12/8/25: Boat Strike Coverup, Tim Dillon Roasts Trump, Layoffs Surge, Somalis Wage Meme War

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
We need your help to build the future of independent
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Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points. Sagers out six
so we have the lovely Emily with us. It's great
to have you onlie.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Thanks for having me. Sagers quote sick. I don't know
what he's doing. He was out last night.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
We didn't double check, but I doubt he was out
last night.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
We should We should send somebody by the house to
make sure that he's not.

Speaker 5 (00:49):
It's not a fraud.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yes, I need to a Democrat trustpoot, Verify Democrat hoax
like Affordability Democrat contract job.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Exactly lots of interesting things in the show today. We've
gotten new revelations about the boat bombings, We've got new
numbers about layoffs which are looking really not good on Molly's.
Are waging a meme war against this administration, and Israel
catching a whole lot of strays in the mix. So
you know, we are all over that pipe bomb suspect
is apparently a stop the Steeal guy. So we've got

(01:18):
some updates for you there. Hillary is doubling down on
her blaming of social media for Israel's reputation falling off,
and Sidney Sweeney is changing course. Now, you guys are
lucky Emily is here because I probably would not have
covered this one with U Sager or with Ryan, but
with you for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
But you know what, it almost would have been more
fun with just Sager and Ryan.

Speaker 5 (01:37):
We made them cover since, yeah, that would not have
gone well. I would have gone well, but not in
the same way that we wanted to.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
I pretty much know what Sager would say about it.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
He thinks, my whole like sense that in many other
people's sense that the gap, the gap American Eagle jeans
ad was Eugenic's adjacent. He thinks that's ridiculous. Ryan, I'm
curious actually now that we say it, a.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Point interested you and I had like a debate about
that was the August we did. Yeah, okay, Soger on
my side. I don't know Ryan, as I guess then
the well ask it's the swing boats boat. We'll see
the breaking point Supreme Court.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yes, indeed, all right, Well let's jump into the show.
We had Tom Cotton out on the Sunday shows defending
the double tap strike on that initial boat that with
that initial boat bombing. Let's go ahead and take a
listen to a little bit of what he had to say.

Speaker 6 (02:29):
Did you see any evidence of them trying to use
a radio in the video you saw?

Speaker 7 (02:36):
Well, I saw lots of evidence of them standing on
the boat that had been dishap sized.

Speaker 6 (02:40):
That wasn't my question.

Speaker 7 (02:41):
Did you see any trying to get it back up,
trying to trying to flip it over?

Speaker 6 (02:44):
Did you see any evidence in the trying to use
the radio?

Speaker 7 (02:46):
No, I didn't.

Speaker 6 (02:47):
Job, let me ask you this specific question. Would it
be legal for police in Arkansas to kill suspected drug
dealers on a boat in overturned Lake?

Speaker 7 (03:01):
Well, John, let me go back to the premise of
your question. The Washington Post reported that Pete Hegseth had
given an unlawful order of no quarter or no one
left alive, or kill them all. Pete Hegseth denied that
last week, and it didn't deny that there was a
second strike. Mitch Bradley and Dan Kane both flatly denied
that yesterday as well, which some of the Democrats who

(03:22):
watched that video and got those briefings confirmed. So that
was what the Washington Post reported. That is a total
and complete lie. I just respectfully disagree with my Democratic
friends here. I think the problem they have is not
with the second strike, it's with the first strike and
every other strike on these boats. They think the entire
operation is not well founded. I just disagree with them.

(03:44):
I think with the analogy I would draw is not
Arkansas police officers dealing with American citizens. If those boats
were loaded with bombs or missiles headed for the United States,
I don't think anyone would dispute that we had every right,
in indeed of duty to intercept them. But those drugs
detonate like a bomb all across Arkansas and all across America,

(04:05):
killing hundreds of our cansons and hundreds of thousands of Americans.
Our government has a duty to protect our communities from
those drugs. Exactly what we're trying to do.

Speaker 6 (04:14):
Can I just take this in pieces and we first
answered my question, would it be legal for police in
Arkansas to kill suspected drug dealers in an overturned boat
in a lake in Arkansas? I just answer that, and
then I will address your question on the other thing.

Speaker 7 (04:25):
John, the premise, the premise of your question is not
well founded. Criminals in Arkansas are not foreign nationals who
are affiliates of a foreign foreign designation. The answer is no,
it would.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
Hang on.

Speaker 6 (04:39):
The answer is no. Would not Let me ask them
all a question. If they are terrorists, when did Congress
pass the authorized use of force to attack them?

Speaker 3 (04:51):
John?

Speaker 7 (04:52):
The reason why your question is not well founded. It's
like saying, would Barack Obama be okay droning an American
citizen when he was present like he did to anwar
al a Locke verse.

Speaker 8 (05:02):
You are talking about the president protecting Americans are Kansas
from drugs, and yet just this week, the President pardoned
the former president of Honduras who trafficked more than five
hundred tons of cocaine into the United States. He was
serving a forty five year sentence. Senator, how does that
make America safer?

Speaker 7 (05:20):
Well, I haven't spoken to the president about that pardon.
There may be strategic reasons to pardon the former president
of Honduras because of our relationship with Honduras and trying
to move them in a more pro American direction. I'll
leave that open as a possibility that Christna I think,
you know, my general approach to crime is that we
should lock them. We should convict them, and then we
should lock them up, and once they're lock up, we
should keep them locked up.

Speaker 8 (05:40):
So given that, do you oppose the part given that
you're you want to protect our kansas.

Speaker 7 (05:45):
I'd have to know more about the circumstances.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
So some very interesting questions that were asked there, and
just let me break down a few of these. So,
first of all, John Berman was asking Tom Cotton, did
you see any evidence that this guy was trying to
use a radio? And the reason that's relevant is one
we've gotten a number of shifting rationales for why the
second strike in particular was legal and justified. Now Tom

(06:08):
Cotton is actually right when he says that their problem
with it is the whole operation. My problem with it
is whole operation. The whole thing is illegal, but the
nation has fixated on this second strike because it is
It's like the textbook.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Example of a war crime.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
So the reason the radio is relevant is because one
of the justifications they had was, oh, he may have
been calling in help from his cartel buddies. So that
was one of the things that was offered in some
of this reporting. Well, Tom Cotton views that video and says, well, no, actually,
I didn't see any signs of them trying to use
a radio, and others who saw that video said the

(06:43):
same thing as well. The question too about well, would
it be lawful for police officers to kill drug dealers
on a boat in an Arkansas lake. We were actually
talking about this while the clip was running. I think
that that is an excellent question, because what is the
difference between we're just going to assassinate random people that
we are not going to provide you particular evidence of
who they are in the Caribbean versus claiming those powers

(07:05):
on our own soil. One thing I've been saying that
is very disturbing about the powers that they're claiming here
and they're claim that they are at war with these
drug dealers, is that there is no limiting principle that
would keep you from taking those sorts of actions domestically.
The other thing he gets asked about the authorization of
the use of force, also very good question. You're a

(07:25):
United States senator. If we're at war, does not need
to be declared. That is a power that's supposed to
be vested with Congress. Of course, there has been no
war declared. And then the other question lastly from Kristen Welker,
there was about Wan Orlando Hernandez, who we have covered here.
That was the former Honduran president who is actually what
they're claiming Maduro was, and was involved in shipping tons

(07:46):
and tons of cocaine into the United States.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Had been convicted.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Actually by Emil Bouvet, who was fun which is funny
now you know, big Trump guy. He was the one
who prosecuted him, and he was let out of prison,
which really undercuts this idea that like, oh, we're doing
everything we can to go after this drug dealers.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
No, at best, at best.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
You're murdering some random, incredibly low level, easily replaceable, desperate
fishermen and having zero impacts on any sort of narcotics trafficking.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
We don't even they refuse to show their work as
to how they know who is on these boats. Yes,
like time and again, we actually have no idea how
they say how internally they're justifying They say they track
them and it's all totally under control. But the reason
I really loved the Burman question about when the authorized
use of military force was passed is that, well, the rumblings,

(08:36):
even though we are in the absence of like real
clear explanations as to legally why they can do what
they're doing, et cetera, they're probably going to end up
relying on the post nine to eleven AUMF as their designation,
which has by the way, been used in twenty two
countries already, and that is likely when all of these
lawsuits start happening. We already see some of the challenges

(09:00):
in motion. They will probably rely on the post nine
to eleven AUMTH Which is why that was a great
question from John Berman. And so Tom Cotton's point is
telling that Yes, he's saying, people who have a problem
with the double tap have a problem with the whole
operation in general.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yep, that's correct.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Well, said got a, sir, Yes you got it.

Speaker 5 (09:22):
Because again, if.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
We just zoom out take a thirty thousand foot view,
I actually think you people like Soger mean maybe you
and Ryan too, Crystal, but like we have a lot
of sympathy for the idea that some of these like
cartels not in Venezuela, but I would say like Sinaloa
or places that have been trafficking mass amounts of fentanyl
across our border. It's like, hmm, that's what we should

(09:46):
do something about it. I'm not saying militarily, but I'm
just saying nobody likes the cartels. Everybody thinks the cartels
have been trafficking mass amounts of ventanyl into the United
States and that that's a bad thing. What's different, of course,
is then saying that's the justification for using the post
nine eleven AMMF to take specific actions on cocaine trafficking
from Venezuela in the Caribbean. It almost preys on people's

(10:10):
upset at what's happened with fentanyl. It's like it's almost exploitive, and.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
It is exploitive. That's absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
And that's if we take we zoom out, take a
thirty thousand foot view of the ideas right now what
Tom Cotton is saying, Do I think actually they can
make the argument in court that this boat, you know,
because I think our war powers are so broad and
I think our law is so broad that I think
they probably can make this argument that the boat was
still afloat, that could be a hazard in the ocean.

(10:37):
That could you know, it could mean that someone comes rescue. Like,
I think they can flesh out their argument in court.
I might not agree with it, but if we zoom
out to the thirty thousand foot level here, the idea
that we could kill those two guys because they were
a threat to the United States is completely insane. That
they were a military threat to the United States is insane. Yeah,
it's insane.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, and let's put a three B up on the screen. Actually,
because we got some interesting details from Admiral Bradley who
was on Capitol Hill talking to lawmakers, and he admitted
that these drug boats. Our intelligence did not conclude that
if there were drugs on this boat, which again there's
been no evidence provided of. But if we take them

(11:18):
at their word that there were drugs on this boat,
they weren't even heading to the US. Rather, it showed
the boat was traveling south toward another country in South America,
which was first reported by CNA, and Bradley told the
lawmakers the drugs were eventually heading to Europe or Africa.
So Tom Cotton there says we should think about if
this was bombs that were on a boat that were
headed to the US, and how you would feel about that. Okay, well,

(11:42):
they're not even headed to the I mean, even if
we take that example, which I think is not an
equivalent example, but even if you take that example, they
weren't even heading to the US. The other thing put
a four up on the screen that was relevant from
what Admiral Bradley had to say to lawmakers is now
the new justification isn't oh they were radioing for help,

(12:04):
or oh the you know, the debris from the wreck
was going to be a waterway hazard. I don't think
anyone was buying that too much. Put a four up
on the screen. Now he's claiming that all eleven people
on this vessel were on some list of military targets,
that they knew every single person that was on the boat,
that they were all on a list of military targets,

(12:25):
and thus that makes it justified. I mean, I'm just
calling bullshit, like calling bullshit on this because if they
knew who these people were. Think of how much this
administration loves to trot out like we arrested this bad
guy who did this bad thing, and here's his mugshot.
He's locked up for good, or we deported whatever. If
they actually knew who these people were, and they were

(12:48):
some big, bad guys, we would all they would have
published their names. It would all be out there, their
whole history, it would have been put to the public. Rather,
this is just their latest scramble to try to cover
up what is. You know what is increasingly be accepted
in a bipartisan fashion as a clear war crime at best.

(13:09):
In my opinion, the whole thing is just murder, just
out and out murder. There's no war, so it can't
be a war crime. But at best it's a clear
cut war crime. Like literally in the textbook when they
give an example of the type of orders that service
members should consider disobeying. This is the type of thing
that they lay out as such a clear cut example

(13:31):
that it would justify saying, you know what, I'm not
doing this.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
I mean, I just The only thing I disagree with
is that, And I'm not an expert in military law.
I just think our laws are so broad that it
protects people doing things that are obviously ridiculous, like saying
you have to take these two guys up because they
pose a military threat to the United States. I feel
like I've seen fascinating analyzes from people who say it's true,

(13:56):
like you can legally justify it, and people say, there's
no way it's legally justify.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
It's insane.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I look at it and I'm like, it's insane for
different like law aside, it's just insane because they're clinging
to the side of a craft in the middle of
the Caribbean.

Speaker 5 (14:10):
They're not military targets.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Like, it's just a crazy idea that are like how
much money we spent on the entire operation to say
that this is something that's keeping the American people more safe.

Speaker 5 (14:21):
It's all just completely ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
But yeah, it gets extra hard to believe the story
that their military targets not do. I think maybe that
they have some like giant broad list, and that's the
language I'm parsing. Pete heighsas language, like, maybe is there
some list that says people who it's not even names,
but it's like people who are doing X, Y and
Z from this port and that port.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
Maybe.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
But at first it was this was this happened so quickly.
Now we know it was forty five minutes. Now there's
a leak saying that it was that they were on
the list.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
I mean, if they had a specific list like that,
it's hard to imagine that they're not trying these people court,
which has not happened yet. They have not tried any
of the survivors in court. They have repatriated the survivors,
which is again very interesting because if they were such
serious threats to the United States, I'd like to see
them tried in court. If they're actually going to be
if they are intentionally part of a state backed effort

(15:15):
in Venezuela to harm Americans with bio weapons or with
narco terrorism, let's do it. Let's try them. That sounds great.
I would love to see that trial. But instead they're
just going back to different countries.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, they're such violent, dangerous criminals that we're just going
to let them go free. Not even criminals, terrorists, right,
that we're just going to let them go free and
repatriate them to their home country.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
There is some reporting.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Which is I guess consistent with Wan Orlando Ornandez, we're
just pardoning.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, true, Let all out. Let's put a five up
on the screen here. This is some reporting from David
Schuster who claims he has exclusive evidence that the US
Navy actually deleted video of a different boat strike, so
the one that Anmily is referring to. There were two
instances that we know of where there were survivors. The
first boat strike where they decided just to mark the

(16:06):
two survivors as well and kill them as well. And
there was another one and that's the one where they decided, Okay,
I guess we're going to just take these two guys
and send them back to their home home countries. Schuster
is claiming he has sources that reveal that the Navy
was actually ordered to delete the photos and videos from
that second instance where there were survivors as well, so

(16:29):
attempt to cover up exactly what unfolded there. And lastly,
I mentioned before lawmakers Admiral Brown Bradley was on the
hill talking to lawmakers.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
Lawmakers were able to.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
View the full video, so you'll recall they publicized I
think they post on Twitter they were so proud of
being able to bomb this boat that got posted immediately,
But of course they did not include the forty minute
wait as survivors struggle to flip over the boat and
are waving presumably for help, desperately trying to keep their

(17:04):
lives intact.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Did not publish that part of the video.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Democrats are now calling for that additional video evidence to
be released as well. Representative Jim Himes spoke out after
he viewed it and said it was one of the
most troubling scenes that he had ever witnessed.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
Let's take a listen to that.

Speaker 9 (17:19):
I'm told that the briefings just ended on the House
side and that Democrat Congressman Jim Himes, the ranking member
of the House Intel Committee, came out spoke to media
and said they were shown the unedited video of that
second strike, and he says, quote, what I saw in
that room is one of the most troubling scenes I've

(17:40):
ever seen in my time in public service.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
So Democrats pushing to have that video released. I think
it's possible because you do have bipartisan investigations announced in
both the House and the Senate you have I think
not a lot of love for Pete. Hegseath you can
tell me, Emily, just because he's not one of them.
His time at the Pentagon has been seen as very chaotic.
He has not been, you know, really brought into the

(18:05):
inner inner circle and given the level of power that
a Marco Rubio or Stephen Miller or Susie Wiles even
has been. He's been you know, pushed in some senses
to the side in this administration, allowed to do his
little speeches and will pull up contests and whatever that
sort of track is. So it would not shock me
if they decided to sort of sacrifice Pete over this

(18:27):
issue or over other issues. It would not shock me
if for some enough Republicans on the Commune you only
need one or two in order to vote along with
the Democrats to release this footage as well.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
I definitely think they'll there's a chance they'll release the
footage because the Tom Cotton clips that we played earlier
are really instructive. They don't believe they have anything to
hide because they believe this is all legally justified fog
of war, even though we now know it was forty
five minutes. I think they're fog.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
Of war is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
In the circumstance, I think they're totally happy to have
the video come out. I'm sure it's not like their preference,
but I don't think it's keeping them up at night
because I think they feel like they have plenty of
ways to justify it. And that's one of the problems
with our system right now is you can find a
million different ways to bend over backwards and do these
legal gymnastics to justify obviously ridiculous stuff. So I don't

(19:16):
know that they're even so worried about that HeiG Seth's future.

Speaker 5 (19:20):
Seems to me this.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Is becoming like a culture worse the wrong phrase. But
if anything, this might be drawing certain Republicans even closer
to haig Seth or even more defensive of heg Seth,
because a lot of the people who were initially really
uncomfortable with heg Seth were more quote moderate Republicans who
were didn't love what he had said about Ukraine and

(19:42):
like maybe a little bit more in a neo conservative
camp to speak very roughly, and if anything, they're like, oh,
hell yeah, we're just striking people in the Caribbean now
because of raw power, got to protect heake Seth.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, there was an interesting moment with Tom Cotton where
he accidentally referred to Trump as President Bush, which was
a major Fred and Sleep slip there. Unfortunate slip there
in terms of mixing up those two presidents at this
particular moment. You know, one thing about the video footage
is it's one thing when you just see a boat

(20:17):
and it blows up, right, you don't get the sense
of like, oh my god, these are human lives, like.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
These are actual people.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
These are human beings that we are just you know,
we're just deciding to take their lives, and we're claiming
that their narco terrors were claiming all these things. We're
not being given any evidence of that. In fact, now
there's a lawsuit from the family one of the people
that was murdered who claims this was literally just a
fisherman who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

(20:46):
So that's one thing, though, just to see the boat
and all the boat blows up.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
While look at us, we're so powerful.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
It's another thing when you see human being struggling for
their lives and you watch them for forty minutes, and
then that decision is taken to murder them turns it
from a theoretical thing into a real human thing. I mean,
this is what we've seen happen in Gaza, right, Not
to equate the people there with these people whatever, but
when people were able to see in their feed the

(21:12):
humanity of these individuals who have, you know, a whole
world and the whole life and dreams and aspirations, and
saw that being snuffed out so casually in such a
barbaric way, that is.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
What you know.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
That is what overcame all of the propaganda war that
would push us to say we've got to support Israel
no matter what. And so I do think it is
a very different thing when you actually see human beings
and have to account for them as like real people
who have families and lives that are just being casually
snuffed out in this manner. I do think that that
would have an impact in the public just in the

(21:47):
same way that you know, we heard about that Epstein
birthday book and the Trump drawing.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
It was another thing to see, it, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
It had a different impact when you actually add that
and the whole book, and that landed a lot differently
with the American people more charming.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
When you saw the drawing, the scribblings, yeah, disgusting. So yeah,
there's some reports that the men on the boat were waving,
and the question is was that a sign of surrender?
Was that to the was that to the US aircraft?
Was it a sign as I think some people in
Hikesth camp have said to their own people to like

(22:24):
keep going whatever. I think that's part of the explanations
that maybe they were calling for backup or something. But
this is to the point you were just making crystal
this was not active combat, to say that this was
active combat, to say that these are these people were
engaged in active terrorism because they were allegedly they had
cocaine on a boat, which of course lots of people

(22:45):
have cocaine on boats in the Caribbean and illegal and
they're going up and bringing it to what where were
they going surinam yea somewhere.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
It's not the United States? Right, it's not.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Fentanyl well, and intended ultimately to go to the United States.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
And the question and are they actually connected to a
terrorist group, a terrorist group that could be covered under
the AOO meth I mean, it's all just the idea
that these these guys who are clinging to the side
of a boat, maybe they may be part of their
efforts to survive did involve trying to call for backup
for them.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
Maybe that's true.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
The idea that it's terror, that we just stopped terrorists
is absurd.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Yeah. Completely.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Tim Dillon had an interesting show resigned. Just listened to
the whole thing yesterday. I recommend you guys listened to
it too. It is both entertaining and also insightful, as
he often is. And he has his own theories about
why we are bombing these boats.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Let's go and take a listen to that.

Speaker 10 (23:43):
And they're not talking about Epstein, and they're not talking
about whatever the hell elsis is in these documents that
may or may not come out redacted or unredacted.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
And they're and they're and they're and they're they're not.

Speaker 10 (23:56):
Talking as much about the economy, and they're not asked
to have healthcare, and they're not asking what pollenteers doing,
and they're not asking why five tech guys in AI
control half the American economy in San Francisco, they're not
asking any of that. They're just watching a boat blow
up in the middle of the ocean. When you have

(24:17):
this clumsy, you know, kind of somewhat insane, over the
top deportations. People are looking at this and going it's unseerious,
it's childish, it's cruel. I think one of the problems
with whatever the Magat movement is evolved into is it's
duped their hardcore followers so much that the only thing

(24:39):
left now is performative cruelty.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Performative cruelty. That's his take, both on the deportations, also
on the drug boats. And I don't know if you
watch the whole thing, but basically the bit is like
they're not releasing the Epstein files, the economy sucks, like
all these things are going sideways. They're not making good
on any of these other promises or aspirations people had
for the ministry. So what does the US do when

(25:02):
the going gets tough? They have to show that they
can murder some people, they can bomb some boats. They
could the boomers, but put it up on Fox News.
The boomers will love it. People like us, We'll talk
about it, we'll debate it. Get the focus off these
other things. And so when things started going sideways, they
were like we must bomb some boats, we must kill
some people, just to show that the government even still

(25:23):
exists and is capable of projecting power. That's basically his bit.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
It's I mean, the theory I just don't think is
accurate because just from the not that I think it's
a crazy, a crazy belief, but just this has this
stuff has been percolating as what people have wanted to
do with the second Trump administration since before the Trump
second Trump administration happened.

Speaker 5 (25:47):
And to agree with Tim, I mean, I've.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Been criticized by some people for on our show talking
about how so much of this like what did you
call them? Crystal Meal Team six?

Speaker 5 (25:59):
Who? Who is that a Kyle is.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Of someone came from Twitter?

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yes, it's some of it, Like I'll I call these
guys LARPers, and people are like, no, no, it's not.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
That's that just minimizes what they're actually doing.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
It's like, no, it's I think it makes it ten
times worse that there's something performative, there's there's anything that
feels attractive in performing the like quote cruelty, which I
don't necessarily.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Make the cruelty less cruel, but the purpose of it
is a performance and.

Speaker 5 (26:30):
I think that just makes it so pathetic.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
And so that's where the theater of it, because so
much of it is theater. If you talk to like
hardcore immigration hawks, actually a lot of them are pissed
because they don't think deportations are happening at a fast
enough rate, and they're like, it's all putting on the show.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
It's a lot of theater.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
And so again I'm not I don't think I'm in
that camp. I don't know what they could possibly do
to like increase deportations other than hiring more asylum judges
at this point, but there's nothing sexy about hiring more
asylum of judges, Like you can't strap on like all
of your kevlar and bring influencers along to.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Hire asylum judges instead of actually firing a lot of
immigration judges who they don't think are going to be
sufficiently sort of like toe the you know, anti immigrant line.
But yeah, I mean that would lead to an actually
more functional system because a big part of the problem
with all of this is that you do have such
a massive backlog in the asylum system that de facto

(27:33):
people end up here for years while those claims are
being adjudicated. And so you know that is you know,
one of the big major and everybody knows this. Yeah,
this is not a secret left right c. Everybody knows this.
But that would actually like deal with the problem, make
the system more functional, and it would not create a
you know, titillating display of sadism that they are substituting

(27:57):
in for actually delivering on any of people material concerns
and needs.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Well, Christinam herself, I think is a good example if
they were like a good embody.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Moh my god.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
But because like Trump, we remember back in twenty sixteen,
he picks Mike Pence because the reports say Pence had
a like the movie star cinematic look of a vice president.
That part of the reason that Trump said he thought
he was like out of central casting. I think that's
the quote that some reports indicated was part of his thinking.

(28:26):
And Christinome, of course, is somebody who Trump wanted to
put this like tough, badass female. She wasn't chosen because
of her substantive homeland security expertise. Yeah, that's not why, Christie.
That's not been Christinoam's career. It's not why she was chosen.
He chose her for public relations he likes.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
The costume changes and the you know, play acting, right,
and presumably the hundreds of millions of dollars that were
spent in ads basically to bolster her and show her
like riding around on a horse or whatever.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yes, and you know, obviously some of that stuff like
public relations, is not unimportant. But it's just another good
example of whether you agree with the substance or you
disagree with the substance, the administration spends a lot more
time away from the substance, and I think that's extra.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
I think that really does irritate people.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Tim Dillaner otherwise when they start disagreeing with the substance,
and the politics of that become very very dangerous when
it looks like you're pouring all of your resources into
theater instead of substance.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Did you see the reports that Christinaum might be on
the rocks in the administration?

Speaker 4 (29:35):
Do you think that that is accurate?

Speaker 3 (29:38):
I don't think so. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened,
but I haven't heard anything myself like that. It wouldn't
surprise me, though, because there are people that are really
dissatisfied with the way things are, like on the right,
who are dissatisfied with the way things are being run,
not necessarily just because they think more people should be deported,
but just because I think they see everything as really
chao unnecessarily chaotic, messy. And she's graded on people. The Yeah,

(30:05):
she's graded on people. I think Coreyle Andwski's graded on people,
So it wouldn't shock.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
Me, gotcha.

Speaker 5 (30:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
The central casting thing is why I took some I
thought that the reports that Cash Buttel might be on
his way out, why I took those seriously because he
is not out of central casting. He is out of
central casting for the like bumbling idiot bureaucrat FBI director.
He is out of central casting for that, but not
for the like you know, whatever projection of strength that

(30:32):
Trump would want in that role.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
I guess maybe we should do a poll for a
pool for premium subscribers of who's the first to go?

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Because HeiG Seth, noam Cash well, right, Dan Bongino.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
If I had to guess from the cabinet, if I
had to, I would say Cash. Really, I would say
he'll be the first, But I don't know he's Obviously
we're gonna talk about this later in the show. But
he's obviously trying to endear himself to the president pretty
hard right now.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I feel like the more liberal media outlets report on
Cash on the ounce except or the safer he is
time he gets.

Speaker 5 (31:04):
That's totally true. I think it's totally true of Christino
as well.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Really, because ye on, was that another NBC reported?

Speaker 5 (31:11):
I thought that was NBC. I'm looking it up right now.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
The Cash report was actually ms now, which are now
too distinct things. They actually did pull some real reporters.
It was the Bulwark actually live yeah, an NBC. Yeah,
So okay, well we will see. But I mean, the
other thing that's interesting to note of Tim Dillon is
obviously like he was a you know, supportive of Trump,
but now he is definitely not. So that's another interesting

(31:37):
thing to note. And I think we'll tie into the
Sidney Sweeney block as well. You know, that's a unique
comparison to make, perhaps, but I mean, I think emblematic
of a vibe shift and just a general recognition that, like,
whatever hopeful thing you thought this administration was gonna be,
there's almost no one who is like, yes, this is
completely going the way that I wanted it to go,

(31:58):
even if you are, you know, hard right like immigration
hawk and you actually wanted to see millions of immigrants
support or whatever. Like when I listen to Nick Foine
has talk about how he's disappointed that there aren't millions
of people being mass deported right now. So even from
that perspective, I guess it's disappointment.

Speaker 5 (32:14):
It's it's such a it's all such a mess. The yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Been there's been a lot of like testing of policy
legal grounds, but there's also been a lot of testing
of what kind of policy constitutes a conservative immigration policy,
and not a lot of consensus but also not a
lot of backlash from the right so far.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
That could change, well, And I think Tim Dillon Sagar
has been making this point. I think you've been making
this point too, from the like I guess right wing
immigration restrictionist perspective. Not that Tim Dylan is in the
same places like where Sager is, but he's like, if
people have the choice between this like performative cruelty and
all right, we're just gonna like do this, they're going

(33:01):
to be like, yeah, we're we're not going in that direction.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
This is horrible.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
So like seeing these like kids Pepper's braid ripped apart
from their parents, and the mass thugs in the street
just like randomly assaulting people or even shooting them. It
really is very strongly discrediting the whole anti immigrant project,
and especially when that is being substituted in place of
actually addressing people's genuine concerns. And with the president out,

(33:27):
they're building his ballroom and calling affordability a quote unquote
con job.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yeah yeah, and like bringing helicopters to Chicago.

Speaker 5 (33:37):
I mean, it's all just again.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
I think the danger that they run into is, of course,
some people disagree with their immigration policy, some people are
gonna want it to go even further, but a lot
of people are also going to look at it and say,
where are you actually doing, Like what are you just
wasting everyone's money and making people mad and like causing
all of these legal problems for yourself for the country,
Like are you poor?

Speaker 5 (33:58):
Are you making this situation worse?

Speaker 3 (34:00):
And I think those three buckets, that one is the
one where you can see independent swing types be when
you lose that, you're going to make it hard for
Republicans campaigning in the midterms to defend a helicopter in
Chicago or whatever.

Speaker 11 (34:15):
It is.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
So that's where I think it gets difficult for them.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
The place that Democrats have picked up ground in these
past elections versus like and in polling versus how they
won and did well in the twenty eighteen midterms. In
the twenty eighteen midterms, it was like winning more white
college educated voters. Now this time it's actually all of
the gains have been made with non white, non college voters,

(34:44):
which I think is about two things. I think it
is a rejection of the hardline immigration policy and the
performative cruelty. And I think it's about the economy. We
have some new numbers with regard to layoffs that are
looking really grim. Charge of Secretary Scott Bessant was sent
out on the Sunday Show was once again touting his
bona fides as a soybean farmer.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

Speaker 11 (35:05):
I'm involved in the agricultural industry. I run a soybean
farm and I can.

Speaker 12 (35:10):
Tell you you invest in it, sorry, you own or investment.

Speaker 11 (35:13):
People in my family go out and work on it.

Speaker 12 (35:15):
If everything's fine, then why do farmers need a bridge
payment from the Agricultural Department?

Speaker 11 (35:19):
Sorry?

Speaker 12 (35:20):
Why would farmers need a bridge payment from the Agriculture Department.

Speaker 11 (35:23):
With that because these prices haven't come in because the
Chinese actually used our soybean farmers as ponds in the
trade negotiations, and we are going to create this bridge
because again, agriculture is all about the future. You've got
to start financing for planning. Next year they win, things
will be very good.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
So he's getting pressed there on the soybean aspect. You know,
this is a major issue in a lot of farm states.
I don't know if you guys have seen some of
the polling out of Iowa, but the governor's race there
is competitive. There's some hopefulness around the Senate race there
as well, and a large part of that is dissatisfaction
with the trade policy and the way that it has

(36:06):
hurt soybean farmers in particular. And I mean, I don't
know why he does this bit emily of insisting that
he's like super in touch with the average soybean farmer
out there, but apparently he's committed to it.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Well, he was committed to it, and except actually later
in that thing with Margaret Brennan, he said, I actually
just divested it this week referring to this quote soybean farm,
which is a twenty five million dollar operation. It's hilarious
to refer to that as a farm, which is so funny. Yeah,
but he said, I actually just divested it this week

(36:39):
as part of my ethics agreement, So I'm quote out
of that business, which is right after he said I
run a soy bean farm.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Well, Adred, I mean I did divest that, which is
I'm sure how soybean farmers describe selling their farms is
divesting from their their.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Farm now just announced literally as we were like, this
is as of ten minutes ago, we have a report
from the Wall Street Journal that Trump is unveiling a
twelve billion dollar bailout were farmers. So that echoes what
happened in the first Trump administration. But obviously another suggestion, yeah,
this is a twelve million dollar aid package too, as
the journal puts it, help that agriculture sector quote grapple

(37:14):
with the fallout from President Trump's fart reaching tariffs. So
a sign obviously, I mean that is not surprising we
saw it earlier, but a sign that the squeeze is
really starting to sink in.

Speaker 5 (37:28):
That was different.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
You know, the couple weeks after Liberation Day quote liberation day,
everyone was like, whoa, you.

Speaker 5 (37:34):
Know, what's what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
Well, now it's almost the end of the year and
they're unbilling their their aid package. So tells you what
the arc of the I guess last how many months
has that been?

Speaker 5 (37:47):
The last eight months?

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Yeah, pardy eight months? And yeah, yeah, Well and China.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
You know, once we struckt this trade deal with China,
the idea with China was going to start buying the
soybeans again, and that hasn't come through.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
That's not even talking about out there. Yeah, not even close.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
And you know, for the farmers that I've heard interviewed,
you know, I'm sure the bailout will help, but they
don't want a bailout. They want to have a sustainable
market that they can sell into, which, you know, whole
other conversation about why we are so dependent on China
for sales of soybeans from you know, from our farmers,
but we'll put that aside for now. Scott Bessett was

(38:25):
also asked about President Trump saying that affordability is a
quote unquote con job. Let's go ahead and take a
listen to how he defended that, and.

Speaker 12 (38:32):
We hear from, for example, the President when he says
that affordability is a con job by Democrats. That seems
to just not be resonating with consumers that have been
pulled by CBS. Sixty percent of Americans pulled by this
network told this President Trump makes prices in inflation sound
better than they really are, and his approval rating in
the economy is now down to thirty six percent. In

(38:54):
our latest poll on inflation, approval is even lower thirty
two percent. Don't you need to show that you feel
the pain?

Speaker 11 (39:03):
Well, Margaret, I think the presence, frustrated by the media
coverage of what's going.

Speaker 12 (39:07):
On, is polling average Americans.

Speaker 11 (39:10):
Yeah, but I think the average Americans they are hearing
a lot of from media coverage. What we're not going
to do is say that Americans don't know what they're feeling.
We've been working on it every day. The American people
don't know how good they have it.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
There is an affordability problem. Sorry, you do believe that.

Speaker 11 (39:27):
Oh, I think the Biden administration created a till but now.

Speaker 12 (39:30):
Only twelve months in, you said the president would own
the economy at this point.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
So two things there First of all, he's saying, oh,
the media coverage is driving people to feel like the
economy's not great.

Speaker 4 (39:39):
He has that wine in there.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Americans don't know how good they have a good lucks
all in that one, buddy. And then the other piece
that people just aren't buying at this point is that
this is all still Biden's fault. You know, even Republicans
when you ask them, like whose fault it is, they
will put more blame at Biden's fee. But come on,
you all have been in office almost a year now.
You made all these grand promises, and I think critically
Trump has had.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
His hands all over this economy.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
A lot of promises were made about how glorious the
tariffs would be and what it would mean for the economy,
et cetera. And so here as we're heading into the
holiday season and you have this, you know, sense of betrayal, distrust,
malaise at best with this administration still trying to point
the finger at the other guy.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Is just not going to cut it.

Speaker 9 (40:20):
No.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
I saw a really interesting proposal from Chris Jacobs writing
in the Federal so obviously from the right, which was
to help actually ease some of the backlash to tariffs
and the general economy. Could the Trump administration ease tariffs?
Actually this is pretty smart on things like coffee, bananas,

(40:41):
food stuffs that like literally cannot be grown at scale
in the United States going into twenty twenty six that
I could see happening.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
I thought they were doing that.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
They might.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
I mean, I haven't seen anything that is like a
concerted effort, but because still what they're doing, and what
would be very difficult about that is they're still doing
these carve out deals where it's based on their conversations
and meetings.

Speaker 5 (41:04):
The push a pull not necessarily.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
Brought a gold bar this week.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah right, there's that too, but not necessarily like some
grand strategy about what's being grown here food wise, what's
being grown here, what's being sold elsewhere, and that sort
of thing.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
So we could see something like that happen.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
And the reason that politically it's obviously a disaster and
they know, I mean people when people see high prices
at the grocery store, they don't see things coming down.
Whether or not it's the president's fault, they're going to
blame the party in power, and Republicans right now have
the House, the Senate, and the presidency, so they're sure
is hell going to blame Republicans this time around. I

(41:41):
think though, the bigger problem for the administration is housing
and healthcare, because those are like the two biggest parts
of people's budgets. There's also childcare, which is insane in
certain states. And yeah, like they have not really done
much on any of that, let alone messaging on any
of that. Trump obviously knows that housing is a problem
for him because he was saying that Jay Powell was

(42:04):
essentially creating an emergency for American families within.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
The interest rate.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
So I don't know, like it's those are the big ones,
and there's nothing that you can really teariff with your
if his tariff power even continues to exist as he's
used it, you can't just wave a magic wand on those.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
There's also reporting from the Wall Street Journal about the
fact that Trump just doesn't really like he actually thinks
that affordability is a quote unquote con job. He thinks
that the economy is doing great, you know, the metrics,
he's looking at the stock market. He thinks that people
should be satisfied with this. And there's a sort of
like whole of administration effort to get him to care

(42:43):
about affordability and take it seriously and refocus some of
his dwindling brain share mind share from the ballroom expansion
to affordability and actually like get in the game with that.
That there's like a concerted effort being made, and you
know they're struggling to get him to really sort of
focus in on what Americans routinely say is their biggest concern.

(43:06):
You mentioned healthcare. I think you're absolutely right. I mean,
this is one thing you can say about the Democrats
shut down fight is it really did put the spotlight
on healthcare. It really did help to educate people about, Okay,
these premiums are going up, and who is to blame
for that. I mean, there are a lot of people
to blame, but one of the immediate factors is the
imminent expiration of these ACA subsidies. That it helped keep

(43:29):
things more reasonable, especially for middle class families. One Republican
who's considered a moderate and a swing district representative Fitzpatrick,
was speaking out against Republicans in general and their lack
of any sort of a healthcare plan.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
This is B six. Let's go ahead and take a
listen to that.

Speaker 13 (43:45):
Well, I say that if you don't have a better plan,
then get on board with ours. But doing nothing is not.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
An option, right.

Speaker 13 (43:52):
I mean, I've heard so many people in the Republican
conference rail on the Affordable Care Act, rail on Obamacare,
rail on the premium text credits. You want to criticize something,
that's okay as long as you have a better alternative.
They have never offered a better alternative. They we went
down this healthcare path my freshman term. I voted against
the repeal DACA. I thought the replacement was insufficient, it

(44:13):
was hastily put together, not well thought out. And here
we are, you know what, eight years later, and they
still have not been able to put together an articuable plan.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
So it's sounding a little like Marjorie Taylor Green.

Speaker 5 (44:25):
There, Congressmanellan coming. Yeah, Well, that's actually been the.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Because Margie Tayler Green was seen as obviously hardcore MAGA,
and I think that's a fair characterization of her. Brian
Fitzpatrick is not hardcore mega.

Speaker 11 (44:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
And so that's where, you know, basically you still have the.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Kind of Chamber of Commerce style Republicans who are all
about just what's the best way to put it? I mean,
I don't even know like all about trickle down economics
is probably the best way to put it. Who still
aren't really paying attention to the stone really see it
as the five alarm fire that it is unless they

(45:03):
can talk about repealing Obamacare. When it comes to replacing Obamacare,
there's literally no consensus point on that. And that's where
I think, because you have the Fitzpatricks and the MTGS.
MTG is not out of Congress until the new year,
so keep that in mind for when it comes down
to voting these tax not these tax credit these healthcare
credits expire at the end of the year, so they're

(45:25):
going to need a vote on that before the end
of the year if they don't want them to expire
heading into the midterm cycle with huge premium spikes that
are about to come everyone's way, so they need to fast.
I mean, it is December eighth. They need to come
up with something on this, like yesterday.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
I remember on a few weeks ago, Trump was like, oh,
we've got a healthcare plan.

Speaker 4 (45:44):
We're going to announce it yep.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
And then it was leaked what the details were and
they hadn't run it by anyone in Congress apparently, and
then there was a big backlash to what the you know,
what the proposal was, which basically involved extending the Obamcare
substies for two years and then some other little tweaks,
and there were a bunch of Republicans who were like, oh,
we don't like this, what are you doing? And then
that gets scrapped and we haven't heard anything else about

(46:07):
a healthcare plan moving forward, and you know, I mean
for Fitzpatrick Holso from Marjorie Taylor Green and they complain about,
like the GOP doesn't have a healthcare plan. That's not
like you are a member of Congress, but you could
have an idea of your own.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
You could offer something.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
But the problem has always been that because Obamacare was
basically the Republican proposal, they have never figured out you know,
that was borrowed from the romneycare in Massachusetts, which came
from like Heritage Foundation ideas, and so they've never really
figured out what their proposal would be, and so they've

(46:43):
just tried to either they would run on like repeal
and replace, being very vague about what the replace would entail,
or just railed against Obamacare in terms of coming up
with an affirmative solution that has always been a real
weak point for them. And it is interesting on the
Democratic side too because Kamala Harris and Joe Biden also
didn't weren't that interested in talking about healthcare. You know,

(47:04):
that was really gift to Republicans in a lot of
ways because it is a very weak issue for them.
Joe Biden originally ran on a public option, then of
course that got scrapped. They didn't even try to do
anything with that during the campaign. Kamala Harris nominally in
favor of a public option, again, wasn't a major debate
point during the campaign. Trump famously said he had concepts
of a plan. The healthcare debate is also becoming much

(47:28):
hotter and more central in Democratic party primaries, and you
have a lot more Democrats who are now getting on
board with Medicare for all because they see the reality
of the system as it is. You just had Chris
van Holland come out and do a video saying and
this is what listen, this is where we're at.

Speaker 4 (47:45):
We've got to support Medicare for all.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
But they see where the base of the party is
is headed right now as well, and what a pain
point this is so, I do think that this is
going to become a more central issue, take more of
a central role in our politics, the way that it
was in twenty sixteen, in the world, that it did
in the twenty twenty primaries as well.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
There's a very obvious solution on the table for them,
but the problem is, to your point, again, there is
no consensus policy. The obvious solution here is that you
easily pass an extension of the credits, like, just do it,
extend the credits. You can do it a year, you
can do it two years, and then say we're going
to do this, but we will have a healthcare bill
on the floor of the House for a vote by March. Right,

(48:23):
But they don't want to do that, of course, because
they don't actually have anything now. Morally and politically, it
is foolish not to spend while you have the House
and the Senate your political and the presidency your political
capital over the next year coming up with a Republican
health care plan over the next couple of months. I mean,
it is so urgent, But if you're a member of Congress,

(48:44):
or if you're somebody lobbying members of Congress on behalf
on behalf of these insurance companies. You don't feel this
in your even I mean, it hits people across every
income spectrum really hard, but you just don't feel like
the average American family feels it. So you're disconnected from
the degree to which it's an emergency.

Speaker 9 (49:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (49:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
At the same time, list of B three up on
the screen, we're getting more and more numbers about accelerating
layoffs and just what the picture looks like. So this
is Frank lenz Here says this year has had the
highest layoffs since twenty twenty, of course, which was COVID.
It's an extraordinary situation. If you take away twenty twenty,
it's the highest number of job cuts since two thousand
and nine. So you know, really a lot of layoffs,

(49:27):
and you could put befour up on the screen. This
is a partial list of some of the large companies
that have announced layoffs. The US government three hundred seven
thousand employees. Sometimes that gets left off, but that is
very significant part of our economy and what's going on
Ups forty eight thousand employees and right now as we
go into the holiday season, that is crazy. Amazon up

(49:48):
to thirty thousand employees, also crazy, Intel twenty four, k
Nesley sixteen, Verizon fifteen, Eccentrire eleven four to eleven, Nova,
Nordisk nine thousand, Microsoft seven, PwC fifty six hundred, Salesforce
four thousand, IBM twenty seven hundred, American Airlines twenty seven hundred,
Paramount two thousand, Target eighteen hundred, GM fifteen hundred, Applied
Materials fourteen hundred, Kroger one thousand, Meta six hundred, And

(50:12):
then this is the COBEC letter says where will all
these people go? Which is a very good question. Then
put the five up on the screen as well. We
also have an accelerating number of bankruptcies. Seven hundred and
seventeen US large companies This is from that same account,
by the way, have gone bankrupt year to date. That's

(50:33):
the most in fifteen years. This is now higher than
every full year total since twenty ten. And again that's
not even through the end of the year. This also
marks the third consecutive annual increase, a ninety three percent
jump since twenty twenty two. In November alone, sixty two
large firms filed for bankruptcy, after sixty eight and sixty.

Speaker 4 (50:51):
Six in October and September.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
US bankruptcies this year now running plus thirty percent above
the annual average for twenty eleven to twenty two.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Twenty four.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Corporate bankruptcies are surging outside of the AI trade and
we covered last week the ADP payroll numbers that showed
job loss and there so this is focused on large
firms filing for bankruptcy. The job loss was coming overwhelmingly
from small businesses who have really struggled to be able

(51:22):
to navigate the political landscape and the tariff landscape. I
think in particular, because if you're a large firm, Okay,
Trump's you know, the tariffs are on, they're off, etc.
We've got our stockpiles, We're able to plan in advance,
we have the cash to be able to ride this out.
It's going to be okay. If you're a small business,
you're kind of doing the equivalent of living pay to
paycheck to paycheck, Like you don't have this massive cash

(51:44):
reserve where you can just ride things down. You also
don't have, you know, like a million dollars to throw
around to go to a mar A Lago dinner and
ask the president for whatever favor you need for your
business to be able to make it. So I think
that's a big part of the reason why so many
small businesses are shuttering right now now. And it's also
a continuation of a trend of you know, massive corporate
consolidation in America that's been ongoing for decades at this point.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Yeah, And I mean, I'm a tariff person. I'm looking
at this White House rundown right now of new investments
in the US since Liberation Day, and there's a lot
of really good stuff.

Speaker 5 (52:17):
But that's not what these ADP numbers. Obviously. The ADP
numbers are net so job losses. That's it.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Like when you're when the economy is losing x jobs
a month and you have right now tariffs. So basically
the big pictures you have the tariffs and the AI
revolution happening at the same time. And we will look
back on this period in ten years as I think
similar to what we will end up or what we

(52:46):
already end up looking back with like the Clinton and
Bush administration trade opening up NAFTA, WT like that. I
think we're actually going to start looking back at this
within ten years as a really similar time period. And
David Obie, a Democrat who represented this district in northern Wisconsin,

(53:06):
very rural district for a long time. He looked back
after NAFTA and said he regretted voting for it because
he was promised all of this job training and all
of these efforts to augment the job losses, and it
never happened, and it just never materialized and it never worked.

Speaker 5 (53:23):
And there's a clear lesson from that.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Which is when you have a revolution happening like artificial
intelligence that's already I mean, we're projected going into next
year to have the highest level of.

Speaker 5 (53:32):
College graduate unemployment.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
It is going to be a bloodbath, especially in entry
level jobs.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
What are all of those people going to do?

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Truly, I mean, fentanyl us I was just looking at
this last night, are still way higher than they were
a long time. No, I mean it's fentanyl, so it's
relatively like new phenomena, but they're still way higher than.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
They were in the early days of the opioid epidemic.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
So you have all of these things happening at the
same time, and the Trump administration was supposed to is
what Donald Trump must, of course was. People were I
think correctly skeptical of it, but what he promised was
something that appealed to the hopes of folks who are
looking at this and saying, this is a generational scrambling
of the world around me, after the generational scrambling that

(54:14):
you know, my parents went through and that my town
went through. So it's way bigger than I think people realize.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah, no, I absolutely think that's correct. And I think
people were willing to trade. Like it was not a
secret to anyone that he has these like authoritarian instincts,
but they were sort of willing to Okay, well, we'll
take some of that because it's an extraordinary time, and
you know, we trust that you're going to be able
to kind of strong man get things in order and
the trains.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
Will run on time.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
And instead you've just gotten the like performative cruelty and
then mass layoffs and then you know, to me, the
central theme, like the central thrust of this administration is
just giving everything over to the tech oligarchs and saying, okay,
off to.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
The races with AI.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
We're going to grease the skids for you, deregulate as
much much as possible so you can win this AI
race and hope and like we're going to hope and
pray that that just like magically fixes everything. And in
the process, they're promising to lay off literally everyone and
completely disrupt the entire I mean, to completely destroy the
existing social contract with little to no thought about what

(55:21):
may come after that.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Yeah, I mean we were talking before we went to air.

Speaker 5 (55:24):
This morning.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
I always checked the morning newsletters to see who sponsors them,
because I find it very amusing and depressing. And this morning,
the Free Press and Politico's Playbook were both sponsored by Meta,
and I went and clicked through the Meta ad to
see what Meta was bragging about, because in both ads
it was quote, Meta is investing sictionder billion dollars in
American infrastructure and jobs.

Speaker 5 (55:45):
So I went and clicked through.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
They had a list of all the places around the
country where they're doing this. Every single thing I clicked
on said data center, data center, data center, data center.
And that is so so harrowing. Yeah, because a lot
of these places is I mean, we have hollowed out
factor towns all over the all over the country and
places that are still struggling from NAFTA and China and

(56:08):
all of that, and you're just gonna put up data
centers that employ way fewer people and convince these communities
to give you big tax breaks, and then if the
bubble bursts, holy shit, I mean, think about that. If
an AI bubble bursts and all of these communities have
given tax breaks to these big companies around to Meta

(56:29):
to open AI all around the country, and they're already
not employing all of the people taking up all of
this land with data centers.

Speaker 5 (56:37):
Think about that. It's horrifying.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Yeah, and the bubble bursting might be the best possible
end of the horrible ends seed then it may be
even worse in terms of the impact on society it be.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah, I mean, I honestly twenty years UBI, that's like, it's.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Not lucky if they don't just decide we're all disposable
and good luck.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
And I was gonna say, not even like a not
even a humane.

Speaker 5 (57:01):
Effort at UBI.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
It's just going to be shut up and let us
bulldoze culture, tech everything.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah, what's the smallest amount we can get away with
giving you so that you don't like literally murder us
in our beds. That's what they're that's the point they're
going to.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
Be aiming for. There.

Speaker 5 (57:18):
They've seen the purge.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yes, let's go ahead and get to what is going
on with these Somalis in Minnesota. And I guess globally,
I don't know. I feel like this is a global effort.
So Trump, after calling Somali's garbage, his administration has surged
ICE agents into Minnesota, Minneapolis specifically. Tom Homan was questioned

(57:40):
on this new operation. Let's take a listen to that.

Speaker 14 (57:42):
That Somali community in Minnesota is about eighty thousand people.
The vast majority are US citizens or legal residents.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
So what is the reason for sending ICE there?

Speaker 13 (57:57):
Oh?

Speaker 12 (57:57):
Look, we also know there's a large illegal Somali community there.

Speaker 8 (58:01):
There's illegal alien community, a large illegal alien community there.

Speaker 7 (58:05):
You know, if you're a US citizen, you know you
have nothing to hear.

Speaker 14 (58:09):
The President said very clearly this week that he doesn't
want Somali immigrants in America.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
He called them garbage.

Speaker 14 (58:17):
Is that the real reason this operation is happening in
the Somali community?

Speaker 2 (58:24):
No, I think a President Trump's referring to public safety
threats is national security threat from Somalia and every other company.

Speaker 14 (58:30):
He didn't say that, he said from day one, he
talked about the whole community.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Well, look, I know that I'm not aware of the
President Trump was think when he said that, by I
agree with the President Trump.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
So Emily it's uh.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I think it's worth people thinking for a moment too
about why we do have such a significant Somali community,
and you know, they ended up in Minnesota in particular,
about why we had these successive waves of Somalis who
were brought in the vast majority of him By the way,
are US citizens shouldn't be subject to these deportation efforts
even though we know that I says, you know, discriminated

(59:06):
by color and by their ethnic background.

Speaker 5 (59:08):
To the test some numbers on that quickly.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
So, yeah, not a citizen as of twenty twenty three,
nine point five percent. Yeah, US born thirty eight point
eight percent, naturalized citizen forty five point four percent, So
it's about one in every ten is not a citizen.

Speaker 4 (59:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
So the biggest reason why we have a significant Sumali
population here is you had a civil war in Somalia's
brutal and you may ask yourself, did the US play
any role in that civil war? And the answer, of
course would be yes.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
And the question is of course rhetorical.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
I mean we you know, we use Somalia basically as
upon and a play thing. During the Cold War, flooded
the zone with all kinds of US weapons also forced
this like IMF World Bank adjustment like austerity onto them,
which stripped their own domestic capacity to feed themselves. And
you know, cause these austerity conditions, we were very important

(59:58):
in terms of creating the the conditions for the civil
war and the fallout and the chaos that made it
necessary for people to flee Somalia for other places. So
that is I think always important, especially as we're contemplating
this regime change effort in Venezuela. Like for the vast majority,
you and Soccer are pretty much on an island. Correct

(01:00:20):
me if I'm wrong, Emily in opposing the regime change
effort in Venezuela. A lot of the America. First, there's
even people who had a problem with war with the
run are like, eh, yeah, sure, Venezuela, Medora is a
bad guy. Let's go for why the hell got And
I don't want to hear a fucking word from these
people when there is a failed state and another refugee crisis,
like we are causing those problems. And so you know,

(01:00:42):
if you want to have fewer migrants and I think
we all should actually want people to have a place
where they can live and not have to flee war
and famine and devastation. Then maybe we should stop destroying
and using these countries as ponds and playthings and destroying
so many other places around the world.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
Just a thought.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
In any case, the Somali community has responded in I
think the most glorious way possible, Like the most.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
Glorious way possible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Mac was saying we need to make all of them
citizens just as a reward for their their meming efforts.
So in response to these brazen attacks from Trump calling
them garbage and now the ice incursion into Minneapolis and
all of this, they have been I guess, playing with
memes that take the language that Israeli's use to justify

(01:01:30):
their claim of the land of Israel and also claim
of Palestine, taking that language and appropriate it, appropriating it
themselves and saying, like many Minnesota was promised to us
three thousand years ago, and we're the real Founding Farmers
and all of this it's incredible, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Sort of like you just said, Founding Farmers did I
really amazing great restaurant.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
We love it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Founding Fathers, They would probably claim that, well, these members
are so good.

Speaker 5 (01:02:01):
Yeah, we created Founding Founding Farmers.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
They actually were involved in that creation.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
I think it's from the North Dakota Farmers Union, and
there are smallers in North Dakota.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
I'm pretty sure a college in North Dakota.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
So in any case, Founding Fathers, Founding Farmers, they're claiming
it all. Let's go ahead and take a look at
one of these memes. This is C three the way
that they are using this lexicon.

Speaker 6 (01:02:25):
Brothers, behold it a white land of the north, snow everywhere,
but look the skyline, just like on the old drawings.

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
Three centuries are elders, behold this.

Speaker 11 (01:02:36):
Is Minis Somalia, three centuries past.

Speaker 7 (01:02:39):
It was promised to us on these horses through the snow,
we have found our land at last.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
And Emily, I think, honestly, if you oppose this, I
think you are anti Samolytic.

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
It needs to be.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Called out for that. It might be anti Smalite of
the week. No start that account. Oh no, let's put
up some more of these C four. We've got a
whole bunch of these.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
I love them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Okay, So this one says, this is our proposal, and
it's got a map. It says the West Bank and
it's like California, Oregon and Washington and then the New
Jersey strain.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
We've got. Let's let's see the next one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
This is then they zoom in on the quote unquote
West Bank and it has just like in the West
Bank in uh in Palestine, all these different areas that
are like Benju stands and then under control of they say,
under Somali control, under Somalian Ana control, occupied by Somali
Defense Force. So we've got that one going on. Uh,

(01:03:33):
let's see the next one. Some food appropriation here they
say Somali food and it's tacos, egg fried rice, sushi
and pizza invented by the Somali three thousand years ago.
Play on how the Israelis like to clean lots of
Middle Eastern and Mediterranean cuisine. Here we have a series
of politicians kissing the Mall of America wall.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Does this has me alyssa slot get next to Mike
Hens and Mike Bompayo between two.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Miles or is creston mill I have no idea. For
some reason, Bill Barr is involved here. We've got yeah,
Mike Pence Mike Pump.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
It might be the Trump one cabinet. Yeah, that might
be supposed to cure.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Some throwbacks here, but I mean, the the legacy does
of our commitment to the mall of America goes back.
This one, Emily was a little uncomfortable with. But this
is you know there, this is a famous picture of
a guy who's from Brooklyn, right, who says, if I
don't steal, someone else will. And it's a Somali holding
up the Smalian flag. So we've got that one as well.

(01:04:29):
You know, some of them are a little a little problematic.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Oh some of them are very well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
I saw one Ai rendering of a Somalie Stonewall Jackson.

Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
And now we have a you know, this sort of
infamous like manifest Destiny picture that DHS account was tweeting
out recently, and instead of like a white angel floating
over it's a Somali woman who actually looks a lot
like ilan Omar who was floating over all of this
so playing with the themes of you know, the Israeli
talking points and colonialism in general. And the thing I've

(01:05:01):
appreciated is they just keep going, like they keep pushing
the Lord more layer.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Likes deeper and more.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
And really yeah, there's accounts now that are like, you know,
supposed to be like Apac Butmalia, and then there's the
accounts that are calling out that account and it's I'm
enjoying the whole thing. I honestly, genuinely like to make
a serious point about it. I think it is a
really brilliant way to respond to these attacks because listen,
I mean, I think what Trump said should be called.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
On as racist. It is racist.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
But also, you know, it's not exactly news that Trump
uses racism in effectuating his policy and specifically his immigration policy.
So if you're just saying again this is racist, it's
going to not land as much, I think as since
we are all aware of that at this point. As like,

(01:05:52):
the trolling here, I think is just another another level
and a great response.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
Well, I mean yeah, and I'm saying this to somebody
who like thinks we have wildly underplayed the problems of integration.
I mean, smund is a completely different culture than the
United States.

Speaker 5 (01:06:07):
In Minneapolis.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
This is a country that has a ninety according to UNISTAFF,
a ninety nine point nine percent rate of or ninety
nine percent rate of female general mutilation. So bringing a
culture up into northern Minnesota where you have such vast golf,
I mean, I think it has genuinely been a very
tough assimilation progress. I know, people in Minnesota feels like
they've been screaming into the void about.

Speaker 5 (01:06:27):
This for at least a decade.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
That said, uh, this trolling shows assimilation to American meme
culture in spades, because absolutely it is. I mean, there's
nothing more appealing than self deprecating humor. First of all,
like across the board, anyone who can be like.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
Self deprecating, you realize that there's something kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
Funny about the idea of while he's walking across what
did they call it, the Great North, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
Across the wo there is such a potent weapon.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
And then the other hilarious thing is like the people
online who are taking this seriously.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
Like this is out region.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
They think this was promising them three thousand years ago,
and meanwhile they're posting about like Osamli's acues are low,
and it's like, bro, So that's how.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
It started with this, And yeah, if people weren't following
this closely, that's basically how it started. As somebody I
don't know who the first person was, but somebody put
out a video of somebody like dead serious, deadpan making
this claim to camera, trolling Israel, saying we were promised
this land and a couple of people fell for it,

(01:07:27):
and we're like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
Oh boy, have I got something even dumber for you.
It's rough.

Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
Look in the mirror, my friends.

Speaker 5 (01:07:37):
Yikes.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Yeah, no, I mean it's it's a great it's been wonderful.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
It's been a sight to behold.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
I mean, humor is a weapon, and this is part
of Trump, like why he could play with so much
just because he's money, and that is an unfortunate reality.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
Of who he is. It brings people's brains, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
And so yeah, if you're trying to otherise a people,
which is what they're trying to do, say they don't belong,
they don't fit in, they're garbage, they all need to
go blah blah blah. And your response is this incredibly relatable,
nuanced humor, which is sort of irresistible, Like you're instantly
you're instantly humanizing yourself, number one, instantly demonstrating to your

(01:08:13):
point a high level of cultural competency and it's disarming.

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
It's just fundamentally disarming.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Yeah, and they're playing on what's funny is that, like
obviously these are different cultures with different histories, and that's
like it's great self deprecating humor, and it's like aware
of the it's not running from the I don't know,
the controversy.

Speaker 5 (01:08:36):
It's kind of leaning into it to your point about Trumpian.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Tactics, right, So it's it's very very clever and very
very funny.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Yeah, absolutely,

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