July 30, 2024 • 46 mins
The Olympic Games are more than the ultimate in sports; they are the ultimate execution of an event involving billions of dollars in stakes (invested and potentially made) for brands, countries, athletes and more. In this episode, Steven and Marisa invite sports legend Kathy Carter, most recently CEO of the LA2028 Games, to share a unique insider’s perspective on the business of the Olympics. What does it take, really? Which brand sponsors should we be watching “compete” this time? What’s ahead for when the summer games return to the U.S.? And… were those Opening Ceremonies in Paris brilliant… or bananas?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
I and thanks for joining us on brand New from
the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marisa Baalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm Stephen Wolf bet Ada.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Oh see, you're brushing up your French again. First we
were doing that when we were in Can together, but
now I know why you're doing it because we are
talking the Olympics in a Paris, France happening now. And
it's been interesting, hasn't it. How we've been toggling a
little bit between sports and politics the past few weeks.
Arguably politics feels like a sport. Maybe sports can be
(00:41):
political in a certain way, hopefully not always.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Business is sport, the politics a sport, you know, vice versa.
It's all really interesting, and it's very timely because it's been
the summer NonStop of sports and certainly very political as well.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
It's all culture. That's the connective tissue, isn't it as
we think about it and what it all means. And
we've got a pretty cool interview coming up with a
friend of mine that I was excited to pull in
and introduce her. You and we recorded a few days
ago with Kathy Carter, who's been just a titan in
the world and the business of sports.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
She was awesome. She's a friend of yours. I didn't
know her, but I'm a huge fan now. Just everything
that she's done in soccer is amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
In soccer and bringing the LA twenty twenty eight games
to the state of readiness as up until recently the
CEO and the sort of phase one, and she'll talk
about So who better to give us a perspective on
the Olympics and someone who has been helming the very
next one to come from the summer game standpoint and
back to the US.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
You said the key word, you said culture And Marisa,
what did we just see in Paris? Was that the
best or the worst of French culture on display?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So we have to put this in a little bit
of time in context because we talked to Kathy a
few days ago. You'll hear that next. But then now
we're talking post watching the opening ceremony. Is I loved it?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Okay? I was not as much in level fit as
you are.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Very polarized reactions that we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I mean, I think a lot of people are just
like WTF, Like what am I watching?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, it was a WTF but in a uniquely French way.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Why is there a blue Papa smurf in front of
like a bouquet, a banqulet. I mean, it was just
it was really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
How about when you spend billions of dollars, maybe not
billions on just the opening ceremony, the whole execution of
the Olympics is around a ten billion dollar event, and
then it's pouring rain during the whole thing. I mean
they did not catch a weather break on that.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, I think I catch a break about that. But
I'm glad you brought out the business side of it
because it's really hard. I mean, we talk all the time.
We get asked about what is the return on investment.
I mean think about, you know, your investment in the Olympics,
and what is the return on investment for that? I
mean all of the Olympics, whether it's you know, Summer Olympics,
Winter Olympics, they've all over an over budget. It's not
(03:01):
like you could move the date right, like it's a
set time every four years, and so this was supposed
to be the cheaper, more cost efficient in the year
of Efficiency model Olympics, but they've also run over budget.
So I don't know, like, do you feel like was
it worth the investment? Is this a good thing for
the city of Paris.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Well, we're going to get Kathy's perspective on that in
a minute. In general about the Olympics, not necessarily just
this one. That's funny. I've read some articles, so it
might be interesting what pr machine is working where on
the media. I read some articles that this came in
conservatively on the budget, so who knows exactly where the
truth lies in that. But you're right, I mean, there's
(03:41):
no weather insurance when you're doing the opening ceremonies of
the Olympic Games. I think it's an unbelievable showcase for
a city and for national pride. How do you quantify that?
Obviously a little hard to say, And for everyone who
thought it was wacky, it was wacky, but in this
uniquely French way. And what I thought was cool was
(04:03):
it integrated all these different parts of call it French
culture and how it's impacted the world globally. So it
wasn't actually just about sports, which was an interesting reframing
of the brand of the Olympics if you think about it,
and I heard some commentators talking about that too, that
it was in a way an attempt to modernize it
a little now successful or not, we obviously have a
(04:24):
little bit of a difference of opinion. But that in
and of itself is interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Sure, But when you think about the brands that are
being you know, kind of displayed on TV. You know,
they had Coca Cola, I had Lily, they had Visa,
and then they're talking about a monogator, Like, what what
is happening? I mean, I'm there with my young kids.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, that might have gone far.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I don't know if that was on brand.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
But oh, did you have to explain manasatois to your
kids again?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I think they were kind of frankly that they were bored.
You know, they were watching it and they were bored.
They were like, it's so long, It's so slow long.
But they were very interested in you know what they
were calling the ninja that was running across the rooftops,
the French ninja.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
The Phantom of the Opera meets Lames meets Parkour.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, I mean again, all the memes. And this is
where you just got to love the Internet. I mean,
it has so much bad, but you know this is
where it signs. Where you see all the memes. There's
a very popular video game called Assassin's Creed and the
main protagonists in the video game looked like the French Ninja.
So there you go. But you know, from a brand perspective,
I don't know if if that juice is worth a squeeze.
(05:34):
But again, very interesting to see kind of everyone try
to convene. And again, I think folks are so hungry
to kind of, you know, have that you know, water
cooler moment where everyone's talking about something, and you know,
they are very few events that kind of bring everyone
together to talk about hopefully something positive or maybe it's negative.
If all news is good news.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Okay, So that's an interesting question with regards to media
and something we talk off and about. Did you watch
it live on NBC last night with the kids?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I did not watch it live, and it was interesting
because I've actually cut the cord. You know, we used
to have cable. We don't anymore. We use YouTube TV,
which is by the way, just awesome. Again, no paid advertisement,
no ties, It's just a great product in the great service.
And we actually went on to Peacock to actually see
if we could watch it, and they were holding it
(06:25):
so that it would air at seven thirty pm Pacific time,
and it's like, this thing's happened already seven eight hours ago,
Like why wouldn't you show it live? So we were
actually able to go see it, you know, kind of
it was already recorded on YouTube TV.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You're right, they rebroadcast it. We got home and we
decided to watch it live. As a misnomer, it was
actually six hours earlier, but sort of in its regularly
broadcast way as a rebroadcast at seven thirty on the
East Coast, inclusive of the commercials. But to me, that
was part of what I wanted to see. But you know,
(06:59):
a lot of people are saying, in addition to perhaps
the weird culture aspect of how the opening ceremonies transpired,
that this is the first TikTok Olympics, because so much
of the content, especially perhaps with younger audiences, isn't going
to be consumed in the traditional broadcast way. It's going
to be in the storytelling of the individual athletes, the
(07:21):
highlight moments, and it's all kind of turning into digestible.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yance doing her song for the Team USA, right, right,
But it's all on.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Social and it's just it's all on social.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I find it's so hard with these kind of very
anachronistic business models, you know, this attempt to kind of
maintain the old guard to hold that old structure in place,
and it's just not keeping up with where the consumer is.
And we're frankly, I think Brandon kleins are. I mean,
I just find it shocking that you would not give
audiences what they want. And I understand that there's these
(07:53):
old economics and business models that you need to kind of,
you know, prop up, but there's got to be innovation
here because again and gen Z and consumers, they're going
to social and there's a reason why, because that's where
they're finding things live in the moment.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
But in fairness to NBC Universal, who owns some media
rights for this, is they've been giving Tiktop, Snack YouTube
Meta front center access to the competition. So the fact
that they're playing in the sandbox as opposed to trying
to just put a guardrail around all the content to
be precious about it, I do think suggests a recognition
(08:29):
that the way we consume, you know, a major event
like this has changed. So you got to give them
a little credit for that.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
No, I mean again, like I think everyone has now
realized that they need to play with social and you
have to have all those aspects. I mean, the other
big thing that's been happening is all of the drama
that's going on with Warner Brothers Discovery and losing the
NBA rights and now they're suing the NBA, right, I
mean that's insane, Like you actually have adia, like your
media partner is actually suing the league and it's because
(08:56):
they lost out to the streaming rights which are now
going to Amazon on right, And so it's just, you know,
again it's understanding where is the puck going? Where is
the consumer? And I think Rashad Tobakawala, who you know,
I used to work with at Poopac's, who was just
oh he's wonderful, incredible visionary. If you don't follow him
or read his sub stact, please sign up for what
Rashad writes. But he has a great you know saying,
(09:19):
which I think is really profound, is you cannot put
the future in the containers of the past. And I
think that so many folks continually try to do that,
and so we'll see what happens. But you know, definitely,
I think having someone like Kathy to come on to
the pod this episode. It's so timely and all of
our expertise and whatever's happening in Paris. I cannot wait
(09:39):
for the Olympics to come to LA where I'm now
living our home, and it's going to be awesome to
see it here in the States in four years.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Well, when we come back, let's talk about the business
and the brands involved in the Olympic Games. Well, we
are back and we have joining us the fabulous Kathy Carter,
who not only a friend, but she is here because
she is a thirty year veteran and dynamo in the
(10:07):
world of sports. She has been a founding member of
Major League Soccer, most recently housed this the CEO of
the LA twenty eight Olympic and Paralympic Games. So she
has a very unique lens on this summer's Olympic Games
happening now in Paris, and specifically the business behind them.
Welcome Kathy, Thanks for joining us for this.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Thank you. I really appreciate the invitation to be on.
I'm so excited to talk to you guys today.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
This is gonna be fun.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Welcome Kathy, and it's really great. And again as a
lifelong soccer fan. Thank you for all of your service
and all that you've done for Major League soccer in
the United States. It's a real treat to meet you.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Wait, I'm sorry, Stephen, do you like soccer?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I mean, you know, it's football. But that's another episode
to talk about the Olympics, Kathy, let's do that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Well, and by the way, not for nothing, but obviously
soccer is a big part of the Olympic Games as well,
so we will cover off a little bit of the
beautiful game because obviously it's never too far from any
conversation that I have, and it fortunately it weaves pretty
nicely into the conversation around the Olympics, so we can
pull it all together.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
That makes my heart happy. Yeah, but seriously, we're at
the cusp of just this incredible Olympics that's going to
be happening in Paris, France, and in general, it's one
of the ultimate you know, brand and sponsorship, you know,
business opportunities that exist on the planet, especially at a
point where just live sports is really you know, just
kind of the pillar that's keeping up the media business.
You know, I'd love to get a little insider perspective
(11:35):
in terms of what are the best things and you know,
kind of the things that might not be so great
that you see and you kind of in the world
of the Olympics, but specifically how brands and businesses are
able to participate in the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Let's just set some context as a starting point when
we talk about the Olympic Games, let alone the Paralympic Games,
which I think is important that we actually talk about
the Paralympics as well. You know, you're talking about the
law urgest peacetime gathering on the planet, and that sort
of is hard to sort of fathom, but you're talking
about upwards of fourteen five hundred athletes for the Olympic
(12:09):
Games and about six thousand for the Paralympic Games. And
it's actually the like I said, the largest event. The Paralympics,
which happens then just about ten days after the end
of the Olympics, is the third largest event on the planet.
So just the size and scale of what is required
to put an event of that magnitude on actually requires
a very different type of relationship with companies because not
(12:34):
only are companies looking at it as how do I
actually use this from a cultural from a brand, from
a relevance perspective, but it's also perhaps the single greatest
way to showcase what your organization actually is all about. So,
whether that be integration in ways that we probably don't
see at this size or scale, that I think is
really quite remarkable, and we can talk a little bit
(12:56):
about how that's going to come to life, not just
in Paris but also as you start to look out
to la as well. But it's a really really complicated,
complex ecosystem just by the size and scale of what
actually is happening.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I just have to ask, because you said, you know
the largest and the third largest with the Paralympic Games,
what is the second? Is it what I think it is?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Well, I'll let you answer that question, because I bet
you know what it is, and that's even getting larger.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Is it the workup?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yes, it is. It will be the FIFA World Cup.
I haven't seen the numbers recently, but the FIFA Women's
World Cup will soon I think be rivaling what we
see with some of these other events as well. So
it's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Though so from the perspective of someone who has literally
helmed the building of an Olympic games, and it happens
years in advance, as you can attest, because we're still
years out from LA twenty twenty eight and you'd been
working on this for years before this. What does it
take to mount something? And I know that's such a
broad question that it gives you a lot of different
(13:55):
ways to answer it. But through the lens of business
and brands and sponsors and gov, I what surprised you?
I remember sitting down and talking to you about it
and just your eyes being so wide of even the
surprise to you of all the pieces you had to
put together. How can you just give our listeners a
taste of what is really involved.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, just to make it clear, I left the Olympics,
so I spent five years working on it and the
bid and the announcement of the bid was a couple
of years before I joined. And then there's still four
more years to go, and so by the time LA
host the games, it will be over a decade that
the organization has been planning and the city has been
(14:36):
planning for the games to come together. It's really interesting
because you know, why does it take so long? And
really and let's take a look at what we're seeing
right now in Paris, and Paris started now at the
same time LA did, and that was unprecedented that they
announced both twenty four and twenty eight at the same time,
and so LA actually had an extended period of time
(14:57):
to plan. But in the case of Paris, we'll see
that they will do a very non traditional opening ceremony
that will happen actually on the River Senn. They also
have been and are looking to utilize the Olympics as
sort of the moment that they have finalized just to
a large degree, a cleanup of the River Senn, and
they will actually host some of the swimming events with
(15:19):
most notably the swimming portion of the triathlon and then
the marathon swim in actually the river.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The Parisians have been pretty riled up about that, right,
threatening to protest in a not very sanitary way.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, and I think it's more that they've been promised
this for so long and this is a huge bet
by the government in the case of France, in the
city of Paris, to really spend a lot of time
in a very long period of time, hopefully culminating with
something that will actually after the Olympics are over, leave
the city better than what they had before the Olympics
(15:52):
were there, and if the citizens of Paris now can
enjoy the river in a way that perhaps wasn't available
to them prior to, that's a real benefit to the community.
And I think that's a We're hopeful and you know,
knock on wood, that that all goes well, and it's
still a game time decision, so to speak, as to
whether or not the swimming events will be able to
and I think that they will pull it off, and
(16:14):
then how that actual will benefit the community. Now. In
the case of LA you're looking at the city started
well before the games about using some of this to
actually start to be a catalyst for how quickly they
could move forward with public transportation and what could they
do to actually really begin to improve the lives of
the citizens of Los Angeles as we know, which is
(16:36):
a very car forward mentality. And while cars will never
be any you have fair point, it's a real understatement,
but there's a lot of a lot of construction that's
been going on to build railways. And I think there's
two parts of that when you think about Los Angeles
and sort of how it potentially comes together in twenty
twenty eight. One is hopefully that there is an overall
(16:58):
rail system and bus system that the community starts to
use more frequently. But then number two, if in fact
the games can actually be a catalyst for people utilizing
those resources, maybe people start to get used to taking
the metro to events, to museums, to things where it
takes one more car off the road, which actually has
a knock on effect to the quality of life for
(17:21):
the citizens of LA. So those are types of things,
and I think that that just takes years and years
of planning when it comes to actually putting the games on.
What was so remarkable is to me was how important
the funding, at least in the United States, the way
we look at it is it's got to be privately financed,
So how important companies are, How the government is still
(17:42):
a big piece of.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Helping it privately financed, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Through ticket sales, hospitality, licensing, sponsorship, yeah, television revenues. So
and how in fact that comes together. So the pressure
for LA in the very beginning was how do you
get yourself ready, how do you start to really build
the momentum of the commercial opportunity and then move into
this last phase which is very much where and quite
(18:09):
frankly why I decided it was time to sort of
turn the baton to really move in an operational capacity,
just my background being much more in sales and marketing
and what we're talking about today. Then it's really about
making sure that you get the athletes to the stadium
on time. And that's a really, really technical requirement that
is really significant.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I mean, this is incredible operational infrastructure at a
scale that I don't think people really understand. But I
love what you're talking about, which is the impact of
the Olympics is going to be felt in the city
by the community for obviously decades to come. There is
a part of urban planning that I don't think people appreciate.
I mean, I'm so curious what the impact in la
(18:51):
because you know, they've been working on LAX for years now.
You know, I've been here for a minute. But it's
going to be really interesting to see I think the
positive improvements in the city. But I also think, you know,
just given your experience in marketing, I think one of
the things that just as a fan, you know, so
when that even as a casual fan, because it's coming
every four years, people always want the human interest stories
(19:13):
following the athletes. I mean, I think part of the
US squad at the Olympics this year, you have, you know,
everyone from Lebron James too, you know, Simone Biles, Like,
how do you really think about the human element and
you know these narratives and do you feel that that
is hard to you know, kind of either find or
connect with given the state of fragmented media that we're
(19:34):
in today.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah. No, I mean, I think that's one of the
great challenges that NBC faces is how to make sure
that they and I think that they've learned a lot
through the years and obviously I don't think anybody's better
at telling some of the human interest stories and really
tugging at the heartstrings, which I actually think is really
quite remarkable. And you know, we all remember and I
(19:54):
think P and G and the folks there probably are
the leaders in the clubhouse, if you will, at Thank.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You Mom campaign is truly just epic.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, I think it's probably one of the best campaigns
we've ever seen. And I think that that sort of
set a bar then for marketers, just as an example
about how to use this in ways because it is
every four years, it is such a diverse swath of
athletes from as you mentioned, Lebron James and Simone Biles
to archers that we may not have ever seen or
(20:25):
may not know about that truly are your next door neighbors,
and so really telling these collective stories. And I think
that's where P ANDNG truly landed the proverbial plane on
that campaign, and they continue to do so. We're seeing
more and more brands that truly do lean into that
to showcase what's different and actually showcase the cultural aspect
(20:45):
and maybe not as much about the avidity of sport,
but rather the avidity of the journey to get there.
And I think that's a pretty interesting way that they've
gone about it, and it's worked really really well for them.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
As a corollary to that, do you ever find yourself
having to either justify I mean again, I'll put in
my finance at for a second, like how do you
justify the ROI on that right? Like, oh my gosh,
like this huge investment, you know, whether it's as an
official Olympic sponsor, you know, how do you really you
make the business case for spending so much money to
(21:19):
really see that return on investment? Is that a hard
case to make do you think yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I mean it kind of depends. Let's go all the
way back to where I said integration is such an
important part. So in Paris, the technical infrastructure that is
required to deliver the games, think, the technology and the
integration of that technology is pretty significant. The company that
is delivering that today is Atos, who is both an IOC,
a global partner of the Olympic Games, but also a
(21:46):
really fundamental delivery partner that will transition after Paris. It
will transition to Deloitte. And Deloitte has started working and
they started working with LA about nine months ago to
start working on that technological integration required to do everything
from accreditation to the real time scoring and statistics which Omega,
(22:10):
another global partner of the Olympic Games delivers. So there
truly is and so in some cases it makes sense
because there's an economic back and forth between the marketing
stories that I can that a company like Omega or
that Deloitte can tell, and actually how much they're paying
to become an official partner. And so there is a
(22:31):
line in those because it is so significant and it's
public knowledge. But the LA twenty eight budget is just
over it's about six and a half billion dollars to
put on the games. Well, a lot of that is
technological integration and a variety of other areas where companies
actually can integrate into that in a way. But in
order to tell the story, they have to be a partner.
(22:53):
So justification in a lot of ways, Yes, very difficult,
but that's all a part of really learning and getting
out to understand Dan, both the delivery and the potential
to tell really great stories.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I want to build on Stephen's question because this is
something we talk a lot about. I mean, it's such
an interesting marketing moment at a time where things have
become so fragmented that I think we do want to
have a bit of that ad Bowl Super Bowl moment
with the Olympics than we can, where you see the
best work and you see the most It lends itself
(23:25):
to that kind of storytelling you were talking about, heartwarming
motivational doesn't have to literally involve athletes, but often times
it draws on that or uses them as a point
of storytelling. And yet there's all this pressure to kind
of drive everything sort of down, and you know, immediat
ROI performance marketing. So the business case for being an
Olympic sponsor is sort of an interesting one because it
(23:48):
is expensive and were you finding that as you were
lining up the deals for LA twenty twenty eight that
you had to work maybe harder than you thought, or
was there more helped me if it was a market
or that you're dealing with, build the right case to
go back to their companies and say it's a big
price tag, here's why it's worth it.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes, without question, I'd say a handful of things. Number
one is what we found, and I think what you
find at the IOC as they're selling the global deals.
It really becomes a board level decision, a CEO level,
and a board sort of has to be a part
of that as well because of the because there's also
(24:28):
there's a risk and opportunity, but the opportunity is really generational,
is the way I would just that I often described it.
And there is nothing at the scale and certainly when
we think about LA twenty eight, there's nothing that we
will ever see, probably in our lifetime as marketers that
will be as significant as the LA twenty eight games themselves,
(24:52):
just size, scale, integration, opportunity. LA is a market where
Hollywood meets sport meets you know, new distribution platforms, all
of it. It will be this really intriguing moment in
time that and that was part of what we went
out and talked to folks about. But to be fair,
we also had to get really really diligent about how
(25:13):
to justify the cost. And in some cases that was
because part of that was about integration into the delivery
of the games. Part of that was because it's you know,
if it's a domestic company, it's also a home gain.
But these are not things that you can just say yes,
we're going to do it and it'll be fine for
the price tag. You really had to work hard to justify.
And I think that is both the challenge and the
(25:34):
opportunity with things at the scale of the Olympic and
Paralympic Games.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
What do you think I mean, I think there are
just some companies that get it and see it as
part of their brandon. If you're a global company, the
global connection is obviously so unique and special here what
if anything, we're the big points of justification, validation, rationale
to help a new sponsor say yes, because there are
(26:00):
a bunch of new sponsors in these twenty twenty four
Summer Games.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that you'll continue to see that.
I think that it's a big swing. So we had
a couple of different instances where we were very close
at a time where there was transition, and we certainly
found that if a new CEO came in the first
thing that they're going to do isn't going to say
yes to an Olympic the size and scale of what
(26:25):
we were talking about. That being said, what you did
find is that there were people who had experienced whether
that was at former companies and the like, but there
are also ways that you can truly cut through the clutter.
And Marissa, you spend a little you know, spend some
time in the home improvement category. And while it wasn't
your former employer, but I think one of the greatest
(26:46):
programs that was ever put together was what Home Depot
did that was called the Olympic Job Program, is called
where they essentially at that time, you know, Olympians, which
are normal, not all Lebron James and not all experiencing
tons and tons. In fact, you know, what we found
is that over ninety percent of the athletes on tmosa's
roster of roughly seven hundred, eight hundred athletes don't have
(27:10):
any representation and don't have any commercial corporate revenue. And
of the ten percent that do, many of those happen
as at the conclusion of the games. So you're now
training full time and you may or may not have
an opportunity to pay your bills. And I've had many
many conversations with Olympians who would say, let alone paralympians,
because that's for sure a real challenge. But we ran
(27:33):
into challenges where they said, look, every month, I was
worried about, you know, bouncing checks, which you know, and
so Home Depot came in and said, okay, we'll allow
flexible schedules at the time provide a certain type of
employment opportunity that allowed for athletes to train because their
schedules were very different, and it became a really, really
incredible program that sort of supported the athletes of TMOSA. Today,
(27:57):
we see that Toyota in particular has been incredibly supportive
of the Paralympic athletes because their focus is very much
on mobility, and so many of the athletes in the
Paralympics are actually athletes that have disabilities are that are
affecting their mobility, and so Toyota has truly come in
to really support those athletes, support their journey and be
(28:20):
a real helping hand to help them train and really
compete at the global level. Really incredible stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I'm surprised at the ninety percent number for the athletes
not having any sponsorship or financial support, But at the
same time, I'm not because when you think about all
the different sports that are actually being now you know,
showcase at the Olympics, and every four years there's new
sports that are being added. Right you mentioned archery. I
mean my son and daughter love to play badminton. You
(28:49):
know that's an Olympic sports that we're going to be
watching that help us understand a little bit about you know,
the actual categories, right, Like, what do you think are
the most either you know, kind of overrated or maybe
underrated sports in the Olympic that you think folks should
have on the radar.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Well, I think it's going to be interesting to see.
I'll tell a couple different stories too on that. I
think it'll be interesting to see because you track and
field athletics is really trying to make a significant play
to try to raise the profile of athletics beyond the
four year cycle of the Olympic Games, I think that
it's going to be interesting to continue to watch what
they do. It's interesting because I have found hockey which
(29:27):
you and I would recognize that it is field hockey,
but it's actually hockey, and ice hockey is ice hockey
hockey actually great game, like amazing to see and the
things you learn about the sport. It's quite popular. But
one of the things I think is most unique about
the Olympic Games is gender parody. And so in fact,
I'll bring it back to our favorite sport, the sport
(29:50):
of soccer, and recognize that until nineteen ninety six, and well,
let me back up in nineteen eighty four, their women
were not able to compete in the marathon because they
did not believe at the Olympic level. They didn't believe
that women's bodies could handle running a marathon.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
At the Olympic level.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Don't get me started.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So nineteen eighty four, who can forget Joan Benoit Samilson
coming into the LA Coliseum and winning the first ever
Olympic gold medal and on home soil, and it's really
quite remarkable. Fast forward nineteen ninety six, women's soccer. This
was prior to the nineteen ninety nine Women's World Cup,
which we all remember or Brandy Chastain the epic moment,
(30:34):
but it actually began in nineteen ninety six in the
Olympic Games, when the Olympics originally said we will bring
women's soccer into the Games, not on television. In fact,
I was in the stadium in Athens, Georgia, which we
were playing at the University of Georgia, and our women
were playing in the gold medal match, and everybody was like,
they're not going to show any of this on television,
(30:55):
and in fact it wasn't broadcast. They cut in to
show the women on the podium getting a gold medal,
and that was the extent of the coverage in nineteen
ninety six. Now that being said, I would argue that
that was the catalyst for women's soccer, because nineteen ninety nine,
of course became an epic moment in the development, and
then we've of course seen an extraordinary rise in awareness
(31:19):
of itdity and just global acceptance of the sport of
soccer on the women's side of the game, which is
really quite remarkable. And I do credit the Olympics and
their push for gender parity to be a real catalyst
for the adoption of sport across the planet. And I
think that's a really really interesting part of this whole journey.
So for me, when I think about the Olympic Games,
(31:43):
it's not so much I have personally not focused as
much on individual sports as much as I have said, Wow,
the idea that gender parity was really started with the Olympics,
and it's really now it's made it so that there's
a global adoption of women in sports that has it's unparalleled.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I had not made that connection. And if you think
about the moment that we're in right now with women's sports,
and obviously you can just go down the line, whether
it's the WNBA, obviously you know women US women's national
team in terms of soccer. I mean, it's just we're
in such a moment and it's just getting started. But
I'm not going to let you off the hook. Give
me one kind of sport that you think should be
(32:25):
on people's I mean, you know, we have like listeners
of all age groups, you know, all across the country,
around the world. Please let us know something that we
should be looking forward to. Maybe it's a new sport
that's going to be in the Olympics this year, something
that is just not on people's radar.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Well, I actually am excited to see as we head
towards twenty eight. I think flag football is going to
be remarkable and you can already see how the NFL
is using that as a catalyst for adoption of American football,
not just in the United States and again from an
equitable perspective men and women, but also that's going to
be a real catalyst for the development across across the globe.
(32:58):
You know, I think that I'm excited to see what
our swimmers do. I mean, I always love swimming, track
and field, athletics and gymnastics. I have to be honest.
I loved hockey. Yeah, I love hockey. I'm a soccer person.
I love soccer. People always ask me, and I'm always like,
you know, it's hard for me to pick one because
there's so many. You know, you've got rugby, It just
goes on and the list goes on and on and on.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Right, Well, I want to shift gears a little bit
and go back to something we were touching on, which
is this idea of what the Olympics as a brand
can stand for. As you were talking about the gender
parody piece, I thought, gosh, how do you raise brand
awareness of that part of the uniqueness of the Olympics
as an identity. And then what's interesting to me is
(33:39):
each game, in terms of each hosted city, has a
little bit of a unique identity. It seems like the
cool part about the Paris Games when you think of
Paris as such a destination for fashion, is this might
be the most fashionable of the Olympic Games, because fashion
and sports are both part of culture. And I love
seeing this part. LVMH Louis v tomoed had to see
(34:03):
a huge holding company of fashion brands, including of course
Louis vu. Tone is a big official sponsor. Makes sense right,
French based company. But you see here in the US
and brands coming on that we haven't seen before, like
Lululemon Skims. So I think that's really interesting that we're
going to have for those of us who love fashion
and the intersection of sports, we're going to see more
(34:24):
of that here.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Some people might say fashions of sport.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Are just saying, well, I might be one of those people.
I could compete in the Olympics of designer discount shopping,
but that is probably a different subject altogether.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's a twenty eight sport.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
All right, Okay, I will lobby, I will start lobbying.
But anyway, not to get us off topic. Keeping us
on topic, so curious, like, how are you seeing the
Paris Games as a brand that way? And maybe just
to help us wrap a little bit, even though you've
now passed the Batoni's, you said, what would be your
ultimate ambition for the brand of the twenty eight Games.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
You know you can recognize it's going to be where
where Hollywood meets La meets culture meets storytelling meets the
beach meets the sun. But also you know, LA is
the home for everyone. And by that I mean if
you look at the demographics of Los Angeles, it is
in most cases the second most densely populated area from
(35:22):
a lot of countries. And therefore, these aren't just LA's games.
They aren't just the United States Games. They are actually
the world's game. And I think that's one of the
great things that LA can bring, which is real mash
up and celebration of culture at a time when I
think that that is a strength actually of the United States,
even though at times that perhaps is something we argue
(35:44):
against or argue for, depending but the reality is our
country truly is a melting pot, and I think LA
is really a showcase of that. And I think the
LA Games will I think bring the best of Los
Angeles to bear, whether that's Korea Town, whether that's Little Tehran,
whether that is all the various as sundry of neighborhoods
that exist throughout. I think we'll see it really shine
(36:05):
and do so in ways that tell stories about LA,
which is what obviously LA is great about.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And LA is also fifty percent Latino, so you're going
to have all the Americas show up in force because
it's going to be such a proud moment as well.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You know, we just talked about the American election and
the American brand and so with a little bit of
both a sense of optimism and stress in our previous episode.
So it's nice to think about that as something to
look forward to because the melting Pot is certainly, I
would argue, one of the most iconic, wonderful brand aspects
(36:42):
of Brand America. So it'll be fun to be rooting
back in our own soil. But in the meantime, we're
looking forward to watching these Paris games with new insight.
And when we come back, we would love to play
an Olympic sized edition of Cooler Cringe with you of
your game.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You bet.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
We are back and we are ready to play Core Cringe,
the Olympic sized edition with Kathy Carter. So, Kathy Core
Cringe esports as an official Olympic event?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Can I go with cooland Cringe?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You can play however you want?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Exactly all right, And here's why. I think it'd be awesome.
But how you But it's almost like how do you
anoint any one title? And therefore because it becomes a
therefore a billion dollar brand, and so that makes it
cringe worthy because the commercial the making the brand, because
they are part of so there But I think you'll
(37:43):
see companion events that will start to make and bring
it in in ways that'll that'll be cool.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's super interesting. I'm just just to clarify for our
listeners and you help keep me honest on this, Kathy.
It hasn't happened yet, but it's not just a fantasy
thought either. It's discussed. I think there's going to be
some demonstrations of it in these Olympic games.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Correct, Yeah, it's been I mean it's been a hot
topic for the Olympic movement for for quite a long time,
with sort of this, with many study groups working on it,
because at the end of the day, they didn't they
don't want games that have violence. And then number two,
they want to make sure that whatever they do makes
it so that they're not basically picking a publisher.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
That makes a world of sense. Yeah, all right, my turn,
and I'm going to do a cooler cringe that picks
up on a little of what Steven was asking you about.
What new sports are you excited about? So it's in summer.
Some are now added, but some are also out. So
I'm going to give you a twenty twenty four cooler
cringe of these Olympics breakdancing, BMX, spiking in baseball and
(38:50):
softball are actually out. Cooler cringe.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Listen. I think it's cool because I think that at
the end of the day, to make an event special
to a market is one of the cool things about
the Olympics, right, And I think in the case of Paris,
they will feature plus to concord with a lot of
the urban sports where I think breaking will be and
they'll do a lot of things that will create really
(39:17):
engaging moments for integration of the community, and I think
it'll be pretty cool. I think it's gonna be really cool.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Interesting, so cool or cringe Kathy non official Olympic sponsors
crashing the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Wow, that's a tough one. Here's what I'll say. Here's
what I'll say as somebody who's trying to yeah the market,
Roomy says it's got to happen. I mean, it's gonna
happen when you wake up and you're responsible for a budget.
It's cringeworthy, but it's a part of the game though.
I mean, we see that, and I think there's to
be fair. There are many ways for companies to get involved,
(39:54):
whether that's with athletes, whether that is with national federations.
There are some blackout rules around it. So I actually
think the reality is I think it's cringe worthy when
you're an organizer because you're like, holy moly, we need
all you guys to help us pay for these things.
But I actually think it's one of the cool things.
If you create a cultural moment, you know that it's
cool because of how many people want to be involved.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So we've got some tie scores happening in this Olympic Games,
of cooler cringe.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
I am right down the middle. I am right down
the middle.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I'm right down there. Right, here's one more, maybe our last.
And you also tipped at this before with how the
opening ceremonies of this Paris Olympic Games or going the
first in history outside of a stadium along the sen
River instead, is that cool or cringe?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I think it's cool. I mean I think it's it
is incredibly ambitious, incredibly ambitious, equally ambitious maybe taking a
look at the closing ceremonies and seeing what cool LA
may do too, because there will be an official transfer
of the game that will happen at the closing ceremony.
So just a plug for people to keep an eye
(41:04):
out to watch the closing ceremony.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
That sounds like a little Easter egg there.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I'm intrigued. I am definitely tuning in now to see that.
If nothing else, well, Kathy, thank you so much getting
your insider perspective and a different perspective as we all
watch the games for the thrill of the sport. As
you said, a true global peacetime event. Well, it's so special,
but understanding the underlying business behind it is also really special.
(41:31):
So thanks so much for joining us and go team.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Thank you so much, Kathy, Go Team USA.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Thank you guys. I really appreciate it, and Go Team USA.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Okay, now it's time for what's on your mind and
our question this week comes from Charlene.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Here's what Charlene wanted to know. Here's her question. I'm
interested in your thoughts on B to B business to business.
Do you have a philosophy on marketing to your customer's customer.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Well as a recovering B to B marketer? You know,
I feel like B to B means a couple of
different things. Right One, when you say your customer's customer,
I feel like, is that talking about B two C
brand like a Coca Cola, and you're really trying to
reach to their audience, whether it's gen Z or you know,
if it's you know, Visa or MasterCard or whoever it is.
(42:18):
Right Like, So there's that angle of your customer's customer.
But I think the traditional way that folks think of
B to B is really, you know, more on the
corporate side, where it's you know, you're selling software, you're
selling services to a company, and you know, this could
be everyone from Cisco to an ad tech company to
you know, Adobe, even though they have both a consumer side,
(42:39):
but they also have a business side. So I feel
like understanding B to B marketing, which really does not
have to be be to boring. I always talk about that.
I always view it as you know, H to H.
It's human to human, and I think people forget that.
Whether you're selling to a CTO, whether you're selling to
a CFO, you know, to a chief you know, human
relations officer, you really need to understand their business needs.
(43:02):
And it's a longer sales cycle for sure, but you
really need to think about thought leadership. I mean, you
have to do a lot of ABM, what we call
account based marketing, and we understand by account you know,
you kind of do all the segmentation. But at the
end of the day, Marisa like, these are just basic
marketing principles, right, and you have to understand the four p's.
(43:22):
You know, understand your price, understand your promotion, understand your place,
and what is your product that you are ultimately going
to get in front of them. And I feel like
those are universal. I mean, what do you.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Think, Well, you nailed my answer on the human to
human I suppose I've primarily been a B two C marketer,
but I have had experience in B to B, including
in a business like Lows, which was both. And to me,
the problem when you call it B to B is
it sounds so mechanical or so devoid of humanity, maybe boring,
(43:55):
or just you stop realizing that the end of the day,
it's people who who are still the customers. Just because
they're acting in a business capacity versus a personal capacity,
they're still wired as human beings, which means decisions are
both rational and irrational. They're both logical and emotional, and
people have fears and needs. All that is true whether
(44:19):
you're making a decision on behalf of your business and
that's what makes you a B to B customer, or
whether you're making a decision on behalf of yourself your family,
and that makes you know on the receiving end of
a B two C message. So for me, the bottom
line is philosophically, to answer Charlene's question, you got to
think about those underlying drivers and using psychology and emotion,
(44:41):
those are not dirty words. When it comes to B
to B marketing, the tactics, as in any different context,
may be a little different. You may be at trade shows,
you may be using trade media, you may be using
different tactics to deliver the message. But how you tell
the story should not be devoid of humans, because you
are still marketing to humans.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Cfo still have a heart. Last time I checked. They
still have to you know, put on pants, you know,
one leg at a time, like all of us. Right,
So I mean, I mean France, I have a saw
spot for them, you know that?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Kidding?
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I feel that, you know, when you look at all
these things, it's truly about just the principles of business, right,
I mean, look at your category, whether it's telecom, whether
it's automotive, whether it's financial services. Like when you are
in a B to B environment, I feel like really
understanding the business is critical because then you could go
in and really figure out, like what are going to
be the leavers? How do you do thought leadership? Like
(45:38):
everyone wants to feel well informed, they want to feel appreciated,
They want us to feel seen, especially so in a
B to B environment, because I think it's harder to
cut through the clutter. It's so much opportunity when you
have to do it right. So I think you're spot on. Well.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I hope that was a gold medal answer in the
spirit of our major topic today, and that is it
for now.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Well played, Well played.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Thank you for joining us. We hope you like what
you're continuing to hear from us, and to ensure you
keep hearing it, please subscribe to brand New wherever you
listen to your podcasts, and if you want one of
your questions answered, just tell us what's on your mind
by emailing us at ideas at brandshnew dot com and
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Look for us wherever you are across the socials, and
please join us next time on Brand New
I and thanks for joining us on brand New from
the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marisa Baalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm Stephen Wolf bet Ada.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Oh see, you're brushing up your French again. First we
were doing that when we were in Can together, but
now I know why you're doing it because we are
talking the Olympics in a Paris, France happening now. And
it's been interesting, hasn't it. How we've been toggling a
little bit between sports and politics the past few weeks.
Arguably politics feels like a sport. Maybe sports can be
(00:41):
political in a certain way, hopefully not always.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Business is sport, the politics a sport, you know, vice versa.
It's all really interesting, and it's very timely because it's been
the summer NonStop of sports and certainly very political as well.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
It's all culture. That's the connective tissue, isn't it as
we think about it and what it all means. And
we've got a pretty cool interview coming up with a
friend of mine that I was excited to pull in
and introduce her. You and we recorded a few days
ago with Kathy Carter, who's been just a titan in
the world and the business of sports.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
She was awesome. She's a friend of yours. I didn't
know her, but I'm a huge fan now. Just everything
that she's done in soccer is amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
In soccer and bringing the LA twenty twenty eight games
to the state of readiness as up until recently the
CEO and the sort of phase one, and she'll talk
about So who better to give us a perspective on
the Olympics and someone who has been helming the very
next one to come from the summer game standpoint and
back to the US.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
You said the key word, you said culture And Marisa,
what did we just see in Paris? Was that the
best or the worst of French culture on display?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So we have to put this in a little bit
of time in context because we talked to Kathy a
few days ago. You'll hear that next. But then now
we're talking post watching the opening ceremony. Is I loved it?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Okay? I was not as much in level fit as
you are.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Very polarized reactions that we're seeing.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I mean, I think a lot of people are just
like WTF, Like what am I watching?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well, it was a WTF but in a uniquely French way.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Why is there a blue Papa smurf in front of
like a bouquet, a banqulet. I mean, it was just
it was really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
How about when you spend billions of dollars, maybe not
billions on just the opening ceremony, the whole execution of
the Olympics is around a ten billion dollar event, and
then it's pouring rain during the whole thing. I mean
they did not catch a weather break on that.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, I think I catch a break about that. But
I'm glad you brought out the business side of it
because it's really hard. I mean, we talk all the time.
We get asked about what is the return on investment.
I mean think about, you know, your investment in the Olympics,
and what is the return on investment for that? I
mean all of the Olympics, whether it's you know, Summer Olympics,
Winter Olympics, they've all over an over budget. It's not
(03:01):
like you could move the date right, like it's a
set time every four years, and so this was supposed
to be the cheaper, more cost efficient in the year
of Efficiency model Olympics, but they've also run over budget.
So I don't know, like, do you feel like was
it worth the investment? Is this a good thing for
the city of Paris.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Well, we're going to get Kathy's perspective on that in
a minute. In general about the Olympics, not necessarily just
this one. That's funny. I've read some articles, so it
might be interesting what pr machine is working where on
the media. I read some articles that this came in
conservatively on the budget, so who knows exactly where the
truth lies in that. But you're right, I mean, there's
(03:41):
no weather insurance when you're doing the opening ceremonies of
the Olympic Games. I think it's an unbelievable showcase for
a city and for national pride. How do you quantify that?
Obviously a little hard to say, And for everyone who
thought it was wacky, it was wacky, but in this
uniquely French way. And what I thought was cool was
(04:03):
it integrated all these different parts of call it French
culture and how it's impacted the world globally. So it
wasn't actually just about sports, which was an interesting reframing
of the brand of the Olympics if you think about it,
and I heard some commentators talking about that too, that
it was in a way an attempt to modernize it
a little now successful or not, we obviously have a
(04:24):
little bit of a difference of opinion. But that in
and of itself is interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Sure, But when you think about the brands that are
being you know, kind of displayed on TV. You know,
they had Coca Cola, I had Lily, they had Visa,
and then they're talking about a monogator, Like, what what
is happening? I mean, I'm there with my young kids.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, that might have gone far.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I don't know if that was on brand.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
But oh, did you have to explain manasatois to your
kids again?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I think they were kind of frankly that they were bored.
You know, they were watching it and they were bored.
They were like, it's so long, It's so slow long.
But they were very interested in you know what they
were calling the ninja that was running across the rooftops,
the French ninja.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
The Phantom of the Opera meets Lames meets Parkour.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Well, I mean again, all the memes. And this is
where you just got to love the Internet. I mean,
it has so much bad, but you know this is
where it signs. Where you see all the memes. There's
a very popular video game called Assassin's Creed and the
main protagonists in the video game looked like the French Ninja.
So there you go. But you know, from a brand perspective,
I don't know if if that juice is worth a squeeze.
(05:34):
But again, very interesting to see kind of everyone try
to convene. And again, I think folks are so hungry
to kind of, you know, have that you know, water
cooler moment where everyone's talking about something, and you know,
they are very few events that kind of bring everyone
together to talk about hopefully something positive or maybe it's negative.
If all news is good news.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Okay, So that's an interesting question with regards to media
and something we talk off and about. Did you watch
it live on NBC last night with the kids?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I did not watch it live, and it was interesting
because I've actually cut the cord. You know, we used
to have cable. We don't anymore. We use YouTube TV,
which is by the way, just awesome. Again, no paid advertisement,
no ties, It's just a great product in the great service.
And we actually went on to Peacock to actually see
if we could watch it, and they were holding it
(06:25):
so that it would air at seven thirty pm Pacific time,
and it's like, this thing's happened already seven eight hours ago,
Like why wouldn't you show it live? So we were
actually able to go see it, you know, kind of
it was already recorded on YouTube TV.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You're right, they rebroadcast it. We got home and we
decided to watch it live. As a misnomer, it was
actually six hours earlier, but sort of in its regularly
broadcast way as a rebroadcast at seven thirty on the
East Coast, inclusive of the commercials. But to me, that
was part of what I wanted to see. But you know,
(06:59):
a lot of people are saying, in addition to perhaps
the weird culture aspect of how the opening ceremonies transpired,
that this is the first TikTok Olympics, because so much
of the content, especially perhaps with younger audiences, isn't going
to be consumed in the traditional broadcast way. It's going
to be in the storytelling of the individual athletes, the
(07:21):
highlight moments, and it's all kind of turning into digestible.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yance doing her song for the Team USA, right, right,
But it's all on.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Social and it's just it's all on social.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I find it's so hard with these kind of very
anachronistic business models, you know, this attempt to kind of
maintain the old guard to hold that old structure in place,
and it's just not keeping up with where the consumer is.
And we're frankly, I think Brandon kleins are. I mean,
I just find it shocking that you would not give
audiences what they want. And I understand that there's these
(07:53):
old economics and business models that you need to kind of,
you know, prop up, but there's got to be innovation
here because again and gen Z and consumers, they're going
to social and there's a reason why, because that's where
they're finding things live in the moment.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
But in fairness to NBC Universal, who owns some media
rights for this, is they've been giving Tiktop, Snack YouTube
Meta front center access to the competition. So the fact
that they're playing in the sandbox as opposed to trying
to just put a guardrail around all the content to
be precious about it, I do think suggests a recognition
(08:29):
that the way we consume, you know, a major event
like this has changed. So you got to give them
a little credit for that.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
No, I mean again, like I think everyone has now
realized that they need to play with social and you
have to have all those aspects. I mean, the other
big thing that's been happening is all of the drama
that's going on with Warner Brothers Discovery and losing the
NBA rights and now they're suing the NBA, right, I
mean that's insane, Like you actually have adia, like your
media partner is actually suing the league and it's because
(08:56):
they lost out to the streaming rights which are now
going to Amazon on right, And so it's just, you know,
again it's understanding where is the puck going? Where is
the consumer? And I think Rashad Tobakawala, who you know,
I used to work with at Poopac's, who was just
oh he's wonderful, incredible visionary. If you don't follow him
or read his sub stact, please sign up for what
Rashad writes. But he has a great you know saying,
(09:19):
which I think is really profound, is you cannot put
the future in the containers of the past. And I
think that so many folks continually try to do that,
and so we'll see what happens. But you know, definitely,
I think having someone like Kathy to come on to
the pod this episode. It's so timely and all of
our expertise and whatever's happening in Paris. I cannot wait
(09:39):
for the Olympics to come to LA where I'm now
living our home, and it's going to be awesome to
see it here in the States in four years.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Well, when we come back, let's talk about the business
and the brands involved in the Olympic Games. Well, we
are back and we have joining us the fabulous Kathy Carter,
who not only a friend, but she is here because
she is a thirty year veteran and dynamo in the
(10:07):
world of sports. She has been a founding member of
Major League Soccer, most recently housed this the CEO of
the LA twenty eight Olympic and Paralympic Games. So she
has a very unique lens on this summer's Olympic Games
happening now in Paris, and specifically the business behind them.
Welcome Kathy, Thanks for joining us for this.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Thank you. I really appreciate the invitation to be on.
I'm so excited to talk to you guys today.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
This is gonna be fun.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Welcome Kathy, and it's really great. And again as a
lifelong soccer fan. Thank you for all of your service
and all that you've done for Major League soccer in
the United States. It's a real treat to meet you.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Wait, I'm sorry, Stephen, do you like soccer?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I mean, you know, it's football. But that's another episode
to talk about the Olympics, Kathy, let's do that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Well, and by the way, not for nothing, but obviously
soccer is a big part of the Olympic Games as well,
so we will cover off a little bit of the
beautiful game because obviously it's never too far from any
conversation that I have, and it fortunately it weaves pretty
nicely into the conversation around the Olympics, so we can
pull it all together.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
That makes my heart happy. Yeah, but seriously, we're at
the cusp of just this incredible Olympics that's going to
be happening in Paris, France, and in general, it's one
of the ultimate you know, brand and sponsorship, you know,
business opportunities that exist on the planet, especially at a
point where just live sports is really you know, just
kind of the pillar that's keeping up the media business.
You know, I'd love to get a little insider perspective
(11:35):
in terms of what are the best things and you know,
kind of the things that might not be so great
that you see and you kind of in the world
of the Olympics, but specifically how brands and businesses are
able to participate in the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Let's just set some context as a starting point when
we talk about the Olympic Games, let alone the Paralympic Games,
which I think is important that we actually talk about
the Paralympics as well. You know, you're talking about the
law urgest peacetime gathering on the planet, and that sort
of is hard to sort of fathom, but you're talking
about upwards of fourteen five hundred athletes for the Olympic
(12:09):
Games and about six thousand for the Paralympic Games. And
it's actually the like I said, the largest event. The Paralympics,
which happens then just about ten days after the end
of the Olympics, is the third largest event on the planet.
So just the size and scale of what is required
to put an event of that magnitude on actually requires
a very different type of relationship with companies because not
(12:34):
only are companies looking at it as how do I
actually use this from a cultural from a brand, from
a relevance perspective, but it's also perhaps the single greatest
way to showcase what your organization actually is all about. So,
whether that be integration in ways that we probably don't
see at this size or scale, that I think is
really quite remarkable, and we can talk a little bit
(12:56):
about how that's going to come to life, not just
in Paris but also as you start to look out
to la as well. But it's a really really complicated,
complex ecosystem just by the size and scale of what
actually is happening.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I just have to ask, because you said, you know
the largest and the third largest with the Paralympic Games,
what is the second? Is it what I think it is?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Well, I'll let you answer that question, because I bet
you know what it is, and that's even getting larger.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Is it the workup?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yes, it is. It will be the FIFA World Cup.
I haven't seen the numbers recently, but the FIFA Women's
World Cup will soon I think be rivaling what we
see with some of these other events as well. So
it's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Though so from the perspective of someone who has literally
helmed the building of an Olympic games, and it happens
years in advance, as you can attest, because we're still
years out from LA twenty twenty eight and you'd been
working on this for years before this. What does it
take to mount something? And I know that's such a
broad question that it gives you a lot of different
(13:55):
ways to answer it. But through the lens of business
and brands and sponsors and gov, I what surprised you?
I remember sitting down and talking to you about it
and just your eyes being so wide of even the
surprise to you of all the pieces you had to
put together. How can you just give our listeners a
taste of what is really involved.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, just to make it clear, I left the Olympics,
so I spent five years working on it and the
bid and the announcement of the bid was a couple
of years before I joined. And then there's still four
more years to go, and so by the time LA
host the games, it will be over a decade that
the organization has been planning and the city has been
(14:36):
planning for the games to come together. It's really interesting
because you know, why does it take so long? And
really and let's take a look at what we're seeing
right now in Paris, and Paris started now at the
same time LA did, and that was unprecedented that they
announced both twenty four and twenty eight at the same time,
and so LA actually had an extended period of time
(14:57):
to plan. But in the case of Paris, we'll see
that they will do a very non traditional opening ceremony
that will happen actually on the River Senn. They also
have been and are looking to utilize the Olympics as
sort of the moment that they have finalized just to
a large degree, a cleanup of the River Senn, and
they will actually host some of the swimming events with
(15:19):
most notably the swimming portion of the triathlon and then
the marathon swim in actually the river.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The Parisians have been pretty riled up about that, right,
threatening to protest in a not very sanitary way.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, and I think it's more that they've been promised
this for so long and this is a huge bet
by the government in the case of France, in the
city of Paris, to really spend a lot of time
in a very long period of time, hopefully culminating with
something that will actually after the Olympics are over, leave
the city better than what they had before the Olympics
(15:52):
were there, and if the citizens of Paris now can
enjoy the river in a way that perhaps wasn't available
to them prior to, that's a real benefit to the community.
And I think that's a We're hopeful and you know,
knock on wood, that that all goes well, and it's
still a game time decision, so to speak, as to
whether or not the swimming events will be able to
and I think that they will pull it off, and
(16:14):
then how that actual will benefit the community. Now. In
the case of LA you're looking at the city started
well before the games about using some of this to
actually start to be a catalyst for how quickly they
could move forward with public transportation and what could they
do to actually really begin to improve the lives of
the citizens of Los Angeles as we know, which is
(16:36):
a very car forward mentality. And while cars will never
be any you have fair point, it's a real understatement,
but there's a lot of a lot of construction that's
been going on to build railways. And I think there's
two parts of that when you think about Los Angeles
and sort of how it potentially comes together in twenty
twenty eight. One is hopefully that there is an overall
(16:58):
rail system and bus system that the community starts to
use more frequently. But then number two, if in fact
the games can actually be a catalyst for people utilizing
those resources, maybe people start to get used to taking
the metro to events, to museums, to things where it
takes one more car off the road, which actually has
a knock on effect to the quality of life for
(17:21):
the citizens of LA. So those are types of things,
and I think that that just takes years and years
of planning when it comes to actually putting the games on.
What was so remarkable is to me was how important
the funding, at least in the United States, the way
we look at it is it's got to be privately financed,
So how important companies are, How the government is still
(17:42):
a big piece of.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Helping it privately financed, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Through ticket sales, hospitality, licensing, sponsorship, yeah, television revenues. So
and how in fact that comes together. So the pressure
for LA in the very beginning was how do you
get yourself ready, how do you start to really build
the momentum of the commercial opportunity and then move into
this last phase which is very much where and quite
(18:09):
frankly why I decided it was time to sort of
turn the baton to really move in an operational capacity,
just my background being much more in sales and marketing
and what we're talking about today. Then it's really about
making sure that you get the athletes to the stadium
on time. And that's a really, really technical requirement that
is really significant.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I mean, this is incredible operational infrastructure at a
scale that I don't think people really understand. But I
love what you're talking about, which is the impact of
the Olympics is going to be felt in the city
by the community for obviously decades to come. There is
a part of urban planning that I don't think people appreciate.
I mean, I'm so curious what the impact in la
(18:51):
because you know, they've been working on LAX for years now.
You know, I've been here for a minute. But it's
going to be really interesting to see I think the
positive improvements in the city. But I also think, you know,
just given your experience in marketing, I think one of
the things that just as a fan, you know, so
when that even as a casual fan, because it's coming
every four years, people always want the human interest stories
(19:13):
following the athletes. I mean, I think part of the
US squad at the Olympics this year, you have, you know,
everyone from Lebron James too, you know, Simone Biles, Like,
how do you really think about the human element and
you know these narratives and do you feel that that
is hard to you know, kind of either find or
connect with given the state of fragmented media that we're
(19:34):
in today.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Yeah. No, I mean, I think that's one of the
great challenges that NBC faces is how to make sure
that they and I think that they've learned a lot
through the years and obviously I don't think anybody's better
at telling some of the human interest stories and really
tugging at the heartstrings, which I actually think is really
quite remarkable. And you know, we all remember and I
(19:54):
think P and G and the folks there probably are
the leaders in the clubhouse, if you will, at Thank.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You Mom campaign is truly just epic.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, I think it's probably one of the best campaigns
we've ever seen. And I think that that sort of
set a bar then for marketers, just as an example
about how to use this in ways because it is
every four years, it is such a diverse swath of
athletes from as you mentioned, Lebron James and Simone Biles
to archers that we may not have ever seen or
(20:25):
may not know about that truly are your next door neighbors,
and so really telling these collective stories. And I think
that's where P ANDNG truly landed the proverbial plane on
that campaign, and they continue to do so. We're seeing
more and more brands that truly do lean into that
to showcase what's different and actually showcase the cultural aspect
(20:45):
and maybe not as much about the avidity of sport,
but rather the avidity of the journey to get there.
And I think that's a pretty interesting way that they've
gone about it, and it's worked really really well for them.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
As a corollary to that, do you ever find yourself
having to either justify I mean again, I'll put in
my finance at for a second, like how do you
justify the ROI on that right? Like, oh my gosh,
like this huge investment, you know, whether it's as an
official Olympic sponsor, you know, how do you really you
make the business case for spending so much money to
(21:19):
really see that return on investment? Is that a hard
case to make do you think yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I mean it kind of depends. Let's go all the
way back to where I said integration is such an
important part. So in Paris, the technical infrastructure that is
required to deliver the games, think, the technology and the
integration of that technology is pretty significant. The company that
is delivering that today is Atos, who is both an IOC,
a global partner of the Olympic Games, but also a
(21:46):
really fundamental delivery partner that will transition after Paris. It
will transition to Deloitte. And Deloitte has started working and
they started working with LA about nine months ago to
start working on that technological integration required to do everything
from accreditation to the real time scoring and statistics which Omega,
(22:10):
another global partner of the Olympic Games delivers. So there
truly is and so in some cases it makes sense
because there's an economic back and forth between the marketing
stories that I can that a company like Omega or
that Deloitte can tell, and actually how much they're paying
to become an official partner. And so there is a
(22:31):
line in those because it is so significant and it's
public knowledge. But the LA twenty eight budget is just
over it's about six and a half billion dollars to
put on the games. Well, a lot of that is
technological integration and a variety of other areas where companies
actually can integrate into that in a way. But in
order to tell the story, they have to be a partner.
(22:53):
So justification in a lot of ways, Yes, very difficult,
but that's all a part of really learning and getting
out to understand Dan, both the delivery and the potential
to tell really great stories.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I want to build on Stephen's question because this is
something we talk a lot about. I mean, it's such
an interesting marketing moment at a time where things have
become so fragmented that I think we do want to
have a bit of that ad Bowl Super Bowl moment
with the Olympics than we can, where you see the
best work and you see the most It lends itself
(23:25):
to that kind of storytelling you were talking about, heartwarming
motivational doesn't have to literally involve athletes, but often times
it draws on that or uses them as a point
of storytelling. And yet there's all this pressure to kind
of drive everything sort of down, and you know, immediat
ROI performance marketing. So the business case for being an
Olympic sponsor is sort of an interesting one because it
(23:48):
is expensive and were you finding that as you were
lining up the deals for LA twenty twenty eight that
you had to work maybe harder than you thought, or
was there more helped me if it was a market
or that you're dealing with, build the right case to
go back to their companies and say it's a big
price tag, here's why it's worth it.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes, without question, I'd say a handful of things. Number
one is what we found, and I think what you
find at the IOC as they're selling the global deals.
It really becomes a board level decision, a CEO level,
and a board sort of has to be a part
of that as well because of the because there's also
(24:28):
there's a risk and opportunity, but the opportunity is really generational,
is the way I would just that I often described it.
And there is nothing at the scale and certainly when
we think about LA twenty eight, there's nothing that we
will ever see, probably in our lifetime as marketers that
will be as significant as the LA twenty eight games themselves,
(24:52):
just size, scale, integration, opportunity. LA is a market where
Hollywood meets sport meets you know, new distribution platforms, all
of it. It will be this really intriguing moment in
time that and that was part of what we went
out and talked to folks about. But to be fair,
we also had to get really really diligent about how
(25:13):
to justify the cost. And in some cases that was
because part of that was about integration into the delivery
of the games. Part of that was because it's you know,
if it's a domestic company, it's also a home gain.
But these are not things that you can just say yes,
we're going to do it and it'll be fine for
the price tag. You really had to work hard to justify.
And I think that is both the challenge and the
(25:34):
opportunity with things at the scale of the Olympic and
Paralympic Games.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
What do you think I mean, I think there are
just some companies that get it and see it as
part of their brandon. If you're a global company, the
global connection is obviously so unique and special here what
if anything, we're the big points of justification, validation, rationale
to help a new sponsor say yes, because there are
(26:00):
a bunch of new sponsors in these twenty twenty four
Summer Games.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that you'll continue to see that.
I think that it's a big swing. So we had
a couple of different instances where we were very close
at a time where there was transition, and we certainly
found that if a new CEO came in the first
thing that they're going to do isn't going to say
yes to an Olympic the size and scale of what
(26:25):
we were talking about. That being said, what you did
find is that there were people who had experienced whether
that was at former companies and the like, but there
are also ways that you can truly cut through the clutter.
And Marissa, you spend a little you know, spend some
time in the home improvement category. And while it wasn't
your former employer, but I think one of the greatest
(26:46):
programs that was ever put together was what Home Depot
did that was called the Olympic Job Program, is called
where they essentially at that time, you know, Olympians, which
are normal, not all Lebron James and not all experiencing
tons and tons. In fact, you know, what we found
is that over ninety percent of the athletes on tmosa's
roster of roughly seven hundred, eight hundred athletes don't have
(27:10):
any representation and don't have any commercial corporate revenue. And
of the ten percent that do, many of those happen
as at the conclusion of the games. So you're now
training full time and you may or may not have
an opportunity to pay your bills. And I've had many
many conversations with Olympians who would say, let alone paralympians,
because that's for sure a real challenge. But we ran
(27:33):
into challenges where they said, look, every month, I was
worried about, you know, bouncing checks, which you know, and
so Home Depot came in and said, okay, we'll allow
flexible schedules at the time provide a certain type of
employment opportunity that allowed for athletes to train because their
schedules were very different, and it became a really, really
incredible program that sort of supported the athletes of TMOSA. Today,
(27:57):
we see that Toyota in particular has been incredibly supportive
of the Paralympic athletes because their focus is very much
on mobility, and so many of the athletes in the
Paralympics are actually athletes that have disabilities are that are
affecting their mobility, and so Toyota has truly come in
to really support those athletes, support their journey and be
(28:20):
a real helping hand to help them train and really
compete at the global level. Really incredible stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I'm surprised at the ninety percent number for the athletes
not having any sponsorship or financial support, But at the
same time, I'm not because when you think about all
the different sports that are actually being now you know,
showcase at the Olympics, and every four years there's new
sports that are being added. Right you mentioned archery. I
mean my son and daughter love to play badminton. You
(28:49):
know that's an Olympic sports that we're going to be
watching that help us understand a little bit about you know,
the actual categories, right, Like, what do you think are
the most either you know, kind of overrated or maybe
underrated sports in the Olympic that you think folks should
have on the radar.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Well, I think it's going to be interesting to see.
I'll tell a couple different stories too on that. I
think it'll be interesting to see because you track and
field athletics is really trying to make a significant play
to try to raise the profile of athletics beyond the
four year cycle of the Olympic Games, I think that
it's going to be interesting to continue to watch what
they do. It's interesting because I have found hockey which
(29:27):
you and I would recognize that it is field hockey,
but it's actually hockey, and ice hockey is ice hockey
hockey actually great game, like amazing to see and the
things you learn about the sport. It's quite popular. But
one of the things I think is most unique about
the Olympic Games is gender parody. And so in fact,
I'll bring it back to our favorite sport, the sport
(29:50):
of soccer, and recognize that until nineteen ninety six, and well,
let me back up in nineteen eighty four, their women
were not able to compete in the marathon because they
did not believe at the Olympic level. They didn't believe
that women's bodies could handle running a marathon.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
At the Olympic level.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Don't get me started.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
So nineteen eighty four, who can forget Joan Benoit Samilson
coming into the LA Coliseum and winning the first ever
Olympic gold medal and on home soil, and it's really
quite remarkable. Fast forward nineteen ninety six, women's soccer. This
was prior to the nineteen ninety nine Women's World Cup,
which we all remember or Brandy Chastain the epic moment,
(30:34):
but it actually began in nineteen ninety six in the
Olympic Games, when the Olympics originally said we will bring
women's soccer into the Games, not on television. In fact,
I was in the stadium in Athens, Georgia, which we
were playing at the University of Georgia, and our women
were playing in the gold medal match, and everybody was like,
they're not going to show any of this on television,
(30:55):
and in fact it wasn't broadcast. They cut in to
show the women on the podium getting a gold medal,
and that was the extent of the coverage in nineteen
ninety six. Now that being said, I would argue that
that was the catalyst for women's soccer, because nineteen ninety nine,
of course became an epic moment in the development, and
then we've of course seen an extraordinary rise in awareness
(31:19):
of itdity and just global acceptance of the sport of
soccer on the women's side of the game, which is
really quite remarkable. And I do credit the Olympics and
their push for gender parity to be a real catalyst
for the adoption of sport across the planet. And I
think that's a really really interesting part of this whole journey.
So for me, when I think about the Olympic Games,
(31:43):
it's not so much I have personally not focused as
much on individual sports as much as I have said, Wow,
the idea that gender parity was really started with the Olympics,
and it's really now it's made it so that there's
a global adoption of women in sports that has it's unparalleled.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I had not made that connection. And if you think
about the moment that we're in right now with women's sports,
and obviously you can just go down the line, whether
it's the WNBA, obviously you know women US women's national
team in terms of soccer. I mean, it's just we're
in such a moment and it's just getting started. But
I'm not going to let you off the hook. Give
me one kind of sport that you think should be
(32:25):
on people's I mean, you know, we have like listeners
of all age groups, you know, all across the country,
around the world. Please let us know something that we
should be looking forward to. Maybe it's a new sport
that's going to be in the Olympics this year, something
that is just not on people's radar.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Well, I actually am excited to see as we head
towards twenty eight. I think flag football is going to
be remarkable and you can already see how the NFL
is using that as a catalyst for adoption of American football,
not just in the United States and again from an
equitable perspective men and women, but also that's going to
be a real catalyst for the development across across the globe.
(32:58):
You know, I think that I'm excited to see what
our swimmers do. I mean, I always love swimming, track
and field, athletics and gymnastics. I have to be honest.
I loved hockey. Yeah, I love hockey. I'm a soccer person.
I love soccer. People always ask me, and I'm always like,
you know, it's hard for me to pick one because
there's so many. You know, you've got rugby, It just
goes on and the list goes on and on and on.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Right, Well, I want to shift gears a little bit
and go back to something we were touching on, which
is this idea of what the Olympics as a brand
can stand for. As you were talking about the gender
parody piece, I thought, gosh, how do you raise brand
awareness of that part of the uniqueness of the Olympics
as an identity. And then what's interesting to me is
(33:39):
each game, in terms of each hosted city, has a
little bit of a unique identity. It seems like the
cool part about the Paris Games when you think of
Paris as such a destination for fashion, is this might
be the most fashionable of the Olympic Games, because fashion
and sports are both part of culture. And I love
seeing this part. LVMH Louis v tomoed had to see
(34:03):
a huge holding company of fashion brands, including of course
Louis vu. Tone is a big official sponsor. Makes sense right,
French based company. But you see here in the US
and brands coming on that we haven't seen before, like
Lululemon Skims. So I think that's really interesting that we're
going to have for those of us who love fashion
and the intersection of sports, we're going to see more
(34:24):
of that here.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Some people might say fashions of sport.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Are just saying, well, I might be one of those people.
I could compete in the Olympics of designer discount shopping,
but that is probably a different subject altogether.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's a twenty eight sport.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
All right, Okay, I will lobby, I will start lobbying.
But anyway, not to get us off topic. Keeping us
on topic, so curious, like, how are you seeing the
Paris Games as a brand that way? And maybe just
to help us wrap a little bit, even though you've
now passed the Batoni's, you said, what would be your
ultimate ambition for the brand of the twenty eight Games.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
You know you can recognize it's going to be where
where Hollywood meets La meets culture meets storytelling meets the
beach meets the sun. But also you know, LA is
the home for everyone. And by that I mean if
you look at the demographics of Los Angeles, it is
in most cases the second most densely populated area from
(35:22):
a lot of countries. And therefore, these aren't just LA's games.
They aren't just the United States Games. They are actually
the world's game. And I think that's one of the
great things that LA can bring, which is real mash
up and celebration of culture at a time when I
think that that is a strength actually of the United States,
even though at times that perhaps is something we argue
(35:44):
against or argue for, depending but the reality is our
country truly is a melting pot, and I think LA
is really a showcase of that. And I think the
LA Games will I think bring the best of Los
Angeles to bear, whether that's Korea Town, whether that's Little Tehran,
whether that is all the various as sundry of neighborhoods
that exist throughout. I think we'll see it really shine
(36:05):
and do so in ways that tell stories about LA,
which is what obviously LA is great about.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And LA is also fifty percent Latino, so you're going
to have all the Americas show up in force because
it's going to be such a proud moment as well.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You know, we just talked about the American election and
the American brand and so with a little bit of
both a sense of optimism and stress in our previous episode.
So it's nice to think about that as something to
look forward to because the melting Pot is certainly, I
would argue, one of the most iconic, wonderful brand aspects
(36:42):
of Brand America. So it'll be fun to be rooting
back in our own soil. But in the meantime, we're
looking forward to watching these Paris games with new insight.
And when we come back, we would love to play
an Olympic sized edition of Cooler Cringe with you of
your game.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You bet.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
We are back and we are ready to play Core Cringe,
the Olympic sized edition with Kathy Carter. So, Kathy Core
Cringe esports as an official Olympic event?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Can I go with cooland Cringe?
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You can play however you want?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Exactly all right, And here's why. I think it'd be awesome.
But how you But it's almost like how do you
anoint any one title? And therefore because it becomes a
therefore a billion dollar brand, and so that makes it
cringe worthy because the commercial the making the brand, because
they are part of so there But I think you'll
(37:43):
see companion events that will start to make and bring
it in in ways that'll that'll be cool.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's super interesting. I'm just just to clarify for our
listeners and you help keep me honest on this, Kathy.
It hasn't happened yet, but it's not just a fantasy
thought either. It's discussed. I think there's going to be
some demonstrations of it in these Olympic games.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Correct, Yeah, it's been I mean it's been a hot
topic for the Olympic movement for for quite a long time,
with sort of this, with many study groups working on it,
because at the end of the day, they didn't they
don't want games that have violence. And then number two,
they want to make sure that whatever they do makes
it so that they're not basically picking a publisher.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
That makes a world of sense. Yeah, all right, my turn,
and I'm going to do a cooler cringe that picks
up on a little of what Steven was asking you about.
What new sports are you excited about? So it's in summer.
Some are now added, but some are also out. So
I'm going to give you a twenty twenty four cooler
cringe of these Olympics breakdancing, BMX, spiking in baseball and
(38:50):
softball are actually out. Cooler cringe.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Listen. I think it's cool because I think that at
the end of the day, to make an event special
to a market is one of the cool things about
the Olympics, right, And I think in the case of Paris,
they will feature plus to concord with a lot of
the urban sports where I think breaking will be and
they'll do a lot of things that will create really
(39:17):
engaging moments for integration of the community, and I think
it'll be pretty cool. I think it's gonna be really cool.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Interesting, so cool or cringe Kathy non official Olympic sponsors
crashing the Olympics.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Wow, that's a tough one. Here's what I'll say. Here's
what I'll say as somebody who's trying to yeah the market,
Roomy says it's got to happen. I mean, it's gonna
happen when you wake up and you're responsible for a budget.
It's cringeworthy, but it's a part of the game though.
I mean, we see that, and I think there's to
be fair. There are many ways for companies to get involved,
(39:54):
whether that's with athletes, whether that is with national federations.
There are some blackout rules around it. So I actually
think the reality is I think it's cringe worthy when
you're an organizer because you're like, holy moly, we need
all you guys to help us pay for these things.
But I actually think it's one of the cool things.
If you create a cultural moment, you know that it's
cool because of how many people want to be involved.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So we've got some tie scores happening in this Olympic Games,
of cooler cringe.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
I am right down the middle. I am right down
the middle.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I'm right down there. Right, here's one more, maybe our last.
And you also tipped at this before with how the
opening ceremonies of this Paris Olympic Games or going the
first in history outside of a stadium along the sen
River instead, is that cool or cringe?
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I think it's cool. I mean I think it's it
is incredibly ambitious, incredibly ambitious, equally ambitious maybe taking a
look at the closing ceremonies and seeing what cool LA
may do too, because there will be an official transfer
of the game that will happen at the closing ceremony.
So just a plug for people to keep an eye
(41:04):
out to watch the closing ceremony.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
That sounds like a little Easter egg there.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I'm intrigued. I am definitely tuning in now to see that.
If nothing else, well, Kathy, thank you so much getting
your insider perspective and a different perspective as we all
watch the games for the thrill of the sport. As
you said, a true global peacetime event. Well, it's so special,
but understanding the underlying business behind it is also really special.
(41:31):
So thanks so much for joining us and go team.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Thank you so much, Kathy, Go Team USA.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Thank you guys. I really appreciate it, and Go Team USA.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Okay, now it's time for what's on your mind and
our question this week comes from Charlene.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Here's what Charlene wanted to know. Here's her question. I'm
interested in your thoughts on B to B business to business.
Do you have a philosophy on marketing to your customer's customer.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Well as a recovering B to B marketer? You know,
I feel like B to B means a couple of
different things. Right One, when you say your customer's customer,
I feel like, is that talking about B two C
brand like a Coca Cola, and you're really trying to
reach to their audience, whether it's gen Z or you know,
if it's you know, Visa or MasterCard or whoever it is.
(42:18):
Right Like, So there's that angle of your customer's customer.
But I think the traditional way that folks think of
B to B is really, you know, more on the
corporate side, where it's you know, you're selling software, you're
selling services to a company, and you know, this could
be everyone from Cisco to an ad tech company to
you know, Adobe, even though they have both a consumer side,
(42:39):
but they also have a business side. So I feel
like understanding B to B marketing, which really does not
have to be be to boring. I always talk about that.
I always view it as you know, H to H.
It's human to human, and I think people forget that.
Whether you're selling to a CTO, whether you're selling to
a CFO, you know, to a chief you know, human
relations officer, you really need to understand their business needs.
(43:02):
And it's a longer sales cycle for sure, but you
really need to think about thought leadership. I mean, you
have to do a lot of ABM, what we call
account based marketing, and we understand by account you know,
you kind of do all the segmentation. But at the
end of the day, Marisa like, these are just basic
marketing principles, right, and you have to understand the four p's.
(43:22):
You know, understand your price, understand your promotion, understand your place,
and what is your product that you are ultimately going
to get in front of them. And I feel like
those are universal. I mean, what do you.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Think, Well, you nailed my answer on the human to
human I suppose I've primarily been a B two C marketer,
but I have had experience in B to B, including
in a business like Lows, which was both. And to me,
the problem when you call it B to B is
it sounds so mechanical or so devoid of humanity, maybe boring,
(43:55):
or just you stop realizing that the end of the day,
it's people who who are still the customers. Just because
they're acting in a business capacity versus a personal capacity,
they're still wired as human beings, which means decisions are
both rational and irrational. They're both logical and emotional, and
people have fears and needs. All that is true whether
(44:19):
you're making a decision on behalf of your business and
that's what makes you a B to B customer, or
whether you're making a decision on behalf of yourself your family,
and that makes you know on the receiving end of
a B two C message. So for me, the bottom
line is philosophically, to answer Charlene's question, you got to
think about those underlying drivers and using psychology and emotion,
(44:41):
those are not dirty words. When it comes to B
to B marketing, the tactics, as in any different context,
may be a little different. You may be at trade shows,
you may be using trade media, you may be using
different tactics to deliver the message. But how you tell
the story should not be devoid of humans, because you
are still marketing to humans.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Cfo still have a heart. Last time I checked. They
still have to you know, put on pants, you know,
one leg at a time, like all of us. Right,
So I mean, I mean France, I have a saw
spot for them, you know that?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Kidding?
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I feel that, you know, when you look at all
these things, it's truly about just the principles of business, right,
I mean, look at your category, whether it's telecom, whether
it's automotive, whether it's financial services. Like when you are
in a B to B environment, I feel like really
understanding the business is critical because then you could go
in and really figure out, like what are going to
be the leavers? How do you do thought leadership? Like
(45:38):
everyone wants to feel well informed, they want to feel appreciated,
They want us to feel seen, especially so in a
B to B environment, because I think it's harder to
cut through the clutter. It's so much opportunity when you
have to do it right. So I think you're spot on. Well.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I hope that was a gold medal answer in the
spirit of our major topic today, and that is it
for now.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Well played, Well played.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Thank you for joining us. We hope you like what
you're continuing to hear from us, and to ensure you
keep hearing it, please subscribe to brand New wherever you
listen to your podcasts, and if you want one of
your questions answered, just tell us what's on your mind
by emailing us at ideas at brandshnew dot com and
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Look for us wherever you are across the socials, and
please join us next time on Brand New
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