8/6/25: New Epstein House Pics, Trump Greenlights Gaza Conquest, Panic Over Jobs Report & MORE!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,
and we are so excited about what that means for
the future of this show.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the only place where you can find honest
perspectives from the left and the right that simply does
not exist anywhere else.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
So if that is something that's important to you, please
go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and
you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,
and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
We need your help to build the future of independent
news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
dot com.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
All right, good morning and welcome to Breaking Points. How
you doing, Emily great?

Speaker 4 (00:37):
How is your family reunion?

Speaker 5 (00:39):
It was lovely, good time.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Missed everybody here, all the grims of one place, and
I had a.

Speaker 5 (00:43):
Bunch of people were like, is Ryan ever coming back?
It's like, guys, it's one week. Come on, well you
were in Ireland.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
People were probably, well, that's.

Speaker 5 (00:49):
True, I was an Ireland.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
Never mind, but here you are.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
I'm back.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
It's back and better than ever.

Speaker 5 (00:53):
Okay, we can have we'll see I'm back.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
We're not going to get a chance to cover the
versioning back and forth over the redistricting, which if you
want to check out the context of that, you can
look at the segment that A.

Speaker 5 (01:09):
Sager and I did yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
But essentially Texas is now asking the FBI to arrest
the Democrats who have fled to Illinois, no reason why.
I'm completely unclear what federal crime would be involved here. Meanwhile,
Texas governor has gone to the Supreme Court to try
to basically get the Democrats kicked out of elected office.

(01:31):
They have left the state to deny a quorum so
that Republicans can't use the quorum to redistrict the state
in the middle of the ten year period. California and
New York are responding by saying, well, if you're going
to redistrict, then so are we.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
That's basically what's going on.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, it's another doom spiral, but not the first time
this has happened. Before we get into the news, run
and I just have to say, you took another trip
to club's sleigh.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yes exactly, we're talking with us yesterday. Whenever you go
on vacation with your daughters, you're probably going to come
back with.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
Your nails done for free, they get bored.

Speaker 5 (02:05):
It's a real upside.

Speaker 6 (02:06):
Yes.

Speaker 7 (02:06):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Another thing we won't get to talk about real quickly
the strike, the Boeing strike against today.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah, thirty two hundred Boeing workers striking in Saint Louis.
So that's when to keep an eye on, and we
will definitely be keeping an eye on it. Here some
really big updates in the Epstein case. It feels like
we say that every single day, but yesterday The New
York Times published some absolutely wild pictures from inside Jeffrey
Epstein's Manhattan townhouse. We have details on Galline Maxwell right now,

(02:34):
thinking about whether or not she wants that transcript that
we know was or the recording that we know the
Department of Justice could easily release as a transcript, and
our debating whether or not to do so. Galline Maxwell
is saying no, So we will dive into all of that.
We have new Trump comments on everything as well. And
Ryan Martin Gottsfeld is back with us.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yes, he served in the same prison where Epstein died.
He read through the entire ig report that looked into
the prison conditions and the cameras and the layout, and
he found a bunch of different things that he believes
are significant discrepancies that an eyewitness can be helpful to

(03:15):
shed light on. I also spoke to a prisoner or
an inmate who served on the specific wing where Epstein was,
So I'll talk about that with god Hasfeld.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yeah, and important news because the penas were issued yesterday.
We'll talk about this for some people who might know
what happened with the prison investigation. Now, Trump did a
wild interview on CNBC yesterday and then wandered up to
the roof of the White House. So we will break
down his comments on the economy, on immigration, and we'll
try to get to the bottom of why he was

(03:49):
at the top of the White House. Also, news about
the US AID plan in Gaza. Donald Trump says he
just now wants or report suggest us that he wants
the United States basically to take over the process. So
we will bring you updates on that front. And Ryan
has Ryan and I both actually have little monologues to

(04:10):
do on the politics of Israel.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
Ryan's's bringing back the radars.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Yes, we're bringing back the riders. Ryan's is just stay tuned.
It involves cows.

Speaker 5 (04:20):
And Boris Johnsons minds a wild ride.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yeah, it sure is. And then Ryan more drop site
reporting Corey Mills is a up and coming Republican congressman
who may not be so up and coming anymore. It's
a fascinating drop site report on new details in his
down spiral.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
So Roger Solinberger has been investigating Mills, and the first
piece for drops I posted last night about actually just
wait for it.

Speaker 5 (04:47):
It's incredible, it is.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
It's really something. Miss miss Usa is involved in this one.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
I think that this guy's probably nuts. You're like, oh,
I didn't know the half of it.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yeah, or like the order of it. It just keeps.
Every time you think you have a complete picture, you don't.

Speaker 5 (05:03):
No, you don't, we don't.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Right now, some people leave lead some interesting lives. One
conclusion you will draw from this.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yes, now finally our guest, our second guest is going
to be Aaron Baker, who is Randy front Finds Republican
primary opponent down in Florida. So that race has garnered
a lot of attention, particularly online, because Baker has come
out against fines really atrocious posturing on the war in Gaza.

(05:30):
So Aaron Baker's going to join us to talk about
the dynamics of that race and whether or not he
can unseat Fine.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
And he's also kind of a diehard Israel supporter too,
which makes it interesting.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
We'll get into that, because even as we're teeing up
this segment, his candidacy is so new. I think it's
fair to say it's kind of an open question to
the extent that he remains in the same type of
pro Israel position a lot of Republicans were five years ago.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Be such a shame if Randy Fine was shown the door,
wouldn't it show the door?

Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, but he could get through it. Ooh, should I
not have said that? Ouch's okay, maybe we'll cut that one.
All right's dive in Ryan. The New York Times published
a hell of an Epstein story yesterday, with images from
inside his Manhattan townhouse and also a letter from the
one and only Woody Allen that was very bizarre, compiled

(06:24):
as this is so the director Woody Allen, The New
York Times rights described how the dinners at Epstein's house
this is a book for sixty third birthday, or a
collection of letters that people were sent in for his
sixty third birthday. According to New York Times, you know
what they say about the sixty third birthday. It's the
letter birthday. All your friends send you letters, even though
they did that for your fiftieth birthday. So Alan described

(06:47):
how dinners at Epstein's place reminded him of Dracula's Castle
quote where Lugosi has three young female vampires who service
the place he goes on. And this is again in
a letter to Epstein on the occasion of his sixty
third birthday to describe one of the just most bizarre

(07:07):
settings that you can imagine, where there's Chinese food buffets.
Did you read this letter?

Speaker 5 (07:14):
Ran I did not read the whole Woody Allen letter.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
It's written, it's I mean, there's nothing like huge in it.
It's just him talking about the meager portion sizes in
the Dracula Castle in a very coy Woody Allen way.
But the Times, of course included in addition to this
letter for Epstein's sixty third birthday pictures from his credenza

(07:37):
showing him with Pope John Paul, the second Fidel Castro,
Donald Trump, and a picture actually with Trump where Milania
is cropped out, Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Elon Musk, Richard Branson,
So The image that you see is basically Epstein flaunting
all of his famous wealthy friendships with different people. There's

(07:57):
a picture with Epstein not in it. All of pictures
mostly are Epstein himself, and he's included most of them
except for one that appears to be just Steve Bannon
and Woody Allen. It's extremely strange. Other pictures of Epstein's
upstairs residents, you see surveillance cameras peeking down at the bed.

Speaker 5 (08:18):
Edition of Lolita, first edition of Lolita, just.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Not really doing much at all to try to hide
his predilections, none at all, No to advertise them.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
Flooding them in front of Woody Allen, by the way,
who has his own questions every.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Whatever you think about what Woody Allen did, the public
perception of Woody Allen is settled.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Right, extremely weird stuff. Stuffed tiger also in the pictures.
Just a really unsettling story from the New York Times.
They're being very cagy about their sourcing on it. They
won't say how they got these images or even when
they got the images or where they're from. We know
that Woody Allen letter from the sixty third Birthday collection,

(09:02):
but a sort of an interesting image jump ran to come.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Out of and The Times had a line that I
that I liked that underlines why this is such a
story that won't go away, which was nobody's been able
to explain how he made his nine figure income. There's
no one else that I know of who has a
nine figure at worth that where you cannot begin to

(09:26):
explain it. And so when people are like, well, I
think that he may have had some connections two Intel
into the Intel world, because how else do you accidentally
land on a nine figure wealth and build a mansion
with a bunch of cameras everywhere, and then invite a

(09:47):
bunch of powerful people overdo compromising things like give me
something more logical, more.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
Obvious than that. It's then we'll entertain something else.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yes, then we'll entertain the other theory, give me something
Where do you get the money?

Speaker 4 (10:04):
The real conspiracy theory is that Les Wesner was having
expert money management services.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
From this high school teacher.

Speaker 4 (10:13):
Yeah, but has of course never addressed that or anything
at all. Yes, absolutely, Well, we also have Donald Trump
responding to some questions here yesterday on Epstein. We can
go ahead and roll a.

Speaker 6 (10:24):
Three, and I think he probably wants to make sure
that you know people that should not be involved or
aren't involved or not hurt by something that would be
very very unfortunate, very unfair to a lot of people.

Speaker 8 (10:36):
Were you aware of and did you personally approve the
prison transfer for Glaine Maxwell that your Justice department.

Speaker 6 (10:42):
I didn't know her about it at all.

Speaker 9 (10:43):
No, I read about it just like you did.

Speaker 6 (10:45):
And do you believe that she's not a very uncommon thing?

Speaker 8 (10:48):
Do you believe that she's credible to be listening to
your deputy attorney journal sat down with her recently.

Speaker 6 (10:53):
Well, he's let me tell you, he's a very talented man.
His name is Todd Blanche. She's a very legitimate person,
very high I just a very highly thought of person,
respected by everybody.

Speaker 4 (11:06):
Okay, So that's Trump referring obviously it's a deputy attorney
general talk Blanche who conducted those interviews with Glen Maxwell
were two day period where she was seen hauling a
box away from the discussions back into her prison. She
is now in a lower security prison in Texas, which
has been covered on the show as well. So Trump

(11:27):
is saying Ryan that Blanche and I think we actually
all understand that this is true, there are It's obviously
going to be the case that in the quote Epstein files,
whatever form they are, there will be names of people
who are not implicated in child sex traffic.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
He had one name in particular on his tongue. Can
you imagine we don't want people like Donald Trump, whose
name might be in there being unfairly tarred by what
we might release, So let's go ahead and not release anything.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
And we know that his name was among a group
of names that was being sort of actively redacted by
Justice Department lawyers who were working around the clock apparently
in the last several months to try to release something.
Because Pambondi sort of realized this was part of her
her portfolio, she would have to do something on it.

(12:24):
But there were a lot of redactions being made. The
problem is ryan we don't have I mean, we have
so little information from the government that we can't trust
that the government is redacting the names. And that's the
most obvious point. I mean, when can you ever trust
that they're redacting names of people who are just innocent. Yeah,
So that's a little bit of the issue, is you know,

(12:47):
if you're asking for that benefit of the doubt. I
don't think anybody's really in the mood to give it
to you.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
No, but if you're the president, and you can do
everything you can do with all the stuff as long.

Speaker 5 (12:57):
As you possibly can.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
And so that DJ did, under pressure meet with Glaine
Maxwell to hear her out. They're just you know, just
negotiating over better obviously better prison conditions in a better prison.

Speaker 5 (13:10):
You know what she can get and what she can give.
That conversation was recorded. You put up a four.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
There's now conversation about whether or not the Trump administration
will release transcripts of this hearing, which or this meeting, which,
as you said, Maxwell.

Speaker 5 (13:31):
Is objecting to.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
You can put up a five saying no way, like
do not want do not want to see this happen?
Interesting if they're already going to be at odds with Maxwell.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
Yes, very very interesting and also interesting, I mean obviously
that they are, according to CNN, debating whether or not
to release this. So this is from CNN's reporting. The
administration's handling of the Epstein case, as well as they
need to craft a unified response, is expected to be
a main focus of the dinner. Three sources familiar with
the meeting told CNN, So, this is apparently a meeting

(14:04):
that's happening tonight at the Vice President's mansion in DC.
So at the was it the Naval Naval Observatory, The
Naval Observatory that's right in Washington, and they're going to
be So this is CNN says, with the exception of Vance,
the White House considers those officials the leaders of the
administration's ongoing strategy regarding the Epstein files to the sources set,

(14:25):
so we can expects Tousey Wilds, Pam Bondi, Cash Betel,
and Todd Blanche himself to be at this meeting. And
CNN reports there have also been internal discussions about Blanche
holding a press conference or doing a high profile interview,
possibly with popular podcaster Joe Rogan, because that went so
well for Cash Betel. This is what's happening right now

(14:48):
and is being debated behind the scenes. The Justice Department,
according to CNN's reporting, is digitizing, transcribing, and redacting the
interview materials those are related to Glenn Maxwell, and they
are actually debating whether or not to publicly release information
from the Maxwell interview. There's over ten hours of audio,

(15:08):
according to a senior administration officials and quote portions of
that transcript could reveal sensitive details like victim names would
also have to be redacted, according to one of the officials.
Just a little additional tidbit here from CNN. They say
one official told them these are all unnamed officials. Of course,
that some of the conversation within the White House is
focused on whether making the deals the details from the

(15:29):
interview public would bring it the Epstein controversy back to
the surface. Many officials close to Trump believe the story
has largely died down. What world are they living in, Ryan,
where the story has largely died down and you have
both coverage in conservative media and the New York Times running,
for example, new details and new images. It's kind of

(15:51):
still across the board.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
And new polling out shows Trump down to thirty nine
percent among men, which is rock bottom, maybe ever for
him among men. And so the entire barriwise kind of
universe has been out saying, don't believe the podcast bros.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
When they tell you that people care.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
About Epstein, that it's fine, Trump can weather this storm.
Nobody actually cares about Epstein. What's he down at thirty
nine percent?

Speaker 10 (16:23):
Over?

Speaker 3 (16:23):
I mean Obviously there's a lot of other problems that
Trump is facing right now, headwinds all over the place.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
But this is.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
To say that he's at rock bottom among men while
this has been the dominant story in the media that
men listen to for the last month and young men
is absurd.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Yeah, right, yeah, I mean it's I think it's true
that some of the Russia collusion details have sucked up
some oxygen in the media. And I mean that's exactly.
I mean, Trump at one point said it was just
two weeks ago the which hunt you should be looking
at when he was asked about Epstein is what happened

(17:04):
to me during the Russia collusion investigation. Of course, both
of these can be true at the same time, but
it's they're not wrong. Some of the oxygen has been
sucked out of the room in conservative media, and I think,
you know, in some cases these stories are very important
to cover, but that doesn't mean the story has faded
to the background at all. I mean, you still see it,

(17:25):
people are still talking about it. It's still high profile,
and it would be a mistake, i think, probably to
assume that it's over and that it's you know, this
is the end of the line for Epstein. We can
all just move on if they don't.

Speaker 5 (17:39):
Talk about it, right, Yeah, good luck.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
With that, Ryan. We have Martin Gottsfeld, right, so we
can bring him in more.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Inmate who served in the MCC where Epstein also serves,
and we're going to run through the IG report that
was originally put out, which was published before we had
the footage of the cameras in the MCC. So we're
going to compare Martin's experience in there with the cameras

(18:09):
with the IG report.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Joining us back on the program is Martin Gottisfeld, activist, journalist,
and a former inmate at Metropolitan Correctional Center, which is
the prison where Jeffrey Epstein infamously famously met his end.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Marty, thanks for.

Speaker 9 (18:28):
Coming back, no prom thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
And so we wanted to have you back on because
you were able to go through the full IG report
and some of the subsequent media reporting about the IG
report that looked into the layout of MCC and the
camera situation, which is quite crucial. Like if you talk
to anybody who kind of casually follows this story, you

(18:55):
know they're familiar with this. The cameras, the famous camera
shot of the Epstein door, and then this also this
like little still footage of the of the desk where
the officers sit, and then this controversy around this, you know,
missing three minutes at midnight or.

Speaker 5 (19:14):
Whenever they kind of reset the camera.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
But what you seem to have observed here is that,
in fact, based on what you know about the layout
of the prison, uh and comparing it to what they
have published here, there were potentially two ways to get
directly to Epstein's cell that would not have been covered
by any recording cameras, And so the three minute thing

(19:40):
is actually kind of a distraction.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
Is that a fair summary? And then we can get
into the details.

Speaker 11 (19:47):
I mean, I don't know that the three minutes is
necessarily a distraction. I think it's potentially a red Harriett,
that's fair to say.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
But yeah, all right, so let's let's start actually with
the one of the ones you found here. It's the
it's labeled ninth floor South, and so.

Speaker 5 (20:05):
This will put this up on the screen.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
What do you see here in this in this layout,
so Epstein's cell is at one point and then ninth
floor South and yellow is highlighted.

Speaker 11 (20:17):
Okay, so this one, actually, the IG was just wrong,
and CBS ran with this one as if it were correct,
published it as if it were correct, and they just
they took it out of the IG's report and just
put it out there. That's not actually the ninth floor
layout in the lower right portion of right.

Speaker 5 (20:33):
So how do we know that, right?

Speaker 9 (20:35):
Because I've been there.

Speaker 11 (20:36):
That's the tenth floor layout. So that's the tenth floor
Sam's unit. And you can see the little curved desk there.
That's where the monitors for the cameras are. And I
used to get walked through here because there's a medical
evaluation room in that unit. And I was on a
hunger strike in the ninth Soyth shoe and rather than
bring me down to like the fourth, fourth floor or
fifth floor or wherever the normal medical exam rooms were,

(20:57):
they were lazy and they just brought me up the
shoe to the tenth floor medical exam room. And so
I used to walk by this desk, and I saw
the cameras working on this desk, and then you see
the four little rooms there just to the stacked in
a vertical row just to the left of the yellow area.
Those are the attorney visiting rooms from the ten South unit,
and the ninth floor layout does not look like that,

(21:18):
And those that area in yellow, that's not even elevators.

Speaker 9 (21:21):
In real life.

Speaker 5 (21:23):
What is that? Do you remember?

Speaker 9 (21:25):
No, it's some kind of like staff offices.

Speaker 11 (21:27):
It might even be the medical examer but I want
to see the medical exam room was further further down
the hall.

Speaker 9 (21:31):
It was a longer, longer walk.

Speaker 11 (21:33):
But the big thing is that if you look at
this diagram and you assume there actually is a.

Speaker 9 (21:37):
Camera recording there and that those are actually.

Speaker 11 (21:40):
Elevators, then you're left with an impression, or you're likely
left with the impression that an approach to Epstein's cell
through the elevators would be covered by that camera.

Speaker 9 (21:50):
And the Justice Department has said that.

Speaker 11 (21:52):
It has footage from this camera, but it has not
released the footage from this camera. But because this is
the tenth floor layout and the ninth floor layout is
materially different, that's an incorrect impression.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Right, So let's yeah, So let's move to the the
ninth floor layout, which which appears elsewhere in your piece here,
and we put the image up that has the kind
of yellow area that it's suggesting like where the camera
footage would be with Epstein's cell kind of off to
the side of it. What what what? What's important to

(22:28):
you about that layout?

Speaker 9 (22:31):
So in the so the IG provided the original for
this diagram.

Speaker 11 (22:35):
What they did not do was block out the main
elevators versus the visitors elevators. And it's not inherently obvious
that underneath if you look above the main elevators, is
that little red camera, non recording camera that's covering a door.
Simple So that's actually like the main entrance to the shoe,
or the one of the first of the two main

(22:57):
entrances to the shoe, and then you go in past
the shoe laundry office, and then there's another door actually
before you get to the main area of the shoe,
and that's where they have written America's Strongest Shoe. That's
where you see it. But you could follow this path
right and then up the stairs to Epstein's tier. And
the way they rendered the staircases here is also really misleading.

(23:19):
You would think that the staircase on the left it
the other there's kind of two staircases leading up to
like Mtier.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Really, so this Mier to pause one second for this,
let's put up the one that you labeled here streaming
but not recording camera.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
And where you've drawn these kind of red lines.

Speaker 11 (23:34):
Yeah, so the way they've drawn these staircases is really misleading. Here.

Speaker 9 (23:38):
I corrected it.

Speaker 11 (23:39):
In one of my diagrams, but it's a good amount
of work to like figure out the angles and everything.
The left hand staircase there, it looks like it's the
one that leads up, it's actually leading down that goes
to the lower tier M tier, and it's the right
hand staircase that actually leads up to L tier to
where they say Epstein was. And so the camera has

(24:00):
fairly good coverage of the left staircase that does not
lead to Epstein, but it does not have good coverage
of the right hand staircase which did.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
So let's also then talk about this other discrepancy you
point out. At these other two discrepancies you point out
that are important, there's number four in your article, no
showers on shower day, And then number five is incorrect plumbing,
which may sound to people like, oh, it's, you know,
a small thing, they just got a little minor detail
of the physical space incorrect, But you say, no, these

(24:32):
are hugely significant discrepancies.

Speaker 11 (24:34):
Tell us why so in terms of the no showers thing,
it ties into the so called orange shape that as
sends the stairs and what we see that the shoe
workers doing the August night, the date of the footage
or the date the footage starts, right, it goes from
the ninth into the tenth, right, the night of the ninth.

Speaker 9 (24:53):
Into the tenth. August ninth was a Friday. Okay.

Speaker 11 (24:56):
If you're in a federal shoe, you only get three
showers a week. Okay, most of those shoes you get
those showers on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, okay, and almost
shower days you get a change of clothes.

Speaker 9 (25:08):
Right, that's the only change of clothes you get.

Speaker 11 (25:10):
So according to IGS report, there were seventy two prisoners
in the shoe on that day. That's seventy two sets
of boxers, seventy two sets of pants, seventy two towels,
seventy two t shirts. Right, it's a full change of
seventy two things for seventy two guys. And so if
you look back at the one of the other diagrams

(25:32):
we were just looking at where I show the shoe laundry.

Speaker 9 (25:35):
Office, right, And you examined the video like I did.
I went in detail through this video.

Speaker 11 (25:41):
I played it all. I played it at a slightly
accelerated rate, but I played it all, and I took notes.
A shoe worker goes off frame really near the beginning
of that video and heads towards that shoe laundry office.
And because it was shower day, right, they've got seventy
two sets of things to walk and dry.

Speaker 9 (26:00):
And I don't remember.

Speaker 11 (26:02):
For sure if if the washing machines are actually on
this floor, if they send them up the laundry down,
but there's presumably also seventy two sets of clean laundry
coming in that need to be folded and sorted and
put on the shelf.

Speaker 9 (26:11):
Right. And so this guy he leaves.

Speaker 11 (26:14):
The frame early in the night, and it is entirely
plausible to me that he would still be doing his job,
that he would be out of his cell working, that
they would just ghost him during the count, so they
would count him as if he was in his cell,
even though he's in this laundry area. And that to
me seems the most likely explanation for the orange blur.

Speaker 4 (26:33):
So it would be an inmate doing the laundry.

Speaker 9 (26:35):
Inmate doing the laundry goes back to his cell. At
ten forty two.

Speaker 11 (26:38):
The officer goes up the stairs which we kind of see,
locks him into his cell at night, and then comes
back down.

Speaker 9 (26:43):
Those stairs, which we also see.

Speaker 11 (26:44):
It makes more sense than the IG's explanation that an
officer was carrying clothing. I agree with the video expert
CBS had It wouldn't look like that. That's most likely
a person walking up there. But there's a very mundane
reason for it. And this is something CBS would have
known had they bothered to actually interview anyone who's been
in federal prison, been in the shoe in federal prison

(27:05):
in the war. Better yet interviewed someone who's actually been
in this particular shoe in federal prison, who knows where
the laundry.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Area is or something. The inspector general, if they were
truly interested in an accurate report.

Speaker 11 (27:16):
Oh, it's not even it's not even in my top
five problems with these general.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
And so then the question then becomes, you know if,
And also let's get to the el tier, because since
since you were on here last I spoke with another
inmate who actually served specifically on the El tier and
said that, yes, yeah, that's the only one that didn't
have cameras in the cells.

Speaker 9 (27:43):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't know that. I mean I
was all over that shoe, but not on El tier.
So you know, it was news to me. But it
jives with.

Speaker 11 (27:50):
The pictures we have of Epstein cell because I went
looking through those pictures, I know where the camera would be.

Speaker 9 (27:55):
It's not there, right right.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
So that means that they chose to put their most
high profile inmate in a cell without a camera, and
also in a cell that could be approached in apparently
multiple directions by somebody who would not be recorded, which
itself is an interesting question. And then you also get

(28:19):
in your piece to the notion of the cameras not recording.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
They say that they were streaming but.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Not recording, and they didn't realize that until, you know,
right before this situation.

Speaker 5 (28:35):
Layout Why that why it sounds to.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
You to be implausible that it would they'd go for
this long without realizing the cameras were recording.

Speaker 11 (28:43):
Yeah, so according to the IG, it took NCC ten
days to discover that the cameras weren't recording. Okay, this
facility houses that capacity four hundred federal prisoners.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
Okay.

Speaker 11 (28:58):
Every federal facility, including this one, as a department called
the Special Investigative Supervisors SIS. Okay, and they're like prison intelligence.
It's like twice the oxymoron of military intelligence. But they
take their jobs very seriously and their primary tasks are
internal investigations, handling snitches, managing gangs.

Speaker 9 (29:19):
And interdicting contraband, Okay.

Speaker 11 (29:21):
And in the facility in the size of the MCC,
they get a steady stream of kites.

Speaker 9 (29:25):
They're called like flying a kite.

Speaker 11 (29:28):
It's a term for when an inmate drops a note
like ratting out a staff member or ratting out another person. Okay,
there's going to be a steady stream.

Speaker 9 (29:37):
Of them in a facility this size.

Speaker 11 (29:38):
And no self respecting SIS department could possibly go eight
days or ten days without reviewing recent camera footage because
when they get one of these kites, right, it's going
to include like a date in a time and a
place for SIS to go check out, you know, so
that they can you know, build a case or bust
somebody or whatever it is.

Speaker 9 (29:55):
So in the.

Speaker 11 (29:56):
Facility of that size, I just it's it's very very
unlike the SIS would go that long without reviewing footage
and then when they do discover the cameras aren't recording,
which is two days I think before the night in question,
they did something odd that they didn't do something. You know,
I was in eight jails in prisons, okay, across my
seven and a half years.

Speaker 9 (30:17):
As a quote unquote political prisoner.

Speaker 11 (30:18):
It was one bid, right, but I got transferred all
over the place because no one likes a guy who
has media connections and litigates and you know all that.
So I got sent all over the place. And every
time I was in a facility where they had a
significant camera issue, not just like one camera output, like
a systematic thing, even for maintenance, right, they locked down

(30:39):
the whole facility. It's just too much of a lightbuild.
They can't have people walking around. We were locked down
for like two or three days in Terre Haute, Indiana,
when it was like one hundred degrees out for camera work,
just to give it. And that was planned, right, So
they find out the cameras are down, and they.

Speaker 9 (30:57):
Don't lock down the prison.

Speaker 11 (30:58):
And we know the prison's not locked because we see
in the video we see shoe workers outside their cells
just like going about their days, right, and like that
wouldn't happen during a camera locked up?

Speaker 9 (31:10):
Right?

Speaker 4 (31:11):
Okay, now news today this is a seven? Is that
just yesterday? House Republicans James Comer subpoenad Bill Clinton? Hillary Clinton?
But also interestingly Bill Barr, system former Republicans, actually even
Alberto Gonzalez, who was attorney general when the Sweetheart deal
was struck with Epstein back during the Bush administration, and

(31:32):
Attorney General Jeff Sessions. So, Martin, do you have questions?
I mean, Barr, I think would be the big one. Obviously,
he was attorney general when everything that we're discussing right
now happened, and you would have been privy to all
kinds of information about what happened to Shoe. So what
are there questions that you think Bill Barr might have

(31:54):
the answer to, Like are the particular things that you
would recommend he'd be asked.

Speaker 11 (32:00):
I'm trying to remember if Barr was on record saying
that he had personally reviewed the video.

Speaker 9 (32:06):
I think that he was.

Speaker 11 (32:08):
And assuming that he was on record saying he had
personally reviewed the video, you know, he went forward with
this same narrative that you know there was no way
anyone could have gotten to Epstein's cell and there's just
no way reviewing that video for someone to stake that
kind of a claim.

Speaker 9 (32:22):
So I would certainly ask him about that.

Speaker 11 (32:25):
And then, you know, I'm not sure how familiar you
guys are with the Dolphin School and the connection through
Barr's family with the Dolphin.

Speaker 9 (32:31):
School, but I think that you know, bears some scrutiny
as well.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
And just sticking on your point about the video, he
described it as like a perfect storm of screw ups
that had happened. He said, I can understand people who
immediately whose minds went to the sort of worst case
scenario because it was a perfect storm of screw ups.
Those were his comments to the Associated Press back in
November of twenty nineteen. So I guess, you know, on

(32:56):
the if he's saying that all of this was basically
just accidental that led to Epstein's death, this is all
just happenstance. It just was this perfect storm of screw ups.
What's your perspective as somebody who's been there and sort
of knows all of these things would have had to
have been, Like, if that's true, tell us what that means.

(33:17):
Like the odds of all of these these screw ups
happening quote unquote.

Speaker 11 (33:22):
Screw Yes, I think the odds are fairly low. The
problem is, you know Bill Barr's personal knowledge. He can
claim that he doesn't have like intimate understanding of the
running of these facilities, right, that when he was Attorney General,
that he had a director of the Bureau of Prisons,
you know, to whom he entrusted, you know, these matters,
and that these things generally don't rise didn't rise to
his levels. I don't know like what in particular you

(33:46):
could ask him, except again, if you know, if he's
on the record saying that he watched the video and
you know, putting forth that narrative that this video is conclusive,
and I think he's got a real problem.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, all right, well, Marty, thanks so much. We'll continue
to follow your your reporting on this.

Speaker 5 (34:06):
Appreciate you joining.

Speaker 9 (34:07):
Us here, no problem, Ryan, thanks again for having me.

Speaker 5 (34:10):
And your substack, Marty g Dot substack.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Yeah, and if you want to study these diagrams closer,
go over to Marty G.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
DoD We'll put your piece in the show notes.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, oh, thank you, Thanks Abody. President Trump called into
CNBC yesterday talking to a pretty friendly audience, at least
he expected to be a friendly audience. We got some
interesting moments to push back because Ryan, he was on
a tear yesterday he was on one. So just I

(34:41):
was going to say, bizarre.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Stocked up the studia fed at the beginning of the month,
so he's going to be ride and high for like
another week.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
Let's uh, without further ado role B one, where.

Speaker 12 (34:54):
Do you get the notion that it's rigged or do
you have any evidence there?

Speaker 13 (34:57):
It is antiquated, but it's also very political. And you know,
I had an election recently where I did very well,
won every swing state, won the popular vote, won everything
all right. Days before the election, they put out numbers
that it was like the country was on fire, it
was doing so well. And then they did a revision

(35:18):
about two weeks later, and the revision was down by
almost nine hundred thousand jobs.

Speaker 14 (35:25):
You remember that.

Speaker 12 (35:26):
Those were benchmark numbers, O mus that happens.

Speaker 15 (35:29):
They do that.

Speaker 12 (35:29):
They do that twice a year, and it reconcileed the
monthly figures with like the overall numbers, and it was
a big number, and obviously the numbers were rigged.

Speaker 14 (35:40):
The numbers were rigged. Biden wasn't doing well, he was
doing poorly.

Speaker 12 (35:43):
Perhaps with the tariffs, some businesses delayed some spending, some
consumers may have been less certain.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
About the future.

Speaker 12 (35:51):
So maybe we're seeing a slight slow down in labor.
But you're going to get exactly what you want based
on these numbers. Which ones you believe? Do you not
believe that the revised numbers.

Speaker 14 (36:01):
Either, it's not what I want. I don't want that.
I wanted it a year ago. I wanted it a
long time ago.

Speaker 13 (36:06):
J Powell is highly political, and I think you know,
I call him too late.

Speaker 14 (36:11):
Jerome too late Powell. He's too late. He's too late always,
he always has been.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
So that's obviously with again pretty friendly audience and Joe
Kernan still getting pushed back on points.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Right, And I think the friendliness has limits when it
comes to Wall Street here because the United States's reputation
for accurate financial data is central to its role as
the dominant financial services sector industry in the world. Like

(36:46):
we don't make anything really and because we're able to
move money around, which we skim off the top, Like
that's the that's basically what our economy does right now.
We can do that because we have a military and
because we have a trusted financial system. If you are
an oligarch anywhere in the world and you put your

(37:06):
money with Goldman or with JP Morgan, you expect that
that money is going to be there. And that if
they tell you that CDs are paying four point one percent,
CDs are paying four point one percent, And that if
the economic forecasts are said to buy the United States

(37:28):
government to be this, that they are that that job
losses are this, that's that, that is their best estimate,
and their debt, the United States debt is what they
say it is. Argentina for many years, for instance, Greece,
a bunch of other countries when they got into trouble,
they would fudge their numbers.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
Greece, Argentina was just straight up.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Like lying and hiding debt, and so then people stop
trusting the numbers that were coming out of Argentina, and
so then they would they would cost Argentina more to borrow.

Speaker 5 (37:58):
So wals wall Street.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Actually deeply cares about this and does not want Donald
Trump to play around with this.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
That's a great point.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
That's it's core to their whole thing. Doug Henwood, your
buddy left. Yes, actually, there you go. He's a friend
of mine, Marxist economist, you know, terrific left wing economists.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
He posted the other day chiding the left.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
He said, with Trump about to try to fake economic stats,
it's not very helpful for leftists to say they we
are already cooked.

Speaker 5 (38:31):
They're not.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
I follow this stuff very closely and have for years.
They're very good and assembled by civil servants who take
their jobs very seriously. So that's that goes to Trump's
point that that it's very political.

Speaker 5 (38:46):
It's not.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Anybody watching this show knows I don't have a lot
good to say about the United States or the United
States government.

Speaker 10 (38:54):
Right.

Speaker 5 (38:55):
Is that fair?

Speaker 4 (38:56):
Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 5 (38:57):
That's fair.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
That might be our primary source of disagreement.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Our bureaucrats in the civil service take their jobs very seriously.
Whether you're whether Trump is in the White House or
whether a Democrat is in the White House. They are
doing their very best to put out the numbers. Now,
what could have happened in the last six months that
might make it more difficult for civil servants to have

(39:22):
done a perfect job?

Speaker 4 (39:25):
Can you think of anything not off the top of
my head?

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Ryan, Well, if you're spending two of your days writing
an email about what you did the five days. If
a bunch of people in your office are taking buyouts
from DOGE, a bunch of people who are on probation
for whatever reasons, they just moved there, they just got hired,
just filled the spot. If they got fired, well, now
you don't have them. And if you had a hiring

(39:49):
freeze and now you can't, you know, it's tough to
hire going into the election, then you have a hiring
freeze it's running basically till now. That could perhaps make
it a little bit trickier to do your job.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
Like I mean, let's let's just be honest like that.
Of course it would. Is that why they had a large.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Fluctuation and the numbers and this significant correction Probably not
I think what your buddy over at CNBC was saying
has something to do with it. Trump is throwing the
economy into chaos. In order for these month to month
numbers to be as accurate as possible, they get survey
data in they are obviously not counting everything in the country.

(40:34):
Think about it. Think about how you get these numbers.
It's it's surveys. You talk to zero point zero zero
percent of businesses to try to get an idea of
where things are heading, and then you compare that to
your projections and to what's been happening in the past.
But if you're if tariffs are going wild, and if

(40:57):
you're striking deals and then breaking deals, then what good
are your projections in your past results? Now you have
to just kind of go off your surveys. If you
have fewer civil servants to collect surveys and to input
the data, then you have less data. And if businesses
are consumed by trying to figure out how they're going

(41:22):
to weather this upcoming crisis created by this completely unpredictable
economic environment, they're going to be less likely to return
their surveys on time. Like this is all just common
sense nowhere in that also, think about this, Donald Trump
is saying that this Biden appointed civil servant who you know,

(41:46):
got like ninety six votes in the Center or whatever,
falsely claimed that the economy was doing better after Trump's
tariff rollout and then only later revised it downward. So like,
why would a Biden person, let's say they want to

(42:07):
hurt Trump, why would they falsely.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
Elevate the numbers for Trump?

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Right, after his tariff rollout, Right, if they were a
Biden person trying to hurt Trump, they would.

Speaker 5 (42:20):
Lower the numbers, not increase the numbers.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Unless they were unless it was this three D chess
where they know that Trump is actually going to destroy
the country with these tariffs and didn't want him to
see the damage that he was already doing, so they
wanted to bait him all the way in like that's
the only remotely plausible there you have here. And if
that's the case, then Trump would have to be like, oh,

(42:46):
maybe this whole thing is actually a bad idea.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
So anyway that like that's why.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Wall Street is upset because this is this is their
bread and butter. Yeah, their bread is buttered by accurate
data that people trust around the world.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
Like product. Yeah, it's it's actually what they're and it's.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
All they have.

Speaker 4 (43:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
I think that guy has anything else he can do?

Speaker 4 (43:09):
No, Joe Kurnan, Yeah, no way. I mean you can talk,
you can talk on TV.

Speaker 5 (43:13):
Yeah, you can work for the NFL owned ESPN.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Oh, yes, that's right, that that broke yesterday.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
Yes, the NFL is going to own ten percent of
ESPN and including some media outlets.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
Sounds fun. So I'm actually gonna go ahead one element
because just to make Ryan's point about Trump and Wall Street,
like the limits of Wall Street's favorability towards Trump. It's
interesting because Trump's position on migrants, and maybe I'm even
going to read too much into whatever he says here

(43:45):
and you can listen to it, but Trump's position on
immigration seems to also depend on who's calling up and
saying that too many of their workers in an industry
are getting deported. So this is B three.

Speaker 13 (43:58):
But we're taking care of our We can't let our
farmers not have anybody. You know, these are very these
people that you can't replace them very easily. You know,
people that live in the inner city are not doing
that work. They're just not doing that work. And they've tried,
We've tried, everybody tried.

Speaker 14 (44:18):
They don't do it.

Speaker 13 (44:19):
These people do it naturally, naturally.

Speaker 14 (44:22):
I said, what happens if they get it?

Speaker 13 (44:23):
To a farmer the other day, what happens if they
get a bad back? He said, they don't get a
bad back, sir, because if they get a bad back,
they die.

Speaker 14 (44:32):
He said, that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
What do you make of that?

Speaker 10 (44:34):
Right?

Speaker 5 (44:37):
Insanely racist and gross and weird, very weird.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
And it's always it always amuses me that in Trump's imagination,
everyone always calls him sir because his dad wanted people
to call him sir. Yeah, and so everybody who walks
up to Trump's, according to Trump, says sir.

Speaker 5 (44:55):
So anyway, that's.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Why he thanks them for their attention to any given man.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
It undermines the you know, the right often says that
right often rightly criticizes liberals when they defend immigration by saying,
who do you think mm hm cleans the toilets and
cuts the lawn and picks the fruit, as if that
is a defense of a you know, multi tier hierarchical

(45:21):
system in which some people have no rights and are
underpaid and exploited. And this completely undermines that attempt to
criticize that rightful criticism of liberals to say that, well, actually.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
We need some easily exploitable We.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Need people because if people paid in cast no rules whatsoever,
so if they get hurt, they just die.

Speaker 5 (45:46):
So that's what we need.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
And that is that is certainly one way to run
an economy and is kind of the way that we've
been running it for a very long time. But that
doesn't make it right. In fact, it's quite obviously, when
put in those stark terms, so wrong.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
And this is not the first time he's ruled out
that argument. Obviously, there's been reporting for the last several
months that Brooke Rollins, Secretary Agricultural Secretary, had been getting
calls from business owners.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
And with these farmers basically, and.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
Stephen Miller is his entire position on immigration. He's from
the Los Angeles area, was very much forged in that
kind of class cauldron of you know, went to fancy
private school and everything, and that was essential if you
see the kind of origin story of Stephen Miller from
California as being important, which I think it is. He

(46:42):
he says he saw that up close and personal, and
saw the way people are exploited up close and personal,
and it's undermined that that entire and if that's the
predicate of your immigration policy, that this is the sort
of elites relying on and under the and that is
not the only predicit for Steven Miller's immigration policy. To

(47:04):
be clear, that's not what I'm saying, but it's part
of it. Part of it is that part of the
argument that people on the right make all the time,
and I think it's a correct argument, is that this
is sort of elites who want to rely on an underpaid,
easily exploitable workforce. That's not an argument against immigration altogether,

(47:26):
you know, if we were to debate the topic more deeply,
but it is an argument against the system of immigration
that we have. And so Donald Trump repeatedly brook Rollins
apparently as well, making these arguments and making these carve outs.
I mean, the average sort of MAGA voter is way
more in the substance on this with Stephen Miller than

(47:46):
they are with let's have carve outs for people in hospitality,
because Donald Trump knows that industry really well. And you
think about all of the objections and the right to
the system. They involve people, for example, steal social security numbers,
which is a real thing. A lot of immigrant laborers
have stolen social Security numbers and thrust people whose social

(48:09):
Security numbers are stolen, whose identity is stolen, to complete
uncertainty because cartels sell those numbers. If you are against
all of those different downstream consequences of our current system,
donald Trump is making an argument that those downstream consequences
are fine because the cost benefit analysis of what would
happen to these industries works out in favor of the

(48:31):
rich business owners. So it just I think everyone who
watches this show knows that the right makes these arguments
all of the time. Sager is someone who makes these
arguments very articulately, and it's just like Trump is when
it's not favorable, not on board with those like sort
of central tenets of the post twenty sixteen Republican parties

(48:55):
approach to immigration.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
Right.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Yeah, Trump just wants to live in the land of rhetoric,
not yes, not actually do anything.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
He mean, it's a construction guy.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
He wants to be popular with people. He wants to
be popular.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
With and he wants to Yeah, he wants to demonize
people and murders and rapists, but he doesn't actually want
to do the thing. Stephen Miller wants to do the thing,
and that's where the conflict comes in. Yeah, that's right,
because they're also they're not designing anything new to replace it.
Because he's right that if you go and arrest everybody

(49:28):
and throw them out, you actually do not have enough
labor in the country absent. You just don't have enough
labor in the country to do the things that we
need done like that, that is true, So that's a
structural question.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
Well and not right now, but Steven Miller and I
mean many people would respond by saying, that's exactly why
you need to have this process of job openings. And
like there's a Wall Street Journal article that a lot
of people on the right were passing around a couple
of weeks ago about how deportations at in Nebraska. I
want to say it was a meat packing plant had happened,

(50:06):
and the like waiting room to apply for the job
was full of residents of Nebraska after people were deported.
And there are going to be pockets where we see
examples like that, but it's not going to be even
spread out. And that's what Trump is doing, is not.
So is that idea that that's.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
Good, because like throughout American history, bosses have used migrant labor,
both both internally inside the United States and also internationally
to undermine labor unions and worker power.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
Like that's that's a thing that was.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
Completely against it for that reason. Could talk about the
evolution over time on traves on that, but it was
not uncommon as a position at all, you know, in
the sixties, for the pro worker left and Bernie Sanders
up to what fifteen years ago somewhere around there on
illegal immigration as well. So yeah, that's I think we

(51:01):
will absolutely see pockets of examples like that Nebraska meat
packing factory and to the extent that helps people in
the community.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
And if Democrats would just make their immigration focused bosses
who exploit workers, yeah they would, then they'd be able
to use those Nebraska examples to their credit, be like, look, see,
we told you it's the it's these greedy bosses exactly.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
And don't think that those bosses aren't complicit in the system.
Don't think that those bosses aren't helping people find different
ways to get around the citizenship or maybe they use
e verifyer whatever it is. Yeah, of course, and don't
think that, yeah, they're not advertising in different ways. And
also don't think that the people who are going to
get those jobs at a Nebraska meatpacking packing plant are

(51:45):
all going to be white. They're not. They will also
probably be a lot of black Americans, Hispanic Americans who
are who were born here or legal residents here or
citizens I should say, who get those jobs too. So Ryan,
it is interesting because what you were saying about Trump
and the data and how Wall Street is like has

(52:07):
some of the red lines. He's what he chooses, the
battles that he chooses are kind of interesting. Yeah, and unpredicted.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
So let's actually go ahead and put speaking of Trump
being unpredictable. Uh this for some reason that I still
have actually not gotten to the bottom of. Maybe it
was to look at the new Rose Garden construction or
the new White House patio construction. Donald Trump went to
the roof of the White House yesterday capping what was
a strange what morning early afternoon and took questions, let's

(52:42):
roll B two here, take a little you know.

Speaker 6 (53:00):
Love.

Speaker 16 (53:00):
Peter's looking good, Peter.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Why do you why.

Speaker 9 (53:14):
Spend my money?

Speaker 4 (53:18):
Well, let me show you.

Speaker 6 (53:20):
It's just another way to spend my money for the country.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Anything I do is finance by me. Okay, if you're
listening to that, what you missed is at one point
he does the contours of something with his hands. He
like sort of needs a I don't even know how
you would describe it. Looks like he makes a uh
like a circular and order. But yeah, it's with his hands.
So I guess having our best assumption is that he

(53:47):
is looking at more construction based on that. By the way,
it is just such an undignified position for the reporters
to be in showing up at the president. Why are
you on the roof? What are you doing? Are you
considering more construction? And come down and talk to us.
But that is where the pool found themselves yesterday as
Donald Trump took a trip up to the roof, would
not say why, and proceeded to compliment could have been

(54:09):
Peter Alexander. I'm assuming it was Peter Doocey when he
said looking good, Peter looking good. And that was how
Donald Trump Spence's Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
And as he continues to flirt with ways to serve
out additional terms, I find it a little extra discomforting
the extent to which he's taking an interest in renovations
to the White House, like he looks like he's planning
on staying he wants to.

Speaker 5 (54:35):
That's actually a.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Good point, because he did. He made comments about that
again yesterday, right that he said something extensive like he
probably won't run for a third term, so ill We'll
have to find that quote. But yeah, that's what I
hadn't thought about that they did that.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
I was settling in.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
They did the patio pretty quickly.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
I can't say an agent place everything on the first floor.

Speaker 4 (54:56):
Yeah. This is the last thing I want to say
about that clip is when so I was in the
pool the day he toured the FED, and I have
this video of him descending the stairs the temporataires that
the construction workers put up, and he pauses and spends
time like on a catwalk, just servying. You can see
his like the wheels turning in his head, surveying the

(55:18):
construction itself, and like this is what he loves more
than anything, Like, shouldn't he just appoint himself like the
national like head of the Capital Architecture Group or whatever
it is, Like that would probably be more fun for
him as president.

Speaker 5 (55:33):
It's as president, Yeah, it's what he wants to do.
Be a figurehead.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Yeah, like a royal figure basically kind of it's the
head of state, but doesn't really have to be calling
Randy Fine to get his vote on.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Speaking of undignified, Yeah, that's an undignified position to find
yourself in. And speaking of Randy Fine, let's get into
a new updates for the Trump administration on their plans
for aid distribution in Gaza. This is a report from
Axios that Trump now plans to quote unquote take over

(56:09):
the Gaza Aid expert Gaza Aid effort, according to US officials.
This is Barack reveed story. Also Mark Pudo is on it.
Whose sources in Trump World, Good sources in Trump World
and Access reports that Steve Whitcoff and Trump discussed plans
for the US to significantly increase its role in providing
humanitary and aid to Gaza in a meeting Monday evening

(56:29):
at the White House. According to officials, and is really
official with knowledge of the issue, Trump is set to
make remarks. I believe he's set to make remarks at
the White House tonight. Brian, So, I expect. I think
it's probably fair to expect that that's what this will
be in relation.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
To Yeah, and we've got a little bit of Trump
teasing where he is on this now.

Speaker 5 (56:50):
If we want to roll CE two.

Speaker 11 (56:52):
Would you support Israel reoccupying all of Gaza has been
has been suggested by some israelifficial.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
Well, I don't know what the suggestion is. I know
that we are there now trying to get people fed.
As you know, sixty million dollars was given by the
United States fairly recently to supply food and a lot
of food frankly for the people of Gaza that are
obviously not doing too well with the food. And I
know Israel is going to help us with that in

(57:21):
terms of distribution and also money. We also have the
Arab States are going to help us with that in
terms of the money and possibly distribution. So that's what
I'm focused on. As far as the rest of it,
I really can say that's going to be pretty much
up to Israel.

Speaker 13 (57:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (57:37):
And the.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Mechanism of aid distribution is a central sticking point in
negotiations which are now stalled between Hamas and Israel, with
Hamas insisting that the previous aid distribution system run by
the UN and a cohort of international aid organizations which
have four hundred pre existing aid sites around Gaza, be

(58:00):
re implemented. And their argument is that if you are
concerned about the trucks getting looted as they come in,
then you need to send in more than five or
ten trucks a day, because these crowds just swarm if
they know there's only five trucks.

Speaker 5 (58:16):
It's just a game theory situation.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
If you know there's only five trucks coming in for
the entire day for two million people, then it's worth
it to you to risk your life to try to
be right next to the truck so that you can
pull whatever you can off of it. But if you
know that there are a thousand trucks getting in a
day and they're at these four hundred different sites, then
you're just going to go to the site where you're

(58:38):
assigned to and you're going to get the rations that
you're entitled to.

Speaker 5 (58:41):
Like, that's.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Why we did not see these violent scenes. And we
can roll now CEE three this vo that's why we
did not see violent scenes like this.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
Up until Israel took over a distribution.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
This is a compilation just from yesterday that with another
massacre outside of an AID site. You can hear the
gunshots in the background. If you can see this man
kind of taking his final breaths and you have this.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
This kind of this in code.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Vision if you if you're watching this, there's the crystal
blue water in the background of this. Yeah, uh, this
gorgeous Mediterranean scene surrounded by absolute apocalypse and it's person
after person we're trying to get AID and then it
and it finishes if with the man who was filming

(59:43):
it realizes that he's filming his cousin and he starts
calling out his cousin's name.

Speaker 5 (59:51):
At the at the very end there.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
So this is this is the aid distribution system that
Israel's defending in its negotiations with AMAS, and that Trump says,
it's that we are going to continue to fund and
and become involved with, involved with just to not go
back to the original system. Alon Levy, who used to

(01:00:14):
be the Israel spokesperson before he was fired for getting
in a fight with like a UN diplomat.

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
This was after October seventh, after October seventh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Yeah, just this morning posted something I wanted to share
and maybe I can we can add this in posts
He shared a Andrew Fox, a reporter. They brought him
to a distribution site, and Alan is sharing this Andrew
Fox's report.

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
He Alon writes, just just think about this for a second.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
This is what Alon says as his own He thinks
this makes Israel sound good. He says, idf uses warning
shots to control crowds outside, i e. Firing over people's
heads or at open ground to deter stampedes. Andrew Fox
says he has quote deeply uncomfortable with live fire for
crowd control, but there are quote few alternatives. Crowds are

(01:01:06):
unruly potentially infiltrated by Hamas. So according to Israel's own propaganda,
they are firing live rounds over people's heads, are at
open ground to quote deter stampedes, which is, have you
ever heard of shooting at a crowd to deter a stampede? Separately,

(01:01:28):
they're saying that their crowds are quote potentially infiltrated by Hamas.
What on earth could that possibly mean? So you are
shooting into a crowd of unarmed Palestinians or sorry sorry
over them and into the ground accidentally, just keep killing

(01:01:48):
them every single day by the dozens. But you're saying
you're not. There's just warning shots, but you're doing it
because they're quote potentially infiltrated by Hamas. This is shared
by Alon Levy. Potentially infiltrate that what are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
It's just dishonest because the only correct approach then would
be to do no aid, and that's what a lot
of people, that's what a lot of Israeli officials would prefer.
We are going to talk to later.

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
Basically, what this ends up being.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
We are going to talk later about Randy Fine, for example,
as as just someone who is in lockstep with Natzigna
who essentially saying Israel has no has no obligation to
provide humanitarian assistance to the people in Gaza, children, women,
civilians in Gaza. And that is I think the much

(01:02:43):
more honest position is as gross as it is. It
is the honest position saying that these crowds may be
infiltrated by hamas renders because anything could be infiltrated by Hamas.
It is the government of that lab right.

Speaker 5 (01:02:58):
Why do we bomb that school?

Speaker 16 (01:02:59):
Well?

Speaker 5 (01:02:59):
Could have been traded by himas? Why'd you bomb the hospital?
Could have been infiltrated by himas?

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
And it's true, And I mean so, David Petraeus had
a piece. He's talked about this on and off for
the last couple of years, that there are different ways
to isolate military and civilian populations when you go in.
He talks about strategies that the US used during the
surge in I Rock that he sees as having been
very successful, where you isolate the military the military threats

(01:03:28):
in particular areas, and then you can go and do
humanitarian assistance to people outside of high security compounds in
for example, Gaza. But the point is, if you want
to still provide humanitarian aid because you think it helps
your position in the world, or because you think it
is the right thing to do because children are starving,

(01:03:49):
then saying that it might be infiltrated by hamas completely
renders it impossible. So the only honest thing then to
say is we're just not doing it. We have no
obligation to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Let the kids start, and there's a new Sky News
fact check of the Ministry of Health casually figures that
we were going to talk about now, But I actually
think it'd be better to talk about it after your
monologue because it relates to it and to some of
the pushback that you got.

Speaker 5 (01:04:14):
So let's move to your piece next.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
All right, join me on a hypothetical journey. The year
is twenty fourteen, and you're at one of the Conservative
movements many annual conferences. The rubber chicken has been served
at a dinner honoring some think tanks aging Cold War veteran.
As coffee is poured, conversation at your table turns to
maybe President Obama's latest dust up with Benjamin and Yahoo

(01:04:36):
ever agrees Obama is undermining a key ally, but you
mainstream Hannity watching conservative disagree. What has been happening to
innocent people and children in Gaza is horrific. You contend
the United States should not be involved in fighting nuclear
armed Israel's war with Iran, so that would go over

(01:04:56):
about as well as a call for thirty five percent
tariffs on Canada back in tw twenty fourteen. There's a
reason that Pat Buchanan was not invited to this dinner,
and Ron Paul has been mocked as a crank during
the keynote. You'd probably already be in the parking lot
or in a shouting match by the time you were
tablemates tucked into their slices of mediocre cheesecake. Both quotes, though,
are sourced directly from Representative Marjorie Taylor greens x account

(01:05:20):
this summer as the war Gaza approaches its two year mark,
and quote food supplies in Gaza have dwindled, per a
headline in the Wall Street Journal. Now, this is all
part of what I wrote for Unheard this week, and
I had some interesting responses. The piece was headline that
Israel is losing US support Israel's losing the US front is.

(01:05:43):
I believe what the specific headline was, but wanted to
go through a little bit of it here because some
of the numbers that were getting from polling, combined with
new comments from Marjorie Taylor Green, Steve Bannon, and others,
I think really signal that we've reached a turning point
on the right. And it might not show up in

(01:06:03):
polling overall yet, and we're going to explain why, but
it's coming for the Republican establishment. So Green, who is
one of Donald Trump's staunchest supporters in Congress, absolutely shattered
another Republican taboo on Monday by describing Israel's treatment of
Palestinians as a quote unquote genocide. And Green is not alone.
Steve Bannon, who is of course one of the most

(01:06:25):
popular right wing podcast hosts in America, recently argued quote
Netanyahu's government is out of control on Bannag's show. This
was very interesting. Former Blackwater CEO Eric Prince accused the
Israeli military of intentionally targeting a Catholic church in Gaza.
We covered that here, and Prince declared, quote the time
of subsidizing the IDF as the American taxpayer must end.

(01:06:49):
So after that church was hit, Daily Wire host Michael
Knowles we covered it here, lamented quote, You're losing me.
You're losing me when you strike churches, the only church
in Gaza, even if accidentally, but especially if not accidentally,
You're losing me. At Turning Point USA's summer student conference,
the group hosted a debate on the subject between Dave
Smith and Josh Hammer that exposed the conservative movement's new divide.

(01:07:14):
This is new Smith, who has called Ron Paul, for example,
the greatest living American hero, was greeted with cheers for
many attendees for criticisms of Israel that would have fallen
on deaf ears, if not hostile ears before the October
seventh attacks. Randy Fine, perhaps Israel's most aggressive defender in
the House of Representatives, to say the least, has a

(01:07:35):
GOP primary challenger, and Aaron Baker, who's on the show
today and who's been eagerly hammering Fine for his comments
on Gossen's and his backing from the American Israel Public
Affairs Committee APAK. Quote. I do not support starving children,
Baker posted, adding I do not support punishing citizens for
having the worst government in existence. Tucker Carlson, another of

(01:07:58):
the country's most popular broadcast released an episode of his
podcast last Wednesday with John Meersheimer that was titled the
Palestinian Genocide and how the West has been deceived into
supporting it. Carlson and his guests have been consistently critical
of Natanyahu's government for months. That is even to address
the outright anti semitism of other fringe voices with significant

(01:08:19):
but not quite mainstream social media followings on the right
as well. So, of course the horror and gaza right
now is not an apples to Apple's comparison with the
twenty fourteen war, but that's kind of the point here.
Speaking of twenty fourteen, the Obama veterans over at Pod
Save America are issuing their own Maya Kalpas from the left.
Barack Obama signed a ten year memorandum of understanding for

(01:08:41):
a three point three billion a year, So we are
part of the problem here, let's correct it. That was
Tommy Veder talking last week on the show. He was
under Obama as national security spokesman, and he went on
to say when the war ends, we're not going back
to the pre October seventh status quo. He was then
challenged on x by a critic who accused Veder of
exacting a grudge against Nata Nahu from the Obama years,

(01:09:03):
but Vita replied by saying, or stay with me here.
The entire world is horrified by what we're witnessing at Gaza,
which is why this conversation is happening now and not
back in twenty fifteen, for example, or basically, to put
that shorter, things have changed now. You may or may
not disagree with it, but it's obviously the perception of
Veda and many people on the right as well. In
addition to the sort of establishment left. There's little insights

(01:09:27):
to be gleaned about the right itself from pods of America.
But in this case, Veda is correct that revulsion at
the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is just no longer limited
to progressives. This movement is nationwide, and it's so sweeping
that it's dragging people on the right away from Israel,
even as conservatives triple down on the support for the war.
The rights divide is sharpening. But what's eroded since October

(01:09:49):
seventh is basically the stigma of criticizing Israel. Gallup has
been tracking public opinion on the Gaza war since its
earliest weeks. On Tuesday, the firm released stark new findings
quote last Tuesday, Americans approval of Israel's military action in
Gaza has fallen ten percentage points since the prior measurement
in September, and it is now at thirty two percent,
the lowest reading since Gallop first asked the question in

(01:10:11):
November twenty twenty three. Disapproval of the military action has
now reached sixty percent. That's from the report. Gallup survey
found a stunning golf between Democrats and independence on one side
and Republicans on the other. Get this, seventy one percent
of Republicans still approve of Israel's military action in Gaza.
That number is only twenty five percent among independents and

(01:10:32):
eight percent among Democrats. For what it's worth, the same
poll found that Trump's approval rating has declined seventeen points
among independents since the start of his second term, and
only twenty seven percent of his handling approve right now
of his handling of the conflict. That number means less
to Republicans in red states and primary elections, but in

(01:10:52):
swing districts, battleground states, and nationwide races. It's hugely significant
Independence split evenly between Trump and Harris last November, and
that itself was actually gained for Trump because he erased
Democrats nine point advantage with Independence in the twenty twenty election.
Back in twenty twenty two, before the war, Independence fell
at seventy one percent when it came to favorability for Israel,
squarely between Republicans at eighty one percent and Democrats at

(01:11:14):
sixty three percent. It's true that even in twenty twenty four,
Israel ranked low among voters' priorities when choosing between candidates.
But it's also true that Republicans counted for years on
the reflexive support for the Israeli government, or they counted
on receiving a reflexive support for the Israeli government from
moderates and from GOP faithfuls. Now the incentive structure has

(01:11:35):
been transformed, and I think that's the most important point
here for the GOP. This fissure looks poised to get
much worse. A Pew survey the spring found that Republicans
under fifty are about as likely to have a negative
view of Israel as a positive one, that is fifty
percent to forty eight percent in twenty twenty two, though
they were much more likely peuceas to see Israel positively

(01:11:55):
than negatively sixty three versus thirty five percent. That is
a shock fucking change, especially as anger generations begin to
comprise more and more of the electorate. Bannon himself put
it best when he told Politico last week, quote, it
seems that for the under thirty under thirty year old
MAGA base, Israel has almost no support, he observed. Bannon
further believes it's not just young MAGA, but that Netanyahu's

(01:12:17):
attempt quote to save himself politically by dragging America in
deeper to another Middle East war has turned off a
large swath of older MAGA diehards. Ryan. There are a
couple of reasons for this, I mean, there are obvious
reasons for this, one of which is that the level
of the scale of devastation and destruction in Gaza is
different than what we saw in twenty fourteen. As horrible

(01:12:37):
as it was before, this is a different scale. I
think that's obviously the most important reason. But also the
erosion of the power of gatekeepers I was going through
hypothetically yesterday actually with Doug Henwood, thinking you in twenty fourteen,
would Marjorie Taylor Green say that this is a genocide
when it would absolutely black out her media mentions everywhere.

(01:12:59):
She would never get on Fox again, she would be
treated as a pariah. Now she can go on a
war room, she can go on Newsmax, she can go
on social media and still get a huge response for
saying that, even if people don't agree with it whatever.
That would have in twenty fourteen, the incentive structure to
come out and say that didn't exist. You would have
been blacked out everywhere. So I think the erosion of

(01:13:21):
the gatekeepers is a big one. And also gen Z
younger millennials not really remembering the time before nine to
eleven and just remembering the stalemates of the global war
and terror after nine to eleven coming up in that era.
Those are the three big factors that I think right
now go into it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
And the politico social gatekeepers still remain in effect. And
I'm curious for the response that you've gotten to this
piece since it was published in Unheard. I think it's
a good piece and it lays out the situation quite well.
But to me, it's straightforward, it's mild, it's not offensive.

(01:13:59):
It was like, this is this is these are the facts,
These is what the polls say, this is how people
are responding to this, and yet it seems like you're still.

Speaker 5 (01:14:10):
Getting blowback for it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
Yeah, you talk a little bit about what your what
the reaction has been, like.

Speaker 4 (01:14:18):
People probably saw this play out in next but yeah, there's.

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
Uh, probably not like because we don't like if you're
not in particular ecosystems on Twitter, like you just don't
even see what's going on.

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
Yeah, I mean if you were, if you follow me
closely for whatever reason, Uh, first of all, that's your mistake.
Second of all, Yeah, there was a little bit, a
little bit of back and forth with a fairly close
former colleague. It sucks. I mean you you've gone through
this on the left with some of your own people.

(01:14:52):
It's it's never fun. But uh, what's what's that for me?
And we've been really open about it here and I
feel like transparent, at least I've tried to be transparent.
As my own views on this have evolved, a lot
of people who I trust and listened to. I started
basically on the other side of this. You know, I

(01:15:14):
started changing before October seventh, but afterwards a lot of
people just I listened to everything that they said and
read everything they wrote, and there's just nothing that's persuasive
to me anymore that we should be sort of reflexively
supportive of Netsan Yahu and his decisions about how to
prosecute this war. So it's just frustrating because you just

(01:15:36):
keep hitting a brick wall right that it's you're spending
too much time with Ryan Grimm or whatever, and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Like, well, one of the things you cited in the piece,
and as soon as I saw it, I knew you'd
get some backlash for it was data from the gods
and Ministry of Health and you didn't call it the
Hamas run Ministry of Health.

Speaker 5 (01:15:56):
Yes, sure will make people angry.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
Yes, But for people who who are earnestly confused about
this question and wonder what they can trust and should
they believe the numbers coming out of the Ministry of Health,
we do have something for you here. So Sky News,
which is as pro Israel a British news outlet as

(01:16:17):
you could possibly find, set out to fact check the
Ministry of Health's data, and I don't know what they
expected they would find. Maybe they went into it in
an unbiased way. Doesn't matter, because to their credit they
published the results of their investigation and what they did
was smart.

Speaker 5 (01:16:37):
They took one day of.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
Deaths reported by the Ministry of Health and they were
was it four hundred, four hundred and four roughly more
than four hundred, four hundred and sixty five deaths reported
or March eighteenth, brutal day. So they went and found

(01:17:07):
that they found obituaries by friends or family for four
hundred and four of those, so ninety two percent. They
found one of those four hundred and sixty five people
listed with an invalid ID, and they found twenty six

(01:17:29):
with the wrong date of death. So they were able
to confirm that those people had in fact died, but
they had died on.

Speaker 5 (01:17:35):
A different day.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
And so sky News then concludes, quote these numbers are real.
Anyone still saying otherwise is not serious. And so you
could you could do the same thing with any other
day and you would find the same thing. And it
was a it was a smart project by sky News.

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
Because or not, because you're is that they'd probably set
out to defunk.

Speaker 5 (01:18:02):
Right, maybe they did. Yeah, they might have. An editor
might have been like, we're going to prove that these
numbers are wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
But if somebody dies on this planet, people loved that person.
Somebody loved that person or somebody's and because we live
in a world of social media, they're going to share
something about their memory and the life that they lived
and their life that was cut short. And so it
stands the reason that if the Ministry of Health is

(01:18:27):
announcing that these people died, that you would be able
to find some public records somewhere if you look hard enough,
and Sky News was able to find it.

Speaker 5 (01:18:35):
Back in we can put up C five as well.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
Back in October twenty twenty three, at the Intercept where
I was at the time, we did a similar thing
where I had been talking to a Palistini who lives
in Texas, and he had told me in the first
couple of weeks of the attack that he had lost
dozens of family members and he's started giving me names

(01:18:58):
of the people who in his family who had died.
And then afterwards the Ministry of Health published a list
of six thousand plus people who had been killed in
the first several weeks, and so what we were able
to do is take those names and those ages and
compare them to the Ministry of Health, and we found

(01:19:21):
almost all of them on the list. And so what
we were able to conclude there is that if this
was just a list of fabricated names, which is what
the accusation from Joe Biden basically was at the time,
that Okay, this is a PDF with names on it,
that doesn't prove anything statistically, It's impossible that Hamas would

(01:19:43):
have added names that this person in Texas had given
me also separately. So from very early on it was
clear that and also the US State Department and others
in un and have been relying on this Ministry of Health,
which is jointly run by the way, by Hamas and
the Palestini Authority. It's the only ministry in Gaza that

(01:20:07):
is jointly run by the PA. Nobody, ever, New York
Times never says, so BBC never says the PA run
health ministry, because which would be just as accurate. But
the PA is basically a subcontractor to Israel, and so
saying that the PA jointly runs it undermines what is
the attempt there, which is to cast out on the numbers.

(01:20:30):
So if you're curious if these numbers can be trusted,
the answers that they can.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
And one final thing I didn't even cite in the piece.
Just the piece was a little different than the monologue.
I didn't even cite the just the Gaza Health ministry numbers.
I said a Washington Post analysis of the Gaza health
ministry numbers that was setting out to verify names and
agents and sort by names and Asians. It is stunning

(01:20:55):
and sweeping and.

Speaker 5 (01:20:57):
Just looking at the children.

Speaker 4 (01:20:59):
Oh, it's horrific. If you if you haven't scrolled through it,
I think it's it's worth it. But that's actually what
I cited. So I cited American media analyzing the Gaza
health industry numbers, not even just the numbers itself, numbers themselves.
And so the last thing you just want to say
on this is it's one of those issues where I think,
because of tribalism and partisanship, polarization, whatever you want to

(01:21:22):
call it, we end up reflectively saying, oh, okay, so
Hamas is the government in Gaza. Hamas is evil. Don't
don't trust Hamas, So these numbers can't be right, Like
you're you're asking me to support numbers from Hamas, and
obviously I'm you know, I think Israel is the good
guy here, and I'm not gonna if Israel is saying
those numbers are overstating it, and Hamas is telling me

(01:21:45):
that the numbers are under counting it, I'm gonna go
with Israel. That's how a lot of people would approach
this on the right. And then when you start peeling
at the layers and you start poking them, and you know,
looking more deeply, you realize, actually there are ways to
past the accuracy of the numbers, and when you do it,

(01:22:06):
it doesn't look good for people who claim that the
Gaza Health Ministry is making it all up. In fact,
there have been academic studies that show it may be
an undercount.

Speaker 5 (01:22:16):
Well, so, no doubt, no doubt it is.

Speaker 3 (01:22:18):
You're bright, because these are people that have shown up
in medical stations like hospitals or clinics or otherwise.

Speaker 5 (01:22:26):
The number of people under rubble, et cetera. It's countless
at this point.

Speaker 4 (01:22:31):
Literally, Yeah, yep, absolutely so. Ryan gets some biblical knowledge
from Ryan Grimm Bible Hour with.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Ryan grew a little Red Haffer Apocalypse talk and Emily
can fact check at all all right, stick around for that.
Mike Johnson became the first House speaker to visit the
occupied West Bank this week, with a trip that has
attracted intense scrutiny. While there, he said that the Mountains
of Judea and Samaria, the settler's name for the West Bank,

(01:23:02):
belonged to Israel, quote by right, which not only contradicts
international law but also official US policy. But behind the
provocative rhetoric, the media so far has missed what appears
to be the fundamentally.

Speaker 5 (01:23:15):
Biblical nature of the trip.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
So the story behind the trip involves a Rabbi named
Jitzak Maamo, a Texas Christian named Byron Stinson, five red heifers,
and the Apocalypse Now. In September of twenty twenty two,
Stinson shipped five red heifers to Tel Aviv from Texas.
The cattle are part of End Times prophecy and are

(01:23:40):
required to be sacrificed to help usher in the apocalypse.
Hamas spokesman Abu Beta, in marking the one hundredth day
of the war that began on October seventh, even made
reference to the red heifers as a provocation to be
condemned since part of the End Times prophecy involves destroying
the Alaxima and rebuilding the Jewish temple that was destroyed

(01:24:03):
two thousand years ago. On February one, twenty twenty three,
Mike Johnson, according to a source with knowledge of the matter,
invited Rabbi Mammo to Congress to speak to a group
of evangelical Republicans about the Heifers. Boris Johnson also happened
to be there, and Johnson, that's Mike Johnson. Mike Johnson

(01:24:25):
introduced the rabbi, who regaled the gathering with tales of
the prophecied Heffers. So the meeting was held on the
same day as that year's National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance,
a high profile evangelical convening in Washington that Mike Johnson
is heavily involved with. The Next year, in twenty twenty four,
both Stinson and Rabbi Mammo spoke at the gathering, telling

(01:24:48):
their story again where Johnson was a central figure.

Speaker 17 (01:24:52):
So, Father, we bless you for granting us the ability
to have the Office of the consul Itoy in Chief,
represented by Yoman Sevant, speak at Johnson to be with
us today and your different sevenths representing the entire earth.

Speaker 5 (01:25:14):
For a cry of repentance. So here's Byron Stinson.

Speaker 18 (01:25:18):
At that event, You're going to be extremely excited what
you're about to hear. Now as we go into this
portion on Israel, I have two good friends out here
with me, Byron Stinson and Rabbi Isak Mamo, and I'm
going to have them to start immediately by telling the
story of the Red Heifers. These are men who at
the epicenter of what's happening with the Red Heifers.

Speaker 7 (01:25:39):
So Byron, let's have so we start with you the story.
Byron is an Evangelical Christian from Texas. Saki Mamo is
an Orthodox Jew from Jerusalem.

Speaker 18 (01:25:50):
Byron, do we start with you?

Speaker 9 (01:25:52):
Yes, sir?

Speaker 15 (01:25:53):
Okay, go ahead, Hello everybody, how are you? I have
really good news today and I'm so happy to be here.
I have that first slide, please ye if we're going
to the next slide, what we see here are the
red Heifers. Let's go back one. Are the red heifers
necessary for the Messiah to come? Well, let me ask
you something. When Israel was scattered for two thousand years

(01:26:17):
in the land. Was it necessary that Israel Judah, the
tribe of Judah, the lion, would return to the land.
Was that necessary? Is it necessary that on the temple
mountain of God, that there be a temple that we
worship him there, as it says in Micah? For is
that necessary that we build the land? So the first
step on the red heifers is that we are going

(01:26:41):
to move towards building that temple. This is the first
step and it has to happen. But my friends, I
want to tell you, all of you in the nations,
you need to know something. God had a plan. He
put his people Judah into the nations to suffer because
they didn't obey him. Here we are today, we're seeing
today we're doing the thing. But thankfully we have leaders

(01:27:03):
in Judah that love us. They've reached across to us
and they want to help lead us. And they're reading
their word and they're reading their Bible. And in the
Bible it says find a red heifer. So they called me,
and I didn't go get fined a red heifer for me.
I found the red heifer for every one of you.
Because the fathers of faith said speak to the children

(01:27:26):
in the lands and bring us a red heifer so
that we might do this ceremony.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
So, just to underscore it, this is the crew here
that Mike Johnson brought to the Capitol.

Speaker 5 (01:27:37):
And here's scrab by memo.

Speaker 18 (01:27:39):
This part that has not been discussed publicly in any venue.
We have to have land, and that land has to
be at a certain elevation, at a certain location.

Speaker 19 (01:27:48):
And what is that by number nineteen. Again, we have
to read the Bible. We have to read the Toah
and to see it's written that it's had to be
a defront of the Holy of the Holy. So at
the Tabernacle ten time, Moses it was easy for him.
He had the tenth and he just find the door. Today.

(01:28:12):
As I mentioned before, we know where is the place
of the Holy of the Holy is on the dome
of the Rock. Okay, this is a view from Mount
of Olive. Okay, a big cemetery, Jewish cemetery. By the tradition,
who buried in Mount of Olive would be the first
one that will wake up at the redemption time. But

(01:28:34):
you can see the Dome of the Rock. So we
have to be in the place that we can see
the Holy of the Holy and actually it's had to
be the same heights that we can be at the
same level of the temple.

Speaker 18 (01:28:52):
However, buying land there is impossible because if an Arab
Muslim sells to a Jew, he or she gets killed,
So that's hardly an option. But somehow God supernaturally helped
you buy.

Speaker 5 (01:29:06):
What piece of land.

Speaker 19 (01:29:13):
Don't ask me why, I don't ask me how, and
specific don't ask me why I succeed. I don't know.
But with a lot of I just say a miracle, okay,
not any other explanation.

Speaker 15 (01:29:29):
Actually, twelve years ago you said maybe we built a
red Angus steakhouse out.

Speaker 9 (01:29:33):
There when we were getting I remember that.

Speaker 19 (01:29:37):
So so we succeed to but a little piece of
land one dunam, which means a quarter of a quarterm
and acre acre and it's as you can see here
this is a photo from the mountain. Okay, So it's
at the same level of the temple. It's the front

(01:30:01):
of the holly of the Holy Place. So we have
the cows, we have the land. We are ready is ready.

Speaker 18 (01:30:10):
Government approved you to bring your five pets, which you
never kept in your front yard like most people do.

Speaker 5 (01:30:16):
As he says they're in Shiloh.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18):
So what biblical town in the West Bank did Mike
Johnson visit?

Speaker 5 (01:30:23):
Well, let's take a look.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
Who is that American tourist in the blue shirt and
the khakis there? Well, there he is Speaker of the House,
Mike Johnson. Where is Mike Johnson? Where is that crowd
Shiloh checking.

Speaker 5 (01:30:37):
Out the heifers.

Speaker 4 (01:30:38):
Gotta look at the heifers, Gotta.

Speaker 3 (01:30:39):
Check out when he said your pets. By the way,
when he said they allowed you to bring your pets,
there is an export band on cattle from the United
States to Israel. So what they did is they said
they're pets, They classified them as pets.

Speaker 4 (01:30:56):
They slow them on a Boeing seven seven seven.

Speaker 5 (01:31:00):
And it landed. They got him there.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
So this is the Speaker of the House of Representatives
intimately involved in this red Heffer prophecy. Well, what are
we even supposed to do with this? Supposed to be
a news show? But this is crazy?

Speaker 4 (01:31:23):
Well no, I mean this is important because it gets
to exactly what the motivations are and it's where of course,
there is a kind of overlap in the Venn diagram
between some Orthodox Jews and some evangelical Christians. We've talked
about this a little bit over the years. Evangelical Christian

(01:31:46):
this is what you call pre millennial dispensationalism. If you're
an evangelical Christian, it's you know, if you remember, if
you're min maybe one of these the ambassador they all play,
you know, it's interesting. So Hakabi has played really careful
with it. You can you can kind of read into
what he said. And it's the same thing with Mike Johnson.
You can kind of read into the groups that he
speaks to, the people that he speaks to, and the

(01:32:06):
way that he talks about having a biblical mandate. You know,
that God will bless those who blessed the nation of Israel.
I think that's a direct quote that Mike Johnson has
recited before.

Speaker 3 (01:32:16):
And this is this is new reporting that it was
Mike Johnson that introduced Yes, this rabbi at this private event.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
Yes, So the significance of that seems to be that, yes,
Mike Johnson is one of what I would say in
the US is a dwindling number of evangelical Christians who
are dispensationalists. It was really popular actually along around the
time of the Millennial No Surprise and the Left Behind
books for my age will remember those were out at

(01:32:43):
the time. But when you played that video of Hamas
on the one hundred.

Speaker 3 (01:32:48):
Johns so, by the way, was not speaker yet when
he invited when he first invited these two figures to
the capital Stinson and Mammows.

Speaker 5 (01:32:59):
But which is I think is important.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
It's extremely but he was when they came back for
that gathering. Anyway, go ahead to you that you were
talking about the Abu a Beta.

Speaker 4 (01:33:08):
Well, yeah, so that video is really really important because
whether or not you take home lots of their word,
what is true is that provocations which is I know
that that's the connotation of that is pejorative, but provocations
at Alaksa Dome of the Rock Temple mount from some

(01:33:29):
Israeli officials and with the sort of sanctioning of some
major people in this space. You're not supposed to pray.
There's a huge debate as to whether you're supposed to pray.
When you go up there, you're you're not supposed to
and a lot of people say that it's actually sacrilegious
and everything, but there are others who pushed to be

(01:33:50):
able to do it. And that is part of I
mean the Hamas called October seventh all ox Off flood
after the Mosque Axa on the Temple Mount, and so
sighting of the heifers, as they call it, a provocation.
I think what we're seeing, whether 're not whether or
not you believe that this is the end times. The

(01:34:13):
Third Temple Movement among Jews is meant to follow biblical
mandates to bring about the Messiah. The Third Temple Movement
among Evangelical Christians is because they believe that this will,
this invites in the end of days, that this creates
room for Christ's return and conquer evil and so setting

(01:34:36):
the stage in very specific ways. I mean, I recommend
people go to the Temple Institute's website and see the
preparations beyond the red Heifers, the preparations for very specific
things that need to happen from their perspective in order
to usher in this period. I mean this is if
you go to their website, you can see like just

(01:34:58):
the menora find that I think it's just just google
Temple Institute and click on the website. It's really like
you saw numbers nineteen illuminated behind some of those speakers
you can go and you can read numbers nineteen. That
is the specific verse that talks about the specification of
the red heifers. The red heifer story is fascinating because.

Speaker 5 (01:35:20):
Some of those heifers have already been ruled out apparently.

Speaker 4 (01:35:23):
Yes, because they can't have like a white hair white hairs. Yeah,
I mean, so this is why I think they're actually
even sending frozen embryos. Someone would have to like fact
truck that, but so that you always have on hand. No,
I'm serious, I'm serious. But this is the politics of this.
Think about that if you're putting all of the effort
into the heifers. Oh yeah, obviously, like you know this

(01:35:44):
because you just reported this out, but it's like incredibly
consequential that you have this. Mike Johnson is one of
dwindling number of evangelicals, as I said, in the United
States that are sort of premillennial dispensationalists. But in it
is this is growing, this is this is a movement
that's getting bigger and bigger according to the reporting. So

(01:36:07):
things are he.

Speaker 5 (01:36:09):
The heifers can never have been under the yoke, according.

Speaker 4 (01:36:11):
To yeah, never, and they have to have a chill life.

Speaker 5 (01:36:14):
Does an embryo inside a fridge as yonder. Is that
a yoke? I don't know. I think those embryos don't count.

Speaker 4 (01:36:21):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):
So if y'all do this the whole thing and the
Messiah doesn't come, it's because the embryo was actually under the.

Speaker 4 (01:36:29):
Yoke, just the final but then it's disqualified. Well, I
guess that's what you're saying. The sacrificing of the helf.
Lord is the judge, so you have to they've actually are.

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
Guessing it what his requirements are based on numbers nineteen.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
So yeah, well in number nineteen it's God saying this
to Moses and Aaron.

Speaker 5 (01:36:51):
But but God left a little room for interm Well.

Speaker 4 (01:36:54):
We didn't know where the yoke would go. Yes, technologically,
but basically the point here is that if you believe,
like after what was it, the nineteen sixty seven more,
there was an opportunity to blow up the temple, and
Israel decided, I'm sorry to blow up al Axa and
rebuild the third Temple, blow up down the rock and
rebuild their tump. They did not do that. So the

(01:37:14):
politics of this are really important because if this is
a growing constituency in political Israel, then you may be
approaching a point where there is destruction of a sacred
site for Muslims, which was built on the single most
important site in all of Judaism. So that's basically I

(01:37:34):
mean everybody knows this, but that is the heart of
the conflict between the two parties. Here is this contested
territory because it is very important in Islam as well.
It's where they believe that Mohammad went on his ascension
to Heaven. And obviously, in a lot of different strains
of or a lot of different strains of thought in Islam,
Jerusalem is important for their own eschatology. So if you

(01:37:58):
then have a growing constituency for just actually physically fighting
over the temple itself, of the Temple mount itself, over
that land itself, and a rebuilding of a third temple,
the consequences of that are enormous.

Speaker 3 (01:38:15):
Yeah, and I just want to underscore the speaker of
the House of Representatives is at the center of this.

Speaker 4 (01:38:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely anyway, Yeah, although again he's like very
gen x evangelical, you know, there's still people who think
like this, but it's definitely it was much bigger in
like the nineties than it is now if that's any comfort, Okay,
take that all right? Well, thanks Ryan, this has been

(01:38:44):
your Ryan Grim Bible hour.

Speaker 5 (01:38:45):
Here we go.

Speaker 3 (01:38:47):
All right, So speaking of devout Corey Mills, let's do it.
We have new reporting over at drop Site News by
Roger Sallenberger on Representative Corey Mills. You can put this
first element up on the screen. Stallenberger has been investigating
Mills for quite some time and this is a first
and a series of pieces that we're going to be seeing.

(01:39:09):
But this one broke because miss United States filed a
restraining order yesterday against Mills. Now, the backstory here involves
a story that you may remember from previously. If you recall,
there was a Republican congressman, and it was Mills who

(01:39:29):
was accused by his living girlfriend in Southwest Washington, DC
of domestic violence. She filed a police report, she later,
as often happens in cases like this, recanted, and it
was a very convoluted story about how she had bruises
but it wasn't his fault, and on and on. So

(01:39:51):
if you remember that story, the fallout from that in Mills'
personal life, according to Lindsay Langston, was that she discovered
that he had a girlfriend in Washington, d C.

Speaker 5 (01:40:03):
She was his girlfriend in living in Samurna Beach.

Speaker 4 (01:40:06):
One way to find out at the.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
Time, she asked Corey Mills about this relationship, and Mills,
according to Langston, said, and a lot of this reporting
from Salenberger is based on text messages and videos that
he sent to her, so we don't just have to
go by her word here. By the way, she is
a Florida Republican State committee woman as well as being

(01:40:31):
the reigning Miss USA.

Speaker 5 (01:40:33):
He told her the news made the whole.

Speaker 3 (01:40:36):
Thing up, that he never had a girlfriend there, that
this was a completely fabricated event, but not just that
he didn't hit her, but that the whole thing doesn't exist.
She then, not being a moron, finds a bunch of
social media posts with this woman and him was like, okay,

(01:40:56):
like this is clearly.

Speaker 5 (01:41:00):
Seems to be the case. This happened, Like you're you're
lying here.

Speaker 3 (01:41:04):
So then they break up, uh, and that's where it
gets really bad, and Corey Mills sends her, you know,
an intensome number of threats, which she then reported to
the police. So there's a police report that she filed
in July followed by this restraining order, and according to
the police report, and according to Roger's reporting, she shared these,

(01:41:28):
she said, shared text messages of all of these threats,
threatening her, threatening threatening anybody that she made date in
the future.

Speaker 8 (01:41:37):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
If you want the sort of details, I recommend you
go read the the drop site piece. But I think
what you'll come away with in what I came away
with from it was I understood Corey Mills to be
quite something. To put it delicately, I was stunned. Yeah,

(01:41:58):
I was like, this guy, is this guy's beyond what
your baseline assumed level of crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Well, it's a I mean, on top of all of
what you just explained. Corey Mills, it should be noted,
was at least previously seen as a real up and
coming star amongsts right Republican has to representative the conference.
He was seen as like a big deal with somebody

(01:42:29):
who would have a big future in Republican politics. And
so this is a fairly significant development because I think
a lot of the buzz around him since Stallenberger started
doing his reporting on Mills has dissipated. This has been
a saga that's played out over months now with the reporting,
but ran The other thing that's worth mentioning is I
believe the girlfriend who filed and retracted her comments, who

(01:42:54):
made and then retracted her comments about being abused is
Iranian American right and works with an Iranian activist group.
Mills is an arms dealer, right. He's also not fully divested,
if I'm remembering this correctly, He's not fully divested from
his defense contracting work.

Speaker 5 (01:43:14):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:43:14):
No, not at all oyes. He's still heavily invested in
arm arms dealing.

Speaker 4 (01:43:19):
So on top of this being clearly an affair, and
I think the abuse allegations being very credible, though she
did retract them. I mean, I've covered a lot of
cases like this. I can't say for sure what happened.
It looks to me more likely than not that they're accurate,
But of course can't say that because I can't say

(01:43:40):
that with certainty because she's taken them away.

Speaker 3 (01:43:42):
Right, she said she got the bruises days earlier, someone
fell at the airport, or like just it didn't stuff
that wasn't even trying to be credible.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
Right, it didn't check out. So and again she may
genuinely just be sincerely dedicated to the cause that she's
advocating for. But when you put all of these different
parts together, with him being offense contractor member of Congress
who's not divested from that business, being in this ostensibly
two time in relationship with somebody who works for an

(01:44:11):
running American activist group, those things are likely not a coincidence.
There's something happening behind.

Speaker 5 (01:44:16):
The scenes and in the in the restraining order.

Speaker 3 (01:44:19):
You know, she says like she she blocked him all
over the place on Instagram, blocked his number. Uh, he
would call from the capital.

Speaker 5 (01:44:29):
It's a presume. Presumably it was him calling from the Capitol.

Speaker 3 (01:44:32):
She didn't pick up the phone, but she showed a
screenshot of the of the call from the Capitol. He
would create new Instagram accounts to message her with with
these uh, with these various with these various threats. And
Roger has also spoken with a number of other three
other former romantic partners who shared anecdotes very similar to

(01:44:57):
the ones that have been public which, like I said,
Family Program, we want need to get into any of
it now.

Speaker 5 (01:45:06):
And so.

Speaker 3 (01:45:08):
There's a lot more to this story and to Congress
and Mills. Well, we look forward to rolling that out
in the not too distant future.

Speaker 4 (01:45:16):
Well a lot more so the Blaze has already picked
up your story, it looks like. But so the Blaze
has done a lot of reporting. I don't know if
they'd give you a credit or not, or if they
got this individually, but the Blaze has done a lot
of reporting from the right on Corey Mills, which is
quite interesting. Corey Mills's wife so by the way, he's married,

(01:45:40):
he's been separated from his wife since I believe what
twenty twenty two. And on top of that, he his
wife is I believe a Rocky. I think she's actually
from a rock so he's There's just so much strange
stuff happening in this story that could be like compliment

(01:46:03):
reading Rogers Sallenberger's piece and drops out with the reporting
in the Blaze, because there's a lot of it. They
had a really long story a few months back that
was fascinating on this question. So, uh, there's definitely something
more happening, wouldn't you say, Ryan, I mean, you've reported
on this type of thing way more than I have.

(01:46:23):
It just seems like there are a lot of unanswered
questions about what maybe is behind the even behind the
things that have been Oh yes, disclosed public.

Speaker 3 (01:46:33):
Oh yes, so, yes, there's a lot more to this,
the arms trafficking, the the business relationships, the yes, there's
there's a lot going on here.

Speaker 4 (01:46:44):
This is the lead of a Blaze story from earlier
this summer. Corey mill is the Florida Republican who has
in recent months faced allegations of stolen valor undergoing a
secret Islamic conversion, holding weapons contracts with the federal government
when serving in Congress, and domestic of isolence appears to
leap prognancy yet another scandal, this time over a luxury
apartment in Washington, DC. And they are setting the Stalenberger

(01:47:07):
reporting here, So just go where.

Speaker 3 (01:47:10):
Like he didn't pay rent for like eighty thousand dollars
worth of rent, and like he has millions of dollars
of corporate debt tied to this arms trafficking. It's and
and he's actively voting one of the key swing votes
in a divided Congress YEP, on matters directly that directly

(01:47:30):
implicate his arms business.

Speaker 4 (01:47:32):
Great point, So go reporting, and thanks for bringing this story.

Speaker 5 (01:47:36):
To US's gonna have more, all.

Speaker 4 (01:47:38):
Right, Let's move on to Aaron Baker, speaking of Florida,
speaking of Florida. Men, we're going to talk a little
bit about Randy front Fine with his Republican primary opponent,
Aaron Baker. The primary is coming up in over a
year at this point, but Baker is gaining traction online
by speaking out against Randy Fine's odious comments on the
Palestinian people, people in Gaza. So let's bring in erin now.

(01:48:02):
We are joined now by Aaron Baker. He is a
candidate for Florida's sixth district in the primary race against
Representative Republican Representative Randy Fine. Erin.

Speaker 10 (01:48:13):
Thank you for being here, Thank you pleasure to be here.

Speaker 4 (01:48:16):
Okay, So Randy Fine was elected in April. Your primary
is about a year away. Still, Randy Fine obviously has
a big cash advantage. You ran against him earlier this
year and he had lots of money and basically I
ended up with I think like eighty three percent of
the vote in the primary, something to that level in
a red district. So can you tell us a little
bit about why you initially decided to run for that

(01:48:38):
seat that Fine ended up winning earlier this year, and
then why you're getting back in and running again.

Speaker 16 (01:48:46):
I had a group of Republicans from the sixth district
approached me and explained to me that we had to
have someone that has morals run in the Florida Congressional district.
There is a very big contingent of people that do

(01:49:06):
not agree with the rhetoric, do not agree with the
basic principles that mister Fine represents, and that certainly don't
believe that he represents this congressional district very well if
at all.

Speaker 5 (01:49:21):
Let's do play a little flavor.

Speaker 3 (01:49:22):
If people have somehow lived under a rock and haven't
had the joy of being confronted by Randy Fines rhetoric,
let's put F one, just roll out one.

Speaker 18 (01:49:33):
Is not Israel's job to feed and clothe and bathe
and arm the Gazins until they're strong enough to conduct
another October seventh.

Speaker 5 (01:49:43):
So that's my simple point. There are people starving in Gaza.

Speaker 18 (01:49:47):
It's called the hostages that are still alive, and they
need to be released, and they need to be released.

Speaker 15 (01:49:53):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:49:54):
We can put up F two where he said, you know,
release the hostages until then starve away ah, and then
the weird parenthetical that it actually they're not starving, but
they should uh any day of the week, any hour
of the day pretty much. You can find Randy Fine

(01:50:14):
posting something diabolically genocidal on his on his.

Speaker 4 (01:50:17):
Account, and he's in Israel right now, we should.

Speaker 5 (01:50:19):
Say, in Israel as we speak.

Speaker 3 (01:50:23):
Can you talk a little bit more about what the
reaction has been in his in his district? And I mean,
isn't this kind of what people expected? Like this, this
is who he was before? Like why would why now
is it going to be a problem.

Speaker 10 (01:50:39):
Well, we knew this.

Speaker 16 (01:50:41):
This was exactly what we were going to get with
Representative Fine. And I mean, you know, you can't change
the spots on a leopard. It's exactly We knew exactly
what we were going to get. That's why I ran
against him in the first place. In the last couple
of day last week or so, I think have come

(01:51:03):
out as the number one opponent because I will speak
out against genocide and I will speak out against starvation.
There's not one child in the world that should starve
to death on America's watch.

Speaker 4 (01:51:17):
So, like Representative Marjorie Taylor Green, it's your position that
what's happening right now in Gaza is a genocide. And
can you tell us a little bit about based on
what you just said, And can you tell us a
little bit about how you arrived at that conclusion. It's
my understanding that you have been a fairly pro Israel Republican.
So do you still see yourself that way? How does

(01:51:38):
this fit into your sort of broader outlook on the
nation of Israel.

Speaker 16 (01:51:42):
So I support the defense of Israel, but let me
explain the defense that I support. I support us helping
with the Iron Dome system. I do not, in any way,
shape or form, support any offensive weapons. And there's no
way that we should be paying for seventy percent of
Israel's defense. I think even at this point, the crowd

(01:52:04):
on J Street has come to the same conclusion that
I have. That this is genocide, that this is starvation.
There's no there's no two ways around it.

Speaker 3 (01:52:16):
What are you even hearing from Republican primary voters on
that on that question.

Speaker 10 (01:52:22):
That they're absolutely appalled by every single moment that Representative
find opens his mouth, they're absolutely appalled.

Speaker 3 (01:52:31):
And what about when you say I think we should
not send offensive weapons to Israel?

Speaker 5 (01:52:38):
Like how they agree? Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:52:40):
Agree? I mean this is a Trump plus thirty district.

Speaker 16 (01:52:43):
That's the only way that Representative find got elected in
the first pet In the first place, this is common sense.
This is America first, America, second America, third, America, fourth, America, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth.
Americans do not want to be involved in endless wars.
We need to help the people here. I hear about

(01:53:06):
issues on the ground, infrastructure, the economy, flooding. That's what
we're concerned about in the sixth Congressional District. And I
understand that as a United States representative, you're in charge
of helping the rest of the United States. But you're
in charge of helping the rest of the United States,

(01:53:26):
you're not in charge.

Speaker 10 (01:53:27):
Of protecting the entire world.

Speaker 16 (01:53:29):
We're talking about a representative who has zero respect at
all for freedom or the rights of everyday Americans. We're
talking about a genocidal, literally genocidal representative member of Congress
versus someone me that will speak up and say this

(01:53:49):
is not right.

Speaker 10 (01:53:51):
I do not support genocide halfway around the world.

Speaker 4 (01:53:55):
And tell us a little bit more about how you
ended up getting involved in politics, your background, because I
think you know the question of what actually how we
define America. First on the right, what that looks like
in practice is sort of still being hashed out. But
my assumption, based only one I've read about your background, is
that Trump himself and the Moniker America first was something

(01:54:18):
that sort of drew you to get more and more
involved because like a lot of people who you heard
that and said, yes, this is exactly what I feel
after watching what's happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria, Libya,
and we could go on and on and down the list.
So tell us a little bit about how you got
involved in what that means to you.

Speaker 16 (01:54:38):
So I got involved with early vote action in Pennsylvania
during the twenty four presidential election because I never bought
into the narrative that Florida was a purple state. Florida
is not a purple state. Florida is bright red state.
That is not going to change anytime soon. But I'm

(01:54:58):
a numbers guy, so I can't looking at, Okay, how
do we get to two seventy? How do we get
to two seventy? And it seemed to me like the
number one way to get there was through Pennsylvania. We
didn't have, you know, we didn't have a crystal ball
to say that Trump's going to win every single swing state.

Speaker 10 (01:55:17):
So I said, okay, I have family in Maryland.

Speaker 16 (01:55:19):
What can I do from Florida to be involved and
to make sure the President Trump gets re elected. So
I would fly back and forth from Orlando to Baltimore
on my favorite Spirit Airlines, my Florida based airline.

Speaker 10 (01:55:34):
And it was cheap. I have a place to stay there.

Speaker 16 (01:55:37):
I could drive from the Baltimore area up to Pennsylvania.

Speaker 10 (01:55:41):
Made a lot of good friends up there.

Speaker 16 (01:55:43):
And whether it was handing out signs, whether it was
standing on the side of the road, and we encountered
people out there that would you know, spit at you,
throw water bottles at you, curse at you.

Speaker 10 (01:55:56):
It's a completely different world than.

Speaker 16 (01:56:00):
But I just tried to do everything in my power
to make sure the President Trump was elected in twenty
four And after that, I came home and I thought, Okay,
back to work. I'm a general contractor. Our business partners
with a general contractor, and you know, I just got
back to work. And then after Congressman Waltz was appointed

(01:56:23):
as National Security Advisor, then the group of Republicans approached
me and said, we need someone with common sense to
be able to go to Washington and say, okay, I
am not going to take APAC money. I believe APAX
should be registered as a foreign lobbyist. They lobby for
a foreign country, I'll do it.

Speaker 10 (01:56:46):
Sign me up.

Speaker 3 (01:56:48):
And the special election only had something like fifty thousand
people turn out. You know, I don't have the exact
numbers in front of me. Randy Fine got like thirty thousand.
You got what five thousand or so?

Speaker 5 (01:57:00):
Small?

Speaker 3 (01:57:01):
It's a sub small subset of the electorate, but it
was a wide margin thanks to Trump's intervention and endorsement
of Randy Fine.

Speaker 5 (01:57:10):
What are you gonna do?

Speaker 3 (01:57:12):
You expect him to get Trump's endorsement again, And if
he does, how do you still have a path?

Speaker 16 (01:57:19):
No way, if you if you go back and look,
my cost per vote was six dollars. That's unheard of
because I get out there every single day during the
special election. I went to sixty eight different events. I
crossed paths with mister Fine three times three. That's it.

(01:57:40):
It's a mail in election. Who can send out the
most bright, shiny palm cards. And you know I don't
have millions of dollars. I have thousands of dollars. So
I ran a congressional race on thirty thousand dollars, and
he ran a congressional race on a zillion dollars, so

(01:58:00):
cost per vote six dollars versus cost per vote. And
I'm only speaking in the primary. The general that it
was off the charts cost per vote one hundred dollars
for mister Fine.

Speaker 10 (01:58:12):
So I don't need the money that he has.

Speaker 16 (01:58:14):
I will get out there and I go to all
these events over the weekend. I was set up in
Flagler County, I'll be in Saint John's County. I live
in Lake County, so I actually live in the district
where mister Fine lives one hundred miles south and thinks
that he lives sixty five hundred miles to the west
or to the east rather well.

Speaker 4 (01:58:35):
Last question for me, Aaron, is I think in the
past you've suggested on this note that it's using Susie
Wiles that contributed to the endorsement of Randy Fine. Susie
Wild's obviously has had a career as of a lobbyist's
very well connected and establishment Republican circles down in Florida.
By you, have you learned any more on that since

(01:58:56):
making that point, I imagine you've heard from people who
didn't like it. But maybe you've got more information on
that as well. Is that still your understanding of how
Randy Fine originally got the Trump endorsement and maybe would
get another Trump endorsement.

Speaker 16 (01:59:09):
Well, the first the first Trump endorsement was a return
favor for we can say for raising money during the
special or during President Trump's election for.

Speaker 10 (01:59:22):
President Trump's legal fund.

Speaker 16 (01:59:24):
We can say that it's because Congressman Fine was the
first in Florida to switch sides from DeSantis to President Trump.
I mean, we can say whatever we want. I've been
told and I hate to be told things because I

(01:59:45):
love freedom and I love to be able to speak
my mind.

Speaker 10 (01:59:49):
And there's a lot to unpack. But I've been.

Speaker 16 (01:59:52):
Told to lay off Susie Wilds. But that's the problem.
I don't have any way to slice it. That's the
number one. That's why we're in this situation. If she
had not picked Congressman Fine, the sixth District of Florida
would not be embarrassed. I hear from people all across
the state and they're like, Aaron, we are so embarrassed

(02:00:15):
that this is our congressman.

Speaker 10 (02:00:17):
He supports genocide. You don't you know? Feed the children.
I didn't know that feed the children is going to
be a campaign slogan, but it seems to be.

Speaker 3 (02:00:27):
Yeah, it's genuinely embarrassing. I gotta say, deeply, deeply and
so like no offense, but to be an embarrassment in
Central Florida. This guy's around the bend. It's just utterly incredible.

Speaker 16 (02:00:41):
It's it's hard to do. But we knew, we knew
what was going to happen. We knew the ethics complaints
in the past, we knew the outstanding court cases. We
knew the anger management that he the court ordered anger
management that he still hasn't completed. We knew all of
this going in, and we tried to stop it, and
the powers that be said, you are the anointed one.

Speaker 3 (02:01:05):
Well, we'll say again, it's going to be an interesting
race and we'll keep we'll keep a close eye on it.

Speaker 4 (02:01:09):
Yeah, and keep us updated erin because we're going to
be we're gonna be covering it for sure. So we
appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on.

Speaker 10 (02:01:16):
I appreciate being here. Thank you very much. God bless
you both, God bless Emily.

Speaker 5 (02:01:21):
What do you would you think of mister Baker?

Speaker 4 (02:01:25):
Yeah, I thought he was super real challenge you think, uh,
you know, there's there's over a year ago, Randy Fine
had a lot of money in the last primary. If
he maintains the support of people like Susie Wiles and others,
I think, you know, as long as the money is
on his side. These primaries really are decided by money.
And like in the presidential election.

Speaker 5 (02:01:46):
And a Trump endorsement, yeah, and the Trump.

Speaker 4 (02:01:48):
Endorsement the presidential elections, you start you see money mattering
less and less to be honest, because it gets to
the point where it's so even and when it's Trump,
he gets so much earned media it's like doesn't even
need to buy commercials. But in these little primary elections,
money makes a huge difference. And so if if he's
not able to outraise significantly Brandy Fine, who's the incumbent,

(02:02:10):
it'd be really difficult.

Speaker 3 (02:02:11):
But then again, if the breaking points of audience sends
him a million.

Speaker 4 (02:02:14):
Bucks, I that can do it. But that I was
gonna say that again. This issue is for Maga. So
MAGA is the primary electorate, and the primary electorate in
Florida is going to want to see I'm sure is
going to be pretty divided. Over this question. So I
definitely think he has a chance, and you know, we'll

(02:02:37):
we'll certainly follow the campaign. Yeah, what did you make
of it? He also didn't go full like.

Speaker 3 (02:02:44):
In the past he's been. He's been pretty standard supporter
of Israel.

Speaker 4 (02:02:49):
Yeah, he said he supports the defense of Israel.

Speaker 3 (02:02:51):
Right right, And I and I think, you know, partly
it's him drawing contrast with with Randy Fine to come
out and say if you're only a second, you know,
high profile Republicans say that they're carrying out a genocide.

Speaker 5 (02:03:08):
But I think he wouldn't do that.

Speaker 3 (02:03:11):
In a Republican primary if he thought that it would
make him unviable. So clearly, you know, his his finger
on the pulse of the Republican electorate is that you
can be a bold critic of Israel and still get
through a Republican primary. Yeah, and we'll see if he

(02:03:32):
turns out. So much will depend on whether Trump reindorses Fine.
And I think on the one hand, Trump could because
he's finds been loyal to him. Yeah, But on the
other hand, the guy, like Aaron said, he's a complete embarrassment.

Speaker 4 (02:03:48):
He is, and it's starting to become I mean, he's
trying to outflank literally every Republican on the question of
hugging NATSA NAHU tighter and tighter and tighter to the
point of ridiculousness, to the point where even APAC tried
to distance themselves from Randy Fine recently, as you mentioned, Ryan,
So it's a you could see Trump really going either

(02:04:08):
way on this. On the one hand, like this is
just a sloppy and embarrassing political strategy from Randy Fine
that is unbecoming from the perspective of Trump, unbecoming of
somebody in this position. On the other hand, you could
just say, look, he's loyal. We don't want to take
an l on this. We were the ones who backed

(02:04:29):
him in the first place. So we'll see. But at
some point, if the public sentiment starts to shift enough
that can force the hand yep, we'll see. All right,
Well that does it for us on today's edition of
Breaking Points, Ryan, you're going to be around for the
Friday show around okay? Cool?

Speaker 5 (02:04:46):
All right, Well in there for a while, so I'm
looking forward to it.

Speaker 4 (02:04:48):
Yes, there's something a little bit more chill about the Fridays.
I mean, I guess, yeah, you might have Well, no, no,
we missed you.

Speaker 5 (02:04:58):
Yes, that's right exactly. The show didn't even happen if
I wasn't there.

Speaker 4 (02:05:02):
Yeah, if Ryan grim If a show airs without Ryan
Grimm in a forest, is anyone there to Those.

Speaker 5 (02:05:07):
Are the questions. All right, I'll see you then.

Speaker 4 (02:05:09):
Sounds good, see you all then,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}8/6/25: New Epstein House Pics, Trump Greenlights Gaza Conquest, Panic Over Jobs Report & MORE!

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

8/6/25: New Epstein House Pics, Trump Greenlights Gaza Conquest, Panic Over Jobs Report & MORE!

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce