July 4, 2024 • 46 mins
The season finale is here! Our leading lady, Nicola Coughlan, joins the podcast to talk about Penelope’s happily ever after and the impeccable nuance she brings to Ms. Featherington. Then, Gabi sits with showrunner Jess Brownell once more to talk through that massive Lady Whistledown reveal and other juicy plot points from the finale.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland in
partnership with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your
exclusive peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. I'm
your host, Gabby Collins. Today we're talking about episode eight,
(00:21):
our season finale, Into the Light, and if you haven't
watched it yet, now is your last chance to catch
up before we spoil everything. Because it's the season finale,
we have a special treatment store for you. I'm joined
by Nikola Coughlin to talk about Penelopes Happily ever After
and Jess Brownell to talk through that major Lady Whistledown reveal.
(00:46):
But before we get into it, let's have a little
whistle download of this episode. In the last episode, Penelope
and Colin tied the knot, but they are not lost
in newly wed bliss and still can't forgive pen for
keeping the secret that she is Lady Whistledown. And Colin's
not the only one who now knows about Penn's secret identity.
(01:08):
Cressida Cowper has uncovered her ruse and is threatening to
tell the entire ton unless Penelope pays her a hefty sum.
Pen and her mother discover each other's secrets and learn
to see each other eye to eye. Meanwhile, Francesca and
Lord Kilmartin exchange vows and get ready to head to
the highlands of Scotland, much to Lady Bridgerton's dismay. Philip
(01:31):
but and Prudence Featherington decide to throw a ball as
one last hurrah before they have children. With a little
help from Penelope's pocketbook, the ball is a smash. Even
the Queen shows up, though she's there with her own
agenda to unmask Lady Whistledown once and for all. Penelope
spills the beans in front of the whole ton with
(01:53):
a moving speech, and the Queen gives her blessing that
Penelope may continue writing. As the season concludes, we fast
forward several months to see Penelope and Colin as new
parents to the Featherington Air and both are now successful writers.
We just love a happily ever after and a few
(02:13):
easter eggs for what is in store for next season
will be sure to have audiences taken to social media
now to kick off this finale episode, here's my conversation
with Nikola Cochlan. Okay, this year, returning to set after
(02:36):
a few seasons. But I'm wondering if this time around
there were any significant differences that you weren't expecting, anything
that you didn't realize until you got there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think the things I expected I knew, like the
workfield was going to be crazy. I knew it was
going to be pretty relentless for like the eight Onnes
eight and a half once however long was we were filming.
But I think it's interesting having shot two seasons before
and just that shift in focus and you know, knowing
what it was like to be, you know, supporting and
(03:12):
in the in the background, but knowing that the main
story was happening. I think that the emotional weight of
carrying the story where I was like, oh wow, this
does feel very very different than Luke and I would
joke about it and say it feels so yeah, so
different to you know, be the main story. You really
did feel it, you know, it felt like, you know,
(03:34):
everything was kind of coming around like just for you,
and yeah that that, yeah, I felt the weight of it.
But it was like exciting and emotional and all of
the things.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Would you say that you and Penelope have been on
a similar journey in any kinds of ways, And are
there any specific moments that you can speak to where
you felt that or had like a wildly excited or
equally nervous experience that Penelope may have had.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
There's so many and it's been different in each season,
but in this one in particular, I think, you know,
there's the huge theme in this season about her stepping
out of the shadows and into the light, and that
is something I really have to do myself also because
you know, it doesn't come naturally to me. It sounds
people rollalized on art to school. It doesn't come naturally
to me to be the center of attention, But in
my day to day it actually it doesn't. Like I'm
(04:25):
quite introverted in many many ways. That moment of her
at the top of the stairs and the reveal I
found really intimidating. But I had to be like, take
this moment, like, this is her story and you're telling
her story in this moment, and it's going to mean
so much to people, and like for the character, this
is what she would have wanted. But for me as Nikola,
(04:47):
they're going like, oh god, this is a lot of
people looking at Yeah, it's a lot, so you're having
to kind of take up that space and become the
leading lady. Was definitely it was a journey that I
went on throughout the whole season. It wasn't like that
I you know, stepped in day one and go, yeah,
I'm here, I'm the leading lady.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Like.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But also what was quite nice is I feel for Penn.
I don't think she comes into her womanhood or herself
instantly either, So I was on that journey with her
throughout the whole time.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
We'll be right back after the break. We're back with
more bridgeton the official podcast. All Right, the Friends to
Lover's Journey. Speaking of coming into womanhood, like, you also
(05:42):
have a huge transition in one of your relationships, your
friendships on this show, which matures in a way, right, Yeah,
so tricky to capture believably on screen, but you and
Luke Newton have such an under liable connection. You guys
are definitely friends in real life, and it makes that
(06:05):
I think that makes it feel so fresh and alive.
Your scenes together are so passionate. I'm thinking about the
carriage scene of course. Yeah, yeah, all the nu once
and deep discourse that you know, the fans are definitely
connecting with. Could you talk about that balance between friendship
and passion for Penelope and Colin's that special sauce.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
It was, do you know what? It was written so beautifully.
When Jess Brownell first got Luke and I on a
zoom a couple of months before we started filming and
talked us through the storylines, I was like, wow, because
as an actor, it's just like a gift that's being
given to you, Like you get to do all of
this and it's like the thing that you love doing.
So you go like, and it's wonderful also to be
entrusted with with so many storylines and so many ups
(06:51):
and downs and dramatic moments and funny moments, you go, Okay,
they think I can do this, which is really really nice.
But I looked out in a huge way. Luke by
my side, he is you know you've spoke to him.
He's just the kindest, He's such, he's got no ego,
He's very uncomplicated in the in the best way. Like
(07:14):
he was someone who I could have such an honest
dialogue with about how it was feeling. And you know,
it's it's eight months and it's very intense. You have
personal ups and downs, and you have days where you're
just bone tired and you're like, god, this is you know,
you sometimes feel the pressure of it because this show
we're lucky, it's so beloved. But then you're like, oh
god it, Like I hope I'm doing enough. Like I
(07:36):
hope I'm doing what, you know, service to the fans
and service to the viewers and to Chandal and all
the writers and all of this stuff. So I couldn't
have done it without him by my side, very genuinely,
and even you know, at the moment we're right in
the middle of the press tour and there's like no
time to breathe or like do anything, but you know
the fact that he's always there, like he's my right
(07:58):
hand man, you know, he just we've got each other's box.
So our relationship progress so so much in this season.
I'd always had so much time for I always liked
him so much, but now I have like a real
love for him truly, because he's Yeah, he's a really
special person in my life. It's I feel very lucky
to have him.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I'm sure he's lucky to have you too. You know.
That's really that's so sweet. I mean, there are not
so sweet moments in the show though, between the two characters. Right,
there's the whistle doown of the matter, Colin finding out
just before the wedding that you are a bona fide writer,
(08:37):
I know deeply important for Penelope to not be carrying
the burden, but also to maintain this other life she's
built for herself. The arguments between the two of you
in those moments are so relatable, right, Those scenes have layers, layers,
layers and layers. Can you speak to how much be
(09:00):
Lady Whistledown means to Penelope, even if it means hurting
her betrothed, her husband.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I was so thrilled when I found out that that
was going to be part of this story, because I
think this is an issue that women in the modern
world have to deal with all the time. I think
men are very threatened by successful women, by women who
know who they are, women who know what they want.
(09:28):
Men often don't know how to deal with that women
who have their shit together. And the thing with Penelope,
she's such an interesting ball of contradictions because she is
this shy girl, but she's this fucking great writer, and
she knows that, and that's because I think we all
have that within ourselves, Like there's certain things, you know,
I know I'm right at this, but then there's my
(09:48):
weak spot. Like people go, but how can she be
all these things? You're like, because humans are complex, We're
a million different things. But she is so steadfast and knowing.
And also she's like the most famous writer in London.
But I thin I think also it's an interesting thing
is when Colin is like a little but hurt about it.
There's of course the element of him being angry at her,
which he is entitled to be, and she went about
(10:09):
things completely the wrong way. But then also she's a
victim of circumstance. You know, she lives in a society
where she if she went, hey, mom, I want to
be a writer, they would have been like, Okay, no,
you're not go get married with this dude. You don't
want to get married to. She didn't have as many
choices as a modern woman would have.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It's funny because I was speaking to my friend about
this season and she was like, well, she should just
give it up, and I'm like, no, she shouldn't give
it up. Like I think like that about my job,
my career. I worked my ass off to get to
where I am. I had zero connections, I didn't come
from money. I had to do all of the worst
retail jobs you can imagine. And it's not that the
(10:46):
job's nice, it's just that people are not nice to you.
And you know, you're scraping together your coins to pay
your rent and stuff like that. And if some man
the like if you were the love of my eyesa
to me, you've got to give it all up, I'd
be like, you got to give me up because I'm
not doing that. And I just love that she has
that conviction in herself because it would have killed me
if she would have gone, like, yeah, I really am
(11:09):
marrying this guy, but I'm just gonna forget about all that. Like, No,
you should never give up who you are, even for
someone that you love deeply, because that's not someone who
truly loves you. Then if they're not willing to let
you shine, they're not the one. So many women have
had to deal with this.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Oh that is so true, and it's I just feel
like it's so relatable, and yeah, so many women, so
many people have gone through that very experience. The way
you play Penelope. I see I see her saying I
am this strong writer, career woman making this money, but
I'm also soft. Look at my shoulder, a little exposed here,
(11:51):
come get it. But you know I love that that Penelope.
It can be two things.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, that dichostomy is what makes her thrilling to play
because but people also, I laugh all the time about
the sort of meme that goes around of like you
wanted a complicated female character, you couldn't handle her, and
they feel like Harry brad John, You're like, let women
be lots of things, because if you think about real
life women, that's what they're like. Sometimes you can be
(12:22):
like a bad bitch at work and say like no,
this isn't okay and this is' and then you can
come home to the person you love and be super
soft and be like, you know, I'm baby here today
like that. You know that's all fine, and you shouldn't
have to hide one version of yourself or feel like
one version of yourself negates the other, because it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
The moment you reveal yourself to the time as Lady
whistle down, Oh my God, my heart tour, just a
little bit, just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I wrote about all of you, because I was captivated
by you living your lives still out in the open,
and then writing about all of you, I suddenly felt
as if I had a I had power, and for
anyone in this room who has ever had a taste
of that, it should know it can be intoxicating. But
(13:12):
I was careless with that power. It was easy to
cast dispersions from the shadows where I could not be found.
But I see now how much courage it takes to
live a life out in the open, to honor one's
weaknesses publicly for all to see, and to know, regardless
(13:32):
of the outcome, one always has worth.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
All of us talk, we gossip. Gossip is information.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It forges bonds, especially for those of us who are
told so little. But I can no longer conceal the
biggest piece of information I have, my identity.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It was such an amazingly written speech, and I remember
that day because it's really funny, and like I mentioned
in an interview that I had, you know, towards the end,
I was crying because I was so tired. That was
like a day that I was crying just because I
was like it was it was everything and It wasn't
like bad crying, but I think the gravity of the
moment hit me, being like I'm doing this show and
(14:25):
I had like, this is such a moment. This has
been such an intense, amazing experience for me. And it
was right towards the end. It was like a final
couple of weeks and I was on the stage like
waiting for camerasysetu up and I just like tears just
started pouring down my face and I was like it
was a part exhaustion, part overwhelmed, part immense gratitude part.
But yeah, then the story of the headline of the
(14:47):
Hollywood Reporter was like Nicola Coughlin burst into tears at work,
and I was like, no, it wasn't. I had an
amazing time. It was just overwhelming. Yeah, was that.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Your very last scene that you shot?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It wasn't. No, the final the final final scene, the
final scene I shot with Luke. It was the final
intimacy scene between Colin and Penn.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Okay, I've reserved for the end.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That was like the final one, And yeah, I had
a cry after that, but many tears towards the end. Yeah,
love love bit of a cry.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's so good. Let's talk about you and Polly Walker,
who plays Porscha Feathering. Yeah, one of the greatest surprises
of the season is the growth in the relationship that
Penelope has with her mum. With the growth of Penelope,
Porscha also tries to, in her own way, find the
love and understanding of her daughter. So Polly said, she's
(15:44):
naturally a very maternal person.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
She is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
What was it like working with her and specifically on
this hard relationship this season? It was so satisfying.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I love. I was dying for it to happen, actually,
because I've always felt like there was so much of
Portia in Penn that Penn didn't see herself. But I'm like,
you didn't. We have a it's very irish saying. We
say you didn't lick it off the stones, so basically
means like it didn't come from nowhere, like the apple
doesn't fall too far from the tree, like you will
have picked up something from your your parents kind of
(16:20):
kind of thing. So yeah, she didn't lick it off
the stones. And like, yeah, but that like, you know,
that savviness, that business present she has, you know, the
like her like her sharpness and her wit. She I
think would like to think, maybe at the beginning of
the season, like, oh, that's just me, that's just I'm like,
but your mom has that. You get so much of
that from her. She doesn't want to accept it, but
I think I love those moments of her. I loved
(16:42):
those scenes where I really adore Polly and she's funny
because she's so on Porsche in everyone. You know, she's
so soft and lovely and caring and yeah, she's heaven
to work with. But yeah, I loved those moments and
also Penelope having to sort of also admit fault in
(17:03):
some ways and going, yeah, I didn't see you like that,
and I didn't you know, her seeing her mother as
a human being, which is you know, it's such an important,
you know moment in adulthood when you finally realize your
parents are just humans and they're not like grown up
as just a person who's lived more years. It doesn't
really mean anything, you know. Yeah, I know, I adored it.
(17:23):
It was really there were really special scenes for me.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
To film, Yeah, was it. I mean when you're like
seeped in the Penelopinis of Penelope where there are the
lines where Portia says things like oh, that looks wimming
on you and in the finale that you're a wonder.
How does how does that tough love from the past
two seasons swirl around in Penelope's mind inside of Nicola's mind?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Right? You know, it's interesting because I think she partly
would like to think she doesn't need the approval of
her mom, but she she does. And that's you know,
such a universal things like we all want our parents
to think we're good and we're like so I feel
like it does mean a latter for in those moments,
and she does get wrapped up, and I think particularly
in five and six when she's like she has I
(18:12):
love that scene and I love what Polly did with
it when you know she was saying like women don't
have dreams and you just need to forget like that
like killed me. It killed me. But also I was like,
that's because that's what Porschia had to do. That was
Porscha's life. When Penelope like drinks the kool aid for
a second, she goes, yeah, no, totally, I would love
just to only be a wife and that will totally
(18:33):
fulfill me. When you know the audiences are going.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
No, it wanted at all Yeah, we thought you were
drinking the kool aid with Lord Deviling. I was for
a minute. They're like, wait a minute, curious about if
your experience working with Claudia this time around. I know
you guys are like on set besties. Yeah, you guys
didn't have that connection as your characters this time though.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I was selfishly very sad about it because I adore
her and I love acting with her. It just she
is a thrilling actor to share the screen with because
she's so invested, she's so prepared, she cares so deeply
about what she's doing, and that is just like such
a satisfying experience. But yeah, I selfishly was like I
(19:23):
want more with her. I was like, I don't want
them to fallout because I want them to be But
it was, it was lovely, and I you know, I
loved you know, them getting to repair their relationship and
like that that moment you know when they're together in
the drawing room and they conspire and they're like, no,
we're gonna we're going to take rest of the down.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
We're going to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I was like, Oh, we're back, We're so back.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You've told us what this chapter of Penelope and working
on Bridgerton means for you and your career. I'm wondering
if you have any things you want to say to
the pollen stands. What do you hope bands walk away with?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I hope it brings them joy. I know that's maybe
very overly simplified to say, but I think that's a
thing that really special about Bridgington is you know, it's
not just to show that people watch once and forget about.
They rewatch it again and again and again, and it's
you know, it's this world and which love is celebrated.
It's you know, given such reverence, and it's beautiful, and
(20:29):
it's you know, I feel like there's a character in
here that everyone can relate to. You know, so many
people say to me, I'm such a Penelope and then
you know, there's so many people that are in eloise
or you know, a Kate Sharma or whoever, and it's
like it's amazing and also it's just like it's a
special thing and I'm just really grateful to them, and
I'm also grateful that they waited for so long for it.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Thank you so much for your time and for for
being Penelope. It was so great to watch you.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Oh well, it's it's an honor for me. Honestly, I'm very,
very lucky.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
We'll be right back with my conversation with Jess Brownew.
In this episode, we see so many different plot lines
converge and resolve, and some new seeds planted as well.
(21:25):
We have the Lady Whistledown, reveal, Francesca's wedding, a new
romance for Violet Bridgerton. The list goes on. I'm talking
to the woman who juggled them all the season three
showrunner Jess Brownew. I'm just wondering, like how you're feeling.
And it's such a big job, such a huge responsibility,
(21:50):
just like, how are you feeling?
Speaker 4 (21:53):
You did that?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You did that? Thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
I mean, I think the baby metaphor is apt. You know,
the baby has been fully pushed out and the world
and now it doesn't belong to me. It belongs to
the world. You know, it's its own, living, breathing creature,
and fans are interacting with it and finding their own
meaning in it, whether or not that was the meaning
(22:20):
we intended. And that's okay, you know, that's with all
art forms. The interaction with the audience brings a new level.
So it's been fun to watch.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Let's get into all of the pieces that really have
brought us here. And in pick Apart episode eight a
little bit, I am quite a fan of how Lady
Bridgerton starting with her how she's opened up, and I
(22:52):
loved Queen Charlotte right, and so I really loved the
moment between Lady Bridgerton and Lady Danburry. Tell me about
bringing that to the forefront of this episode.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, So, because we have this incredible backstory for Lady
Bridgerton and Lady dan Berry thanks to Queen Charlotte. It
gave us new depth in this relationship and a new
understanding of just how important these two are to each other,
and so we wanted to carry that forward into the season.
(23:28):
And there's this scene at the end of the episode
where Dan Barry and Violet finally talk about in a
very British way, they finally talk about kind of what
went down between dan Berry and Violet's father. We had
actually started writing the Anderson Violet storyline before the Queen Charlotte,
(23:53):
Agatha and Violet's father thing was a thing. Because we
were writing these simultaneously, it was really interesting. I was like, oh, Okay,
it gave it new meaning the fact that you know,
Violet was now dating dan Berry's brother, knowing that there
was another relationship between family and friend, and so it
(24:15):
was really, you know, an interesting scene to write. But
I think in a way, Violet needed permission from someone
because it's the first time she's dated, uh, and so
she gets that permission from dan Berry, and now the
very slow moving Violet might be able to move a
(24:36):
little more quickly.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah. Yeah, even in just how she reached out to
hold Lady Danberry's hand, just in that like, oh, sister, sister,
Like it was just so good, and it's just I
was like looking that and I just I really really
loved Lady Danberry's very She clearly has an allegiance to
(25:00):
Lady Bridgerton. You know, I just I love that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
And you know, yeah, that friendship is really important to
us because dan Barry does so much for the Bridgerton's.
But it was important in these last episodes to underscore
that Violet loves her for her, not just what she
does for the family. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, yeah, that is also really nice to see since
everything not everything, but there are a lot of transactional
under currents in this society, right, So that was really nice.
Speaking of transaction, Cressida showing up to visit Penelope, hamming
(25:42):
her up for some money before she reveals who she is.
Colin also inserts himself, but penelopees she's She's trying to
say I've got this, I can take care of this,
and Colin kind of makes.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
It worse ish, right, Yeah, he does.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Was this a moment for him to learn a thing
or two about his new wives or was it a
larger statement you and your writers were making with this
with that kind of toe stepping.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Yeah, it's a moment for Colin to learn something about
his new wife. It's also a moment for Colin to
learn something about himself. We talked a lot in the
room about how Colin sort of suffers from white night syndrome,
where he feels like he has to save the day
or help someone. And I think it speaks to the fact,
(26:42):
speaks to a certain insecurity in Colin that his worth
comes from being useful. And Colin's arc this season is
really about him realizing that he has enough to offer
just as he is. He doesn't have to be helpful,
he doesn't have to offer a joke or a you know,
or even a kindness like he is enough, and so
(27:05):
this is the moment when that really plays out for
him and then for Penelope. It was also extremely important
for us for her to save herself. She's been on
this arc of standing in the shadows and in this
final moment we sort of needed Colin to fail so
that she could be the one who knows it's up
(27:28):
to her.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So interesting how that's also captured in the way that
is shot too. There's like a Colin is speaking with
Lady Featherington and Eloise and they kind of like go
off to their own little portion of the room, not
(27:49):
very far from Penelope, but we like swing out and
we see that Penelope is kind of left out of
that circle of let's figure this out.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, that was very much written into the script. That
was meant to play as a moment where Penelope starts
receding back to the shadows again and suddenly she feels
like other people are making decisions for her about her life. Originally,
that scene was a lot longer, with all of the
people in that inner circle, you know, making plans and
(28:19):
talking over her as she gradually receded to the background.
But the visual in that episode I think does plenty
to communicate what's happening, So we were able to have
a slightly shorter scene.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
And with the retirement of my literary persona, I should
like to formally introduce myself previous Wallflower, current columnist, observer,
wielder of a quill, nobody unique and yet I have
(28:58):
my moments.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
And hopefully you will stay on to enjoy them with
me as we begin this next part of our journey.
Yours truly, Penelope Bridgiton.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
It was incredibly impactful for me to hear that lady
whistle down goodbye. I was just like, oh, my goodness,
this is such a moment. But of course the reveal,
the reveal is such a moment where we're at the
ball and penelopees in that beautiful blue gown. Did you
(29:47):
write in that she's in a blue gown? Or was
that just I just.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
I think it was a conversation that we had with
John Glazer about, yeah, taking her to a Bridgerton place.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
By the end of the season, it was beautiful. Can
you share all the thoughts that were going on behind
the scenes and the reason to ultimately have this moment
at her sister's Ball be the moment where she stands
in front of everyone and reveals who she is. Yeah, so.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
That final scene where Penn comes out as Whistledown was
something we talked about in the very first week of
the writer's Room. I think it's so emblematic of her
arc and her journey. Her whole story is about needing
to be seen and needing to come out of the shadows,
and so we knew that she needed to come out
in a dramatic way. It's also, you know, based on
(30:46):
the book of course. In the book, though it's Colin
who outs Penelope, and we definitely wanted Penelope to out
herself as far as scripting that moment. You know, first
of all, for her to come out at her sister's
ball has a certain dramatic irony in terms of the
sisters always being the ones to take up the spotlight
(31:11):
and for pen to be the underdog and then to
get the spotlight at her sister's ball. It completes that
narrative arc. The butterfly moment was really important to me.
We had written a Butterfly release into an earlier episode.
You know, if I'm giving you the insider Scoop. It
was initially supposed to be in episode six when Alice
(31:34):
and Will host their ball. We wanted a moment where
they really impressed the Queen, and we thought a butterfly
release that would be fantastic. And then it had made
it all the way through the different drafts of the scripts,
and then right before production, I went hold on, butterflies
are a Featherington symbol, you know, they are the Featherington crest,
and it obviously is the perfect metaphor for Penelope's journey,
(31:58):
and I was like, we have to save that for
the finale, like it has to be Penn's moment, and
so we scrapped the butterflies last minute in episode six,
Alison Gartshore, our production designer, came up with that fabulous
like flower box instead, and yeah, we were able to
SEEGI those butterflies in and I just think it's such
(32:19):
a beautiful visual and you know, a thematic metaphor for
Penelope finally coming out of her chrysalis in front of
all those people.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Even the moment where she's just got the little butterfly
on her finger, that.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Was so nice.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, and shout out to the CGI folks. That was
really beautiful.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I know, I was like, no butterflies shall be harmed
in the making of this butterfly scene, So those are
all cgi butterflies.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
We spoke with Luke Thompson about Benedict's journey this season.
I would love to talk about the choice for Benedict
and this beautiful showcase of queer love and his relationship
with Tilly, which is so layered, and at their first
(33:08):
ball together, Tilly essentially Warren's Ben that he should be
scared of her, and then like it just she took
She's completely changed course and is now like you know, hey,
I actually just kind of like want you to myself.
There's just such a rollercoaster ride there. And I would
(33:29):
love for you to talk about how that mosaic of
experiences came to be and what it's supposed to represent,
if it represents anything other than this is happening too. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
So for some people, whether they're gay or straight, obviously
gender is very important. But for Benedict, we were having
conversations about him in the writer's room. I just think
of him as being a fluid character. You know, he
sees humans for exactly who they are, and he's much
more interested in who he connects with, whether it's emotional
(34:01):
or sexual, rather than he is with gender. You know,
of course, the time period is very obsessed with gender, though,
so I think if there's anything that's holding him back
just a little bit when he's contemplating what he's going
to do between episodes six and seven, it's whether he
is going to, you know, give into society's rules. But
(34:25):
I think his connection with Tilly in that relationship, something
he's learned is the importance of defining your own rules,
and so ultimately that's what he decides to do. As
far as the breakup, that was something we really wanted
to get right because I think there is something really
beautiful about Benedict's desire to be open and to have freedom,
(34:50):
and we do definitely want to continue exploring his fluidity
as a character. But if you'll notice when Tilly says
what she says about you know, how nice it was
to want to commit for once, Like you said, that's
a big departure for her. You know, she was the
person who's like, I can't be tied down. You know,
she was widowed and she's just been trying to live
(35:13):
her life ever since then. And I think the feeling
she has for Benedict really catch her by surprise. And
there's that moment where she's talking about how nice it
felt to want to commit to someone for the first time,
where you just hopefully see a little flash of something
on Benedict's face. To me, I think that flash on
(35:36):
Benedict's face is him wondering why he's never wanted to
commit to anyone, whether it's a woman or a man.
You know, he doesn't want to commit to till. He
doesn't want to commit to Paul either. He hasn't even
ever really wanted to commit to any specific pursuit. He
gave up on the painting thing really quickly. He's given
up on, you know, the demimon, He's given up on
(35:57):
most things, And so for him, I think that's a
question that we're trying to plant to carry into season four.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Did you all have to tap into John Mullen's knowledge
when it came to writing about Tilly and Benedict at all?
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Yeah, we did. John Mullen, who is our historical advisor
who really specializes in regency stuff. I'm sure his title
is way fancier than that. He always reads the scripts
and tells us whether thinks so crazy or not, we
definitely are pushing the bounds of reality. I would say
(36:34):
a little bit something John cautioned us against, and we
have several historical advisors who cautioned us against the fact
that while it was normal for widows and even married
women to have affairs, they had to be very careful,
especially widows because obviously birth control was not what it
(36:58):
is today, and if if a widow were to get
pregnant out of wedlock, that could be very bad for her.
So the reality is is that, you know, I think
they were just really reliant on the pullout method, and
in our minds that's what's going on, and in our
minds it's working that whole time, which is, you know,
(37:20):
kids a lesson, very unrealistic, but for the sake of Bridgerton,
that's what's happening there.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Francesca, she kind of just was love at first sight
with her betrothed, and there are so many firsts for
Francesca that she just kind of ran with. And we
also for the Bridgerton universe, the bridger Verse, including marrying
off Francesca before being the lead of a season. We
(37:55):
typically see our key love story through a thing or
two and then become wed, and that is a really
fascinating choice. Oh do you all think that's a fascinating choice.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
I think it's a fascinating choice on Julia Quinn's part.
I mean, obviously we were the ones who kind of
decided how to lay out her story across the seasons,
but her book is a really unique one and one
of my favorites truly. So yeah, it's a it's a
more unusual story.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
If there's more to come with Francesca. Without giving any
spoilers away, do you what are your thoughts now about
Violet hesitation for the union and Francesca going off to
Scotland and everything.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Yeah, something that we wanted to portray with Francesca and
John this season is in a very non hierarchical way
that there are different types of love. There are diff
different types of love connections. They're not all the same
as the kind of love connections we've seen in the first,
(39:08):
you know, three seasons between our main characters, or the
kind that Violet had with Edmund. I think what John
and Francesca have is very real. They have deep respect
for each other, deep love for each other, a real
friendship and obviously there is attraction. You know, they feel
that from the first moment, as you alluded to, and
(39:30):
that is all incredibly valid and meaningful, but it is
not the kind of love the Violet had with Edmund.
You know, she had this she was friends with him first,
but I think there was real passion between her and Edmund,
and so, of course, speaking from her specific experience, that's
something she's hoping for Francesca to experience. There is that
(39:53):
moment after we see fran have her first kiss with
John at the altar, where there's a little glimmer of
something on her face, and you know, I think that's
open to interpretation, but it's maybe just a hint that
Violet might have been right about something. That's something we're
(40:16):
going to explore a little bit more deeply next season.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Well, Pollin, Penelope and Colin have a beautiful reconnection. It's
full of passion. The ton is whole once more, and
we even get a delightful flash forward to penn In
Colin's baby and their nieces. So this is a shift
(40:45):
from the books where they do have a daughter and
they name her Agatha. I'm just wondering what kinds of
conversations you all had to go in that different direction.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Well. Firstly, the relationship between Agatha, dan Barry and Penelope
in the book is much more central. The only reason
it wasn't as central in this season is we had
story in another place for dan Barry this season, and
it felt like, yeah, she was just busy on other stories.
(41:20):
And it also felt like it'd been two seasons of
dan Barry being very involved with the main couple, and
we just wanted to do something slightly different with her
this year. But the main reason we changed it has
very little to do with that, actually, and it's just
that we set up this Featherington Air storyline, and of
(41:41):
course at the beginning of the storyline, it was Portia
assuming that her two eldest girls were going to be
the ones to take the title to have the boy,
since they were the ones who were already married. But
obviously part of the arc this season is about penn
step out into the light and in some ways surpassing
(42:03):
her sisters or you know, coming up to meet them,
at least surpassing them honestly, and so it did feel
narratively like it felt very clean for Penelope to surprise
everyone and to be the one who comes out ahead
and ends up having the Air. So in order for
(42:23):
her to fulfill that storyline, she needed to have a boy,
and so that was the main reason we had to
change it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, were there any opinions to not have Penelope, to
not have that flash forward at all?
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Were there?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
No?
Speaker 4 (42:40):
I mean, I think we've always had a flash forward
in every season, and so when we were talking about
what the epilogue would be this year, it made sense
to resolve that storyline there. And the nice thing that
it does for us, just on a very practical level,
is it means that Penelope and Colin, and as they
are now the parents to the Air, they get to
(43:03):
keep living in Featherington House. And just speaking from the
standpoint of like, oh, we built this whole Featherington House set,
it's really nice that they get to live there instead
of having to build a whole new house for them.
So sorry, that's incredibly practical and not very sexy, but
you know, we just like seeing them, We like seeing
that house, and now we get to keep seeing it.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I love that insight. I love that insight.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Sometimes it's just.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
You know, the decisions are made on a very, yeah,
very practical level.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
So lots of easter eggs. We've covered some practical decisions.
Do you have any final thoughts for fans of this
season of Bridgerton or any moments that are very important
to you that we didn't cover.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot that happens at the end,
very end of the season, especially for book fans. There
are some major easter eggs at the end of the season,
and it's really difficult to talk about them without giving
any spoilers. One of them, of course, is the moment
that Francesca meets MICHAELA Sterling and I have one million
(44:13):
things to say about that, and there's a ton of
thought and a ton of historical research that went into
crafting that moment, but I just am going to have
to wait a minute to talk about it. So yeah,
I'm excited when when the right time comes to talk
about it. The other one is Benedict and Eloise's Goodbye.
(44:36):
There is something in something that gets discussed in there
Goodbye that you know is a moment from a book
that fans will surely recognize, and I can't really say
much more about it, but I think if you know.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
You know, Jess, thank you so much again for your
time and for you know, leading this season of Bridgerton.
It was an amazing ride. Thank you, Oh, thank you.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
It's been a fun ride for me as well. And yeah,
I hope people take care of our baby now that
it's out in the world and be sweet to it
and challenge it when it needs to be challenged. I'm
excited to have been a part of the discussion.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bridgerton the
Official Podcast. That's a wrap for another season of the
Shondaland series Bridgerton. If you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe,
share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review.
Bridgerton the Official Podcast is produced by Shondaland Audio and
(45:50):
Wonder Media Network. This show is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our
producer are Sarah Schleid, Edie Allard, and Carmen Borca Carrio.
This episode is edited by Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Our associate producers are Lauren Williams and Akiah mcnight and
(46:12):
I Am Your Host Gabrielle Collins. For more podcasts from Shondaland,
audio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland in
partnership with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your
exclusive peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. I'm
your host, Gabby Collins. Today we're talking about episode eight,
(00:21):
our season finale, Into the Light, and if you haven't
watched it yet, now is your last chance to catch
up before we spoil everything. Because it's the season finale,
we have a special treatment store for you. I'm joined
by Nikola Coughlin to talk about Penelopes Happily ever After
and Jess Brownell to talk through that major Lady Whistledown reveal.
(00:46):
But before we get into it, let's have a little
whistle download of this episode. In the last episode, Penelope
and Colin tied the knot, but they are not lost
in newly wed bliss and still can't forgive pen for
keeping the secret that she is Lady Whistledown. And Colin's
not the only one who now knows about Penn's secret identity.
(01:08):
Cressida Cowper has uncovered her ruse and is threatening to
tell the entire ton unless Penelope pays her a hefty sum.
Pen and her mother discover each other's secrets and learn
to see each other eye to eye. Meanwhile, Francesca and
Lord Kilmartin exchange vows and get ready to head to
the highlands of Scotland, much to Lady Bridgerton's dismay. Philip
(01:31):
but and Prudence Featherington decide to throw a ball as
one last hurrah before they have children. With a little
help from Penelope's pocketbook, the ball is a smash. Even
the Queen shows up, though she's there with her own
agenda to unmask Lady Whistledown once and for all. Penelope
spills the beans in front of the whole ton with
(01:53):
a moving speech, and the Queen gives her blessing that
Penelope may continue writing. As the season concludes, we fast
forward several months to see Penelope and Colin as new
parents to the Featherington Air and both are now successful writers.
We just love a happily ever after and a few
(02:13):
easter eggs for what is in store for next season
will be sure to have audiences taken to social media
now to kick off this finale episode, here's my conversation
with Nikola Cochlan. Okay, this year, returning to set after
(02:36):
a few seasons. But I'm wondering if this time around
there were any significant differences that you weren't expecting, anything
that you didn't realize until you got there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think the things I expected I knew, like the
workfield was going to be crazy. I knew it was
going to be pretty relentless for like the eight Onnes
eight and a half once however long was we were filming.
But I think it's interesting having shot two seasons before
and just that shift in focus and you know, knowing
what it was like to be, you know, supporting and
(03:12):
in the in the background, but knowing that the main
story was happening. I think that the emotional weight of
carrying the story where I was like, oh wow, this
does feel very very different than Luke and I would
joke about it and say it feels so yeah, so
different to you know, be the main story. You really
did feel it, you know, it felt like, you know,
(03:34):
everything was kind of coming around like just for you,
and yeah that that, yeah, I felt the weight of it.
But it was like exciting and emotional and all of
the things.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Would you say that you and Penelope have been on
a similar journey in any kinds of ways, And are
there any specific moments that you can speak to where
you felt that or had like a wildly excited or
equally nervous experience that Penelope may have had.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
There's so many and it's been different in each season,
but in this one in particular, I think, you know,
there's the huge theme in this season about her stepping
out of the shadows and into the light, and that
is something I really have to do myself also because
you know, it doesn't come naturally to me. It sounds
people rollalized on art to school. It doesn't come naturally
to me to be the center of attention, But in
my day to day it actually it doesn't. Like I'm
(04:25):
quite introverted in many many ways. That moment of her
at the top of the stairs and the reveal I
found really intimidating. But I had to be like, take
this moment, like, this is her story and you're telling
her story in this moment, and it's going to mean
so much to people, and like for the character, this
is what she would have wanted. But for me as Nikola,
(04:47):
they're going like, oh god, this is a lot of
people looking at Yeah, it's a lot, so you're having
to kind of take up that space and become the
leading lady. Was definitely it was a journey that I
went on throughout the whole season. It wasn't like that
I you know, stepped in day one and go, yeah,
I'm here, I'm the leading lady.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Like.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But also what was quite nice is I feel for Penn.
I don't think she comes into her womanhood or herself
instantly either, So I was on that journey with her
throughout the whole time.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
We'll be right back after the break. We're back with
more bridgeton the official podcast. All Right, the Friends to
Lover's Journey. Speaking of coming into womanhood, like, you also
(05:42):
have a huge transition in one of your relationships, your
friendships on this show, which matures in a way, right, Yeah,
so tricky to capture believably on screen, but you and
Luke Newton have such an under liable connection. You guys
are definitely friends in real life, and it makes that
(06:05):
I think that makes it feel so fresh and alive.
Your scenes together are so passionate. I'm thinking about the
carriage scene of course. Yeah, yeah, all the nu once
and deep discourse that you know, the fans are definitely
connecting with. Could you talk about that balance between friendship
and passion for Penelope and Colin's that special sauce.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
It was, do you know what? It was written so beautifully.
When Jess Brownell first got Luke and I on a
zoom a couple of months before we started filming and
talked us through the storylines, I was like, wow, because
as an actor, it's just like a gift that's being
given to you, Like you get to do all of
this and it's like the thing that you love doing.
So you go like, and it's wonderful also to be
entrusted with with so many storylines and so many ups
(06:51):
and downs and dramatic moments and funny moments, you go, Okay,
they think I can do this, which is really really nice.
But I looked out in a huge way. Luke by
my side, he is you know you've spoke to him.
He's just the kindest, He's such, he's got no ego,
He's very uncomplicated in the in the best way. Like
(07:14):
he was someone who I could have such an honest
dialogue with about how it was feeling. And you know,
it's it's eight months and it's very intense. You have
personal ups and downs, and you have days where you're
just bone tired and you're like, god, this is you know,
you sometimes feel the pressure of it because this show
we're lucky, it's so beloved. But then you're like, oh
god it, Like I hope I'm doing enough. Like I
(07:36):
hope I'm doing what, you know, service to the fans
and service to the viewers and to Chandal and all
the writers and all of this stuff. So I couldn't
have done it without him by my side, very genuinely,
and even you know, at the moment we're right in
the middle of the press tour and there's like no
time to breathe or like do anything, but you know
the fact that he's always there, like he's my right
(07:58):
hand man, you know, he just we've got each other's box.
So our relationship progress so so much in this season.
I'd always had so much time for I always liked
him so much, but now I have like a real
love for him truly, because he's Yeah, he's a really
special person in my life. It's I feel very lucky
to have him.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I'm sure he's lucky to have you too. You know.
That's really that's so sweet. I mean, there are not
so sweet moments in the show though, between the two characters. Right,
there's the whistle doown of the matter, Colin finding out
just before the wedding that you are a bona fide writer,
(08:37):
I know deeply important for Penelope to not be carrying
the burden, but also to maintain this other life she's
built for herself. The arguments between the two of you
in those moments are so relatable, right, Those scenes have layers, layers,
layers and layers. Can you speak to how much be
(09:00):
Lady Whistledown means to Penelope, even if it means hurting
her betrothed, her husband.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I was so thrilled when I found out that that
was going to be part of this story, because I
think this is an issue that women in the modern
world have to deal with all the time. I think
men are very threatened by successful women, by women who
know who they are, women who know what they want.
(09:28):
Men often don't know how to deal with that women
who have their shit together. And the thing with Penelope,
she's such an interesting ball of contradictions because she is
this shy girl, but she's this fucking great writer, and
she knows that, and that's because I think we all
have that within ourselves, Like there's certain things, you know,
I know I'm right at this, but then there's my
(09:48):
weak spot. Like people go, but how can she be
all these things? You're like, because humans are complex, We're
a million different things. But she is so steadfast and knowing.
And also she's like the most famous writer in London.
But I thin I think also it's an interesting thing
is when Colin is like a little but hurt about it.
There's of course the element of him being angry at her,
which he is entitled to be, and she went about
(10:09):
things completely the wrong way. But then also she's a
victim of circumstance. You know, she lives in a society
where she if she went, hey, mom, I want to
be a writer, they would have been like, Okay, no,
you're not go get married with this dude. You don't
want to get married to. She didn't have as many
choices as a modern woman would have.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It's funny because I was speaking to my friend about
this season and she was like, well, she should just
give it up, and I'm like, no, she shouldn't give
it up. Like I think like that about my job,
my career. I worked my ass off to get to
where I am. I had zero connections, I didn't come
from money. I had to do all of the worst
retail jobs you can imagine. And it's not that the
(10:46):
job's nice, it's just that people are not nice to you.
And you know, you're scraping together your coins to pay
your rent and stuff like that. And if some man
the like if you were the love of my eyesa
to me, you've got to give it all up, I'd
be like, you got to give me up because I'm
not doing that. And I just love that she has
that conviction in herself because it would have killed me
if she would have gone, like, yeah, I really am
(11:09):
marrying this guy, but I'm just gonna forget about all that. Like, No,
you should never give up who you are, even for
someone that you love deeply, because that's not someone who
truly loves you. Then if they're not willing to let
you shine, they're not the one. So many women have
had to deal with this.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Oh that is so true, and it's I just feel
like it's so relatable, and yeah, so many women, so
many people have gone through that very experience. The way
you play Penelope. I see I see her saying I
am this strong writer, career woman making this money, but
I'm also soft. Look at my shoulder, a little exposed here,
(11:51):
come get it. But you know I love that that Penelope.
It can be two things.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, that dichostomy is what makes her thrilling to play
because but people also, I laugh all the time about
the sort of meme that goes around of like you
wanted a complicated female character, you couldn't handle her, and
they feel like Harry brad John, You're like, let women
be lots of things, because if you think about real
life women, that's what they're like. Sometimes you can be
(12:22):
like a bad bitch at work and say like no,
this isn't okay and this is' and then you can
come home to the person you love and be super
soft and be like, you know, I'm baby here today
like that. You know that's all fine, and you shouldn't
have to hide one version of yourself or feel like
one version of yourself negates the other, because it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
The moment you reveal yourself to the time as Lady
whistle down, Oh my God, my heart tour, just a
little bit, just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I wrote about all of you, because I was captivated
by you living your lives still out in the open,
and then writing about all of you, I suddenly felt
as if I had a I had power, and for
anyone in this room who has ever had a taste
of that, it should know it can be intoxicating. But
(13:12):
I was careless with that power. It was easy to
cast dispersions from the shadows where I could not be found.
But I see now how much courage it takes to
live a life out in the open, to honor one's
weaknesses publicly for all to see, and to know, regardless
(13:32):
of the outcome, one always has worth.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
All of us talk, we gossip. Gossip is information.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
It forges bonds, especially for those of us who are
told so little. But I can no longer conceal the
biggest piece of information I have, my identity.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It was such an amazingly written speech, and I remember
that day because it's really funny, and like I mentioned
in an interview that I had, you know, towards the end,
I was crying because I was so tired. That was
like a day that I was crying just because I
was like it was it was everything and It wasn't
like bad crying, but I think the gravity of the
moment hit me, being like I'm doing this show and
(14:25):
I had like, this is such a moment. This has
been such an intense, amazing experience for me. And it
was right towards the end. It was like a final
couple of weeks and I was on the stage like
waiting for camerasysetu up and I just like tears just
started pouring down my face and I was like it
was a part exhaustion, part overwhelmed, part immense gratitude part.
But yeah, then the story of the headline of the
(14:47):
Hollywood Reporter was like Nicola Coughlin burst into tears at work,
and I was like, no, it wasn't. I had an
amazing time. It was just overwhelming. Yeah, was that.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Your very last scene that you shot?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It wasn't. No, the final the final final scene, the
final scene I shot with Luke. It was the final
intimacy scene between Colin and Penn.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Okay, I've reserved for the end.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That was like the final one, And yeah, I had
a cry after that, but many tears towards the end. Yeah,
love love bit of a cry.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's so good. Let's talk about you and Polly Walker,
who plays Porscha Feathering. Yeah, one of the greatest surprises
of the season is the growth in the relationship that
Penelope has with her mum. With the growth of Penelope,
Porscha also tries to, in her own way, find the
love and understanding of her daughter. So Polly said, she's
(15:44):
naturally a very maternal person.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
She is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
What was it like working with her and specifically on
this hard relationship this season? It was so satisfying.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I love. I was dying for it to happen, actually,
because I've always felt like there was so much of
Portia in Penn that Penn didn't see herself. But I'm like,
you didn't. We have a it's very irish saying. We
say you didn't lick it off the stones, so basically
means like it didn't come from nowhere, like the apple
doesn't fall too far from the tree, like you will
have picked up something from your your parents kind of
(16:20):
kind of thing. So yeah, she didn't lick it off
the stones. And like, yeah, but that like, you know,
that savviness, that business present she has, you know, the
like her like her sharpness and her wit. She I
think would like to think, maybe at the beginning of
the season, like, oh, that's just me, that's just I'm like,
but your mom has that. You get so much of
that from her. She doesn't want to accept it, but
I think I love those moments of her. I loved
(16:42):
those scenes where I really adore Polly and she's funny
because she's so on Porsche in everyone. You know, she's
so soft and lovely and caring and yeah, she's heaven
to work with. But yeah, I loved those moments and
also Penelope having to sort of also admit fault in
(17:03):
some ways and going, yeah, I didn't see you like that,
and I didn't you know, her seeing her mother as
a human being, which is you know, it's such an important,
you know moment in adulthood when you finally realize your
parents are just humans and they're not like grown up
as just a person who's lived more years. It doesn't
really mean anything, you know. Yeah, I know, I adored it.
(17:23):
It was really there were really special scenes for me.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
To film, Yeah, was it. I mean when you're like
seeped in the Penelopinis of Penelope where there are the
lines where Portia says things like oh, that looks wimming
on you and in the finale that you're a wonder.
How does how does that tough love from the past
two seasons swirl around in Penelope's mind inside of Nicola's mind?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Right? You know, it's interesting because I think she partly
would like to think she doesn't need the approval of
her mom, but she she does. And that's you know,
such a universal things like we all want our parents
to think we're good and we're like so I feel
like it does mean a latter for in those moments,
and she does get wrapped up, and I think particularly
in five and six when she's like she has I
(18:12):
love that scene and I love what Polly did with
it when you know she was saying like women don't
have dreams and you just need to forget like that
like killed me. It killed me. But also I was like,
that's because that's what Porschia had to do. That was
Porscha's life. When Penelope like drinks the kool aid for
a second, she goes, yeah, no, totally, I would love
just to only be a wife and that will totally
(18:33):
fulfill me. When you know the audiences are going.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
No, it wanted at all Yeah, we thought you were
drinking the kool aid with Lord Deviling. I was for
a minute. They're like, wait a minute, curious about if
your experience working with Claudia this time around. I know
you guys are like on set besties. Yeah, you guys
didn't have that connection as your characters this time though.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I was selfishly very sad about it because I adore
her and I love acting with her. It just she
is a thrilling actor to share the screen with because
she's so invested, she's so prepared, she cares so deeply
about what she's doing, and that is just like such
a satisfying experience. But yeah, I selfishly was like I
(19:23):
want more with her. I was like, I don't want
them to fallout because I want them to be But
it was, it was lovely, and I you know, I
loved you know, them getting to repair their relationship and
like that that moment you know when they're together in
the drawing room and they conspire and they're like, no,
we're gonna we're going to take rest of the down.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
We're going to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I was like, Oh, we're back, We're so back.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You've told us what this chapter of Penelope and working
on Bridgerton means for you and your career. I'm wondering
if you have any things you want to say to
the pollen stands. What do you hope bands walk away with?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I hope it brings them joy. I know that's maybe
very overly simplified to say, but I think that's a
thing that really special about Bridgington is you know, it's
not just to show that people watch once and forget about.
They rewatch it again and again and again, and it's
you know, it's this world and which love is celebrated.
It's you know, given such reverence, and it's beautiful, and
(20:29):
it's you know, I feel like there's a character in
here that everyone can relate to. You know, so many
people say to me, I'm such a Penelope and then
you know, there's so many people that are in eloise
or you know, a Kate Sharma or whoever, and it's
like it's amazing and also it's just like it's a
special thing and I'm just really grateful to them, and
I'm also grateful that they waited for so long for it.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Thank you so much for your time and for for
being Penelope. It was so great to watch you.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Oh well, it's it's an honor for me. Honestly, I'm very,
very lucky.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
We'll be right back with my conversation with Jess Brownew.
In this episode, we see so many different plot lines
converge and resolve, and some new seeds planted as well.
(21:25):
We have the Lady Whistledown, reveal, Francesca's wedding, a new
romance for Violet Bridgerton. The list goes on. I'm talking
to the woman who juggled them all the season three
showrunner Jess Brownew. I'm just wondering, like how you're feeling.
And it's such a big job, such a huge responsibility,
(21:50):
just like, how are you feeling?
Speaker 4 (21:53):
You did that?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You did that? Thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
I mean, I think the baby metaphor is apt. You know,
the baby has been fully pushed out and the world
and now it doesn't belong to me. It belongs to
the world. You know, it's its own, living, breathing creature,
and fans are interacting with it and finding their own
meaning in it, whether or not that was the meaning
(22:20):
we intended. And that's okay, you know, that's with all
art forms. The interaction with the audience brings a new level.
So it's been fun to watch.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Let's get into all of the pieces that really have
brought us here. And in pick Apart episode eight a
little bit, I am quite a fan of how Lady
Bridgerton starting with her how she's opened up, and I
(22:52):
loved Queen Charlotte right, and so I really loved the
moment between Lady Bridgerton and Lady Danburry. Tell me about
bringing that to the forefront of this episode.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, So, because we have this incredible backstory for Lady
Bridgerton and Lady dan Berry thanks to Queen Charlotte. It
gave us new depth in this relationship and a new
understanding of just how important these two are to each other,
and so we wanted to carry that forward into the season.
(23:28):
And there's this scene at the end of the episode
where Dan Barry and Violet finally talk about in a
very British way, they finally talk about kind of what
went down between dan Berry and Violet's father. We had
actually started writing the Anderson Violet storyline before the Queen Charlotte,
(23:53):
Agatha and Violet's father thing was a thing. Because we
were writing these simultaneously, it was really interesting. I was like, oh, Okay,
it gave it new meaning the fact that you know,
Violet was now dating dan Berry's brother, knowing that there
was another relationship between family and friend, and so it
(24:15):
was really, you know, an interesting scene to write. But
I think in a way, Violet needed permission from someone
because it's the first time she's dated, uh, and so
she gets that permission from dan Berry, and now the
very slow moving Violet might be able to move a
(24:36):
little more quickly.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah. Yeah, even in just how she reached out to
hold Lady Danberry's hand, just in that like, oh, sister, sister,
Like it was just so good, and it's just I
was like looking that and I just I really really
loved Lady Danberry's very She clearly has an allegiance to
(25:00):
Lady Bridgerton. You know, I just I love that.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
And you know, yeah, that friendship is really important to
us because dan Barry does so much for the Bridgerton's.
But it was important in these last episodes to underscore
that Violet loves her for her, not just what she
does for the family. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Yeah, yeah, that is also really nice to see since
everything not everything, but there are a lot of transactional
under currents in this society, right, So that was really nice.
Speaking of transaction, Cressida showing up to visit Penelope, hamming
(25:42):
her up for some money before she reveals who she is.
Colin also inserts himself, but penelopees she's She's trying to
say I've got this, I can take care of this,
and Colin kind of makes.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
It worse ish, right, Yeah, he does.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Was this a moment for him to learn a thing
or two about his new wives or was it a
larger statement you and your writers were making with this
with that kind of toe stepping.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Yeah, it's a moment for Colin to learn something about
his new wife. It's also a moment for Colin to
learn something about himself. We talked a lot in the
room about how Colin sort of suffers from white night syndrome,
where he feels like he has to save the day
or help someone. And I think it speaks to the fact,
(26:42):
speaks to a certain insecurity in Colin that his worth
comes from being useful. And Colin's arc this season is
really about him realizing that he has enough to offer
just as he is. He doesn't have to be helpful,
he doesn't have to offer a joke or a you know,
or even a kindness like he is enough, and so
(27:05):
this is the moment when that really plays out for
him and then for Penelope. It was also extremely important
for us for her to save herself. She's been on
this arc of standing in the shadows and in this
final moment we sort of needed Colin to fail so
that she could be the one who knows it's up
(27:28):
to her.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
So interesting how that's also captured in the way that
is shot too. There's like a Colin is speaking with
Lady Featherington and Eloise and they kind of like go
off to their own little portion of the room, not
(27:49):
very far from Penelope, but we like swing out and
we see that Penelope is kind of left out of
that circle of let's figure this out.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, that was very much written into the script. That
was meant to play as a moment where Penelope starts
receding back to the shadows again and suddenly she feels
like other people are making decisions for her about her life. Originally,
that scene was a lot longer, with all of the
people in that inner circle, you know, making plans and
(28:19):
talking over her as she gradually receded to the background.
But the visual in that episode I think does plenty
to communicate what's happening, So we were able to have
a slightly shorter scene.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
And with the retirement of my literary persona, I should
like to formally introduce myself previous Wallflower, current columnist, observer,
wielder of a quill, nobody unique and yet I have
(28:58):
my moments.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
And hopefully you will stay on to enjoy them with
me as we begin this next part of our journey.
Yours truly, Penelope Bridgiton.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
It was incredibly impactful for me to hear that lady
whistle down goodbye. I was just like, oh, my goodness,
this is such a moment. But of course the reveal,
the reveal is such a moment where we're at the
ball and penelopees in that beautiful blue gown. Did you
(29:47):
write in that she's in a blue gown? Or was
that just I just.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
I think it was a conversation that we had with
John Glazer about, yeah, taking her to a Bridgerton place.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
By the end of the season, it was beautiful. Can
you share all the thoughts that were going on behind
the scenes and the reason to ultimately have this moment
at her sister's Ball be the moment where she stands
in front of everyone and reveals who she is. Yeah, so.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
That final scene where Penn comes out as Whistledown was
something we talked about in the very first week of
the writer's Room. I think it's so emblematic of her
arc and her journey. Her whole story is about needing
to be seen and needing to come out of the shadows,
and so we knew that she needed to come out
in a dramatic way. It's also, you know, based on
(30:46):
the book of course. In the book, though it's Colin
who outs Penelope, and we definitely wanted Penelope to out
herself as far as scripting that moment. You know, first
of all, for her to come out at her sister's
ball has a certain dramatic irony in terms of the
sisters always being the ones to take up the spotlight
(31:11):
and for pen to be the underdog and then to
get the spotlight at her sister's ball. It completes that
narrative arc. The butterfly moment was really important to me.
We had written a Butterfly release into an earlier episode.
You know, if I'm giving you the insider Scoop. It
was initially supposed to be in episode six when Alice
(31:34):
and Will host their ball. We wanted a moment where
they really impressed the Queen, and we thought a butterfly
release that would be fantastic. And then it had made
it all the way through the different drafts of the scripts,
and then right before production, I went hold on, butterflies
are a Featherington symbol, you know, they are the Featherington crest,
and it obviously is the perfect metaphor for Penelope's journey,
(31:58):
and I was like, we have to save that for
the finale, like it has to be Penn's moment, and
so we scrapped the butterflies last minute in episode six,
Alison Gartshore, our production designer, came up with that fabulous
like flower box instead, and yeah, we were able to
SEEGI those butterflies in and I just think it's such
(32:19):
a beautiful visual and you know, a thematic metaphor for
Penelope finally coming out of her chrysalis in front of
all those people.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Even the moment where she's just got the little butterfly
on her finger, that.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Was so nice.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, and shout out to the CGI folks. That was
really beautiful.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I know, I was like, no butterflies shall be harmed
in the making of this butterfly scene, So those are
all cgi butterflies.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
We spoke with Luke Thompson about Benedict's journey this season.
I would love to talk about the choice for Benedict
and this beautiful showcase of queer love and his relationship
with Tilly, which is so layered, and at their first
(33:08):
ball together, Tilly essentially Warren's Ben that he should be
scared of her, and then like it just she took
She's completely changed course and is now like you know, hey,
I actually just kind of like want you to myself.
There's just such a rollercoaster ride there. And I would
(33:29):
love for you to talk about how that mosaic of
experiences came to be and what it's supposed to represent,
if it represents anything other than this is happening too. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
So for some people, whether they're gay or straight, obviously
gender is very important. But for Benedict, we were having
conversations about him in the writer's room. I just think
of him as being a fluid character. You know, he
sees humans for exactly who they are, and he's much
more interested in who he connects with, whether it's emotional
(34:01):
or sexual, rather than he is with gender. You know,
of course, the time period is very obsessed with gender, though,
so I think if there's anything that's holding him back
just a little bit when he's contemplating what he's going
to do between episodes six and seven, it's whether he
is going to, you know, give into society's rules. But
(34:25):
I think his connection with Tilly in that relationship, something
he's learned is the importance of defining your own rules,
and so ultimately that's what he decides to do. As
far as the breakup, that was something we really wanted
to get right because I think there is something really
beautiful about Benedict's desire to be open and to have freedom,
(34:50):
and we do definitely want to continue exploring his fluidity
as a character. But if you'll notice when Tilly says
what she says about you know, how nice it was
to want to commit for once, Like you said, that's
a big departure for her. You know, she was the
person who's like, I can't be tied down. You know,
she was widowed and she's just been trying to live
(35:13):
her life ever since then. And I think the feeling
she has for Benedict really catch her by surprise. And
there's that moment where she's talking about how nice it
felt to want to commit to someone for the first time,
where you just hopefully see a little flash of something
on Benedict's face. To me, I think that flash on
(35:36):
Benedict's face is him wondering why he's never wanted to
commit to anyone, whether it's a woman or a man.
You know, he doesn't want to commit to till. He
doesn't want to commit to Paul either. He hasn't even
ever really wanted to commit to any specific pursuit. He
gave up on the painting thing really quickly. He's given
up on, you know, the demimon, He's given up on
(35:57):
most things, And so for him, I think that's a
question that we're trying to plant to carry into season four.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Did you all have to tap into John Mullen's knowledge
when it came to writing about Tilly and Benedict at all?
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Yeah, we did. John Mullen, who is our historical advisor
who really specializes in regency stuff. I'm sure his title
is way fancier than that. He always reads the scripts
and tells us whether thinks so crazy or not, we
definitely are pushing the bounds of reality. I would say
(36:34):
a little bit something John cautioned us against, and we
have several historical advisors who cautioned us against the fact
that while it was normal for widows and even married
women to have affairs, they had to be very careful,
especially widows because obviously birth control was not what it
(36:58):
is today, and if if a widow were to get
pregnant out of wedlock, that could be very bad for her.
So the reality is is that, you know, I think
they were just really reliant on the pullout method, and
in our minds that's what's going on, and in our
minds it's working that whole time, which is, you know,
(37:20):
kids a lesson, very unrealistic, but for the sake of Bridgerton,
that's what's happening there.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Francesca, she kind of just was love at first sight
with her betrothed, and there are so many firsts for
Francesca that she just kind of ran with. And we
also for the Bridgerton universe, the bridger Verse, including marrying
off Francesca before being the lead of a season. We
(37:55):
typically see our key love story through a thing or
two and then become wed, and that is a really
fascinating choice. Oh do you all think that's a fascinating choice.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
I think it's a fascinating choice on Julia Quinn's part.
I mean, obviously we were the ones who kind of
decided how to lay out her story across the seasons,
but her book is a really unique one and one
of my favorites truly. So yeah, it's a it's a
more unusual story.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
If there's more to come with Francesca. Without giving any
spoilers away, do you what are your thoughts now about
Violet hesitation for the union and Francesca going off to
Scotland and everything.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Yeah, something that we wanted to portray with Francesca and
John this season is in a very non hierarchical way
that there are different types of love. There are diff
different types of love connections. They're not all the same
as the kind of love connections we've seen in the first,
(39:08):
you know, three seasons between our main characters, or the
kind that Violet had with Edmund. I think what John
and Francesca have is very real. They have deep respect
for each other, deep love for each other, a real
friendship and obviously there is attraction. You know, they feel
that from the first moment, as you alluded to, and
(39:30):
that is all incredibly valid and meaningful, but it is
not the kind of love the Violet had with Edmund.
You know, she had this she was friends with him first,
but I think there was real passion between her and Edmund,
and so, of course, speaking from her specific experience, that's
something she's hoping for Francesca to experience. There is that
(39:53):
moment after we see fran have her first kiss with
John at the altar, where there's a little glimmer of
something on her face, and you know, I think that's
open to interpretation, but it's maybe just a hint that
Violet might have been right about something. That's something we're
(40:16):
going to explore a little bit more deeply next season.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Well, Pollin, Penelope and Colin have a beautiful reconnection. It's
full of passion. The ton is whole once more, and
we even get a delightful flash forward to penn In
Colin's baby and their nieces. So this is a shift
(40:45):
from the books where they do have a daughter and
they name her Agatha. I'm just wondering what kinds of
conversations you all had to go in that different direction.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Well. Firstly, the relationship between Agatha, dan Barry and Penelope
in the book is much more central. The only reason
it wasn't as central in this season is we had
story in another place for dan Barry this season, and
it felt like, yeah, she was just busy on other stories.
(41:20):
And it also felt like it'd been two seasons of
dan Barry being very involved with the main couple, and
we just wanted to do something slightly different with her
this year. But the main reason we changed it has
very little to do with that, actually, and it's just
that we set up this Featherington Air storyline, and of
(41:41):
course at the beginning of the storyline, it was Portia
assuming that her two eldest girls were going to be
the ones to take the title to have the boy,
since they were the ones who were already married. But
obviously part of the arc this season is about penn
step out into the light and in some ways surpassing
(42:03):
her sisters or you know, coming up to meet them,
at least surpassing them honestly, and so it did feel
narratively like it felt very clean for Penelope to surprise
everyone and to be the one who comes out ahead
and ends up having the Air. So in order for
(42:23):
her to fulfill that storyline, she needed to have a boy,
and so that was the main reason we had to
change it.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, were there any opinions to not have Penelope, to
not have that flash forward at all?
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Were there?
Speaker 1 (42:40):
No?
Speaker 4 (42:40):
I mean, I think we've always had a flash forward
in every season, and so when we were talking about
what the epilogue would be this year, it made sense
to resolve that storyline there. And the nice thing that
it does for us, just on a very practical level,
is it means that Penelope and Colin, and as they
are now the parents to the Air, they get to
(43:03):
keep living in Featherington House. And just speaking from the
standpoint of like, oh, we built this whole Featherington House set,
it's really nice that they get to live there instead
of having to build a whole new house for them.
So sorry, that's incredibly practical and not very sexy, but
you know, we just like seeing them, We like seeing
that house, and now we get to keep seeing it.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I love that insight. I love that insight.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Sometimes it's just.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
You know, the decisions are made on a very, yeah,
very practical level.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
So lots of easter eggs. We've covered some practical decisions.
Do you have any final thoughts for fans of this
season of Bridgerton or any moments that are very important
to you that we didn't cover.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot that happens at the end,
very end of the season, especially for book fans. There
are some major easter eggs at the end of the season,
and it's really difficult to talk about them without giving
any spoilers. One of them, of course, is the moment
that Francesca meets MICHAELA Sterling and I have one million
(44:13):
things to say about that, and there's a ton of
thought and a ton of historical research that went into
crafting that moment, but I just am going to have
to wait a minute to talk about it. So yeah,
I'm excited when when the right time comes to talk
about it. The other one is Benedict and Eloise's Goodbye.
(44:36):
There is something in something that gets discussed in there
Goodbye that you know is a moment from a book
that fans will surely recognize, and I can't really say
much more about it, but I think if you know.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
You know, Jess, thank you so much again for your
time and for you know, leading this season of Bridgerton.
It was an amazing ride. Thank you, Oh, thank you.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
It's been a fun ride for me as well. And yeah,
I hope people take care of our baby now that
it's out in the world and be sweet to it
and challenge it when it needs to be challenged. I'm
excited to have been a part of the discussion.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bridgerton the
Official Podcast. That's a wrap for another season of the
Shondaland series Bridgerton. If you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe,
share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review.
Bridgerton the Official Podcast is produced by Shondaland Audio and
(45:50):
Wonder Media Network. This show is executive produced by Sandy Bailey,
Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our
producer are Sarah Schleid, Edie Allard, and Carmen Borca Carrio.
This episode is edited by Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.
Our associate producers are Lauren Williams and Akiah mcnight and
(46:12):
I Am Your Host Gabrielle Collins. For more podcasts from Shondaland,
audio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Gabrielle Collins
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com