November 4, 2025 • 26 mins
Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette has teamed up with former Pirates All-Star utility man Josh Harrison and die-hard fan Mark Pokrandt (known better for his Twitter name “Platinum Key”) to provide Pirates fans with a new show, courtesy of the Foul Territory Network.
In their debut episode, the trio discusses what this show will look like before diving into the many issues the Pirates face following a disappointing 2025 campaign.
Subscribe to Bucco Territory on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts! Tune in for multiple episodes each week year-round! Bucco Territory, your home for Pirates analysis and insight, is part of the Foul Territory Network.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
What's up, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to the first ever episode of Bucco Territory on
the Foul Territory Network. My name is Noah Hiles from
the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Most of you watching this are
probably familiar with my work covering the team over parts
of five seasons, especially the last two as the lead
Pirates beat writer at the Post Gazette. Some of you
(00:29):
might be familiar that I started on a new professional journey.
I'm now the sports enterprise writer at the Pittsburgh Post Gazette.
But there's still plenty of Pirates talk to be had.
This is a new project that I'm getting started, and
it's not just me involved, and it's something that I
think all three parties involved are very excited about. Well
introduced by two co hosts on this program. Now, first guy,
(00:53):
I think you all recognize that face. Josh Harrison, former
Pirates All Star infielder Jay Hay is on the program,
and alongside him is Mark aka platinum Key. I don't
even want to call you Mark, Mark, We're just gonna
call you platinum Key.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
But fellas, it's great to be doing this with you. Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm gonna throw it over to you both. Now we'll
start with Josh. Josh, how in the world did you
get involved with this?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Uh? Man, everything kind of comes full circle.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Man.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
You know, baseball to take you places that you've never
been and uh, not ever did I think I'd be
doing a podcast, but you know, no stranger to you know,
doing interviews or being on camera. And spoke with Mike mckinree.
I think I did his show this past season, and
he had actually reached out to me a good coming
friend between I thank you and I know, and that's
(01:46):
kind of how we got connected. When the opportunity was
presented to me, it was kind of cool and I
was excited. It was a way for me to kind of,
you know, get back connected with the Pittsburgh fans in
the city where I spent a lot of time and
you know, it's pretty much sec an home to me.
So's that's how we're here.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And then Mark, I mean, you're a guy who doesn't
live in Pittsburgh. You just became a Pirates fan like
five years ago, and now you're hosting a podcast with
Josh Harrison.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
How in the world did this happen?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, it's rather surreal, But no reached out to me
and about the opportunity, and I had to think about
it for maybe half a second. Completely jumped a I
mean completely just honored to be here, so excited to
talk about KOs and can't wait to get started.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think I speak for all three of us when
we say we really appreciate this opportunity from the Foul
Territory Network. I myself always loved coming on their programming
when I was covering the Pirates. I think they covered
baseball in such a unique way, and I think we're
all very excited to add to that coverage. You look
at the three faces on your screen, and in addition
(02:56):
to seeing three handsome gentlemen, you're gonna get three different perspectives.
You have someone who is just a diehard fan like
he who is living and dying with every pitch on Twitter,
pumping out all those Pirates clips during the games. He's
there to just kind of feel how you're all feeling
the listener. Then you have Josh Harrison, a guy who's
(03:17):
been there in the dugout. He's seen what winning baseball
looks like in Pittsburgh. He's seen what losing baseball looks
like in Pittsburgh as well. He understands what the fans
want to hear. He understands what the fans need to hear,
and he also understands how the players are feeling in
the clubhouse and on the field. And I don't know
if there are any other shows in this market or
that cover this team that can offer a perspective like that.
(03:38):
And then for me, my job simply not to screw
it up. I've covered this team for a while, I
have some sources, I have some insight, but I think
my job here in this role is just to tie
it all together and make sure we put together a fun, unique,
informative product for Pirates fans. I'll ask you both those guys,
I mean, what are your expectations for this show?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Uh? As you said, I think you pretty much hit
everything on the nail. But honestly, just to give, as
you said, a little bit more in depth insight that
you know, most people might not necessarily get from somebody
inside of a clubhouse. And as you said, Noah, I
believe we've done an interview one of your early years
in Pittsburgh, so it's kind of, as I said, things
come full circle. But even then, instead of the you know,
(04:23):
one to two minute answer that they may get postgame.
You know, this is you know, a thing that I
can speak on for twenty twenty five minutes or however
long our show goes, and just give a little bit
more you know, personal experience, but also a viewpoint that
you know yourself, no or platinum key, you know, your
situation might not necessarily you know, had taken a step
(04:45):
back to look at and the same thing for me,
I get to see it from a different viewpoint.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, all right, so oh sorry, go ahead, Mark, No,
you're good.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
You're good.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Oh I was gonna say, I feel like, you know,
we've set we've We've set the groundwork, We've set the table.
Let's talk some baseball here. First episode, I personally don't
expect to get too deep into the weeds. This is
going to be a show that runs two days a
week in the off season. Our target goal is to
air an episode every Tuesday and Thursday, and so be
(05:16):
sure to subscribe on our YouTube channel where you can
get the updates and make sure that automatically pops into
your YouTube feed every time a new episode drops. In
the regular season will have three episodes a week, and
there will also be some other content that I'm sure
we come up with as the season progresses. There's going
to be some inspiration and maybe come up with some
(05:37):
new ideas and we'll roll with that then. But for now,
be sure to follow us on our social media pages.
We'll have more information on those when they're all officially
laid out. But first things first, subscribe to this channel
so you can get the latest on all of our thoughts,
and those thoughts will start right now. Guys, the Pirates
said into the off season, following a tough twenty twenty
(05:57):
five campaign, another last place finish. The goal, as they
said heading into spring training, was to compete. They wanted
to make the playoffs. They got further away from that goal.
It was a rough season for fans, it was a
rough season for players. I think it's easy to say
that everyone's frustrated with how things went. Josh, just as
(06:19):
a former player, I'm curious to get your perspective from
AFAR on how you viewed their twenty twenty five campaign.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
From Afar, definitely everything you spoke, even mentioning the fans
disappointment upset. Kind of like same old story. You know,
at some point you know you don't want to live
a comparison mode, but you see your counterparts in the
division making moves and doing things. You know, I'm sure
there's questions of why not us when it's our turn?
(06:51):
And I've been in those shoes before, not saying why
not us when when it's our turn? But you know,
as you've mentioned, I've been through, you know, some losing
seasons in Pittsburgh, but have also been through some winning seasons.
But I'm sure you know, at some point, especially when
you have you know, a pictures you know in Paul Skins,
a nice you know form system. I mean, at some
(07:11):
point you want to see things come to fruition and
make it to make its way to the big league
level and translate into you know, some postseason success.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, and I want to follow up on that, Josh,
because you mentioned the pitching, the farm system, Paul Skins
prospects for such a big piece of the puzzle. When
you were here, When you see those guys coming up
and you were at one point in time one of
those guys. That's great, and you understand the importance of that,
but do you find an equal amount importance. I mean,
(07:40):
you look back to when they were winning when you
were here, I think there were two very big moves
they made that change the entire fabric of the organization,
and that's when they acquired Aj and that's when they
got acquired Russell. And do you feel like that those
are the moves that are missing right now? Because we've
seen the prospects come up and for the most part,
especially the pitching side, the prospects have performed pretty well.
(08:02):
But the big move from someone who is in their prime,
someone who has played winning baseball, that's kind of been
missing right.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Oh, for sure. As you mentioned AJ and Russ being signed,
that definitely brought an expectation to the team won, but
also to the city. You know, two guys that have
won the World Series. You know that that you know
it was about winning. And you mentioned earlier, you know,
about competing. I had even said it in my brief stint,
well not even my brief stint with the Pirates long stint,
(08:34):
but towards the end, you know, I said, you know,
I'm not interested in competing, because that's what you're supposed
to do. Every night, two teams are going to compete.
You know, you gotta want to win. And when AJ
and Russ came over, you know, there was a belief
that we were going to win along with you know,
us that were no longer prospects coming up. So that
blend of you know, somebody that's been there, done it
(08:56):
with guys that were hungry to do it. You know,
it's pretty much like a match made in heaven. And
you know it wasn't just a J and Russ, you know.
You look, you had Clint Barmis, there were some other sounds,
you know, pitching wise, Leriano, and then you know, you
just look around at what they did when we went
for you know, they signed Marlon Byrd, you know, they
traded for Those were moves that you know, ignited us,
(09:19):
you know, not only just the city, but in the clubhouse,
you know, because we felt like, okay, these are not
only names, but people that you know, night in and
night out. You know, they they played a win.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Mark, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions now, I mean,
as from the fan perspective, what do you feel like
this group gives you any sort of positivity heading into
the offseason or is it just something where you say, hey,
look we have pitching. We knew we had pitching going
into this past season. It's the same group with the
(09:54):
same problems, and something has to change.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I think that's the hardest part of last year was
there was actually some hope going into the year. It
felt like you just had the rookie of the year
starting pitcher who's possibly the best pitcher in the league,
and there you're hoping that some of the young guys
were going to take a step forward. It felt like
they were close, and the end of twenty twenty four
(10:17):
was just it felt like things were finally clicking and
then it all fell flat and it was just that
was the biggest disappointment for me, was just the I
had some expectation this year, and so I feel like
going into twenty twenty six, I'm a lot more cautious
to get optimistic like that. I was told the exact
same thing last year that this team was going to improve,
(10:39):
They're gonna compete, They're gonna do things in the twenty
twenty five offseason and make the team better, to make
players in the clubhouse believe that this club wants to win,
surround themselves with players like that in the past, like
they've done in the past, and then it just didn't
really happen. I will say that like Adam Spencer Horwitz helped,
but you got to do that few more times. So
(11:02):
we'll see not exactly the most optimistic, but there are
some positives obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So yeah, and I could speak from my experience covering
the team, it felt like they entered this past season
with a ton of pressure because they were all expecting
help to arrive.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
They knew what prospects were going to be here.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
They knew eventually Braxton and Bubba and Burrows and all
of those young arms that they were going to be there,
and they were banking on that, But they were also
banking on the other flaws from twenty twenty four to
be addressed. And I think it was pretty clear, and
obviously my reporting covered this extensively that when they reported
to camp, everyone kind of looked around and said, where's
(11:49):
the difference. We have the same manager, we have the
same GM, we have the same prospects, and we pretty
much have the same lineup. Find us a few guys,
you know, you trade out a Michael A Taylor or
a Tommy fam you trade out at Rowdy Tiles for
Spencer Horowitz. But for the most part you have the
same core as there and players expressed that to me,
(12:10):
where it was frustrating knowing that you learned last year.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
That this all, this puzzle wasn't good enough.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And when you go into it with the same puzzle,
obviously you want to compete to be better. But I
feel like that pressure to play perfect baseball win on
the margins was what they kept saying over and over again.
It weighed on them, and that's why you saw a
team play super tight and make a lot of mistakes
(12:39):
and played so bad of a brand of baseball that
by the end of April their year was over. They
were ready to fire their manager and start focusing in
on next year. And that's got to be frustrating. That's
got to be frustrating to the fan base. Obviously it's
not fun to cover from a journalist perspective, but the
players they that's why they were able to kind of
(13:02):
come to me and voice their frustrations on these things.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Because these guys want to win.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And when you go into a situation saying, hey, we
know what our strengths are, we know what our weaknesses are,
and those weaknesses aren't addressed, that's that's tough to go
into battle. So we can pivot now, on that note,
into the off season, same same scenario. Really, we know
(13:28):
what the strengths are, we know what the weaknesses are,
we know we we have a pretty good idea of
what the budget is.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I don't I don't think it's fair to expect these
guys to bring in a Kyle Schwarber or a Kyle
Tucker or someone can. Yeah, but I mean, what what
should be the goal this offseason for this team?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Josh, I'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Go for this team you got you mentioned has been
holding up this end of the bargain. Offense Obviously, we
know that can fluctuate, but you have to solidify on offense.
That was one of the biggest things when we were
successful was our lineup one through nine. Even though pitchers
were hitting for the most part, we knew who won
through eight were and you know, guys knew where they
(14:20):
were gonna be. But not only that, we had a
good blend of speed, good blend of power, but we
were a team that made contact. I didn't really dive
into the numbers, but what did the strikeout numbers look
like this year? I know, all across baseball it is alarming,
but you look at the two teams that played in
the World Series Toronto. Tough at bats. That's ultimately what
(14:42):
you need. You need professional at bats. And when you
mentioned a team full of you know, uncertainty, a lot
of pressures, sound like a lot of guys that doesn't
that don't have a lot of time to where they are,
you know, comfortable in that situation because they're not used
to it. So if you got a team of that,
who is there to bounce off? You know, there's only
(15:03):
so many catches out there, you know, and cutches and
plant every day, you know. But at the same time,
how many guys in that clubhouse have the confidence or
let alone the experience of cutch. It's just cuts for
the most part, and when you're counting on the whole
line to kind of do its part. And as you
say that added pressure, I think you got it. You
(15:23):
have to go out and try to take some pressure
off of the lineup. You have to go get a back.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Mark, anything to add on that. You're muted, Sorry, you're
all good? Yeah, I mean they need to add power.
They were thirtieth in the league and home runs and
it wasn't close. They were thirtieth in the league in ops.
There has to be some kind of threat. I get
(15:51):
PNC Park is not exactly the friendliest place to be
a power hitter, but at the same time, you need
that threat. You're playing in Cincinnati, play make up for
it there, So I think that has to be the focus.
And like maybe like U Hangio Suarez or something, you know.
I don't know if he can replicate the season he
had in twenty twenty five and if the Pirates would
(16:14):
be interested in signing someone to that caliber, but someone
who brings power first, I think would be a natural fit.
So last season, this organization, there were tons of reports
about it, how they made a larger commitment to the
analytical side of the game, and some people had a
(16:35):
problem with that because the payroll didn't jump up a time.
I personally didn't because I understand that that's kind of
how you have to win in this era of baseball, Josh,
when you guys are here, analytics played a huge part
in your success. I think it was probably more on
the pitching side and then the fielding side, learning how
to shift, learning how to play to the strengths and
(16:56):
go and find wins in areas where you can't find them.
I think now that this new technology that they've invested in,
these hires that they've made to their front office these
last couple of seasons, it's time for them to work
their magic. This is not going to be a team
that can go out and buy the best power bat
or maybe even the most experienced, established solid three war
(17:18):
player out there. But when you look at a way
that this team can win, I think is finding a
way to make your pieces gel better together one through
nine in the lineup. I look at a team like
the Milwaukee Brewers. They have a couple of really good players.
You know, Cherio is an incredible player, Yelich has obviously
been a guy for a while. But what makes the
(17:39):
Brewers such a tough lineup to pitch against, in my opinion,
is because their number two hitter is a great number
two hitter, because he knows exactly what he needs to
do to make the number three hitter better, and so
on and so forth and down the lineup. And when
you see teams kind of built to play off of
each other's strengths, find a guy who gets O'Neil Cruz
(18:00):
looks when he's at the plate some lineup protection. Find
a guy who's gonna see a whole bunch of one pitch,
so the guy behind him if he hits the other
pitch really well. Find guys who bat well behind each other,
in front of each other. Put your pieces together in
a better fashion. Right now, I think my biggest flaw
with the Pirates lineup construction, aside from what you pointed out, Mark,
(18:22):
is the fact that they don't have a lot of
slugging is they have a lot of the same types
of players. They have a lot of guys who are
rather passive at the plate. They have a lot of
guys who are trying to pool the ball, I think
too frequently rather than maybe trying to hit something up
the middle or try to hit something to the gaps
a little bit. And I think that a mix of
approaches could benefit this lineup a ton. I think that
(18:45):
you look back to twenty twenty four when Nick Gonzalez
came back and came up in May, and he's a
notorious you know, first ball hunter, first pitch hunter.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
That gave the entire lineup.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
A spark, because when you have nine guys with the
same entire approach, it's easier a game plan for in pitching,
especially in today's analytical era. So I want to see
the front office, these investments that they made, These people,
who I think have pretty good backgrounds, make the most
of what they're the responsibilities that they're given.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Find things that find.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Traits and players that you can afford or can afford
to acquire via trade that gel well with the pieces
that you're going to depend on. Find other players who
will maximize the talents of a Spencer Horowitz, of a
Brian Reynolds, of an Oneo Cruz and other guys too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
That that I think should be the mission.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's not a specific player, it's not a specific name,
it's not a specific trade, maybe not even specific traits,
but complement what you have and try to extend that lineup,
like Josh Josh said one through nine.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So the anything to add on that.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Is because the analytics side, I am on the opposite
end of that. Okay, not that I'm against analytics, but
it's got to be blended well with what's already in place.
I think the big issue right now is analytics. Sometimes
it's being used as a tell tale or all in
when we use the analytics to kind of match with
(20:15):
our intuition of what we felt because if you go
back and look at some of those games, you'd see
some of our pictures and the way AJ would be mad,
why we over here when my sinker? You know, analytics
says to do this, but no, but I'm pitching this
guy this way. But at the same time, it's a
different error. We were all in tune with what type
of player we were, what type of hitter we were.
(20:36):
Analytics has caused some of these guys to think that
they're pull hitters when they're really not. You just said it,
no line up full of pool hitters. That's because analytics
says to pull the ball and hit it in the air,
especially at P and C, because if you go in
the gaps, it's probably called I've made my living going
gap to gap and I'm not the biggest dude. I
understood my strengths. Marte a blend of speed and power.
Plancho a blend of speed and power. Cutch was cut,
(21:00):
no need to speak on that. Then you got Pedro
bringing up. Then you got Garrett. It was a blend
of speed and power. But guys that also understood and approach.
Right now, baseball doesn't have an approach, so analytics has
also gotten in the way of that, in my opinion,
because for a guy to understand the type of hit
or he is, it doesn't matter what the analytics is.
(21:22):
You have to understand the intuition in the field of
yourself and then put that with the analytics. And I
think that's where the gap is because some know, but
the majority of people don't.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
So that in twenty twenty five with the Pirates, just
the way the lineup would come out, there was almost
next to zero consistency. It was unique almost to see like, oh,
they used the same lineup from yesterday.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Wows have happened?
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, And so like, obviously, I feel like that's like
analytics driven. You're like, Okay, this guy needs to slide
right here, right here, right here. But then how does
that feel like for the players? Josh, Like, when you
don't know where you're hitting in the lineup, does that
matter have an impact on things?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I'll be honest with you, it sucks. Yeah, especially when
you look across the way and you see teams that
win or have been winning, and they know who's hitting first,
they know who's hitting second. Okay, six through nine might fluctuate,
but we had a time where we were coming in
and every single day was we don't know who's hitting first,
We don't know who's hitting second. And I can remember,
(22:26):
you know, for as good as Couch was, we knew
he was hitting third. We had a year where the
lineup got jumbled up. He got moved to second, Guys
get moved around, and for the first month it was, oh,
we are kind of discombobulated because we just a little uncomfortable.
Not it's still the game. You still got to play
(22:46):
the game. But as I said one hundred and sixty two,
games creatures of habit being where you need to be
understanding your rhythm, your routine. You throw that off in
every day something different. I mean, it's kind of hard
to ask a bunch of young dudes that probably don't
even really their full routine how to come and prepare
because they don't know what to prepare for. Preparation is
very key, that's everything.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I can't help but laugh when you say that, though, Josh,
because I mean, you literally became famous for being able
to be plugged in in every position, in every spot
in the order.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
But I get it.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But I prepared every day everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
That's exactly Yeah, yeah, I get what you're.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Saying, videos showing to say hey do this. No, I
knew what I was capable of and I worked at it,
not being told and not saying that's what the pirates do.
I'm just speaking in general. I think there needs to
be an attention to detail as to the individual.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I think the biggest takeaway here from just this, and
I think probably the best goal that they could.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Achieve, is this team needs an identity.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Josh, like what you were talking about, you know, the
combination of speed and power, and you talked about how
you used analytics to enhance your game because you guys
knew what types of players you were.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
You knew what your skill sets were.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You knew what Cutch did well, you knew what Russ
was going to do well, you knew what Neil was
going to do well. You knew what some of the
bench guys could provide and what they couldn't provide, and
you use that information to enhance what you could do.
This team doesn't have an identity, especially offensively. I think
on the mound they clearly have one, and that's why
you're seeing success. That's why they've been able to develop
these guys so young. And get to get them to
(24:23):
the major leagues to perform at a high level at
such a young age, but offensively. Somewhere along the development process,
it feels like they've lost their identity at the plate.
That either they're trying to get everyone to be the
same hitter or they don't know what players to tell
to do certain things, and they've got to figure that out.
They need to have a lineup that together one through
(24:45):
nine can say this is how we're going to beat teams.
It could be you know, boom or bust. It could
be taking advantage of speed and playing a little bit
of small ball. It could be trying to hit the gaps.
It could be something. But that's what you pay your
analytics department for, that's what you pay your development people for,
and that's what you pay your players for as well,
is to figure out that identity as a whole and
(25:06):
become a better baseball team.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So I think we can wrap it up there.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I think that was some good ball talk right there,
and we can put a pin in it for next time. Guys,
first episode in the books, how we feeling feeling great?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Excited for the next one.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
That was so much fun. Make sure you subscribe hit
the little bell on YouTube, but we'll post on our
socials too, let you know when we're coming out with stuff.
But can't wait.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I think, in true Josh Harrison fashion, next time he's
got to have like a different spot in the screen.
We'll have him in the second and then we'll have
them at third the next time.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
That's how we'll do this. But guys, this was a
lot of fun. Thank you both for being a part
of this.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Really excited to go on this journey with the two
of you and all of you watching and listening at home.
Like Mark said, hit that subscribe button, Stay tuned, follow
us all on our social platforms. You can find those
by just with typing our name and we're not hard
to find. And stay tuned for the next episode of
Bucco Territory, presented by the Foul Territory Network,
What's up, everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to the first ever episode of Bucco Territory on
the Foul Territory Network. My name is Noah Hiles from
the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Most of you watching this are
probably familiar with my work covering the team over parts
of five seasons, especially the last two as the lead
Pirates beat writer at the Post Gazette. Some of you
(00:29):
might be familiar that I started on a new professional journey.
I'm now the sports enterprise writer at the Pittsburgh Post Gazette.
But there's still plenty of Pirates talk to be had.
This is a new project that I'm getting started, and
it's not just me involved, and it's something that I
think all three parties involved are very excited about. Well
introduced by two co hosts on this program. Now, first guy,
(00:53):
I think you all recognize that face. Josh Harrison, former
Pirates All Star infielder Jay Hay is on the program,
and alongside him is Mark aka platinum Key. I don't
even want to call you Mark, Mark, We're just gonna
call you platinum Key.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
But fellas, it's great to be doing this with you. Uh.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm gonna throw it over to you both. Now we'll
start with Josh. Josh, how in the world did you
get involved with this?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Uh? Man, everything kind of comes full circle.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Man.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
You know, baseball to take you places that you've never
been and uh, not ever did I think I'd be
doing a podcast, but you know, no stranger to you know,
doing interviews or being on camera. And spoke with Mike mckinree.
I think I did his show this past season, and
he had actually reached out to me a good coming
friend between I thank you and I know, and that's
(01:46):
kind of how we got connected. When the opportunity was
presented to me, it was kind of cool and I
was excited. It was a way for me to kind of,
you know, get back connected with the Pittsburgh fans in
the city where I spent a lot of time and
you know, it's pretty much sec an home to me.
So's that's how we're here.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
And then Mark, I mean, you're a guy who doesn't
live in Pittsburgh. You just became a Pirates fan like
five years ago, and now you're hosting a podcast with
Josh Harrison.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
How in the world did this happen?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, it's rather surreal, But no reached out to me
and about the opportunity, and I had to think about
it for maybe half a second. Completely jumped a I
mean completely just honored to be here, so excited to
talk about KOs and can't wait to get started.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I think I speak for all three of us when
we say we really appreciate this opportunity from the Foul
Territory Network. I myself always loved coming on their programming
when I was covering the Pirates. I think they covered
baseball in such a unique way, and I think we're
all very excited to add to that coverage. You look
at the three faces on your screen, and in addition
(02:56):
to seeing three handsome gentlemen, you're gonna get three different perspectives.
You have someone who is just a diehard fan like
he who is living and dying with every pitch on Twitter,
pumping out all those Pirates clips during the games. He's
there to just kind of feel how you're all feeling
the listener. Then you have Josh Harrison, a guy who's
(03:17):
been there in the dugout. He's seen what winning baseball
looks like in Pittsburgh. He's seen what losing baseball looks
like in Pittsburgh as well. He understands what the fans
want to hear. He understands what the fans need to hear,
and he also understands how the players are feeling in
the clubhouse and on the field. And I don't know
if there are any other shows in this market or
that cover this team that can offer a perspective like that.
(03:38):
And then for me, my job simply not to screw
it up. I've covered this team for a while, I
have some sources, I have some insight, but I think
my job here in this role is just to tie
it all together and make sure we put together a fun, unique,
informative product for Pirates fans. I'll ask you both those guys,
I mean, what are your expectations for this show?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Uh? As you said, I think you pretty much hit
everything on the nail. But honestly, just to give, as
you said, a little bit more in depth insight that
you know, most people might not necessarily get from somebody
inside of a clubhouse. And as you said, Noah, I
believe we've done an interview one of your early years
in Pittsburgh, so it's kind of, as I said, things
come full circle. But even then, instead of the you know,
(04:23):
one to two minute answer that they may get postgame.
You know, this is you know, a thing that I
can speak on for twenty twenty five minutes or however
long our show goes, and just give a little bit
more you know, personal experience, but also a viewpoint that
you know yourself, no or platinum key, you know, your
situation might not necessarily you know, had taken a step
(04:45):
back to look at and the same thing for me,
I get to see it from a different viewpoint.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, all right, so oh sorry, go ahead, Mark, No,
you're good.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
You're good.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Oh I was gonna say, I feel like, you know,
we've set we've We've set the groundwork, We've set the table.
Let's talk some baseball here. First episode, I personally don't
expect to get too deep into the weeds. This is
going to be a show that runs two days a
week in the off season. Our target goal is to
air an episode every Tuesday and Thursday, and so be
(05:16):
sure to subscribe on our YouTube channel where you can
get the updates and make sure that automatically pops into
your YouTube feed every time a new episode drops. In
the regular season will have three episodes a week, and
there will also be some other content that I'm sure
we come up with as the season progresses. There's going
to be some inspiration and maybe come up with some
(05:37):
new ideas and we'll roll with that then. But for now,
be sure to follow us on our social media pages.
We'll have more information on those when they're all officially
laid out. But first things first, subscribe to this channel
so you can get the latest on all of our thoughts,
and those thoughts will start right now. Guys, the Pirates
said into the off season, following a tough twenty twenty
(05:57):
five campaign, another last place finish. The goal, as they
said heading into spring training, was to compete. They wanted
to make the playoffs. They got further away from that goal.
It was a rough season for fans, it was a
rough season for players. I think it's easy to say
that everyone's frustrated with how things went. Josh, just as
(06:19):
a former player, I'm curious to get your perspective from
AFAR on how you viewed their twenty twenty five campaign.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
From Afar, definitely everything you spoke, even mentioning the fans
disappointment upset. Kind of like same old story. You know,
at some point you know you don't want to live
a comparison mode, but you see your counterparts in the
division making moves and doing things. You know, I'm sure
there's questions of why not us when it's our turn?
(06:51):
And I've been in those shoes before, not saying why
not us when when it's our turn? But you know,
as you've mentioned, I've been through, you know, some losing
seasons in Pittsburgh, but have also been through some winning seasons.
But I'm sure you know, at some point, especially when
you have you know, a pictures you know in Paul Skins,
a nice you know form system. I mean, at some
(07:11):
point you want to see things come to fruition and
make it to make its way to the big league
level and translate into you know, some postseason success.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, and I want to follow up on that, Josh,
because you mentioned the pitching, the farm system, Paul Skins
prospects for such a big piece of the puzzle. When
you were here, When you see those guys coming up
and you were at one point in time one of
those guys. That's great, and you understand the importance of that,
but do you find an equal amount importance. I mean,
(07:40):
you look back to when they were winning when you
were here, I think there were two very big moves
they made that change the entire fabric of the organization,
and that's when they acquired Aj and that's when they
got acquired Russell. And do you feel like that those
are the moves that are missing right now? Because we've
seen the prospects come up and for the most part,
especially the pitching side, the prospects have performed pretty well.
(08:02):
But the big move from someone who is in their prime,
someone who has played winning baseball, that's kind of been
missing right.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Oh, for sure. As you mentioned AJ and Russ being signed,
that definitely brought an expectation to the team won, but
also to the city. You know, two guys that have
won the World Series. You know that that you know
it was about winning. And you mentioned earlier, you know,
about competing. I had even said it in my brief stint,
well not even my brief stint with the Pirates long stint,
(08:34):
but towards the end, you know, I said, you know,
I'm not interested in competing, because that's what you're supposed
to do. Every night, two teams are going to compete.
You know, you gotta want to win. And when AJ
and Russ came over, you know, there was a belief
that we were going to win along with you know,
us that were no longer prospects coming up. So that
blend of you know, somebody that's been there, done it
(08:56):
with guys that were hungry to do it. You know,
it's pretty much like a match made in heaven. And
you know it wasn't just a J and Russ, you know.
You look, you had Clint Barmis, there were some other sounds,
you know, pitching wise, Leriano, and then you know, you
just look around at what they did when we went
for you know, they signed Marlon Byrd, you know, they
traded for Those were moves that you know, ignited us,
(09:19):
you know, not only just the city, but in the clubhouse,
you know, because we felt like, okay, these are not
only names, but people that you know, night in and
night out. You know, they they played a win.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Mark, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions now, I mean,
as from the fan perspective, what do you feel like
this group gives you any sort of positivity heading into
the offseason or is it just something where you say, hey,
look we have pitching. We knew we had pitching going
into this past season. It's the same group with the
(09:54):
same problems, and something has to change.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
I think that's the hardest part of last year was
there was actually some hope going into the year. It
felt like you just had the rookie of the year
starting pitcher who's possibly the best pitcher in the league,
and there you're hoping that some of the young guys
were going to take a step forward. It felt like
they were close, and the end of twenty twenty four
(10:17):
was just it felt like things were finally clicking and
then it all fell flat and it was just that
was the biggest disappointment for me, was just the I
had some expectation this year, and so I feel like
going into twenty twenty six, I'm a lot more cautious
to get optimistic like that. I was told the exact
same thing last year that this team was going to improve,
(10:39):
They're gonna compete, They're gonna do things in the twenty
twenty five offseason and make the team better, to make
players in the clubhouse believe that this club wants to win,
surround themselves with players like that in the past, like
they've done in the past, and then it just didn't
really happen. I will say that like Adam Spencer Horwitz helped,
but you got to do that few more times. So
(11:02):
we'll see not exactly the most optimistic, but there are
some positives obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So yeah, and I could speak from my experience covering
the team, it felt like they entered this past season
with a ton of pressure because they were all expecting
help to arrive.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
They knew what prospects were going to be here.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
They knew eventually Braxton and Bubba and Burrows and all
of those young arms that they were going to be there,
and they were banking on that, But they were also
banking on the other flaws from twenty twenty four to
be addressed. And I think it was pretty clear, and
obviously my reporting covered this extensively that when they reported
to camp, everyone kind of looked around and said, where's
(11:49):
the difference. We have the same manager, we have the
same GM, we have the same prospects, and we pretty
much have the same lineup. Find us a few guys,
you know, you trade out a Michael A Taylor or
a Tommy fam you trade out at Rowdy Tiles for
Spencer Horowitz. But for the most part you have the
same core as there and players expressed that to me,
(12:10):
where it was frustrating knowing that you learned last year.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
That this all, this puzzle wasn't good enough.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And when you go into it with the same puzzle,
obviously you want to compete to be better. But I
feel like that pressure to play perfect baseball win on
the margins was what they kept saying over and over again.
It weighed on them, and that's why you saw a
team play super tight and make a lot of mistakes
(12:39):
and played so bad of a brand of baseball that
by the end of April their year was over. They
were ready to fire their manager and start focusing in
on next year. And that's got to be frustrating. That's
got to be frustrating to the fan base. Obviously it's
not fun to cover from a journalist perspective, but the
players they that's why they were able to kind of
(13:02):
come to me and voice their frustrations on these things.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Because these guys want to win.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And when you go into a situation saying, hey, we
know what our strengths are, we know what our weaknesses are,
and those weaknesses aren't addressed, that's that's tough to go
into battle. So we can pivot now, on that note,
into the off season, same same scenario. Really, we know
(13:28):
what the strengths are, we know what the weaknesses are,
we know we we have a pretty good idea of
what the budget is.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I don't I don't think it's fair to expect these
guys to bring in a Kyle Schwarber or a Kyle
Tucker or someone can. Yeah, but I mean, what what
should be the goal this offseason for this team?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Josh, I'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Go for this team you got you mentioned has been
holding up this end of the bargain. Offense Obviously, we
know that can fluctuate, but you have to solidify on offense.
That was one of the biggest things when we were
successful was our lineup one through nine. Even though pitchers
were hitting for the most part, we knew who won
through eight were and you know, guys knew where they
(14:20):
were gonna be. But not only that, we had a
good blend of speed, good blend of power, but we
were a team that made contact. I didn't really dive
into the numbers, but what did the strikeout numbers look
like this year? I know, all across baseball it is alarming,
but you look at the two teams that played in
the World Series Toronto. Tough at bats. That's ultimately what
(14:42):
you need. You need professional at bats. And when you
mentioned a team full of you know, uncertainty, a lot
of pressures, sound like a lot of guys that doesn't
that don't have a lot of time to where they are,
you know, comfortable in that situation because they're not used
to it. So if you got a team of that,
who is there to bounce off? You know, there's only
(15:03):
so many catches out there, you know, and cutches and
plant every day, you know. But at the same time,
how many guys in that clubhouse have the confidence or
let alone the experience of cutch. It's just cuts for
the most part, and when you're counting on the whole
line to kind of do its part. And as you
say that added pressure, I think you got it. You
(15:23):
have to go out and try to take some pressure
off of the lineup. You have to go get a back.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Mark, anything to add on that. You're muted, Sorry, you're
all good? Yeah, I mean they need to add power.
They were thirtieth in the league and home runs and
it wasn't close. They were thirtieth in the league in ops.
There has to be some kind of threat. I get
(15:51):
PNC Park is not exactly the friendliest place to be
a power hitter, but at the same time, you need
that threat. You're playing in Cincinnati, play make up for
it there, So I think that has to be the focus.
And like maybe like U Hangio Suarez or something, you know.
I don't know if he can replicate the season he
had in twenty twenty five and if the Pirates would
(16:14):
be interested in signing someone to that caliber, but someone
who brings power first, I think would be a natural fit.
So last season, this organization, there were tons of reports
about it, how they made a larger commitment to the
analytical side of the game, and some people had a
(16:35):
problem with that because the payroll didn't jump up a time.
I personally didn't because I understand that that's kind of
how you have to win in this era of baseball, Josh,
when you guys are here, analytics played a huge part
in your success. I think it was probably more on
the pitching side and then the fielding side, learning how
to shift, learning how to play to the strengths and
(16:56):
go and find wins in areas where you can't find them.
I think now that this new technology that they've invested in,
these hires that they've made to their front office these
last couple of seasons, it's time for them to work
their magic. This is not going to be a team
that can go out and buy the best power bat
or maybe even the most experienced, established solid three war
(17:18):
player out there. But when you look at a way
that this team can win, I think is finding a
way to make your pieces gel better together one through
nine in the lineup. I look at a team like
the Milwaukee Brewers. They have a couple of really good players.
You know, Cherio is an incredible player, Yelich has obviously
been a guy for a while. But what makes the
(17:39):
Brewers such a tough lineup to pitch against, in my opinion,
is because their number two hitter is a great number
two hitter, because he knows exactly what he needs to
do to make the number three hitter better, and so
on and so forth and down the lineup. And when
you see teams kind of built to play off of
each other's strengths, find a guy who gets O'Neil Cruz
(18:00):
looks when he's at the plate some lineup protection. Find
a guy who's gonna see a whole bunch of one pitch,
so the guy behind him if he hits the other
pitch really well. Find guys who bat well behind each other,
in front of each other. Put your pieces together in
a better fashion. Right now, I think my biggest flaw
with the Pirates lineup construction, aside from what you pointed out, Mark,
(18:22):
is the fact that they don't have a lot of
slugging is they have a lot of the same types
of players. They have a lot of guys who are
rather passive at the plate. They have a lot of
guys who are trying to pool the ball, I think
too frequently rather than maybe trying to hit something up
the middle or try to hit something to the gaps
a little bit. And I think that a mix of
approaches could benefit this lineup a ton. I think that
(18:45):
you look back to twenty twenty four when Nick Gonzalez
came back and came up in May, and he's a
notorious you know, first ball hunter, first pitch hunter.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
That gave the entire lineup.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
A spark, because when you have nine guys with the
same entire approach, it's easier a game plan for in pitching,
especially in today's analytical era. So I want to see
the front office, these investments that they made, These people,
who I think have pretty good backgrounds, make the most
of what they're the responsibilities that they're given.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Find things that find.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Traits and players that you can afford or can afford
to acquire via trade that gel well with the pieces
that you're going to depend on. Find other players who
will maximize the talents of a Spencer Horowitz, of a
Brian Reynolds, of an Oneo Cruz and other guys too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
That that I think should be the mission.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
It's not a specific player, it's not a specific name,
it's not a specific trade, maybe not even specific traits,
but complement what you have and try to extend that lineup,
like Josh Josh said one through nine.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So the anything to add on that.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Is because the analytics side, I am on the opposite
end of that. Okay, not that I'm against analytics, but
it's got to be blended well with what's already in place.
I think the big issue right now is analytics. Sometimes
it's being used as a tell tale or all in
when we use the analytics to kind of match with
(20:15):
our intuition of what we felt because if you go
back and look at some of those games, you'd see
some of our pictures and the way AJ would be mad,
why we over here when my sinker? You know, analytics
says to do this, but no, but I'm pitching this
guy this way. But at the same time, it's a
different error. We were all in tune with what type
of player we were, what type of hitter we were.
(20:36):
Analytics has caused some of these guys to think that
they're pull hitters when they're really not. You just said it,
no line up full of pool hitters. That's because analytics
says to pull the ball and hit it in the air,
especially at P and C, because if you go in
the gaps, it's probably called I've made my living going
gap to gap and I'm not the biggest dude. I
understood my strengths. Marte a blend of speed and power.
Plancho a blend of speed and power. Cutch was cut,
(21:00):
no need to speak on that. Then you got Pedro
bringing up. Then you got Garrett. It was a blend
of speed and power. But guys that also understood and approach.
Right now, baseball doesn't have an approach, so analytics has
also gotten in the way of that, in my opinion,
because for a guy to understand the type of hit
or he is, it doesn't matter what the analytics is.
(21:22):
You have to understand the intuition in the field of
yourself and then put that with the analytics. And I
think that's where the gap is because some know, but
the majority of people don't.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
So that in twenty twenty five with the Pirates, just
the way the lineup would come out, there was almost
next to zero consistency. It was unique almost to see like, oh,
they used the same lineup from yesterday.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Wows have happened?
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, And so like, obviously, I feel like that's like
analytics driven. You're like, Okay, this guy needs to slide
right here, right here, right here. But then how does
that feel like for the players? Josh, Like, when you
don't know where you're hitting in the lineup, does that
matter have an impact on things?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I'll be honest with you, it sucks. Yeah, especially when
you look across the way and you see teams that
win or have been winning, and they know who's hitting first,
they know who's hitting second. Okay, six through nine might fluctuate,
but we had a time where we were coming in
and every single day was we don't know who's hitting first,
We don't know who's hitting second. And I can remember,
(22:26):
you know, for as good as Couch was, we knew
he was hitting third. We had a year where the
lineup got jumbled up. He got moved to second, Guys
get moved around, and for the first month it was, oh,
we are kind of discombobulated because we just a little uncomfortable.
Not it's still the game. You still got to play
(22:46):
the game. But as I said one hundred and sixty two,
games creatures of habit being where you need to be
understanding your rhythm, your routine. You throw that off in
every day something different. I mean, it's kind of hard
to ask a bunch of young dudes that probably don't
even really their full routine how to come and prepare
because they don't know what to prepare for. Preparation is
very key, that's everything.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I can't help but laugh when you say that, though, Josh,
because I mean, you literally became famous for being able
to be plugged in in every position, in every spot
in the order.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
But I get it.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But I prepared every day everybody.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
That's exactly Yeah, yeah, I get what you're.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Saying, videos showing to say hey do this. No, I
knew what I was capable of and I worked at it,
not being told and not saying that's what the pirates do.
I'm just speaking in general. I think there needs to
be an attention to detail as to the individual.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I think the biggest takeaway here from just this, and
I think probably the best goal that they could.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Achieve, is this team needs an identity.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Josh, like what you were talking about, you know, the
combination of speed and power, and you talked about how
you used analytics to enhance your game because you guys
knew what types of players you were.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
You knew what your skill sets were.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You knew what Cutch did well, you knew what Russ
was going to do well, you knew what Neil was
going to do well. You knew what some of the
bench guys could provide and what they couldn't provide, and
you use that information to enhance what you could do.
This team doesn't have an identity, especially offensively. I think
on the mound they clearly have one, and that's why
you're seeing success. That's why they've been able to develop
these guys so young. And get to get them to
(24:23):
the major leagues to perform at a high level at
such a young age, but offensively. Somewhere along the development process,
it feels like they've lost their identity at the plate.
That either they're trying to get everyone to be the
same hitter or they don't know what players to tell
to do certain things, and they've got to figure that out.
They need to have a lineup that together one through
(24:45):
nine can say this is how we're going to beat teams.
It could be you know, boom or bust. It could
be taking advantage of speed and playing a little bit
of small ball. It could be trying to hit the gaps.
It could be something. But that's what you pay your
analytics department for, that's what you pay your development people for,
and that's what you pay your players for as well,
is to figure out that identity as a whole and
(25:06):
become a better baseball team.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
So I think we can wrap it up there.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I think that was some good ball talk right there,
and we can put a pin in it for next time. Guys,
first episode in the books, how we feeling feeling great?
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Excited for the next one.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
That was so much fun. Make sure you subscribe hit
the little bell on YouTube, but we'll post on our
socials too, let you know when we're coming out with stuff.
But can't wait.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I think, in true Josh Harrison fashion, next time he's
got to have like a different spot in the screen.
We'll have him in the second and then we'll have
them at third the next time.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
That's how we'll do this. But guys, this was a
lot of fun. Thank you both for being a part
of this.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Really excited to go on this journey with the two
of you and all of you watching and listening at home.
Like Mark said, hit that subscribe button, Stay tuned, follow
us all on our social platforms. You can find those
by just with typing our name and we're not hard
to find. And stay tuned for the next episode of
Bucco Territory, presented by the Foul Territory Network,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!