Ryan and Emily discuss Trump demands Somalis out of the US, Hillary complains about anti-Israel TikToks, UK PM plot to silence Emily.
To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com
Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,
and we are so excited about what that means for
the future of this show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the only place where you can find honest
perspectives from the left and the right that simply does
not exist anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
So if that is something that's important to you, please
go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and
you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,
and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We need your help to build the future of independent
news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
In Donald Trump's marathon year end two hour plus cabinet
meeting at the White House yesterday, you won't be surprised
that he brought up the allegations that about a billion
dollars in taxpayer money was stolen in three different fraud
schemes perpetrated mostly by Somali's in Minnesota. Now, this is
(00:54):
what Trump had to say. We're gonna break it down.
But those are the allegations as they stand. Of the
people who have been try I believe only eight are
are not Minnesota and Somali's part of the diaspora, so
that's where this is coming from. Obviously, you've probably already
seen The New York Times ran a big story about this.
Semaphore reports that story came after or came out when
(01:15):
it did, because the New York Times was trying to
beat Chris Rufo of the Manhattan Institute and City Journal,
so conservative think tank to the Punch because they outlined
their story which is a bit different from.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
The New York Times story.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
And I think Ryan and I will get into why,
because Rufo actually alleged based on sourcing that some of
the money because it was going to remittances, which is
a huge part of Somalia's economy, we're funding al Shabab.
That's we're going to put aside for just one second
and take a listen here to what Donald Trump and
Christy Nome had to say.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Let's start with Trump yesterday.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Samaria's ripped off that state for billions of dollars billions
every year, billions of dollars, and.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
They contribute nothing. The welfare is like eighty eight percent.
They contribute nothing. I don't want them in our country,
I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 8 (02:11):
So we would say, oh, that's not politically correct.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
I don't care. I don't want them in our country.
Their country is no good for a reason. Their country stakes,
and we don't want them in our country. I can
say that about other countries too. I can say that
about other countries too. We don't want them to help.
Speaker 9 (02:27):
We got to.
Speaker 7 (02:28):
We have to rebuild our country. You know, our countries
at a tipping point.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
We could go bad.
Speaker 8 (02:34):
We're at a tipping point. I don't know if people
mind me saying that, but I'm saying that we could
go one way or the other, and we're going to
go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage
into our country. Elan Omar is garbage. She's garbage. Her
friends are garbage. These are people that work.
Speaker 7 (02:53):
These are people that say, let's go, come on, let's
make this place great.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
These are people that do nothing but complain.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And here's what Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noms said at
that same cabinet meeting.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
You told me to look into Minnesota and their fraud
on visas and their programs. Fifty percent of them are fraudulent,
Which means that that wacko governor Walls either is an idiot.
Or he did it on purpose, and I think he's bold, sir.
He brought people in there illegally that never should have
(03:26):
been in this country, said they were somebody that they're not.
They said they were married to somebody who was their
brother or somebody else. Fraudulent visa applications, signed up for
government programs, took hundreds of billions of dollars from the taxpayers,
and we're going to remove them and we're going to
get our money back.
Speaker 9 (03:45):
So no.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Echoing Trump's harsh language about Minnesota governor at Tim Walls there,
Trump called Tim Wallas quote seriously retarded. Over the weekend,
Walls went on Meet the Press and responded, here's a
little bit from them.
Speaker 10 (03:56):
Certainly, I take responsibility for putting people in jail. Don't
get to just talk theoretically. We have to solve problems.
And I will note it's not just Somali's. Minnesota is
a generous state. Minnesota's a prosperous days, a well run
state or triple A bond rated. But that attracts criminals.
Those people are going to jail. We're doing everything we can,
but to demonize an entire community on the actions of
(04:19):
a few it's lazy.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
So while taking credit there for what has been a
federal investigation, Walls really has not had much to do
with it. Ryan, there's a lot to talk about in
this story. What's your initial reaction to the back and
forth over the last few days.
Speaker 11 (04:35):
That well, so, and we should should we get into
rufos more sweeping claims or first we can talk about
the general claims here, like is there is there you know,
public benefits fraud among the smaller community, uh, in Minnesota. Yes,
it's a thing like they you know, there have been
(04:56):
some major prosecutions and that's you know, two walls point
that have that have targeted.
Speaker 9 (05:02):
Now.
Speaker 11 (05:02):
On the one hand, if you go looking in a
particular community for more fraud, you're gonna find more fraud.
On the other hand, there's a there's a good piece
by case of Magan, who is a one of the prosecutors.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Is this the Minnesota Reformer piece?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Yeah, we can put this up on the screen. This
is actually really good. This is E five.
Speaker 11 (05:24):
He was one of the prosecutors. He is himself of
Somali descent. I would recommend people go and go and
read this piece. But he makes a couple of points. One,
he says that a lot of the Somalis who are
here now in the United States.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
This is from twenty twenty four, by the way, before
the stream blew up.
Speaker 11 (05:40):
Right, He wrote this summer of twenty twenty four. So yeah,
these cases have been going on for a while. Said
a lot of them are have much more like education
and experience than they're able to use here in the
United States, you know, and you see this a lot.
Let's say, you know, somebody is you know, was like
(06:03):
a colonel in the military and is now driving an uber.
Speaker 9 (06:07):
Or you know, or what have you.
Speaker 11 (06:09):
And he makes the point that that's going to create
a lot of frustration that can lead to a desire
to take shortcuts to get back ahead to where you
feel like you should be because you worked so hard
your whole life and now and now here you are
and you feel like that's unjust because you and you've
got a family to support here, plus you're sending remittances
(06:31):
back to Somalia, and that's an enticement to fraud. He
also makes the point and this is this is a
point that applies across the country and applies, you know,
very particularly in South Florida, as well, it is true
that there are different communities that are more prone to fraud,
(06:51):
just South Florida being a perfect example of this.
Speaker 9 (06:56):
What he what he argued is that.
Speaker 11 (06:59):
We are the US system, or the state system is
set up to go after recipient fraud.
Speaker 9 (07:05):
Like if you're.
Speaker 11 (07:08):
Fudging the paperwork and you're ripping off the government, like
we're like, aha, we got you. But if you're a
dentist office, or you're a doctor's office or a fake
doctor's office, or you make fake wheelchairs or whatever, or
you give out free meals and the meals are funded
by the state or whatever, and you then pay off
(07:32):
give kickbacks to recipients. So now all your paperwork's kind
of in line. You're just not doing anything that is
harder for prosecutors and investigators to catch based on the
way that we're set up.
Speaker 9 (07:45):
And that's all. That's a complaint I've.
Speaker 11 (07:46):
Had about our public benefits system forever, which is that
think about who.
Speaker 9 (07:52):
That is benefiting.
Speaker 11 (07:53):
Those are the richer people who are pillars of the
community and who are donating big amounts to politicians, And
that's of people of European descent, Somali descent, Cuban descent,
Venezuelan descent doesn't matter like those types of people. Rick Scott,
for instance, is one of the greatest perpetrators. He's the
(08:15):
Florida Senator of medicare fraud in the history of the
United States. But because he is at the top of it,
he had to pay a gigantic fine, and I think
he admitted no wrongdoing or some nonsense like that, walked
away with the money, and then used the money to
buy a Senate seat. He's okay, like he's allowed to skate.
(08:40):
So that like that is we do need to change
the way that we investigate fraud. And it feels like
if AI is going to be good for anything, like
it's it's got to be good for this. Like you
we are at a point where we should be able
to figure out if you're actually making wheelchairs and selling them.
Speaker 9 (09:00):
Are you really really selling wheelchairs or not? Right? Prove
it right, and we should be able to figure that out, Like.
Speaker 11 (09:06):
You know, I don't give us some photos of the
wheelchairs or something and no stock photos like this. This
is a solvable problem, but it would take political willpower
because you're going after rich people, right, not just poor
people who are builking the system.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
I think that's totally reasonable.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
The Minnesota Reformer article you were just reading from again,
I think, you know. The other part of this is
we should be able to say, you know, and I
always put it this way, we're completely correct to be
sensitive about racism in a country that had a literal
chattel slavery system up until, you know, one hundred and
fifty years ago. It is like a huge, important part
(09:45):
of the country's history that would be ridiculous to just
get over.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
That's, you know, not how it works.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And you know, Jim Crow is within living memory of
people today.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
So we're right to be sensitive about it.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
But it's also important that we don't let those claims
get weaponized, which is exactly what actually casey case. How
am I saying that I should say correctly? Megan in
the Minnesota Reformer admits, and it's not even an admission,
because Megan is totally happy to say, this is what's happening,
(10:17):
and more people need to be comfortable diagnosing the problem.
It has nothing to do with skin color, but it
was obviously involved with the Somali community. And Meghan writes,
our system of Quran provides a social safety net.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
I don't think that I'm pronouncing that correct. That either
provides a social safety net in the form of.
Speaker 9 (10:32):
Financial not to be confused with the book the book.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Right, It's spelled similarly, but not quite to not to
be confused with it provides a social safety net in
the form of financial assistance to those who have fallen
on hard times. Unfortunately, it has also been used to
financially support people who have been charged with defrauding the government.
And this is again like a billion dollar alleged billion
dollar money laundering operation. They're not the money laundering claims
are not flimsy. We're talking about housing programs, autism programs,
(10:58):
feeding our future, so kids who were supposed to hunger,
kids who are getting meals. And I've looked at the documents.
I don't think that this is a case of over prosecution, and.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Neither does Megan, who was an investigator in the Medicaid for.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Autifications part of the prosecutions right.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Of the Minnesota Attorney General Office. And so one thing
I just do want to say is that I think
DFL folks, Dems progressives, it's not good for them to say, hey,
this is a sad story for hardworking Minnesotans who are
generous and want to support refugees and are getting absolutely
(11:35):
screwed over by this.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
By the way, Minnesotans who.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Are you know, of all stripes getting screwed over by this,
And Megan notes that Somali's got screwed over by this
were some of the victims of all of this, and so,
I mean it just I don't think it's good for
anybody to pretend that this isn't a problem in the
Somali diasper community, because what that does is open the.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
Door or uh, for for people who.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Are racist and do have bad intentions to be like, look,
they're telling you you can't say it right, and that's
that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
And people still have agency.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
If they get suckered into that stuff, that's their fault.
But if we also can't be clear about what's happening
because people are dancing around, it's not good for anyone either.
Speaker 11 (12:21):
Right, And he was writing kind of to the Somali
community saying, yes, like we need to clean this up
otherwise otherwise you know, the hammer is going to come
down and they're going to and you're going to get
a Christy nome situation where she's going to come in
and say, like, half your visas are now invalid, start
like rating people that.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
And you know, it is important from a left.
Speaker 11 (12:48):
Winging perspective that that they're in order to get buy
in for universal programs, that people trust that the programs
are being run honestly, because if if you don't look
like you're willing to root out fraud, then the right
can easily come in and be like, look, this is
all welfare fraud. Since they won't clean it up, let's
(13:11):
just get rid of the welfare.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
It's the same thing with refugee programs.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
It's important to get buy in for refugee programs that
people feel as though there's a respect for rule of
law and for the country the state that people are
being resettled in. I mean, Minnesota is a very very
generous refugee resettlement program. A lot of states in the
Upper Midwest, Oar Wisconsin definitely has that too.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
A lot of states in America do, and it's.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Because a lot of Americans genuinely feel like they want
to be a place of refuge for people who are fleeing,
like a lot of very generous and kind hearted, normal
Americans who are happy to see a little bit of
their money go to these types of programs that the
state is running.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
But you're going to lose buy in.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
For them if people believe increasingly that certain community are
taking advantage of their kindness.
Speaker 11 (14:02):
Yeah, and another point, and there's nothing And what people
need to be able to say is that there's nothing
unique or intrinsically bad about the Somali community. That fraud
often spreads through a tight knit community by word of mouth.
So and you can imagine how this would happen. And
this would be the case with say the Irish I.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Was going to say Irish Italians.
Speaker 11 (14:24):
Yes, like I mean, obviously the programs are different at
the time, but the word of mouth system where somebody
says to you, hey, you know, if you switch providers here,
they're going to give you fifteen hundred bucks and you
might not even know why they're giving you fifteen hundred bucks.
And the reason they're giving you fifteen hundred bucks is
they want your number, and that they're going to say
they gave you all of these services that they didn't
(14:45):
actually give you, and then they're going.
Speaker 9 (14:47):
To get ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 11 (14:50):
You get free treatment or no treatment at all, but
you get fifteen hundred bucks, and then you tell your
friends like, hey, if you want a free fifteen hundred bucks,
go over these guys yep. And it feels like, really,
can I do that? And then a bunch of people
do it and get away with it. I'm like, well,
I'm a sucker at this point for not getting my
(15:12):
fifteen hundred bucks. And so yeah, So at that point,
it has to be kind of a top down situation
because like, just from a risk benefit situation, most people
are gonna be like, well, okay, I'll take fifteen hundred bucks.
Speaker 9 (15:28):
It seems legali ish. I don't know, you.
Speaker 11 (15:32):
Kind of know in the back of your mind you're like,
probably isn't right, but you don't know why, and it's
not right. And they're telling you like, just sign here
and the program was passed by the state.
Speaker 9 (15:41):
And you'll get this money.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
And I really think this is why you're starting to
hear the Trump administration talking about de naturalizing people because
they don't have a lot of legal pathways to boot
Somemali Americans from the country. Because his decision to remove
TPS so Temporary Protective status from Somali's it's like seven
hundred people in Minnesota out of a sixty thousand population,
(16:07):
roughly sixty thousand population. Those are the numbers I saw
in time. But seven hundred TPS recipients, that's not like
it's that's not what the Trump administration actually wants to
be able to do, which is why I think you've
started to hear them flirt with the idea of denaturalization
just over the last week or so. I mean, obviously
that comes up from time to time, but seven hundred
(16:28):
people on TPS. A lot of these people are American citizens.
They've been here for a long time, they've gotten citizenship.
Speaker 11 (16:35):
So toward that end, that seems to be where the
Rufo piece comes in. So what Chris Rufo is arguing
is that not only is there this significant amount of fraud,
which is established and has long been reported, he's saying
it's then being funneled to Al Shabab, and his sourcing
for that is basically the blind claims of some.
Speaker 9 (16:57):
Intel officials or something.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Right, that's like two officials like.
Speaker 11 (17:00):
That, Like we're just like saying stuff like now, if
you send at enough remittances in general to any particular place,
like a powerful organization who's in that place is going
to wind up with some of the money.
Speaker 9 (17:15):
Like that is, yes, that's how it goes, but that that's.
Speaker 11 (17:18):
That's not like what he's trying to imply is that
that this is like some Al Shabab run operation right
to fund itself, right, And then there's just no evidence
for that whatsoever. And it would be rather striking use
of als Schabab's time if they were like, hey, let's
go through the Minnesota Like, I mean, it's crazier things
(17:40):
have happened, but like there's no evidence for it at
this point.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yeah, I mean this is remittances from Somali's in Minnesota
are a huge motion of the economy of Somalia itself,
which is I mean that the same is true in
a lot of.
Speaker 11 (17:53):
Central Americanists, Like remittance is like a third of the
economy or something.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
It is massive, understand ass of Yeah, it is huge
and in Mexico actually really big too, And so that
the notion that some of that money is going to
Al Shabab is eminently believable. Whether it's a concerted operation
(18:18):
is a different question, And that's actually kind of similar
to the question of Cartel Dela Soles in Venezuela, which
the Biden actually was. It was the Biden DOJ's indictment
that walked through their allegations of state sponsored narco trafficking
in Venezuela, and a lot of what it amounted to
(18:39):
was people in the military here and there taking bribes
being involved. The question of whether Nicholas Muduro is using
this cartel to wage war UH on Americans with drug
trafficking is different. These two things are not the same.
So you can have some state involvement, or you could
(19:00):
have some Al Schabab benefits, but does that justify particular
It cannot be used to justify particular actions.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Different question. I think it's a different question.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
So I think it's probably true that some of this
money ends up in the hands of al Shabab.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
I don't see any other way to go.
Speaker 9 (19:17):
Money is fungible.
Speaker 11 (19:18):
Yeah, if a lot of them, and if it makes
up you know, it's hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Now, if people take that to claim that this is
an intentional military operation from Al Shabab, lots more evidence
is needed.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Lots more evidence is on that front.
Speaker 11 (19:31):
Yeah, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
Yes, so we will see, but not what was provided. Again,
we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Seven hundred people maybe losing TPS and where it goes
from there hard to say. And whether that holds up
in court also hard to say.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yeah, And on that note, actually.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Let's transition to our guests, saent Me Homdi Ryan, someone
who was in court battles with the Trump administration.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Over in the nation as well.
Speaker 9 (19:55):
YEP.
Speaker 11 (19:58):
Joining us today is British journalist Sammy Hamdi, who thankfully
is joining us freed from American detention. Sammy, thank you
so much for being here.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 9 (20:09):
Appreciate it so.
Speaker 11 (20:11):
For people who don't know, you became kind of a
cause celeb when it comes to the question of free
speech and criticism of Israel here in the United States
when you were when you became a kind of high
profile iced detainee for about two weeks. He talked just
briefly for people who don't know the story about what
(20:33):
you were doing here in the US and how you
wound up in American custody.
Speaker 9 (20:39):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Ryan.
Speaker 12 (20:40):
So, I had the B one B two visa that
was valid for ten years. It was due to expire
in twenty twenty eight, and I had been visiting America
on numerous occasions over the past three years, in which
talking about the Middle East politics, whether it's talking about Syria,
was talking about the Gulf, and more recently about what's
happening in Palestline, what's happening in Gaza, this genocide that
is taking place. On my trips to America, I spoke
(21:03):
at you know, universities such as Berkeley, Stanford, Cooney and
these others, and welcomed in America and never really had
any issues going in and out of America. And then
two weeks prior to my detention, a right wing individual
called Dinnish de Suza put up a video of a
lecture that I gave in Kuala Lumpo, where I expressed
quite passionately that to the audience that they should keep
(21:26):
talking on social media. It's making a difference. Americans have
good hearts when they're seeing the truth. Their hearts are
flipping when they're seeing the realities of what's taking place
in Palestine, when they're seeing the images of Cindela's legs
blown off and her body hanging from the wall from
the force of the blast. When they're seeing Hindra Jab
and hearing the audio note where she's surrounded by her
corpses of her family in the car being shot at
(21:48):
by three hundred and twenty American bullets applied to the
Israelis and the Israeli's bomb the ambulance sent to save her.
Americans are moved by their hearts are changing as a
result of it when they see the video of Nahaban
Mercy on his soul holding his granddaughter, calling her the
soul of my soul. I was arguing in Kuala Lumpur
that we should have faith in humanity and that when
(22:09):
you speak through social media and provide the truth, it's
dispelling the propaganda of those supporting the genocide and the like.
Dinnish de Susa took this clip in which I was
arguing that there are hearts in corners we didn't think
possible that could flip like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, et cetera.
He took this clip and he tweeted Muslim Brotherhood Operatives
celebrates the role of Candace Owens and Tucker Carson in
(22:32):
spreading Islam in America, and Grok would respond and say,
this is absolute nonsense. Nothing in the video says anything
like that exactly, but an individual called Ted Cruz, Senator
of Texas decides to retweet it, and I land on
the attention of a lady called Laura Luma, who tweets
on the Monday as part of this Israeli lobby. Tweets
on the Monday and says there is somebody from the
(22:53):
UK who is touring the US criticizing the Israelis and
paraphrasing here, we need to get rid of his visa.
I didn't take it seriously in the sense that this
is America. There's a land of law. Laura Luma is
not the arbiter of free speech in the land of
the Free and Home of the Brave, as the American
calls itself. On the Wednesday, she tweeted, I'm in Congress
(23:14):
and I have good news coming in two days about
a certain so called operative touring the UK. At touring
the US at this moment, and I knew she's talking
about me. On the Saturday, I gave a lecture in
Sacramento at a care banquet the Council of American Islamic Relations,
in which I argued that American needs to be saved
from the Israel First lobby. I argued in that speech
(23:35):
that it is unfathomable that an American can freeze on
Magnificent Mile in Chicago and cannot access any funds to
save them from homelessness, while Congress gives fourteen billion dollars
to the Israelis First. It makes no sense. It makes
no sense that an American goes bankrupt because they can't
afford medical bills because eight billion dollars gets given by
Congress to the Israelis to give them free healthcare and
(23:57):
then commit genocide on top to slaughter the Palestinians. My
argument was that this is not just about American Israel
as one. Save America from a lobby that demands that
America suffers for the sake of genocide taking place in Palestine.
The following morning, I'm going through San Francisco Airport. I
was wearing a Malaysian battic, which is a noble dress
from Malaysia that Americans mistook for a disco shirt. I
(24:17):
don't know why, but in any case, I go through
the check in, I go through security, I look up
D thirty eight the gate to go to Tampa to
give another lecture. A gentleman approaches me and says, excuse me,
are you Sami Hamdi? I said yes. He said, sir,
I'm here to inform you that your visa has been revoked,
and it was revoked two days ago. I said to
nobody told me my visa was even under review. What
(24:39):
do you mean it's been revoked, he said, sir. Here
is the memo from the State Department. I read it.
It doesn't state any reason. It just says section this
article this we have the right to revoke it. I said,
did they give you a reason? He said, sir, they
just told me to wait for you here and to
pick you up. I said, okay. I was supposed to
go to London on second of November, six flights a
day from San Francisco. I'll just book a flight now
(25:01):
and just go to the gate for London. That's not
how this works, he said to me. Then six agents
appeared out of nowhere. They escorted me out of San
Francisco Airport. A black car with tinted windows was waiting
for me. I asked to call a lawyer. They refused,
and then when I told them there's no way I'm
getting in the car, my British citizen. I'm not some
random guy you find on the street. One of them
said relented and said, okay, you got one minute. I
(25:22):
called a lawyer who's in civil liberties. And then the
lady behind me, when I asked to call my family,
one of the agents pushes me against the car. That's enough,
you're under arrest. Now, cuffs me and they take me
on a six hour ordeal in the back of a
van to the middle of nowhere, someplace McFarland, and they
put me in a facility and I stayed there eighteen days,
and thanks to two federal judges who indicated that there
(25:43):
were serious breaches of a freedom of speech and therefore
my case should be expedited. The DHS lawyer in private,
I know what they were saying publicly, but certainly in
private they sort of said, listen, can we just clear
this up, go home and let the storm pass, and
we'll clear the record in that regard. But it was
quite the experience in that regard. But the final thing
I'll say here is before I hand back over, is
I know a lot of people focused on what happened
(26:04):
to me, but I think it should be placed in
the broader context, Ryan, in the sense that I think
that the extreme Israeli lobby bear in mind I was
not the first person they targeted. They actually went after
American citizens first to curtail the freedom of speech in
terms of what they can say about Israel. You'll remember, Ryan,
they went after American students who were with the American
Muslims for Palestine. They went after them in Michigan and
(26:27):
the judge ruled that the case should be dismissed. Then
they went after American citizens, telling.
Speaker 11 (26:31):
Them that we had one of those American citizens on
this program.
Speaker 12 (26:34):
Actually that's right exactly, and they went to in Nevada.
The judge said, this is absolute nonsense. We have freedom
of speech in this country. Then the extreme Israeli lobby said, okay,
we're struggling to go after American citizens. Let's go after
naturalized citizens. So they targeted Mattia Hasen and some of
these others and they failed. Then they said, okay, let's
go after Green card holders. We need to restrict the
rights of ordinary Americans to prevent them from accessing truth.
(26:57):
They went after Mahmud Khalil. They found that it's much
more difficult. The judges ruled he shouldn't be deported. His
case is thin and limbo, but he hasn't been deported yet.
Then they said, let's go after student visas. They went
after Romeasa ast Mosemado and other students. Let scare students
like Lyca Kurdia from preventing them from speaking out, and
they failed. The judges rule they should be released. Then
they thought, this is really bad. The constitution is against us.
(27:19):
We're unable to restrict American freedoms. We're unable to push
our way and prevent this truth from penetrating the filters
that we put on the flow of information in America.
Then they thought, there's a random UK guy from London
touring the United States. Let's go after B one, B
two visa and will take that as a victory instead.
And thankfully they failed. In the end, I was able
(27:39):
to go home free eighteen days in Ice, which was
a bit rough to be honest, but thankfully I'm home
and I consider it a win.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Well, let's take a look at the video Laura Lumer posted,
and I think this was twenty twenty three, but also
Homeland Security posted this video. Will play it in full
here so that people can see you what's in what's
in question?
Speaker 13 (27:58):
Nettigno, who did not in visage that for the first
time since nineteen forty eight, the Palestinians would actually retake
land back from the israelis NTINIAU did not envisage that
for the first time since nineteen forty eight, the Palestinians
would be able to hold those territories for more than
seventy two hours.
Speaker 14 (28:18):
We are pitying your people who brought a huge victory
since nineteen forty eight. Don't pity them. They don't want
your pity. Celebrate the victory. Allah has shown the world
that no normalization can erase the Palestinian cause. When everybody
thought it was finished, it's roaring. How many of you
feel it in your hearts when you got the news
(28:39):
that did it happened? How many of you felt the
euphoria ahlah welcome for how many of you felt it?
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Why did you feel it? Because in despair vanish you said,
this only is alive? Okay?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
So Sami obviously speech questions. I just want to put
aside for a second a question that a lot of
people might have is what was the huge victory that
was People should be celebrating and then feeling euphoria about
on October seventh or after October seventh.
Speaker 12 (29:06):
Sure, I thinking that anybody who watches the full lecture
will see that the build up to it makes it
abundantly clear the sense that normalization was taking place over
the heads of the Palestinians. People were warning that you
have to engage the Palestinians in any peace talks. And
now it's abundantly clear, after everything that has happened, that
the Palestinians are relevant and that they must be included
in peace talks. Celebrate the victory that people are talking
(29:27):
about the Palestinians again and that people are no longer
steamrolling them in any talks and discussions about their particular future.
Which is why this video was inadmissible in court, because
it's been stitched out of the wider context, and even
the Department of Homeland Security found that it could not
be submitted. And the irony is that one week later
BBC would stitch a video of one of Donald Trump's
(29:47):
speeches and a BBC director would end up resigning as well.
I think anybody who watches the full lecture makes it
sees abundantly clear what I was talking about, and I
don't think something from memory that is islamophobic and targets
all Muslim representatives and anybody who talks as a Muslim.
I don't think that any court would take anything they
say seriously, which is why not even many of the
mainstream media managed to pick it up anyway. And I
(30:09):
do want to emphasize this particular point that nothing of
what was being said publicly ever made it into a
chart sheet or was even mentioned privately. In fact, on
the Wednesday, so eleven days after I was in the
lawyer for the Department of Homeland Security went to the
federal court and said, you have no jurisdiction to assess
the right of freedom of speech for Sammy Hamdy because
(30:29):
he's a foreign alien. The judge rule that not only
do they have jurisdiction, but in the words of the judge,
we believe there are serious signs that his freedom of
speech has been infringed. The following day, the Department of
Homeland Security appointed a specific lawyer for my case to
call email and text my lawyers and say to them, listen,
can we just make this go away? Will just you know,
(30:51):
clear the record. We will pull a few strings will
get you home, you know, and we can just forget
that all of this took place. And this is the
point that I'm emphasizing here in that this had nothing
to do with anything that I said. Everything that I've said,
there's nothing wrong. Even in that clip itself, it was
not admissible in court. The problem was, how do you
silence Americans from talking about what Israel is doing in Palestine?
(31:12):
How do you create a climate of fear where even
somebody who comes from the US UK, a journalist, is
frightened to talk about Palestine. How do we make Americans
stop spreading on TikTok what's actually happening in Palestine? Something
that Hillary Clinton yesterday complained about when she's talking at
a Zionis forum, something that Anthony blink and Romney complained
about when they said we need to ban TikTok, and
(31:34):
then the fifty billion purchase of TikTok for what? And
this is the point.
Speaker 11 (31:38):
Actually, let me pause you on that real quick, because
we have that clip and it's I think it's really telling.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
Let's roll f F one for people that.
Speaker 15 (31:47):
Our students, smart, well educated young people from our own country,
from around the world, where were they getting their information.
They were getting their information from social media, particularly TikTok,
that is where they were learning about what happened in
October seventh, what happened in the days, weeks and months
(32:10):
to follow. That's a serious problem. It's a serious problem
for democracy, whether it's Israel the United States, and it's
a serious problem for our young people. And it was
frankly shocking to me how little the students we were encountering,
not only in this class we teach, which is a
very large class international relations about crisis decision making, but
(32:34):
students more generally. And that's why I mentioned the social
media piece of it, because when you would try to
talk to them, to engage in some kind of reasonable discussion,
it was very difficult because they did not know history,
They had very little context, and what they were being
(32:54):
told on social media was not just one sided, it
was pure propaganda. And so when you think about how
to tell Israel's story, and it's important, it's not just
looking internally, it's looking externally, and particularly looking at young people,
because you know, it's not just the usual suspects. It
(33:16):
is a lot of young Jewish Americans who don't know
the history and don't understand.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
Eric.
Speaker 15 (33:24):
I was talking to Condi Rice, and you know she
said in an interview that I did after the twenty
point plan came out. She and I were on CBS
and she said, you know, when people were chanting from
the river to the sea, she would ask the students
what river, what see? They didn't know I had the
same experience. A lot of the challenge is with younger people.
(33:49):
More than fifty percent of young people in America get
their news from social media. So just pause on that
for a second. They are seeing short form videos, some
of them totally made up, some of them not at
all representing what they claim to be showing, and that's
(34:14):
where they get their information.
Speaker 11 (34:16):
And so that's at an event put on by Israel's
largest newspaper, israel I Own, which is funded by Miriam
Miriam Adelson. So that just to underscore your point about
attempting control of me.
Speaker 12 (34:28):
But go ahead, but Ryan, I want to ask the
viewer to listen to what she's saying. She's not just
saying they will listen to TikTok. She's saying they weren't
listening to us. We are the gatekeepers of information. How
dore Americans go somewhere else. How do Americans exercise their
freedoms to listen to the likes of Ryan or Crystal
or Sero, the Palestinians or Martes Isaia. How their Americans
(34:51):
actually believe that the Constitution entitles them to go to
listen to information from sources other than that which we
feed them. How dare they go to breaking points instead
of CBS, where we've appointed Barry Wise in order to
filter the information that goes to Americans. How dare they
go and listen to Mehdi hassenin Zeteo instead of going
to listen to all of these other different outlets that
(35:14):
we set up specifically to make sure that the Palestinian
voice is never heard. And what Hillary Clinton is saying,
as others have said, as one of Obama's former speech
writers has been saying consistently, is is that we need
to tell the Americans how to interpret history. The lesson
from the Holocaust is not that we should support the oppressed.
It's that And then she goes on one, two, three, four.
(35:35):
The point that I'm saying here is this is not
something about Sammy Hamdy. It's not about the video that
you played. It's not about anything to do with me, whatsoever.
I got caught in the crosswind. This is about should
Americans be allowed to see the truth of what's happening
in the world, or should they only have the right
to listen to Hillary Clinton and listen to that which
Israel deems to be legitimate information that should go through.
(35:58):
And bear in mind when they talk about TikTok, they're
also talking about breaking points. They're also talking about zeteo.
They're also talking about the new media that is emerging
that is no longer beholden to these filters that used
to be put on the American people. And I'll finished
on this point, Ryan. I went to every state in
the US except New Hampshire, and I would go to
different places, whether it's Fort Worthe in Dallas and these
(36:19):
other places. I cannot stress that even the American who
was pro Israel and might be hostile to the information
coming out of Gaza in terms of denying the genocide,
denying the slaughter, denying the pictures. Whenever they saw those
graphic images. You saw Obama's former speechwriters saying, it's like
I'm talking through a carnage, you know, of dead children.
(36:40):
When I'm speaking to them. The reality is that she
mentions it. Hillary Clinton, you find even ordinary Jews and
these others American citizens waking up to what's happening. And
the tragedy of what's unfolding in America is this. It's
that you're no longer talking about America first. And I
don't hear me in Maga. I mean about the interest
of the American citizens. The whole politics at this moment
seems to be geared towards how do you control the
(37:01):
flow of information to the all American people for the
sake of a foreign government. And I was not detained
because I criticized the Americans or be it I've said
in the past, they shouldn't be supporting the genocide that's
taking place. Laura Luma came after me, not because I
criticized Washington, but because I criticized Israel. Ted Cruz came
after me, not because I criticized America, but because I
criticized Israel. This is not the America I think American
(37:23):
citizens want to live in or believe in. And that's
what Hillary Clinton is talking about. How do we silence
these voices before the Americans wake up? Because if the
Americans wake up, we get a Mendani phenomenon in New York.
If the Americans wake up, we get a situation in
New York where when Democrat and Republican establishment ally behind
Cuomo against Mendany, the people support Meddanni and mem Danieu wins.
(37:45):
The fight in America has nothing to do with Sami
or the like. It has to do with Israel first
versus America first. And again I don't mean Maga America first.
I mean the interest of American citizens. At this moment,
it looks like it's not clear who's going to win
in that regard. I got caught in the crosswind, but
thankfully I came out okay. But I do hope that
anybody listening to this can see the reality of what
(38:06):
Hillary Clinton is saying. She is saying to you, oh American,
that you have no right to exercise freedom in where
you get your information from. Listen to us, and will
tell you it's very all welly and very nineteen eighty four,
very the sense of you know, the news speaker and
all these others. And that's where I think the greatest
to America is not the Muslims. There's not anybody that's
(38:27):
been targeted by this sudden upsurge in media that Tucker Carson,
although I find it very weird that we're quoting him
left right senter these days, but it is what it is.
Given the changes that are taking place, it does feel
like an op. The greatest enemy to America today is
the one attacking American freedoms, and that attack seems to
be coming from Tel Aviv.
Speaker 11 (38:44):
I did want to press on one thing you said,
because I think it really underscores how important your case
actually is, because it reveals how thoroughly the American people
are being lied to. So I want to press on
this you said. So you saw the clip that Laura
Lumer related. Along with that clip, she and other people said,
this is a terrorist supporter, This is a Muslim Brotherhood supporter.
Speaker 9 (39:08):
This is somebody.
Speaker 11 (39:09):
That is like training people in like digital like terrorism
or something like that. There are all these words that
they used to like make speech sound very scary, and
but what you're saying is that when it came behind bars,
the our government who was sharing these Laura Lumer ideas
(39:32):
and accusations, our government who's telling the American people that
they have detained a very scary person who is doing
terrible things when it comes to criticism of Israel. That
they didn't even attempt to make those allegations behind bars,
behind the scenes.
Speaker 9 (39:49):
Is that? Is that right?
Speaker 12 (39:51):
Not Tony? That right? Not Tony? Did they make those
allegations behind the scenes, Not only did they not even
allude to it or suggested or even presented in any
way whatsoever. The sense that my lawyer's got to Indeed,
that we got when the DHS lawyer came to talk
to my lawyers, the sense was that somebody had walked
into the State Department or the DHS and sort of said, guys,
(40:12):
what idiot listened to Laura Luma? Like one on hath
happened here? Why are media coming after us with all
of this attention? Who is this guy? And who even
revoked his visa? And why did you guys listen to
Laura Luma in doing so? And the lawyer was appointed
to clean up the mess very quickly. The sense that
we got was the government was almost saying, please allow
us to say face, We'll let you go home, return,
(40:33):
let the storm pass, supply for a visa again, etc.
And whatnot. But let's just make this very easy. We
can get you home within forty eight hours, because bear
in mind, some inmates, when they agreed to go home,
they still keep them there three months and they still
kill their two months. I was expedited for two within
forty eight hours because of the urgency with which the
Departmel of Homeless Security felt they needed to close this
particular case. And this is the point that I'm making.
(40:56):
Whatever they're telling you online or whatever the battle is
taking place on social media is not the reality of
what's unfolding before you. The reality is that there is
a pr battle. But privately, the government is very much
aware that there is this schism that's taking place. And
it's true even within the State Department. Whatever Mark or
Rubio says, whatever Tricia and I'm not sure what Pranunce
has said name is exactly whatever she's saying. There are
(41:19):
people in the State Department, and there are people in
the federal courts. There are people within the government who
are not happy with the way Israel First is taking
over US policy. There is resistance in these particular areas,
even around Donald Trump. And this is not a defense
of Donald Trump at all. Like there's many stuff that
to be honest, we can say it all day and
criticize his policies. But even around him, there is this
(41:39):
battle between Israel first and America first, which is why
you're seeing this clash that's manifested online between Tucker cars
and Candace Owens, Dave Smith and these others, and the
Ted Cruisers and the Dinish, the Seuss and Laura Luma.
It shows that the perception is not of a unified
government that's agreed on these things. There is a battle
for America that is taking place. I'm not saying one
side represents American I'm saying there is a battle for
(41:59):
the heart of America and the preservation of the rights
enshrined by the constitutions. The attack is coming from Tel Aviv.
I pray that the Americans wake up quick enough before
they wake up one day and find that Tel Aviv
has not only constrained their freedoms, but even managed to
amend their own constitution.
Speaker 9 (42:16):
Okay, well, Sammy, thanks so much for joining us. You know,
really appreciate it.
Speaker 12 (42:20):
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank
you guys.
Speaker 11 (42:25):
Speaking of the United Kingdom, we have a wild news
story at drop site News today that is an adapted
excerpt of a new book called The Fraud by Paul Holden,
and it uses expanded reporting and documents that are that
are also not included in the book because the book
is basically an investigation into the political operation of Sir
(42:49):
Keir Starmer, current UK Prime Minister.
Speaker 9 (42:53):
The piece that he's writing for US.
Speaker 11 (42:55):
Today looks at a secretly funded operation that Starmer and
his current chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney were running that
has some implications for work that Emily has done in
the past. So what they did is when Jeremy Corbin
(43:18):
was rising and was the head of the Labor Party,
they came together and said, how are we going to
undercut the support for corbonism and elevate Starmer? And so
they identified a lot of progressive media that had grown
up around the kind of corbonists rise and said we
(43:39):
need to undercut these folks.
Speaker 9 (43:43):
And so they created.
Speaker 11 (43:46):
Two organizations and this is what he's able to report
with these documents, and this is what hasn't been known before.
They created an organization called Stop Stop Funding, Stop Funding
Fake News, and another one.
Speaker 9 (44:01):
Called the Center for Countering Digital Hate.
Speaker 11 (44:05):
And so they presented themselves as these they're just grassroots
Britons who are concerned about fake news and misinformation and
disinformation out there, not that they were funded by secret
money from pro Israel elements that were funneling it into
the Cure Starmer political machine.
Speaker 9 (44:26):
That's what he can report.
Speaker 11 (44:27):
So this whole thing, this whole fake news scheme that
they were running, was not grassroots, just concerned Briton's. It
was a Cure Starmer machine aimed at destroying Jeremy Corbyn.
So they went after a bunch of left wing publications.
They also went after for Balance and for Fun a
bunch of populist right wing news outlets as well, including
(44:55):
Breitbart and The Federalist, and they went after them quite hard.
Turns out, Emily is quite familiar with CCdh Center for
Countering Digital Hate. So tell us what your experience was
with this what we now know is a Cure Starmer
(45:15):
machine operation, but at the time was said to be
just people concerned about fake news.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, well this is I think this actually is a
really important story because it wasn't just like maga news organizations.
Zero Hedge was also targeted at the same time as
a lot of other conservatives. Now we know Breitbart, but
back in twenty twenty Ben Collins, who.
Speaker 5 (45:40):
I think was like the disinformation or misinformation reporter at
NBC News.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
So this is a.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Journalist basically, I'm going to read this little section from
a story he published at NBC News at the time,
tattletaled to Google about a CCdh report on the Federalist
comment section. So this is a quote from his NBC
News story. Google blocked the Federalists from its advertising platform
after the NBC News verification unit brought the project to
(46:09):
its attention. Incredible, first of all, that you have a
journalist tattle tailing on another news outlets because they don't
like this news outlet on another news outlets comment section
to who took Google? Which os a YouTube So if
you're familiar with the YouTube comment section, that's a hilarious
move on Ben Collins point. On Ben Collins part, it
(46:32):
was always so maddening that a journalist would take the
CCdh report and then tattletale to a big tech company.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
I mean, just infuriating.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
And at the time, I mean I remember the entire
mainstream media cheerleading this report from Ben Collins.
Speaker 5 (46:49):
Yeah, get them, get them.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Well, if you tattletille to Google and they shut down
your advertising platform.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
You are out of business.
Speaker 4 (46:56):
In twenty twenty, there has since been sort of parallel
efforts to.
Speaker 9 (47:00):
Back up what was the effect that it had on
the Federalists.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
So Jim Jordan came in and a couple of Republican
congressmen came in and pushed back on it, and it
went away.
Speaker 5 (47:09):
It would have totally shut.
Speaker 9 (47:10):
Down the web.
Speaker 11 (47:11):
It destroyed the Canary, which is not not just the
Canary is now making a comeback, but the Canary is
a left wing outlet in the UK. It took The
Canary from an influential news outlet of twenty five to
thirty journalists to like one person right, and they took
credit for like just destroying it that way.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
But sorry, go ahead, well no, And I mean that's
why you've talked about this recently. The speech protections in
the United States make especially if you're a journalist, can
make you very patriotic when you look at what happens
in the UK because Google. It was brought to Google's
attention that they had a clear legal problem on their hands,
and also that this type of activity was going to
(47:51):
animate Republicans on the anti trust front, which it absolutely did.
Now I would argue Google has played Trump a little
bit like a fit over the last six months plus
or I guess what, almost a year now since he
won the election, and big tech has been getting all
kinds of goodies from Donald Trump. But at the time
Google was freaked out because all of a sudden you
(48:12):
had these Republicans talking about repealing Section two thirty and
anti trust law and all of that, and so they
backed down pretty quickly, but it was still, I mean,
I think, really telling that a journalist was laundering a
report from what we now know to be a foreign
government's operation, well.
Speaker 11 (48:33):
Hoping to be a foreign government foreign political party.
Speaker 13 (48:35):
Yeah, yeah, So how.
Speaker 11 (48:37):
Does it feel to know that it was a cure
Starmer machine operation that was masquerading as this kind of
good media watchdog.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
It's not surprising at all because we saw it from
TABI did a lot of reporting back in the day
with the Global Engagement Center and Gabe Kaminski did a
lot of this too, that was propped up by the
American State Department that was putting media companies on blacklist,
including the federalists, including I think unheard where mcconumist got
on one at one point, not a conservative media outlet
at all, places like zero Hedge, like Headerodox things that
(49:08):
question Headerdox outlets that questioned the establishment.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
They like, they were all being.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Targeted by actually also groups that were propped up by
the US State Department, where they were getting most of
their funding from you know, state and from other US
governmental or non governmental organizations that are mostly given where
their budget is mostly comes.
Speaker 5 (49:29):
From the government.
Speaker 11 (49:30):
It was clearly like ideologically aligned with, say like the
Clinton wing, and it flowed out of that whole Russia
Gate and all that. But that's a little different than
it being a straight up black ops operation run out
of the Starmer machine. Like it's one thing to be
(49:51):
like these these are our allies and our friends, and
we hope that like we can weaponize them a little
bit to our advantage. And it's different to be like, oh,
this is is cure Starmer's chief of staff.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
It's crazy.
Speaker 11 (50:02):
Who is setting it up and operating this thing or
or at least or at least is very heavily involved.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
And I think that's a good point because it's especially
egregious than that you have a foreign government attempting to
influence the boundaries of free speech in the United States.
Speaker 9 (50:18):
I'm like offended on the Federalist behalf.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
We should all be I mean, we should just all
be offended as American parts behalf too, that an ally
like the UK would be interfering in what are what
is our far superior approach to free speech and the
press in the United States.
Speaker 5 (50:35):
They have to clean up their own damn house.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
And yeah, we make a lot of mistakes and the
Trump administration has had some crackdowns that journals should be
uncomfortable with and are uncomfortable with. But our system is
better than their system.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
So how dare they.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
Stick their fingers and mettle into our free press? Because
guess what it's going to come out. We're going to
figure it out. And drop side exists.
Speaker 11 (50:58):
Drop side exists that the Federalists in bright Bart they
might be sobs, but they're our sobs. I care you will,
we will take them on. And also, why don't you
don't try to do this for us?
Speaker 5 (51:11):
What's your problem with zero hedge?
Speaker 6 (51:13):
Right?
Speaker 5 (51:13):
Your problem with zero hedge is that they questioned.
Speaker 9 (51:16):
And nogeal frage and like right, yeah, but the.
Speaker 4 (51:20):
Problem with these organizations is that they question. It's happy
with TikTok, We covered this earlier in the show with
our guest. It's going to come for the left, just
because the kind of Clinton, like you said, Clinton wing
controlled a lot of our institutions post twenty seventeen and
used them to resist Trump and push back against Donald Trump.
So it was coming for the federalists in Breitbart and
(51:42):
zero Hedge whatever else.
Speaker 5 (51:44):
It's coming for the left too. It's coming, and it's.
Speaker 9 (51:46):
Going to game for him. Yeah right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
But that was always so my topic and gross and
especially that a like lefty journalists would participate in it
was really really disgusting.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
Hope we learned a lesson though, I don't.
Speaker 9 (52:00):
Okay, I get comment from him now now that he
knows that I didn't. I didn't realize that part of it.
Speaker 5 (52:07):
Yeah, I'll send you. I'll send you some stuff.
Speaker 11 (52:09):
Excellent, cool, good, Well, there should be some good follow
ups because you know, hopefully.
Speaker 5 (52:13):
Hewn the onion now so joke.
Speaker 9 (52:16):
I don't know, but so hopefully the.
Speaker 11 (52:18):
Bright part and the federalists will actually follow this up. Yeah,
we'll see it goes from.
Speaker 5 (52:23):
Here, Ryan, So glad drop side existence.
Speaker 9 (52:27):
There you go.
Speaker 11 (52:28):
All right, Well, interesting show today, so interesting, no doubt
about it. We'll be back on Friday.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
That's right, we'll be back.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
We've we have two shows left in studio before Christmas too,
so we'll be here next week week after out with
the gorgeous Christmas Lights and Christmas the.
Speaker 9 (52:43):
Core and Against catch us December tenth at where where
is it? It's on Capitol Hill, like HEAs, a place called.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
Row the Majestic Majestic Theater. You can check out the
description for the link. But yeah, Ryan and I are
debating that big tech does more harm than good. All right,
we'll feel We feel great about our our we were
morally confident in our position.
Speaker 5 (53:07):
We're doing this with the lovely folks over at Reason.
Speaker 9 (53:10):
If we lose, it was rigged.
Speaker 5 (53:11):
If we lose, it was rigged. So make sure to
stay tuned.
Speaker 4 (53:15):
If you're interested, come and see us in DC and
we will see you on Friday with more breaking points
Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,
and we are so excited about what that means for
the future of this show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the only place where you can find honest
perspectives from the left and the right that simply does
not exist anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
So if that is something that's important to you, please
go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and
you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,
and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We need your help to build the future of independent
news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
In Donald Trump's marathon year end two hour plus cabinet
meeting at the White House yesterday, you won't be surprised
that he brought up the allegations that about a billion
dollars in taxpayer money was stolen in three different fraud
schemes perpetrated mostly by Somali's in Minnesota. Now, this is
(00:54):
what Trump had to say. We're gonna break it down.
But those are the allegations as they stand. Of the
people who have been try I believe only eight are
are not Minnesota and Somali's part of the diaspora, so
that's where this is coming from. Obviously, you've probably already
seen The New York Times ran a big story about this.
Semaphore reports that story came after or came out when
(01:15):
it did, because the New York Times was trying to
beat Chris Rufo of the Manhattan Institute and City Journal,
so conservative think tank to the Punch because they outlined
their story which is a bit different from.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
The New York Times story.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
And I think Ryan and I will get into why,
because Rufo actually alleged based on sourcing that some of
the money because it was going to remittances, which is
a huge part of Somalia's economy, we're funding al Shabab.
That's we're going to put aside for just one second
and take a listen here to what Donald Trump and
Christy Nome had to say.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Let's start with Trump yesterday.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Samaria's ripped off that state for billions of dollars billions
every year, billions of dollars, and.
Speaker 7 (02:01):
They contribute nothing. The welfare is like eighty eight percent.
They contribute nothing. I don't want them in our country,
I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 8 (02:11):
So we would say, oh, that's not politically correct.
Speaker 7 (02:13):
I don't care. I don't want them in our country.
Their country is no good for a reason. Their country stakes,
and we don't want them in our country. I can
say that about other countries too. I can say that
about other countries too. We don't want them to help.
Speaker 9 (02:27):
We got to.
Speaker 7 (02:28):
We have to rebuild our country. You know, our countries
at a tipping point.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
We could go bad.
Speaker 8 (02:34):
We're at a tipping point. I don't know if people
mind me saying that, but I'm saying that we could
go one way or the other, and we're going to
go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage
into our country. Elan Omar is garbage. She's garbage. Her
friends are garbage. These are people that work.
Speaker 7 (02:53):
These are people that say, let's go, come on, let's
make this place great.
Speaker 8 (02:56):
These are people that do nothing but complain.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And here's what Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noms said at
that same cabinet meeting.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
You told me to look into Minnesota and their fraud
on visas and their programs. Fifty percent of them are fraudulent,
Which means that that wacko governor Walls either is an idiot.
Or he did it on purpose, and I think he's bold, sir.
He brought people in there illegally that never should have
(03:26):
been in this country, said they were somebody that they're not.
They said they were married to somebody who was their
brother or somebody else. Fraudulent visa applications, signed up for
government programs, took hundreds of billions of dollars from the taxpayers,
and we're going to remove them and we're going to
get our money back.
Speaker 9 (03:45):
So no.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Echoing Trump's harsh language about Minnesota governor at Tim Walls there,
Trump called Tim Wallas quote seriously retarded. Over the weekend,
Walls went on Meet the Press and responded, here's a
little bit from them.
Speaker 10 (03:56):
Certainly, I take responsibility for putting people in jail. Don't
get to just talk theoretically. We have to solve problems.
And I will note it's not just Somali's. Minnesota is
a generous state. Minnesota's a prosperous days, a well run
state or triple A bond rated. But that attracts criminals.
Those people are going to jail. We're doing everything we can,
but to demonize an entire community on the actions of
(04:19):
a few it's lazy.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
So while taking credit there for what has been a
federal investigation, Walls really has not had much to do
with it. Ryan, there's a lot to talk about in
this story. What's your initial reaction to the back and
forth over the last few days.
Speaker 11 (04:35):
That well, so, and we should should we get into
rufos more sweeping claims or first we can talk about
the general claims here, like is there is there you know,
public benefits fraud among the smaller community, uh, in Minnesota. Yes,
it's a thing like they you know, there have been
(04:56):
some major prosecutions and that's you know, two walls point
that have that have targeted.
Speaker 9 (05:02):
Now.
Speaker 11 (05:02):
On the one hand, if you go looking in a
particular community for more fraud, you're gonna find more fraud.
On the other hand, there's a there's a good piece
by case of Magan, who is a one of the prosecutors.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Is this the Minnesota Reformer piece?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Yeah, we can put this up on the screen. This
is actually really good. This is E five.
Speaker 11 (05:24):
He was one of the prosecutors. He is himself of
Somali descent. I would recommend people go and go and
read this piece. But he makes a couple of points. One,
he says that a lot of the Somalis who are
here now in the United States.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
This is from twenty twenty four, by the way, before
the stream blew up.
Speaker 11 (05:40):
Right, He wrote this summer of twenty twenty four. So yeah,
these cases have been going on for a while. Said
a lot of them are have much more like education
and experience than they're able to use here in the
United States, you know, and you see this a lot.
Let's say, you know, somebody is you know, was like
(06:03):
a colonel in the military and is now driving an uber.
Speaker 9 (06:07):
Or you know, or what have you.
Speaker 11 (06:09):
And he makes the point that that's going to create
a lot of frustration that can lead to a desire
to take shortcuts to get back ahead to where you
feel like you should be because you worked so hard
your whole life and now and now here you are
and you feel like that's unjust because you and you've
got a family to support here, plus you're sending remittances
(06:31):
back to Somalia, and that's an enticement to fraud. He
also makes the point and this is this is a
point that applies across the country and applies, you know,
very particularly in South Florida, as well, it is true
that there are different communities that are more prone to fraud,
(06:51):
just South Florida being a perfect example of this.
Speaker 9 (06:56):
What he what he argued is that.
Speaker 11 (06:59):
We are the US system, or the state system is
set up to go after recipient fraud.
Speaker 9 (07:05):
Like if you're.
Speaker 11 (07:08):
Fudging the paperwork and you're ripping off the government, like
we're like, aha, we got you. But if you're a
dentist office, or you're a doctor's office or a fake
doctor's office, or you make fake wheelchairs or whatever, or
you give out free meals and the meals are funded
by the state or whatever, and you then pay off
(07:32):
give kickbacks to recipients. So now all your paperwork's kind
of in line. You're just not doing anything that is
harder for prosecutors and investigators to catch based on the
way that we're set up.
Speaker 9 (07:45):
And that's all. That's a complaint I've.
Speaker 11 (07:46):
Had about our public benefits system forever, which is that
think about who.
Speaker 9 (07:52):
That is benefiting.
Speaker 11 (07:53):
Those are the richer people who are pillars of the
community and who are donating big amounts to politicians, And
that's of people of European descent, Somali descent, Cuban descent,
Venezuelan descent doesn't matter like those types of people. Rick Scott,
for instance, is one of the greatest perpetrators. He's the
(08:15):
Florida Senator of medicare fraud in the history of the
United States. But because he is at the top of it,
he had to pay a gigantic fine, and I think
he admitted no wrongdoing or some nonsense like that, walked
away with the money, and then used the money to
buy a Senate seat. He's okay, like he's allowed to skate.
(08:40):
So that like that is we do need to change
the way that we investigate fraud. And it feels like
if AI is going to be good for anything, like
it's it's got to be good for this. Like you
we are at a point where we should be able
to figure out if you're actually making wheelchairs and selling them.
Speaker 9 (09:00):
Are you really really selling wheelchairs or not? Right? Prove
it right, and we should be able to figure that out, Like.
Speaker 11 (09:06):
You know, I don't give us some photos of the
wheelchairs or something and no stock photos like this. This
is a solvable problem, but it would take political willpower
because you're going after rich people, right, not just poor
people who are builking the system.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
I think that's totally reasonable.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
The Minnesota Reformer article you were just reading from again,
I think, you know. The other part of this is
we should be able to say, you know, and I
always put it this way, we're completely correct to be
sensitive about racism in a country that had a literal
chattel slavery system up until, you know, one hundred and
fifty years ago. It is like a huge, important part
(09:45):
of the country's history that would be ridiculous to just
get over.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
That's, you know, not how it works.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And you know, Jim Crow is within living memory of
people today.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
So we're right to be sensitive about it.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
But it's also important that we don't let those claims
get weaponized, which is exactly what actually casey case. How
am I saying that I should say correctly? Megan in
the Minnesota Reformer admits, and it's not even an admission,
because Megan is totally happy to say, this is what's happening,
(10:17):
and more people need to be comfortable diagnosing the problem.
It has nothing to do with skin color, but it
was obviously involved with the Somali community. And Meghan writes,
our system of Quran provides a social safety net.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
I don't think that I'm pronouncing that correct. That either
provides a social safety net in the form of.
Speaker 9 (10:32):
Financial not to be confused with the book the book.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Right, It's spelled similarly, but not quite to not to
be confused with it provides a social safety net in
the form of financial assistance to those who have fallen
on hard times. Unfortunately, it has also been used to
financially support people who have been charged with defrauding the government.
And this is again like a billion dollar alleged billion
dollar money laundering operation. They're not the money laundering claims
are not flimsy. We're talking about housing programs, autism programs,
(10:58):
feeding our future, so kids who were supposed to hunger,
kids who are getting meals. And I've looked at the documents.
I don't think that this is a case of over prosecution, and.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Neither does Megan, who was an investigator in the Medicaid for.
Speaker 9 (11:10):
Autifications part of the prosecutions right.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Of the Minnesota Attorney General Office. And so one thing
I just do want to say is that I think
DFL folks, Dems progressives, it's not good for them to say, hey,
this is a sad story for hardworking Minnesotans who are
generous and want to support refugees and are getting absolutely
(11:35):
screwed over by this.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
By the way, Minnesotans who.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Are you know, of all stripes getting screwed over by this,
And Megan notes that Somali's got screwed over by this
were some of the victims of all of this, and so,
I mean it just I don't think it's good for
anybody to pretend that this isn't a problem in the
Somali diasper community, because what that does is open the.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
Door or uh, for for people who.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Are racist and do have bad intentions to be like, look,
they're telling you you can't say it right, and that's
that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
And people still have agency.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
If they get suckered into that stuff, that's their fault.
But if we also can't be clear about what's happening
because people are dancing around, it's not good for anyone either.
Speaker 11 (12:21):
Right, And he was writing kind of to the Somali
community saying, yes, like we need to clean this up
otherwise otherwise you know, the hammer is going to come
down and they're going to and you're going to get
a Christy nome situation where she's going to come in
and say, like, half your visas are now invalid, start
like rating people that.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
And you know, it is important from a left.
Speaker 11 (12:48):
Winging perspective that that they're in order to get buy
in for universal programs, that people trust that the programs
are being run honestly, because if if you don't look
like you're willing to root out fraud, then the right
can easily come in and be like, look, this is
all welfare fraud. Since they won't clean it up, let's
(13:11):
just get rid of the welfare.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
It's the same thing with refugee programs.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
It's important to get buy in for refugee programs that
people feel as though there's a respect for rule of
law and for the country the state that people are
being resettled in. I mean, Minnesota is a very very
generous refugee resettlement program. A lot of states in the
Upper Midwest, Oar Wisconsin definitely has that too.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
A lot of states in America do, and it's.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Because a lot of Americans genuinely feel like they want
to be a place of refuge for people who are fleeing,
like a lot of very generous and kind hearted, normal
Americans who are happy to see a little bit of
their money go to these types of programs that the
state is running.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
But you're going to lose buy in.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
For them if people believe increasingly that certain community are
taking advantage of their kindness.
Speaker 11 (14:02):
Yeah, and another point, and there's nothing And what people
need to be able to say is that there's nothing
unique or intrinsically bad about the Somali community. That fraud
often spreads through a tight knit community by word of mouth.
So and you can imagine how this would happen. And
this would be the case with say the Irish I.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Was going to say Irish Italians.
Speaker 11 (14:24):
Yes, like I mean, obviously the programs are different at
the time, but the word of mouth system where somebody
says to you, hey, you know, if you switch providers here,
they're going to give you fifteen hundred bucks and you
might not even know why they're giving you fifteen hundred bucks.
And the reason they're giving you fifteen hundred bucks is
they want your number, and that they're going to say
they gave you all of these services that they didn't
(14:45):
actually give you, and then they're going.
Speaker 9 (14:47):
To get ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 11 (14:50):
You get free treatment or no treatment at all, but
you get fifteen hundred bucks, and then you tell your
friends like, hey, if you want a free fifteen hundred bucks,
go over these guys yep. And it feels like, really,
can I do that? And then a bunch of people
do it and get away with it. I'm like, well,
I'm a sucker at this point for not getting my
(15:12):
fifteen hundred bucks. And so yeah, So at that point,
it has to be kind of a top down situation
because like, just from a risk benefit situation, most people
are gonna be like, well, okay, I'll take fifteen hundred bucks.
Speaker 9 (15:28):
It seems legali ish. I don't know, you.
Speaker 11 (15:32):
Kind of know in the back of your mind you're like,
probably isn't right, but you don't know why, and it's
not right. And they're telling you like, just sign here
and the program was passed by the state.
Speaker 9 (15:41):
And you'll get this money.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
And I really think this is why you're starting to
hear the Trump administration talking about de naturalizing people because
they don't have a lot of legal pathways to boot
Somemali Americans from the country. Because his decision to remove
TPS so Temporary Protective status from Somali's it's like seven
hundred people in Minnesota out of a sixty thousand population,
(16:07):
roughly sixty thousand population. Those are the numbers I saw
in time. But seven hundred TPS recipients, that's not like
it's that's not what the Trump administration actually wants to
be able to do, which is why I think you've
started to hear them flirt with the idea of denaturalization
just over the last week or so. I mean, obviously
that comes up from time to time, but seven hundred
(16:28):
people on TPS. A lot of these people are American citizens.
They've been here for a long time, they've gotten citizenship.
Speaker 11 (16:35):
So toward that end, that seems to be where the
Rufo piece comes in. So what Chris Rufo is arguing
is that not only is there this significant amount of fraud,
which is established and has long been reported, he's saying
it's then being funneled to Al Shabab, and his sourcing
for that is basically the blind claims of some.
Speaker 9 (16:57):
Intel officials or something.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Right, that's like two officials like.
Speaker 11 (17:00):
That, Like we're just like saying stuff like now, if
you send at enough remittances in general to any particular place,
like a powerful organization who's in that place is going
to wind up with some of the money.
Speaker 9 (17:15):
Like that is, yes, that's how it goes, but that that's.
Speaker 11 (17:18):
That's not like what he's trying to imply is that
that this is like some Al Shabab run operation right
to fund itself, right, And then there's just no evidence
for that whatsoever. And it would be rather striking use
of als Schabab's time if they were like, hey, let's
go through the Minnesota Like, I mean, it's crazier things
(17:40):
have happened, but like there's no evidence for it at
this point.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
Yeah, I mean this is remittances from Somali's in Minnesota
are a huge motion of the economy of Somalia itself,
which is I mean that the same is true in
a lot of.
Speaker 11 (17:53):
Central Americanists, Like remittance is like a third of the
economy or something.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
It is massive, understand ass of Yeah, it is huge
and in Mexico actually really big too, And so that
the notion that some of that money is going to
Al Shabab is eminently believable. Whether it's a concerted operation
(18:18):
is a different question, And that's actually kind of similar
to the question of Cartel Dela Soles in Venezuela, which
the Biden actually was. It was the Biden DOJ's indictment
that walked through their allegations of state sponsored narco trafficking
in Venezuela, and a lot of what it amounted to
(18:39):
was people in the military here and there taking bribes
being involved. The question of whether Nicholas Muduro is using
this cartel to wage war UH on Americans with drug
trafficking is different. These two things are not the same.
So you can have some state involvement, or you could
(19:00):
have some Al Schabab benefits, but does that justify particular
It cannot be used to justify particular actions.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
Different question. I think it's a different question.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
So I think it's probably true that some of this
money ends up in the hands of al Shabab.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
I don't see any other way to go.
Speaker 9 (19:17):
Money is fungible.
Speaker 11 (19:18):
Yeah, if a lot of them, and if it makes
up you know, it's hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Now, if people take that to claim that this is
an intentional military operation from Al Shabab, lots more evidence
is needed.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Lots more evidence is on that front.
Speaker 11 (19:31):
Yeah, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
Yes, so we will see, but not what was provided. Again,
we're talking about.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Seven hundred people maybe losing TPS and where it goes
from there hard to say. And whether that holds up
in court also hard to say.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yeah, And on that note, actually.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Let's transition to our guests, saent Me Homdi Ryan, someone
who was in court battles with the Trump administration.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Over in the nation as well.
Speaker 9 (19:55):
YEP.
Speaker 11 (19:58):
Joining us today is British journalist Sammy Hamdi, who thankfully
is joining us freed from American detention. Sammy, thank you
so much for being here.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 9 (20:09):
Appreciate it so.
Speaker 11 (20:11):
For people who don't know, you became kind of a
cause celeb when it comes to the question of free
speech and criticism of Israel here in the United States
when you were when you became a kind of high
profile iced detainee for about two weeks. He talked just
briefly for people who don't know the story about what
(20:33):
you were doing here in the US and how you
wound up in American custody.
Speaker 9 (20:39):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Ryan.
Speaker 12 (20:40):
So, I had the B one B two visa that
was valid for ten years. It was due to expire
in twenty twenty eight, and I had been visiting America
on numerous occasions over the past three years, in which
talking about the Middle East politics, whether it's talking about Syria,
was talking about the Gulf, and more recently about what's
happening in Palestline, what's happening in Gaza, this genocide that
is taking place. On my trips to America, I spoke
(21:03):
at you know, universities such as Berkeley, Stanford, Cooney and
these others, and welcomed in America and never really had
any issues going in and out of America. And then
two weeks prior to my detention, a right wing individual
called Dinnish de Suza put up a video of a
lecture that I gave in Kuala Lumpo, where I expressed
quite passionately that to the audience that they should keep
(21:26):
talking on social media. It's making a difference. Americans have
good hearts when they're seeing the truth. Their hearts are
flipping when they're seeing the realities of what's taking place
in Palestine, when they're seeing the images of Cindela's legs
blown off and her body hanging from the wall from
the force of the blast. When they're seeing Hindra Jab
and hearing the audio note where she's surrounded by her
corpses of her family in the car being shot at
(21:48):
by three hundred and twenty American bullets applied to the
Israelis and the Israeli's bomb the ambulance sent to save her.
Americans are moved by their hearts are changing as a
result of it when they see the video of Nahaban
Mercy on his soul holding his granddaughter, calling her the
soul of my soul. I was arguing in Kuala Lumpur
that we should have faith in humanity and that when
(22:09):
you speak through social media and provide the truth, it's
dispelling the propaganda of those supporting the genocide and the like.
Dinnish de Susa took this clip in which I was
arguing that there are hearts in corners we didn't think
possible that could flip like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, et cetera.
He took this clip and he tweeted Muslim Brotherhood Operatives
celebrates the role of Candace Owens and Tucker Carson in
(22:32):
spreading Islam in America, and Grok would respond and say,
this is absolute nonsense. Nothing in the video says anything
like that exactly, but an individual called Ted Cruz, Senator
of Texas decides to retweet it, and I land on
the attention of a lady called Laura Luma, who tweets
on the Monday as part of this Israeli lobby. Tweets
on the Monday and says there is somebody from the
(22:53):
UK who is touring the US criticizing the Israelis and
paraphrasing here, we need to get rid of his visa.
I didn't take it seriously in the sense that this
is America. There's a land of law. Laura Luma is
not the arbiter of free speech in the land of
the Free and Home of the Brave, as the American
calls itself. On the Wednesday, she tweeted, I'm in Congress
(23:14):
and I have good news coming in two days about
a certain so called operative touring the UK. At touring
the US at this moment, and I knew she's talking
about me. On the Saturday, I gave a lecture in
Sacramento at a care banquet the Council of American Islamic Relations,
in which I argued that American needs to be saved
from the Israel First lobby. I argued in that speech
(23:35):
that it is unfathomable that an American can freeze on
Magnificent Mile in Chicago and cannot access any funds to
save them from homelessness, while Congress gives fourteen billion dollars
to the Israelis First. It makes no sense. It makes
no sense that an American goes bankrupt because they can't
afford medical bills because eight billion dollars gets given by
Congress to the Israelis to give them free healthcare and
(23:57):
then commit genocide on top to slaughter the Palestinians. My
argument was that this is not just about American Israel
as one. Save America from a lobby that demands that
America suffers for the sake of genocide taking place in Palestine.
The following morning, I'm going through San Francisco Airport. I
was wearing a Malaysian battic, which is a noble dress
from Malaysia that Americans mistook for a disco shirt. I
(24:17):
don't know why, but in any case, I go through
the check in, I go through security, I look up
D thirty eight the gate to go to Tampa to
give another lecture. A gentleman approaches me and says, excuse me,
are you Sami Hamdi? I said yes. He said, sir,
I'm here to inform you that your visa has been revoked,
and it was revoked two days ago. I said to
nobody told me my visa was even under review. What
(24:39):
do you mean it's been revoked, he said, sir. Here
is the memo from the State Department. I read it.
It doesn't state any reason. It just says section this
article this we have the right to revoke it. I said,
did they give you a reason? He said, sir, they
just told me to wait for you here and to
pick you up. I said, okay. I was supposed to
go to London on second of November, six flights a
day from San Francisco. I'll just book a flight now
(25:01):
and just go to the gate for London. That's not
how this works, he said to me. Then six agents
appeared out of nowhere. They escorted me out of San
Francisco Airport. A black car with tinted windows was waiting
for me. I asked to call a lawyer. They refused,
and then when I told them there's no way I'm
getting in the car, my British citizen. I'm not some
random guy you find on the street. One of them
said relented and said, okay, you got one minute. I
(25:22):
called a lawyer who's in civil liberties. And then the
lady behind me, when I asked to call my family,
one of the agents pushes me against the car. That's enough,
you're under arrest. Now, cuffs me and they take me
on a six hour ordeal in the back of a
van to the middle of nowhere, someplace McFarland, and they
put me in a facility and I stayed there eighteen days,
and thanks to two federal judges who indicated that there
(25:43):
were serious breaches of a freedom of speech and therefore
my case should be expedited. The DHS lawyer in private,
I know what they were saying publicly, but certainly in
private they sort of said, listen, can we just clear
this up, go home and let the storm pass, and
we'll clear the record in that regard. But it was
quite the experience in that regard. But the final thing
I'll say here is before I hand back over, is
I know a lot of people focused on what happened
(26:04):
to me, but I think it should be placed in
the broader context, Ryan, in the sense that I think
that the extreme Israeli lobby bear in mind I was
not the first person they targeted. They actually went after
American citizens first to curtail the freedom of speech in
terms of what they can say about Israel. You'll remember, Ryan,
they went after American students who were with the American
Muslims for Palestine. They went after them in Michigan and
(26:27):
the judge ruled that the case should be dismissed. Then
they went after American citizens, telling.
Speaker 11 (26:31):
Them that we had one of those American citizens on
this program.
Speaker 12 (26:34):
Actually that's right exactly, and they went to in Nevada.
The judge said, this is absolute nonsense. We have freedom
of speech in this country. Then the extreme Israeli lobby said, okay,
we're struggling to go after American citizens. Let's go after
naturalized citizens. So they targeted Mattia Hasen and some of
these others and they failed. Then they said, okay, let's
go after Green card holders. We need to restrict the
rights of ordinary Americans to prevent them from accessing truth.
(26:57):
They went after Mahmud Khalil. They found that it's much
more difficult. The judges ruled he shouldn't be deported. His
case is thin and limbo, but he hasn't been deported yet.
Then they said, let's go after student visas. They went
after Romeasa ast Mosemado and other students. Let scare students
like Lyca Kurdia from preventing them from speaking out, and
they failed. The judges rule they should be released. Then
they thought, this is really bad. The constitution is against us.
(27:19):
We're unable to restrict American freedoms. We're unable to push
our way and prevent this truth from penetrating the filters
that we put on the flow of information in America.
Then they thought, there's a random UK guy from London
touring the United States. Let's go after B one, B
two visa and will take that as a victory instead.
And thankfully they failed. In the end, I was able
(27:39):
to go home free eighteen days in Ice, which was
a bit rough to be honest, but thankfully I'm home
and I consider it a win.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Well, let's take a look at the video Laura Lumer posted,
and I think this was twenty twenty three, but also
Homeland Security posted this video. Will play it in full
here so that people can see you what's in what's
in question?
Speaker 13 (27:58):
Nettigno, who did not in visage that for the first
time since nineteen forty eight, the Palestinians would actually retake
land back from the israelis NTINIAU did not envisage that
for the first time since nineteen forty eight, the Palestinians
would be able to hold those territories for more than
seventy two hours.
Speaker 14 (28:18):
We are pitying your people who brought a huge victory
since nineteen forty eight. Don't pity them. They don't want
your pity. Celebrate the victory. Allah has shown the world
that no normalization can erase the Palestinian cause. When everybody
thought it was finished, it's roaring. How many of you
feel it in your hearts when you got the news
(28:39):
that did it happened? How many of you felt the
euphoria ahlah welcome for how many of you felt it?
Speaker 5 (28:45):
Why did you feel it? Because in despair vanish you said,
this only is alive? Okay?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
So Sami obviously speech questions. I just want to put
aside for a second a question that a lot of
people might have is what was the huge victory that
was People should be celebrating and then feeling euphoria about
on October seventh or after October seventh.
Speaker 12 (29:06):
Sure, I thinking that anybody who watches the full lecture
will see that the build up to it makes it
abundantly clear the sense that normalization was taking place over
the heads of the Palestinians. People were warning that you
have to engage the Palestinians in any peace talks. And
now it's abundantly clear, after everything that has happened, that
the Palestinians are relevant and that they must be included
in peace talks. Celebrate the victory that people are talking
(29:27):
about the Palestinians again and that people are no longer
steamrolling them in any talks and discussions about their particular future.
Which is why this video was inadmissible in court, because
it's been stitched out of the wider context, and even
the Department of Homeland Security found that it could not
be submitted. And the irony is that one week later
BBC would stitch a video of one of Donald Trump's
(29:47):
speeches and a BBC director would end up resigning as well.
I think anybody who watches the full lecture makes it
sees abundantly clear what I was talking about, and I
don't think something from memory that is islamophobic and targets
all Muslim representatives and anybody who talks as a Muslim.
I don't think that any court would take anything they
say seriously, which is why not even many of the
mainstream media managed to pick it up anyway. And I
(30:09):
do want to emphasize this particular point that nothing of
what was being said publicly ever made it into a
chart sheet or was even mentioned privately. In fact, on
the Wednesday, so eleven days after I was in the
lawyer for the Department of Homeland Security went to the
federal court and said, you have no jurisdiction to assess
the right of freedom of speech for Sammy Hamdy because
(30:29):
he's a foreign alien. The judge rule that not only
do they have jurisdiction, but in the words of the judge,
we believe there are serious signs that his freedom of
speech has been infringed. The following day, the Department of
Homeland Security appointed a specific lawyer for my case to
call email and text my lawyers and say to them, listen,
can we just make this go away? Will just you know,
(30:51):
clear the record. We will pull a few strings will
get you home, you know, and we can just forget
that all of this took place. And this is the
point that I'm emphasizing here in that this had nothing
to do with anything that I said. Everything that I've said,
there's nothing wrong. Even in that clip itself, it was
not admissible in court. The problem was, how do you
silence Americans from talking about what Israel is doing in Palestine?
(31:12):
How do you create a climate of fear where even
somebody who comes from the US UK, a journalist, is
frightened to talk about Palestine. How do we make Americans
stop spreading on TikTok what's actually happening in Palestine? Something
that Hillary Clinton yesterday complained about when she's talking at
a Zionis forum, something that Anthony blink and Romney complained
about when they said we need to ban TikTok, and
(31:34):
then the fifty billion purchase of TikTok for what? And
this is the point.
Speaker 11 (31:38):
Actually, let me pause you on that real quick, because
we have that clip and it's I think it's really telling.
Speaker 9 (31:44):
Let's roll f F one for people that.
Speaker 15 (31:47):
Our students, smart, well educated young people from our own country,
from around the world, where were they getting their information.
They were getting their information from social media, particularly TikTok,
that is where they were learning about what happened in
October seventh, what happened in the days, weeks and months
(32:10):
to follow. That's a serious problem. It's a serious problem
for democracy, whether it's Israel the United States, and it's
a serious problem for our young people. And it was
frankly shocking to me how little the students we were encountering,
not only in this class we teach, which is a
very large class international relations about crisis decision making, but
(32:34):
students more generally. And that's why I mentioned the social
media piece of it, because when you would try to
talk to them, to engage in some kind of reasonable discussion,
it was very difficult because they did not know history,
They had very little context, and what they were being
(32:54):
told on social media was not just one sided, it
was pure propaganda. And so when you think about how
to tell Israel's story, and it's important, it's not just
looking internally, it's looking externally, and particularly looking at young people,
because you know, it's not just the usual suspects. It
(33:16):
is a lot of young Jewish Americans who don't know
the history and don't understand.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
Eric.
Speaker 15 (33:24):
I was talking to Condi Rice, and you know she
said in an interview that I did after the twenty
point plan came out. She and I were on CBS
and she said, you know, when people were chanting from
the river to the sea, she would ask the students
what river, what see? They didn't know I had the
same experience. A lot of the challenge is with younger people.
(33:49):
More than fifty percent of young people in America get
their news from social media. So just pause on that
for a second. They are seeing short form videos, some
of them totally made up, some of them not at
all representing what they claim to be showing, and that's
(34:14):
where they get their information.
Speaker 11 (34:16):
And so that's at an event put on by Israel's
largest newspaper, israel I Own, which is funded by Miriam
Miriam Adelson. So that just to underscore your point about
attempting control of me.
Speaker 12 (34:28):
But go ahead, but Ryan, I want to ask the
viewer to listen to what she's saying. She's not just
saying they will listen to TikTok. She's saying they weren't
listening to us. We are the gatekeepers of information. How
dore Americans go somewhere else. How do Americans exercise their
freedoms to listen to the likes of Ryan or Crystal
or Sero, the Palestinians or Martes Isaia. How their Americans
(34:51):
actually believe that the Constitution entitles them to go to
listen to information from sources other than that which we
feed them. How dare they go to breaking points instead
of CBS, where we've appointed Barry Wise in order to
filter the information that goes to Americans. How dare they
go and listen to Mehdi hassenin Zeteo instead of going
to listen to all of these other different outlets that
(35:14):
we set up specifically to make sure that the Palestinian
voice is never heard. And what Hillary Clinton is saying,
as others have said, as one of Obama's former speech
writers has been saying consistently, is is that we need
to tell the Americans how to interpret history. The lesson
from the Holocaust is not that we should support the oppressed.
It's that And then she goes on one, two, three, four.
(35:35):
The point that I'm saying here is this is not
something about Sammy Hamdy. It's not about the video that
you played. It's not about anything to do with me, whatsoever.
I got caught in the crosswind. This is about should
Americans be allowed to see the truth of what's happening
in the world, or should they only have the right
to listen to Hillary Clinton and listen to that which
Israel deems to be legitimate information that should go through.
(35:58):
And bear in mind when they talk about TikTok, they're
also talking about breaking points. They're also talking about zeteo.
They're also talking about the new media that is emerging
that is no longer beholden to these filters that used
to be put on the American people. And I'll finished
on this point, Ryan. I went to every state in
the US except New Hampshire, and I would go to
different places, whether it's Fort Worthe in Dallas and these
(36:19):
other places. I cannot stress that even the American who
was pro Israel and might be hostile to the information
coming out of Gaza in terms of denying the genocide,
denying the slaughter, denying the pictures. Whenever they saw those
graphic images. You saw Obama's former speechwriters saying, it's like
I'm talking through a carnage, you know, of dead children.
(36:40):
When I'm speaking to them. The reality is that she
mentions it. Hillary Clinton, you find even ordinary Jews and
these others American citizens waking up to what's happening. And
the tragedy of what's unfolding in America is this. It's
that you're no longer talking about America first. And I
don't hear me in Maga. I mean about the interest
of the American citizens. The whole politics at this moment
seems to be geared towards how do you control the
(37:01):
flow of information to the all American people for the
sake of a foreign government. And I was not detained
because I criticized the Americans or be it I've said
in the past, they shouldn't be supporting the genocide that's
taking place. Laura Luma came after me, not because I
criticized Washington, but because I criticized Israel. Ted Cruz came
after me, not because I criticized America, but because I
criticized Israel. This is not the America I think American
(37:23):
citizens want to live in or believe in. And that's
what Hillary Clinton is talking about. How do we silence
these voices before the Americans wake up? Because if the
Americans wake up, we get a Mendani phenomenon in New York.
If the Americans wake up, we get a situation in
New York where when Democrat and Republican establishment ally behind
Cuomo against Mendany, the people support Meddanni and mem Danieu wins.
(37:45):
The fight in America has nothing to do with Sami
or the like. It has to do with Israel first
versus America first. And again I don't mean Maga America first.
I mean the interest of American citizens. At this moment,
it looks like it's not clear who's going to win
in that regard. I got caught in the crosswind, but
thankfully I came out okay. But I do hope that
anybody listening to this can see the reality of what
(38:06):
Hillary Clinton is saying. She is saying to you, oh American,
that you have no right to exercise freedom in where
you get your information from. Listen to us, and will
tell you it's very all welly and very nineteen eighty four,
very the sense of you know, the news speaker and
all these others. And that's where I think the greatest
to America is not the Muslims. There's not anybody that's
(38:27):
been targeted by this sudden upsurge in media that Tucker Carson,
although I find it very weird that we're quoting him
left right senter these days, but it is what it is.
Given the changes that are taking place, it does feel
like an op. The greatest enemy to America today is
the one attacking American freedoms, and that attack seems to
be coming from Tel Aviv.
Speaker 11 (38:44):
I did want to press on one thing you said,
because I think it really underscores how important your case
actually is, because it reveals how thoroughly the American people
are being lied to. So I want to press on
this you said. So you saw the clip that Laura
Lumer related. Along with that clip, she and other people said,
this is a terrorist supporter, This is a Muslim Brotherhood supporter.
Speaker 9 (39:08):
This is somebody.
Speaker 11 (39:09):
That is like training people in like digital like terrorism
or something like that. There are all these words that
they used to like make speech sound very scary, and
but what you're saying is that when it came behind bars,
the our government who was sharing these Laura Lumer ideas
(39:32):
and accusations, our government who's telling the American people that
they have detained a very scary person who is doing
terrible things when it comes to criticism of Israel. That
they didn't even attempt to make those allegations behind bars,
behind the scenes.
Speaker 9 (39:49):
Is that? Is that right?
Speaker 12 (39:51):
Not Tony? That right? Not Tony? Did they make those
allegations behind the scenes, Not only did they not even
allude to it or suggested or even presented in any
way whatsoever. The sense that my lawyer's got to Indeed,
that we got when the DHS lawyer came to talk
to my lawyers, the sense was that somebody had walked
into the State Department or the DHS and sort of said, guys,
(40:12):
what idiot listened to Laura Luma? Like one on hath
happened here? Why are media coming after us with all
of this attention? Who is this guy? And who even
revoked his visa? And why did you guys listen to
Laura Luma in doing so? And the lawyer was appointed
to clean up the mess very quickly. The sense that
we got was the government was almost saying, please allow
us to say face, We'll let you go home, return,
(40:33):
let the storm pass, supply for a visa again, etc.
And whatnot. But let's just make this very easy. We
can get you home within forty eight hours, because bear
in mind, some inmates, when they agreed to go home,
they still keep them there three months and they still
kill their two months. I was expedited for two within
forty eight hours because of the urgency with which the
Departmel of Homeless Security felt they needed to close this
particular case. And this is the point that I'm making.
(40:56):
Whatever they're telling you online or whatever the battle is
taking place on social media is not the reality of
what's unfolding before you. The reality is that there is
a pr battle. But privately, the government is very much
aware that there is this schism that's taking place. And
it's true even within the State Department. Whatever Mark or
Rubio says, whatever Tricia and I'm not sure what Pranunce
has said name is exactly whatever she's saying. There are
(41:19):
people in the State Department, and there are people in
the federal courts. There are people within the government who
are not happy with the way Israel First is taking
over US policy. There is resistance in these particular areas,
even around Donald Trump. And this is not a defense
of Donald Trump at all. Like there's many stuff that
to be honest, we can say it all day and
criticize his policies. But even around him, there is this
(41:39):
battle between Israel first and America first, which is why
you're seeing this clash that's manifested online between Tucker cars
and Candace Owens, Dave Smith and these others, and the
Ted Cruisers and the Dinish, the Seuss and Laura Luma.
It shows that the perception is not of a unified
government that's agreed on these things. There is a battle
for America that is taking place. I'm not saying one
side represents American I'm saying there is a battle for
(41:59):
the heart of America and the preservation of the rights
enshrined by the constitutions. The attack is coming from Tel Aviv.
I pray that the Americans wake up quick enough before
they wake up one day and find that Tel Aviv
has not only constrained their freedoms, but even managed to
amend their own constitution.
Speaker 9 (42:16):
Okay, well, Sammy, thanks so much for joining us. You know,
really appreciate it.
Speaker 12 (42:20):
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank
you guys.
Speaker 11 (42:25):
Speaking of the United Kingdom, we have a wild news
story at drop site News today that is an adapted
excerpt of a new book called The Fraud by Paul Holden,
and it uses expanded reporting and documents that are that
are also not included in the book because the book
is basically an investigation into the political operation of Sir
(42:49):
Keir Starmer, current UK Prime Minister.
Speaker 9 (42:53):
The piece that he's writing for US.
Speaker 11 (42:55):
Today looks at a secretly funded operation that Starmer and
his current chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney were running that
has some implications for work that Emily has done in
the past. So what they did is when Jeremy Corbin
(43:18):
was rising and was the head of the Labor Party,
they came together and said, how are we going to
undercut the support for corbonism and elevate Starmer? And so
they identified a lot of progressive media that had grown
up around the kind of corbonists rise and said we
(43:39):
need to undercut these folks.
Speaker 9 (43:43):
And so they created.
Speaker 11 (43:46):
Two organizations and this is what he's able to report
with these documents, and this is what hasn't been known before.
They created an organization called Stop Stop Funding, Stop Funding
Fake News, and another one.
Speaker 9 (44:01):
Called the Center for Countering Digital Hate.
Speaker 11 (44:05):
And so they presented themselves as these they're just grassroots
Britons who are concerned about fake news and misinformation and
disinformation out there, not that they were funded by secret
money from pro Israel elements that were funneling it into
the Cure Starmer political machine.
Speaker 9 (44:26):
That's what he can report.
Speaker 11 (44:27):
So this whole thing, this whole fake news scheme that
they were running, was not grassroots, just concerned Briton's. It
was a Cure Starmer machine aimed at destroying Jeremy Corbyn.
So they went after a bunch of left wing publications.
They also went after for Balance and for Fun a
bunch of populist right wing news outlets as well, including
(44:55):
Breitbart and The Federalist, and they went after them quite hard.
Turns out, Emily is quite familiar with CCdh Center for
Countering Digital Hate. So tell us what your experience was
with this what we now know is a Cure Starmer
(45:15):
machine operation, but at the time was said to be
just people concerned about fake news.
Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, well this is I think this actually is a
really important story because it wasn't just like maga news organizations.
Zero Hedge was also targeted at the same time as
a lot of other conservatives. Now we know Breitbart, but
back in twenty twenty Ben Collins, who.
Speaker 5 (45:40):
I think was like the disinformation or misinformation reporter at
NBC News.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
So this is a.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Journalist basically, I'm going to read this little section from
a story he published at NBC News at the time,
tattletaled to Google about a CCdh report on the Federalist
comment section. So this is a quote from his NBC
News story. Google blocked the Federalists from its advertising platform
after the NBC News verification unit brought the project to
(46:09):
its attention. Incredible, first of all, that you have a
journalist tattle tailing on another news outlets because they don't
like this news outlet on another news outlets comment section
to who took Google? Which os a YouTube So if
you're familiar with the YouTube comment section, that's a hilarious
move on Ben Collins point. On Ben Collins part, it
(46:32):
was always so maddening that a journalist would take the
CCdh report and then tattletale to a big tech company.
Speaker 5 (46:40):
I mean, just infuriating.
Speaker 4 (46:42):
And at the time, I mean I remember the entire
mainstream media cheerleading this report from Ben Collins.
Speaker 5 (46:49):
Yeah, get them, get them.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Well, if you tattletille to Google and they shut down
your advertising platform.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
You are out of business.
Speaker 4 (46:56):
In twenty twenty, there has since been sort of parallel
efforts to.
Speaker 9 (47:00):
Back up what was the effect that it had on
the Federalists.
Speaker 4 (47:03):
So Jim Jordan came in and a couple of Republican
congressmen came in and pushed back on it, and it
went away.
Speaker 5 (47:09):
It would have totally shut.
Speaker 9 (47:10):
Down the web.
Speaker 11 (47:11):
It destroyed the Canary, which is not not just the
Canary is now making a comeback, but the Canary is
a left wing outlet in the UK. It took The
Canary from an influential news outlet of twenty five to
thirty journalists to like one person right, and they took
credit for like just destroying it that way.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
But sorry, go ahead, well no, And I mean that's
why you've talked about this recently. The speech protections in
the United States make especially if you're a journalist, can
make you very patriotic when you look at what happens
in the UK because Google. It was brought to Google's
attention that they had a clear legal problem on their hands,
and also that this type of activity was going to
(47:51):
animate Republicans on the anti trust front, which it absolutely did.
Now I would argue Google has played Trump a little
bit like a fit over the last six months plus
or I guess what, almost a year now since he
won the election, and big tech has been getting all
kinds of goodies from Donald Trump. But at the time
Google was freaked out because all of a sudden you
(48:12):
had these Republicans talking about repealing Section two thirty and
anti trust law and all of that, and so they
backed down pretty quickly, but it was still, I mean,
I think, really telling that a journalist was laundering a
report from what we now know to be a foreign
government's operation, well.
Speaker 11 (48:33):
Hoping to be a foreign government foreign political party.
Speaker 13 (48:35):
Yeah, yeah, So how.
Speaker 11 (48:37):
Does it feel to know that it was a cure
Starmer machine operation that was masquerading as this kind of
good media watchdog.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
It's not surprising at all because we saw it from
TABI did a lot of reporting back in the day
with the Global Engagement Center and Gabe Kaminski did a
lot of this too, that was propped up by the
American State Department that was putting media companies on blacklist,
including the federalists, including I think unheard where mcconumist got
on one at one point, not a conservative media outlet
at all, places like zero Hedge, like Headerodox things that
(49:08):
question Headerdox outlets that questioned the establishment.
Speaker 5 (49:12):
They like, they were all being.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Targeted by actually also groups that were propped up by
the US State Department, where they were getting most of
their funding from you know, state and from other US
governmental or non governmental organizations that are mostly given where
their budget is mostly comes.
Speaker 5 (49:29):
From the government.
Speaker 11 (49:30):
It was clearly like ideologically aligned with, say like the
Clinton wing, and it flowed out of that whole Russia
Gate and all that. But that's a little different than
it being a straight up black ops operation run out
of the Starmer machine. Like it's one thing to be
(49:51):
like these these are our allies and our friends, and
we hope that like we can weaponize them a little
bit to our advantage. And it's different to be like, oh,
this is is cure Starmer's chief of staff.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
It's crazy.
Speaker 11 (50:02):
Who is setting it up and operating this thing or
or at least or at least is very heavily involved.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
And I think that's a good point because it's especially
egregious than that you have a foreign government attempting to
influence the boundaries of free speech in the United States.
Speaker 9 (50:18):
I'm like offended on the Federalist behalf.
Speaker 4 (50:20):
We should all be I mean, we should just all
be offended as American parts behalf too, that an ally
like the UK would be interfering in what are what
is our far superior approach to free speech and the
press in the United States.
Speaker 5 (50:35):
They have to clean up their own damn house.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
And yeah, we make a lot of mistakes and the
Trump administration has had some crackdowns that journals should be
uncomfortable with and are uncomfortable with. But our system is
better than their system.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
So how dare they.
Speaker 4 (50:48):
Stick their fingers and mettle into our free press? Because
guess what it's going to come out. We're going to
figure it out. And drop side exists.
Speaker 11 (50:58):
Drop side exists that the Federalists in bright Bart they
might be sobs, but they're our sobs. I care you will,
we will take them on. And also, why don't you
don't try to do this for us?
Speaker 5 (51:11):
What's your problem with zero hedge?
Speaker 6 (51:13):
Right?
Speaker 5 (51:13):
Your problem with zero hedge is that they questioned.
Speaker 9 (51:16):
And nogeal frage and like right, yeah, but the.
Speaker 4 (51:20):
Problem with these organizations is that they question. It's happy
with TikTok, We covered this earlier in the show with
our guest. It's going to come for the left, just
because the kind of Clinton, like you said, Clinton wing
controlled a lot of our institutions post twenty seventeen and
used them to resist Trump and push back against Donald Trump.
So it was coming for the federalists in Breitbart and
(51:42):
zero Hedge whatever else.
Speaker 5 (51:44):
It's coming for the left too. It's coming, and it's.
Speaker 9 (51:46):
Going to game for him. Yeah right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
But that was always so my topic and gross and
especially that a like lefty journalists would participate in it
was really really disgusting.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
Hope we learned a lesson though, I don't.
Speaker 9 (52:00):
Okay, I get comment from him now now that he
knows that I didn't. I didn't realize that part of it.
Speaker 5 (52:07):
Yeah, I'll send you. I'll send you some stuff.
Speaker 11 (52:09):
Excellent, cool, good, Well, there should be some good follow
ups because you know, hopefully.
Speaker 5 (52:13):
Hewn the onion now so joke.
Speaker 9 (52:16):
I don't know, but so hopefully the.
Speaker 11 (52:18):
Bright part and the federalists will actually follow this up. Yeah,
we'll see it goes from.
Speaker 5 (52:23):
Here, Ryan, So glad drop side existence.
Speaker 9 (52:27):
There you go.
Speaker 11 (52:28):
All right, Well, interesting show today, so interesting, no doubt
about it. We'll be back on Friday.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
That's right, we'll be back.
Speaker 4 (52:35):
We've we have two shows left in studio before Christmas too,
so we'll be here next week week after out with
the gorgeous Christmas Lights and Christmas the.
Speaker 9 (52:43):
Core and Against catch us December tenth at where where
is it? It's on Capitol Hill, like HEAs, a place called.
Speaker 4 (52:50):
Row the Majestic Majestic Theater. You can check out the
description for the link. But yeah, Ryan and I are
debating that big tech does more harm than good. All right,
we'll feel We feel great about our our we were
morally confident in our position.
Speaker 5 (53:07):
We're doing this with the lovely folks over at Reason.
Speaker 9 (53:10):
If we lose, it was rigged.
Speaker 5 (53:11):
If we lose, it was rigged. So make sure to
stay tuned.
Speaker 4 (53:15):
If you're interested, come and see us in DC and
we will see you on Friday with more breaking points
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.