June 13, 2024 • 46 mins
Part two of Bridgerton season 3 is here, bringing with it some bombshell revelations. Host Gabi Collins sits down with the actor who embodies Eloise, Claudia Jessie, to look behind the curtain on Eloise’s huge character moments in this episode – including her engagement party ultimatum. Plus, showrunner Jess Brownell rejoins the show to talk about everything from the long-awaited mirror scene to Cressida’s jaw-dropping announcement.
Binge part two of Bridgerton Season 3 on Netflix now to better enjoy all the tea with us every week!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland in
partnership with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your
exclusive peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. I'm
your host, Gabrielle Collins, bona Fide Pollen Stan and your
(00:24):
guide through Season three, Part.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Two is here at long last and Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Today we're talking about the show stopping opener to Part two.
If you haven't watched it yet, episode five, or honestly,
any of Part two, go watch it right now. It's
out now on Netflix and join us back here for
all the juicy behind the scenes insights. This episode was
(00:56):
a massive status quo changer with some huge character moment,
so we're bringing back the incredible showrunner Jess Brown now
to break it all down. Plus we've got the brilliant
actress Claudia Jesse who plays the one and only Eloise.
Before we hear from them, let's recap episode five TikTok,
(01:19):
Penelope and Colin announced they're engaged and all but Eloise
Sharon mclee alone. Eloise tells penn that until Colin knows
who she really is, he cannot possibly love her, Penn
promises to come clean. Meanwhile, Cresita's mother has arranged a
marriage for her with a man old enough to be
her great grandfather. She hatches an escape plan that will
(01:43):
shock the ton. Our lovebirds dash off to their future home,
and we have maybe our most beautiful pollen moment yet.
They gaze into the mirror and Colin affirms his love
for his fiance, trying to help Penn see her worth.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You are the cleverest, bravest woman I've ever known. You
make me feel seen in ways I've never felt seen before.
And then there's the way you have cascades down your.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Shoulder, And who can forget what happens next? Colin disrobes
his beloved and they make love for the first time
on the chase lounge. The next day, Penn's planned to
tell Colin she's Lady Whistledown gets thwarted when the Queen
(02:36):
announces a hepty reward for whoever knows the true identity
of the gossip monger. Kate throws a smashing engagement party
for the happy couple, and Eloise makes it clear she
is not he had to play games. She gives Penelope
an ultimatum tell Colin the truth by midnight, or she will.
(03:04):
But when the clock runs out, it's Cressida who beats
everyone to the punch with her own announcement.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
You would like to know who Lady Whistledown is? You
shall know. I am she.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I have to say my jaw dropped when I saw
all of this play out. The final scene at the
party is so tense, and the huge part of that
tension was Eloise. Her arc makes strides in this episode
as she grapples with yet another secret pen kept from
her and whether or not to reveal pen secret to
(03:44):
her brother. Hey, Claudia, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I know feel very happy to be back.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well, what stuck out to you most of your experience
this time around? Bringing us ellerwe Is Bridgerton once again.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
I think we've all been really looking forward to the
day that Luke Newton and Nicola Coughlan get to sort
of hold the torch for a bit. It was just exciting.
I think that's that's what I think still stuck with me,
just the sense of pride. Obviously we've known each other
since yeah, twenty nineteen, early twenty nineteen, and they're like,
(04:32):
we're family. You know, because Nichola and Luke have both
been in it since day one.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It also is exciting to see all of you bring
that kind of family vibe to the screen. You can,
it feels so natural. Do you think that Ellowee's surprised
you at all this season? Like, was there anything about
her character, that character that surprised you?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:55):
I mean when I first saw the scripts and heard about,
you know, the fact that Eloise has made a new friend,
and that a friend is someone she said she'd rather
die than beer around. There was a time where she
she would have chosen death, and now she's like you know,
Besie's and then she's ended up having this really unlikely
(05:19):
friendship with someone. But that's what I do love about Bridgin,
And I think it's clever because it shows another side
to Cressida, and you know, we're all capable of all
sorts of things, and you know, yeah, there's a there's
been a spikiness with with Cresida, but you sort of
come to understand where that's emerged from. You know, I've
spent this time with Eloise unsubscribing from the ettica, you know,
(05:42):
I mean, unsubscribing from the what's around and then now
I've got a sort of subscribe again. Well I've never
had never subscribed before, but I've got kind of got
to be in with it. But I don't think Eloise
is capable of doing it completely like other young women
that she sees do with you know this like bizarre rich.
So yeah, Also that was fun for me because I
(06:02):
get to be at more of the balls, which.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Is nice because I do enjoyed it in them.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
If you were at more of the balls, just type around.
I'm one of those people who love Eloise and I
feel sad for Eloise. Do you feel like that's going
to be the reaction of most of the audience.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I think so, because I think even there was a
part of me that was like, oh, oh gosh, Like
I think it's very clever. I think people will be
satisfied with Eloise's story throughout the entirety of season three.
I think they'll be very pleased with where Eloise ends up.
(06:43):
And so I think Eloise is always going to be Eloise,
even if you put her, if you try and fit
her in a different box. So I think I think
the audience will feel content that They'll feel maybe unnerved,
but content that Eloisa is who she is. She's still
rolling her eyes, she's still annoyed, She's still yeah funny,
(07:05):
she certainly is.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Let's talk about episode five. The episode starts with the revelation,
and that's that Penelope and Colin are engaged. It's kind
of like a whirlwind. What we see is Penelope is
almost in like a dream state of like disbelief and being.
Announcement is made and everyone's happy embracing the happy couple,
(07:28):
except for Eloise. She's not happy about it. She storms
off and she even tells Penelope to tell Colin about
her identity as Lady Whistledownluise.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Does he know?
Speaker 6 (07:42):
But you always wi not know?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Please Louise, please do not tell him. Colin is not
like Lord Depling. He will be gone for years at
a time.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
He will find out and until he knows.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
The real you, he cannot possibly love you.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I would love if you could to tell us how
you interpreted that whole scene. Why I And I also
just I just need to understand why Elouise reacted like that.
I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Really, did you think she should embrace her?
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Well?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I be like I think that I still haven't gotten
over understanding how a lifelong friendship could begin to dissolve
or be suspended over the revelation that Penelope has whistledown.
I can't get over that part. Oh wow, and that's perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I lost it.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I don't get it.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
I think, okay, I'm almost going to do this in
an answer to try and get you to maybe see
to understand. I think she's humiliated. I think it's more
she's deeply, deeply embarrassed. We've watched Ellowise for two seasons
try to uncover who Lady Whistledown is, and Lady Whistledown
(09:05):
has been watching her do it trying to stop her.
That's really embarrassing, really embarrassing. She's been in accasions with
the Queen. That's big deal. And it would be over
here if we'd be massive if I was then with
the king, because I was in trouble.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Big deal.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
She's written about her brother, more than one brother. She's
written about Eloise. She outed her for hanging around with
like a lower class printer boy. And now without any
knowledge before she's walked in engaged to her brother that
(09:44):
she has been writing about, and Eloise hasn't been told anything,
and her brother still doesn't know, and her brother wants
to like end Lady Whistledown as well, because he's still
furious about what happened with Lady Crane and what happened
with Eloise and about what you know, he's still furious about.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That he wants.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
So I think she's infuriated that her friend. I think
she's humiliated and she's flabbergasted that her former best friend
can walk in and just be like, we're just getting engaged.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Okay, so who are you? You're like, who are you?
I thought I know you, I do not know you.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
Yeah, So the stuff with the brother, I understand that,
because even that, I understand how that can feel like
all right, like the Whistledown stuff. Sure, but you can't
just get mad because you know you were too blind
to see that your best friend was in love with
your brother, Because that's Eloise is bad.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Anyone would have been able to know.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Like, So I do get that, But I think Eloise
is almost using you know, when you I don't know,
if you're frustrated about something, you you should maybe pick
on a smaller thing to embolden you. I think she's
sort of using that now as a thing being like,
and now you're going to be having a jolly old
(11:06):
time with mubbig bro. Also, it's her first time to
really explode for the whole of the summer that they've
not spoken to each other. And and Eloise is probably
being a little bit stubborn. But I love that you're
just like, no, deal with it, this is fine.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I can I can see. I guess I'm also just
like Elie. I mean, I guess you know what, you know,
You're right, You're right. I guess I was also just
thinking of it as like Eloise could have been like, yes, girl,
you make that money, tell these stories. Let me give
you some other hat tips to include good, but there
(11:46):
is that embarrassment and I you're right.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
You're right, But I think you're right, though there is
an another world where absolutely your version is correct, where
Eloise would have been like Wow, she would have been
so happy about it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
She was so infatuated with Lady whistled out.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
She was in love, totally in love.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
And I think if Penelope hadn't written about Eloise and
tried to manipulate Eloise into stopping everything with the printer boy,
Eloise would have been happy for Penelope.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Forget about the printed boy party. It's a thorn in
mass hat.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
We'll be right back after the break. We're back with
more bridgeton the official podcast. You are going toe to
toe with your good friend in real life. What was
it like for you and Nicola to work on those
(12:47):
really emotionally tough scenes.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Mostly it just felt unusual because seasons one and two,
all of our scenes were basically together, Like the eight
percent of our scenes are always together. We're always together,
always together. I'm always yanking her out of rooms. It
seems that I'm just always pulling her out of rooms.
And so what felt that most odd is that we
(13:12):
just weren't together. So actually we probably just enjoyed the
chance to be together in a scene, even if it
was me being like you're with But yeah, it mostly
felt odd that we were just we were spending so
much time apart on set.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I want to know what you think about Eloise trying
to give Penelope and the ultimate I'm if.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
It proves too difficult for you to reveal the truth,
I will be merciful and ability myself.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
You haven't till midnight. I guess it is.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
It is Penelope's responsibility. It's not Eloise's eloisas it's heartbroken.
She doesn't, she's upset about it. I do love that though,
because also as an actor, it's always fun to be like,
you have until midnight, Like you want to say lines
like that. That's slight proper like movie stuff, isn't it.
You've got un til mid my mate. So that's always
(14:04):
fun as an actor to be able to say that.
I like the mix up of it all. Firstly, like
from a TV perspective, there's nothing more fun than the
audience knowing something that none of the characters know. That's
always the best place to be. It's always the most
fun because then you're like, why can't you just say it?
And then next to that was the only other thing
(14:25):
that's fun after that is being alongside one character who knows.
So everybody knows Elouise knows. So there's this amazing, beautiful
tension of like when is it going to be revealed?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You know?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
But I think Elowise is actually I think she's doing
the right thing to be like Colin needs to know,
it's going to find out at some.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Point, doesn't need to know?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Do you don't think he does? You're like, get married
then tell.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
N get married, have some blise and then one day
over tea by the way, I think, yeah, I think
I was definitely the part of the audience that was like,
just let this be what it is right now and
we will figure it out. I was genuinely happy that
(15:10):
it was happening for them, for the for color a Penelope.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, I think Eloise is like just seriously.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
So so upset or the world's greatest cock block.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
That's what I'm saying. And I was wondering, that's what
you think. But I'm like, Eloise, sit down, just shut up.
Bringing it back to so okay, to the chart scene,
which is clever. It's symbolic, and Eloise and Penelope are
(15:44):
almost sparring.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
My first is a contraction for society. My second notes
are recluse. My third forms a part.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Of the here.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
My whole is but a quibbled something none, yes, no work.
Is it not a conundrum?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
First?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I would venture four, My second I would venture in.
My whole is more talked of than practice dwelling.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
Perhaps no venture four?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Venture in It is friendship, is it not?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Just participating games.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
There is a history between these two.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Perhaps it will finally be settled.
Speaker 8 (16:29):
It's not the same as how we think of charades
today now, it's not at all. I was a little
lost the first or yes, so away, so away babe,
we were what is this? So you you all didn't
really know about this this former form of charades while
you were reading the script?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Did you all have to like learn it? Was it fun? Like?
Did you try to do your own actual version of
charades like that?
Speaker 7 (16:58):
As?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
It's so riddle heavy, isn't it. It's so riddle heavy
because I remember there being like my half is this,
my half is this, and my whole is this?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Like it's things like that, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
It's like if my blah blah is this, then my
blah And we did have a lot of fun because
also anytime where there's loads of us together, we're all
like rattling, we're so like buzzing, and like we're knackered
by the records to midday, we're like so tired because we're.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Just all the energy.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
We're like I loved doing that scene. I loved it
so much. I thought it was so funny. All of
us were giggling loads. Also, Johnny's in there. Anthony Bridgeton
he's there, isn't he? Because I remember me and him
laughing a lot together. And also I do love the
borderline sitcom way that it's been structured between Penelope and
(17:50):
Ellowise in this thing. It's so also like I'm the
first and foremost comedian, like my heart is comedy.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Like that is where I.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Sit most comfortable, and stuff like that. For me, it's like,
I love.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
It so much.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
Again, it sort of takes a pinch pinch of the
fury out of it a bit as well, because it's
so funny, which I enjoy.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I love it. I loved filming those scenes. We were
crying with laughter a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Were there any other moments for you that were comical
that you really I mean you said, it's been a
while now, but any of that stand out for you.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
One of my favorite things I've seen so far it
must be episode three with a balloon. There's this sort
of mad like quartet of the law and then the
three girls, and then when Eloisa like that, you know,
the great orc does not fly like all of that
sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I love all of that, love that love anything comedy wise.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
There's also at the end of episode one, I was
really pleased because this year I got this season, I
got to do a lot with loop Nuts, which beautiful
because sometimes a lot of the time, because there's so
many of us, there's times where you'll be like, I
don't think I've.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Ever spoken to this sibling.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Like in a scene you realize you're like, no, I've
never spoken to Johnny.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
But like, it was.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Really nice for me and lout Newton to get so
much to do together. And right at the end of
episode one, elouis just reading Lady Whistledown and then she's like.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Brother would have been and he said, no, what you're
reading nothing?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
I love that's that's like yummy comedy, just cute, light tickley,
sort of funny.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I love it. I love that this. I love that
Bridgeton's so funny.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
The way the Bridgerton's siblings are so like like right
on top of each other with the lines. I'm like,
are you rehearsing it like that? It has? Is that
time rehearsing it going over it that brings that really
natural sibling like banter to the forefront or like by
(19:56):
at this point, is it just kind of like in
you all just that this is what it is. It's
so I just I just love how quick it is.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
That's Shonderland, thank you, that's shonder that's that is fully
shonder because I think a lot of British produced period
pieces are a lot of pauses here and they're sort
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And I can get it can get a bit dry,
can't it. Let's dry, so I do.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
I loved that it was sort of this like madly
just brilliantly paced period piece that's so clever. Luckily, I
decided that I wanted Eloise to speak at the sound
of light. I just wanted her to speak fast, move like,
move like you know, limmy, be quite limmy, and I
(20:48):
wanted all of those things that it's great, it's great,
it works.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
But don't get me wrong.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
When we come back to work, there's like a week
where we've got to feel like we're putting in new
teeth and we're like getting back into the language of it.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
So that's fine, that's fun because we we'll get there.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
It will take us a couple of days something like that.
But I think in terms of the Bridgetons being together,
we do have like a performative shorthand with each other now,
like we're very comfortable around each other. We love each
other a great deal. Like the Bridgeton family are very
very close. It's beautiful being on set with them.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Quadia, Jesse May, I love speaking to you.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I love speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Lovely.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
We'll be back after the break to sit down with
showrunner Jess Brownew to talk about some of the jar
dropping twists from this episode. Welcome back, Okay. So many
new threads are introduced in this episode, Penn and Colin's intimacy,
(21:54):
Eloise's ultimatum, Cressida's bombshell lie so to tease some of
these apart, I chatted with showrunner Jess Brownew. We talked
about the character beats at episode five and the decision
to change some details from the original source material. Jess,
(22:16):
welcome back once again.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
We need to get into episode five. I feel though
the way it shot is so is so spot on
with how I personally felt. I was just like, what
is happening? The move the room is moving. I think
I was still still yelling. I mean I was actually
(22:42):
yelling at the end of episode four, like what so
it was gone? So episode five I am. I feel
like I'm in the same headspace with Penelope. The secrecy
and the tension between Netlpe, Eloise, and Colin also reaches
(23:05):
its height this episode. We see in the first few
moments everyone's embracing Penelope. They're so happy about this engagement announcement,
but Eloise is not storms off. Why was that moment
the moment for Eloise to stop our feet and walk away?
Speaker 7 (23:24):
So, first of all, I just want to say what
you're talking about of like feeling like you're in the
room and your head is spinning the way it's shot,
that was very much something we baked into the script
to the writing like it was described. I think as
you know, feeling like it's a dream, feeling like you're
on a boat, feeling like you're underwater. Azy a squire
(23:44):
who wrote this episode did a fantastic job. And you know,
it is also that feeling of Wow, what a dream.
And then you wake up and there's that record scratch
moment where suddenly, oh, yeah, there's Eloise and oh yeah,
she doesn't know that we have been secretly having a
(24:05):
crush on each other and that's my sister Slash, that's
my best friend.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Oh that's awkward.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
And so I think it was important for us to
set up that tension at the very top of the episode,
because that is really the tension that's going to take
us through the back half of the season. It's narratively
something that was useful for us. Having this secret of
Whistledown hanging over our main couple in many ways allows
(24:34):
us to enjoy the romance between Colin and Penelope without
having to create extraneous drama directly between the two of them.
There's this whole other thing, this freight train that we
know is on a collision course with their coupling. So
that's something we're speeding towards as we head on for
(24:55):
the finale.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I spoke with Claudia and she very much loved being
able to sink her teeth into all of that. Jess,
did you have an opportunity to talk with Claudia about
what was going on and tell me about that.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Yeah, I mean Claudia is such a fantastic person an
actor and always game for anything, truly. She loves playing
Eloise and she loves Bridgerton, and I think she was
really excited to portray Eloise in a new light, you know,
(25:34):
starting with the first part of the season, getting to
pair up with Cressida, which is just a totally different
vibe for the character, and then going head to head
with Penelope was also, I think an exciting challenge. I
think it was difficult for the two of them because
Nikola and Claudia like each other so much, so to
(25:56):
play it was funny. They would be on set playing
all this drama and angst and then you know, the
director would yell cut and they go, oh, I'm so sorry,
give each other a big hug.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
I'm not really mad at you. So she was game, she.
Speaker 7 (26:11):
Was game, but but yeah, it was a bit of
a funny transition.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Claudia loved the idea of the countdown to midnight. This
episode is beautifully titled TikTok.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
Right, everyone is like like the app I'm like, no, Like,
remember clocks Before we had digital clocks, there.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Were hands short songs.
Speaker 7 (26:34):
Yeah. I know most of us kind of including myself,
don't really know how to read those anymore. But yeah, yeah,
I mean, I will say there was an earlier version
of Eloise this season, just I think when we were
breaking the very first episode, a version of Eloise who
was a lot more antagonistic towards Penelope, who was just
(26:55):
straight up, like getting in her business, like really at
her and kind of coming for her. And ultimately, when
we it only was in a draft of an outline,
but we decided internally that it just didn't feel like
the show and it didn't feel like Eloise. And so
(27:16):
I actually think Eloise has been pretty chill this season,
considering what Penelope wrote about her last year, like, you know,
if I were Eloise, if I were that age and
you know my best friend had screwed me over in
that way and written about me, I might be more upset.
(27:37):
And I think that Eloise has, other than going off
and palaying around with Cressida in the first half of
the season, she's pretty much stayed out of Penelope's way
and let her do her thing. You know, she hasn't
tried to tell her secret to anyone, and so I
think Eloise is probably feeling like geez, like I gave
you this bandwidth and I let you do your thing.
(28:00):
You know, I gave you, I showed you grace, and
now you snuck around behind my back and are getting
together with my brother under false pretenses.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
And she gives her.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
The opportunity early in the episode to be like I'm
going to let you tell him on your own terms,
which Penelope requests. And then when Penelope doesn't do it, Yeah,
it's her engagement party. It's not that nice, but I
get it, you know. I think internally we all felt
like it made sense for her to come for Penelope
(28:33):
at that moment, and you know, it was a great
setting for it too. Engagement party charades all.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I loved the charades, Jess. That was so fun, so witty.
Speaker 7 (28:44):
The charades came from Asia, who wrote this episode, and
our first week of the room, we always spend that
first week blue skying.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Each writer gets.
Speaker 7 (28:55):
You know, a presentation time to talk about what set
piece is do you want to see this season? You know,
what characters are you most excited about, what dynamic do
you want to see more of or less of?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Anything?
Speaker 7 (29:10):
And something that Asya brought up on like day one
or two was that she really thought it'd be fun
to do a game night. I think she's someone like
many of us who has game nights. She's like Regency
game Night, Let's do it. And we kept looking for
moments to do it. And then when we got to
this episode and there was all this tension simmering between
Penelope and Eloise.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
We were like, oh damn, this is the.
Speaker 7 (29:34):
Moment because these two going head to head on like
a thinky game like regency charades, which is a little
different from contemporary charades.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
We kind of had to like explain it in.
Speaker 7 (29:45):
The show because I knew people would be like, well,
but it's a great moment, I think, to underscore their connection,
but also the competition and tension that's going on between them.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
And then of course we have the Queen and Lady
Danbury take a.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Seat and enjoy this momentous day with me.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
What is it that we are celebrating the demise of
Lady whistle doown?
Speaker 4 (30:09):
She's undefended. Now is the time to strike?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
And what is your plan? Your majesty, it is already done.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
If there was one thing you could really just pick
out from that moment between the two of them, what
do we as viewers learn about their about their relationship
and what they're like plotting to do their dynamic altogether?
Speaker 7 (30:39):
Yeah, well, I think having Queen Charlotte the spinoff series
gave me a lot to work with, which I'm really
grateful to Shonda for she created this incredibly rich backstory
for the Queen and Lady dan Barry, and knowing that
they go as far back as they do now and
(30:59):
that I have this almost family relationship, it got a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
More interesting to write that connection this year.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
I think Lady dan Barry knows the Queen better than
she knows herself in certain ways. And there's that moment
in the chess game where Dan Barry makes the point
that why put an end to the game when you
can keep playing? And I think she knows that for
the Queen. Even though the Queen makes a lot of
(31:30):
noise about hating whistle Down and that whistle Bottom lady,
why is she always getting in my business? Et cetera,
she knows that this is entertainment for her and that
it brings her a certain amount of joy.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
She also knows that the Queen.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
I think Dan Barry is maybe starting to suspect who
whistled Down is. I don't think she knows it's Penelope,
but I think she's a smart cookie, and I think
she realizes it's probably a debutante who is clutching at
a little slice of power, because she herself knew what
(32:08):
it was like to be powerless as a debutante and
to be voiceless as a debutante, as a married young woman,
et cetera. And because she knows that that's probably the case,
I think she's starting to want to convince the Queen
to give this writer some grace.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
So in episode five we also get a huge scene
for fans of the book and just a really great
pollen moment overall. Can you break down the mirror scene
for us and how did you approach it?
Speaker 7 (32:40):
So the mirror scene in episode five is really pure
fan service because the truth of the matter is that
the mirror scene does not exist in the books. The
mirror scene is referenced in the books. It's basically calling saying, boy,
(33:02):
wouldn't I love to do something very sexy x y
Z with you in the mirror and she's titilated by
the idea and then it never happens. They never get
to it. But the fans have run with this and
have gone, gosh, that mirror scene, that'd be fun to see.
And we were aware that there was that excitement around
(33:23):
the scene and wanted to create it in our reality.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
So that you know it could come true.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
It is a little bit well, it's obviously different because
it's not real in the book, but we wanted to
honor some of the some of the suggestions that are
made in the book, which I'm going to leave people
to look up themselves, but some of the sexy suggestions
Colin makes in the in the book scene, we wanted
(33:49):
to see some of that happen. But also mirrors became
a central motif for us this season. It may have
started with, oh yeah, let's do the mirror scene, but
in talking about it in the room, we realized that
a mirror is a perfect metaphor for a lot of
what we're talking about this year, which is two selves.
(34:11):
There's the self you show to the world, aka the
self that you see in the mirror, which is your
outer self, your persona, and then there is the private self,
who is the person standing on the other side of
the mirror who might be very different from the person
in the mirror. So Penelope presents one side to the
world and then she's a totally other person on the inside,
(34:34):
as is Colin, and both of them are having to
figure out this season how to merge the mirror self
with the real self, and so you'll see mirrors actually
spotting up all over the season in almost every episode, there's.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Something mirrory, mirrory. I've never said the word mirror. So
many mirror So yeah.
Speaker 7 (35:00):
It's become pretty key to the season in a lot
of ways, and it's why we've used the mirror motif
in the marketing campaign for the season. It's not just
about the sexy moment, it's about the bigger theme that
we're using there.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
That's amazing, That is amazing. Okay, what movements, emotions, or
other factors were you taking into consideration when figuring out
how to convey Penelope and Collin's emotional connection is heating up?
Speaker 7 (35:35):
I mean, I think for us, we talk a lot
about how important storytelling is in the intimacy scenes. You know,
we want we're always mindful of starting from a place
of story so that we don't get into the zone
of it being gratuitous. I mean, it's a sexy show,
of course, but we want to ground the intimate scenes
(35:57):
in character development. And so with Helbie, for example, you
see you know, Colin facing her towards the mirror, which
obviously metaphorically and literally is about her facing herself, and
he's talking to her about you know, what he sees
and how he wants her to see all these things
(36:18):
about herself as well, her beauty, her kindness, you know,
her cleverness, all the things he loves about her. And
there's this moment where he undresses her, which metaphorically, of course,
being naked is representative of being vulnerable, being raw. And
at first, when she's nude in front of him, she's
(36:39):
covering herself up, which is very much the way she
operates in the world.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
She hides.
Speaker 7 (36:45):
And then as they begin to make love, you know,
Colin is encouraging her by you know, helping her to
understand how beautiful of a person she is, and she's
able to uncover herself and show herself to him. And
in fact, she really takes a lot of agency in
that scene by saying, teach me, tell me what to do,
(37:08):
like I want to do stuff. You know, she doesn't
want to be a passive pillow princess. She wants to
be an active participant in this moment. And I think
that's big for Penelope to be brave enough to say no,
like give me, give me a hand in what's going
on here, and Colin allows that and then kind of
(37:29):
meets her halfway. And I would say the most important
moment of the scene to me is the laughter that
follows it. We haven't had that in any of our
intimacy scenes in this show. You know, Daphne and Simon
and Kate and Anthony. Daphnie and Simon were you know,
friend lee, but they didn't have that depth of knowing
(37:51):
each other before they got together. It was more about
torture and burning for each other. And then with Kate
and Anthony it was all longing and torture, more torture,
and with these two they just love each other deeply
in a friendship way and now you know more and
more in a romantic way. And so getting to see
(38:12):
that comfort to the point where they can laugh after
the sex and smile and be giddy. I think I
really loved getting portray that, getting to portray that on
screen because I wish that for people that they get
to have sex like that, that you know, sex gets
(38:32):
to be happy and joyful and not all torture.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
So I wonder how many people are going to put
full length mirrors in their shopping cards after.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
I say it, get it, Yes, I want that for people.
Speaker 7 (38:46):
If mirror sales go through the roof, then I'm gonna
feel really great, see your beauty, step into your light,
look at yourself in the mirror.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
For real. I love that so so much. I want
to talk more about Cressida because I think that is
a very interesting character. Cressida has this moment at the
end of the episode where she announces that she is
Lady Whistledown. It kind of shifts everything moving forward. I mean,
(39:24):
Penelope faints. That was wild. I'm also wondering if at
any point you all just were thinking, like, who else
could it be other than Cressida, Like was that a
discussion or was it always just going to be Cressida
to be like it's me, y'all.
Speaker 7 (39:41):
So the Cressida plot twist is straight out of the book.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
That is a Julia Quinn moment.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
And you know, we shifted the plot around a bit
this season, but all of the elements are really still there.
They're just not in the same order and they don't
necessarily involve the exact same lineup of people. But that
was a moment from the book that I thought played really,
really well. And you know, we've there's been this dynamic
(40:11):
between Penelope and Cressida for two seasons. We've watched her
be Penelope's mean girl. She's always been a part of
Penelope's story and it felt right to bring.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
That to a head.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
That was so great, specifically because Penelope passes out. It
was just like the wind got knocked out of her.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
I'll also say Cressida was a really exciting character in
general to write this season. I love a good mean girl,
but more than that, I love understanding why a mean
girl is a mean girl. And I feel like mean
girls are not born, they're made, and so getting to
understand why Cressida is the way she is, seeing what's
(40:58):
going on behind the scenes with her mom and her
dad and her family life, which is so in opposition
to the Bridgertons or even the Featheringtons, which.
Speaker 6 (41:08):
To turn no more than one ball per month, and
only if her sort of strong moral character I certainly
do not believe in music and modern not nowadays is
absolutely scandalous.
Speaker 7 (41:21):
That sounds delightful, do you not agree, Cressida? And also
understanding that Cressida, she's thought of herself as a queen
Bee for a little while now, but she's in her
third season out and like Penelope, she's starting to tiptoe
(41:42):
towards spinsterhood, so she's starting to think of herself in
a very different way that allows some room for reflection
and maturation and growth. So I'm excited that people are
getting to see new layers to Cressida this year, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
For sure. And just Cresita being set up by her
parents to marry someone twice her age, and some of
the visuals that we just see around Cressida and her
home life too, really do teach us about why she
is the way she is. Her circumstances really do paint
a picture for us.
Speaker 7 (42:21):
Yeah. That set design Alison Garshore did on Cresita's home
I thought was so genius. We thought of it from
the beginning as the anti Bridgerton House.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
So if Bridgerton.
Speaker 7 (42:33):
House is light and bright and the curtains are drawn open,
you know, Cressida the Cowper House is dark. And Alison
actually designed the room so that it was sort of coffin,
like like really tall and narrow, instead of being shorter
and wider, which is more cozy and comforting. So when
(42:55):
you step into that set in person, you can feel
like a sense of forebot. It was really geniusly designed.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Could you describe before we wrap a little bit of
what the mindset now between Colin and Penelope is moving
forward with kind of this. Just before midnight, Cressida announces
she's Lady whistled Down, and I mean, yeah, like, what
where are they now?
Speaker 7 (43:24):
So Penelope obviously is freaking out because this is her
life's work and even though it's brought her a lot
of strife and anxiety via her relationship with Colin and Eloise.
I think in the moment that Cressida says I am
(43:44):
Lady Whistledowns, it's difficult for her because it should be
on her terms. Who says who's whistledown and if it's
her or if it's not her, if it's someone else.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
So she's really torn.
Speaker 7 (43:59):
I think thatween her love for Colin and her love
for her alter ego. And then on Collin's side of things,
he doesn't really know what's going on, but he knows
something is up with Penelope, and he's not sure if
it's a problem with him because obviously he doesn't know
(44:20):
that there's something.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Else going on.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
So I think sending us forward into the back half
is this sense of insecurity in Colin and uncertainty about
how penn feels about him, so that's something that he
will be searching for some validation around going forward.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Jess I love talking with you. Thank you so much
for joining us again.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
So fun to be back.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Thank you for joining us on this deep dive into
the world of Bridgerton. Next week, I'm sitting down with
the Sleeve Queen herself, Jessica Ma Katson who plays Cressida,
as well as Polly Walker who plays Lady Featherington. Two
characters with a lot of secrets and drama going into
(45:11):
part two. Stay tuned Bridgerton. The official podcast is produced
by Shondaland Audio and Wonder Media Network. This show is
executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, Jenny Kaplan,
and Emily Rudder. Our producers are Sarah Schleid, Edie Allard,
(45:34):
and Carmen Borca Carrio. This episode is edited by Jenny
Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our associate producers are Lauren Williams
and Akia mcnight and I am your host, Gabrielle Collins.
If you're enjoying this show, please subscribe, share with your friends,
rate or leave us a review, and if you haven't
(45:55):
finished binging, Bridgerton on Netflix. Please go do that so
you can enjoy all the juicy spoilers with us. For
more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland in
partnership with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your
exclusive peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. I'm
your host, Gabrielle Collins, bona Fide Pollen Stan and your
(00:24):
guide through Season three, Part.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Two is here at long last and Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Today we're talking about the show stopping opener to Part two.
If you haven't watched it yet, episode five, or honestly,
any of Part two, go watch it right now. It's
out now on Netflix and join us back here for
all the juicy behind the scenes insights. This episode was
(00:56):
a massive status quo changer with some huge character moment,
so we're bringing back the incredible showrunner Jess Brown now
to break it all down. Plus we've got the brilliant
actress Claudia Jesse who plays the one and only Eloise.
Before we hear from them, let's recap episode five TikTok,
(01:19):
Penelope and Colin announced they're engaged and all but Eloise
Sharon mclee alone. Eloise tells penn that until Colin knows
who she really is, he cannot possibly love her, Penn
promises to come clean. Meanwhile, Cresita's mother has arranged a
marriage for her with a man old enough to be
her great grandfather. She hatches an escape plan that will
(01:43):
shock the ton. Our lovebirds dash off to their future home,
and we have maybe our most beautiful pollen moment yet.
They gaze into the mirror and Colin affirms his love
for his fiance, trying to help Penn see her worth.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
You are the cleverest, bravest woman I've ever known. You
make me feel seen in ways I've never felt seen before.
And then there's the way you have cascades down your.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Shoulder, And who can forget what happens next? Colin disrobes
his beloved and they make love for the first time
on the chase lounge. The next day, Penn's planned to
tell Colin she's Lady Whistledown gets thwarted when the Queen
(02:36):
announces a hepty reward for whoever knows the true identity
of the gossip monger. Kate throws a smashing engagement party
for the happy couple, and Eloise makes it clear she
is not he had to play games. She gives Penelope
an ultimatum tell Colin the truth by midnight, or she will.
(03:04):
But when the clock runs out, it's Cressida who beats
everyone to the punch with her own announcement.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
You would like to know who Lady Whistledown is? You
shall know. I am she.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I have to say my jaw dropped when I saw
all of this play out. The final scene at the
party is so tense, and the huge part of that
tension was Eloise. Her arc makes strides in this episode
as she grapples with yet another secret pen kept from
her and whether or not to reveal pen secret to
(03:44):
her brother. Hey, Claudia, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I know feel very happy to be back.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well, what stuck out to you most of your experience
this time around? Bringing us ellerwe Is Bridgerton once again.
Speaker 5 (04:07):
I think we've all been really looking forward to the
day that Luke Newton and Nicola Coughlan get to sort
of hold the torch for a bit. It was just exciting.
I think that's that's what I think still stuck with me,
just the sense of pride. Obviously we've known each other
since yeah, twenty nineteen, early twenty nineteen, and they're like,
(04:32):
we're family. You know, because Nichola and Luke have both
been in it since day one.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It also is exciting to see all of you bring
that kind of family vibe to the screen. You can,
it feels so natural. Do you think that Ellowee's surprised
you at all this season? Like, was there anything about
her character, that character that surprised you?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (04:55):
I mean when I first saw the scripts and heard about,
you know, the fact that Eloise has made a new friend,
and that a friend is someone she said she'd rather
die than beer around. There was a time where she
she would have chosen death, and now she's like you know,
Besie's and then she's ended up having this really unlikely
(05:19):
friendship with someone. But that's what I do love about Bridgin,
And I think it's clever because it shows another side
to Cressida, and you know, we're all capable of all
sorts of things, and you know, yeah, there's a there's
been a spikiness with with Cresida, but you sort of
come to understand where that's emerged from. You know, I've
spent this time with Eloise unsubscribing from the ettica, you know,
(05:42):
I mean, unsubscribing from the what's around and then now
I've got a sort of subscribe again. Well I've never
had never subscribed before, but I've got kind of got
to be in with it. But I don't think Eloise
is capable of doing it completely like other young women
that she sees do with you know this like bizarre rich.
So yeah, Also that was fun for me because I
(06:02):
get to be at more of the balls, which.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Is nice because I do enjoyed it in them.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
If you were at more of the balls, just type around.
I'm one of those people who love Eloise and I
feel sad for Eloise. Do you feel like that's going
to be the reaction of most of the audience.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I think so, because I think even there was a
part of me that was like, oh, oh gosh, Like
I think it's very clever. I think people will be
satisfied with Eloise's story throughout the entirety of season three.
I think they'll be very pleased with where Eloise ends up.
(06:43):
And so I think Eloise is always going to be Eloise,
even if you put her, if you try and fit
her in a different box. So I think I think
the audience will feel content that They'll feel maybe unnerved,
but content that Eloisa is who she is. She's still
rolling her eyes, she's still annoyed, She's still yeah funny,
(07:05):
she certainly is.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Let's talk about episode five. The episode starts with the revelation,
and that's that Penelope and Colin are engaged. It's kind
of like a whirlwind. What we see is Penelope is
almost in like a dream state of like disbelief and being.
Announcement is made and everyone's happy embracing the happy couple,
(07:28):
except for Eloise. She's not happy about it. She storms
off and she even tells Penelope to tell Colin about
her identity as Lady Whistledownluise.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Does he know?
Speaker 6 (07:42):
But you always wi not know?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Please Louise, please do not tell him. Colin is not
like Lord Depling. He will be gone for years at
a time.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
He will find out and until he knows.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
The real you, he cannot possibly love you.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I would love if you could to tell us how
you interpreted that whole scene. Why I And I also
just I just need to understand why Elouise reacted like that.
I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Really, did you think she should embrace her?
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Well?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I be like I think that I still haven't gotten
over understanding how a lifelong friendship could begin to dissolve
or be suspended over the revelation that Penelope has whistledown.
I can't get over that part. Oh wow, and that's perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I lost it.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I don't get it.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
I think, okay, I'm almost going to do this in
an answer to try and get you to maybe see
to understand. I think she's humiliated. I think it's more
she's deeply, deeply embarrassed. We've watched Ellowise for two seasons
try to uncover who Lady Whistledown is, and Lady Whistledown
(09:05):
has been watching her do it trying to stop her.
That's really embarrassing, really embarrassing. She's been in accasions with
the Queen. That's big deal. And it would be over
here if we'd be massive if I was then with
the king, because I was in trouble.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Big deal.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
She's written about her brother, more than one brother. She's
written about Eloise. She outed her for hanging around with
like a lower class printer boy. And now without any
knowledge before she's walked in engaged to her brother that
(09:44):
she has been writing about, and Eloise hasn't been told anything,
and her brother still doesn't know, and her brother wants
to like end Lady Whistledown as well, because he's still
furious about what happened with Lady Crane and what happened
with Eloise and about what you know, he's still furious about.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That he wants.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
So I think she's infuriated that her friend. I think
she's humiliated and she's flabbergasted that her former best friend
can walk in and just be like, we're just getting engaged.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Okay, so who are you? You're like, who are you?
I thought I know you, I do not know you.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
Yeah, So the stuff with the brother, I understand that,
because even that, I understand how that can feel like
all right, like the Whistledown stuff. Sure, but you can't
just get mad because you know you were too blind
to see that your best friend was in love with
your brother, Because that's Eloise is bad.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Anyone would have been able to know.
Speaker 5 (10:44):
Like, So I do get that, But I think Eloise
is almost using you know, when you I don't know,
if you're frustrated about something, you you should maybe pick
on a smaller thing to embolden you. I think she's
sort of using that now as a thing being like,
and now you're going to be having a jolly old
(11:06):
time with mubbig bro. Also, it's her first time to
really explode for the whole of the summer that they've
not spoken to each other. And and Eloise is probably
being a little bit stubborn. But I love that you're
just like, no, deal with it, this is fine.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I can I can see. I guess I'm also just
like Elie. I mean, I guess you know what, you know,
You're right, You're right. I guess I was also just
thinking of it as like Eloise could have been like, yes, girl,
you make that money, tell these stories. Let me give
you some other hat tips to include good, but there
(11:46):
is that embarrassment and I you're right.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
You're right, But I think you're right, though there is
an another world where absolutely your version is correct, where
Eloise would have been like Wow, she would have been
so happy about it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
She was so infatuated with Lady whistled out.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
She was in love, totally in love.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
And I think if Penelope hadn't written about Eloise and
tried to manipulate Eloise into stopping everything with the printer boy,
Eloise would have been happy for Penelope.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Forget about the printed boy party. It's a thorn in
mass hat.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
We'll be right back after the break. We're back with
more bridgeton the official podcast. You are going toe to
toe with your good friend in real life. What was
it like for you and Nicola to work on those
(12:47):
really emotionally tough scenes.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Mostly it just felt unusual because seasons one and two,
all of our scenes were basically together, Like the eight
percent of our scenes are always together. We're always together,
always together. I'm always yanking her out of rooms. It
seems that I'm just always pulling her out of rooms.
And so what felt that most odd is that we
(13:12):
just weren't together. So actually we probably just enjoyed the
chance to be together in a scene, even if it
was me being like you're with But yeah, it mostly
felt odd that we were just we were spending so
much time apart on set.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I want to know what you think about Eloise trying
to give Penelope and the ultimate I'm if.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
It proves too difficult for you to reveal the truth,
I will be merciful and ability myself.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
You haven't till midnight. I guess it is.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
It is Penelope's responsibility. It's not Eloise's eloisas it's heartbroken.
She doesn't, she's upset about it. I do love that though,
because also as an actor, it's always fun to be like,
you have until midnight, Like you want to say lines
like that. That's slight proper like movie stuff, isn't it.
You've got un til mid my mate. So that's always
(14:04):
fun as an actor to be able to say that.
I like the mix up of it all. Firstly, like
from a TV perspective, there's nothing more fun than the
audience knowing something that none of the characters know. That's
always the best place to be. It's always the most
fun because then you're like, why can't you just say it?
And then next to that was the only other thing
(14:25):
that's fun after that is being alongside one character who knows.
So everybody knows Elouise knows. So there's this amazing, beautiful
tension of like when is it going to be revealed?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
You know?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
But I think Elowise is actually I think she's doing
the right thing to be like Colin needs to know,
it's going to find out at some.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Point, doesn't need to know?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Do you don't think he does? You're like, get married
then tell.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
N get married, have some blise and then one day
over tea by the way, I think, yeah, I think
I was definitely the part of the audience that was like,
just let this be what it is right now and
we will figure it out. I was genuinely happy that
(15:10):
it was happening for them, for the for color a Penelope.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, I think Eloise is like just seriously.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
So so upset or the world's greatest cock block.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
That's what I'm saying. And I was wondering, that's what
you think. But I'm like, Eloise, sit down, just shut up.
Bringing it back to so okay, to the chart scene,
which is clever. It's symbolic, and Eloise and Penelope are
(15:44):
almost sparring.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
My first is a contraction for society. My second notes
are recluse. My third forms a part.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Of the here.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
My whole is but a quibbled something none, yes, no work.
Is it not a conundrum?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
First?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I would venture four, My second I would venture in.
My whole is more talked of than practice dwelling.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
Perhaps no venture four?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Venture in It is friendship, is it not?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Just participating games.
Speaker 7 (16:24):
There is a history between these two.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Perhaps it will finally be settled.
Speaker 8 (16:29):
It's not the same as how we think of charades
today now, it's not at all. I was a little
lost the first or yes, so away, so away babe,
we were what is this? So you you all didn't
really know about this this former form of charades while
you were reading the script?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Did you all have to like learn it? Was it fun? Like?
Did you try to do your own actual version of
charades like that?
Speaker 7 (16:58):
As?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
It's so riddle heavy, isn't it. It's so riddle heavy
because I remember there being like my half is this,
my half is this, and my whole is this?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Like it's things like that, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
It's like if my blah blah is this, then my
blah And we did have a lot of fun because
also anytime where there's loads of us together, we're all
like rattling, we're so like buzzing, and like we're knackered
by the records to midday, we're like so tired because we're.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Just all the energy.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
We're like I loved doing that scene. I loved it
so much. I thought it was so funny. All of
us were giggling loads. Also, Johnny's in there. Anthony Bridgeton
he's there, isn't he? Because I remember me and him
laughing a lot together. And also I do love the
borderline sitcom way that it's been structured between Penelope and
(17:50):
Ellowise in this thing. It's so also like I'm the
first and foremost comedian, like my heart is comedy.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Like that is where I.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Sit most comfortable, and stuff like that. For me, it's like,
I love.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
It so much.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
Again, it sort of takes a pinch pinch of the
fury out of it a bit as well, because it's
so funny, which I enjoy.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I love it. I loved filming those scenes. We were
crying with laughter a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Were there any other moments for you that were comical
that you really I mean you said, it's been a
while now, but any of that stand out for you.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
One of my favorite things I've seen so far it
must be episode three with a balloon. There's this sort
of mad like quartet of the law and then the
three girls, and then when Eloisa like that, you know,
the great orc does not fly like all of that
sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I love all of that, love that love anything comedy wise.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
There's also at the end of episode one, I was
really pleased because this year I got this season, I
got to do a lot with loop Nuts, which beautiful
because sometimes a lot of the time, because there's so
many of us, there's times where you'll be like, I
don't think I've.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Ever spoken to this sibling.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Like in a scene you realize you're like, no, I've
never spoken to Johnny.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
But like, it was.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Really nice for me and lout Newton to get so
much to do together. And right at the end of
episode one, elouis just reading Lady Whistledown and then she's like.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Brother would have been and he said, no, what you're
reading nothing?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
I love that's that's like yummy comedy, just cute, light tickley,
sort of funny.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I love it. I love that this. I love that
Bridgeton's so funny.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
The way the Bridgerton's siblings are so like like right
on top of each other with the lines. I'm like,
are you rehearsing it like that? It has? Is that
time rehearsing it going over it that brings that really
natural sibling like banter to the forefront or like by
(19:56):
at this point, is it just kind of like in
you all just that this is what it is. It's
so I just I just love how quick it is.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
That's Shonderland, thank you, that's shonder that's that is fully
shonder because I think a lot of British produced period
pieces are a lot of pauses here and they're sort
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
And I can get it can get a bit dry,
can't it. Let's dry, so I do.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
I loved that it was sort of this like madly
just brilliantly paced period piece that's so clever. Luckily, I
decided that I wanted Eloise to speak at the sound
of light. I just wanted her to speak fast, move like,
move like you know, limmy, be quite limmy, and I
(20:48):
wanted all of those things that it's great, it's great,
it works.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
But don't get me wrong.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
When we come back to work, there's like a week
where we've got to feel like we're putting in new
teeth and we're like getting back into the language of it.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
So that's fine, that's fun because we we'll get there.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
It will take us a couple of days something like that.
But I think in terms of the Bridgetons being together,
we do have like a performative shorthand with each other now,
like we're very comfortable around each other. We love each
other a great deal. Like the Bridgeton family are very
very close. It's beautiful being on set with them.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Quadia, Jesse May, I love speaking to you.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I love speaking with you.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Lovely.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
We'll be back after the break to sit down with
showrunner Jess Brownew to talk about some of the jar
dropping twists from this episode. Welcome back, Okay. So many
new threads are introduced in this episode, Penn and Colin's intimacy,
(21:54):
Eloise's ultimatum, Cressida's bombshell lie so to tease some of
these apart, I chatted with showrunner Jess Brownew. We talked
about the character beats at episode five and the decision
to change some details from the original source material. Jess,
(22:16):
welcome back once again.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
We need to get into episode five. I feel though
the way it shot is so is so spot on
with how I personally felt. I was just like, what
is happening? The move the room is moving. I think
I was still still yelling. I mean I was actually
(22:42):
yelling at the end of episode four, like what so
it was gone? So episode five I am. I feel
like I'm in the same headspace with Penelope. The secrecy
and the tension between Netlpe, Eloise, and Colin also reaches
(23:05):
its height this episode. We see in the first few
moments everyone's embracing Penelope. They're so happy about this engagement announcement,
but Eloise is not storms off. Why was that moment
the moment for Eloise to stop our feet and walk away?
Speaker 7 (23:24):
So, first of all, I just want to say what
you're talking about of like feeling like you're in the
room and your head is spinning the way it's shot,
that was very much something we baked into the script
to the writing like it was described. I think as
you know, feeling like it's a dream, feeling like you're
on a boat, feeling like you're underwater. Azy a squire
(23:44):
who wrote this episode did a fantastic job. And you know,
it is also that feeling of Wow, what a dream.
And then you wake up and there's that record scratch
moment where suddenly, oh, yeah, there's Eloise and oh yeah,
she doesn't know that we have been secretly having a
(24:05):
crush on each other and that's my sister Slash, that's
my best friend.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Oh that's awkward.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
And so I think it was important for us to
set up that tension at the very top of the episode,
because that is really the tension that's going to take
us through the back half of the season. It's narratively
something that was useful for us. Having this secret of
Whistledown hanging over our main couple in many ways allows
(24:34):
us to enjoy the romance between Colin and Penelope without
having to create extraneous drama directly between the two of them.
There's this whole other thing, this freight train that we
know is on a collision course with their coupling. So
that's something we're speeding towards as we head on for
(24:55):
the finale.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
I spoke with Claudia and she very much loved being
able to sink her teeth into all of that. Jess,
did you have an opportunity to talk with Claudia about
what was going on and tell me about that.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Yeah, I mean Claudia is such a fantastic person an
actor and always game for anything, truly. She loves playing
Eloise and she loves Bridgerton, and I think she was
really excited to portray Eloise in a new light, you know,
(25:34):
starting with the first part of the season, getting to
pair up with Cressida, which is just a totally different
vibe for the character, and then going head to head
with Penelope was also, I think an exciting challenge. I
think it was difficult for the two of them because
Nikola and Claudia like each other so much, so to
(25:56):
play it was funny. They would be on set playing
all this drama and angst and then you know, the
director would yell cut and they go, oh, I'm so sorry,
give each other a big hug.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
I'm not really mad at you. So she was game, she.
Speaker 7 (26:11):
Was game, but but yeah, it was a bit of
a funny transition.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Claudia loved the idea of the countdown to midnight. This
episode is beautifully titled TikTok.
Speaker 7 (26:23):
Right, everyone is like like the app I'm like, no, Like,
remember clocks Before we had digital clocks, there.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Were hands short songs.
Speaker 7 (26:34):
Yeah. I know most of us kind of including myself,
don't really know how to read those anymore. But yeah, yeah,
I mean, I will say there was an earlier version
of Eloise this season, just I think when we were
breaking the very first episode, a version of Eloise who
was a lot more antagonistic towards Penelope, who was just
(26:55):
straight up, like getting in her business, like really at
her and kind of coming for her. And ultimately, when
we it only was in a draft of an outline,
but we decided internally that it just didn't feel like
the show and it didn't feel like Eloise. And so
(27:16):
I actually think Eloise has been pretty chill this season,
considering what Penelope wrote about her last year, like, you know,
if I were Eloise, if I were that age and
you know my best friend had screwed me over in
that way and written about me, I might be more upset.
(27:37):
And I think that Eloise has, other than going off
and palaying around with Cressida in the first half of
the season, she's pretty much stayed out of Penelope's way
and let her do her thing. You know, she hasn't
tried to tell her secret to anyone, and so I
think Eloise is probably feeling like geez, like I gave
you this bandwidth and I let you do your thing.
(28:00):
You know, I gave you, I showed you grace, and
now you snuck around behind my back and are getting
together with my brother under false pretenses.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
And she gives her.
Speaker 7 (28:11):
The opportunity early in the episode to be like I'm
going to let you tell him on your own terms,
which Penelope requests. And then when Penelope doesn't do it, Yeah,
it's her engagement party. It's not that nice, but I
get it, you know. I think internally we all felt
like it made sense for her to come for Penelope
(28:33):
at that moment, and you know, it was a great
setting for it too. Engagement party charades all.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I loved the charades, Jess. That was so fun, so witty.
Speaker 7 (28:44):
The charades came from Asia, who wrote this episode, and
our first week of the room, we always spend that
first week blue skying.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Each writer gets.
Speaker 7 (28:55):
You know, a presentation time to talk about what set
piece is do you want to see this season? You know,
what characters are you most excited about, what dynamic do
you want to see more of or less of?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Anything?
Speaker 7 (29:10):
And something that Asya brought up on like day one
or two was that she really thought it'd be fun
to do a game night. I think she's someone like
many of us who has game nights. She's like Regency
game Night, Let's do it. And we kept looking for
moments to do it. And then when we got to
this episode and there was all this tension simmering between
Penelope and Eloise.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
We were like, oh damn, this is the.
Speaker 7 (29:34):
Moment because these two going head to head on like
a thinky game like regency charades, which is a little
different from contemporary charades.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
We kind of had to like explain it in.
Speaker 7 (29:45):
The show because I knew people would be like, well,
but it's a great moment, I think, to underscore their connection,
but also the competition and tension that's going on between them.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
And then of course we have the Queen and Lady
Danbury take a.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Seat and enjoy this momentous day with me.
Speaker 5 (30:03):
What is it that we are celebrating the demise of
Lady whistle doown?
Speaker 4 (30:09):
She's undefended. Now is the time to strike?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
And what is your plan? Your majesty, it is already done.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
If there was one thing you could really just pick
out from that moment between the two of them, what
do we as viewers learn about their about their relationship
and what they're like plotting to do their dynamic altogether?
Speaker 7 (30:39):
Yeah, well, I think having Queen Charlotte the spinoff series
gave me a lot to work with, which I'm really
grateful to Shonda for she created this incredibly rich backstory
for the Queen and Lady dan Barry, and knowing that
they go as far back as they do now and
(30:59):
that I have this almost family relationship, it got a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
More interesting to write that connection this year.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
I think Lady dan Barry knows the Queen better than
she knows herself in certain ways. And there's that moment
in the chess game where Dan Barry makes the point
that why put an end to the game when you
can keep playing? And I think she knows that for
the Queen. Even though the Queen makes a lot of
(31:30):
noise about hating whistle Down and that whistle Bottom lady,
why is she always getting in my business? Et cetera,
she knows that this is entertainment for her and that
it brings her a certain amount of joy.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
She also knows that the Queen.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
I think Dan Barry is maybe starting to suspect who
whistled Down is. I don't think she knows it's Penelope,
but I think she's a smart cookie, and I think
she realizes it's probably a debutante who is clutching at
a little slice of power, because she herself knew what
(32:08):
it was like to be powerless as a debutante and
to be voiceless as a debutante, as a married young woman,
et cetera. And because she knows that that's probably the case,
I think she's starting to want to convince the Queen
to give this writer some grace.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
So in episode five we also get a huge scene
for fans of the book and just a really great
pollen moment overall. Can you break down the mirror scene
for us and how did you approach it?
Speaker 7 (32:40):
So the mirror scene in episode five is really pure
fan service because the truth of the matter is that
the mirror scene does not exist in the books. The
mirror scene is referenced in the books. It's basically calling saying, boy,
(33:02):
wouldn't I love to do something very sexy x y
Z with you in the mirror and she's titilated by
the idea and then it never happens. They never get
to it. But the fans have run with this and
have gone, gosh, that mirror scene, that'd be fun to see.
And we were aware that there was that excitement around
(33:23):
the scene and wanted to create it in our reality.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
So that you know it could come true.
Speaker 7 (33:29):
It is a little bit well, it's obviously different because
it's not real in the book, but we wanted to
honor some of the some of the suggestions that are
made in the book, which I'm going to leave people
to look up themselves, but some of the sexy suggestions
Colin makes in the in the book scene, we wanted
(33:49):
to see some of that happen. But also mirrors became
a central motif for us this season. It may have
started with, oh yeah, let's do the mirror scene, but
in talking about it in the room, we realized that
a mirror is a perfect metaphor for a lot of
what we're talking about this year, which is two selves.
(34:11):
There's the self you show to the world, aka the
self that you see in the mirror, which is your
outer self, your persona, and then there is the private self,
who is the person standing on the other side of
the mirror who might be very different from the person
in the mirror. So Penelope presents one side to the
world and then she's a totally other person on the inside,
(34:34):
as is Colin, and both of them are having to
figure out this season how to merge the mirror self
with the real self, and so you'll see mirrors actually
spotting up all over the season in almost every episode, there's.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Something mirrory, mirrory. I've never said the word mirror. So
many mirror So yeah.
Speaker 7 (35:00):
It's become pretty key to the season in a lot
of ways, and it's why we've used the mirror motif
in the marketing campaign for the season. It's not just
about the sexy moment, it's about the bigger theme that
we're using there.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
That's amazing, That is amazing. Okay, what movements, emotions, or
other factors were you taking into consideration when figuring out
how to convey Penelope and Collin's emotional connection is heating up?
Speaker 7 (35:35):
I mean, I think for us, we talk a lot
about how important storytelling is in the intimacy scenes. You know,
we want we're always mindful of starting from a place
of story so that we don't get into the zone
of it being gratuitous. I mean, it's a sexy show,
of course, but we want to ground the intimate scenes
(35:57):
in character development. And so with Helbie, for example, you
see you know, Colin facing her towards the mirror, which
obviously metaphorically and literally is about her facing herself, and
he's talking to her about you know, what he sees
and how he wants her to see all these things
(36:18):
about herself as well, her beauty, her kindness, you know,
her cleverness, all the things he loves about her. And
there's this moment where he undresses her, which metaphorically, of course,
being naked is representative of being vulnerable, being raw. And
at first, when she's nude in front of him, she's
(36:39):
covering herself up, which is very much the way she
operates in the world.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
She hides.
Speaker 7 (36:45):
And then as they begin to make love, you know,
Colin is encouraging her by you know, helping her to
understand how beautiful of a person she is, and she's
able to uncover herself and show herself to him. And
in fact, she really takes a lot of agency in
that scene by saying, teach me, tell me what to do,
(37:08):
like I want to do stuff. You know, she doesn't
want to be a passive pillow princess. She wants to
be an active participant in this moment. And I think
that's big for Penelope to be brave enough to say no,
like give me, give me a hand in what's going
on here, and Colin allows that and then kind of
(37:29):
meets her halfway. And I would say the most important
moment of the scene to me is the laughter that
follows it. We haven't had that in any of our
intimacy scenes in this show. You know, Daphne and Simon
and Kate and Anthony. Daphnie and Simon were you know,
friend lee, but they didn't have that depth of knowing
(37:51):
each other before they got together. It was more about
torture and burning for each other. And then with Kate
and Anthony it was all longing and torture, more torture,
and with these two they just love each other deeply
in a friendship way and now you know more and
more in a romantic way. And so getting to see
(38:12):
that comfort to the point where they can laugh after
the sex and smile and be giddy. I think I
really loved getting portray that, getting to portray that on
screen because I wish that for people that they get
to have sex like that, that you know, sex gets
(38:32):
to be happy and joyful and not all torture.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
So I wonder how many people are going to put
full length mirrors in their shopping cards after.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
I say it, get it, Yes, I want that for people.
Speaker 7 (38:46):
If mirror sales go through the roof, then I'm gonna
feel really great, see your beauty, step into your light,
look at yourself in the mirror.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
For real. I love that so so much. I want
to talk more about Cressida because I think that is
a very interesting character. Cressida has this moment at the
end of the episode where she announces that she is
Lady Whistledown. It kind of shifts everything moving forward. I mean,
(39:24):
Penelope faints. That was wild. I'm also wondering if at
any point you all just were thinking, like, who else
could it be other than Cressida, Like was that a
discussion or was it always just going to be Cressida
to be like it's me, y'all.
Speaker 7 (39:41):
So the Cressida plot twist is straight out of the book.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
That is a Julia Quinn moment.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
And you know, we shifted the plot around a bit
this season, but all of the elements are really still there.
They're just not in the same order and they don't
necessarily involve the exact same lineup of people. But that
was a moment from the book that I thought played really,
really well. And you know, we've there's been this dynamic
(40:11):
between Penelope and Cressida for two seasons. We've watched her
be Penelope's mean girl. She's always been a part of
Penelope's story and it felt right to bring.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
That to a head.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
That was so great, specifically because Penelope passes out. It
was just like the wind got knocked out of her.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (40:34):
I'll also say Cressida was a really exciting character in
general to write this season. I love a good mean girl,
but more than that, I love understanding why a mean
girl is a mean girl. And I feel like mean
girls are not born, they're made, and so getting to
understand why Cressida is the way she is, seeing what's
(40:58):
going on behind the scenes with her mom and her
dad and her family life, which is so in opposition
to the Bridgertons or even the Featheringtons, which.
Speaker 6 (41:08):
To turn no more than one ball per month, and
only if her sort of strong moral character I certainly
do not believe in music and modern not nowadays is
absolutely scandalous.
Speaker 7 (41:21):
That sounds delightful, do you not agree, Cressida? And also
understanding that Cressida, she's thought of herself as a queen
Bee for a little while now, but she's in her
third season out and like Penelope, she's starting to tiptoe
(41:42):
towards spinsterhood, so she's starting to think of herself in
a very different way that allows some room for reflection
and maturation and growth. So I'm excited that people are
getting to see new layers to Cressida this year, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
For sure. And just Cresita being set up by her
parents to marry someone twice her age, and some of
the visuals that we just see around Cressida and her
home life too, really do teach us about why she
is the way she is. Her circumstances really do paint
a picture for us.
Speaker 7 (42:21):
Yeah. That set design Alison Garshore did on Cresita's home
I thought was so genius. We thought of it from
the beginning as the anti Bridgerton House.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
So if Bridgerton.
Speaker 7 (42:33):
House is light and bright and the curtains are drawn open,
you know, Cressida the Cowper House is dark. And Alison
actually designed the room so that it was sort of coffin,
like like really tall and narrow, instead of being shorter
and wider, which is more cozy and comforting. So when
(42:55):
you step into that set in person, you can feel
like a sense of forebot. It was really geniusly designed.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Could you describe before we wrap a little bit of
what the mindset now between Colin and Penelope is moving
forward with kind of this. Just before midnight, Cressida announces
she's Lady whistled Down, and I mean, yeah, like, what
where are they now?
Speaker 7 (43:24):
So Penelope obviously is freaking out because this is her
life's work and even though it's brought her a lot
of strife and anxiety via her relationship with Colin and Eloise.
I think in the moment that Cressida says I am
(43:44):
Lady Whistledowns, it's difficult for her because it should be
on her terms. Who says who's whistledown and if it's
her or if it's not her, if it's someone else.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
So she's really torn.
Speaker 7 (43:59):
I think thatween her love for Colin and her love
for her alter ego. And then on Collin's side of things,
he doesn't really know what's going on, but he knows
something is up with Penelope, and he's not sure if
it's a problem with him because obviously he doesn't know
(44:20):
that there's something.
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Else going on.
Speaker 7 (44:22):
So I think sending us forward into the back half
is this sense of insecurity in Colin and uncertainty about
how penn feels about him, so that's something that he
will be searching for some validation around going forward.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Jess I love talking with you. Thank you so much
for joining us again.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
So fun to be back.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Thank you for joining us on this deep dive into
the world of Bridgerton. Next week, I'm sitting down with
the Sleeve Queen herself, Jessica Ma Katson who plays Cressida,
as well as Polly Walker who plays Lady Featherington. Two
characters with a lot of secrets and drama going into
(45:11):
part two. Stay tuned Bridgerton. The official podcast is produced
by Shondaland Audio and Wonder Media Network. This show is
executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, Jenny Kaplan,
and Emily Rudder. Our producers are Sarah Schleid, Edie Allard,
(45:34):
and Carmen Borca Carrio. This episode is edited by Jenny
Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our associate producers are Lauren Williams
and Akia mcnight and I am your host, Gabrielle Collins.
If you're enjoying this show, please subscribe, share with your friends,
rate or leave us a review, and if you haven't
(45:55):
finished binging, Bridgerton on Netflix. Please go do that so
you can enjoy all the juicy spoilers with us. For
more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Gabrielle Collins
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