Best of Summer 2025: My Top 5 Summer Standouts

This week, we’re doing something different, BA Fam! Mandi takes us on a trip down memory lane, looking back at her five favorite moments from the summer of 2025. From thought-provoking conversations to laugh-out-loud guest appearances, these episodes stood out not just while recording, but even more when listening back with fresh ears.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

-Why replaying past episodes feels so different from being in the interviewer’s chair

-The most popular and talked-about episode of the summer—and why it resonated

 

Let’s Connect:
IG: @brownambitionpodcast | @mandimoney
Email: [e-mail]

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, hey va fam, welcome to I think this is
the first time I've ever done this. This is not
your usual Brown table, This is not your usual episode
of Brown Ambition. This is a look back at my
favorite moments of Summer twenty twenty five. I actually did
the math, and I added up the number of episodes
we have aired since late May through now at the

(00:28):
end of August. Y'all, I've aired something like thirty four episodes.
That's insane. That's more episodes than some podcasts put out
in an entire season. And I'm giving you that in
one summer. Okay, I've been working hard and it was
difficult to come up with my five favorite moments. But

(00:49):
I started from I started by basically asking myself, you know,
what were the episodes that when I think about the
past summer, the ones that I have enjoyed actually going
back and listening to you And I try to listen
to ninety nine point nine percent of every episode, even
after it's aired, even after I experienced it while I was.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Recording the show. But I just care that much.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I genuinely, I honestly have a different experience when I'm
listening back to the episodes versus when I'm in it
as the interviewer. And this may come as no shock
to y'all, because hello, black woman syndrome. I am so
hard on myself as an interviewer, and there's multiple times
I have hung up, I'll say, or stopped recording an

(01:33):
episode with a guest or a couple of guests, and
I've just been like, man, was that good? Is be
a fan going to enjoy this? Did I teach them
anything new? Did they learn anything new? Did I ask
some compelling questions? Or did I ask the right questions
that led to compelling answers. I care a lot, and

(01:53):
y'all are always so kind and you know, always so
positive in the feedback that I've gotten.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
But that all that is to say.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I listen back to the show, and almost every time
I'm like.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh, well, damn, that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
It's just like it's so funny. It doesn't matter how
many times that happens. I'll still give myself a hard time.
And then a week of two weeks or three weeks,
however long it takes before the episode airs will go by.
I'll listen to it on Fresh Ears as a listener,
and I enjoy the hell out of it. I kind
of love the show that I make. Isn't that crazy?

(02:29):
I hope y'all do too, But let me get into it.
Today we are looking back at five five key favorite
moments from Summer twenty twenty five, and I want to
kick things off by first looking back at my conversation
with relationship coaches and dating experts Francesca Hogy and Spicy Mody.
Spicy Motty is the host of Sneaky Links on Netflix,

(02:52):
which 'all should go check out. Francesca Hogy came out
with a relationship dating advice book this past year that's
called how to Find True Love, and I really enjoyed
our conversation. I went into it thinking We're going to
have a great conversation even though I'm an old, married lady,
and that's exactly what happened. These women are so sharp,
so brilliant, so good at what they do, and I

(03:15):
think there's a reason why it was the most listened
to episode of the summer. That's right, these ladies took
the crown. That's not the only reason why I love it,
and you're going to hear why in this clip. Enjoy.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
I think there's signs that we miss that we ignore.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
I think that that's what we have to understand as women.
I trained with the Gotmans and one of the things
that they speak highly on is a woman's power of influence.
If a man cannot be influenced by her, she has
no power. And so that's where we need to wake up.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
And I agree, and I think when it comes to dating,
the way that I talk about this is like you
want to see and we're being so heteronormative here, So
any who's like not straight, I see you and I
acknowledge you. And this everything that I'm saying to me
actually applies to everyone, which is when you're dating somebody
and early dating, I'm like, if somebody is not an

(04:09):
early dating able to like meet you where you are,
and that's how I think of it, right, So even
like like like a take a common scenario, somebody matches
with somebody on a dating app or maybe you meet
them in person, and now you're texting buddies, right, And
now you're texting and they're texting you, good morning, beautiful,
how's your day?

Speaker 6 (04:26):
And you and you have this.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
Whole like superficial non relationship, like this texting relationship, and
when people they'll be like, oh God, just like why
does he just keep sending me this? And I'm like, well,
do something about that, like don't just respond to those
messages every day, like say like, hey, you know what
if you actually like if you if you want to
get to know me, if you want you know, if
you want to move things forward, if you want to

(04:48):
get like let me know, Like you just put the
ball in his court. And that to me is like Okay,
who can meet you there? Who can be like okay, yes,
Like I'd love to take you out. What time you know,
when are you available? What is your weekend looking like? What?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Like?

Speaker 7 (05:00):
That's what I'm looking for.

Speaker 5 (05:01):
And I want people to like feel empowered to say,
like I don't just have to go along with the
just how it is or how this other person is behaving.
I actually am co creating this dynamic because that's the thing.
And I think in dating, I maani, tell me what
you think about this. But I think so many people
are so focused on I want somebody who checks all

(05:22):
these boxes, and they just are so focused on the
other person that they're not actually thinking about but what
happens when we come together? What are we co creating together,
because that relationship that the two of you are going
to have is its own entity. It's a brand new dynamic.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's never existed before.

Speaker 5 (05:38):
And if you are from the very beginning just like, well,
I'm just gonna sit here and hope that you know,
they read my mind and hope that they step up
Like that's not what are you doing? You know, you're
setting yourself up for not great success in the long term.
In my opinion, what do you think.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
Mar I think that it's extremely important that you always
check in with self, right, So even in so that's
like to start with the first communication piece that you said, right,
I don't like the way that this guy is messaging
and he hasn't asked me out yet. I know you
aren't as heavy as differentiating between the masculine and feminine,
but the masculine will say this is you know, this
is wasting my time. If you're not that into me

(06:13):
and you're not taking me out, I gotta go. What
I practice is the feminine, which is what is the
language that he needs to hear to get what I want.
So I really enjoy speing with you. It is so stimulating.
I would love for us to take this to you know,
maybe a FaceTime and potentially see if the energy match
is there. Once we establish that, then we can move

(06:34):
them to, Oh I really loved this. I would love
to see you in person. You know we had a
great connection. It is it's in the language that we
use that makes them feel good about themselves. But also
checking in with well, when I do this, how does
he make me feel about me? Do I like how
he is responding to me? If I don't like how
because I know I'm coming with it because I have
the skill. But if he's not showing up and reinforcing

(06:58):
the great juju that I'm giving, then I know it's
not a good fit. And then the second element is
I'm a huge advocate for something that I created called
the pizza. Five qualities is the crust that you believe
makes him a good person. Okay, if this these are
the five core values that you have, and his character
doesn't align with those five core values of the crust,
then we can't move on to the sauce. Because the

(07:20):
sauce is what are the five qualities of what I
need to feel loved?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Right?

Speaker 4 (07:24):
I know how I give love? These are these five qualities,
But how do I need to experience it from him.
What is the treatment, because if he can't come through
with the treatment, I don't care if he checks off
all the good person things. Now, the treatment is what
actually helps you guys to be involved, to do the
dance together, to show his interest and his pursuit. And
then the last five or the toppings, Well, what do
I need to be sexually attracted and take my clothes

(07:45):
off for him? Because the toppings are always negotiable? Right
if he comes with the crust and the sauce, you're
gonna want to be naked for him. So what are
those things? And I think that we have missed it.
I think we're like, well, we need him to earn this,
and we need him to be this, and we need
him to, you know, take me out on ten dates
before you like. There's so much noise out there about
relationships and not coming from people like you and I Francesca,

(08:08):
who have studied this, who have practiced this, who have
implemented this, who have tested it on clients, and the
internet is telling people twenty thousand different things about what
to do, coming from people who it's not their purpose.
It is not their purpose. They are not walking and
listening to God's voice. When they're giving you that information,
they're speaking from wounds, they're speaking from sometimes because I'm spiritual.

(08:30):
Sometimes it's the enemy. They don't want us in healthy relationship.
They're just venting. They grabbed a mic and they're venting.
But they're not guiding us to love. And that starts
from us when within the feminine, I'm sorry. We are
the masters of love. We are the masters of love,
and if we're not tapping into it, then that's also
going to have a ricochet effect.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
On our men.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
But no, we don't stay longer than we should. We
test for it all the time.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
What are some early relationship green flags for y'all, like
if you're seeing these things from the beginning, even if
it seems like a fixer upper, because I always equate
dating to kind of like looking for investment properties. You're
not going to get everything you want in one house,
but what has got good bones? What can we work with?

Speaker 4 (09:08):
I always test for problem solver, whether I'm presenting to
you a challenge that I'm having at work, or I
need this fixed, or I don't know what I'm going
to do about you know this flat sire, or I
don't you know, know how to fix his bookshelf? Does
he lean in and say I got you, okay, or
I'm going to hire someone to do it for you.
I prefer him to do it himself. But as long

(09:31):
as it gets fixed, handyman is very attractive because that shows,
you know, his ability to build. It shows the masculine
min or, you know, extreme builders. If he doesn't want
to build with me or for me, then he's not
going to actually invest.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
In me later.

Speaker 4 (09:44):
And so to me if he's like, oh my gosh,
I'm so sorry you experienced that, like you know, what
are you going to do? But like to me, it's
the it's the problem solving mode because I don't want
to work that hard. I don't want to live a
hard life. I want to live a spicy life.

Speaker 8 (10:02):
Jessa, what about you?

Speaker 3 (10:03):
I definitely agree.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
I agree with that, like somebody who is a problem solver,
somebody who is proactive generally, so proactive about getting to
know you, proactive about spending time with you. I mean,
the thing that makes me crazy is when people and
again I'll just go back to this heterodynamic members. You know,
like when when women are like doing all they can

(10:24):
to try to get this guy to ask them out again.
And I'm like, if he's not, if there's not the enthusiasm,
if there's not the like actual proactive drive of like, yes,
I want to spend time with you, I want to
get to know you better. I care about what it
is that you care about. Like, those are the things
that I think are really great green flags. And I
also think that, you know, people who have personal responsibility, right, so,

(10:46):
people who take responsibility for their lives, for their choices,
like you know. So the opposite of that is somebody
who's blaming everybody for everybody else for all their problems.
Is their exes terrible, everybody's terrible, everybody's out to get them,
you know. The opposite of that somebody who's like not
that there isn't lots of nonsense that happens in the world,
but they are basically just feel empowered enough, like I

(11:08):
actually take responsibility for my actions. Because if you are
in a relationship with somebody who does not take responsibility
for their actions, you were going to suffer for sure.
So I'm really looking for that enthusiasm, that proactivity and
just like, Okay, this is a responsible person who actually
because if you think about, like, if you're looking for

(11:29):
a life partner, do you want to be with somebody
who doesn't know how to pay a bill on time
or you know, who doesn't know how to like, you know,
say I'm sorry. I'd be like, yeah, actually I mess
that up. I need to do better. Like it's it's
not going to be such a happy relationship. And who
cares about you and who's excited about you? Right, because
that's the other thing. You don't want somebody to just
be with you like all right, well you're.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Here, all right, be a fan.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Let's get into moment number two of my favorite top
moments from Brown Ambition Summer twenty twenty five. It is
this interview you with bron Ambition book club pick my
very first selection, sky Full of Elephants author Cibo Campbell.
The cool thing about this excerpt is that a lot
of y'all have probably never heard this before because this

(12:13):
episode or this interview only was published in the Patreon
for members of the broad Ambition Patreon. Because sky Full
of Elephants was my first book club selection, Cibo was
so gracious as to not only join me on the
podcast this past spring, but to join me again just
for the Patreon. So if you were in the patreon,

(12:34):
luckily you've already gotten to hear this and tune in.
And if you have not joined the patreon yet, I
don't know what y'all they're waiting for. You can join
for free today. Just go to patreon dot com slash
Brown Ambition. There's also a link in my bio. There's
all sorts of benefits in the Patreon. The biggest one
is that you become a member of the broad Ambition
book Club. You also get access to backstage passes to

(12:57):
the Virtual Brown Table recordings. We do so occasionally I'll
send out a link and say, if you guys want
to be in the studio audience, come on down. You
get to see how the sausage is made, and you
also get exclusive video content before the rest of our
audience does, before you can watch it on YouTube with ads.
I will often post video episodes of the show in

(13:19):
advance on Patreon behind or not behind I guess not
behind a paywall.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
In front of the paywall.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
If you join one of our paid tiers, you get
access to those video episodes in advance before anyone else does.
You get to watch them ad free but yeah, you
can just join generally as a free member. If you'd
like to, just go to patreon dot com slash brown
Ambition check it out. I do blogs, I do live
q and as on the Patreon. I love checking in

(13:50):
with bafam and it's a cozy, cute little community. So
come on down, okay, And if you decide to join
and become a paid member, I love you all the more.
That extra little boost helps me continue putting out more
and more shows like this.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Y'all.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Notice I've been doing three episodes a week. Let me
tell you that's a lot of work. It's a lot
of help that I need, support that I need, and
I'm not gonna lie. It's very expensive to create this
kind of content and to do it as consistently and
at the level of quality that I strive for. So
every little bit helps, and y'all, becoming patreons is just

(14:27):
it's the greatest gift to me. It's a real vote
of confidence and I just love it. And you best
believe I am putting every single dime I get back
into the show and creating amazing content for y'all, like
this interview with Cebo Campbell. So let me get out
of my own way, and this snippet of our larger conversation. Again,
you can watch the full interview if you join the

(14:48):
patreons to go check it out. But Sebo is talking
about turning his book into a film. He actually gave
me a scoop when he joined me in the book
Club Patreon. He let us know that Laurence Fish is
gonna produce his movie. He's bought the rights for it.
He may even star in it, so it's very exciting.
But in this snippet, one of our Patreon BA fan

(15:10):
members got to ask him a question about a part
of the book that left her wondering what happens to
the central female character, Sidney at the end of the book.
No spoilers here. Wait, that's a damn lie. This is
a actual spoiler. This is an actual, huge spoiler. So
if you have not read the book yet, you might
want to skip this clip. But for those of you

(15:30):
who have, I love this question. I love Sebo's answer.
It's very insightful and just interesting the way that he
thought about wrapping up and tying up that character story
arc within the book. Please enjoy. You know I'm actually
gonna let this be a fan member in Tondra, come
on in, girl, But you are going to get to
ask Cibo a question.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Hey, Dondra, So I said so because I.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Don't have my at my assistant helping me, and clearly
I should have. I accidentally sent the BA Book Club
my the link to join as a guest, so you
weren't supposed to be able to join as a guest.
But since you're here and Tondra was the very first
one to r s VP, would you like to say
quick hello and then ask you.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
A question about the book. You gotta unmute yourself. You're
so cute I can't hear you.

Speaker 8 (16:26):
All right, there we go listen. I wasn't ready to
be on camera.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
I was so rude of me.

Speaker 8 (16:33):
I'm so not ready for that. Hello. How you guys
doing nice meeting as well? I know mister hang on
just one second, Manny. I don't know if you remember
I did.

Speaker 9 (16:44):
I was one of the people who want to coach
and call with you was yeah, and I was one
that I wanted to leave my teaching job to try
out trading. I was doing invest with Taylor's trading in
no classroom.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Or in the cossroom.

Speaker 7 (17:02):
Yes.

Speaker 8 (17:05):
Oh my gosh, I wasn't ready for a question yet.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Okay, that's okay.

Speaker 7 (17:11):
I was not ready.

Speaker 8 (17:12):
Can I come back, Can I think about something?

Speaker 6 (17:14):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (17:14):
Actually, I think I do have a question.

Speaker 9 (17:21):
When when I'm thinking about the daughter, when the daughter
in the book, how it all kind of ended. She
floated away and she went to the opening to.

Speaker 8 (17:37):
I just I wasn't clear. I was like, am I
I wasn't sure.

Speaker 9 (17:42):
I wasn't sure if she was still with us or
did she leave us? Or what was that in the end?
Or is that a book two coming?

Speaker 10 (17:54):
It's it's a little bit of all of those things.
So she's with us. I think, you know, I want
it to be up for interpretation. But I've wanted to
create a parallel with the beginning of the book and
the end of the book. Whereas in the beginning of
the book, the first time you meet her character, she's,
you know, her family's walking into the lake behind her house,

(18:14):
and that scene ends with her floating in the water
and she's staring up at the empty sky and she
feels completely disconnected from everyone.

Speaker 8 (18:21):
She's lost her whole family.

Speaker 10 (18:22):
And at the end of the book, she's floating in
the water she's staring up at a sky full of stars,
and that is the moment in which Charlie actually hits
the machine and she feels connected to Charlie, but it
doesn't okay, And so the idea is perhaps she comes
back and then she like you know, becomes more integrated
in the community and all that. But ultimately, what I

(18:45):
arrived to is, I thought, in the course of the
time that she meets Charlie, which is really just like
a week, like it's not that long from the time
that he picks her up in Wisconsin, they go down
to Mobile, go to Chicago, go to Mobile, and she
learned that what was going on in Range Beach, she
learns about her father being put in while he was

(19:05):
put in prison, she learns why the event happened. That's
a lot for a nineteen year old person to have
the process, and so I wanted her to just go
off on her own to process that. And I didn't
feel like she knew Charlie well enough yet to be
comfortable going back to him and being like, help me
process these emotions that I have. She had been in

(19:26):
solitude for a year in Wisconsin prior to that, so
I thought she would want to have her solitude again.
But in that solitude she'll find her blackness.

Speaker 11 (19:35):
I think.

Speaker 8 (19:36):
Okay, I had one more comment when it was like
he was protecting the mom instead of telling the daughter.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
Why.

Speaker 9 (19:46):
Yeah, I just feel like a lot of time as
an African American, as a black person, we're oftentimes trying
to take care of everybody else's feelings besides our own.
When it comes to things we protect, we're so busy
and like we'll take the blame for something that's not
even ours to protect someone who didn't think about protecting us.

Speaker 12 (20:09):
M you know.

Speaker 8 (20:11):
Why, why where is that coming?

Speaker 5 (20:14):
I mean, I mean is that I guess it's global
that feels we feel global about that.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Definitely someone who sent your ass to prison for a
heinous crime he did not have.

Speaker 10 (20:23):
In my mind, it's just true to our nature.

Speaker 6 (20:25):
You just said it.

Speaker 10 (20:26):
You said we all feel this way. We all feel
like we need to be protective. And so Charlie, naturally,
I think, feels that same way, protective of the mother,
but also protective of who he is in relationship to her.
Remember he's and I think this is true. A lot
of black men, they find validity in whiteness, right, They
find that they are made of a person of value

(20:49):
by being accepted by whiteness and being condemned by whiteness
creates the opposite effect when you feel like someone you
don't have value, and it's and I think he needed
to overcome that in order to make himself feel like
he was worthy, to have to be in a position
of being a father, worthy of being in a position
to be a contributor of society, all those things. I'm

(21:11):
actively right now, Tandra. I'm working on the film for this.
And when you're transitioning from novel to film, there's just
the medium requires it of you to try to create narrative.
Without you don't have the paper, you can't write it,
so you have to like create it with imagery, create
it with these sort of moments of communication between two characters,

(21:32):
and that dynamic of understanding why Charlie is making the
decision to not tell his daughter. It translates so profoundly
on film because you can see the pain, you know,
you can see the thing that he's a formally incarcerated
person and he's like, I don't want to have a
chance to be clean. Now my daughter doesn't know these
things about me, But the moment that I tell her,

(21:53):
I'm back to being Charlie in prison again, and I
don't want to be that, and so all for all
those reasons, it's almost like he's protecting a very vulnerable
version of himself, which I think is what we do
is in order to kind of make ourselves feel like
we are people of value, we will lay down at

(22:14):
the feet of other people to be in support of them,
because there's a reciprocal hope for reciprocal effect.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
At least, Hey, ba fam, We're going to take a
quick break, pay some bills, and we'll be right back. Okay,
we're coming into clip number three. Top moment of Summer
twenty twenty five. I got to give it to my girl,
Menda Hearts. Menda Hearts is a prolific writer. Her book
The Memo became every Black Girl's career guide back in

(22:43):
I think it was published in like what twenty nineteen,
twenty eighteen, something like that, not that long ago. Since then,
Menda has gone unto publish at least four different career
strategy books, including her most recent one, which is Talk
to Me Nice. This book is different. This book Talked
to Me Nice really talks about about how we as
employees can engage differently with our employers to help us

(23:05):
cope with what can y'all know become a toxic work environment.
And what I like about this interview is we talk
about particularly what companies can do, like the people who
actually have power can do, to make it a less
hostile work environment for women of color. Minda is my girl.
Please go follow her everywhere and grab her book. Talk
to me nice. I love the work that she's doing.

(23:26):
She's also turned the memo into a short film. She's
on her second or third short film now. So this
woman knows no labels, no boundaries, no bounds. She is
someone who has a creative idea and then executes it
and I just love her. Also, I founally got to
meet her last summer, and she has such a tiny
pocket rocket. I feel like the most powerful women come

(23:47):
in these like these little CUTI pu twity packages. I mean,
I'm not trying to take away her batty status. She
definitely is a baddie, but the nuggets I get to meet,
the powerful little nuggets. I'm talking about Menda, I'm talking
about Morga Debonds, zarn A garg I swear these people
are just little pocket rockets. I don't know what to
say about that. I just feel like, if you're under

(24:08):
five to five, are you just all baddies? Are y'all
just out here doing the damn thing? There's something, there's
something our short queens have and I just appreciate it.
Enjoy this clip with Menda Hearts again. The name of
her book is talk to Me Nice. If y'all don't
have the memo, I don't, I don't know what's wrong
with you, please.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Go get it.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
But this is you're coming out with your fourth book
this summer, Yes, and this one is very this one's
quite different. So if your new book is called talk
to Me Nice, talk to me Nice. The seven trust
language is for a better workplace. So this isn't so
much targeting to like, well, you tell me, but it
doesn't feel like it's targeting like the worker. It's more
like the institution, like how can we actually as companies

(24:50):
as workplaces, figure out how to better communicate with our
staff our employees, but also like how we as the
worker bees can communicate better with leadership? Right?

Speaker 12 (25:00):
Yes, yes, And it's are you a leader and you've
somehow we wrote a trust maybe not intentionally, but it's
happened and there's a communication breakdown. How do you get
that back with your staff? But also if you're an
employee and you can't get what you need, how do
you ask for it without losing your job? Right, So
it's giving both parties the language they need to be
able to communicate better and close that expectation gap.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
So why this book, Now.

Speaker 12 (25:25):
That's a great question, to be honest, I really didn't
think I was going to write any more books. Manby
the memo right within and you were more than Magic
are three of my babies, and they were focused and
centered around black and brown women and young women in
the workplace or in their journeys to finding their voice.
And I thought, you know what, I cracked the door
open for others to write their books.

Speaker 6 (25:46):
And I felt like I did my big one with
these books.

Speaker 12 (25:49):
And I just didn't feel like I needed to add
any more to the conversation that I wanted others to
take the baton and do that. And then two years
ago I woke up at like three o'clock in the
morning to use the bathroom. Right, I'm getting older, so
I you know, I can't sometimes sleep through the night.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
You know, you know, we know.

Speaker 6 (26:07):
So I got up.

Speaker 12 (26:08):
And I thought, and I had this like voice in
my head saying, what if there were love languages for
the workplace, what about the trust trust languages? And I
just kind of wrote that in my notes and kind
of set it to the side, and then I kept
thinking about it and coming back to it. I'm like, yeah,
you know, we expect trust in our romantic relationships, our
platonic relationships. Why wouldn't we expect that in a place

(26:30):
that will spend ninety thousand hours of our life at
the workplace?

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Is that real?

Speaker 6 (26:35):
That? And so it's like, why wouldn't we want trust
there too?

Speaker 12 (26:40):
And so I just started kind of mulling over it,
and I'm like, well, maybe maybe I have one more
book in me. And I call this my crossover album,
because of course I still talk about some of the
voices that aren't heard inside the workplace and how trust
is being roded. But trust is a universal issue, a
global issue, and so I wanted to be able to
tackle that a little bit differently in this book.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, listen, it's been five years since the summer of
twenty twenty, I was in Corporate America, at the time,
I think, like so many other workers, you get the
emails from your CEO about how heartbroken they are, but
what's happening in this country and you have these new commitments.
Everyone's got a die director. You know, they've got their
their statements on what's happening in the racial awakening and

(27:22):
racial reckoning that we're going through, and they all make
these big lofty promise and blah blah blah blah blah.
Five years later, I know you couldn't have planned it,
but the trust is broken in so many ways because
we're just seeing this, like I mean, this complete about
face in the other direction. Of course now with our
new leadership and power, So I feel like this book
is extremely timely. I'm just I'm wondering, like your perspective

(27:45):
as a black woman or for black women who working
in corporate today, like is there any going back? Like
can we are we actually capable of trusting organizations again?
Because there's so much cynicism, rightfully so about the lip
service that leader pay to our community only to then
turn around when it better suits them and go back

(28:05):
on what they say, what their promises are.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Is that trust rebuildable?

Speaker 6 (28:09):
Yeah? You know, what, Mandy.

Speaker 12 (28:10):
I think the answer is yes, And that kind of
is the thesis of talk to me nice. Is if
trust can be built, it can be broken, and if
it can be broken, it.

Speaker 6 (28:20):
Can be rebuilt.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Right.

Speaker 12 (28:21):
But it takes an intentionality to be able to do that.
And I think part of it is we just don't
know how to ask for it. Because if you're my
manager and you said all these wonderful things about how
I am important in the workplace and this is inclusive,
and then now you're saying something different and demonstrating something different,
I don't know how to come to you and ask you, like, hey,
what's going on? You know, can we have a conversation?

(28:44):
You know, six months ago this was important and now
it seems like it's not. That might ruffle some feathers, right,
and I can't go to you and say, you know,
I don't trust you anymore. You know, it's just not
going to pan out well. But I think that through
the language of the trust languages to say, you know what,
I would love to talk about what a little more
transparency looks like. I noticed that this was a priority
for the company, and I just want to understand that,

(29:05):
you know, going forward, what does it look like?

Speaker 6 (29:08):
Right? Can we have a conversation like that?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Right?

Speaker 12 (29:10):
Built on transparency, and transparency is one of the trust
languages in my book. But transparency isn't about telling everything,
giving all the information. Transparency is also saying I don't
have all the answers right now, but as things arise,
as you feel a concern, feel comfortable enough to approach
me with questions, and if I have the answers, I'll
provide them, and if I don't have them, I'll tell

(29:31):
you that. Right. That would make me feel so much
better as a black woman or anybody who feels like
they're on the margins to say, Okay, maybe I could
trust a little bit versus let's just sweep everything under
the rug and there's nothing to see here.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, I mean, trust is a process, and usually we
learn about the love languages, right. And I'm in a
I've been married for eight years now and together with
my partner for a lot of years, an embarrassing number.
I don't know, it feels crazy. I'm like, I don't
understand how I have an eight year marriage. Aren't they
twenty four? I think doesn't make any sense. But love languages,

(30:06):
I think they are like they're very and even gen
Z talks about love languages and all that, what do
you think, like, are the seven workplace love languages? Are
they similar? Are they different? I mean there's seven of
them versus like, however many four or five?

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah? Do they mirror the love languages?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Like? Can you tell us a little bit about them
without giving everything away in the book, because y'all got to.

Speaker 6 (30:30):
Go get it, Yes, please get it.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Tell me about the seven trust languages.

Speaker 12 (30:35):
Okay, So for me and the five love languages, one
of my languages is words of affirmation, right, and so
one of the trust languages is acknowledgment because I think
oftentimes what I found is people would come to me
after a talk or in my DMS and they would say, minda,
I don't trust my manager, I don't trust HR, or
I don't trust my colleagues, like you know, they're backstabbish.

Speaker 6 (30:57):
All the things.

Speaker 12 (30:57):
And when I found is what people were really saying
is what they weren't saying. Maybe they don't trust their
manager or their colleagues, and that might be true, but
what they were really saying is that a need that
they have is not being met because that person isn't
aware that you even need it, right, So, for example,
I would say, well, what you're really saying is you
need more acknowledgment if you were acknowledged for some of

(31:17):
the work that you're doing, these projects that you keep.
You know, you've been traveling for twelve months out of
the year and nobody has said anything. Now they're sending
you on another assignment. You just need some acknowledgement. If
you had a little more acknowledgment, would that provide a
little more trust for you? And then we started to
unpack what's actually underneath the trust. And if you know
that acknowledgment is important to you, how do you ask

(31:39):
your manager or your colleague for it? Right in a
way that they could probably give that to you, because
nobody's going around the workplace with a crystal ball saying,
what does Mandy need for me to show trust?

Speaker 5 (31:50):
Right?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
But if I liked a couple therapy.

Speaker 6 (31:54):
If I know that, then I couldn't know.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
My coffee order. But and wait, no, wrong topic, right.

Speaker 6 (31:59):
Wrong topic?

Speaker 12 (31:59):
But I think we do act like that, right, Well,
you should know I've been working here for ten years.
You don't know that I need to be acknowledged well,
you know, I have to manage like a fifty other
people and one hundred other things. So no, I don't
know that. But now if you tell me that, and
now I know that that's what you need, then maybe
I can provide that.

Speaker 8 (32:15):
Right.

Speaker 12 (32:15):
And so we're closing this expectation of trust. And I
feel like through the seven trust language, so acknowledgment is one,
transparency is another. Sensitivity. I feel like sensitivity right now
in our workplaces is so important because we are talking
about certain things that are a little more taboo that
we thought we could talk about even last year, that
we're not able to bring up now, you know. And

(32:37):
so what would it look like even if I sit
on one side of the aisle?

Speaker 6 (32:41):
I think about, you know what if I say this
thing to a.

Speaker 12 (32:44):
Group of people who I know they feel differently about
my political choices, is that going to e road trust
or enhance trust? So I'm going to practice the language
of sensitivity to say, you know what, this isn't the
time for me to wear my red hat to the function, right,
you know, so be cause that's going to e road
trust and vice versa. So I think if we're just
a little more in tune and self aware about what

(33:05):
people need to do their best work. Then we can
have an environment where everybody can thrive and not just survive.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
I don't want to interrupt.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
The love language is we've got sensitivity, transparency, I hope
you have them written down. Transparent, appreciation, no acknowledgment, acknowledgment.

Speaker 6 (33:22):
So you got three there.

Speaker 12 (33:24):
Another one is security, and that's emotional, intellectual, and physical right.
So it's not just psychological safety, but what about your
intellectual property. When you're in a meeting and you say
the big idea and then somebody takes it as their
own right, you want to know that you could voice
your concerns and not worry about somebody running off and
saying that it's their own.

Speaker 6 (33:44):
Another language is feedback. Right.

Speaker 12 (33:46):
Oftentimes you might not trust somebody, but what is it
that you really need? Is it that you need more feedback?

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Right?

Speaker 12 (33:52):
And feedback could provide a little more trust in that relationship.
Another one follow through. Is it that you don't trust
hr or do you need to follow through? When you
make a concern and then there's a conversation that's being had.
I provide the information, they respond after they've had time
to process it and now we find a solution, we
need a feedback loop. And then lastly is demonstration, and that's,

(34:15):
you know, the action. So for example, you mentioned DEI
being like a big topic of conversation. So many companies
were like down for the cause, ten tones down, and
now all of a sudden they're like that Simpson meme
where Homer's like moving back from the from the bushes
and nobody wants to talk about it. But demonstration is saying, okay,

(34:36):
even though we know that politically we might not be
able to say these things right now, we're demonstrating that
inclusion is still important here. You don't have to be
a woman or LGBTQ or a person of color and
worry because we're still committed to the things because we're
demonstrating that each and every day, right and so again,
demonstration is the action. So when I think about trust,

(34:59):
it's a noun, an averb, and it's very important for
us to be activating that each and every day. Trust
is in a one time event, it's a culture, it's
a lifestyle inside the workplace.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
I'm digesting everything you said, and I'm wondering, could we
add an eighth love language, and could it be money.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Could it be like pay me nice?

Speaker 6 (35:20):
That's that acknowledgement, right, That's that's the acknowledgment.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Okay, I think a lot of people are feeling like, well,
I would love to be like given feedback and all that,
but I'd also like to be paid well, So that's
under the acknowledgement umbrella.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Okay, good, just making sure.

Speaker 12 (35:34):
Well, listen, money is a love is my love language,
my trust language, all the all the.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Languages money talks.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
You know, Like, one of the things about this type
of book is I feel like it's incredible and it's
such a great tool, but it can be challenging if
both people on the sides of a conversation don't have
the same framework to work from. So what advice would
you have for someone who's who's reading your book And
let's just say they are, you know, they are having
issues with higher ups or hr whoever, and they're wanting

(36:05):
to come to the table and have a conversation using
one of these trust languages, but they are getting resistance
on the other side because that person is not as
committed to having like a productive conversation. How do you
get this book in the hands of like all the
managers and the senior level people, so that when we
I'm putting myself in the in the shoes of an employee,
come to them like they are prepared to have that

(36:27):
kind of conversation.

Speaker 6 (36:29):
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question.

Speaker 12 (36:31):
And one of the things I was so intentional about
with this book is providing tons of scripts so that
the employee, even if the person on the other end
doesn't even know what you're talking about, because you're probably
not gonna say, hey, my trust language, Bob is acknowledgment
and sensitivity, because they're not going to know probably what
you mean. But I have a framework in language that

(36:52):
you could use to say, you know what, I've been
on this project for the last several months. What really
helps me do my best work is when you provide
me a little more feed Is that something we can
partner on right now? That signals to that person They
don't have to know what any of this means, but
they do know what feedback looks like, right, And then
we get to provide examples of after I finish a sprint,
it would be great to know did I hit expectations,

(37:15):
did I meet them, did I succeed them? Whatever that
might look like to you. And then this provides us
a framework because now we can stop creating a narrative
in our mind that may or may not be true
about if this person is invested in our success or not.
They might not just be thinking about that you need that, right. So,
now that I've positioned myself to actually have a conversation
that they're aware of, now we could sit back and say, Okay,

(37:38):
now I'll know if I could trust them or not
if they're starting to provide me that feedback. And so
my hope is that managers will get this book and
read it, and even if their employees don't understand what
trust languages are, you ask them what does trust look
like for you on the team? Right, because I want
to provide that for you it's less about trust issues
and more of a communication solve, right, Because we don't

(37:59):
know how to talk to each other and people are
fearful to bring certain things up. So I'm hopeful that
talk to me nice will create the necessary conversations to
be able to talk about trust that in a way
that it doesn't have to be scary, right, because I
think sometimes when we put it on the table that
trust might be broken.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
People don't want to.

Speaker 12 (38:15):
Accept that because that can look kind of negative or
sound kind of negative. But when we talk about what
do we need to communicate better here and what do
we need to make sure that everybody gets what they
need to do their best work, I feel like it's framing.
I don't know if you. I'm sure your listeners have
heard it's not what you say about how you say it.
So if we package it up in a way that
can kind of manage up to our leaders, then I

(38:37):
feel like it's a it's a possibility, and we got
to give it a shot. Like if people know what
you need, then maybe they can provide it. But if
we never say it, you know, closed mouths don't.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Get fed, right.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
And I love that you have those scripts in there. Yeah,
especially at a time when it feels like people are running.
My cousin, she's twenty six, twenty seven. She's like, I
am using chatchepeach to help me figure out what to
say back to this person I'm texting. It's like a
challenging her roommate or whatever. It's a challenging conversation. But
we need human we need that, we need the mendas.

(39:09):
And it's like if y'all have an opportunity to get
someone who has been giving professional workplace advice for How
long have you been in this business?

Speaker 6 (39:17):
Twenty fifteen? Oh my god, you know since I was
five years old.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
I think, yes, you were a child prodigy. That's right,
because you're fifteen.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
You've been doing it for so long, and I just
love I think that this is the access to, you know,
someone like you. It's how we get our message out there.
It's how we give advice without actually being able to
touch every single person. I mean, I want to talk
a little bit about repairing broken trust and who is
responsible for that. I guess it's a two part question,

(39:48):
which I know everyone loves, especially me who can never
remember anything. But I'm thinking about how do we repair
broken trust in the workplace? And then also the second
part of that is like who's responsible? Like who really
carries the responsibility of repairing that kind of trust? How
do we make companies care about breaking our trust? You know?

Speaker 6 (40:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (40:07):
Well, I'll say this trust isn't just nice to have,
but it's good for business. There are tons of data
that's from Edelman's Trust Barometer to Gallop poll and they
say that when trust is present employees are twenty one
percent more productive, fifty percent more of your employees are retained,
and forty percent less burnout. So it's not just oh, kumbayah,
we trust each other, you know, let's do a trust fall.

(40:30):
It's more than that. It's actually good for the bottom line.
So trust is good, you know, for everybody. So that
should be part of our pillars and our values because
that's going to benefit us in the long run. So
for those people who are like, oh, we don't need trust, no,
you absolutely do.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Like I'm paying you, So what are we even hear
to do? Like, just do your job.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I don't have to say it in the way that's
your This is giving, like very I feel like this
is going to be like catnip for all right. Media
personalities who just love a snowflake moment, like, listen to
this book. They want us to learn their love, their
trust languages. Just do your job, like we know that
to me is what's coming up.

Speaker 6 (41:08):
And it will and people will say, well, why do
I need to do all that? Right? But the reality
is when.

Speaker 12 (41:14):
Trust is broken, we can't do our best work. And
when trust is broken, our mental health hangs in the balance. Right,
and we're anxious and we're fearful, and again we don't
feel secure in our roles and we're going to leave.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Right.

Speaker 12 (41:25):
Fifty percent of people leave their workplaces because of their manager.

Speaker 6 (41:28):
So think about that.

Speaker 12 (41:30):
If our managers were equipped with the tools they need
to be successful, then that helps them be the coach
that their team needs them to be. And so trust
is a two way street, right. Just like any of
the main love languages that Gary Chapman put out into
the world, nobody can give me words of affirmation if
I don't articulate that that's what I need.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Right.

Speaker 12 (41:49):
So with the workplace trust languages, your manager may need
help knowing what you need because they're just not thinking
about you day to day in that way and that
you know, that's another issue you. But if I empower
myself and take it back and let them know what
good looks like to me, I have a primary language,
I have a secondary language, and I have a tertiary language. Now,

(42:09):
you don't always have to use that particular language till
they understand what you're talking about. But if you can
get under the hood and say, oh, actually these are
the things that I need, that's empowering, right, and you
take back the narrative of I work in a low
trust or a high trust environment. So I would love
to say that our managers are responsible. HR is responsible

(42:30):
and as a individual contributor and some degree we are responsible.

Speaker 6 (42:34):
For how our careers move forward.

Speaker 12 (42:37):
And I want to see us make trust great again
because we all need it. If you live in Tokyo,
you want trust. If you live in North Dakota, you
want trust right. And so that is something that we
all understand. You may not understand what it's like to
be a black woman in the workplace, but you sure
know what it feels like when trust is on the floor, right,
And that's something we can all link arms with. And
when we can talk about a universal word like trust,

(42:59):
then we can solve for some of the other issues
that I think people weren't ready to solve for.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
I mean, obviously I do a lot of work with
women of color, like through my career coaching practice, and
there's many many who I can think about who come
to me and they are just so burnt out, not
by like over being overworked, but by having consistent and persistent,
like chronic underappreciation from their workplace from you know, being

(43:27):
sort of like kicked around, like moved around, whether it's
like you're moving managers too frequently, there's not a lot
of investment, and they aren't even sure sometimes why they're
unhappy at work. They're just like, I am miserable.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
I need to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
And what I like about the concept of this book
is not that I'm ever here to stop anyone from
pursuing a new goal. I do a lot of like
I do a lot of telling girls to quit. I
love it.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Sometimes you just have.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
To get out of there, yes, but in this economy
you can't always just quit and go on to the
next thing right away. This is almost like it's a
toolkit to say this can make it maybe more tolerable
for you. It empowers us to take some action that
can actually make things a little better for us potentially.
And I just hope that, like if you're listening to

(44:17):
this podcast, ba Fam, I hope that it doesn't feel
like one more thing that we have to do, we
have to carry because managers aren't trained and companies don't
care about us. We got to care about ourselves. But
like feel that empowerment that we can actually get more
of what we need because we have the language that
you know, a book like talk to me nice is
providing us.

Speaker 12 (44:38):
Yeah, thank you Amandy for saying that, because I don't
want us to feel the burden to have to do
one more thing, but I wanted the one more thing
to feel like we're empowered.

Speaker 6 (44:46):
Right.

Speaker 12 (44:47):
So, if we are in an environment where we're not
able to leave right now, we haven't had certain conversations,
what would it look like to give ourself permission to
have it?

Speaker 6 (44:55):
Right?

Speaker 12 (44:56):
So now we can say, Okay, maybe Gina is an
vested in my success. Maybe she isn't, But now that
I've told her here's what I need to do my
best work, perhaps they can now provide that to us. Right.
And I don't think anybody shows up in the workplace
to say, how can I row trust with so and so?

Speaker 6 (45:13):
Today? I don't feel like we're that delicious.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
You know, like synetic psychotic.

Speaker 12 (45:18):
I mean, there might be one or two that think
that way, but for the most part, I think we
just are moving at ninety thousand miles per hour. We're
not thinking and considering people. And what this boils down
to is how do we restore respect, humanity and dignity
inside the workplace, right, even when we have to have
difficult conversations, and I just think oftentimes we just don't
have the language. And so I'm hopeful that talk to

(45:40):
me nice will provide language for the employee and the
manager to be able to talk to each other without
their let's avoid each.

Speaker 6 (45:48):
Other in the hallway when we see each other or
on zoom. So that is my gift to the world.

Speaker 12 (45:54):
The hopefully we can talk to each other a little
bit nice when we know what words need to be said,
or at least start to have them those conversations.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break,
pay some bills, and we'll be right back. All right,
ba fam, We're back. Speaking of pocket rocket batties, y'all.
Clip number four comes from my interview with the one
and only Zarnagarg. Zarnagarg is just the Oh. I don't
know how to describe this woman. I feel very fortunate

(46:27):
to have gotten to have a conversation with her.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Her book was.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
If I had had the book club when I read
Zarna's book, she would have been my first pick, hands down, incredible,
incredible memoir. Her memoir is called This American Woman. Listen
to it and then go buy the physical copy. I
say it's worth it because there's extra content in both.
But the best thing about the audible version of her
book or wherever you get your audiobooks, Libby is amazing

(46:54):
that she reads it herself, and her story is just
so so.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Emotional, so intense.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
I mean, it's inspirational what she had to overcome and
the humor with which she did it. The fact that
she didn't even have a comedy career up until like
seven years ago, Like if that I mean six seven
years ago. This woman was a stay at home mom
raising three kids in Manhattan and having failed that multiple
businesses before she even thought about launching a comedy career.

(47:22):
And now she has a Hulu special, she's selling out
shows around the world, she's got Kevin Hart on speed dial,
and amidst all of that, she sat down with me
to talk about her memoir, This American Woman, and just
delight us all. So why not have one of my
favorite moments from the show as one of my top
moments of Summer twenty twenty five. I had to do it.

(47:44):
It had to be done. Please enjoy. I mean, can
we just go back in time a little bit, because
as you're talking about that sort of not seeing yourself
as fulfilling the life goal for your husband and finding
your own purpose. I mean that was so innate in
you from a young age. I mean you were a
teenager when you're a husband, you write about this in

(48:04):
the book. Not your husband, sorry, your your father after
your mother passed away, was pretty much ready to throw
you away and say I'm going to marry you off.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
You're a teenager.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
You're thirteen fourteen at this age, which is not uncommon
right in India even today, And you, as a teenager
said I would rather live on the streets, bouncing from
home to home, friends homes, friends of friends' homes, and
to sign up for security, to sign up for this

(48:34):
arranged marriage. And I mean, oh, I just as a mom,
I'm just like protect the babies. And you were just
a baby. But you did that. That's so I don't
know what to even say about that, just to.

Speaker 13 (48:44):
Be completely fair and honest, Like I didn't know I
was signing up for that. I did when you were
a teenager, and you were like, are defying your parents,
and you're like, all right, if you don't want me
to live your I live with my friends in your innocence,
you really believe that's an option, you know what I mean,
Like because you've done sleepovers that went for a weekend
and no one sent you home, So you've traveled. Maybe

(49:07):
I at that point had traveled with my friend's families
to like nearby vacation spots.

Speaker 7 (49:12):
I was like, yeah, well, you know what, you don't
want me here?

Speaker 13 (49:15):
So nice, they feed me, they let me do all
these things you don't let me do, Like I'll just
go there. When I walked out of my house, I
really didn't think it would become what it became. And
I really thought that my dad was consumed by grief
and that in a matter of a day or two
or three he will come around and then we will.

Speaker 7 (49:34):
Find a new happy medium.

Speaker 13 (49:37):
He was not playing, and I learned that the hard
way that and that is true of many, many, many,
many men of color. I think they like stake their
pride and dignity on everything, especially back home, and and
my dad was not having it. And also like women
were throwing themselves on him left, right and center.

Speaker 7 (49:57):
So he had so much temptation. I know that now
in hindsight.

Speaker 13 (50:02):
Like he had young women like women twenty years younger
than him, being.

Speaker 7 (50:06):
Like, do you need anything? Do you need it? It
was a lot of like what can we do to
help you.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
With the Indian version of making a cast role and
bringing it over.

Speaker 13 (50:16):
Making samosas, making you know, like it was wild. And
that's another thing that I've learned, you know, because I
saw it firsthand in my life. That men will go on.
I've seen it enough to know that their lives will
go on. It's the women. I read a statistic somewhere
a long time ago, and I don't even know where
I read it because and if I'm wrong, somebody can

(50:38):
feel free to correct me. But I read a statistic
somewhere that said that the face of poverty in America
is motherhood. That women who are single moms, who are
moms in general, become a much more prone to living
in poverty than any other demographic. That's his statistics that

(51:00):
scared me. That is another reason why I was like,
I've got to figure something out something anything. I was like,
I will become the world's best dental hygienis. If somebody
good gives me a job, I will take such good
care of them. If they can give me some financial security.
This was during the days when nothing entrepreneurial was working.

(51:20):
I was like, what else can I do? Like can
I become a receptionist somewhere where they will like pay me?
And you know, all these things. So but knowing that
that the outcome for women and I have three kids, like,
you know, they're gonna need stuff. My daughter's graduate in college,
she still needs stuff. It doesn't end, you know.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
And also in New York, the money will dry up.

Speaker 7 (51:43):
Oh my god.

Speaker 13 (51:44):
When my husband lost his job, he had been a
cio for ten years.

Speaker 7 (51:49):
We had savings. People will ask me, did you not
have savings? We had savings. We thought we were set,
and it went like a damn.

Speaker 13 (52:00):
It felt like with the decision, it felt like we
found out on Monday that he doesn't have a job,
and two Mondays from then.

Speaker 7 (52:08):
It was all gone. It felt like that, like my god,
we had it. Oh my god.

Speaker 13 (52:12):
And then when things are not gonna work, nothing works,
Like we couldn't sell the apartment because the market crashed.

Speaker 7 (52:17):
Every turn that we tried to consider was like this
can't work. That can't work, that can't work, this won't work.
So you really have to prepare.

Speaker 13 (52:26):
That's another reason why I work as much as I
do now, I feel like I have to catch up
for all the years that I couldn't do the things
that I didn't work for whatever reason. And I don't
have time to waste, you know. And I advise a
lot of women on thinking big. Once you're playing the game,
you got to think big because women are trained to

(52:48):
think savings.

Speaker 7 (52:49):
We think, oh, if I save money, you know, if
I don't spend it.

Speaker 13 (52:53):
I don't think there's any glory in saving. You cannot
save yourself out of financial mess.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
You have to think, Sarna.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
You have to You're not medical financial genius.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
What are you talking about? Yes?

Speaker 13 (53:05):
Continue, At least I'm closer to math than I was
as a writer.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
I'm sorry. Drop the gem. People need to hear the gem.
Tell them, Tell them again.

Speaker 7 (53:13):
Then what I'm saying.

Speaker 13 (53:15):
We are told, oh, don't buy the coffee, don't get
the manicure, like that is not going to save you
in the end. If you never buy the coffee and
you never have the manicure, you're not going to be
financially secure.

Speaker 7 (53:25):
It's it's nonsense.

Speaker 13 (53:26):
And some guy came up with it just because he's
irritated that women are trying to be happy, you know.
But if you think big from you, that's how you're
going to build equity in a business. That's how you're
going to make enough money that will be like a sizable,
a meaningful amount that you can actually invest and build
other things for yourself.

Speaker 7 (53:45):
And for your family, even for my own kids, like
my own daughter. I teach her every.

Speaker 13 (53:49):
Day I go, you have to like live the life
you want, live the life you want to do that
yoga class every few days. Do the yoga class, but
figure out how you're going to earn the money. Contracting
yourself and trying to live within this tiny bubble that
you think is all you can earn is not the
answer to your growth.

Speaker 7 (54:09):
Not for me anyway.

Speaker 13 (54:10):
I'm all about I spend a lot of money now,
I spend a crazy amount of money, but.

Speaker 7 (54:14):
It's all investment. To me, it's all investment because I
buy back time.

Speaker 13 (54:19):
For example, I don't drive, I haven't driven a car
in years because I sit in the back seat of
a taxi or an uber and I work throughout.

Speaker 7 (54:27):
I don't waste a minute.

Speaker 13 (54:28):
You will never see me wasting time in the back
seat of any car because to me, that's my office.
It's like a mobile office. I like to say work
don't work from home, work from Uber because I go
places I would not you know, I go places, I
meet people. I'm constantly on the road. You know, if
you're in or around the New York area, there's so

(54:48):
many interesting people to meet on the daily. Don't restrict
yourself to the geography of where you are, because the
whole point of living in this neighborhood is in this area,
eat everybody who's here to do all the things that
they are here to do.

Speaker 7 (55:02):
This is the world capital of ambition.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
All right, va fam, We have come to my fifth
and final pick, my top five moments of Summer twenty
twenty five. This one is special. I have to shout
out y'all, Elli Espinal and Chris Browning. Y'all know they
have been holding me down at the Brown Table pretty
much at least once a month I have them on
and it's such a privilege to get to chat with them.

(55:26):
And one of the best things about having Brown Table
co hosts who are not just my co host but
actually friends of mine who have a line of sight
into my personal life is that I feel very comfortable
being vulnerable with them. And I think that always leads
to better conversations. And I try to only have people
on the show who I have a bit of a

(55:48):
rapport with because I want to be I want to
feel safe, and I want to be safe when I
go there with y'all. And one of the things that
we've spoken about more recently is our personal emotional and
mental health journeys. And this summer has been in such
so many ways. There's so many highlights from this summer,

(56:09):
but I also had a really hard time this summer.
I battled the depression beast. At least I felt like
once a month I had a significant bout of depression.
And if you are someone who copes with depression and
or anxiety, I call them my twisted sisters because they
just go hand in hand. Then you know how difficult

(56:31):
it can be to be to feel sort of like
trapped within and trapped within your own mind and at
the time when everyone's outside and everything seems sparkly and
fun and sunny, and who has time to feel that way?
And yet the clouds descend. And I at the time

(56:52):
was opening up to Chris and Janelly about my journey,
you know, dealing with that and I just really appreciate
how they help space for me, and I wanted to
highlight that, and I wanted to give them their flowers
as incredible co hosts, just amazing people in general. And dear,

(57:12):
dear friends, And if you're someone who's dealing with your
own mental health challenges, just know that you have a
huge amount of empathy from me. I am right there
with you. And all the feelings, as all consuming and
suffocating as they can be, they change, right And I

(57:34):
just really appreciate when I am going through those challenging
times that I have ba Faan for one. Then I
have friends like Chris and Yanelli and of course my
own friends and family to hold me and let me be.
Just let me be the way that my mind is
manifesting right now. Accept me. I don't even want to

(57:55):
call it flawed, like I was going to say, accept
me with these flaws, but just accept me the way
I am. This is how my brain works, and I
have these ups and downs, and it's just nice to
see what it can look like to support someone where
they're going through a challenging mental health period like I
had this past summer. So please enjoy I think that

(58:18):
there is some there. There's a lot to argue for
just sticking your head under a pillow and just sleeping
all day and like you know, checking out and falling
into a depression because there's just a lot to be
depressed about. Let's just be honest, I just don't have
that option. Like I can be depressed, but I have
to be functionally depressed, and to a certain extent, forcing

(58:40):
myself out the house even if I am really depressed,
because I do still have periods of depression, but getting
outside and engaging with society is something I have to
do as a mother, and.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
It helps. I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 8 (58:55):
You know what.

Speaker 11 (58:55):
That's a good point because it is those moments where
step outside and you see a peace people you're like, okay,
all right, kind of kind of like ground you a
little bit that you're like, okay, it's uh, it's things
aren't going great, but at least you know it's not
as bad as like your mind could kind of catastrophize it,
like it feels like everything is just burnt to the ground,
and sometimes to kind of snap yourself out of it,
stepping outside does help, even if it feels so cliche

(59:17):
to say, oh, what you go outside. But it kind
of does help a little bit.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
It has to. I mean, like you have to, you
have to. But that's the hardest part. It's like when
you're in that state, when you are just so I mean, doll,
do y'all deal with depression at all or have you
had depression in your lives?

Speaker 14 (59:33):
I'm not gonna lie. I've not had a ton of
issues with depression. And I wonder if that's because of
constantly being surrounded by people like you know how you
talk about Mandy, how you don't really have a choice.
You have to be You have to be functional, whether
you want to or not. Like I'm one of nine siblings,
so it was if it wasn't one of my siblings,
if it wasn't my mom or my dad, it was
always constantly others around me needing me right to be present.

(59:59):
And I feel like that that's like my mind. In
my mind though, vision that I have of myself is
like the energizer bunny, Like I have no choice to
keep going and going and going and going. If it's
not personal family stuff, it's work. If it's not work,
it's my own person. It's my business, or my relationship
or my friends, or my nieces will text me, and
I just constantly feel like I'm in go go go mode.
And then when I do get a chance to pause

(01:00:20):
and reflect and take a break if anything, I just
I'm like, I need to take a nap, Like I
just need to rest. So it's just the cycle of
like like literally the energizer bunny.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Go go go, go go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Oh that's wonderful. Yeah, I mean I maybe there is
something to that. It sounds right, I mean having good,
healthy family dynamics or at least you know so. And
I know there's no all perfect family, but still.

Speaker 14 (01:00:44):
Right absolutely not to say there's no chaos, no drama,
no toxicity, just in terms of me dealing with it internally,
not a lot of depression on my part.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Yeah, bless I would.

Speaker 11 (01:00:57):
Say I've never, like like not clinically you know, diagnosed
with depression, but I know I've definitely dealt with anxiety
for most of my life, and then I've definitely had
a periods of time where I was like, I don't
know if I'm depressed, but it kind of feels like it. Uh,
it can be hard to snap yourself out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
I think it's been a year since I was in
LA and I think at that time, weren't you just
kind of coming out of a like a well, no,
you had like earn your fitness journey and stuff by that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
I don't know, but it felt.

Speaker 11 (01:01:22):
Like it was at the start of it kind of
like breaking out of it. Like I got like really
down and kind of like especially I think it is
that that isolation like you are talking about, like I was,
you know, living by myself at that point, and you
know you kind of like I was started therapy already
and I was kind of I think that sometimes it's
that there's that period of time where you're in therapy
and you kind of like really dig it into some
stuff you don't want to talk about, and then you
really had to face a lot of parts of yourself.

(01:01:43):
And I think that's where I was like really like,
oh god, you know, how's this going. You know, I
don't want to I don't really want to go do things.
I didn't really want to hang out that much. I
was just like, you know, just you just kind of
stay inside way too much. And I was in that
pace kind of breaking out and then I hang out
with you, Matty like that helped, Like we went outside
I had to go on a hike with you and
all fall up the side of the cliff.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Wow, I made you get up so early? Oh my god,
did I save you? Was it me? Was the idea?
I'm not giving you that credit. I would not give it.

Speaker 14 (01:02:11):
Who needs antidepressants and you got Maddy as a friend.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
No, But that was perfect for me too, because I
was just coming out of postpartum, like I had been
a year, and that was my first trip by myself
to have my whole brain to myself.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
I was so excited to just like I was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Giddy to be out there and like be communicating with
people and you know, working on my book and all that.
So oh, I love that for us because it was
I feel like maybe we were on like kind of
the same wavelength of you know, do we want to
go do this hike? No? But then once you're doing it,
at least for me, I was like, let's do more,
let's go further. Then I saw how much you sweat,

(01:02:47):
and I was like, no, abort, this is disgusting. I
don't want to see No mo.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
No, it was she.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Takes us on this hike.

Speaker 11 (01:02:55):
It is out there was any shade you just in
the sun just getting not my fault.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
California got no shade.

Speaker 11 (01:03:01):
It was so hot that day it had to be
pushing ninety issh and I don't even know what it was,
but it was way too oh but it was a
you know, even despite almost having a heat stroke, it
was it was nice to get out.

Speaker 6 (01:03:10):
It was worth it.

Speaker 14 (01:03:11):
Besides that it was worth it was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Why are we talking, Oh, yeah, just depression in general. No,
but I think I think for me, the cycles of depression.
What's great about my journey, you know, to understanding myself
is things do tend to go on a cycle, and
so I can recognize when we're going down, and then
it actually makes it easier to cope with because I

(01:03:35):
know that what goes down must come up. And then
I just kind of almost you lean.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Into the downward slide a bit.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
And by leaning into it and just be honest about it,
then people are you know, once who I've opened up to,
like my husband and my neighbors, my family, they can
one give me space to just like be a grumpy monkey.
Amazing book. If you're a parent, you need to read
a book to your kids about being depressed and just
leaving people to feel their feelings. I can just kind

(01:04:05):
of be a grumpy monkey and then just know that
it will pass and feelings change, and you know all that,
and it's it's helpful in that way. Thanks so much
for listening to my top five Moments of Summer twenty
twenty five viafam. Did you enjoy this walk down memory lane?

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
If so, let me know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Hit me up Brand Ambition Podcast at gmail dot com.
Sound off in the comments. If you are watching this
on YouTube or on the Patreon, let me know. If
you're on Spotify, you can leave a comment there as well.
Feedback is always welcome. I read all the reviews I
can get my hands on. Oh yeah, you can DM me.
I'll take it anywhere, Okay, engage. That's all I'm asking for.

(01:04:48):
If I can create shows that get y'all thinking and
even get you go into the keyboard to type out
a thought or reaction or a comment or feedback, That's
what I'm here to do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Truly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
I can't wait to see y'all will be back with
your regularly scheduled Brown Table programming next week after Labor Day,
and I hope that y'all have what is left of
this little summer. I hope you have a wonderful time
and are finding some time to rest and reset and
pour back into yourselves because sis you deserve it. Sending

(01:05:19):
y'all so much love. Thank you, okayva fam, thank you
so much for listening to this week's show. I want
to shout out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla,
our fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want
to shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair

(01:05:40):
for helping me put the show together. It is not
a one person project, as much as I have tried
to make it so these past ten years. I need help, y'all,
and thank goodness I've been able to put this team
around me to support me on this journey and to
y'all be a fam.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
I love you so so, so so much.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Please rate, review, subscribe, make sure you sign up to
the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes,
our ten year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,
talk to you soon via bye