March 11, 2022 • 49 mins
In this episode, the CEO of City National bank Kelly Coffey talks with John Hope Bryant, explaining that like in sports, in business, you always need to know your next play.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You really can't afford in your formative years to have
somebody to say when you're out of the room. But
so I never want somebody to say, oh, you know,
I respect John Bright, but you know you know that
you never want that. But you need to know if
people are saying, as you can fix it. It's like
I've had people who've worked for me before and I've said, look,
I would love to give you this job, but you're
too emotional. And when you're a leader, you got to
(00:21):
bring the drama down. You don't have to bring the
drama up. Bringing the drama down that all right. This
is John Hope Bryant, entrepreneur, founder of Operation Hope Bryan
Grew Ventures and the Promise Homes Company, and this is
building the Good Life with my friend Kelly Coffee. Kelly
is the chief executive officer of City National Bank. It's
(00:44):
a subsidiary of Royal Bank of Canada transaction that happened
a short few years ago. Before that, it was arguably
one of the most important independent banks in the large
economy in the world in one of the biggest industries,
which was primarily entertainment. It is now expanded significantly beyond
that I don't typically read bios, but I'm gonna read
(01:06):
this one, um, and you'll understand why I'm gonna read
the bio for Kelly as we get in the conversation.
But for every woman out there who was told you
can only be a domestic engineer, that's wrong. For every
woman out there. Although most men couldn't even be a
domestic engineer raising children and all that, most men would
tell us that miserably. But women obviously can multitask just
(01:30):
like everybody else. And I think when they do it,
they do it better in many cases because they have
the warmth and the understanding and of the passion and
the empathy for raising children and raising families, for turning
a house to a home, and men do not have
ussuit having the intelligence that that rivals any man and leadership.
And so for everybody who's striving and struggling and dreaming
out there who happens to be female, I want you
(01:53):
to listen to this interview. I want you to spread
this around. I want you to pay close attention to
what Kelly says and how she says it, how she leads,
and how she stepped over mess and not in it.
Here's her bio. Kelly is only the fourth CEO of
City National Bank since it was founded in nineteen fifty four.
Prior to join City National in twenty nineteen, she served
(02:14):
as a CEO of JP Morgan Bank's US private banker,
JP Morgan Chase. That is, she also spent more than
twenty years at the firms investment banking. By god, she's
only thirty two. For god that she managed that. You see, Kelly,
you know what I'm talking about. She's timeless. I think
she's got some black blood and every because black dog crack.
Don't know how it is she's managed in that age.
(02:36):
Over the years, she held a variety of leadership positions
there at JP Head of Diversified Industrial Investment Banking, Head
of Equity, and a range of other positions. I won't
go through all that is most of that in North America.
She began her career and mergers and acquisitions and spent
six years working in Boinas ad Is, Argentina, which, by
the way, US meet the largest economy in the world.
(02:56):
Once a part of time, she also chaired JP Morgan
Record Tation Risk Committee in North America and led the
Investment Banks Women Network, which is appropriate to this conversation.
In one Kelly was recognized as a Diversity, Inclusion and
Equity CEO over the Year by the Los Angeles Business Journal,
CEO of the Year by the l A Times, UH,
and UH Most Powerful Women in New York by Crane's
(03:20):
New York Business. The accolades go on and on. American
Banker this her is a five most Powerful Women in
Banking and this is a big deal because, as I mentioned,
America is the largest economy in the world. They also
missed her UH in twenty one and twenty and one
of the twenty five most Powerful Women in Banking overall.
The first list was tied to top teams. Look up
(03:42):
her bio, read about it the inspired by what she's
done and she has never given up, given in or
sacrificed her humanity. She's also just a nice person. She's
on the board of SNAP. UH have her company and
focused on improving the way people live and communicate. And
UH she's involved in her community, which including US vets
and other areas of UH engagement, including her work with
(04:10):
the Central Park Conservatory Conservancy says. There's Council on Foreign Relations,
Economic Club of New York. UH. She has a bachelor's
degree in International Affairs in French Lafayette College, and she
holds the Masters of Science and Foreign Service with the
concentration and International Business with Georgetown University. Nowhere in there
(04:30):
did you hear me say banking. But so she found
a way to use her talents and soft skills to
manage and navigate a business that people only relate to
hard skills are say money. As we say, please understand
the credit comes from the latter wo work credit to
(04:52):
which really means credibility and capital comes to the latterin room,
were capitas, which is knowledge in the head. She's got
both of those. She's got curnability, she's got knowledge that
she also has heart. And ladies and gentlemen, welcome my friend,
Kelly Carl John. It's so nice to be with you today.
You're making me blush. But thank you for that very
kind introduction, my my deep pleasure. Let's get into this.
(05:13):
So first question, how should become such a just a
decent human being? Like I'm always shocked by this. When
somebody is powerful and and wealthy and well to do
and successful, they're not a jerk. I mean, there's a
lot of folks I meet who are just impressed with
themselves and they come down with a case of seriousness.
They really believe that they are, for lack of better word,
(05:36):
better than other people. I've never got that impression you're
extraordinarily normal. Where'd that come from? That came from my family? Probably.
I grew up in a really small town in Pennsylvania
outside of Scranton, Pennsylvania, and in a big, loud, Italian
Irish family with a you know, a ton of relatives.
I think my father had fifty one first cousins. Sow
(06:00):
our dinners got really big. Yeah, our dinners and our
holidays are really big. And you know, I grew up
in a really you know, I do know I had
a very privileged upbringing in terms of the family, but
it was a very normal place to grow up. And um,
you know, I went to to public school up through
high school, and and then high school, I went to
a prep school, and uh, you know, I didn't go
(06:22):
away to school, but I lived there was a Catholic
prep school, and you know, I think, you know, just
based on my parents, my grandparents, I was very very
close to my grandparents and um, the whole family. It
was just everybody believed in service, and everybody was really
authentic and nice. And I think it's just I think
it's just where I grew up. It's what I believe
is the right way to live your life. Scrappy is
(06:44):
the definition of a city like that reminds me in
many ways of South central ol Aan Compton. I mean,
that's not exactly what you think the CEO, one of
the largest banks and in the country and the world
would would come from. And yet you you claim it proudly. Yeah,
of course, of course a great part of the world.
(07:04):
It was a great place to grow up. I was
really lucky to grow up there. But it was a
city that went through some tough times. Grant it was
you know, it was big and coal. Yeah, and obviously
that uh is not where it is today, and that
that industry went by the wayside. Not industry I support either,
but um but you know, good people, a lot of immigrants, um, Italian,
Irish and Polish in particular um and and a real
(07:25):
melting plot. So it was. It was a really wonderful
place to grow up. I have to say, you know,
I teased you about maybe us some some sister and
U s I s t A but Italians. You know,
Italy is southern southern Europe, and it's and it's right
there in the Mediterranean and you know you have that
puddle of water there to call the Mediterranean Sea, and
(07:46):
just south that is North Africa. If I were you,
I'd do some DNA testing. You you you so you
know you're so cool, you might you might actually have
some some sister. Yeah, I'm gonna go someone like back
check my twenty three and me I could. Yeah, we've
part of our family from Naples, like outside of Naples, Avellino,
and another part from northern Italy. So I bet I do.
(08:06):
I mean, I'm I'm seventy one, I'm seventy Cameroon Black European,
which is uh, of course my white brothers and sisters
and rest as Asian, Indian and others. So if I
hate white people, I hate myself, you know, Indians and Asians,
I hate myself. Most people, if they do at DNA tests,
(08:28):
they'll be stunned, stunned at how much we have inter
related and in common. And most DNA is exactly the
same of our core DNA is exactly the same. And um,
and you are you know, articulating or showing your true
humanness through the way you operate everywhere. What what was
that lesson from mom and dad? You remember? Is there
(08:50):
something about mom and dad and what they do for
a living. By the way, so my father's a surgeon,
orthopedic surgeon. UM. And my mom, as we like to say,
could have run armies, could have been a general. She
ran all of us we were four kids. Um. And
but with the first woman on the board of my
high school, UM, which was pretty incredible. Um. And you know,
they believed in hard work um. And and doing your
(09:13):
best and being respectful um. And you know, as true
love and devotion to family and country. My father, uh,
you know was a surgeon when he uh and he
volunteered and went to Vietnam um as a medic um
four year when I was maybe two years old. And
we live with my grandparents for for that while he
(09:33):
was gone. So you know what I think you just
the example they said in their lives was one that
we all saw. So let's now pivot those core values
forward into your adult life. Now you've grown up, you've
gone to college. Uh, you're now in what some would
say as a man's world. UM. How did you navigate that.
How do you end up in banking? And when you
(09:55):
ended up in banking, what was the first real challenge
you remember where someone tried to make you feel less?
You know, it's interesting. So I never end I never
wanted to end up in banking, but I do feel
like I came full circle because my grandfather ran a bank,
a small bank, rebranches in Pennsylvania and George, Pennsylvania, UM.
(10:18):
And I used to go with him, you know, on
the weekends. I would go. I mean even during I
would go to the I would go into the bank
and while he would do all his numbers spread out,
I would be doing my you know, probably coloring. I
drove everybody crazy. I worked in the bank in the
summers and um and he was a real community banker,
UM and so. But that wasn't what I intended. I
(10:38):
went to school and I studied international affairs and French
and uh and then I decided, instead of getting an
m b A. It would probably be good to get
a grounding in finance on Wall Street. UH So why
not go? And that's when I started at JP Morgan.
They had a very strong, probably about a six month
training program that you had a lot of NBA professors
came in, and I just thought it would be more practical. Um,
(11:00):
and so that's you know, that's I was really going
to go into banking for a couple of years and
then think about that next chapter, whichever happened, because it's
an incredibly exciting, interesting field. It's so broad. There's so
many parts of finance, as you you know, I've done
a lot of different things, everything from M and A
to equity derivatives trading, to UH to private banking and
(11:23):
now to running a a bank in l A or
national but based in l A. So's I've done a
lot of different things. And I think my approach was
that I always wanted to be working with people I
respected and had fun with, and then I always want
to be learning. I'm curious, so I don't like to
if I get to set in my way, I don't
(11:43):
like to repeat too much. If something gets too comfortable,
I tend to say, what's the next thing that I'm
going to do that's uncomfortable. So I that's that's that's
how I ended up in banking. Um. You know, it's interesting,
you say. I also can be very focused and hardheaded,
so you know, I guess I I never you know,
especially early on, I don't think I ever really cared
(12:04):
that I was the only woman many times in the
room or or even um I thought about it, um
that much. But I but I do remember an interesting
right coming into JP Morgan and the training program. You know,
such a uh an institution as JP Morgan was, and
there was we did our global training program. I remember, uh,
you know, a lot from Europe came in and JP
(12:25):
Morgan has a strong history UM in in London. And
I remember a British guy turning to me at one point.
I actually think I had gotten you know, they graded us.
I think I had gotten a better a much better
grade than he had on a test. And he turned
to me at one point he said, you know, we
wouldn't have even let you into this bank. Uh, you
know ten years ago some people like somebody like you.
(12:47):
And and he was I don't think he really only
met woman. I think he met Italian because you know,
he was very proper British guy. UM. And I you know,
I just I just that that in me says, you know,
so what I'm gonna prove you on your that's it. Uh,
it calls you to get up earlier, stay up, laid,
work harder, double down. Haters make you better, Yeah, exactly.
(13:10):
You know, don't get angry, get even better. Yeah I don't.
I don't tend to get angry like that. Um And
you know, outwardly, I just tend to get focused. But
that's one of the benefits of being an immigrant or
a group on the outside supposedly, or a minority or
a woman is uh, you don't get that easy shot.
(13:32):
And if it doesn't, and so the shot that's taken
it you either crushes you or it refires you. And
and it causes you to double down and be even
more committed. And that emotion turns into a passion, right
and and there is a beauty, and there is some
(13:53):
beauty and being underestimated sometimes I love the surprise. I
mean I still have it today when I meet particularly
older man and they asked me what I do. And
I don't think they're trying to be patronizing, but when
I say that, you know, just the face drop when
they say, really, CEO of a bank, And I enjoy that,
um but and put it to use. Yeah. Yeah. And
(14:17):
Quincy Jones, going back to the nosey part, Quincy Jones, uh,
I would say to me, And I asked him, how
did you get so smart? He said, I'm just nosy
as hell. I want to know everything about everything. God
gave you two years in one mouth and listened twice
as much as I talk. There's something else that you mentioned.
I think it's really important to success and it's and
I focus on and obsessed on it in my book
(14:37):
From Nothing and that piece where you said you were
you went to. Your grandfather was a bank CEO, and
you wouldn't hung out there. People model what they see,
you know. Why the kids. Let's just real talk, man.
Why are kids in the inner city right there in
south central l A where you are right here on
the east side of Atlanta where I am, or everybody
listening to this around the country can relate. Why is
that kid want to be a a rap start nothing
(15:00):
wrong with it, an athlete, nothing wrong with it, or
a drug dealer everything wrong with it? Because they're modeling
what they see. I mean, it's common sense. You know.
If all you see is as symbol as a success
or those things, then that's who you want to be.
It's not some stupid decision. It's a rational decision. We
have got to give them something different to see, and
(15:21):
you were given by your grandfather. The problem I have
with rappers and with with basketball players, of for the
pro athletes is it's such a singular personality driven unique
limited access opportunity. I need things that people that everybody
can do. It is why I want women to obsess
on you, because everybody could access banking. I mean, heck,
you're hiring right now. Um, we'll get into that before
(15:43):
we before we stopped, before we stop the interview. But
I love my friends c I and all my rappers
and and all my friends. I love it. But there's
only one t I. There's only one Oprah, right, and
and but there could be a thousand Kelly's right. So
the fact that you were there and you watch your
your granddad do this magic, Uh, it became normal for
(16:04):
you to be in that environment. Uh, to see see
people investing, to see people with balance sheets, and and
all of a sudden, now you're comfortable, so much so
that you're not even, as you said, thinking about the
fact that you're the only woman in a room. M
it's beautiful and we and and so you've got that confidence.
But clearly you all clearly, you also have self esteem,
(16:28):
which is different, right, which is which is the value
that that's that's the childhood I had, right, I had
great parents of family that supported me and whatever I
wanted to do. That's why I say I was. I
was incredibly lucky, um, to have in a great education,
which is core to doing anything. Uh. And it's something
I believe in and and spend time on one of
(16:48):
you know, and I think you've got a model. You know.
One of the things one of the great organizations I
was on the board on for probably fifteen plus years
in New York was KIP NYC, amazing charter school started
by Dave Levin. He's incredible guy. Um. And we would
always take our kids. We started in fourth grade. We
now go okay, all the way through twelve. But and
we would always take our kids to go see a college.
They had never been out of the Bronx, many of them.
(17:10):
And so you've got to see it. And then yeah, absolutely,
So let's not get into the meat of what does
it take to be successful as a woman, And let's
not let's just say anybody believes it's the same as
a man who is row right, I mean just as
a black man in business. When I walk in the room,
real talk, people looking at my shoes, my suit. Uh,
(17:32):
they're they're wondering what kind of car pulled up in.
These are things don't happen to a black white man
in business. Nobody cares what car that the white guy
will pulls up in, or that he had a car service.
I remembers with the FBI C chairman years and years ago.
He won't mind me saying, it's Don pal He's a
friend of mine. When I pulled up Kelly, he was talking,
you know, what do you think people think about the
fact that you're pulled up in a limousine and you're
(17:53):
wearing this fancy suit. I said, Don, Chairman pal Um,
that one a limousine. That was a car service. I
was sitting in the front, not the back. Everybody in Washington,
d C. Is a car service. Why are you picking
on me? What's the big deal? And that my six
thousand dollar suits not a five thousand dollars suit. I
can't help it about look good in the suit and
you don't, right, don't don't pick on me. And as
(18:13):
far as what people think about me, we should wouldn't
you want every so called poor person to be just
like me. I paid my taxes by time I finished
with him, Kelly, I warned about so bad, so bad.
He was trying to change the topic as quick as
he could because now he was embarrassed because he realized
his own unconscious bias, and to his credit, he acknowledged
(18:34):
that he acknowledge that. But there's so much of that,
and when you walk in the room, people are thinking
about everything else, but how smart you are? Right? So
what when? What's what suggestions? What thoughts? What recommendations council
do you have for women in the game right now
and women trying to come up and drab and grab
that lab? Yeah, it's uh so, I have a lot
(18:57):
of suggestions because look, everybody, everybody as an inherent bias.
Everybody's making judgments about you all the time, and you
can't let that define you. So that's that's the decision
you have to make. And one of the I think
the most important thing that I see women struggle with it,
and myself included, is that confidence, that self confidence that
I can do it and always showing that self confidence.
(19:18):
And I, you know, I I have offered many people
jobs and promotions throughout my thirty plus years in my
various roles, and I can tell you i'd say almost
almost every but at least eighty or nine of the
women have stopped and said, I'm not sure I'm ready
for that job. I'm not sure I have these five skills,
(19:40):
but not these five skills, you know. And and I
have never had a man say that to me, never, never,
so you know, and I always say them, yes you can.
I you know, I think most men walked in and
thought they could do my job better than I was
doing my job. That's the way they were, you know, trained,
or that's the that's the confidence. So I think number one,
it's competence and find that place to get your confidence.
(20:02):
And sometimes that has to be Sometimes it can be
a great person. I've had great um mentors and people
that I've worked with, both senior and junior. To me,
you can learn just as much. And sometimes you just
need a group of friends who will be the ones
to say you're crazy and and talk to you uh
and get you to that place. I've had, you know,
(20:23):
wonderful uh friends and networks around and sometimes I pick
up the phone and say, hey, am I nuts here,
and you know they'll they'll make sure you have that confidence.
But I think that's number one. You've got to do
the work, absolutely hard work, but you know everybody does that.
Um that comes to us saying you've got to know
what your stuff is. But you've got to have the
confidence to speak up and know that you're good enough
(20:45):
to do and and to take some risk. I mean,
I think that's the second thing I would say for everybody,
not just women, but I think take I've taken a
bunch of different risks in my career, taking jobs that
people thought I was crazy, that I was maybe going
sideways or backwards, But for me, I was filling in
a skill gap, I was learning, I was interested, and
then you accelerate. So you can't be that afraid of
(21:08):
what people are gonna say. You can explain why you're
doing something, but you know if they don't, if they
don't get it, that's fine as long as you've thought
it through and you have the confidence to do it.
I think that's number one. So the third, third, fourth
law of my of my five laws, uh in my
book Up from Nothing, there's five rules that I put
(21:30):
in there is self esteeming confidence and confidence comes from competence.
So if you're confidence, you will be confident. But self esteem,
what you're now talking about, comes from esteeming yourself. If
I don't like me, I'm not gonna like you. If
I don't feel good about me, I'm not gonna feel
good about me. If I don't love me, how the
heck am I gonna love you? And here's a big one.
(21:52):
If I don't have a purpose in my life, I'll
make your life a living hell. Whatever goes around comes around.
A lot of people don't really like themselves and so
they pick on other people like that British guy picked
on you. Yep. You can't take that stuff personal. You can't,
and you have to know. It's that's why I think.
You know we started here, and you know, how are
(22:13):
you when you're when you're an authentic, nice person? You know,
when somebody else is miserable or mean, that's that's kind
of what that's them about themselves. It's not about you.
Their their life isn't happy or something in there. You
know there that it's just about them and you can't
make it about you. And I just think I feel
sorry for people who are like that. Um, and I
(22:34):
don't I don't want to. I don't want to work
with them. I mean, I like to say. People ask
me how to keep the culture of our bank special,
and you know a lot of times my very quick
answer is just don't hire any jerks, and if we
make any mistakes, get them out. We'll be fine. Yes,
get about's absolutely no toxicity right now. Let's compete externally,
(22:57):
not internally. That only worse than being alone is wishing
that you were. As Dr King would say, I refused
to finance my own oppression. That so so, Kelly, what
I don't know about you, But the the only um
challenges I've had to my leadership are people who actually
(23:18):
I hired, who came from the inside, who in my
case were were Caucasian who thought that that I was
an empty suit and or whatever they thought. I don't know, Uh,
you know, I thought that I was what I was
doing was easy, and they were gonna unseat me. And
this is so you know, they've never it's never succeeded,
but but but it was. It was, you know, entertaining
(23:38):
to watch somebody underestimate to their detriment, right And I'm
sure you've had some of that same experience. And I
what I want people to listen to this to know
is it capitalism is a gladiator sport. Like, don't take
this stuff personal. It's not personal. People want what they
want and if you're in the way, they'll try to
run you over to get it. But you want to
(23:59):
see you should be doing like Kelly has done, step
in it and always it is true. I think, um,
you have to you have to not take things personally,
and it can be very hard, particularly early in your
career when you know, when you're I see a lot
of young people they come in and they're straight A students.
(24:21):
They do really, really well. Then they get to the
get to the office and um or you know, into
their job and they're getting feedback that they're not perfect.
And the way you respond to that feedback is one
of the reasons athletes or someone who's played in a
team is so good at this is they take the
feedback and it's kind of what's the next play? Don't
(24:42):
obsess about and I and I had to. I definitely
had to learn that, UM to make sure that you
you de personalize and that the other thing I tell
people who are starting to ask for feedback, you know
what is what is it that that you need to
do better. What is it you can do better? People
don't like to give it all the time, but if
you make it easy for them to give you feedback,
(25:04):
and I think particularly with women, I would say, you know,
just take the feedback and if you never cry in
front of someone. And a lot of men who work
in positions I have seen over the years are just
they're kind of afraid that they give the tough feedback,
they're going to cry and they don't want to crying
woman in their office. So you know, I just always
say to people, please, please, just like and by the way,
(25:26):
I've had two men cry feedback and on the trading
like a tough situation in my I've had a couple
of men cry not And I said, women, just get
up and walk out of the room and say I
want to I'm gonna come back and talk to you
about that if you feel like you can't, but do
not crye So so this, I mean, I just wrote
this thing down. It chills down my spine when you
said it should be the title of this episode. What's
(25:48):
the next play? I mean, that is so elegant, that
is so everything, Like never ever, ever, ever, ever, give up.
Don't let the perfect be the death of the good.
Brush you brush yourself off. It's hard to hit a
moving target. What's the next play? God, what a beautiful
analogy it is. And this thing about I mean, real talk.
(26:08):
Don't cry if you're a woman in front of a
man going to go into the powder room or whatever,
it gets yourself together. But don't deny your feelings, right,
don't don't bury that. Just understand that you're you're not
in a level playing field and they're expecting you to
do to crack if you're a black woman washing it.
Real talk now, don't roll your eyes, don't don't do
(26:31):
that thing with your head. Don't don't when somebody pops
off and says something that's insensitive, maybe even racist, step
over and not in it. Do not get emotional, because
whatever decision you make emotionally in business is going to
be the wrong decision. Then they say, see, I told you,
I told you they couldn't hand it. I told you
they are emotional. Say she's cursing me out. I told
you this, how she's a hand working in front of clients.
(26:54):
People forget the insult, and they was, and all they
remembers how you reacted, they just start to avoid. I mean,
one of the things I've seen I had a great
group of We had a great group of women. It's
still a jpmorg and still friends of mine. And we
used to always promise that we tell each other. Well.
First of all, we did two things. I think we're great. One,
we always talked each other up when we were in
(27:16):
other situations without them, like, you know, wow, so and
so is amazing, she needs a bigger job. She just
did this, because the guys do that a lot, right,
So we did that. The second thing we always did
is we promised we would tell each other what what
was the negative? What would what would people say? Right?
What are the things that because there's always a story
out there about someone, Oh yes she's great, but this
(27:38):
and you you need people to tell you the truth
in a way that you can take it. And if
you don't hear that truth, then then you just don't,
you know. I saw many times where women weren't getting
the right feedback. That's why that's why I think feedback
is important. And they didn't know why. They thought they
were doing great, but they weren't reaching their goals. And
it's because nobody was being straight with them and they
had real things to work on. Sometimes or you know,
(28:00):
sometimes it can be perception. But as I told you know, yeah,
as I say, perception is reality for people, You've got
to change their perception sometimes to get what you want.
So just you know, don't don't fight it and say
it's not true, figure out how to fix it. I'm
gonna say something that's a bit of a leap of
faith here, and you please feel free to disagree with
me when I say this, but it strikes me as true.
(28:21):
Um for me, I never want the word but used
for me when I leave a room, um uh. And
I can say when when you when when when you've
left a room with me, or I've left a room
with you. I've never turned to anybody and said, you know, Kelly,
is it pretty? Is pretty? Impressive? But or I like her?
But I never use the word both. I don't use
(28:42):
that word Tony Restor, who we both know, who I love.
I don't use that word with you, know. I mean,
there's a whole list of people that we can go
down the line with the You and I both respect
and admire men and women. We don't use that word.
But but but and when you're a person of color
or a woman, you really can't afford in your formative
years to have somebody to say when you're out of
the room. But so, I never want somebody to say, oh,
(29:05):
you know I respect John Bryan, but you know you
know I want that. You never want that. But but
but you need to know if people are saying, as
you can fix it. Like I've had people who've worked
for me before and I've said, look, I would love
to give you this job, but you're too emotional. And
when you're a leader, you got to bring the drama down.
You don't have to bring the drama up. Bringing the
(29:25):
drama down, no drama. And so but that that gives
people something to work on. Right then they say, okay,
So when you're in that situation, take a deep breath
and think about it. You don't always have to make
a decision in the moment. You don't have to react.
I I I like to collaborate. I like to hear
a lot of people's opinions. Sometimes people will will think
that maybe makes me a slower decision maker in certain situations.
(29:48):
But that's okay, because I think I make a better
decision um, And I want to hear the perspectives. And
I'm also then better at getting people behind my decisions
if I understand what the other points of view are
before I make it. If I come into a particularly
my job now and say we're doing this, we're doing that, right,
I mean, nobody's going to give me and I don't
always have the best idea in the room. I want
to hear from other people. And and so you have
(30:09):
to really think about that as you're as you become
a leader, and as you become more senior, how do
you make sure you're still approachable um, so that you
still get the best out of everybody and you get
the best ideas out on the table. So what I
heard you say there was if you just came in
the room and say we're doing X, you shut down creativity,
you shut down innovation and problem solving, and people just
(30:30):
say yes, ma'am and go on with it. And so
you may have made a good decision without a great one.
And so what you want to do is give let
it breathe not and and and you know it's funny,
I had a great um. Adina Friedman runs Nastac. She's
she's factory part. She's terriffic and she had a great
She found the same thing as she came in. As
we were comparing notes what she started doing, and I
(30:52):
hope I don't think she'd mind me sharing this. But
she basically said, you know, when you tell your team something,
but you don't mean you're just having an idea, UM
versus do it? She will say, light bulb, it's a
light bulb moment. That doesn't mean you do it. It
might be a bad idea, but it's it's it's a
movement versus I think it's mandate. I might have the
run or wrong. But when she's you know, something's decided
(31:13):
and she wants people to do it, it's it's a mandate,
like let's do this. But most of what we say
in meetings and things when we create, you know, is
a light bulb. And you do find as a leader
that people sometimes you know you have to stop the
unintended consequences. You say something and then a whole group
starts a project that you didn't even realize happened. Um,
(31:33):
And you need truth tellers around you or people to say,
she didn't mean that, stop UM. And so you or
find a way to deal with it, Like like I
think Adina has really really well. When you're when you're
more junior in your career, you have to figure out
a way to speak up in a way that people
hear you. And I definitely had that experience as a woman.
I don't know if it was as a woman or
just you know, when you say something and then somebody
(31:54):
says something five minutes later and it's exactly what you said,
but everybody all of a sudden thinks it's a great
idea and they didn't hear you. You know. The way
I've always thought about that is I didn't say it.
I didn't say it in a way that was impactful,
or something about how I said it wasn't impactful. So
I just kind of took it back on myself to
figure out how to do that as opposed to, um,
you know, be be negative about it at least that
(32:15):
you're you know, and I mean as a parent, you know.
I also I also love when my ideas or something
I say came back to me from my daughter and
she thought it was her own original thought. That meant
that she really was going to do it or she
believed it, Like that's a success to me. So the
leader you gotta like that, not feel like that was
my idea. And that's not the point. It's that that
person is supporting what your idea was. It doesn't really matter,
(32:38):
um that you get credit for it. Um. You know,
particularly my spot, I think there are moments where it
is important to get credit for it, but but not
where I am today. There's no limits of the good
you can do when you're not concerned about who gets
the credits. That's true. Uh and uh and and so
let's now we I think we I think women watching this,
girl's watching this, any of group to come up. You've
(33:00):
got now a good chunk of content of how to
manage challenges and problems when folks may be underestimating you,
and keep going and step over messing not in it.
I think you've gotten some lessons out. I'll see if
I can summarize. We pivot to the next topic. What
I think I hear Kelly saying, talk without being offensive,
(33:21):
listen without being defensive, and always leave even your adversary
with their dignity, because if you don't spend the rest
of their lives trying to make you miserable, it becomes
personal um. I also hear her saying, don't use twenty
words when two will do and uh and and if
you don't get the credit, get the results. Let's pivot
(33:43):
money access to capital. That's what the bank does. We're
not gonna talking about applications and all that kind of stuff.
I'm not gonna talk about the credit score, which I
obsess about. What's the psychology of banking, the psychology of
dealing with the city, national, or anybody. You know, you're
you're an entrepreneurity here, you're a small business owner right here,
You're what your consumer whoever? You are, your housewife, you're
your couple of building a family. You're trying to now
(34:05):
go out in this world and access capital and build
your brand, your financial brand, your balance sheet. What are
some big picture items that you want people to know
They're important as they begin to approach a bank beyond
the basics. You have a job, you you know, hopefully
you pay your bills so that your credit reflects that.
(34:27):
What are people paying attention to? Let me tease this
up to see if I'm right. You need a relationship
at that bank, if you can and not just be
a number somewhere. That's right, that's right, and that's what
City National is all about. That's one of the reasons
I fell in love with City National. And I'm here because, um,
as you said, we're we're headquarter in l A. We're
(34:48):
about people nine billion in assets, UM, so small relative
to the some of the megabanks, certainly where I came from.
But we're owned by a world Bank Canada, which is
a trillion US balance sheets. So what I think we
can really do is be that small relationship bank, but
still be able to do everything a big bank can
do and um. And that's where the relationship is really important.
(35:11):
So when you're thinking about banking, I do think people
forget that it's just people trying to help one another.
I mean, you know, maybe because I grew up with
the grandfather as a banker, I never really felt that
banks were evil because they're just people. Now, banks have
made a lot of mistakes, and I'm not excusing all
any any of those those things that that banks do, um,
(35:32):
that are wrong. But having been inside a bank and
a couple of banks, now, UM, there are really good
people in banks and um. And so I think humanizing
banking is is really important. And part of that is
wherever you're working with is find somebody you can have
a relationship with who will and take time to understand
your business. City National was built by entrepreneurs who nobody
(35:54):
would bank. Um. They were mostly in real estate and
entertainment and and and nobody. They were immigrants, um, a
lot of them were Jewish, and the banks of the
day wouldn't bank them. So I love it they started
their own bank, which I think is fantastic and and
became what City nationalists today. And we try to keep
that core um to everything we do. We're an entrepreneurial bank.
(36:18):
We understand the building of business, we understand risk, we
understand and so our bankers will strive to do that.
And I think so when you're someone approaching a bank,
whatever bank it is, trying there is there's not every
bank has that ethos but and we're not everywhere, but
I but I do think there's someone inside every bank
that has that ethos and you just have to find
(36:39):
that person who will take the time because you have
to do your homework. And the other thing you have
to understand about banks is we are highly regulated so
many times, uh, you know, and and there's a lot
of processes in banks. So many times when we look
like we're doing something stupid, we're doing it because of
(36:59):
some thing that's driving that. Many times it's it's regulations.
Sometimes it's just that we're bureaucratic and we're stupid. Don't
get me wrong. I'm always trying to find those places
where we're stupid and fix it. And so I want
to hear that from our clients, from our colleagues. But
but I think you have to understand that the bank
also has certain rules it has to follow. So if
you find somebody to have a relationship who will help
(37:21):
you explain that, and then it's about telling your story
in the right way. You're building a great business, You're
building a brand. Trust is critical. So if you if
you prove that you're coming through, you know you want to,
you want to come through on your promises. And I
think all of that builds access to capital. You know. Obviously,
I think we have issues around access to capital in
(37:42):
in many pockets, and the banks aren't always a solution
for that because of um some of the restrictions. We
can't give equity. There's certain things that you need, but
there but we can be connectors to other you know,
we can be connectors into that ecosystem of who who
should you talk about this? If we can't do it,
and then what can we do to help you as
(38:03):
you as you're building? Yep, So full disclosure and I'm
gonna give my own testimony here. Um. So, I had
a loan with City National in the commercial side of
the bank through my not my nonprofit, through my for
profit Promise Holmes company. Uh. I got that loan because, yes,
it was worthy. But I was introduced by a big client.
(38:26):
Who get me? Are able to get attention from one
of your bankers? Aaron? Who? Who? Who sized me up? Now?
Yeah he was being you know, Tony Restor introduced me.
But Aaron's job was to size me up? Is this
guy really not? And uh? And after that we we
did our initial transaction. When there was an issue, I
(38:46):
didn't want Tony to call. I wanted to call and
I wanted to call Aaron before he called me. I
wanted to call whoever was assigned to that account and
let them know, Hey, heads up, here's whatever it is,
you know, blah blah blah, here's was going to get
telling this story that that actually built trust, It built
confidently because they're like, Okay, I'm not gonna be surprised
by this guy. If there's If there's bad news, he's
(39:08):
gonna tell me first. Um and and and whenever he's
telling me, I can count on it and believe that
it's true. And and I never once called you, by
the way, on anything until I didn't call Kelly until
I paid the loan office. And I'm proud to say
it was a twenty in our alone by a black man. Hello. Um,
But I didn't call you to until I was done
because I I didn't want to ever burden the friendship.
(39:29):
Uh and and and so I think that we also
if your personal color watching this, you want to believe
in the James Brown version of affirmative action, open the door.
I'll get it myself. You want to earn your respect,
um and uh in in the two thousand, are alone
may turn into a you know two are alone as
(39:50):
you as you build your your your your bona fidees
with with the banker, but build your relationship with a
banker and not just with an app on the phone.
Well said, and you built a great business and we're
excited to be part of it. Thank you. Let's let's
now pivot in the times we got left. I know
you guys are really big on diversity and inclusion, um
(40:11):
and an opportunity, and I know their job is even
available there at the bank. Why don't you share with
the audience. Uh, well, it's your vision. What are you doing,
why are you doing it, why is it important? And
what comes next? Yeah, So I just very simply believe
that if I have a diverse team around me, I'm
going to build a better business and make better decisions.
(40:33):
It's it's It's as simple as that. And so you
know that has always been a priority for me in
every business I run. I've increased the diversity significantly. And
it's diversity in the typical way we talk about diversity,
whether it's sex or race, but it's but it's also
diversity of thought, which can be a little harder, right,
you know, finding those introverts. I tend to be attracted extroverts.
(40:57):
You talk a lot and can express themselves really well.
But sometimes you need some introverts around the table. Sometimes
you need some you can you know. I also tend
to be an optimist, so I need a cynic to
give me, you know, the other side. So you've got
to think about that as you as you build your team,
and and I believe it's better for our clients, better
for our business better, it's a more fun place to work. UM.
And so I've been really you have to sort of
(41:20):
think about every level. Then, So at City National we're
more than women. UM, we've got really strong we're more
than we're more than women. But I want to we
were not at the most senior levels. So of my
senior exacts, now we're we're over sixty of my executive community,
(41:43):
the top twenty people are diverse, about forty little over
women and we're continuing to work on that. Sevent My
highers have been diverse. And I didn't compromise on quality,
not even one little bit. I found fabulous people. Our
board is now we we added to women in the
last year, so five out our twelve directors UM are
(42:05):
female and we will certainly be get UM fairly soon.
So it you have to do bottoms up, but you
also have to start tops down so people see that
signal of we mean it, and and again they can
see it. And then I find as you get a
diverse leadership team, the heavy lifting is kind of done
because then it kind of it goes across the organization
(42:26):
and they're all building diverse teams as well. So, um,
you have to I think you have to measure it,
and I think you have to look at we we
look at the data, and we are looking at where
are we, for example, losing women or people of color,
what at what point and why? And if somebody's leaving,
do those exit interviews to understand why they're why they're going.
(42:47):
I was just reading an interesting study by Mackenzie that
said that for women, they're finding that that first promotion
might be the tougher spot. You know, what is it
that holds them back from that first emotion. Maybe that's
you know, the taking feedback some of the things we
talked about. And so now that's something where I asked
my team to say, Okay, let's go look at all
of our you know, entry level in each part and
(43:10):
how how are we promoting and let's make sure we've
got an eye or focus on that m to see
if it's true. I Mean, one of the things I'm
really proud about is, you know, I think the pandemic
was incredibly hard for women, and women took a real
um hit in the in the in the workforce. However,
it's city national. We increased our percentage of women through
the pandemic, did not decrease, and I'm really proud of that.
(43:33):
That doesn't mean I don't feel terrible about the broader um.
You know, industry or business we'd like to do and
you know, we've done things like double maternity leave, you know,
make sure we've got colleague resource groups hearing what the
issues are and making sure we're helping, whether it's healthcare, etcetera.
But I I just believe it's a it's a stronger
business if you do that, and so therefore, and everybody
(43:55):
I hire believes the same. So once you get enough
people around you that believe the same thing, it's it's pretty.
It's a it's a it's a beautiful thing. It is
a beautiful thing. And it reminds me when you mentioned
the percentages of the country Rwanda, where the majority of
those in government are women. Um in a country that
(44:18):
dealt with genocide and uh um, you know, it is
now one of the most peaceful countries in all of Africa. Rwanda,
Kali is very peaceful now and there are no where there,
no hutu, no tutsis it's just Rwanda's um. And so
they found that they're better together. I think what you're
saying is you're finding this institution. When you bring all
(44:39):
these pieces together, you're better together. Two plus two equals six.
My white brothers and sisters, my white male brothers and
my brothers. I'm sorry my male brothers should not be
also um afraid of this conversation. What we're all, what
we're saying is expand the table and at a seat right.
(45:00):
That's right. And you know I I say that. I
also say to them, but most every every white male
that's around my table truly is a believer in this.
And and I also make sure, like I really do
think diversity of thought, like I also do tell them
how they're diverse sitting at the table in a different way, right,
so that they don't feel targeted, you know, somehow, because
(45:23):
that's not the point. The point is not to take
away opportunity from someone. The point is to add opportunity
to for a lot of people. And as I and
as I've said, when we lean in on certain groups,
it's because of where I go back to, you need
the confidence. Sometimes a certain group needs a little bit
more attention because they don't have the confidence or the
help around them that others do. And so it's not
(45:44):
that you're trying to not pay attention on one, you're
just trying to focus in. Is I believe if you
if you try to do everything, you'll do nothing. So
you've got to focus in and work your way through.
And if and if we do this right and if
you do it right, GDP will expand gross domestic products,
the economy will expand, opportunity will deepen, which means that
(46:06):
everybody wins. When you include more people and when and
if city national successful this, you can go after more
buckets of business. If you've got Latinos on tap, you
can go after that market and all of Latin America.
If you've got African Americans on tap and Africans on tap,
you can go after those markets, and and women on tap.
You can actually approach a whole segment of the population
(46:27):
and making financial decisions in households and UH and who
feel more comfortable that there everybody wins. It's better for clients.
We need to look like our clients and that you know,
those are all huge pockets of of of the economy
for us and and that's why we need to do it.
You've got a bank to run. This has been a
(46:48):
fantastic engagement. You've gotta bank to run. I don't want
your office to run in and say it's been a
rio has been nisative and real nice. So what do
you want to leave? What's the drop the mic moment
for this audience? What do you want to leave? Those
were builders out here, Kelly, what do you have to
tell them as we as we exit? Well, first of all,
it's been an absolute pleasure to be with you, John,
always fun to talk to you, and for everybody listening.
First of all, thank you for listening, and to don't
(47:11):
give up. That's it, that's it, and maybe ask for help.
Maybe that will be my second one. Don't give up
and ask for help? And what's the next play? When
when the world? When the when the world's throwing crap
at you and you're being beaten down and you're you're
you're wondering whether you can make it another day, just
(47:31):
brush yourself off and ask yourself what's the next place? Yeah?
I like that. This is John O'Brien and this is
the master class on building a good life with Kelly coffee.
The CEO of City National Pay is a star, one
of the strongest leaders in banking and business period yet
(47:52):
alone one of the top females in a seat of
CEO in the world. Unbelievable she's created. But really the
master class lesson here that dropped the mic moment about
midway through the interview. If you didn't catch you go
back and listen it again when she said, it's really
about what's the next play. Why she loves professional sports
analogy so much is that when you get knocked down
(48:14):
in the professional sports, the game is going on. It's
not one individual that's sitting around whining about how unfair
life is. It's a team that's depending upon each other
and you're going, you're moving, and the question is what's
the next play? You better together. It's hard to hit
the moving target. Keep it moving, over the round it,
through it. You're gonna get to it. Never ever, ever
give up. You always think that the one that you're
dealing with that moment is the best one or whatever. No,
(48:36):
it's just the one you're dealing with. Ever, let the
perfect become the death of the good. Always just do
what you can in that moment, and when your team
screw up, tell them rather you ask for forgiveness and permission.
You want to lean into this world and do the
best you can with what you have as long as
it's done with integrity. In this moment, and live your
best life from this moment and every day. Bring the
best version of you to your job. Smile even when
(48:58):
you're being kicked in the teeth, Step over a mess
and not in it, and even when you're dealing with
an unlevel situation. Talk without being offensive, listen without being defensive,
and always leave even your adversary with their dignity was
John O'Brien ye
You really can't afford in your formative years to have
somebody to say when you're out of the room. But
so I never want somebody to say, oh, you know,
I respect John Bright, but you know you know that
you never want that. But you need to know if
people are saying, as you can fix it. It's like
I've had people who've worked for me before and I've said, look,
I would love to give you this job, but you're
too emotional. And when you're a leader, you got to
(00:21):
bring the drama down. You don't have to bring the
drama up. Bringing the drama down that all right. This
is John Hope Bryant, entrepreneur, founder of Operation Hope Bryan
Grew Ventures and the Promise Homes Company, and this is
building the Good Life with my friend Kelly Coffee. Kelly
is the chief executive officer of City National Bank. It's
(00:44):
a subsidiary of Royal Bank of Canada transaction that happened
a short few years ago. Before that, it was arguably
one of the most important independent banks in the large
economy in the world in one of the biggest industries,
which was primarily entertainment. It is now expanded significantly beyond
that I don't typically read bios, but I'm gonna read
(01:06):
this one, um, and you'll understand why I'm gonna read
the bio for Kelly as we get in the conversation.
But for every woman out there who was told you
can only be a domestic engineer, that's wrong. For every
woman out there. Although most men couldn't even be a
domestic engineer raising children and all that, most men would
tell us that miserably. But women obviously can multitask just
(01:30):
like everybody else. And I think when they do it,
they do it better in many cases because they have
the warmth and the understanding and of the passion and
the empathy for raising children and raising families, for turning
a house to a home, and men do not have
ussuit having the intelligence that that rivals any man and leadership.
And so for everybody who's striving and struggling and dreaming
out there who happens to be female, I want you
(01:53):
to listen to this interview. I want you to spread
this around. I want you to pay close attention to
what Kelly says and how she says it, how she leads,
and how she stepped over mess and not in it.
Here's her bio. Kelly is only the fourth CEO of
City National Bank since it was founded in nineteen fifty four.
Prior to join City National in twenty nineteen, she served
(02:14):
as a CEO of JP Morgan Bank's US private banker,
JP Morgan Chase. That is, she also spent more than
twenty years at the firms investment banking. By god, she's
only thirty two. For god that she managed that. You see, Kelly,
you know what I'm talking about. She's timeless. I think
she's got some black blood and every because black dog crack.
Don't know how it is she's managed in that age.
(02:36):
Over the years, she held a variety of leadership positions
there at JP Head of Diversified Industrial Investment Banking, Head
of Equity, and a range of other positions. I won't
go through all that is most of that in North America.
She began her career and mergers and acquisitions and spent
six years working in Boinas ad Is, Argentina, which, by
the way, US meet the largest economy in the world.
(02:56):
Once a part of time, she also chaired JP Morgan
Record Tation Risk Committee in North America and led the
Investment Banks Women Network, which is appropriate to this conversation.
In one Kelly was recognized as a Diversity, Inclusion and
Equity CEO over the Year by the Los Angeles Business Journal,
CEO of the Year by the l A Times, UH,
and UH Most Powerful Women in New York by Crane's
(03:20):
New York Business. The accolades go on and on. American
Banker this her is a five most Powerful Women in
Banking and this is a big deal because, as I mentioned,
America is the largest economy in the world. They also
missed her UH in twenty one and twenty and one
of the twenty five most Powerful Women in Banking overall.
The first list was tied to top teams. Look up
(03:42):
her bio, read about it the inspired by what she's
done and she has never given up, given in or
sacrificed her humanity. She's also just a nice person. She's
on the board of SNAP. UH have her company and
focused on improving the way people live and communicate. And
UH she's involved in her community, which including US vets
and other areas of UH engagement, including her work with
(04:10):
the Central Park Conservatory Conservancy says. There's Council on Foreign Relations,
Economic Club of New York. UH. She has a bachelor's
degree in International Affairs in French Lafayette College, and she
holds the Masters of Science and Foreign Service with the
concentration and International Business with Georgetown University. Nowhere in there
(04:30):
did you hear me say banking. But so she found
a way to use her talents and soft skills to
manage and navigate a business that people only relate to
hard skills are say money. As we say, please understand
the credit comes from the latter wo work credit to
(04:52):
which really means credibility and capital comes to the latterin room,
were capitas, which is knowledge in the head. She's got
both of those. She's got curnability, she's got knowledge that
she also has heart. And ladies and gentlemen, welcome my friend,
Kelly Carl John. It's so nice to be with you today.
You're making me blush. But thank you for that very
kind introduction, my my deep pleasure. Let's get into this.
(05:13):
So first question, how should become such a just a
decent human being? Like I'm always shocked by this. When
somebody is powerful and and wealthy and well to do
and successful, they're not a jerk. I mean, there's a
lot of folks I meet who are just impressed with
themselves and they come down with a case of seriousness.
They really believe that they are, for lack of better word,
(05:36):
better than other people. I've never got that impression you're
extraordinarily normal. Where'd that come from? That came from my family? Probably.
I grew up in a really small town in Pennsylvania
outside of Scranton, Pennsylvania, and in a big, loud, Italian
Irish family with a you know, a ton of relatives.
I think my father had fifty one first cousins. Sow
(06:00):
our dinners got really big. Yeah, our dinners and our
holidays are really big. And you know, I grew up
in a really you know, I do know I had
a very privileged upbringing in terms of the family, but
it was a very normal place to grow up. And um,
you know, I went to to public school up through
high school, and and then high school, I went to
a prep school, and uh, you know, I didn't go
(06:22):
away to school, but I lived there was a Catholic
prep school, and you know, I think, you know, just
based on my parents, my grandparents, I was very very
close to my grandparents and um, the whole family. It
was just everybody believed in service, and everybody was really
authentic and nice. And I think it's just I think
it's just where I grew up. It's what I believe
is the right way to live your life. Scrappy is
(06:44):
the definition of a city like that reminds me in
many ways of South central ol Aan Compton. I mean,
that's not exactly what you think the CEO, one of
the largest banks and in the country and the world
would would come from. And yet you you claim it proudly. Yeah,
of course, of course a great part of the world.
(07:04):
It was a great place to grow up. I was
really lucky to grow up there. But it was a
city that went through some tough times. Grant it was
you know, it was big and coal. Yeah, and obviously
that uh is not where it is today, and that
that industry went by the wayside. Not industry I support either,
but um but you know, good people, a lot of immigrants, um, Italian,
Irish and Polish in particular um and and a real
(07:25):
melting plot. So it was. It was a really wonderful
place to grow up. I have to say, you know,
I teased you about maybe us some some sister and
U s I s t A but Italians. You know,
Italy is southern southern Europe, and it's and it's right
there in the Mediterranean and you know you have that
puddle of water there to call the Mediterranean Sea, and
(07:46):
just south that is North Africa. If I were you,
I'd do some DNA testing. You you you so you
know you're so cool, you might you might actually have
some some sister. Yeah, I'm gonna go someone like back
check my twenty three and me I could. Yeah, we've
part of our family from Naples, like outside of Naples, Avellino,
and another part from northern Italy. So I bet I do.
(08:06):
I mean, I'm I'm seventy one, I'm seventy Cameroon Black European,
which is uh, of course my white brothers and sisters
and rest as Asian, Indian and others. So if I
hate white people, I hate myself, you know, Indians and Asians,
I hate myself. Most people, if they do at DNA tests,
(08:28):
they'll be stunned, stunned at how much we have inter
related and in common. And most DNA is exactly the
same of our core DNA is exactly the same. And um,
and you are you know, articulating or showing your true
humanness through the way you operate everywhere. What what was
that lesson from mom and dad? You remember? Is there
(08:50):
something about mom and dad and what they do for
a living. By the way, so my father's a surgeon,
orthopedic surgeon. UM. And my mom, as we like to say,
could have run armies, could have been a general. She
ran all of us we were four kids. Um. And
but with the first woman on the board of my
high school, UM, which was pretty incredible. Um. And you know,
they believed in hard work um. And and doing your
(09:13):
best and being respectful um. And you know, as true
love and devotion to family and country. My father, uh,
you know was a surgeon when he uh and he
volunteered and went to Vietnam um as a medic um
four year when I was maybe two years old. And
we live with my grandparents for for that while he
(09:33):
was gone. So you know what I think you just
the example they said in their lives was one that
we all saw. So let's now pivot those core values
forward into your adult life. Now you've grown up, you've
gone to college. Uh, you're now in what some would
say as a man's world. UM. How did you navigate that.
How do you end up in banking? And when you
(09:55):
ended up in banking, what was the first real challenge
you remember where someone tried to make you feel less?
You know, it's interesting. So I never end I never
wanted to end up in banking, but I do feel
like I came full circle because my grandfather ran a bank,
a small bank, rebranches in Pennsylvania and George, Pennsylvania, UM.
(10:18):
And I used to go with him, you know, on
the weekends. I would go. I mean even during I
would go to the I would go into the bank
and while he would do all his numbers spread out,
I would be doing my you know, probably coloring. I
drove everybody crazy. I worked in the bank in the
summers and um and he was a real community banker,
UM and so. But that wasn't what I intended. I
(10:38):
went to school and I studied international affairs and French
and uh and then I decided, instead of getting an
m b A. It would probably be good to get
a grounding in finance on Wall Street. UH So why
not go? And that's when I started at JP Morgan.
They had a very strong, probably about a six month
training program that you had a lot of NBA professors
came in, and I just thought it would be more practical. Um,
(11:00):
and so that's you know, that's I was really going
to go into banking for a couple of years and
then think about that next chapter, whichever happened, because it's
an incredibly exciting, interesting field. It's so broad. There's so
many parts of finance, as you you know, I've done
a lot of different things, everything from M and A
to equity derivatives trading, to UH to private banking and
(11:23):
now to running a a bank in l A or
national but based in l A. So's I've done a
lot of different things. And I think my approach was
that I always wanted to be working with people I
respected and had fun with, and then I always want
to be learning. I'm curious, so I don't like to
if I get to set in my way, I don't
(11:43):
like to repeat too much. If something gets too comfortable,
I tend to say, what's the next thing that I'm
going to do that's uncomfortable. So I that's that's that's
how I ended up in banking. Um. You know, it's interesting,
you say. I also can be very focused and hardheaded,
so you know, I guess I I never you know,
especially early on, I don't think I ever really cared
(12:04):
that I was the only woman many times in the
room or or even um I thought about it, um
that much. But I but I do remember an interesting
right coming into JP Morgan and the training program. You know,
such a uh an institution as JP Morgan was, and
there was we did our global training program. I remember, uh,
you know, a lot from Europe came in and JP
(12:25):
Morgan has a strong history UM in in London. And
I remember a British guy turning to me at one point.
I actually think I had gotten you know, they graded us.
I think I had gotten a better a much better
grade than he had on a test. And he turned
to me at one point he said, you know, we
wouldn't have even let you into this bank. Uh, you
know ten years ago some people like somebody like you.
(12:47):
And and he was I don't think he really only
met woman. I think he met Italian because you know,
he was very proper British guy. UM. And I you know,
I just I just that that in me says, you know,
so what I'm gonna prove you on your that's it. Uh,
it calls you to get up earlier, stay up, laid,
work harder, double down. Haters make you better, Yeah, exactly.
(13:10):
You know, don't get angry, get even better. Yeah I don't.
I don't tend to get angry like that. Um And
you know, outwardly, I just tend to get focused. But
that's one of the benefits of being an immigrant or
a group on the outside supposedly, or a minority or
a woman is uh, you don't get that easy shot.
(13:32):
And if it doesn't, and so the shot that's taken
it you either crushes you or it refires you. And
and it causes you to double down and be even
more committed. And that emotion turns into a passion, right
and and there is a beauty, and there is some
(13:53):
beauty and being underestimated sometimes I love the surprise. I
mean I still have it today when I meet particularly
older man and they asked me what I do. And
I don't think they're trying to be patronizing, but when
I say that, you know, just the face drop when
they say, really, CEO of a bank, And I enjoy that,
um but and put it to use. Yeah. Yeah. And
(14:17):
Quincy Jones, going back to the nosey part, Quincy Jones, uh,
I would say to me, And I asked him, how
did you get so smart? He said, I'm just nosy
as hell. I want to know everything about everything. God
gave you two years in one mouth and listened twice
as much as I talk. There's something else that you mentioned.
I think it's really important to success and it's and
I focus on and obsessed on it in my book
(14:37):
From Nothing and that piece where you said you were
you went to. Your grandfather was a bank CEO, and
you wouldn't hung out there. People model what they see,
you know. Why the kids. Let's just real talk, man.
Why are kids in the inner city right there in
south central l A where you are right here on
the east side of Atlanta where I am, or everybody
listening to this around the country can relate. Why is
that kid want to be a a rap start nothing
(15:00):
wrong with it, an athlete, nothing wrong with it, or
a drug dealer everything wrong with it? Because they're modeling
what they see. I mean, it's common sense. You know.
If all you see is as symbol as a success
or those things, then that's who you want to be.
It's not some stupid decision. It's a rational decision. We
have got to give them something different to see, and
(15:21):
you were given by your grandfather. The problem I have
with rappers and with with basketball players, of for the
pro athletes is it's such a singular personality driven unique
limited access opportunity. I need things that people that everybody
can do. It is why I want women to obsess
on you, because everybody could access banking. I mean, heck,
you're hiring right now. Um, we'll get into that before
(15:43):
we before we stopped, before we stop the interview. But
I love my friends c I and all my rappers
and and all my friends. I love it. But there's
only one t I. There's only one Oprah, right, and
and but there could be a thousand Kelly's right. So
the fact that you were there and you watch your
your granddad do this magic, Uh, it became normal for
(16:04):
you to be in that environment. Uh, to see see
people investing, to see people with balance sheets, and and
all of a sudden, now you're comfortable, so much so
that you're not even, as you said, thinking about the
fact that you're the only woman in a room. M
it's beautiful and we and and so you've got that confidence.
But clearly you all clearly, you also have self esteem,
(16:28):
which is different, right, which is which is the value
that that's that's the childhood I had, right, I had
great parents of family that supported me and whatever I
wanted to do. That's why I say I was. I
was incredibly lucky, um, to have in a great education,
which is core to doing anything. Uh. And it's something
I believe in and and spend time on one of
(16:48):
you know, and I think you've got a model. You know.
One of the things one of the great organizations I
was on the board on for probably fifteen plus years
in New York was KIP NYC, amazing charter school started
by Dave Levin. He's incredible guy. Um. And we would
always take our kids. We started in fourth grade. We
now go okay, all the way through twelve. But and
we would always take our kids to go see a college.
They had never been out of the Bronx, many of them.
(17:10):
And so you've got to see it. And then yeah, absolutely,
So let's not get into the meat of what does
it take to be successful as a woman, And let's
not let's just say anybody believes it's the same as
a man who is row right, I mean just as
a black man in business. When I walk in the room,
real talk, people looking at my shoes, my suit. Uh,
(17:32):
they're they're wondering what kind of car pulled up in.
These are things don't happen to a black white man
in business. Nobody cares what car that the white guy
will pulls up in, or that he had a car service.
I remembers with the FBI C chairman years and years ago.
He won't mind me saying, it's Don pal He's a
friend of mine. When I pulled up Kelly, he was talking,
you know, what do you think people think about the
fact that you're pulled up in a limousine and you're
(17:53):
wearing this fancy suit. I said, Don, Chairman pal Um,
that one a limousine. That was a car service. I
was sitting in the front, not the back. Everybody in Washington,
d C. Is a car service. Why are you picking
on me? What's the big deal? And that my six
thousand dollar suits not a five thousand dollars suit. I
can't help it about look good in the suit and
you don't, right, don't don't pick on me. And as
(18:13):
far as what people think about me, we should wouldn't
you want every so called poor person to be just
like me. I paid my taxes by time I finished
with him, Kelly, I warned about so bad, so bad.
He was trying to change the topic as quick as
he could because now he was embarrassed because he realized
his own unconscious bias, and to his credit, he acknowledged
(18:34):
that he acknowledge that. But there's so much of that,
and when you walk in the room, people are thinking
about everything else, but how smart you are? Right? So
what when? What's what suggestions? What thoughts? What recommendations council
do you have for women in the game right now
and women trying to come up and drab and grab
that lab? Yeah, it's uh so, I have a lot
(18:57):
of suggestions because look, everybody, everybody as an inherent bias.
Everybody's making judgments about you all the time, and you
can't let that define you. So that's that's the decision
you have to make. And one of the I think
the most important thing that I see women struggle with it,
and myself included, is that confidence, that self confidence that
I can do it and always showing that self confidence.
(19:18):
And I, you know, I I have offered many people
jobs and promotions throughout my thirty plus years in my
various roles, and I can tell you i'd say almost
almost every but at least eighty or nine of the
women have stopped and said, I'm not sure I'm ready
for that job. I'm not sure I have these five skills,
(19:40):
but not these five skills, you know. And and I
have never had a man say that to me, never, never,
so you know, and I always say them, yes you can.
I you know, I think most men walked in and
thought they could do my job better than I was
doing my job. That's the way they were, you know, trained,
or that's the that's the confidence. So I think number one,
it's competence and find that place to get your confidence.
(20:02):
And sometimes that has to be Sometimes it can be
a great person. I've had great um mentors and people
that I've worked with, both senior and junior. To me,
you can learn just as much. And sometimes you just
need a group of friends who will be the ones
to say you're crazy and and talk to you uh
and get you to that place. I've had, you know,
(20:23):
wonderful uh friends and networks around and sometimes I pick
up the phone and say, hey, am I nuts here,
and you know they'll they'll make sure you have that confidence.
But I think that's number one. You've got to do
the work, absolutely hard work, but you know everybody does that.
Um that comes to us saying you've got to know
what your stuff is. But you've got to have the
confidence to speak up and know that you're good enough
(20:45):
to do and and to take some risk. I mean,
I think that's the second thing I would say for everybody,
not just women, but I think take I've taken a
bunch of different risks in my career, taking jobs that
people thought I was crazy, that I was maybe going
sideways or backwards, But for me, I was filling in
a skill gap, I was learning, I was interested, and
then you accelerate. So you can't be that afraid of
(21:08):
what people are gonna say. You can explain why you're
doing something, but you know if they don't, if they
don't get it, that's fine as long as you've thought
it through and you have the confidence to do it.
I think that's number one. So the third, third, fourth
law of my of my five laws, uh in my
book Up from Nothing, there's five rules that I put
(21:30):
in there is self esteeming confidence and confidence comes from competence.
So if you're confidence, you will be confident. But self esteem,
what you're now talking about, comes from esteeming yourself. If
I don't like me, I'm not gonna like you. If
I don't feel good about me, I'm not gonna feel
good about me. If I don't love me, how the
heck am I gonna love you? And here's a big one.
(21:52):
If I don't have a purpose in my life, I'll
make your life a living hell. Whatever goes around comes around.
A lot of people don't really like themselves and so
they pick on other people like that British guy picked
on you. Yep. You can't take that stuff personal. You can't,
and you have to know. It's that's why I think.
You know we started here, and you know, how are
(22:13):
you when you're when you're an authentic, nice person? You know,
when somebody else is miserable or mean, that's that's kind
of what that's them about themselves. It's not about you.
Their their life isn't happy or something in there. You
know there that it's just about them and you can't
make it about you. And I just think I feel
sorry for people who are like that. Um, and I
(22:34):
don't I don't want to. I don't want to work
with them. I mean, I like to say. People ask
me how to keep the culture of our bank special,
and you know a lot of times my very quick
answer is just don't hire any jerks, and if we
make any mistakes, get them out. We'll be fine. Yes,
get about's absolutely no toxicity right now. Let's compete externally,
(22:57):
not internally. That only worse than being alone is wishing
that you were. As Dr King would say, I refused
to finance my own oppression. That so so, Kelly, what
I don't know about you, But the the only um
challenges I've had to my leadership are people who actually
(23:18):
I hired, who came from the inside, who in my
case were were Caucasian who thought that that I was
an empty suit and or whatever they thought. I don't know, Uh,
you know, I thought that I was what I was
doing was easy, and they were gonna unseat me. And
this is so you know, they've never it's never succeeded,
but but but it was. It was, you know, entertaining
(23:38):
to watch somebody underestimate to their detriment, right And I'm
sure you've had some of that same experience. And I
what I want people to listen to this to know
is it capitalism is a gladiator sport. Like, don't take
this stuff personal. It's not personal. People want what they
want and if you're in the way, they'll try to
run you over to get it. But you want to
(23:59):
see you should be doing like Kelly has done, step
in it and always it is true. I think, um,
you have to you have to not take things personally,
and it can be very hard, particularly early in your
career when you know, when you're I see a lot
of young people they come in and they're straight A students.
(24:21):
They do really, really well. Then they get to the
get to the office and um or you know, into
their job and they're getting feedback that they're not perfect.
And the way you respond to that feedback is one
of the reasons athletes or someone who's played in a
team is so good at this is they take the
feedback and it's kind of what's the next play? Don't
(24:42):
obsess about and I and I had to. I definitely
had to learn that, UM to make sure that you
you de personalize and that the other thing I tell
people who are starting to ask for feedback, you know
what is what is it that that you need to
do better. What is it you can do better? People
don't like to give it all the time, but if
you make it easy for them to give you feedback,
(25:04):
and I think particularly with women, I would say, you know,
just take the feedback and if you never cry in
front of someone. And a lot of men who work
in positions I have seen over the years are just
they're kind of afraid that they give the tough feedback,
they're going to cry and they don't want to crying
woman in their office. So you know, I just always
say to people, please, please, just like and by the way,
(25:26):
I've had two men cry feedback and on the trading
like a tough situation in my I've had a couple
of men cry not And I said, women, just get
up and walk out of the room and say I
want to I'm gonna come back and talk to you
about that if you feel like you can't, but do
not crye So so this, I mean, I just wrote
this thing down. It chills down my spine when you
said it should be the title of this episode. What's
(25:48):
the next play? I mean, that is so elegant, that
is so everything, Like never ever, ever, ever, ever, give up.
Don't let the perfect be the death of the good.
Brush you brush yourself off. It's hard to hit a
moving target. What's the next play? God, what a beautiful
analogy it is. And this thing about I mean, real talk.
(26:08):
Don't cry if you're a woman in front of a
man going to go into the powder room or whatever,
it gets yourself together. But don't deny your feelings, right,
don't don't bury that. Just understand that you're you're not
in a level playing field and they're expecting you to
do to crack if you're a black woman washing it.
Real talk now, don't roll your eyes, don't don't do
(26:31):
that thing with your head. Don't don't when somebody pops
off and says something that's insensitive, maybe even racist, step
over and not in it. Do not get emotional, because
whatever decision you make emotionally in business is going to
be the wrong decision. Then they say, see, I told you,
I told you they couldn't hand it. I told you
they are emotional. Say she's cursing me out. I told
you this, how she's a hand working in front of clients.
(26:54):
People forget the insult, and they was, and all they
remembers how you reacted, they just start to avoid. I mean,
one of the things I've seen I had a great
group of We had a great group of women. It's
still a jpmorg and still friends of mine. And we
used to always promise that we tell each other. Well.
First of all, we did two things. I think we're great. One,
we always talked each other up when we were in
(27:16):
other situations without them, like, you know, wow, so and
so is amazing, she needs a bigger job. She just
did this, because the guys do that a lot, right,
So we did that. The second thing we always did
is we promised we would tell each other what what
was the negative? What would what would people say? Right?
What are the things that because there's always a story
out there about someone, Oh yes she's great, but this
(27:38):
and you you need people to tell you the truth
in a way that you can take it. And if
you don't hear that truth, then then you just don't,
you know. I saw many times where women weren't getting
the right feedback. That's why that's why I think feedback
is important. And they didn't know why. They thought they
were doing great, but they weren't reaching their goals. And
it's because nobody was being straight with them and they
had real things to work on. Sometimes or you know,
(28:00):
sometimes it can be perception. But as I told you know, yeah,
as I say, perception is reality for people, You've got
to change their perception sometimes to get what you want.
So just you know, don't don't fight it and say
it's not true, figure out how to fix it. I'm
gonna say something that's a bit of a leap of
faith here, and you please feel free to disagree with
me when I say this, but it strikes me as true.
(28:21):
Um for me, I never want the word but used
for me when I leave a room, um uh. And
I can say when when you when when when you've
left a room with me, or I've left a room
with you. I've never turned to anybody and said, you know, Kelly,
is it pretty? Is pretty? Impressive? But or I like her?
But I never use the word both. I don't use
(28:42):
that word Tony Restor, who we both know, who I love.
I don't use that word with you, know. I mean,
there's a whole list of people that we can go
down the line with the You and I both respect
and admire men and women. We don't use that word.
But but but and when you're a person of color
or a woman, you really can't afford in your formative
years to have somebody to say when you're out of
the room. But so, I never want somebody to say, oh,
(29:05):
you know I respect John Bryan, but you know you
know I want that. You never want that. But but
but you need to know if people are saying, as
you can fix it. Like I've had people who've worked
for me before and I've said, look, I would love
to give you this job, but you're too emotional. And
when you're a leader, you got to bring the drama down.
You don't have to bring the drama up. Bringing the
(29:25):
drama down, no drama. And so but that that gives
people something to work on. Right then they say, okay,
So when you're in that situation, take a deep breath
and think about it. You don't always have to make
a decision in the moment. You don't have to react.
I I I like to collaborate. I like to hear
a lot of people's opinions. Sometimes people will will think
that maybe makes me a slower decision maker in certain situations.
(29:48):
But that's okay, because I think I make a better
decision um, And I want to hear the perspectives. And
I'm also then better at getting people behind my decisions
if I understand what the other points of view are
before I make it. If I come into a particularly
my job now and say we're doing this, we're doing that, right,
I mean, nobody's going to give me and I don't
always have the best idea in the room. I want
to hear from other people. And and so you have
(30:09):
to really think about that as you're as you become
a leader, and as you become more senior, how do
you make sure you're still approachable um, so that you
still get the best out of everybody and you get
the best ideas out on the table. So what I
heard you say there was if you just came in
the room and say we're doing X, you shut down creativity,
you shut down innovation and problem solving, and people just
(30:30):
say yes, ma'am and go on with it. And so
you may have made a good decision without a great one.
And so what you want to do is give let
it breathe not and and and you know it's funny,
I had a great um. Adina Friedman runs Nastac. She's
she's factory part. She's terriffic and she had a great
She found the same thing as she came in. As
we were comparing notes what she started doing, and I
(30:52):
hope I don't think she'd mind me sharing this. But
she basically said, you know, when you tell your team something,
but you don't mean you're just having an idea, UM
versus do it? She will say, light bulb, it's a
light bulb moment. That doesn't mean you do it. It
might be a bad idea, but it's it's it's a
movement versus I think it's mandate. I might have the
run or wrong. But when she's you know, something's decided
(31:13):
and she wants people to do it, it's it's a mandate,
like let's do this. But most of what we say
in meetings and things when we create, you know, is
a light bulb. And you do find as a leader
that people sometimes you know you have to stop the
unintended consequences. You say something and then a whole group
starts a project that you didn't even realize happened. Um,
(31:33):
And you need truth tellers around you or people to say,
she didn't mean that, stop UM. And so you or
find a way to deal with it, Like like I
think Adina has really really well. When you're when you're
more junior in your career, you have to figure out
a way to speak up in a way that people
hear you. And I definitely had that experience as a woman.
I don't know if it was as a woman or
just you know, when you say something and then somebody
(31:54):
says something five minutes later and it's exactly what you said,
but everybody all of a sudden thinks it's a great
idea and they didn't hear you. You know. The way
I've always thought about that is I didn't say it.
I didn't say it in a way that was impactful,
or something about how I said it wasn't impactful. So
I just kind of took it back on myself to
figure out how to do that as opposed to, um,
you know, be be negative about it at least that
(32:15):
you're you know, and I mean as a parent, you know.
I also I also love when my ideas or something
I say came back to me from my daughter and
she thought it was her own original thought. That meant
that she really was going to do it or she
believed it, Like that's a success to me. So the
leader you gotta like that, not feel like that was
my idea. And that's not the point. It's that that
person is supporting what your idea was. It doesn't really matter,
(32:38):
um that you get credit for it. Um. You know,
particularly my spot, I think there are moments where it
is important to get credit for it, but but not
where I am today. There's no limits of the good
you can do when you're not concerned about who gets
the credits. That's true. Uh and uh and and so
let's now we I think we I think women watching this,
girl's watching this, any of group to come up. You've
(33:00):
got now a good chunk of content of how to
manage challenges and problems when folks may be underestimating you,
and keep going and step over messing not in it.
I think you've gotten some lessons out. I'll see if
I can summarize. We pivot to the next topic. What
I think I hear Kelly saying, talk without being offensive,
(33:21):
listen without being defensive, and always leave even your adversary
with their dignity, because if you don't spend the rest
of their lives trying to make you miserable, it becomes
personal um. I also hear her saying, don't use twenty
words when two will do and uh and and if
you don't get the credit, get the results. Let's pivot
(33:43):
money access to capital. That's what the bank does. We're
not gonna talking about applications and all that kind of stuff.
I'm not gonna talk about the credit score, which I
obsess about. What's the psychology of banking, the psychology of
dealing with the city, national, or anybody. You know, you're
you're an entrepreneurity here, you're a small business owner right here,
You're what your consumer whoever? You are, your housewife, you're
your couple of building a family. You're trying to now
(34:05):
go out in this world and access capital and build
your brand, your financial brand, your balance sheet. What are
some big picture items that you want people to know
They're important as they begin to approach a bank beyond
the basics. You have a job, you you know, hopefully
you pay your bills so that your credit reflects that.
(34:27):
What are people paying attention to? Let me tease this
up to see if I'm right. You need a relationship
at that bank, if you can and not just be
a number somewhere. That's right, that's right, and that's what
City National is all about. That's one of the reasons
I fell in love with City National. And I'm here because, um,
as you said, we're we're headquarter in l A. We're
(34:48):
about people nine billion in assets, UM, so small relative
to the some of the megabanks, certainly where I came from.
But we're owned by a world Bank Canada, which is
a trillion US balance sheets. So what I think we
can really do is be that small relationship bank, but
still be able to do everything a big bank can
do and um. And that's where the relationship is really important.
(35:11):
So when you're thinking about banking, I do think people
forget that it's just people trying to help one another.
I mean, you know, maybe because I grew up with
the grandfather as a banker, I never really felt that
banks were evil because they're just people. Now, banks have
made a lot of mistakes, and I'm not excusing all
any any of those those things that that banks do, um,
(35:32):
that are wrong. But having been inside a bank and
a couple of banks, now, UM, there are really good
people in banks and um. And so I think humanizing
banking is is really important. And part of that is
wherever you're working with is find somebody you can have
a relationship with who will and take time to understand
your business. City National was built by entrepreneurs who nobody
(35:54):
would bank. Um. They were mostly in real estate and
entertainment and and and nobody. They were immigrants, um, a
lot of them were Jewish, and the banks of the
day wouldn't bank them. So I love it they started
their own bank, which I think is fantastic and and
became what City nationalists today. And we try to keep
that core um to everything we do. We're an entrepreneurial bank.
(36:18):
We understand the building of business, we understand risk, we
understand and so our bankers will strive to do that.
And I think so when you're someone approaching a bank,
whatever bank it is, trying there is there's not every
bank has that ethos but and we're not everywhere, but
I but I do think there's someone inside every bank
that has that ethos and you just have to find
(36:39):
that person who will take the time because you have
to do your homework. And the other thing you have
to understand about banks is we are highly regulated so
many times, uh, you know, and and there's a lot
of processes in banks. So many times when we look
like we're doing something stupid, we're doing it because of
(36:59):
some thing that's driving that. Many times it's it's regulations.
Sometimes it's just that we're bureaucratic and we're stupid. Don't
get me wrong. I'm always trying to find those places
where we're stupid and fix it. And so I want
to hear that from our clients, from our colleagues. But
but I think you have to understand that the bank
also has certain rules it has to follow. So if
you find somebody to have a relationship who will help
(37:21):
you explain that, and then it's about telling your story
in the right way. You're building a great business, You're
building a brand. Trust is critical. So if you if
you prove that you're coming through, you know you want to,
you want to come through on your promises. And I
think all of that builds access to capital. You know. Obviously,
I think we have issues around access to capital in
(37:42):
in many pockets, and the banks aren't always a solution
for that because of um some of the restrictions. We
can't give equity. There's certain things that you need, but
there but we can be connectors to other you know,
we can be connectors into that ecosystem of who who
should you talk about this? If we can't do it,
and then what can we do to help you as
(38:03):
you as you're building? Yep, So full disclosure and I'm
gonna give my own testimony here. Um. So, I had
a loan with City National in the commercial side of
the bank through my not my nonprofit, through my for
profit Promise Holmes company. Uh. I got that loan because, yes,
it was worthy. But I was introduced by a big client.
(38:26):
Who get me? Are able to get attention from one
of your bankers? Aaron? Who? Who? Who sized me up? Now?
Yeah he was being you know, Tony Restor introduced me.
But Aaron's job was to size me up? Is this
guy really not? And uh? And after that we we
did our initial transaction. When there was an issue, I
(38:46):
didn't want Tony to call. I wanted to call and
I wanted to call Aaron before he called me. I
wanted to call whoever was assigned to that account and
let them know, Hey, heads up, here's whatever it is,
you know, blah blah blah, here's was going to get
telling this story that that actually built trust, It built
confidently because they're like, Okay, I'm not gonna be surprised
by this guy. If there's If there's bad news, he's
(39:08):
gonna tell me first. Um and and and whenever he's
telling me, I can count on it and believe that
it's true. And and I never once called you, by
the way, on anything until I didn't call Kelly until
I paid the loan office. And I'm proud to say
it was a twenty in our alone by a black man. Hello. Um,
But I didn't call you to until I was done
because I I didn't want to ever burden the friendship.
(39:29):
Uh and and and so I think that we also
if your personal color watching this, you want to believe
in the James Brown version of affirmative action, open the door.
I'll get it myself. You want to earn your respect,
um and uh in in the two thousand, are alone
may turn into a you know two are alone as
(39:50):
you as you build your your your your bona fidees
with with the banker, but build your relationship with a
banker and not just with an app on the phone.
Well said, and you built a great business and we're
excited to be part of it. Thank you. Let's let's
now pivot in the times we got left. I know
you guys are really big on diversity and inclusion, um
(40:11):
and an opportunity, and I know their job is even
available there at the bank. Why don't you share with
the audience. Uh, well, it's your vision. What are you doing,
why are you doing it, why is it important? And
what comes next? Yeah, So I just very simply believe
that if I have a diverse team around me, I'm
going to build a better business and make better decisions.
(40:33):
It's it's It's as simple as that. And so you
know that has always been a priority for me in
every business I run. I've increased the diversity significantly. And
it's diversity in the typical way we talk about diversity,
whether it's sex or race, but it's but it's also
diversity of thought, which can be a little harder, right,
you know, finding those introverts. I tend to be attracted extroverts.
(40:57):
You talk a lot and can express themselves really well.
But sometimes you need some introverts around the table. Sometimes
you need some you can you know. I also tend
to be an optimist, so I need a cynic to
give me, you know, the other side. So you've got
to think about that as you as you build your team,
and and I believe it's better for our clients, better
for our business better, it's a more fun place to work. UM.
And so I've been really you have to sort of
(41:20):
think about every level. Then, So at City National we're
more than women. UM, we've got really strong we're more
than we're more than women. But I want to we
were not at the most senior levels. So of my
senior exacts, now we're we're over sixty of my executive community,
(41:43):
the top twenty people are diverse, about forty little over
women and we're continuing to work on that. Sevent My
highers have been diverse. And I didn't compromise on quality,
not even one little bit. I found fabulous people. Our
board is now we we added to women in the
last year, so five out our twelve directors UM are
(42:05):
female and we will certainly be get UM fairly soon.
So it you have to do bottoms up, but you
also have to start tops down so people see that
signal of we mean it, and and again they can
see it. And then I find as you get a
diverse leadership team, the heavy lifting is kind of done
because then it kind of it goes across the organization
(42:26):
and they're all building diverse teams as well. So, um,
you have to I think you have to measure it,
and I think you have to look at we we
look at the data, and we are looking at where
are we, for example, losing women or people of color,
what at what point and why? And if somebody's leaving,
do those exit interviews to understand why they're why they're going.
(42:47):
I was just reading an interesting study by Mackenzie that
said that for women, they're finding that that first promotion
might be the tougher spot. You know, what is it
that holds them back from that first emotion. Maybe that's
you know, the taking feedback some of the things we
talked about. And so now that's something where I asked
my team to say, Okay, let's go look at all
of our you know, entry level in each part and
(43:10):
how how are we promoting and let's make sure we've
got an eye or focus on that m to see
if it's true. I Mean, one of the things I'm
really proud about is, you know, I think the pandemic
was incredibly hard for women, and women took a real
um hit in the in the in the workforce. However,
it's city national. We increased our percentage of women through
the pandemic, did not decrease, and I'm really proud of that.
(43:33):
That doesn't mean I don't feel terrible about the broader um.
You know, industry or business we'd like to do and
you know, we've done things like double maternity leave, you know,
make sure we've got colleague resource groups hearing what the
issues are and making sure we're helping, whether it's healthcare, etcetera.
But I I just believe it's a it's a stronger
business if you do that, and so therefore, and everybody
(43:55):
I hire believes the same. So once you get enough
people around you that believe the same thing, it's it's pretty.
It's a it's a it's a beautiful thing. It is
a beautiful thing. And it reminds me when you mentioned
the percentages of the country Rwanda, where the majority of
those in government are women. Um in a country that
(44:18):
dealt with genocide and uh um, you know, it is
now one of the most peaceful countries in all of Africa. Rwanda,
Kali is very peaceful now and there are no where there,
no hutu, no tutsis it's just Rwanda's um. And so
they found that they're better together. I think what you're
saying is you're finding this institution. When you bring all
(44:39):
these pieces together, you're better together. Two plus two equals six.
My white brothers and sisters, my white male brothers and
my brothers. I'm sorry my male brothers should not be
also um afraid of this conversation. What we're all, what
we're saying is expand the table and at a seat right.
(45:00):
That's right. And you know I I say that. I
also say to them, but most every every white male
that's around my table truly is a believer in this.
And and I also make sure, like I really do
think diversity of thought, like I also do tell them
how they're diverse sitting at the table in a different way, right,
so that they don't feel targeted, you know, somehow, because
(45:23):
that's not the point. The point is not to take
away opportunity from someone. The point is to add opportunity
to for a lot of people. And as I and
as I've said, when we lean in on certain groups,
it's because of where I go back to, you need
the confidence. Sometimes a certain group needs a little bit
more attention because they don't have the confidence or the
help around them that others do. And so it's not
(45:44):
that you're trying to not pay attention on one, you're
just trying to focus in. Is I believe if you
if you try to do everything, you'll do nothing. So
you've got to focus in and work your way through.
And if and if we do this right and if
you do it right, GDP will expand gross domestic products,
the economy will expand, opportunity will deepen, which means that
(46:06):
everybody wins. When you include more people and when and
if city national successful this, you can go after more
buckets of business. If you've got Latinos on tap, you
can go after that market and all of Latin America.
If you've got African Americans on tap and Africans on tap,
you can go after those markets, and and women on tap.
You can actually approach a whole segment of the population
(46:27):
and making financial decisions in households and UH and who
feel more comfortable that there everybody wins. It's better for clients.
We need to look like our clients and that you know,
those are all huge pockets of of of the economy
for us and and that's why we need to do it.
You've got a bank to run. This has been a
(46:48):
fantastic engagement. You've gotta bank to run. I don't want
your office to run in and say it's been a
rio has been nisative and real nice. So what do
you want to leave? What's the drop the mic moment
for this audience? What do you want to leave? Those
were builders out here, Kelly, what do you have to
tell them as we as we exit? Well, first of all,
it's been an absolute pleasure to be with you, John,
always fun to talk to you, and for everybody listening.
First of all, thank you for listening, and to don't
(47:11):
give up. That's it, that's it, and maybe ask for help.
Maybe that will be my second one. Don't give up
and ask for help? And what's the next play? When
when the world? When the when the world's throwing crap
at you and you're being beaten down and you're you're
you're wondering whether you can make it another day, just
(47:31):
brush yourself off and ask yourself what's the next place? Yeah?
I like that. This is John O'Brien and this is
the master class on building a good life with Kelly coffee.
The CEO of City National Pay is a star, one
of the strongest leaders in banking and business period yet
(47:52):
alone one of the top females in a seat of
CEO in the world. Unbelievable she's created. But really the
master class lesson here that dropped the mic moment about
midway through the interview. If you didn't catch you go
back and listen it again when she said, it's really
about what's the next play. Why she loves professional sports
analogy so much is that when you get knocked down
(48:14):
in the professional sports, the game is going on. It's
not one individual that's sitting around whining about how unfair
life is. It's a team that's depending upon each other
and you're going, you're moving, and the question is what's
the next play? You better together. It's hard to hit
the moving target. Keep it moving, over the round it,
through it. You're gonna get to it. Never ever, ever
give up. You always think that the one that you're
dealing with that moment is the best one or whatever. No,
(48:36):
it's just the one you're dealing with. Ever, let the
perfect become the death of the good. Always just do
what you can in that moment, and when your team
screw up, tell them rather you ask for forgiveness and permission.
You want to lean into this world and do the
best you can with what you have as long as
it's done with integrity. In this moment, and live your
best life from this moment and every day. Bring the
best version of you to your job. Smile even when
(48:58):
you're being kicked in the teeth, Step over a mess
and not in it, and even when you're dealing with
an unlevel situation. Talk without being offensive, listen without being defensive,
and always leave even your adversary with their dignity was
John O'Brien ye
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