9/11/25: Charlie Kirk Assassinated In Utah

Krystal and Saagar discuss the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's assassination in Utah.

 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone. Immediately after we finished our recording, there actually
was some new information. We're going to add this to
the very top. So I'm just going to go ahead
and share some of the latest from law enforcement. This
is from the law enforcement press conference. This is at
nine to twenty six am Eastern time. Just for dating purposes,
I'm going to go ahead and play this about what
they know about the individual.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
We were able to track the movements of the shooter
starting at eleven fifty two am. This subject arrived on
campus shortly away from campus. We have tracked his movements
onto the campus through the stairwells up to the roof,
across the roof to a shooting location. After the shooting,

(00:41):
we were able to track his movements as he moved
to the other side of the building, jumped off of
the building, and fled off of the campus and into
a neighborhood. Our investigators have worked through those neighborhoods, contacting
anybody they can with doorbell cameras, witnesses, and have thoroughly

(01:02):
worked through those communities trying to identify any leads. We
do have good video footage of this individual.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
We are not going to release that at this time.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
We're working through some technologies and some ways to identify
this individual. If we are unsuccessful, we will reach out
to you as the media and we will push that
publicly to help us identify them. But we are confident
in our abilities right now, and we would like to
move forward in a manner that keeps everyone safe and
moves this process appropriately.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
So that's big news. They do have what we really
discussed in our segment about how it was pretty shocking
that they had not released any any information or video there.
We do have one more thing that we can play
here about the rifle, which the weapon they believe that
they've discovered. I'm going to go ahead and play that
as well.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
This morning.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
I can tell you that we have recovered what we
believe is the weapon that was used in yesterday's shooting.
There's a high powered bolt action rifle. That rifle was
recovered in a wooded area where the shooter had fled,
so the FBI laboratory will be analyzing this weapon. Investigators

(02:13):
have also collected footwear impression, a palm print, and forearm
imprints for analysis. I understand there are a lot of
questions about motive. I assure you that all leads, tips
and tips are being fully investigated. As of this morning,
we received more than one hundred and thirty tips. We

(02:35):
think the community for that. This morning, I can tell
you that we have recovered.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
So there you go, they've recovered a high powered rifle.
So those are the two kind of addendums that just
to add into that, keep that in context. Anything else
you want to add, Crystal before we throw to our
original comments.

Speaker 5 (02:50):
No, I think that's it.

Speaker 6 (02:50):
Yeah, just guys, we record our whole thing and then
right afterwards there's this press conference, so you know, just
take that additional information in as you're listening to our commentary. Obviously,
the some of the specifics have changed about what we
know about the potential suspect, but I think all the
overall commentary on what it means for the country, et cetera,

(03:11):
continues to stand. So all right, guys, we'll keep you
updated best we can. And Ryan, Emily and I will
be doing a Friday show tomorrow as well.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Hello everybody, it is It's Thursday, and we had to
do a little bit of special programming today because conservative
activist Charlie Kirk was shot and murdered yesterday in Utah.
So we're coming in from home. I think people can hear.
You know, it's a it's a very difficult story to cover,

(03:41):
and we're going to take everybody through it, and we're
going to talk a little bit about kind of what
it means, you know, to us, and kind of what
I think we means, you know, to the mission of
the show, and just generally about the country and all
of that. But we do think, you know, this is
a place where we have to show up. We've got
to do the news. So so why don't we just

(04:01):
go ahead and start, you know, with everything that we know.
You know. Crazily enough, it was literally happened as we
were planning the show for the next day, and we
all found out in real time.

Speaker 6 (04:13):
So yeah, Emily started sending us messages and none of
us could believe it. And before we get into what
we know, which frankly, I mean, we waited to put
anything out last night because there's always you know, misdirection
and things that are wrong, et cetera, and usually things
shake out and you get a clear picture of what
the hell happened. And I can't say that we know

(04:33):
that much more this morning than we did yesterday. From
everybody at breaking points from me. Sager, Ryan and Emily
also wanted us to convey our horror at the at
the whole thing, and our deepest consolences to Charlie's family,
his wife, his two kids who were there on the
scene when he was shot and murdered in this political

(04:55):
assassination that happened in broad daylight. So here's what we know.
Let me go ahead and set the scene a little bit.
This was you know, Charlie has known for his college tours.
This was the first stop of a college tour. This
was in Utah at Utah Valley University. And you know,
it looked like a looked like a normal day. He

(05:17):
was out, he was throwing hats into the crowd, and
then suddenly gunfire erupts and you can see everybody scattering
and screams and chaos. You guys have probably seen the
actual video of his murder, which was captured on camera,
and if you haven't seen it, I recommend you don't

(05:38):
watch it because the image will haunt you for.

Speaker 5 (05:41):
The rest of your life. Absolute horror.

Speaker 6 (05:44):
Single shot to the neck and he instantly collapses. The students,
of course flee as we showed you there, and what
we have come to find out from video, and you know,
from from what we've learned at the scene, is that
the shooter was apparently on a nearby roof. Let me

(06:06):
go ahead and share this piece so you can see
a little bit of you know, what this looked like.
So you can see this image here appears to be
the shooter and Sagar, you know, as we're putting the
pieces of this together, and Charlie was taken to the
hospital and then you know, later died while he was

(06:28):
there receiving medical care. And anyone who saw that wound
I think was pretty convinced pretty quickly that he wasn't
going to be able to make it. But the shooter
was quite a distance away. Immediately, the police arrested an
older man who was in the crowd. There were some
eyewitnesses who said that he had claimed responsibility, this old

(06:50):
man that was in the crowd, even though yet was unarmed.
There's video also of him being dragged off where he's saying,
shoot me, shoot me, acting very strange. Meanwhile, the actual
gunman was on this the roof. Estimates are some two
hundred yards away. I'm not expert on guns, but you know,
we've all sort of spoken to people in our lives
that we know who say this. You know, this would
be a difficult shot, and it was a single shot,

(07:11):
and obviously, you know, shot to kill, and so far
has successfully evaded capture.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, the circumstances beyond the sheer horror of the actual murder,
the circumstances of this assassination are really honestly shocking. So
I'm going to go ahead and put this map up
here on the screen just so that people can see.
So this was if you're watching exactly where Charlie was shot,
kind of in a lawn, you know, almost auditorium style

(07:40):
place at the Utah Valley University campus, and a video
showed a person on the roof before the shooting about
four hundred and thirty feet away. So if you're looking
at this diagram, you can actually see the rooftop where
some of the video actually captured. You know, this individual
are suspected individual. Part of the thing is, you know,
we really don't still know a lot right now. You

(08:03):
had that initial suspects, not even suspect. You had a
person who was taken into custody who faced questioning and
definitely was acting very strangely That was followed by the
FBI Director Cash Ptel, who said that there was a
subject in custody that was a second subject actually in custody.
I can go ahead and put that up there on

(08:26):
the screen as well, because it just shows the chaotic
nature so far of a lot of the communication from
law enforcement. They say that the subject in custody has
been released after an interrogation by law enforcement. Our investigation
continues and we will continue to release information in the
interest of transparency. But that is the last communication that
we had gotten from the FBI director so far, and

(08:47):
the manhunt remains underway.

Speaker 6 (08:49):
And incredibly irresponsible, frankly to put out such a you know,
his initial statement. People really felt like, oh, they got
the guy right. There was a press conference with law
enforcement and other electeds that they were contradicting each other
at that point, whether they had a suspect and custody
or not, whether there was an ongoing manhunt or not.

(09:11):
In addition to the old man that was seemingly acting
very bizarre at this at the scene but has now
been released, there was another another guy that they arrested.
I think that actually is the subject that Cash was
Pashtel was referring to here.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
Also turned out to be uninvolved.

Speaker 6 (09:30):
He'd been like a Heritage Foundation staff or so, just
you know, part of the sort of conservative firmament. I
don't know why they picked him up at all, but
extremely bizarre. You know, at this point, basically the only
thing that we have heard definitively about the appearance of
this you know, of this individual, the assassin, is that

(09:50):
they were dressed all in black. There was some audio
released from a police scanner that you know, said we're
looking for a subject who's dressed all in black.

Speaker 5 (09:58):
That's basically it.

Speaker 6 (10:00):
We don't have any any photos of any suspects. We
haven't heard anything about any any tips or intelligence. Now
maybe there are things going on behind the scenes, but
the fact they had two separate individuals in custody that
they questioned and released and have not put out any
information to the public to try to apprehend anyone, I mean,
it's it's deeply concerning.

Speaker 5 (10:22):
And uh, all.

Speaker 6 (10:23):
The experts who've looked at this say, this looked like
an extremely professional job. You know, the shot itself would
be would be difficult, and you know, single shot, single
kill shot. Then he's able to seemingly flawlessly escape and
escape justice at least up to up to this point
in the day. You know, soccer, can you do you

(10:45):
mind putting that map up on the screen if you
have it, because if you look at that building, uh,
there is a parking lot too that is right behind
the building that you know that the shooter was a
lleged you know that we think that the shooter was
on when he murdered Charlie Kirk. And so the thought
is that he was able to, you know, escape from

(11:07):
this building while the crowd is fleeing, while they're bothered,
you know, busy arresting this old man who has apparently
nothing to do with it, he's able to probably go
to this parking lot and escape and vanish so far
into thin air. So from the difficulty of the shot,
the execution of that, to the ability to get away

(11:27):
from the scene and you know and take advantage of
these you know, diversions, makes it seem like it was intentional.
I guess that's not completely onto the question, but take
advantage of this chaos to be able to exit. This
was someone who knew what they were doing. This was
not some random radicalized in cel on the internet or whatever.
This was someone you know, someone who had a lot

(11:48):
of experience in marksmanship and who had a plan and
was able to execute it.

Speaker 7 (11:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
What I heard from a few gun experts is they
were like, look, it's not that two hundred yards is
a difficult shot. It's their life. You know, somebody could
do it. They would have to know some familiarity. Generally,
laying in the prone makes it a lot easier in
terms of the sniping direction. But I think actually you
have to combine it with the totality of what we've

(12:14):
seen in the executions so far wearing black also, you know,
laying in the prone, finding a position, planning the attack,
having a way of egress, evading capture, some thirteen out.
Keep in mind, everybody, we're recording this around eight thirty
am Eastern Standard time, Eastern time, so people should just
remember that, you know, information can break very quickly. But

(12:37):
this is largely not just our you know, assessment, it's
also the assessment of some law enforcement experts. You know,
the CNN actually had a guest on who made this
very point. So I'm going to go ahead and play
a little bit from what they were saying.

Speaker 8 (12:52):
In a case like this, you're looking for someone who
has detachment and a lack of empathy, who likes to
be in control the offender. Characteristics of the assassin sniper
are something that's been studied very closely, especially by the
Secret Service, and it's someone who's methodical and patient, self reliant.

(13:16):
In other words, Caitlin, this is the kind of person
who would have planned to get in silently, try to
be invisible, take this shot, accomplish the mission, take the
gun with them, and leave little evidence behind, which is
why I think they're having a very difficult time getting
started on this. This is someone who was a.

Speaker 7 (13:38):
Planner and John Also, what stood out to me from
what we heard from officials earlier was they said it
was a single shot that was fired. It wasn't multiple
shots in Charlie Kirk's direction. They said it was about
two hundred yards away from where he was sitting under
that tent. What does that tell you about the person's
familiarity with firearms?

Speaker 8 (13:58):
That tells you that the person is not new to shooting.
That they understood exactly what type of long rifle to bring,
what kind of optics in terms of scopes and sites
to have on that What the windage was that might
affect a shot from that distance. This is someone who
knew exactly what they were doing and is probably known

(14:21):
to others, and this may be working to the advantage
of law enforcement as someone who has a long history
in shooting an amateur.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
So I think that that's very important to keep in
mind here. That's what they're saying now so far, you know,
in terms of the initial assessment, and I think, you know,
again combining the totality of the shot, of the execution
of getting out. If we think a little bit more recently,
one of the more high profile assassinations that we saw
with Luigi Mangioni, there's a couple of differences because Maggioni,

(14:55):
you know, came up very close to the United Healthcare CEO.
Of course, you know, he was able to escape, but
he also was you know, he made a couple of
mistakes there with security camera footage they were releasing images.
Law enforcement again to this point, has not released any
image at all of the suspect. In fact, the press

(15:15):
conference that they gave so that the CCTV footage was
grainy and it just simply showed a person in black.
Presumably Also, the FBI is going to be doing like
a cell phone location ping, which they're able to do
and they've done in high profile investigations as well, to
try and narrow all of the individuals who were there.
I was looking at some maps of the area. There

(15:36):
was a freeway very close by and obviously was a
very chaotic situation, you know, to be able to go
away and get in. There's some three thousand people who
actually attended the event. But broadly, you know, at this point,
the fact that you've evaded capture for some twelve hours,
more than twelve hours now since this attack does show
and also the release of two suspects says this is

(15:57):
a difficult investigation right now for the f and it
does tell us also, you know, with the information, the
conflicting information and all the stuff that came out, it
is it's pretty shocking, and it does I think also
what we can focus on is this, you know, if
we look at some of that you were talking about,
the crazed lunatic attacks, very often those lead in suicide.

(16:19):
They are martyrs who immediately are identified confronted by law enforcement.
In this particular case, I think the fact that the
shooter fled had a plan in the very beginning that
there's been no claim, manifesto, et cetera. Actually is a
message in and of itself that this person, at the

(16:40):
very least, you know, wanted to evade capture. Now again
keep in mind that could be still a single individual.
The DC sniper case. If we originally think back to that,
there was a lot of speculation to the planned nature
of it. It was it's crazy. Actually we're talking on
the day of nine to eleven, the twenty fourth anniversary
since the nine to eleven attacks that happened in the

(17:01):
wake of that, and there was a lot of worry
about terrorism, etc. Obviously it turned out to be you know,
a crazy guy and his son, but he did have
military training and they certainly did, you know, plan a
lot of this round Luigi against similar situations to somebody
who conducted an assassination, high profile assassination, was able to
flee of their own accord, got away for a couple

(17:23):
of days. So it is certainly within the realm of possibility.
But the nature, the political assassin nature of this is
so extraordinary and it really doesn't have a lot of
parallels in modern American history, which we can return to.
But you know, there's also some pretty kind of crazy
information now that's coming out. I want to keep in

(17:44):
mind in speculation, but there was John Solomon over at
who works for I think Real America's Voice, was recently
reporting here on Fox News that there was actually some
foreign intelligence lead involved in Charlie Kirk's assassination. And keep
in mind, look Solomon, you know, he is his own
track record. You can go and look for yourself. I

(18:05):
will say he's the person who broke the Charlie Kirk's
death story. He was the first person to report it
actually over at Real America's Voice, which was the outlet
which hosts the Charlie Kirk program. But here's what he
had to say late last night.

Speaker 9 (18:18):
And that we all lost, no matter what side of
the political all you're on too, we lost something important
in America today. But the case goes on, the investigation
goes on. There's a lot of piecing of evidence together.
We don't have a shooter tonight. We have a couple
of leads, a couple of people that were released that
probably aren't the shooter. They a couple of hot leads,
is a little bit of foreign intelligence, and I think

(18:39):
over the next couple of days, we'll learn a lot
more and hopefully we will bring to justice the evil
person who did what they did to Charlie today.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, I hope.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
So John Solomon's there saying a little bit of foreign intelligence.
It look, it's not deniable. He's got a lot of
sources in the Trump administration. Is one of the favorite
journalists of Donald Trump himself. And we know that Donald
try Trump has actually spent a lot of time actually
on the phone there is let's see, I'm Crystal, if
you just talk, there's some new information. I'm just going

(19:09):
to review it.

Speaker 5 (19:10):
Okay, Yeah, go ahead and take a look at that.

Speaker 6 (19:12):
So Soccer and I also actually actually both have personal
experience with John Solomon. He worked he was our boss
effectively at the Hill when we both started there. I
will say he is not always the most reliable character,
but as Soccer said, he is very well sourced in
the Trump administry. He's close to Trump, He's close to Charlie.
He you know, is I'm sure close with people in
the FBI, probably Cash Betel himself. So you know, that's

(19:34):
why it's worth paying attention to what he says there.
To go back to what Soccer was saying about, Okay, well,
what is the what is the profile? What do we
know of this individual and what they wanted to accomplish.
Unlike we can compare to the recent school shooting in Minnesota.
You know, that person posted long video, there were long journals.

(19:56):
They wanted people to know about them and their psychology
and what they were doing and why with all this symbology.
They also intended to be killed on the same and
killed themselves on the scene. You know, that is a
typical trait oftentimes is you'll see you know, you'll see
a manifesto. You'll see someone who either dies by their
own hands or intends to be killed by the cops.

(20:20):
There's a desire for sort of infamy and notoriety. You
also have, you know, the desire to make some specific
political point and make it really clear and apparent to
the public. In this instance, you know, you have two
things that you can say for sure. This person wanted
a public execution. They wanted it to be on camera.

(20:41):
They wanted all of us to be scrolling through our
Twitter and seeing the gore and the horror, the absolute
horror of this. That was the message they wanted to send.
They wanted all of us to see it. They wanted everyone,
certainly who's a public fee, They wanted everyone to feel
un safe and know that even if you're you know,

(21:03):
Charlie Kirk and you got the president's ear and you've
got a security team around you, that no one is safe.
And we also know that they wanted not to be found, right.
They wanted to do this from a distance. They did
not want to be captured. They wanted to evade justice.
They wanted to get away. As far as we know
at this point, we haven't found or located any sort

(21:25):
of specific manifesto. Now that doesn't mean that this wasn't ideological.
I think, I think, you know, it's very very very
likely ideological. Although you know, you can't rule out there's
all sorts of types of people that this could be.
But I and I think the third thing we can
say for certain is this was someone who planned and
had some level of experience. You know, again, it looks

(21:49):
like it was a professional job. Now, maybe they just
got lucky, you know, maybe this was someone who was
a hunter and pretty good shot and had an idea
of how to get away and was able to pull
it off, you know, without some sort of like people
are speculating this could be a government, this could be terrorists,
this could be foreign intel. I think all those things
are on the table, without going too far down the

(22:11):
speculative rabbit hole, but I think those are the pieces
we know at this point. This was someone who wanted
a spectacle of gore and assassination to haunt all of us,
and someone who wanted to get away and be elusive
and evade capture.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
That's right, And that's again, that is a message in
and of itself. It kind of does rule out some
of the more traditional thing not traditional, but some of
the other high profile incidents that we may have all
witnessed very you know, recently we had the school shooting
in Minneapolis. Often, you know, those lead to murder, suicide,
We've seen attempted assassinate, or even in terrorism. Right, you know,

(22:50):
it's very often that that will be conducted and then
claimed and or you know, you could you want to
create the spectacle there and immediately make sure that your
ideology is felt. The very fact that that hasn't happened
is certainly an indication again of something. And eventually, if
the case does get resolved, we'll learn a little bit why.
My only caution is Luisian Angione very likely conducted a

(23:12):
political or you know, some ideological assassination, at least in
his own mind, and he still fled. Right, So say,
the d C sniper very similar. I mean, he was
obviously just deeply mentally ill. But I mean everything is
on the table because we don't know anything. That's kind
of what's so shocking. I'm not going to share the information.
It's not credible confirmed for me to be able to
bring anything. Yeah, let me just pick.

Speaker 6 (23:32):
Up on the Luigi point because just as a reminder,
and I'd have to go back and look at the timeline.
But it was pretty quickly that we were starting to
get information about Oh he stayed at this hostel. Oh
he ate at this location. Oh, here's the surveillance photo
of him at the hostel. Here's the surveillance photo of
him here. There were very quickly, there were some there
were some pieces, you know, he was able to get

(23:53):
out of the city, but there was some information that
they were in fact working with and you know, pretty
quickly you knew a significant amount about this individual, and
they were able to chase down leads. Again, maybe they
have something that's not public, but typically, you know, in
these early days, if they have an image, they usually

(24:14):
put it out so that people can be on the lookout.
I mean, you remember how the Luigi was apprehended because
somebody right well in somebody at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania
saw him and said, Hey, that looks like the photo
that I saw circulating and called the cops. At least
that's the official story of how that all went down.
So they like to get the public involved if they

(24:34):
don't have a suspect in custody, so that people all
over the place can be looking and calling in tips
and trying to assist in this investigation. Right now, as
far as we know, there is nothing to go on.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, it took about twelve to twenty four hours for
some of that information, so we're still you know that
in that timeframe obviously, but it yeah, I mean, I
think again, it's just it's extraordinary, and it does tell
us at least something that the person wanted to create
this high profile spectacle, they wanted to get away. And

(25:09):
you know, I've been thinking kind of racking my brain
for comparisons, and in modern American history it's there really
are none. I mean, you know, Charlie, and you could
kind of call him whatever you want. He was a
conservative activist, he was an influencer. He's YouTuber, you know,
And that's part of why I think, you know, so
many of us who also do very similar jobs and

(25:30):
participate some similar events, are so shaken and like struck
by it. And it's because everyone has participated, at least
in some form, you know, in something like this. You know,
for more modern comparisons, I mean, I'm not saying that
they're one to one, but obviously we had in the
nineteen sixties, we had the assassinations of people like Malcolm
X or MLK Junior. You did have a period of

(25:54):
a lot of violence, political violence in the nineteen seventies,
the weather underground, you know, the sib Simbonese Liberation Army,
the kidnapping of Patti Hurst. I mean, it was a
crazy time. And we have talked a lot about on
the show over the years about the comparison to the
nineteen seventies, and that's actually almost immediately what I came to.

(26:14):
But there's some really darker ones as well that actually
Ryan was reminding of and I had to go back
and really to look because I'd only read about them
in passing. But probably, you know, maybe the more one
to one comparison would be a guy like Elijah Lovejoy.
He was actually an abolitionist, a newspaper editor in eighteen
thirty seven who was actually killed by a pro slavery mob.

(26:37):
And it was actually quite common during the Civil War
era where pro abolitionist or anti secessionists and others in
the South, journalists, political editors, people who would express those
types of opinions were killed for their political beliefs and
for putting that out there. But that is how far
back I would have to go actually to even find

(26:59):
a comparison to keep it in the realm of Luigi Mangioni.
I've talked about this here on the show also because
of Luigi's own predilections for Japanese culture. But in the
early nineteen thirties, twenties and thirties, in the rise of
the Japanese military state, there was a concept called Geikokujo,

(27:20):
which means kind of like from the bottom to the top,
and it entailed high profile assassination, and assassination was not
something just limited to the government, although it was largely conducted.
It was to target political leaders, opinion leaders, others, for
people to create a purpose of kind of moving towards militarism. Again,

(27:42):
they're not one to one, but you know, the same
social forces are not all that rare. I could also
think to the anarchist movements of the early nineteen hundreds,
Gilded Age oligarchs were targeted columnists and others. Again, they
weren't assassinated. But that's part of what makes us, I think,
so extraordinary. It's so crazy that we're talking. I don't know.

(28:03):
I mean, it's difficult to describe because it's not the
same as nine to eleven obviously, but it does just
feel like a rubicon was crossed yesterday. Yeah, I mean
he was murdered and he was assassinated in cold blood
in front of thousands of people in four.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
K h pet of the world.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, like streamed live stream. And you know, for those
of us who were in the news business, we experienced
his death at like a very visceral level. I mean
we saw the blood literally and the life like leave
his body, and uh, yeah, I don't know. For you know,
it's really poignant. I think to me that it's twenty

(28:43):
four years now after nine to eleven, and it does
feel like a very a very different country. And I
hope I'm not exaggerating or overreacting, but yet, you know,
and we were thinking about Butler. But that's I mean,
I hate to say it, but like that's part of

(29:04):
American political history. We've had multiple presidents who have been assassinated,
We've had the chaining caning of Charles Sumner, you know, legislators.
It's it's not like it was insane right to think
about It's not like it was insane to think about

(29:24):
the death or the targeting of political legislators. But now
it feels like people who engage in American public life
itself very recently from Charlie and also these ministates, I
mean these the recent Minnesota attack that was only a
couple of months ago, where these were state legislators. They're

(29:46):
not household names president right, these are not not even
a congressman, not a senator nothing, right, state senator. I
don't even know who my state senator is. You know
where I live. And so these are people who are like,
you know, no offense, but like are like orbiting the
political system. And I'm Charlie was more. Charlie was more

(30:09):
influential even than those people I think, you know, to
the national politics. But I don't know. That's part of
why it just feels like that Rubicon really was crossed.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
I agree. I agree, Sagaran.

Speaker 6 (30:21):
To me, it's like it's a wake up call of
the era that we were already living in.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
You know that.

Speaker 6 (30:26):
I think we were in a little bit of denial about,
to be honest with you, because I mean even January sixth,
like that was an extraordinarily violent and you know, a
violent upheaval. Obviously, you had the two assassination attempts on
President Trump, but like you said, you know, in a
weird way that that unfortunately attempted presidential assassinations. There's always

(30:49):
going to be someone who wants to kill the president, right,
So it didn't feel like a totally different thing than
we've seen or experienced or read about or heard about before.
Right then you get, yeah, these state legislators, you know,
you also had the attack on Paul Pelosi, right, somebody
maniac who came in who was trying to get to

(31:09):
Nancy Pelosi. Obviously, anyone who is in public life at.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
All, rational baseball shooting, remember.

Speaker 5 (31:15):
That, Yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 6 (31:17):
And anyone who's involved in public life at all, it's
almost just accepted at this point that you're going to
get death threats and that's just like part of the
part of the deal. So, you know, obviously for us
on a personal level, like Charlie was more famous than us,
he had the ear of the pros and more power.
You know, he had this whole organization and he was

(31:38):
an influencer and a YouTuber and whatever. But yeah, I mean,
this is someone who is in our world, right, and
so I think it does change everything in terms of
how anyone is thinking about themselves in public life, the
type of events they're going to say yes to, the
type of availability that they're going to have to the public.

(31:58):
And you know, what, can I say, The country's coming apart, right,
We're we're chock full of guns, you know, a nation
pack full of guns, with mass levels of untreated mental illness.
You know, people don't have access to healthcare system, rampant inequality,
and increasing political extremism where people, you know, people are

(32:20):
radicalized and they feel that the stakes are existential, and
in some you know, in some instances, the stakes do
feel existential, like there there are genuine you know, deep
political divides that are very real in the same way
that in the build up to the Civil War, like
for Southerners, the idea that like your whole you know,

(32:41):
Southern slave owners, the idea that your whole economic model
was going to be taken away, that felt existential to them.
So you know, it's a it's a tinder box, like
it's a powder keg, and it is absolutely it's a
terrifying It's a terrifying moment for those reasons exactly. And
to me, that has to be what this assassin wanted us, Like,

(33:05):
that's what he wants the nation to take away from
this is terror is fear, is the sense that you know,
you you can't speak out, you can't be in a
public place, you can't just have political disagreements and listen,
I'm not going to mince words like I genuinely find
found some of Charlie Kirk's used to be violent, abhorrent,

(33:26):
no one like that doesn't mean you murder some I
mean it's it's horrific because once these things are on
the table, that's the thing that's terrifying too. Is like
I was thinking about the and the epidemic of school shootings, which,
by the way, we had a fucking school shooting yesterday too,
like this is America now where three three students were
critically injured at I believe it was, you know, Denver
High School, So you had Columbine. Prior to Combine, there

(33:48):
were not school shootings, and then after Columbine they're just
coming more and more and more and more and more.
And that's what's so frightening about this moment is that
once you put this idea out there into the ether,
how many other people will be quote unquote inspired by it?
How does this transform the way we all relate to

(34:09):
each other? And then you know, we'll talk about the
presence response in a moment, which was just pouring gasoline
on the fire, which is also what makes this so
frightening for all of us. And you know, I don't
think anyone would be surprised if Trump does use this
as some further crackdown on what he sees as his
political enemies.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well that's why it's so poigning to think about it
on the anniversary of nine to eleven, And you know,
nine to eleven it was kind of the best and
the worst. You know, the day after nine to eleven.
It was a similar it was a somber moment. People
came together, they put the flag in their window from

(34:50):
the newspaper. Yeah, it's crazy, it's twenty four years ago.
There's probably a decent number of people watching this who
don't either weren't alive or don't remember it literally at all.
But it was I was just young enough or just
old enough to kind of remember what that experience was like.
And it's I mean, it's why I'm here. It's the
only reason I've even got interested in politics. And yeah,
and I think, you know, to that tinder box feeling,

(35:13):
I think that's what's so really scary, and I do
think that's what the assassin wanted, and that's why I think,
you know, we really got to try to work against it.
It's like you said with Charlie. I mean, look, I
like Charlie on a personal level. I was telling you, guys,
I mean I was really shaken up by it. I
was literally just talking to him a couple of weeks
ago about what it was like to have kids and
to have a daughter specifically. He invited me on his show,

(35:36):
and you know, honestly took courage for him because he
actually invited me on specifically to talk about Israel, and uh,
you know, it's that's part of what's so crazy about it.
I knew the guy for years. We had our disagreements,
and that's fine. We have our disagreements here every day,
you know, you and me, and we were talking about that,

(35:57):
you know, in the context Emilin and Ryan who enforced
and weren't able to join us, but they definitely wanted to,
both expressing their horror how disgusted they are really by
the whole attack. And I just really don't want to
go down that path again. But I feel like all
of the not only does that the assassin want, but
I also feel like it's to the benefit of a

(36:19):
lot of entrenched kind of political interests. It's also to
the you know, it's like the baseline of engagement for
politics for a lot of people. And that doesn't erase
the existential field because you're right there are Look, politics
is existential, is true. We're not going to lie to you.

(36:39):
I don't means words about that the election was insanely important.
It was, doesn't you know. Not saying that that, of course,
it's not like a gateway to justifying political violence. And yeah,
just like dealing in the aftermath of this feeling of
public life in the in the tinder box of the

(37:01):
country again on the twenty fourth anniversary of nine to eleven,
it all just really kind of comes full circle for
what they wanted, whoever this person was, and the you know,
the the the murdering of someone again, there's something so
twenty twenty five about the attack, you know, Mac, Mac

(37:23):
was not only the fact that we watched it live
basically happened witnessed. I mean the moment I saw the video,
I said, disguised dead, it's it's it's over. But Mac
sent us our producer a video you know, there was
I'm not gonna call him out by name, but like
a TikToker who's like yo TikTok live, like, you know,

(37:44):
creating content out of it almost immediately subscribe and subscribe
to me on my channel, right, And I was like, ah,
I can't believe really that that's kind of where things
are now. And yeah, I mean it's a scared every time,
not just for people who are engaged in public life.
And you know, like I said, I knew, Charlie, you

(38:07):
know that crazy The last time I talked him. We
fought actually about something. I don't think he would mind
me saying that. And you know, to his credit, he
really would talk to a lot of people, and he
had a debate scheduled with Hassan Piker nine days from now, right, uh.

(38:28):
And he did change a lot of people's lives and
their minds. And I mean that's part of what made
him what he was. And I think at the very least, like,
you know, if there's going to be taken anything from that,
it's kind of like the legacy that I would like
to look at. But unfortunately, I think things are going
in a bad direction.

Speaker 6 (38:49):
Well, I think he was very I mean, he was
really important in Trump's reelection. I mean, you know this
whole like gen Z Men shift like Charlie is a
very important part of that, and a lot of the
you know, a lot of the sort of like I
don't like, legacy conservative influencers. I don't when Chica like
sort of like Trump one point zero people who got big,

(39:11):
like you know, the Ben Shapiro and Tim Poole and whatever.
A lot of them have seen some of their influence
and their views fall off as people have moved towards
like Fuenttes and the Croypers and like some other newer
creators as in Gold or as another one.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
Charlie still was.

Speaker 6 (39:27):
You know, it was like at the peak of his
power and combined having this giant network, this you know,
very influential a lot of Republican influencers too, like their
audience or old people like Charlie genuinely had. You could
see there were thousands of people who showed up for
him for this event, thousands of young people who showed
up for him for this event. So he's a very
important part of Trump's reelect. Obviously, was in contact with

(39:52):
Trump himself and other people in the administration on a
regular basis. And you know, I this is not to
dispectlate about who or what or whatever, but it is
notable too that he was in real time really grappling
with some of those divisions in the MAGA coalition what
it means to be America first and probably nowhere And
we covered some of this on the show. Was he

(40:13):
more sort of like torn and under pressure than on
the issue of Israel? And it makes sense because you
have the president who's with Israel one hundred percent of
the way and back in the genocide and doing the
whole thing. And then you have Charlie's young audience that
increasingly has this very different view, and so you could

(40:34):
see in real time the way he was struggling to
balance those things because you know, of course he wants
to maintain his good relationship with the White House.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
He's trying to keep his base happy.

Speaker 6 (40:42):
And whatever, and so you could see playing out before
our eyes like this sort of tug of war for
him of how to position himself. And that's the context
in which he, you know, had you on his show
so you could articulate, you know, your views about it.
He hosted that focused group of young people that we covered,
asking that, you know, what they thought about it, and
sort of letting them talk and also articulate a view

(41:05):
that was divergent for the White House. He's been very
out He's been outspoken on the on the Epstein Files
as well, so you know, he was both kind of
at the peak of his power and also really touching
on some very sensitive and very controversial issues, not even
just with the nation at large, but even within the
Republican the political Republican is actually.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
What's so striking to me is that a guy like me,
knew Charlie and actually had good relations, and that I
was watching Fox News and a guy like Mark Levin
had neutral I mean he was look, he was the
consummate politician. Honestly, he might have been president one day,
like even just thinking about it, like in the level
of fame, the engagement, his ability to kind of navigate
all the political coalitions from a very early age, engaged

(41:50):
with the political process. He was basically on a first
name basis with like every Republican senator. I would say,
you know, outside of Trump, JD and Elon, he's one
of the most respect people for the Trump election. In
twenty twenty four TPUSA events, you know, we're critical, critical,
especially in the gen Z men swing to the right. Uh.

(42:11):
And you know, again, because we don't know the motivation
of this shooter or like what they even want to cause,
it's kind of difficult to even speculate as to where
that goes. Uh. And I think, you know broadly again
with Charlie's murder, with his assassination here, I really just

(42:31):
think about like the sick nature that you said, there
was a school shooting, and I don't know, I just
want to come back to like talking and hashing things out.
I know that sounds really trite, but it is. You know,
things can be existential, and we also co existence, if
that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
Yeah, and that's that's what that's what this country has. Yeah, right, exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
We don't really have another choice. And that's what's so
that's what's scary about it. We don't really have another
other than more of what you saw yesterday, of murder
and assassination in cold blood and of kind of you know,
and that you know, again you can hate the guy,
disagree with the guy, whatever. Again, we even had our
own disagreement. Whatever. Fine, you know, I don't have to

(43:16):
throw it clear about it. I liked him. I did.
And to see not just the murder, but kind of
within the context of the broader country and the slide.
It's funny when you read a history book, you see
things that are so obvious. But now if I you know,

(43:36):
put my history hat on eight years, it's not that
long ago. That was twenty seventeen. We had the baseball
shooting right from that point forward of Steve Scalise, you know,
still injured from the attack. It's a miracle that he
even survived, and many of the other individuals. Then we had,
I mean, so an entire summer of insanity. We had BLM,

(44:00):
which was then followed by January sixth, and then was
followed now by I mean, you know, interim school shootings
all up in between insane ideological attacks, synagogues, churches.

Speaker 6 (44:14):
I mean, Joshapiroson, there were the embassy staffers who yes,
Jesus really, the Minnesota legislators.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Paul Pelosi was attacked, you know, and and and we're at.

Speaker 6 (44:26):
A point now where I can't hold them all in
my head, like I'd have to make a list. That's
how many of these you know, ideological assassination or attempted
assassinations we've seen at this point, just in the past,
just even if you narrated the past couple.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Of years, right, that's just eight years, right, And I
can't even go, you know, off off of all of them,
for I'm sure I'm already missing a bunch within them.
And that and then just in the last six months
to see, uh, this kind of explode in this like
like you said, the tinder box kind of nature of everything.
But what it does I think really demonstrate is, like

(45:02):
you said, what the intention? And I don't think we
spent enough time talking about this after nine eleven. That's
part of why I wanted to focus on it after
nine to eleven. We did not spend enough time and
on talking about what did these people want from murdering
three thousand innocent people on nine to eleven. And what

(45:24):
they wanted was what we gave them, the invasion of Iraq,
the destruction of our civil liberties. You know, they said
they hate us for our freedom, and then we took
away our own freedom. Everybody turned inward. Millions of people
abroad ended up killed. We ignited civil wars. You know,

(45:50):
if you we'd never had a serious reckoning with like
why why did the World Trade Center? And it's like
to strike at the heart of American capitalism. They strike
at the heart of American power at the Pentagon, and
they were also going to hit the legislature and the
seat of government and the point or the White House,
and no one's really still sure to this day. But

(46:12):
for what purpose? And the purpose was basically what we
gave them. And I want to sit with that in
the in the wake of the death, to say, like, okay,
like this, what the person wanted was the fear not
only of people public life, but also just the general
chilling effect. But look, we still don't know anything about
the shooter. And that's actually still what's so insane really

(46:35):
about it all, and almost kind of heightens the the
like shocking nature of it, the fact that there's still
not a single detail and it's nine am Eastern time
that we and I are recording, and we don't know anything.

Speaker 6 (46:48):
Right, And I mean, listen, obviously we've been speculating privately.
Unlike others who are extremely irresponsible, We're not going to
just like assume that we know that, including the probable
in the United States, which I'm about to show you,
We're not going to assume we know the ideological motivations,
even you know, as you can certainly spin out any
number of theories. I also wonder if this person is

(47:10):
never caught, like and there will be no end to
the conspiracies about this. But I think it's probably the
right time in the conversation to play the president's response
here because it fits very much soccer with what you're
saying about. You know, we yeah, we responded to nine
to eleven in you know, I don't know, You're probably

(47:33):
right that it is what the terrorists wanted, but it
also just even putting aside their desires. It was disastrous
for us, It was disastrous for the world. It was
certainly disastrous for a rock. It was disastrous for Afghanistan.
You know, the horror and the turmoil of that continues
to this day. And you know the president here threatening
basically to you know, to go to use this, to
to go to war with his ideological enemies, something that

(47:56):
in a lot of ways he was already doing. So,
you know, this is a lot I want to play.
All of this is four minutes. I want to go
ahead and play all of it so that we can
that we can fully react to it.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
To my great fellow Americans, I'm filed.

Speaker 5 (48:09):
Are you guys, Are you hearing it? Or no?

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, I hear it, Okayled.

Speaker 10 (48:13):
With grief and anger at the heinous assassination of Charlie
Kirk on a college campus in Utah, Charlie inspired millions
in tonight, All who knew him and loved him are
united in shock and horror. Charlie was a patriot who
devoted his life to the cause of open debate and

(48:35):
the country that he loved so much.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
In the United States of America.

Speaker 10 (48:39):
He fought for liberty, democracy, justice, and the American people.
He's a water for truth and freedom, and there has
never been anyone who was so respected by youth. Charlie
was also a man of deep, deep faith, and we
take comfort in the knowledge that he is now at
peace with God in Heaven. Our prayers are with his wife, Erica,

(49:04):
the two young beloved children, and his entire family, who
he loved more than anything in the world. We asked
God to watch over them in this terrible hour of
heartache and pain.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
This is a dark moment for Americans.

Speaker 10 (49:22):
Charlie Kirk traveled the nation, joyfully engaging with everyone interested
in good faith debate. His mission was to bring young
people into the political process, which he did better than
anybody ever, to share his love of country, and to
spread the simple words of common sense when campus is nationwide.

(49:45):
He championed his ideas with courage, logic, humor, and grace.
Long past time for all Americans and the media to
confront the fact that violence and murder are the tragic
consequence of demonizing those with whom you disagree, day after day,
year after year, in the most hateful and despicable way possible.

(50:09):
For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful
Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass
murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible
for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
It must stop right now.

Speaker 10 (50:32):
My administration will find each and every one of those
who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence,
including the organizations that fund it and support it, as
well as those who go after our judges, law enforcement officials,
and everyone else who brings order to our country. From

(50:53):
the attack on my life in Butler, Pennsylvania last year,
which killed a husband and father, to the attacks on
ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a healthcare executive
in the streets of New York, to the shooting of
House Majority Leader Steve Scalise and three others. Radical of
political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Too many lives.

Speaker 10 (51:17):
Tonight, they asked all Americans to commit themselves to the
American values for which Charlie Kirk lived and died, the
values of free speech, citizenship, the rule of law, and
the patriotic devotion and love of God. Charlie was the
best of America, and the monster who attacked him was

(51:38):
attacking our whole country. An assassin tried to silence him
with a bullet, but he failed because together we will
ensure that his voice, his message, and his legacy will
live on for countless generations to come. Today, because of
this heinous act, Charlie's voice has become bigger and grander

(51:59):
than ever before, and it's not even close. May God
bless his memory, May God watch over his family, and
may God bless the United States of America.

Speaker 5 (52:11):
Thank you your thoughts soccer.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Yeah, this is the worst of Trump, right, this is
you take a moment where any of I mean, look,
I know people here, some people don't like JD. You
know what he did afterwards, He put out a remembrance
about his interactions with Charlie, and he expressed his condolences

(52:35):
to his wife. And that's just what generally normal people
do from the entire political spectrum. Uh And what's so,
That's what I mean. And to be honest, that encompasses
most of the attitude of the rest. Part of why
I'm really despondent today is that literally, without knowing anything,

(52:59):
and look, it could be. I mean, who's going to
put it out of the realm. Of course, it was
probably a political assassination for some purpose. We have no
idea really still, we don't even have any confirmed information
or anything. That's what I was looking at earlier. But
you know, I actually thought Hanania Richard Hannania said this.
He says, I don't think individual political assassinations have anything

(53:22):
to tell us about our politics. These are stochastic events.
It's a country of three hundred and fifty million people,
widely available firearms. Some of our fellow citizens are insane.
Like in any country, if your public figure, one of
the risks that you face is an unstable individual might
come after you. But what he focuses on and continues
is not only that we don't know the identity or
the motivation of the shooter, but also that, you know,

(53:46):
focusing in on hot political rhetoric. It's I hate to
sound like a leftist or whatever, but it's pretty obvious
that it's it's everywhere with you know, for both sides.
I guess, and I guess I know that's cringe. You
know that a lot of right wingers don't want to
hear it, but it's obviously true, Like the rhetoric is
dialed all the way up, and we could blame everybody.

(54:08):
Oh it's their fault, they started it. It's sort of fine,
we are where we are. And I also will speak
up for free speech. And this is the other thing,
outside of the context of nine to eleven, is part
of the overwhelming and crushing environment of that time actually
prevented people who are sober minded, who are asking questions
and yes, in some cases we're offensive, that's allowed. Okay,

(54:30):
yes you can cancel them and all of that if
you wanted to. But mono like monoculture enforcement and just
immediately kind of reaching for a political agenda is the
absolute worst of nine to eleven. And well that's that's
why it hits me hard today.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (54:53):
Well, and it's so much worse frankly because George W. Bush,
at least right then at the moment, yeah, you know,
tried to calm.

Speaker 5 (55:01):
The you know, later on.

Speaker 6 (55:03):
Yeah, obviously, Like this is no defense of George W. Bush,
But no, you're right, this is an of everybody on
the planet to call out hot political rhetoric.

Speaker 5 (55:13):
Donald J. Trump, are you kidding me?

Speaker 6 (55:15):
Like, do you remember the things that he I mean,
even in this well speech where he's castigating, he's calling
you know, radical left Marxists and all of that. And
this is a man who just used the mugging of
big balls as an excuse to you know, send in
the National Guard to Washington.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
D C.

Speaker 6 (55:33):
So what he his whole thing is to use either
real or imagined or invented crises in order to crush
political opponents, crush dissent, consolidate power.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
It's what he does.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
And so I don't think anyone should be would be
surprised by this speech or the very or the likely
you know, actions he's going to take out of it.
But yeah, this was this was the line from most
people on what I saw coming from the right. I
saw this as war. I saw, you know, we need
to exact vengeance again before even let's say it is

(56:13):
someone on the left. Very possible, right, certainly, there'd be
all kinds of ideological motivations there whatever. To use that
to say that everyone in that political ideology is basically
like a terrorist and a murderer is also just disgusting
and abhorrent. But especially at a time when we don't
even we have no idea who this person was or

(56:34):
what their motivation was. So yeah, I mean he's I
think it was Zajilani on Twitter. He's like, he's an narcissist.
This is all he knows how to do is pour
more gasoline on the flames. That's that is what he
always always does. And you know, I think I've always
been in the camp. I continue to be in the
camp that Trump is a symptom of the underlying problems.

(56:57):
That if it wasn't Trump, you'd have someone else likely
to come and fill the role. I don't know that
they'd have the same level of like power and chrism
and culture personality that he's been able to accrue.

Speaker 5 (57:05):
But you know, he is the He is the.

Speaker 6 (57:10):
Emblem of the like collapsing country in you know, moral
collapse and in free fall that I think we all
have this sense that we're living in where nobody knows
where the bottom is.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
I'm glad that you said that because I was reflecting
on because I was watching TV yesterday and I saw
Bush and Obama pull out their conciliatory statements, and I
think it's really easy to say, wow, that's great. You know,
that's a responsible statement. And I and again and I can't.
I mean again, I don't. I can't stress the audience
enough how formative nine to eleven was for me, like

(57:45):
it's everything, everything is nine to eleven. And then I
started to think, well, how did we get here? You know,
how how did this all happen? And it was the
collapse of institutional trust and the psychotic behavior of the
US government post nine to eleven that destroyed trust in

(58:08):
the individual state, combined with the failure of the post
financial crisis. The I mean, look, we could blame each
other for the culture war and all of that. I
won't even get into that right now, but at the
very least, you know, then that starts to dial up
in the midst of all this angst and foreign war
and abroad, and that leads. And that's why I'm glad

(58:28):
you said it is a symptom, because that is downstream
of how a lot of people think.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
Right, and I mean, in a healthy society does not
elect Donald Trump.

Speaker 5 (58:39):
I don't think a healthy society and certainly not twice,
and they don't.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
It's not even just that, because it's about the erasure
of not even norms, but what those norms were used
to perpetuate under the realm and the administration, the regime
of George W. Bush, of Obama, Biden, Trump went whatever
like this is genuinely is a bipart problem. It was
a cry for help, and it's saying like something is broken,

(59:06):
I'm willing to take a chance whatever we need to
get out of this. And I think that the shooting
is also a symptom of that as well. That's why
I really do feel as if we're living right back
through the nineteen seventies where we had I mean, if
just think about it, we had Nixon, we had riots,

(59:26):
we had the killings of in the late sixties of MLK,
of Malcolm X, we had a bottom fallout of any
hope we were in post Vietnam. We had high inflation,
we had political violence. There was a sense in that
time that we're never going to get out of this.
They're like, this is it. The American Empire has peaked.
We have to step back from where things are now. Luckily,

(59:50):
you know, we did get out of it, although we
didn't get out of it with the unscathed. I wouldn't
say it all went so well out And that's kind
of kind of.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
How I still fallout from that era.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Literally. I mean we were going to before this, we
were going to cover the Charlotte murder, right, And I
was just and it's so funny because we were going
to talk about mental illness and about violence, and about
the de institutionalization moment movement of the late seventies and eighties.
The color of neo libert with the collapse of a
high trust society looks like and explosions of violence and

(01:00:21):
mental illness and murder and public trust and this huge
debates between you and me about how to even solve that.
But you know, coming from the problem itself and recognizing
that is really important. And I'm putting that all together
in that context.

Speaker 6 (01:00:38):
So yeah, I mean, just think of like, and it's
hard to say when you didn't live through the seventies
to you. No, Like, we can read about it, but
I don't really know what it feels like, right, I
don't really know if it feels the same, or if
this feels not as bad crazy, or if it feels
way worse. But my suspicion is that it's like the

(01:00:59):
seventies on algorithms. Yea, you know, the seventies, but on
AI fueled, algorithmic driven because what you mentioned this fel
soo twenty twenty five. I mean in the same way
that like the genocide and Gaza is so twenty twenty five,
Like what is it even doing to us that we

(01:01:19):
see this gore as just like a normal part of
our lives every single day, Like even that, what is
that doing to us? And then all of the incentives
for you know, the influencer ecosystem is to put out
the most inflammatory hot take that you can, Like if
you're if you're that you know that guy who was

(01:01:39):
there at the scene when Charlie Kirk is murdered and
he's like live streaming and I followed me on TikTok,
like you're The whole ecosystem is built up to say
the most irresponsible, inflammatory, like outrageous thing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
That's what's rewarded.

Speaker 6 (01:01:55):
And then you have these structural and and I sort
of feel like those things are also symptoms. It's an
accelerant right of what's already there, because think of what
a powder keg this place is. You've got so like
just flooded with guns. You've got a totally broken healthcare

(01:02:16):
system where millions and millions of people are walking, you know,
people walking around with untreated mental illness who don't even
can't even go to a doctor right, very little like
wildly in sufficient rehab, wildly insufficient mental health facilities. And
then you have this vast inequality where people feel like

(01:02:37):
they're being crushed day after day after day, and that
their hope for you know, stable life, their hope for
their kids, their hopes are just being like ground up
and crushed. Where there's a sense that it doesn't matter
who you vote for, that's not going to change. And
you know, then you layer on top of it this

(01:02:58):
very this really heightened political animus and a president of
the United States who's happened happy to pour fuel on
that fire because he thinks it serves his interest, you know.
And it's just it's that mix that makes you feel
every day like what is going like up is down,

(01:03:19):
left is right, This country is going off the rails,
and you unlike nine to eleven Sager, like nine to
eleven really like launched a new era, right It was
a wake up coase these things were happening in the background.
We didn't really know, we were kind of like blind
to it, but it really did sort of launch us
into a new era. To me, the murder live of

(01:03:42):
Charlie Kirk, that we all witnessed this public execution. It
solidifies in our minds the era we already were in,
that we already had lots of indications and years of
experience with at this point.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
And I do think that's not to say that it does.

Speaker 6 (01:03:58):
It does put new things on the table, right the
I think unfortunately, I think we're likely to see more
attacks on influencers. And by the way, this is also
not the first attack on an influencer. There have been
other influencers who have people show up at their doors
and try to kill them whatever. But I do think
it puts new things on too. But it's also like
a real reckoning moment with oh, this is where we are,

(01:04:21):
Like we already were in this era and this is
just confirmation of where we are at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
That's right. I mean, if you think back to the
nineteen sixties, it's like when RFK, the people who saw
are I'm not comparing them, I'm just looking for analogies.
When r if I was killed, that's after JFK, MLK,
Malcolm X, and then are the people who went through
that That's why they gave up. They were like this

(01:04:47):
is just where we are now. That killed it, that
killed it. It was a huge turning point for the nation.
And yeah, and I guess.

Speaker 6 (01:04:58):
The last thing I'll say on the nine to eleven
comparison is what makes this moment even scarier. And again
just to cover like, we're not saying that, Charlie Kirk,
this one individual being killed is equivalent to you know,
three thousand people being morded on an island. But we're
just trying to think of culturally significant moments. And that
led to a mass crackdown on civil liberties, the fall

(01:05:20):
unders which we still live with, that mass surveillance. The
tech now is so much more advanced, so much more advanced.
Things they could never have dreamed of in two thousand
and one are already being implemented in twenty twenty five.
Like so that's the other thing that makes this such
a frightening moment. Actually record an episode. I don't know

(01:05:40):
if it's going to air now at this point because
it feels very outdated, But of her take with Anna
Casparian and Jelly and Michaels and that whole crew, and
we're talking about there was a dude who went on
Fox News to pitch his like AI you know, minority
report threat detection thing, and that tech is just like

(01:06:01):
widely available now it's there's palenteer.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
The AI race is on.

Speaker 6 (01:06:07):
So things that were just not technically possible, like the
type of sweeps and mass targeting, so not just like
an individual but mass targeting of people for their views
and their political beliefs. That's all technologically available to us
in a way that it wasn't previously. And you know, again,
we have an administration that has used every excuse they

(01:06:29):
can to try to go after their political enemies and adversaries,
whether it's lawyers, whether it's Propalestime protesters, whether it's immigrants,
whether it's colleges like across the board, and so we
can only imagine, I think we can only begin to
wrap our heat around what the fallout from this is
going to be. What the fallout of seeing this kind
of gore in our timelines, with the fallout in terms

(01:06:50):
of a crackdown is going to be, With the fallout
in terms of how influencers are going to conduct themselves,
and what this is going to mean for the world
going forward.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yeah, I think that's well said. All right, guys, do
you have anything else you want to go over, Crystal.

Speaker 6 (01:07:05):
I think that's a but I don't see anything breaking
or new that's that's worth putting out there, you know.
I think as far as we can tell, the search
for the gunman continues, and as far as what's been
put out there publicly, there's very uh, you know, here's
details to go on. But we will say it's very
early still, so we'll be we'll be on it, and guys, Ryan,

(01:07:31):
Emily and I are going to be doing Friday Show tomorrow,
so we'll hear their thoughts. We'll try to cover some
other stories tomorrow as well, because of course there continue
to be important developments happening elsewhere in the world too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Absolutely all right, thank you guys for watching. Rest in peace,
Charlie and condolences to the family. We'll see you guys
later