November 26, 2025 • 39 mins
Happy Thanksgiving week, beloved BA Fam! As a special treat, I wanted to share a crossover episode with Nerdwallet's SmartMoney Podcast, featuring their incredible hosts Sean Piles and Elizabeth Ayoola.
We had SUCH a good conversation about career strategies, salary negotiations, and how to navigate this wild job market we’re in right now.
We talked about everything—from how I 10x’d my salary by quitting my way to the top, to why you need to stop being loyal to companies that won’t pay you what you’re worth. We even got into the power of storytelling in your career, building community, and why you should always be taking those recruiter calls even when you’re not looking.
I hope you enjoy this episode and that wherever you find yourself this holiday week, you're surrounded by loved ones and make time to take care of yourselves as well.
Much love,
Mandi & Team BA
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, ba Faan, Welcome back to Brown Ambition. It's her girl,
Mandy Money, and today I've got something a little different,
a little special for y'all. It's actually an episode of
the Smart Money podcast, which is by my friends over
at Nerdwallet. Y'all know they are one of the biggest
brands in financial education, and I had the pleasure of
hopping on the mic with their host Sean Piles and
(00:21):
Elizabeth Ayula earlier this year. We had such a good conversation.
We got to talk about the origin of Brown Ambition.
We got to talk about how I tenext my salary
by quitting my way rich, the power of storytelling in
your career, just all of my favorite topics. The conversation
is packed with actionable advice that I know will help
(00:42):
you level up your career, which is what I am
all about, especially if y'all have been feeling stuck, underpaid, undervalued,
all the things. Honestly, it was also a good opportunity
to share the origin story of Brown Ambition and I
talk about how centering voices of people of color in
personal finance convers matters so much to me, and I
wanted to share this full interview with y'all, because.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Y'all are ba fam.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You're the reason I do this work, and I think
you're going to get a lot out of this conversation.
So without further ado, let's jump into my interview with
Nerd Wallets Smart Money Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Enjoy Sean, if you could pay yourself any amount of
money based on what you think you're worth, how much
would it be?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
This is probably not the answer you want, but the
limit does not exist. I tend to think that people
are worth more than a dollar amount can capture, so
I would say an infinite amount of money.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Elizabeth, Well, you could save that for yourself, because I
would like to be paid fifty thousand dollars a month,
just kidding the wallet. That's fair, all right? So today
we're discussing compensation negotiations and also career strategies for an
uncertain market.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Welcome to nerd Wallets Smart Money Podcast, where you send
us your money questions and we answer them with the
help of our genius nerds.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm Sean Piles and I'm Elizabeth Ayola. This episode, we're
speaking with a listener about whether they should prioritize contributing
to wroth or traditional retirement accounts. But before then, we're
gonna chat with Mandy Woodruff Santos from the Brown Ambition
podcast about career strategies for an uncertain market and salary negotiations.
(02:25):
Now I have to tea Mandy up and let y'all
know that she's an award winning career coach, personal finance expert, speaker,
and writer.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Mandy, Welcome to Smart Money.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Can I call myself a NERD?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Now? You're an honorary NERD now?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So excited.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
No, you don't understand personal finance reporter since twenty ten.
Like I feel like me and nerd wallet have just
like come up together.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yes, it's about time we have you on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Perfect right, Honestly, I've been waiting. Fifteen years is a
long time.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Make a girl.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Wait, it's fine, So Mandy, we're gonna start with a
little ice here so we can.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Often rise ourselves.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Okay, Sure, if you had to describe the first six
months of the year now we were entering June in
one word, technically five, I guess what would it be.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
For six words of this year? Yes, I can't curse.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
A joy chosen joy, chosen joy, rebellious joy. I started
a community garden with my neighbors earlier than we probably
should have. We live in New York. Stuff freezes, there's frost,
it's cold even in May. And we made this little
hotchpodg garden that has just kept growing and every day
(03:39):
I just get to put my hands in dirt and
no matter what is happening, I have the garden and
it's just so therapeutic. So yeah, rebellious joy is what
that feels like.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Well, you know, I'm a big gardener. I talk about
it a lot on the podcast, and it's so important
to have a space where you can relax, get your
hands a little dirty, and focus on something bigger than yourself,
which is your community, your garden, what you're creating and
growing in your everyday or if.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You're a new Bee gardener like me, it's often smaller
than yourself and will remain smaller and might die.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
But it's all about the process.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's a garden with the lower kagg that is what.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
I like to call it.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Well, Mandy, you are a career and money expert. Talk
with us about how you got to where you are today.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Oh my goodness, Well, brown ambition, my baby. I started
this podcast when I was coming up as a financial journalist.
I was a reporter at Business Insider. I was the
personal finance editor at Business Insider, and then I moved
over to Yahoo Finance, and I just could not create
enough content about personal finances for millennials. And I'm a
black woman in the business journalism space, and I thought
(04:40):
BI was bad in terms of like the number of
BI bros That I had to contend with.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, I meaning Business Insider.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Business Insider. Yes, I didn't realize it at the time.
I thought something was wrong with me. I was like,
I don't speak this language. I don't feel like I
have a voice that anyone cares to hear. You know,
I'm just gonna sit over here and write my stories
and not speak up. And by the time I got
to Yahoo Finance, I was gaining more confidence about my
financial knowledge and all of that. And then what I'm
(05:07):
realizing is it's not that something is wrong with me.
It's just that the default voice and the default tone
and style and personality is just something that as a
black girl from Georgia, like I just was not bringing.
And I came up with the idea to do brown ambition,
and thank goodness, y'ah who said, no, we can't make
any money off that. So I started it on my
own and Brown Ambition became my side hustle. That is
(05:30):
now my main focus. And I'm really privileged and honored
to get to serve this audience of women of color
and really put us centered.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
In every conversation about finances.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
And because I quit six times and ten years and
I tenxed my salary from thirty K to three hundred
k over that time, I had a lot of tips
to share.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'd like to hear a little more about that specific
moment where you said, I'm going off on my own.
I'm starting Brown Ambition. I'm making this my full time job.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's a choice every day Brown Ambition. Because I'm my
own boss. It doesn't have to be my focus. I
could be doing other things. I'm working on my first book.
I just submitted my manuscript a comp gratulations girl, What
a joy for me. It's not so much about I'm
going to make Brown Ambition my focus. It's just I
(06:19):
am so excited to do Brown Ambition. I'll just keep
doing it until the wheels fall off. And the beauty
of this platform is that, yes, AD revenue is great,
and it's nice to be able to pay my bills
with that, but it is another pathway to more opportunities
that can also bring in revenue.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It's very impressive. How you said you were able to
ten x your salary.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah? Ten x not At one job. I had to
work really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I had to quit my way rich, which I came
up with that expression, and it is really hard to
say fourdater quit my way rich. No, But I mean
it wasn't some It wasn't like a big master plan
I had that said, Okay, I'm just going to keep
quitting and moving to new jobs. But I quickly realized
I thought I was playing the game well, and I
still didn't get the raise that I asked for. When
(07:04):
I didn't get the raise, I was like, well, can
I ask them an equity please, sir?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And it was a no.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And I got a really great piece of advice from
a mentor of mine.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
His name is Raymontyer.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
He gave me one of the best pieces of advice ever,
which is that as you are killing it in your
current job, always be looking and keeping an eye out
for other opportunities. Sometimes you need that additional leverage to
get them to give you what you deserve. And so
I talk a lot about how I didn't just negotiate
to get from thirty K up to three hundred K
across six different roles. I also put myself in a
(07:36):
position where I never had to apply for those roles.
People came to me with opportunities. And that's the secret
sauce that I want more and more of us to
understand so we can start getting that bag.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, I'm going to ask you, Mandy, specifically for people
who like nugget sized takeaways, how should people navigate compensation negotiations,
especially in this economic climate.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I think that the economy is always going to be
doing whatever or the economy is doing. I know that
AI is not even an existential. It's like a real
crisis right now, and they're coming for our jobs.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
At the same time, you can only control what you
can control, right. One of the best nuggets I can
give y'all right now is knowledge. You have to know
your market value in order to go out and assert
your value.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So by that, I mean you need to be always
looking for new opportunities, taking those calls if you're lucky
enough to get them from hiring managers and recruiters and
asking them upfront, what is the salary range for this position?
Even if you don't want the role, you should still
be having that conversation. Another way to get knowledge is
to talk to your peers. I made a pact with
(08:38):
one of my college pals. We were always going to
share what we were earning, what negotiations were like, and
help each other. And I made that packed with a
few other colleagues and peers over the same period of time,
and it just takes away all of that bs. We
get scared to talk about compensation with people. You have
to like tiptoe around it. You desperately want to know,
(09:00):
but you don't ask the question. And once that's sort
of taken away and you just have an understanding, like, oh,
at this table, we're going to be transparent. It is
so helpful because that knowledge is what's going to give
you that confidence to go in and ask for what
you're worth. Now, the next part is how do you
get a job that's actually going to pay you what
you're worth? Because knowing it it's not the same as
earning it. I was just coaching someone earlier today. She
(09:22):
is someone who has not been earning her value for
three years. Now she's making fifty K when she should
probably be making one hundred and fifty k because she
had to take a step back, she was let go,
and I had to tell her, like, you're a rare
case where I don't think you're going to find your
next opportunity by applying and going through an interview process.
I said, in your case, going out and creating your
(09:44):
own project, your own entrepreneurial endeavor and creating that using
every skill set that you're going to bring to the
table for the role that you want, and actually demonstrating
that in like a market sample, like a proof of
work is actually going to give you the edge because
it's going to give you an excuse to connect with
people and tell them what you're working on. It's going
to give you a reason to share what you're working on,
(10:04):
and it's just so much more likely that you're going
to be found and that people who have opportunities but
are not publishing them will come to you because they
think of you first.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I think we know that throwing out a bunch of
job applications online is often not very fruitful. You mentioned
how you have been approached by a lot of folks
over your career and have found good jobs in that way.
For people who maybe aren't getting those calls all the time,
how do you think they can begin to drum some
of them up? Is it posting on LinkedIn? Is it Instagram?
What do you recommend?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
LinkedIn is great? But I think everyone's got the LinkedIn tip.
Now what can you do beyond LinkedIn? Don't get me wrong,
it's plenty of y'all who I know know about LinkedIn.
When you're on LinkedIn, what are you sharing? You don't
need to be sharing what you had for lunch that day.
Shout out a teammate, someone on your team who's done
something cool. Shout out a company initiative that you had
a part of. Of course, shout out if you win
(10:52):
an award or if you get a promotion.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
But day to day, what.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Are you excited about? Spotlighting? In terms of your skills,
the next thing is get off the internet. People are outside.
Now we're outside. I don't think everyone's got the memo
since post COVID we are outside.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
We are a meeting in person.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I signed up for my first National Association a Black
Journalist convention in six years. I think putting yourself in
those spaces. We have to get back out there. I
don't care if you're an introvert, but you have to
be putting yourselves into a room where you can bump
into someone, where you can strike up a conversation, leave
an impression. And you just can't get that from the internet, Mandy.
(11:29):
Some people may not actually be looking for a new job.
They may actually like the job they're at, but just
want to be paid. More so, for people who are
comfortable where they're at, but want how you're paid, what
are some ways that they can negotiate their salary? And
then second part is if their employer says, Nope, we're
not giving you that extra ten thousand dollars more, are
there other things that they can negotiate.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Absolutely. I mean we're at the midyear point right, We're
six months into the year. If you have a midyear
check in, this is the time. And what I like
to say about the midyear check in is for a
lot of hiring managers, they're not fully into it. It's
not like the end of your check in. However, I
would be planting the seeds of I want that promotion,
I want that raise right now. I think you need
(12:13):
to adjust your expectations for how quickly that can happen.
I think the mid year check in is a great
time to say to let your hiring your manager know, like,
I want this, I'm going to be annoying about it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I'm going to ask again.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So by the time they're in Q four of this year,
which is when a lot of managers are thinking about
what job recks are going to be asking for, what
budget they're going to be asking for for promotions, for bonuses,
for new talent. That's kind of happening toward the end
of the year. And if they remember you back in
June being that squeaky wheel and asking for more please,
(12:45):
they're just more likely to think of you then. So
I think it's important to make your case. Go in
there and say, hey, my market value, based on my
own research, is actually twenty percent more. What can we
do to get me closer to that market rate? I
love what I'm doing here. I don't want to go anywhere.
Let's make this happen. I want to be sure I'm
getting paid commensate with my market value. That's like the
bare minimum of what you can do. Even better is
(13:07):
to have a competing offer, and that is the ultimate leverage.
Of course, you don't want to go into that conversation
without thinking about the what ifs. What if they say no,
Do I really want to walk away and take this opportunity?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Hopefully?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, because loyalty doesn't pay. Loyalty feels good, but it
doesn't pay.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Something I've been hearing from your advice so far is
that it's really important to know your narrative, understand the
skills that you bring to the table where you want
to go in the story that you're creating, and then
also know how to pitch it, whether you're pitching it
to someone that you meet at a networking event or
your own hiring team. Would you say that's accurate? And
is there anything else that I'm missing there?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Storytelling is essential.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
People want to root for someone whose journey they can understand,
and I think what trips up or not think? Because
I talk to women almost every day about this, We've
got to own our story. And I don't mean own
and embellish. Don't embellish anything. Just give them the raw,
the real, the gritty. You know, tell them where you've been,
why you made the choices you did to a certain
(14:09):
extent and own it. And I don't care if that
means owning a career break for mental health challenges, if
it means owning the fact that you took a step
back because you were caretaking, like own that all of
a sudden.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
The other person on the side of the table is like, WHOA.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I want you to win and it doesn't matter so
much about that gap in your resume.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Mandy, what is one key takeaway for everyone listening who's
like the economy it's killing me. I need more money
and I need to ask for more money, whether it's
do a new job or my current job. What is
the one tip that you have.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
There's no rules.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I don't have to just do one, okay, but the
big one is the economy will be shifting and will
be changing, and at the end of the day, you
have to believe that you have everything that you need
exactly where you are, and that there is no like
there is no version of events where you do. I
don't find an opportunity that works for you. The story
just maybe hasn't played out all the way yet, and
(15:05):
there may be some chapters you didn't expect to read.
There may be some little side quest you have to
go on, but it's all part of the journey, and
along the way, community will be the thing that is
going to separate people who are really struggling from those
who are able to bounce back a lot quicker from
the side quests that have gone awry.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
In some ways, that's worth more than a single raise
that you're getting, So that'll pay dividend throughout your career.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Money's good too, Sean, But yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Sure I am pro money. As hosts of this money.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Podcast, yes everything all at once.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Mandy Woodriff sentos, host of the Brown Ambition Podcast, thank
you so much for coming on and talking with us
about your journey and your compensation negotiations.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
We're about to get to this episode's money question segment,
where we talk with a listener about how to decide
between putting money in traditional and raw retirement accounts.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
But before we get into that, listener, I've got a
question for you. What is your money question? That financial
thing that keeps you up at night, or that goal
you just can't seem to make progress on.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Maybe you have some follow up questions for us about
how you can get the rays you desire or you
want to level up your investing strategy, but aren't sure
just how to go about it. Whatever your money question,
we nerds are here to help. Leave us a voicemail
or text us on the NERD Hotline at nine zero
one seven thirty sixty three seventy three. That's nine zero
one seven three zero and ERD. You can also email
(16:28):
us at podcasts at nerdwallet dot com. All righty, let's
get to this episode's money question segment.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That's up next.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Stay with us.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
We're back and answering your money questions to help you
make smarter financial decisions. This episode, we're joined by Mitch,
a listener from California, with some questions about how to
balance contributions to roth and traditional retirement accounts. Hey Mitch,
Welcome to Smart Money. Hey guys, how you doing great?
Good to have you on. Let's start by hearing a
little bit of about your finances. Can you talk with
(17:02):
us about how you feel things are going, what feels good,
what maybe feels challenging.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Overall, I feel pretty good.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
I've been interested in the personal finance space for a
long time, so I feel like the basic I have
relatively covered. The biggest thing now is I want to
try and make sure that I'm optimizing my contributions to
my retirement funds. And the biggest aspects within that is
I have a four or three B through my company,
and they give me the option within the four H
(17:29):
three B to contribute to a rough or just a
traditional fourrow three B. So that's where I'm getting a
little confused as far as what the advantages are on
each different side and what the disadvantages might be.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Where do you work, Mitch, because I know four three
b's I usually designated for nonprofits, right.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
I work at a medical center called City of Hope
in southern California, So we deal mainly with cancers. I
deal with leukemia, lymphoma, anything like that. So we do
different types of transplants and chemotherapy.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So you're a hero basic no no, no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
No, don't be thrust in that on me.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I want to hear a little more about your household finances,
what's your family situation, Like it's.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
My wife and I and then we have two relatively
newborn twins. They are seven months old, thank you so much.
They are finally calming down a little bit. So that's
where I'm able to jump back in make sure that
we're all set up and everything like that. So my
wife and I both work. We're both full time employees.
She has her four oh one K and then I
have my four or three B. The individual finances and
(18:29):
spending obviously has gone up a tiny bit introducing two
little family members, but I think that's where the aspect
is making sure that we're as set up for the
future as we can be, so that that way our
kids don't have to worry about us and we can
kind of focus on them.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
And has becoming a parent changed the way that you
and your wife talk about money or how you think
about it personally.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
Yeah, I definitely think that it was a little bit
easier prior to kids, because I think that it was like,
I love finances, I'll just handle it like it's fine.
But now if anything were to happen to me, I
need to make sure that like she's as prepared as
she can be in order to be able to kind
of not take over with the finances, but like just
kind of understand how the system that like I have works.
(19:09):
So it's definitely created a lot more intentional conversations around
money and making sure that we kind of understand what's
going on, what the goals are, and then if anything
were to happen to either of us, how we're protected,
and how it kind of goes from there.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I love that you and your wife are now thinking
about ways to protect your family financially now that you
have two little bundles of joy. So what kind of
protections have you been thinking about? We know that you're
trying to contribute to retirement accounts, are there any other
kind of financial investments or safeguards that you're putting in place.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
We both have term life insurance, so we both have
it as like the casual one time salary that's like
free through our workplaces, and then I put supplemental on
both of ours through my company, so that we're covered
up to I think that like I'm up to like
a mill, and then she's like seven hundred and fifty thousand,
so either of us pass like it immediately pays off
(20:01):
our mortgage and then we kind of have that aspect.
So that's one way, and then we've started five twenty nine,
and then we just.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Set up our trust as well, so.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
I think we're relatively covered, but I'm not.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I'm not sure that you need us. Man, it sounds
like you're doing all the things.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
No, no, no, I need somebody to tell me I'm doing it. Okay,
that's like my big thing.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Amazing, thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
So much of money conversations and financial planning are just
getting that gut check and the perspective of someone else.
So we're happy to provide that. But it does seem
like you are doing things pretty well overall. One last
area I want to hear about is emergency savings. Where
are you there?
Speaker 6 (20:41):
I probably need to get it up a tiny bit more.
My workplace is really stable from like the standpoint of
being let go or anything like that. I'm a nurse,
so it's very difficult for that to happen. I'm also unionized,
so it's even extra more difficult for.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
That to happen.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Nice, So we kind of have a I would say
a four to five month emergency just sitting in our
high yield. That way, if my wife wasn't able to
work anymore, if we just kind of need to take
a break and go down to one income for a minute,
we have that option at least in the short term.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
To kind of figure that out.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
A general guideline is that if you are in a
two income household, you can probably get away with a
three month emergency fund. The fact that you think that
your wife might stop working for a period of time
makes me think that you might be okay where you are.
But if you are a one income household, you might
want to get that up too, closer to six months,
just so you have a better cushion. So think about
that as you and your wife are talking about whether
(21:32):
she might want to pull back from work, and then
you might want to save a little bit more if
you can perfect.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
She's in a tech field, so who knows kind of
where that's heading.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Well, let's get into some of your specific questions around
balancing raw versus traditional with your four h three b
How have you been saving for retirement thus far? What's
been your approach?
Speaker 6 (21:49):
I have the automatic contribution set up through my workplace,
so I've been kind of hovering between. While we were
pregnant with the babies, I was down like eight percent
just so that we had a little bit more cash
on hand, and I'm slowly working back up to trying
to get both of us back up to the fifteen percent.
It's not maxing, which is my next goal. I think
is to max those accounts. But yeah, and then I
(22:11):
split pretty evenly between the WROTH side and in the
traditional side. So that's kind of been my approach so far.
I didn't get enough information about it, and it just
kind of seemed something I wanted to dig into a
little bit more.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Do you get a match from your employer kind of.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
So they do it a little weird. I have a
four to h one a as well, where they contribute
to it regardless of what I put in. So right
now it's two percent. When I hit I think six
years of service, it will move up to six percent.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
As you're calculating the percentage of your income that you're
contributing towards retirement accounts, include that two percent match that
you're getting as you work toward fifteen percent or maxing
about whatever you would like.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
To have as your goal. Okay, perfect, that's good to know.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
So now let's dig into how you can split your
money from ROTH versus traditional. I guess one question behind
this is what are your goals behind splitting it between
these two different accounts, just because do you think it
might be a good idea or do you have any
motivating factor specifically?
Speaker 5 (23:06):
I think it might be a good idea.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
And then also I know that like roths are kind
of like a powerful tool, and so that's where I
just don't understand if they are different between the roth
Ira and the wroth four O three B. I know
that kind of when it comes to retirement, what I've
been told at least is to have different buckets that
I can pull from between taxes, with the traditional being
take the taxes, then roth being take the taxes now,
(23:31):
and so trying to separate it to where I have
a relatively even amount between all of those different buckets
that I can pull from in retirement.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
So the main difference between a roth ira and a
four to OZH three B is in the contribution amount,
So with a four three B or four one K
you can contribute a lot more than you can usually
to a regular wroth ira account. And also in the
investment option, So with the former you tend to have
more investment options, whereas with the ladder you might have fewer.
Speaker 6 (23:56):
Gotcha, That's what it seems like it comes down to,
is like the investment options. That's like the main aspect
of my question is my Wroth four O three B
I can contribute I think it's like twenty something thousand
compared to a roth ira, which is around seven thousand.
I think I have pretty good selections when it comes
to my workplace. I have the target date retirement funds,
(24:17):
so I feel like it's like a decent idea. And
then I just don't know if I before I max,
should I even contribute to a roth ira? Is there
any aspect of that? Am I missing out on something
if I don't finish? And then when can I withdraw
from a roth ira compared to my retirement accounts within
my employer? So like my four oh three B for.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Example, So in general, you can pull from your retirement
accounts a roth ira tax and penalty free when you're
fifty nine and a half. There are rules around four
oh three BS and four oh one k is where
if you retire from that employer, you can withdraw from
their account at fifty five. So it's a little bit
more flexible in that regard. But I want to talk
(24:59):
about contribut to a roth ira specifically for you, because
a lot of people who are high earners can face
some limits on what you can contribute if you can
at all. So you're a nurse, you said that your
wife works in tech. I'm gathering that you guys are
probably high earners. What's your household income?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
We're at about two hundred and thirty thousand between the
two of.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Us, So for those who are married filing jointly, the
phase out range for contributing to a roth IRA in
twenty twenty five is between two hundred and thirty six
thousand and two hundred and forty six thousand, So you're
a little close to that, but you're not at it yet.
Do you anticipate that you might have any other income
coming your way this year?
Speaker 6 (25:42):
I think that this year I just got my raise,
and so it might push me a breath that thank you.
I am an hourly employee and so is my wife.
Like she works very exact hours compared to mine, which
I work variable depending if I need to stay over
or not, so it can fluctuate more higher than lower.
Feel like I'm going to be flirting with that line
(26:02):
like you're talking about. That's where it gets a little complicated.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I think too.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Unless you are really unhappy with the investment options in
the wroth for or three B, that might be the
safer bet for you because you're still getting the after
tax contributions and then you have a diversified fund to
pull from in terms of retirement accounts in retirement, though,
I caution people when they are close to that edge
(26:27):
just to maybe not play with fire, because you don't
want to have to do something later on come tax
season where you have to pull back the amount that
you took out in the roth IRA or converted. It
just gets to be a little bit messy. But I
would like to talk through a little more about how
much to put into a WROTH account versus a traditional account,
And there are some questions that can help you decide
(26:48):
what might be best for you. So one main one
is do you expect to earn more and be in
a higher tax bracket later in your career or in retirement.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Be my individual career or my wife and I combined
combined and individual.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
But for now, since you're filing jointly considered.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
I'd probably say post like forty forty five, I feel
like she'll probably stop working, Like our goal is to
send her into early retirement kind of as soon as
we can, so I feel like we'll drop off then,
but for the time being, we're only going up. Like
I said, I'm unionized, so I have set increases every year,
(27:29):
so I can kind of map that out generally for
the next career path.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
So it sounds like you might be in what people
call your peak earning years.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
I probably define it like that, okay.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
So in general, if you think that you might be
earning more later or you'll have a higher tax bracket
in retirement, contributing to a wroth now or prioritizing that
can be a good idea because you pay income tax
on the amount that you put into a roth IRA
at the front, so you would be paying a lower
tax rate on the contributions now versus what you would pay.
So then a traditional is often better when you are
(28:03):
in your peak earning years because if you are earning
the most that you may ever earn, you're also likely
being taxed at the highest rate you may ever be
taxed at. So in that case, saving for retirement in
pre tax accounts like a traditional four H three B
or traditional IRA or four oh one K can be
a better option because that helps you lower your taxable income.
(28:25):
You really just are getting a better tax break from
those pre tax contributions, and that is a big thing
to consider.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
That definitely makes sense. Would it be worth it still
to break it up a tiny bit? It seems like
the traditional might be the best option for me as
what we are describing as like my highest earning years
now from a financial combined income perspective, would it be
worth it still to maybe change the split like seventy
five twenty five.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That's about how I do it myself, because I am
what people may consider is in my peak earning years too.
But I want to have tax diversification, and that is
what contributing to a wroth and traditional gives.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
You as well.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
So how exactly you split that is up to you,
and there isn't a precise, one size fits all formula.
I do about seventy five percent traditional twenty five percent wroth,
and that just helps me hedge against future tax increases
because historically tax rates are pretty low right now, and
(29:29):
we have quite the blooming national deficit.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
We may need to raise taxes later on to cover this.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So contributing to a roth while you're also doing traditional
can help you sort of hedge your retirement vets in
a way.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Gotcha, I also split mine, so I have some going
to a wroth and some going to a traditional and
I think as much as the numbers matter, it also
maybe matters when you want to pay your taxes. And
I know that when I am sipping Margarita's. When I'm retired,
I don't want to have to worry about paying Uncle
Sam any taxes. So I like roths for that reason.
But it's a personal preference.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
And Ozabeth, I have a kind of a question for you.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
I think that you're more I don't know if you
would define yourself into the fire movement, but I know that, wow,
And so that's definitely something I've calculated in theory my
fire number. How can I best set myself up knowing
that it might be before fifty nine and a half, Like,
is that where a different type of account would come
(30:27):
in to where I'm not taking penalties and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
So obviously I can't tell you what to do, but
I can just share my own personal experience. And while
I don't think I'm necessarily on track to retire early yet,
it's an ambitious goal that I do have. And some
things that I'm doing that anyone can do to diversify is.
First of all, I have a brokerage account I save
in as well I also try to live a little frugally.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I say a.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Little because I like to shop on Zoro, but I
do try to keep my expenses way lower than my
income and just cut out unnecessary expenses. So essentially, those
are the main things that I do diversify my investments,
and also the pots that I'm putting my investments in
and saving aggressively. I think those are like the fundamentals
of fire.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Really perfect, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
Are you contributing to a brokerage account right now? Miss?
Speaker 6 (31:18):
I was, and it was mainly for a new down
payment for a house. Is kind of the idea. I
stopped because it's hard to know where we're at with
our next house and a down payment, so I pulled
out of it and just put it into the High
Yeld savings account for now. Didn't take out the contributions,
but I did just change where I'm contributing, So I'm
just saving in cash right now to the High Yield.
That's the only brokerage account that I have set up
for now, but it might be worth looking into for
(31:41):
the future.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Yeah, Well, if you are interested in the fire movement,
that is a way to save and invest without having
to deal with a lot of the red tape that
comes with these tax advantage to count like roth iras
and four H three p's. They just have a lot
of very particular rules that you don't want to get
on the wrong side of. So capital gains on what
you have in a brokerage account. Is a lot of
(32:04):
folks who are going to fire out's primary way beyond
you know, the other standard retirement accounts.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
It's perfect and some people like I hope to do
because I don't want to be doing absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Will still work part time, right, I.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
Don't mind working it. I like the option of not
having to do it if I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Now we're best these. Now we're best these because you
get it the.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
Brest to fire. Look at you.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
The show exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
Gad to do my research. Come on, I love it, Mitch.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
I'd like to hear a little more about how your
wife is saving, how she's thinking about this. Is she
similar to you or does she have a different approach.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
She's similar to me because I set it up for her.
It's basically identical.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
But now we'll be able to have a discussion as
far as what she wants to do and have a
little bit of a better idea as far as what
might be best going forward. She doesn't have a contribution
match anymore. They took that away, and so I don't
know really what to do with that. If I should
continue to invest within the four oh one K like
I want to invest, it's just where and if it
should be with the company or not with.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Your wife's four one ye yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, you're
getting a great tax advantage by reducing your taxable income
by putting money into it, So even if you aren't
getting a match, it's still really helpful to be using
this account that you have access to. Many people who
don't have that opportunity are really struggling to save enough
for retirement because, as you mentioned before, the contribution amount
(33:26):
is I believe in twenty twenty five, it's twenty three
five hundred dollars that you can put in on your own.
That is much higher than the seven thousand that you
can put into a roth ira, and those are both
the limits for those who are under fifty. So think
about how you can maximize the amount that you're putting
in given what's.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Available to you. Makes sense.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
One last thing I wanted to throw in as it
relates to your wife's retirement contributions amount as she thinks
about different accounts that are available to her since she
doesn't have an employee match, some financial advisors will suggest
that folks contribute to their employee retirement account enough to
get that match, which obviously it is not an option
for your wife. Then go to contributing to an IRA
and up to max it out, and then go to
(34:07):
an HSA if they have access to that, and then
return to their employer's plan and then work on maxing
that out.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Do you guys have hsas that you're contributing to.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
We just did her elections and so it starts in
June and my son has a procedure on June third,
So I wanted to play it safe and we didn't
know how much with a high deductible plan that would cost.
So next year our plan it does have the option
to drop down to where we do have the eligibility
for an HSA, but we won't do that until next
year unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Well, there are trade offs that come with having a
high deductible health care plan and an HSA, So consider
all of the health expenses that you and your family
might have and see what might be most advantageous to you. Well, Mitch,
we've run through a lot around retirement savings and different
options that you have. How are you feeling now and
what do you think you might do next?
Speaker 5 (34:54):
I feel good.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
I think it's always nice to get a little bit
of reassurance is definitely my big thing. And then just
with the aspect of potentially changing my split from fifty
to fifty between traditional and roth and potentially moving in
a little bit more towards traditional and understanding why that
would benefit me compared to just like shooting in the
dark and just kind of not fully understanding.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Well, thanks for coming on and chatting with us, sharing
your story a bit. We're really excited for you and
your young family. Keep us updated on how things go
for you.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
This time, and that's all we have for this episode.
Remember listener that we're here to answer your money questions,
So turn to the nerds and callers. Text us your
questions at nine zero one seven three zero six three
seven three. That's nine zero one seven three zero n EERD.
You can also send us an email at podcasts at
(35:44):
nerdwallet dot com.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Join us next time to hear about how you can
get your credit back on track after some missteps. Follow
Smart Money on your favorite podcast app including Spotify, Apple Podcast,
and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes. And if you're
listening on Spotify, drop it's a comment right on the platform.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
And here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial
or investment advisors. This nutty information is provided for general,
educational and entertainment purposes and it may not apply to
your specific circumstances.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
This episode was produced by Testigland. Hillary Georgie helped was editing,
Nick Karrisimi Mixer Audio. And a big thank you to
Nerd Walt's editors for all their help.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Hey ba, fam, let's be real for a second, and
y'all know I keep it a book. The job market
in twenty twenty five has been brutal, no, not brutal, trash,
especially for women of color. Over three hundred thousand of
us have disappeared from the workforce this year alone, and
not by choice, but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs,
(36:59):
and stagnant wages that keep cutting us out of opportunity.
I was just talking to a woman and she's like,
what am I going to do? They're making me come
back to office full time come January, five days a week.
My whole life has been built around working remotely for
the past four or five years. How am I supposed
to act like? This is basically them telling me it's
time to go. Our unemployment rate has jumped to over
(37:22):
seven percent, while our pay gap continues to widen. I
know all of that sounds dire, but here's what I
want y'all to know. You do not have to wait
for the system to save you. We can build power
right now and in fact you, I know you, and
I believe in myself too. If we are capable of
learning the skills we need to pivot and to lead
(37:43):
our careers with intention. Despite all of these headwinds and
challenges against us, we are bound to succeed these outside forces,
these things that are outside of our control. It's not
so much about changing them, it's about changing the way
that we react to them, the way that we respond
to them. That's exactly why I created the Mandy money
Makers Group coaching community. It is a coaching community that
(38:07):
is built for us by us inside the community. We're
not just talking about how to negotiate or to how
to get the job that you want. It's about finding
purpose in your career. It's about finding communities and others,
feeling seen, feeling heard, and also having a sounding board
in a mirror to reflect your own magic, your own
(38:28):
sparkle right back to yourself. In this community, you'll get
group coaching led by me, but you also get peer
to peer accountability with proven tools and resources that can
help you do what we have always done, this rise
Even when the odds are stacked against us, despite all
the challenges, we will rise. If you're interested in joining
(38:50):
the Mandy money Makers community and having that support to
bolster you and help you tap back into your magic
so that you can lead your career with intention and
heart and your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us.
You can find information in the show notes of today's
episodes or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's
(39:12):
Mandy m A n d I money dot com slash community.
I would love to see y'all there. Enrollment is open,
so please go check out mandymoney dot com slash community
today
Hey, ba Faan, Welcome back to Brown Ambition. It's her girl,
Mandy Money, and today I've got something a little different,
a little special for y'all. It's actually an episode of
the Smart Money podcast, which is by my friends over
at Nerdwallet. Y'all know they are one of the biggest
brands in financial education, and I had the pleasure of
hopping on the mic with their host Sean Piles and
(00:21):
Elizabeth Ayula earlier this year. We had such a good conversation.
We got to talk about the origin of Brown Ambition.
We got to talk about how I tenext my salary
by quitting my way rich, the power of storytelling in
your career, just all of my favorite topics. The conversation
is packed with actionable advice that I know will help
(00:42):
you level up your career, which is what I am
all about, especially if y'all have been feeling stuck, underpaid, undervalued,
all the things. Honestly, it was also a good opportunity
to share the origin story of Brown Ambition and I
talk about how centering voices of people of color in
personal finance convers matters so much to me, and I
wanted to share this full interview with y'all, because.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Y'all are ba fam.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
You're the reason I do this work, and I think
you're going to get a lot out of this conversation.
So without further ado, let's jump into my interview with
Nerd Wallets Smart Money Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Enjoy Sean, if you could pay yourself any amount of
money based on what you think you're worth, how much
would it be?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
This is probably not the answer you want, but the
limit does not exist. I tend to think that people
are worth more than a dollar amount can capture, so
I would say an infinite amount of money.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Elizabeth, Well, you could save that for yourself, because I
would like to be paid fifty thousand dollars a month,
just kidding the wallet. That's fair, all right? So today
we're discussing compensation negotiations and also career strategies for an
uncertain market.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Welcome to nerd Wallets Smart Money Podcast, where you send
us your money questions and we answer them with the
help of our genius nerds.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm Sean Piles and I'm Elizabeth Ayola. This episode, we're
speaking with a listener about whether they should prioritize contributing
to wroth or traditional retirement accounts. But before then, we're
gonna chat with Mandy Woodruff Santos from the Brown Ambition
podcast about career strategies for an uncertain market and salary negotiations.
(02:25):
Now I have to tea Mandy up and let y'all
know that she's an award winning career coach, personal finance expert, speaker,
and writer.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Mandy, Welcome to Smart Money.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Can I call myself a NERD?
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Now? You're an honorary NERD now?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So excited.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
No, you don't understand personal finance reporter since twenty ten.
Like I feel like me and nerd wallet have just
like come up together.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yes, it's about time we have you on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Perfect right, Honestly, I've been waiting. Fifteen years is a
long time.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Make a girl.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Wait, it's fine, So Mandy, we're gonna start with a
little ice here so we can.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Often rise ourselves.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Okay, Sure, if you had to describe the first six
months of the year now we were entering June in
one word, technically five, I guess what would it be.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
For six words of this year? Yes, I can't curse.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
A joy chosen joy, chosen joy, rebellious joy. I started
a community garden with my neighbors earlier than we probably
should have. We live in New York. Stuff freezes, there's frost,
it's cold even in May. And we made this little
hotchpodg garden that has just kept growing and every day
(03:39):
I just get to put my hands in dirt and
no matter what is happening, I have the garden and
it's just so therapeutic. So yeah, rebellious joy is what
that feels like.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Well, you know, I'm a big gardener. I talk about
it a lot on the podcast, and it's so important
to have a space where you can relax, get your
hands a little dirty, and focus on something bigger than yourself,
which is your community, your garden, what you're creating and
growing in your everyday or if.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You're a new Bee gardener like me, it's often smaller
than yourself and will remain smaller and might die.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
But it's all about the process.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's a garden with the lower kagg that is what.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
I like to call it.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Well, Mandy, you are a career and money expert. Talk
with us about how you got to where you are today.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Oh my goodness, Well, brown ambition, my baby. I started
this podcast when I was coming up as a financial journalist.
I was a reporter at Business Insider. I was the
personal finance editor at Business Insider, and then I moved
over to Yahoo Finance, and I just could not create
enough content about personal finances for millennials. And I'm a
black woman in the business journalism space, and I thought
(04:40):
BI was bad in terms of like the number of
BI bros That I had to contend with.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, I meaning Business Insider.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Business Insider. Yes, I didn't realize it at the time.
I thought something was wrong with me. I was like,
I don't speak this language. I don't feel like I
have a voice that anyone cares to hear. You know,
I'm just gonna sit over here and write my stories
and not speak up. And by the time I got
to Yahoo Finance, I was gaining more confidence about my
financial knowledge and all of that. And then what I'm
(05:07):
realizing is it's not that something is wrong with me.
It's just that the default voice and the default tone
and style and personality is just something that as a
black girl from Georgia, like I just was not bringing.
And I came up with the idea to do brown ambition,
and thank goodness, y'ah who said, no, we can't make
any money off that. So I started it on my
own and Brown Ambition became my side hustle. That is
(05:30):
now my main focus. And I'm really privileged and honored
to get to serve this audience of women of color
and really put us centered.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
In every conversation about finances.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
And because I quit six times and ten years and
I tenxed my salary from thirty K to three hundred
k over that time, I had a lot of tips
to share.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
I'd like to hear a little more about that specific
moment where you said, I'm going off on my own.
I'm starting Brown Ambition. I'm making this my full time job.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's a choice every day Brown Ambition. Because I'm my
own boss. It doesn't have to be my focus. I
could be doing other things. I'm working on my first book.
I just submitted my manuscript a comp gratulations girl, What
a joy for me. It's not so much about I'm
going to make Brown Ambition my focus. It's just I
(06:19):
am so excited to do Brown Ambition. I'll just keep
doing it until the wheels fall off. And the beauty
of this platform is that, yes, AD revenue is great,
and it's nice to be able to pay my bills
with that, but it is another pathway to more opportunities
that can also bring in revenue.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It's very impressive. How you said you were able to
ten x your salary.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah? Ten x not At one job. I had to
work really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I had to quit my way rich, which I came
up with that expression, and it is really hard to
say fourdater quit my way rich. No, But I mean
it wasn't some It wasn't like a big master plan
I had that said, Okay, I'm just going to keep
quitting and moving to new jobs. But I quickly realized
I thought I was playing the game well, and I
still didn't get the raise that I asked for. When
(07:04):
I didn't get the raise, I was like, well, can
I ask them an equity please, sir?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And it was a no.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And I got a really great piece of advice from
a mentor of mine.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
His name is Raymontyer.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
He gave me one of the best pieces of advice ever,
which is that as you are killing it in your
current job, always be looking and keeping an eye out
for other opportunities. Sometimes you need that additional leverage to
get them to give you what you deserve. And so
I talk a lot about how I didn't just negotiate
to get from thirty K up to three hundred K
across six different roles. I also put myself in a
(07:36):
position where I never had to apply for those roles.
People came to me with opportunities. And that's the secret
sauce that I want more and more of us to
understand so we can start getting that bag.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, I'm going to ask you, Mandy, specifically for people
who like nugget sized takeaways, how should people navigate compensation negotiations,
especially in this economic climate.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I think that the economy is always going to be
doing whatever or the economy is doing. I know that
AI is not even an existential. It's like a real
crisis right now, and they're coming for our jobs.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
At the same time, you can only control what you
can control, right. One of the best nuggets I can
give y'all right now is knowledge. You have to know
your market value in order to go out and assert
your value.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So by that, I mean you need to be always
looking for new opportunities, taking those calls if you're lucky
enough to get them from hiring managers and recruiters and
asking them upfront, what is the salary range for this position?
Even if you don't want the role, you should still
be having that conversation. Another way to get knowledge is
to talk to your peers. I made a pact with
(08:38):
one of my college pals. We were always going to
share what we were earning, what negotiations were like, and
help each other. And I made that packed with a
few other colleagues and peers over the same period of time,
and it just takes away all of that bs. We
get scared to talk about compensation with people. You have
to like tiptoe around it. You desperately want to know,
(09:00):
but you don't ask the question. And once that's sort
of taken away and you just have an understanding, like, oh,
at this table, we're going to be transparent. It is
so helpful because that knowledge is what's going to give
you that confidence to go in and ask for what
you're worth. Now, the next part is how do you
get a job that's actually going to pay you what
you're worth? Because knowing it it's not the same as
earning it. I was just coaching someone earlier today. She
(09:22):
is someone who has not been earning her value for
three years. Now she's making fifty K when she should
probably be making one hundred and fifty k because she
had to take a step back, she was let go,
and I had to tell her, like, you're a rare
case where I don't think you're going to find your
next opportunity by applying and going through an interview process.
I said, in your case, going out and creating your
(09:44):
own project, your own entrepreneurial endeavor and creating that using
every skill set that you're going to bring to the
table for the role that you want, and actually demonstrating
that in like a market sample, like a proof of
work is actually going to give you the edge because
it's going to give you an excuse to connect with
people and tell them what you're working on. It's going
to give you a reason to share what you're working on,
(10:04):
and it's just so much more likely that you're going
to be found and that people who have opportunities but
are not publishing them will come to you because they
think of you first.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
I think we know that throwing out a bunch of
job applications online is often not very fruitful. You mentioned
how you have been approached by a lot of folks
over your career and have found good jobs in that way.
For people who maybe aren't getting those calls all the time,
how do you think they can begin to drum some
of them up? Is it posting on LinkedIn? Is it Instagram?
What do you recommend?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
LinkedIn is great? But I think everyone's got the LinkedIn tip.
Now what can you do beyond LinkedIn? Don't get me wrong,
it's plenty of y'all who I know know about LinkedIn.
When you're on LinkedIn, what are you sharing? You don't
need to be sharing what you had for lunch that day.
Shout out a teammate, someone on your team who's done
something cool. Shout out a company initiative that you had
a part of. Of course, shout out if you win
(10:52):
an award or if you get a promotion.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
But day to day, what.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Are you excited about? Spotlighting? In terms of your skills,
the next thing is get off the internet. People are outside.
Now we're outside. I don't think everyone's got the memo
since post COVID we are outside.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
We are a meeting in person.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I signed up for my first National Association a Black
Journalist convention in six years. I think putting yourself in
those spaces. We have to get back out there. I
don't care if you're an introvert, but you have to
be putting yourselves into a room where you can bump
into someone, where you can strike up a conversation, leave
an impression. And you just can't get that from the internet, Mandy.
(11:29):
Some people may not actually be looking for a new job.
They may actually like the job they're at, but just
want to be paid. More so, for people who are
comfortable where they're at, but want how you're paid, what
are some ways that they can negotiate their salary? And
then second part is if their employer says, Nope, we're
not giving you that extra ten thousand dollars more, are
there other things that they can negotiate.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Absolutely. I mean we're at the midyear point right, We're
six months into the year. If you have a midyear
check in, this is the time. And what I like
to say about the midyear check in is for a
lot of hiring managers, they're not fully into it. It's
not like the end of your check in. However, I
would be planting the seeds of I want that promotion,
I want that raise right now. I think you need
(12:13):
to adjust your expectations for how quickly that can happen.
I think the mid year check in is a great
time to say to let your hiring your manager know, like,
I want this, I'm going to be annoying about it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I'm going to ask again.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So by the time they're in Q four of this year,
which is when a lot of managers are thinking about
what job recks are going to be asking for, what
budget they're going to be asking for for promotions, for bonuses,
for new talent. That's kind of happening toward the end
of the year. And if they remember you back in
June being that squeaky wheel and asking for more please,
(12:45):
they're just more likely to think of you then. So
I think it's important to make your case. Go in
there and say, hey, my market value, based on my
own research, is actually twenty percent more. What can we
do to get me closer to that market rate? I
love what I'm doing here. I don't want to go anywhere.
Let's make this happen. I want to be sure I'm
getting paid commensate with my market value. That's like the
bare minimum of what you can do. Even better is
(13:07):
to have a competing offer, and that is the ultimate leverage.
Of course, you don't want to go into that conversation
without thinking about the what ifs. What if they say no,
Do I really want to walk away and take this opportunity?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Hopefully?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, because loyalty doesn't pay. Loyalty feels good, but it
doesn't pay.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Something I've been hearing from your advice so far is
that it's really important to know your narrative, understand the
skills that you bring to the table where you want
to go in the story that you're creating, and then
also know how to pitch it, whether you're pitching it
to someone that you meet at a networking event or
your own hiring team. Would you say that's accurate? And
is there anything else that I'm missing there?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Storytelling is essential.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
People want to root for someone whose journey they can understand,
and I think what trips up or not think? Because
I talk to women almost every day about this, We've
got to own our story. And I don't mean own
and embellish. Don't embellish anything. Just give them the raw,
the real, the gritty. You know, tell them where you've been,
why you made the choices you did to a certain
(14:09):
extent and own it. And I don't care if that
means owning a career break for mental health challenges, if
it means owning the fact that you took a step
back because you were caretaking, like own that all of
a sudden.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
The other person on the side of the table is like, WHOA.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I want you to win and it doesn't matter so
much about that gap in your resume.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Mandy, what is one key takeaway for everyone listening who's
like the economy it's killing me. I need more money
and I need to ask for more money, whether it's
do a new job or my current job. What is
the one tip that you have.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
There's no rules.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I don't have to just do one, okay, but the
big one is the economy will be shifting and will
be changing, and at the end of the day, you
have to believe that you have everything that you need
exactly where you are, and that there is no like
there is no version of events where you do. I
don't find an opportunity that works for you. The story
just maybe hasn't played out all the way yet, and
(15:05):
there may be some chapters you didn't expect to read.
There may be some little side quest you have to
go on, but it's all part of the journey, and
along the way, community will be the thing that is
going to separate people who are really struggling from those
who are able to bounce back a lot quicker from
the side quests that have gone awry.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
In some ways, that's worth more than a single raise
that you're getting, So that'll pay dividend throughout your career.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Money's good too, Sean, But yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Sure I am pro money. As hosts of this money.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Podcast, yes everything all at once.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Mandy Woodriff sentos, host of the Brown Ambition Podcast, thank
you so much for coming on and talking with us
about your journey and your compensation negotiations.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
We're about to get to this episode's money question segment,
where we talk with a listener about how to decide
between putting money in traditional and raw retirement accounts.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
But before we get into that, listener, I've got a
question for you. What is your money question? That financial
thing that keeps you up at night, or that goal
you just can't seem to make progress on.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Maybe you have some follow up questions for us about
how you can get the rays you desire or you
want to level up your investing strategy, but aren't sure
just how to go about it. Whatever your money question,
we nerds are here to help. Leave us a voicemail
or text us on the NERD Hotline at nine zero
one seven thirty sixty three seventy three. That's nine zero
one seven three zero and ERD. You can also email
(16:28):
us at podcasts at nerdwallet dot com. All righty, let's
get to this episode's money question segment.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
That's up next.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Stay with us.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
We're back and answering your money questions to help you
make smarter financial decisions. This episode, we're joined by Mitch,
a listener from California, with some questions about how to
balance contributions to roth and traditional retirement accounts. Hey Mitch,
Welcome to Smart Money. Hey guys, how you doing great?
Good to have you on. Let's start by hearing a
little bit of about your finances. Can you talk with
(17:02):
us about how you feel things are going, what feels good,
what maybe feels challenging.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Overall, I feel pretty good.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
I've been interested in the personal finance space for a
long time, so I feel like the basic I have
relatively covered. The biggest thing now is I want to
try and make sure that I'm optimizing my contributions to
my retirement funds. And the biggest aspects within that is
I have a four or three B through my company,
and they give me the option within the four H
(17:29):
three B to contribute to a rough or just a
traditional fourrow three B. So that's where I'm getting a
little confused as far as what the advantages are on
each different side and what the disadvantages might be.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Where do you work, Mitch, because I know four three
b's I usually designated for nonprofits, right.
Speaker 6 (17:45):
I work at a medical center called City of Hope
in southern California, So we deal mainly with cancers. I
deal with leukemia, lymphoma, anything like that. So we do
different types of transplants and chemotherapy.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So you're a hero basic no no, no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
No, don't be thrust in that on me.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I want to hear a little more about your household finances,
what's your family situation, Like it's.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
My wife and I and then we have two relatively
newborn twins. They are seven months old, thank you so much.
They are finally calming down a little bit. So that's
where I'm able to jump back in make sure that
we're all set up and everything like that. So my
wife and I both work. We're both full time employees.
She has her four oh one K and then I
have my four or three B. The individual finances and
(18:29):
spending obviously has gone up a tiny bit introducing two
little family members, but I think that's where the aspect
is making sure that we're as set up for the
future as we can be, so that that way our
kids don't have to worry about us and we can
kind of focus on them.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
And has becoming a parent changed the way that you
and your wife talk about money or how you think
about it personally.
Speaker 6 (18:48):
Yeah, I definitely think that it was a little bit
easier prior to kids, because I think that it was like,
I love finances, I'll just handle it like it's fine.
But now if anything were to happen to me, I
need to make sure that like she's as prepared as
she can be in order to be able to kind
of not take over with the finances, but like just
kind of understand how the system that like I have works.
(19:09):
So it's definitely created a lot more intentional conversations around
money and making sure that we kind of understand what's
going on, what the goals are, and then if anything
were to happen to either of us, how we're protected,
and how it kind of goes from there.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I love that you and your wife are now thinking
about ways to protect your family financially now that you
have two little bundles of joy. So what kind of
protections have you been thinking about? We know that you're
trying to contribute to retirement accounts, are there any other
kind of financial investments or safeguards that you're putting in place.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
We both have term life insurance, so we both have
it as like the casual one time salary that's like
free through our workplaces, and then I put supplemental on
both of ours through my company, so that we're covered
up to I think that like I'm up to like
a mill, and then she's like seven hundred and fifty thousand,
so either of us pass like it immediately pays off
(20:01):
our mortgage and then we kind of have that aspect.
So that's one way, and then we've started five twenty nine,
and then we just.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Set up our trust as well, so.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
I think we're relatively covered, but I'm not.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I'm not sure that you need us. Man, it sounds
like you're doing all the things.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
No, no, no, I need somebody to tell me I'm doing it. Okay,
that's like my big thing.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Amazing, thank you.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
So much of money conversations and financial planning are just
getting that gut check and the perspective of someone else.
So we're happy to provide that. But it does seem
like you are doing things pretty well overall. One last
area I want to hear about is emergency savings. Where
are you there?
Speaker 6 (20:41):
I probably need to get it up a tiny bit more.
My workplace is really stable from like the standpoint of
being let go or anything like that. I'm a nurse,
so it's very difficult for that to happen. I'm also unionized,
so it's even extra more difficult for.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
That to happen.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Nice, So we kind of have a I would say
a four to five month emergency just sitting in our
high yield. That way, if my wife wasn't able to
work anymore, if we just kind of need to take
a break and go down to one income for a minute,
we have that option at least in the short term.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
To kind of figure that out.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
A general guideline is that if you are in a
two income household, you can probably get away with a
three month emergency fund. The fact that you think that
your wife might stop working for a period of time
makes me think that you might be okay where you are.
But if you are a one income household, you might
want to get that up too, closer to six months,
just so you have a better cushion. So think about
that as you and your wife are talking about whether
(21:32):
she might want to pull back from work, and then
you might want to save a little bit more if
you can perfect.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
She's in a tech field, so who knows kind of
where that's heading.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Well, let's get into some of your specific questions around
balancing raw versus traditional with your four h three b
How have you been saving for retirement thus far? What's
been your approach?
Speaker 6 (21:49):
I have the automatic contribution set up through my workplace,
so I've been kind of hovering between. While we were
pregnant with the babies, I was down like eight percent
just so that we had a little bit more cash
on hand, and I'm slowly working back up to trying
to get both of us back up to the fifteen percent.
It's not maxing, which is my next goal. I think
is to max those accounts. But yeah, and then I
(22:11):
split pretty evenly between the WROTH side and in the
traditional side. So that's kind of been my approach so far.
I didn't get enough information about it, and it just
kind of seemed something I wanted to dig into a
little bit more.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Do you get a match from your employer kind of.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
So they do it a little weird. I have a
four to h one a as well, where they contribute
to it regardless of what I put in. So right
now it's two percent. When I hit I think six
years of service, it will move up to six percent.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
As you're calculating the percentage of your income that you're
contributing towards retirement accounts, include that two percent match that
you're getting as you work toward fifteen percent or maxing
about whatever you would like.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
To have as your goal. Okay, perfect, that's good to know.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
So now let's dig into how you can split your
money from ROTH versus traditional. I guess one question behind
this is what are your goals behind splitting it between
these two different accounts, just because do you think it
might be a good idea or do you have any
motivating factor specifically?
Speaker 5 (23:06):
I think it might be a good idea.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
And then also I know that like roths are kind
of like a powerful tool, and so that's where I
just don't understand if they are different between the roth
Ira and the wroth four O three B. I know
that kind of when it comes to retirement, what I've
been told at least is to have different buckets that
I can pull from between taxes, with the traditional being
take the taxes, then roth being take the taxes now,
(23:31):
and so trying to separate it to where I have
a relatively even amount between all of those different buckets
that I can pull from in retirement.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
So the main difference between a roth ira and a
four to OZH three B is in the contribution amount,
So with a four three B or four one K
you can contribute a lot more than you can usually
to a regular wroth ira account. And also in the
investment option, So with the former you tend to have
more investment options, whereas with the ladder you might have fewer.
Speaker 6 (23:56):
Gotcha, That's what it seems like it comes down to,
is like the investment options. That's like the main aspect
of my question is my Wroth four O three B
I can contribute I think it's like twenty something thousand
compared to a roth ira, which is around seven thousand.
I think I have pretty good selections when it comes
to my workplace. I have the target date retirement funds,
(24:17):
so I feel like it's like a decent idea. And
then I just don't know if I before I max,
should I even contribute to a roth ira? Is there
any aspect of that? Am I missing out on something
if I don't finish? And then when can I withdraw
from a roth ira compared to my retirement accounts within
my employer? So like my four oh three B for.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Example, So in general, you can pull from your retirement
accounts a roth ira tax and penalty free when you're
fifty nine and a half. There are rules around four
oh three BS and four oh one k is where
if you retire from that employer, you can withdraw from
their account at fifty five. So it's a little bit
more flexible in that regard. But I want to talk
(24:59):
about contribut to a roth ira specifically for you, because
a lot of people who are high earners can face
some limits on what you can contribute if you can
at all. So you're a nurse, you said that your
wife works in tech. I'm gathering that you guys are
probably high earners. What's your household income?
Speaker 5 (25:17):
We're at about two hundred and thirty thousand between the
two of.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Us, So for those who are married filing jointly, the
phase out range for contributing to a roth IRA in
twenty twenty five is between two hundred and thirty six
thousand and two hundred and forty six thousand, So you're
a little close to that, but you're not at it yet.
Do you anticipate that you might have any other income
coming your way this year?
Speaker 6 (25:42):
I think that this year I just got my raise,
and so it might push me a breath that thank you.
I am an hourly employee and so is my wife.
Like she works very exact hours compared to mine, which
I work variable depending if I need to stay over
or not, so it can fluctuate more higher than lower.
Feel like I'm going to be flirting with that line
(26:02):
like you're talking about. That's where it gets a little complicated.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I think too.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Unless you are really unhappy with the investment options in
the wroth for or three B, that might be the
safer bet for you because you're still getting the after
tax contributions and then you have a diversified fund to
pull from in terms of retirement accounts in retirement, though,
I caution people when they are close to that edge
(26:27):
just to maybe not play with fire, because you don't
want to have to do something later on come tax
season where you have to pull back the amount that
you took out in the roth IRA or converted. It
just gets to be a little bit messy. But I
would like to talk through a little more about how
much to put into a WROTH account versus a traditional account,
And there are some questions that can help you decide
(26:48):
what might be best for you. So one main one
is do you expect to earn more and be in
a higher tax bracket later in your career or in retirement.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Be my individual career or my wife and I combined
combined and individual.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
But for now, since you're filing jointly considered.
Speaker 6 (27:09):
I'd probably say post like forty forty five, I feel
like she'll probably stop working, Like our goal is to
send her into early retirement kind of as soon as
we can, so I feel like we'll drop off then,
but for the time being, we're only going up. Like
I said, I'm unionized, so I have set increases every year,
(27:29):
so I can kind of map that out generally for
the next career path.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
So it sounds like you might be in what people
call your peak earning years.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
I probably define it like that, okay.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
So in general, if you think that you might be
earning more later or you'll have a higher tax bracket
in retirement, contributing to a wroth now or prioritizing that
can be a good idea because you pay income tax
on the amount that you put into a roth IRA
at the front, so you would be paying a lower
tax rate on the contributions now versus what you would pay.
So then a traditional is often better when you are
(28:03):
in your peak earning years because if you are earning
the most that you may ever earn, you're also likely
being taxed at the highest rate you may ever be
taxed at. So in that case, saving for retirement in
pre tax accounts like a traditional four H three B
or traditional IRA or four oh one K can be
a better option because that helps you lower your taxable income.
(28:25):
You really just are getting a better tax break from
those pre tax contributions, and that is a big thing
to consider.
Speaker 6 (28:32):
That definitely makes sense. Would it be worth it still
to break it up a tiny bit? It seems like
the traditional might be the best option for me as
what we are describing as like my highest earning years
now from a financial combined income perspective, would it be
worth it still to maybe change the split like seventy
five twenty five.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That's about how I do it myself, because I am
what people may consider is in my peak earning years too.
But I want to have tax diversification, and that is
what contributing to a wroth and traditional gives.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
You as well.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
So how exactly you split that is up to you,
and there isn't a precise, one size fits all formula.
I do about seventy five percent traditional twenty five percent wroth,
and that just helps me hedge against future tax increases
because historically tax rates are pretty low right now, and
(29:29):
we have quite the blooming national deficit.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
We may need to raise taxes later on to cover this.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So contributing to a roth while you're also doing traditional
can help you sort of hedge your retirement vets in
a way.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Gotcha, I also split mine, so I have some going
to a wroth and some going to a traditional and
I think as much as the numbers matter, it also
maybe matters when you want to pay your taxes. And
I know that when I am sipping Margarita's. When I'm retired,
I don't want to have to worry about paying Uncle
Sam any taxes. So I like roths for that reason.
But it's a personal preference.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
And Ozabeth, I have a kind of a question for you.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
I think that you're more I don't know if you
would define yourself into the fire movement, but I know that, wow,
And so that's definitely something I've calculated in theory my
fire number. How can I best set myself up knowing
that it might be before fifty nine and a half, Like,
is that where a different type of account would come
(30:27):
in to where I'm not taking penalties and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
So obviously I can't tell you what to do, but
I can just share my own personal experience. And while
I don't think I'm necessarily on track to retire early yet,
it's an ambitious goal that I do have. And some
things that I'm doing that anyone can do to diversify is.
First of all, I have a brokerage account I save
in as well I also try to live a little frugally.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I say a.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Little because I like to shop on Zoro, but I
do try to keep my expenses way lower than my
income and just cut out unnecessary expenses. So essentially, those
are the main things that I do diversify my investments,
and also the pots that I'm putting my investments in
and saving aggressively. I think those are like the fundamentals
of fire.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Really perfect, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
Are you contributing to a brokerage account right now? Miss?
Speaker 6 (31:18):
I was, and it was mainly for a new down
payment for a house. Is kind of the idea. I
stopped because it's hard to know where we're at with
our next house and a down payment, so I pulled
out of it and just put it into the High
Yeld savings account for now. Didn't take out the contributions,
but I did just change where I'm contributing, So I'm
just saving in cash right now to the High Yield.
That's the only brokerage account that I have set up
for now, but it might be worth looking into for
(31:41):
the future.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Yeah, Well, if you are interested in the fire movement,
that is a way to save and invest without having
to deal with a lot of the red tape that
comes with these tax advantage to count like roth iras
and four H three p's. They just have a lot
of very particular rules that you don't want to get
on the wrong side of. So capital gains on what
you have in a brokerage account. Is a lot of
(32:04):
folks who are going to fire out's primary way beyond
you know, the other standard retirement accounts.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
It's perfect and some people like I hope to do
because I don't want to be doing absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Will still work part time, right, I.
Speaker 6 (32:15):
Don't mind working it. I like the option of not
having to do it if I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Now we're best these. Now we're best these because you
get it the.
Speaker 5 (32:23):
Brest to fire. Look at you.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
The show exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:28):
Gad to do my research. Come on, I love it, Mitch.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
I'd like to hear a little more about how your
wife is saving, how she's thinking about this. Is she
similar to you or does she have a different approach.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
She's similar to me because I set it up for her.
It's basically identical.
Speaker 6 (32:42):
But now we'll be able to have a discussion as
far as what she wants to do and have a
little bit of a better idea as far as what
might be best going forward. She doesn't have a contribution
match anymore. They took that away, and so I don't
know really what to do with that. If I should
continue to invest within the four oh one K like
I want to invest, it's just where and if it
should be with the company or not with.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Your wife's four one ye yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, you're
getting a great tax advantage by reducing your taxable income
by putting money into it, So even if you aren't
getting a match, it's still really helpful to be using
this account that you have access to. Many people who
don't have that opportunity are really struggling to save enough
for retirement because, as you mentioned before, the contribution amount
(33:26):
is I believe in twenty twenty five, it's twenty three
five hundred dollars that you can put in on your own.
That is much higher than the seven thousand that you
can put into a roth ira, and those are both
the limits for those who are under fifty. So think
about how you can maximize the amount that you're putting
in given what's.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Available to you. Makes sense.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
One last thing I wanted to throw in as it
relates to your wife's retirement contributions amount as she thinks
about different accounts that are available to her since she
doesn't have an employee match, some financial advisors will suggest
that folks contribute to their employee retirement account enough to
get that match, which obviously it is not an option
for your wife. Then go to contributing to an IRA
and up to max it out, and then go to
(34:07):
an HSA if they have access to that, and then
return to their employer's plan and then work on maxing
that out.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
Do you guys have hsas that you're contributing to.
Speaker 6 (34:17):
We just did her elections and so it starts in
June and my son has a procedure on June third,
So I wanted to play it safe and we didn't
know how much with a high deductible plan that would cost.
So next year our plan it does have the option
to drop down to where we do have the eligibility
for an HSA, but we won't do that until next
year unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Well, there are trade offs that come with having a
high deductible health care plan and an HSA, So consider
all of the health expenses that you and your family
might have and see what might be most advantageous to you. Well, Mitch,
we've run through a lot around retirement savings and different
options that you have. How are you feeling now and
what do you think you might do next?
Speaker 5 (34:54):
I feel good.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
I think it's always nice to get a little bit
of reassurance is definitely my big thing. And then just
with the aspect of potentially changing my split from fifty
to fifty between traditional and roth and potentially moving in
a little bit more towards traditional and understanding why that
would benefit me compared to just like shooting in the
dark and just kind of not fully understanding.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Well, thanks for coming on and chatting with us, sharing
your story a bit. We're really excited for you and
your young family. Keep us updated on how things go
for you.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
This time, and that's all we have for this episode.
Remember listener that we're here to answer your money questions,
So turn to the nerds and callers. Text us your
questions at nine zero one seven three zero six three
seven three. That's nine zero one seven three zero n EERD.
You can also send us an email at podcasts at
(35:44):
nerdwallet dot com.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
Join us next time to hear about how you can
get your credit back on track after some missteps. Follow
Smart Money on your favorite podcast app including Spotify, Apple Podcast,
and iHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes. And if you're
listening on Spotify, drop it's a comment right on the platform.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
And here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial
or investment advisors. This nutty information is provided for general,
educational and entertainment purposes and it may not apply to
your specific circumstances.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
This episode was produced by Testigland. Hillary Georgie helped was editing,
Nick Karrisimi Mixer Audio. And a big thank you to
Nerd Walt's editors for all their help.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Hey ba, fam, let's be real for a second, and
y'all know I keep it a book. The job market
in twenty twenty five has been brutal, no, not brutal, trash,
especially for women of color. Over three hundred thousand of
us have disappeared from the workforce this year alone, and
not by choice, but because of layoffs, disappearing DEI programs,
(36:59):
and stagnant wages that keep cutting us out of opportunity.
I was just talking to a woman and she's like,
what am I going to do? They're making me come
back to office full time come January, five days a week.
My whole life has been built around working remotely for
the past four or five years. How am I supposed
to act like? This is basically them telling me it's
time to go. Our unemployment rate has jumped to over
(37:22):
seven percent, while our pay gap continues to widen. I
know all of that sounds dire, but here's what I
want y'all to know. You do not have to wait
for the system to save you. We can build power
right now and in fact you, I know you, and
I believe in myself too. If we are capable of
learning the skills we need to pivot and to lead
(37:43):
our careers with intention. Despite all of these headwinds and
challenges against us, we are bound to succeed these outside forces,
these things that are outside of our control. It's not
so much about changing them, it's about changing the way
that we react to them, the way that we respond
to them. That's exactly why I created the Mandy money
Makers Group coaching community. It is a coaching community that
(38:07):
is built for us by us inside the community. We're
not just talking about how to negotiate or to how
to get the job that you want. It's about finding
purpose in your career. It's about finding communities and others,
feeling seen, feeling heard, and also having a sounding board
in a mirror to reflect your own magic, your own
(38:28):
sparkle right back to yourself. In this community, you'll get
group coaching led by me, but you also get peer
to peer accountability with proven tools and resources that can
help you do what we have always done, this rise
Even when the odds are stacked against us, despite all
the challenges, we will rise. If you're interested in joining
(38:50):
the Mandy money Makers community and having that support to
bolster you and help you tap back into your magic
so that you can lead your career with intention and
heart and your own intuition, trusting that again, please join us.
You can find information in the show notes of today's
episodes or go to mandymoney dot com slash community. That's
(39:12):
Mandy m A n d I money dot com slash community.
I would love to see y'all there. Enrollment is open,
so please go check out mandymoney dot com slash community
today
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