July 2, 2024 • 48 mins
If you think you’ve heard all the definitive recaps of the Cannes Lions, put that thought aside and join Marisa and Steven as they talk to the person who is the Chairman of it all: Philip Thomas. Just some of what will interest and likely surprise you (in a conversation intended at least as much for those who did NOT attend as for those who did):
- What the real lead story of the festival was (which barely made a headline)
- The true mission of the Cannes Lions, that marketers should really appreciate
- Why “AI” was all over Cannes - except for in the jury room
- What Russia’s invasion of Ukraine taught about what keeps some people from going to the Cannes Lions
- The weirdest thing that happened all week (it involves Elon)
And … what did Phil, Marisa and Steven think was Cool or Cringe from it all? Tune in and share your thoughts back!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, and thanks for joining us on brand New from
the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I'm Stephen wolf Baneda. Oh shure, Marissa, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
See I've gotten you to switch to Well, of course
it's Trey appropriate because we have just come back from
the Camlians in can France. We've also both been traveling afterwards,
which I know is kind of a recurring theme. But
the cool thing is we were able to both pair
(00:42):
some personal family time on the heels of being able
to be in Europe for this incredible work experience. And
I think that speaks to what you and I both
value so dearly as having these incredible moments of connection
in our industry with the people and the ideas that
stimulate us and inspire us, but then also infusing time
for family. And this was a big trip for me
(01:03):
and my family. They'd never come and met me out
here for something like this, and it's probably our last
big trip before the official empty nesting again. The second
one goes to college.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And it was great, But how amazing because you now
have a daughter that's actually in the industry. She's one
of our active listeners certainly she's, you know, kind of
up and coming in the business, and I mean, what
a real treat to have her kind of experience this
and then certainly get the personal time as well.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
It was great and you did the same thing in
terms of a little couple time afterwards.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah. Well, Nury and I we after France, we went
to Portugal and we were actually celebrating our anniversary, our
wedding anniversary. A little bit early at the anniversary thank you.
You know, you need to take time to recognize your partner.
She enables so much both personally and professionally. But I
don't subscribe to the whole idea of separating your professional
life and your personal life. I think you need to
(01:57):
integrate it again, you know, I do. We believe in
this whole guy philosophy, you know, to kind of really
understand what is your purpose, and I think it doesn't
necessarily work. It's not constructive to actually separate personal and
professional I think they need to be integrated.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, I mean, you know, I agree with that from
like the founding of Executive Moms, and I actually got
to talk about that at a panel. It was the
last panel I did at the Equality Lounge. Which is
from the female quotion, and I love that it was
about taking you know, top women speaking about what is
inspiring them personally and professionally, those two together and very
(02:31):
much that theme of it not being these two distinct concepts.
It's just nice to hear that continue to be echoed
because emerging leaders need to know that too.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, and you get to be your authentic self. I
know it's you know, certainly played. You know, everyone talks
about authenticity, but I feel like when you're able to
do that, you just have so much more peace of mind.
And again, my kids are still young, so ultimately when
they're a little bit older, I do want them to
come and just get exposed and just learn. And again
it's very part of this community and it's really special
to have our guests speaker this week is someone that
(03:03):
really I think can give us this incredible grounding of
what we just experienced at Can Lions. And for those
of you that don't know Phil Thomas, he's actually the
CEO of Essential. Essential is actually the company. It's a
British UK listed public company that actually owns Can Lions
and so he was the CEO of the Lions Festival
for ten years from twenty oh six to sixteen, and
(03:25):
he's now the chairman of can Lyons. So I feel like,
what better perspective someone that has seen it all the
way it's grown this festival. For me, it's taken on
this increased importance. I mean, I've been coming since twenty
ten RSA, and I feel that it's only grown in
it not just its stature, and certainly there's all the events,
but for me, it's really this community being grounded in culture,
(03:47):
in the connections, and it's just been more important than
ever that we really focus on creativity.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I love that, and I feel like this is an
opportunity to have a post can discussion that can separate
some of the mystique and you know, the sort of
trappings that people see the facade of that which is incredible,
no kidding, from the real why. And I'm excited to
(04:13):
kind of get into it with Bill and just talk
about it in a way that I think, as you said,
going right to the ultimate source, about how it's changed,
why it matters actually more today than ever before, and
what we can all learn from it, whether we were
there or not.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, it's interesting, there's almost two brands. There's the brand
of Can the actual place, the experience, and that's the
rose and that's the closet and all that stuff. And
then there's ken Lions, and I think people they kind
of really intermingle the two. But ken Lyons, I think,
really means something different for marketers, for brands. And I
(04:46):
was just truly surprised at how many marketers showed up
this year. They came in force. They were kind of,
you know, dozen deep or more, and I think there's
a reason why they're coming because everyone is trying to
figure out the creativity is really the unlocked for busines growth.
And it sounds maybe cliche, and maybe CEOs and CFOs
don't necessarily believe that or get that, but you really
(05:07):
need to be creative more than ever in this kind
of AI driven era.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Totally agree. The ideas are still throwing my head. I
know there's going to be more to cover than we
possibly can. But therefore, without further ado, let's bring on
our friend Phil Thomas.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Who is truly the emissary, the ambassador for all things Can,
Lions and creativity. And welcome Phil.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Thank you very much, Stephen, very very happy to be here.
I'm Marie. Nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It's great to see you too. And you know, given
that you're CEO of Essential, which is the parent of
Can and the chair of the Caro Lions, we thought
it was essential that we have you on and make
this this sort of ultimate conversation in the aftermath of
what felt like one of, if not the best Can
Lions ever. So, you know, we know people listening, There'll
(05:57):
be some who were there and many who weren't. And
so I think the purpose of this episode is really
talk about what was through your lens in particular, and
then our lens as marketers, attendees, media side. What made
it really important, what makes it really important, and what
are the big lessons that we can take away. So
I don't know, you want to just kick it off there,
(06:19):
like why does this matter? And what do you think
is the essence of how it's changed and why it
matters more today potentially than even before.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, it's interesting because this is my eighteenth CAN sixteenth
if you take out the two years that we didn't
do it because of COVID, but eighteen years I've been
involved and it has evolved in that time really from
a creative effectively a creative celebration of wonderful work into
what it is now and every year, to be honest
with you, people leave and say that was the best
(06:50):
year ever, because people actually forget how much they how
much they enjoy it, and how much they get out
of it. But the overwhelming us if that's a word
of the response this year, and also my own feeling
actually having been involved so long, I do think it
was the best ever this year for lots and lots
(07:10):
of different reasons.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What are some of the reasons.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
It was partly because we're one hundercent back from COVID, right,
so there was a little bit of tentative feeling after COVID.
I think everybody's back, But I think more importantly, it
felt like it was the realization of something that we
wanted to achieve right at the beginning, which was to
make this a culturally important event. When Essential brought the
(07:33):
business back in two thousand and six, it was a
very inward looking event for the advertising creative industry really,
and we thought at the time, you know, maybe we
could make this culturally resonant. And I think that's what
happened this year because just about every kind of industry
was there musicians, sport, film was there, all the platforms
(07:55):
of course, and the creators, so kind of it felt
like culture. There are a couple of things still missing
in a fashion fashion for instance, it doesn't really show
up to Lions, but overall it felt like a cultural
moment as well as everything else that the festival brings you.
And I think that's maybe what people felt when they
were there this year.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
And it's so interesting that you say the whole focus
on culture. It's obviously a passion point for me from Marissa,
because I think, you know, culture drives consumer behavior. But
take a step back, I mean, what really is the
mission of can Lyons when you think about you know,
all the reasons why people are coming, but like, what
really is the mission from your advantage point?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
There are many many layers, but if we strip it
right right back, we really exist to give marketers the
tools to fight for investment in marketing in general, but
creative marketing in particular. Now, I think if most people said,
you know, what do you think Essential does? What does
(08:55):
can Lions do? They so well to put on an
event in can and it's a big jamboree and it's this,
it's that, But actually the whole purpose of what we do,
the real essence of what we do. It was actually
summed up really really amazing. This guy I met on
the very first night. We were having a drinks for
the jury, and we welcome the jury every year, and
there was a CMO on one of our juries of
(09:17):
a very large, multi billion dollar household name organization. And
he actually played it back to me in the most
amazing way because he said, I don't think you run
an award show. I think what you do for me anyway,
is you give me a gift each year. So the winners,
not me, not the festival, that the winners of the
(09:40):
Lions to me are a gift every year, and it's
a gift I take. I open it very gently, and
it's a gift to go to my CFO and argue
for investment in creative marketing because the work shows what
can be done and how it can drive businesses forward.
Interesting when you at the festival and it's so much happening,
(10:03):
and there's platforms and there's parties and there's everything else,
and there's drone shows, it's quite useful to just strip
it back and think, actually, what the hell are we
all doing? Here. Well, that's what we're doing. We're trying
to prove the value of creative marketing.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I love that framing, Phil, because we've talked and the
industry has been criticized for seeming just two self congratulatory
at times and in love with work that is for ourselves,
and I've always thought that was both valid and not
valid in the sense that most of us who are
successful practitioners, be it on the agency side, the client side,
(10:39):
the media side, are all pretty focused on driving results
and maybe we have a little bit of a branding
problem as a community on a few levels, including that one.
So that's what it does feel like to me, whether
it's literally through seeing the work that's rewarded or just
being in the moment of these deep conversations and multi
dimensional conversations, you come back feeling inspired, and I think
(11:01):
the hardest part there have been some funny cartoon sort
of spoofing it. You come back like full of that
and then is it a womp womp when you're back
on the Yeah, just make the headline bigger or you
know that kind of thing that we all really encounter
in real life, the bigger, always take the logo bigger,
that's actually what I meant with attribution to the market
toonists who always I find amusing and calling these things
(11:22):
in real life. But yeah, I love that, Phil, And
I think putting creativity at the core as the route
to effectiveness something I so deeply believe, and I have been
talking a lot about that, and so maybe a good
place to take the conversation is Okay, so you now
see it all across this, what's your takeaway and what
should be our collective takeaway on where you think creativity
(11:43):
is going after a week of seeing the right work,
that the best work around the world, but also all
the conversations about tech and disruption and all like, how
is it synthesizing in your head? Where is it going?
What will this look like in a few years.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Well, I think the coming together of effectiveness and creativity
it is so good for the industry because, frankly, for
many years, even when I was running it out so
I was CEO for ten years, I've been chaired for
a few years, and when I was running it, I
think we could be criticized for saying, you're not bringing
effectiveness into this conversation enough. You know, creativity is an
(12:18):
end in itself, and looking back, I wish we'd changed
a bit faster, but nothing gets in the way of
what we're trying to do here, which is to constantly
prove the value of creativity in marketing and the ultimate
effectiveness and therefore the outcomes, whether that's business outcomes or
indeed outcomes for other organizations like charities or or the
(12:39):
un or whoever it is that's using creativity. So we
partner with a lot of different organizations, marketing organizations, research organizations.
We even bought a platform called Walk which is entirely
devoted to effectiveness, so that we could try and link
the two things, effectiveness and creativity. And ultimately, if you
(13:01):
look at what's happening with the Lion winners at the moment,
they are becoming more and more relevant every year to
professional organizations. You know, the winners tend to be brands
you've heard of, or you know, real work in the
real world, and the execution is less important than the
actual measurement of the outcome of the creativity. So this
(13:24):
year we thought there would be a huge pivot towards AI.
We had a section in the entry form that you
had to fill in was AI used in this particular
piece of work, and actually it hardly showed up. Tor Myron,
who is the film jury president, VP of Marketing at Apple,
as everybody knows, he was actually asked at the press conference,
(13:44):
did you talk about AI much in the jury room?
And he was genuinely stumped. He hadn't even thought about it,
and he said, actually, no, we didn't talk about it
at all. So I think that fundamental storytelling, the emotion,
the use of humor came through big time this year.
So it's all about the things you already know and
(14:06):
we all instinctively already know, which is, if you create
marketing that is entertaining and captivating and fun and a
great story, you are going to have more of breakthrough
than if you don't.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
You've mentioned technology and obviously creativity, and you know kind
of where it's going. But I'm curious. This is supposed
to be the International Festival of Creativity, and you and
I have spoken a lot about this film. Where do
you feel, you know, kind of maybe some of the pitfalls.
Do you feel like there's too much technology now being
represented at the festival. Do you feel that, you know,
maybe it's too dominated by American companies obviously American led
(14:46):
tech companies, of course, do you feel that we're truly
getting this global perspective on creativity?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So I suppose you could call it the Americanization of
can Lyons. And I stole that actually from a friend,
probably a mutual friend of our everybody. I think many
people know Paul Wilmington from Canvas.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Paul's a great friend and also a great ourself fan, smart.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Enough to come up with a phrase like the Americanization
of can Lions, and that is true. So when you
look at the participation, when you look at the winners
of the lions, when you look at the brands that come,
and when you especially when you look at the platforms
that digit the technology platforms that are there, very very
dominated by the US. So why why is that? Do
(15:30):
we think?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I think I think there are lots of reasons. Firstly,
of course, the US is by far the biggest market,
three times the nearest competitor when it comes to just
the scale of marketing and advertising spend, so it's going
to be bigger. I think there's a really big cultural issue,
which is and this is how I brief the juries
myself and Simon Cook, the CEO, wonderful, wonderful leader of
(15:53):
the business. How we brief the juries is we say
watch out, because we all get American cult, right. We've
been brought up with American culture. We've seen movies, we've
seen TV, we've heard the music. It doesn't matter where
you're from. You've got kind of an innate understanding of
American culture. And I say to them, you'll see work
from Cambodia, from Bangladesh, from Nigeria, from Peru, and you
(16:17):
have to step back one step to just give it
some oxygen so that you can let that piece of
work breathe a little bit. There's the cultural aspect, there's
the size of the US, and then of course there's
a fact that just about all the platforms, with a
couple of exceptions like Spotify, are basically out of the US.
So there's that push from the US into can lions.
(16:41):
But then it makes other parts of the world, it
makes it harder than them to break in. Frankly, so
if you look at the winners from Asia this year,
the number of lions from Asia this year dropped twenty
three percent. It was already quite low, and it dropped
another twenty three percent. Now they had some big winners
Singapore and of Grand Prix, etc. But it's harder to
(17:04):
maintain that internationalization when the US is so successful. I
would say dominant, but I think successful is actually the
word we're looking for.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
So then, is there anything from what you observed in
the international work? And I mean international as an American
saying that, So the non US work, recognizing you're not
in the US yourself, what can we learn from it?
Because we know there's a lot that other countries are
taking out of the US from what we just discussed,
the tech companies, the media companies, the work. What can
(17:34):
we learn from what one international or what was represented there.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Well, partly it's about budgets, So there are some amazing
pieces of work that had relatively small budgets. I think
the US is in an amazing position, such a dominant position,
And partly the reason for that is because I do
going back to our previous discussion, many many US marketers
innately believe in the power of creativity. Now when I
(17:59):
go to Asia, it is much harder to make those arguments,
especially in China and Japan Korea. These are arguments that
have not been one in that particular part of the world,
so partly it's our job to evangelize for that. It
is sad in a sense if you look at some
of the winners, so the media Young Lions winners for
those that don't know, we run and have done for
(18:21):
fifty years Young Lions competitions. People come from all over
the world, young people, and they have twenty four hours
to create something wonderful based on a brief they get
from a charity. And the media lines this year were
one by China, silver was one by Japan, and bronze
was one by Korea. So there's a hell of a
lot of talent there, but it's just a question of
(18:42):
just nurturing that talent and most importantly getting the clients
to believe in creativity absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I mean, I love you know the saying talent is everywhere.
It's just said opportunity isn't right, So same thing genius everywhere,
Opportunity is in. But you know, one of the things
in terms of you know, kind of opportunity and looking
at the work, I was own away at the number
of B to B companies at cand this year fell
in as a four time CMO for different B to
B tech companies. It's really almost striking to see how
(19:11):
many were there and you know how they were winning
awards as well. I mean, can you comment a little
bit about that, like why were there so many B
to B companies there this year?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Honestly, it is actually the story of the festival, I forget.
I mean, there's a lot of stories coming out. I
think personally, this is the story of the festival this year.
So we introduced B to B as a category last year,
a bit late maybe, apologies, Stephen, I think we're a
bit late on it. We should have introduced it some
years ago. We've been talking about it for years and years.
We introduced it last year.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
B to B doesn't mean be to boring, right, it
could be creative.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
As we found out, and really surprisingly, genuinely surprisingly, it
exploded across the whole festival this year. Now, Titanium sounds
like and is the ultimate lion to win. The Titanium
Lions of the hardest to win. We only give three
or four out, four or five out maybe each year.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
And again three or four out of how many you.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Know, out of twenty seven thousand entries, and you know
it's hard to win a Titaning lion.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, I mean again, I was just trying to provide
that scale. I mean, these aren't something where you know,
it's like, yeah, there's so many entries, yeah, twenty seven
thousand entries globally.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
So it's very, very, very hard, and Titanium is particularly
hard because it's about genuine breakthrough thinking. It was designed
to be nothing across the festival could win this. This
is so special and amazingly, fifty percent of the winners
in Titanium this year were for B to B companies
and we actually saw that across the whole festival. So
(20:43):
B to B has really exploded in the most amazing way.
Now we've been plugging away for a while with partners
like LinkedIn, who were very passionate about this subject, as
you know, but to see it explode across I think
it's a huge story for anybody working in B to
B marketing to be shown the proof that, as you say,
(21:04):
it's not be to boring, you can do the most
amazing work.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And that I feel like tease up to us. Another
vector two, why this festival has truly become the must attend,
the must go to. I mean, I think it's certainly
much more significant for me personally, you know, than cees
or any other things. Like there's a reason it's not
just south of France. There's something about this festival and
everyone there. I mean, Marissa, like, how do you view this?
(21:29):
You know, you being you know, kind of the CMO
that you are with the big brands like and you
know for the folks that you know can't make it.
I mean, like, how do you view this? You know
from your consumer marketing background?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I mean I have not gone every year, and when
I haven't gone, I've really missed it. And when I
come back, it's exactly what you said, Phil. For me,
it's like every year becomes your new favorite because you
don't really forget how great it was. But when you
come back and there is a little bit of the
fantasy of it that we sort of can't help ourselves
(22:02):
but populate into our Instagram feeds and whatnot. I mean,
the parties and the setting and all that, the overflowing rose.
But it is really just the environment to enable this
unbelievable convocation of I think you said it perfectly, of culture.
That's where it does feel even bigger than It's not
(22:22):
just about advertising. It is about the deal makers, the
confluence of partners and peers and discussions and then people
that inspire you. And it's like this most concentrated juice
that you can't really get anywhere else. The trade off
(22:42):
and where I think whether you feel fomo or conflict
is not everyone can attend, and it's expensive to attend,
if we're being really candid about it, And a lot
of people do attend books up that whole area. So
what do you think about that? Who should attend? And
is it just about you know, the companies that are
(23:03):
willing to invest. I mean, what if you're I mean,
I know there's we talked about the young lions, but
what if you're director of marketing. You're not going to
be the priority pass that in a big company. Or
what if you're now an independent consultant, or what if
you're a rising copywriter an agency. What's the way to
think about this? Or is it just for the biggest
(23:24):
people that can write the check to go the biggest.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Checks the biggest checks. This is a really big subject.
There are a number of different elements to it. Firstly,
you've got to get to the south of France. Depending
on where you live, that can be very expensive. Right
then you go to stay in the south of France,
that can be very expensive. It doesn't have to be by.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
The way, it doesn't have to be but right.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
And then of course there's the cost of coming to
the festival itself. Historically we always thought, well, it's the
barrier is going to be the flight and the hotel
and the costs. It's not going to necessarily be our
delegate pass. We've found something very very interesting when Russia
invaded Ukraine, because what we did for Ukraine was we
(24:05):
said this year that was twenty twenty twenty two, if
you're a Ukrainian you can come to Canlons for free.
I expected there to be very little change in the
number of Ukrainians who came, because in my head it
was because it was so expensive to get to but
actually it went up by ten times. What that then
made the team thing led by Simon Simon Cook, they
(24:28):
thought well, how can we try to help other people
get to the festival easier? So they ring fenced one
and a half million euros worth of delegate passes for
underrepresented groups. And that could mean if you're underrepresented in
terms of where you're coming from or the demographic you're
in or your disability or whatever it might be, and
(24:51):
so you apply, you had to apply, and then you've
got free a free pass, and that one point five
million enabled hundreds of people to come to the festival
who when he couldn't do and that was oversubscribed by
a factor of fifty as you can probably imagine. So
when we add that to some of the other programs
(25:11):
that we do, we're trying to make it more accessible
to come, but it is difficult because of those extraneous costs.
So there are other ways you can get what you
need out of the festival. We have a digital pass
that's just a few hundred dollars so that you can
get to see everything that happened. But perhaps more importantly,
you can still get the outtakes because, as you said,
(25:34):
social media is a blizzard of outtakes. There are many
papers written, there are many reports, there are many video
summaries of what happened. You can look at the work
it's available to look at, you can see who won,
you can study it. So if you're passionate about the subject,
yes you'll have a bit of fomo about not being
to the festival, but you can actually get a huge
(25:54):
number of learnings out of it just because of technology
and the availability of it.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Absolutely. I mean I think Darthan Milden was giving you know,
like daily updates about like what is schedule. It's like
every day, you know, sharing his meetings and where he
was going to go, and talk about the work and
what he's doing our rockets. So you know, I do
feel that, you know, there's ways to get informed, but
to your point, and I think it's just like I've
seen it. I mean I've been coming since I think
twenty ten, so you know, to see the increase in
(26:22):
whether it's Black, Hispanic, you know, certainly Asian, LGBTQ, Like,
I feel like seeing these underrepresented communities really show up,
not in force yet, but you're starting to see it.
I think it really is a step in the right direction.
And I don't think enough people actually know about how
you are making those passes available. So hopefully this is
a jumping off point. We could certainly amplify that, but
(26:44):
I do feel that it is critical to have these
communities represented, especially as this really moves into the area
of culture, right because defining culture, you're seeing it come
from so many communities. I mean literally, now that'd be
so going to be young. I mean, we spoke about
this field. We've been trying to do something for years
together and we find we did it this year. And
I believe we brought the first Latin artists, you know,
(27:04):
like a musician who can to perform, and that was
Rau Alejandro, who's a huge global recatone star. But like,
we haven't really had that kind of representation, so it works.
I had to see that really happen more in force.
But you know, the culture aspect, do you feel that
is something where you know, you mentioned some of the
folks that haven't been there. Fashion you know is you
know on the radar, you know, some other groups. But
(27:25):
talk a little bit about sports, because when you think
about culture, I can't think of something that is more,
you know, kind of a driving force in culture today
than sports and specifically women's sports. And when you see
what was happening at CAN this year, like it was
just mind blowing to see so many athletes there CA.
Can you just talk a little bit about that and
of course our you know, favorite friends over at FIFA
(27:47):
you know shut up for the first time as well.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, I think it's worth just pausing for a second.
And just acknowledging a reality of we own the festival.
I've been running the festival now in it, but it's
run by our business and we get quite a bit
of praise for the growth of it. We also get
lots of criticism for various things as well, but we
get but it's really worth acknowledging that without partners, none
(28:11):
of this would happen. Right, So let me give you
a few examples of that. In about twenty twelve, I
was sitting in my office in the palais and can
and my assistant said, there's a guy down, says I
want to talk to you, this guy called Steve Stout.
I had no idea who he was. I happened to
have ten minutes. I said, okay, let him in. Steve
(28:33):
comes in. So Steve Stout is.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
A legend in hip hop and marketing and he has
his own agency. Translation, I mean he's a legend y.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, he's a legend. I, being stupid, didn't know who
he was at the time. Steve walks in says, Phil,
this is great. You've got no culture here, there's no
black culture, there's no music. I'm going to help you
do that. He then helped us do that. I won't
go into the details, but he was in massive help
to that. A woman called Adrianne Smith. She was walking
along the Cuasette one year, about twenty seventeen. She looked around,
(29:06):
she said, there isn't a single person that looks like me.
You know, she's from Harlem, she's a Black American. There's
nobody looks like me. This is crazy. She single handedly
created the Inkwell Beach, which is a beach for you know,
largely for the black community. And she takes so much,
so much credit for bringing this. You guys, you mentioned
(29:27):
we've been battling away on this Hispanic thing for years.
We finally got a breakthrough, but we couldn't possibly have
done it without your support and lots of other people's
support as well. So I think it's worth mentioning that.
And sport's another good example. Right. So we've had Manchester
United Con, we've had sport before, but really it was
the arrival of again to name names, it was Stagwell
(29:50):
who said we want to bring sport in a big way.
I think they admitted to me this year they didn't
have any particular right to own sport. They just said,
no one else seems to be owning it very the
smart though.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Possession is nine tenths of the law, and they definitely
possessed it.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And they created Sport Beach, which was amazing, perfinitely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I mean it's like who owns what? Well, nobody seems
to own sport. And then FIFA literally saw Staggrell Beach
last year and they just said we've got to be
here as well. So the sport then starts to snowball.
But again it's partners, it's other people bringing it to
the festival. It adds so much and without them it
wouldn't be anything.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
That's so great, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Phil I said on my own LinkedIn post of takeaways
that because there's so much happening at once, when you
try to distill it the experience and lots of people
were writing kind of their summer, I feel like it
inherently has to be a personal take because everyone's experience
is different in a way unique and that's the hard
part of it and the beauty of it. At the
(30:52):
same time. I think we're trying to get to is like, Okay,
you come back and you feel this inspiration if you
are there or if you commit as you say, at
and study it, you can be filled with inspiration even
if you weren't a physical attendee. How do you translate
it back in the boardroom. It's a very complicated question,
I know, and not a simple answer. But if the
(31:12):
purpose is effectiveness, sorry you know, I'm just saying, if
the purpose is effectiveness, how are you seeing people really
translate it back to the CEO, cfo's board chairman. We're
talking a lot about that this season.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
In a sense, it's it's not something that's ever going
to be fixed in the boardroom. In fact, I think
being a CMO or a creative in an agency is
probably the hardest thing to prove efficacy. And the problem
is you are in a battle with people who can
prove efficacy very very well. So you've got CFO, you've
(31:46):
got the CTO, you've got the head of sales, You've
got all sorts of people who are competing with you
for investment, and damn them, they can prove the dollars
very very easily, and it's very hard if your CMO.
We work with clients, brands, many many global brands on
advisory and consultancy programs, sometimes lasting four or five years
(32:10):
to help them with the cultural and creative transformation that
they need within their organizations. And we've worked with some
very very large organizations around that. Because it is hard
and it is long. However, I think there are two
parts of it. The first part is actually acknowledging and
understanding what great creativity is, and it is remarkably difficult
(32:32):
to boil it down. What I've found over the years
so interesting is if you're in a jewelry room, which
I try and spend as much time as I can,
there's a herd feeling that they kind of just know
what's great. And then when you see the winners, I mean,
I just recommend people just pick a category, pick the
film category from this year, have a look at the winners.
They are absolutely incredible. So it's a question firstly of
(32:55):
I think acknowledging and understanding and spending time looking at
the why do this win? Why is this literally the
greatest film of the last twelve months according to the jury,
and spending time in that, and then you can start
to understand, well, what does great creativity even look like,
because that's quite hard to start with. And then the
(33:15):
second part of it is there is increasingly more and
more evidence of the link between creativity and effectiveness. There
are so many studies of the efi's winners versus the
lions winners. There are independent studies of the share price
and the stock price of lion winning companies versus non
line win companies. There is a lot of evidence out there. Now,
(33:38):
sometimes you've got to gather it together yourself. But I
do think that is there for people to use if
they if they need to, and by god, I think
they generally do need to.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It sounds like you definitely are helping folks because they
have these challenges and you know, making the you know,
either the case you know back in the border. I
just think it's so critical to really help make the
business case because that is the theme. I mean everywhere
we were, you know, and Mercy and I we tried
to tag team together at lots of different places, you know,
from Forbes to you know, other places. You know. It
(34:08):
really was talking about the impact on the business and
how every single brand. There were so many brands, new
brands there and they were there in force. It was
shocked at how many had there were rowing you know,
five ten, you know, almost like two dozen deep in
some cases. So you see more folks coming. But they
really wanted to understand how to break through of creativity.
And I think that's the business argument because every CEO,
(34:31):
every CFO, they're trying to figure out how can we
break through and you need to be creative to do it.
So it's kind of like cutting off your nose in
spite of your face, Like you say you want this stuff,
but you're not going to make the investment. I find that,
you know, a little bit hypocritical, but you know, I
want to kind of maybe And then a fun last
question before we do Cooler Cringe. Marissa, Phil You've seen
(34:52):
so much, You've you know, experienced, you know, all these
amazing things, but I'd love to ask, like, what was
the weirdest thing that you would experiencing Candice here, because
it feels like, you know, there's so much here in
its madness. Well, what was the weirdest thing that you
experienced this year?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
So I went backstage. Mark Reid is the CEO of WPP,
was interviewing Elon Musk and in the palais. In the
bowels of the palais, they have the green rooms. They
call them the loges, the lodges, and I made my
way to the green room, and outside the green room,
I counted there were thirteen extremely large security guys. So
(35:31):
there were our security, the Palais Security, WPP Security, and
X Security. So were thirteen enormous blokes. So I walked
in and sitting in the room there was Kimball Musk
who had a cowboy hound, Elon Musk, and on his
knee was X that's his son, and Mark Reid. So
(35:56):
I went in and I was talking to them and
it was all very jolly, and suddenly, out of nowhere,
a small boy walked into the room, walked straight up
to Elon Musk and said, mister Musk, I'm so so
delighted to meet you. I'm so honored to meet you.
I'm such a big fan. And we just everybody was
(36:16):
looking at each other, including all the PR people, all
the assistants, me, Mark Reid, Elon Musk. Nobody knew who
this kid was, like nine year old kid with a
bow tie on, white shirt, bow tie glasses, talking to
Elon Musk saying why did you call it X. Elon
Musk said, do you mean my platform or do you
mean my son? And it was just surreal. Nobody knew
(36:40):
who this kid was and then he goes, thank you,
it's so wonderful to meet you, and he walked out
of the green room. I said to my guys, who
the hell was that? And they said, that was an
Albanian weather forecaster who was on the previous seminar stage
talking with the UN about climate change. And he's a
very very famous TV star in Albania at nine years old.
(37:05):
You should google him. Is amazing. And he just left
the building. Everybody was just astonished. And I went outside
and I said to these guys, I said, thirteen of.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
You just a security right there.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, And they said he was just a little boy.
He was just a little boy. Well, fair enough us suppose.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
But he did have a bow tie. To his credit,
he had a bow tie.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I mean, if that isn't an iconic Can story, I
don't know what it is. And that touches all the chords.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Phil.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yeah, well, we'd like to play our game of cooler
Cringe with you.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Are you ready? This will be our special Can edition?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Of course I am ready, all.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right, and now I feel like you've teed it up
and it would be an impossibility not to start here,
So cooler Cringe, Phil Elon musk Oh.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
It's cool. Obviously, both ourselves and WPP had a massive
discussion about that. Should we give him a platform?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Blah.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
We just felt, look, he's probably the most interesting person.
You don't have to agree with everything he says, but
he is the very, very interesting individual. And the last
time he talked to the industry he told them to
f off. So let's hear what he's come to say.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Off. He walked it back a little but yeah, all right, Steve,
and you want to take the next one?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, all right, cor cringe. We have all different types
that come to Can lyons, but I've seen an incredible
influx of finance people, so investment Becker's venture capitalist Are
these finance people? I can lions? Core cringe.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Oh come on, I mean, the more the merrier, the
more the merrier. But listen, I'll just tell you a
quick anecdote. When the vcs first started coming, it was
about ten years ago, and I met probably the first
venture capitalist ever to come to Can and he said
to me, this is the most amazing place. I'm going
to keep it a secret forever. I don't want any
(39:06):
of my competitors to know about it, etc. And I
said to h I'm so glad you've enjoyed it. I said,
have you had a chance to go to any of
the award shows at all? And he said to me,
no word of a lie. You have award shows.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
And that's so cooler.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
That's a cringe. Definitely a little bit.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Of an interesting one this year. Obviously, of the many
companies that were present, TikTok was one of them. So
here's the cooler cringe part of the question. TikTok not
talking about the potential existential threat to the future of
TikTok at can cooler? Cringe? Smarter? Not so smart?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I can't be sure they didn't. I mean, maybe they
did in private. I'm sure they probably did in private,
but I'm not sure what choice they really have they
i mean, you know, they're trying to their business and
presumably hoping that it's going to work out okay for them.
So I'm kind of down the middle with that one. Really.
I think it would have been very hard for them
to really address that. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
You know?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
One of the favorite phrases I ever got from a CEO,
and I'll attribute this to Greg Creed, the CEO of
Young When I was at Taco Bell was I'll paraphrase.
It was something along the lines of you've got to
sort of speak the truth and then give hope. So
I like that mantra when things are tough. I mean,
it's like when there's that eight hundred pound grill in
the room. I think just pretending it's not there is uncomfortable.
(40:36):
And I think there were a few moments it'd be
given some things in the Media World Company and we
don't have to name them all, where that eight hundred
pound gorilla felt present amidst the rose. I think it's
it's a little bit of a cringe. Like I think
you talk about it and then you say, but here's
why we believe in the power what we're doing, and
(40:58):
here's how we're addressing it. I think ignoreing it is
a little awkward, but it's a tough situation, no question.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
All right, last core Crint all right, we got to
say it, Ai core Crint film. Come on, I'm sure
you're you're all ail out after after the week.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
But cor Crint Ai was last year was absolute talk
of the town. It was Ai Bingo. I know, you
guys player marketing. It was Ai Bingo. This year it
did feel like people just accepted it as part of
the part of the reality. Elon Musk maybe threw a
bit of a hand grenade into the audience when he said, basically,
(41:34):
most of you are going to be out of a job.
It's just slightly slightly concerning.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Is that this year's f off right?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
That was the new version of it.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
But I actually I've got a theory about AI if
we've got time really quickly. So in terms of events,
you know, you talked about Lions being a bit of
a must go to and there are lots of other events.
Events have bounced back a lot since COVID. So here's
my theory on events. I think we're going to have
the opportunity every day a thousand times to either interact
with AI or with a human, and most of the
(42:04):
time we are going to choose AI because AI doesn't
get tired, it's very rarely wrong, it's getting more and
more accurate, it doesn't answer back to you. It's going
to be you know, it's going to do a lot
of great things, and a lot of the time we're
going to choose AI to interact. I think what that
means is human interaction is going to go weigh up
the value chain, and we are going to value every
(42:25):
single human interaction so much more because it's going to
be rarer. And yes it might be it might be flawed.
Human beings are flawed, but I think that means coming
together is going to be more important than ever.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Well. I love juxtaposing that thought with your earlier statement
that it wasn't even a big topic of conversation in
the awards themselves, because the essence of creativity, I do
think is still fundamentally human human.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, nicely put human.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
But if gen Z doesn't even you know, talk on
the phone, you know they're just going to you know,
text message or something. It definitely sounds like the premium
on human interaction is going to be continuing to skyrocket.
And that sounds like it's a great way to end
our chat, because that is truly making can Lyons, this
incredible festival, this incredible convening, this incredible community that much
(43:19):
more important. So thank you, Phil for so much, for
all that you do for the industry, for sorry being
the champion of the festival and creativity, and for being
with us. We know that you have had an incredible,
extraordinary week. But the truth of the matter is I
feel more inspired than ever coming out of this week,
and I immerse it does too. So thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Thank you very much for inviting me. Thank you great
to see you again.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
All right, and now it is time for what's on
your minds? Steven, you want to read us The question
of this episode.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Question comes from Josh, and Josh asked, with all of
the buzz around can Lions, what really is the value
of a tending this type of festival? When you can
read all these things online and you have all the recaps,
why should you really be focused on a festival like this?
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Merisa, Well, I think this question is a fair question.
It's a perennial question, and it actually relates very much
to the conversation we just had with Phil in terms
of appreciating the return on creativity. And I think the
other part is the return on connection. Is for me,
here's a way to frame it that maybe a finance
person would like. It's actually an efficiency play, maybe a
(44:32):
little bit of an indulgent one, because you're flying all
the way to the south of France to have this
efficiency play happen. But there is no other convocation in
the world. Some things come a little close, like a
CS or I've never actually been to Davos. The possible
conference that we talked about is getting a little closer.
But this global convocation of everyone, and I think it
(44:52):
becoming even more about cultures we discussed. I mean, when
you think about some of the boldface names that were there,
it is just an unique opportunity as a marketer to
be able to learn, connect, share and get things done.
I mean, if you don't come back with a to
do list, you didn't do can write for me. That
(45:15):
is the process of taking notes, writing down ideas, and
having my follow ups which you're going to kick into
gear for real, probably more next week. So that's my
answer is it's unique. It's unique because of the learning, teaching, sharing,
connecting ideas and then how you get to like make
things happen there that you might never be able to
(45:36):
get done at all or certainly not this expeditiously.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
What about you if you think of the learnings that
you get just by reading something or you know, watching
tiktoks or doing whatever online, you know, that's one dimension
to it. I think it's really about asking the questions
when you actually see people. I mean, for me, the
best part is all of the in person communication. And
you know, I don't subscribe to call things networking, right,
(46:01):
I feel like that's such a dated term. I really
feel it's about human connection and when you see someone
that you don't know or you've read about, or you
go up to someone. I mean, it could be someone
like like kro Swisher. We saw her on the quasette
right barsa or you know, we saw her at an event.
You know, we went up to her and we spoke
to her, like okay, great. You know, then you actually
have real conversation with these folks and you ask them
a question directly, and it's just very different. So I
(46:23):
feel like the learnings from people like that, or you know,
just being in with different agency partners or different you know,
kind of creative agencies. You know obviously the media and
the tech companies. But I feel like it's reading between
the lines. It's actually when you see someone and you
bump into someone in the closet, or you're you're somewhere
at a festo. It doesn't have to be can Lions,
by the way. It could actually be you know, other events.
(46:43):
It could be a local event just going in and
having the courage to go and ask a question, and
that means you have to be prepared. You need to say, hey,
these are three things that I want to get out
of this experience, whatever event it is. But I think
you see all these events really coming back and force
people want to connect people in real life IRL matters,
and I feel like there's just this hunger for this
(47:06):
human connection and I can't say it any more passionately
than just being out there. Being with people is where
you're going to learn the most, where you're going to
grow the most. And I feel like that's something that
especially for anyone that's in the beginning of their career,
get out of your home, go into the office, go
to an event, just get out and connect with people.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
And it doesn't have to be all the way to
the South of France. You can practice that in whatever
capacity in which you're working and living professionally. But that's
the answer, and that's it for now. Thanks for joining us.
We hope you'll follow us at the Brand New Podcast
wherever you listen to your podcasts so you never miss
an episode. Connect with us on all of our social channels,
(47:46):
and join us next time for What's Brand new
Hello, and thanks for joining us on brand New from
the iHeart Podcast Network and Brand New Labs. I'm Marissa Thalberg.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I'm Stephen wolf Baneda. Oh shure, Marissa, how are you.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
See I've gotten you to switch to Well, of course
it's Trey appropriate because we have just come back from
the Camlians in can France. We've also both been traveling afterwards,
which I know is kind of a recurring theme. But
the cool thing is we were able to both pair
(00:42):
some personal family time on the heels of being able
to be in Europe for this incredible work experience. And
I think that speaks to what you and I both
value so dearly as having these incredible moments of connection
in our industry with the people and the ideas that
stimulate us and inspire us, but then also infusing time
for family. And this was a big trip for me
(01:03):
and my family. They'd never come and met me out
here for something like this, and it's probably our last
big trip before the official empty nesting again. The second
one goes to college.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And it was great, But how amazing because you now
have a daughter that's actually in the industry. She's one
of our active listeners certainly she's, you know, kind of
up and coming in the business, and I mean, what
a real treat to have her kind of experience this
and then certainly get the personal time as well.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
It was great and you did the same thing in
terms of a little couple time afterwards.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah. Well, Nury and I we after France, we went
to Portugal and we were actually celebrating our anniversary, our
wedding anniversary. A little bit early at the anniversary thank you.
You know, you need to take time to recognize your partner.
She enables so much both personally and professionally. But I
don't subscribe to the whole idea of separating your professional
life and your personal life. I think you need to
(01:57):
integrate it again, you know, I do. We believe in
this whole guy philosophy, you know, to kind of really
understand what is your purpose, and I think it doesn't
necessarily work. It's not constructive to actually separate personal and
professional I think they need to be integrated.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, I mean, you know, I agree with that from
like the founding of Executive Moms, and I actually got
to talk about that at a panel. It was the
last panel I did at the Equality Lounge. Which is
from the female quotion, and I love that it was
about taking you know, top women speaking about what is
inspiring them personally and professionally, those two together and very
(02:31):
much that theme of it not being these two distinct concepts.
It's just nice to hear that continue to be echoed
because emerging leaders need to know that too.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, and you get to be your authentic self. I
know it's you know, certainly played. You know, everyone talks
about authenticity, but I feel like when you're able to
do that, you just have so much more peace of mind.
And again, my kids are still young, so ultimately when
they're a little bit older, I do want them to
come and just get exposed and just learn. And again
it's very part of this community and it's really special
to have our guests speaker this week is someone that
(03:03):
really I think can give us this incredible grounding of
what we just experienced at Can Lions. And for those
of you that don't know Phil Thomas, he's actually the
CEO of Essential. Essential is actually the company. It's a
British UK listed public company that actually owns Can Lions
and so he was the CEO of the Lions Festival
for ten years from twenty oh six to sixteen, and
(03:25):
he's now the chairman of can Lyons. So I feel like,
what better perspective someone that has seen it all the
way it's grown this festival. For me, it's taken on
this increased importance. I mean, I've been coming since twenty
ten RSA, and I feel that it's only grown in
it not just its stature, and certainly there's all the events,
but for me, it's really this community being grounded in culture,
(03:47):
in the connections, and it's just been more important than
ever that we really focus on creativity.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I love that, and I feel like this is an
opportunity to have a post can discussion that can separate
some of the mystique and you know, the sort of
trappings that people see the facade of that which is incredible,
no kidding, from the real why. And I'm excited to
(04:13):
kind of get into it with Bill and just talk
about it in a way that I think, as you said,
going right to the ultimate source, about how it's changed,
why it matters actually more today than ever before, and
what we can all learn from it, whether we were
there or not.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, it's interesting, there's almost two brands. There's the brand
of Can the actual place, the experience, and that's the
rose and that's the closet and all that stuff. And
then there's ken Lions, and I think people they kind
of really intermingle the two. But ken Lyons, I think,
really means something different for marketers, for brands. And I
(04:46):
was just truly surprised at how many marketers showed up
this year. They came in force. They were kind of,
you know, dozen deep or more, and I think there's
a reason why they're coming because everyone is trying to
figure out the creativity is really the unlocked for busines growth.
And it sounds maybe cliche, and maybe CEOs and CFOs
don't necessarily believe that or get that, but you really
(05:07):
need to be creative more than ever in this kind
of AI driven era.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Totally agree. The ideas are still throwing my head. I
know there's going to be more to cover than we
possibly can. But therefore, without further ado, let's bring on
our friend Phil Thomas.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Who is truly the emissary, the ambassador for all things Can,
Lions and creativity. And welcome Phil.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Thank you very much, Stephen, very very happy to be here.
I'm Marie. Nice to see you.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
It's great to see you too. And you know, given
that you're CEO of Essential, which is the parent of
Can and the chair of the Caro Lions, we thought
it was essential that we have you on and make
this this sort of ultimate conversation in the aftermath of
what felt like one of, if not the best Can
Lions ever. So, you know, we know people listening, There'll
(05:57):
be some who were there and many who weren't. And
so I think the purpose of this episode is really
talk about what was through your lens in particular, and
then our lens as marketers, attendees, media side. What made
it really important, what makes it really important, and what
are the big lessons that we can take away. So
I don't know, you want to just kick it off there,
(06:19):
like why does this matter? And what do you think
is the essence of how it's changed and why it
matters more today potentially than even before.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, it's interesting because this is my eighteenth CAN sixteenth
if you take out the two years that we didn't
do it because of COVID, but eighteen years I've been
involved and it has evolved in that time really from
a creative effectively a creative celebration of wonderful work into
what it is now and every year, to be honest
with you, people leave and say that was the best
(06:50):
year ever, because people actually forget how much they how
much they enjoy it, and how much they get out
of it. But the overwhelming us if that's a word
of the response this year, and also my own feeling
actually having been involved so long, I do think it
was the best ever this year for lots and lots
(07:10):
of different reasons.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
What are some of the reasons.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
It was partly because we're one hundercent back from COVID, right,
so there was a little bit of tentative feeling after COVID.
I think everybody's back, But I think more importantly, it
felt like it was the realization of something that we
wanted to achieve right at the beginning, which was to
make this a culturally important event. When Essential brought the
(07:33):
business back in two thousand and six, it was a
very inward looking event for the advertising creative industry really,
and we thought at the time, you know, maybe we
could make this culturally resonant. And I think that's what
happened this year because just about every kind of industry
was there musicians, sport, film was there, all the platforms
(07:55):
of course, and the creators, so kind of it felt
like culture. There are a couple of things still missing
in a fashion fashion for instance, it doesn't really show
up to Lions, but overall it felt like a cultural
moment as well as everything else that the festival brings you.
And I think that's maybe what people felt when they
were there this year.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
And it's so interesting that you say the whole focus
on culture. It's obviously a passion point for me from Marissa,
because I think, you know, culture drives consumer behavior. But
take a step back, I mean, what really is the
mission of can Lyons when you think about you know,
all the reasons why people are coming, but like, what
really is the mission from your advantage point?
Speaker 3 (08:33):
There are many many layers, but if we strip it
right right back, we really exist to give marketers the
tools to fight for investment in marketing in general, but
creative marketing in particular. Now, I think if most people said,
you know, what do you think Essential does? What does
(08:55):
can Lions do? They so well to put on an
event in can and it's a big jamboree and it's this,
it's that, But actually the whole purpose of what we do,
the real essence of what we do. It was actually
summed up really really amazing. This guy I met on
the very first night. We were having a drinks for
the jury, and we welcome the jury every year, and
there was a CMO on one of our juries of
(09:17):
a very large, multi billion dollar household name organization. And
he actually played it back to me in the most
amazing way because he said, I don't think you run
an award show. I think what you do for me anyway,
is you give me a gift each year. So the winners,
not me, not the festival, that the winners of the
(09:40):
Lions to me are a gift every year, and it's
a gift I take. I open it very gently, and
it's a gift to go to my CFO and argue
for investment in creative marketing because the work shows what
can be done and how it can drive businesses forward.
Interesting when you at the festival and it's so much happening,
(10:03):
and there's platforms and there's parties and there's everything else,
and there's drone shows, it's quite useful to just strip
it back and think, actually, what the hell are we
all doing? Here. Well, that's what we're doing. We're trying
to prove the value of creative marketing.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I love that framing, Phil, because we've talked and the
industry has been criticized for seeming just two self congratulatory
at times and in love with work that is for ourselves,
and I've always thought that was both valid and not
valid in the sense that most of us who are
successful practitioners, be it on the agency side, the client side,
(10:39):
the media side, are all pretty focused on driving results
and maybe we have a little bit of a branding
problem as a community on a few levels, including that one.
So that's what it does feel like to me, whether
it's literally through seeing the work that's rewarded or just
being in the moment of these deep conversations and multi
dimensional conversations, you come back feeling inspired, and I think
(11:01):
the hardest part there have been some funny cartoon sort
of spoofing it. You come back like full of that
and then is it a womp womp when you're back
on the Yeah, just make the headline bigger or you
know that kind of thing that we all really encounter
in real life, the bigger, always take the logo bigger,
that's actually what I meant with attribution to the market
toonists who always I find amusing and calling these things
(11:22):
in real life. But yeah, I love that, Phil, And
I think putting creativity at the core as the route
to effectiveness something I so deeply believe, and I have been
talking a lot about that, and so maybe a good
place to take the conversation is Okay, so you now
see it all across this, what's your takeaway and what
should be our collective takeaway on where you think creativity
(11:43):
is going after a week of seeing the right work,
that the best work around the world, but also all
the conversations about tech and disruption and all like, how
is it synthesizing in your head? Where is it going?
What will this look like in a few years.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Well, I think the coming together of effectiveness and creativity
it is so good for the industry because, frankly, for
many years, even when I was running it out so
I was CEO for ten years, I've been chaired for
a few years, and when I was running it, I
think we could be criticized for saying, you're not bringing
effectiveness into this conversation enough. You know, creativity is an
(12:18):
end in itself, and looking back, I wish we'd changed
a bit faster, but nothing gets in the way of
what we're trying to do here, which is to constantly
prove the value of creativity in marketing and the ultimate
effectiveness and therefore the outcomes, whether that's business outcomes or
indeed outcomes for other organizations like charities or or the
(12:39):
un or whoever it is that's using creativity. So we
partner with a lot of different organizations, marketing organizations, research organizations.
We even bought a platform called Walk which is entirely
devoted to effectiveness, so that we could try and link
the two things, effectiveness and creativity. And ultimately, if you
(13:01):
look at what's happening with the Lion winners at the moment,
they are becoming more and more relevant every year to
professional organizations. You know, the winners tend to be brands
you've heard of, or you know, real work in the
real world, and the execution is less important than the
actual measurement of the outcome of the creativity. So this
(13:24):
year we thought there would be a huge pivot towards AI.
We had a section in the entry form that you
had to fill in was AI used in this particular
piece of work, and actually it hardly showed up. Tor Myron,
who is the film jury president, VP of Marketing at Apple,
as everybody knows, he was actually asked at the press conference,
(13:44):
did you talk about AI much in the jury room?
And he was genuinely stumped. He hadn't even thought about it,
and he said, actually, no, we didn't talk about it
at all. So I think that fundamental storytelling, the emotion,
the use of humor came through big time this year.
So it's all about the things you already know and
(14:06):
we all instinctively already know, which is, if you create
marketing that is entertaining and captivating and fun and a
great story, you are going to have more of breakthrough
than if you don't.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
You've mentioned technology and obviously creativity, and you know kind
of where it's going. But I'm curious. This is supposed
to be the International Festival of Creativity, and you and
I have spoken a lot about this film. Where do
you feel, you know, kind of maybe some of the pitfalls.
Do you feel like there's too much technology now being
represented at the festival. Do you feel that, you know,
maybe it's too dominated by American companies obviously American led
(14:46):
tech companies, of course, do you feel that we're truly
getting this global perspective on creativity?
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So I suppose you could call it the Americanization of
can Lyons. And I stole that actually from a friend,
probably a mutual friend of our everybody. I think many
people know Paul Wilmington from Canvas.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Paul's a great friend and also a great ourself fan, smart.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Enough to come up with a phrase like the Americanization
of can Lions, and that is true. So when you
look at the participation, when you look at the winners
of the lions, when you look at the brands that come,
and when you especially when you look at the platforms
that digit the technology platforms that are there, very very
dominated by the US. So why why is that? Do
(15:30):
we think?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Well?
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I think I think there are lots of reasons. Firstly,
of course, the US is by far the biggest market,
three times the nearest competitor when it comes to just
the scale of marketing and advertising spend, so it's going
to be bigger. I think there's a really big cultural issue,
which is and this is how I brief the juries
myself and Simon Cook, the CEO, wonderful, wonderful leader of
(15:53):
the business. How we brief the juries is we say
watch out, because we all get American cult, right. We've
been brought up with American culture. We've seen movies, we've
seen TV, we've heard the music. It doesn't matter where
you're from. You've got kind of an innate understanding of
American culture. And I say to them, you'll see work
from Cambodia, from Bangladesh, from Nigeria, from Peru, and you
(16:17):
have to step back one step to just give it
some oxygen so that you can let that piece of
work breathe a little bit. There's the cultural aspect, there's
the size of the US, and then of course there's
a fact that just about all the platforms, with a
couple of exceptions like Spotify, are basically out of the US.
So there's that push from the US into can lions.
(16:41):
But then it makes other parts of the world, it
makes it harder than them to break in. Frankly, so
if you look at the winners from Asia this year,
the number of lions from Asia this year dropped twenty
three percent. It was already quite low, and it dropped
another twenty three percent. Now they had some big winners
Singapore and of Grand Prix, etc. But it's harder to
(17:04):
maintain that internationalization when the US is so successful. I
would say dominant, but I think successful is actually the
word we're looking for.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
So then, is there anything from what you observed in
the international work? And I mean international as an American
saying that, So the non US work, recognizing you're not
in the US yourself, what can we learn from it?
Because we know there's a lot that other countries are
taking out of the US from what we just discussed,
the tech companies, the media companies, the work. What can
(17:34):
we learn from what one international or what was represented there.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Well, partly it's about budgets, So there are some amazing
pieces of work that had relatively small budgets. I think
the US is in an amazing position, such a dominant position,
And partly the reason for that is because I do
going back to our previous discussion, many many US marketers
innately believe in the power of creativity. Now when I
(17:59):
go to Asia, it is much harder to make those arguments,
especially in China and Japan Korea. These are arguments that
have not been one in that particular part of the world,
so partly it's our job to evangelize for that. It
is sad in a sense if you look at some
of the winners, so the media Young Lions winners for
those that don't know, we run and have done for
(18:21):
fifty years Young Lions competitions. People come from all over
the world, young people, and they have twenty four hours
to create something wonderful based on a brief they get
from a charity. And the media lines this year were
one by China, silver was one by Japan, and bronze
was one by Korea. So there's a hell of a
lot of talent there, but it's just a question of
(18:42):
just nurturing that talent and most importantly getting the clients
to believe in creativity absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I mean, I love you know the saying talent is everywhere.
It's just said opportunity isn't right, So same thing genius everywhere,
Opportunity is in. But you know, one of the things
in terms of you know, kind of opportunity and looking
at the work, I was own away at the number
of B to B companies at cand this year fell
in as a four time CMO for different B to
B tech companies. It's really almost striking to see how
(19:11):
many were there and you know how they were winning
awards as well. I mean, can you comment a little
bit about that, like why were there so many B
to B companies there this year?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Honestly, it is actually the story of the festival, I forget.
I mean, there's a lot of stories coming out. I
think personally, this is the story of the festival this year.
So we introduced B to B as a category last year,
a bit late maybe, apologies, Stephen, I think we're a
bit late on it. We should have introduced it some
years ago. We've been talking about it for years and years.
We introduced it last year.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
B to B doesn't mean be to boring, right, it
could be creative.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
As we found out, and really surprisingly, genuinely surprisingly, it
exploded across the whole festival this year. Now, Titanium sounds
like and is the ultimate lion to win. The Titanium
Lions of the hardest to win. We only give three
or four out, four or five out maybe each year.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
And again three or four out of how many you.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Know, out of twenty seven thousand entries, and you know
it's hard to win a Titaning lion.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah, I mean again, I was just trying to provide
that scale. I mean, these aren't something where you know,
it's like, yeah, there's so many entries, yeah, twenty seven
thousand entries globally.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
So it's very, very, very hard, and Titanium is particularly
hard because it's about genuine breakthrough thinking. It was designed
to be nothing across the festival could win this. This
is so special and amazingly, fifty percent of the winners
in Titanium this year were for B to B companies
and we actually saw that across the whole festival. So
(20:43):
B to B has really exploded in the most amazing way.
Now we've been plugging away for a while with partners
like LinkedIn, who were very passionate about this subject, as
you know, but to see it explode across I think
it's a huge story for anybody working in B to
B marketing to be shown the proof that, as you say,
(21:04):
it's not be to boring, you can do the most
amazing work.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And that I feel like tease up to us. Another
vector two, why this festival has truly become the must attend,
the must go to. I mean, I think it's certainly
much more significant for me personally, you know, than cees
or any other things. Like there's a reason it's not
just south of France. There's something about this festival and
everyone there. I mean, Marissa, like, how do you view this?
(21:29):
You know, you being you know, kind of the CMO
that you are with the big brands like and you
know for the folks that you know can't make it.
I mean, like, how do you view this? You know
from your consumer marketing background?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I mean I have not gone every year, and when
I haven't gone, I've really missed it. And when I
come back, it's exactly what you said, Phil. For me,
it's like every year becomes your new favorite because you
don't really forget how great it was. But when you
come back and there is a little bit of the
fantasy of it that we sort of can't help ourselves
(22:02):
but populate into our Instagram feeds and whatnot. I mean,
the parties and the setting and all that, the overflowing rose.
But it is really just the environment to enable this
unbelievable convocation of I think you said it perfectly, of culture.
That's where it does feel even bigger than It's not
(22:22):
just about advertising. It is about the deal makers, the
confluence of partners and peers and discussions and then people
that inspire you. And it's like this most concentrated juice
that you can't really get anywhere else. The trade off
(22:42):
and where I think whether you feel fomo or conflict
is not everyone can attend, and it's expensive to attend,
if we're being really candid about it, And a lot
of people do attend books up that whole area. So
what do you think about that? Who should attend? And
is it just about you know, the companies that are
(23:03):
willing to invest. I mean, what if you're I mean,
I know there's we talked about the young lions, but
what if you're director of marketing. You're not going to
be the priority pass that in a big company. Or
what if you're now an independent consultant, or what if
you're a rising copywriter an agency. What's the way to
think about this? Or is it just for the biggest
(23:24):
people that can write the check to go the biggest.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Checks the biggest checks. This is a really big subject.
There are a number of different elements to it. Firstly,
you've got to get to the south of France. Depending
on where you live, that can be very expensive. Right
then you go to stay in the south of France,
that can be very expensive. It doesn't have to be by.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
The way, it doesn't have to be but right.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
And then of course there's the cost of coming to
the festival itself. Historically we always thought, well, it's the
barrier is going to be the flight and the hotel
and the costs. It's not going to necessarily be our
delegate pass. We've found something very very interesting when Russia
invaded Ukraine, because what we did for Ukraine was we
(24:05):
said this year that was twenty twenty twenty two, if
you're a Ukrainian you can come to Canlons for free.
I expected there to be very little change in the
number of Ukrainians who came, because in my head it
was because it was so expensive to get to but
actually it went up by ten times. What that then
made the team thing led by Simon Simon Cook, they
(24:28):
thought well, how can we try to help other people
get to the festival easier? So they ring fenced one
and a half million euros worth of delegate passes for
underrepresented groups. And that could mean if you're underrepresented in
terms of where you're coming from or the demographic you're
in or your disability or whatever it might be, and
(24:51):
so you apply, you had to apply, and then you've
got free a free pass, and that one point five
million enabled hundreds of people to come to the festival
who when he couldn't do and that was oversubscribed by
a factor of fifty as you can probably imagine. So
when we add that to some of the other programs
(25:11):
that we do, we're trying to make it more accessible
to come, but it is difficult because of those extraneous costs.
So there are other ways you can get what you
need out of the festival. We have a digital pass
that's just a few hundred dollars so that you can
get to see everything that happened. But perhaps more importantly,
you can still get the outtakes because, as you said,
(25:34):
social media is a blizzard of outtakes. There are many
papers written, there are many reports, there are many video
summaries of what happened. You can look at the work
it's available to look at, you can see who won,
you can study it. So if you're passionate about the subject,
yes you'll have a bit of fomo about not being
to the festival, but you can actually get a huge
(25:54):
number of learnings out of it just because of technology
and the availability of it.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Absolutely. I mean I think Darthan Milden was giving you know,
like daily updates about like what is schedule. It's like
every day, you know, sharing his meetings and where he
was going to go, and talk about the work and
what he's doing our rockets. So you know, I do
feel that, you know, there's ways to get informed, but
to your point, and I think it's just like I've
seen it. I mean I've been coming since I think
twenty ten, so you know, to see the increase in
(26:22):
whether it's Black, Hispanic, you know, certainly Asian, LGBTQ, Like,
I feel like seeing these underrepresented communities really show up,
not in force yet, but you're starting to see it.
I think it really is a step in the right direction.
And I don't think enough people actually know about how
you are making those passes available. So hopefully this is
a jumping off point. We could certainly amplify that, but
(26:44):
I do feel that it is critical to have these
communities represented, especially as this really moves into the area
of culture, right because defining culture, you're seeing it come
from so many communities. I mean literally, now that'd be
so going to be young. I mean, we spoke about
this field. We've been trying to do something for years
together and we find we did it this year. And
I believe we brought the first Latin artists, you know,
(27:04):
like a musician who can to perform, and that was
Rau Alejandro, who's a huge global recatone star. But like,
we haven't really had that kind of representation, so it works.
I had to see that really happen more in force.
But you know, the culture aspect, do you feel that
is something where you know, you mentioned some of the
folks that haven't been there. Fashion you know is you
know on the radar, you know, some other groups. But
(27:25):
talk a little bit about sports, because when you think
about culture, I can't think of something that is more,
you know, kind of a driving force in culture today
than sports and specifically women's sports. And when you see
what was happening at CAN this year, like it was
just mind blowing to see so many athletes there CA.
Can you just talk a little bit about that and
of course our you know, favorite friends over at FIFA
(27:47):
you know shut up for the first time as well.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, I think it's worth just pausing for a second.
And just acknowledging a reality of we own the festival.
I've been running the festival now in it, but it's
run by our business and we get quite a bit
of praise for the growth of it. We also get
lots of criticism for various things as well, but we
get but it's really worth acknowledging that without partners, none
(28:11):
of this would happen. Right, So let me give you
a few examples of that. In about twenty twelve, I
was sitting in my office in the palais and can
and my assistant said, there's a guy down, says I
want to talk to you, this guy called Steve Stout.
I had no idea who he was. I happened to
have ten minutes. I said, okay, let him in. Steve
(28:33):
comes in. So Steve Stout is.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
A legend in hip hop and marketing and he has
his own agency. Translation, I mean he's a legend y.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, he's a legend. I, being stupid, didn't know who
he was at the time. Steve walks in says, Phil,
this is great. You've got no culture here, there's no
black culture, there's no music. I'm going to help you
do that. He then helped us do that. I won't
go into the details, but he was in massive help
to that. A woman called Adrianne Smith. She was walking
along the Cuasette one year, about twenty seventeen. She looked around,
(29:06):
she said, there isn't a single person that looks like me.
You know, she's from Harlem, she's a Black American. There's
nobody looks like me. This is crazy. She single handedly
created the Inkwell Beach, which is a beach for you know,
largely for the black community. And she takes so much,
so much credit for bringing this. You guys, you mentioned
(29:27):
we've been battling away on this Hispanic thing for years.
We finally got a breakthrough, but we couldn't possibly have
done it without your support and lots of other people's
support as well. So I think it's worth mentioning that.
And sport's another good example. Right. So we've had Manchester
United Con, we've had sport before, but really it was
the arrival of again to name names, it was Stagwell
(29:50):
who said we want to bring sport in a big way.
I think they admitted to me this year they didn't
have any particular right to own sport. They just said,
no one else seems to be owning it very the
smart though.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Possession is nine tenths of the law, and they definitely
possessed it.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And they created Sport Beach, which was amazing, perfinitely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I mean it's like who owns what? Well, nobody seems
to own sport. And then FIFA literally saw Staggrell Beach
last year and they just said we've got to be
here as well. So the sport then starts to snowball.
But again it's partners, it's other people bringing it to
the festival. It adds so much and without them it
wouldn't be anything.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
That's so great, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Phil I said on my own LinkedIn post of takeaways
that because there's so much happening at once, when you
try to distill it the experience and lots of people
were writing kind of their summer, I feel like it
inherently has to be a personal take because everyone's experience
is different in a way unique and that's the hard
part of it and the beauty of it. At the
(30:52):
same time. I think we're trying to get to is like, Okay,
you come back and you feel this inspiration if you
are there or if you commit as you say, at
and study it, you can be filled with inspiration even
if you weren't a physical attendee. How do you translate
it back in the boardroom. It's a very complicated question,
I know, and not a simple answer. But if the
(31:12):
purpose is effectiveness, sorry you know, I'm just saying, if
the purpose is effectiveness, how are you seeing people really
translate it back to the CEO, cfo's board chairman. We're
talking a lot about that this season.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
In a sense, it's it's not something that's ever going
to be fixed in the boardroom. In fact, I think
being a CMO or a creative in an agency is
probably the hardest thing to prove efficacy. And the problem
is you are in a battle with people who can
prove efficacy very very well. So you've got CFO, you've
(31:46):
got the CTO, you've got the head of sales, You've
got all sorts of people who are competing with you
for investment, and damn them, they can prove the dollars
very very easily, and it's very hard if your CMO.
We work with clients, brands, many many global brands on
advisory and consultancy programs, sometimes lasting four or five years
(32:10):
to help them with the cultural and creative transformation that
they need within their organizations. And we've worked with some
very very large organizations around that. Because it is hard
and it is long. However, I think there are two
parts of it. The first part is actually acknowledging and
understanding what great creativity is, and it is remarkably difficult
(32:32):
to boil it down. What I've found over the years
so interesting is if you're in a jewelry room, which
I try and spend as much time as I can,
there's a herd feeling that they kind of just know
what's great. And then when you see the winners, I mean,
I just recommend people just pick a category, pick the
film category from this year, have a look at the winners.
They are absolutely incredible. So it's a question firstly of
(32:55):
I think acknowledging and understanding and spending time looking at
the why do this win? Why is this literally the
greatest film of the last twelve months according to the jury,
and spending time in that, and then you can start
to understand, well, what does great creativity even look like,
because that's quite hard to start with. And then the
(33:15):
second part of it is there is increasingly more and
more evidence of the link between creativity and effectiveness. There
are so many studies of the efi's winners versus the
lions winners. There are independent studies of the share price
and the stock price of lion winning companies versus non
line win companies. There is a lot of evidence out there. Now,
(33:38):
sometimes you've got to gather it together yourself. But I
do think that is there for people to use if
they if they need to, and by god, I think
they generally do need to.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It sounds like you definitely are helping folks because they
have these challenges and you know, making the you know,
either the case you know back in the border. I
just think it's so critical to really help make the
business case because that is the theme. I mean everywhere
we were, you know, and Mercy and I we tried
to tag team together at lots of different places, you know,
from Forbes to you know, other places. You know. It
(34:08):
really was talking about the impact on the business and
how every single brand. There were so many brands, new
brands there and they were there in force. It was
shocked at how many had there were rowing you know,
five ten, you know, almost like two dozen deep in
some cases. So you see more folks coming. But they
really wanted to understand how to break through of creativity.
And I think that's the business argument because every CEO,
(34:31):
every CFO, they're trying to figure out how can we
break through and you need to be creative to do it.
So it's kind of like cutting off your nose in
spite of your face, Like you say you want this stuff,
but you're not going to make the investment. I find that,
you know, a little bit hypocritical, but you know, I
want to kind of maybe And then a fun last
question before we do Cooler Cringe. Marissa, Phil You've seen
(34:52):
so much, You've you know, experienced, you know, all these
amazing things, but I'd love to ask, like, what was
the weirdest thing that you would experiencing Candice here, because
it feels like, you know, there's so much here in
its madness. Well, what was the weirdest thing that you
experienced this year?
Speaker 3 (35:07):
So I went backstage. Mark Reid is the CEO of WPP,
was interviewing Elon Musk and in the palais. In the
bowels of the palais, they have the green rooms. They
call them the loges, the lodges, and I made my
way to the green room, and outside the green room,
I counted there were thirteen extremely large security guys. So
(35:31):
there were our security, the Palais Security, WPP Security, and
X Security. So were thirteen enormous blokes. So I walked
in and sitting in the room there was Kimball Musk
who had a cowboy hound, Elon Musk, and on his
knee was X that's his son, and Mark Reid. So
(35:56):
I went in and I was talking to them and
it was all very jolly, and suddenly, out of nowhere,
a small boy walked into the room, walked straight up
to Elon Musk and said, mister Musk, I'm so so
delighted to meet you. I'm so honored to meet you.
I'm such a big fan. And we just everybody was
(36:16):
looking at each other, including all the PR people, all
the assistants, me, Mark Reid, Elon Musk. Nobody knew who
this kid was, like nine year old kid with a
bow tie on, white shirt, bow tie glasses, talking to
Elon Musk saying why did you call it X. Elon
Musk said, do you mean my platform or do you
mean my son? And it was just surreal. Nobody knew
(36:40):
who this kid was and then he goes, thank you,
it's so wonderful to meet you, and he walked out
of the green room. I said to my guys, who
the hell was that? And they said, that was an
Albanian weather forecaster who was on the previous seminar stage
talking with the UN about climate change. And he's a
very very famous TV star in Albania at nine years old.
(37:05):
You should google him. Is amazing. And he just left
the building. Everybody was just astonished. And I went outside
and I said to these guys, I said, thirteen of.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
You just a security right there.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, And they said he was just a little boy.
He was just a little boy. Well, fair enough us suppose.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
But he did have a bow tie. To his credit,
he had a bow tie.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I mean, if that isn't an iconic Can story, I
don't know what it is. And that touches all the chords.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Phil.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
Yeah, well, we'd like to play our game of cooler
Cringe with you.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Are you ready? This will be our special Can edition?
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Of course I am ready, all.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Right, and now I feel like you've teed it up
and it would be an impossibility not to start here,
So cooler Cringe, Phil Elon musk Oh.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
It's cool. Obviously, both ourselves and WPP had a massive
discussion about that. Should we give him a platform?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Blah.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
We just felt, look, he's probably the most interesting person.
You don't have to agree with everything he says, but
he is the very, very interesting individual. And the last
time he talked to the industry he told them to
f off. So let's hear what he's come to say.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Off. He walked it back a little but yeah, all right, Steve,
and you want to take the next one?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, all right, cor cringe. We have all different types
that come to Can lyons, but I've seen an incredible
influx of finance people, so investment Becker's venture capitalist Are
these finance people? I can lions? Core cringe.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Oh come on, I mean, the more the merrier, the
more the merrier. But listen, I'll just tell you a
quick anecdote. When the vcs first started coming, it was
about ten years ago, and I met probably the first
venture capitalist ever to come to Can and he said
to me, this is the most amazing place. I'm going
to keep it a secret forever. I don't want any
(39:06):
of my competitors to know about it, etc. And I
said to h I'm so glad you've enjoyed it. I said,
have you had a chance to go to any of
the award shows at all? And he said to me,
no word of a lie. You have award shows.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
And that's so cooler.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
That's a cringe. Definitely a little bit.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Of an interesting one this year. Obviously, of the many
companies that were present, TikTok was one of them. So
here's the cooler cringe part of the question. TikTok not
talking about the potential existential threat to the future of
TikTok at can cooler? Cringe? Smarter? Not so smart?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I can't be sure they didn't. I mean, maybe they
did in private. I'm sure they probably did in private,
but I'm not sure what choice they really have they
i mean, you know, they're trying to their business and
presumably hoping that it's going to work out okay for them.
So I'm kind of down the middle with that one. Really.
I think it would have been very hard for them
to really address that. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
You know?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
One of the favorite phrases I ever got from a CEO,
and I'll attribute this to Greg Creed, the CEO of
Young When I was at Taco Bell was I'll paraphrase.
It was something along the lines of you've got to
sort of speak the truth and then give hope. So
I like that mantra when things are tough. I mean,
it's like when there's that eight hundred pound grill in
the room. I think just pretending it's not there is uncomfortable.
(40:36):
And I think there were a few moments it'd be
given some things in the Media World Company and we
don't have to name them all, where that eight hundred
pound gorilla felt present amidst the rose. I think it's
it's a little bit of a cringe. Like I think
you talk about it and then you say, but here's
why we believe in the power what we're doing, and
(40:58):
here's how we're addressing it. I think ignoreing it is
a little awkward, but it's a tough situation, no question.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
All right, last core Crint all right, we got to
say it, Ai core Crint film. Come on, I'm sure
you're you're all ail out after after the week.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
But cor Crint Ai was last year was absolute talk
of the town. It was Ai Bingo. I know, you
guys player marketing. It was Ai Bingo. This year it
did feel like people just accepted it as part of
the part of the reality. Elon Musk maybe threw a
bit of a hand grenade into the audience when he said, basically,
(41:34):
most of you are going to be out of a job.
It's just slightly slightly concerning.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Is that this year's f off right?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
That was the new version of it.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
But I actually I've got a theory about AI if
we've got time really quickly. So in terms of events,
you know, you talked about Lions being a bit of
a must go to and there are lots of other events.
Events have bounced back a lot since COVID. So here's
my theory on events. I think we're going to have
the opportunity every day a thousand times to either interact
with AI or with a human, and most of the
(42:04):
time we are going to choose AI because AI doesn't
get tired, it's very rarely wrong, it's getting more and
more accurate, it doesn't answer back to you. It's going
to be you know, it's going to do a lot
of great things, and a lot of the time we're
going to choose AI to interact. I think what that
means is human interaction is going to go weigh up
the value chain, and we are going to value every
(42:25):
single human interaction so much more because it's going to
be rarer. And yes it might be it might be flawed.
Human beings are flawed, but I think that means coming
together is going to be more important than ever.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Well. I love juxtaposing that thought with your earlier statement
that it wasn't even a big topic of conversation in
the awards themselves, because the essence of creativity, I do
think is still fundamentally human human.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, nicely put human.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
But if gen Z doesn't even you know, talk on
the phone, you know they're just going to you know,
text message or something. It definitely sounds like the premium
on human interaction is going to be continuing to skyrocket.
And that sounds like it's a great way to end
our chat, because that is truly making can Lyons, this
incredible festival, this incredible convening, this incredible community that much
(43:19):
more important. So thank you, Phil for so much, for
all that you do for the industry, for sorry being
the champion of the festival and creativity, and for being
with us. We know that you have had an incredible,
extraordinary week. But the truth of the matter is I
feel more inspired than ever coming out of this week,
and I immerse it does too. So thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Thank you very much for inviting me. Thank you great
to see you again.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
All right, and now it is time for what's on
your minds? Steven, you want to read us The question
of this episode.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Question comes from Josh, and Josh asked, with all of
the buzz around can Lions, what really is the value
of a tending this type of festival? When you can
read all these things online and you have all the recaps,
why should you really be focused on a festival like this?
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Merisa, Well, I think this question is a fair question.
It's a perennial question, and it actually relates very much
to the conversation we just had with Phil in terms
of appreciating the return on creativity. And I think the
other part is the return on connection. Is for me,
here's a way to frame it that maybe a finance
person would like. It's actually an efficiency play, maybe a
(44:32):
little bit of an indulgent one, because you're flying all
the way to the south of France to have this
efficiency play happen. But there is no other convocation in
the world. Some things come a little close, like a
CS or I've never actually been to Davos. The possible
conference that we talked about is getting a little closer.
But this global convocation of everyone, and I think it
(44:52):
becoming even more about cultures we discussed. I mean, when
you think about some of the boldface names that were there,
it is just an unique opportunity as a marketer to
be able to learn, connect, share and get things done.
I mean, if you don't come back with a to
do list, you didn't do can write for me. That
(45:15):
is the process of taking notes, writing down ideas, and
having my follow ups which you're going to kick into
gear for real, probably more next week. So that's my
answer is it's unique. It's unique because of the learning, teaching, sharing,
connecting ideas and then how you get to like make
things happen there that you might never be able to
(45:36):
get done at all or certainly not this expeditiously.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
What about you if you think of the learnings that
you get just by reading something or you know, watching
tiktoks or doing whatever online, you know, that's one dimension
to it. I think it's really about asking the questions
when you actually see people. I mean, for me, the
best part is all of the in person communication. And
you know, I don't subscribe to call things networking, right,
(46:01):
I feel like that's such a dated term. I really
feel it's about human connection and when you see someone
that you don't know or you've read about, or you
go up to someone. I mean, it could be someone
like like kro Swisher. We saw her on the quasette
right barsa or you know, we saw her at an event.
You know, we went up to her and we spoke
to her, like okay, great. You know, then you actually
have real conversation with these folks and you ask them
a question directly, and it's just very different. So I
(46:23):
feel like the learnings from people like that, or you know,
just being in with different agency partners or different you know,
kind of creative agencies. You know obviously the media and
the tech companies. But I feel like it's reading between
the lines. It's actually when you see someone and you
bump into someone in the closet, or you're you're somewhere
at a festo. It doesn't have to be can Lions,
by the way. It could actually be you know, other events.
(46:43):
It could be a local event just going in and
having the courage to go and ask a question, and
that means you have to be prepared. You need to say, hey,
these are three things that I want to get out
of this experience, whatever event it is. But I think
you see all these events really coming back and force
people want to connect people in real life IRL matters,
and I feel like there's just this hunger for this
(47:06):
human connection and I can't say it any more passionately
than just being out there. Being with people is where
you're going to learn the most, where you're going to
grow the most. And I feel like that's something that
especially for anyone that's in the beginning of their career,
get out of your home, go into the office, go
to an event, just get out and connect with people.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
And it doesn't have to be all the way to
the South of France. You can practice that in whatever
capacity in which you're working and living professionally. But that's
the answer, and that's it for now. Thanks for joining us.
We hope you'll follow us at the Brand New Podcast
wherever you listen to your podcasts so you never miss
an episode. Connect with us on all of our social channels,
(47:46):
and join us next time for What's Brand new
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