October 13, 2025 • 18 mins
In this bonus episode, more time with Matthew Livingston, the Navajo Gaffer, as we nerd out on Native film and TV from the past to the present and into the future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is burn Sage Burn Bridges. I'm your host, Nicole
Garcia for Indigenous People's Day. I wanted to share more
of my conversation with Matthew Livingston, who's in the film industry.
Growing up, there weren't many Native films or shows, but
the few we had made a big impact. Now with
(00:22):
new shows like Reservation Dogs and other Native content being created,
it's important that we continue to support them. Just to
let you know, this episode has some cursing.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I think Dance Me Outside was probably the one that
I really enjoyed as a young adult, or I was
just like, oh wow, the Indigenous stories. Yeah, contemporary Indigenous stories.
We're gonna have to be as the stereotype, you know.
I mean, we can just be ourselves in the contemporary
world and it can be funny. You never notice it's
like there's so much conspiracy with women.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Adam Beach was he in that?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, Adam Beach was in that. I don't know if
that was his first film, but yeah, Adam Beach was
in that.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Was that like Canada?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah it was a Canadian film. Yeah. I think it
was filmed on the reservation there. I know it's cree.
It's a pre tribal film. But I recently watched it
and then I found out, like the whole crew and cast,
I guess the casting and director, they're all locals. So
you think that's how Adam Beach got discovered. And he
(01:23):
was just like a local and they filmed there in
the reservation.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And then he's in the lead and smoke signals.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Which oh yeah for him, Yeah, for sure, he's he's
been around where he was a DC character, you know
what I mean, Suicide Squad, So yeah, he's he's he's
still going.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Right for even for Adam Beach. Like in our world,
Adam Beach is like, you know, equivalent to Leonardo DiCaprio,
but like in the other world, like Adam Beach could
barely get like a character that gets killed off at
d film. Yeah, nobody remembers.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, I remember so many people were disappointed. I kind
of knew the backstory of the suicides Got Squad characters,
and I was like, I'm pretty sure he's gonna die.
But it's okay. I mean, he's he's on there. You know,
he made it. He was DC character with Batman, Superman, like.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
He made it. I just want more for him, though,
He's so such a big deal for us because that's
like everybody's watched Adam Beach. Bradma's no Adam Beach, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, I remember when Also we were talking about,
you know, different films it inspired, you know, like obviously
we're talking about spokes signals and but I remember there
was a TV show on Sundance TV. Remember Sundance. I
think it's gone now, but there was a show called
The Red Road and they had Jason Momoa and then
Kiawa Gordon you playing chillboys and Indians. Do you pretend
(02:44):
to be the Indians? Huh? This is what the old
people around here said, make themselves so important. And then
that was my first introduction to Zoon mclarnin. Yeah, he
was like a little side character. I think it was
like Jason Momoa's brother. But I remember watching it was
like every week it was on the Sundance channel. And
it's funny because season two they introduced West Duty. He's
(03:07):
like a bad guy. He's a villain, isn't He's antagonists
and like there's a cliffhanger at the end, and then
the show gets canceled and I was like, oh man,
but this was back in like twenty fifteen something like that.
And I remember that year going to Gathering Nations, and
I remember some guy was there and I was like,
this guy looks so familiar. His facial features feel like
(03:29):
I know this guy, and totally blew him off. Walked
around like the palow ended up getting food, and then
I was thinking, I was like, oh, man, that's Zoon mclarden.
And then at that time, he wasn't you know, he'd
never done Fargo or you know, I mean all these shows,
Reservation Dogs, like, he was just a normal person walking around.
But I knew him. And I told my buddy. He's like, oh,
(03:49):
there's this show like called The Red Road. He's in there.
And he's like, he didn't carry I mean, I'm the
only film there, you know. Yeah, the cinephile. He didn't
care at all. But I was like, Oh, I'm gonna
go talk to him, may get a picture with him,
you know. And then I looked for him for like
thirty minutes an hour, and I didn't see him. He
was gone by then. But yeah, he's blown up. Now
he's the he's the lead in Dark Winds and The
(04:11):
Reservation Dogs, and yeah, but I really wish i'd met
him and told him about how I really enjoyed The
Red Road, and I was gonna ask him, like, hey,
it was a cliffhanger, like what was gonna happen? Yeah,
I was looking forward to season three and then they
canceled it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
When talking about Native filmmaking, we have to mention Robert Redford.
He helped open doors for indigenous filmmakers through Sundance, creating
space for our stories, and he will be missed. I'm
sure there's a story of like who. I'm sure it's
like Robert Redford probably funded that. Like I'm curious how
that happened, because I know Robert Redford has always been
trying to help us come up.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh yeah, Robert Redford. Robert Redford. And I think George R.
Martin was like a producer for Dark Winds that worked
on Dark Winds as I was day playing, so I
was in like a main crew. But I work with
rigging and I work with them set lighting. But I've
seen Chris Syre on set. I always wanted to talk
to him, but I just didn't. You just never know,
(05:08):
like I could talk to him and it could be
a good experience. He could like it, or I could
talk to him and get fired. No.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, I think you're doing good just keeping the etiquette
and letting people be professional or whatever. But yeah, Dark Ones.
I don't know what seasons it's in, but it seems
to be like I read some article like it's the
viewership is going up AMC.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Oh, yeah, they're on season four or they're filming season
four now. And I think season three just came out,
and I think they put the other two seasons on Netflix.
But there's a lot of locals on that. I know.
There's a Ryan be Gay. I think he's a local actor.
And Natalie Bnalli. I met her on set on a
short film. She's an actress on that, and she did
some stuff in NBC. But and then those are local
(05:50):
gallop people, yeah, local to this area that are in big,
big movies or big you know TV shows for AMC.
And it's on AMC too, Dark Ones. Everybody forgets it's
breaking bad, you know what I mean? Better call Saul
Like Dark Ones is on a big show, yeah, and
a big distribution network.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Right, and it's it's a period piece that's even more difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Oh yeah, nineteen seventies right.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, So It is kind of a major deal that
it's on AMC, because I guess AMC would be considered cable.
I don't know how that works anymore. A Reservation Dog
is probably like the biggest come up for us as
far as like television.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The Reservation Dogs. I really enjoyed it and really enjoyed
season one. I like how they were exploring supernatural aspects
of it that. Yeah, and then and then it went
a weird turn. It turned into like a kind of
like an adventure, you know, film kind of like I
don't want to say goonies, but went into very dramatic,
which was fine. I mean, but I really like first
(06:44):
season where they're exploring things. And then there's an avid
director on that too. I think black Horse Low I
really enjoy his riding. He did that funny episode where
they're like, I think it was like an acid trip episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I love the guy that he's like a white that
claims he's Navajo and it's like always talking.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He puts in the word sh key.
And then it's funny because it's a different tribe like Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, it's so funny because it like we're Navajo, but
like other tribes because we're so big, we're usually the
biggest target and we don't make it hard, yeah, to
make fun.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Of our Yeah. And then it's pretty cool to explore
different you know, I mean different I guess inflections, modalities,
cultural like you know, the difference in cultures right for
the tribes were because I don't know if we can
cuss on this, but remember the always they always use
the word shit ass. Yeah, And I was like, I
never heard that before. I'm the n Nava. I've never
(07:38):
heard shit asshy Oklahoma thing. Yeah, it's probably like the
like that tribal and I mean that's their inside joke.
And some people had asked me that you guys say
shit ass. I was like, I never I think it's
an Oklahoma thing. But it's pretty funny. Yeah, and they
they say different things.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But it's accurate too, because like Native people always find
each other no matter what tribe they are, and like
assemble and just like it together and usually relate to
each other, have the same humor and the same experiences.
It was very accurate. But guy, and.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
It's funny because those DNA episodes where you know the
guy is Navo and and then John mclarnin and his
characters like what are you speaking? Or are you speaking?
He sounds like cling on. That was funny.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Oh, Yats almost played cling on a good one.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Ship. I thought she was clearing your throat reverse humor.
I love it. Our people have always used laughter as
a way to get through the hard times. But I
think those episodes are the Navo director The Black Horse
Low he wrote and directed those. Yeah, I think I'm local.
She's local, The Gallup too, Sydney, Sidney Freely and I
(08:50):
think she wrote and directed some episodes too for a Reservation.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Dog, so and.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, she did res and she co wrote that with
Stirling Harjo.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, doing really well. All this stuff's been really good,
and it's nice to see us represented because it's very
it's been a long time and there's very little examples
that you're saying the Red Road. For me, it was HBO.
Did you ever watch I think it was Grand Avenue.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh yeah, I love Yeah, that was a really good show.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, executive producers Robert Redford and Paul Aaron. Grand Avenue
premiere Sunday, June thirtieth on HBO.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
There were some good performances in there. That one was
really cool because it was a different perspective of like
urban Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It's just like you know, being assimilated and what happens
in the future, because I don't think anybody ever thought
about that. I think they thought, oh, let's send them
to the cities to they'll never come back, and it's
like the structure of trying to make us disappear, obviously,
but like it's funny to see how that came about,
and a lot of people returned. But I thought Grand
Avenue was very interesting because, yeah, it just had that
(09:52):
whole perspective of urban native people that were pushed in
the city's assimilation and then what became of them.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah. And then when Grand Avenue that was on a
big network too, that was HBO. Yeah, and the HBO,
you know, the had sopranos, and I remember they had
Oz this prison Chow Call Oz, and I remember Grand
Avenue was like on that little list of movies. And
I remember as a kid watching that like, oh, wow,
you know there's Native people on here and they had
the street gangs and what they went through.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Were they in la I think, so, I think, so, yeah,
we need to rewatch that again. There's some power in
this form of storytelling, and I think Native people are
just storytellers in general. That's how we passed on traditions
and stuff, like our language wasn't written, so it was
just word of mouth or just doing you know, telling
stories is how things have been passed down. So I
feel like that's why so many of us are attracted
(10:40):
to film and very into it. And even if you're
not in the industry, you probably have your favorite things
you watch.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And oh yeah, and then like you know, we talk
about Grand Avenue. I guess dance me outside. I guess
they had a spin off TV show and they brought
back some of the cast and crew, and I guess
it was broadcasting in Canada. And I need to find
that they have a DVD or something. I would like
to watch that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
People here love movies, especially since part of the original
Superman was shot nearby. The community even renamed the canyon
used in the film is.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
What my dad's side family. They're from a church, church
truck area. I think they called so many different names
out there. They called Superman Canyon, they called Springstead.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And why did they call it Superman Canyon?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Because I get they filmed Superman there. Yeah, Actually, my
older brother, my gol cousin brother, my sister, they were
there when they're filming Superman. They said the helicopter was
pulling you know, oh yeah, pulling Christopher Reeve on a
you know what I mean. Yeah, in the seventies. Yeah,
my I think my sister said she was like six
years old something like that, my older sister, but she
(11:46):
told me they saw like behind the scenes of Superman
Canyon and pretty fun. I guess they released like some
behind the scenes footage. There's extra footage of like she's
interviewing a Navao guy, did you Yeah, there's extra scenes
where she's interviewing a Navajo guy and she's talking to
(12:06):
her Margot Kidder, the actress, and then you know, when
the little earthquake happens. Like I guess there's extra scenes
of a Navo guy talking with her. And I was like, Oh,
I didn't see that in the movie.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
That's cool, it got edited out or something. This area
is so small that our version of Blockbuster was first. Yeah,
I mean, I think we eventually got a Blockbuster, but
front Row Seat like just never died. I think it might.
I don't know. I think it's sounds last like or
did they finally get.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I don't know. I don't They're not here in galp anymore, right, I.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Know they were like literally here maybe a year ago.
So I'm like they're still.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Kicking because they were still going.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
We're basically reservation, so people don't have streaming services. The
internet is always lacking, so people do still watch like
DVDs or even vhs.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I'm sure growing up here near the reservation, I mean this,
you know, the Gallop area. Like I had to rent everything.
That's how I watched. I had to. I think I
bought Stranger Things season one the mall I'm in. I
watched Stranger Things, not on Netflix. I watched it on DVD.
I'd go to for here locally. I'd always rent the
(13:15):
movies here, a TV show, movies. I remember renting Vikings,
the TV show. You know, they had that character Ragnar Ragnar.
He was played by Travis Fimmel, and I remember I
have a poster and my my mom's old home here
near Gallup, and I remember thinking like, oh man, I
would love to work on a show like this. And
fast forward Travis fimmele from Vikings. He was a character
(13:38):
on Rust and I got to hang out with him.
We shared a Coca Cola, and I never told him like, hey,
I watched I've rented your your TV show at front
row seat, and now I'm working with you living my dream.
But that's kind of a cool little anecdote I wanted
to throw in.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
It's just nice to see somebody who's from here, local,
who you know, cares about native film. It was inspired
by native film and is now in that industry.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, the film industry is a lot of things to explore.
What I love about filmmaking ism, it's a it's a
visual art, right, It's a medium, and it encompasses so
many things. So I mean, you got writers, you know,
people who are so talented that they could write novels.
It's got people who write scripts. You got people who
do the you know the thespianism, you know performance, you
(14:22):
know theater. Yeah, you got people who's shaping life. Photography.
You forget, like, you know, everything's all digital. Now you know,
there's new generational digital. I mean, get a black Magic camera,
but we forget it's it's moving pictures. It's photography. I
mean it's it's twenty four frames per second, and so
it's you know you're shaping light for that painting with light,
(14:42):
you have scenic painters, construction. There's so many like there's
it's a medium that uses collaboration as so many artists
are involved. People forget that. The music composers. Yeah, yeah,
I was researching like Hans Zimmer All these people do
the music for you know what I mean, Christopher Nolan movies.
These people they have like master's degrees and like orchestra symphony.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, it's like a big industry and a lot of
money goes into it, but it's very competitive. Only I mean,
if you think about all the movies we watch, we're
all watching the same stuff, you know, made by the
same people, with the same producers and the same studios
funding it. And so it's and you know, when they
fund these big pictures, you read like something really like
Corny got funded for whatever, and you're like, dang, like
(15:27):
there's all these projects that people probably have that they
could make, but we'll never see it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, but you know that's reality of filmmaking. It's just like,
because I really had a lot of respect for a
lot of filmmakers, directors, actors, and then you see the
antics and you see this you know what I mean,
on set and you're like, oh, wow, this is real
Hollywood here, and it's the ugly thing. The CEO, Yeah
it is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's it is kind of ugly, and when you see
all the like politics behind it, it's it's just like
any other industry where people probably get the jobs maybe
because they're related or because you know, there's all these
like clicks and clubs and whatever. And some people think,
like you were saying, you can only be a director
or whatever, but like you're doing something pretty cool and
(16:09):
it's still creative and it's still in the industry, but
it's just a little different. I just think it's a
really good insight to like, Okay, I never thought about that.
I didn't real knew that was a job, and like
that's how it works, and I'm glad you shared that
with us.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, no problem. And I normally don't go
on social media, but I feel like that's a good
tool for up and coming filmmakers. I meant because technology
has improved so quickly, Like people were using TikTok I mean,
which which is fine. I've never I've never I've never
downloaded the app, but I've seen completely addicted yeah, I've
(16:41):
seen people reposted and they're doing skits, you know what
I mean, and stuff, and I think it's great. I
think we're living in a cool time where people are
I don't like the term content creator. I don't know
why people use that term, but I think like visual
art and filmmaker, I really like those terms. But yeah,
I really encourage people if you have a phone, you know,
I mean, and we're like your stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Native audience, I feel like they're hungry for Native content,
Like I'm on Native TikTok because it's hilarious, because it's
stuff that, like, you know, it's poking fun at like
all these struggles but like in a lightheard way, or
maybe it's not, and you know, you could you can
relate to like these kids on the reds and you're like,
this is cool. So I feel like that's what other
Native people want. So I'm glad there is some little
(17:23):
outlet to show that. And I'm just like it's fun.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I've watched all the skits and then the humor
and then I know it's localized humor. Yeah, I mean
it's it's inside jokes.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, it's probably like the shit ass that you're talking
about like whatever that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, I really enjoy it, and I want to tell
people keep doing that, like, keep creating your own content.
You don't need big producers for all this stuff. And
if you have good writing and good content, and then
someone's going to reach out and give you an opportunity,
you know what I mean. Maybe Chris Iyer will see
one of your TikTok's or ZN mclarnen and then offer like, hey,
(17:55):
would you like to turn this into a movie or
TV show?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah? Yeah, and even not. I mean like people totally
living off of TikTok.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I need to download it. I need My sister keeps
telling me to do it, is like, yeah, I should.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
If you want to be productive, maybe no more distractions,
but yeah. This bonus episode of burn Sage, Burn Bridges
was written and produced by myself, Nicole Garcia, along with
Max Williams and Dylan Fagan. Thank you for listening.
This is burn Sage Burn Bridges. I'm your host, Nicole
Garcia for Indigenous People's Day. I wanted to share more
of my conversation with Matthew Livingston, who's in the film industry.
Growing up, there weren't many Native films or shows, but
the few we had made a big impact. Now with
(00:22):
new shows like Reservation Dogs and other Native content being created,
it's important that we continue to support them. Just to
let you know, this episode has some cursing.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I think Dance Me Outside was probably the one that
I really enjoyed as a young adult, or I was
just like, oh wow, the Indigenous stories. Yeah, contemporary Indigenous stories.
We're gonna have to be as the stereotype, you know.
I mean, we can just be ourselves in the contemporary
world and it can be funny. You never notice it's
like there's so much conspiracy with women.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Adam Beach was he in that?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, Adam Beach was in that. I don't know if
that was his first film, but yeah, Adam Beach was
in that.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Was that like Canada?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah it was a Canadian film. Yeah. I think it
was filmed on the reservation there. I know it's cree.
It's a pre tribal film. But I recently watched it
and then I found out, like the whole crew and cast,
I guess the casting and director, they're all locals. So
you think that's how Adam Beach got discovered. And he
(01:23):
was just like a local and they filmed there in
the reservation.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And then he's in the lead and smoke signals.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Which oh yeah for him, Yeah, for sure, he's he's
been around where he was a DC character, you know
what I mean, Suicide Squad, So yeah, he's he's he's
still going.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Right for even for Adam Beach. Like in our world,
Adam Beach is like, you know, equivalent to Leonardo DiCaprio,
but like in the other world, like Adam Beach could
barely get like a character that gets killed off at
d film. Yeah, nobody remembers.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, I remember so many people were disappointed. I kind
of knew the backstory of the suicides Got Squad characters,
and I was like, I'm pretty sure he's gonna die.
But it's okay. I mean, he's he's on there. You know,
he made it. He was DC character with Batman, Superman, like.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
He made it. I just want more for him, though,
He's so such a big deal for us because that's
like everybody's watched Adam Beach. Bradma's no Adam Beach, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, I remember when Also we were talking about,
you know, different films it inspired, you know, like obviously
we're talking about spokes signals and but I remember there
was a TV show on Sundance TV. Remember Sundance. I
think it's gone now, but there was a show called
The Red Road and they had Jason Momoa and then
Kiawa Gordon you playing chillboys and Indians. Do you pretend
(02:44):
to be the Indians? Huh? This is what the old
people around here said, make themselves so important. And then
that was my first introduction to Zoon mclarnin. Yeah, he
was like a little side character. I think it was
like Jason Momoa's brother. But I remember watching it was
like every week it was on the Sundance channel. And
it's funny because season two they introduced West Duty. He's
(03:07):
like a bad guy. He's a villain, isn't He's antagonists
and like there's a cliffhanger at the end, and then
the show gets canceled and I was like, oh man,
but this was back in like twenty fifteen something like that.
And I remember that year going to Gathering Nations, and
I remember some guy was there and I was like,
this guy looks so familiar. His facial features feel like
(03:29):
I know this guy, and totally blew him off. Walked
around like the palow ended up getting food, and then
I was thinking, I was like, oh, man, that's Zoon mclarden.
And then at that time, he wasn't you know, he'd
never done Fargo or you know, I mean all these shows,
Reservation Dogs, like, he was just a normal person walking around.
But I knew him. And I told my buddy. He's like, oh,
(03:49):
there's this show like called The Red Road. He's in there.
And he's like, he didn't carry I mean, I'm the
only film there, you know. Yeah, the cinephile. He didn't
care at all. But I was like, Oh, I'm gonna
go talk to him, may get a picture with him,
you know. And then I looked for him for like
thirty minutes an hour, and I didn't see him. He
was gone by then. But yeah, he's blown up. Now
he's the he's the lead in Dark Winds and The
(04:11):
Reservation Dogs, and yeah, but I really wish i'd met
him and told him about how I really enjoyed The
Red Road, and I was gonna ask him, like, hey,
it was a cliffhanger, like what was gonna happen? Yeah,
I was looking forward to season three and then they
canceled it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
When talking about Native filmmaking, we have to mention Robert Redford.
He helped open doors for indigenous filmmakers through Sundance, creating
space for our stories, and he will be missed. I'm
sure there's a story of like who. I'm sure it's
like Robert Redford probably funded that. Like I'm curious how
that happened, because I know Robert Redford has always been
trying to help us come up.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh yeah, Robert Redford. Robert Redford. And I think George R.
Martin was like a producer for Dark Winds that worked
on Dark Winds as I was day playing, so I
was in like a main crew. But I work with
rigging and I work with them set lighting. But I've
seen Chris Syre on set. I always wanted to talk
to him, but I just didn't. You just never know,
(05:08):
like I could talk to him and it could be
a good experience. He could like it, or I could
talk to him and get fired. No.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, I think you're doing good just keeping the etiquette
and letting people be professional or whatever. But yeah, Dark Ones.
I don't know what seasons it's in, but it seems
to be like I read some article like it's the
viewership is going up AMC.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Oh, yeah, they're on season four or they're filming season
four now. And I think season three just came out,
and I think they put the other two seasons on Netflix.
But there's a lot of locals on that. I know.
There's a Ryan be Gay. I think he's a local actor.
And Natalie Bnalli. I met her on set on a
short film. She's an actress on that, and she did
some stuff in NBC. But and then those are local
(05:50):
gallop people, yeah, local to this area that are in big,
big movies or big you know TV shows for AMC.
And it's on AMC too, Dark Ones. Everybody forgets it's
breaking bad, you know what I mean? Better call Saul
Like Dark Ones is on a big show, yeah, and
a big distribution network.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Right, and it's it's a period piece that's even more difficult.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Oh yeah, nineteen seventies right.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, So It is kind of a major deal that
it's on AMC, because I guess AMC would be considered cable.
I don't know how that works anymore. A Reservation Dog
is probably like the biggest come up for us as
far as like television.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The Reservation Dogs. I really enjoyed it and really enjoyed
season one. I like how they were exploring supernatural aspects
of it that. Yeah, and then and then it went
a weird turn. It turned into like a kind of
like an adventure, you know, film kind of like I
don't want to say goonies, but went into very dramatic,
which was fine. I mean, but I really like first
(06:44):
season where they're exploring things. And then there's an avid
director on that too. I think black Horse Low I
really enjoy his riding. He did that funny episode where
they're like, I think it was like an acid trip episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
I love the guy that he's like a white that
claims he's Navajo and it's like always talking.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He puts in the word sh key.
And then it's funny because it's a different tribe like Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, it's so funny because it like we're Navajo, but
like other tribes because we're so big, we're usually the
biggest target and we don't make it hard, yeah, to
make fun.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Of our Yeah. And then it's pretty cool to explore
different you know, I mean different I guess inflections, modalities,
cultural like you know, the difference in cultures right for
the tribes were because I don't know if we can
cuss on this, but remember the always they always use
the word shit ass. Yeah, And I was like, I
never heard that before. I'm the n Nava. I've never
(07:38):
heard shit asshy Oklahoma thing. Yeah, it's probably like the
like that tribal and I mean that's their inside joke.
And some people had asked me that you guys say
shit ass. I was like, I never I think it's
an Oklahoma thing. But it's pretty funny. Yeah, and they
they say different things.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But it's accurate too, because like Native people always find
each other no matter what tribe they are, and like
assemble and just like it together and usually relate to
each other, have the same humor and the same experiences.
It was very accurate. But guy, and.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
It's funny because those DNA episodes where you know the
guy is Navo and and then John mclarnin and his
characters like what are you speaking? Or are you speaking?
He sounds like cling on. That was funny.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Oh, Yats almost played cling on a good one.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Ship. I thought she was clearing your throat reverse humor.
I love it. Our people have always used laughter as
a way to get through the hard times. But I
think those episodes are the Navo director The Black Horse
Low he wrote and directed those. Yeah, I think I'm local.
She's local, The Gallup too, Sydney, Sidney Freely and I
(08:50):
think she wrote and directed some episodes too for a Reservation.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Dog, so and.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, she did res and she co wrote that with
Stirling Harjo.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, doing really well. All this stuff's been really good,
and it's nice to see us represented because it's very
it's been a long time and there's very little examples
that you're saying the Red Road. For me, it was HBO.
Did you ever watch I think it was Grand Avenue.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh yeah, I love Yeah, that was a really good show.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, executive producers Robert Redford and Paul Aaron. Grand Avenue
premiere Sunday, June thirtieth on HBO.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
There were some good performances in there. That one was
really cool because it was a different perspective of like
urban Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It's just like you know, being assimilated and what happens
in the future, because I don't think anybody ever thought
about that. I think they thought, oh, let's send them
to the cities to they'll never come back, and it's
like the structure of trying to make us disappear, obviously,
but like it's funny to see how that came about,
and a lot of people returned. But I thought Grand
Avenue was very interesting because, yeah, it just had that
(09:52):
whole perspective of urban native people that were pushed in
the city's assimilation and then what became of them.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah. And then when Grand Avenue that was on a
big network too, that was HBO. Yeah, and the HBO,
you know, the had sopranos, and I remember they had
Oz this prison Chow Call Oz, and I remember Grand
Avenue was like on that little list of movies. And
I remember as a kid watching that like, oh, wow,
you know there's Native people on here and they had
the street gangs and what they went through.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Were they in la I think, so, I think, so, yeah,
we need to rewatch that again. There's some power in
this form of storytelling, and I think Native people are
just storytellers in general. That's how we passed on traditions
and stuff, like our language wasn't written, so it was
just word of mouth or just doing you know, telling
stories is how things have been passed down. So I
feel like that's why so many of us are attracted
(10:40):
to film and very into it. And even if you're
not in the industry, you probably have your favorite things
you watch.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And oh yeah, and then like you know, we talk
about Grand Avenue. I guess dance me outside. I guess
they had a spin off TV show and they brought
back some of the cast and crew, and I guess
it was broadcasting in Canada. And I need to find
that they have a DVD or something. I would like
to watch that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
People here love movies, especially since part of the original
Superman was shot nearby. The community even renamed the canyon
used in the film is.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
What my dad's side family. They're from a church, church
truck area. I think they called so many different names
out there. They called Superman Canyon, they called Springstead.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
And why did they call it Superman Canyon?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Because I get they filmed Superman there. Yeah, Actually, my
older brother, my gol cousin brother, my sister, they were
there when they're filming Superman. They said the helicopter was
pulling you know, oh yeah, pulling Christopher Reeve on a
you know what I mean. Yeah, in the seventies. Yeah,
my I think my sister said she was like six
years old something like that, my older sister, but she
(11:46):
told me they saw like behind the scenes of Superman
Canyon and pretty fun. I guess they released like some
behind the scenes footage. There's extra footage of like she's
interviewing a Navao guy, did you Yeah, there's extra scenes
where she's interviewing a Navajo guy and she's talking to
(12:06):
her Margot Kidder, the actress, and then you know, when
the little earthquake happens. Like I guess there's extra scenes
of a Navo guy talking with her. And I was like, Oh,
I didn't see that in the movie.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
That's cool, it got edited out or something. This area
is so small that our version of Blockbuster was first. Yeah,
I mean, I think we eventually got a Blockbuster, but
front Row Seat like just never died. I think it might.
I don't know. I think it's sounds last like or
did they finally get.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I don't know. I don't They're not here in galp anymore, right, I.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Know they were like literally here maybe a year ago.
So I'm like they're still.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Kicking because they were still going.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
We're basically reservation, so people don't have streaming services. The
internet is always lacking, so people do still watch like
DVDs or even vhs.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I'm sure growing up here near the reservation, I mean this,
you know, the Gallop area. Like I had to rent everything.
That's how I watched. I had to. I think I
bought Stranger Things season one the mall I'm in. I
watched Stranger Things, not on Netflix. I watched it on DVD.
I'd go to for here locally. I'd always rent the
(13:15):
movies here, a TV show, movies. I remember renting Vikings,
the TV show. You know, they had that character Ragnar Ragnar.
He was played by Travis Fimmel, and I remember I
have a poster and my my mom's old home here
near Gallup, and I remember thinking like, oh man, I
would love to work on a show like this. And
fast forward Travis fimmele from Vikings. He was a character
(13:38):
on Rust and I got to hang out with him.
We shared a Coca Cola, and I never told him like, hey,
I watched I've rented your your TV show at front
row seat, and now I'm working with you living my dream.
But that's kind of a cool little anecdote I wanted
to throw in.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
It's just nice to see somebody who's from here, local,
who you know, cares about native film. It was inspired
by native film and is now in that industry.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, the film industry is a lot of things to explore.
What I love about filmmaking ism, it's a it's a
visual art, right, It's a medium, and it encompasses so
many things. So I mean, you got writers, you know,
people who are so talented that they could write novels.
It's got people who write scripts. You got people who
do the you know the thespianism, you know performance, you
(14:22):
know theater. Yeah, you got people who's shaping life. Photography.
You forget, like, you know, everything's all digital. Now you know,
there's new generational digital. I mean, get a black Magic camera,
but we forget it's it's moving pictures. It's photography. I
mean it's it's twenty four frames per second, and so
it's you know you're shaping light for that painting with light,
(14:42):
you have scenic painters, construction. There's so many like there's
it's a medium that uses collaboration as so many artists
are involved. People forget that. The music composers. Yeah, yeah,
I was researching like Hans Zimmer All these people do
the music for you know what I mean, Christopher Nolan movies.
These people they have like master's degrees and like orchestra symphony.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, it's like a big industry and a lot of
money goes into it, but it's very competitive. Only I mean,
if you think about all the movies we watch, we're
all watching the same stuff, you know, made by the
same people, with the same producers and the same studios
funding it. And so it's and you know, when they
fund these big pictures, you read like something really like
Corny got funded for whatever, and you're like, dang, like
(15:27):
there's all these projects that people probably have that they
could make, but we'll never see it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, but you know that's reality of filmmaking. It's just like,
because I really had a lot of respect for a
lot of filmmakers, directors, actors, and then you see the
antics and you see this you know what I mean,
on set and you're like, oh, wow, this is real
Hollywood here, and it's the ugly thing. The CEO, Yeah
it is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's it is kind of ugly, and when you see
all the like politics behind it, it's it's just like
any other industry where people probably get the jobs maybe
because they're related or because you know, there's all these
like clicks and clubs and whatever. And some people think,
like you were saying, you can only be a director
or whatever, but like you're doing something pretty cool and
(16:09):
it's still creative and it's still in the industry, but
it's just a little different. I just think it's a
really good insight to like, Okay, I never thought about that.
I didn't real knew that was a job, and like
that's how it works, and I'm glad you shared that
with us.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, no problem. And I normally don't go
on social media, but I feel like that's a good
tool for up and coming filmmakers. I meant because technology
has improved so quickly, Like people were using TikTok I mean,
which which is fine. I've never I've never I've never
downloaded the app, but I've seen completely addicted yeah, I've
(16:41):
seen people reposted and they're doing skits, you know what
I mean, and stuff, and I think it's great. I
think we're living in a cool time where people are
I don't like the term content creator. I don't know
why people use that term, but I think like visual
art and filmmaker, I really like those terms. But yeah,
I really encourage people if you have a phone, you know,
I mean, and we're like your stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Native audience, I feel like they're hungry for Native content,
Like I'm on Native TikTok because it's hilarious, because it's
stuff that, like, you know, it's poking fun at like
all these struggles but like in a lightheard way, or
maybe it's not, and you know, you could you can
relate to like these kids on the reds and you're like,
this is cool. So I feel like that's what other
Native people want. So I'm glad there is some little
(17:23):
outlet to show that. And I'm just like it's fun.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I've watched all the skits and then the humor
and then I know it's localized humor. Yeah, I mean
it's it's inside jokes.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, it's probably like the shit ass that you're talking
about like whatever that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, I really enjoy it, and I want to tell
people keep doing that, like, keep creating your own content.
You don't need big producers for all this stuff. And
if you have good writing and good content, and then
someone's going to reach out and give you an opportunity,
you know what I mean. Maybe Chris Iyer will see
one of your TikTok's or ZN mclarnen and then offer like, hey,
(17:55):
would you like to turn this into a movie or
TV show?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah? Yeah, and even not. I mean like people totally
living off of TikTok.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I need to download it. I need My sister keeps
telling me to do it, is like, yeah, I should.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
If you want to be productive, maybe no more distractions,
but yeah. This bonus episode of burn Sage, Burn Bridges
was written and produced by myself, Nicole Garcia, along with
Max Williams and Dylan Fagan. Thank you for listening.
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