9/8/25: GHF Spox Vs 'Whistleblower': Amir ALIVE?, Aid 'Massacres', 'Gaza Riviera'

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,
and we are so excited about what that means for
the future of the show.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
This is the only place where you can find honest
perspectives from the left and the right that simply does
not exist anywhere else.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
So if that is something that's important to you, please
go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and
you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,
and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
We need your help to build the future of independent
news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points. A little bit
of a different show today. So first and most obviously,
just me in the studio. Saber is out. However, Ryan
is going to be joining me shortly for a series
of two interviews, and that is the other thing that
is going to be different about the show today. The
entirety of the show is going to be these two interviews. Okay,
so here's the backstory. You guys will recall that we

(00:55):
have now interviewed twice on this show. JHF whistleblower, former
Green Beret Anthony Aguilar. One of the key claims that
he made when he spoke with us and with other
news outlets is that he witnessed while he was working
as a GHF contractor, he witnessed the killing of a
young boy that he had interacted with, a boy who
he called Amir. That claim is now being contested by

(01:19):
GHF through a Fox News digital article and also an
article in the Daily Wire. So in order to discuss
those claims with Anthony, we're going to have him back
on and get his response to that. And before that,
we are also going to talk to a spokesman from GHF,
a guy named Chapin Fay. We're going to ask him
about his claims with regard to Amir, and we have

(01:41):
a whole host of other questions. As you can imagine that,
we want to ask him about GHF and his operations.
We think it's really critical to get a lot of
answers from him, and also we're interested in speaking with
Aguilar again as well. But recall, our taxpayer dollars are
funding these Gaza quote unquote humanitarian Foundations operations, so really

(02:01):
important to understand where does their funding come from. In totality,
some of it comes from us. Where does the rest
of it come from? What are they doing on the ground.
And as we all know because we've covered here, we've
seen news reports and eyewitness testimony, We've talked to doctors
who said the same that over two thousand Palestinians have
been killed in the context of seeking aid, either transiting

(02:23):
to or from GHF's aid distribution sites. In addition, at
the same time, while GHF has been operating in the
Gaza Strip, the Gaza City has descended into famine, as
determined by the IPC, So certainly a lot of questions there,
in addition to getting to the bottom as best we
can as to what actually happened to Amir. Prior to

(02:46):
this conversation, GHF had actually reached out to us and
sent us the Fox News digital story. We were replied
with a series of questions that we had for them
as well, and so in the interest of transparency, before
we get into the interview, I want to go ahead
and share with you all of the questions that we
sent over and their responses because they will be relevant
context for this interview that Ryan and I are about

(03:09):
to conduct. So, guys, if we can go ahead and
put the first slide up on the screen with the
questions that we asked here so you can see that.
We ask them please share the biometric data that you
provided to Fox News so we can verify their reporting
and present it on our show. And guys, this is
with regard to the claims specifically regarding a Mir because

(03:31):
in the Fox News article they claimed that Amir's identity
was confirmed with biometric data.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
We go on.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Specifically, we would like clarification on which biometric process was used,
whether it was photographic, facial recognition or another form of
biometric data collected.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
At GHF sites.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
GHF replied to us, we used biometrics including facial recognition,
comparison of scars on his head, his paperwork, and was
confirmed by multiple people from his family, including motherstep and
other siblings. His mother also provided the actual shirt he
wore that day. We have posted photos online. You are
happy to do your own analysis as other outlets have
done today. Okay, next question that we ask them, as

(04:12):
you arranged an interview with a Boude because they're claiming
Amir's actual nickname is a Bude for Fox News, we
request the same opportunity we would like one of our
reporters to speak with the boy and his mother to
help verify his identity, his previous interactions with Aguilar, and
the details of their journey into your custody. GHF replied,
we have several requests for this. We may do additional

(04:35):
interviews with her, but nothing confirmed at this time. GHF
spokesperson Chape and Fay is available to come on your
show to address this issue as well as the other,
in their words, false accusations that mister Aguilar.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Made on your show.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
In addition, I would suggest visiting the link that includes
video of the press conference we held laying out proof
that mister Aguilar has lied and provided fabricated documents to
the media, as which included his text and signal messages
where he begged for his job back and threaten retaliation
if he was not.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
For those of you.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Who watched our original interview with mister Aguilar, you'll recall
we asked him about these claims from GHF, but we
intend to ask him about them again today to provide
additional clarification and his response to these GHF allocations. Okay,
and as you know, we are going to in fact
have GHF spokesperson Chapin Say on the show to answer

(05:24):
questions with regard to a mirror slash of Bude and
other issues regarding GHF.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Okay, let's see the next question.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
We asked them, Abuilar has made several claims and interviews
regarding the funding and control of GHF. Could you please
provide us with an on the record or background statement
clarifying which specific governments, including but not limited to, the
Israeli and US governments, fund the GHF. This is relevant, guys,
because I don't know how closely you've been following the story,

(05:51):
but GHF has not disclosed fully disclosed their funders. We
know they've received thirty million dollars from the Trump administration.
Outside of that, Chapin Face said on a different show
that they've received funding from Western European nations, but would
not specify where that funding came from. This is a
somewhat unusual situation, so that's why we're asking. Of course,
there's great interest in whether or not they're receiving funding

(06:12):
directly or indirectly from Israel. GHF replied, GHF has not
received any funding from Israel. As most nonprofits, we do
not disclose our donors to protect their privacy unless they
choose to on their own. Let's put the next question
up on the screen, we asked. Ablar also claimed that
US citizens working under GHF are currently operating inside Gaza

(06:33):
on tourist visas granted by the State of Israel. Could
you please provide clarity on this arrangement, GHF replied, not
sure what he's talking about here. All GHF personnel, which
includes security and former un USAID humanitarian aid workers, are
authorized to work. That's an area where I'm hoping to
get clarification today from Chapin because I don't know what

(06:56):
that means authorized to work. I'd like to know more
about the specific of that arrangement, the specific legal statute, etc.
Aguilar told us that they all came in on a
common tourist visa, and of course that has incredible implications
for their legal liability with regard to the actions that
GHF contractors are taking on site every day. And I
believe we have one final question guys that we can

(07:18):
put up on.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
The screen here.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
We asked you, as you have previously granted certain journalists
access to GHF sites, we respectfully request the same for
one of our representatives. This would allow us to independently
verify many of the statements you have made and to
address Aguilar's claims. The backstory here, guys is you know,
of course, we would like to gain access to the
GHF sites so we can evaluate ourselves what is going

(07:41):
on there. They've allowed friendly influencers and Senator Jonie Ernst
to visit and access the sites, along of course, with
Trump administration officials. Several Democratic senators were denied access and
other independent journalists as well. GHF replies, there's been zero
evidence to any of mister Aglar's claims. There's plenty of
evidence that he has lied basically about everything. We are

(08:03):
planning to begin mbads with US, European and other international press,
but there is currently a long list, so not sure
that this is possible in the short term. And I
actually think there is one more question, guys, is in
there that we asked. In a recent interview on our show,
Aguilar alleged that a Palestinian worker at a GHF site
was detained on suspicion of working with Hamas and that
he later witnessed a drone strike in the immediate vicinity.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Can you provide clarity on.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Whether this worker was targeted by the IDF or whether
any such incident occurred. And here we get a blanket
denial from GHF. They say this is one of many
fabrications by mister Aguilar. So that gives you a sense
of our communications with GHF prior to this interview and
some of the backgrounds some of these questions Ryan and
I will get into and continue to press on because

(08:47):
we certainly would like access to the information that they
provided other news outlets to help confirm the identity of
the boy they claim is the same boy that had
an interaction with Agualar. And let's go ahead and put
the Fox News guys a one put this back up
on the screen. Let me just set this interview up
a little bit with some of the detail from this
article so we can all start on the same page.

(09:09):
Here they say, exclusive video reveals Gaza boy said to
be killed by IDF is alive. Veteran told multiple outlets
he witnessed IDF forces killed the boy at humanitarian aid
site in May. So let me read you a little
bit of this article. They say, a young Gazen boy
dubbed Amir, who traveled to a GJEF distribution site and

(09:29):
was reported as having been killed by the IDF. In May,
has been found alive and was hiding out with his
mother in an exclusive interview with the boy's real name
was confirmed by the GHF to be abdul Rahim Mohammad Hamdan.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
But who goes by Aboud.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
The eight year old and his mother answered questions provided
by Fox News Digital through a GHF translator in which
the pair appeared excited ahead of their planned extraction from
the Gaza Strip. Abode in his mother, whose name is Nodlla.
We're safely evacuated from the Gaza Strip on Thursday, so
the location has not been disclosed in this reporting force
or their protection outside the Gaza Strip is nice a

(10:03):
bood set, according to a translation verified by Fox News Digital.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
So those are the.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Claims that GCHF is making and as published by Fox
News Digital. So we'll start there and then we'll get
into a lot of other issues with GHF's spokesperson, Chape
and Fay who joins us now.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
Chape and Fay, welcome, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, of course, So I just set up for the audience,
but I'll just set up for you a little bit
as well as you know, we previously hosted GHF whistleblower
Anthony Aguilar on our show. He made a claim that
he had a series of interactions with a young boy
that he called a mirror who he yet later said
he saw a shot and apparently lifeless outside of a
GHF aid site. You are now claiming in Fox News

(10:46):
Digital has published a report on this that you have
located this boy that Anthony Aguilar claimed to have this
interaction with whose name you say, whose nickname you say
is actually a boode. Can you just go into as
much detail as you possibly can about how located this
this boy and how you identified that you believe this
is the same child from those interactions. And by the way,

(11:08):
we can put the images up on the screen, guys
of the.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
Images that Aguilar took.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
One of the images of the boys is b one
and the boy that you located in the Gaza strum.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
Sure well, thanks for having me to talk about this.
It's we are, you know, very grateful and overjoyed that
we were able to find this young boy that mister
Aguilar has politicized and quite frankly weaponized and turned into
a commodity to use against us in his quest for
fame here. As you mentioned, he called him a mirror,

(11:39):
so right off the bat that was made up by
mister Aguilar. His actual name is Abdul Raheem Mohammad Hamden.
His family calls him a bud And one of the
unique parts of jhf's model is that we innovate. We
do not stridently adhere to things that don't work. We

(12:00):
change and adapt every single day. And one of the
main ways we do that is our humanitarian team, who
are out there every day, have created a relationship with
the aid seekers. Some of the things we're doing now,
like women's distributions and a reservation system, we could only
do because of the trust that we have with the
aid seekers. And in fact, some of the methods that

(12:21):
we use to distributate come directly from the aid seekers.
So in those conversations, you know, they went immediately to work.
Through word of mouth, they were able to go, you know,
interact with the crowd and show pictures of a boot
and they finally located his extended family and then his
immediate family and started interviewing and talking with those folks.

(12:45):
We also use biometrics and the very shirt that he
was wearing in the video and photos, some of which
mister Aguil are circulated, by the way, telling his colleagues
while he was still here how important and good the
mission was. So I you know, you've talked to him,
he can tell you about why he's changed his mind
all of a sudden. But so that's really how we

(13:06):
did it, and we're very grateful and glad, you know,
we we have people who put their lives on the
line to feed people in Gaza. This is one of,
if not the most complex humanitarian crises of our lifetime,
and it's happening during war zone. Just recently, the IDF,
you know, intensified the war by going into Gaza City
and that creates, you know, logistic challenges and safety challenges

(13:28):
every single day to the people who are out there working.
But mister Aguilar, you know, almost everything he has said
has been proven false. He lied about seeing the boys
shot as recently as within the last two weeks. He
lied about the site that he was on. The site
he claimed he was on, hadn't wouldn't even open for
a couple of weeks. He lied about being in the video.

(13:49):
Was another one of our security contractors who actually injured
his hand before he came in country, and you could
see the remnants of the injury. He lied about what
he said and the interaction. Almost everything he has said
about g HF has been a lie and proven false.
There's affidavits on our website from his colleagues who are
still here by the way, risking their lives to protect

(14:10):
the humanitarian team, and our local nationals from Gaza who
are the first instance of interaction with the crowd and
run our sites. So yeah, we are we are very
happy that this little boy is now on his way
to He's in a safe and secure location, on his
way to a new life with his family out of Gaza.
And you know, I think it's sad that mister Aguilar

(14:32):
has a vested interest in a little boy being dead.
He at one point said it would be a blessing
to find this little boy alive. And when we did
find the boy live, he did not express any blessings.
He doubled down on the lies and really continued a
smear campaign. So what kind of man does that. I'll
let your audience determine the answer to that question. That's

(14:53):
for others to debate.

Speaker 6 (14:55):
Yeah, and we'll be talking with him you know, after
you join us is extremely important to get to the
truth of what's going on at these aid sites. Can
you talk a little bit about the biometric data that
you collect among aid seekers that helped you, you know,
locate this boy and also what type of the type
of video surveillance for your own security and for your

(15:15):
own records do you have of the GHF sites?

Speaker 5 (15:20):
Sure, so, our sites are monitored by video twenty four
hours a day. In our operations center, we have you know,
threat analysts and people who monitored every day because of
the Hamas threat. The threat is never zero though where
we are currently operating is behind idea of lines and
so they work. You know, we work with the IDF

(15:41):
only in the sense that to deconflict as they create
humanitarian zones outside our sites, so they're monitored at all times
when there is a threat. We have closed sites in
the past. Currently, as of yesterday, Site four, which is
our most northern site in central Gaza, was closed because
of a threat, so we only had two sites. It's
opened yesterday though we were still able to deliver a

(16:04):
million and a half meals and so the biometrics we use,
uh we actually were very proud of this, this reservation
system we're currently using. You know, one of the you
know I mentioned we innovate and we don't adhere to
you know, strivingly here to things that may not work,
and we're constantly trying to overcome challenges. One of those, right,

(16:25):
was the way our distribution works in a site. Oftentimes
men and faster, younger, fitter men can leave the women
and children behind. So two months ago we started women's
only distributions. And again I'm not here to say that
we are perfect, right, it was uh, you know, the
chaos uh dissipates every single day. One of our early

(16:45):
women's distributions, too many men showed up. Hamas is always
waging a disinformation campaign, called it a day of shame,
told men to show up. So we had to cancel
that particular distribution. Now, if you see it, uh, three
thousand women come on site after we've dispersed the first
half of the distribution and the men leave, They sit down,
they organize themselves and they get handed directly a box

(17:07):
of aid each and every one of them on their
way out of the site. We've been able to build
this trust, this two way trust via our humanitarian team,
which allows us to make ID cards for these women.
They can reserve online so that they know they're guaranteed
to get aid for their family, for them and their families,
so they don't have to run, they don't have to
come during the rush in the beginning. And we only

(17:30):
we are only able to do that because of the
trust we've built up. We do not share any of
this information with anyone outside. It is very securely encrypted.
I'm not a cybersecurity expert, but it's top of the
line and we do not share. We do not share
with the government of Israel. We do not share with
the IDF. It is solely for reservation purposes. And that's
similar to you know, the way we found the boy.

(17:53):
That information is not shared. We do not have a
relationship with the idea or we share information like that.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Tapen that that claim has been disputed by the AP
and we can put B three up on the screen.
They interviewed I believe, two separate GHF contractors anonymously and
they say, according to that contractor, the Israeli Army is
leveraging your distribution system to access information. Both contractors said

(18:18):
that cameras monitor distributions at each site, American analysts and
Israeli soldiers sit in a control room where the footage
is screened in real time. They go on to say
the contractor took the video, said some cameras are equipped
with facial recognition software. In live shots of the site
seen by the AP, some video streams are labeled analytics.
Those were the ones that had facial recognition software. If

(18:38):
a person of interest is seen on camera and their
information is already in the system, their name and age
pops up on the computer screen. Israeli soldiers watching the
screens take notes and cross check the analyst information with
their own drone footage from the sites. Isn't this a
violation of the humanitarian principles of impartiality?

Speaker 5 (18:58):
So we adhered to all fourment and principles, and much
of what was said in there is not true. And again,
these are anonymous sources that you're citing.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
As verified by the AP, who say they have viewed
video that confirmed the out I'm not sure.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
I'm not sure how they would get that video if
they have never been inside the operations center. Right, that
video is not shared, And certainly there are IDF that
work with us on threat assessment, But we do not
share the information. I actually don't believe we have facial
recognition software. That's not what we use it for.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
So what biometrics did you use to identify a Bood?

Speaker 5 (19:38):
Well, so that would be a different case, right, That's
not what we use on a daily basis. We are
not currently using biometrics in any large scale. I mean,
the goal for us is to get to a place
where we can use biometrics to make sure that the
people who reserve aid and come repeatedly to the sites
are the ones that are getting the aid.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
So that you provide us with the biome metrics that
use to identify a Bood and give us access to
his mother and him, so that we could confirm or
an independent, you know, third party if you don't trust
us for whatever reason, I.

Speaker 5 (20:10):
Can certainly make that request. But of course the Daily
Wire and the UH and Fox News have reported the story.
I can certainly make that request. You know, I'm not
the final arbiter of what we can share. We have
not shared, for security reasons, much of our security footage
because you know, again there is not a zero threat
from hamas.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Doesn't that seem that seems like an easy way to though,
to disprove, because of course Aguilar made other claims, not
just about a year about the operations at GHF sites.
So wouldn't releasing to you know, an independent journalist who
is you know, not going to disclose the whole thing
for security purposes. If that's legitimate concern, why not release
a full twenty four hours so people can see how

(20:52):
well and how effectively this is going. If you know
Aguilar is uh is lying in all respects.

Speaker 5 (20:59):
Sure, I'm I mean, it has been proven, and we
have released enough of the information to prove that almost
everything he said is false. You could see it on
our website. I mean, he we have video timestamp videos
there that prove that the videos he's using to bolster
his claims are one not of what he says. They
are too, not the same day, not the same thing. Right,

(21:19):
he is talking about IDF fire and blaming GHF for
that fire. I mean, I you know, as he points out,
I don't have a military background, but I've been there.
I could tell you after one day that IDF machine
gun fire from a tank sounds a lot different than
what the guns our security personnel carry, who, by the way,
have never shot at anyone. Ever. There have been no

(21:39):
deaths on our sites except for a stampede that we
believe was fomented by Hamas. But we have never shot
and anyone. And in fact, just you know, our security
personnel are not hired because they know how to pull
a trigger. They're hired because they know how not to
pull a trigger. Right, They are highly skilled, highly intelligent.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Let me just challenge you on a couple pieces there.
I will get Ryan as well because dropsite has done
some reporting on the crowd crush incident that you're talking about,
so we can put C five up on the screen.
This is again from an AP report. They spoke with
GHF contractors who said their colleagues regularly loves dune grenades
and pepper spray in the direction of Palestinians. One contractor

(22:21):
said bullets were fired in all directions in the air
into the ground, at times toward the Palestinians were calling
at least one instance where he thought someone had been hit.
And these allegations, as given to the AP, were backed
up and corroborated by this video, in which you can
hear American accented GHF contractors. You can hear nearby bullets

(22:44):
and them celebrating saying I think he got one of them,
and someone saying, hell yeah, boy, this is C six
control room.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
If we could please play this.

Speaker 7 (22:52):
Armed American security contractors at one of the sites discussed
how to disperse Palestinians.

Speaker 5 (22:56):
Nearby there aggressive.

Speaker 7 (23:06):
At that moment, bursts of gunfire are ruped close by
at least fifteen shots. The camera's view is obscured by
a large dirt mount. The contractor who took the video

(23:27):
told ap that he saw other contractors shooting in the
direction of Palestinians who had just collected their food and
were departing.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
So Chapin, does this not corroborate the allegation that GHF
contractors are using live ammunition on or near the sites.

Speaker 5 (23:41):
So it's just the fact that they never have and
you can see in them, but you can see all
of the American contractors. There are no American contractors outside
that site. So any fire that you hear is from
the IDF, who, by the way, does use live fire
for crowd control purposes, which we have pushed them often
to be safer and more securely. American military does not train.

(24:02):
It's uh, it's it's a personnel to use lethal force
for crowd control. It's not last on a list of tactics.
It's just not on the tactics. So our our men
and women who are security personnel or men, they do
not use live fire for crowd control purposes.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
Right that Hell, yeah, boy, that was an IDF soldier.

Speaker 5 (24:22):
I don't know. I wasn't there, but you can see
clearly from the site that the you know, the guys
who are casually walking around, those are our security personnel
and they're looking outside the site. And if that's the
site that I think it is, the AID seekers are
actually more than a kilometer away waiting to come in.
It is a long road in and there is no

(24:42):
IDF on that particular road. What the IDEF does is
let thousands of godsms behind their lines into our sites,
which again is unique for an army. I don't know
that the US military would ever do that, but no,
we have never fired anyone.

Speaker 6 (24:57):
Just to pick up on Crystal's point, the Gods and
Ministry of Health Night reports at fourteen more Palestinians were
killed at AID sites and eighty five were injured. We're
still getting details about this latest mascer, but to her
point about the video surveillance. You said you have twenty
four hour video monitoring of this seems like the easiest
way to clear this up would just be to release

(25:19):
the tapes to the media or to a neutral third party.
If it's not the contractors and it's the IDF that's
doing the shooting, that will be apparent in the videos,
like are the videos being stored and is there an
inspector general? Is there an international body, is there a
national body? Is there a neutral news organization that you
feel that you could release this too, because every single

(25:41):
day there are new reports about maskers at AID sites
almost and the way to dispel it would be to
release these tapes.

Speaker 5 (25:49):
All right, So again it's a little bit more complicated
than that. This is an ongoing war and there is
a mass threat. Our people have been docksed.

Speaker 6 (25:56):
Right, you're behind IDF lines, you said you're behind them.

Speaker 5 (26:00):
If lines, yes, that doesn't mean the threat is zero, right,
there was a The IDEF had to take out a threat.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
And understand how that relates to releasing videos to a
neutral journalist or an independent third party.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
Because HAMAS is studying what we do, they are often
on our site taking pictures of people and processes and
learning so that they can presumably create the ley.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
We're not talking about releasing it to months. We're talking
about releasing it to an independent journalist or third party
so that they can verify well.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
I would just say that it's again, it's more complicated
than that. We have people's on our team's addresses and
full names being printed in legitimate media outlets for no
other reason. There's no journalistic reason to print people's addresses
and where people are staying in Israel, which has happened.
We had a humanitarian guy, a man who has spent
his entire life working for USAID, mostly in the Middle

(26:54):
East and Africa, helping people and doing humanitarian AID work,
did a press briefing to describe what our humanitarian efforts
were like uh, and immediately his name was printed. Reporters
were calling his language teachers to find out information about him,
not for journalistic reasons, but to print where he's staying
in Israel, and he now is being protested in His

(27:15):
safety and security are in jeopardy. That's happening to our
leadership in America, to Diaga, They're trying to do people
right now. He's giving out operations.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
No independent journalists that you trust to review this footage.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
They're all with the moss.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
It's well you yourself. Your colleague just cited the gods
of Ministry of Health, that is a HAMAS agency. They
do not distinguish between combatants and civilians, and we just
learned they do.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Not who view those death statistics actually believe that they're
an undercount if you don't trust their statistics. However, we
could take a listen to what the UK head of
MSAF or Doctors Without Borders has to say about what
their doctors in the field are being around your aid distributions.

(28:02):
And Ryan and I have both individually spoken with doctors
American doctors who have gone into gaz and come out
and say that every time there is an AID distribution
at one of your sites, they end up with a
mass casualty event at the hospital.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
So guys, this is B five. If we could go ahead.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
And play for chapin what the head of the Doctors
Without Borders UK has to say about how this aid
distribution is going.

Speaker 8 (28:29):
Your conclusion very clearly reading it is that it's been disastrous.

Speaker 9 (28:33):
Absolutely, and I think it's been disastrous by design. So
our report just covers two health centers, so two primary
care centers are not designed to deal with trauma cases really,
particularly down in the south of the Gaza Strip in Rafa,
and over the last seven weeks, so it only covers
a period of seven weeks. It only covers two of

(28:56):
the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation sites, but those two all health
centers have received one thousand, three hundred and eighty cases
of people who are casualties at the Gaza Humanitarian.

Speaker 5 (29:09):
Clinics, just those two clinics.

Speaker 9 (29:11):
So we know it's a drop in the ocean, because
we know that many other people are not coming to
the clinics, they're going to other hospitals or other locations.
But in our two clinics, one thousand, three hundred and
eighty casualties, of which one hundred and seventy four had
been shot, and that included also twenty eight dead bodies,
so that's a huge number of people and many children
amongst them. So about twenty percent of the cases with children,

(29:32):
including twenty percent of the people who've been shot.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
We had cases such as.

Speaker 9 (29:37):
You know, an eight year old shot through the chest
and a twelve year old shot through the stomach, and
they all you know, the casualties all described the sort
of same scenario of becoming of going to seek food,
of starving going to seek food. That's the only place
now in Gaza where you can try and access food.
You essentially have no choice. You either stay home and

(29:59):
starve to death, you go to one of these sites
to try and access some food, and they were then
either shot or they were injured in the chaos and
the stampedes that happen around those sites.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
So Javan, let's say we take your word for it
that none of these deaths are happening on the sites.
They're all done by the IDF, either when people are
transitting to or from the sites. As a humanitarian organization,
you're not just responsible for distributing aid, but also for
helping to ensure the logistics and safety of people who
are trying to receive that aid. So don't you bear

(30:31):
some responsibility for the recurring near daily aid massacres that
are being reported on in the press, that Palestinians are
attesting to and that doctors are attesting to as well.

Speaker 5 (30:41):
Well, I'm glad you brought that up. I'll address the
first false things she said, which was the last thing
she said that we are the only aid organization operating.
That is one hundred percent false. The United Nations is operating,
is trying to move aid into got further into Gaza,
and they are unable to do it right. They moved

(31:01):
in the month of August. They had almost they had
around I think eleven hundred trucks that they brought across
the border into Gaza, and ninety three point five percent
of them were diverted by presumably Hamas or others. You
could also see online all over social media. I just
have to correct you your own website.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
I just have to correct you on one thing there.
You know, The New York Times reported that, according to
Israeli military officials, so not AMAS is rarely military officials,
there is zero evidence of systematic looting of aid. Now,
what I will grant you is happening is that you
have mass starvation in the Gaza strip, including since your

(31:40):
organization began operating, which seems like an indictment of the
efficacy of what you're doing there. But you do have
a lot of desperate people who are at times climbing
on trucks and trying to take the aid out of
sheer starvation and desperation, There's no.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
Doubt about that.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
The solution to that is allowing vastly more aid in
and having type of system that the UE was previously running,
where they had some four hundred distribution sites versus the
four that your organization runs.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
Right, But if the United Nations wanted to have open
four hundred distribution sites right now, they could chapin.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
They are they are borders to Gaza. Who controls the
borders to Gaza?

Speaker 5 (32:19):
Where where are these trucks going?

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Control the BORDERSA? Is it the UN who controls.

Speaker 5 (32:26):
We're talking about inside Gaza? What does the border have
to do with that? We're talking about.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
Trucks into Gaza? Is it the UN?

Speaker 5 (32:33):
No, it's the UN. Did not deliver, did not bring
in eleven hundred trucks of the month of August. That's
what you're telling me.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
You're telling me they're run telling you that the trus
What I'm saying, what I'm asserting, which is what has
been reported not just by the UN but by any
number of media outlets by United States senators who have
visited the region, that the amount of aid that enters
the Gaza Strip is a direct function of what the
Israelis decide are going to go in, and we've had

(33:01):
announcements from the Israelis in the past where they were
going to block effectively all LAID from coming in. And
your organization has been set up effectively as a replacements
previously existing through UN distrust true system.

Speaker 5 (33:14):
The UN is currently trying to distribute aid, moving hundreds
of trucks across the border a day. They just have
a problem with being able to do it. That's just
one hundred percent what you said is not true. The
United Nations is operating as we are. We were never
meant to replace the UN. We agree, I will one

(33:35):
hundred percent agree with you right now. Four sites is
not enough. We were meant to have eight sites. We
were meant to be one small part of a much broader,
more complex solution to one of the most complex humanitarian
crisis on planet Earth. And if the United Nations, which
we have an open offer to collaborate with, would collaborate
with us, imagine how many more people we can Let me.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Give you, let me give you, let me give you
some specific I'll get Ryan in here.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
So this is d nine guys.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Just to make it really clear, the dynamics because it
is true Israel is allowing some trucks from the UN
in at this point between the six and twelfth of August,
so this is roughly a month ago. Humanitarians made eighty
one attempts to coordinate plan movements with Israeli authorities, including
transfer fuel and personnel. Of this number, thirty five were facilitated,
twenty nine initially approved, then impeded on the ground, twelve

(34:26):
were denied, and five had to be withdrawn by the organizers.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
So that's the reality of.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
What the UN is dealing with here, and that's why
I say the number of trucks ortal are allowed to
come in directly relate to what the Israelis decide they
want to allow. Let me go ahead and get Ryan
in here, because I've been sort of dominating.

Speaker 6 (34:47):
Sorry, well no, just to add context with what Crystal's
saying there, and you know the history there. On March second,
the Israeli government blocked all humanitarian and medical aid food
and medicine into Gaza. That lasted for almost two months.
Israel argued that the reason that they did that was
that at these four hundred distribution sites, Hamas was getting

(35:09):
access to the food and that was a problem for
the Israeli war effort is the problem for the Palestinian
civilians inside Gaza. So they said, we're going to redesign it.
So we're going to have only four aid sites that
are many kilometers away from population centers, and they're going
to be behind IDF lines so that Hamas cannot steal

(35:30):
the aid. And so then they reopened aid through these
four systems. So are you saying that your understanding from
the Israeli government is that if the UN and other
humanitarian aid organizations wanted to open up four hundred aid
sites tomorrow and get an influx of trucks in, that
they would be able to do that, and that Israel

(35:51):
is not standing away because famine was declared on August
twenty second. Since then, there's been an average of eleven
trucks a day allowed into Gaza that since the famine
was declared. And so are you saying that what you
have heard from Israeli authorities is that they would allow
unimpeded aid and they would allow the humanitarian aid groups

(36:12):
to open those four hundred sites.

Speaker 5 (36:13):
Again, what I'm telling you is the month of August,
the UN moved a whole eleven hundred trucks into Gaza,
That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 6 (36:22):
And because the UN didn't want to deliver the trucks
are because Israel was blocking the trucks from entering and
closing the distribution sites because they said Hamas was controlling
these distribution sites.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
The United Nations distributed and moved eleven hundred trucks. I
believe that's the number. I could be wrong exactly the number.
It's over a thousand trucks in the month of August
went to the border into Gaza.

Speaker 6 (36:47):
Oh are you saying that's a You're saying that's a.

Speaker 5 (36:51):
Website.

Speaker 6 (36:52):
You can say there's thirty one days in August, six
hundred the minimum of six hundred trucks a day is needed,
saying that they did less than two days worth of
what's needed.

Speaker 5 (37:03):
It is a good thing that trucks are moving in.
It is a good thing that the air drops are happening.
We are concerned with the safety and security of it,
but we believe more AID is the answer to many
of the problems that we're talking about. When you mentioned
the blockade of AID, when we were approved to go in,
we were approved for eight sites. The IDF only built

(37:25):
US four so we are beholden to when and where
because they're waging war. We pushed them every single day,
including back then. We fought publicly and you could see
it publicly. We fought for the United Nations to also
be allowed in over to A letter was sent in
August by over two hundred international NGOs from over fifteen

(37:46):
countries urging people to work with us. Right, this is
a complex problem. We would love to work with the
United Nations. We've had none of our aid diverted. By
their own metrics, they had ninety three point five percent
of the trucks, which again we is not enough.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Why is it that on July ninth, GHF posted to
Twitter Hamas wants GHF out of Gaza and the UN
back in so it can once again control the food supply.
That certainly doesn't seem like a statement, you know, full
support for UN aid distribution.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
Here, sure, so we support the UN distributing aid, we
do not support Hamas taking it. I mean, I think
that's pretty clear. Our mission is to feed the people
of Gaza in a way that Hamas can't steal it.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Do you have evidence that the Israeli military doesn't have
that Hamas has been stealing aid because Israeli military officials
say that's not happening.

Speaker 5 (38:33):
You could you could see it online. I could show
it to you, the armed men driving trucks around Gaza
city prior to this recent IDF offensive. I mean, you
can see it on social media. Will send it to
you for sure, Chapin. It doesn't matter whether it's Hamas
or anyone else.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
But right, I want to go back to the origin
of this question, which was about the two thousand plus
aid seekers who have been killed in the context of
seeking aid at your sites, the testimony from doctors.

Speaker 5 (38:58):
Do you keep saying at yours that is false?

Speaker 4 (39:02):
So you don't accept you don't accept that that's.

Speaker 6 (39:04):
Out right outside your sites?

Speaker 5 (39:07):
Well again, right, I don't know why you're trying so
hard to Well, my question is.

Speaker 10 (39:12):
The United Nations has had a a couple hundred percent
uptaking casualties at their trucks and convoys recently.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
Have you been in terrygoating those numbers as much as
you're interrogating ours.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Taban, We have actually a war zone.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
We we have covered those aspects as well, but we've
spoken with doctors directly. We heard the testimony from the
head of Doctors with Down Borders UK.

Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yes, I'm happy to respond to that.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Bryan's news out has spoken directly to Palestinian eye witnesses
and in every instance they say that nearly daily there
are aid massacres when people are going to transitting to
and from your sites. Now, let's say you're correct and
that if we could see all the security footage, you
would be vindicated that your contract have nothing to do

(40:00):
with that. Do you bear any responsibility for those killings
that are happening when aid seekers are transitting to and
from your sites or do you just think you have
nothing to do with that. The IDF is going to
do what they have to do and it's not your business.

Speaker 5 (40:15):
As I said, we pushed the IDF to deconflict and
to make it safe across Gaza and expanding monitary zones
every single day. We are not affiliated with the government
of Israel and we are not affiliated with the IDF
that we work with them of course on safety. And
I'm glad you brought me back to Nasair Hospital and
Doctors Without Borders where they operate and the numbers that
come out of there. Our model is unique. We use

(40:39):
local gossins As who run the sites. They're the ones
who interact with the crowd and download the aid and
hand it out and all of that. They currently live
on site twenty four hours a day and cover their
faces because a few months ago they used to take
a bus to work and Hamas hijacked the bus, shot
nine people and murdered them on video. The remaining survivors

(41:02):
of that massacre, around twenty of them, were brought to
Nasa Hospital where Doctors Without Borders operates, and they were
refused treatment and they were left to die in the
court arch, in the courtyard, in the parking lot.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
That's because of their affiliation with that's an extraordinary claimed.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
You have evidence for that.

Speaker 5 (41:17):
Sure, it's been reporter of the media, not widely because
it doesn't fit a neat narrative. Doctors About Borders also
has an agenda. There's been recent reporting about them running
ads against us. And again NASA Hospital, who you can
see recent reporting and hostage testimony that there were hostages
at the Nazara Hospital. You know, the ID have to
you know, just had an offensive against it. So again

(41:40):
the Gossam Ministry of Health is Hamas one of the
combatants and which has no moral equivalency with the with
with Israel and the IDF, which is a you know,
a professional military. The IDF doesn't confirm many of those casualties.
And I would I would extress, but.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
You don't believe that this is happening. You just reject doctors, witnesses.
I'm not organization journalists.

Speaker 5 (42:07):
I'm not saying there are no casualties. I wonder why
you're trying so hard to tag a group that is
tasked solely with feeding people, uh, in some sort of agenda.
I don't know why you're trying. It's hard to make that.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
To be feeding people, you're not doing very well since
there's there's a famine there.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
You've delivered one hundred and fifty million meals and have
had no food diverted. We've delivered almost one hundred and
sixty sorry a hundred and sixty million time.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Of your operation.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
That IBC has declared a famine and children are starving
to death. So I would say that again, that's of
your actions.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
The debate over famine is for others to determine. I
mean the unit. It's been reported that the United Nations
changed its standards to create a file to create that.
That's fine. That's again that's for someone else to debate.
Where we operate in the south, and I will grant
you that the need is more acute in the north,
where we do not operate. Where we operate in the South,
we have put one hundred and sixty million meals directly
into the hands of the Palace city and people. We

(42:56):
have three thousand women who come to our sites. You
can ask them about the safety and about hamas thread
and all of that stuff. Why would they come to
our states?

Speaker 2 (43:07):
We have we have spoken with Palestinians about their experience,
which is what we're trying to relate to you. And
Ryan has done extraordinary reporting in this regard.

Speaker 6 (43:15):
Well, Champion. Yeah, we've reached out when we heard this
claim that they allowed people to die in the courtyard
of Nots Hospital, reach out to MSF, who reached out
to Nazer Hospital. The doctors there at both organizations say
have no idea what you're talking about. They've no evidence
of this at all. If if you can put us
in touch with any family members of those who died

(43:38):
in the courtyard outside of Naz Hospital, we will absolutely
report that. Can you commit to attempting to try to
find some family members of those who died outside the
the hospital comment because they say that they're absolutely unsure. Okay,
I also want to ask you one of the things
you get criticized as an.

Speaker 5 (43:56):
Active tour zone. And again, I'm not here to say
that you HF is perfect. I'm not here to say
there are no casualties in this war. Every casualty is regrettable.
And again, we pushed the idea up every single day. Right,
we don't shoot a people. We have never shot of people.
The only times they have ever shot their weapons was
into the air the day of the stampede, so a
former US Marine could run into the stampede and save

(44:17):
a child's life. That same day, a gun was pulled
on him in the crowd. He didn't same man, didn't
raise his weapon, didn't fire it, ran at the man,
tackled him and took the pistol away. And you're trying
to tell me these people are out being maniacs. It's
just not true. These are honorable men doing honorable work.
This is a mission that they enjoy because for once
they're not asked to shoot a people. They're being asked

(44:39):
to help protect people whose only mission in life is
to feed the people of Gaza, which we've done to
the tune of one hundred and sixty million meals.

Speaker 6 (44:47):
You said a moment ago that there's no connection, no
relationship with the Israeli government. We could put up D
one here. This is Besil Smotrich saying that Israel is
allocating funds for Kaza Humanitarian Foundation. And earlier you said
that in these that the IDF helps you with threat

(45:07):
assessment and that you have you have you have rooms
where you have monitors up where you're where you're checking
to see if there are ongoing threats at the site.
So the so the I, So are you saying that
the IDF is in those monitoring rooms with you, where
you're collecting the data.

Speaker 5 (45:27):
So when I say helping with threat assessment, the IDF
is doing constant threat assessment in this war, and they
let us know if there is a threat that we
haven't determined. Right. One of our sites was closed yesterday
because of a thread up North Hamas comes. They pay
people to dig tunnels, there's a you know, it's structurally

(45:48):
difficult logistically because there's a bridge that people hide under.
So that's what I mean, so the IDP is constantly
doing threat assessment. You don't have to ask them, you know,
what kind of technology and how they do that. I
don't have any particularly inside into that, but we do,
excuse me, we do coordinate with them and you know,
work together on whether the site is safe. Right. If

(46:08):
the site is not safe, we do not open right.
And you'll notice if you get our daily updates, we
have four sites. One is being rebuilt currently, so we
have three sites that are operational. For example, yesterday only
two were open because again the one in central Gaza
there was you know, some sort of identified threat that I,
you know, am not privy to UH, and we didn't
open that site. So that's what I mean by by

(46:30):
by you know, working with the IDF on threats and
and on your the motriche reporting. I have read the
reporting too. We have not received any money. I have
seen him talk about the Humanitarian a Fund, right, which
may not be us I don't I don't really know,
but we do not take any money from the government
of Israel, and we likely would not UH if offered.

(46:50):
But as of today, there there has been no money
UH and no funding from the government Israel. Are are
really our only relationship with the government Israel is that
we are approved to operate and certainly you know through
the IDF on deconfliction.

Speaker 6 (47:04):
And one of the other things that you get criticized
for is the content of the packages that you give out,
you know, pasta and some other you know, starch and
other basics. According to you can manage an aid worker
I spoke with yesterday, there are roughly three hundred thousand
children five and under currently facing acute malnutrition, either severe

(47:25):
or moderate. They need a very particular type of response.
It's also often you know this particular or nutritional peanut
butter packages that go into some aid organizations bring in
What are you doing for those three hundred thousand children
five and under who are facing malnutrition, who probably can't

(47:46):
you know, get through the desert to these sites and
then learn as you just said, like I'm sure thousands
of people showed up to the site that was closed
last night, and the IDF usually uses then live gunfire
to to disperse the crowd who thought it was going
to be open but then found it wasn't. So how
did that children five and under? What are you doing
for them? And are you working on bringing in something

(48:08):
other than the pasta and the lentils, and and what's
what you're criticized for at the beginning.

Speaker 5 (48:14):
Yeah, happy to answer that. But on the piece about
when we're closed, I don't know that that's true. I
certainly can't confirm that there was no crowd. But we
communicate via you know, many a sort of a holistic way. Uh,
And we have a flag system, right, it's red when
it's closed and it's green when it's open. We do
social media. A lot of them have devices, So I

(48:35):
don't know that that's true that that you know that
they didn't know we were closed.

Speaker 6 (48:38):
And by the way, the flags quickly how long on
average I've heard they are open for about eight minutes.
What's what's your sense of how long the site is open? Green?

Speaker 5 (48:48):
I've been there, so the first part of the distribution
can be quick, longer than eight minutes, but certainly in
half an hour. So our model is a little different, right.
We we have these sites, these secure sites. Aid convoys
come U. The local workers use fork LFTs, download the
aid that convoy leaves, and then a mobile team comms

(49:08):
that includes the Mediterraneans and they open the site. Now
with the women's distributions. That takes a long time, uh,
to to physically put a bag when we have them,
because it's easier for them to carry our box directly
into their hands. It takes it can take up to
four or five hours. But yes, we open for a
discrete time period, uh, and then we close. And again
I'm not here to tell you that we're perfect. Right.

(49:29):
One of the challenges, the reason we do women's distributions
women and children at the end is because you know,
the aid was going too quickly and it was going
to younger, fitter men uh for a little while, right,
and we were trying to solve for that challenge. On
on the children's nutrition, we actually have some Meridians purse
now on our sites for probably about a month now

(49:51):
they are distributing medical aid. We had military, you know,
former military medics and doctors performing those duties. We now
have some Aridans purse, which is a ingo that does
that and that's their specialty.

Speaker 6 (50:04):
They also donated what you're talking go ahead, yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
They donated ready to use supplemental food our USF. I
think the nickname Ford is plumping out exactly what you described.
It's like a peanut buttery substance, and one of the requirements,
you know, they came to the sites to make sure
you know, it was something that could work for them
on the medical aid and on the r USF, because
you can't just from what I'm told, you can't just
like surge the population with that particular item because if

(50:31):
you eat too much of it when you're hungry, right
or starving, it can have negative health consequences. So one
of their requirements is was that it be handed out
individually to people or individually put in the boxes. So
during the women's distribution, we hand them out. I apologize
I'm blanking on the number, but it's it's certainly in
the tens of thousands. It might be in six figures
by now, it's been about a month. We also work

(50:52):
with many of the women who are mothers so that
they can be vetted and then we can give them
a box of it right of just that so they
can distribute it their family and friends in community. So
we are we are doing that. Again, we have to
pretend there's only one way uh to feed or distribute
aid to the people of Gaza, right we are, we
are doing one small part here uh, and that's one
of our innovations that that seem to have been working

(51:15):
Samaras Purse, you know, so they're you know, one of
the things I find fascinating is you know they see children, right,
they bring from the from the distribution side to the
umanitarian side and our sites, they bring past the security personnel.
They bring children in, you know, if they're scraped or
cut or many of them are are barefoot. One of
our humanitarians actually uh started a you know, a fund

(51:35):
to provide shoes for some of the people that don't
have them. But often they're like bloody feet kind of injuries.
And now some marriage Purse is doing that. But they
do follow ups, right, if a kid was stitch up
two weeks prior, they'll they'll bring him into the site
and stitch them up again or sorry, do the follow up.
So we're we're glad that you know, Smarte Purse is
able to do that in a professional way. We're talking
with them about building wells on our sites as well,

(51:58):
so we can have an ongoing supply of order to
distribute as well. So those are the kind of innovations
that JHF is looking into doing.

Speaker 6 (52:04):
So they're almost it and hopefully over one hundred thousand
of these distributions as I mentioned though.

Speaker 5 (52:10):
Yeah, I just I don't have that statistic.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
Get my let's even say it's two hundred thousand at
this point. Yeah, you know there's three hundred thousand kids
needing three meals a day. That's you know, it's close
to a million. There is the day just for the
children five and under who are facing mountain nutrition. Like
at this moment, it seems like they and I think
you would probably agree, like you said, it can't just
be the fore sights. You know, there should be a

(52:32):
flood of aid going into Gaza. Then what then where
is the like.

Speaker 5 (52:37):
The sol solve the problem?

Speaker 6 (52:41):
Flood aight in? So you would agree, just flood the
aid in definitely and everybody else.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
Yes. When the UN started moving trucks again before this offensive, uh,
the pressure started coming down in our area as well, right,
and and technically with our sites in the from central
to south, we're we're within we think a million of
the population, right, it's a two million, you know, it's
over two millions, So it's not enough. We totally agree,
but we see, right, we put out a couple hundred

(53:08):
pounds of flour a day and it has a immediate
impact on the local market. Right. So the more aid
that's out there, even if it's being sold, as long
as it's not price gouging or being hoarded by you know,
I hate to blame Hamas for everything, but gangs or whatever.
As long as it's getting out there, it makes everything safer. Right.
The only reason we can do some of these things,
like the women's distribution, which are actually very calm, uh

(53:29):
and and orderly. The only reason we could do that
is because some of the pressure in the areas we
are serving is coming down. We actually do not Again,
I'm not going to debate whether there's famine or not,
but where we operate, we see a lot of people
coming often. I go a couple of times a week,
and even I see repeat faces and have relationships with
some of the women and children who we see every day.
So the people who are there are coming often, and

(53:51):
we are seeing people get healthier, We're seeing to become calmer.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
A few more things we want to we want to
get from you, first of all, just because it's such
a crucial issue. I know you don't trust the Gaza
Health Ministry because you say they're hamas run or going
to say. You don't trust NASA hospital, you don't trust
doctors without borders, you don't trust the doctors we've spoken with.
Maybe you trust the IDF because soldiers. IDF soldiers spoke
with Harads we could a D eight up on the

(54:16):
screen and discussed described the transit to and from your
sites as quote a killing field. The headline here is
IDF soldiers order to shoot deliberately at unarmed gosens waiting
for humanitarian aid. Where I was stationed, between one and
five people were killed every day. They're treated like a
hostile force. No crowd control measures, no tear gas, just

(54:37):
live fire with everything imaginable, heavy machine guns, grenade launchers, mortars.
Then once the center opens, the shooting stops and they
know they can approach. Our form of communication is gun fire.
So I ask you once again, does GHF bear any
responsibility for the mass killings that doctors, Palestinians, journalists and

(55:02):
IDF soldiers are attesting to happen outside of your sites
when aid seekers are going to and from your distributions.

Speaker 5 (55:11):
Well, I hate to be a one trick pony first,
but Heretz is one of the outlets that publishes where
people are staying for no other reason they do.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
So you deny the veracity of idea soldiers, I said.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
To what they experienced.

Speaker 5 (55:23):
While I'm happy to answer your question, like I said,
we push every day for the IDF to deconflict and
to do things in a safer and more secure man.

Speaker 4 (55:31):
Right, Well, let's say.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
My question, do you bear any responsibility you're not answering
your question. Let's say you accept this report and you
don't think any responsibility for the casualties, responsibility for any
of the massacres that are happening routinely as people attempt
to access the AID at your site, which is why
many Palestinians call them and the Financial Times and other

(55:55):
outlets a quote unquote death trap.

Speaker 5 (55:58):
So the ten thousand Palasidians who come every day to
our sites, more than ten thousand, it's ten thousand and
one site, Uh disagree? They don't.

Speaker 6 (56:06):
They don't want that. It's either star they don't want
to starve to die.

Speaker 5 (56:10):
So, first of all, I'm not going to comment on
numbers that come from one of the combatants, which is
run by a terrorist organization. I'm not here to say
there are no cases. What you're telling me, are you
calling no no, no, no, no no the Gaza Ministry
of Health right.

Speaker 6 (56:28):
And certainly run by the Palestinian authority by the.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
Way, great, I mean you know these numbers are are
hard to verify. No, I understand, these numbers are hard
to verify. And it's a war zone. And what you're
telling me is we are problematic because there are casualties
happening outside our sites. Is the un.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Problem as a routine process, that's what is being attested
to have soldiers chapin field right, No to your guests,
just live fire with everything imaginable, heavy machine guns, grenade launchers, mortars,
that's what's happening.

Speaker 4 (57:05):
I mean, and we can play you.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Endless amount of videos. I don't know what this sounds
like and looks.

Speaker 5 (57:11):
Like, but right, but if if they're launching grenades at
a crowd, we would be well over the casualties you're
trying to tag the GHF with. I mean, so some
of these statistics right over three months and again I.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
As well, it may well be an undercount. You're right,
tape and it might be an undercount.

Speaker 5 (57:30):
It may And did you tell the United Nations they
should stop operating because there are casualties on the way
to their convoys or when their truck runs over an
aid seeker.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
That is your dodge question. Media, So is your is
your answer effectively.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
You've had no Let me encapsulate your response is no,
we bear no responsibility. What happens outside of our sites
is none of our business. And if IDF is massacring age,
who are transferring the desert? Are?

Speaker 5 (58:00):
You may not like my answer, but those are the
words that I use. I mean those are answering question.
Actually respond that there are casualties. I'm not a casualties in.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
This You're going to have a responsibility.

Speaker 5 (58:13):
We have killed no one, No one has died on
our side.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
Any responsibility.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
It's a ridiculous question.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
It's not so answer it then if it's so.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Ridiculous, I mean, does the UN bear responsibility?

Speaker 4 (58:27):
Your own bear?

Speaker 5 (58:28):
Have you asked the u N have you asked.

Speaker 4 (58:33):
The question that is being put to you right now?

Speaker 5 (58:37):
Let's put answer your question.

Speaker 6 (58:38):
Okay, let's put four zone this is.

Speaker 5 (58:41):
This is a dangerous operation.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
So the answer is no responsibility.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
Casualties in this war and if they are civilians, that
is tragic, and we pushed the idea. But by the way,
our job is to feed people, period and when any organization,
including the IDEA in the government of Israel, make that
more difficult, we call them out publicly and voriciously. You
can see on our website. You can see it in
our past statements. We wish the idea today, Well, let's

(59:09):
let's just joint the idea and I don't dictate war
tactics to the idea.

Speaker 6 (59:12):
Well you're gonna have let's jointly, let's jointly condemn one here,
control loom. Let's put up before there's dozens of these,
but let's put up before.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
The manager.

Speaker 6 (59:45):
Hello, so as you can. I don't know if what
you were able to hear the relentless gunfire, uh, the
to solve this, it would be simple, you said, you
have you know, twenty four to seven monitoring of GHF

(01:00:06):
sites that the surveillance video must reach out to where
the IDF lines are. If I'm not saying publish that
public Yeah, you don't want one.

Speaker 5 (01:00:17):
I'm not sure that's the case.

Speaker 6 (01:00:18):
But I can share it, share it privately with journalists
who could review it and then describe whether or not
because maybe the gunfire was coming from somewhere else. But
so could you commit to at least talking to your
superiors about giving a process to the to the surveillance day.

Speaker 5 (01:00:37):
Yes, I will, I will. I will make that. And
by the way, I'm a person who thinks transparency and
more visibility will help because I've been there and i
haven't seen anything like like this. What I will tell
you right now, if the IDEF is killing civilians anywhere
at Gaza, let alone anywhere near ours sites, we will
call it out and and and push them not to

(01:00:57):
do that. And and that's a tragedy and it should
not be happening. You can hear the IDEAF on our sites.
You can, so they're not sorry, to be clear, when
you are on our site, you can hear the IDEF
conducting operations far away. You can hear it a little closer.
You can hear gunfire is endemic to the region, right,
so you can hear it. You cannot see from at
least one of the sites that I'm usually on. You

(01:01:19):
cannot see the aid seekers, right. I mentioned that they
gather over almost a kilometer away. And just because of
structures and you know, Rafa is rubble. The IDEAF has
turned Rafa into rubble and so sorry, I lost my
train of thought. So but we pushed them every day
to do things.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
We can shift gears a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Here, there are two more that I want to get
from you, and I'll let Ryan you know if he
has other things he wants to get from you before
we let you go. We can put D five up
on the screen. So the Washington Post got their hands
on a Trump administration presentation of the so called Gaza
Riviera Plan. This is one sort of slide in their
presentation of what they want to do as part of

(01:02:03):
this plan to completely displace all two million Palestinians living
two million plus. However, many Palestinians remain in the Gaza
strip And if we could keep this up on the screen,
JHF figures quite prominently into this plan that has been
described as a total and complete ethnic cleansing. So you
can see on the left hand they describe the humanitarian

(01:02:23):
operations of which you know they name.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
Check you all.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
GHF operates under a humanitarian mandate to secure its humanitarian
operations in personnel hamas, free humanitarian transition areas are established.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
And then in the.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Next phase they say that the Great trust is created
and GHF folds under the great trust. First of all,
are you ware of this presentation? And does GHF? Has
GHF had any input, input or role in putting together
this plan that again would amount to the complete and

(01:02:57):
total displacement of all two million Palestinians who arerently inside
the gaza strip.

Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
So I think this is the one from earlier this year?
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
This was released what maybe a month ago?

Speaker 5 (01:03:10):
That's all long, It doesn't matter. I think this. I
think we're talking about the same thing. So we actually
that is not a g HF H slide deck. We
had nothing to do with creating it. I'm even sure
who did what I would And so we have had
no conversations about any of these kind of ideas.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
No one in your organization, you can you can say
no one with confidence. No one in your organization has
had participation in the gazas.

Speaker 5 (01:03:35):
Yeah, no one in the current organization. What I will
say is we are a product of President Trump's call
for innovative solutions. I think it was last fall, and
there were a ton of wacky ideas, uh and a
ton of different things that happened, But we were formed.
I believe in February in Delaware. We're an American nonprofit
and we.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Have a very Does GF oppose this plan?

Speaker 5 (01:03:59):
I don't know the details. I assume we would oppose it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
And again, but do you oppose at the cleansing in
general and the displacement of postes, then you can say
you oppose the plan without reservation, because that's what the
plan is, right.

Speaker 5 (01:04:11):
But again I haven't seen it. I've only seen that slide, so.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
You know, it's like something you should look into. Since
your course, we're.

Speaker 5 (01:04:18):
Opposed at the cleansing. We are opposed to war crimes. Yes,
of course, we oppose the casualties. We're opposed to the war.
We are pro cease fire. We are pro more aid.
And what I would I would I would recommend extreme
skepticism that anyone wants to stop the GHF and shut
us down, because what that means is less aid into Gaza.
Anyone who's advocating for less aid into Gaza, I would

(01:04:39):
I would meet with extreme skepticism. We are against that.
We are pro aid. We are pro the Arab States
standing in the air drops. We are pro the United Nations.
We have had meetings with them in New York recently
that we're productive and we are optimistic that we can
work with them. We stand ready, willing and eager to
do that. We are ready willing and eager to expand
into as many sites. You know, President Trump and his

(01:05:02):
team have been you know public you know, I've had
private meetings that have been publicly reported about the future
of God's and humanitarian efforts there. We're ready to expand
and feed more people. We await you know, a word
from them and direction from the American government on you know,
resources and how that's going to look. But we are
not participating in those conversations in an active way.

Speaker 6 (01:05:26):
Let me just follow on that real quickly. Philip Riley.
Philip Riley is a Can you tell us who Philip
Riley is?

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
Yeah, he's that I don't know exact title, but he
runs our logistics subcontractor SRS.

Speaker 6 (01:05:40):
It was reported that he consulted with Boston Consulting Group
through the development of this plan. Isn't that? I mean,
that appears to be a pretty close link between I
don't just he's advising Boston Consulting Group according to news reports.

Speaker 5 (01:05:56):
So so, mister Riley has actually been in country since
for a long time because he was helping run the
checkpoints of the border. So he has certainly been involved
in conversations that have evolved over time. And like I
you know, what I would say is there are a
lot of conversations. There's a lot of public stuff. PCG
is not involved in in GHF. I don't know, uh,

(01:06:18):
exactly the origin story of that, but like I said,
there are a lot of wacky ideas that came out
of President Trump's call for innovative solutions here, but ours
is very focused on on our model and feeding people.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
So it does seem then that someone in the organization,
Philip Riley, head of s RS, had conversations that were
involved in creating this Gaza rivera plan, which is tantamount
to you know, I.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
Don't know that.

Speaker 6 (01:06:46):
Yeah, I don't think something else with Boston Consulting Group.

Speaker 5 (01:06:50):
Sure, I mean Boston Consulting Group has a million of
foreign clients, has a lot of work. Yeah, you know, conversations.
All I know is there were a lot of wacky ideas.
I can't speak to everyone on the team who may
or may not involve those conversations, but what evolved from
that was the current GHF model. Which is to feed
the people of gods in a way that a moss
can't steal it at safe distribution sites.

Speaker 6 (01:07:11):
And one of the other things you've been criticized for
is or the sense that only kind of friendly reporters
are allowed quote unquote friendly reporters allowed on the GHF site.
Would you commit to allowing a breaking points or drop
site reporter to visit the site in the same way
that some of these other reporters had.

Speaker 5 (01:07:30):
Well, sure, between you, me and your audience, I push
for this every day. It is an active war zone
and it's complicated, but I will absolutely commit to pushing
for more. I do every day. That's why I'm here
right and I believe that what we are doing is
running smoothly and is really quite moving to see. So
be happy to happy to make that request on your guys' behalf.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
And Japan, how do you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
How do you rebut the idea that there has been
partisan favoritism here? I mean, yourself are Republican strategists. There
were two Democratic senators who attempted to gain access.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
They were denied. Joni Ernst was allowed.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
It does appear that, you know, sort of partisan aligned
media has been granted much more access. Of course, the
Trump administration has been as well. So how do you
rebut that criticism that there has been blatant partisan favoritism
played in terms of who gets access to the AID site, Well, I.

Speaker 5 (01:08:20):
Don't think that's true about the Democratic Centers not being allowed.
They were offered and rejected the offer to come to
see a distribution. And again this is for other people
to debate. Right, everything in America is highly politicized, and
you know, support for Israel or Palestine and that binary
choice is changing in America. But that's for others to debate, right.

(01:08:43):
We're focused on feeding people. If the United States Center
wanted to come see a distribution, we would absolutely bring
that senator out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
And then the last very technical question I have for you,
because this was another thing that was raised by Anthony
Abelar is he said that the contractors you hire come
in into Israel on a standard tourist visa. You know,
we asked you all in an email exchange about that,
and the response we got is that all GF GHF
contractors are.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
Quote authorized to work.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
What does that mean under what legal authority specifically? And
are you concerned about legal liability either for yourself or
for contractors at GHF.

Speaker 5 (01:09:24):
So no, I mean we are doing the right thing.
We're trying to feed people every single day in a
war zone where the risk is never zero. I'd have
to get back to you on the exact you know.
I'm not a I'm not a national affairs lawyer. I
don't know exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:09:37):
When you entered what sort of visa, what sort of
visa di G.

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
I think you know a work. I don't know the
exact term. I did not pick vacation. You know, when
you fill out the form online, you get a drop
down menu. It wasn't for permanent work, but it was
for you know, business purposes that I'm in the country,
and those are temporary. Right when you are here for
a certain amount of time, you certainly your visa has

(01:10:02):
to change and you start paying Israel Israeli taxes and
all that kind of stuff. You know. I'm not involved
of those conversations. I'm surely they'll tell me, uh when
when I have to fill out different paperwork. But everyone
is here legally, uh validly leap for valid legal reasons.

Speaker 6 (01:10:18):
Sure, last question for me, I just want to make
sure I understand the point that you were making earlier.
You know, one of the big holdups in the ceasefire
negotiations between Hamas and Israel has been whether or not
the un AID system would be reinstituted. As Crystal mentioned,
at times it seemed like GHF was opposed to that,

(01:10:39):
and GHF wanted to kind of maintain its position is
that is that no longer GHF's official position that that
if the if Israel would agree that, you are completely
comfortable turning back over the humanitarian aid distribution system to
the United Nations and other aid organizations.

Speaker 5 (01:11:02):
So what I would say is we support the Union
Nations operating the legacy system. Had some problems and we
believe they have some execution problems with their ability to
do the job. We were never meant to replace them.
We would work alongside them. And what I would say
is a humanitarian organization really is in the business of

(01:11:23):
putting itself out of business. So if the United Nations
could meet the full need of the hunger problem in Gaza,
GJF would no longer need to operate. We are prepared
to be there and work with whomever would like to
work with us until the full need is meant. But
certainly if the full need is being met, GJF does
not need to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
All right, Chafe and Faith, thank you for your time today.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:11:48):
Thank you of course.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
All right, guys, So we are now joined by Anthony Aguilar,
who you all know as the former Green Bray turned
GHF whistleblower. Is going to is to respond to that
interview we just had with Chape and Fay of GHF,
and we'll have some other questions for Anthony as well.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
But great to see Anthony.

Speaker 8 (01:12:07):
Welcome, Thank you, It's great to see see you both.
And good morning.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
Yeah, good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
So you were able to take a listen to the
interview that we conducted with Chape and Fay before we
get into some of the specific claims he made about
you in particular, which I do want to give you
a chance to respond to. You know, what was your
impression overall of the interview and how it comported with
your experience that you've asserted that you witnessed on the
ground in Gaza.

Speaker 8 (01:12:32):
It's becoming quite evident to me that over the course
of the interviews and discussions that have been had with
mister Chapin Fay of the GHF, that their position is
becoming much more desperate and erratic. You know. On the
on the twenty ninth of July, when they had a
major announcement to make, I requested to be a part

(01:12:57):
of that presser and they denied it. On the fourth
of August, when they had their next big announcement, I
requested to be able to answer questions. I was actually
dialed into both of those events, and they they openly
denied it. For this occasion, you know, I would gladly
have to take the opportunity to have a discussion with

(01:13:19):
with mister Chape and Fay, both of us together having
a discussion. I don't think that he would. I don't
know if he would, if he would accept that invite,
but I would. I would sincerely appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
And I can say we actually did ask for you
both to be part of the segment today so that
he could make his claims directly to you, and and
they declined.

Speaker 8 (01:13:42):
Oh well, not surprised. But so I just wanted to
go in some of the before we go into the
specifics with a mirror and some of the the personnel
aspects which we can gladly cover again there I want
to start off with some points that that I that
I agree with mister Chape and Fay, I'd like to
start from a point of a compromise. I agree what

(01:14:05):
he said that he does not know what he's talking
about when he doesn't understand the military aspects of the sites.
I agree with that he has no idea what he's
talking about from a tactical operational perspective about what the sites,
where they're located, what happens around the sites. For him
to say that the entrance to the sites or the
visualization from the sites that is a kilometer away is

(01:14:29):
not true. I was there, I having served as an
intrument in combat as a Green Beret, I can tell
distances off the back of my hand, and I know
what I'm talking about. He contradicted himself anyway when he
said that, you know, perhaps the holding areas is a
kilometer away, but then when you hear the shooting outside

(01:14:50):
of the site so very close that he claims is
the IDF and not GHF. Well that it's because they're close.
So which is it, Chapin are they? Are they a
kilometer away? Or are they or are they close? I
don't think mister chape and Fay knows what a kilometer is,
so I'll give an opportunity to research that. The other
aspect about that, you know, not necessarily knowing what's going

(01:15:11):
on on the sites. He went to Cite one, he
went to Site three for photo opportunities. You can see
him on the GHF web page where he's doing somewhat
of what you would look at as a influencer type
of self selfie styled interview. The truth is that mister
chape and Fay, in the time that he has been

(01:15:33):
in Israel for crisis media management, stays at the Sheraton
Hotel in Tel Aviv at twelve hundred dollars a night. Fact,
that's where he stays. So in the time that he's
been staying there, mister Chapin Fay just to stay at
the hotel at the executive Suite for security reasons, has
spent over twenty eight thousand dollars just in lodging for

(01:15:56):
him to be there. That money should be spent on food, water,
finding ways to improve the sites, but no, he is
a grifter. Furthermore, with the sites and talking about you know,
the that they innovate. G h F innovates according to
mister Chape and Faye, what about water? Why why haven't

(01:16:16):
they innovated to delivering water? I think that would be a.

Speaker 6 (01:16:21):
Fantastic You might have heard him say that they're exploring
digging wells at the at their sites.

Speaker 8 (01:16:28):
Now mm hmm, they're they're they're exploring digging wells. Is
like me doing my taxes at the d m V
with the librarian. That is never going to happen. They
they use words, they use description of words. For example,
when he said to you that he would gladly follow
up with you talking to family, I would I would

(01:16:49):
seriously consider following up on that doggedly, because I don't
think that they're going to afford that opportunity. It's it's
unfortunate that we can't have honest conversations and that if
you look at the incident or the press brief from
the twenty ninth of July and then the press brief

(01:17:10):
that was just here on the fourth of August, they
they refuse to address the allegations and the critical concerns
of the starvation and the shooting near and at the
sites people have died on the sites. For mister Chap
and Fay to say that no one has ever died
on the sites, is a is A is categorically false.

Speaker 6 (01:17:33):
The deaths at the Stampedes.

Speaker 8 (01:17:36):
But yeah, death during the Stampedes, that was not the
fault of AMAS. The death on the second of June
when the woman was hit in the head with the
stun grenade and the Safe Reach Solutions operations director was
so hurriedly trying to get her out of there on
a donkey cart. The individual that you showed the video
today of the the g HF Safe Reach Solutions contracted

(01:18:02):
US contractor shooting from the burm the the oh yeah,
I think you got one. Hell yeah, that wasn't the IDEF.
That was a US contractor firing on the site. For
to say anything different is just it's ludicrous, I mean.
And g HF even set themselves in a statement that
they they fired the individual. So if he wasn't shooting

(01:18:24):
and it wasn't him that that that said that, if
that was the IDEF, why did they fire him. If
I was that individual, I'd be firing. I'd be filing
a wrongful termination suit because if they're now saying that
it wasn't him and he didn't do anything wrong, then
why did they fire him. So, you know, their their
narratives over time just don't add up. They don't make sense.
And I think that the gods a humanitarian foundation in

(01:18:44):
their in their pr approach, rely on people forgetting what
has been said, or rely on people not being able
to put the pieces together in this by by saying
that it's that it's that it's complicated or that it's
too complex for the average person to understand. So therefore
you must just take everything that GHF takes as gospel.

(01:19:07):
And GHF then their position is that the IDEF can't
be trusted, the medicine san Frontier can't be trusted, the
un can't be trusted, the Gaza Health Ministry which is
run by the Palaestine Liberation Authority not FROMAS so they
can't be trusted. Other organization doctors, surgeons, me, you know,

(01:19:27):
can't be trusted. So you know, I'd like to answer
a question that mister chape and Fay asked directly about
me in terms of what kind of man I am.
You know, well, when mister Chapin Fay was at Amherst
College hanging at Drake's Bar with his friends, I was
serving in uniform and fighting in war for this country.
That's the kind of man I am. Integrity morals. I'm

(01:19:49):
not a paid spokesman. I don't get paid by by
anybody to be a paid spokesperson. I don't get paid
to stay in lavish hotels and give press conferences where
I have the the ability to not answer questions. What
I saw in Gaza, what I experienced on the ground
is the truth. There is indiscriminate killing, there is massive displacement.

(01:20:12):
We are we the United States, through the Gaza military
and Foundation, are complicit in the continued starvation of the population.
There is a famine. People are dying every day of hunger.
The bombing that's going on right now in northern Gaza
that is televised every day. All of those civilians are

(01:20:33):
being displaced to the south where the GHF will hold
them in one big area where he said it himself,
Site four was closed because of security. It is closed
because of security, and the IDF are currently occupying the
site in the nets are in Cordor. That's a fact.
The construction in the south where they now only have

(01:20:53):
two sites open. That construction is the expansion of the
two point seven kilometer concentration camp that GHF will run.
They are trying to distract from the reality. They are
trying to distract from the facts with these dramatic announcements
of oh, we have a we have a big announcement
to make and it's it's all about discrediting me. And

(01:21:13):
I say bring it on, because you're just digging your
whole deeper today in their own press conference talking about biometrics,
seriously talking about biometric collection on sites that's not a
humanitarian mission, saying that they that they that that the
UN is just giving food to commas after every organization

(01:21:35):
to include Israel, has said that's not the case. They
keep digging their whole deeper. And the truth is, the
truth is the international community legal entities. When the United
States are looking into the God's Humanitarian Foundation's financials and
their activities in very deep form, they are looking deep.

(01:21:56):
And when people start to go to prison and people
start to throw people under the bus from GHF, mister
chap and mister chap and Fay is going to have
a very hard time hiding from the truth when he's
been the one cheerleading this. So I feel sorry for
mister chapin fag that he is being taken advantage of
by the GHF. He doesn't even know what status he

(01:22:20):
is in a country. He doesn't even know his visa status.
You asked him that clearly and he didn't know. I mean, Anthony.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
That's why that's why we wanted to host both him
and you. We all know there's there's limited access, certainly
to the GHF sites. There's limited access from international and
journalists into Gaza itself. So that's why we wanted to
have him on and you on, and people can listen
to him, listen to you, and they can make up
their minds about what they believe is happening on the ground.

(01:22:49):
And you know the claims that have been made about
him and that he made about you. I want to
ask you very specifically about a mirror And obviously you
came on with us and another news outlets and you
showed us pictures of a boy that you had a
touching interaction with that you said, then you know, exited
the AID distribution, you heard gunfire, and then you went

(01:23:10):
and you visibly saw him and you know, he appeared lifeless.
GHF is claiming that they have located this boy that
you interacted with. We can put F one up on
the screen. This is the Fox News Digital report and
we asked obviously Chapin about this. This is the boy
that they say you interacted with. They say his nickname

(01:23:31):
is actually a Boode. He's asked here, you know, they're
removing him from the Gaza Strip. They ask him what
he thinks about that. He says outside the Gaza Strip
is nice. This is his mother. So a few things
that they claim is that they were able to identify
this boy through their relationship with the aid seekers on
the ground, and they say that they used biometrics to

(01:23:55):
confirm his identity as the same boy that you had
that interaction with, and that we've all all seen the
pictures of you know, what is your response And of
course the reason they you know, the reason this is
important is because they feel if they can rebut this
explosive claim of yours that this child was killed near
a GHF site, that that will undermine your credibility on

(01:24:18):
all the claims that that you're making. So what is
your response to, you know, to this reporting from Fox
News Digital and the assertions from GHF.

Speaker 8 (01:24:26):
It is my firm belief that the young boy that
they featured on this for August featurette is is not
the boy that I spoke to that I engaged with
on the twenty eighth of May at distribution site number
three in Gossam. Don't I don't believe the biometric confirmation piece.

(01:24:49):
If they did, they would have shared it. If they
had that, they would put it out. If they had that,
they would surely give that as the smoking gun to
prove that that it's him. The mother in one photo
or in one scene, she's covered and then the next
she's not. And when I asked could she be interviewed uncovered,
they said, well, that's culturally inappropriate, but she's uncovered in another.

(01:25:14):
The story doesn't make sense. That is not a mirror
that young boy. Though he looks similar, there are so
many features that are different. He doesn't have the chipped
front incisor so did they get him dental work, the
scar on his forehead, the scar that this boy has
on his forehead that a mirror didn't. The different size

(01:25:34):
in the ears, the height, the stature, the hand gestures.
It's not the same child. And what I would further
ask is that the story of a mirror, in terms
of this young boy coming to a distribution site, separated
from his family. The woman that they feature there is
not his mother, it's his stepmother. He's separated from his family,

(01:25:58):
his father was killed in an airstrike, he was living
in an encampment.

Speaker 6 (01:26:02):
I think the claim is that that is his mother,
But Middle East Eye had interviewed his stepmother, and so
there are a couple of other claims that GHF and
also some some outlets have made that call into question
the credible of the story. I want to get you
to respond to those. One one being that you described
being at an AID site that was closed on the

(01:26:24):
day that you described being on that AID site. Two
being that the video of the interactions shows a slightly
shows a slightly different interaction than the one that you described,
And three being that at different times, at different times,
you've told different versions of the story. One version was

(01:26:45):
that you saw his lifeless body and described the wounds
that he had suffered, and in other versions you said
you saw shooting in his direction and you believed that
he had been killed. And that there's a discrepancy between
those different version. So let's let's take those one by one.
Maybe maybe start with that most recent with the most

(01:27:07):
recent one, like the discrepancies in the different versions that
you had told.

Speaker 8 (01:27:13):
Yeah, so discrepancy one in terms of the site in
an interview, in my in my discussion, I said that
it was at that it was at site number number
two on the twenty eighth of May, and I have
since not only corrected that, but I've said that in
saying that it was site number two, it was site

(01:27:33):
number three. That is a fact. Site number one, two,
and three are all very close. And to say that
site number two wasn't that that I said that he
was at a site that wasn't open for two weeks,
that's categorically false. Site two is open. Three days later,
we were at site number two. And to remember, I
went to all of the sites. I didn't just work
site three and therefore, oh, you don't even know what

(01:27:54):
site you're at. I worked all of the sites. So
in that day, in that same day, in the afternoon
of that exact same day, I was at site two
because we were establishing the hookup for a generator to
get the site running in operational. So mistaken in terms
of when I said that I was at site number

(01:28:15):
two on the twenty eighth of May for distribution. I
was at site number two on the twenty eighth of May.
The photo of me and a mirror and on that
location is at distribution site number three, the communist site.
That's a fact. I was at site number three. So
forgive me for misspeaking two or three when both sites

(01:28:36):
are about one hundred meters from each other. Ok So
to the second point of the interaction, the video that
was provided by this source, the Daily Wire, and remembers
let's consider sources here. So the Daily Wire has what
they called a bodycam footage of which did not come
from me. I did not have a body cam. The

(01:28:58):
contractor that was standing next to me that they said
they got the footage from didn't have a didn't have
a body cam. So if they're talking about what he
and I individually took off of our iPhones as non
professional photographers that were there just taking the scene. In
the Daily Wire's publication of this engagement, when a mirror
comes up to us and he clearly kisses the hand

(01:29:21):
of the contractor next to me, and he clearly turns
to me and as I'm reaching out my hand to
talk to him. The bodycam footage that the Daily Wire
showed conveniently has eight seconds where that bodycam is not
or the camera isn't facing towards myself in a mirror
in the conversation that we were having. I never said

(01:29:41):
that that Amr and I had a conversation where we
where we broke bread and we were together for hours.
It was a very quick interaction. As I extended my
right hand, he kissed my right hand. I placed my
hands on his shoulder. You can see this in the
pictures that I have of each step along the way.
In the video that the Daily Wire provided, they conveniently
leave out eight seconds showing my interaction with a mirror.

(01:30:06):
And I don't have that video because I took a
video of kind of the overall scene, not that particular interaction.
So they have this video, they own it. I don't
have control over it. They won't release it to anybody,
but they cut eight seconds out of it, which I
think is a pretty important eight seconds. It shows that interaction.
But regardless of the infinite details of the interaction. The

(01:30:30):
interaction occurred on the third, on the twenty eighth of May,
at Site number three. A mirror was a living boy.
A mirr was a living human being who was at
the site, who I spoke to, who was there with
a meager amount of scraps of food that he picked
up from the ground that can be clearly be seen
by all. So the third point of discussion in terms
of what I saw. So, each of the sites are

(01:30:55):
surrounded on all four sides by a twenty foot burm.
When I was engaging with a mirror from inside the site,
I am on the inside side of that berm, just
like every contractor is. We are not allowed, we are
forbidden by the IDF to travel beyond the berm, beyond
the wall, so to speak. We can't go outside of

(01:31:17):
the sites. We can only stay on them, or at
the towers or on the top of the berms. When
the crowd was leaving, there was the small group of
individuals left because as I've described before, with this large,
massive crowd of people coming in and typically at the
end where you have women and children that remain, a
mirror was amongst them. You also sow in the pictures
and videos there was another boy that was wearing a

(01:31:38):
black shirt that was with him too, that was a
little bit older. He was amongst them too, And they
go and they're leaving the UG Solutions contractors at that point.
Shortly thereafter, as they're saying bye to me and he
looks back at me and they're going and I you know,
distribution from my perspective was complete at that point. So

(01:32:00):
I'm walking back towards the trucks to you know, see
when we're leaving, shooting breaks out. The IDF began shooting. Now,
remember this was only our second day of distribution. There
was not a clear pattern of you know, this was
all new to us. I was at site number one
the day before, and on this distribution day, I'm at

(01:32:20):
site number three. So when the IDF began shooting, to me,
that seemed concerning because it was so close. The Markava
tank that's parked outside of the exit to Site number three,
where these people were leaving from, is very very close
to the site. So when mister Faye was talking about
the difference between a machine gun or a quaxle machine gun,

(01:32:43):
I'd say, stay in your lane. You don't know what
you're talking about. I was an infantry officer at Green
Bray for twenty five years. I know the difference between
coaxle dismounted machine guns. What fires off a tank and
the Markava tank. So please anybody when he talks about
the difference stream machine gun fire, like, at least give
me that credibility. At least give me that that I
understand what I'm talking about. So the machine gun fire

(01:33:05):
from the Arkava tank was very close. So I went
up to the berm, stood twenty feet high on this
berm looking to the north, and it wasn't a kilometer away,
as mister chapin Fay said, it was not a kilometer away.
It was about one hundred and sixty meters away. And
if anyone in the military has has has qualified on

(01:33:27):
their weapon system, you know that you qualify on your
weapon system with open sites, with the naked eye out
to three hundred meters. So can you see that? Absolutely,
you can see that. And what I saw, and what
I'd like to further direct people's attention to is that
if you look at the BEAP, if you watch the
BBC interview between me and mister Jeremy Bowen that was

(01:33:49):
on I think the twenty eighth or the twenty ninth
of July, somewhere around that timeframe, you will see it
opens up with Jeremy speaking very eloquently This may look
like a battle scene, but it's not. This is a
distribution site. That scene where Palestinians are lying on the
ground and bullets are flying into them and hitting the

(01:34:09):
road and flying over them. You could hear the bullets
whizzing overhead. You can hear the bullets hitting into the crowd.
That is the exact same intersection of the exit to
Sit three where it tees into the Marague corridor and
where you see them lying on the ground and you
see that piece of elevated dirt that is the Marague corridor.

(01:34:31):
That location where that was filmed, where Palestinians are taking
cover from machine gun fire, is that exact same location.
That is the spot that I observed that day and
off camera you don't see it. But the machine gun
fire that you hear that is coming from the coaxum
machine gun of the Markava tank that's at the intersection

(01:34:53):
that was firing into the crowd, firing into that crowd
to keep them going west. So as this group was leaving.
Never have I said, I have never made the accusation
that the IDF were waiting there with children in their sites,
opening up with the machine gun at them. I think
that there's probably some unethical momeral things going on, but

(01:35:13):
I've never made that claim. What I claimed was that
the IDF we're shooting into the crowd for crowd control,
as they had demonstrated in the past at Site number one.
As this crowd is leaving and you have a machine
gun that's firing, you can't see machine gun bullets fly
through the air. So if I'm running down a road

(01:35:33):
and there's a machine gun, I don't see the bullets
and can stop and know. So you have women and
children who are leaving the site, frantic because they've been
hit with stum grenades, in tear gas and pepper spray,
and the UG Solutions contractors shooting in the air as
Chapin described, and they're running, and you have the Markava
tank sitting outside the position that is shooting its machine

(01:35:56):
gun that cannot see the exit because of the berm
next to the t and as that machine gun was shooting,
and these people were leaving and they ran into that
hail of gunfire at that exact intersection that's described in
that BBC video. People fell to the ground. People hit
the ground when a mirror the boy that I was
looking at when he fell to the ground. He didn't

(01:36:17):
fall to the ground like someone that was taking cover
or someone that was, you know, taking a knee and
scared and getting down. He dropped to the ground. And
when a seven six two millimeter bullet hits a human being,
it is the drop to the ground is not something
that you know, it's like, it's not in the like
in the movies where there's this dramatic oh you got
you dropped to the ground. And that's what happened to

(01:36:39):
that young boy. And I am confident I believe, and
I firmly believe that his body, like hundreds of others,
is buried in the dirt outside of that site because
every time, every time we did distribution, at the end
of every distribution, the IDF would move through escorted by tanks.

(01:37:00):
I have this on photo, I have videos of it
escorted by tanks with their bulldozers to bulldoze the whole area.
And they would do this after every distribution. So you
also heard from a contractor that did an interview with
CBS about two weeks ago talking about how the sites,

(01:37:21):
how he was directed as a truck driver to pick
up body parts and would see the IDF burying the
bodies outside of the sites. That individual was not me.
That was not me, That is an entirely different contractor.
So it is my belief that a Mer's body, like
many is buried in the dirt outside of Site number three,

(01:37:42):
and that the Safe Reach Solutions and GHF put great
effort into using biometrics. And I also have concerns that
DoD US DoD assets were leveraged to do this based
on the position of one of the people within SRS

(01:38:04):
and his correspondence back to members of the Joint Special
Operations Command. So this is being looked into. So with
the assets that were applied to this to find a
boy that looks like Amir, they put great effort into it.
And I have a couple questions that I'd like to
ask them that I don't know if they'd ever answer,
which I did ask them. Fox News Digital reached out

(01:38:26):
to me and said, do you have a response? You
have until ten PM, and I responded to it in
great detail, and I got no response back from them,
nor did they consider anything of what I said. Your
platform and other platforms whenever they have questions and they
reach out to GHF for clarification to rebuttal. You always
consider what they've said in your follow on questions or

(01:38:48):
your questions to me or others. Why doesn't Fox Digital
do that? Is it because Chapin Fay used to work
for them. I don't know. That's for the audience to decide.
But when you look at the outlets that they choose
to give their information to The Daily Wire, Fox News Digital,
it's it raises questions. But if they found this boy,

(01:39:10):
if they found a mirror on the twenty third of August,
they didn't come forward that he had been found until
the fourth of September. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation does not
have the authority to investigate, detain hold, or or safe
keep any any Palestinian period. They do not have the authority.

(01:39:36):
There are there's tourists. So what they did was kidnapping.
What they did was then send the young boy out
of the country. And if Gaza is so dangerous that
they had to take a young boy and get him
out of the country, why don't they do that for
every child? If Gaza is so dangerous, why can't they

(01:39:56):
do that for every child?

Speaker 6 (01:39:57):
What they were saying is that they were worried. This
is their wording that they were worried that Hamas would
find him and find him still being alive to be
damaging to their messaging because it would undermine your credibility
if he was found alive, so that they were worried
that then Hamas would go out and kill him in

(01:40:18):
order to kind of buttress your credibility. One thing that
to me lends credibility to the GHF claim is that
the family structure that they describe for a Boode is
similar to the family structure that as we understand it
with the Mirror. And so I'm curious what your interactions

(01:40:39):
with the Emir's family have been like and what you
can and would you be willing to, you know, speak
with a Bude in order to try to determine because
would you think if you, if you could do a
zoom call with the Boode, that you'd be able to
then determine to your satisfaction whether or not this is

(01:41:00):
the same same boy.

Speaker 8 (01:41:02):
Oh absolutely if I and I and I have I
have asked for that opportunity, and you know, there's just
some clear indicators of the of the young boy about
and I have I have no doubt, I have zero
doubt at all that that young boy who they have
is a Palestinian boy who is probably at one of
the sites at one point, who whose name is probably

(01:41:24):
a Bout. I have no doubt that young boy is
who he is, But he is not a mirror. The
scar on his clavicle magically disappeared, a new scar on
his forehead, he had dental work, his ears are different sites.
I am quite confident that that is not a mirror.
And if I have the opportunity to speak to him,
if anybody had the opportunity to speak to him, I

(01:41:44):
think it would be clear. Why can nobody talk to him?
Why you would think that they would want independent journalists.
They're interviewing him and showing the world, but yet they
provide us these grainy videos that they have that GHF.
When you ask GHF, what's your source? Well we are,
We're our own source. Okay, Well that's that's not very transparent,
mister Chapin Fay, who wants transparency, Let others talk to him.

(01:42:07):
Let me I'm the only so the The other thing
is that out of the people they had there, Chape
and Fay, he's never met a mirror. He wouldn't know
the difference between a mirror. And and the boy next door,
he's never seen him. The aid workers, these humanitarian workers
that they had that they featured in this video at
one of them is not a humanitarian worker. He's a contractor.
He's a contractor who has been accused of assault, who's

(01:42:29):
still working there. He's not an aid worker. He's never
seen a he's never seen a mirror either. The other
person that's working at the site, she she is not
an aid worker. In fact, that individual and I'm not
going to say her name because they accused me of
wanting to you know, dock somebody, but anybody can look
it up. That individual there, that the that is in

(01:42:52):
the picture, not this particular picture, but the one with
a bood.

Speaker 5 (01:42:56):
She was.

Speaker 8 (01:42:57):
She was kicked out of the West Bank by the
IDF for for having for being pro Hamas or having
connections to Hamas. They kicked her out of the West Bank,
and then she shows up at IDF or GHF looking
for a job. That person, then you have the other
you know, the who I will mention her name because
she's already she's she's already been identified. But Jennifer Counter,

(01:43:20):
she's not a humanitarian aid worker. She was a career
covert case officer in the CIA who now works for GHF,
who was the vice president of operations for Orbis that
runs the engine software for the biometrics that GHF is
using in country. Put all these pieces together. These aren't
humanitarian workers, and none of them, none of them, have

(01:43:43):
ever seen a mirror. Why not bring the contractor that
was with me on the site that day?

Speaker 5 (01:43:48):
Why not?

Speaker 8 (01:43:49):
Why not interview.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
Him and Anthony?

Speaker 2 (01:43:53):
Just to go back to Ryan's question, there were there
were additional questions raised about the timeline because I believe
it was twenty ninth that you had the interaction with
a mirror that there you know, there's photographic evidence of
which we just had May twenty eighth, there was a
report that his mother or stepmother I'm sorry, I'm not

(01:44:15):
sure which one. Stepmother said that no, no, he didn't
go missing until July, so, you know which obviously he
would not coincide with him having been killed on that
day May twenty eighth.

Speaker 4 (01:44:29):
Did you speak with the family.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
What is your understanding of why there is that confusion
and discrepancy.

Speaker 8 (01:44:37):
I not only spoke with the stepmother and the uncle,
but I also spoke with the the mother. And again
these are all what we're assuming to be these relationships.
There's no verification, but we're going with with what's been
said and who's been said. Out of all those individuals,
between the stepmother, the mother, and the uncle, no one
has ever demonstrated to me verification that they even know

(01:44:58):
or have a relationship with the boy. However, in taking
their word for it and saying that dates so to speak,
the step mother. So the overall situation is young Amir
lived with his mother and father in Communist the city,
the city of Communists, when it was bombed and they

(01:45:18):
were forced out. His father was killed and he was
separated from his mother in the evacuation when they moved
them all to the Communist camp. So not Communist city,
but Communist un camp. A family took him in. The
mother that says, his stepmother is not a stepmother by
any type of formal familial connection. They took him in.

(01:45:38):
On the twenty eighth of May, he and his uncle
who I talked to, who I spoke with, were going
to Cite number three to get aid to bring back
to the family. At the intersection of the Marou Corridor
in the coastal corridor, where the crowd was being held
on that morning. When they started shooting at the crowd
to hold them back, the crowd panicked and was separated

(01:46:00):
from his uncle. His uncle didn't make it through.

Speaker 7 (01:46:05):
This.

Speaker 8 (01:46:05):
Many people can come line when the crowd was released.
Amir did and he was with the crowd when he
showed up to the site. He had no one. There
was no parent, no uncle, no family, no brothers, no siblings,
no one. The boy in the black shirt that was
there even said like this, he doesn't know where his
family is. So the mother that had said that, well,

(01:46:26):
he didn't go separate missing until the twenty ninth of July.
It's quite interesting to me that the mother that only
GHF says they talked to who is concealed, happens to
say that the day that he went missing is the
same day that they decided to then do their next
smear campaign story. So that's one data point. But to

(01:46:46):
the point she also said, the stepmother also said that
her son wasn't at Site number three on the twenty
eighth of May. Okay, Well, I have pictures and videos
of the boy that I talked to on the twenty
eighth of May, so if her son or who she's
missing may have been a bood was not at Site
number three on the twenty eighth of May. Well, then

(01:47:07):
that's not a mirror, and we're not talking about the
same person. Furthermore, GHF has already used their UNO card,
their reverse UNO card of oh, the boy's still alive
on the twenty ninth of May when they made I
was sitting in your studio. As a matter of fact,
when we talked about their claims, where they said from

(01:47:30):
the attorney, mister Dave Panzer who says, oh, mister Aguilar
claims that on the twenty eighth of May he saw
this young boy and that this young boy died. Well,
here's a picture of the same boy the following day
at the same site. He's not dead. So they already
claimed that he was still alive then. And to be clear,
both of those pictures, the picture that I have of

(01:47:51):
a mirror and the picture that I have of the
other boy they said was a mirror, are not from
the same site. I took both of those pictures. I
have the metadata. One picture was taken from Site number
three on the twenty eighth of May. The other picture
was taken at Site number four on the second of June.
There is no way, because of the restrictions in the
movement to the military corridors between Rafa and conunis to

(01:48:12):
beige that anybody, any Palestinian that was at Site one,
two or three. There's no way they could have been
at Site number four. So that is not the same boy.
And and them saying that they've already they've already made
that claim. So now twice twice now they've said, well,
lam're still alive, and here he is. And on both

(01:48:33):
occasions it's two different boys. So it and and I
can tell you, like I have children, when you look
at your children, you know different, Like the boy that
they have in their featurette is not a mirror. It
is not similar. Yes, And what I would like to

(01:48:56):
keep in mind with everybody is that we're talking about
an organization that is run by the CIA, that in
it has an absolute motive to discredit me because of
what I know and what I've seen and the facts
that I have. The only way out they have from

(01:49:16):
from war crimes and prison and being investigated by the
government is to make people believe that I'm not credible
as a witness. That's there that's their their their strategy.
And what I would ask everybody to look through this
deeply is that look at the pictures. They don't look alike.
They're not the same child. But even if even if

(01:49:39):
they even if it were, even if it were, it
does not change the fact that Now, now, perhaps they
say that that is Okay, let's just say, for for
sake of the GHF argument, that that is a mirror.
Like we can biometric DNA testing, it's beyond a doubt
that is him. Okay, got it? Well, then what happened

(01:50:02):
to the child that was killed at ATS Site number
three on the twenty eighth of May along with the others,
Because a child and children and women and were killed.
So was it the boy in the black shirt? Then
was it the other little boy and children that were there?
So they keep coming out with these, oh, well, here's
a mirror. Okay, Well, then where is he? Oh? On
the twenty ninth of May, we talked to the mother

(01:50:23):
and the mother said he wasn't never there. But then
here's the amir that she says, and none of the
names match. Okay, Well, then what seems to me is
that there's not just one kid that's missing. There's two
kids that are missing, and now they're coming out and
saying like, oh, a mer's alive. Here he is okay. Well,
then there's potentially three kids that have been murdered and missing,
so that their argument makes no sense. And it is deeply,

(01:50:47):
deeply concerning to me that they think that this parading
of a boy they found alive, that that makes everything okay.

Speaker 6 (01:51:00):
Another argument that they've made that they say undermines your
credibility is that you're a discrownalded employee who basically wanted
to kind of shake them down and threaten them and
threaten to take take them apart or destroy them if
they didn't meet your demands. I think let's play. I
think F three is from them.

Speaker 1 (01:51:20):
As late as July fourth, mister Aguiler informed UG leadership
he submitted a new application for work in Gozam. He
wrote to the company on June fourteenth, quote, I do
not want to leave. I understand that my current contract
as the Jaytalk operator is terminated. Fine, but I can

(01:51:45):
be put on a new contract. If other personnel liking
that or not is the fear, then UG is being
held hostage. I can be of huge value to this company.
And contract take advantage of me as an asset, and
mister Aguiler threatened UG Solutions with retribution if he wasn't
hired back and so the next day, on July fifteenth,

(01:52:07):
he wrote that he could be quote your best friend
or your worst nightmare. Stop effing around, put me back
to work, and let's get this mission done. In a
June twenty first message, mister Aguiler cited his personal family
needs when begging to be rehired. Mister Aguiler ended the

(01:52:27):
message with quote, figure something out or on on a
plane come Tuesday, and the gloves are off. On May
twenty eighth, mister Aguiler described a signal message distributed a
signal message praising UG Solutions, and he said quote delivering
and distributing three hundred and eighteen point three tons of

(01:52:50):
humanitarian aid to a starving and displaced population, wrote sentiment
in the media, despite whatever people may think about the
politics of the situation, your presence meaning ug's presence, GHF's
presence is seen as a good thing. On the same day,
mister Aguiler wrote to UG Solutions leadership, this is a
very rewarding mission. I'm excited every day. These are the

(01:53:16):
relevant times during which mister Aguilar was claiming to have
sent a memo to the company's raising issues. On May
thirty one, he shared a similar sentiment with his colleagues,
and he wrote to them, be proud, be humble. You
were making a difference in the future of this region
and geopolitics around the globe.

Speaker 6 (01:53:37):
So I mean, don't they make a fair point that
you threatened them that the gloves would come off if
they didn't give you your job back. They didn't give
you the job back, and now the gloves are off.
How do you respond to that?

Speaker 8 (01:53:49):
The separate signal message on the gloves are off in
your worst nightmare was not pertaining to my employment. It
was pertaining to my charges of assault against the UG
Solutions operations officer, the gentleman name named mo Katab, who

(01:54:11):
assaulted me, who called me a quote unquote p p
word pussy, called me a coward, and after I resigned
and slapped me and broke my phone. The conversation there
with the gloves are off or that I can be
your worst nightmare is that when the UG Solutions Chief

(01:54:32):
Operations Officer, corporate mister Nate Potter contacted me to tell
me we're going to pay for your phone. We're going
to do an investigation. They even sent me this nice
formal letter thanking me for my hard work in telling
me they were going to investigate. And I told them
before I leave Israel, we are going to sit down
and we're going to have a discussion, the leadership, mister

(01:54:56):
Katab and me, and we're going to discuss one that
you know, I want an apology. You don't slap some
You know, we're adults. You don't slap somebody because you
don't agree with them too. Some type of consequence or action.
He should have been fired or at least, you know,
an investigation done. And their response to me was that

(01:55:18):
we investigated and we agree that you know, he didn't
hit you that hard. That was their response. So my
position to them was that you have an employee in
a senior position that assaulted another employee, meaning he assaulting me,
and you're doing nothing about it. You can address it
here as a company, or when I get home to

(01:55:40):
North Carolina, I will be filing criminal charges against this
individual and the company for negligence in allowing it to happen.
You cannot get away.

Speaker 6 (01:55:50):
You seem also to be asking for your job back
or to extend your contract.

Speaker 8 (01:55:56):
So the contract job that in the discussion there is
I resigned on the on the thirteenth, I resigned in
writing uh, Safe Each Solutions upon my resignation. So the
so what what mister chapin Fay said that Safe Each
Solutions is like the logistics company. That that's not true.
Safe Each Solutions is the prime contract. Safe Each Solutions

(01:56:17):
is the one that receives the money from the Israeli
government from co GOT to pay for each of the aspects.
UG Solutions is under Safe Each Solutions.

Speaker 2 (01:56:25):
Which which they deny by the way, well that they
receive is reelly funding.

Speaker 8 (01:56:30):
Well, here's the thing though, mister Chapin Fay denies that
GHF receives funding. GHF does not receive funding from co GOT.
S r S directly receives the money from co GOT,
and I know they do because we we were there
when we had our on the second day of being
in country, when we were supposed to receive our weapons
and they weren't there. I I was partially in charge

(01:56:53):
of trying to figure out how to get them and
what we had. What we had come to realize was
that co GOT had not yet released the funds to
say Freach Solutions for us to purchase the weapons. So CogAT,
which is the Israeli government Ministry of Defense, is absolutely
one paying Safe Each Solutions. They have a contract. They
have a contract. So for chapin Fay to say that

(01:57:15):
GHF isn't accepting money, okay, GHF isn't. GHF can't accept
any money. They have no agency is a thing. They
don't exist. Safe Each Solutions and you try to play
it off by this old logistics company. Safe Reach Solutions
is the prime contract holder. Safe Freach Solutions and the
Gods of Humanitarian Foundation are owned by the same equity firm,

(01:57:38):
management company out of Wyoming. They are the same thing,
just of two different names. However, Safereach Solutions receives the
money directly, but not so safe Freach Solutions offered me
and I have these I have these messages as well
that they have that they that they refuse to provide

(01:58:00):
that they offered me a job to stay. They said,
you're valuable. We want to put you in a position
at Safe Each Solutions to be in charge of the sites.
And at that point I had said to them, well,
there's a lot of things that got to be fixed,
one including to where this relationship with the IDF in
terms of like who you said, where their client? Well,

(01:58:24):
that's you know we are, but you know we still
have some we can still have control of things. So
when they offered me on the thirteenth, Safe Each Solutions,
after I tended my resignation, Kevin Sullivan, vice president of
operations for Safety Solutions, who was in country in Israel,
offered me a job that was then verified through Safe

(01:58:45):
Reach that yes, we want you to work for us.
Then on the fourteenth, Iran Iraq war kicks off people,
or Iran Israel war kicks off people, forget that. On
the fourteenth, when missiles start flying, everything kind of went
into this hold. We didn't know if we were going
to continue. We didn't know if we were going to
be allowed to go back into Gaza, we didn't know
if the contract was continue. Everything went on hold. Safe

(01:59:09):
Each Solutions through UG Solutions said while we're all waiting here,
we want you to work for us. We're going to
continue to pay you. We're going to continue to pay
for your hotel, We're going to continue to pay for
all your expenses. And then at the point when I
said I'm done. On the twenty second of June in
Israeli or excuse me, in Iranian missile hit the hotel

(01:59:31):
next door to us and caused a lot of catties
and I was like, I'm not hanging around in Beersheva
waiting to get hit by a missile. I'm ready to
go home. They then offered to pay for everything and
then sent me this nicely worded letter asking me to
consider working for them again. Their position of that I'm
disgruntled is to discredit me by making think that I

(01:59:53):
have this vendetta against GHF or UG solutions. I don't
have a vendetta against GHF or UG solutions. For them
to say that I'm disgruntled, I will agree with that genocide,
the murdering of children, starving people disgruntles me. It absolutely does.
I'm disgruntled at the fact that they've taken what could

(02:00:14):
be a good mission in feeding people and have chosen
to do it in a way that's just simply leading
to the forced displacement of an entire population. Four The
discussion of the sites where the sites are located four
hundred sites versus three sites. What chape and faded failed
to mension is that out of their four sites, the

(02:00:35):
one in central Gaza that's now shut down means that
the only existing sites, the two that exist are all
the way in the south to the furthest possible part
of the south you can get to. And that diagram
of the resort. And I have a photo that I'm
going to share with you all after this because it's
breaking on another outlet, but I will provide it to you.

(02:00:57):
There is a picture of the UG Solutions contractors on
site in a big group photo with a sign that
says Gaza Lago Trump twenty twenty eight, and they're all
on the site. The picture that the Boston Consulting Group
BCG's picture of what the resort will look like, the riviera,

(02:01:20):
the resort, the Elon Musk Technical Park, the innovation center.
In this beautiful rendering of a future future Gaza. That
thing is printed in about a thirty six by twenty
poster size and is on the wall of the operation
center at Safe Reach Solutions, the operation center that runs
operations into Gaza. They know exactly what this is about.

Speaker 4 (02:01:45):
Yeah, please do, Senate.

Speaker 2 (02:01:46):
And by the way, BCG has distanced themselves from the
alls activity.

Speaker 4 (02:01:51):
So we'll just put that out there.

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
I want to give you some of the specifics of
what GHF is asserting against you, some of the additional specifics.
They say, on teenth you were informed your contract was terminated.
They say you were removed from Gaza at that point
in state in Israel, while your movement back to the
US was coordinated. They say you then immediately requested your
job back. On June fourteenth, they say that you wrote

(02:02:14):
to leadership asked them to quote reconsider, and offered that
you would quote work in any capacity. On June fifteenth,
they say, you demanded we need to work something out
for me to sign a new contract. And then they
say you proposed multiple courses of action to continue your
work for the foundation's subcontractor in a different capacity.

Speaker 8 (02:02:33):
Yes, the conversation about the new contract. So is it
a fact that my contract with UG Solutions as an
independent contractor in the position of joint taxle Operations team
leader and director of Operations, was that contract terminated. That's
a fact. On the thirteenth of June, I rendered my resignation.

(02:02:54):
I terminated my contract period.

Speaker 5 (02:02:57):
I have that.

Speaker 8 (02:02:58):
I have that documentation. UG Solutions never serviced me with
any type of termination or you're terminated or this and
that or whatever, and if they did, please please UG Solutions,
if you fired me, please provide me with the documentation.
I would love to have the documentation that you fired me.

(02:03:19):
They refuse to provide it. They don't have it because
they didn't terminate me the contract. Talking about resigning a
new contract was a conversation between myself Kevin Sullivan, say
for each Solutions Operations director, because they they asked me
to reconsider, and I told them my clear conditions for
reconsidering would be one. The current person in charge of

(02:03:41):
the contract in country, mister Johnny Taz Moulford, who is
the national Chapter president of the Infidel's Motorcycle Club, needs
to go. If you want me to stay and continue
to be a part of this operation. We cannot have
an individual that proclaims to fight jihad and to annihilate
all muscles on earth be in charge of distributing food

(02:04:03):
into GASA. He needs to go. The quote or the
statement about your being held hostage was my statement to
UG Solutions because their response to me was that we
can't fire Molford. Half the people here he hired if
we fire him, they'll go too. They're right, because everyone

(02:04:25):
he hired are chapter members of the Infidel's Motorcycle Club.
They're being held hostage by the leader of a motorcycle club.
So when I gave them my conditions that I will
stay and I will be in charge of the sites,
I will dictate in terms of, you know, from an
operations perspective, how much aid we deliver, that we are

(02:04:46):
going to start delivering water, that we will have a
rules of engagement, that there will be a standard operating
procedures for how we do distribution. Under the condition that
Johnny Moulford leaves. Well, no, we can't have that, can't
have that happen, can't get rid of him. So that
my position on that was, like, you know, you offered

(02:05:07):
me to stay, you offered me in writing to stay
and work for you, and I've given you my conditions
and you're unwilling to meet them, then I'm not going
to stay here. I'm not going to work for Safe
Rey Solutions or UG Solutions or the GHF if they're
going to continue with a with at the time seemed
to me ignorance and incompetence.

Speaker 6 (02:05:28):
Do you still have those messages. Oh yeah, said absolue
that you can share.

Speaker 8 (02:05:33):
Yes, email email June sixteenth, I sent a very long
email describing exactly that to the leadership. Said, Hey, here's
my conditions, the signal messages, all of the things that
they have. Mind you, GHF has all of this, and
in their little twenty nine July and then for August

(02:05:54):
presser they provide none of it. They have it, but
I will gladly provide that as well.

Speaker 5 (02:05:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:05:59):
I know you went over a lot of this with
crystalin Sager earlier. But yeah, any anything, an additional that
you have I think would be valuable context as this
few deepens.

Speaker 8 (02:06:10):
Yeah, my position on it is that you know, many
many may have seen and I think moments I mean
not moments, but probably an hour before it happened. I talked,
I talked to you Ryan there in the studio when
I went to protest Congress. I don't have a a
feud or an interest in Gods of Humanitarian Foundation or

(02:06:33):
UG solutions or safety solutions. My concerns are that the
United States government is funding a program through a private contractor,
mind you, a private contractor where there's no impunity and
no oversight for the United States government. But we've given
them thirty million dollars to be a part of what

(02:06:55):
is clearly clearly a part of the the displacement plan
of the population of Gaza as as the IDF attack
north from the nets are in. They're doing it right now,
Operation Gideon's Chariots two. The bombing that right now in
northern Gaza, Phase one alpha of phase three in the

(02:07:19):
operation of clearing Gaza City is to destroy every high
rise structure. It's exactly what they're doing as all of
the people that are that are being displaced out of
the north, there's nowhere for them to go. There's nowhere,
there's no encampments left in central Gaza, there's nowhere left

(02:07:42):
for them to live. So they are all being forced
down the coastal corridor, a twenty kilometer forced march, a
death march, if you will, down to the south to
be received by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation to be put
in these encampments. And these encampments have no running water
and no electricity city and have no protections from the environment.

(02:08:03):
They aren't run by anyone from the United Nations that
has any expertise in how to run an in displaced
person's camp. And not only are these in displaced persons,
this one in displaced person's camp, not in locations where
these people live. It's completely in the south. So now

(02:08:24):
the entire population of Gaza is being concentrated in the
south into an encampment, and that encampment is being guarded
and run by the GHF. The United States government, the
United States Congress cannot allow one what is happening at
all in Gaza with the war and how it's being fought,

(02:08:46):
this is no longer a war. Two that we are
directly involved, that American taxpayers money is directly involved in
the displacement scheme to displace the entire population. And this
is not something that is for us to consider weeks
or months from now. They are doing this every day.

(02:09:09):
They will have before the eighteenth of September, when the
one year edict for them to stop what they're doing.
Based on what the ICJ is put in place, there
won't be anything to go back and hold anybody accountable for,
because it'll all be gone by the twenty third of September,

(02:09:30):
the day that the UN has established to be the day,
the Palestinian Day, where Western leaders will stand at the
podium and say we recognize a Palestinian state. Israel is
already banking on the fact that there's not going to
be a Palestinian state to recognize. And the Gods of
Humanitarian Foundation is the executor of that real estate, if

(02:09:54):
you will. The Gods of Humanitarian Foundation, that is this
cloak and dagger American conglomerate led by a Christian Zionist,
is who the United States government is giving tax dollars to.
We're we're so complicit in this. It's so dirty. And anybody,

(02:10:15):
I think anybody out there can take five minutes and
listen to a GHF press conference and realize that they're
getting sold a bunch of lies.

Speaker 6 (02:10:27):
And if they want to take a listen to the
hour long interview that we did with as you said,
mister Chape and Fay, which you know, we'll put a
link to that. If you're watching this on YouTube, put
a link to that under this.

Speaker 2 (02:10:38):
We'll actually, I think we're going to package it all
together so that people have his interview and your interview
all in one piece. And Anthony, we thank you very
much once again for your time today.

Speaker 8 (02:10:49):
Thank you both. I appreciate everything you do. And I
hope I hope that in the future, mister Chapin fan
the GHF would like to have a joint conversation. I
would I would love that. I think there would be
a lot of value in that. And I think that
Americans need to be concerned in thinking that a that
a humanitarian organization is conducting rescue missions and biometrics in

(02:11:10):
Gaza as tourists. That's concerning.

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
Yeah, thank you again, Anthony, and we'll speak with you
again soon.

Speaker 8 (02:11:19):
Thank you. You all have a great day, all right.

Speaker 2 (02:11:21):
Guys, thank you so much for sitting through both of
those interviews. You can hear what Chape and Fay had
to say, you can hear what Anthony had to say
about both of their claims altogether, and you know, take
it in context also with the news that we cover
on this show and that you guys are consuming every
single day. So thank you so much for those of
you who support the show and give us the opportunity
to do these type of long form interviews. If you
can become a subscriber, Breakingpoints dot Com helps us support

(02:11:45):
our journalism. Here, Ryan any lasts us from you.

Speaker 6 (02:11:49):
No, that was interesting back and forth, and you know,
I hope. It's true that what Shape and Fay says
that they actually support allowing a flood of humanitarian aid
and allowing you and other humanitarian aid groups back in
to have him effectively saying that on the record cuts

(02:12:10):
against you know, what they've been arguing, you know, cut
cuts against what Israel has been arguing in the ceasefire negotiations,
which dropsight actually just just right now published exclusively this
the hundred word ceasefire proposal that Trump has and Trump

(02:12:31):
has made that we're told that Israel is supportive of that.
You can you can check that out, but basically saying
sixty day pause, the all hostages and prisoners released, you know,
within the within the first day or so, some agreed
upon number of Palestinians would be released, and that Trump
himself would guarantee the next you know, would guarantee that

(02:12:53):
the ceasefire would hold while while both parties negotiated in
good faith toward a long term ceasefire. And one of
the critical sources of disagreement is the role of GHF
and the role of you and other humanitarian aid works
in getting aid into kazasof It's true that Chape and
Fay as the spokesperson for GHF is saying that they
are willing to step aside, then I don't understand how

(02:13:16):
the United States and Israel can continue to demand that
they stay if they're willing to go.

Speaker 2 (02:13:21):
Yeah, very very interesting. I think a lot came out
of that conversation. To be parted, Ryan, thank you, Thank
you guys so much for watching soccer, and I will
be back with a normal, typical breaking point show tomorrow,
so that will see you then,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}9/8/25: GHF Spox Vs 'Whistleblower': Amir ALIVE?, Aid 'Massacres', 'Gaza Riviera'

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

All Episodes

9/8/25: GHF Spox Vs 'Whistleblower': Amir ALIVE?, Aid 'Massacres', 'Gaza Riviera'

24/7 News: The Latest