11/12/25: DHS Attacks Krystal, Shapiro Scolds Poor Young People, Bombshell Epstein Emails, Katie Wilson Wins In Seattle

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2 (00:33):
So we have some really significant developments coming out of
Chicago at this point with regard to that ICE and
CBP deployment. So according to the Chicago Tribune, we can
put this up on the screen. Those immigration agents are
supposed to be pulled relatively soon, or at least most
of them. So let me go ahead and read from
you to you from this article. By the way, this

(00:54):
reporter has done some really great on the ground reporting
and has been following the court cases that have been
going on and cargo as well, so he's certainly worth.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
A follow, so, he writes.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Federal immigration agents part of the Trump administration's Operation Midway
Blitz may soon leave Chicago, according to multiple sources, who
said the controversial mission was rapidly winding down after a
contentious two months of enforcement raids that have set the
city and suburbs on edge. Commander Gregory Bovino, the top
official on the ground leading the Trump administration's efforts, was

(01:26):
expected to depart Chicago for another assignment within days, and
most of the Border Patrol agents under this command would
soon be redeployed elsewhere, three sources told The Tribune Monday.
An on call task force composed of FBI and assistant
US attorneys is also expected to close up shop in
the coming days, the source is said. In a statement Monday,

(01:47):
a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, which is
overseeing the operation, said, every day DHS enforces the laws
of this country, including in Chicago. We do not comment
or telegraph future operations. They go on to indicate that
some of the people who the federal agents that have
been involved in this Operation Midway Blitz would be relocated
now to Charlotte, North Caro, Carolina. So it's not like

(02:10):
the you know, insane and violent and reckless and lawless
immigration actions are going to stop. Just looks like they're
going to be relocated to Charlotte, North Carolina. DHS is
pushing back on this reporting. We can put D three
up on the screen so people can take a look
at what they're saying. This is Trisia McLaughlin. She says,

(02:31):
we aren't leaving Chicago. Since start of Operation Midway Blitz
in Chicago, ho sizer down sixteen percent, shootings down thirty
five percent, robberies down forty one percent, carjackings down forty
eight percent, transit crime down twenty percent. A lot of
people pointing out online don't know if it got a
community note or not that these numbers, first of all,
included time period when they weren't even in Chicago, and
those numbers had been coming down anyway. But in any case,

(02:53):
she's saying here, we aren't leaving Chicago. Emily, I think
likely the you know, full force operation that we've see
in with the insane like black Hawk helicopter raids and
ice and CBP agents. I mean CBP agents literally shot
a woman and then bragged about the number of holes
they put in her body. We've had numerous traffic incidents,
We've had tear gassing of you know, near children getting

(03:16):
ready for hall Ween Parade. Just a lot that has
been going on that we've been seeing every single day.
I think the height of that will be diminished significantly.
That doesn't mean that they're pulling every single federal agent,
which is why I think, I mean, Tricia McLaughlin is
the chill just lie anyway, But I think that's probably
what they're hanging their hat on to say, like, oh,
we're not really technically leaving.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 5 (03:38):
I mean, it's been a similar situation here in DC.
I don't know how much you've noticed this, Crystal, but
the National Guard presence isn't totally gone, but it's diminished
so significantly. And actually, I think I don't know to
what extent this will be a problem for the administration,
but it feels like homicides, unfortunately, are starting to tick

(03:58):
back up as well. Three I think over the weekend,
and some really brutal, awful crimes. So I don't know
how they're going to start, you know, they've sort of
put themselves. I'm just thinking about this, even from a
PR perspective, But with places like Chicago and Washington, d C.
Where they had this big surge, First of all, their
own base is not happy with the pace of deportations.

(04:20):
They say they're at roughly like two million self deportations,
which is obviously part of the goal with the show
of force that you're seeing in these cities, but also
they think about five hundred thousand total deportations, and based
on you know, where the base thought those numbers were
going to be, this is not even doing it for

(04:43):
the hardest core mass deportation people in MAGA world, who
are getting annoyed honestly with Christy nomes like social media
designed content, designed videos to kind of prove how tough
the administration is being. So they're sort of they've sort
of set themselves up for a difficult situation even as

(05:07):
they go forward in some of those cities by their
own measures, which is kind of an interesting part of
it as well.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Crystal.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, and what I've been saying is in response to
like the election results and the referendum really against this
administration is unfortunately, I think people will accept a lot
of authoritarianism if their material needs are being met, so
they may not like seeing you know, children, dear guests.
But unfortunately, I think if you felt like but I'm

(05:36):
able to pay my rent, or I'm able to buy
a house, or I'm able to afford healthcare, or my
wages are going up, you know, I guess I'm just
going to have to deal with that. People are not
looking like they didn't vote for you, including your own
base who are fully on board with mass deportation. Now,
they did not vote for you for some ASMR deportation video.

(05:58):
They didn't vote for you so that the DHS account
could Nazi post every day, right, So you know, even
for the hardest core supporters, this is starting to leave
them flat. And for the rest of America, it's very
clear they are completely appalled. They're appalled by your lack
of focus on their lives. They're appalled by your sadism.
They're appalled by the fact that you want to put

(06:20):
absolute cruelty and horror on display every single day. And
you know, I know the idea is that this is
going to lead to a bunch of self deportations, and
guess what it has. And I would ask people, has
that led your life to being any better? Because the
sale of this immigration crackdown is that it's these people's
fault that you're struggling. It's their fault that housing is

(06:41):
too expensive. It's their fault that healthcare is too expensive.
It's their fault that the job market isn't.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
What it should be.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Well, guess what, Yeah, deportations are pretty high. The border
is closed effectively, no more asylum cases coming in unless
you're like a white South African apparently. And then and
you know, you have had success in getting people to
quote unquote self deport So the plan is working. Is
your life better? Did that improve your life? And the

(07:10):
answer is no. I mean, people say the economy sucks,
and so the thing that you were blaming for all
of the economic will woes, scapegoating this group of vulnerable people,
turns out that wasn't really the problem, and voters would
beginning to notice, you know, having these mass thugs in
the street is actually keep creating more lawlessness and chaos

(07:32):
and sense of unsafety then I was experiencing before. So
you know, I think it's noteworthy to me that, you know,
I think the timing of the winding down of this
operation probably has to do with two things three things.
Number one, the intense pushback in Chicago. Chicago residents have
really been galvanized. Uh and the political class there as

(07:52):
well has been quite galvanized. Number two, the election results
being so clearly against the Trump administration on every front.
And then number three, it's getting really cold in Chicago,
and they're probably like, you know what, we don't like.
We don't really want to be out here in the
streets anymore. This is this, you know, violent sadism is
no longer as fun as it was earlier. We've got

(08:13):
a clip here of JB. Pritzker, the governor of the state,
talking about this reporting this is D two. Let's go
ahead and listen to that.

Speaker 6 (08:21):
The question was about Greg Bavino and CBP possibly leaving Chicago.
I read the same thing. You know, they don't communicate
directly with us and never have. All I can say
is that, you know, whether it was the loss in
the elections a week ago that's led to Donald Trump

(08:41):
deciding to pull CBP out, or the fact that Greg
Bavino is a snowflake on a day when you can
see some snowflakes. Whatever it is, the people of Chicago
have deserved better than having CBP and Greg Bavino in
this city. But I would not say that we're now
going to be free of these terrorized neighborhoods, because ICE

(09:05):
and CBP probably will still be here, though they will
have fewer people, and we'll have to continue to protect
our neighbors and our friends and our.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
At the same time, DHS really keeping their eye on
the ball and focus on the important things, such as
quote tweeting me online, D five up on the screen.
So I tweeted out this video and we'll show you
the video in a moment so you can judge for
yourself what is going on here. But a video which
appears to show ICE or CBP, some federal immigration agent

(09:37):
shooting tear gas into a car that is just driving by,
and in the aftermath of that, there was a one
year old in the car who gets hit with this
tear gas. The family later said they had to take
her to the hospital. They were worried about her airwaves
closing up, because of course little children are very vulnerable
to these sorts of chemical weapons. Effectively, so I said,

(10:00):
they dumped pepper spray on a one year old baby. Demons,
actual demons. I stand by that. And then Homeland Security
quote twidts me and says DHS law enforcement does not
pepper spray children. Here are the facts. During an operation,
rioters began throwing objects at agents and blocking the road.
This did not occur in a Sam's Club parking lot.
Border patrol deployed crowd control measures that means pepper spray

(10:23):
and safely cleared the area. So they're claiming that they
did not, in fact pepper spray a one year old
and that the whole presentation of this video is not correct.
So let's go ahead and put the video up. You guys
can judge for yourself of what happened here. This is
the aftermath. This is the little baby who is being
comforted by her mother and clearly distressed here after this event.

(10:48):
And so here is the incident. So they're just driving
and you can see they have a window open, and
whoever this is ICE or CVP just dumps pepper spray
into their window. These are not These are lawful residents.
They were not protesting the exactly according to ye citizens exactly.

(11:08):
And let's put the next piece up on the screen.
There was a news report about this incident and spoke
to this family, and the family basically said we were
going shopping at Sam's Club and saw that there was
some sort of something going on here, so we went
to turn the car around and as we're trying to
drive away, that's when they, you know, dump this pepper

(11:33):
spray into their vehicle, and you know, everyone in the vehicle,
including the one year old baby, is affected. This comes
after too emily there have been court orders saying you
cannot use pepper spray in this insane way that you've
been using like you should be using it incredibly rarely.
You have to issue multiple warnings before you deploy it,

(11:56):
and you are not allowed to just be using these
aggressive riot control tactics whenever you feel like it. So
when I talk about them being lawless, this is a
perfect example of that where you know, there was no
warning to this family. This family did literally nothing wrong.
They just happened to be in the wrong place at
the wrong time. They were trying to, you know, leave
the scene, and like, okay, you guys are doing whatever

(12:18):
you're doing, We're getting out of here, and that's when
they're hit with this pepper spray. According to what they
told local press, so, you know, just unbelievable stuff.

Speaker 5 (12:27):
So reading from this local report. This is a local
PBS affiliate. There's a sentence in here where it says
it is unclear how a family driving the opposite direction
as the convoy vehicle's driven by federal agents on a
major thoroughfare could pose an immediate threat to agents to
merit the use of crowd control weapons. And I think
that that brings pretty true.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
That is clearly. I mean, the little.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
Girl has clearly been pepper spray, and you can that's
the typical reaction to pepper spray. It's awful to see
it on a one year old. But your point about
the lawlessness, Crystal Listen, I think this is an important one,
and I'm saying that as somebody who actually believes that
you have to do something about this. Everyone defines, like quote,

(13:09):
mass deportations differently. I do think that there should be
significant deportations. I don't know what mass deportations really means.
I don't think the administration or anybody who's promising to
do mass deportations really knows what that number means, as
they constantly are trying to redefine what it means. But
when you do it lawlessly, first of all, you completely
lose support for the overall project, and it's wrong. It's

(13:32):
just it's wrong. It's plainly wrong. It's not American, and
it's a real problem when you're trying to do things
so quickly that you have like very little control over
or concerned for the way that it's being played out
on a local level. So I mean, of course there

(13:55):
are going to be people who protest these deportations that
put themselves and others in dangerous situations, but that's obviously
not what we're looking at in this case. There are
some cases where you can look at that and say,
you know, this is that's there's a there's a legitimate
question as to who was being unsafe in the presence
of law enforcement. This is not one of those situations whatsoever.

(14:17):
They didn't check to see who was in the car.
They saw what looked like a Hispanic male and pepper
spray into the car. He's a citizen's exactly right, and
he's a family like the little girl in the car,
and they don't even they're driving my so quickly they
wouldn't have even known.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, that's that is exactly right. And you know the
other thing that's interested, first of all, DHS just lies.
They just lie routinely, like it's nothing. We can all
literally watch the video it's attached to my tweet and
see that what you're saying is not true like we
see it.

Speaker 5 (14:48):
Or what's one is that they're getting lies from local
people who are implicated and could potentially be legally implicated,
and then they repeat them and which is not okay
either way.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
But that's what like, I just it's.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
But like they could also watch the video, you know,
it's right there. You can watch the video judge for yourself,
maybe decide whether this is the hill you want to
die on. But the other thing that's interesting to me
is that they even want or feel the need to
push back, which in the past they didn't, you know,
I mean, it's a new thing I see not just
with me, but with other people posting things online. They're

(15:21):
quote tweeting and putting out their narrative about the story,
et cetera. And so, you know, to me, it is
an indication that they realize that this is you know,
people aren't just going, oh, it's a base that you
to your guys to one year old base based base.
They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And
feel at least some level of Oh, we better come
up with some kind of a justification here for what

(15:42):
looks to be a horrible act.

Speaker 5 (15:44):
That little girl's an American. She's an American. According to reports,
she's an American.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
There you go. Wouldn't do anything wrong. We're just in a.

Speaker 7 (15:51):
Car, all right.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
Christ Let's move on to the affordability question. Ben Shapiro
was on with Friends of the show Triggerometry.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
I can say that, right, we.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Have that really yeah, they're definitely gonna watch this.

Speaker 5 (16:06):
By the way, well, it is important, of course to
watch before you react, as as they reminded us.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
When was that a couple of months ago?

Speaker 2 (16:17):
I don't know because I didn't watch. So's have you
ever been to.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
The trigonometry studio? All right, let's you've never been? All right?

Speaker 5 (16:27):
Ben Shapiro was on Trigonometry and wide in on the
affordability question in a way that we thought might make
for a fun little conversation here about what actually can
be done nuts and bold meat potatoes to make the
country more affordable affordable for everyone. Crystal and I will
probably disagree different directions on this, but I think we
may have more agreement than we realized. Let's go ahead

(16:47):
and roll this clip of Shapiro talking about affordability.

Speaker 8 (16:51):
Affordability is not like beetlejuice, or if you just say
it over and over suddenly rise. You actually have to
pursue policies that are likely to alleviate and affordable problem.
But if your solution is always give me more power,
and it does seem like that is the solution of
the day from both sides, actually, then you are likely
to just continue pendle theming one side to the other

(17:12):
because people don't want to learn the actual lesson, which is,
if you actually want affordability, then either you have to
change policies or change locations, though those are really the
only two things. And also, I think more broadly, it's
not about affordability. We have trained an entire generation of
people to believe that if their lives are not what
they want them to be, it's the fault of systems,
as opposed to decisions that are in their own control.

(17:33):
I mean, I was looking around at property prices, real
estate prices in New York.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
I'm doing pretty well for myself. I feel kind of
poor looking at those.

Speaker 8 (17:41):
Oh no, a ton of And I'm not saying it's
not affordable, right, absolutely is unaffordable. If you're a young
person and you can't afford to live here, then maybe
you should not live here.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
I mean, that is a real thing.

Speaker 8 (17:50):
I know that we've now grown up in a society
that says that you deserve to live where you grew up.
But the reality is that the history of America is
almost literally the opposite of that, the history of mamercause
you go to a place where there is opportunity, and
if the opportunities are limited here and they're not changing,
then you really should try to think about other places
where you have better opportunities.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
So I absolutely hate that last part of the argument.
That's probably not.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
As a president they are that's a little worried.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
No, I mean, that's actually one of the arguments that
I think is the least conservative and the most detestable
argument to hear from conservatives because one of the reasons
I think places New York City is not the best
example of it. DC is a pretty good example of it,
a very transitory city, but also in San Francisco, places
like that. One of the reasons that we see so

(18:37):
much malaise in those cities is that the people who
grew up and have family there can't afford it and
move away, And you have people who are sort of
in and out for five years, ten years, don't really
care that much in the way that you care about
the place that you grew up because you're part of
the social fabric. You know people who know people in
city council. You go to church with people, or you're

(18:59):
in the pta people or that person was your teacher Christly.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
You know this because you live this. This is like.

Speaker 5 (19:05):
It does make a difference, no matter what you say,
it makes an absolutely significant difference.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
It makes better communities, and.

Speaker 5 (19:12):
Communities is an important part of what lifts people into
a sort of satisfying and fulfilling life.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
Maybe you can actually just speak to them moment because again,
you do live that.

Speaker 9 (19:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I mean, I'm a person who values very much place
and values very much I live and I'm raising my
kids in the very same town that I grew up in.
You know, my kids are in class with the kids
of people that I It's amazing, graduated high school with
like and went to preschool with I mean literally, and
you know I moved one to be here in particular
because my parents are are getting older. Just celebrated dad's

(19:44):
ninetieth birthday. So I wanted to be close to them,
and I wanted my kids to be able to be
close to them. But I love the feeling of, you know,
having that connectivity to this specific place. It is it's
hard to describe the feeling, but it is a very
rooted feeling and that loss of community in our country,
which has been tracked, you know, all the way going

(20:05):
back to Bowling Alone, which is this seminal sociological study
of the way that we're all sort of like coming apart,
and all of that accelerated of course by social media
and smartphones. I think it is an affirmative value that
we should aspire to that if people want to be
able to live and raise kids in the places that

(20:27):
they're from, that, you know, that's something we should value
as society. And there's nowhere. I mean, on the one hand,
rural areas have been decimated because of the free trade regime,
so you know a lot of places don't have opportunities,
so people feel they have to move then to a
New York City because Ben Shapiro says that, well you
go where the opportunity is, Well, where do you think

(20:48):
the frickin' opportunity is it's places like New York City,
but then you get there and you're living in a
shoe box and you can't afford to make it, so
it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't.
This is a I think liberals have had a blind
spot for the you know, that importance a place and
that being an affirmative value, and then the economic elites

(21:10):
over the past forty years, you know, their view has
always been as they're destroying jobs in these various places,
like basically big deal creative destruction.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
I guess you just need to move away.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
So they, of course, you know, haven't had any any
appreciation for the importance of community or you know, they also,
I think, find it easier to like control and make
you and you know, make it so your whole life
is your job if you are uprooted from a place
in a community that has meaning for you. So it
serves them on that end as well.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
Yeah, you know, Ryan and I were texting on Friday
and I was looking for a movie to watch, and
I asked him, you know, which should I watch Bowling
for Columbine and Roger or Roger and Me? Because I was,
I'm just going ding me. I'm working through my list,
and Ryan's like, you've got to watch Roger and Me.
I've never seen it before, and you know, I'm from
the Upper Midwest outside of Milwaukee, and watching that movie,

(22:02):
it's it's like a really emotional experience because you look
at what happened to Flint. You look at the way
the people who were in the auto industry were treated.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
It didn't make for you. They weren't able to just
like find jobs. A lot of them.

Speaker 5 (22:18):
You watch it, they're leaving Flint. They're leaving and going
to other places. And what you take with you when
you do that is this like real love for your community.
And it makes worse businesses. It makes small businesses in
a local community operate differently than massive global companies, which

(22:40):
bring with them all of the problems. By the way,
that conservatives hate about global governing organizations, whether it's like
the World Economic Forum or the United Nations, there's just
something that is completely detached in different and it's much
easier to do mass layoffs. And conservatives will say, okay, well,
that means it's much easier for you to be more efficient,
But efficiency isn't the end of the economy. Nobody just

(23:02):
believes the economy should exist only for the sake of efficiency.
And I say nobody, but some people, of course do.
They're just a minority, you know. Hardcore libertarians basically are
the ones who will tell you that. So I wanted
to put this chart on the screen because one of
the things been talked about was how both sides are
basically trying to consolidate power and that has created a

(23:24):
less affordable America. And this chart is from AI. It
gets updated like every six months. This is the twenty
twenty two version of it from the American Enterprise Institute
Mark Perry, who's an economist at the American Enterprise Institute.
It's a little bit of an ink blot test. You
can kind of look into it. You can read into
it a lot of different things. Stoller and I were
going back and forth about how you can read antitrust
into this chart.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
But what you see is.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
You look at overall inflation and then you can see
certain things that have gotten more expensive since two thousand
and certain things have gotten less expensive, so more affordable
versus more expensive since two thousand and Everybody knows this
in their hearts, like you, just this chart hits you
like a ton of bricks when you see college tuition
just going up so high, and then TVs going down

(24:08):
so low, ninety seven point seven percent drop in the
affordability of TVs, nursery, school, childcare going up, medical care
services going up, college tuition, food and beverages going up,
and then you see computers, software, toys, TVs, clothing, new
cars roughly going down a little blip around the COVID

(24:29):
time period. And I think the reason that I think
Ben in a sense is correct this chart points to it.
From my perspective is that I really do worry about
subsidies in the like mom Donnie era New York City,
making things in the long term less affordable. This is
a huge part of the debate we're having right now

(24:51):
about the Affordable Care Act subsidies and Obamacare subsidies really
can create oligopolies, like they actually do have that effect.
I think it's been pretty clear with college tuition that
subsidies have created little incentive for these colleges to compete
with one another on tuition price, and so I do
think that should be part of the conversation. I don't

(25:12):
know chrisl how you feel about it. But the question
for me as a conservative is like, well, if the
status quo is also miserable, which is the case with
health insurance, then you can't just ask people to wait
until there's some type of like comprehensive, conservative market based
solution in six months or six years. People don't deserve
to have their premiums spiked because the system is failing.

(25:37):
And just like shoulder that on the promise that someday
you'll do like a reform to the subsidies, Like I
don't think the subsidies are a great option right here.
I don't think just subsidizing housing, freezing rent.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
I don't think that those are good long term options.

Speaker 5 (25:51):
And so I think, you know, that's a blind spot
in some ways, I think for the progressive left. Although
mom Donnie is kind of interesting because he engages in
the abundance conversation. It is, but neither neither you or
I are like full abundance people.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
But I'm a yes, I'm yes, and on abundant.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
There we go, there we go.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Right, you got to do the but you also have
to and they're focus on like you actually need to deliver.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
Agree, But their.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Lack of focus on you're going to have to confront
capital is where that analysis falls short. I think you're
right about subsidies, and to me, though I don't see
that as progressive left, I see that as neoliberal perfect.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
You know, that's it. We're going to do a tax
credit and we're going to give you. You know, we're
going to.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Okay, going to subsidize it, right, and look better than nothing. Right,
it's a band aid, though it's absolutely a band aid.
And if you're going to wait for your like conservative
market based solution, you're going to get things like a
fifty year mortgage. We have left to the market instead
of having our own values and priorities in the way

(26:53):
that for example, China has, we have said we are
going to outsource our thinking and our values to the market,
and all the market does is says, great, we're going
to figure out how we can builk you for all
of the money that we possibly can and consolidate power
and wealth among a very few people. And that's how
you end up broadly with the system where the core

(27:14):
building blocks of a middle class life, housing, healthcare, and
education are wildly unaffordable because we can't as a country say,
you know what put them like the profitability aside. These
are things that are just basic goods and values that
everyone should have access to, and we're going to do
what we need to do to make sure that that

(27:36):
is the case. So, you know, your comment about subsidies
is absolutely correct. Don't disagree with that at all. Where
I would disagree is so for example, with college education,
Zorn Mamdanie and Bernie Sanders wouldn't be saying that's why
we need to, you know, have a better student loan program.
They'd say, that's why we need free college education three,
you know, public colleges that are free and available to everyone.

(27:58):
On housing, they wouldn't say, you know, that's why you
need an extra tax credit or for affordability. I mean,
they may be on board with those sorts of things,
but they would say, we need more direct government building
of social housing so that we can surge affordable housing
into the market and don't have to wait for some
developer to decide that it's in their best financial interest

(28:18):
to do it. And by the way, when they do,
they're going to build luxury, high end condos, not starter
homes for young families, you know. So and on healthcare. Obviously,
they're not looking like, yes, they'll support subsidies in the
short term just so people don't fifteen million people don't
lose their healthcare or whatever the number is. That's not
their long term solution though. What they would say is

(28:40):
Medicare for all, we have to tackle putting profit at
the center of our healthcare system instead of.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
Health and care. So, you know, to me, what you're
pointing to is.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
The failures of a neoliberal democratic party that doesn't want
to confront capital, wants to deal with some problems and
seize the you know, sees the pain and is empathy,
wants to deal with the problems, but doesn't want to
confront capital. And that's where all of these weird subsidies
and tax credits, and you know, if you're this kind
of business owner in this kind of town, weird bizarre,

(29:13):
piecemeal non universal programs ultimately come in.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
Yeah, And I think probably where you and I have
and Sager and I and Ryan and you have like
more fundamental disagreements is on like I still have a
really hard time with Medicare for all and like seeing
that that or feeling comfortable with like the level of
quality that a program like that would look like the
same thing with you know, I mean all kinds of

(29:39):
things at public colleges, that sort of thing. But my
position in medicare for all of for the last several years,
has been will it be more miserable than the already
miserable system that we're in? And I don't know that
the answer to that is no, because this system sucks.
It sucks and it is great for people who continue
to profit off of it. And that does go in

(30:00):
both directions. I mean, the biggest enemies of capitalism, This
was a common sentiment in the Gilded Age, by the way,
the biggest enemies of capitalism are the capitalists. And that's
how you end up with people reflexively going towards subsidy
regimes because they're band aids. And it's understandable that people
are looking for band aids when they're bleeding out, and

(30:23):
so actually the capitalists continuing to prioritize themselves over let's
bring this full circle the public, their communities. Michigan is
such a good example of this, such a good example
is you, mother effing capitalists, why do you think you
got Trump? You didn't want Trump? Why do you think

(30:43):
people voted for Trump. Well, it's because of what you
did to Michigan, it's because of what you did to
Wisconsin's because of what you did to Pennsylvania. Do you
think the country is healthier because of any of this,
because you put people to the brink of desperation that
they voted the host of celebrity Apprentice into the presidency.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
No, and it's not.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
There's been zero self reflection about how their policies, whether
they were subsidy band aids or whether they were bailouts
for the auto industry, whether they were complete you know,
just just treating people like widgets and abandoning communities that
had lifted them, lifted their profits and supported them and

(31:22):
been a part of their team and taken pride in
working for Milwauk and think about like Masterlocke. But if
you're in Michigan GM, those types of things, it's just
me just like I'm talking about it, I'm almost crying.
It's just so horrible, and there's no reflection on it
whatsoever from the capitalists themselves. And again, that was a

(31:42):
common sentiment in the Yilded Age, was that the capitalists
were the enemies of capitalism. But nobody wants to Even
after Donald Trump gets elected and Bernie Sanders almost gets elected,
nobody wants to talk about that.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Well, let me say that what was done to Michigan,
what has been done to small towns and small cities,
the hollowing out across the country, the de industrialization is
going to look like child's play compared to what they're
planning with AI. Now, maybe AI is just a big
hype in a bubble and it pops and there's you know,
massive economic fallout and chaos, which is a horrible outcome

(32:16):
but doesn't end up with all human labor being replaced.
But you know, those are basically the two directions. But
their their goal is to make everyone irrelevant. That is,
you know we talk about like late stage capitalism, like
that is actually their end state that they're trying to achieve,
because the whole history of labor and capital is that

(32:39):
capital basically hates labor, wants to pay them as little
as possible, work them as much as possible, like not
that let them have maternity leave or paternity leave or
sick leave or whatever. It's this adversarial relationship and they
would love nothing more than to make it so they
don't have to deal with us at all, and the
level of power and wealth that would float to them

(33:01):
in that scenario is just I mean, it's beyond anything
that we have even come close to seeing before in
human history. That's what they're aiming for. I mean, that
is the goal, and that's that's the market based solution.
And you know, I think a few of them realize, like,
if we're going to pull this off, we're going to
have to give them like a universal basic.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Income or throw them some crumbs or something.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
But you know, let's be clear about what they actually want.
And you know, I've been thinking of this. We don't
have to open this whole can of worms. But I'll
just put this idea out there. We can flesh it
out more because I'm still fleshing it out myself. But
Capital is very happy with Trump, like they're you know,
Wall Street CEOs are hanging out with him at the

(33:45):
White House. They figure out if I just bring him
his gold bar in the White House, I can get
whatever I want. I got my tax cut, you know,
he's I can the tariffs are now you know, being
rolled back, and anyway, I was able to get my
car ounce, so it wasn't that big of a problem
for me whatsoever. And the big thing that they're getting,
these tech giants in particular.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Is off to the races on AI.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
They think they're going to get whether this is I mean,
I think this is reality. They think they'll get government
bailows to backstop their losses. They think that government is
going to affect it, like actively help them with their
compute build out and allow them to achieve the grand
dream and vision, which is to get rid of all
of our like the need for any of our labor.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Like that's the goal exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
And so when you hear Shapiro talking about like you know,
his market like classic conservative market driven solutions, that is
the future that the market has in mind for us.
That's the goal is to pay a zero employees, zero amount,
Like that is the driving push.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
So just be aware.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
That's like that's what he would advocate for. That's what
he would say is finding good and acceptable and and
you know, we can get whatever, you know, with our pitchforks.
We can sort of extract from the trillionaires that run
the show. You know, it kind of makes uh. So
what I was gonna say with regard to the connection
with immigration is you know, in the past, the anti

(35:15):
immigration position was anathema to business because they do abuse
and exploit undocumented workers.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
They love the chief labor force and they've kind of
come to terms with it in Trump's second term because
what's even better than chief labor is no labor at all,
not having to pay human beings at all.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
So it's part of why I feel like.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
You know, the the focus on immigration misses the point
at this point, like there is a great replacement theory
playing out. It's these tech oligarchs who literally are telling
you they want to replace you with a robot. That
is the That's the big battle that's going on right now.
And you know, I hope, and we've been covering closely

(35:59):
on the show. I hope there is a cross ideological
coalition that is able to come together to push back
forcefully on that view because it is genuinely existential.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
I mean, it's easy to be blackpolled on the right
because during the kind of peak woke era is when
you saw people in the Republican Party saying we're done
with the Chamber of Commerce and we're creating our own
chamber of commerce.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
You know, these capitalists.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
Marco Ruba gave this entire speech at Catholic University is
a wonderful piece of theology and politics where he's talking
about the ends of markets are not efficiency, the ends
are families and community. Like that is why markets don't
exist for the sake of efficiency. They exist because we
create them via our democracy in order to have strong,

(36:50):
prosperous families that can flourish in communities that can flourish,
and people that can flourish. And that's like obviously true,
but that is not what the tech giants belief. And
the tech giants, some of them might have these like
sincere libertarian positions that I think are insane, but they
may like genuinely believe that UBI is, you know, the

(37:12):
peak version of humanity.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
But it's not a conservative belief.

Speaker 5 (37:16):
It might be a libertarian belief, it's definitely not a
conservative belief.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
And that's what I think.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
You're still right, crsal Like, that's where this is all
heading is the UBI band aid is going to be
applied in ways that's like all right, sorry, humans, you
guys can't do this as well as our l ms
and our lms inside our robots. So just be content
with this, you know, two thousand dollars a month or
whatever it is, and you know, get in your autonomous

(37:44):
vehicle and.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
That's where it's going.

Speaker 5 (37:48):
It's exactly what we were talking about, which is when
you don't actually want to do the hard work of
having a well regulated market, very hard work to do
because you're swamped by lobbyists all of the time to
create a market that is in their direction one way
or the other. Substis can be a tool towards that,
but also so can deregulation. So that's much harder work

(38:11):
to have a fair market and a place where people
actually can you know, create small businesses where they can
have meaningful lives and thrive through the dignity of work.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
Nope, we're just going to get UBI.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
It's easy, yeah, UBI and no Epstein files.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
Emily, that's just the name of your next book, which
is that we do a breaking Epstein news to get to.
So let's go ahead and move on to that story.
Congressman Rocana is going to join us in just a bit.
We have breaking news for everyone.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
This morning.

Speaker 5 (38:47):
The House Oversight Committee's Democrats released several emails from Jeffrey
Epstein giln Maxwell and author Michael Wolfe that offer more
insight into Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. We can
go through some of these emails. We're going to put
them up on the screen. My goodness. So, first of all,

(39:07):
twenty eleven, you have Jeffrey Epstein emailing Gelan Maxwell saying
I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't
barked is Trump redacted victim's name, spent hours at my
house with him. He has never once been mentioned, police chief, etc.
I'm seventy five percent there, Maxwell responded again, this is
twenty eleven, April of twenty eleven.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
I have been thinking about that. Dot dot dot.

Speaker 5 (39:31):
Another set of emails here, fast forward to twenty fifteen.
This is Jeffrey Epstein. December of twenty fifteen. CNN is
hosting a primary debate for Republicans as Donald Trump is
completely racketing.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
Up in the polls.

Speaker 5 (39:47):
I hear CNN Epstein what Michael wolf writes to Epstein.
I hear CNN is playing to ask Trump tonight about
his relationship with you, either on air or in scrum afterwards.
I want to just pause there, by the way, for
a moment. This is my Wolf pulling a little bit
of what a Donna Brazil like tipping off Jeffrey Epstein
to something in the gossip in the milieu surrounding Michael

(40:10):
Wolf about a question in a presidential debate. Epstein replies,
if we were able to craft and answer for him,
what do you think it should be? So basically Wolf
and Epstein are trying to preemptively give Donald Trump a
little something to work with that might be beneficial to
them in the long run. Here is Wolf who styles

(40:31):
himself as a journalist who is critical of Donald Trump
and is something of a crystal Do you have any
like you have any thoughts on this Wolf? Part of
it all because it's making me so mad that I
can't even really speak. To see these emails, it's not
surprising in any way whatsoever, But to see how involved

(40:51):
he was and then to watch him try to claim
the moral high ground as like an Instagram TikTok celebrity
is deeply, deeply irritating.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Well, I think you see a window into his methods
in particular where I mean this is part of how
he in the first Trump White House apparently was a fixture,
like just hanging out there all the time, and clearly
he gives people the sense of like I'm on your side,
I'm giving you advice, like we're in this thing together.
And then that's how he ingratiates himself to wealthy, powerful

(41:23):
or in the case of you know, Jeffrey Epstein, wealthy,
powerful and notorious people and is able to write about it.
And Michael Wolfe has been, you know, out there talking about, Hey,
I've seen pictures of Donald Trump with girls of uncertain age.
I've you know, here's what Epstein told me about Trump.
He also claimed that Epstein had a lot of insider
knowledge into Trump's first administration, so still had a lot

(41:45):
of connectivity there. In any case with regard to this
you know this question, Abo, he might get asked a
debate question about this. CNN did not ask him about
Epstein at that debate. Probably would have been a good
question to ask him, but that didn't get asked at
that debate or in the scroll. And then do you
have the other email, Emily where they're talking about Trump

(42:05):
spending hours with one of the victims.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
Yes, so this is from twenty nineteen, and this is
from Jeffrey Epstein to Michael Wolfe. So it says victim
name redacted, mar A Lago redacted. Trump said, he asked
me to resign, never a member. Ever, of course he
knew about the girls. He asked Gilaine to stop. And

(42:28):
this is after, by the way, back in twenty fifteen
that Wolf emailed the advice from Michael Wolf to Jeffrey
Epstein about potentially crafting a response to hand Donald Trump
was I think you should let him hang himself. If
he says he hasn't been on the plane or to
the house, then that gives you a valuable pr and
political currency. You can hang him in a way that
potentially generates a positive benefit for you, or if it

(42:50):
really looks like he could win, you could save him
generating a debt. Interesting line right there. Of course, Wolf continues,
it is possible that when he'll say, Jeffrey is a
great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is
a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed
in a Trump regime. Now when he says, of course
Trump knew about the girls. This is from Jeffrey Epstein,

(43:12):
he asked Glaine to stop. That is, in the strangest
way ever, confirmation of what Donald Trump has said, which
is also, in the strangest way ever, confirmation that he
clearly knew as he alluded to in media reports before
he was president, before Epstein became such a mythical figure.

(43:33):
Trump said, Jeffery likes him on the younger side. He
said recently, I think he was on Air Force one
within just the last few months saying, yeah, they were
stealing girls from mar A Lago, which is exactly what
happened to Virginia. Jeffrey, who was working at mar A
Lago was poached by Gilan Maxwell at mar A Lago.

(43:53):
So these emails, again, these are ones released by the
Democrats on the House Oversight Committee. As the Guy government
shut down ends, Mike Johnson is going to face enormous
pressure to bring an epscene vote to the floor. There
may even be a discharge petition that goes around Mike
Johnson to bring some of this to the floor. So Chrystal,
no surprise that we are starting to see these as

(44:14):
the government looks poised to reopen, hopefully forcing a vote.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, and Trump even got asked specifically, was when you're
talking about they were stealing girls from mar A Lago,
are you talking about Virginia Guffray, and he said something
to the effect of, yeah, I think, I think I
am I think I am talking about her. And so
it is strange the way that their two stories in
a sense confirm each other, because Jeffrey says, of course
he knew because we were taking girls from there and

(44:41):
he told Galaine to stop, so he knew exactly what
was going on. And then you add to that the
color of he spent hours with a victim, and then
him pondering like, why isn't why isn't Donald Trump getting
mentioned in all of the coverage surrounding me, And you know,
I mean that would be that would be a sort
of head scratching thing, given how close we know that

(45:03):
they their lives were intertwined for years and years where
you know, again, according to Michael Wolf and Jeffrey Epstein,
Epstein and Trump were besties.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
They were super close.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
They were hanging out in New York City, they were
hanging out down in Palm Beach. You know, both living
this sort of high flying lifestyle, both of them loving women,
in Epstein's case, girls, and so you know, these paint
helped it to fill in some of that portrait. And
yesterday Soger and I covered the unbelievable special treatment that

(45:37):
Gleainne Maxwell is getting in her club fed prison. First
of all, she's not even supposed to be in this
club fed prison because she's a sex offender. That's number one.
Number two, they're providing her with extraordinary perks, what they
described as concierge service. One of the prison officials said,
I'm tired of being Glene Maxwell's bitch because she's getting
She got a freaking puppy, she got special meals, she

(46:00):
gets to go to the exercise area when no one
else is there. She gets to have these long meetings
where people bring in computers so she can communicate with
the outside world in whatever kind of way she wants.
Oh and lo and behold, she's filling out her application
for a presidential commutation. Gee, why is she getting such
special treatment? I wonder? I mean, it doesn't take a

(46:22):
genius to figure out. Trump is afraid of what she
has on him, what she would say about him, and
so he is directing his administration to make sure you
keep Galaine happy, do what you need. And every time
that he gets asked about a potential partner commutation for
Glene Maxwell, he de Marse. He will not say one

(46:43):
way or another whether he would consider that, because you know,
as soon as she got moved to Club Fed and
started getting this cushy treatment, well that's when the leaks
to the Wall Street Journal and other places about the
birthday book and other things. That's when those leaks stopped.
So again, put two and two together, you can likely see, Okay,
those initial leaks were kind of a shot across the bell, like, hey,
here's a little taste of what I might have, what

(47:05):
I might be able to say about you. And again,
given their long history together and the incredibly guilty and
bizarre way that the Trump administration has acted around the
Epstein files, you know, it's I don't think anyone should
be surprised that some of this is coming out. And Emily,
you know, one example of that is they refused to

(47:27):
swear in Adelita Grihalva for almost two months, seven full weeks.
They refused to swear this lady in, meaning that that
district has no representation whatsoever in Congress, just so they
would not have another vote on that Epstein discharge petition.
Mike Johnson like shut down the entire House and ended

(47:51):
the session to avoid that vote previously. You know, they're
and the way that this has, you know, really undercut
their reputation. As though we're outside we're going to shine
a light on the truth here.

Speaker 9 (48:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
It tells you, babe, he is very concerned about what
could potentially come out and be contained in emails and
government records, in FBI searches, whatever sort of material they
were able to obtain. CIA Ryan and Dropsite have been
doing in Hussein and Murtaza Hussein have been doing the
only reporting, by the way, and extraordinary reporting confirming that

(48:26):
Jeffrey Epstein, yes, in fact, was an Israeli intelligence assets.
So surely the CIA would have a lot to say
about this guy as well. And the Republicans, led by
Trump and Mike Johnson, have gone to extraordinary lengths to
try to keep any of this from becoming public.

Speaker 5 (48:42):
So I'm wondering, actually, if the House Oversight Committee got
these emails from Michael Wolfe, I think that seems to
be the most likely case. It potentially could have come
from Gilan Maxwell, who was meeting with obviously Deputy ag
Todd Blanche over the last several months. That's certainly possible. Well,
Johnson is set to swear in Adelite Girlova today and

(49:06):
that's the vote they need for the discharge petition, which
Thomas Massey I believe Marjorie Tayler Green among other Republicans
are among the Republican Conference support, So that gets them
around Mike Johnson to a vote demanding a release of
all of the Epstein files. And so the House Overside
Committee had that conversation back and forth with Alex Acosta,

(49:29):
former Labor Secretary nominee who dropped out because Vicky Ward's
reporting and other information surrounding the sweetheart deal in Florida
that happened under his watch. Triguerian Epstein and the House
Overside Committee asked, you know about that Vicky Ward quote
from an anonymous source many people speculate to be Steve
Bannon that Acosta says he was told Epstein belonged to

(49:51):
intelligence and to leave him alone. Acosta denied basically that
in spirit, but he wasn't really. I mean, there are
a lot of other ways that that question could have
been posed to him to get around the technicalities of
whether Epstein was an asset or an agent and who
told him what that The House Oversight Committee just did

(50:11):
not get to the bottom of in that interview, at
least according to the transcript of it that we have
so crystal this story to see in writing from Jeffrey
Epstein that Trump has never once been mentioned by police chief, etc.
I don't know what Epstein means when he says I'm
seventy five percent there, but it sounds like maybe he's

(50:33):
speculating that Trump is cooperating with an investigation.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah, I didn't know what that seventy five percent there
piece meant. But I just want to underscore for people
why this matters. You know, Ryan and Mas's reporting has
proven the deep ties that Epstein did in fact have
with the Israeli government and Israeli intelligence specifically. You can
go and read numerous stories at this point based on

(51:02):
the leak of a former's really prime minister's emails, which
also worth noting, as we always do, any mainstream outlet
could have looked at these emails and reported them out.
They're all sitting out there for anyone to report on.
They are the only ones who have put that aside.
So you're the President of the United States, and you know, whatever,

(51:24):
whatever things you did or you know, you're worried that
Jeffrey Epstein knows about you have to assume that the
Israelis know about as well. You have to assume that, right,
And so what kind of pressure does that create in
your relationship? How does that impact your foreign policy and

(51:45):
the way you conduct yourself vis a VI this state.
That's one of the most obvious reasons why this reporting
and getting to the bottom of this is so incredibly,
incredibly important, because even if Jeffrey Epstein, you know, there's
all sorts of reports about the cameras he had and
a sort of documentation he kept, even if he didn't

(52:08):
actually have the goods on whatever it is that Trump
is terrified of coming out about him, and clearly there
are things he is terrified of coming out about him.
Even if Epstein didn't have the goods, you have to
assume that he did, and you have to assume that
he was sharing that information with his very close friends, allies,
business partners in the Israeli government. So I mean that

(52:33):
that is extraordinary and incredibly important for the American people
to know and understand.

Speaker 5 (52:40):
Yeah, I think it is so important because when people
say I think you know Trump, and then some Republicans
who rushed to defend Trump and it happened with Democrats
under the Biden administration, say, this is a silly side show.
It's not in the question of foreign policy, right, you know,
people have important questions on their play every single day

(53:00):
about costs of living and just trying to put food
on the table, keep a job, all of that. Yes,
our foreign policy is downstream of the shadow government in
many ways that we aren't quite aware of. And that
sounds crazy. But go ahead read the emails that the
mainstream media probably isn't covering, so they don't want to

(53:22):
go into what looks like a hack from Iran, but
one that Ryan and Moz are confirming is verifiable by
talking to people saying, is this is these emails? This
is you in this email, Is this a real email,
et cetera. So when you see it put so plainly
in those drop site stories, Jeffrey Epstein and Hooper Rock

(53:42):
were puppet masters and they were doing it, putting it
in writing. We have that evidence for everybody to see.
They were actually pulling the strings of geopolitics and foreign policy,
willing and dealing in their punctuation error laden emails which
Ryan says as a power move. I'm not so sure

(54:03):
that I agree it's a power move. It may just
reflect the actual incompetence. And that is remarkable when you
look at it, because you see how few people have
such disproportionate control over foreign policy. Foreign policy affects domestic policy.
So these are enormously serious questions. And I think, you know,

(54:25):
Epstein is an example of something that is still happening
right now with other names that we just don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
And I think that Trump and the Republicans had hoped
they had kind of put this story to bed. You know,
it was quiet there for a while. We were getting
any new leaks. The Republican efforts, Mike Johnson's efforts at
least to stonewall in the house had been successful. It
was very much on the back burner. And Soccer and
I were talking about this, and what I said is,

(54:53):
but this is the sort of thing that can erupt
back into the public consciousness at any time, because it's
completely unresis and you know, I think a lot of
maga that were upset about it first kind of made
their peace with it, kind of like bought into some
convoluted like, oh, actually, Trump is playing the Deep States somehow,
or they're fake or Clinton comy whatever. They just were like,

(55:13):
all right, we're just gonna move on. When things like
this come out, makes it pretty hard for you to
just like close your eyes and pretend like nothing's happening
here and pretending like pretend like this is all fine,
especially when you have a voice, a running gade voice
like Marjorie Taylor Green out there, who is willing to
make her own side uncomfortable for whatever reason she's doing it.
She is that voice right now, willing to make her

(55:35):
own side uncomfortable. So, you know, we talked about the
Maga revolt. When you have a president who was just
weakened by an extraordinary electoral defeat for his party really
across the board, you know, he's effectively already a lame
duck at least is not legally allowed to run for

(55:57):
another term. Is aging very clearly in front of our eyes,
you know, sleeping through White House events at this point,
and outsourcing major parts of his administration to his aids,
seems to only really care about, like his his parties
at mar A Lago and his renovations. Yeah, when you
have all of those sorts of things, then people start

(56:17):
to feel a little bit bolder about their criticism and
start to be looking at and constantly Okay, well, what
is the world after Trump going to look like? And
where is the place to be? How to position myself
in that world? So I think even as you know
Democrats just capitulated in Anthony and are embarrassing and all
of that sort of stuff, you also have Trump at

(56:38):
a becoming increasingly sort of weakened in his own administration.
Approval rating is very low. You know, some errors starting
to come at him from his own side, economic troubles,
and you know a lot of unfulfilled promises, and then
you add this to the mix. It's not it's a
it's a pretty pretty challenging landscape for him.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
I would say, right, yeah, I think for those elections
last week, it's becoming clearly the administration that they're approaching
the one year mark. And after you get past that
one year itch, as we've talked, as we've talked about
Crystal before in the show today, you can't keep blaming Biden.
I mean you can, but whether or not you're successful
at continuing to blame the Biden administration or inherited. Yeah,

(57:19):
people are not going to buy it, and you are
mister draining the swamp, so as emails come out showing
you part of a swamp.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
And then when you campaign, you know, when you're not.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
In power, it's easy to say, yeah, yeah, we'll release
the Epstein emails, even though Trump was a little bit
more hesitant about those than JFP files and such during
the campaign. But when you're actually in power, you can't
just say like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
We'll get to that. We'll get to that. You know,
you actually you have to look like you're draining the swamp.

Speaker 5 (57:44):
If that's the predicate for your political career. That's where
you see the people like Marjory Taylor Green and Thomas
Massey breaking away from Trump on that particular question.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
All right, guys, very fortunate on last minute notice here
to get congresson Rocanna to join us this morning. Of course,
he has been the Democrat leading the push to get
the Epstein files released. Great to see you congresson.

Speaker 7 (58:09):
Two breaking point appearances in the same week. Must be
my lucky week here.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
I love our lucky week. Yeah, people were very interested
in what you had to say last time. I have
a suspicion they're going to be very interested in what
you have to say today as well. So Emily and
I just went through some of the new emails that
were released tying Donald Trump directly to Jeffrey Epstein. The
first question for you is just why are these emails
coming out now? What was the sort of chain of
events that led to these revelations.

Speaker 10 (58:35):
Well, you know, I was on Laurence o'donald about three
months ago, and the attorney for the survivors is the
guest right before me, and he says, I don't understand
why no one has subpoena the Epstein estate, and shockingly
Pam Bondi Cash Battel and no one in Congress had
done it. So I talked to Comer. I said, we've
got to get these documents. To his credit, he's subpoena's

(58:58):
the Epstein estate, and the Epstein Estate has been producing
these documents gripped by Grip by grip, And today, of
course comes out the first time some of the emails
thing that Trump knew about the abuse of these young
girls and the guilty conduct. And I expect four more
documents are going to be coming out over the next

(59:18):
couple of months.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Is the I mean, I was speculating earlier that maybe
these emails came from Michael Wolfe or Glane. Are you
able to tell us anything about that, congressman.

Speaker 10 (59:30):
Not the specifics of who they're coming from other than
the Epstein estate, and that the estate has thousands of
more documents.

Speaker 7 (59:40):
But what this really says is we've got to get
the full release.

Speaker 10 (59:42):
We shouldn't be relying on the Epstein estate to be
giving us piecemeal documents.

Speaker 7 (59:48):
We have the full files at the Justice Department.

Speaker 10 (59:52):
Those files have all of the interviews that were taken
with men who abuse these young girls, with people were
involved in the cover up. And today, as you know,
Adlita Grihovo gets worn in, we get two hundred and
eighteen signatures, and that triggers a boat in seven days
in the house to release these files. The bombshell document

(01:00:13):
dropped today, I think is going to increase the stakes
of just saying get this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Out there, yeah, no doubt about it, and just your
reaction to what we learned today. So we had emails
from Jeffrey Epstein saying, first of all, of course Trump
knew about what was going on with the girls because
he told Galene Maxwell to stop. He also claimed that
Trump had spent hours with one of the victims. You
also see him strategizing with Michael Wolfe about a potential

(01:00:40):
question to Donald Trump in the debates during twenty fifteen.
Those questions didn't end up getting asked, but in any case,
interesting to see them strategizing back and forth. You see
them talking about how surprised they are that Trump hasn't
been brought up in the context of Jeffrey Epstein in
a more significant way given their long standing ties. So

(01:01:01):
what is your reaction to the content of these emails?

Speaker 7 (01:01:04):
Well, this whole Epstein class needs to go.

Speaker 10 (01:01:06):
The issue in American politics is and left or right,
it's are you for working ordering Americans?

Speaker 7 (01:01:11):
Are you for this Epstein class? And this is what's
all forant about those emails.

Speaker 10 (01:01:14):
It's not just rich and powerful men who may have
abused and raped young girls. It's a lot of rich
and powerful people who knew that the abuse was going
on and did nothing about it and actually still solicited
Epstein for funding and we're friends with Epstein and just
swept it under the rock.

Speaker 9 (01:01:35):
And what these.

Speaker 10 (01:01:35):
Emails show is Donald Trump was aware of what was
going on and that it was such a culture of
abuse that people just thought, Oh, this is just the
way the world works. Well, their time is up. People
are sick of it. Anyone involved in this stuff needs
to move aside. We need to have a moral cleansing
in this country.

Speaker 5 (01:01:55):
And Congressman, just if this discharge petition goes through is
I think everyone can do the math and expect it
to at this point, what ways might the White House
and the Administration.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
Have to wiggle around?

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
What do we expect potentially to see from them, assuming
that they try to continue blocking access to some of
those files. What could we expect in terms of their
methods of blocking release.

Speaker 10 (01:02:18):
Well, first of all, there's a full core press today
to try to get one of these Republicans to drop
before Adelita Grihovo get sworn in at four pm. I'm
pretty confident they won't. But it's not done until four
four o'clock.

Speaker 7 (01:02:31):
And then Johnson has.

Speaker 10 (01:02:34):
Dozens of procedural motions he can try to obstruct it.
I mean, we could spend the whole day talking about
the tools he has. The confidence I have, though, is
that there are a lot of Republicans who do not
want the discharge petition tool to be rendered useless. They
want to use it to get a bill on banning
stock trading, they want to use it to.

Speaker 7 (01:02:55):
Get boats on other reforms.

Speaker 11 (01:02:59):
So I hope the coalition will hold to say no,
you've got to bring this for a vote, because what
Johnson stops our petition for getting a voute, that will
hurt Luna and Chip Roy and any Republican who wants
to bring any bill using that mechanism.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Congressman, do you have any other plans to you know,
public event awareness raising to sort of focus in scrutiny
on the lack of transparency on the Epstein files and
on the horrific abuse of these women.

Speaker 7 (01:03:29):
We do.

Speaker 10 (01:03:29):
We have a press conference that Thomas Massey, Marjorie Taylor
Green and I are planning next week, and a number
of survivors from around the country are going to be
flying in, some who have.

Speaker 7 (01:03:39):
Not spoken out before.

Speaker 10 (01:03:42):
You know, Mike Johnson keeps thinking, Okay, if you just
shut down Congress long enough, people are going to forget.
But he doesn't realize that this story has gripped the
American people. They know there was horrific acts that were committed,
and I think when they hear from these women again,
these brave women next week. It's going to make where
that we have action and an overwhelming vote in the

(01:04:02):
House of Representatives.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
Well, please keep us updated as always.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Car Yeah, yeah, thank you for joining us last minute Congress.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Been great to see you appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (01:04:11):
Grank to see as always. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
Chrystal.

Speaker 5 (01:04:17):
You have an interview with the likely new mayor of
Seattle that we should get to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Yeah, so just heads up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I recorded this interview with Katie Wilson yesterday the vote count.
At that point, she was up by ninety one votes
in the vote count. Another drop has come since I
interviewed with her. Now she's up by a larger margin.
I think it's roughly one thousand to two thousand votes.
The later votes that are coming in are more in
her favor, so the expectation it's probably going to recount,

(01:04:44):
just because of the narrowness of the margin, But it
looks very likely she is going to be the next
mayor of Seattle. Progressive insurgent taking on and incumbent, so
some some sort of Mum Donnie West Coast Mum Donnie vibes.
I would say she's very different character from him, but
also really centered affordability and housing affordability in particular in

(01:05:04):
her campaign, both as a way to deliver for voters
across the board and also a way to tackle a
chronic homelessness issue that Seattle has continued to suffer from.
So with all of that being said, let's go ahead
and take a listen to my interview with Katie Wilson.
So I am super excited to talk to our next
guest this morning. Katie Wilson is the co founder executive
director of the Transit Writers Union. She is also the

(01:05:28):
progressive candidate for mayor in the city of Seattle, locked
in an extraordinarily close race with the current mayor, Bruce Harrell,
and she joins us now, Welcome Katie.

Speaker 9 (01:05:38):
Great to be here, Crystal.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
So I've been following your race for the past couple
of weeks. You know, incumbent who's more I think politically centrist.
You're more the progressive, kind of insurgent outsider candidate, coming
in very close race all the way along, and as
of yesterday, based on the mail drops, you have now taken.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
A ninety one one vote lead.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
So first question for you, you know, just give us
a little bit of the sense of the dynamics of
this race, what ballots still remain, and whether your expectation
is that you will be the next mayor of the
city of Seattle.

Speaker 10 (01:06:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:06:16):
So the way that we do elections here in Washington
State is that it's all by mail, so everyone in
mails in their ballots. We also have ballot drop boxes
around the city. And there's a very consistent pattern that
more progressive voters, younger voters tend to vote late, and
so what you'll see is that the election night results.
There's actually fairly a large shift between election night and

(01:06:38):
the final results toward the more progressive or left leaning candidate.
So on election night, I was at forty six percent.
Now I've pulled ahead by ninety one votes, as you said,
and there's another about ten thousand ballots out there still
to be counted, mostly from election day, mostly skewing younger.
So we're really hopeful that that margin will liden. It's
possible that there will be a recount because the margin

(01:07:00):
will still be very small, but we're feeling really good
about this race.

Speaker 9 (01:07:04):
At this point.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Incredible, absolutely incredible. So tough tests just a little bit
for people who have not been following this race closely
as I confess, I actually wasn't until the last couple
of weeks before the election. Tell people about the incumbent
Mayor Bruce Harrel, your issues with his leadership, and then
the platform that you were running on as a contrast.

Speaker 9 (01:07:23):
Yeah, sure thing.

Speaker 12 (01:07:23):
So I mean my background, I'm a community organizer, a
coalition builder, and so for the past fourteen years, I've
been leading this organization that I co founded back in
twenty eleven called the Transit Writers' Union, and we basically
fight on economic justice issues. So I've led campaigns to
raise the minimum wage to the highest in the country
in several cities around King County, fought for stronger renter

(01:07:46):
protections in Seattle and other cities around King County. Fought
for progressive taxation, so we have a landmark tax on
wealthy corporations in Seattle called the Jumpstart Tax that I
played a big role in designing and passing. And then
of course public transit right as the name of the
organization suggests, fighting for better public transit, and we've won
a bunch of affordable and free fair programs for lower

(01:08:09):
income riders for youth. So that's the kind of work
that I've done over the years, it's very grassroots community organizing,
coalition building, and I really have never had the ambition
to run for elected office until this year. And so
this early this year we had an election on funding
Seattle's new social housing developer through attacks on wealthy corporations,

(01:08:32):
and our current Mayor, Bruce Harral was kind of the
face of the opposition campaign, and he's done a lot
in office to try to undermine Social Housing, which is
a kind of a new project for Seattle that a
grassroots campaign put on the ballot last year. And nevertheless,
this funding measure to fund the developer passed by a landslide,
and so that really showed me that our current mayor,

(01:08:53):
Bruce Harel is out of touch with the issues that
people are facing in their daily lives. And I think
the affordability crisis is really right up there at the top.
And you know, when I jumped into this race, I've
never heard of zoron Mondani, but it's very clear that
there are some similar dynamics playing out across the country
where coming out of the pandemic with really high rates
of inflation, the cost of housing in high cost cities

(01:09:16):
like Seattle is just really out of control. Rents just
keep going up and up. Home prices are out of
reach for anyone wanting to buy a home, and then
everything else, from childcare to food to groceries, everything.

Speaker 9 (01:09:26):
Is just really really expensive.

Speaker 12 (01:09:27):
And people are feeling that, right, not just the lowest
income households, but people up to kind of middle class
people who have decent jobs are just like, can't believe
how expensive everything is. So I think that's definitely a
dynamic in this race where the work that I've done
over the years and what I want to tackle as
mayor is in this affordability crisis. And really we also
have this extremely bad homelessness crisis here in Seattle. We

(01:09:51):
actually have rates of unsheltered homelessness that are much higher
than comparable cities around the country in the US. And
I really, you know, our current mayor, rece he came
into office promising to address issues of homelessness in public safety,
and I think people are looking around and not really
feeling that.

Speaker 9 (01:10:05):
He's succeeded at that.

Speaker 12 (01:10:07):
So that's kind of a local dynamic, But the national
dynamic is affordability. And then I think also obviously Trump
getting elected last fall, right, there's there's a certain brand
of establishment Democratic party politics which utterly failed to stop
the train wreck that was Trump's election. And and so
I think that there's a feeling that people want new
leadership and leadership that's that's not gonna power like that.

(01:10:31):
And I think our current mayor he doesn't break that
mold right like he's he's been the mayor for four years,
but before that he was a council member for twelve years.
So he's kind of part of that kind of centrist
Democratic party establishment that people are pretty upset with right now.
So I think that's also a dynamic in this race.
And so for me, you know, coming coming in as
an outsider, someone who's you know, worked with city worked

(01:10:51):
with city hall, is familiar with the legislative process and
and all that, but at the same time is coming
in as kind of an insurgent candidate. This was the
right moment for that to work, and it looks like
we're going to pull it out by the skin of
our teeth.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
I'd love for you to dig a little bit more
into the contrast in the approach of Bruce Harrel on
homelessness versus you know, what approach did he take and
what did you run on?

Speaker 12 (01:11:15):
Yeah, And I mean, honestly, this is something that I
didn't have super high expectations when he came into office,
kind of knowing who he was from when he was
on council, But I've been deeply disappointed relative to those expectations.
So basically, the current administration's approach has been to sweep
people around the city from place to place without actually
getting people inside. So we basically have thousands of people

(01:11:38):
sleeping on sheltered on the streets, and we have two
homeless people in the Seattle area for every one shelter bed,
and there's been very very little focus of his administration
on actually opening new emergency housing and shelter so that
we can get people inside. Instead, they're spending all this
time and energy just basically telling people you can't be
here and forcing them to move along.

Speaker 9 (01:11:59):
But then like where is supposed to go?

Speaker 12 (01:12:00):
Right? And so that also contributes to our public safety probms, right,
because a lot of people have issues with drug addiction
mental illness, and those aren't being dealt with, and you
can't really deal with those issues if you're sleeping outside.
And so the fact that they're not actually focusing on
getting people inside is just really damning in my mind,
and people are noticing it, right, Like there's you know,

(01:12:21):
people who just rather than small business owners in various
neighborhoods around the city, who you know, they see that
there's like an encampment there and they know that they're like, Okay, well,
the city's going to come and sweep them. But we
know that they're just going to go to the next
neighborhood and then a couple of weeks from now they'll
be back. And so there's this deep frustration with this approach.
So I you know, what I've been saying on the

(01:12:41):
campaign trail is I'm going to really focus on opening
new emergency housing and shelters so that we can actually
revolve encampments by getting people inside rather than just sweeping
them around the city. And we you know, we know
that this works, right. So there's during a pandemic, there
was a program that several nonprofits put together called Just Care,
which basically did that, right, resolved encampments by getting people inside.

(01:13:03):
And at that time it was kind of temporary hotel
that had been repurposed as shelter and was very successful.
So we know that the vast majority of homeless folks
sleeping outside will accept meaningful offers of shelter and support
when that's given to them, and that's just not what
we're doing right now. So that's really the big difference
in our approach there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
And what do you do with the more challenging cases,
you know, people who are suffering from addiction issues or
from mental illness who don't want to accept that, you know,
that offer of shelter. How do you handle those cases?

Speaker 12 (01:13:35):
Yeah, I mean, I think we know from practice that
that ends up being a fairly small percentage of the
homeless population. But you know, the fact is we do
have levers, right, so you know, our laws around involuntary
commitment are governed at the state levels, so changing those
is pretty challenging. But here's the thing, Like, most people

(01:13:55):
who are addicted to drugs, you know, are also engaged
in various forms of criminal behavior, right in order to
obtain drugs or just in order to meet basic needs
almless people, That is right, And and so we have
the ability to, if necessary, arrest people for criminal behavior,

(01:14:19):
and then we have successful diversion programs where because we
also know that just throwing someone in jail like doesn't
work right, and then they're back out of the street
and have been destabilized and or more at risk of overdosing.
But what we can do is put people into a
diversion program where there's basically accountability and there's you know,

(01:14:39):
shelter and services. But that's kind of like offered as
an alternative to the booking and jail kind of route.
And so we have programs that that have been very successful,
and so it's a matter of scaling those up, and
I think that we can if we do that well,
I think that we can address those those toper cases
or the vast majority of them as well.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
And of course, chronic homelessness is a symptom of a
larger housing crisis, as you were speaking to, which affects
absolutely everyone. What are some of the obviously we all
know that the Zoron platform, he's you know, freezing the
rent on rent stabilized departments and then he wants to
surge building bonands of additional two hundred thousand housing units.
What are some of the things you ran on in
terms of housing affordability, because I know that is a

(01:15:19):
major issue in the city of Seattle.

Speaker 4 (01:15:22):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 9 (01:15:22):
So there's a few things.

Speaker 12 (01:15:23):
So one is social housing, which I mentioned right, and
this is the model which is a little bit unfamiliar
in Seattle and a lot of the United States, but
similar to you know, Vienna and Paris and other European
cities which have had really strong social housing sectors for
a long time. And so the idea here is to
begin to build a non market housing sector that's mixed income,

(01:15:45):
so here in Seattle would go up to one hundred
and twenty percent of area median income, which is a
fairly high threshold. And then by having this like publicly
owned and operated permanently affordable housing, you know, once you
get that to a certain scale, that also helps to
moderate rents in the prime of a sector. Now we're
a long way from that, but there's no better time
to start than now. So part of my platform is

(01:16:06):
really having the city and the mayor be a strong
partner in getting the new social housing developer up and
rolling and acquiring buildings and developing buildings. At the same time,
I also believe that we need to make it possible
for the private market to build more housing in our
great neighborhoods around Seattle, and so that means working on
our land use and zoning laws to make that possible,

(01:16:27):
because we have had very restrictive single family zoning laws
and Seattle for a long time, and that's beginning to
loosen up a little bit, but we can go a
lot further than the previous administration has gone. In addition,
so we are not allowed in local jurisdictions in Washington
State to do rent regulation directly, so we can't do
rent control here locally without a change in state law. However,

(01:16:50):
we do have a law called the Economic Displacement Relocation
Assistance Law, which basically said, if your landlord raises your
rent time percent or more and you move out because
you can't afford it, your landlord is spilt to pay
you three times your monthly rent and relocation assistance. So
that's nice, and it also diffincentivizes large rent increases because
landlords don't want to trigger that law. And so one

(01:17:12):
thing that I've talked about is bumping that threshold down
from ten percent to for example, five percent, and so
that would help to disincentivize those larger rent increases. There's
some other things that we can do on the renter
protections front, like regulating or banning rental junk fees something
that happens, especially if you have a corporate landlord in
the United States, there's kind of the sticker price of

(01:17:33):
your apartment, but then there's all these like hidden monthly
fees or hidden annual fees that are kind of in
the fine print, and so you end up paying a
lot more than you think you were going to pay.
So something that the city can do is also regulate
or ban some of those kind of extraneous fees. So
those are a couple of other ideas for how we
can help around the margins. The city can do more
to invest in affordable homeownership programs. There's some other things to do,

(01:17:55):
but it's kind of a whole range of things, right,
There's not one silver bullet, but we kind of need
to do it all the above.

Speaker 9 (01:18:00):
Yeah. Kay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
My last question for you is, you know, I'd love
for you to zoom ount and talk a little bit
more broadly about the political trends within Seattle. I saw
a tweet about this, so forgive me you can correct
if this analysis tweet analysis was incorrect. But basically they said,
you know, there were a lot of progressive legislators in Seattle,
and then there was after Black Lives Matter and the pandemic,
there was kind of a backlash and that's when people

(01:18:23):
like Bruce Harrel and other war like centrist types get
elected to the city council. And now, with Harold's likely defeat,
that wave of the backlash wave has now been swept
out by a more progressive cohort. And so, first of all,
is that sort of accurate your view of the way
that Seattle politics has swung back and forth? And then
how what is most important to you in order to

(01:18:45):
make sure that there isn't another sort of backlash swing
to the center after your mayoralty.

Speaker 12 (01:18:50):
Yeah, that's a really good question. And so yeah, I
think that picture that you laid out is fairly accurate.
So we had a pretty darn progressive city council for
about a decade, and that included council members, the former
council members Shamasa Want who is you know, a socialist
city council member. And now one thing to note though,
is that during that time when we had a very

(01:19:11):
progressive council, we had pretty centrist mayors and so that
really that dynamic kind of cramped the council's style in
a sense, in terms of their ability to get things
not just passed, but.

Speaker 9 (01:19:22):
Really like implemented well.

Speaker 12 (01:19:24):
And then yes, after twenty twenty and Black Lives Matter,
there was a there was a backlash. And so then
we had actually our current mayor elected and a very
for Seattle, very very centrist or right leaning compared to
usual city council. So this year, with hopefully my election

(01:19:45):
but then also a couple of council members and the
new city attorney, things are swinging back in a progressive direction.
Now we have kind of staggered elections. So this year
there was only well for complicated reasons three, but normally
there would be two at large council positions up for elections.
So there's seven district council elections seats which will be
up for election in two years. So right now, assuming

(01:20:07):
that I win this race, right, we'll have me and
the mayor's office, and we'll have several very progressive council members,
but the bulk of we don't have a strong progressive
majority on the council yet, but that could happen in
twenty twenty seven. Now, in order for that to happen
in twenty twenty seven, you asked about kind of what

(01:20:28):
needs to.

Speaker 9 (01:20:28):
Be accomplished in the next couple of years.

Speaker 12 (01:20:30):
I really think that, you know, I have a lot
of ambitious progressive policy.

Speaker 9 (01:20:37):
Dreams in my platform, but.

Speaker 12 (01:20:40):
I really think what I'm going to be judged on,
what my administration is going to be judged on, first
and foremost, is homelessness in public safety. And I really
think that in the first couple of years, we're going
to need to drill down and make progress on those
really basic quality of life issues and show I think
we have an opportunity here for people on the progressive
left to bey show that we can actually govern. And

(01:21:01):
so there's going to be I'm going to be paying
a lot of attention to the work that needs to
happen to basically get City Hall, the city bureaucracy moving
in a good direction, actually delivering services for the people
of Seattle, and hopefully pioneering a new model of kind
of responsive government and communication with the people where we're
really explaining what we're doing and why and if we're
coming up against obstacles, here's why. And I think this

(01:21:24):
is a similar challenge that I think, you know, Mom
Donnie's going to face in New York City where there's
a lot of really ambitious things that we want to
get done, but there's also real obstacles.

Speaker 6 (01:21:32):
Right.

Speaker 12 (01:21:32):
It's like the reason why these things haven't been done
is complicated, and there's really entrenched interests that are going
to fight against it. And so we're going to need
to be able to tell a story of the things
that we're fighting for, the progress that we're making, but
also the reason why we're not. It's not moving faster, right,
So that's going to be big. And you know, I mean,
like I'm in this race, right there was more corporate

(01:21:53):
pack spending against me than has ever been spent in
a Seattle race against a candidate, and a lot of
those same trists are also going to want.

Speaker 9 (01:22:01):
To undermine my administration.

Speaker 12 (01:22:02):
And so I'm going into this with I think clear
riot about the challenges, the political challenges as well as
the practical challenges of implementing my agenda. And I mean,
it's going to be a massive challenge, but I'm really
excited about it as well.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
Katie, I really appreciate you taking the time. I know
you're probably like super busy right now and really in
the thick of things. I won't say congratulations yet because
I don't want to. I don't want to jinx the result.
But I'm very excited to see what you do with
the position. And I hope you'll come back and check
in with us in the future.

Speaker 9 (01:22:33):
I would love to thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
Yeah, it's our pleasure.

Speaker 5 (01:22:36):
Super interesting interview, Crystal, and we should mention programming note,
we have moved the block. We have not canceled the
block on mar A Lago Face that we tease at
the beginning of the show. We have simply moved it
to the Friday show because of the breaking Epstein news.
But the benefit of that is now Ryan will be
with us to weigh in, and we know that Ryan

(01:22:57):
is going to have something great to say about mar
A Lago Face.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
He will say something that none of us expect. He'll
tie it into some personal experience he had as a
plastic surgeon when he was twenty three or something, as
a plastics who knows who knows Yngram is going to
bring to the table in the mar A Lago Face conversation,
But we wanted to make sure that it was inclusive.
You know, it felt a little bit because men are
also getting their version of the Marra a lago face.

(01:23:22):
So I think it is better actually in the end
that we exactly not.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
Naming names, Matt Gates.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
It is better in the end that we have a
more inclusive, diverse panel of voices to discuss this phenomenon.

Speaker 4 (01:23:34):
That's right. I think that's well said, Crystal.

Speaker 5 (01:23:37):
So if you want to see, well, I don't know
if we'll keep that in the second half where maybe
we'll bring it out for everyone TPD. But if you
don't want to miss it no matter what, then go
subscribe for a premium membership over at breaking Points dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:23:49):
You get the second half of the Friday Show.

Speaker 5 (01:23:51):
You also get the show every day in your inbox,
early full version of it, no ads, no nothing, It's
right there.

Speaker 4 (01:23:58):
In your inbox.

Speaker 5 (01:23:58):
So go ahead and subscribe over at Breakingpoints dot com. Crystal,
thanks for being here today.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
Fun one interesting one, never a dull moment.

Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
That's all right, all right, well, crystalin Soccer will be
back with you all tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (01:24:10):
I'll see you Friday. Have a great day.

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