Ryan, Emily, and Griffin discuss the interview between Adam Friedland and Ritchie Torres, then we look at the Taylor Lorenz WIRED article on influencers being paid through an organization called Chorus. Then we speak with Dr. Mohammed Khaleel, a spine surgeon who just returned from his third trip to Gaza.
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Episode Transcript
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All right, Friday show, how are we doing, Ryan and
Emily Happy Labor Day weekend? Yes, us working on the
weekend comrades. We're seizing the means of the Breaking Points here.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
We're going to want to take a ten percent stake.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
In ooh hmmm, uh what is a Was it black
rifle coffee that was really big in the studio for
a minute there, that's pretty good. There was two of
free black rifle coffee.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
It was it was out of control. Yeah, sccer would
love Yeah, so I don't consider keeping.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Actually it would be Lucy, Lucy Gum something like Lucy.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
Yeah, Lucy.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I like Lucy, but Lucy doesn't ship to California for
some reason.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
They're tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
They're tightening, tightening down here in Gavin Neiscumb's California.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
All Right, we got a lot to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We've got Adam Friedland versus Richie Torres, the matchup everyone
has been waiting for. We've got an interview with Gaza doctor,
doctor Mohammad Khalil. We've got a taylor of the Wren's article,
and much much more. But why don't we get right
into it here? Uh the Adam Friedland Show. He is
a podcast comedian and he recently had Congressman Richie Torres
(01:49):
on to discuss many topics, including Israel, Gaza.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Let's take a listen, the.
Speaker 7 (01:55):
Understanding in our communities that we have to defend Israel.
Speaker 8 (01:59):
But I lived there, and I went to a settlement
at the end of my year there, and I looked
down a hill at.
Speaker 7 (02:08):
A Palestinian village, and I saw how they lived. And
I turned back and I looked at the settlement and
saw how they live.
Speaker 8 (02:13):
And people live in in a world where they're demean
to dehumanized and surveilled constantly by people in this isn't
a gaza, by people in SWAT team outfits with semi
automatic weapons.
Speaker 7 (02:29):
And that's what the world is seeing. And you keep
telling me that the problem is someone's getting yelled at
a restaurant. I'm sorry, please just please.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
Me.
Speaker 8 (02:40):
Saying this to you right now will hurt people in
my own family, Okay, because because this is a very
important thing to us, and the fact that I still
fucking care about being Jewish is embarrassing.
Speaker 7 (02:50):
I should just be a guy. But but it, but
this is feels like a stain on our history, and
it feels like it's changed what being Jewish is. Because
what being Jewish is is it Israel. Judas music existed
for four thousand years. This is a country for seventy
five years. I want to feel like I'm here to
(03:12):
be lectured. None, shut up, that's not nice. You can't
talk that way. Why are one set of Jews? But
more for than the other thing.
Speaker 9 (03:19):
No one's saying any you're what.
Speaker 7 (03:22):
Happened you had you went to the beach at at Israel?
What you looked at a rust rat or something? Yeah,
a nice restaurant, like, listen, this.
Speaker 9 (03:33):
Has ever even been to the televis pripary.
Speaker 7 (03:34):
So this is the year twenty twenty five.
Speaker 8 (03:38):
The world is seeing something that looks terrible and it's
being done in my name, and I don't know what
to do.
Speaker 10 (03:45):
But the war began on October seven, No it did it?
Speaker 6 (03:47):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (03:49):
Yes, Rahmas systematically murdered.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And a right that was clip number one. Uh what
are we to make of that?
Speaker 11 (03:58):
Well, the whole conversation is raw and I think just
worth worth watching as it's like cinema almost as Adam
is sitting there kind of begging Richie Torres to reach
(04:18):
him on a human level, to meet him on a
human level, and Richie Torra is just flatly refusing throughout
throughout it, Like Richie just kind of sticks to Wikipedia
level talking points. Hebron massacre in the nineteen twenties, and
(04:38):
and so this juxtaposition is this point counterpoint of like
raw emotion being met with talking points creates this this
just disturbing scene I've seen. And there's also been a
lot of criticism that you've seen from the kind of
more ultra left saying that why are we because this
(05:01):
has gotten so much attention, why are we quote unquote
centering Jewish feelings?
Speaker 9 (05:05):
And to me, that's.
Speaker 11 (05:08):
To me, that's completely unfair criticism because on the one hand,
you have heard a repeated criticism of the American Jewish
community that they haven't spoken up enough to criticize and
to separate themselves from net Yahoo's and Israel's genocide which
is being waged according to Israel.
Speaker 9 (05:28):
On behalf of the.
Speaker 11 (05:30):
Jewish community writ large with the flag that has the
Star of David on it like that is their claim
that they stand for the Jewish people. So if Jewish
people who do not agree with that are silent, that
is affirming. That is used as affirmation that in fact
Israel government does indeed speak for them. So the criticism
(05:52):
has been they're not speaking up enough. So he speaks
up and now saying well, why are you centering Jewish feelings?
Like that to me is utterly inconsistent and unfair. Like
in fact, if a country is waging a genocide and
saying that they're doing it in your name, it's not
just appropriate for you to speak up about it, it's
(06:13):
morally imperative for you to speak up about it, because
if you don't, then it's a silent acknowledgement that that's true.
They are they are doing that. And meanwhile, like Richie
Torres kind of jokingly adopted George Santos's claim in this
interview that he's Jewish.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Yep, he was kind of New Yorkers too, gay Latino.
Speaker 11 (06:38):
New Yorkers who are both Jewish. So the questions of
identity are kind of shot through this like two and yeah,
we can if you want to put up this this next,
this capo tweet, Like to some defenders of Israel, Richie
(06:59):
Torres really is the more Jewish, Like your your ideas
around your approach, is your your your your thoughts as
it relates to this genocide determine whether or not you
are Jewish in the eyes of some people.
Speaker 9 (07:14):
I just want to say, very I can't read you want.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
To read that.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I just want to say, I'll go for it.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, I just won it very quickly.
Speaker 12 (07:21):
That is the exact argument conservatives detest when it is
applied to Clarence Thomas or uh whomever else, right, that
this idea that is you are not you know, people
will use the uncle Tom slur, but it's this idea
that your identity isn't true even though it's it's literally true. Uh,
(07:42):
it isn't true unless you have the ideology baked into it.
So anyway, that's what you're seeing in this this tweet
that Griffin just put up on the screen about.
Speaker 9 (07:54):
It s from the Free Press.
Speaker 6 (07:56):
Here.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The role Friedlin is playing is that of capo the Jew,
articulating and or acting out the wishes conscious or unconscious
of the gentile majority.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
This is literally the world's oldest or second oldest profession.
Speaker 11 (08:13):
But okay, literally it is not like the I don't
even understand like what remotely the guy's talking about there.
And in the post right before that, he used a
bunch of fancy words to call himself hating as well.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, because you know what what Adam says in that clip,
I guess is that he's like, oh, I shouldn't even
have to care about this, and I think he's he
should just be a guy, not a Jewish person, and he,
I think is speaking to like that as a comedian.
Like identity, politics and all that stuff is typically something
that you try to steer away from that it's typically
construed as lame to like lead with your identity when
(08:51):
speaking on a subject. But when it comes to this
subjects specifically, like they're doing it in people like Adam's.
Speaker 12 (08:57):
Name, and Adam kind of crashed out in the interview.
And I don't mean that in a bad way. It
was obviously like no, truly, That's where some people on
the right are who don't know Adam Friedlan are watching
this and saying this was such a win for Richie Torres.
Richie Torres probably thinks it was a win for him too.
(09:19):
He looks like he was calmly sitting there while he
got h badgered and pestered by a mentally unstable comedian.
But if you follow Adam Friedland's work and you know
Richie Torres from other appearances, it was a really I
think it was a really important clash for someone who's
(09:40):
Jewish to relay a lot of Jewish people's feelings about
the conflict. I remember Ryan, when when the campus, when
the encampments were happening, you set up an interview for
us with somebody I think she was a senior at Columbia.
They were doing Shabbat in their tent at the encampment, and.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's just so absurd.
Speaker 12 (10:06):
Were there some anti Semitic hangers on, of course, but
it's so easy to dismiss people with those labels, and
it just falls into the exact same territory that has
the left, I think, dismissing black conservatives, female conservatives. You're
anti woman, you're not a real woman, you're self loathing.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
It's the same thing.
Speaker 12 (10:29):
And I'm saying that just in the context of we're
using an example from the Free Press that would editorialize
against all of those uses, all of those applications of
identity litmus tests.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So in this next clip, you know, we also get
I think this is a clip where Adam kind of
is able to totally break the sort of pro Zionist
talking point facade with some just really simple, straightforward rebuttals
that you don't typically see on any mainstream news or
(11:03):
in many of these conversations with Zionist Let's take a lesson.
Speaker 13 (11:07):
What we're seeing right now is that members of the
Israeli government are talking about clearing that ship out, and Trump,
our president, is talking about putting a fucking jet ski
museum there. And you're that's the reality the far right,
the far what the far right, I'm talking about the
government and the generals that are that are in charge
(11:28):
of Israel.
Speaker 10 (11:29):
The Bengavirs, the Smoltz's of the world.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
That they're the cabinet.
Speaker 10 (11:32):
Yes, and I reject them.
Speaker 7 (11:34):
That's what Hamas is saying they want to do to Israel.
I'm sorry, I mean murdered.
Speaker 10 (11:41):
I mean Hamas murdered thousands of people.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
So there's no.
Speaker 7 (11:45):
So what does that mean that.
Speaker 10 (11:47):
Hamas is a terrorist organization for murdering innocent children and civilians.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
How many civilians have been killed in this war?
Speaker 9 (11:57):
The war is a tragedy, But it have been.
Speaker 8 (12:06):
They've killed journalists, They've killed journalists.
Speaker 10 (12:10):
People, people have been killed on a war. It's been attraged,
killed people waiting for a But you're suggesting that it
is the policy of the Israeli government to murder civilians,
and that's that is a notion that I rejected.
Speaker 7 (12:23):
You got it like this is mad. You got to
be like a human being about this.
Speaker 10 (12:27):
People who are dying in the war, which to me
is a tragedy, because war is a tragedy.
Speaker 8 (12:32):
You feel in your heart that this is what you're doing,
where you're staying is right?
Speaker 10 (12:37):
If Hamas, if you remove Hamas, don't actually think I
told you what I believe.
Speaker 6 (12:41):
Don't tell me what I believe. I've told you what
I believe.
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Why would you believe that?
Speaker 10 (12:44):
Because I because there are people who see the world differently.
I know it's a shock to you.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Why would you believe that?
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, I feel like Adam's almost success. But simultaneously, a
fatal mistake is assuming Richie Torres is a human and
trying to like relate to him on a human level
when that was.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Just never going to work out. But maybe that contrast
and then.
Speaker 11 (13:05):
But that's the that's the strategy to Richie Torres is
a human. Yahoo is the humans are capable of horrific
evil and and we and it's that's something we always
have to remember because if we forget that, then we'll
(13:25):
set back and be a little bit too comfortable, and
then all of a sudden, these humans are doing these
all too human things like we're we're I think we're
a little bit too kind to our idea of humanity.
Speaker 9 (13:35):
Humanity is capable of deep evil.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Total Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 11 (13:41):
But Freedland is a the unique figure in the way
that he engages with with guests and like a let
let's let's pregnant pauses, sit says things.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Bluntly mails you heard it here first?
Speaker 9 (13:54):
Is that what it is?
Speaker 5 (13:56):
No, No, we're arguing about this off air. See ways.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Thing was all just about being awkward and usually awkward
with like her friends, and like she rarely did like
contentious stuff with with you know, strangers.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
George Santos was pretty good.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
But yeah, but any exchange go ahead.
Speaker 12 (14:18):
Well no, I was just gonna say, I mean this,
maybe twenty years ago you would have seen something uncomfortable
like this on the Daily Show maybe or in a
print interview in like a zine. But this is really
new that we see confrontations like this I think playing out,
which is a good thing. I mean, I'm glad that
we are able to watch Friedland versus Torres. I think
(14:41):
it was actually instructive, and.
Speaker 11 (14:44):
The whole thing is just completely crazy because anybody watching
it is like watching him define what a terrorist organization
is as somebody who has quot quote unquote murdered thousands
of people, but which again whatever, and then the obvious
(15:05):
I think the entire audience is like, wait a minute,
that's your definition of a terrorist organization somebody who's killed
thousands of people. By the way, I'm also in October
seventh killed hundreds of civilians. Anybody would call that terrorism.
To kill hundreds of civilians terrorism, But what is it then,
to kill tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of
civilians and to displace two million, and to send suicide
(15:29):
robots through Gadsa city to blow up entire populated blocks.
And so I just it just can't withstand the barest
amount of scrutiny.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
And that's why we don't get a lot of Democrats
to come on our show for that very thing, right there.
Speaker 11 (15:46):
Well, I think it's actually more we don't try that much. Okay, well,
so try, but this is the interviews are often so boring.
The slot in one is good. If we can get
more centrist, good, But like I mean, we've.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Tried buddhaj Edge Newsome, We've tried every single person that
will go on Brian Tyler Cohen or pod Save but
will not come on here.
Speaker 9 (16:08):
They won't come on that reason.
Speaker 11 (16:10):
Why, Well, I think we should start making that public
and like shame them.
Speaker 14 (16:14):
This is the pretty.
Speaker 12 (16:16):
I don't think Richie Torre is expected to have that
interview go any other way.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
I think he's pretty happy with how it went.
Speaker 12 (16:23):
And because he's getting your support from.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
People that we just like. I actually saw a lot
of people on the right.
Speaker 12 (16:31):
It was sort of like an ink blot experience who
definitely don't know the Friedland stick jumping in and being
like Richie Torres looked pretty good in this exchange or whatever,
seeing it as an l for Friedland. And I think
Torres is media savvy enough that he knows that. And
there are a lot of Democrats who are media savvy
enough that they know it's good to go back and
(16:54):
forth with new media podcast now not a lot of Democrats.
There's an increasing number of Democrats who want that. You know,
they know people disagree with them, and they want it.
So we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Well, speaking of media savvy democrats, that leads us nicely
to our next story here from our friend from this week,
Taylor Lorenz came out with an article in Wired. You know,
she was really hiding the big story from us. You know,
we were talking about cell phone bands earlier this week,
but she came out with an article.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Here and Wired.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
A dark money group is secretly funding high profile democratic influencers,
an initiative aimed at boosting democrats online offers influencers up
to eight thousand dollars a month to push the party line.
All they have to do is youake an secret and
agree to restrictions on their content. And you know, it
goes through a list of people who are doing it.
(17:54):
It's a real who's who. It's people like David Pacman,
Brian Tyler Cohen, more youth DNC influencers like Olivia Juliana.
And there's been a lot of pushback, a lot of
response videos and where are we right now in this drama?
Speaker 11 (18:14):
Ryan, Well, now you're in the as is common with
a Taylor Lorenz article, you're about in your fourth or
fifth phase. It's every single time. So basically what a
lot of the people involved say is Brian Tyler Cohen
(18:35):
and some others like, it's not secret, We've done videos
about it. Chorus has a website you can apply for
a chorus. Basically, what this is is democratic adjacent and
I think the DNC actually took over Chorus. Kamala Harris
campaign took over Chorus during the presidential campaign. And there's
now some actual internally, I've there's some struggle over at
(18:56):
like different party factions like want to want to have
the relationships with these different creators. And so there's a
couple different things going on. One would be you know,
regular stipends to people to say certain things or to
not say other things. The other would be stipends for
(19:18):
training to lift people up so that they can be
independent content creators.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And that mean like like, oh, here's how to make
a thumbnail, here's how to like.
Speaker 11 (19:28):
Yeah, no, no, like no, but this is like this
is not dumb, like this is what the right has done.
That it that it takes time to build up your
audience and to build up the skills so that you're
self sustaining as an independent.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Creator like that.
Speaker 11 (19:43):
Anybody who's tried to do it from scratch will tell
you that, like you're paying rent. I mean, how are
you gonna pay rent? Like on day one of with
zero followers?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Well you don't, you you you have it's a side
job till it's a full job, like it with everyone
else that's writing, right.
Speaker 11 (20:02):
And so so what Brian Tyler Cohen and others went
and they basically went to these very rich people and said,
why don't you fund this network that will then seed
people and help get them off the ground.
Speaker 9 (20:15):
The people that are doing the funding.
Speaker 11 (20:16):
Obviously, then are going to fund people that they think
are going to be beneficial to what they want. Uh
So that and that's where the corruption comes in. But
go ahead, well no.
Speaker 12 (20:28):
It's gonna so I'll get to the right later. But
if you could explain, so sixteen thirty fund, how are
they organized? And how is course organized? Are we talking packs?
Are we talking to c threes fours?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
What's going on?
Speaker 11 (20:40):
Sixteen thirty funds a dark money group? So you don't know,
like I mean, you know some of the donors who've
been public in the past. Enormous, enormous dark money organization
that is linked directly to the Democratic Party and it
but it does not have to disclose its payments because
that's yes, that's what a dark money group is. And
(21:03):
so sixteen thirty fund is funding Chorus and so that's
where the dark money connection comes from. So the argument
that some of these creators are making is this has
all been public. We have said we need to create
a partisan network of creators like Democratic partisans.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Basically, Yeah, we got David Packman here, let's take a
listen to him for a second.
Speaker 15 (21:30):
It's for years I've been saying the left needs to
organize independent media in the way.
Speaker 9 (21:38):
That all these words are insane, needs.
Speaker 15 (21:41):
To fund independent the way that the right does. The
right has won even arguably presidential elections because they're organized
with regard to online and independent media.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
They're killing us.
Speaker 15 (21:55):
We've been so behind, and this kind of support for
creators is exactly what I've been advocating for.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
But what is the like and keep going back to
this question, what is the support, because like, I don't
think that's.
Speaker 9 (22:10):
Eight thousand dollars a month.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
I think no, no, no, I get no, I get
the money. I get that part.
Speaker 9 (22:15):
But I'm talking about like, yeah, they had trainings, right.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
But the trainings, I'm like, I don't buy that some
random Democrat company knows how to do a YouTube thumbnail
or like knows how to like do well.
Speaker 9 (22:26):
They would hire other creators. They hire other content creators.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Well.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
To me, it seems like more like about My guess
is that the majority of the trainings that happen here
are messaging are like here's what here's what we talk about,
here's how we like to talk about it. We want
to push democracy, we want to support the Democratic Party.
We don't want to be divisive we don't want to
(22:52):
create circle like firing squads.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
You know, I don't.
Speaker 11 (22:56):
Know, Like as Shompsky always says, like you don't need
the genius of that. Like there's this famous interview that
Glenn likes to play. Yeahere he's we played it for
Don Lemon. Yeah, we played it for Don Lemon, where
this hack is like telling telling Chompsky, you think that
I have this job because I've agreed to say certain
(23:17):
things and because I've been trained to say certain things.
And Chompsky says, no, of course not. But you have
this job because they know you're going to say these things,
and the things are obvious, like to me, you don't
need to be trained in what like Democratic Party talking
points are so everybody knows them. Let's see if Olivia
Juliana has a response yet. I was checking her Twitter feed,
(23:40):
but go ahead.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
But Emily, you go first.
Speaker 12 (23:42):
I haven't literally pulled up, but I mean I always
thought I have a bookmarked of course Olivia Juliana's Twitter feed,
but it's in the In the Wired story, the line
is creators in the program are not allowed to use
any funds or resources that they receive as part of
the program to make content that supports or opposes any
political candidate or campaign without express authorization from course, in
(24:06):
advance and in writing per the contract. So one of
the functions here might be like a little catch and
kill action. You're not going to get involved in a primary.
You're not going to get involved with mom Donnie. In fact,
you actually might not be able to talk about mom
Donnie if you know you're on the streaming equipment that
(24:27):
you bought with part of your eight thousand dollars a month,
or you're using your stream yard subscription that you bought
with part of your eight thousand dollars a month. Because
even though everybody's talking about Zara Mamdanni, you could run
a foul of that. And Wired has a pretty hefty
update correction on the article as his customer point Ryan
(24:48):
was making.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
But that is not among them that there's no.
Speaker 12 (24:52):
Nothing has been corrected to that point yet, and so
I think that's a sort of crucial bit of information.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, exactly, Like if they're not teaching you how to
make YouTube thumbnails, that's my whole point.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
They're teaching they are.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I mean, okay, maybe, but like how much of that
I don't know it seems like a they probably don't
know how to do most of that. I work in
a lot of media companies where corporations want to start
a successful YouTube channel, they have no idea the space
or the platform or the mechanics in the way that
someone who's just grinding on their own doing it every
day analyzing the space. Same with TikTok as well. So, yeah,
(25:28):
it leads me to believe that the majority of this
is closer to what Emily just described.
Speaker 11 (25:32):
But the way that corruption generally works is it's much
more subtle than that. Yeah, that that point is key,
Like Okay, like they're making it very clear, like if
it wasn't clear already, we are the Democratic Party. You're
gonna you're gonna get money from us, and you're gonna
do things that make the Democratic Party happy. Now, there's
(25:52):
a couple creators in this list that they pointed to
since who have been critical of Gaza, But that just
means that they accept some people that go to the
training and then continue to be critical of the Democratic
Parties platform towards KAZA. Corruption doesn't mean that it influences
every single person. Some people take a pac money and
(26:13):
vote against a pack like it happens, but that but
the the idea is that you tilt the scales enough
that some, you know, some are going to get away.
But so and it's not just the eight thousand a month,
and it's not just the amount that you spend and
what you can spend making videos.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
It's future.
Speaker 11 (26:31):
So much of corruption in America is about the promise
of future wealth too, where they where they string you along,
and like that's how members of Congress are are thoroughly
corrupted that they know that if they do the right
thing while they're in office, once they leave office, they're
going to be very, very rich people.
Speaker 12 (26:53):
There's a great documentary on HBO called The Swamp that
it's actually like AOC's in it at the time. The
woman from California, Oh I forget her name is Katie Hill,
Katie Hill yep, Matt Gates and Thomas Massey and Thomas
Massey at one point walks out of the RNC, stands
in the middle of First Street and he's he's literally
(27:15):
straddling Capitol Hill Club and RNC and RCC and he's like,
this is how this is the actual architecture, the physical
construction of Washington that when you walk out of the
party headquarters, you are walking right past the fundraising bar essentially,
and that is I feel like the proximity is so powerful.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I mean my last thought is when I see a
lot of the creators on this list, I've always thought, Man,
I hope they're getting paid for this.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
It's so pathetic.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's like it's like you're doing the stanky leg at
the d NC. You're I hope you're getting paid for that.
Like do you think Horace is telling Brian Tyler Cohen
to unbutton his shirt more and more?
Speaker 11 (28:03):
Brian like he you know, he helped create Chorus, Like
that's the weird part about this. Uh. He is a
hardcore partisan Democrat, right Like. Nobody needs to tell him
to be a hardcore partisan demograt.
Speaker 9 (28:17):
That is what he is.
Speaker 11 (28:19):
He tried and so he's trying to build a network
of hardcore partis and Democrats and get Democrats to fund it,
right like. And it's happening out mostly in the open.
It's cool that she got some of these contracts and stuff.
But I just kind of he calls it the left,
which is he calls it left and independent, and in
his mind, I think he believes that, but it's to us,
(28:42):
we're like, I'm sorry, what.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Media I want to specific because he mentions like how
the right succeeded so well, and and I think there
is like you know, we've like seen Tim Poole or
other people have gotten like you know, those big fundings and.
Speaker 9 (28:57):
Stuff Daily Wire like it was enormous funding.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Daily Wire for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
But like my senses of like the whole podcast thing
with Trump was like, you know, a lot of this
was like people who like made a platform on their
own and were kind of culturally right, like like Rogan
Theovon Andrew Schultz, Like they weren't like bred in like
a right wing chorus like Think Tank to get to
(29:25):
their size.
Speaker 15 (29:26):
Right.
Speaker 12 (29:26):
Yes, So I think this is this does drive me
a little bit insane because of course, there are situations
like the Tenant media scandal. I think that was like
five high profile creators like Tim Poole, Benny Johnson, lorn
Chen something like that, and they were just over the
last couple of years after they were already big, cashing
(29:47):
out for just dumb sums of money that they didn't
need to be famous.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
They it was just like patting their bottom line.
Speaker 12 (29:54):
It was like ridiculous, but they were already prominent and famous,
and the reason that the right has a podcast ecosystem
that's booming. If you look at the podcast charts, this
gets misunderstood a lot. You have the Daily, NPR Atlantic,
All of those guys are up there, right alongside Megan Kelly,
Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, whomever.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Ols.
Speaker 12 (30:16):
It's because the right was forced the right during the
like wave of cancel culture was forced out of those
outlets and so was forced to create independent outlets.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
And sometimes those quote independent outlets.
Speaker 12 (30:30):
Are made by money from like rich Republicans. Of course,
in the same way that George Soros at one point
didn't he have like a controlling stake in the New
York Times company?
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Ryan like it was.
Speaker 12 (30:43):
It's it's not an insane comparison, even though it's on
a much smaller scale. But yeah, partisan Republicans support you know,
like a Paul Singer funds the Washington Free Break, Washington
Free Beacon, and partisans I'm trying to think of it
a daily.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
Wirefunder Brian Tyler Cohen number ten. Yeah.
Speaker 12 (31:04):
Yeah, but if you go to like yeah news podcasta
mm hmmm, yeah, look at that, so I just think
that's This is a classic example of partisan centrist Democrats
missing like, look at I've Had It, that's an example
of what they should be doing, not or that's.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
An example of yeah, there we are. That's an example.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
I'll take that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Travis kelcey, Oh, does that mean our marriage News did
better than his?
Speaker 6 (31:36):
Wow?
Speaker 12 (31:38):
But like Timpoole and I've Had It, those are examples
of podcasts that actually are going to be more powerful.
I'm not saying that it's strategically dumb for Dems to
fund this, this vast network, but what they actually are
looking for is people like Kyle for example, he's very successful.
They just don't consider Kyle a W for Democrats, and
(31:59):
they shouldn't in the same way that they don't necessarily
consider I've Had It a W for Democrats and The Right.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Is all they which is hilarious because both those podcasts,
like all all their advice is how the Democrats can win,
how they can like get back up on their feet.
Speaker 12 (32:15):
I just is this and like Republicans just seepool and
Benny as are or as as ours, yes, as ours,
but also as w's because they understand they're moving the needle.
But these were people who were forced out of the
quote mainstream for various reasons, some good, some bad, and
that's what happened. It wasn't this like puppet master. There
(32:36):
are puppet masters, but that wasn't the the fuel for
what happened on the right, gotcha?
Speaker 6 (32:43):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Well, uh, you know this. We always loved to Taylor
lorenz and and willing to poke the beehives. I saw
her TikTok alive yesterday where she was getting swarm by
the haters. Sou you know. Always got to tip my
hat to that. All right, Well, up next I should bounce. Yeah,
(33:07):
Ryan's gonna bounce. We have an interview we just did
with doctor Mohammad Khalil, who was a doctor who just
got back from his third trip in Gaza. So look
forward to that right now. All right, we are now
joined by doctor Mohammad Khalil. He's a spine surgeon from
Dallas and he has just gotten back from his correct
me if I'm wrong, third trip to Gaza. Welcome to
(33:30):
the show, doctor.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, and so I guess you know you let you.
You said a list of things that we could ask
you about, but I guess we just first wanted to
ask you, uh, what was it like getting in and
out of Gaza this most recent.
Speaker 14 (33:43):
Times, it's actually become increasingly difficult. On the very first
trip that I went to to Gaza in April of
twenty four, we went through the rough up order, so
we were able to bring in a lot of equipment.
When I went back in November as well as this time,
you're pretty restricted on what you can bring in. The
instructions are to just bring one suit case, one carry
(34:06):
on and it's limited to personal supplies. Logistically, it can
be quite a challenge getting there, just because you can
get a seed from the WHO as far as getting
on the UN convoy, but you don't know until the
night before if you're cleared by CogAT, which is the
arm of Yezuela military that controls movement within Gaza, and
(34:29):
so that clearance doesn't come in until about ten or
eleven pm the night before. You're supposed to move at
six in the morning. So we all go to am
On and we find out that night if we're getting in.
Last time I went in November, one of my buddies
was supposed to go with me and he got turned
around and had to come back to Dallas.
Speaker 11 (34:44):
When you when you first got there, you sent me
a text that has kind of sat with me since then.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
Tell tell tell people what the doctor told you.
Speaker 11 (34:55):
See if you remember this what the doctor who us house,
the Palcitian doctor told you about whether or not you're
going to have an eventful shift or not. Like, how
how did doctors know whether or not their shift is
going to be?
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Oh, yeah, it's this time around.
Speaker 14 (35:12):
It's almost a direct correlation with the ghf A distribution
as well as when a truck would come through this
key border. So they would say, I mean, his his words,
where if you're lucky, there will be no a distribution tonight.
If you're unlucky, the yar is going to overflow. And
I mean he was one hundred percent right. I mean,
I think you know when I had gone before in November,
(35:34):
we were at the same hospital at Ali up North,
and it was mostly blast injuries from drone strikes and airstrikes.
This time it was a good mix of blast injuries
as well as these gunshot wounds from these eight distribution sites.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
I think everyone knows that.
Speaker 14 (35:48):
I mean, they describe him as death traps and they
tell people not to go, but there's such a dire
need with the malnutrition and starvation that people are just
they're just taking their chances and going and seeing that
they can retrieve something.
Speaker 11 (36:02):
Yeah, so I just want to sit sort of for
one second. So like here here in the United States,
if it's Friday or Saturday or like New New Year's
Eve or something, you tell me like the e rs
know to brace themselves like there are going to be
more people in you or maybe it's like New Orleans
for the Super Bowl or something like we're gonna.
Speaker 9 (36:20):
Get, We're gonna have.
Speaker 11 (36:21):
It's gonna be a it's probably going to be a
busier night than than a typical night in Gozen. Nowt
if there is an AID distribution site open for a
few hours, the e rs brace themselves.
Speaker 9 (36:38):
Rele time and did that bear out?
Speaker 11 (36:40):
Like in your in your case, if the AID dislution
site was open, was his forecast correct?
Speaker 9 (36:46):
Like did you did? You then get a oh, overwhelmed.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
Exactly that that happened every time.
Speaker 14 (36:52):
And the thing is that they're already overwhelmed, uh because
you know one example is Shifa Hospital that was destroyed
when I was there on the prior visit in November,
and since then they've been able to get the er
back up and running to some degree. And they have
you know, two hundred semi functioning beds. And when I
(37:12):
say beds, I mean these are stretchers with no mat
on them, like we actually, after operating on a patient
would put them back on a hard you know, plastic
or metal stretcher with no mattress. And I mean but
in those beds they had over six hundred patients, so
they're running at two hundred and fifty three hundred percent capacity.
So when these rs would fill up, I mean these
are patients laid on the floor getting chest tuubs put in,
(37:33):
getting procedures done. And so I mean every time there
was an eight distribution, you'd have just so many patients
on the floor. We would literally have to be walking
over patients walking through the er.
Speaker 12 (37:47):
Emily, you're mute, having done multiple trips at this point,
what difference did you notice when it comes to famine
and hunger? Can you share your experience in treating patients
and whether or not you saw an increase in people
suffering from malnutrition and starvation?
Speaker 14 (38:07):
Yeah, certainly, you know, it takes a lot of calories
to heal injuries and to heal wounds. And so this
time around, the amount of people that were just visibly malnourished,
with you know, very skinny arms and legs, like visible
ribs was very apparent, and you knew that a number
(38:30):
of these injuries were going to end up infected, and
they would end up infected very quickly. Like patients that
we operated on the beginning of the trip, we're coming
back for washouts within a week or so, and it's
just usually you don't see infections developed that quickly because
the body tries to fight off infection. So I mean
there's a remarkable level of malnutrition even among the people
that we're working with. I mean this time around, like
(38:52):
I met a lot of the same doctors and hospital
staff that I worked with before, and they've just lost
even more weight. So you know, when they come in
for a hug, can you can feel their their finest
processes at the back, you could feel their ribs, and
a lot of people will will, you know, show you
what they look like before.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
They lost all the weight.
Speaker 14 (39:10):
And I mean the weight loss is dramatic even among
the staff, you know, I mean, even like one of
the last cases that we actually did.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
It's outside of orthopedics.
Speaker 14 (39:20):
It was actually our anesthesia one of the anesthesia techts,
sweetest lady, always smiling. The day before we left Ali Hospital,
I went down to the OAR and she was very
somber and walked into the room and the neurosurgeon was
operating on her husband who had been shot at an
eight distribution site. Like her husband was also an anesthesia
tech at Kamala Dwan Hospital did not leave when a
(39:42):
patient was in the OAR. Was kidnapped for seven months
in Israeli prison. She didn't know where he was and
and then he showed up one day, so she was
happy to have him back. But then he went to
an AID distribution and got shot in the head. So
I mean even the staff that were working with their
suffering the same starvation that people are.
Speaker 9 (40:01):
How and did he die?
Speaker 6 (40:03):
How?
Speaker 9 (40:03):
How did he survive the gunshot?
Speaker 14 (40:06):
Miraculously he survived, Like we were getting updates from uh
now Like so the neurosurgeon at one of our ORSPETA
surgeons scrubbed into the case as well and they picked
out trapannel and uh, you know, he had exposed brain matters,
so they were taking out pieces of the skull from
from the brain and he ended up in you know,
in the I c U. When we checked on him
right before we left, he was still non responsive, but
(40:28):
now he is responsive, still not communicative, but able to
follow commands.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
What about your own safety, you know, I mean, we've
been covering a lot this week, the double tap strike
at the Alnasre hospital that took out you know, medics
and journalists. Some reports are now saying it may have
been a triple or even quadruple tap BBC.
Speaker 11 (40:50):
BBC found of quadruple two tanks. It keeps, it just
keeps going up. So how did you feel about your
own safety? And I guess sort of a part two
of this.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Question is, you know you come on shows like ours
after these experiences to share them. Do you feel like
the Israeli government is starting to become aware of that?
Are you worried that they may not let you back
in another time?
Speaker 14 (41:14):
I think the first question, yeah, there were definitely this
time around.
Speaker 6 (41:18):
We had more.
Speaker 14 (41:19):
Close calls than on prior trips. You know, when you
go up north, you have to go between hospitals to
get cases done, So like I did a few spine cases,
I would have to go to another hospital called Sajava,
so they you know, load you up into an ambulance
and drive you over to do the cases. And so
the last trip I was a little bit more liberal
(41:39):
and going around town and you know, there were a
couple of close calls just do that. But this time,
you know, there were various We're in a privileged position
being American and European teams. They take our safety as
a high priority, both on the UN side as well
as on the side of the other Palestinian teams, and
probably from the Israelis as well because their drones overhead,
(42:02):
not like continuously, they always know, I think, where we
are and so but there were a few times where
there were strikes very close to us because we were
in Gaza City. I think there was that the push
to invade the city. So there were a couple of
air strikes in the building adjacent to us. I saw,
you know, a drone strike happen in an apartment that
(42:25):
was that was in the building adjacent to our dormitory.
We did, you know, the day that we were leaving,
our UN convoy was delayed. You know, you have to
wait for a green light to move, so we got
loaded up into the cars and then somebody came by inside.
Speaker 6 (42:39):
It's gonna be in another thirty forty minutes.
Speaker 14 (42:41):
I want to wait outside for me and one of
my one of my colleagues that that came with us,
walked around to the back of the convoy just to talk.
And one of our teammates was in stayed in the
car because he was taking a nap, and there was
a drone strike just a few hundred meters away that
like rocked the cars, and somebody from the OCHA Center
out and said that the convoy got hit.
Speaker 6 (43:02):
So we freaked out.
Speaker 14 (43:02):
And we were because we knew we knew he stayed
in the car, but luckily it was it was a
little bit away, but there were definitely some some close
calls this time. I think, you know, we again we
have this this sense of security that because we're American
and European, and I think for the hospitals, they also
see it as some sense of security that when you know,
(43:23):
when we leave as as a team, they're more nervous
about being invaded. So whenever there was a strike, I
think Al Jazeera reported on one of the Sundays that
there was a strike in front of the hospital. There
was some talk of having us move back down south,
but that's what we were saying, like, you know, if
we can serve some protective uh purpose, then it's it's
good for us to just finish out the mission and
(43:44):
stay where stay put where we were.
Speaker 6 (43:46):
I think speaking up is an interesting question.
Speaker 14 (43:49):
Like, you know, when you arrive, you get a debris
a brief from the from the you know, the teams
that have that are coordinating your travel, uh from the
un w h O, and they say specifically not to
use certain buzzwords and not to assign blamed to anything.
But then when you do these these interviews, people will
last pretty directly, and then you're kind of stuck in
(44:09):
a hard position where you're like you're you're the reporter. Yeah,
I mean, you know, you know who's doing the shooting
and stuff. But it's, uh, it's kind of a unique
uh situation to be in. But I think at this stage,
you know, it's anybody who's following the conflict. I don't
think there's too many questions as to the responsible parties.
And when we are there, you know, they a lot
(44:29):
of the doctors they're there and and staff that we
work with they're like, you know, one of the biggest
purposes that you serve is going back out to the
world and explaining what's going on here, because it's not
it's not right for anybody to live under these conditions.
And they're they're very cognizant of what's going on around
the world, like and so we feel compelled to to
speak up and at least report what we saw, Like
i mean, one of one of the girls, for example,
(44:51):
like it's it's actually pretty hopeful, like she she's a
general surgeon, you know, great surgeon, like very calm, collected, cool.
We were she wants to be a plastic surgeon. We
were like, oh you get that, definitely do it, like
you know down the road, like take your USM A
league and even get it. You might be able to
come out to America re training. And she's like, yeah,
I know, my brother lives in California. Like the these
are normal people that are not like, you know, cut
(45:12):
off from the rest of the world.
Speaker 6 (45:13):
They know what's going on.
Speaker 11 (45:15):
And speaking of bringing back some of the disturbing stories,
one of the things you shared with us, I wanted
to get your get you to elaborate on for us.
Let me see if I can share this and if not,
we could have some.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Kind of in post ran But yeah, actually is this working.
Speaker 9 (45:29):
You guys can see this right?
Speaker 6 (45:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (45:31):
Yeah, So this is I would call these photos disturbing,
but not overly graphic. This is a This is an
X ray of a sixteen year old girl wounds from
what you said was a shooting at a GHF site,
Kazi Humanitarian Foundation site. You told us that you observed
(45:52):
a pattern of victims coming in who were shot in
the genitals, suggestive of some type of depraved target practice.
So this is one we can talk about this in
a moment. This is a twelve year old boy who
(46:13):
is being operated on. You talk a little bit about
what kind of injuries you were seeing this time from
the GHF site.
Speaker 14 (46:24):
Yeah, so, I mean a lot of the you know,
it's a mix of blast injuries and gunshot wounds, and
I think for the gunshot wounds in particular, that's there
is this feeling that there there's a target practice being done,
because there will be they'll come in waves. So in
the course of two days, we had three patients with
(46:45):
gunshot wounds to the scrotum that had to have an
orchaectomy or a testicle rooved. And so we were talking
to the urologists and he was like, it just happens
periodically where you'll get a wave of these shots right
to the testicle, There'll be waves of shots right to
the head.
Speaker 5 (47:00):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (47:00):
And you know, I think there is.
Speaker 14 (47:03):
The suggestion is is that these kids are being used
for target practice. I think there's uh, you know, there
is some concept of just spraying into the crowd with
with gunshots, and so that can be a little bit random.
But when it comes in waves like that, the physicians
there are they suspect that this is this is targeted
because these are snper what I just showed there, right, yeah, exactly,
(47:29):
and these bullets are large caliber bullets and so I
mean it's you know, coming from a sniper rifle like
it does quite a bit of damage. One of the
spines that I operated on was like a sniper shot
that I mean, the bullet is huge and it just
does an immense amount of damage.
Speaker 13 (47:44):
Uh.
Speaker 14 (47:44):
So that this was an unstable spine where the poster
elements were just completely blasted from a from a gunshot
wound and you just have to kind of span it
with screws and rods, but it's uh, the nature of
the injuries from these high powered rifles is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
And so it looked like sniper fire.
Speaker 14 (48:01):
Yeah yeah, I mean, I think with the large caliber bullet,
that's the suspicions that is coming from a sniper rifle.
Speaker 11 (48:09):
And you also showed us this miraculous one here. I'll
put up where you said this was shrapnel that came
This was a spine surgeon before you did this, when
you said you described this one here exactly.
Speaker 6 (48:24):
So one of the neurosurgeons at.
Speaker 14 (48:29):
The hospital, like he had done this case a few
weeks prior actually, and this was a piece of shrapnel
that had entered the skull and traveled through the frame
and magnum and lodged itself in the cervical spine. So
he first operated on the patient for a head bleat
and then came back a couple of days later and
retrieved this piece of shrapnel from the cervical spine, and remarkably,
(48:51):
the patient regained function. So he was able to kind
of move with four out of five strength in his
lower extremities in one arm and the other arm remained paralyzed.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
But you know, he was in a.
Speaker 14 (49:01):
It's actually a really kind of a sweet story, like he, uh,
you know, when we got done with cases, he went
to he said, we had to go, I got to
go do something. So him and the word the attending usurgeon,
the attending orth thepeed surgeon actually went, you know, left
us and then we saw him in the hospital courtyard.
Because they had physically gone to take this patient out
(49:21):
of his bed and put him in a wheelchair so
his family could wheel him around. We were like, nowhere
else in the world would see the attending surgeons like
go physically mobilize a patient. That's what they were saying,
like these are these are our kids. You know, we
have to look beyond just a physical injury. And any
sixteen year old just laying in bed shouldn't be Uh,
it's not good for his mental health. So they forced
the family to kind of get him out and pull
(49:41):
him around in a wheelchair. But it's really a miraculous case,
like you wouldn't expect anyone to survive that type of
an injury.
Speaker 11 (49:48):
You also sent this one what what's the uh.
Speaker 6 (49:52):
That's the same piece of shrapnel the travel through the head.
Speaker 14 (49:55):
You can see the track that it took it went
into the frame and Magnum dirrectly got it.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Doctor, Like, you know, if I got shot with a
sniper bullet, I'm sure it would be a very long
recovery post the operation. You know, with a lot of
these people you're operating on, they're getting sent once they're
done operated on, even if it's successful, they're being thrust
back out into a war zone with little food or water.
What's your sense of people's ability to survive after these wounds,
(50:23):
even if you do patch them up.
Speaker 14 (50:26):
So, yeah, that's the thing is, like, it's it's a
long drawn out recovery for a lot of these things,
and unfortunately they're going back into a situation where they're
living in a tent without food. There are extended hospital
stays for some patients who just really need it, and
they're trying right now in the healthcare system to develop
a you know, this WUFFA hospital as a rehab hospital
(50:50):
that they're trying to convert into more of a longer
term stay for people to recover.
Speaker 6 (50:53):
But it's not online yet.
Speaker 14 (50:55):
It was actually damaged in a strike before, and so
they're trying to get it back online and to be
able to provide some long term care.
Speaker 6 (51:02):
But a lot of these patients.
Speaker 14 (51:03):
They just go back out and they have to you know,
figure it out on their own. I mean, even some
of the fractures that come in, like as fresh fractures,
Normally they would get admitted here in the in the
US or in the West, they're just getting a splint
put on and being sent back home to follow up
again when we can fit them on the R schedule.
(51:23):
But the inflow of traumatic injuries just makes it to
where some of these patients are waiting for months with
an injury that never gets treated.
Speaker 11 (51:34):
Well, doctor Khalil, we really appreciate you know, the work
you're doing, and also appreciate you, you know, filling us
in here. I hope you're re entry is as smooth
as possible. Have you heard anything from your colleagues that
are still there that they want to share as a
like a final word.
Speaker 14 (51:53):
Yeah, I mean I think, like you know that's there.
There's been a number of doctors that have been denied.
I think their denial rate is getting up to fifty
sixty percent likely, and so you know, I think like
going going in, like is going in.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
And what are they getting denied for? Like are they
bringing band aids or what are they getting denied for.
Speaker 14 (52:11):
There's no explanation. So a lot of times, like you
get denied before you even get to the border. If
you get denied at the border, it's because of you know,
bringing in something or they say like you have, you know,
something that might be dual used, like an ultrasound to
do fast exams in the er, or to check for
bleeds in the er. Most of the time the denialt
before you get to the border, before you even get
on the UN convoy, and there's no explanation, So there
(52:33):
is some suspicion that some of it may be doing
interviews and reporting on what was seen. I wish, you know,
journalists like yourselves could enter Gaza, Like I think once
you go there, like it's hard to describe in words
the camaraderie that you get from the people that are
working on the ground there these other healthcare professionals, but
it's uh, you know, I think at this point everyone
(52:55):
is pretty committed to speaking up because a lot of
the doctors there kind of see it. Physicians, hospital staff
talking to them. They almost see it as an endgame
at this point, like they're like, you know, when we
talked about gods the city being invaded directly ask some
people like do you think it's going to get invaded?
And one of the one of the guys was like,
it's it's unlikely because why would Israel accept more personnel
(53:15):
losses to take over something that's already this destroyed. But yeah,
into doing it anyway, exactly, exactly, And for a lot
of those docs that's the there there. We always ask
like what can we do when we go back, and
it's always the same answer, like just don't forget us
and tell the world what's happening here.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Okay, Well, thank you very much doctor for your time
here today, your time in the past telling our audience
about this and uh we wish you in the medical
community lack as they try to do what they can
out there.
Speaker 6 (53:46):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 12 (53:47):
Well, thanks everyone for joining us this Friday. We have
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(54:07):
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(54:30):
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Well, I'm I'm gonna force it. Gavin Coin.
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That's why I forgot it because it's so ridiculous. But no, truly,
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Speaker 3 (00:31):
All right, Friday show, how are we doing, Ryan and
Emily Happy Labor Day weekend? Yes, us working on the
weekend comrades. We're seizing the means of the Breaking Points here.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
We're going to want to take a ten percent stake.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
In ooh hmmm, uh what is a Was it black
rifle coffee that was really big in the studio for
a minute there, that's pretty good. There was two of
free black rifle coffee.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
It was it was out of control. Yeah, sccer would
love Yeah, so I don't consider keeping.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Actually it would be Lucy, Lucy Gum something like Lucy.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
Yeah, Lucy.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I like Lucy, but Lucy doesn't ship to California for
some reason.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
They're tough stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
They're tightening, tightening down here in Gavin Neiscumb's California.
Speaker 5 (01:21):
All Right, we got a lot to talk about.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We've got Adam Friedland versus Richie Torres, the matchup everyone
has been waiting for. We've got an interview with Gaza doctor,
doctor Mohammad Khalil. We've got a taylor of the Wren's article,
and much much more. But why don't we get right
into it here? Uh the Adam Friedland Show. He is
a podcast comedian and he recently had Congressman Richie Torres
(01:49):
on to discuss many topics, including Israel, Gaza.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Let's take a listen, the.
Speaker 7 (01:55):
Understanding in our communities that we have to defend Israel.
Speaker 8 (01:59):
But I lived there, and I went to a settlement
at the end of my year there, and I looked
down a hill at.
Speaker 7 (02:08):
A Palestinian village, and I saw how they lived. And
I turned back and I looked at the settlement and
saw how they live.
Speaker 8 (02:13):
And people live in in a world where they're demean
to dehumanized and surveilled constantly by people in this isn't
a gaza, by people in SWAT team outfits with semi
automatic weapons.
Speaker 7 (02:29):
And that's what the world is seeing. And you keep
telling me that the problem is someone's getting yelled at
a restaurant. I'm sorry, please just please.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
Me.
Speaker 8 (02:40):
Saying this to you right now will hurt people in
my own family, Okay, because because this is a very
important thing to us, and the fact that I still
fucking care about being Jewish is embarrassing.
Speaker 7 (02:50):
I should just be a guy. But but it, but
this is feels like a stain on our history, and
it feels like it's changed what being Jewish is. Because
what being Jewish is is it Israel. Judas music existed
for four thousand years. This is a country for seventy
five years. I want to feel like I'm here to
(03:12):
be lectured. None, shut up, that's not nice. You can't
talk that way. Why are one set of Jews? But
more for than the other thing.
Speaker 9 (03:19):
No one's saying any you're what.
Speaker 7 (03:22):
Happened you had you went to the beach at at Israel?
What you looked at a rust rat or something? Yeah,
a nice restaurant, like, listen, this.
Speaker 9 (03:33):
Has ever even been to the televis pripary.
Speaker 7 (03:34):
So this is the year twenty twenty five.
Speaker 8 (03:38):
The world is seeing something that looks terrible and it's
being done in my name, and I don't know what
to do.
Speaker 10 (03:45):
But the war began on October seven, No it did it?
Speaker 6 (03:47):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (03:49):
Yes, Rahmas systematically murdered.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And a right that was clip number one. Uh what
are we to make of that?
Speaker 11 (03:58):
Well, the whole conversation is raw and I think just
worth worth watching as it's like cinema almost as Adam
is sitting there kind of begging Richie Torres to reach
(04:18):
him on a human level, to meet him on a
human level, and Richie Torra is just flatly refusing throughout
throughout it, Like Richie just kind of sticks to Wikipedia
level talking points. Hebron massacre in the nineteen twenties, and
(04:38):
and so this juxtaposition is this point counterpoint of like
raw emotion being met with talking points creates this this
just disturbing scene I've seen. And there's also been a
lot of criticism that you've seen from the kind of
more ultra left saying that why are we because this
(05:01):
has gotten so much attention, why are we quote unquote
centering Jewish feelings?
Speaker 9 (05:05):
And to me, that's.
Speaker 11 (05:08):
To me, that's completely unfair criticism because on the one hand,
you have heard a repeated criticism of the American Jewish
community that they haven't spoken up enough to criticize and
to separate themselves from net Yahoo's and Israel's genocide which
is being waged according to Israel.
Speaker 9 (05:28):
On behalf of the.
Speaker 11 (05:30):
Jewish community writ large with the flag that has the
Star of David on it like that is their claim
that they stand for the Jewish people. So if Jewish
people who do not agree with that are silent, that
is affirming. That is used as affirmation that in fact
Israel government does indeed speak for them. So the criticism
(05:52):
has been they're not speaking up enough. So he speaks
up and now saying well, why are you centering Jewish feelings?
Like that to me is utterly inconsistent and unfair. Like
in fact, if a country is waging a genocide and
saying that they're doing it in your name, it's not
just appropriate for you to speak up about it, it's
(06:13):
morally imperative for you to speak up about it, because
if you don't, then it's a silent acknowledgement that that's true.
They are they are doing that. And meanwhile, like Richie
Torres kind of jokingly adopted George Santos's claim in this
interview that he's Jewish.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Yep, he was kind of New Yorkers too, gay Latino.
Speaker 11 (06:38):
New Yorkers who are both Jewish. So the questions of
identity are kind of shot through this like two and yeah,
we can if you want to put up this this next,
this capo tweet, Like to some defenders of Israel, Richie
(06:59):
Torres really is the more Jewish, Like your your ideas
around your approach, is your your your your thoughts as
it relates to this genocide determine whether or not you
are Jewish in the eyes of some people.
Speaker 9 (07:14):
I just want to say, very I can't read you want.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
To read that.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I just want to say, I'll go for it.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Well, I just won it very quickly.
Speaker 12 (07:21):
That is the exact argument conservatives detest when it is
applied to Clarence Thomas or uh whomever else, right, that
this idea that is you are not you know, people
will use the uncle Tom slur, but it's this idea
that your identity isn't true even though it's it's literally true. Uh,
(07:42):
it isn't true unless you have the ideology baked into it.
So anyway, that's what you're seeing in this this tweet
that Griffin just put up on the screen about.
Speaker 9 (07:54):
It s from the Free Press.
Speaker 6 (07:56):
Here.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
The role Friedlin is playing is that of capo the Jew,
articulating and or acting out the wishes conscious or unconscious
of the gentile majority.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
This is literally the world's oldest or second oldest profession.
Speaker 11 (08:13):
But okay, literally it is not like the I don't
even understand like what remotely the guy's talking about there.
And in the post right before that, he used a
bunch of fancy words to call himself hating as well.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, because you know what what Adam says in that clip,
I guess is that he's like, oh, I shouldn't even
have to care about this, and I think he's he
should just be a guy, not a Jewish person, and he,
I think is speaking to like that as a comedian.
Like identity, politics and all that stuff is typically something
that you try to steer away from that it's typically
construed as lame to like lead with your identity when
(08:51):
speaking on a subject. But when it comes to this
subjects specifically, like they're doing it in people like Adam's.
Speaker 12 (08:57):
Name, and Adam kind of crashed out in the interview.
And I don't mean that in a bad way. It
was obviously like no, truly, That's where some people on
the right are who don't know Adam Friedlan are watching
this and saying this was such a win for Richie Torres.
Richie Torres probably thinks it was a win for him too.
(09:19):
He looks like he was calmly sitting there while he
got h badgered and pestered by a mentally unstable comedian.
But if you follow Adam Friedland's work and you know
Richie Torres from other appearances, it was a really I
think it was a really important clash for someone who's
(09:40):
Jewish to relay a lot of Jewish people's feelings about
the conflict. I remember Ryan, when when the campus, when
the encampments were happening, you set up an interview for
us with somebody I think she was a senior at Columbia.
They were doing Shabbat in their tent at the encampment, and.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's just so absurd.
Speaker 12 (10:06):
Were there some anti Semitic hangers on, of course, but
it's so easy to dismiss people with those labels, and
it just falls into the exact same territory that has
the left, I think, dismissing black conservatives, female conservatives. You're
anti woman, you're not a real woman, you're self loathing.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
It's the same thing.
Speaker 12 (10:29):
And I'm saying that just in the context of we're
using an example from the Free Press that would editorialize
against all of those uses, all of those applications of
identity litmus tests.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
So in this next clip, you know, we also get
I think this is a clip where Adam kind of
is able to totally break the sort of pro Zionist
talking point facade with some just really simple, straightforward rebuttals
that you don't typically see on any mainstream news or
(11:03):
in many of these conversations with Zionist Let's take a lesson.
Speaker 13 (11:07):
What we're seeing right now is that members of the
Israeli government are talking about clearing that ship out, and Trump,
our president, is talking about putting a fucking jet ski
museum there. And you're that's the reality the far right,
the far what the far right, I'm talking about the
government and the generals that are that are in charge
(11:28):
of Israel.
Speaker 10 (11:29):
The Bengavirs, the Smoltz's of the world.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
That they're the cabinet.
Speaker 10 (11:32):
Yes, and I reject them.
Speaker 7 (11:34):
That's what Hamas is saying they want to do to Israel.
I'm sorry, I mean murdered.
Speaker 10 (11:41):
I mean Hamas murdered thousands of people.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
So there's no.
Speaker 7 (11:45):
So what does that mean that.
Speaker 10 (11:47):
Hamas is a terrorist organization for murdering innocent children and civilians.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
How many civilians have been killed in this war?
Speaker 9 (11:57):
The war is a tragedy, But it have been.
Speaker 8 (12:06):
They've killed journalists, They've killed journalists.
Speaker 10 (12:10):
People, people have been killed on a war. It's been attraged,
killed people waiting for a But you're suggesting that it
is the policy of the Israeli government to murder civilians,
and that's that is a notion that I rejected.
Speaker 7 (12:23):
You got it like this is mad. You got to
be like a human being about this.
Speaker 10 (12:27):
People who are dying in the war, which to me
is a tragedy, because war is a tragedy.
Speaker 8 (12:32):
You feel in your heart that this is what you're doing,
where you're staying is right?
Speaker 10 (12:37):
If Hamas, if you remove Hamas, don't actually think I
told you what I believe.
Speaker 6 (12:41):
Don't tell me what I believe. I've told you what
I believe.
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Why would you believe that?
Speaker 10 (12:44):
Because I because there are people who see the world differently.
I know it's a shock to you.
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Why would you believe that?
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, I feel like Adam's almost success. But simultaneously, a
fatal mistake is assuming Richie Torres is a human and
trying to like relate to him on a human level
when that was.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
Just never going to work out. But maybe that contrast
and then.
Speaker 11 (13:05):
But that's the that's the strategy to Richie Torres is
a human. Yahoo is the humans are capable of horrific
evil and and we and it's that's something we always
have to remember because if we forget that, then we'll
(13:25):
set back and be a little bit too comfortable, and
then all of a sudden, these humans are doing these
all too human things like we're we're I think we're
a little bit too kind to our idea of humanity.
Speaker 9 (13:35):
Humanity is capable of deep evil.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Total Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 11 (13:41):
But Freedland is a the unique figure in the way
that he engages with with guests and like a let
let's let's pregnant pauses, sit says things.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Bluntly mails you heard it here first?
Speaker 9 (13:54):
Is that what it is?
Speaker 5 (13:56):
No, No, we're arguing about this off air. See ways.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Thing was all just about being awkward and usually awkward
with like her friends, and like she rarely did like
contentious stuff with with you know, strangers.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
George Santos was pretty good.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
But yeah, but any exchange go ahead.
Speaker 12 (14:18):
Well no, I was just gonna say, I mean this,
maybe twenty years ago you would have seen something uncomfortable
like this on the Daily Show maybe or in a
print interview in like a zine. But this is really
new that we see confrontations like this I think playing out,
which is a good thing. I mean, I'm glad that
we are able to watch Friedland versus Torres. I think
(14:41):
it was actually instructive, and.
Speaker 11 (14:44):
The whole thing is just completely crazy because anybody watching
it is like watching him define what a terrorist organization
is as somebody who has quot quote unquote murdered thousands
of people, but which again whatever, and then the obvious
(15:05):
I think the entire audience is like, wait a minute,
that's your definition of a terrorist organization somebody who's killed
thousands of people. By the way, I'm also in October
seventh killed hundreds of civilians. Anybody would call that terrorism.
To kill hundreds of civilians terrorism, But what is it then,
to kill tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of
civilians and to displace two million, and to send suicide
(15:29):
robots through Gadsa city to blow up entire populated blocks.
And so I just it just can't withstand the barest
amount of scrutiny.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
And that's why we don't get a lot of Democrats
to come on our show for that very thing, right there.
Speaker 11 (15:46):
Well, I think it's actually more we don't try that much. Okay, well,
so try, but this is the interviews are often so boring.
The slot in one is good. If we can get
more centrist, good, But like I mean, we've.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Tried buddhaj Edge Newsome, We've tried every single person that
will go on Brian Tyler Cohen or pod Save but
will not come on here.
Speaker 9 (16:08):
They won't come on that reason.
Speaker 11 (16:10):
Why, Well, I think we should start making that public
and like shame them.
Speaker 14 (16:14):
This is the pretty.
Speaker 12 (16:16):
I don't think Richie Torre is expected to have that
interview go any other way.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
I think he's pretty happy with how it went.
Speaker 12 (16:23):
And because he's getting your support from.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
People that we just like. I actually saw a lot
of people on the right.
Speaker 12 (16:31):
It was sort of like an ink blot experience who
definitely don't know the Friedland stick jumping in and being
like Richie Torres looked pretty good in this exchange or whatever,
seeing it as an l for Friedland. And I think
Torres is media savvy enough that he knows that. And
there are a lot of Democrats who are media savvy
enough that they know it's good to go back and
(16:54):
forth with new media podcast now not a lot of Democrats.
There's an increasing number of Democrats who want that. You know,
they know people disagree with them, and they want it.
So we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Well, speaking of media savvy democrats, that leads us nicely
to our next story here from our friend from this week,
Taylor Lorenz came out with an article in Wired. You know,
she was really hiding the big story from us. You know,
we were talking about cell phone bands earlier this week,
but she came out with an article.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Here and Wired.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
A dark money group is secretly funding high profile democratic influencers,
an initiative aimed at boosting democrats online offers influencers up
to eight thousand dollars a month to push the party line.
All they have to do is youake an secret and
agree to restrictions on their content. And you know, it
goes through a list of people who are doing it.
(17:54):
It's a real who's who. It's people like David Pacman,
Brian Tyler Cohen, more youth DNC influencers like Olivia Juliana.
And there's been a lot of pushback, a lot of
response videos and where are we right now in this drama?
Speaker 11 (18:14):
Ryan, Well, now you're in the as is common with
a Taylor Lorenz article, you're about in your fourth or
fifth phase. It's every single time. So basically what a
lot of the people involved say is Brian Tyler Cohen
(18:35):
and some others like, it's not secret, We've done videos
about it. Chorus has a website you can apply for
a chorus. Basically, what this is is democratic adjacent and
I think the DNC actually took over Chorus. Kamala Harris
campaign took over Chorus during the presidential campaign. And there's
now some actual internally, I've there's some struggle over at
(18:56):
like different party factions like want to want to have
the relationships with these different creators. And so there's a
couple different things going on. One would be you know,
regular stipends to people to say certain things or to
not say other things. The other would be stipends for
(19:18):
training to lift people up so that they can be
independent content creators.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And that mean like like, oh, here's how to make
a thumbnail, here's how to like.
Speaker 11 (19:28):
Yeah, no, no, like no, but this is like this
is not dumb, like this is what the right has done.
That it that it takes time to build up your
audience and to build up the skills so that you're
self sustaining as an independent.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
Creator like that.
Speaker 11 (19:43):
Anybody who's tried to do it from scratch will tell
you that, like you're paying rent. I mean, how are
you gonna pay rent? Like on day one of with
zero followers?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Well you don't, you you you have it's a side
job till it's a full job, like it with everyone
else that's writing, right.
Speaker 11 (20:02):
And so so what Brian Tyler Cohen and others went
and they basically went to these very rich people and said,
why don't you fund this network that will then seed
people and help get them off the ground.
Speaker 9 (20:15):
The people that are doing the funding.
Speaker 11 (20:16):
Obviously, then are going to fund people that they think
are going to be beneficial to what they want. Uh
So that and that's where the corruption comes in. But
go ahead, well no.
Speaker 12 (20:28):
It's gonna so I'll get to the right later. But
if you could explain, so sixteen thirty fund, how are
they organized? And how is course organized? Are we talking packs?
Are we talking to c threes fours?
Speaker 4 (20:39):
What's going on?
Speaker 11 (20:40):
Sixteen thirty funds a dark money group? So you don't know,
like I mean, you know some of the donors who've
been public in the past. Enormous, enormous dark money organization
that is linked directly to the Democratic Party and it
but it does not have to disclose its payments because
that's yes, that's what a dark money group is. And
(21:03):
so sixteen thirty fund is funding Chorus and so that's
where the dark money connection comes from. So the argument
that some of these creators are making is this has
all been public. We have said we need to create
a partisan network of creators like Democratic partisans.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Basically, Yeah, we got David Packman here, let's take a
listen to him for a second.
Speaker 15 (21:30):
It's for years I've been saying the left needs to
organize independent media in the way.
Speaker 9 (21:38):
That all these words are insane, needs.
Speaker 15 (21:41):
To fund independent the way that the right does. The
right has won even arguably presidential elections because they're organized
with regard to online and independent media.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
They're killing us.
Speaker 15 (21:55):
We've been so behind, and this kind of support for
creators is exactly what I've been advocating for.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
But what is the like and keep going back to
this question, what is the support, because like, I don't
think that's.
Speaker 9 (22:10):
Eight thousand dollars a month.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
I think no, no, no, I get no, I get
the money. I get that part.
Speaker 9 (22:15):
But I'm talking about like, yeah, they had trainings, right.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
But the trainings, I'm like, I don't buy that some
random Democrat company knows how to do a YouTube thumbnail
or like knows how to like do well.
Speaker 9 (22:26):
They would hire other creators. They hire other content creators.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
Well.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
To me, it seems like more like about My guess
is that the majority of the trainings that happen here
are messaging are like here's what here's what we talk about,
here's how we like to talk about it. We want
to push democracy, we want to support the Democratic Party.
We don't want to be divisive we don't want to
(22:52):
create circle like firing squads.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
You know, I don't.
Speaker 11 (22:56):
Know, Like as Shompsky always says, like you don't need
the genius of that. Like there's this famous interview that
Glenn likes to play. Yeahere he's we played it for
Don Lemon. Yeah, we played it for Don Lemon, where
this hack is like telling telling Chompsky, you think that
I have this job because I've agreed to say certain
(23:17):
things and because I've been trained to say certain things.
And Chompsky says, no, of course not. But you have
this job because they know you're going to say these things,
and the things are obvious, like to me, you don't
need to be trained in what like Democratic Party talking
points are so everybody knows them. Let's see if Olivia
Juliana has a response yet. I was checking her Twitter feed,
(23:40):
but go ahead.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
But Emily, you go first.
Speaker 12 (23:42):
I haven't literally pulled up, but I mean I always
thought I have a bookmarked of course Olivia Juliana's Twitter feed,
but it's in the In the Wired story, the line
is creators in the program are not allowed to use
any funds or resources that they receive as part of
the program to make content that supports or opposes any
political candidate or campaign without express authorization from course, in
(24:06):
advance and in writing per the contract. So one of
the functions here might be like a little catch and
kill action. You're not going to get involved in a primary.
You're not going to get involved with mom Donnie. In fact,
you actually might not be able to talk about mom
Donnie if you know you're on the streaming equipment that
(24:27):
you bought with part of your eight thousand dollars a month,
or you're using your stream yard subscription that you bought
with part of your eight thousand dollars a month. Because
even though everybody's talking about Zara Mamdanni, you could run
a foul of that. And Wired has a pretty hefty
update correction on the article as his customer point Ryan
(24:48):
was making.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
But that is not among them that there's no.
Speaker 12 (24:52):
Nothing has been corrected to that point yet, and so
I think that's a sort of crucial bit of information.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, exactly, Like if they're not teaching you how to
make YouTube thumbnails, that's my whole point.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
They're teaching they are.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I mean, okay, maybe, but like how much of that
I don't know it seems like a they probably don't
know how to do most of that. I work in
a lot of media companies where corporations want to start
a successful YouTube channel, they have no idea the space
or the platform or the mechanics in the way that
someone who's just grinding on their own doing it every
day analyzing the space. Same with TikTok as well. So, yeah,
(25:28):
it leads me to believe that the majority of this
is closer to what Emily just described.
Speaker 11 (25:32):
But the way that corruption generally works is it's much
more subtle than that. Yeah, that that point is key,
Like Okay, like they're making it very clear, like if
it wasn't clear already, we are the Democratic Party. You're
gonna you're gonna get money from us, and you're gonna
do things that make the Democratic Party happy. Now, there's
(25:52):
a couple creators in this list that they pointed to
since who have been critical of Gaza, But that just
means that they accept some people that go to the
training and then continue to be critical of the Democratic
Parties platform towards KAZA. Corruption doesn't mean that it influences
every single person. Some people take a pac money and
(26:13):
vote against a pack like it happens, but that but
the the idea is that you tilt the scales enough
that some, you know, some are going to get away.
But so and it's not just the eight thousand a month,
and it's not just the amount that you spend and
what you can spend making videos.
Speaker 6 (26:29):
It's future.
Speaker 11 (26:31):
So much of corruption in America is about the promise
of future wealth too, where they where they string you along,
and like that's how members of Congress are are thoroughly
corrupted that they know that if they do the right
thing while they're in office, once they leave office, they're
going to be very, very rich people.
Speaker 12 (26:53):
There's a great documentary on HBO called The Swamp that
it's actually like AOC's in it at the time. The
woman from California, Oh I forget her name is Katie Hill,
Katie Hill yep, Matt Gates and Thomas Massey and Thomas
Massey at one point walks out of the RNC, stands
in the middle of First Street and he's he's literally
(27:15):
straddling Capitol Hill Club and RNC and RCC and he's like,
this is how this is the actual architecture, the physical
construction of Washington that when you walk out of the
party headquarters, you are walking right past the fundraising bar essentially,
and that is I feel like the proximity is so powerful.
Speaker 6 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I mean my last thought is when I see a
lot of the creators on this list, I've always thought, Man,
I hope they're getting paid for this.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
It's so pathetic.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's like it's like you're doing the stanky leg at
the d NC. You're I hope you're getting paid for that.
Like do you think Horace is telling Brian Tyler Cohen
to unbutton his shirt more and more?
Speaker 11 (28:03):
Brian like he you know, he helped create Chorus, Like
that's the weird part about this. Uh. He is a
hardcore partisan Democrat, right Like. Nobody needs to tell him
to be a hardcore partisan demograt.
Speaker 9 (28:17):
That is what he is.
Speaker 11 (28:19):
He tried and so he's trying to build a network
of hardcore partis and Democrats and get Democrats to fund it,
right like. And it's happening out mostly in the open.
It's cool that she got some of these contracts and stuff.
But I just kind of he calls it the left,
which is he calls it left and independent, and in
his mind, I think he believes that, but it's to us,
(28:42):
we're like, I'm sorry, what.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Media I want to specific because he mentions like how
the right succeeded so well, and and I think there
is like you know, we've like seen Tim Poole or
other people have gotten like you know, those big fundings and.
Speaker 9 (28:57):
Stuff Daily Wire like it was enormous funding.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Daily Wire for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
But like my senses of like the whole podcast thing
with Trump was like, you know, a lot of this
was like people who like made a platform on their
own and were kind of culturally right, like like Rogan
Theovon Andrew Schultz, Like they weren't like bred in like
a right wing chorus like Think Tank to get to
(29:25):
their size.
Speaker 15 (29:26):
Right.
Speaker 12 (29:26):
Yes, So I think this is this does drive me
a little bit insane because of course, there are situations
like the Tenant media scandal. I think that was like
five high profile creators like Tim Poole, Benny Johnson, lorn
Chen something like that, and they were just over the
last couple of years after they were already big, cashing
(29:47):
out for just dumb sums of money that they didn't
need to be famous.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
They it was just like patting their bottom line.
Speaker 12 (29:54):
It was like ridiculous, but they were already prominent and famous,
and the reason that the right has a podcast ecosystem
that's booming. If you look at the podcast charts, this
gets misunderstood a lot. You have the Daily, NPR Atlantic,
All of those guys are up there, right alongside Megan Kelly,
Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, whomever.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Ols.
Speaker 12 (30:16):
It's because the right was forced the right during the
like wave of cancel culture was forced out of those
outlets and so was forced to create independent outlets.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
And sometimes those quote independent outlets.
Speaker 12 (30:30):
Are made by money from like rich Republicans. Of course,
in the same way that George Soros at one point
didn't he have like a controlling stake in the New
York Times company?
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Ryan like it was.
Speaker 12 (30:43):
It's it's not an insane comparison, even though it's on
a much smaller scale. But yeah, partisan Republicans support you know,
like a Paul Singer funds the Washington Free Break, Washington
Free Beacon, and partisans I'm trying to think of it
a daily.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
Wirefunder Brian Tyler Cohen number ten. Yeah.
Speaker 12 (31:04):
Yeah, but if you go to like yeah news podcasta
mm hmmm, yeah, look at that, so I just think
that's This is a classic example of partisan centrist Democrats
missing like, look at I've Had It, that's an example
of what they should be doing, not or that's.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
An example of yeah, there we are. That's an example.
Speaker 9 (31:28):
I'll take that.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Travis kelcey, Oh, does that mean our marriage News did
better than his?
Speaker 6 (31:36):
Wow?
Speaker 12 (31:38):
But like Timpoole and I've Had It, those are examples
of podcasts that actually are going to be more powerful.
I'm not saying that it's strategically dumb for Dems to
fund this, this vast network, but what they actually are
looking for is people like Kyle for example, he's very successful.
They just don't consider Kyle a W for Democrats, and
(31:59):
they shouldn't in the same way that they don't necessarily
consider I've Had It a W for Democrats and The Right.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Is all they which is hilarious because both those podcasts,
like all all their advice is how the Democrats can win,
how they can like get back up on their feet.
Speaker 12 (32:15):
I just is this and like Republicans just seepool and
Benny as are or as as ours, yes, as ours,
but also as w's because they understand they're moving the needle.
But these were people who were forced out of the
quote mainstream for various reasons, some good, some bad, and
that's what happened. It wasn't this like puppet master. There
(32:36):
are puppet masters, but that wasn't the the fuel for
what happened on the right, gotcha?
Speaker 6 (32:43):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Well, uh, you know this. We always loved to Taylor
lorenz and and willing to poke the beehives. I saw
her TikTok alive yesterday where she was getting swarm by
the haters. Sou you know. Always got to tip my
hat to that. All right, Well, up next I should bounce. Yeah,
(33:07):
Ryan's gonna bounce. We have an interview we just did
with doctor Mohammad Khalil, who was a doctor who just
got back from his third trip in Gaza. So look
forward to that right now. All right, we are now
joined by doctor Mohammad Khalil. He's a spine surgeon from
Dallas and he has just gotten back from his correct
me if I'm wrong, third trip to Gaza. Welcome to
(33:30):
the show, doctor.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, and so I guess you know you let you.
You said a list of things that we could ask
you about, but I guess we just first wanted to
ask you, uh, what was it like getting in and
out of Gaza this most recent.
Speaker 14 (33:43):
Times, it's actually become increasingly difficult. On the very first
trip that I went to to Gaza in April of
twenty four, we went through the rough up order, so
we were able to bring in a lot of equipment.
When I went back in November as well as this time,
you're pretty restricted on what you can bring in. The
instructions are to just bring one suit case, one carry
(34:06):
on and it's limited to personal supplies. Logistically, it can
be quite a challenge getting there, just because you can
get a seed from the WHO as far as getting
on the UN convoy, but you don't know until the
night before if you're cleared by CogAT, which is the
arm of Yezuela military that controls movement within Gaza, and
(34:29):
so that clearance doesn't come in until about ten or
eleven pm the night before. You're supposed to move at
six in the morning. So we all go to am
On and we find out that night if we're getting in.
Last time I went in November, one of my buddies
was supposed to go with me and he got turned
around and had to come back to Dallas.
Speaker 11 (34:44):
When you when you first got there, you sent me
a text that has kind of sat with me since then.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
Tell tell tell people what the doctor told you.
Speaker 11 (34:55):
See if you remember this what the doctor who us house,
the Palcitian doctor told you about whether or not you're
going to have an eventful shift or not. Like, how
how did doctors know whether or not their shift is
going to be?
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Oh, yeah, it's this time around.
Speaker 14 (35:12):
It's almost a direct correlation with the ghf A distribution
as well as when a truck would come through this
key border. So they would say, I mean, his his words,
where if you're lucky, there will be no a distribution tonight.
If you're unlucky, the yar is going to overflow. And
I mean he was one hundred percent right. I mean,
I think you know when I had gone before in November,
(35:34):
we were at the same hospital at Ali up North,
and it was mostly blast injuries from drone strikes and airstrikes.
This time it was a good mix of blast injuries
as well as these gunshot wounds from these eight distribution sites.
Speaker 6 (35:46):
I think everyone knows that.
Speaker 14 (35:48):
I mean, they describe him as death traps and they
tell people not to go, but there's such a dire
need with the malnutrition and starvation that people are just
they're just taking their chances and going and seeing that
they can retrieve something.
Speaker 11 (36:02):
Yeah, so I just want to sit sort of for
one second. So like here here in the United States,
if it's Friday or Saturday or like New New Year's
Eve or something, you tell me like the e rs
know to brace themselves like there are going to be
more people in you or maybe it's like New Orleans
for the Super Bowl or something like we're gonna.
Speaker 9 (36:20):
Get, We're gonna have.
Speaker 11 (36:21):
It's gonna be a it's probably going to be a
busier night than than a typical night in Gozen. Nowt
if there is an AID distribution site open for a
few hours, the e rs brace themselves.
Speaker 9 (36:38):
Rele time and did that bear out?
Speaker 11 (36:40):
Like in your in your case, if the AID dislution
site was open, was his forecast correct?
Speaker 9 (36:46):
Like did you did? You then get a oh, overwhelmed.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
Exactly that that happened every time.
Speaker 14 (36:52):
And the thing is that they're already overwhelmed, uh because
you know one example is Shifa Hospital that was destroyed
when I was there on the prior visit in November,
and since then they've been able to get the er
back up and running to some degree. And they have
you know, two hundred semi functioning beds. And when I
(37:12):
say beds, I mean these are stretchers with no mat
on them, like we actually, after operating on a patient
would put them back on a hard you know, plastic
or metal stretcher with no mattress. And I mean but
in those beds they had over six hundred patients, so
they're running at two hundred and fifty three hundred percent capacity.
So when these rs would fill up, I mean these
are patients laid on the floor getting chest tuubs put in,
(37:33):
getting procedures done. And so I mean every time there
was an eight distribution, you'd have just so many patients
on the floor. We would literally have to be walking
over patients walking through the er.
Speaker 12 (37:47):
Emily, you're mute, having done multiple trips at this point,
what difference did you notice when it comes to famine
and hunger? Can you share your experience in treating patients
and whether or not you saw an increase in people
suffering from malnutrition and starvation?
Speaker 14 (38:07):
Yeah, certainly, you know, it takes a lot of calories
to heal injuries and to heal wounds. And so this
time around, the amount of people that were just visibly malnourished,
with you know, very skinny arms and legs, like visible
ribs was very apparent, and you knew that a number
(38:30):
of these injuries were going to end up infected, and
they would end up infected very quickly. Like patients that
we operated on the beginning of the trip, we're coming
back for washouts within a week or so, and it's
just usually you don't see infections developed that quickly because
the body tries to fight off infection. So I mean
there's a remarkable level of malnutrition even among the people
that we're working with. I mean this time around, like
(38:52):
I met a lot of the same doctors and hospital
staff that I worked with before, and they've just lost
even more weight. So you know, when they come in
for a hug, can you can feel their their finest
processes at the back, you could feel their ribs, and
a lot of people will will, you know, show you
what they look like before.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
They lost all the weight.
Speaker 14 (39:10):
And I mean the weight loss is dramatic even among
the staff, you know, I mean, even like one of
the last cases that we actually did.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
It's outside of orthopedics.
Speaker 14 (39:20):
It was actually our anesthesia one of the anesthesia techts,
sweetest lady, always smiling. The day before we left Ali Hospital,
I went down to the OAR and she was very
somber and walked into the room and the neurosurgeon was
operating on her husband who had been shot at an
eight distribution site. Like her husband was also an anesthesia
tech at Kamala Dwan Hospital did not leave when a
(39:42):
patient was in the OAR. Was kidnapped for seven months
in Israeli prison. She didn't know where he was and
and then he showed up one day, so she was
happy to have him back. But then he went to
an AID distribution and got shot in the head. So
I mean even the staff that were working with their
suffering the same starvation that people are.
Speaker 9 (40:01):
How and did he die?
Speaker 6 (40:03):
How?
Speaker 9 (40:03):
How did he survive the gunshot?
Speaker 14 (40:06):
Miraculously he survived, Like we were getting updates from uh
now Like so the neurosurgeon at one of our ORSPETA
surgeons scrubbed into the case as well and they picked
out trapannel and uh, you know, he had exposed brain matters,
so they were taking out pieces of the skull from
from the brain and he ended up in you know,
in the I c U. When we checked on him
right before we left, he was still non responsive, but
(40:28):
now he is responsive, still not communicative, but able to
follow commands.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
What about your own safety, you know, I mean, we've
been covering a lot this week, the double tap strike
at the Alnasre hospital that took out you know, medics
and journalists. Some reports are now saying it may have
been a triple or even quadruple tap BBC.
Speaker 11 (40:50):
BBC found of quadruple two tanks. It keeps, it just
keeps going up. So how did you feel about your
own safety? And I guess sort of a part two
of this.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Question is, you know you come on shows like ours
after these experiences to share them. Do you feel like
the Israeli government is starting to become aware of that?
Are you worried that they may not let you back
in another time?
Speaker 14 (41:14):
I think the first question, yeah, there were definitely this
time around.
Speaker 6 (41:18):
We had more.
Speaker 14 (41:19):
Close calls than on prior trips. You know, when you
go up north, you have to go between hospitals to
get cases done, So like I did a few spine cases,
I would have to go to another hospital called Sajava,
so they you know, load you up into an ambulance
and drive you over to do the cases. And so
the last trip I was a little bit more liberal
(41:39):
and going around town and you know, there were a
couple of close calls just do that. But this time,
you know, there were various We're in a privileged position
being American and European teams. They take our safety as
a high priority, both on the UN side as well
as on the side of the other Palestinian teams, and
probably from the Israelis as well because their drones overhead,
(42:02):
not like continuously, they always know, I think, where we
are and so but there were a few times where
there were strikes very close to us because we were
in Gaza City. I think there was that the push
to invade the city. So there were a couple of
air strikes in the building adjacent to us. I saw,
you know, a drone strike happen in an apartment that
(42:25):
was that was in the building adjacent to our dormitory.
We did, you know, the day that we were leaving,
our UN convoy was delayed. You know, you have to
wait for a green light to move, so we got
loaded up into the cars and then somebody came by inside.
Speaker 6 (42:39):
It's gonna be in another thirty forty minutes.
Speaker 14 (42:41):
I want to wait outside for me and one of
my one of my colleagues that that came with us,
walked around to the back of the convoy just to talk.
And one of our teammates was in stayed in the
car because he was taking a nap, and there was
a drone strike just a few hundred meters away that
like rocked the cars, and somebody from the OCHA Center
out and said that the convoy got hit.
Speaker 6 (43:02):
So we freaked out.
Speaker 14 (43:02):
And we were because we knew we knew he stayed
in the car, but luckily it was it was a
little bit away, but there were definitely some some close
calls this time. I think, you know, we again we
have this this sense of security that because we're American
and European, and I think for the hospitals, they also
see it as some sense of security that when you know,
(43:23):
when we leave as as a team, they're more nervous
about being invaded. So whenever there was a strike, I
think Al Jazeera reported on one of the Sundays that
there was a strike in front of the hospital. There
was some talk of having us move back down south,
but that's what we were saying, like, you know, if
we can serve some protective uh purpose, then it's it's
good for us to just finish out the mission and
(43:44):
stay where stay put where we were.
Speaker 6 (43:46):
I think speaking up is an interesting question.
Speaker 14 (43:49):
Like, you know, when you arrive, you get a debris
a brief from the from the you know, the teams
that have that are coordinating your travel, uh from the
un w h O, and they say specifically not to
use certain buzzwords and not to assign blamed to anything.
But then when you do these these interviews, people will
last pretty directly, and then you're kind of stuck in
(44:09):
a hard position where you're like you're you're the reporter. Yeah,
I mean, you know, you know who's doing the shooting
and stuff. But it's, uh, it's kind of a unique
uh situation to be in. But I think at this stage,
you know, it's anybody who's following the conflict. I don't
think there's too many questions as to the responsible parties.
And when we are there, you know, they a lot
(44:29):
of the doctors they're there and and staff that we
work with they're like, you know, one of the biggest
purposes that you serve is going back out to the
world and explaining what's going on here, because it's not
it's not right for anybody to live under these conditions.
And they're they're very cognizant of what's going on around
the world, like and so we feel compelled to to
speak up and at least report what we saw, Like
i mean, one of one of the girls, for example,
(44:51):
like it's it's actually pretty hopeful, like she she's a
general surgeon, you know, great surgeon, like very calm, collected, cool.
We were she wants to be a plastic surgeon. We
were like, oh you get that, definitely do it, like
you know down the road, like take your USM A
league and even get it. You might be able to
come out to America re training. And she's like, yeah,
I know, my brother lives in California. Like the these
are normal people that are not like, you know, cut
(45:12):
off from the rest of the world.
Speaker 6 (45:13):
They know what's going on.
Speaker 11 (45:15):
And speaking of bringing back some of the disturbing stories,
one of the things you shared with us, I wanted
to get your get you to elaborate on for us.
Let me see if I can share this and if not,
we could have some.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Kind of in post ran But yeah, actually is this working.
Speaker 9 (45:29):
You guys can see this right?
Speaker 6 (45:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 11 (45:31):
Yeah, So this is I would call these photos disturbing,
but not overly graphic. This is a This is an
X ray of a sixteen year old girl wounds from
what you said was a shooting at a GHF site,
Kazi Humanitarian Foundation site. You told us that you observed
(45:52):
a pattern of victims coming in who were shot in
the genitals, suggestive of some type of depraved target practice.
So this is one we can talk about this in
a moment. This is a twelve year old boy who
(46:13):
is being operated on. You talk a little bit about
what kind of injuries you were seeing this time from
the GHF site.
Speaker 14 (46:24):
Yeah, so, I mean a lot of the you know,
it's a mix of blast injuries and gunshot wounds, and
I think for the gunshot wounds in particular, that's there
is this feeling that there there's a target practice being done,
because there will be they'll come in waves. So in
the course of two days, we had three patients with
(46:45):
gunshot wounds to the scrotum that had to have an
orchaectomy or a testicle rooved. And so we were talking
to the urologists and he was like, it just happens
periodically where you'll get a wave of these shots right
to the testicle, There'll be waves of shots right to
the head.
Speaker 5 (47:00):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (47:00):
And you know, I think there is.
Speaker 14 (47:03):
The suggestion is is that these kids are being used
for target practice. I think there's uh, you know, there
is some concept of just spraying into the crowd with
with gunshots, and so that can be a little bit random.
But when it comes in waves like that, the physicians
there are they suspect that this is this is targeted
because these are snper what I just showed there, right, yeah, exactly,
(47:29):
and these bullets are large caliber bullets and so I
mean it's you know, coming from a sniper rifle like
it does quite a bit of damage. One of the
spines that I operated on was like a sniper shot
that I mean, the bullet is huge and it just
does an immense amount of damage.
Speaker 13 (47:44):
Uh.
Speaker 14 (47:44):
So that this was an unstable spine where the poster
elements were just completely blasted from a from a gunshot
wound and you just have to kind of span it
with screws and rods, but it's uh, the nature of
the injuries from these high powered rifles is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
And so it looked like sniper fire.
Speaker 14 (48:01):
Yeah yeah, I mean, I think with the large caliber bullet,
that's the suspicions that is coming from a sniper rifle.
Speaker 11 (48:09):
And you also showed us this miraculous one here. I'll
put up where you said this was shrapnel that came
This was a spine surgeon before you did this, when
you said you described this one here exactly.
Speaker 6 (48:24):
So one of the neurosurgeons at.
Speaker 14 (48:29):
The hospital, like he had done this case a few
weeks prior actually, and this was a piece of shrapnel
that had entered the skull and traveled through the frame
and magnum and lodged itself in the cervical spine. So
he first operated on the patient for a head bleat
and then came back a couple of days later and
retrieved this piece of shrapnel from the cervical spine, and remarkably,
(48:51):
the patient regained function. So he was able to kind
of move with four out of five strength in his
lower extremities in one arm and the other arm remained paralyzed.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
But you know, he was in a.
Speaker 14 (49:01):
It's actually a really kind of a sweet story, like he, uh,
you know, when we got done with cases, he went
to he said, we had to go, I got to
go do something. So him and the word the attending usurgeon,
the attending orth thepeed surgeon actually went, you know, left
us and then we saw him in the hospital courtyard.
Because they had physically gone to take this patient out
(49:21):
of his bed and put him in a wheelchair so
his family could wheel him around. We were like, nowhere
else in the world would see the attending surgeons like
go physically mobilize a patient. That's what they were saying,
like these are these are our kids. You know, we
have to look beyond just a physical injury. And any
sixteen year old just laying in bed shouldn't be Uh,
it's not good for his mental health. So they forced
the family to kind of get him out and pull
(49:41):
him around in a wheelchair. But it's really a miraculous case,
like you wouldn't expect anyone to survive that type of
an injury.
Speaker 11 (49:48):
You also sent this one what what's the uh.
Speaker 6 (49:52):
That's the same piece of shrapnel the travel through the head.
Speaker 14 (49:55):
You can see the track that it took it went
into the frame and Magnum dirrectly got it.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Doctor, Like, you know, if I got shot with a
sniper bullet, I'm sure it would be a very long
recovery post the operation. You know, with a lot of
these people you're operating on, they're getting sent once they're
done operated on, even if it's successful, they're being thrust
back out into a war zone with little food or water.
What's your sense of people's ability to survive after these wounds,
(50:23):
even if you do patch them up.
Speaker 14 (50:26):
So, yeah, that's the thing is, like, it's it's a
long drawn out recovery for a lot of these things,
and unfortunately they're going back into a situation where they're
living in a tent without food. There are extended hospital
stays for some patients who just really need it, and
they're trying right now in the healthcare system to develop
a you know, this WUFFA hospital as a rehab hospital
(50:50):
that they're trying to convert into more of a longer
term stay for people to recover.
Speaker 6 (50:53):
But it's not online yet.
Speaker 14 (50:55):
It was actually damaged in a strike before, and so
they're trying to get it back online and to be
able to provide some long term care.
Speaker 6 (51:02):
But a lot of these patients.
Speaker 14 (51:03):
They just go back out and they have to you know,
figure it out on their own. I mean, even some
of the fractures that come in, like as fresh fractures,
Normally they would get admitted here in the in the
US or in the West, they're just getting a splint
put on and being sent back home to follow up
again when we can fit them on the R schedule.
(51:23):
But the inflow of traumatic injuries just makes it to
where some of these patients are waiting for months with
an injury that never gets treated.
Speaker 11 (51:34):
Well, doctor Khalil, we really appreciate you know, the work
you're doing, and also appreciate you, you know, filling us
in here. I hope you're re entry is as smooth
as possible. Have you heard anything from your colleagues that
are still there that they want to share as a
like a final word.
Speaker 14 (51:53):
Yeah, I mean I think, like you know that's there.
There's been a number of doctors that have been denied.
I think their denial rate is getting up to fifty
sixty percent likely, and so you know, I think like
going going in, like is going in.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
And what are they getting denied for? Like are they
bringing band aids or what are they getting denied for.
Speaker 14 (52:11):
There's no explanation. So a lot of times, like you
get denied before you even get to the border. If
you get denied at the border, it's because of you know,
bringing in something or they say like you have, you know,
something that might be dual used, like an ultrasound to
do fast exams in the er, or to check for
bleeds in the er. Most of the time the denialt
before you get to the border, before you even get
on the UN convoy, and there's no explanation, So there
(52:33):
is some suspicion that some of it may be doing
interviews and reporting on what was seen. I wish, you know,
journalists like yourselves could enter Gaza, Like I think once
you go there, like it's hard to describe in words
the camaraderie that you get from the people that are
working on the ground there these other healthcare professionals, but
it's uh, you know, I think at this point everyone
(52:55):
is pretty committed to speaking up because a lot of
the doctors there kind of see it. Physicians, hospital staff
talking to them. They almost see it as an endgame
at this point, like they're like, you know, when we
talked about gods the city being invaded directly ask some
people like do you think it's going to get invaded?
And one of the one of the guys was like,
it's it's unlikely because why would Israel accept more personnel
(53:15):
losses to take over something that's already this destroyed. But yeah,
into doing it anyway, exactly, exactly, And for a lot
of those docs that's the there there. We always ask
like what can we do when we go back, and
it's always the same answer, like just don't forget us
and tell the world what's happening here.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Okay, Well, thank you very much doctor for your time
here today, your time in the past telling our audience
about this and uh we wish you in the medical
community lack as they try to do what they can
out there.
Speaker 6 (53:46):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 12 (53:47):
Well, thanks everyone for joining us this Friday. We have
a great second half of the show coming up. If
you want to see that, it's Breakingpoints dot com. They
get a premium subscription. We love having those paywald conversations
with our Pretty Mum subscribers on Friday because we get
to do a lot of back and forth question and
answers and cover more important stories So for example, today
(54:07):
we'll be covering Jake Sullivan's interview with Tim Miller on
the Bulwark podcast. We'll be covering absolutely hilarious mega viral
clip also from Podsave about just this is a perfect
abundance discourse clip about a LA City council woman and
affordable housing and Griffin the last story we're going to cover.
(54:30):
I'm having a Rick Perry moment and I'm trying to
draw out this outro until I remember what the last
story is.
Speaker 5 (54:37):
Well, I'm I'm gonna force it. Gavin Coin.
Speaker 4 (54:41):
That's why I forgot it because it's so ridiculous. But no, truly,
he's threatening to launch a meme coin.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
And speaking of investing, folks, invest in Breaking Points so
we don't have to take a big chorus deal so
you don't have to see Emily at the DNC doing
a TikTok dance.
Speaker 9 (54:55):
Okay, we didn't do.
Speaker 12 (54:56):
We were at the DNC thanks to our premium subs,
but we did not do we TikTok dances and we.
Speaker 5 (55:01):
Did not dance.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
So if you know, if you want us to maintain
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