August 27, 2024 • 31 mins
With Steven recording from Spain, the co-hosts take this moment in the heat of August to talk about the importance of taking breaks, comparing American culture with regards to work and vacations versus Europe and many other parts of the world. (Spoiler: the U.S. ranks LAST). Both Marisa and Steven riff on the brands of both of the political parties in the wake of the DNC and RNC… and cover some recent business / CEO change headlines. This episode ends with a great listener question on knowing when and how far to rebrand.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, and thanks for joining us on brand New from
the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And I'm Stephen wolf Fanta and I've just been glued
to social media ORSA watching all things D and C.
And I'm not gonna lie. It's been pretty exciting, you know,
joy and hope. We're bringing back some really great campaign
(00:34):
lines tagline. They're dusting off the hope message. It's actually
been pretty inspired. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I agree. I've been watching it too. I've been watching
some of it live and good old regular TVs. We've
been talking about who does that with the Olympics versus streaming?
Same thing with these political conventions, both the RNC and
the GNC.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You're ready watching like the full, like thirty minute speech.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, well, you know, because it's on in primetime. We
flipped around. Yeah, we wanted to catch at least some
of it, and then the parts that we didn't see,
both earlier or later, we've been picking up on social media,
just like just like.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You, is this just me denying my aide? Maybe I'm like,
really gen z because I'm just watching it all on
YouTube born social media.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
No, No, it makes sense. That's normally how I consume it,
and I would say it's still a big chunk of
how I'm consuming it. But you know, there are certain
things that feel like when they are events that this
goes back to some of our discussions on where is
live viewership still happening? And I think the ratings have
been fairly good from what I've been reading, but it
(01:39):
is interesting just to see. You know, remember when we
had Jeff Jackson on a few weeks ago. He's a
Democratic congressman, but it was right when the Republican National
Convention was happening. And one of the things I loved
about having Jeff on is he calls it like he
sees it, and it's real, and he was frankly in
a way complementary of the republ like a national Convention
(02:01):
in terms of the theater and the creation of theater,
and that he thought it actually was acknowledged it in
some weird way. It was brilliant to have a whole
Kogan or other figures like that because of what they
were trying to do. And now we're watching the DNC
and you could argue everyone from Oprah to Ken Chenault,
former CEO of American Express I mean that was a
(02:25):
very interesting decision and I think a shrewd one.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well. I mean, I love seeing, you know, lots of
different CEOs, right, I mean, they certainly had the CEO
of the NAACP, they had my friend Marie Theresa Kumar,
the CEO of Votino. But to have corporate CEOs like
Kenchin out there, I do think that it is signaling
to the business community and you know Wall Street, you know,
is obviously the audience there. You know that they're going
(02:50):
to be good for business, good for the economy, and
I don't know, it just feels such different energy and
just the messages are just so interesting. When you think
about these brands, the brand of Democrat ors a Republican,
I just feel that they are really just so divergent
and they're seeing such a different message. But at the
end of the day, I just don't think that people
(03:10):
are that different. Right, When you actually get people together
in a room, you could talk about these things if
you just disagree. I don't know. I've just been very
impressed with the way the entertainment value of the DNC
And again not hating on Ulk Hogan, but I feel
like there's got to be better people out there, and
you just see the talent that is showing up for
(03:30):
the DNC. It's just a different caliber. It's just a
different level.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I feel sensitive to not wanting us to drive a
political agenda on branding, but looking at it purely through
that lens of storytelling. I mean, ultimately, that's what a
political convention is. It is a moment to tell your
story and to get people worked up and excited and
behind you. And that's why conventions are meant to show
(03:56):
a bump. And you know, this is going to be
a very challenging election season, well for both candidates but
also for America in terms of the stakes. Feeling very
very high.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
But you hit on something which you know, certainly I
think near and dead to our hearts, which is, you know,
the corporate lens on you know, these kind of things,
and to see a CEO show off. I mean, there's
been I think some interesting news with CEOs that are
certainly close to home to you, right, There's been some
changes happening.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, Well, I mean my phone was on fire the
other day starting early in the morning when it was
announced that there's going to be a new CEO of
Starbucks and his name was Brian Nickel, and he was
my CEO that brought me to Taco Bell. He went
on from Taco Bell to Chipotle and did a wonderful
job at Chipotle. So now to sort of see him
(04:46):
becoming CEO of Starbucks pretty stunning. I think it was
a really shrewd like we got.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Tagos, we got burrito bowls, and now we got a coffee.
I mean, this is just like what our perfect meal.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well yeah, I mean, by the way, that's going to
be complicated. Starbucks is a big global business. But I
think he's excited for the challenge. And the cool thing
about seeing someone like Brian get into that role is
Brian was a CMO, a chief marketing officer. He came
up through marketing p ANDNG.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Wait a second, as CMO could be a CEO. What
are you saying? Is that like mind blown? How's that possible?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Well, I know it's easy to be sarcastic because it
just should be more the case. And I will say
one of the things I loved about my time working
in QSR, which is the industry of fast food quick
service restaurants technical name for it, I found that the
orientation of that business was very much looking at people
(05:47):
like me to run the business. You know, Marketing wasn't
some subservient function. Marketing was really central and as a result,
it was really considered the pipeline to CEO talent. And
I I really wish more industries had that same approach.
In fact, Brian's predecessor, who became then the CEO of
(06:08):
Young which is the parent company of which Taco Bell
is apart, was also the CMO of Taco Bell and
then became the CEO of Taco Bell and then became
CEO of the parent company. So then I leave and
go to another industry and it's just not wired that way.
So it's very fascinating that it feels like a funny
(06:28):
thing or a surprising thing. It shouldn't be newsworthy that
we're having it through the lens of, oh my gosh,
a former CMO. Because marketers are great at understanding how
to drive growth, and I don't know why boards aren't
jumping at this faster than we expected them to. Boards
are still slow to put marketers on boards.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Two observations there. One is certainly maybe CpG is another
industry where you could see cmos of ventury rise up
to the rank because they're running a P and L
very different the way CpG company is being run, and
they get to rise up to CEO. Yeah, into our
product goods, right or fast moving consumer.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Goods, consumer products CpG.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I would be hard pressed to see a CMO become
the CEO in financial services or at a technology company
or frankly even a retailer, right, because that's so driven
by the merchants. I think the second observation is Taco
Bell must be this incredible reading ground of talent. And
I'll go on record that I think the goat of
(07:33):
cmos that we're at Talko Bell is you, miss Marrissa Polpe, and.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
My partner is not biased at all, but thank you.
I appreciate it all.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Not at all. That's the technical observation, but I do
feel that, you know, the whole idea of cmos becoming CEOs,
we need to see more of that. And I think
it's just showcasing the talent. If they understand business, they
understand how to drive growth, I'm just and how to
really generate alpha, and I think that's ultimately what we're
talking about. It's a great accomplishment. Make sure I reload
(08:01):
my Starbucks card and help burn it out.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, you know, I give credit to our friends like
Jenny Rooney at Adweek and people behind Adweek who are
pointing this out in their editorial coverage and really taking
a moment to celebrate when another CMO becomes a CEO.
It occurs to me that I would like to be
past the point, much like when we celebrate a woman
(08:25):
being in the CEO landscape of the Fortune five hundred,
because there's still too few of us, and it will
be nice when it's a postmodern thing, meaning it's just
not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Of course, well in person of color. But again that's
a whole other post.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Isn't it related that there's still just a bias in
corporate America? And maybe some of the bias is fair.
I mean, traditionally there have been certain skill sets and
certain archetypes that have lent themselves to being CEOs. But
the world of business has changed, and I'd argue so
should the landscape of who makes for a great leader
at the top.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I think you just gave me a spark of an idea.
I think for future guests, we're going to get someone
from one of the executive search firms and we are
going to have them be our guest so that we
could ask them directly about some of the research that's
out there, because certainly a lot of the search firms
that are responsible for putting people into these roles in
the first place, you know, they continue to go back
(09:22):
to the same kind of group of folks, usually men,
and it's usually the CEOs and CFOs that are going
to continue to get those types of roles, either in
the C suite or on board love it. So I
think that should definitely be a future.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Guests All right, deal, well, when we come back, let's
get to our hot topic of this episode, and to
tee it up, tell everyone where you are right now.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I am right now in the south of Spain, in
the beautiful city of mada Beja.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So we're going to talk a little bit about taking breaks,
burnout out, having arrest and do we do this the
right way in the United States or maybe other people
do this a little better than we do. When we
come back.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And we're back for this episode's hot topic, and it
really has to do with are we doing this right?
And you know, when we say doing this, I think
it's really about not just vacation but do we know
how to take a break. And it is the month
of August. And you know, I am border raised New Yorker,
(10:36):
so I have that New York work ethic. But I'm
also very proud Latino, as I like to say, I'm
a two hundred percenter one hundred percent American and one
hundred percent Dominican. But the interesting thing is, you know,
my roots are Spanish and Portuguese, and I decided to
kind of take some time off with the fam to
come to South of Spain and really just get off
(10:58):
the grid. I just feel that they do it right
in Europe Wressela like I mean, certainly in a lot
of places around the world, but specifically, you know, kind
of in Spain. I mean, the whole month of August,
people take off. You go to Madrid and we were
walking around looking for some restaurants and you'd see like
signs in the window like oh, we're gone for the
month of August, come back in September. And so I
just feel that taking a break, finding a way to recharge,
(11:20):
be with your family, just really find a way not
to have the burnout of corporate rat race. It's so difficult,
and I'm just so curious, like how do you think
about it? Like do you think people can really even
take that time? I mean it's August. You know, hopefully
some people are taking vacation, but I know a lot
of folks can't.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
This is one of those things where I believe the
tone really has to be set from the top, because
people look both for the literal examples and the maybe
more subtle cues about what's accepted. Because in spite of
the idea that people are quite quitting and all that stuff,
(12:01):
in American work life and maybe in work in general
around the globe, people care and they want to do well,
and were wires human beings to want to feel successful
and to make others proud of us. And if there's
a signal that it is considered slacking inappropriate, a lack
of commitment to take time off, it becomes a very
(12:24):
big source of stress and guilt. And if I may,
I connect this back to my early days running Executive Moms,
because I think there is a uniqueness that women feel,
particularly when they become moms in general, about navigating those choices.
I used to call it the daily calculus of decision making.
(12:46):
And it doesn't mean and I actually want men to
care about this as much as women do. But there
is a different wiring of guilt when you're trying to
navigate those choices between your kids pulling on you in
a certain way and work, and we want to do
well with all of it. So I think that same
feeling can come into play about taking vacation. And to
(13:06):
your point, it's not the way it is in the
rest of the world. It's just not.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
We're data junkie. So here's some data for you. Certainly
a lot of folks and other people in Europe take
you know, kind of the month of August off, but
specifically France and Germany they actually have thirty days of
paid vacation annually, not including public holidays, and in places
like Brazil they actually have also thirty days of paid vacation.
You know, place like Sweden and Norway they have an
(13:33):
twenty five to thirty days. And it turns out that
the US, because we always like to be number one,
we are the leader in taking the least amount of vacation,
we are the worst when it comes to taking a break.
And on average, Americans took eleven days off and only
half of Americans plan to use all of their allocated
(13:55):
vacation time. So there must be something in the water
where it's like, Okay, you have a vacation time, but
you really don't have it because you either feel pressure,
you can't get away, you're worried about losing your job,
or you're worried about what your boss is going to say.
If there's something really just messed up that you cannot
take the time that is allotted to you. And again,
(14:15):
that is not a lot of time to begin with.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Again, this is very much psychological wiring and culture. So
I think for a long time it's been considered a
badge of honor to tell everyone, Oh, I haven't taken
vacation in two years. You sort of martyr yourself to it,
and it is not a coincidence. At the same time,
there are many reports suggesting there's record burnout among executives
(14:42):
in the United States. So vacations exist for a reason.
And listen, you know, my feeling is someone who's managed
people for a long time, I felt this way about
just someone who needed to navigate their daily schedule. It
definitely extends to vacations. Here's my feeling. I ever found
myself wondering where someone on my team was that suggested
(15:06):
a bigger problem that had nothing to do with them
literally needing to be in my face around.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
But do you think that would be a reflection on
you as the manager or on the talent you know themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
No, I think it is about someone in this day
and age where work has so many different expressions in
terms of in office, out of office, remote and when
we've touched that controversy and that topic. So I'm not
trying to bring back return to office into this conversation
per se, only that when someone is accountable, you're not
(15:39):
thinking about, oh, I wonder where that persons. You just
trust them and trust they're doing their job. And similarly,
I want to be the kind of manager that makes
my people feel good about them taking vacations because it
is necessary, And in turn, I think what we managers
or leaders want is accountability. The other way that, of course,
(16:00):
when someone's out it puts stress maybe on other people
and resources, and that you're just trying to be responsible
to the work and making sure things don't completely fall
apart when you're gone. To me, that's the real implicit
contract that we have at work. But the idea that
the way to solve it is just to never take
vacation and suffer. Feels really wrong and definitely not European.
(16:23):
To your point about what life in Spain or the
rest of Europe is like in the month of August.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think there are corporate cultures. I'm not talking out
at school here. I mean these are companies that are
very known for this. I mean Netflix, Salesforce, they have
unlimited vacation policies, but no one ever takes them because
you understand that you're not supposed to do those things.
You're not supposed to take unlimited vacation right because you'll
be out of a job. So then you can be
(16:51):
you know, taking them limitedfication.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, and there's some cynicism about unlimited PTO is really
just a way to not have to pay people out
and they leave and so forth.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So absolutely, my point was more it really is about
the company culture.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, you could be.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
The most incredible manager, and again you have people that
have flocked you from you know, job to job wherever
you've been in a leadership role or so you have
people that have followed you. I think it's part of
the reason that you have been such a great mentor
you know talent. It's because you are a great leader
and you nurture and you are empathetic, and you would
give people that kind of flexibility if they want to
(17:27):
takeifaication time or personal time whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Wait, I'm getting good compliments from you, Like you couldn't
go to Spain more often? This is really like this
is working for me.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
It's all the harmony that it's all the good food.
That's a whole other pot as well. The food here
is amazing and healthy, and the portions that are smaller,
but again different pods. Yes, but you could be an
amazing manager, but the corporate culture might still be toxic, right,
the corporate culture might not doone that. And so we've
alls been in companies where there's like this oasis of
(17:58):
a group that they have a great leader and everyone
flocks to that group, but the rest of the company
is just toxic or they're just miserable, or it's the fiefdoms.
And so I just feel like when you're a gen Z,
you know, kind of coming up through the ranks, like
you're just like, what is this bullshit? Like I don't
want to be a part of that, Like I don't
want to be in that culture. And that's why I
(18:20):
do feel that this whole everyone's saying come back to work,
you know, remote work doesn't really work anymore when it
did perfectly well. I feel like it's a little bit
of what kind of culture are you in? And does
the company really give a shit about you? And I
think those are questions that we all need to ask
because at the end of the day, you got one shot.
This is your life, this is how you design your life,
(18:42):
and you really need to make the most of this time.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Okay, this is going to sound like a total non sequitor,
but stay with me on this for a second. Okay, Okay,
Way back when when I was in the advertising side,
I worked on the Clareal like herbal Escences shampoo business,
remember that famous like it's a totally organic experience. I've
totally dated myself. But anyway, I had this idea and
(19:06):
they never it never got bought. But I had this
idea that something about the idea that your best inspiration
comes in the shower, and that like you could we
could have some fun with like then the shampoos made
it even better. Why is that it's actually true? Because
when you're in the shower, you're actually everything just sort
(19:27):
of stops and you're taking a break. Your mind wanders
and sometimes our best thoughts, right don't we always say
our best thoughts come in the shower. To me, shower
is a micro example of what we're talking about and
why there's actually value in getting off the treadmill of
work in terms of the work quality, because in the
(19:51):
fields that we're in in particular, you need to actually
allow your mind to wander a little bit. You need
to be out in the world to get inspired and
experience things and see other things. And that comes back
often in Spain. So does it mean we can go
on truly unlimited vacations in the world to work. No,
(20:12):
But does a siesta a vacation make a whole lot
of sense in terms of our energy levels but also
our inspiration. I think it does, all right.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So not to get all nerdy and wonky. So it
is true because warm water is actually a trigger for
the release of dopamine, and that as a neurotransmitter, the dopamine,
you know, increasing your dopamine levels actually leads to heightened creativity.
(20:43):
So it is a true thing.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Being nerdy with you, Yes, it.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Is a true thing. If you're in the you know shower,
I take a nice, nice worm shower. It is actually
a place for creativity, but it actually is tied to
you being in this relaxed state with your mind wandering,
where you are able to change your envirol and actually
have the ability for releasing. Don't mean where you are
going to have heightened creativity. I just feel like that
(21:09):
is something which is wheally the takeaway, and you need
that for business? What does every single business want they
want more creativity in an AI era? What are you
going to need humans being more creative? And so if
you do not give the space where we could recharge,
where we could think, where we could actually inspire ourselves
so that we can actually be more creative at work,
you're not going to be able to be productive. And
(21:30):
I just feel like this is something where again, giving
this message to the c suite, to the CEO, the CFO,
you know, whoever is the hard ass inside of the
company that needs to hear this message. Share them this pod.
Hopefully they could take, you know, a nugget or two,
but you know, I feel like everyone needs to get
that message.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
See, I think you just validated that that would have
been a good campaign idea that I came up with.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I'm just saying, yes, we're coming full circle your advertising genius,
and yes that would have been awesome. So, however's listening now?
I could do it on social Yeah, run with it.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I mean, I just gave you who's ever marketing any
product that exists in the shower? There's a free idea
for you, Stephen. Like last thought on this, why do
the Europeans and other cultures have this wired into their
(22:27):
behaviors so much differently than we do here? Is it
possible we'll ever be more like the Europeans in that
one regard?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I do think that it's kind of courses for courses,
right in the sense that we live in the ultimate
capitalist society and the measure of success is going to
be money or fame or all these vapid things. And
I just feel that the center of gravity for some
(22:57):
of these countries, it really is not the pursuit of
capitalism per se. It's really about the pursuit of relationships.
And when you think about the family unit, when you
think about just the concept, I mean, you know, Latino
families are famous for this. I told my mom, you know,
when my parents were still alive that I was going
to college in Boston, and she basically broke down in
(23:20):
tears because I was going to be away away from her,
away from family. And you know, maybe other families in
the US they're like, oh, go away, we want the
kids out of the house. It's just not the case.
And so in a lot of Latin American countries and
a lot of European countries, kids actually stay at home
through college. Like that is a foreign concept to us
in America. But like, you don't move away, you know,
(23:43):
across the country when you go to college. You actually stay,
you know, living at home in your hometown. It's just
a very different way of life, very different system of
you know, kind of capitalism. And I just feel that
there are different priorities and values. I'm not saying that
one is better than the other, but I know the
one that I prefer. And if there's a way to
kind of have some type of balance where you could
(24:04):
certainly be successful, you know, have capitalistic success, business success,
professional success, but certainly balance it with personal and family success,
I think that has to be you know, the win,
you know, finding your achy guy and finding way to
balance those things.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well, we took a little vacation this episode from having
a guest and thereby took a little vacation from playing
cooler cringe. But maybe our one cooler cringe question for
each other. I think now everyone knows how we're going
to answer it, So cooler cringe working really hard but
also taking vacation, should we say it at the same time?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Cool? Way cool? I'm a big believer work hard, play harder.
So if there's a way that you could find a time,
take a break, if you're listening, whatever it is, the
work will be there, But get that time to be
with your family, with your kids, with a loved one,
with your parent, with your parents are alive, tell them me,
love them, call them. I wish I could do that
every day. Oh same, But the truth is, you know
(25:00):
you get one shot. This is your life. You need
to design it and part of it is taking a break.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Well, on that note, it's now time for what's on
your minds Steven want to read the question?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yes, so this week it comes from Mark. How do
you know when a brand needs a refresh or a
complete rebrand and what are the first steps to take
in that process? That feels like a really loaded question mark.
I mean just a simple quick refresh or a complete rebrand.
I mean it feels like opposite ends of the spectrum.
But I have to imagine this is something that you
(25:35):
definitely have tackle with, Marisa. I know I have. On
the B to B side.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I love this one.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I think it's very important and part of the credibility
of marketers to ensure that when you're looking at this
anew that it's not about your own ego or desire
to put your own fingerprints on something. It's really born
out of a deep and thoughtful understanding of where a
brand is and what isn't isn't working, And then it
(26:02):
comes down to saying doesn't need a revolution or does
it need an evolution, and oftentimes an evolution can really work.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
That's deep.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well, it's actually I didn't mean it so much to
be deep as I meant it to be practical, because
the implications for revolution are actually quite expensive. We brought
up Taco bell a couple of times on this episode.
I will say that when I was chief marketing officer
of Taco Bell, I did initiate changing the logo of
(26:33):
that brand, and it was the first time in twenty
five years. I did not take that lightly though, because
it's expensive to change out a logo.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
It's as expensive, but it's got to be so hard
politically internally, all the stakeholders have got to convince.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Right consumers by the way often I mean, think of
all the logos that have been redone. Consumers generally turn
on you more quickly than they celebrate you. So even
in that sense, there's some risk to it. But it
really depends what you mean. Mark with this question of
brand need to refresh or complete, rebrand like, it might
be because the mark of the brand itself needs reinventing,
(27:13):
a kind of interpret it a bit literally that way,
But it also is just that constant stewardship that we
do of how to keep a brand feeling fresh. It
may not be redoing how the brand shows up, redoing
the whole visual identity of it, redoing all of its
marketing communications. It might just be this is more the
(27:34):
evolution note. It might just be about updating its wardrobe
a little bit. If we think of brands as people,
you know, how do you just make it walk with
a little bit of different confidence or a different tone.
And sometimes the real art of what we do is
a little bit more subtle. I don't have a simple
answer in terms of how do you know the answer
is that you have to do the work to be
(27:55):
honest about assessing how much of the brand's presence is
the problem and how much is everything else factoring into that,
and then revolution versus evolution. It's a really important distinction.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's a powerful insight. I also think that a rebrand
is not a logo, like I feel like it's such
a misperception. And obviously you've done it on the B
C side. I've done it more on the B to
B side. I got to be the chief marketing communications
also at a company called Comcast. There's an AI behavioral
(28:31):
analystic company, and I got there and it wasn't to
your point, taking lightly, but we did a complete rebrand
which was meant to be more evolution, but it had
to serve the business, and I feel like we were
going in a different direction. This was very early, you know,
kind of days where data and marketing was kind of
(28:52):
start to talk about AI, but no one really knew
anything about AI. We had a lot of credibility because
of just you know, the history of the company. The
found are all machine learning PhDs like we actually were
doing AI and we needed this gravitas to be a
part of it. So we did this rebrand, but it
was it was hard to convince folks internally and then
(29:12):
how do you position that externally? And again you need
to have the budget for it, You have to convince
the CFO. You have to really understand what are going
to be the business outcomes and why are you doing it?
And sometimes you do it to kind of make the
company I relevant, That's right. The company was not in
the conversation, was not in the zeit case at the time,
and just that refresh just brought in all this new
(29:33):
interests and buzz and it really kind of tied with
a new product suite that we're really trying to kind
of introduce to the marketplace. So there was a business
reason to do it. But again, the brand is the business.
The business is the brand, And I feel like you
really need to think about what you just said, which
is evolution versus revolution.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Look, I love that too, And just to close on
the question, if you start with that clear eyed view,
you're more likely to make good decisions if you recognize
that the knee jerk shouldn't be Oh, I've got to
change it up. And if you start from a more
conservative posture and then you come to the conclusion that no,
(30:11):
actually the business imperative is this brand needs a revolution,
then you know that's the right path. Well, on that note,
that's it for now. Thank you so much for joining us.
We hope you like the banter between Steven and me today,
and if you like what you're hearing from us in
every episode and have it already, please subscribe. Also, if
(30:33):
you want us to answer one of your questions, like
we just did with Marx, tell us what's on your
mind by emailing us at Ideas at branddshnew dot com, look.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
For us across all social LinkedIn threads, you name it. Honestly,
we really really want you to take some time think
about yourself, take the break right after labor Day. It's
going to come hot and heavy. All the conference circuit.
It's going to be very, very busy. We want you
to be refreshed and we will see you next time
on Brand New
Speaker 1 (31:10):
M
Hello, and thanks for joining us on brand New from
the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And I'm Stephen wolf Fanta and I've just been glued
to social media ORSA watching all things D and C.
And I'm not gonna lie. It's been pretty exciting, you know,
joy and hope. We're bringing back some really great campaign
(00:34):
lines tagline. They're dusting off the hope message. It's actually
been pretty inspired. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I agree. I've been watching it too. I've been watching
some of it live and good old regular TVs. We've
been talking about who does that with the Olympics versus streaming?
Same thing with these political conventions, both the RNC and
the GNC.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You're ready watching like the full, like thirty minute speech.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, well, you know, because it's on in primetime. We
flipped around. Yeah, we wanted to catch at least some
of it, and then the parts that we didn't see,
both earlier or later, we've been picking up on social media,
just like just like.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You, is this just me denying my aide? Maybe I'm like,
really gen z because I'm just watching it all on
YouTube born social media.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
No, No, it makes sense. That's normally how I consume it,
and I would say it's still a big chunk of
how I'm consuming it. But you know, there are certain
things that feel like when they are events that this
goes back to some of our discussions on where is
live viewership still happening? And I think the ratings have
been fairly good from what I've been reading, but it
(01:39):
is interesting just to see. You know, remember when we
had Jeff Jackson on a few weeks ago. He's a
Democratic congressman, but it was right when the Republican National
Convention was happening. And one of the things I loved
about having Jeff on is he calls it like he
sees it, and it's real, and he was frankly in
a way complementary of the republ like a national Convention
(02:01):
in terms of the theater and the creation of theater,
and that he thought it actually was acknowledged it in
some weird way. It was brilliant to have a whole
Kogan or other figures like that because of what they
were trying to do. And now we're watching the DNC
and you could argue everyone from Oprah to Ken Chenault,
former CEO of American Express I mean that was a
(02:25):
very interesting decision and I think a shrewd one.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well. I mean, I love seeing, you know, lots of
different CEOs, right, I mean, they certainly had the CEO
of the NAACP, they had my friend Marie Theresa Kumar,
the CEO of Votino. But to have corporate CEOs like
Kenchin out there, I do think that it is signaling
to the business community and you know Wall Street, you know,
is obviously the audience there. You know that they're going
(02:50):
to be good for business, good for the economy, and
I don't know, it just feels such different energy and
just the messages are just so interesting. When you think
about these brands, the brand of Democrat ors a Republican,
I just feel that they are really just so divergent
and they're seeing such a different message. But at the
end of the day, I just don't think that people
(03:10):
are that different. Right, When you actually get people together
in a room, you could talk about these things if
you just disagree. I don't know. I've just been very
impressed with the way the entertainment value of the DNC
And again not hating on Ulk Hogan, but I feel
like there's got to be better people out there, and
you just see the talent that is showing up for
(03:30):
the DNC. It's just a different caliber. It's just a
different level.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I feel sensitive to not wanting us to drive a
political agenda on branding, but looking at it purely through
that lens of storytelling. I mean, ultimately, that's what a
political convention is. It is a moment to tell your
story and to get people worked up and excited and
behind you. And that's why conventions are meant to show
(03:56):
a bump. And you know, this is going to be
a very challenging election season, well for both candidates but
also for America in terms of the stakes. Feeling very
very high.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
But you hit on something which you know, certainly I
think near and dead to our hearts, which is, you know,
the corporate lens on you know, these kind of things,
and to see a CEO show off. I mean, there's
been I think some interesting news with CEOs that are
certainly close to home to you, right, There's been some
changes happening.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, Well, I mean my phone was on fire the
other day starting early in the morning when it was
announced that there's going to be a new CEO of
Starbucks and his name was Brian Nickel, and he was
my CEO that brought me to Taco Bell. He went
on from Taco Bell to Chipotle and did a wonderful
job at Chipotle. So now to sort of see him
(04:46):
becoming CEO of Starbucks pretty stunning. I think it was
a really shrewd like we got.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Tagos, we got burrito bowls, and now we got a coffee.
I mean, this is just like what our perfect meal.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well yeah, I mean, by the way, that's going to
be complicated. Starbucks is a big global business. But I
think he's excited for the challenge. And the cool thing
about seeing someone like Brian get into that role is
Brian was a CMO, a chief marketing officer. He came
up through marketing p ANDNG.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Wait a second, as CMO could be a CEO. What
are you saying? Is that like mind blown? How's that possible?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Well, I know it's easy to be sarcastic because it
just should be more the case. And I will say
one of the things I loved about my time working
in QSR, which is the industry of fast food quick
service restaurants technical name for it, I found that the
orientation of that business was very much looking at people
(05:47):
like me to run the business. You know, Marketing wasn't
some subservient function. Marketing was really central and as a result,
it was really considered the pipeline to CEO talent. And
I I really wish more industries had that same approach.
In fact, Brian's predecessor, who became then the CEO of
(06:08):
Young which is the parent company of which Taco Bell
is apart, was also the CMO of Taco Bell and
then became the CEO of Taco Bell and then became
CEO of the parent company. So then I leave and
go to another industry and it's just not wired that way.
So it's very fascinating that it feels like a funny
(06:28):
thing or a surprising thing. It shouldn't be newsworthy that
we're having it through the lens of, oh my gosh,
a former CMO. Because marketers are great at understanding how
to drive growth, and I don't know why boards aren't
jumping at this faster than we expected them to. Boards
are still slow to put marketers on boards.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Two observations there. One is certainly maybe CpG is another
industry where you could see cmos of ventury rise up
to the rank because they're running a P and L
very different the way CpG company is being run, and
they get to rise up to CEO. Yeah, into our
product goods, right or fast moving consumer.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Goods, consumer products CpG.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I would be hard pressed to see a CMO become
the CEO in financial services or at a technology company
or frankly even a retailer, right, because that's so driven
by the merchants. I think the second observation is Taco
Bell must be this incredible reading ground of talent. And
I'll go on record that I think the goat of
(07:33):
cmos that we're at Talko Bell is you, miss Marrissa Polpe, and.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
My partner is not biased at all, but thank you.
I appreciate it all.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Not at all. That's the technical observation, but I do
feel that, you know, the whole idea of cmos becoming CEOs,
we need to see more of that. And I think
it's just showcasing the talent. If they understand business, they
understand how to drive growth, I'm just and how to
really generate alpha, and I think that's ultimately what we're
talking about. It's a great accomplishment. Make sure I reload
(08:01):
my Starbucks card and help burn it out.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, you know, I give credit to our friends like
Jenny Rooney at Adweek and people behind Adweek who are
pointing this out in their editorial coverage and really taking
a moment to celebrate when another CMO becomes a CEO.
It occurs to me that I would like to be
past the point, much like when we celebrate a woman
(08:25):
being in the CEO landscape of the Fortune five hundred,
because there's still too few of us, and it will
be nice when it's a postmodern thing, meaning it's just
not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Of course, well in person of color. But again that's
a whole other post.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Isn't it related that there's still just a bias in
corporate America? And maybe some of the bias is fair.
I mean, traditionally there have been certain skill sets and
certain archetypes that have lent themselves to being CEOs. But
the world of business has changed, and I'd argue so
should the landscape of who makes for a great leader
at the top.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I think you just gave me a spark of an idea.
I think for future guests, we're going to get someone
from one of the executive search firms and we are
going to have them be our guest so that we
could ask them directly about some of the research that's
out there, because certainly a lot of the search firms
that are responsible for putting people into these roles in
the first place, you know, they continue to go back
(09:22):
to the same kind of group of folks, usually men,
and it's usually the CEOs and CFOs that are going
to continue to get those types of roles, either in
the C suite or on board love it. So I
think that should definitely be a future.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Guests All right, deal, well, when we come back, let's
get to our hot topic of this episode, and to
tee it up, tell everyone where you are right now.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
I am right now in the south of Spain, in
the beautiful city of mada Beja.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So we're going to talk a little bit about taking breaks,
burnout out, having arrest and do we do this the
right way in the United States or maybe other people
do this a little better than we do. When we
come back.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And we're back for this episode's hot topic, and it
really has to do with are we doing this right?
And you know, when we say doing this, I think
it's really about not just vacation but do we know
how to take a break. And it is the month
of August. And you know, I am border raised New Yorker,
(10:36):
so I have that New York work ethic. But I'm
also very proud Latino, as I like to say, I'm
a two hundred percenter one hundred percent American and one
hundred percent Dominican. But the interesting thing is, you know,
my roots are Spanish and Portuguese, and I decided to
kind of take some time off with the fam to
come to South of Spain and really just get off
(10:58):
the grid. I just feel that they do it right
in Europe Wressela like I mean, certainly in a lot
of places around the world, but specifically, you know, kind
of in Spain. I mean, the whole month of August,
people take off. You go to Madrid and we were
walking around looking for some restaurants and you'd see like
signs in the window like oh, we're gone for the
month of August, come back in September. And so I
just feel that taking a break, finding a way to recharge,
(11:20):
be with your family, just really find a way not
to have the burnout of corporate rat race. It's so difficult,
and I'm just so curious, like how do you think
about it? Like do you think people can really even
take that time? I mean it's August. You know, hopefully
some people are taking vacation, but I know a lot
of folks can't.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
This is one of those things where I believe the
tone really has to be set from the top, because
people look both for the literal examples and the maybe
more subtle cues about what's accepted. Because in spite of
the idea that people are quite quitting and all that stuff,
(12:01):
in American work life and maybe in work in general
around the globe, people care and they want to do well,
and were wires human beings to want to feel successful
and to make others proud of us. And if there's
a signal that it is considered slacking inappropriate, a lack
of commitment to take time off, it becomes a very
(12:24):
big source of stress and guilt. And if I may,
I connect this back to my early days running Executive Moms,
because I think there is a uniqueness that women feel,
particularly when they become moms in general, about navigating those choices.
I used to call it the daily calculus of decision making.
(12:46):
And it doesn't mean and I actually want men to
care about this as much as women do. But there
is a different wiring of guilt when you're trying to
navigate those choices between your kids pulling on you in
a certain way and work, and we want to do
well with all of it. So I think that same
feeling can come into play about taking vacation. And to
(13:06):
your point, it's not the way it is in the
rest of the world. It's just not.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
We're data junkie. So here's some data for you. Certainly
a lot of folks and other people in Europe take
you know, kind of the month of August off, but
specifically France and Germany they actually have thirty days of
paid vacation annually, not including public holidays, and in places
like Brazil they actually have also thirty days of paid vacation.
You know, place like Sweden and Norway they have an
(13:33):
twenty five to thirty days. And it turns out that
the US, because we always like to be number one,
we are the leader in taking the least amount of vacation,
we are the worst when it comes to taking a break.
And on average, Americans took eleven days off and only
half of Americans plan to use all of their allocated
(13:55):
vacation time. So there must be something in the water
where it's like, Okay, you have a vacation time, but
you really don't have it because you either feel pressure,
you can't get away, you're worried about losing your job,
or you're worried about what your boss is going to say.
If there's something really just messed up that you cannot
take the time that is allotted to you. And again,
(14:15):
that is not a lot of time to begin with.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Again, this is very much psychological wiring and culture. So
I think for a long time it's been considered a
badge of honor to tell everyone, Oh, I haven't taken
vacation in two years. You sort of martyr yourself to it,
and it is not a coincidence. At the same time,
there are many reports suggesting there's record burnout among executives
(14:42):
in the United States. So vacations exist for a reason.
And listen, you know, my feeling is someone who's managed
people for a long time, I felt this way about
just someone who needed to navigate their daily schedule. It
definitely extends to vacations. Here's my feeling. I ever found
myself wondering where someone on my team was that suggested
(15:06):
a bigger problem that had nothing to do with them
literally needing to be in my face around.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
But do you think that would be a reflection on
you as the manager or on the talent you know themselves.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
No, I think it is about someone in this day
and age where work has so many different expressions in
terms of in office, out of office, remote and when
we've touched that controversy and that topic. So I'm not
trying to bring back return to office into this conversation
per se, only that when someone is accountable, you're not
(15:39):
thinking about, oh, I wonder where that persons. You just
trust them and trust they're doing their job. And similarly,
I want to be the kind of manager that makes
my people feel good about them taking vacations because it
is necessary, And in turn, I think what we managers
or leaders want is accountability. The other way that, of course,
(16:00):
when someone's out it puts stress maybe on other people
and resources, and that you're just trying to be responsible
to the work and making sure things don't completely fall
apart when you're gone. To me, that's the real implicit
contract that we have at work. But the idea that
the way to solve it is just to never take
vacation and suffer. Feels really wrong and definitely not European.
(16:23):
To your point about what life in Spain or the
rest of Europe is like in the month of August.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think there are corporate cultures. I'm not talking out
at school here. I mean these are companies that are
very known for this. I mean Netflix, Salesforce, they have
unlimited vacation policies, but no one ever takes them because
you understand that you're not supposed to do those things.
You're not supposed to take unlimited vacation right because you'll
be out of a job. So then you can be
(16:51):
you know, taking them limitedfication.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, and there's some cynicism about unlimited PTO is really
just a way to not have to pay people out
and they leave and so forth.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So absolutely, my point was more it really is about
the company culture.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, you could be.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
The most incredible manager, and again you have people that
have flocked you from you know, job to job wherever
you've been in a leadership role or so you have
people that have followed you. I think it's part of
the reason that you have been such a great mentor
you know talent. It's because you are a great leader
and you nurture and you are empathetic, and you would
give people that kind of flexibility if they want to
(17:27):
takeifaication time or personal time whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Wait, I'm getting good compliments from you, Like you couldn't
go to Spain more often? This is really like this
is working for me.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
It's all the harmony that it's all the good food.
That's a whole other pot as well. The food here
is amazing and healthy, and the portions that are smaller,
but again different pods. Yes, but you could be an
amazing manager, but the corporate culture might still be toxic, right,
the corporate culture might not doone that. And so we've
alls been in companies where there's like this oasis of
(17:58):
a group that they have a great leader and everyone
flocks to that group, but the rest of the company
is just toxic or they're just miserable, or it's the fiefdoms.
And so I just feel like when you're a gen Z,
you know, kind of coming up through the ranks, like
you're just like, what is this bullshit? Like I don't
want to be a part of that, Like I don't
want to be in that culture. And that's why I
(18:20):
do feel that this whole everyone's saying come back to work,
you know, remote work doesn't really work anymore when it
did perfectly well. I feel like it's a little bit
of what kind of culture are you in? And does
the company really give a shit about you? And I
think those are questions that we all need to ask
because at the end of the day, you got one shot.
This is your life, this is how you design your life,
(18:42):
and you really need to make the most of this time.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Okay, this is going to sound like a total non sequitor,
but stay with me on this for a second. Okay, Okay,
Way back when when I was in the advertising side,
I worked on the Clareal like herbal Escences shampoo business,
remember that famous like it's a totally organic experience. I've
totally dated myself. But anyway, I had this idea and
(19:06):
they never it never got bought. But I had this
idea that something about the idea that your best inspiration
comes in the shower, and that like you could we
could have some fun with like then the shampoos made
it even better. Why is that it's actually true? Because
when you're in the shower, you're actually everything just sort
(19:27):
of stops and you're taking a break. Your mind wanders
and sometimes our best thoughts, right don't we always say
our best thoughts come in the shower. To me, shower
is a micro example of what we're talking about and
why there's actually value in getting off the treadmill of
work in terms of the work quality, because in the
(19:51):
fields that we're in in particular, you need to actually
allow your mind to wander a little bit. You need
to be out in the world to get inspired and
experience things and see other things. And that comes back
often in Spain. So does it mean we can go
on truly unlimited vacations in the world to work. No,
(20:12):
But does a siesta a vacation make a whole lot
of sense in terms of our energy levels but also
our inspiration. I think it does, all right.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So not to get all nerdy and wonky. So it
is true because warm water is actually a trigger for
the release of dopamine, and that as a neurotransmitter, the dopamine,
you know, increasing your dopamine levels actually leads to heightened creativity.
(20:43):
So it is a true thing.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Being nerdy with you, Yes, it.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Is a true thing. If you're in the you know shower,
I take a nice, nice worm shower. It is actually
a place for creativity, but it actually is tied to
you being in this relaxed state with your mind wandering,
where you are able to change your envirol and actually
have the ability for releasing. Don't mean where you are
going to have heightened creativity. I just feel like that
(21:09):
is something which is wheally the takeaway, and you need
that for business? What does every single business want they
want more creativity in an AI era? What are you
going to need humans being more creative? And so if
you do not give the space where we could recharge,
where we could think, where we could actually inspire ourselves
so that we can actually be more creative at work,
you're not going to be able to be productive. And
(21:30):
I just feel like this is something where again, giving
this message to the c suite, to the CEO, the CFO,
you know, whoever is the hard ass inside of the
company that needs to hear this message. Share them this pod.
Hopefully they could take, you know, a nugget or two,
but you know, I feel like everyone needs to get
that message.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
See, I think you just validated that that would have
been a good campaign idea that I came up with.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I'm just saying, yes, we're coming full circle your advertising genius,
and yes that would have been awesome. So, however's listening now?
I could do it on social Yeah, run with it.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I mean, I just gave you who's ever marketing any
product that exists in the shower? There's a free idea
for you, Stephen. Like last thought on this, why do
the Europeans and other cultures have this wired into their
(22:27):
behaviors so much differently than we do here? Is it
possible we'll ever be more like the Europeans in that
one regard?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I do think that it's kind of courses for courses,
right in the sense that we live in the ultimate
capitalist society and the measure of success is going to
be money or fame or all these vapid things. And
I just feel that the center of gravity for some
(22:57):
of these countries, it really is not the pursuit of
capitalism per se. It's really about the pursuit of relationships.
And when you think about the family unit, when you
think about just the concept, I mean, you know, Latino
families are famous for this. I told my mom, you know,
when my parents were still alive that I was going
to college in Boston, and she basically broke down in
(23:20):
tears because I was going to be away away from her,
away from family. And you know, maybe other families in
the US they're like, oh, go away, we want the
kids out of the house. It's just not the case.
And so in a lot of Latin American countries and
a lot of European countries, kids actually stay at home
through college. Like that is a foreign concept to us
in America. But like, you don't move away, you know,
(23:43):
across the country when you go to college. You actually stay,
you know, living at home in your hometown. It's just
a very different way of life, very different system of
you know, kind of capitalism. And I just feel that
there are different priorities and values. I'm not saying that
one is better than the other, but I know the
one that I prefer. And if there's a way to
kind of have some type of balance where you could
(24:04):
certainly be successful, you know, have capitalistic success, business success,
professional success, but certainly balance it with personal and family success,
I think that has to be you know, the win,
you know, finding your achy guy and finding way to
balance those things.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well, we took a little vacation this episode from having
a guest and thereby took a little vacation from playing
cooler cringe. But maybe our one cooler cringe question for
each other. I think now everyone knows how we're going
to answer it, So cooler cringe working really hard but
also taking vacation, should we say it at the same time?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Cool? Way cool? I'm a big believer work hard, play harder.
So if there's a way that you could find a time,
take a break, if you're listening, whatever it is, the
work will be there, But get that time to be
with your family, with your kids, with a loved one,
with your parent, with your parents are alive, tell them me,
love them, call them. I wish I could do that
every day. Oh same, But the truth is, you know
(25:00):
you get one shot. This is your life. You need
to design it and part of it is taking a break.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Well, on that note, it's now time for what's on
your minds Steven want to read the question?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yes, so this week it comes from Mark. How do
you know when a brand needs a refresh or a
complete rebrand and what are the first steps to take
in that process? That feels like a really loaded question mark.
I mean just a simple quick refresh or a complete rebrand.
I mean it feels like opposite ends of the spectrum.
But I have to imagine this is something that you
(25:35):
definitely have tackle with, Marisa. I know I have. On
the B to B side.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
I love this one.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I think it's very important and part of the credibility
of marketers to ensure that when you're looking at this
anew that it's not about your own ego or desire
to put your own fingerprints on something. It's really born
out of a deep and thoughtful understanding of where a
brand is and what isn't isn't working, And then it
(26:02):
comes down to saying doesn't need a revolution or does
it need an evolution, and oftentimes an evolution can really work.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
That's deep.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well, it's actually I didn't mean it so much to
be deep as I meant it to be practical, because
the implications for revolution are actually quite expensive. We brought
up Taco bell a couple of times on this episode.
I will say that when I was chief marketing officer
of Taco Bell, I did initiate changing the logo of
(26:33):
that brand, and it was the first time in twenty
five years. I did not take that lightly though, because
it's expensive to change out a logo.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
It's as expensive, but it's got to be so hard
politically internally, all the stakeholders have got to convince.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Right consumers by the way often I mean, think of
all the logos that have been redone. Consumers generally turn
on you more quickly than they celebrate you. So even
in that sense, there's some risk to it. But it
really depends what you mean. Mark with this question of
brand need to refresh or complete, rebrand like, it might
be because the mark of the brand itself needs reinventing,
(27:13):
a kind of interpret it a bit literally that way,
But it also is just that constant stewardship that we
do of how to keep a brand feeling fresh. It
may not be redoing how the brand shows up, redoing
the whole visual identity of it, redoing all of its
marketing communications. It might just be this is more the
(27:34):
evolution note. It might just be about updating its wardrobe
a little bit. If we think of brands as people,
you know, how do you just make it walk with
a little bit of different confidence or a different tone.
And sometimes the real art of what we do is
a little bit more subtle. I don't have a simple
answer in terms of how do you know the answer
is that you have to do the work to be
(27:55):
honest about assessing how much of the brand's presence is
the problem and how much is everything else factoring into that,
and then revolution versus evolution. It's a really important distinction.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
It's a powerful insight. I also think that a rebrand
is not a logo, like I feel like it's such
a misperception. And obviously you've done it on the B
C side. I've done it more on the B to
B side. I got to be the chief marketing communications
also at a company called Comcast. There's an AI behavioral
(28:31):
analystic company, and I got there and it wasn't to
your point, taking lightly, but we did a complete rebrand
which was meant to be more evolution, but it had
to serve the business, and I feel like we were
going in a different direction. This was very early, you know,
kind of days where data and marketing was kind of
(28:52):
start to talk about AI, but no one really knew
anything about AI. We had a lot of credibility because
of just you know, the history of the company. The
found are all machine learning PhDs like we actually were
doing AI and we needed this gravitas to be a
part of it. So we did this rebrand, but it
was it was hard to convince folks internally and then
(29:12):
how do you position that externally? And again you need
to have the budget for it, You have to convince
the CFO. You have to really understand what are going
to be the business outcomes and why are you doing it?
And sometimes you do it to kind of make the
company I relevant, That's right. The company was not in
the conversation, was not in the zeit case at the time,
and just that refresh just brought in all this new
(29:33):
interests and buzz and it really kind of tied with
a new product suite that we're really trying to kind
of introduce to the marketplace. So there was a business
reason to do it. But again, the brand is the business.
The business is the brand, And I feel like you
really need to think about what you just said, which
is evolution versus revolution.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Look, I love that too, And just to close on
the question, if you start with that clear eyed view,
you're more likely to make good decisions if you recognize
that the knee jerk shouldn't be Oh, I've got to
change it up. And if you start from a more
conservative posture and then you come to the conclusion that no,
(30:11):
actually the business imperative is this brand needs a revolution,
then you know that's the right path. Well, on that note,
that's it for now. Thank you so much for joining us.
We hope you like the banter between Steven and me today,
and if you like what you're hearing from us in
every episode and have it already, please subscribe. Also, if
(30:33):
you want us to answer one of your questions, like
we just did with Marx, tell us what's on your
mind by emailing us at Ideas at branddshnew dot com, look.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
For us across all social LinkedIn threads, you name it. Honestly,
we really really want you to take some time think
about yourself, take the break right after labor Day. It's
going to come hot and heavy. All the conference circuit.
It's going to be very, very busy. We want you
to be refreshed and we will see you next time
on Brand New
Speaker 1 (31:10):
M
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