11/14/25: MSM IGNORES Israel in Epstein, Groypers Occupy Trump Admin?, Mass AI Hack REVEALED

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 4 (00:30):
Good morning everyone, how's it going.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
It's going good. Nice to have Ryan back from his
overseas trip.

Speaker 5 (00:36):
Good to be back. How's everything ready? That's right.

Speaker 6 (00:42):
You have a giant toolbag under your right, your desk, of.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Course, building something. What's going on down there in.

Speaker 5 (00:48):
This basement is something else you guys wouldn't know.

Speaker 7 (00:50):
It's he's like that TikTok lady who's like tunneling into
the basement, creating a labyrinth under.

Speaker 5 (00:57):
It that.

Speaker 6 (01:01):
I'll send you some linked I.

Speaker 5 (01:03):
Was at that conference called Web Summit in Lisbon Portugal,
which is there's some media, but it's mostly tech and
seventy eighty thousand people come to it. It's like the
biggest tech conference in the world. And it was just
all AI slop, like a complete AI takeover of the
of the tech scene. Although interestingly, the most interesting thing

(01:26):
there was a rumor kicking around that when when this
is over they have they have like a couple more
years on their contract in Lisbon, that they might might
take it to China, which would be Wow, it would
be a real shot across the American tech bow if that, Yeah,
that actually happened. They do, want to know they do
one in Vancouver, they do one and I think so Paulo,

(01:46):
but the main one has been in Lisbon since it
was moved out of Dublin.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Maybe I was seeing some some good news for the AI,
the American AI industry, which is we might get to
this in the show, this big hack that happened first,
like major hack that happened using AI tools with very
little human involvement. They did use US AI tools, American
AI tools, so a win for us.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Until I was pointing that.

Speaker 5 (02:09):
Out, incredible, we have a propic. Yeah, yeah, it's a
lot but it's the most transparent of the monstrous AI companies.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah that's right, Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 8 (02:22):
So we got a lot of stories this Friday Packed
Friday Show. We've got more Epstein stuff. We're going to
be looking at an article that Emily wrote an unheard
about the groupers and how many actually are there.

Speaker 7 (02:34):
We've even describe this segment as the Groypersensus, so that's
how we're going to refer to it.

Speaker 8 (02:38):
That's right, which is now an official yearly sense valuable.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Public service you're providing there. Thank you.

Speaker 8 (02:44):
As Crystal mentioned, we've got artificial intelligence, cyber attacks. And
then we have a guest Crystal, who are we having
on this Friday show.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, so we've got Peggy Flan again. She's the current
Lieutenant governor of Minnesota, which is interesting in its own right,
you know, working closely with Tim Wallasey's they were mates together,
and then she's now running for US Senate in Minnesota.
She's in the Democratic primary against a sort of moderate
to conservative Democrat named Angie Craig who worked in the
medical device industry before coming into Congress.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
So should be an interesting one.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Peggy Flann again is you know, broadly sort of progressive
on the left type of candidate, so interesting.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Interested to chat with her, you know.

Speaker 5 (03:22):
And I got a video of Angie Craig being a
little crazy at a town hall and that I hadn't
done anything with yet, so maybe I'll play that for
Peggy Flan again. Get hurry out to it. She's getting
challenged at a like an auction dinner about Gaza and
just shouts back at the person, We're not a cult. Basically,

(03:44):
It's like it's very bizarre and weird because I didn't
even know what to do with this, Like this is
so weird, what do we do with this? But anyway,
I figured out what I'm gonna do with it. I'll
post it by the time she comes on, and we're speaking.

Speaker 8 (03:53):
Of speaking of hidden troves, Ryan sitting in a lot
of hidden troves.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
But let's get a little bit to the Epstein stuff.

Speaker 8 (03:59):
Ryan had hadn't been on this week, so he really
wanted to hear from Ryan about his reaction. The one
thing I wanted to note. It seems like the new
vibe or the new perspective is that, well, maybe Trump
may have had sexual interactions with fifteen year olds, but
you know, like maybe not younger kids, and the White
House went and posted a video of him interacting with children.

(04:25):
Can't can't help but think that this might be somewhat
related to the news this week him handing out pens.
So yes, the White House confirms he's okay with eight
year olds. But Ryan, you know, my first question to
you is, with all this Epstein news, did all this
come out because of they wanted to cover up the
drop site reporting about his Israel connections, because it seems

(04:46):
like that has not been mentioned at all this week
for the mainstream media.

Speaker 5 (04:50):
I don't know, you know, I try to not get
too conspiratorial in what when things come out, why they
come out. You know, could well the.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Reason I came out now, I mean, in part Rokanna
came on our show and said, hey, me and James
Comer actually did the subpoena of the Epstein the state,
and they've just been releasing things in batches. And then
the other reason Epstein is big this week is actually
because of the end of the government shutdown, which allowed
Adelidea Grihalva to so as So much as I would

(05:19):
like to imagine a drop site centered conspiracy, I don't
actually think that's what's going on.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
I agree, I tend to agree with that, yes on
Griffin on your point, I think you're referencing that the
cringe like Megan Kelly boughtya segment where you know, they
seem to be they're actually mission structure for barely legal
type of illegal activity. But I don't I mean, so far,

(05:45):
you know, I Trump is obviously all over these files
because his administration has basically said he is, and he's
going to the mat to keep him you know, to
keep them from getting released. So he's letting the entire
world know he's guilty. But so far, Whatmocrats released I
didn't think was necessarily that impressive about Trump. You know,

(06:07):
Like I guess the best thing we can talk about
this sect that was the Epstein saying that, you know,
he had told the Russians that he's got some dirt
on Trump or something like that, and Epstein telling people,
you know, if Trump says he didn't fly on the plane,
he's a flat out liar. You know, if Trump says
he's never been to the mansion, he's a flat out liar.

(06:27):
We all, we kind of already knew that that he'd
been on the plane, that he'd been, that he'd been
in the mansion. You know, there's videos of him and Epstein.
He Epstein were very close friends until they apparently had
this falling out because Epstein kept poaching girls from mar
A Lago into his like trafficking operation, and I think
and Trump was like, these are these people work for me?

(06:49):
I don't think he was like chivalrous and like opposed
to whatever Epstein was going to do with him, but
it's like, it's hard to hire people. It's annoying. Now
I got to hire new people. So I think it
was more along those lines.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
They also had that falling out. They also had that
falling out over the war a real estate some sort
of a real estate deal.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
And then there's a suggestion, you know, the one email
where he's like that one dog that has embarked is
Trump and then he says something something police chief, I'm
seventy five percent there, like very cryptic. There's also some
theorizing that Epstein thinks Trump may actually have tipped off
the police chief that ends up doing the investigation that
then gets scuttled by alex Acosta whatever.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
But yeah, go on, Ryan, finish finished.

Speaker 5 (07:34):
So that's that is a funny kind of twist if
like Trump, out of spite over some real estate deal,
called the cops on his friend and ended up then
entangling himself fifteen twenty years later in this entire reckless controversy.

(07:56):
But yeah, thee the coverage of the Putin and Epstein
connection coming out of the latest email was the one
that kind of jumped out of me the most. It's like,
all right, good, that's interesting. You can write about that.
Maybe in your second paragraph you could mention that Epstein
worked with the Israeli government to set up a back
channel to Putin, Like that feels that also feels relevant.

(08:18):
It feels like they're the amount of gymnastics and contortions
they're going to to make news out of these drops
without mentioning the country of Israel and the connections that
he has to Israel. Even as we have the inbox
of Ahud Barak, his very good friend, to go through,
we have the inbox of Ambassador Proser to go through.

(08:42):
We have enormous amounts of contextual information coming from the
House Oversight Committee to establish that he was working directly
with Israeli intelligence, So you can argue about what he
was doing he's working with them. We even as we
published this week and you guys talked about he's even
wiring money, so like Israeli intelligence official, like getting wire

(09:07):
transferred data from Barack. It's like this can maybe work
its way into the coverage at some point, but it
feels like it's acceptable at this point for the media
to just talk about the sex trafficking part of it,
but they will not touch the rest of it.

Speaker 7 (09:24):
Well, I just want to say, like, what we can
expect to see out of these fsteines disclosures for the
next several decades are exactly what we saw this week.
Twenty thousand emails here there, and you get pieces.

Speaker 6 (09:34):
Of a big puzzle.

Speaker 7 (09:35):
You don't even know what the picture of the puzzle
you're assembling is, and so you just have this scattering
of pieces scraps. It's exactly like what we've gotten in
the John F. Kennedy assassination stuff. It'll stretch into decades
and you'll get really fascinating tidbits, like that dog that
hasn't barked yet is frump and it'll be gesturing at
something like fascinating, intriguing and important, but there's no smoking gun.

(09:58):
The government is going to just those to us. We're
not going to see it buried in twenty thousand email
dump dump from the estate. Any smoking gun has probably
been destroyed, and they're certainly not going to put it
in the twenty thousand email dump randomly on one day
from the estate.

Speaker 6 (10:14):
But what we can do is see this picture emerging
through literally only.

Speaker 7 (10:19):
The drop site reporting of a sprawling intelligence operation.

Speaker 6 (10:25):
So do I think the sex trafficking is real?

Speaker 7 (10:27):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (10:27):
Do I think they're going to.

Speaker 7 (10:30):
Ever release anything that definitively legally puts anybody in jeopardy
for it?

Speaker 6 (10:36):
Probably not. I hope they do, but probably not.

Speaker 7 (10:38):
But what we are going to be able to see
are the contours of this sprawling and obvious intelligence operation.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
And that's proven through Ryan's reporting with mos.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
Yeah, And it's interesting, it's like, what would this, what
kind of a smoking gun would would actually be needed,
because it then depends on what you're trying to prove.
If all you're trying to prove is that he had
lots of actions with American intelligence and Israeli intelligence and
also elites in Russia and Europe, it's proven done. Gotcha,

(11:08):
You're covered. If you want to know specifically what he
was doing. Uh yeah, you know, we can lay out
some of it. You know, so far we can tell
you what he was doing in Syria and with with
Mongolia with code of War. Soon we're going to have
some Angola stuff, we'll have some Nigeria stuff. Well, we
can tell you exactly what's going on with the you know,
the different gems and the gold mining. Like there's like

(11:29):
enormous amounts of details you can get into. So like
but then you're like, Okay, well now I know. Now
I have a ton of details about this global network
that is a kind of super national government that that operates.
And that's what makes it so confusing, I think even
to us as we're like originally going into it, because

(11:49):
you're looking for like is he working for Masad? Is
he's working for the CIA. It's like it misunderstands what
the role of like Masad and CIA are in this world.
Like there's a super superanational network of elites that in
the twenty tens were congregating Davos Man was how you
really understood them, and they were not None of them

(12:11):
were working for Masade or the CIA. Cia and the
Massade were working for them. Is a better way of
putting it. Were they getting a W nine or like
W two, Like how are they going to pay?

Speaker 6 (12:25):
You find a W nine that Epstein filled out for
the CIA.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
It's like, but we even have the fire transfer, it's
Epstein sending the money to the Israeli spy. So it's like,
which is actually a nice metaphor for like, how we
actually do properly understand this? I think, which is there?
They work for this network of people, and how they
work for them depends on who's who's kind of has
more power within the click at that moment. And how

(12:51):
do you know that? You have to be on the inn.
You have to be on the inside. It's just the
same way with any other network.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
And that's why ignoring that piece of the story, you know,
makes so Look, I think Americans want to know if
Trump knew about this massive pedophile ring. I think that's
probably the most suggestive thing in these emails. Epstein certainly,
you know, insinuates multiple times. It explicitly states I have
dirt on Trump that could bring him down, right, And
he's always teasing this to this New York Times reporter.

(13:19):
He's talking to Bannon about it. He's talking to abandoned
about it right up until the point that he ends
up in prison and then dead, which is interesting in
and of itself.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Right. So, but is it a question of just the
like horror.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
And morality, which I mean, I don't want to minimize that, right,
that's very important and horrifying. I think many people are
horrified by it. Or is it a question of is
the president of the United States compromised in some you know,
significant way by Israel and also here by Russia.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Right, Because this is.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
The point you always make Ryan like, even if Epstein
is bluffing, clearly people thought that he did have all
the videos, that he did have all the goods, that
he did have, all the dirt, and you would have
certainly known that he was directly connected to the Israelis.
I mean, Bestie's with this former Israeli Prime minister doing
business deals with him, obviously directly connected to Masad Gallaine,

(14:11):
Maxwell's dad was directly connected to Masad. That's just undeniable stuff.
And then you also have this, you know, Russian connection.
You have to assume that whatever it is that you
don't want the public to know, Epstein knew and conveyed
to these various parties. So now we're talking about issues
of foreign policy. We're talking about how is this now

(14:32):
impacting our country here in the present with the decisions
you're making Visa v Russia, Viza VI, Israel, and god
knows what other countries you're concerned about here. And one
thing you can say, probably yeah, right, right, what is
this doing to our relationship with Mongolia? But people need
to know? Okay, but you know, one of the to me,

(14:52):
you have to put together the emails, which are suggestive, right,
no smoking gut, but very suggestive, and also suggests of
a longer term relationship or at least connectivity with Epstein
than Trump claims.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
The fact that Trump is acting.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Guilty as hell, right, I mean, you know what, It's
almost like he has shame on this particular which I've.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Never seen before.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
I found his shame.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yes, I'm like, okay, well, what is it that's so
bad that it apparently is worse than shooting someone on
Fifth Avenue since he thinks that would be fine for
him to do, but this he thinks would be would
be worse. And we know not only from his public
actions how sort of panicked he is, but also this
special treatment of Glene Maxwell is also a very important

(15:39):
piece of trying to understand the psychology of Trump, Like,
this woman should never be in this club fed person
number one. Number two, she's getting the frickin' puppies and
the special meals and the exercise and getting to meet
with people after hours, et cetera. Number Three, she's putting
in her commutation application. Every time Trump's asked about it,
he won't say whether he'll accept or reject it, et cetera.
So very clearly he wants to keep her happy so

(16:03):
that she does not divulge whatever it is that he
is afraid of her divulging. So to me, when you
put those pieces together, it's like, what is going on
here that is causing him to act in this bizarre
way the normal way that.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
He conducts himself.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
Yeah, the only other thing I'd lay on top of
that is absolutely correct, and especially about people assuming that
Epstein had the goods, like what we now know from
all of the reporting we've done recently, the business that
he and Ahu Barack were getting into on behalf of
Israeli companies and the Israeli government itself was cyber surveillance,
was the bleeding edge of the most sophisticated spying technology

(16:45):
in the world, and so they so people who knew
him knew that he has direct access to these no
click you know, penetrations of your phone or cameras god
knows where, like the kinds that like sci Fi st
off that where where there are several years ahead where
we now understand what they're capable of. They had that,

(17:07):
you know, they knew about it years ago. So even
if he didn't have you in his mansion or on
his plane, you had to wonder what else, what do
they have?

Speaker 3 (17:15):
What else is he now?

Speaker 5 (17:16):
Because when you have state power combined with global surveillance networks,
you haven't access to an enormous amount of information.

Speaker 7 (17:28):
The only other thing I'll add about Gilan Maxwell is,
I mean, there could be a lot of stuff going
on there. She in those transcribed interviews that were released,
was I think pretty obviously deferential to Trump, and Trump
has been deferential in turn to Gilan Maxwell. And it

(17:49):
obviously seems like there's some information that Maxwell may have
that Trump is sort of trying to control her and anything.

Speaker 6 (17:59):
That she might be able to spill.

Speaker 7 (18:02):
I don't know if it's like about Trump or if
it's about the intelligence community, Like I don't know what
they're more worried about, to be honest, But it's like
at this point everyone knows Trump. He's like the Fifth
Avenue guy, right, Like Fifth Avenue shoots someone on Fifth Avenue,
like he is. Crystal's point about him acting guilty as hell,
like just politically, just politically, Like it's insane to fight

(18:26):
the document releases. It's completely insane. It makes you, it
makes you, it makes you.

Speaker 6 (18:34):
Yeah, nd.

Speaker 5 (18:36):
He has good political sense. He knows how insane it looks.
So therefore he thinks that not doing it is even worse,
which is really wild to think.

Speaker 7 (18:44):
About, which is very Yes, but it's insane because there's
already so much like the Birthday book, like there's so
much out on Trump's relationship with Epstein.

Speaker 6 (18:54):
I mean, it's just.

Speaker 8 (18:57):
If we psycho analyze this, it's gonna be three hours.
So I am gonna move us along to your reporting Emily.

Speaker 6 (19:04):
Into the Groper census.

Speaker 8 (19:06):
Yes, well there has been a census conducted by Emily. Now,
this all started, of course, when Young Republican group chat
texts were leagud. There was I love Hitler comments and
other unsavory opinions, but Emily decided to do some some
gumshoe reporting, some knocking on doors, making phone calls to
find out just how many of these Republicans are groped

(19:28):
up basement cat boys.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
Emily, what did you find?

Speaker 5 (19:31):
What are the numbers.

Speaker 6 (19:32):
Raped up basic cat boys?

Speaker 7 (19:34):
Well, okay, so there was a number pinging around conservative
movement circles in DC last week from Roderer, who wrote
that he was told by an older insider that thirty
to forty percent of gen Z staffers in conservative world
and here in DC were gropers, and in that it
was sort of conflated with groper slash fans of Fuentas.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
Those are kind of different things.

Speaker 7 (19:56):
Like it's I'll get into that in just a second.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
I actually agree with that too.

Speaker 7 (20:00):
Yeah, yeah, Like it's because if you just see someone
who's like laughing at Nick quintezs as opposed to with
Nick Fuenta's, there's a distinction, and that distinction might be
genuine anti Semitism. So it's hard for I think, particularly
anyone older than like the age of forty, but maybe
even like the age of thirty. So like go through
these layers of irony and find the people who just

(20:22):
fun to sell them say, are hiding their power level whatever.
So the question is, has went to successfully infiltrated professional
DC and Republican circles as he has said he has
done and as he has planned to do. I think
the answer to that question is probably in small measure, yes,
but I do not think it's anywhere near thirty to

(20:42):
forty percent. My backgrounds in the conservative youth movement, do
tons of work with students, have met with like hundreds
of people for coffee in the last like ten years,
and all that is to say, I wanted to just
get a sense from other people, other younger people on
the right, what they thought the real number was. So
I had like seven sources that I talked to kind
of across the board, you everywhere from the White House,

(21:05):
Capitol Hill, conservative youth groups, all of that, and every
single person I talked to was like that numbers is crazy.
Pretty much everybody agrees that there is some small number.
One person I talked to the administration was like, it's
not double digits, which I know is cold comfort to
people are like, oh, you're saying the nine percent of

(21:26):
young Republican staffers are gropers.

Speaker 6 (21:29):
I doubt that it's like even that high.

Speaker 7 (21:31):
I have no idea what the number is, but I
don't think it's even that high either way. I just
think it's important to distinguish between, you know, who's legitimately
like Gropper, anti Semite, and who is sick and tired
of our foreign policy towards Israel and what we saw
happen in I think a couple of different recent cases

(21:53):
is those young Republicans who were saying legitimately like racist
and awful stuff then being conflated with the people at
the Heritage Foundation, like the young staffers at the Heritage
Foundation who are getting berated by neo cons for saying,
we don't like your Israel policy, and like Project Esther
is censoring people. So I do think that it's it's

(22:14):
worth like pausing to with cooler heads, allowing that to prevail,
allowing cooler heads to prevail and be like, we have
to distinguish when we're you know, actually trying to have
a useful political movement between who's an actual bigot because
there are some and it's a problem that it's going
to get worse the more disenfranchised a lot of young

(22:36):
men feel, and people who are just not on board
with the project Esther and your conservative like really broad
definition of what constitutes anti Semitism. So yes, I had
seven sources, nobody over millennial age, so millennials and younger,
and yeah, I mean it's not useful if they're anyways

(22:58):
so true.

Speaker 6 (22:59):
That's that's that's what I wrote.

Speaker 7 (23:00):
This is the groper's sensus, and that's we don't we
don't have the firm number, but I think it's safe
to say not double digits.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
I think part of what is hard to kind of
wrap your arms around is like, what do we mean
by that term graper? You know, as you were indicating,
do we mean like the strictest definition would be someone
who is like a Nick Fuentes super fan, who would
self identify unironically as a groper and who buys into

(23:32):
the entirety of the worldview. Okay, that would be like
the narrowest definition. And there's a much broader definition, which
would be that you know, they are sort of you know,
like racialist and may even come down on a different
question of whether they hate the Jews or the Muslims more,

(23:52):
but have this fundamental like Steven Miller, fundamentally racialist worldview,
and I think that, I mean, we see that, that is,
we see publicly from this administration that the people who
are running the social media accounts, the people who are
like you know, Stephen Miller and his acolytes who are
designing the policy, they share that racialist worldview. And so

(24:18):
so you know, to me, it's just a question of like, well,
what exactly do we mean by that, and does it
make it any better? Like I don't think Steven You
can't call Steven Miller a groper because he comes down,
like I said, on a different question places in the
question of whether the Jews or the Muslims are worse,
but he does share this bedrock racialist ideology which he's

(24:42):
using to effectuate policy as one of the most powerful
administrative administration staff members. So to me, it's somewhat of
a distinction without a difference. Whether he's technically like a
Nick Fuenta's super fan, he wouldn't be again because he
is Jewish and is a Zionist and very committed to
the state of Israel. But on a lot of levels

(25:02):
they fundamentally agree.

Speaker 6 (25:05):
I think the distinction.

Speaker 7 (25:07):
In that case would be Fuentas indicates on his show
he is like controlling sleeper cells of to the narrow
definition you laid out crystal people who are self identified
grouper jersey wearers who would like activate at a moment's notice,
like the sleeper cell would be activated.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
He talks about like sending them to Iowa, New Hampshire
to harass jd Vance if jad Vance is to run
for president.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
I mean they probably will.

Speaker 9 (25:34):
You know.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
It's ongoing war actually with Charlie Kirk and TPUSA, which
is why people when Charlie Kirk was murdered were first
raising eyebrows at the groupers. And we do see a
lot of like gripped up young people showing up at
the TPUSA events. True, and you know, even at events
with like Eric Trump I saw, you know. And but

(25:55):
to your point, it can be difficult to separate. Okay,
do you have a legitimate concern about our foreign policy
cvs of the Israel or is this fueled by you
think it's a zion Is occupied government and the Jews
control everything, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 7 (26:08):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that it's to like throw
around the thirty forty percent number is dangerous because then
you're going to end up pushing people who are not
anti semitic but are being told they're anti semitic further
to the fringes because there's like there's nothing I can
do that will make you think I'm well intentioned, and
they still have agency and it's still their fault if
that happens. But uh, yes, the yeah, I think the

(26:32):
people who were giving Fuentas too little credit before for
having power are now giving him too much credit. And
so yeah, it's it's a little I don't know, it's tricky,
but the rights got to get Uh, it's got lots.

Speaker 6 (26:46):
Of problems, lots of problems.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
And I will say they they seem to be congregating
in the social media departments of all of these federal
agencies because like this is not you know, George H. W.
Bush content that they're putting out on on like the
like on main Like they're putting out like far right

(27:09):
like groper style memes like from the of like the
Department of the Department of that like the and so
I assume those are kids.

Speaker 8 (27:21):
That somebody remember because it's a Santa's video when he
was running that had like the bull like like this
is like been happening for like a year or two.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Now, these memes, I mean, it makes sense that they
would be emily in the like perhaps a disproportionate concentration
of those departments, because if you're that online, that you're
a Nick Fuentas like super fan, then you're probably going
to have some skill in like the meme and social
media department. Right, possible a major and a major push

(27:51):
in this ministry. We were talking about this earlier in
the week to the frustration of some you know, ideological allies,
is to basically, you know, do the based ritual advice
signaling through their social media and have that substitute for
any substantive policy that actually improves people's lives.

Speaker 7 (28:09):
The last thing I'll say is almost all of my sources,
with a couple of exceptions, were populists. So that's another
question that I've gotten in the last couple of days.
This is not like establishment McConnell people. So that's just
just adding that.

Speaker 6 (28:24):
And the other thing is.

Speaker 7 (28:25):
Before recently, really the only people on the right who
knew what a gripper was were people who were working
in the youth movement. Because Fontes was so intentional and
strategic about infiltrating some of these youth events, and so
those organizations have for years been like screening grippers, like
going through like deep dives social media, trying to figure

(28:46):
out if people have burners, trying to ask certain questions
that might suss out grippers, and that's probably getting harder
to do because they're getting more I think probably strategic
to try to avoid that process.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Well, last thing I'll say is who is this guy
de Grassio or something like that who had his messages
leaked in Grassia? Yeah, who had his messages leak where
he was talking about like I've got a Nazi streak,
you know, and he just got elevated to a new,
you know, relatively high level position. So again, like is

(29:21):
he a goroyperer? Probably not, Like he's an older guy,
he's probably maybe not like a you know, Fuentes meme.
I don't, I don't know, maybe he is, but.

Speaker 6 (29:32):
He's from my age and he's like thirty ish.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
But you know, this stuff comes out and reveals that
he's at least you know, open to he I mean,
he has a racialist worldview, open to overt Nazism. And
this is not disqualifying in this administration. So I don't
know why anyone would think that, you know, like that
somehow an association with Nick Fuentes would in any way
being be disqualifying, or that this administration would have any

(29:57):
interest in tamping down on overt the sentiment, when again,
some of the most powerful players within the administration share
an overtly racist worldview, even if some of the like
ethnic potent like specific ethnic dividing lines are slightly different.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 8 (30:14):
I agree with like Ryan's take on like the DHS
memes and stuff like that, But like I did get
a sense from the story when like the group chat
officially like leaked that people were saying, oh, like this
doesn't just mean the staffers, but that a sizable just
part of like magabas or voter population like our our our,
our Nazis and Hitler lovers.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
Was kind of like a sense from the story.

Speaker 8 (30:38):
But I feel like if you reverse that and looked
at like democratic operatives, like I don't believe that like
all democrats are like Olivia Juliana or Harry Sisson, like, like,
I don't think that that's also representative of like the
democratic base or what have you, and something.

Speaker 7 (30:51):
That is I don't think Hasan's representative of the average
like young Democrat, no.

Speaker 8 (30:57):
Little tall maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, But like there's also
this like entertainment question, because I think Hassan.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Is fairly representative, but a lot of young dem in
a lot of ways. I mean, just look at how
many under thirties voted for Zoron in New York City,
And like, if you're just talking about just like ideological alignment,
Hassan's politics and his politics would be you know, not identical,
but the most closely aligned of any mainstream political figure.

(31:24):
So I actually think it would be fair to say
that young Democrats under thirty, you know, probably they may
not all be Hassan Piker fans, specifically, they are more
from that wing of you know, reflective of that wing
of the party.

Speaker 7 (31:39):
Yeah, I think that's true. And I would have said
the same thing with Charlie Kirk with the right.

Speaker 5 (31:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (31:42):
And people also separate take what they want from content.
And I was thinking about this because I heard I
saw another conservative YouTube influencer Asmen Gold, talk about Fuentes
recently and he said, well, you know, I don't really
agree with like the jew hating stuff, but I agree
with his takes on Israel, and I think that is
like presentative of a lot of the conservatives that probably

(32:02):
do watch frient is is they kind of like take
what they want. They're like, oh, well, I'm not really
sure I agree with like this like racism against Jews,
but I do agree that Israel controls America or what
have you. And I do think that is like representative
of like a large part of the audience. Is that,
like in the same with Candace Owens. I'm pretty sure
a large portion of people who watch candis Oen are like,
she's crazy, but I love watching That's true, right, And

(32:25):
there is something to that right that people are coming
to be entertained and they take what they want from it,
like they don't become the person they're watching entirely, and
they pick and choose what parts of it because ultimately
a lot of it is entertainment.

Speaker 7 (32:38):
Well, last thing I'll say on this actually is I
think that's why it's incumbent on the right to understand
better why people are watching Candace and Flinta. Some of
it is because they're getting sucked into bad racial politics
like bigotry.

Speaker 6 (32:50):
On the other hand, some of it is that where else.

Speaker 7 (32:52):
Do you go to get a conservative criticism of this
Trump administration, Like that's part of it. And so if
they want to start like actually preventing people from getting
sucked on these rabbit holes, they need to understand that
young people are not happy with this administration. Young conservatives
are not happy with this administration, and they're looking for
people to actually have real conversations about what's going on

(33:16):
in DC and in the world. And that pushes them
towards the Fuenticses and Candacees and even towards like Pucker
for at least some modicum of criticism and skepticism about
conservative elites.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
So yeah, it's just that it doesn't I mean, if
you're just putting anti semitism off the table, but you're
not putting other forms of racism and bigotry off the table, mode, Yeah,
that's a pretty hollow victory to me, you know, in
my opinion. And it's like, oh, Stephen Miller won out
congratulate fucking lations, you know, or the people that actively
support and fund and armagenocide. Oh their ideology. One, wow,

(33:55):
that's fantastic, you know. I Mean, that's and that's why
I'm coming back to, like, you know, the Steve Miller
in the views that are coming out of this administration
of the policies. I mean, they're their refugee policy is
only why it's allowed. You know, this stuff is just overt.
So I mean, I just I don't see outside of
I really don't see any significant institutions within the right

(34:18):
that are ascendant right now who are like, actually, all
bigotry should be off the table, not just like hey
guys like Randy Fine, like, hey guys, let's hate the Muslims,
not the Jews, or Laura Omer, Hey, guys, you know,
it's the Islamization of America that's the real problem. And
it's an outrage that we have any Muslims in in
Congress and how but how dare you be anti Semitic

(34:40):
like that view where you're just like, well, my ethnic
group or did naice to SUSA right where he's like, well,
my particular ethnic group should be off the table?

Speaker 3 (34:49):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
But how dare you come for the Indians? Now it's like, yeah,
but you were good with all of this up until
that point when the hatred turned on you. So I mean, anyway,
it's you know, to me, there's the ideological strain on
the right that is ascendant right now is fundamentally racialist,
and so I don't really particularly have a dog in

(35:10):
the fight of I think it's all imbhorrant right, whether
you put the Muslims on top, or the Jews on top,
or who you hate more, I think it's all a
disgusting way to behave fundamentally, and.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
Emily is the right going to need some more distance
from like twenty twenty. It feels like you watch a
right wing organization, if anybody tries to stand up to
any form of bigotry in any circumstance.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Then you're a cock.

Speaker 5 (35:36):
They get called woke.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, you're a lib. You're a cock, You're woke.

Speaker 7 (35:41):
I think that's the problem with like the ingrassiest stuff,
which is people assume. And that's why I think this
distinction is important. People assume that anyone who gets caught
up in like a canceled culture scandal, it's more important
the cost benefit analysis is on owning the libs and
not like canceling somebody who's hashag based and so, yeah,
I think maybe maybe that's a good point. Ryan, Yeah,

(36:03):
I think that's you know, all of the conservative institutions.
I think we'll say and have been like hand ringing
over the last couple of weeks, especially with the heritage stuff,
to like say there's nothing, nothing excuses any of this,
you know, And that's fueling Flent does. He makes him

(36:24):
seem like really important and really ascendant and all of that.

Speaker 6 (36:27):
So it's confusing.

Speaker 8 (36:30):
You need someone that's woke and hates Israel, like you need,
you need to wokely hate Israel on the right for
there to be a help, and.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Then you're just the leftist. Then someone over, guys. Lieutenant
Governor Peggy flanagain, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Guys.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
We talked about this earlier, but she is running. She's
lieutenant governor of Minnesota and she is also running for
the Senate in the state of Minnesota in the Democratic primary.
Believe her main challenger is Angie Craig, who's a current
member of Congress. Lieutenant Governor, welcome, great to have you.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to
be here.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, of course, it's our pleasure. Just why don't you
just introduce yourself a little bit for the audience, your background,
how you ended up in politics, and what some of
the core issues are that motivate you.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Sure, absolutely so.

Speaker 10 (37:20):
As you said, I'm the Lieutenant Governor of the great
State of Minnesota. I've been in this role for the
last seven years. But at my core, I am an organizer.
I was raised on the Wellstone for SETA campaign in
two thousand and two. I've been a school board member,
the executive director of Children's Defense Fund Minnesota, and also

(37:41):
served in the House of Representatives here in Minnesota. And
I'm a qude who felt like the bottom could fall
out at any moment. And I know that there's too
many people who feel that way right now. And that's
why I decided to run for a United States Senate
because I think we need more people who understand what
it feels like to try to stretch twenty bucks through

(38:03):
the through the end of the month.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
And so I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 10 (38:07):
I'm a mom of a twelve year old, a middle schooler,
and I live in the community that raised me, of
Saint Louis Park, and I'm the highest ranking Native American
woman in executive office in the country. I'm a member
of the Wider Band of Ojibway, which is the largest
tribe here in Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
And I know you've done a lot of work, you know,
connecting indigenous communities as well.

Speaker 5 (38:29):
Yes, yeah, our My understanding is that even though Angie
Cragg does not have the official endorsement of say Chuck Schumer,
at this point, she has all the It's understood to
those of us who are here in Washington, DC that
Angie Cragg is the like Democratic leadership candidate one way
they send those signals without sending them all the way

(38:51):
as they have Nancy Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries endorse You're like,
wait a minute, why are the House leaders in endorsing
the Senate candidate but not the Senate leader. But yeah,
and some unions and other other signals that she's the candidate.
So did you get any pressure from the National Party

(39:11):
not to run? They say, look this, the lane is
cleared for Angie Craig. It's you know, this is this
is her nomination. What are you doing? And how is
that affecting your the campaign?

Speaker 3 (39:23):
So I certainly did get any.

Speaker 10 (39:26):
Any explicit pressure to to not run, to be clear.
But what I would say is, you know, Ryan, I
think you're right that I am not a Beltwegh darling.
And if this race were held in Washington, d C.
I think my opponent would win. Lucky for me, it's
being held in Minnesota, and so that's why I think

(39:49):
that we're going to ruin this this race. You know,
to tell you, I'm not the establishment candidate, and I
think right now, especially going into twenty twenty six, that's
a good thing. There's a particular formula I think that people,
maybe the establishment in Washington like to see.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
I'm not part of that formula.

Speaker 10 (40:10):
But I think that that is what's speaking to folks
in this moment as we're traveling all across the state
of Minnesota. People are ready for bold leadership. They don't
want folks who are going to nibble around the edges anymore.
And I think that's what we saw all across the
country in the most recent elections.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
And that's why I'm in this.

Speaker 10 (40:29):
So you know, if there's folks who are all in
for my opponent, that's just fine. We're going to spend
this time working on the ground, organizing with real folks and.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
Being really clear.

Speaker 10 (40:42):
I think that this race is about what is facing
the Democratic Party overall, because it is a corporate Democrat
versus someone with progressive values who's been delivering for working
families for a long time, and I think that that's
what people are interested in this moment.

Speaker 7 (41:02):
Do you think that message, potentially in a general election
is powerful with people who maybe voted for Donald Trump
or voted for Republican candidates in the past. Do you
think your background as a left wing populist is actually
something that helps you. I don't know if you have
conversations with people who've voted for Trump or maybe other
Republicans who are disillusioned disenchanted now where your sort of

(41:24):
flavor of Bernie style populism is appealing.

Speaker 10 (41:29):
I certainly think it is, and we're actually seeing it
as we're going across the state. So we've been holding
what we call kitchen table conversations, and so it's a
little less scripted town hall and a little bit more
community meeting. So of course we have folks who are
coming who are Democrats. We've got a lot of independence
or folks who are like, I don't agree with any
political party, but I'm really freaked out by what I

(41:50):
see happening here.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
And then we have Republicans.

Speaker 10 (41:52):
We were in the community of Canby, Minnesota, which is
in southwestern Minnesota, a small town, and we had these
four guys show up who sort of were all like
had their arms crossed over their chest in the back
of the room, and you know, and I was like,
I wonder what these guys are about. And one of
them raised his hand and he said, you know, we

(42:13):
all voted for Trump in sixteen in twenty and we
didn't vote for quote unquote that lady in twenty twenty four.
They said, but we're here because you're a tough cookie.
And then they went on to say that they were
concerned about Snap being pulled out of the egg bill

(42:33):
and what that means for the future of farmers, like
we've already always been able to count on the fact
that this was going to get done. And he said,
you know, the the you know, little secret that people
won't tell you is how many farmers themselves rely on
Snap to keep food on the table. And so I
think that those are the things that are resonating with people.
And no matter where I go, it can be in

(42:55):
you know, the urban core, the suburbs, rural communities. Health
Care here is the thing that I hear about over
and over and over again. So that is like we
don't have to agree on everything, but I think what
we can agree on is that it's like literally all
of us versus extremist billionaires and the folks at the
very very top who are doing incredibly well under the

(43:17):
Trump administration. And I think that's what can galvanize us.
Folks know that the game is rigged and we just
have to talk about it. What did you think of
the shutdown deal that was, you know, agreed to by
eight Democrats in the Senate, And do you believe that
Chuck Shumer should continue to be the Democratic leader? So
I'll tell you it would have not even crossed my

(43:39):
mind to like even entertain voting for that deal. Talk about,
you know, clutching defeat from you know, the the mouth
of victory.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
I just I feel like, you know, of course, I
want to be very clear.

Speaker 10 (43:56):
The shutdown and our federal employees, TSA workers, folks who
depend on snap that was incredibly hard. And I know
that we had people who were coming along with us.
I think case in point elections literally all across the
country that said keep fighting for us.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
And so I just don't.

Speaker 10 (44:19):
I just don't understand it. So the answer is like
I want to voted for it. I'm incredibly disappointed in
the eight Senate Democrats and now four members of the
House who went along. I think we only have a
handful of tools in our toolbox right now as Democrats.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
This was one of them.

Speaker 10 (44:35):
And I'm sick and tired of Democrats fighting from a
defensive crouch. And I think we lost some ground with people,
and now I, along with others, have to, you know,
work to rebuild that trust and say I'm going to
fight for you. That is not the kind of Democrat
that I am. I think the job of a caucus
leader is to keep folks together, and we certainly did

(44:59):
not see that. It's I think it's going to take
a lot for for folks to feel like they can
trust his party again.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
And that's you know, that's what's at stake.

Speaker 10 (45:13):
And you said I I, Uh, I think I feel
the same way about Chuck Schumer that he feels about me.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Unc is what I would say.

Speaker 10 (45:22):
And and so you know, I I as it's been reported,
I don't think I'm his his candidate in this race.

Speaker 6 (45:30):
That's okay.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
We're just going to keep organizing and and and we're
going to win.

Speaker 5 (45:34):
A number of Democrats have said that he should step
down as leader. Uh, do you think he should step
down as leader? Would you support him next time? Let's
say you win and he runs for Coggs leader again.
There's also been some speculation that he won't even run
for re election. Do you think he should decline to
run for reelection?

Speaker 10 (45:54):
I mean, I think any leader should take time to,
you know, reflect on where they are needed and necessary.
I would say there's a lot of time right between
now and the election.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
I'm really going to.

Speaker 5 (46:09):
Focus on what about right now? On Brokannas on the
fair number of other Democrats have said enough, like it's
this is an urgent moment, you just you should step
down now? Do you think you should step down now?

Speaker 10 (46:22):
That's not my decision to make, But I think he
should seriously reflect on the direction of the party, the
need to rebuild trust here. And here's what I think
is so hard about this moment is that there are
people outside of the Beltway who know that things are
on fire right and so I think that is that

(46:42):
disconnect between how people are living right now and what's
happening in Washington, DC that I think is what deserves
a lot of reflection. Because when I'm in communities and
I'm talking to a librarian who says, my deductibles fifteen
thousand dollars a year and that I just went to
the doctor for a five minute medcheck and it cost

(47:04):
me six hundred bucks.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
And I don't know.

Speaker 10 (47:06):
Whether or not we're going to be able to afford
healthcare next year at all. And we're like nibbling around
the edges and somehow, you know, saying like, well, we
sure brought them the fight by raising, you know, this
idea that healthcare is expensive and that somehow that's enough.
It's it's blowney And I think it just speaks to
how disconnected people feel right now from what's what's what's

(47:31):
happening in in in Washington. So you know, again, I
think Chuck Schumer just isn't that into me. And that's okay, uh,
And you know, I'm going to keep doing the work
that I need to do here in Minnesota and focus
on this race and making sure that people here have

(47:51):
the fighter that they need and someone who's willing to
take on corporate interests and not capitulate to make sure
that you know, the money keeps coming in to the party.

Speaker 5 (48:03):
And Lieutenant governor. Real quickly, if I could play a
quick clip for you a a Minnesota DFL member who
was at a party auction slash fundraiser earlier this month.
You may have even been at this one. I don't know.
Angie Craig was there and she's kind of leading an
auction and she gets pressed by a Democrat who's that
in the in the audience about her position on Gaza,

(48:27):
and I want to play her very strange and hard
to understand response. But and then get your response to this.
Let me play this video here.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Bye, log.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Went in the democracy in this set.

Speaker 5 (48:55):
So it goes on like that, she just kind of
continues the auction. Uh, but she says, you know, we
believe in democracy in this country. We are not a
cult in response to the person pressing her on whether
or not you know, I was going to stand up
against the genocide and Gaza. So any response to that

(49:16):
clip itself, but also where are you? Where do you
stand when it comes to you know, us support for
the Israeli military.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Sure?

Speaker 10 (49:27):
So I was there, Okay, I was, Yeah, I was
at that dinner.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
And you know these are there were a handful of
young people who were there who.

Speaker 10 (49:41):
You know, spent their own money, uh to to be
at this dinner, and I think we're looking for an
opportunity to engage. And it was a pack room. Folks
are fired up, and you know all of us gave
a little speech and and that that happened.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
What I decided to do?

Speaker 5 (50:02):
What she mean cult like.

Speaker 10 (50:03):
I mean, I think it was just sort of a
wild moment with as you could hear a lot of yelling.
It was an action like we all, all the electeds
or candidates had an auction off an item and uh, and.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
That's that's Uh, that's what happened.

Speaker 10 (50:22):
So I decided, uh, you know, before I left to
pull these young people aside and I talked to them
because you know, they they were there to to express
their viewpoints. And I think that's important and I think
when young people are showing up on our party, uh,
it's important to make sure that that they feel hard. Now,

(50:43):
I want to be really clear, I am not taking
money from APAC. I also don't believe that they would
give it to me, so you know, that's that's also
part of this. But you know, what what has happened is,
you know I was asked about the Sanders resist this
summer that both both of my senator Senator Tina Smith

(51:06):
and Senator Amy Klobuchar.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Voted in favor of to.

Speaker 10 (51:10):
Stop offensive weapons from getting to Netniahu's government. And it was,
you know, for me, because we saw the starvation of
children in Gaza, and I think there are again a
handful of tools and our toolbox that we can use

(51:32):
when we see something happening that's that's not right. And
to be really clear, you know, the same reason why
I would have supported that resolution when I see starving
children is the same reason why I support breakfast and
lunch being offered to kids universal bials at school, right,
Like that is a consistent through line.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
And you know, of course.

Speaker 10 (51:55):
What happened on October seventh is absolutely horrific, and the
trauma and the violence was unacceptable. And and what we
see the response from Netanyahu's government of preventing aid, of
leveling entire neighborhoods and communities is not right. And so

(52:20):
I am now you know, a target uh for a
pack because I spoke up, and you know I'm going
to continue uh to you know, I get reserve the
right to critique my own government and Donald Trump, and
I certainly reserve the right to critique Benjamin Yahoo and
and his government as well.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
So I know that this is an issue.

Speaker 10 (52:44):
Uh A pack is supporting UH my opponent to the
tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, and so, uh,
we're going to be competitive when it comes to fundraising.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
But it's also I also it's not not how I'm
into said in funding my team.

Speaker 5 (53:02):
What did you tell the uh the protesters, the students
or were they students? Were they what did you tell them?
And what they tell you?

Speaker 10 (53:10):
They were they were students, and you know, they just said,
we just want an opportunity to have a conversation. And
I think, you know, she was sort of scuttled at
the back door of the kitchen. I think people deserve
that and listen, Like, you can decide to take money

(53:30):
from whoever you want you to to fund your campaign.
To me, integrity matters and you know, and so like.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
I shared that with them.

Speaker 10 (53:40):
They asked how you know if I was taking a
PAC money and I said no, and mostly I just listened.
And I think that that is I think that that's
what people are interested in right now. And so if
you're if you're not going to even engage, like, what
does that say right about about our democracy. I just

(54:02):
we don't have enough young people in this party. We
don't have enough young people who are banging on the
door to say, like, I want to be part of
this work.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
I want to be part of this movement.

Speaker 10 (54:13):
I think we have a responsibility to do everything we
can to say you're welcome here. And again, we don't
have to agree on everything, but you get to have
you know, your your voice heard in this process. And
I worry about what that means. If we keep shutting
young people down over and over again, maybe they're not
going to turn out for the other guys.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
They're just gonna not going to turn out at all.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
What do you see, Lieutenant Governor, as the primary differences
between you and Congresswoman Anngie Craig. What are some of
the key policy differences that you see?

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Sure, so I.

Speaker 10 (54:48):
Would say that, you know, the the biggest thing is
is really how we are approaching, you know, our elections.
I've decided not to take corporate pack money. That's incredibly
important to me, I think, especially right now when people
know that the game is rigged. You know, I certainly
knew that corporations had a lot of power in Washington.

(55:10):
It wasn't until I started running for the US Senate
that I was like.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Whoo, they sure do.

Speaker 10 (55:15):
And so, you know, this has been a point where
for me that's incredibly important is to say that I
want to be accountable to the people of Minnesota and
to our small dollar donors all across the country, because
I think it's pretty disingenuous to say I'm going to
hold big pharma accountable while at the same time taking

(55:38):
a big check from a pharmaceutical company. People are smarter
than that, and I think that that is really the
core of what this is about. Are you going to
show for the corporate interests or are you going to
work for working people? You know, I also think things
like raising the minimum wage, paid family and medical leave,
making sure you know, as we're talking about healthcare across

(56:00):
a state, it is time to just say what is
needed and necessary, which is to get rid of prior
authorization so some dude behind a desk doesn't get to
decide whether or not you get the life saving healthcare
that you deserve, or worse yet, AI or a robot
doesn't get to make that decision, and that we need
medicare for all. And you know, I think that that

(56:21):
has been the clearest difference between the two of us,
that I am willing to take on these big corporations
and to fight for what folks need, and I am
not being financed by the very people who are responsible
for the reason that the economy looks like how it
looks now for you know, for for middle class folks

(56:41):
and for folks who.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Are on the margins. Yeah, no, God, go ahead, Ryan,
go ahead, Ryan.

Speaker 5 (56:46):
Craig herself correct me if I'm wrongs. I covered her
twenty eighteen race. She was actually recruited by the d
TRIBC in that race against some other you know, uh
were progressive candis there? So my recollection?

Speaker 4 (56:58):
She and sorry, and we're gonna have to rapper.

Speaker 8 (57:01):
She's got a hard out parent teacher conference in a
sex So we'll do this last question and then we'll rapper.

Speaker 5 (57:05):
She's a medical device executive, Is that right? Like she
worked for a medical device company something like normally Democrats
are finding like female fighter fighter pilots or something. So
how does that how does her background in corporate America
like play into your campaign here?

Speaker 10 (57:21):
I mean, you know, I think I don't know how
hard we'll lean into like her expertise. I think we're
both highly qualified right women who are running for office.
I think it is about just who do you want
your candidates beholden to? Right corporate interests or real people?
And I think that's, you know, really what this this
campaign's all about.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Just very quickly because you raised AI.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
I know there have been a few high profile data
center fights in Minnesota. You know, what is your view
of the mass data center build out? Its impact on
electricity prices in the environment.

Speaker 10 (57:53):
I mean, I think we have to have additional protections
in there for consumers. I think there's a difference between
an AI center that has a closed water system versus
one that does not. You know, when we see folks
who are coming in to building communities, I think a
lot of times folks are getting a really raw deal.
So I think we have to take a really good
look at what does that actually mean. They're bringing jobs

(58:14):
and that's needed and necessary, especially for the building construction,
but how do we make sure that those benefits continue?
And you know, that's that's deeply concerning to me, and
it's something that we here all across the country. I think,
you know, they're needed and necessary. However, we have to
have additional protections in place for consumers and for folks
who live around them to make sure that they're just

(58:35):
not getting a raw deal.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Lieutenant Governor, thank you so much for your time. We
really appreciate it's great to get to meet you.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Thanks so much for having me appreciate you. Yeah, a pleasure.

Speaker 8 (58:47):
All right, on that note, but you guys think, yeah, yeah, okay,
we can debrief Ryan.

Speaker 4 (58:53):
What do you think.

Speaker 5 (58:55):
Is she Yeah, she was about to be governor if
Harris Walls hadn't Oh that's true.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Yeah, I hadn't even thought about that.

Speaker 5 (59:04):
Yeah, there was a lot of people in Minnesota were
really rooting for Walls to become vice president just so
she could become Kuffner. So there's a double disappointment in
Minnesota when Walls came slinking back to the governor's mansion.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
She's got she's got Bernie's backing. She's one of the
candidates that he has endorsed. I mean, there's a number
of high profile races at this point that are basically
like Schumer versus Bernie, which is a kind of a
fun dynamic, telling dynamic. But I actually worked with one
of the candidates that was opposed, and I can't remember
his name at this point. He's a teacher who was
in the race against Angie Craig, so I've been.

Speaker 5 (59:41):
Very Yeah, yeah, I remember him, yeah for a while.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, And but yeah, I mean she comes out of
the medical device industry and has done a number of
favors for them, and they have a large footprint in Minnesota.
Is my rock collection as well, Like it's a big
business there, so for you know, I think Peggy is
obviously really trying to cut a pretty clear contrast in

(01:00:04):
terms of like the source of their funding, the way
that they're going about their campaigns, and then you know,
the fact that she's a Medicare for All supporter is
also obviously a significant divide at a time when healthcare
is increasingly on the minds of people.

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
Yeah, it is. You know, it is interesting because it's like, Okay,
medical device, it's a big industry, fine, but like, do
we really need a medical device executive representing them in
the Senate? It's it is such a classic right, like
a corporate executive.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Though I don't know that I don't understand the hesitation
in throwing Chuck Schumer under the bus, like like she said, he.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Doesn't like me, not supporting me. It's like, why can't
you repay the paper?

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I Kyle and I interviewed Antonio Delgado, who is the
Lieutenant governor actually of New York yesterday and is challenging
Kathy Higel and is also the progressive insurgent candidate and
same thing. I don't know what it is that the
hold that Chuck Schumer has that is just something invisible
underneath the surface. I mean, Ryan, do you have any
insight into that? Because del Gatto was New York. I

(01:01:05):
was like, an AOC also was very wouldn't.

Speaker 8 (01:01:09):
AOC and Bernie have both been keeping AOC and Berty
have both been keeping their powder dry on this, and
it's like, you guys are the revolutionaries, Like what's going
on here?

Speaker 6 (01:01:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
So I was thinking maybe there's some New York thing
that I don't get, but then to hear her so
reluctant to I'm like, what what is this?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
I don't get it.

Speaker 7 (01:01:29):
I assume it's because if Schumer is still leader and
she wins, you want.

Speaker 8 (01:01:35):
To be your appointments, your committee and.

Speaker 6 (01:01:39):
Screws your state or stuff too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Yeah, you just can't be doing this if you're going
to be the insurgent, and she's already thrown in for that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Yeah, he's already. He's already gonna hate you. I think that.

Speaker 7 (01:01:51):
I think that's what people don't understand. Like Ted Cruz was,
we're gonna make nice with Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell is
always going to hate you. It's fine, he might tell you,
but he's always going to hate you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
And I do think Schumer is just going to retire
after this term too, don't you, Ryan, Because he's gonna
he's gonna lose.

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
Right, It's like it's lifeguard rules.

Speaker 8 (01:02:12):
You know, if someone's drowning, you got to make sure
they don't like you don't drown with them, right, you
have to, like you got to pull them out. But
if they're going to pull you down.

Speaker 5 (01:02:20):
Well, but if you get points for voters for pushing
them under the water, then take the points exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Yeah, ro understands that, you know, clearly understands that. I'm
not trying to be overly negative. I thought she's she's impressive.
You know, she's got a lot to offer, and certainly
the contrast between her and Angie Kraig, who gets tons
of money from you know, pharma and device industry and
APAC and whatever. Like there's you know, very clear contrast here.
But I'm just sort of puzzling over why this is

(01:02:47):
difficult for not just her, but any number of candidates
to just be like, yeah, you know, we should listen
to the bass. The base is done with Schumer. What's
time to move on?

Speaker 5 (01:02:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Uh, And and we're gonna move on.

Speaker 8 (01:02:59):
We're going to do one last segment here in the
public half that I wanted to get to before we
switch over to the second half of the show, and
that is an AI story. We did ask her about
AI data centers, and Anthropic had a little interesting message
they released where they said this from anthropic ais Twitter account,
we disrupted a highly sophisticated AI led espionage campaign. The

(01:03:22):
attack targeted large tech companies, financial institutions, chemical manufacturing companies,
and government agencies. We assess with high confidence that the
threat actor was a Chinese state sponsored group. What are
we to make of this, first a publicly announced AI
led cyber attack.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Let me read a little bit more from the article
that they posted, just to get a few more of
the details here, which I think are very consequential they
said again from anthropic We recently argued an inflection point
had been reached in cybersecurity, a point at which AI
models had become genuinely useful for cybersecurity operations, both for

(01:04:03):
good and for ill. This was based on systematic evaluation
showing cyber capabilities doubling in six months. We'd also been
tracking real world cyber attacks observing how malicious actors were
using AI capabilities. While we predicted these capabilities would continue
to evolve, what has stood out to us as how
quickly they have done so at scale. In mid September
twenty twenty five, we detected suspicious activity that later investigation

(01:04:26):
determined to be a highly sophisticated espionage campaign. The attackers
used AI's agentic capabilities. So these AI agents that they've
been really pushing and very excited about as sort of
like the next evolution of AI technology, that's what was
used here, And they say they used it to an
unprecedented degree, using AI not just as an advisor, but

(01:04:48):
to execute the cyber attacks themselves. They say, this group
that they assessed to be a Chinese state sponsor group
manipulated our cloud code tool into attempting infiltration into roughly
third global targets and succeeded in a small number of
cases that our operation targeted large tech companies, financial institutions,

(01:05:09):
chemical manufacturing companies, which is a little scary, and government agencies.
We believe this is the first documented case of a
large scale cyber attack executed without substantial human intervention. So
that all sounds really bad. And here we are just
like going along throw you know, building out these data centers,

(01:05:29):
watching open AI and these other companies like proposed throwing
trillions of dollars at this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Any sort of breaks.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
That, we're on the car completely taken away, just wild
west off to the races, and we are just at
the beginning of the potential fallout. And here we already
have AI with the capability to pull off a mass
cyber attack hacking campaign independent of any human involvement. This
is I think it's a pretty terrifying moment.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Frankly, Yeah, somebody's going to get killed.

Speaker 7 (01:06:01):
Like that's that's somebody is actually going to die because
they lose control of this stuff. And we're all going
to say, we're all going to go through the motions
of wow, you know, we really need to start thinking,
so seriously, and we need to do something, and everybody's
already going through the motions of wow, we need to

(01:06:23):
think so seriously.

Speaker 6 (01:06:23):
It's moving so fast.

Speaker 7 (01:06:24):
But it's like it's going to take people dying for
anyone who actually has power over this to say, well,
we need guardrails.

Speaker 9 (01:06:33):
It's yeah, it's going to be like an AI chernobyl
event is what we're going to need, right Like, we're
going to need some sort of mass casualty event before
there's any regulation or any of this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
It's dark.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
But you know what, Griffin and Emily, you're exactly right
in that this is actually what a lot of people
in the AI safety or AI alignment space sort of
hope for that there's something that captures the public's attention
that is really bad but is containable and you know,

(01:07:07):
not a total like destruction of all human civilization that
opens people's eyes and forces some sort of reckoning. I mean,
that is the point where we're at where you know,
if they're being honest, these AI safety researchers who are
looking at this and feel like, already you have AI
that is capable of you know, deceit is capable now

(01:07:27):
of these mass happy attacks that already were at a
place where we don't really know what has been built
to this point. I saw someone else speculating I wish
I could remember what article this was in that basically like, well,
maybe if AI quickly gets rid of like ten percent
of the jobs, that would be enough to trigger some

(01:07:48):
sort of a mass social revolt, but before we ended
with complete societal collapse Like that's Those are the sort
of scenarios that are being openly discussed as like a
best case scenario. I mean, it's horrifying, And then I mean,
I guess the realbust case scenario is that this is
all a speculative bubble, which is possible that we never

(01:08:09):
really get.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Beyond where we are right now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Of you know, okay, you've got some chatbots and you've
got some videos, and now apparently you have the capability
to hack a bunch, which is not great, but you know,
it doesn't live up to the promise. There's a major
financial collapse in correction that would cause mass pain as well,
but at least it wouldn't be the sort of like
total societal collapse or civilizational upheaval that is being promise

(01:08:31):
slash threatened by this technology, that's the other potential outcome.
But you know, when you see things like that, you
start to feel like we may already be past the
kind of like least bad alternatives that face us on
the road at this point.

Speaker 5 (01:08:48):
Yeah, and the the fact that they suggest it came
from China is really dispiriting too, because it's like, because
that's the argument that they keep using against people who say,
shut all this crap.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
Down, but China. It was China, but it used American
AI tools, right.

Speaker 5 (01:09:06):
It's a collab, yeah, yeah, a little crossover.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:09:11):
And then I've also seen people saying this is actually
why the ethical people who are telling us we need
to make warm and fuzzy aies are wrong, because we
actually have to prepare for all out war. It's like, well,
Jesus none less, just all slit our throats now, like
that's you know, I mean, the only solution really is
as a global summit where they do the same thing

(01:09:34):
they did with nuclear non proliferation.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:09:37):
It has to be treated that way because it has
power over the entire world. It's not it doesn't stop
at anybody's borders. It has power over the entire world.
It's moving more quickly even the most powerful people in
the industry say more quickly than they are able to
keep up with. They do not know how it works,
why it does X, Y, and z in every scenario.

(01:09:58):
And that's again, people are gonna die before they actually
have any kind of summit.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Because we can, we can. We pull up the Matt
Walsh tweet.

Speaker 8 (01:10:07):
I was just going to bring that because not only
this is going to change our realities and potentially like
our political formations. If Ryan Graham and Matt Walsh are
now BFFs like there are new.

Speaker 5 (01:10:19):
He's been saying good stuff about formations happen.

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):
Actually yeah, yeah he has.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
I mean I can pull it up.

Speaker 8 (01:10:25):
I don't have it on hand, but essentially, like Ryan,
like Matt Walsh, was saying that, hey, we're scared that
we're coming up on like potentially ten to twenty five
million jobs lost in the very near future, that we're
walking straight into a wall, and there's no one in
politics really doing anything about it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Unfortunately, when I searched Matt Walsh and Ryan Graham, I
just get Ryan destroying him on Haiti.

Speaker 7 (01:10:49):
I said broad ship to Prince before you go can
hash this, We'll.

Speaker 6 (01:10:54):
Call it the Porter prince summit, and they'll hash this out.

Speaker 8 (01:10:57):
So many summits need to happen. But Ryan, what did
you make of this new alliance? If you will. I
don't know if it's horseshoe, but it's something.

Speaker 5 (01:11:06):
I mean, it's not new.

Speaker 3 (01:11:08):
Like.

Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
There are concerns on the left and the right about this,
and he's right that it doesn't sort well into our politics,
and so therefore politicians have just managed to not talk
about it. So he right, here, here's what he said said,
and here I can I can put it up one second.

(01:11:33):
So he says, AI is going to wipe out at
least twenty five million jobs in the next five to
ten years, probably much more. It will destroy every creative field.
It will make him It will make it impossible to
discern reality from fiction. It will absolutely obliterate what's left
of the education system. Kids will go through twelve years
of grade school and learn absolutely nothing. AI will do
it all for them. We have already seen the last

(01:11:54):
truly literate generation. All of this is coming and fast.
There is still time to prevent some of the worst outcomes,
or at least put them off. But our leaders aren't
doing a single thing about any of this. None of
them are taking it seriously. We're sleepwalking into a dystopia
that any rational person can see from miles away. It
drives me nuts. Or we're really just going to lie
down and let Ai take everything from us? Is that

(01:12:15):
the plan? I you know, well well said, and you
can add on to it the way that Mark Zuckerberg
has suggested that this kind of thing is a solution
to the like the loneliness crisis, because now you're gonna
have people just sitting around chatting with Ais all day,
and you know, it's like, no, we don't want this,

(01:12:37):
Like nobody wants this, and so can't somebody do something
about it? It's like his his like plea resonates. It's
like it's like, isn't there somebody who's going to do
something about this?

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
But then there needs to be the next step of
I mean, yes, someone could do something about it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
It's called the Trump administration.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
And they're the ones who you know, I mean, listen,
that's not like Biden was like had all the breaks up.
They were doing some stuff and that's part of why
these tech oligarchs all aligned against Biden is one of
the reasons. And you know, in the Trump administration, they're
given free reign. You got David Sachson there, obviously, Peter
Teel is a giant, a major ally. Marc and Dreesen
is a major ally. Elon was literally part of the government.

(01:13:23):
You know, even Sam Altman, Elon's nemesis, is brought in
for these government deal Zuckerberg hanging out with Trump, sucking
up to him, etc. You know, there's a major push
directly from this administration go in this direction, and so
if you're going to really be part of that, I
appreciate the sentiment. I'm not trying to like, you know whatever.
I appreciate the sediments. Something Emily and I have been

(01:13:44):
talking about a lot with the Peter Teel antichrist and
what he's up to there and the coalition political coalition
that needs to come together, and how it doesn't sort
ideologically neatly like you said, but we need you to
make that next step and realize who the enemy is here,
and the enemy is administration. You know, you heard Steve
Bannon early on raising flags about these like transhumanists with

(01:14:05):
this anti human ideology.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
It's truly what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
And so you know, if you're just raising the concern
without pointing the finger at the people who right now
are pushing this the hardest in the fast is it's
a little impotent.

Speaker 7 (01:14:20):
Well, and the Trump administration is falling for it, hook
line and sinker. And you know, I'm bringing people in
who aren't just falling for it, but who are obviously
part of orchestrating this takeover of the entire world, not
just our politics, not just our government, not just our media,
but the entire world. So it's happening extremely quickly. You
couldn't imagine, honestly, a worse situation where you have a

(01:14:42):
president who is totally obsessed with flattery and addicted to flattery,
and is very easily swayed by grifts like a meme
coin in order to advance his personal wealth, and is
easily swayed by the ideological pitch, you know, like you

(01:15:04):
can make lots of money. But it's also you know,
sort of anti World Economic Forum and anti global governance,
which by the way, it's not, but just saying that
he is particularly susceptible, uh to that kind of uh
persuasion and flattery.

Speaker 6 (01:15:19):
And right now.

Speaker 7 (01:15:21):
With the deregulator deregulatory push in the Trump administration, which
some of which I obviously support, is a conservative, but
not in this And so you have like the perfect
storm of things happening for accelerating A for an accelerating
AI capture and takeover. And nobody everyone's saying we should
hit the pause button except for the tech oligarchs, but

(01:15:42):
nobody is actually doing anything to hit the pause button
or to create a pause button.

Speaker 5 (01:15:46):
Well, even the tech oligarchs are saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
And and Trump I think knows that the whole stock
market is held out by Nvidia. Like the entire thing,
the entire US economy is being flowed by in video
right now without AI, you know, and data center construction.
There's zero GDP growth. Eighty percent of the gains in
the stock market are AI stock gains. Actually, there is

(01:16:11):
a bit of a slide. I haven't checked in again
this morning, but in the futures this morning, I know
things were looking pretty bad in the stock market.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
Nazac was falling to your media.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
Yeah, because yeah, stock sell off extends weighing on the
down now, so you know, he understands the stock market
and really puts a lot puts a lot of quote
unquote stock to be corny in what the numbers there say.
So I even think from that perspective like he's just
going to continue to inflate that bubble as long as
he possibly can.

Speaker 8 (01:16:42):
M Yeah, I'm also I'm not familiar with like Matt
Walsh's populist takes or what he has to say about
all of that. But I do think the Daily Wire
types are gonna come into some sort of friction with
this AI battle because, you know, if your AI critiques
are going to be a little limp if you don't
if you're if you're always saying, oh, we shouldn't demonize billionairerors,

(01:17:02):
we shouldn't demonize people who are successful. But this AI
hyper AI scalification is the result of runaway capitalism, and
if you don't but an understanding of that, then all
of your AI critiques are going to have no solutions.

Speaker 5 (01:17:19):
Ish. You know, it's ironically, I it's interesting, like who
do you trust more right now, China or the US
to build some sort of uh ethical like AI that
doesn't destroy the world. It's like this surveillance state, the
authoritarian surveillance state or the US, And it's like, wow, yeah,

(01:17:41):
actually it's not obvious because there's like there there at
least is like a pretense toward a public interest there
where in the US that's not the case. It's just
you know, gloves off, you know, zero sum.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
I just think it at you, what's I genuinely just
think it all needs to be shut down. I think
we're at that point where we are imagine and like.

Speaker 5 (01:18:05):
The nice chap like you can have like they're there.
You don't have to like go back to like zero AI.
You can still have like the you know, there are
the low level benefits of it, like transcription is better,
there's a lot of there's a lot of technology can
do when it comes to coding and software development. That's great,

(01:18:26):
that's fine. But like this thing where you're like it's
thinking for itself and doing its own do and you know,
acting in its own self interests like no, no, no,
we're good, like we got.

Speaker 7 (01:18:37):
And trying to and trying to pull the rug over
your eyes and say it's not right, like it's doing
it's it's acting in its own self interest. Well obviously
smart enough to try and deceive you that it's not
doing anything wrong whatsoever, to the point where you lose
track of it and you have no idea which they
are all saying is happening.

Speaker 6 (01:18:54):
They are losing track of it.

Speaker 7 (01:18:55):
So yeah, I mean, I think one of the reasons
that we do what we do is that most of
us real or all of us realize some of these
battles that are coming in the future are going to
require people who disagree on a lot of stuff to
fundamentally agree that what we're coming up on is a
battle between like pro humanism and transhumanism or whatever the

(01:19:16):
hell they call this, because it's happening really quickly. Anti humanism,
I think is probably a better way to put it,
and it's important to just recognize that people who support
like humanity are going to be on like there're gonna
be a lot of I think, strange bedfellows, but are
up against you know, Peter Thiel trying to convince the

(01:19:39):
Matt Walshes of the world that it would be far
worse to it. You know that, Yes, it's scary, the
future is scary. Yes, you're right, all of these possibilities
could prove true. But you know what would be worse
not doing anything, And that's the I think the sophisticated
version of the seductive efforts happening from the oligarchs.

Speaker 8 (01:20:03):
Well, we have a guest coming on the show next
week who has been writing about AI twenty twenty seven,
so look forward to that and more doomerism on the
artificial intelligence. We're going to switch over to the second
half of the show now. If you want to check
that out, go to breakingpoints dot com, sign up, become
a member. It's in the video description. There'll be a link,

(01:20:25):
and we'll see you all there in the second half.

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