Ryan and Emily discuss Mehdi Hasan releases censored BBC documentary, Abrego Garcia tortured in CECOT, Zohran fires back at Trump, Megyn Kelly rips Diddy verdict.
Mehdi Doc: https://zeteo.com/p/watch-now-gaza-doctors-under-attack
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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For the past many months, the BBC has been broiled
in a controversy in which it has been refusing to
air a documentary that kind of took on a life
of its own inside the organization, as the journalists there
have been demanding to know what happened to an investigation
that the BBC had commissioned into Israel's war on the
(00:55):
on medical professionals in the entire kind of medical community
inside of Gaza. That contrivers now resulted in the documentary
being acquired by Mehdi Hassen and Zeteo News for its
worldwide distribution and by Channel four inside the UK for
its UK distribution. So many's joining us now to talk
(01:17):
about this documentary and also the process that led up
to it being centered and now being finally released last night.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Maddie, thanks so much for joining us, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And I wanted to start by honoring several of the
medical professionals who have been killed in this genocide. If
we could put up I believe it is C three
drop site posted this yesterday. This is a picture from
a graduation ceremony at the Faculty of Medicine in Gaza.
(01:53):
Four of the people that you're looking at in this
photo doctor Omar Farwana, who was the dean of the
Faculty of Medicine, doctor Adnan al Bersh who was head
of orthopedic surgery at Al Shifa Medical Complex, got A
Rafat Lubad who was the head of internal medicine at
Al Shifa. And also then this week was the killing
(02:14):
of doctor Marwan al Sultan, who was the director of
the Indonesian Hospital and a cardiologist. So in that photo,
four of four of them have been assassinated, several targeted
at their homes, not collateral damage from attacks on you know,
(02:34):
fighters are caught in crossfire. But medi I want you
to talk about the targeting of medical professionals because that
is what I think people don't understand because it sounds
so insane to say it out loud, that.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
It sounds insane to say it out loud.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
It's I mean two things, three things I think sound
insane over the last twenty one months, twenty two months
that we've normalized. One obviously the deliberate killing of journalists,
which a lot of journalists in the.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
West have a lot of problem comprehending.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
The other is the deliberate killing of children, of course
gunshot wounds to the head, sniper shots, not collateral damage.
And of course the third is the doctors, the killing
of doctors, nurses, paramedics, the deliberate targeting.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
And destruction of Garza's healthcare.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
That is what the premise that was the basis of
this film is. And this film, produced by award winning
filmmakers at Basement Films in the UK, made over several months,
went through rigorous checks, went through the BBC editorial process
for much of it.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Ride of reply.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
Fantastic lead report remain a Navai award winning war correspondent
and they put together this film, this hour long film
based on eyewitness testimony from Palestinian doctors and survivors, as
well as doctor Adnan old Brush, who you just mentioned.
He's in this film, but he's since been killed in
Israeli captivity, tortured and died in prison, killed in prison
(03:58):
as one of his colleagues. So you've got eyewitness testimony
from Palestinian doctors to what they have had to endure.
We also have an Israeli medic whistleblower in the film
who served at State Taman, the Israeli Gulag, the prison,
the black site where they've taken Palestinian detainees to be tortured, raped, killed.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
So it's all there put together in the film.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
And you mentioned, you know, the targeting of doctors saying
it out loud perhaps the most powerful moment for me
in the film, and we just I would urge breaking
points views to go to the Zeteo Twitter feed or
Zeteo Bluska.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
We actually put up a clip from the.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Film last night, separate to the trailer, which is one
of the most powerful moments in the film from doctor
Khalid Hamouda who was a surgeon, who is a surgeon
in guards are now in Egypt, who was bombed in
his home with his family, a family of to other doctors.
At first ten people killed. They then flee him his
wife as child, and they go down the street by
the way. His house is blown up, not the entire street,
(04:54):
just his house. They then go down the street to
take refuge and a drone follows them down the street
and attacks them again. And he wakes up in a
hospital and sees a nurse carrying his child, his daughter,
who's dead.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
The next morning, his wife, the mother of his child,
is also dead.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
He's told Keled he's the only survivor or one of
the only survivors I believe, from that masacret And she says,
remin and Viler, what you were talking? He says, yes,
drone came and targeted us. And this is what we
heard from the world Central Kitchen folks when they were
in the humanitarian convoy and they were.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Targeted car to car to car.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
This is what we've heard from journalists, of course, and
this is what we have to get our heads around.
The United States of America has been arming and funding
a country that is systematically. This is a key word here,
destroying the Gaza healthcare system, destroying doctors and medics. And
the key point here, and it comes out in the film.
You can rebuild hospitals in years to come. Trump can
(05:49):
turn Gaza into the Riviera of the Middle East and
build as many hospitals as you like. You cannot rebuild
that knowledge base, you cannot rebuild that human base.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
You cannot just.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Get doctors back of Ghazan society palaces for years educating
itself in this way, and these Raelis have deliberately targeted it.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
Well, let's take a look at the trailer.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
This is one to get a sample of what people
can expect from the film.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Rome.
Speaker 9 (06:17):
Israel has been killing the very people trying to keep
the healthcare system alive, its doctors and medics, despite hospitals
and healthcare workers being protected under international law. As Israel
has bonded Gaza, hundreds of Palestinian doctors and medics have
refused to leave their hospital.
Speaker 10 (06:40):
We are in the theater and operating room, full of darkness,
no water, no electricity, but we have a hero surgeons
in Gaza.
Speaker 9 (06:53):
Hundreds of medics have been killed, hundreds have been detained.
Many of them have been forcibly disappeared. Our Palestinian team
on the ground have gathered testimony from health workers and
their families.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Wings of them, and Israeli.
Speaker 9 (07:16):
Whistleblowers have told us they witnessed Palestinian prisoners being tortured
and that some Israeli medics are complicit.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
I don't even think that in the Israeli society there
is a need for cover up. These days, you can
do almost whatever you want when it comes to gardens.
Speaker 8 (07:38):
One of the things people conceive METI is that this
is a high production value film. In the BBC funded
this film. The BBC then refused to err it and
was giving quote unquote bullshit reasons. According to a source
who told that to the Independent and medi you have
probably a lot of insight into this process of why
the BBC, which had recently aired row documentary, I believe
(08:01):
that was on BBC.
Speaker 7 (08:03):
What happened?
Speaker 8 (08:03):
What's your understanding of why they ended up getting rid
of a film that they funded?
Speaker 6 (08:09):
So the BBC put out a very long statement, a
bullshit statement, I would argue as well. Their argument was
that they had this other documentary that they aired on GAZA,
which became super controversial, I would argue for unnecessary reasons.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
It was narrated by a child in Gaza surviving the war.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
And it turns out the child was the son of
a deputy agriculture minister in the Gaza government, some technocrat
who was then labeled, of course as just Hamas.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
And there was a huge furory in the UK that.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
The BBC had put out a film from the child
of a Hamas minister, even though again it was a
well sourced, well made, high production valuy film.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
The child had not decided the editorial agenda.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
But while they were quote unquote investigating how that happened,
they decided to park this film, which, as you say,
they'd spent a lot of money on, spent many months
making with Basement Films, who we are Detayo know well
because they made a film for his last year called
Israel's Real Extremism, which came on the show talking about
memory sells me correctly then and the fundamental argument for
the BBC was, well, Basement Films went out and talked
(09:08):
about the process while we were still trying to get
everything approved. They then put out Basement were frustrated. Of course,
my friend Benda Peir, who's the executive producer, formerhead of Channel.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Four News, very respected award winning journalists.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
He went out at the Sheffield Documentary Festival and said,
come on, this is ridiculous. We've got doctors in the
film waiting for this film to come out. We're showing
disrespect to people who risked their lives to talk to us. Sources, whistleblowers,
you know, survivors are massacres. The BBC put out statements
saying well, if we put it out now, there will
be the perception of partiality, and the BBC can't have
(09:39):
the perception of partiality. The great irony being, of course,
that their decision not to air this film that they
commissioned that ran through their checks. That is the greatest
perception of partiality. It's partiality towards Israel. They have now
run one Gaza doc and then pulled it nowhere to
be seen because apparently it was the child of a
Hamas minister bullshit argument. And now they didn't even the
(10:00):
other Gaza documentary. And then add that to all of
the rest of the coverage of the BBC's of Gaza
over the last twenty one to twenty two months, which
has been abysmal, which has been which has caused multiple
internal you know, backlashes, protests from BBC staff who are
frustrated at what their broadcaster has done. This is a
BBC that has been cowed, intimidated, pressured, bullied.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
This is a BBC. I used to work at the BBC.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
I used to defend the BBC when I worked in
the UK from right wing bullshit attacks. But I think
I've never seen in my entire lifetime. I'm im about
to turn forty six years old, in my entire lifetime,
I'm watching the BBC.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
I've been watching the BBC since.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Children's Cartoons on a Saturday morning, and I can honestly
say it's never taken a beating like this. I've never
had such a depressing, disappointing view of the national broadcast
in the UK that I've had since October twenty twenty three.
I know many other people who stopped watching the BBC,
stopped appearing on the BBC because their coverage has been
so shameful, not just in the documentary space, but in
the new space, the online space, the ridiculous headlines. There
(10:59):
was a study by the SENSE for Media Monitoring recently
which said they give thirty three times as much coverage
per Israeli casualty as they do per Palestinian casualty.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
So there's not a perception of partiality.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
There's a well documented evidence of partiality towards Israel.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And I want to linger on that point and connect.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It to the point that you made about the original
controversy that then put this documentary on ice.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Trying to imagine a world in which a.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Documentary was made about the difficulties faced by Israeli children
in the war, which are non trivial, often headed to
bomb shelters, which is absolutely even if nothing happens, it's
traumatizing for a child to have to hide, to hide
somewhere with their family in the dark, worried that they
(11:51):
might get hit by a bomb.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Like that alone is traumatizing.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So let's say that the BBC commission a documentary focused
on the way that the war was affecting children, and
then it turned out that the boy's father worked for
the Ministry of Agriculture in Israel, and they pulled the
documentary and apologized and and.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Investigated how that could happen?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
How could you possibly have aired the thoughts of a
child whose father works for the Ministry of Agriculture in Israel.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That to me kind of tells you everything you need.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
To know about the way that the BBC approached it.
So how difficult was it to kind of pry this
out of the BBC or were they like, thank you, Metti,
We're so glad to be done with this controversy.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
So the heavy lifting was done by Ben de Paratt
Basement Films, who spent who made this film, sweat and
blood in this film, spent a long time.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
In back and forth with the BBC. And you know,
he runs an independent production company.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
It's very risky for him to pick a fight with
one of the biggest broadcasters in the world, which commissions
his staff. So props to my friend Ben really for
believing in this film and saying, look, I want it
out there. Doesn't matter if I screw up my relationship
with people, doesn't matter if I lose money on this.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
I want it out there.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
And the BBC did sit on it for a while
and weren't going to release it as far as I'm aware,
and eventually they did release it, partly because of Ben's cajoling,
partly because I think they just wanted to be done
with it, and then US and Channel four were able
to come in and say, well, we're going to give
it a platform. I knew from the moment they benched it,
if this film becomes available, I was messaging men, say
we want a platform. This is what Zato was created for,
(13:32):
right to give these voices to the world, to try
and platform these voices.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
We know, Ryan, you and I that the right have
been arguing.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
About cancel culture for decades and yet the single biggest
victims of cancel culture are Palestinians and supporters of the
Palestinian movement and journalism about Palestine and academia about Palestine,
and that has been a fundamental issue. We've seen that
in this conflict, and I think that was a frustrating
issue where the BBC we're not airing it and we're
not releasing it, and the moment they released it, we
(14:01):
move fast. And props to Channel four broadcaster in the
UK for running it, because again, Ryan, you say hamas
and everything shuts down, All critical faculties shut down, even
amongst smart liberal, progressive folks. And if you're able to
say anything's hamasked, and that's what you're able to throw
at it, and I'm sure people will throw that at
this film as well. One thing I took great pride
in doing was take you know, the BBC put out
(14:22):
statements saying this is not our film anymore. That's true,
it's not their film anymore. We made some We made
a few changes. One of the changes we made is
we took out all references to the Hamas run health ministry.
We call it the Garza Ministry of Health of this film.
That in itself is a propagandistic and loaded phrase, as
you well know, because it allows people to then cast
doubt on the deaths and torture pass it. And we
have eyewitness accounts of this film fro people who are
(14:43):
nothing knew Hamas about that suffering. Just one quick story
that your viewers might be interested in that I heard
recently from someone else. You talk about the kind of
imagine if this was the other way around. A production company,
I'm told went to a major American broadcaster at the
start of this conflict, at the start of the genocide
and had a story worry about a Palestinian family just
to kind of followed the moon around and the suffering
(15:04):
they were going through and the number of members of
the family had been killed, and the American broadcaster said,
we'll run it, but first go and find First, let
us go and find an Israeli family so we can
balance it and we'll run both stories. A few weeks later,
they came back to the production company and said, well,
we can't find the Israeli family that suffered like the
Palestinian Family show does.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Therefore we're not running your story. Not we'll just run yours,
but we won't run.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Anything now because we can't do this fake bullshit balance.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Right, And it would would have looked worse if you
try to do the balance, because you'd see.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
They just dropped the whole thing. Right, This is what
happens if Palestinian voice is are silence.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
The other interesting thing about the BBC's position here is
they're not disputing any facts in the film or any
of the journalism, right many they aren't. They aren't disputing
the quality of the journalism. They're not even saying that
it didn't meet their editorial standards, which is a pretty
usual excuse.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Yep, not at all. And I think they're hiding behind
this bullshit phrase perception of partiality.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
So it's only and By the way, Emily, they're not
even saying it's a biased film. They're saying if we
run it now, people will say that we are biased
to one side, and we are scared of people people
being the pros ra A lobby, and therefore we are
not going to put it out. I mean, look, the
people who made this film of one Oscars and Emmy's
the reporter Ramita Nevai is of Iranian descent, has done
(16:28):
films all about Iran's human rights abuses.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
She's traveled around the world. The credibility of these people
cannot be questioned. I'm sure it will be questioned by
bad faith actors.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
And yet this is where we've reached now, in the
name of protecting Israel, wittingly or unwittingly, we've burned down
international law, and we've burned down journalistic credibility.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
We've burned down so.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
Many institutions which will not survive the last twenty two months.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
So, Mady, where can people go to find this?
Speaker 6 (16:54):
So they can go to find this at gazadoctors dot
film that's the website we set up for this film specifically,
or zateo dot com. It is available to paid subscribers
for now. People will say, well, why not put it
out for free to the world. Well, because the people
behind this film spent a lot of time and money
making this film, and I just want to remind people
that a free press isn't free. High quality journalism requires investment.
(17:16):
If you really want documentaries that are going to win
awards and report on the ground and break stories, then
we really have to support it financially. I'm proud that
Zeteo is financially supporting this film.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
It costs a lot of money around Emily.
Speaker 6 (17:28):
As you know, documentaries cost a lot, and therefore we
are airing it to our paid subscribers. I urge people
to become a paid subscriber. If you become a monthly
subscriber's less than the cost of going to the movie
theater to watch a film. And this film is more
important than any other film you're going to see this year,
including the f one movie, which I loved, But this
movie is more important.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
It is true.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Journalism is expensive, and documentaries are particularly so.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
The travel, the.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Sophistication that goes into the legally, the leegaling, oh my god,
don't get me started on the legaling. Well, Mettie, thank
you so much for joining us and congrats on this acquisition.
I'm glad that it's it's getting out there. Finally, a
new legal filing from attorneys for Kilmar Abrego Garcia alleges
(18:15):
that he was tortured while in Seacott custody in El Salvador.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
We can put up this first element up on the screen.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Abreo Garcia was it has it has become the detainee
who has captured the most attention.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
And it could have gone a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It could have been the makeup artist who is still
facing these brutal conditions in El Salvadora. Could have been
the soccer the venezuela and soccer player who had absolutely
no connection to Toneo Ragua and yet remains down there.
Abrego Garcia has become the one that Democrats kind of
focus their attention on. He would He was returned from
(18:58):
Al Salvador, surprise by the administration to face face charges
for human trafficking in Nashville in the in the Nashville area,
charges which are now face kind of crumbling under scrutiny.
This this new allegation service as a part of these
(19:19):
ongoing proceedings, and we're still joined by a Sto's Mandy
Hassen to talk through some of this. Many thank you
for sticking around. We appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
It's a terrific story.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Run it really is they talk about and you know
what you know they they he says that you know,
he walked into Seacott and one of the guards said
to him and was saying to everybody who was coming in,
welcome to Seacott.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Those who enter, uh never leave and a break up.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Garcia is one of the only cases that I think
we even know of, whether in El Salvador or anywhere else,
of somebody leaving leaving Seacott alive soon after getting there.
It seems like they had them all kneel for twenty
four hours, which.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Maddy and I are old men at this point.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
If we kneel for two minutes, were we are, we're
struggling hard and then they were beaten. If they if
they collapsed, and the filing says that he soiled himself,
you know, while they were being forced to kneel kind
of overnight among a bunch of the other abuses. Do
you think that this is the reason why the Trump
(20:33):
administration was initially so reluctant to and is still reluctant
to return anybody from the detention center because they can
then talk about what happened down there.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
I think he's part of the reason. I don't think
it's the whole reason.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
I think even if they weren't being tortured there, it's
a point of principle right for the bullies not to
give in, and they don't want to say that. All
the liberal media and the Democrats made and the human
rights science has.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Made us bring people back.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
You remember that the ridiculous playing Homeland Security Secretary Christi
nom went in front of Congress and said, I guarantee
you he's never coming back. Well, he did come back,
but for this bullshit Tennessee indictment for human trafficking, human smuggling.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Yeah. I think it's part of the reason. It's not
the only reason.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
And Human Rights to Watch have documented that this is
a prison where people never leave from and yes, they
are just literally disappeared inside of there. It's a horrific
gulag in El Salvador, created by a kind of autocrat
President Buckley Trump's ally.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
People are treated horrifically.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
He was threatened with being put into cells with gang
members where he would be killed. He was told by
the guards. He had his head shaved forcibly with a
zero razor. He was beaten with wooden batons, he was
punched in the head. He was, as you say, forced
to kneel all night long, kicked and beaten if they
weren't able to kneel all night long, soiled himself, deprived
(21:50):
of food, malnutrition, lost.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Dozens of pounds.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
You'll remember that photo that the Trump administration released with
him and Chris van Holland having Margarita's which, as the
said from Mariland pointed that they didn't order it was
placed in the picture by the El Salvadorans to.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Make it look like they were having this great time.
He was not having a great time.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
And we can only dread to imagine what is happening
to some of the other innocent people who have been
sent there. The gay barber who was sent there, the
guy with the autism tattoos who was looking after his brother.
So many cases. There was a case just this week
I read of where the Trump administration have admitted for
once that they sent someone who shouldn't have been sent
out over but they can't find him anymore. I tweeted
(22:29):
this yesterday and I stand by this. You said you
and I are old men because we can't neel. We're
also old men who remember two thousand and one, two
thousand and two, two thousand and three. I think this
is as big a scandal, if not bigger scandal than
Abu Grebe and Guantanamo Bay. This is happening in plain sight.
At least we could argue in two thousand and one,
two three. We didn't know till much later. We didn't
(22:49):
know till Senator Diane Feinstein's report. We didn't know till
Seymour Hershe's reporting in the New Yorker. This is happening
in plain sight. We have known since day one. We
didn't even need kill Albrego Garcia's report. We saw the
video that the Trump administration put out. Remember they put
out a video to music showing off their torture and
beating enforcible shavings of innocent men sent to SEACOD. Now
(23:11):
we have this forty page amendment with the details in it.
I think history will judge what those of us who
know about it and saw did in this moment.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
This is a scandal.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
The Democrats in Congress should be screaming about from the rooftops,
which every Democrat who wants to be president in twenty
twenty eight should be talking about. The Trump administration took
a bunch of people in the United States, including possibly
legal residents. We don't know because they haven't told us
who went and sent them to a foreign gulag to
be tortured, and refused to bring them back, including when
the court said.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Send them back. That is a crime.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
That is a scandal, and I think Americans need to
stop thinking it can't happen here.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
We're not like those other countries.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
The descriptions in this report, in this amendment are the
kind of descriptions you would read about from a North
Korean prison, an Iranian prison, a Russian prison.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Let's stop pretending we don't do what everyone else does.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
Well, So this is something that Ryan and I actually
debated a little bit yesterday, and we can put D two.
This is a vo of Alligator Alcatraz flooding on the screen.
Speaker 7 (24:06):
So this.
Speaker 8 (24:09):
Engineering marvel that was constructed very quickly in the middle
of the Everglades is already flooding. Probably knows prize to
anybody who would conceive of what it might look like
after you throw up a massive three thousand bud facility
in the Everglades in like a week's time. And Ryan
raised the point that hurricane season could be especially devastating
to people who are kept there in the future. So
(24:33):
three thousand beds, they want to increase that to five
thousand beds, and they just got an infusion of funding
for immigration enforcement. But Maddie, I think the public hates
the Seacott stuff. I think most of the public hates
the Seacott stuff because it feels profoundly un American. I
think it's a blind spot for the Trump administration that
gets very online and you know, sort of falls for
(24:56):
the appeal of the memes on these types of things.
I think the Trump administration has sort of understood that,
which is why they didn't send another group of people
to Seacott, at least not yet on the political front. So,
I guess I'm curious what you make of Alligator Alcatraz,
which you mentioned christinoam like cosplaying. Honestly, I feel like it.
(25:20):
I think we need to take it seriously. I do
feel like the Trump administration likes to larp as Bucelli.
I don't think it's popular, but I don't foresee Alligator
Alcatraz looking like Seacott. That does mean I don't think
we should take the threat of that seriously. But I'm
curious what you expect to see from the facility in
the next several months as they start filling it.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
The just on the lopping point, I should also point
out that when the history books are written about this
period and about the torture Now Salvador, you will have
a series of Republican members of Congress who went to
El Salvador, stood outside prison cell, said what a.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Great place this is. Christineom Christina led the charts.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
She stood in front of a cell full of dozens
and dozens of men would shaved heads, lined up for
a photo op, many of those men who have been tortured,
as we now know. And this is what the American
guvernment was part of, which is what I'm saying. It's
worse in many ways than Abu Gray because the Bush administration,
Cheney and Ashcroft, didn't go and do.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Photo ops at Abu Gray.
Speaker 7 (26:11):
They tried to keep it.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
They tried to keep it hidden.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
And this administration, as usual, the cruelty is the point
to borrow Adam Seller's line. So yes, and I think, look,
whether you call it alligator, alcarez, whatever stupid name these
people give to their concentration cabs. Even already, ice detention
facilities were overcrowded. We were hearing reports about abuse. We're
hearing stories about people not eating for days, not having beds,
sleeping on the floor, no blankets, all sorts of abuse.
(26:37):
Nine to one one calls from ice detention centers with
people collapsing that we had a death I believe of
a Cuban American man this week or a Cuban man
this week. I don't know what a stayed as well.
I can't remember who knows what this administration, what the
states of any.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Many Just to underline that, because I was just in
Miami and they were talking about this down there a lot.
He was a seventy five year old man who had
been in the United States since nineteen sixty five, since
the age of fifteen, So he fled what they will
call in Miami the Castro dictatorship, which I mean kind
(27:09):
of was dictator.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
Yeah, we're glad to have you guys on the record.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Here we go that.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
He so he'd been here for sixty years now, a
lot of people in Miami because it's its cultural nature.
Like maybe he never became a citizen. I don't know,
Like it's quite possibly he didn't. He easily could have.
If you've been here since nineteen sixty five as a Cuban,
you could have become a citizen.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
But just in Miami, like a lot of people didn't.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
He died in ICED attention, and Tom Homan responded, well,
you know, bad things.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
In every prison.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
People don't in every prison.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
But we're saving so many lives with ICE anyway, So
I just wanted to ice prisons.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
ICE prisons in particular are overcrowded. We know now we
have this new budget. We have this budget bill that's
gone through, giving them more money than most than a
lot of foreign militaries.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
There's a lot of people appointed to that.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
I believe they're going to be I believe they're gonna
have half the levels of personalnel as the United States
Marine Corps when all this sudden and done, if this
bill goes through. So they're getting lots of money for
fancy new centers and troops. But what I would say
is even already the overcrowding is insane. The conditions are horrific.
You mentioned the elderly Cuban man. There was an Iranian
woman who's been here fifty years. She came in nineteen
(28:19):
seventy nine her family and came to visit the United States,
and the revolution happened and they stayed and she never
got citizenship and they are now deputshake. I think they
got her in her front yard while she was gardening,
this dangerous threat, this elderly Iranian woman. So these are
kind of ridiculous stories coming out from the ICE detentions.
But the conditions, to go back to Emily's question, are horrific.
I don't think even if they get thirty seven billion
dollars from this bill, that they're somehow going to build
(28:41):
nicer facilities.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
It's not about lack of resources.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
The reason people are being abused in detention is not
because they lack resources. That's part of it, but it's
also because the cruelty is the point. They don't see
these people as fully human beings. They don't see these
people as deserving of right. You've heard United States senators
have gone on live television and said, no, foreigners don't
get you process. Foreigns aren't covered by the Constitution. This
is the kind of ridiculous shit that is said by
(29:05):
people with law degrees serving in the United States Senate,
which is obviously nonsense. Everyone gets due process. So that
is the fundamental problem. It's not about resources, it's not
about where you locate your concentration camp. It's about the
fundamental mindset of Tom Homan and Stephen Miller and Donald Trump,
which is that these people are not fully human.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
These people are not people deserving of rights.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
These people need to be punished to send a message,
and these people need to.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Be out of here. And I think that is the
key point that Ryan mentioned. Miami.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
A bunch of Republicans in Florida members of the House
are saying, well, come on, can you tone it down
a bit because they're feeling some backlash from their constituents
who are like, you know, the leoparded, what's the face
the face eating leopard party meme?
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Like, I didn't know they'd come for my.
Speaker 8 (29:43):
Friends, Manny, I know you have to run. So thank
you so much for sticking around for a second segment.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Thank you guys, of course, Zoron Mom Donnie held a
press conference to respond to President Trump's threat that he
was going to do also of things to him, including
round him up, to port him jailum, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Here's Mom, Donnie.
Speaker 11 (30:06):
Yesterday, Donald Trump said that I should be arrested. He
said that I should be deported. He said that I
should be denaturalized. And he said those things about me,
someone who stands to be the first immigrant mayor of
this city in generation, someone who would also be the
(30:28):
first Muslim in the first South Asian mayor in this
city's history, less so because of who I am, because
of where I come from, because of how I look
or how I speak, and more so because he wants
to distract from what I fight for. I fight for
working people. I fight for the very people that have
been priced out of this city. And I fight for
the same people that he said he was fighting for.
(30:50):
This is the same president who ran on a campaign
of cheaper groceries, who ran on a campaign about easing
a suffocating cost of living crisis, And ultimately, it is
easier for him to fan the flames of division than
to acknowledge the ways in which he has betrayed those
working class Americans, not just in the city, but across
this country and the ways in which he continues to
betray them, because we know that he would rather speak
(31:11):
about me than speak about the legislation that he is
shepherding through Washington, DC, legislation that will quite literally take
healthcare away from Americans, legislation that will steal food from
the Hungary, legislation that looks to build upon one of
the largest transfers of wealth we've seen in recent history
in his first administration, and do it once again for
(31:31):
the very Americans who already have enough.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
We should be.
Speaker 11 (31:35):
Fighting for those that do not have what they need
to live a dignified life. That is what I will do,
and I am thankful to have the protection and to
have the support of so many New Yorkers who have
stood up and set how unacceptable this is, including our governor,
including members of the labor movement. And ultimately, what I
fear for is that if this is what Donald Trump
(31:57):
and his administration feel comfortable about saying about the Democratic
nominee for the mayor of New York City, imagine what
they feel comfortable saying and doing about immigrants whose names
they don't even know.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
So also yesterday, and we can put up this element
here President Trump's Homeland Security Advisory Council, which is a
group that includes such luminaries as Bo Didel who is
the founder of Bikers for Trump, and Rudy Giuliani, who
is a believer or not the former mayor of New
York once in his life, as well as some other
(32:28):
folks they met, and they quickly decided that the main
thing the Homeland Security Advisory Council needed to focus its
meeting on was what they're going to do about zoron
Mam Donnie and talking about the Homeland Security Department having
authorities that haven't been used in the past that maybe.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Need to look into that.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So before we get into the actual threats on Mom Donnie,
Emily and I wanted to talk about his response to it,
because I think we both think that this is an
expression of a populist democratic party that could exist that
does not exist, but these are the kind of green
shoots of it popping up, and that if it did exist,
it would represent a genuinely interesting development on the scene
(33:10):
and would be kind of a party that was actually
worth working people respecting and voting for, which is stunning
because it's happening at a time when the Democratic Party
could not be at its lowest.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
We saw when we were here yesterday. We saw a
preview of mom Donnie's strategy towards this when he just
first put out his statement after Trump made his comments
and pivoted, and we talked about that yesterday, how he
pivoted to basically class warfare. Did the same thing right here.
He pivoted not to I shouldn't say class warfare, because
(33:45):
I think that diminishes it. He pivoted to affordability. And
it's like, this is what you do if you realize
your average voter isn't Liz Cheney. This is how you
run a campaign where you're going after Trump, but you're
not fully taking Trump's bait. And I think it it's
genuinely a pretty interesting development for Democrats that they now
have a kind of textbook example of how.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
To do the thing right.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
It's not backing down on the initial charge. It's not
apologizing for any of the culture war stuff Trump is
doing here. It's pushing back on that, but then it's
moving and saying the reason you're doing this is because
you're a billionaire that doesn't care about people and you
just want to distract from the fact that you're stealing
everybody's medicaid and that you promise to run on making
(34:28):
groceres cheaper and you're not doing it. It's really interesting
because the twenty seventeen, you know, the first term version
of Democrats against Trump, would have just fully seized on
the culture war aspect of it and said Donald Trump
is a bigot, he's a xenophobe, we are a nation
(34:49):
of immigrants, and he doesn't back away from all of that. Rhetorically,
he believes all of those things, but that's not really
where he puts his energy.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
But don't your response and what you're saying is that
twenty seven because I think this is so true and
easily Yeah, I feel like that's really what everyone would
have done. Like the conventional wisdom is that maybe you
throw in a couple of lines about grocery prices and
medicaid and snap, but actually you spend the bulk of
your response talking about how you are going to be
(35:17):
the first missile mayor of New York City and how
that's what scares Donald Trump. He's scared of brown people,
he's scared of change. I think that's totally true if
we put that in the time machine. If we put
mont Donnie in a time machine and say he was
running in twenty seventeen, maybe he would have been sparner
about it.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
But the strategists on the.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Left would not have.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, they would not have.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And I think it's probably it's tied up in the
intrademocratic fight that happened at the time where Bernie Sanders had,
you know, just come off this very bitter primary, where
a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters were still even blaming
Bernie Sanders for the fact that Trump was in at all.
And anybody who said that Donald Trump supporters had quote
(36:04):
unquote economic anxiety, yes, was that was said to be
code for the real reason that they've supported Trump, which
is their their racism and their homophobia and their bigotry
and on and on and so, because that was the case,
if Democrats shied away from talking about economic anxiety because
(36:24):
they were afraid that they would then like, oh, look
at you, you racist much Mamdani instead takes Trump at
his word and says, if you notice in that clip
he says Trump ran on these things, people voted for him.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
The point he's making is people voted.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
For Trump because he promised he was going to lower
grocery prices. He was going to make the city more
affordable and fill their lives with some dignity, make their
lives better.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
That's what Trump said he was going to do.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
And he's talking to Trump supporters and saying he's not
doing that.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
What is he doing?
Speaker 3 (36:58):
He's getting you all riled up about me when all
I'm trying to do is lower grocery prices.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
I revisited this last week when we talked to Zoron
in what.
Speaker 7 (37:12):
Was that December?
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 7 (37:15):
Yeah, it was November December.
Speaker 8 (37:16):
Actually, you know what, I think it was November because
he was going to say told.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
He was interviewing the Trump people.
Speaker 7 (37:22):
Yeah, yeah, he did. He sort of followed Alexander A.
Speaker 8 (37:25):
Kazo Cortez's lead and went out into I think he
told this to the Bronx and he was in Queen's
he was interviewing people, talking to them, trying to pitch
himself to Trump voters, and he said the number one
thing they were concerned about was the price of groceries.
They feel like they have less in their bank accounts than.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
They used to.
Speaker 8 (37:43):
And that's again, it's so obvious. But twenty seventeen you
just couldn't make that argument period, which.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Is weird because of course you could, but like you could,
just the structures of the Democratic Party at the time
were just not allowing the party there was on And
also they were so thoroughly rewarded by the media for
leaning into the culture war.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Yes, yes, and rewarded.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
By a significant chunk of their voters. Doesn't mean those
voters wouldn't also have been with them on other stuff. Now,
inflation was not what it was in twenty seventeen, like
we had you know, one percent inflation since basically the
financial crisis, so you know, the context is actually different now.
(38:31):
The economy is stunk, and that's why Trump won, I
think in twenty sixteen. But it wasn't exactly prices. It
was wages and joblessness which was slowly getting you know,
had gradually come back from the financial crisis, but not
but took so long, and people were mined in debt
and student teds.
Speaker 8 (38:47):
So opioid crisis had plenty of local economy is.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Going on, So I think Democratic base would have been
there for it. But Democrats didn't need to go there
because they would get they would get donations, they get crowds,
and they would get fawning me media coverage for pointing
out what a big at Trump was, and so they
didn't need to go and be like, look, he actually
said he was going to run on all these things
to make your life better, and he's not doing that.
(39:12):
They didn't didn't want to take it seriously. They didn't
want to take seriously the idea that he actually.
Speaker 8 (39:16):
Ran on that stuff because they thought that the silver
bullet was their own cultural arguments against Trump, and it wasn't.
That wasn't enough to persuade voters who have always baked
into their calculation. And this is what the media doesn't
understand because the media is pretty friendly with a lot
of politicians.
Speaker 7 (39:32):
Other voters understand that.
Speaker 8 (39:34):
Politicians are probably bad people, right like, they know that
you're not convincing people to stop supporting Trump by saying
he's a bad guy. That's not like a slam dunk
own on a Trump supporter. They actually are making a
calculated decision that he was going to disrupt the system.
And if you're not competing on that field, you're not
(39:54):
competing at all. You're arguing totally past what you could
possibly persuade people on yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
And I think also the party's donors are ambivalent about
any class first messaging.
Speaker 7 (40:07):
Yeah, yeah, of course that.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
They're like, eh, like, can we do some of the
other stuff. Were you at all or welcome?
Speaker 8 (40:16):
When they did the asterisk after every mention of Trump. Yeah,
I look back in that and I remember it said
like Donald Trump is a racist, enophobic, chemophobic bigot and
something like that, and every mention of Trump it had
an asterisk and said that. I was like, I mean,
many people believe all of that is true. I mean,
you can make arguments about all of that, but it's
not persuasive. It actually distracts. I don't know, we don't
(40:38):
have to relitigate that. But it was a good example
of the approach at the time.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, I mean, and I think if we went back
and looked at it, it didn't. I don't think it
had any class messaging in it because, like you could
have led with.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Donald Trump is a billionaire blah blah, right, But.
Speaker 7 (40:57):
I think the only way that union busting.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Right only rips off everyone who's ever worked for him.
I think the only way huff Post was able to
get away with that, And yeah, I was, I was
there and involved with it at the time, like journalistically
was because it it would feel more part as than
if it was class in a way mm hmm, like
(41:20):
because what it was doing was pointing to their universal
American values, which are, you know, equality, justice, we treat
all people with dignity, civil rights like at least at
that time, Yeah, everyone believed in the civil rights movement,
like left to far right like that. The civil not
(41:41):
not far right, but left to right civil rights movement
was seen as like a very good thing that was
that was brought to people who fought for justice, brought
by people who were.
Speaker 8 (41:50):
Charlie Kirk had not yet discovered Martin Luther King Jr.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah, yeah, right, They hadn't gone down different rabbit holes
and come up with theories and and so it appealed
to these universal values, whereas if you say, he's a billionaire,
he wants to rip people off, like that feels that's
us against them. That's that's more partisan, in not in
a party sense, but in a.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
We are.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
There's just fundamental disagreements here that we're not going to
win by persuasion.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
We're going to just have to beat the one percent.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We're just like or the one percent is going to
have to beat us, like this is a fight over
something that makes sense, and so then as journalists that
that feels like you're now engaging in the you're in
that fight in a way where if you're just upholding
universal values, like when the Washing Post says democracy dies
in darkness, like they can say that and not feel
(42:51):
partisan because ye, of course we're all for democracy and
we're all for transparency and we're all against darkness. When
you say, you know, the one percent are ripping us all.
Speaker 7 (43:06):
Off, I don't think your owners will love it.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yeah, and the point one percent of ripping the one percent.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Off, yeah yeah, then that feels now you're tangling.
Speaker 8 (43:19):
Which is also the massive like unanswered question to the
extent that Democrats are able to replicate if they want
to win, if they put power above everything else, and
that's not all of them, you know, it's some like
some Republicans have genuine ideological values that they want to advance.
But if they just want to win, do they replicate
the Mom Donnie campaign in congressional races in the midterms,
(43:42):
for example, in gubernatorial races where you learn from.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Him and Democrats made affordability the thing that was associated
with them.
Speaker 8 (43:50):
Right, but they're already getting hammered for what. There are
already Republicans running ads comparing like random DEM candidates. I
forget who the first one I saw was, but like
random D candidates to mom Donnie. I think Glenn Younkin
said it about the gubernatorial nominee in Virginia, Stanberger, right.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
Exactly, exactly real, Mom Donnie.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
It's suicidal and part of Democrats because the question is,
how do you define what he stands for to the
national public before you're then linked with him. And so
if the national public is like, oh, yeah, Mom Donnie,
this guy who like ran to make groceries cheaper in
New York, then when Republicans are like, spamburger is nothing
(44:32):
but another Mom Donnie, people are like, oh cool, so
she's also going to make groceries cheaper in Virginia. But
if Republicans are all saying that he's a Sharia law
loving jihadist, and then Democrats are also saying that they
have deep concerns about his use of the word global jihadis,
and then she and then cures in jail Brennapp apologizes
(44:53):
because he never said that, but like that, they have
all these concerns about him. Right, so all the leading
Democrats still not endorsed him, became Jefferies, Chuck Schumer, Jello Brand.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
And it's Swosey just put Tom Sposey.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Long just had a op ed in the New York
Times about how bad he is. And so if Republicans
are saying he's really awful and like the worst and
basically a terrorist, and Democrats are saying, the leading Democrats
are saying, yeah, he's kind of bad, He's not that bad,
Like Republicans are over the top and then bigoted in
(45:29):
the way they're talking about him.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
But I do have a lot of concerns about him.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Then nationally, if you're a voter, you're like, oh, this
guy seems pretty concerning. You have to actually like engage
with him or immedia that covers him honestly to get
the accurate impression.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
And there aren't enough people that do that.
Speaker 8 (45:46):
Yeah, I mean this is from a cure like just
a purely cynical perspective, but Republicans are basically able to
do this. With Nancy Pelosi back in twenty ten, socialist
Nancy Pelosi back in twenty ten, it's when they put
enough money behind it and enough like what's the right
word for it, craft into like carvilion public relations efforts
(46:07):
into it.
Speaker 7 (46:08):
You can.
Speaker 8 (46:09):
It's one of the scary things about politics meediing in general,
but you can in a red state pretty easily capitalize
on a mom Donnie narrative. It doesn't mean that mom
Donnie is in any way a net drag on the
Democratic Party, but I think it'll probably work for them
in red states.
Speaker 7 (46:25):
Not so much of Virginia though.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
But yeah, I think if Democrats wanted to like avoid
this problem, yeah, they would say, of course I support
I'm Donnie and it's call to make groceries cheaper.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
But they just can't do that.
Speaker 8 (46:40):
Just the guy wants to make I don't agree with
him on everything, but I sure as I'll agree with
him making groceries cheaper.
Speaker 7 (46:47):
For advice here, I mean, we're always.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Just giving it out and nobody takes it.
Speaker 7 (46:50):
Yeah, all right, Ryan, let's move on.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
To the ditty tri Yes, so, uh, Sean ditty Collms
is not walking out of the courthouse a freeman, but
he thought he might for a second, so he was acquitted.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
We could put this first element up on the screen.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
He was quitted on the most serious charges, the racketeering
charge and the and the sex trafficking charges. But he
did get found guilty on two counts of transporting prostitutes.
He was not he did not get hit with any
domestic violence charges because they were outside the statute of limitations, right,
And so did he collapse to the floor and like
(47:32):
praying do we have that? Do we have that image
of him like praying? Seat there yet thanking a thank
to the jurors, and then it did it did seem
like he felt like he was about to get out,
and the judge said no, interestingly cited the domestic violence
that was in the case as the reason why she
was not giving bail before sentencing or he cheer.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
He the judge the judge, I didn't watch enough of
the case.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Which is interesting because clearly he was guilty, it's on video,
but he was not tried for it. So it's this
gray area where bail and accusations can have an interplay
that leads to you being behind chart, behind behind bars.
But clearly a jury felt that it was not a conspiracy.
(48:20):
And what what did he had argued or did he's
lawyers had argued, is that yes, there was a plan
to have these freak offs.
Speaker 5 (48:29):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
And they were organized, and in that sense, there was
a conspiracy because he would tell, hey, you do the drugs,
you do the.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Baby oil, you bring the women.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
And he had and he had an overarching kind of
leverage campaign that he would use with women where some
would have beginning ten thousand a month and child support others,
others would have an emotional connection others.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
You know, there's different various ways that he got them involved.
Plus some you know, just.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
According to them and seems credible fear of violence. So
there are all these pieces. But he made this they
made this kind of loophole argument almost that the other
people were not partners in a conspiracy. There were just
his flunkies who he paid to do work, and that
if you could use Rico for this, you could use
(49:21):
Rico for anything where you didn't, you know, single handedly
carry out every aspect of the crime, like you know,
if you go and buy a handgun and then commit
a crime with.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
It, like.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
And it was just a business transaction with the gun owner,
like did you conspire with the gun owner even if
the gun owner knew what you're gonna do? That would
be and the point is that would be a different
crime like that, that's the underlying crime, but layering conspiracy
on top of it doesn't get you there. That That
is my guess at trying to get into the jurors mindset.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
What what did you think of the response?
Speaker 7 (50:02):
Yeah, I mean I think that.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
What's your response to the jury's response?
Speaker 7 (50:05):
No, I think that's right.
Speaker 8 (50:07):
I think the rico is starting to look like an
over prosecution. Bundling everything into a rico is starting to
look like a real mistake.
Speaker 7 (50:15):
And you will be.
Speaker 8 (50:16):
Shocked to learn that one of the leading prosecutors on
this case is Marine Comy, who is James Commey's daughter.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Amazing.
Speaker 8 (50:23):
Yeah, it's just wild stuff, but it looks like a
really overconfident prosecution team. To be clear, he could end
up with twenty years in prison, so he was denied bail.
He has to stay in prison until his sentencing, which
is on October third, so he's still got a ways
to go. But he could still also get twenty.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Years, right, it's highly probably unlikely.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
Right.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
So each there's two charges and their ten years maximum. Right,
So if they were served one after the other and
both the maximum, then he could get twenty years.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
Right, But.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
This is when sentence and guidelines come in and you
have to kind of set aside who he is and
what we know about the case. And pretty sure he's
the first time offender. Does he have any other charges
from before?
Speaker 7 (51:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (51:13):
Does he? What does he have?
Speaker 8 (51:15):
He was? I mean, he's been involved in so many things.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
Which he's got a bunch of lawsuits.
Speaker 8 (51:21):
Well, there was the I'm trying to remember whether he
got charged.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
For it, but there was Michael j Lo mac is
already screened mac get.
Speaker 8 (51:28):
Yeah, send this to us, producer back. But there was
the j Lo shooting. There was the nightclub like fire
that people died in that he was implicated in.
Speaker 4 (51:37):
Right, did he catch charges on any of that thing?
Speaker 8 (51:39):
Right?
Speaker 7 (51:39):
That's a good question.
Speaker 8 (51:40):
He's, by the way, he is fifty five, So if
he gets twenty years and serves out twenty years, he'll
be an old man before he.
Speaker 7 (51:46):
Gets out of prison.
Speaker 4 (51:46):
But my guess is that he definitely will not serve
all twenty years. I don't think. I don't think even close.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Even now, there's some indication from the fact that he
was denied bail here that the judge is going to
go as hard as they feel like they can get
away with.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
But I'd be very surprised.
Speaker 8 (52:07):
I think he was acquitted of murder in the first
I think there was like a big if I'm remember incorrectly,
there was a big case in the nightclub murder situation.
This would have been around two thousand and I want
to say he was acquitted of that. Actually, let's take
a listen to Megan Kelly's reaction. Followed the case very
(52:28):
closely and had some legal experts on when the news
came down, and go ahead and take a look at
this next club.
Speaker 12 (52:34):
Combs shook his head vigorously and put his hands together
in prayer. Oh, it's all just so chummy inside the
courtroom for this disgusting pervert female abuser who I can't
believe is about j Romar Streets. Again, I'm sorry, I'm
disgusted by this verdict. This is fucking ridiculous. I just
find it absolutely outrageous the amount of crime that this
(52:55):
guy just got away with. I believe he committed arson.
He definitely battered Cassie. He Jane too. The statute of
limitations for battery in Los Angeles, California is one year
one year, So if they didn't charge him for battery
within one year, and they couldn't because he bought the
tape and it remained hidden thanks to those security guards
out there. Then they could never charge him with that. Again,
(53:18):
there's no question he dragged her back into that hotel room.
Why wasn't that kidnapping? They only talked about the kidnapping
of Capricorn Clark, who was his sort of main assistant,
because she said he grabbed her and made her go
with him over to kid Cutty's house. There's no question
he broke into kid Cutty's house in my view, and
that he opened up the Christmas presidents and locked the
(53:40):
door in and made a thread. There's no question in
my mind he was behind the arson of kid Cutty's car.
And there was proof, plenty of proof to prove that.
Speaker 10 (53:49):
No.
Speaker 12 (53:49):
Okay, there was female fingerprints they found on that, the
firebomb that was left there, the Molotov cocktail, and the
prosecution said, there's no question he didn't do it himself.
But he said I'm going to bomb kid Cutty's car.
It's in writing. Cassie Ventura emailed her mother saying, oh
my god, he's threatening to bomb his car. And two
weeks later it got bombed.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
Oh gee, it was just some.
Speaker 12 (54:09):
Third party who also had it's This is just like
the proof was there, the beatings, the threats that if
they didn't go back into those rooms and get off
with these male escorts, that they were going to get beaten.
The testimony from that Daniel Phillip, who was the male
escort who heard Colmb's abusing Cassie behind the door and
she was screaming, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, as he heard
(54:30):
him slapping her. Get back out there. She came back out,
she was shaking. She got back into the escort's lap,
physically shaking. She was so scared to the point where
that guy couldn't perform sexually because this was so horrifying
to him. What in the actual f went on in there?
Speaker 8 (54:47):
Yeah, so I feel like that's probably the general public's reaction.
It just baffling, and it seems ran like the prosecution
just I mean, in that clip, at least one of
the legal experts goes on to kind of blame the jury.
But I would think that the onus for the failure
here asked to lie with the prosecution.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Yeah, sure, I mean, the they it's very hard to
lose a federal case. Like it's like they've their conviction
rate is absolutely through the roof, and.
Speaker 4 (55:15):
So yeah, they they clearly own the blame for this,
you know.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
And what we didn't cover this trial a whole bunch,
but whenever we did and would I would look into it.
I remember, you know, I would think, like they're really
leaning into the emotional aspect of this. You know, how
poorly he treated Cassie and and these other women, and
how just what an absolutely like repulsive lifestyle he was
(55:41):
leading using violence and emotional manipulation to you know, pull
these multi day freak coughs off.
Speaker 4 (55:50):
And but I remember thinking every time, like people, but
where where what are the crimes here? M M.
Speaker 7 (55:58):
Was obvious?
Speaker 3 (56:01):
Yes, the violence, yeah, but then that's out of the
statute of limitations, right, the drugs no charge, prostitution convicted,
But like beyond that, like where's the I and trafficking
is an interesting like yeah concept and charge. It's like
it's interesting to get if you pay someone, if you
(56:23):
can pay a prostitute to get in a car, yeah,
and then go to go to a hotel.
Speaker 4 (56:27):
For a freak cough? Did you traffic them there?
Speaker 8 (56:29):
Right?
Speaker 7 (56:30):
Right?
Speaker 4 (56:30):
And it's like, what does that mean?
Speaker 8 (56:33):
Yeah, No, I mean that's a really good point. It's
and so I guess partially another thing is not The.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Jury was like, that's not trafficking, that's that's paying a prostitute.
Speaker 8 (56:41):
And it's not necessarily easy for the prosecution then to
build a case based on all and I think a
lot of it also is him. So he's alleged to
have drugged people many many times.
Speaker 4 (56:50):
Which would be a crime if they didn't charge.
Speaker 8 (56:52):
That, right, And I think because it looks like they
were overconfident started bundling things into the Rico case, thinking.
Speaker 7 (56:58):
That they had him right on racketeering because.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
He clearly conspired to organize these freak costs. But the
jury was like, not really illegal, except that most of
the pieces within it are actually illegal right within it.
Speaker 8 (57:13):
Yes, And so yeah, we were just looking up his
criminal history.
Speaker 7 (57:18):
He has been charged many many times.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
He was he never got charged for the nine people dying.
He should have been charged with some type of negligence there.
Speaker 7 (57:25):
It's a pretty if.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
Everybody probably knows about this case.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
This there was a stampede that a at a event
that he put on. It's where he knew ninety I've
got to hear December ninety one, where he knew that
too many people were there, didn't care, wanted too many
people to be there for the spectacle. Nine people end
up dying, doesn't get charged for that. He got convicted
(57:50):
nineteen ninety six, convicted of criminal mischief for threatening a
photographer with a gun.
Speaker 4 (57:55):
So that's a conviction. That's something that the judge can
point to.
Speaker 8 (57:58):
That's where he's that's a pretty easy denial of bail predicate, right.
Speaker 3 (58:03):
And then in ninety nine, Combs in his bodyguards are
charged with attacking this is PBS I'm reading from, or
attacking Interscope Records, music music executive over dispute over music video.
He was sentenced to anger and anger management. Course didn't work,
but that's at least that's something on the record that
(58:26):
the judge can then point to. December ninety nine, he's
arrested on gun possession charges for that nightclub shooting that
you mentioned, where Jennifer Lopez.
Speaker 7 (58:38):
Was in the car.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
Three people got wounded.
Speaker 8 (58:40):
A woman still says that Diddy is the one who
shot her, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
Yeah, there are people that say that he was shooting
and that's that he shot her. He was later charged
with offering his driver fifty grand to claim ownership of
the nine millimeter that was found in the car. We
know from this trial that him offering to pay people
(59:04):
to get out of trouble is something that he does,
so that's a quite credible charge there. However, he was
then acquitted of all charges. Well, Shine took the took
the fall for that. So the judge, can you point
to the arrest, but you're not supposed to. If you're
arrested and convicted, you're not. That's not really supposed to
(59:25):
factor into your sentencing because you're supposed to have been
found Like innocent is supposed to mean innocent doesn't always
mean that, but that's how that's what's supposed to mean.
Then he got arrested in twenty fifteen. He looks like
he got in a fight at a UCLA game where
his son was playing football, but the charges were dropped.
Speaker 8 (59:46):
This is why fifty cent referred to him yesterday as
the gay John Gotti.
Speaker 4 (59:49):
Nothing's sticking to him, Teon Teflon Diddy, Yeah, it's all
that baby oil.
Speaker 7 (59:56):
Yes, he charges slippery, yeah.
Speaker 4 (59:58):
Slip right off.
Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
And then these charges so he has not zero criminal record.
He has a very long criminal record, most of it
ending with acquittals or like misdemeanor stuff. So that's why
it's going to be a real stretch for the judge
to hit him with the maximum. And even if she does,
(01:00:21):
he'll appeal this, so I expect he'll be walking free
in a matter of several years.
Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Five to ten max.
Speaker 7 (01:00:29):
Unbelievable. Well, on that note, Ryan.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
And a lot of people took a lot of risks
coming forward, come forward, Yeah, that they are suffering greatly
right now.
Speaker 7 (01:00:40):
Yeah, Oh my gosh. The trial was just awful.
Speaker 10 (01:00:43):
It was.
Speaker 7 (01:00:43):
It was one of those ones.
Speaker 8 (01:00:44):
It was just hard to follow because Cassie was testifying
about all this while she was pregnant. It was just
a really really really dark trial. And I forget I
want to say.
Speaker 7 (01:00:54):
This was on Hulu.
Speaker 8 (01:00:55):
Someone did a fantastic documentary into the sort of influences
emotion on that sort of forged did he like?
Speaker 7 (01:01:03):
How did he become who he became?
Speaker 8 (01:01:05):
And it is just incredibly sad and dark. So I
hope that there's at least some closure for people who
suffered from this.
Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
And I was saying yesterday I actually liked doing the
show without the laptop here because fewer distractions.
Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
On the other hand, when it comes to something.
Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
I really don't remember, which is like Diddy's criminal record,
actually helpful, not.
Speaker 7 (01:01:26):
At the top of your mind to have it here.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Yeah, I knew it'd been in and out of trouble,
but yeah, as so my memory actually served mostly correct
that he's basically gotten out of all the jams that
he's been in.
Speaker 7 (01:01:38):
Yeah, but there's so many of them, a lot.
Speaker 8 (01:01:40):
I think that's when you look it up, you're just like,
holy smoked, it is.
Speaker 7 (01:01:43):
It's gotty esque.
Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Yes, it is so no Friday show, It's July fourth,
will be independent of our laptops in the morning, Happy independence.
Say to everybody, I hope you enjoy the fireworks or
a barbecue or whatever you're up to.
Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
Yeah, we'll be back on somebody will be back on Monday.
Speaker 8 (01:02:00):
Yeah, I think Crystal and Soccer back. There you go,
so great news, get get rid of us.
Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
Yeah we promised they'll be here.
Speaker 8 (01:02:06):
Yeah, well, no, we don't, can't make promise.
Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
They're gonna try very hard they will be Yeah.
Speaker 7 (01:02:11):
Well maybe they'll get caught up in the system like
we did.
Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
There you go, all right, all right, see you guys.
Then
Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
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Speaker 3 (00:33):
For the past many months, the BBC has been broiled
in a controversy in which it has been refusing to
air a documentary that kind of took on a life
of its own inside the organization, as the journalists there
have been demanding to know what happened to an investigation
that the BBC had commissioned into Israel's war on the
(00:55):
on medical professionals in the entire kind of medical community
inside of Gaza. That contrivers now resulted in the documentary
being acquired by Mehdi Hassen and Zeteo News for its
worldwide distribution and by Channel four inside the UK for
its UK distribution. So many's joining us now to talk
(01:17):
about this documentary and also the process that led up
to it being centered and now being finally released last night.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Maddie, thanks so much for joining us, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And I wanted to start by honoring several of the
medical professionals who have been killed in this genocide. If
we could put up I believe it is C three
drop site posted this yesterday. This is a picture from
a graduation ceremony at the Faculty of Medicine in Gaza.
(01:53):
Four of the people that you're looking at in this
photo doctor Omar Farwana, who was the dean of the
Faculty of Medicine, doctor Adnan al Bersh who was head
of orthopedic surgery at Al Shifa Medical Complex, got A
Rafat Lubad who was the head of internal medicine at
Al Shifa. And also then this week was the killing
(02:14):
of doctor Marwan al Sultan, who was the director of
the Indonesian Hospital and a cardiologist. So in that photo,
four of four of them have been assassinated, several targeted
at their homes, not collateral damage from attacks on you know,
(02:34):
fighters are caught in crossfire. But medi I want you
to talk about the targeting of medical professionals because that
is what I think people don't understand because it sounds
so insane to say it out loud, that.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
It sounds insane to say it out loud.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
It's I mean two things, three things I think sound
insane over the last twenty one months, twenty two months
that we've normalized. One obviously the deliberate killing of journalists,
which a lot of journalists in the.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
West have a lot of problem comprehending.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
The other is the deliberate killing of children, of course
gunshot wounds to the head, sniper shots, not collateral damage.
And of course the third is the doctors, the killing
of doctors, nurses, paramedics, the deliberate targeting.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
And destruction of Garza's healthcare.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
That is what the premise that was the basis of
this film is. And this film, produced by award winning
filmmakers at Basement Films in the UK, made over several months,
went through rigorous checks, went through the BBC editorial process
for much of it.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Ride of reply.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
Fantastic lead report remain a Navai award winning war correspondent
and they put together this film, this hour long film
based on eyewitness testimony from Palestinian doctors and survivors, as
well as doctor Adnan old Brush, who you just mentioned.
He's in this film, but he's since been killed in
Israeli captivity, tortured and died in prison, killed in prison
(03:58):
as one of his colleagues. So you've got eyewitness testimony
from Palestinian doctors to what they have had to endure.
We also have an Israeli medic whistleblower in the film
who served at State Taman, the Israeli Gulag, the prison,
the black site where they've taken Palestinian detainees to be tortured, raped, killed.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
So it's all there put together in the film.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
And you mentioned, you know, the targeting of doctors saying
it out loud perhaps the most powerful moment for me
in the film, and we just I would urge breaking
points views to go to the Zeteo Twitter feed or
Zeteo Bluska.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
We actually put up a clip from the.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Film last night, separate to the trailer, which is one
of the most powerful moments in the film from doctor
Khalid Hamouda who was a surgeon, who is a surgeon
in guards are now in Egypt, who was bombed in
his home with his family, a family of to other doctors.
At first ten people killed. They then flee him his
wife as child, and they go down the street by
the way. His house is blown up, not the entire street,
(04:54):
just his house. They then go down the street to
take refuge and a drone follows them down the street
and attacks them again. And he wakes up in a
hospital and sees a nurse carrying his child, his daughter,
who's dead.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
The next morning, his wife, the mother of his child,
is also dead.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
He's told Keled he's the only survivor or one of
the only survivors I believe, from that masacret And she says,
remin and Viler, what you were talking? He says, yes,
drone came and targeted us. And this is what we
heard from the world Central Kitchen folks when they were
in the humanitarian convoy and they were.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Targeted car to car to car.
Speaker 6 (05:28):
This is what we've heard from journalists, of course, and
this is what we have to get our heads around.
The United States of America has been arming and funding
a country that is systematically. This is a key word here,
destroying the Gaza healthcare system, destroying doctors and medics. And
the key point here, and it comes out in the film.
You can rebuild hospitals in years to come. Trump can
(05:49):
turn Gaza into the Riviera of the Middle East and
build as many hospitals as you like. You cannot rebuild
that knowledge base, you cannot rebuild that human base.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
You cannot just.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Get doctors back of Ghazan society palaces for years educating
itself in this way, and these Raelis have deliberately targeted it.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
Well, let's take a look at the trailer.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
This is one to get a sample of what people
can expect from the film.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Rome.
Speaker 9 (06:17):
Israel has been killing the very people trying to keep
the healthcare system alive, its doctors and medics, despite hospitals
and healthcare workers being protected under international law. As Israel
has bonded Gaza, hundreds of Palestinian doctors and medics have
refused to leave their hospital.
Speaker 10 (06:40):
We are in the theater and operating room, full of darkness,
no water, no electricity, but we have a hero surgeons
in Gaza.
Speaker 9 (06:53):
Hundreds of medics have been killed, hundreds have been detained.
Many of them have been forcibly disappeared. Our Palestinian team
on the ground have gathered testimony from health workers and
their families.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Wings of them, and Israeli.
Speaker 9 (07:16):
Whistleblowers have told us they witnessed Palestinian prisoners being tortured
and that some Israeli medics are complicit.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
I don't even think that in the Israeli society there
is a need for cover up. These days, you can
do almost whatever you want when it comes to gardens.
Speaker 8 (07:38):
One of the things people conceive METI is that this
is a high production value film. In the BBC funded
this film. The BBC then refused to err it and
was giving quote unquote bullshit reasons. According to a source
who told that to the Independent and medi you have
probably a lot of insight into this process of why
the BBC, which had recently aired row documentary, I believe
(08:01):
that was on BBC.
Speaker 7 (08:03):
What happened?
Speaker 8 (08:03):
What's your understanding of why they ended up getting rid
of a film that they funded?
Speaker 6 (08:09):
So the BBC put out a very long statement, a
bullshit statement, I would argue as well. Their argument was
that they had this other documentary that they aired on GAZA,
which became super controversial, I would argue for unnecessary reasons.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
It was narrated by a child in Gaza surviving the war.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
And it turns out the child was the son of
a deputy agriculture minister in the Gaza government, some technocrat
who was then labeled, of course as just Hamas.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
And there was a huge furory in the UK that.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
The BBC had put out a film from the child
of a Hamas minister, even though again it was a
well sourced, well made, high production valuy film.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
The child had not decided the editorial agenda.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
But while they were quote unquote investigating how that happened,
they decided to park this film, which, as you say,
they'd spent a lot of money on, spent many months
making with Basement Films, who we are Detayo know well
because they made a film for his last year called
Israel's Real Extremism, which came on the show talking about
memory sells me correctly then and the fundamental argument for
the BBC was, well, Basement Films went out and talked
(09:08):
about the process while we were still trying to get
everything approved. They then put out Basement were frustrated. Of course,
my friend Benda Peir, who's the executive producer, formerhead of Channel.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Four News, very respected award winning journalists.
Speaker 6 (09:18):
He went out at the Sheffield Documentary Festival and said,
come on, this is ridiculous. We've got doctors in the
film waiting for this film to come out. We're showing
disrespect to people who risked their lives to talk to us. Sources, whistleblowers,
you know, survivors are massacres. The BBC put out statements
saying well, if we put it out now, there will
be the perception of partiality, and the BBC can't have
(09:39):
the perception of partiality. The great irony being, of course,
that their decision not to air this film that they
commissioned that ran through their checks. That is the greatest
perception of partiality. It's partiality towards Israel. They have now
run one Gaza doc and then pulled it nowhere to
be seen because apparently it was the child of a
Hamas minister bullshit argument. And now they didn't even the
(10:00):
other Gaza documentary. And then add that to all of
the rest of the coverage of the BBC's of Gaza
over the last twenty one to twenty two months, which
has been abysmal, which has been which has caused multiple
internal you know, backlashes, protests from BBC staff who are
frustrated at what their broadcaster has done. This is a
BBC that has been cowed, intimidated, pressured, bullied.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
This is a BBC. I used to work at the BBC.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
I used to defend the BBC when I worked in
the UK from right wing bullshit attacks. But I think
I've never seen in my entire lifetime. I'm im about
to turn forty six years old, in my entire lifetime,
I'm watching the BBC.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
I've been watching the BBC since.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Children's Cartoons on a Saturday morning, and I can honestly
say it's never taken a beating like this. I've never
had such a depressing, disappointing view of the national broadcast
in the UK that I've had since October twenty twenty three.
I know many other people who stopped watching the BBC,
stopped appearing on the BBC because their coverage has been
so shameful, not just in the documentary space, but in
the new space, the online space, the ridiculous headlines. There
(10:59):
was a study by the SENSE for Media Monitoring recently
which said they give thirty three times as much coverage
per Israeli casualty as they do per Palestinian casualty.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
So there's not a perception of partiality.
Speaker 6 (11:10):
There's a well documented evidence of partiality towards Israel.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
And I want to linger on that point and connect.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It to the point that you made about the original
controversy that then put this documentary on ice.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Trying to imagine a world in which a.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Documentary was made about the difficulties faced by Israeli children
in the war, which are non trivial, often headed to
bomb shelters, which is absolutely even if nothing happens, it's
traumatizing for a child to have to hide, to hide
somewhere with their family in the dark, worried that they
(11:51):
might get hit by a bomb.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Like that alone is traumatizing.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
So let's say that the BBC commission a documentary focused
on the way that the war was affecting children, and
then it turned out that the boy's father worked for
the Ministry of Agriculture in Israel, and they pulled the
documentary and apologized and and.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Investigated how that could happen?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
How could you possibly have aired the thoughts of a
child whose father works for the Ministry of Agriculture in Israel.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That to me kind of tells you everything you need.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
To know about the way that the BBC approached it.
So how difficult was it to kind of pry this
out of the BBC or were they like, thank you, Metti,
We're so glad to be done with this controversy.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
So the heavy lifting was done by Ben de Paratt
Basement Films, who spent who made this film, sweat and
blood in this film, spent a long time.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
In back and forth with the BBC. And you know,
he runs an independent production company.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
It's very risky for him to pick a fight with
one of the biggest broadcasters in the world, which commissions
his staff. So props to my friend Ben really for
believing in this film and saying, look, I want it
out there. Doesn't matter if I screw up my relationship
with people, doesn't matter if I lose money on this.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
I want it out there.
Speaker 6 (13:11):
And the BBC did sit on it for a while
and weren't going to release it as far as I'm aware,
and eventually they did release it, partly because of Ben's cajoling,
partly because I think they just wanted to be done
with it, and then US and Channel four were able
to come in and say, well, we're going to give
it a platform. I knew from the moment they benched it,
if this film becomes available, I was messaging men, say
we want a platform. This is what Zato was created for,
(13:32):
right to give these voices to the world, to try
and platform these voices.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
We know, Ryan, you and I that the right have
been arguing.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
About cancel culture for decades and yet the single biggest
victims of cancel culture are Palestinians and supporters of the
Palestinian movement and journalism about Palestine and academia about Palestine,
and that has been a fundamental issue. We've seen that
in this conflict, and I think that was a frustrating
issue where the BBC we're not airing it and we're
not releasing it, and the moment they released it, we
(14:01):
move fast. And props to Channel four broadcaster in the
UK for running it, because again, Ryan, you say hamas
and everything shuts down, All critical faculties shut down, even
amongst smart liberal, progressive folks. And if you're able to
say anything's hamasked, and that's what you're able to throw
at it, and I'm sure people will throw that at
this film as well. One thing I took great pride
in doing was take you know, the BBC put out
(14:22):
statements saying this is not our film anymore. That's true,
it's not their film anymore. We made some We made
a few changes. One of the changes we made is
we took out all references to the Hamas run health ministry.
We call it the Garza Ministry of Health of this film.
That in itself is a propagandistic and loaded phrase, as
you well know, because it allows people to then cast
doubt on the deaths and torture pass it. And we
have eyewitness accounts of this film fro people who are
(14:43):
nothing knew Hamas about that suffering. Just one quick story
that your viewers might be interested in that I heard
recently from someone else. You talk about the kind of
imagine if this was the other way around. A production company,
I'm told went to a major American broadcaster at the
start of this conflict, at the start of the genocide
and had a story worry about a Palestinian family just
to kind of followed the moon around and the suffering
(15:04):
they were going through and the number of members of
the family had been killed, and the American broadcaster said,
we'll run it, but first go and find First, let
us go and find an Israeli family so we can
balance it and we'll run both stories. A few weeks later,
they came back to the production company and said, well,
we can't find the Israeli family that suffered like the
Palestinian Family show does.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Therefore we're not running your story. Not we'll just run yours,
but we won't run.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
Anything now because we can't do this fake bullshit balance.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Right, And it would would have looked worse if you
try to do the balance, because you'd see.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
They just dropped the whole thing. Right, This is what
happens if Palestinian voice is are silence.
Speaker 8 (15:44):
The other interesting thing about the BBC's position here is
they're not disputing any facts in the film or any
of the journalism, right many they aren't. They aren't disputing
the quality of the journalism. They're not even saying that
it didn't meet their editorial standards, which is a pretty
usual excuse.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Yep, not at all. And I think they're hiding behind
this bullshit phrase perception of partiality.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
So it's only and By the way, Emily, they're not
even saying it's a biased film. They're saying if we
run it now, people will say that we are biased
to one side, and we are scared of people people
being the pros ra A lobby, and therefore we are
not going to put it out. I mean, look, the
people who made this film of one Oscars and Emmy's
the reporter Ramita Nevai is of Iranian descent, has done
(16:28):
films all about Iran's human rights abuses.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
She's traveled around the world. The credibility of these people
cannot be questioned. I'm sure it will be questioned by
bad faith actors.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
And yet this is where we've reached now, in the
name of protecting Israel, wittingly or unwittingly, we've burned down
international law, and we've burned down journalistic credibility.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
We've burned down so.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
Many institutions which will not survive the last twenty two months.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
So, Mady, where can people go to find this?
Speaker 6 (16:54):
So they can go to find this at gazadoctors dot
film that's the website we set up for this film specifically,
or zateo dot com. It is available to paid subscribers
for now. People will say, well, why not put it
out for free to the world. Well, because the people
behind this film spent a lot of time and money
making this film, and I just want to remind people
that a free press isn't free. High quality journalism requires investment.
(17:16):
If you really want documentaries that are going to win
awards and report on the ground and break stories, then
we really have to support it financially. I'm proud that
Zeteo is financially supporting this film.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
It costs a lot of money around Emily.
Speaker 6 (17:28):
As you know, documentaries cost a lot, and therefore we
are airing it to our paid subscribers. I urge people
to become a paid subscriber. If you become a monthly
subscriber's less than the cost of going to the movie
theater to watch a film. And this film is more
important than any other film you're going to see this year,
including the f one movie, which I loved, But this
movie is more important.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
It is true.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Journalism is expensive, and documentaries are particularly so.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
The travel, the.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Sophistication that goes into the legally, the leegaling, oh my god,
don't get me started on the legaling. Well, Mettie, thank
you so much for joining us and congrats on this acquisition.
I'm glad that it's it's getting out there. Finally, a
new legal filing from attorneys for Kilmar Abrego Garcia alleges
(18:15):
that he was tortured while in Seacott custody in El Salvador.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
We can put up this first element up on the screen.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Abreo Garcia was it has it has become the detainee
who has captured the most attention.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
And it could have gone a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It could have been the makeup artist who is still
facing these brutal conditions in El Salvadora. Could have been
the soccer the venezuela and soccer player who had absolutely
no connection to Toneo Ragua and yet remains down there.
Abrego Garcia has become the one that Democrats kind of
focus their attention on. He would He was returned from
(18:58):
Al Salvador, surprise by the administration to face face charges
for human trafficking in Nashville in the in the Nashville area,
charges which are now face kind of crumbling under scrutiny.
This this new allegation service as a part of these
(19:19):
ongoing proceedings, and we're still joined by a Sto's Mandy
Hassen to talk through some of this. Many thank you
for sticking around. We appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
It's a terrific story.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Run it really is they talk about and you know
what you know they they he says that you know,
he walked into Seacott and one of the guards said
to him and was saying to everybody who was coming in,
welcome to Seacott.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Those who enter, uh never leave and a break up.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Garcia is one of the only cases that I think
we even know of, whether in El Salvador or anywhere else,
of somebody leaving leaving Seacott alive soon after getting there.
It seems like they had them all kneel for twenty
four hours, which.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Maddy and I are old men at this point.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
If we kneel for two minutes, were we are, we're
struggling hard and then they were beaten. If they if
they collapsed, and the filing says that he soiled himself,
you know, while they were being forced to kneel kind
of overnight among a bunch of the other abuses. Do
you think that this is the reason why the Trump
(20:33):
administration was initially so reluctant to and is still reluctant
to return anybody from the detention center because they can
then talk about what happened down there.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
I think he's part of the reason. I don't think
it's the whole reason.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
I think even if they weren't being tortured there, it's
a point of principle right for the bullies not to
give in, and they don't want to say that. All
the liberal media and the Democrats made and the human
rights science has.
Speaker 5 (20:56):
Made us bring people back.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
You remember that the ridiculous playing Homeland Security Secretary Christi
nom went in front of Congress and said, I guarantee
you he's never coming back. Well, he did come back,
but for this bullshit Tennessee indictment for human trafficking, human smuggling.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Yeah. I think it's part of the reason. It's not
the only reason.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
And Human Rights to Watch have documented that this is
a prison where people never leave from and yes, they
are just literally disappeared inside of there. It's a horrific
gulag in El Salvador, created by a kind of autocrat
President Buckley Trump's ally.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
People are treated horrifically.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
He was threatened with being put into cells with gang
members where he would be killed. He was told by
the guards. He had his head shaved forcibly with a
zero razor. He was beaten with wooden batons, he was
punched in the head. He was, as you say, forced
to kneel all night long, kicked and beaten if they
weren't able to kneel all night long, soiled himself, deprived
(21:50):
of food, malnutrition, lost.
Speaker 5 (21:52):
Dozens of pounds.
Speaker 6 (21:53):
You'll remember that photo that the Trump administration released with
him and Chris van Holland having Margarita's which, as the
said from Mariland pointed that they didn't order it was
placed in the picture by the El Salvadorans to.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
Make it look like they were having this great time.
He was not having a great time.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
And we can only dread to imagine what is happening
to some of the other innocent people who have been
sent there. The gay barber who was sent there, the
guy with the autism tattoos who was looking after his brother.
So many cases. There was a case just this week
I read of where the Trump administration have admitted for
once that they sent someone who shouldn't have been sent
out over but they can't find him anymore. I tweeted
(22:29):
this yesterday and I stand by this. You said you
and I are old men because we can't neel. We're
also old men who remember two thousand and one, two
thousand and two, two thousand and three. I think this
is as big a scandal, if not bigger scandal than
Abu Grebe and Guantanamo Bay. This is happening in plain sight.
At least we could argue in two thousand and one,
two three. We didn't know till much later. We didn't
(22:49):
know till Senator Diane Feinstein's report. We didn't know till
Seymour Hershe's reporting in the New Yorker. This is happening
in plain sight. We have known since day one. We
didn't even need kill Albrego Garcia's report. We saw the
video that the Trump administration put out. Remember they put
out a video to music showing off their torture and
beating enforcible shavings of innocent men sent to SEACOD. Now
(23:11):
we have this forty page amendment with the details in it.
I think history will judge what those of us who
know about it and saw did in this moment.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
This is a scandal.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
The Democrats in Congress should be screaming about from the rooftops,
which every Democrat who wants to be president in twenty
twenty eight should be talking about. The Trump administration took
a bunch of people in the United States, including possibly
legal residents. We don't know because they haven't told us
who went and sent them to a foreign gulag to
be tortured, and refused to bring them back, including when
the court said.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Send them back. That is a crime.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
That is a scandal, and I think Americans need to
stop thinking it can't happen here.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
We're not like those other countries.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
The descriptions in this report, in this amendment are the
kind of descriptions you would read about from a North
Korean prison, an Iranian prison, a Russian prison.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
Let's stop pretending we don't do what everyone else does.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
Well, So this is something that Ryan and I actually
debated a little bit yesterday, and we can put D two.
This is a vo of Alligator Alcatraz flooding on the screen.
Speaker 7 (24:06):
So this.
Speaker 8 (24:09):
Engineering marvel that was constructed very quickly in the middle
of the Everglades is already flooding. Probably knows prize to
anybody who would conceive of what it might look like
after you throw up a massive three thousand bud facility
in the Everglades in like a week's time. And Ryan
raised the point that hurricane season could be especially devastating
to people who are kept there in the future. So
(24:33):
three thousand beds, they want to increase that to five
thousand beds, and they just got an infusion of funding
for immigration enforcement. But Maddie, I think the public hates
the Seacott stuff. I think most of the public hates
the Seacott stuff because it feels profoundly un American. I
think it's a blind spot for the Trump administration that
gets very online and you know, sort of falls for
(24:56):
the appeal of the memes on these types of things.
I think the Trump administration has sort of understood that,
which is why they didn't send another group of people
to Seacott, at least not yet on the political front. So,
I guess I'm curious what you make of Alligator Alcatraz,
which you mentioned christinoam like cosplaying. Honestly, I feel like it.
(25:20):
I think we need to take it seriously. I do
feel like the Trump administration likes to larp as Bucelli.
I don't think it's popular, but I don't foresee Alligator
Alcatraz looking like Seacott. That does mean I don't think
we should take the threat of that seriously. But I'm
curious what you expect to see from the facility in
the next several months as they start filling it.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
The just on the lopping point, I should also point
out that when the history books are written about this
period and about the torture Now Salvador, you will have
a series of Republican members of Congress who went to
El Salvador, stood outside prison cell, said what a.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Great place this is. Christineom Christina led the charts.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
She stood in front of a cell full of dozens
and dozens of men would shaved heads, lined up for
a photo op, many of those men who have been tortured,
as we now know. And this is what the American
guvernment was part of, which is what I'm saying. It's
worse in many ways than Abu Gray because the Bush administration,
Cheney and Ashcroft, didn't go and do.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Photo ops at Abu Gray.
Speaker 7 (26:11):
They tried to keep it.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
They tried to keep it hidden.
Speaker 6 (26:14):
And this administration, as usual, the cruelty is the point
to borrow Adam Seller's line. So yes, and I think, look,
whether you call it alligator, alcarez, whatever stupid name these
people give to their concentration cabs. Even already, ice detention
facilities were overcrowded. We were hearing reports about abuse. We're
hearing stories about people not eating for days, not having beds,
sleeping on the floor, no blankets, all sorts of abuse.
(26:37):
Nine to one one calls from ice detention centers with
people collapsing that we had a death I believe of
a Cuban American man this week or a Cuban man
this week. I don't know what a stayed as well.
I can't remember who knows what this administration, what the
states of any.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Many Just to underline that, because I was just in
Miami and they were talking about this down there a lot.
He was a seventy five year old man who had
been in the United States since nineteen sixty five, since
the age of fifteen, So he fled what they will
call in Miami the Castro dictatorship, which I mean kind
(27:09):
of was dictator.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
Yeah, we're glad to have you guys on the record.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Here we go that.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
He so he'd been here for sixty years now, a
lot of people in Miami because it's its cultural nature.
Like maybe he never became a citizen. I don't know,
Like it's quite possibly he didn't. He easily could have.
If you've been here since nineteen sixty five as a Cuban,
you could have become a citizen.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
But just in Miami, like a lot of people didn't.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
He died in ICED attention, and Tom Homan responded, well,
you know, bad things.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
In every prison.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
People don't in every prison.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
But we're saving so many lives with ICE anyway, So
I just wanted to ice prisons.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
ICE prisons in particular are overcrowded. We know now we
have this new budget. We have this budget bill that's
gone through, giving them more money than most than a
lot of foreign militaries.
Speaker 5 (27:56):
There's a lot of people appointed to that.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
I believe they're going to be I believe they're gonna
have half the levels of personalnel as the United States
Marine Corps when all this sudden and done, if this
bill goes through. So they're getting lots of money for
fancy new centers and troops. But what I would say
is even already the overcrowding is insane. The conditions are horrific.
You mentioned the elderly Cuban man. There was an Iranian
woman who's been here fifty years. She came in nineteen
(28:19):
seventy nine her family and came to visit the United States,
and the revolution happened and they stayed and she never
got citizenship and they are now deputshake. I think they
got her in her front yard while she was gardening,
this dangerous threat, this elderly Iranian woman. So these are
kind of ridiculous stories coming out from the ICE detentions.
But the conditions, to go back to Emily's question, are horrific.
I don't think even if they get thirty seven billion
dollars from this bill, that they're somehow going to build
(28:41):
nicer facilities.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
It's not about lack of resources.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
The reason people are being abused in detention is not
because they lack resources. That's part of it, but it's
also because the cruelty is the point. They don't see
these people as fully human beings. They don't see these
people as deserving of right. You've heard United States senators
have gone on live television and said, no, foreigners don't
get you process. Foreigns aren't covered by the Constitution. This
is the kind of ridiculous shit that is said by
(29:05):
people with law degrees serving in the United States Senate,
which is obviously nonsense. Everyone gets due process. So that
is the fundamental problem. It's not about resources, it's not
about where you locate your concentration camp. It's about the
fundamental mindset of Tom Homan and Stephen Miller and Donald Trump,
which is that these people are not fully human.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
These people are not people deserving of rights.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
These people need to be punished to send a message,
and these people need to.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
Be out of here. And I think that is the
key point that Ryan mentioned. Miami.
Speaker 6 (29:31):
A bunch of Republicans in Florida members of the House
are saying, well, come on, can you tone it down
a bit because they're feeling some backlash from their constituents
who are like, you know, the leoparded, what's the face
the face eating leopard party meme?
Speaker 5 (29:42):
Like, I didn't know they'd come for my.
Speaker 8 (29:43):
Friends, Manny, I know you have to run. So thank
you so much for sticking around for a second segment.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
We appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Thank you guys, of course, Zoron Mom Donnie held a
press conference to respond to President Trump's threat that he
was going to do also of things to him, including
round him up, to port him jailum, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Here's Mom, Donnie.
Speaker 11 (30:06):
Yesterday, Donald Trump said that I should be arrested. He
said that I should be deported. He said that I
should be denaturalized. And he said those things about me,
someone who stands to be the first immigrant mayor of
this city in generation, someone who would also be the
(30:28):
first Muslim in the first South Asian mayor in this
city's history, less so because of who I am, because
of where I come from, because of how I look
or how I speak, and more so because he wants
to distract from what I fight for. I fight for
working people. I fight for the very people that have
been priced out of this city. And I fight for
the same people that he said he was fighting for.
(30:50):
This is the same president who ran on a campaign
of cheaper groceries, who ran on a campaign about easing
a suffocating cost of living crisis, And ultimately, it is
easier for him to fan the flames of division than
to acknowledge the ways in which he has betrayed those
working class Americans, not just in the city, but across
this country and the ways in which he continues to
betray them, because we know that he would rather speak
(31:11):
about me than speak about the legislation that he is
shepherding through Washington, DC, legislation that will quite literally take
healthcare away from Americans, legislation that will steal food from
the Hungary, legislation that looks to build upon one of
the largest transfers of wealth we've seen in recent history
in his first administration, and do it once again for
(31:31):
the very Americans who already have enough.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
We should be.
Speaker 11 (31:35):
Fighting for those that do not have what they need
to live a dignified life. That is what I will do,
and I am thankful to have the protection and to
have the support of so many New Yorkers who have
stood up and set how unacceptable this is, including our governor,
including members of the labor movement. And ultimately, what I
fear for is that if this is what Donald Trump
(31:57):
and his administration feel comfortable about saying about the Democratic
nominee for the mayor of New York City, imagine what
they feel comfortable saying and doing about immigrants whose names
they don't even know.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
So also yesterday, and we can put up this element
here President Trump's Homeland Security Advisory Council, which is a
group that includes such luminaries as Bo Didel who is
the founder of Bikers for Trump, and Rudy Giuliani, who
is a believer or not the former mayor of New
York once in his life, as well as some other
(32:28):
folks they met, and they quickly decided that the main
thing the Homeland Security Advisory Council needed to focus its
meeting on was what they're going to do about zoron
Mam Donnie and talking about the Homeland Security Department having
authorities that haven't been used in the past that maybe.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Need to look into that.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So before we get into the actual threats on Mom Donnie,
Emily and I wanted to talk about his response to it,
because I think we both think that this is an
expression of a populist democratic party that could exist that
does not exist, but these are the kind of green
shoots of it popping up, and that if it did exist,
it would represent a genuinely interesting development on the scene
(33:10):
and would be kind of a party that was actually
worth working people respecting and voting for, which is stunning
because it's happening at a time when the Democratic Party
could not be at its lowest.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
We saw when we were here yesterday. We saw a
preview of mom Donnie's strategy towards this when he just
first put out his statement after Trump made his comments
and pivoted, and we talked about that yesterday, how he
pivoted to basically class warfare. Did the same thing right here.
He pivoted not to I shouldn't say class warfare, because
(33:45):
I think that diminishes it. He pivoted to affordability. And
it's like, this is what you do if you realize
your average voter isn't Liz Cheney. This is how you
run a campaign where you're going after Trump, but you're
not fully taking Trump's bait. And I think it it's
genuinely a pretty interesting development for Democrats that they now
have a kind of textbook example of how.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
To do the thing right.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
It's not backing down on the initial charge. It's not
apologizing for any of the culture war stuff Trump is
doing here. It's pushing back on that, but then it's
moving and saying the reason you're doing this is because
you're a billionaire that doesn't care about people and you
just want to distract from the fact that you're stealing
everybody's medicaid and that you promise to run on making
(34:28):
groceres cheaper and you're not doing it. It's really interesting
because the twenty seventeen, you know, the first term version
of Democrats against Trump, would have just fully seized on
the culture war aspect of it and said Donald Trump
is a bigot, he's a xenophobe, we are a nation
(34:49):
of immigrants, and he doesn't back away from all of that. Rhetorically,
he believes all of those things, but that's not really
where he puts his energy.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
But don't your response and what you're saying is that
twenty seven because I think this is so true and
easily Yeah, I feel like that's really what everyone would
have done. Like the conventional wisdom is that maybe you
throw in a couple of lines about grocery prices and
medicaid and snap, but actually you spend the bulk of
your response talking about how you are going to be
(35:17):
the first missile mayor of New York City and how
that's what scares Donald Trump. He's scared of brown people,
he's scared of change. I think that's totally true if
we put that in the time machine. If we put
mont Donnie in a time machine and say he was
running in twenty seventeen, maybe he would have been sparner
about it.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
But the strategists on the.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
Left would not have.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, they would not have.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
And I think it's probably it's tied up in the
intrademocratic fight that happened at the time where Bernie Sanders had,
you know, just come off this very bitter primary, where
a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters were still even blaming
Bernie Sanders for the fact that Trump was in at all.
And anybody who said that Donald Trump supporters had quote
(36:04):
unquote economic anxiety, yes, was that was said to be
code for the real reason that they've supported Trump, which
is their their racism and their homophobia and their bigotry
and on and on and so, because that was the case,
if Democrats shied away from talking about economic anxiety because
(36:24):
they were afraid that they would then like, oh, look
at you, you racist much Mamdani instead takes Trump at
his word and says, if you notice in that clip
he says Trump ran on these things, people voted for him.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
The point he's making is people voted.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
For Trump because he promised he was going to lower
grocery prices. He was going to make the city more
affordable and fill their lives with some dignity, make their
lives better.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
That's what Trump said he was going to do.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
And he's talking to Trump supporters and saying he's not
doing that.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
What is he doing?
Speaker 3 (36:58):
He's getting you all riled up about me when all
I'm trying to do is lower grocery prices.
Speaker 8 (37:05):
I revisited this last week when we talked to Zoron
in what.
Speaker 7 (37:12):
Was that December?
Speaker 4 (37:13):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 7 (37:15):
Yeah, it was November December.
Speaker 8 (37:16):
Actually, you know what, I think it was November because
he was going to say told.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
He was interviewing the Trump people.
Speaker 7 (37:22):
Yeah, yeah, he did. He sort of followed Alexander A.
Speaker 8 (37:25):
Kazo Cortez's lead and went out into I think he
told this to the Bronx and he was in Queen's
he was interviewing people, talking to them, trying to pitch
himself to Trump voters, and he said the number one
thing they were concerned about was the price of groceries.
They feel like they have less in their bank accounts than.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
They used to.
Speaker 8 (37:43):
And that's again, it's so obvious. But twenty seventeen you
just couldn't make that argument period, which.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Is weird because of course you could, but like you could,
just the structures of the Democratic Party at the time
were just not allowing the party there was on And
also they were so thoroughly rewarded by the media for
leaning into the culture war.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Yes, yes, and rewarded.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
By a significant chunk of their voters. Doesn't mean those
voters wouldn't also have been with them on other stuff. Now,
inflation was not what it was in twenty seventeen, like
we had you know, one percent inflation since basically the
financial crisis, so you know, the context is actually different now.
(38:31):
The economy is stunk, and that's why Trump won, I
think in twenty sixteen. But it wasn't exactly prices. It
was wages and joblessness which was slowly getting you know,
had gradually come back from the financial crisis, but not
but took so long, and people were mined in debt
and student teds.
Speaker 8 (38:47):
So opioid crisis had plenty of local economy is.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Going on, So I think Democratic base would have been
there for it. But Democrats didn't need to go there
because they would get they would get donations, they get crowds,
and they would get fawning me media coverage for pointing
out what a big at Trump was, and so they
didn't need to go and be like, look, he actually
said he was going to run on all these things
to make your life better, and he's not doing that.
(39:12):
They didn't didn't want to take it seriously. They didn't
want to take seriously the idea that he actually.
Speaker 8 (39:16):
Ran on that stuff because they thought that the silver
bullet was their own cultural arguments against Trump, and it wasn't.
That wasn't enough to persuade voters who have always baked
into their calculation. And this is what the media doesn't
understand because the media is pretty friendly with a lot
of politicians.
Speaker 7 (39:32):
Other voters understand that.
Speaker 8 (39:34):
Politicians are probably bad people, right like, they know that
you're not convincing people to stop supporting Trump by saying
he's a bad guy. That's not like a slam dunk
own on a Trump supporter. They actually are making a
calculated decision that he was going to disrupt the system.
And if you're not competing on that field, you're not
(39:54):
competing at all. You're arguing totally past what you could
possibly persuade people on yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
And I think also the party's donors are ambivalent about
any class first messaging.
Speaker 7 (40:07):
Yeah, yeah, of course that.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
They're like, eh, like, can we do some of the
other stuff. Were you at all or welcome?
Speaker 8 (40:16):
When they did the asterisk after every mention of Trump. Yeah,
I look back in that and I remember it said
like Donald Trump is a racist, enophobic, chemophobic bigot and
something like that, and every mention of Trump it had
an asterisk and said that. I was like, I mean,
many people believe all of that is true. I mean,
you can make arguments about all of that, but it's
not persuasive. It actually distracts. I don't know, we don't
(40:38):
have to relitigate that. But it was a good example
of the approach at the time.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, I mean, and I think if we went back
and looked at it, it didn't. I don't think it
had any class messaging in it because, like you could
have led with.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Donald Trump is a billionaire blah blah, right, But.
Speaker 7 (40:57):
I think the only way that union busting.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Right only rips off everyone who's ever worked for him.
I think the only way huff Post was able to
get away with that, And yeah, I was, I was
there and involved with it at the time, like journalistically
was because it it would feel more part as than
if it was class in a way mm hmm, like
(41:20):
because what it was doing was pointing to their universal
American values, which are, you know, equality, justice, we treat
all people with dignity, civil rights like at least at
that time, Yeah, everyone believed in the civil rights movement,
like left to far right like that. The civil not
(41:41):
not far right, but left to right civil rights movement
was seen as like a very good thing that was
that was brought to people who fought for justice, brought
by people who were.
Speaker 8 (41:50):
Charlie Kirk had not yet discovered Martin Luther King Jr.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah, yeah, right, They hadn't gone down different rabbit holes
and come up with theories and and so it appealed
to these universal values, whereas if you say, he's a billionaire,
he wants to rip people off, like that feels that's
us against them. That's that's more partisan, in not in
a party sense, but in a.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
We are.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
There's just fundamental disagreements here that we're not going to
win by persuasion.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
We're going to just have to beat the one percent.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
We're just like or the one percent is going to
have to beat us, like this is a fight over
something that makes sense, and so then as journalists that
that feels like you're now engaging in the you're in
that fight in a way where if you're just upholding
universal values, like when the Washing Post says democracy dies
in darkness, like they can say that and not feel
(42:51):
partisan because ye, of course we're all for democracy and
we're all for transparency and we're all against darkness. When
you say, you know, the one percent are ripping us all.
Speaker 7 (43:06):
Off, I don't think your owners will love it.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yeah, and the point one percent of ripping the one percent.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Off, yeah yeah, then that feels now you're tangling.
Speaker 8 (43:19):
Which is also the massive like unanswered question to the
extent that Democrats are able to replicate if they want
to win, if they put power above everything else, and
that's not all of them, you know, it's some like
some Republicans have genuine ideological values that they want to advance.
But if they just want to win, do they replicate
the Mom Donnie campaign in congressional races in the midterms,
(43:42):
for example, in gubernatorial races where you learn from.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Him and Democrats made affordability the thing that was associated
with them.
Speaker 8 (43:50):
Right, but they're already getting hammered for what. There are
already Republicans running ads comparing like random DEM candidates. I
forget who the first one I saw was, but like
random D candidates to mom Donnie. I think Glenn Younkin
said it about the gubernatorial nominee in Virginia, Stanberger, right.
Speaker 4 (44:07):
Exactly, exactly real, Mom Donnie.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
It's suicidal and part of Democrats because the question is,
how do you define what he stands for to the
national public before you're then linked with him. And so
if the national public is like, oh, yeah, Mom Donnie,
this guy who like ran to make groceries cheaper in
New York, then when Republicans are like, spamburger is nothing
(44:32):
but another Mom Donnie, people are like, oh cool, so
she's also going to make groceries cheaper in Virginia. But
if Republicans are all saying that he's a Sharia law
loving jihadist, and then Democrats are also saying that they
have deep concerns about his use of the word global jihadis,
and then she and then cures in jail Brennapp apologizes
(44:53):
because he never said that, but like that, they have
all these concerns about him. Right, so all the leading
Democrats still not endorsed him, became Jefferies, Chuck Schumer, Jello Brand.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
And it's Swosey just put Tom Sposey.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Long just had a op ed in the New York
Times about how bad he is. And so if Republicans
are saying he's really awful and like the worst and
basically a terrorist, and Democrats are saying, the leading Democrats
are saying, yeah, he's kind of bad, He's not that bad,
Like Republicans are over the top and then bigoted in
(45:29):
the way they're talking about him.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
But I do have a lot of concerns about him.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Then nationally, if you're a voter, you're like, oh, this
guy seems pretty concerning. You have to actually like engage
with him or immedia that covers him honestly to get
the accurate impression.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
And there aren't enough people that do that.
Speaker 8 (45:46):
Yeah, I mean this is from a cure like just
a purely cynical perspective, but Republicans are basically able to
do this. With Nancy Pelosi back in twenty ten, socialist
Nancy Pelosi back in twenty ten, it's when they put
enough money behind it and enough like what's the right
word for it, craft into like carvilion public relations efforts
(46:07):
into it.
Speaker 7 (46:08):
You can.
Speaker 8 (46:09):
It's one of the scary things about politics meediing in general,
but you can in a red state pretty easily capitalize
on a mom Donnie narrative. It doesn't mean that mom
Donnie is in any way a net drag on the
Democratic Party, but I think it'll probably work for them
in red states.
Speaker 7 (46:25):
Not so much of Virginia though.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
But yeah, I think if Democrats wanted to like avoid
this problem, yeah, they would say, of course I support
I'm Donnie and it's call to make groceries cheaper.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
But they just can't do that.
Speaker 8 (46:40):
Just the guy wants to make I don't agree with
him on everything, but I sure as I'll agree with
him making groceries cheaper.
Speaker 7 (46:47):
For advice here, I mean, we're always.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Just giving it out and nobody takes it.
Speaker 7 (46:50):
Yeah, all right, Ryan, let's move on.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
To the ditty tri Yes, so, uh, Sean ditty Collms
is not walking out of the courthouse a freeman, but
he thought he might for a second, so he was acquitted.
Speaker 4 (47:05):
We could put this first element up on the screen.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
He was quitted on the most serious charges, the racketeering
charge and the and the sex trafficking charges. But he
did get found guilty on two counts of transporting prostitutes.
He was not he did not get hit with any
domestic violence charges because they were outside the statute of limitations, right,
And so did he collapse to the floor and like
(47:32):
praying do we have that? Do we have that image
of him like praying? Seat there yet thanking a thank
to the jurors, and then it did it did seem
like he felt like he was about to get out,
and the judge said no, interestingly cited the domestic violence
that was in the case as the reason why she
was not giving bail before sentencing or he cheer.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
He the judge the judge, I didn't watch enough of
the case.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Which is interesting because clearly he was guilty, it's on video,
but he was not tried for it. So it's this
gray area where bail and accusations can have an interplay
that leads to you being behind chart, behind behind bars.
But clearly a jury felt that it was not a conspiracy.
(48:20):
And what what did he had argued or did he's
lawyers had argued, is that yes, there was a plan
to have these freak offs.
Speaker 5 (48:29):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
And they were organized, and in that sense, there was
a conspiracy because he would tell, hey, you do the drugs,
you do the.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
Baby oil, you bring the women.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
And he had and he had an overarching kind of
leverage campaign that he would use with women where some
would have beginning ten thousand a month and child support others,
others would have an emotional connection others.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
You know, there's different various ways that he got them involved.
Plus some you know, just.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
According to them and seems credible fear of violence. So
there are all these pieces. But he made this they
made this kind of loophole argument almost that the other
people were not partners in a conspiracy. There were just
his flunkies who he paid to do work, and that
if you could use Rico for this, you could use
(49:21):
Rico for anything where you didn't, you know, single handedly
carry out every aspect of the crime, like you know,
if you go and buy a handgun and then commit
a crime with.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
It, like.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
And it was just a business transaction with the gun owner,
like did you conspire with the gun owner even if
the gun owner knew what you're gonna do? That would
be and the point is that would be a different
crime like that, that's the underlying crime, but layering conspiracy
on top of it doesn't get you there. That That
is my guess at trying to get into the jurors mindset.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
What what did you think of the response?
Speaker 7 (50:02):
Yeah, I mean I think that.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
What's your response to the jury's response?
Speaker 7 (50:05):
No, I think that's right.
Speaker 8 (50:07):
I think the rico is starting to look like an
over prosecution. Bundling everything into a rico is starting to
look like a real mistake.
Speaker 7 (50:15):
And you will be.
Speaker 8 (50:16):
Shocked to learn that one of the leading prosecutors on
this case is Marine Comy, who is James Commey's daughter.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
Amazing.
Speaker 8 (50:23):
Yeah, it's just wild stuff, but it looks like a
really overconfident prosecution team. To be clear, he could end
up with twenty years in prison, so he was denied bail.
He has to stay in prison until his sentencing, which
is on October third, so he's still got a ways
to go. But he could still also get twenty.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Years, right, it's highly probably unlikely.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
Right.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
So each there's two charges and their ten years maximum. Right,
So if they were served one after the other and
both the maximum, then he could get twenty years.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
Right, But.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
This is when sentence and guidelines come in and you
have to kind of set aside who he is and
what we know about the case. And pretty sure he's
the first time offender. Does he have any other charges
from before?
Speaker 7 (51:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (51:13):
Does he? What does he have?
Speaker 8 (51:15):
He was? I mean, he's been involved in so many things.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
Which he's got a bunch of lawsuits.
Speaker 8 (51:21):
Well, there was the I'm trying to remember whether he
got charged.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
For it, but there was Michael j Lo mac is
already screened mac get.
Speaker 8 (51:28):
Yeah, send this to us, producer back. But there was
the j Lo shooting. There was the nightclub like fire
that people died in that he was implicated in.
Speaker 4 (51:37):
Right, did he catch charges on any of that thing?
Speaker 8 (51:39):
Right?
Speaker 7 (51:39):
That's a good question.
Speaker 8 (51:40):
He's, by the way, he is fifty five, So if
he gets twenty years and serves out twenty years, he'll
be an old man before he.
Speaker 7 (51:46):
Gets out of prison.
Speaker 4 (51:46):
But my guess is that he definitely will not serve
all twenty years. I don't think. I don't think even close.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Even now, there's some indication from the fact that he
was denied bail here that the judge is going to
go as hard as they feel like they can get
away with.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
But I'd be very surprised.
Speaker 8 (52:07):
I think he was acquitted of murder in the first
I think there was like a big if I'm remember incorrectly,
there was a big case in the nightclub murder situation.
This would have been around two thousand and I want
to say he was acquitted of that. Actually, let's take
a listen to Megan Kelly's reaction. Followed the case very
(52:28):
closely and had some legal experts on when the news
came down, and go ahead and take a look at
this next club.
Speaker 12 (52:34):
Combs shook his head vigorously and put his hands together
in prayer. Oh, it's all just so chummy inside the
courtroom for this disgusting pervert female abuser who I can't
believe is about j Romar Streets. Again, I'm sorry, I'm
disgusted by this verdict. This is fucking ridiculous. I just
find it absolutely outrageous the amount of crime that this
(52:55):
guy just got away with. I believe he committed arson.
He definitely battered Cassie. He Jane too. The statute of
limitations for battery in Los Angeles, California is one year
one year, So if they didn't charge him for battery
within one year, and they couldn't because he bought the
tape and it remained hidden thanks to those security guards
out there. Then they could never charge him with that. Again,
(53:18):
there's no question he dragged her back into that hotel room.
Why wasn't that kidnapping? They only talked about the kidnapping
of Capricorn Clark, who was his sort of main assistant,
because she said he grabbed her and made her go
with him over to kid Cutty's house. There's no question
he broke into kid Cutty's house in my view, and
that he opened up the Christmas presidents and locked the
(53:40):
door in and made a thread. There's no question in
my mind he was behind the arson of kid Cutty's car.
And there was proof, plenty of proof to prove that.
Speaker 10 (53:49):
No.
Speaker 12 (53:49):
Okay, there was female fingerprints they found on that, the
firebomb that was left there, the Molotov cocktail, and the
prosecution said, there's no question he didn't do it himself.
But he said I'm going to bomb kid Cutty's car.
It's in writing. Cassie Ventura emailed her mother saying, oh
my god, he's threatening to bomb his car. And two
weeks later it got bombed.
Speaker 5 (54:08):
Oh gee, it was just some.
Speaker 12 (54:09):
Third party who also had it's This is just like
the proof was there, the beatings, the threats that if
they didn't go back into those rooms and get off
with these male escorts, that they were going to get beaten.
The testimony from that Daniel Phillip, who was the male
escort who heard Colmb's abusing Cassie behind the door and
she was screaming, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, as he heard
(54:30):
him slapping her. Get back out there. She came back out,
she was shaking. She got back into the escort's lap,
physically shaking. She was so scared to the point where
that guy couldn't perform sexually because this was so horrifying
to him. What in the actual f went on in there?
Speaker 8 (54:47):
Yeah, so I feel like that's probably the general public's reaction.
It just baffling, and it seems ran like the prosecution
just I mean, in that clip, at least one of
the legal experts goes on to kind of blame the jury.
But I would think that the onus for the failure
here asked to lie with the prosecution.
Speaker 3 (55:07):
Yeah, sure, I mean, the they it's very hard to
lose a federal case. Like it's like they've their conviction
rate is absolutely through the roof, and.
Speaker 4 (55:15):
So yeah, they they clearly own the blame for this,
you know.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
And what we didn't cover this trial a whole bunch,
but whenever we did and would I would look into it.
I remember, you know, I would think, like they're really
leaning into the emotional aspect of this. You know, how
poorly he treated Cassie and and these other women, and
how just what an absolutely like repulsive lifestyle he was
(55:41):
leading using violence and emotional manipulation to you know, pull
these multi day freak coughs off.
Speaker 4 (55:50):
And but I remember thinking every time, like people, but
where where what are the crimes here? M M.
Speaker 7 (55:58):
Was obvious?
Speaker 3 (56:01):
Yes, the violence, yeah, but then that's out of the
statute of limitations, right, the drugs no charge, prostitution convicted,
But like beyond that, like where's the I and trafficking
is an interesting like yeah concept and charge. It's like
it's interesting to get if you pay someone, if you
(56:23):
can pay a prostitute to get in a car, yeah,
and then go to go to a hotel.
Speaker 4 (56:27):
For a freak cough? Did you traffic them there?
Speaker 8 (56:29):
Right?
Speaker 7 (56:30):
Right?
Speaker 4 (56:30):
And it's like, what does that mean?
Speaker 8 (56:33):
Yeah, No, I mean that's a really good point. It's
and so I guess partially another thing is not The.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Jury was like, that's not trafficking, that's that's paying a prostitute.
Speaker 8 (56:41):
And it's not necessarily easy for the prosecution then to
build a case based on all and I think a
lot of it also is him. So he's alleged to
have drugged people many many times.
Speaker 4 (56:50):
Which would be a crime if they didn't charge.
Speaker 8 (56:52):
That, right, And I think because it looks like they
were overconfident started bundling things into the Rico case, thinking.
Speaker 7 (56:58):
That they had him right on racketeering because.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
He clearly conspired to organize these freak costs. But the
jury was like, not really illegal, except that most of
the pieces within it are actually illegal right within it.
Speaker 8 (57:13):
Yes, And so yeah, we were just looking up his
criminal history.
Speaker 7 (57:18):
He has been charged many many times.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
He was he never got charged for the nine people dying.
He should have been charged with some type of negligence there.
Speaker 7 (57:25):
It's a pretty if.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
Everybody probably knows about this case.
Speaker 3 (57:29):
This there was a stampede that a at a event
that he put on. It's where he knew ninety I've
got to hear December ninety one, where he knew that
too many people were there, didn't care, wanted too many
people to be there for the spectacle. Nine people end
up dying, doesn't get charged for that. He got convicted
(57:50):
nineteen ninety six, convicted of criminal mischief for threatening a
photographer with a gun.
Speaker 4 (57:55):
So that's a conviction. That's something that the judge can
point to.
Speaker 8 (57:58):
That's where he's that's a pretty easy denial of bail predicate, right.
Speaker 3 (58:03):
And then in ninety nine, Combs in his bodyguards are
charged with attacking this is PBS I'm reading from, or
attacking Interscope Records, music music executive over dispute over music video.
He was sentenced to anger and anger management. Course didn't work,
but that's at least that's something on the record that
(58:26):
the judge can then point to. December ninety nine, he's
arrested on gun possession charges for that nightclub shooting that
you mentioned, where Jennifer Lopez.
Speaker 7 (58:38):
Was in the car.
Speaker 4 (58:39):
Three people got wounded.
Speaker 8 (58:40):
A woman still says that Diddy is the one who
shot her, right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:43):
Yeah, there are people that say that he was shooting
and that's that he shot her. He was later charged
with offering his driver fifty grand to claim ownership of
the nine millimeter that was found in the car. We
know from this trial that him offering to pay people
(59:04):
to get out of trouble is something that he does,
so that's a quite credible charge there. However, he was
then acquitted of all charges. Well, Shine took the took
the fall for that. So the judge, can you point
to the arrest, but you're not supposed to. If you're
arrested and convicted, you're not. That's not really supposed to
(59:25):
factor into your sentencing because you're supposed to have been
found Like innocent is supposed to mean innocent doesn't always
mean that, but that's how that's what's supposed to mean.
Then he got arrested in twenty fifteen. He looks like
he got in a fight at a UCLA game where
his son was playing football, but the charges were dropped.
Speaker 8 (59:46):
This is why fifty cent referred to him yesterday as
the gay John Gotti.
Speaker 4 (59:49):
Nothing's sticking to him, Teon Teflon Diddy, Yeah, it's all
that baby oil.
Speaker 7 (59:56):
Yes, he charges slippery, yeah.
Speaker 4 (59:58):
Slip right off.
Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
And then these charges so he has not zero criminal record.
He has a very long criminal record, most of it
ending with acquittals or like misdemeanor stuff. So that's why
it's going to be a real stretch for the judge
to hit him with the maximum. And even if she does,
(01:00:21):
he'll appeal this, so I expect he'll be walking free
in a matter of several years.
Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Five to ten max.
Speaker 7 (01:00:29):
Unbelievable. Well, on that note, Ryan.
Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
And a lot of people took a lot of risks
coming forward, come forward, Yeah, that they are suffering greatly
right now.
Speaker 7 (01:00:40):
Yeah, Oh my gosh. The trial was just awful.
Speaker 10 (01:00:43):
It was.
Speaker 7 (01:00:43):
It was one of those ones.
Speaker 8 (01:00:44):
It was just hard to follow because Cassie was testifying
about all this while she was pregnant. It was just
a really really really dark trial. And I forget I
want to say.
Speaker 7 (01:00:54):
This was on Hulu.
Speaker 8 (01:00:55):
Someone did a fantastic documentary into the sort of influences
emotion on that sort of forged did he like?
Speaker 7 (01:01:03):
How did he become who he became?
Speaker 8 (01:01:05):
And it is just incredibly sad and dark. So I
hope that there's at least some closure for people who
suffered from this.
Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
And I was saying yesterday I actually liked doing the
show without the laptop here because fewer distractions.
Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
On the other hand, when it comes to something.
Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
I really don't remember, which is like Diddy's criminal record,
actually helpful, not.
Speaker 7 (01:01:26):
At the top of your mind to have it here.
Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Yeah, I knew it'd been in and out of trouble,
but yeah, as so my memory actually served mostly correct
that he's basically gotten out of all the jams that
he's been in.
Speaker 7 (01:01:38):
Yeah, but there's so many of them, a lot.
Speaker 8 (01:01:40):
I think that's when you look it up, you're just like,
holy smoked, it is.
Speaker 7 (01:01:43):
It's gotty esque.
Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Yes, it is so no Friday show, It's July fourth,
will be independent of our laptops in the morning, Happy independence.
Say to everybody, I hope you enjoy the fireworks or
a barbecue or whatever you're up to.
Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
Yeah, we'll be back on somebody will be back on Monday.
Speaker 8 (01:02:00):
Yeah, I think Crystal and Soccer back. There you go,
so great news, get get rid of us.
Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
Yeah we promised they'll be here.
Speaker 8 (01:02:06):
Yeah, well, no, we don't, can't make promise.
Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
They're gonna try very hard they will be Yeah.
Speaker 7 (01:02:11):
Well maybe they'll get caught up in the system like
we did.
Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
There you go, all right, all right, see you guys.
Then
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