing. And I was like constantly asking my classmates
for help because I was like, I thought we were
here to learn this and y'all already know it. So
my mind was kind of blown then, But which kind
of makes sense because they were all like, you know,
they kind of did it as a hobby. They already
like they taught it to themselves in high school, which
was just wild. But I mean that's the thing you
can do these days. Yeah, I will say I do

(44:55):
think like having the practical experience, like you can watch
thing on you too, but you won't truly learn how
to do until you try it yourself. So like you
have to like you know, really troubleshoot to figure it out.
And I think you can go and learn all these situations,
but like like I said before, like you just have
to do it yourself to see. You have to open

(45:16):
that editing program, or you have to you know, try
and record on a mic. You just have to try
it because that's yeah, you have to like feel it out.
And that's when you really start to learn, is because
you're like, oh, I'm like hands on, because you don't
learn the unique challenges that you're going to encoue during
the problems that you're going to face until you've actually
tried yourself. And I think like that's something that comes

(45:38):
up a lot with people who talk about like streaming
in general and like oh, I oh it's so easy
because they've not actually tried yet and then when they
actually get into it, they're like, oh, actually, there's a
lot more to this than I thought there was. Like
it's not just about sitting down. I mean, it can
be just about sitting down in front of the computer
and playing games if you want, but like it's there's
a lot of kind of I guess to some degree,

(46:00):
like light tech knowledge that's needed, and like production knowledge
that's needed, and all that good stuff. And you don't
encourage with that till you give it a try, until
you turn on the camera, you turn on the microphone,
and you give it a shot, and then you find
out that, oh right, I actually need to learn how
to do insert thing here and figure it out and
then kind of go from there. I guess, like you
don't know what, you don't know exactly, go live until

(46:22):
you try the thing and then realize where the gaps
and your knowledge are. But then it gives you a
good jumping off point to like go find the knowledge
on on radar, on sub stack or something and kind
of fill in those gaps. Yeah, definitely. So Yeah, like
I said, I was a college drop boy. I I
had a really weird experience where I decided that I
because I never knew I was going to get into
the games industry. I decided I was going to be

(46:43):
a journalist and I wanted to be a games journalist.
So it's still kind of games industry anyway. But um,
I went to college here in Belfast and uh bell
fat Northern Ireland, being a little bit kind of behind
when it comes to things like the games industry. We
have a really flourishing um like indie game dev scene now,
but back then it wasn't as big a thing. So like,

(47:05):
I was going for journalism and it was very traditional
journalism and it was all political, and um, I discovered
like a couple of months into my course that it
was actually supposed to be a uh post graduate course
and I didn't have a degree. I was like all
these things that they keep talking about. They're like, oh, yeah,
and you'll have learned this when you did your degree,
and I'm like, what did me? And I like, I

(47:27):
had to do a test to get in, and I
passed the test and then they let me in and
I was like, but why didn't they check them I
actually had the requirements because I didn't, and I ended
up dropping out because I was like this is too hard. Also,
It didn't help that it was one of those things
where they like they set me up for failure because
I had to travel to the to the course because
it was in the middle Belfast and I lived quite
far away, and they'd space the classes out so far

(47:50):
apart that I have to be there super early in
the morning for one class and then there's this massive
gap and then I'd have to be there super late
in the afternoon. But it was like not quite long
enough to go home and come back, so I kind
of just had to sit there. So then I started
skipping the last class of the day, and then I
was suddenly skipping the entire day. And then I was like,
you know what, this is just not working. I'm like, completely,

(48:11):
it's a waste of time. I should not do this.
So like the fact that there are some things that
I can actually sit on and genuinely, I I use
YouTube a ton to learn how to do stuff because
I'm like trying to learn how to do video editing,
and it's a whole thing that I have never opened
myself up to before. And there's always somebody on the Internet,
thank God, who actually just says, you know what I

(48:33):
really want to tell people how to do this thing,
and I'm going to show them, and some of them
are better at it than others, but like it's there,
someone's dying to tell you. And TikTok's a great resource,
like you mentioned, because I have the attention span of
a not sometimes and those videos are really short. Really
helps and they're usually entertaining. Also, it's not just like

(48:54):
dry boring and knowledge. It's presented in like a quirky
fun way. Most of the time. Yes, quite a lot
of the time, for sure. Yeah, I learned a lot
of recipes from Oh yes, TikTok. There we go. See.
I like to watch those videos that I never go
out and actually cook the thing. I did once, And
I'm going to be honest with you, well, actually I've

(49:14):
done a couple of times. But one of the times,
in particular, I cooked manicotti. I've never heard of manicotti before,
but I was like, I'm going to try it. And
I had to substitute so many ingredients because my local
shop in the middle of Northern Ireland doesn't have any
of the things I need. So I was like, I'm
sure I could substitute that for this. I'm sure it
will be fine. It was not fine, and I told

(49:35):
everybody on my stream the next day, and I had
so many Italian Americans who were like, oh my god,
you can't replace ricotto with cottage cheese. What were you thinking?
And I was like, I'm sorry, rooted here. I bet
it's one of those things where like if you had
replaced like one of the things, it would have been fine,
But there was so much that it's like the ship
of theseus, you know, like is it even manicotti at

(49:58):
this point or is it? Don't even second, don't even
taste the same. I was like, oh, well, I tried,
but you know, next time, I'm going to try again.
I'm sure a baker shop can sell ricotta somewhere. Yeah,
my local store not so much. I love riconta. Sorry,
great food. I'm not a huge cheese person. But the

(50:20):
thing about person are you see? Well, there were at
both ends of the spectrum, you know, are represented and
we agree everyone loves ricata pizza. Oh oh see, this
is the thing I could. I have a problem with cooking.
I I go down the rabbit hole with recipes that

(50:42):
I think, I see, this is weird. I have imposter syndrome.
But when it comes to cooking, I'm like, yeah, I
could totally cook that. Definitely a chef. I absolutely have
the scales required. I do not have the skills required.
I cannot even make pancakes. I have tried, and every
time I make pancakes because it has gone horribly wrong.
I don't know what it is. I don't know if

(51:02):
that's just like my my white whale thing. I don't
get like I can't do pancakes. But it's so funny.
I have to think. It's like, do you think it's
because with cooking, Like the reason you're so confident about
it is because like the stakes are so low versus
maybe your career. It's something that you probably hold very
dear and it's it's very important to you. So that's
why you feel a lot You maybe right, And I'm like, well,

(51:25):
I can just order like a pizza or whatever if
it all goes wrong. It's not yeah, sure, and you're
not feeding like a restaurant. It's just like, no, it's
just me. So if you're like, it's not, I won't
ruin your career. It's me and my partner. My partners
are really picking you or so if he doesn't like it,

(51:45):
I'm not even surprised, So it's like whatever it's playing, Yeah,
it's not a reflection on your food, then no reflection
on anything his mood of the day, you know what
I mean. I feel like I'm bringing us back a
little bit because I've kind of well, we both kind
of jumped towards asking you about like advice and stuff
because of course, with the next up initiative being kind

(52:06):
of potentially bringing people who have like no experience in
podcasting to learn. Um, but I would like to kind
of bring it back to your career and the things
that you've done. So I guess we're gonna kind of
talk about how you've leveled up was it worth? So?
What big challenges do you think you have overcome that
have brought you closer to the kind of boss level
moment of like you know, working through the impostor syndrome

(52:28):
and being able to continue producing and doing what you
do and how do you manage that? Um? Yeah, I
guess one thing would be I I used to not
speak up for myself, right I used to. I mean,
I'm still like a pretty shy, anxious person, but um,
I don't like to speak basically for a long time,

(52:51):
if something was going on, I had an opinion, I
just like wouldn't give it um And then I just
one day it was like, God, fuck it, I'm just
going to tell them how I feel. And it just
from there I was. It's been a process, but I've
started to kind of get over that feeling of like
what if people think I'm a bit because I'm like

(53:13):
being direct and like clear with what i want, which
is a classic thing with women, and if you're like
a woman of color, then you're just like difficult, which
is just all a life dream. Oh you guys, I
can't handle how much just everyone thinks women are just
shouldn't exist, you know, and and so like I it

(53:35):
took me a while, but I've become a lot more
comfortable just being like, no, I don't like that it
should go this way. And I'm telling you based off
my experience in this career, you know, like I have
come a long way when it comes to like really
holding my ground on stuff, um and and not, you know,

(54:00):
and there aren't Look, there are moments where I'll do that,
and then I'll spend the rest of the day like,
oh my god, they're gonna think I like such a bit,
you know, And I don't like to be rude. And
I'm not saying like be rude, but like, just like
even sometimes when you're a woman and you're holding your ground,
people just are like, yeah, like she's intense, you know,

(54:22):
like what's with her? She in a bad mood, and
it's like no, I just like I want to be
heard and I want to be taken seriously because I
actually do have experience in this field and my opinions
matter and I want that to be seen. And in
order to be seen, sometimes I have to be like,
excuse me, I'm talking, and uh, that's not always gone well,

(54:49):
but I've done my best to not let it um
destroy me outside of like you know, just classically having
my anxious nights stuff like per usual. But yeah, I
love everything you said, and I will say, like I agree.

(55:11):
You know. There's like I don't like to be a
rude person. I don't like people who are rude. I
think a lot of people can agree with that. But
I also think something I've worked on is not being
necessarily afraid to be rude, and like not in any
not in every situation. But like so the example I
like to give is um One of my favorite podcasts

(55:32):
is Crime Junkie and Um, the host Ashley Flowers has
the saying I know she really says that anymore, but
she used to say, UM, be weird, be rude, stay alive.
And that means that if you're in a situation where
like you just your gut feels off, you feel maybe unsafe,
and you want to get out of that situation, but
there's maybe someone like a predator kind of cornering you
or whatever, and you can get out, Like it's okay

(55:54):
to be rude. You know, you don't have to talk
to this person, like if you if you can get away,
but it would be rude to do so. Be rude,
be weird, be rude, stay alive. Yeah, I like that.
Actually that's like, I mean, it's a horrible like thought,
I guess at the same time, but it's a really
powerful thing. But I I feel I feel like especially

(56:14):
where I come from, UM, we're always conditioned very very
much to be polite and that you have to be
respectful at all times. And like culturally in Northern Ireland,
it's a very complicated thing because, um, when you have
imposter syndrome and you also are kind of like doubling
on with the cultural mindset of like never being too
like out there, and then you're also a woman and

(56:34):
you're trying, like you know, to not be too lude
and to not take up too much space. It's really
really tricky. And I actually I have an example as well,
because I when I worked in the Games in the
Street as a project manager, I was the chair of
a lot of our meetings because I was like running
project meetings, and I frequently had men who would talk
over women colleagues, and I would step in every time.

(56:56):
And there was one time in particular where a person
who I actually get along with super super well, and
he's he's actually left the game's industry as well and
become a really super successful streamer. It's very inspirational, it's
very cool. He's a really great guy. Um. He kept
messling around in the meeting. Um. He was quite young
at the time and he was just kind of like
joking around people. But he was talking over um, one
of the other project leads in the meeting, and I

(57:18):
stepped in and just said, hey, can you like you know,
ran it in and wait until later. UM. And that
was fine. He was totally fine with it. He was like, yep, sorry,
all good. We moved on. We finished the meeting, and
then one of the managers that I worked with came
up to me afterwards and said, I had no idea
that you could be so bossy, and that was the
first time that had ever happened to me. And I
was like, in what realm was my bossy? Like why

(57:42):
is that what you jumped to? The first thing? A
lot of the time that women faces that as soon
as you're in any way assertive, that's you being bossy
and that's somehow a bad thing. And it was so
weird because something clicked in me and instead, like up
until I guess maybe a year or too before that
in my career, someone had said that to me, I
would have been very like, oh my god, like I

(58:03):
didn't mean to give that impression. I have to like
pull that back. I was like, yeah, absolutely, I'll be bossy.
Then like the person that I was talking to was
totally fine with it and realized that they had done
something that they shouldn't have done, and we moved on.
So I'm yeah, I'm gonna keep being bossy if that's
what we're going to call that from now on, and
it was just still frustrating. It's one of those things

(58:25):
that like frequently really grinds my gears is knowing that,
like if you have to speak up for yourself, was
a woman that you were seen in such a negative
light and it's so frustrating. Yeah, I think that's something
we've all probably experienced many many times. Yeah. Absolutely, But

(58:46):
and that's but another thing like one of my like
my my therapist helped me a lot with like trying
to give less of a fuck of like what other
people think of me, and it still happens. I still
sometimes will find myself, like you know, my others who
get ruffled if there's like if I know someone doesn't
like me, But like, I can't really waste time on that.
That's not my problem. Not everyone's gonna like me. And

(59:07):
if they think that I'm like bitchy or bossy or
whatever and that's why they don't like me, that's okay.
I've got enough friends. Yeah that's fair. Yeah, it's a
really great way of looking at it too. Um, have
here donna hit any moments in your journey, I guess
towards a boss level. I'd like to bring that back, Um,

(59:28):
where you feel like things were just not working and
you needed to shake things up. You need to change
things around to keep moving forward. Um yeah, I mean
I think like that was early pandemic when I decided,
like I'm just gonna try and keep pushing next up.
I was like, I feel like, I mean, just knowing

(59:51):
I had made this like hitch for this program and
it was just sitting just a PDF on my computer
for like a year, I was like, I should I
need to just step up and you know push for it, um, which,
uh you know, I think I was like scared because

(01:00:12):
I also like I'd never run a program like that before,
So I think like conceptually, I was like, I'm just
gonna go do that, like I don't know what I'm doing,
uh and so, but like I kind of like but whenever,
like I know how to like run, I know, I
don't like run. You know. I produced multiple shows that

(01:00:33):
I like, you know, like I I helped create the
entire structure of daily zeit guys like every system, every
like logistical aspect of daily zey guys like I set
up there was it was me and Jack. Jack was like,
what equipment do we need? Like I went and bought
the iMac. I went and downloaded pro tools. It was
like all this stuff, Like I was like, get these mics,

(01:00:54):
do this, do this. I mean, of course I was
talking to people and getting everyone's input, but like I
went and set the whole situation up. I went and
was like we need this, we have to do this,
we need this person, we need it. Like it was
just like I was making it happen, and like I
was not giving myself, you know, like that respect of
like you know what you're doing. You've done this a
hundred times, You've produced so many shows that like go

(01:01:19):
do it, and so I think that having to kind
of like get over that and being like stopped just
sitting and like imagining a world where like there's more
like my heart can like give back, Like that was
the big thing, was like this is my heart, Like
we're one of the largest podcasting networks, Like if we

(01:01:43):
wanted to give back, we could give back, but someone
just has to go do it. And so like I
was like, God, I should just do it. I should
do it, should be be But then I always get
that POSSI but like why you? Who are you? You know?
And so like I think that was that where I
was like, you know it, get over it, just go
make it happen. And I still can't believe I like

(01:02:06):
did it, Like in my mind, I've really compartmentalized that
we did a whole program and have like eight podcasts
out of it. Like I'm like, yeah, right, I didn't
do that, And then I'm like, I guess I did.
But um, a lot of compartmentalizing, a lot of not
admitting to that impostor syndrome that it's okay to like
you can't let it know. You can't let it like
get ahold of anything. You just like know that lives

(01:02:28):
in that other box, so you're not a lot in
them even alone. Yeah, I know, I respect that. I
I feel like it's one of those things where if
you if you can get like this is I guess
if I could give advice to anybody who has imposter
syndrome as a person who totally doesn't actually manage it
very well at all, so my advice means nothing, But
it's the compartmentalizing is so so important, being able to

(01:02:50):
keep things separate because if you think about things for
too long, I feel like that's when it attacks and
it's like you just don't want to give it any
fuel I guess as your yeah, or like don't let it,
don't like let it come out in an important moment.
You know that's the whole. I don't love saying like
fake it tillia make it. But there is almost like

(01:03:12):
a put up somewhat of like a strong facade and
don't you know, like don't start crying in a meeting.
I mean like, look, I've done it. Sometimes you gotta
learn from your own mistakes. But like if you're really
trying to push for something, come in hot, come in
like yes, I do believe I could run this program.

(01:03:32):
And that's funny that you think I couldn't, you know,
like you have to almost be like maniacally like American psychoh.
And I think that's like kind of why men get
you know, like men get so far in life and
are like the president because you know, you got like
trumping like I am President and you're like okid, and
then you want you're like wait, what how did this happen?

(01:03:55):
Like I think he just believed he could yea literally
the kind of mad fascinating he just like was like
I believe I could be a president. You're like, what
qualifications and then he was president and you're like, oh
my god, it happened like it's literally from from the
perspective of someone who lives on the other side of
the world. I woke up and I was like, the
fuck he just happened. People who live here also had

(01:04:18):
this the same reaction, I promise, So it's not like
I think when he first announced he was running, was
like a very shocked I don't remember like where I
was when that happened, but you know, it was like
a very weird thing because it's like this person who
has no experience in politics that I know of, is
like running for the like pinnacle of the political positions

(01:04:39):
in this country. Like it it feels like it made
no sense. But yeah, he just kept saying I know
what I'm doing in like a very confident tone, and
like the half of America was like people trust him,
and you're like, what what He's just saying it in
a confident tone. It doesn't mean what happens in like
meeting and every people just men just walking up and

(01:05:03):
being like, yeah, no, I know what I'm doing. Have
you ever been in a meeting and you're listening to
a guy and he says something very confidently, but you're like,
he didn't say anything. He said a very long, like sweet,
very confidently yeah, And you're like and everyone's like, you're
right dude, and you're like anything he literally did make
say anything. Yeah, it just happened. And I sometimes think like,

(01:05:28):
am I in a completely different reality because I'm the
only person in the room sitting there going what Yeah,
You're like, okay, you you heard the same thing I heard.
Why are you guys acting like he just said something
so profound and deep and I'm sitting here like I
can poke holes all over this statement. And then you
know what, They're like, he's your boss now here? Like

(01:05:51):
so many times? Did you ever see? There was a
thing on Twitter a while ago of like, okay, so
it was a person who was trying to I think,
commission an artist for something an FT related, but they
just kept talking in circles about how just like do
you know, get capture the vibe? And the artist was like,
but what do you want? Like I don't what kind

(01:06:12):
of art do you want? Like? What kind of what
kind of content? I'm not just like a like a
digital artist, Like what kind of content? You don't think?
I was like I don't know, just like the vibe
and he just kept talking in circles and I was like,
I can kind at least thirty buzz words and that
one d M, and I still have no idea what
this person is talking about, what they're asking for. Yeah,
it's like I'm not an algorithm. Yeah, weird algorithm communicate.

(01:06:37):
It's absolutely bizarre. I find it really confusing. Um, So
I would like to also just since we're kind of
I guess we're kind of like deep diving into your
career a little bit. I'm sorry, I feel like we're
picking your brain a lot. I feel like I'm picking
your brain a lot. I feel like Jess is asking
these really insightful questions like Okay, tell me more. I'm
taking notes and I would like to know more about production,

(01:06:58):
like yes, how did that work? But um, do you
have your slight set on anything in particular for the future,
any like kind of long term goals that you have
for because like, I don't really, I guess I'm kind
of aiding myself here, is not really having a ton
of real insight into the career path when it comes
to like productions. So what kind of things are you

(01:07:20):
like looking to work towards I guess, um, I would
like to. I mean I would like, I'm working on
one project. I can't get too into it because it's
like a weird thing. I'll tell you guys off fair,
but I'm I'm working on one project which will come
out in two We'll see. Uh, let's just take a lot.

(01:07:43):
I'm too busy, like working on my job to like
also focus on my own podcast. But like I want
to create this like mini series which um, kind of
about my family, but also uh yeah, I mean, like
I hope to. I've started working on this, but I've
been like working on like you know, scripts for like
um sort of more like Persian family centric stories. Um.

(01:08:07):
I want to work more on that and then uh.
The good thing about podcasting is um. And I hate
to even say this because HBO said it once in
a news article and I was like, fuck you, but
we are somewhat I p forms uh And I apologize
to everyone for saying that because it's sick, but it's

(01:08:28):
Unfortunately the facts of life is that, like you can
turn podcasts into more if you want, and I think
a lot of production companies look for that and a
little bit of like ethnically ambiguous has like there's so
many of our own stories of like growing up with
like Middle Eastern parents, me my co host that like
there is something too farm from that and for myself,

(01:08:50):
and I would like to use that as like in
you know, like, look, I have the I p like
I've done this for years. I have the stories, and
I would like to turn that into a more like
narrative script um about kind of coming from a Middle
Eastern household. So that's kind of a future goal that
I've been working on for a few years now with

(01:09:13):
someone and it's a process um. And then I'm hoping
on this other podcast project I'm working on to kind
of take in a similar direction as my other podcast,
which is just basically find ways to take my stories
and create more stories, and create more stories and turn
them into bigger scale stories and keep them stories, keep moving,
and keep having people like understand what it's like to

(01:09:34):
be a potentially you know, Middle Eastern or a person
of color in this country. The process. Yeah, I'm sure,
and I think I I feel like you you're the
type of person who has probably like a lot of
ideas for cool projects that you want to do at
some point, and it's just finding the time when you
already have a ton of stuff on your plan to

(01:09:56):
be able to actually get those ideas and bring them
to reality you, which is the tricky part. Yeah, careers
are great, but they do get in the way of
your creativity. Sometimes they do very very much. That's a
great thing. That's encouraging and say, I have a career,
but just you might stifle you a little in some ways,
and you have to find the time to like focus
on I feel like that's something a lot of creative

(01:10:18):
people have to try and balance, and like, I frequently
feel like I'm a person I've spoken about this on
the podcast before where I feel like I'm a person
who went the opposite direction to the direction most people
go where they start in content creation and kind of
they move towards the games industry, like on the other side,
whereas I kind of burned out in the games industry
and swapped and it's it's a really weird direction. I

(01:10:41):
think it's a weird direction to go because I feel
like I I'm blessed to be in a position where
I can create content full time, but at the same time,
it's a really really odd kind of feel and it's
for me. I people always ask I frequently get like
college students asking if they should drop out of college
to become a streamer, to become a YouTuber or whatever,

(01:11:03):
and I'm always like, no, Like, I know, I'm a
college dropot, but that is unrelated. And also absolutely don't.
And I the only reason I could. I live in
Northern Ireland. Our cost of living it's going up, but
it is significantly lower than a lot of places in
the world, and I live with a person who also
helps pay the bills, so like it. It's a very,
very different experience. But I still feel like I encounter

(01:11:25):
every single day people who talk about how I like
they're the whole kind of having a career that is
external to the creativity process can completely stifl your ability
to actually get on those projects and get on like
your hobbies, even like having time and having a good
work life. Bolence is really really tricky, it really is,
and you've got to find time for yourself. And um,

(01:11:48):
I mean, I will say twitch is I mean just
streaming in general is truly like we're in such a
fascinating time where you can make like good my streaming,
like my partner watches so much Twitch, and I have
such like a weird knowledge about like you know, like
Apex Predator players that I would never have ever even

(01:12:10):
thought about, you know, at any point in my life,
but because my partner watches, and I'm like, oh, how's
he doing? Oh, viewers well, and you're just like watching
all these people who like they found a way to
make it work, and you're like, that is crazy that
we live in a time where this could be your
career yafitely, and I feel like we're at the beginning

(01:12:32):
of that time. For some degree, I know what's been
happening for a long time, but I feel like, no,
especially with the start of the pandemic, because so many
people actually had to start streaming because you know, they
weren't able to work or whatever, or they had the
time because they were working from home, and a lot
of people were watching streams because I locked on and
everything that I feel like a lot more people are
starting to kind of try to make it into a career,

(01:12:54):
and it's really exciting to me and really fascinating to
me that this is the kind of like digital content
environment and thing that we're kind of growing into. Knowing
I think that's really really exciting. I'm really kind of bummed.
I don't know if okay, well, we're all twenty one here,
but at the same time, I don't know that you
all feel like damn, I really wish that this had

(01:13:14):
happened when I was younger, because I I, like, I
really wish that which was a little baby when I
was younger, I wouldn't have been able to say yeah,
I wouldn't been able to stream. I was just I
was literally just born. I think it would have been
cool if there were a podcast when I was younger,
just to like something to listen to instead of the
classic like, um, what I would do, which is, uh,

(01:13:38):
wait until my favorite song came on the radio and
then record it onto a tape absolutely and then in
my backyard. Yes, oh, I had this horrible recording set
up before I had one of those like tape players
that you could record while you were listening to something,
where I had like a Jiankie microphone plugged in and
I was like holding it up to the speed word

(01:14:01):
and then my sister would burst into my room and
say something, but I got down at ruined. Yeah. I
would always be like, dad, stop talking. My dad I
own this house. What are you? What are you doing?
You stopped yelling at me, But yeah, it would have
been great if this yeah existed. Absolutely you pro agree? Yes,

(01:14:24):
Do you have any more questions before we sort of
bring it round to the ruind up and wrap up
our quest for the day. No, I don't. I loved
all your line of questioning. I feel like that was
really really good conversation that we had. I really enjoyed
our conversation. I'm just so sorry Anna that I went
on into like a I'm just going to probe your
brain as much as possible. I apologized that I was

(01:14:47):
just really curious because I feel like, um, this is
my first time my boss levels, my first time doing
like an actual podcast where um we host the podcast
because I've been gas I've guessed it on podcasts but
for but I've never actually like being one of the
hosts someone before. So I'm like, oh, I don't know
anything about the production side. I would like to grill

(01:15:07):
on that. And also you've done a lot of podcast yourself.
What what kind of little tidbits do you have to share?
So it's been really interesting. Thank you very very much. Um,
are there any projects you'd like to shout out or
anything new that's coming up that you'd like to share.
Um as a few a few shows that are out
right now let me pull up my I literally have
to write down how many shows. So there, you know

(01:15:28):
there's Daley Side Guys which you were on to go
check that out, Jesse, you have to come do it too. Yes,
I highly recommended. It was really awesome. Lost Culture resta Us,
which I don't even know if that needs promoting. People
love Lost Cultures. But a few other shows that I produced,
there's one we do about the Bachelor franchise called Will

(01:15:48):
You Accept This Rose? And it's hosted by Art and Marine.
If you guys love any of the Bachelor, check it
out Will You Accept This Rose? We have a lot
of fun um and then Um Dear Oh Wilson, which
is hosted by comedian Blair Saki, which is all about
like comedians. It's kind of an improv sort of whacka
doo podcast where comedians write letters to their favorite celebrities

(01:16:11):
and then Blair, the host uh kind of sixty minutes
style interviews the comedian about their celebrity love, which is
really it goes, it goes in some rural whackado directions.
They're really recommended if you're into that. UM. And then
one podcast we just finished the second season season of
and I love it. It's called Truth Hounds with Anna

(01:16:35):
Sarah Gina and Kyle Mazzono, and it's two comedians who
are solving very mundane mysteries and it is one of
the funniest shows. It's it's if you like shows like
Nathan for You and How To with John Wilson, where
it starts in one direction, goes on a wild ride
and then comes back finally after like so much has happened,

(01:16:55):
and and then they were trying to solve something like
what is fear? And why can't tyle away? You know,
it's like simple stuff like that, or like why does
time fly when I'm having fun? And they go on
these crazy, crazy investigations. And I really recommended truth Hounds.
That sounds really fascinating. It's pretty I love stuff like that. Actually,

(01:17:16):
it's really really fun. Jess, do you have anything coming
up next that you would like to share? Um, The
only thing I would like to plug is that for
my job at Gamers Outreach, we have begun um prepping
and and gearing up for our next big charity fundraising event,
which is called the Spooktacular stream Mathon takes place for
the entire month of October. So if anyone is a

(01:17:36):
streamer who happens to be listening slash watching and wants
to get involved with a charity cause, get in contact
with me and we'll get you on board for the
Spooktacular Streams. I was It's like, yeah, you love spook things,
So I'm very excited about that because it feels like
Halloween is coming early since we're like, you know, I'm
like talking about this Halloween stuff and we have all
these Halloween themed imagery on all of our branding, so

(01:17:58):
very exciting. Times love spooky stuff. That's very exciting. I
on the other hand, I'm doing absolutely nothing. I am
taking a vacation. Um, I have finally decided, you know what,
I've done a lot of stuff and it's summer and
I have to enjoy the Like I would like to
say it's the two weeks of summer because I'm taking
two weeks off, but realistically, I'm going today was probably

(01:18:19):
our one day of summer, so um, I'm going to
enjoy whatever nice weather I can have. And I'm going
to spend as much time in the sunshine as possible.
And I actually just got a laptop finally, an actual
business like, I ordered a business laptop and I'm going
to get back into writing again. So I'm hoping I
can since I'm writing in the sun, because that sounds nice,
although I know it will probably just end up with
me not writing in the sun. I'll be writing in

(01:18:41):
my but at least I have a lot of I
can try, you know. Okay, that's great. I know. Where
can people find you across the web? Um, I'm at
an host on Twitter and I'm at selling host n
on Instagram and yeah, you guys mentioned earlier, I have
a Twitch show every Tuesday nights called Deckheads Chief stews

(01:19:04):
with Molly Lambert and we talk about the Bravo show
below deck and all other sort of reality TV and
Bravo shows, you know, like Real Housewives and all that
good stuff. So yeah, every Tuesday night, you can follow
us at deckheads pod to find out when we're streaming
what we're doing. Sweet and jas. Where can people find you? Um?

(01:19:28):
I am on Twitter and Instagram at just bro Hard.
I guess I'm on TikTok as well. These days, I
pretty have post videos from Instagram to TikTok, So if
you follow me on Instagram, don't follow me on TikTok,
and you're going to see the same content. But that's cool,
though you have to cross post. You gotta recycle that
content and get all that engagement on other platforms. That's

(01:19:50):
how it works. Never do it. You never know when
something will like not do so well on one platform
and then the exact same video will like pop off
on a different platform. So frequently I have videos that
do super well on TikTok and then I put on
Instagram and nobody cares, and then vice versa. And I'm
just like, I don't understand algorithms. I feel like I'm
only twenty one and yet I am too old for

(01:20:11):
the algorithms I don't understand. So I am Psyche on twitch,
twitch dot tv for sar Psyche. I'm live four days
a week, and I'm also on Twitter and YouTube is
on Instagram, I suppose as Psyche plays, and on TikTok
as Psyche twitch, and I'm trying really hard to produce
content and all the places, but I'm not very good
at keeping it up, but I'm trying my best. Thank

(01:20:34):
you very much everyone for all your supports so far.
Don't forget to follow us on social media at the
Boss Level Pod That's Boss Lvl Pod, and subscribe to
our YouTube channel for videos these episodes. You can find
all of our links on Twitter, including a link to
our discord if you'd like to hang out with us
behind the scenes. And Anna, thank you so much for
taking the time to talk with us today and allowing
us to pick your brain. It's been really great. Thank

(01:20:56):
you for having me no problem, and thank you Jes
it's lovely to record with you as always. Thank you
for hosting Psyche. You did such a great job, so
what did you? Thank you. We will see you all
in the next episode. Bye everyone, Bye bye