October 8, 2025 • 34 mins
A conversation with Matthew Livingston, a Navajo (Diné) Chief Lighting Technician lighting the way on major productions. He shares his journey in the film industry and what it’s like working behind the scenes.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
It wasn't till I moved to Albuquerque. I told people
I had Wi Fi. I was like, oh my god,
it's like this so fast. This is Spotify. Growing up
here and near the reservation, I had to rent and everything.
Like even today, I still have physical media.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
This is burn Stage, Burn Bridges. I'm your host, Nicole Garcia.
Just to let you know, this episode has some cursing.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I was just looking at my movie collection and I
counted like, I think one six hundred and seventy eight
DHS tapes and I have like two thousand DVDs, so
I think all together almost four thousand movies physical media. Yeah,
so I'm a big nerd movie nerd.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Native people have always used visual arts to tell stories.
It's part of who we are today. One of the
ways that continues is through filmmaking, So it makes sense
that more and more of us are stepping into that space.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
My name is Matthew Livingston. I am Key Annie and Nasshus.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Shit are those people in this region?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah? Yeah, I think the Towering House is everybody currently
right now. I am a member of IAZZI. Acronym is
International Alliance of Stage and Theater Employees, so it's local
for eighty out of Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And that's a union for what type of positions does
it cover?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, that's funny because when I first started in A
four eighty, I was a set dresser. That's what I
started off as. And four eighty is one of those
unions where it's it's multi faceted. It's not like LA
where it's just one union specific. So our union covers
several crafts. So I do set dressing, and then I
experimented a lot. I jumped around, you know when you
(01:45):
make friends networking, and then I moved to set lighting
and then rigging electric and grip work.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Do you remember how we met. I think you might
have been like, did you participate in one of our
film things? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah? That was kind of like a catalyst for everything.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
In twenty eighteen, through the Gallup Film Foundation, we hosted
a sixty six hour digital shootout. It was a short
film competition that Matthew took part in.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I first enrolled in school after high school for media journalism,
communication journalism. They didn't have a film school here in
Gallup at that time, so anything that was close with media,
so which was a good stepping stone because I learned photography,
you know, the old school photography, and it was my
introduction to camera. So that was cool. And after that
(02:34):
I would tell people, Oh, I want to do movie.
I just kept procrastinating, and then finally, like when I
heard of the film Festival and I was like, maybe
I should do it and I had money save the side.
I bought a DSLR camera, bought a used computer at
the Final cut pro and I was like, yeah, I'm
going to try this. And then I was like, oh wow,
I think I'm going to move forward with this and
I want to, you know, educate myself more. You're gonna
(02:55):
do it the right way. And so that's when I
enrolled for film school and I started researching. I really
wanted to go to ai AI. Oh yeah, I A,
I A, but I couldn't afford it. It was too
expensive for me, and I ended up choosing CNM Community
College in Albuquerque. They had programs that were I guess
(03:18):
vocational type like, so it wasn't like a degree per se.
It was like a certificate. You get a one year
film certificate. I think it was called the Film Technician certificate,
but they have you do jump right in and you
get on the grip the genie camera. They had camera classes,
cinematographer classes, which was really fun. And I know most
(03:40):
people who go to film school to do the traditional
route with film theory and whatnot, and they don't get
their hands touching equipment. But when I went to CNM,
like you, it was geared for the film crew world.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I think at that time too, there was so many
things filming in New Mexico and they really needed and bodies.
You know, the industry was really popping off in New Mexico.
Like wasn't that like the Breaking Dad after that, and
then just things just started coming here.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, you are correct, because the film program they gave
you certain so many days to join the union, and
you're right, they're trying to expedite crew and get people
out there. When I got in, and then they had
the film incentives to the tax rebates, and yeah, everything
was coming in. I think my first big movie was
a Netflix film with Jessica Alba. Fortunately, you know, a blessing.
(04:32):
I met the right people and got myself on sets.
But it wasn't overnight. It took me about probably two years,
two and a half years just to get into union.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, I know the union there's like certain rules like
you have to work so much or how does that
all work out?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, the requirements were. It's different everywhere, like LA New York,
but for Santa Fe for Local four eighty, New Mexico territory,
you have to complete thirty days on a union's set
to be considered for union status, and then you also
have to pay union dues. I think when I joined.
(05:09):
I don't know if it's the same, but when I joined,
I think it was like twelve hundred dollars that you
have to pay it. You don't have to pay it
all up the front. No, No, it's just a one time,
one initiation fee, but it varies. I know if I
were to join the same union as a set lighting
technician in LA, I think it's like four grand for
(05:29):
their initiation fee to join.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
As far as film goes, like the stuff we're making here,
they're not union gigs because it's just like indie local
artists and stuff. So when you're working for a union,
for it to count has to be like a union
pay right, union pay.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, So you do have to work on a union
set thirty days, which I know is very hard to
know the right people to get on set. I think
working non union work is a good way to get
experience and then learn from union people, because usually department
heads in the indie world, you know, I mean, they
they got their experience from working on indie sets. But
(06:05):
I feel like in the indie world, non union world,
if you get the right tutelage, you know, you get
the right people to teach you, and it's very helpful.
So that way, when you get to union sets, they
don't have to teach you anything because you're already put
in you know that one hundred days or one thousand
hours of indie work and you're you know what I mean,
you're ready to step on a union set, which I
(06:26):
recommend people doing, I mean intern work. I know people
get it, gets frowned upon, like, oh, I'm not going
to work for free or this that, And I know
there's shady producers that take advantage of free work, but
I guess it's a perspective thing. For me. I was
just like, I know I'm getting taken advantage of, but
I know the knowledge is far far more worth than money.
(06:48):
I interned on movies where I worked sixteen hours no pay.
Oh my gosh, it helped out and it's good networking
and knowledge is more important to me. I mean learning
the thing is the way, yeah, to do things properly
and safely.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, there's so many things happening on a film set,
Like I don't even know all the proper protocols and whatever,
but I'm sure you have to be aware of that
because you could literally walk in the wrong area and
like ruin something that was probably costing you know, thousands
of dollars.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Oh yeah, there's a there's that's it the set etiquette.
I mean you could go in a room it's trysted
call a hot set, and you could re continuity.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm thinking about God, what was that actor's name who
got mad at the lighting guy with.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Oh yeah, Christian Bale.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I want you off the fucking set, you prick. No,
don't just be sorry. Think for one second that the
are you doing?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Someone close to me they were on that set and
that was their boss that he got yelled at. I
think it was a plausible thing that he was doing.
I think he was trying to get an eyelight in
there or something. I think that was it, Like he
was doing what the DP wanted him to do. And fortunately,
you know, Christian Bale thought it was disrespectful.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
We're not actors, so I don't really know what head
space it takes to get into that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh yeah, definitely. And I gave a lot of actors,
a lot of them not a credit, because when I
was in film school, we would be the crew, right,
and then we get local theater people. People would audition.
They're not getting paid, but they're getting you know, credit,
They're getting reals they want to build on for future
projects that are probably sag. And I remember one time
(08:32):
they're like, oh, we don't have the actor here. He's
running ladies in makeup. Can you sit in for him
and read these lines? And I sat in and I
was reading the script and I was like, oh wow,
they got to remember all these lines. I know how
to do it, and then perform it. And then all
the lights were shining at me, you know, blinding my face.
I was looking around. I was having this weird anxiety.
I was like, oh wow, this is tough, like everybody
(08:54):
looking at you and then bright lights in your face,
and you get to remember all these lines and perform
on top of it. So I give them a lot
of credit for that, for.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Sure, definitely the like another part that's rough. So I
could imagine being so emotionally attached something and then having
like an outburst because you're like because I even even
in my work, I'm like, someone move this, and I'm like,
you're so pissed off, And if anybody heard me, they'd
be like, God, calm down. You know, it's like really
not that important. But yeah, I could get pretty snippy.
(09:24):
Actors have a difficult job. They have to become characters,
remember lines and hit their marks. So if someone breaks
your focus, I get how frustrating that could be. What
other things can like we find your work from.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, I am listed in IMDb, you know International Movie Database.
It's funny because there's I think there's like eight other
Matthew Livingstons, so I think Matthew Livingston and then it's
like a Roman numeral three. It has a little bio,
you know, Matthew Livingston, Navajo, Indigenous. Some stuff hasn't been updated.
I worked on a bunch of shows. I worked on Eddington,
(10:02):
the New A twenty four movie. I worked on that
like for the prep and in the first two three weeks.
Then I went onto another film, The Jordan Peel movie
they shot. It was funny because with w Quane Phoenix,
they do bts, you know, I mean they do advertising
and they do you know, photography, And I remember on
the our walkie talkies they were like, yeah, we need
(10:24):
people that go to the store because I'm the photographer.
He needs some help over at the store. Does anybody
want to help him? And it's one of those jobs.
It's just like, ah, I we don't want to go
over there, and we're in Truth our Consequences. No, nobody
want to walk around that town because everything is everywhere,
different spots. And then I kind of acquiesced to it.
It's like, ah, I was like, I'll copy it. You know,
(10:45):
that's with the said etiquette. So I jumped on. No
one wants saying I think everybody's quiet looking at each other.
It's like, I'll do it. I'll volunteer. So it's like, yeah,
copy that, I'll head to the store. On my way
to the store, like a car pulled up in front
of me and here was with Quane Phoenix. He comes out.
I was like, oh crap, that's what Keen Phoenix. He
sees me, you know, he kind of acknowledges me and
(11:05):
then it's this awkward moment where like he gets out
of the vehicle and I'm there, and I purposely slow
down so he could walk ahead of me. And there's
this awkward walking of like him two steps ahead of me,
and I'm just purposely staying behind him because you know,
like actors don't want to be bothered, and it said
eutiquette not to bother him. But we ended up going
to the same location. I was like, whoa, I guess
(11:26):
we're going to the same store. Then I go inside
and then the director Ari Astero is in there. I
was like, oh wow. I was like, I guess they're
doing the photo shoot, like promotional photos for it. So
I ended up gaffing that photo shoot and it was
pretty cool turning on lights, setting up lights.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Just because you're running the erran yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Then ari aster and the producers are like, oh, we
want it warmer here. So it's changing you know, color temperature,
putting light stands different places, you know, shaping the light
and working with the photographer and it was really fine.
I was like, oh wow, I get to put this
on my resume when this comes out. I gaffed the
photo shoot for La Kan Phoenix Ariaster and he personally
(12:04):
came up to the crew. He came a photographer and
he came up to me. He like shook my hand,
He's oh, thank you, And I was like, all right, cool.
You just never know what's gonna happen. Yeah, I was
just sitting on a truck, just waiting for orders, and
then eventually I just ended up gaffing a photo shoot.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Some other notable things he's worked on are res Ball,
the new Jordan Peel movie Him The Cleaning Lady, and
Flaming Hot enrolls like lighting, grip and sound, you know,
a whole language that I don't know, Like I don't
know what it means to warm us. Like there's just
so many things.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Lights have different color temperatures. You know, you have the
daylight that's white light, and then you have the oranger light,
you know. I mean that's like tungsten light. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So you literally had to learn this on the fly
at CNM.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, they'll teach you. Yeah, and then this all this
stuff can be learned on YouTube, and everything's on YouTube.
There's a lot of things, so everything's on YouTube. I
think it's the common language for photography. Too, because photographer cleanses. Yeah,
because you can change color temperature on your camera as well.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I have recently looking at art and people were using
architectural terms and I'm like, just this, all light crosses over.
I guess I'm sure they use it in film too,
and like blocking and whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. And there's there's stops of light
you got because you're working with camera color temperatures. And
then you're the grip world is shaping the light, you know,
and you're flagging stuff shaping the light. You know. You
don't want light too harsh in someone's face. Then you
can diffuse it. Cinematographer wants to be at a certain
stop on their their lenses, and so a lot of
(13:39):
gaffers and dps carry the light meter so be able
to see the intensity of the environment and ambient light
and practical light. Because everything's all fake and movies, I
(14:00):
didn't know there's a lighting person. I thought they just
press record on the camera. I had no idea. I
think it's all premeditated, especially for rigging. That's another job
I do where we lay the power out. It's really
dangerous heavy, it's dangerous and it's heavy duty work, Like
I think I work with ex football players they won
like the Vision two championship from like Colorado State. I
(14:22):
work with the organ Ducks football player.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
These are that because they have to like carry Yeah,
it's heavy, huge guys.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I was probably the smallest person on her crew, and
I barely kept up with them. Like each one of
those cables it's called four ot They weighed like one
hundred and twenty pounds per real and we laid they
laid them out and like one hundred degree weather, very hot,
and it's like yeah, Like if you go in a
film set, the rigging department and the ringing electrics, those
are the big guys. Those are the hammers. I think
(14:52):
that's probably every job I've had an AATZI or in
the film crew. I think that's the most intensive exercising
you know, and use work you'll do. It's like it's
not for everybody, and then those jobs are always open.
So if you want to like introduction into the industry
and you feel like you can keep up with that,
that's a job that no one wants to take. Yeah,
(15:16):
but there is other work too, where like it's a
wireless lighting systems, you know, like DMX RMX. So they'll
lay plans out just like a regular electrician. They'll drill
holes and they'll put like wireless lights in there, like
fake bulbs. They look like practical bulbs, but they're really
(15:37):
alied fixtures and they have built in wireless inside them.
And then they'll work with construction and construction will make
like facade and then they'll have a diagram and there's
so much wires going through you label everything. Then when
the people come on set, and then that's when the
gaffer tells the lighting board operator, I'll turn this light off,
turn the bathroom light, turn that down, the fifty percent
(16:00):
full control of every light on that set.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Wow, are you kind of an electrician? Like does the
do those skills transfer over?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah? I feel like if people were like doing journeyman
electrician work, you know, small voltage and they have understanding
of power, Yeah, they could definitely transfer to film. Yeah
lighting your house, so yeah we're lighting your house. Yeah
for sure. But it was a lot of onto job training,
Like that's all I know is theatrical theatrical lighting, construction work.
(16:29):
I don't know any of that. I just know theater
lighting and the power that does that. But after you know,
like if I always thought to myself, like, if it
gets really slow in the industry, like I wouldn't mind
exploring that, going back to school and doing the journeyman stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, I definitely. I don't know if it's useful, but
I literally am like, can I build a house? I
bet I can.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I'm the same way. Yeah, And I watched like YouTube videos,
you know, thirty minutes and after that, I'm like, yeah,
I think I can build a house. It's funny because
when I went to film school, I totally ignored grip
an electric. I just want to do cameras, Like, oh,
I want to be, you know, a director of photography.
You want to be a cameraman. That's all I focused
on in film school, like ignored all these other like crafts.
(17:12):
And I remember thinking like, oh, run this lunch box,
and I mean run this, you know, distro box. We're
gonna run lights here, I mean a one K here,
and and then I wouldn't know what they were talking about.
I was just like, I don't need to learn this.
I'm gonna do camera. I'm gonna be a cameraman. But
that's a union that's so hard to get into. So
much gatekeeping. I feel like transpo and camera are the
(17:35):
hardest unions to get into tribalism in there is very
clicking and you have to like really know the right people.
And that's the one thing about film sets is like
we forget that it's only like one department, Like the
department I work on is only five people.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And how many people would be on camera camera?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
If they have two cameras, which typically is A and
a B cam, they probably have see three. There's a
camera operator first AC, second AC, and then they'll share
a utility that you know, in charges batteries, someone that
helps out, someone that's like auxiliary for that, and they'll
have a loader, a person that's in charge of the
(18:13):
equipment and in charge of logistics transpo, and then they'll
have their DP. So I would say there's eight people
in that department. That's just eight people, and then you
got like five thousand people and then want that job.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
What got you to film? Did you watch a lot
of film? Like what got you there?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Oh? Yeah, I think I was a kid. I think
when I was watching Jurassic Park, I was like, oh,
who does this? And I think I watched behind the
scenes of the steady cam operators, and they had the
guy that you know, he has the balanced camera and
he walks around and they're showing you know, the shining
you know, shots from Aliens, and I was like, oh wow,
steady cam. That's cool. Then you see this did the
(18:51):
creature effects, you know, Stan Winston and then Jurassic Park.
I would just introduce me to like, you know, I
guess I had that realation, you know, that epiphany like
oh wow, this is a job you can do, like
adults can do this. When I get older, I can
get paid and make movies. And then as I got older,
you know, I see the you know Clerks I think
(19:12):
was an indie film, al Mariachi Desperado. I mean, you
see these indie films, and then then you go to
your big budget movies.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You're kind of considered to be in like the gig economy,
and so you're working like when jobs come about and
then not how is that like and what do people
need to know about that? Because that's kind of rough.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Oh yeah, with the film industry. It's funny because we
don't the IATSI I'm a part of. We're not a
hiring haul. We're a union. But it's up to you
to find your own work. It's up to you to
find your own networking, find your own department heads, and
you know, get your own job because union doesn't guarantee
you work. I mean, you can say you're in the
(19:53):
available roster, but you really have to like market yourself
and get good word of mouth producers, and you have
to have really good set etiquette. We talked about that.
You know, obviously you can't be late. With the film industry.
Everybody's hour earlier more to work, and if you're thirty minutes,
that's probably considered late. There's been moments where I worked
(20:14):
on TV shows in Santa Fe and I drove every day.
I feel like if I had a family or significant
other kids, I could be really tough to be in
this industry and not saying that you can't do it.
And there's people who do it. You and other indigenous
crew that have family and able to do that. But yeah,
and then you're on your feet for twelve, thirteen, fourteen
hours you're on set, and it can be boring. It's
(20:35):
rounded upon to be on your phone, it's round upon
to be sitting down, so you're standing being alert. It's
a job, not for everybody. I just tell people like
that's why in the indie world. I mean, it's good
to fill it out because I have several people who
are like adamant that the volition, like no, this is
what I want to do. I want to be in
the film industry, and then after their first day they're like, yeah,
(20:55):
I don't think I want to do that. Yeah, it's
not for me. So it's something that i'd say, like
an indie world, check it out, see if you like it.
But it's a job not for everybody. It is very
scary because people will know my story. Like when I
went to film school, I sold everything I had, Like
I had two vehicles, used vehicles. I sold it. I
(21:18):
didn't get on a scholarship, so I had to pay
for my tuition, so I got like a studio apartment.
I'm sleeping on the floor, had no furniture. I said
yes to everything. I told you. I worked for free,
and if I had a job, i'd quit it because
you know, I'd get another film gig, you know, because
that's what I wanted to do, is I want to
be in the film industry. And it was like a
one way ticket for me. There was no way for
(21:39):
me to fail. So I studied hard and caught my
a's and met the right people, not to set etiquique
that I wanted. But it wasn't like an overnight thing.
It took me like three years to get into the union.
So some people were like, oh, can you get me in?
And I was like, I don't do the hiring. I
was like, I'd recommend you go to film school or
you know, do some sort of training, some sort of training.
(22:02):
It's something that you need to like, just like anything else,
you got to like study and research and you just
never know when your next job is. It is very scary.
You just it's not consistent work. Yeah. No, people who
will only work one movie a year because they can't
get work. So you definitely need a side hustle.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Or rich parents.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Rich parents, Yeah, you definitely need you know, you know,
like a plan B you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah,
But people who are consistently working, those people put the
work in and they're good at their craft and people
want them. I mean they want to hire them all
the time.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I just wanted to bring that up because when they
were doing all those training programs like CNN, it was
definitely to get people in these positions because there was
like so many things filming, there was so much money,
and then come to now, we were saying only Dark
Wins is really filming now.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, So like there's that time period like twenty twenty one,
and then the I think nobody worked in twenty twenty
two because of the writer's strike, and then right like
nobody worked was Dark Times. And then after the writer's strike,
like a huge bunch of productions that were on hold,
they came in and they ate up a lot of
(23:16):
the crew and they had to hire out bring people
from Atlanta and New York. People were blaming the strikes.
I think that scared producers and productions like to where
they didn't want to deal with unions like Marvel. I
heard they pulled everything out of Atlanta. So the only
production filming now is Dark Ones. And the last time
I heard there was nineteen hundred members and the four
(23:37):
eighty and Dark Ones is probably only two hundred crew.
So now you go, you have like seventeen hundred people
out of work. I've been on social media with a
lot of film groups where people were like, oh, I
heard New Mexico is popping, and I heard you guys
have a lot of jobs, a lot of films. We
plan on moving there. A lot of people would lant
on New York and we're like nope.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
So on that down spiral of this pop in industry
here in New Mexico. Do you think that that might
be why Rust was film here?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, I think tax rebates. Obviously a lot of producers
will film here, and I think that distribution company. I
forgot with distribution company, but they always film here a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I wanted to talk to you about that because I
know you had spoke a little bit about it. Because
now that all the trials are done, I think you're
able to write.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah. I was a crew member on Rust. I was
one of the I think there's only two navelos on
that set. But yeah, it was a pretty crazy when
it happened. I didn't know it was a gunshot because
I was talking with the paramedic that was there. We're
good friends and we're sitting on the lift gate. You know,
we're having conversation and then we heard a loud bang.
(24:52):
But my brain couldn't comprehend it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
This headline is just absolutely awful. It's stunning about Alec Baldwin. Yeah,
it's certainly a it's really shocking and we're all involved
a horror on this movie set in New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
First thing I thought it was us. I was like, oh,
did we rig a light? Did a light fall down
from the ceiling? You know what I mean? Because it
wasn't gonna be safe.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
We when we be.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Safety chain, you want to have lights like if there's
a contingency like it's gonna fall, like you know, a
chain or something, we'll keep it from hidden the ground.
And I was thinking, and I was thinking, like, no,
I don't think they had any lights there. We had
a big lighting setup. We had cranes outside. We had
these big eighteen K lights and I remember, uh Helena
the DP. I remember that morning I had my breakfast
(25:34):
burrito and she was sitting on our table. She was
telling us how the day was gonna go. And we're like,
all right, cool, you know, because you know, she's our boss,
she's the DP director photography, and we're lighting, so we
do what she tells us to do. So we had
a big lighting setup and I took photos of our
lighting set up the Crown. You know, the cranes had
all these lights through every window. I was like, oh,
this looks cool, and she was admiring and she was
(25:55):
taking photos and I was like, all right, cool. They
weren't very transparent about what happened, like because there's only
so many people on set, and so you know, the
medic ran in. I thought it was just a pyro
accident pyrotechnics, because you know they used fake loads and
guns burn people. You know, you can do half loads,
quarter loads, and it's basically there for the muzzle flash,
(26:17):
right to imitate the muzzle flash. And that's what I
thought was, Oh, someone got burned. Maybe someone was so
close to the gun and it burned somebody. All of
us didn't really take it too seriously and we're like
half cautious, but we're like, oh someone got hurt. And
we were all of the pyro accent, I mean, the
PA's they just let everybody go back to base camp.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
The kind of like sho shovel you guys away.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
So we did not know. I found out she was
shot until I got home. Tell I was on TV.
Tell I was on TV, and I was like, oh wow,
they did not tell us what happened.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
It seemed like a very hostile work environment between certain
crew members. From what they say, probably because the budget
was so low and they were cut corners and COVID
protocols like all these you know factors. But the camera
people quit like the day before.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And there's some controversy for that too,
because when they left, they took their monitors and all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So that's why she was under the camera.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Under the camera, Yeah, because they took the monitors.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Because she would have been behind a computer screen watching
the shot set up.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, I'll she would have been in a video village, safely,
in a video village watching that.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
That was crazy to me. Imagine the guilt with that.
I think they were walking out because they were not
happy with the safety protocols.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I think a lot of it was they were complaining
about their hotel accommodations. They were complaining about their hotel stay.
And you know, this is a six hundred people. They
always get the labeled as prima donnas, you know, camera people,
and then a lot of is that's true, A lot
of that stereotype's true. But they were complaining about their
hotel stay. I do think it was legitimate. I guess
(27:52):
there's emails, there is factual information that backup. They were
complaining about why done safety at the same time, a
lot of it through different departments. They were complaining about
Hotel Stay. I feel like everything's weird. It was just
like for every action there's a reaction, right, and for
this it was just so many variables, right, like camera
complaining about Hotel Stay, camera complain about gun safety. Other
(28:16):
people complain about gun safety, Art department people complaining. You know,
she had too much of a workload. She said to herself,
I was doing too many wearing too many hats. And
then it's like when producers are trying to cut corners.
You create that environment. I know, all those variables of
what can happen will happen, and unfortunately it did happen.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
No one really knows how real bullets got mixed in.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Oh yeah, that's that's a big no no too, Like
I don't know. I mean that's something for I think
her name's Hannah. I mean that's something for her to
talk about. And then like we're talking about, like said,
there could be sabotage, we don't know. I don't know.
And then for the manufacturer to you know, accidentally put
a bullet that is plausible should be checking that as well,
(29:01):
and then literally have first ad you know Dave Hall's
you should have been checking that too tonight.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Another twist in the Rust movie shooting investigation, as a
new report concludes the trigger of the gun used on
set was indeed pulled.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And then I don't know why Alec Balden is planning
and pulling the trigger on a gun on a rehearsal.
That's a no no. And then they always say that
you never point a gun, even if it's a plastic
toy gun. You never pointed at someone and pull the trigger.
And then you just don't do that. It's not set atiquette.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
There's no one thing. It's crazy. And the thing that
was scary was I think because they shut down the
set and it's now like a crime scene and they
got everybody's holsters because there's other actors shooting guns, and
they did find other live rounds in their whole, so
like it was it could have happened anywhere.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, exactly, And it's and it's one of those things
too where like we're the last to leave the set
because they're like, oh, you guys gotta leave. We're like,
we can't leave. We have cranes up in the air.
We have like these eight teen thousand, eighteen K lights burning.
Someone's gonna get electrocuted. Crane could get blown over if
there's wind. We gotta stay like we got to pull
(30:10):
these cranes down, turn the power off. And so we
were the last ones to leave that set. I have
an Instagram at that time, and I took photos of
like the lighting setup, but I never like tagle I'm
working on a movie, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, just like this is what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, this is always a good lighting setup had today,
as long as they're not like revealing. And it was
private too. It was just to like, you know, my
close friends or whatever. And then I remember that day
people were texting me like oh you okay whatever, and
I was like, what what's going on? And that's when
I remember was like, oh, I posted a picture of
lights and the church on my Instagram and then this
accident happened and people were calling if I was okay,
(30:48):
and my sister family and people were like, oh are
you okay, because you know that Instagram photo I posted,
and I was like, oh crap. I remember like al
Baldwin was just standing by me. He was frantic. He
was changed cigarettes and he was scared, and he's like very,
very anxious about something. I think they basically reshot the
whole movie and it was in Montana.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
That's so interesting because I thought the point was, you know,
her family wanting to see stuff that she.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, me too. I was hoping they use footage that,
like you said, she shot for rememberance, homage to her
or tribute to her. But yeah, Like when I watched
that trailer, I was like, none of this is what
I worked on. All. This is all. It's a whole
new movie and they basically reshot the.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Really, Wow, that's unfortunate. The rush tragedy shows what can
happen when budgets are tight and people don't understand that
safety is a key part of set etiquette.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So when I met you, you know I I call
myself a YouTuber, right, So I bought a camera. I
was like an old Canon T five. I I was
doing little mini docs, right, interviewing people like, oh what
do you do? I make Toelry had a YouTube channel.
Nobody watched it. I think I had like twenty views
every video I put up. Some people tried looking for
it doesn't exist. I took it down. I'm like, but
(32:02):
I did my best. But I thought I was you know,
I thought I was the shit, Like, oh yeah, I
taught myself how to do final cut, pro how to edit.
It's like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna be a badass,
but I'm gonna go to film school. And when I
went to film school, and that's when I realized, like, oh,
there's more to this, and there's more than all this.
There's lighting, there's grip art department, there's set dressers, there's continuity,
(32:23):
there's script supervisors, there's construction, there's transportation, there's crafty, there's catering.
There's so much stuff from the crew. You know, when
the end credits, people leave right they don't watch the
end credits. But there's so many people. There's producers, there's
background people, you know, fake people in the background pretending
they're part of the scene. I was like, I don't know, man,
(32:43):
I was like, this is not like YouTube, you know
what I mean. This is not like we're gonna set
up an aperture light that you paid one hundred dollars for.
Is I know? This is the film industry, Like they
have a camera rental four hundred thousand, you know what
I mean, like the endgame. I do still want to
be a writer director, but I'm glad I went through.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
You know, you know, the whole gamute.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, the gamut. Yeah exactly. I know what to expect
because you know, I have friends that are like, oh,
I want to shoot a film. I was like, what
is your budget? Like have you thought about feeding people?
Have you thought about the location? Have you thought about
like you know, I mean just different things. And I
didn't have that knowledge before, you know, just like oh,
let's just shoot this. But you know a lot of
like reality hits. But that's my next step is I'm
(33:24):
what I told you one of my goals to submit
some stuff to film festivals. I mean, yeah, for sure nationwide.
And but I'm glad I went through because this is
going to be like I've been in the film industry
for like seven eight years now, but with IATZI like
professional you know, film sets going to be like my
fourth year and professional film sets. But I'm glad I
(33:46):
went through this journey so far. Like you said, I
can navigate this with a different mindset because people need
to know about.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
This big things to our guests, Matthew Livingston, who has
recently shifted gears due to the slowdown in the film industry.
He's now working as a camera operator for CBS, Fox
Nexstar Media, covering news stories that feel like making many
documentaries to him. This episode of burn Sage, Burn Bridges
(34:17):
was written and produced by myself, Nicole Garcia, along with
Max Williams and Dylan Fagan. Thank you for listening.
It wasn't till I moved to Albuquerque. I told people
I had Wi Fi. I was like, oh my god,
it's like this so fast. This is Spotify. Growing up
here and near the reservation, I had to rent and everything.
Like even today, I still have physical media.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
This is burn Stage, Burn Bridges. I'm your host, Nicole Garcia.
Just to let you know, this episode has some cursing.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I was just looking at my movie collection and I
counted like, I think one six hundred and seventy eight
DHS tapes and I have like two thousand DVDs, so
I think all together almost four thousand movies physical media. Yeah,
so I'm a big nerd movie nerd.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Native people have always used visual arts to tell stories.
It's part of who we are today. One of the
ways that continues is through filmmaking, So it makes sense
that more and more of us are stepping into that space.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
My name is Matthew Livingston. I am Key Annie and Nasshus.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Shit are those people in this region?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah? Yeah, I think the Towering House is everybody currently
right now. I am a member of IAZZI. Acronym is
International Alliance of Stage and Theater Employees, so it's local
for eighty out of Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And that's a union for what type of positions does
it cover?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, that's funny because when I first started in A
four eighty, I was a set dresser. That's what I
started off as. And four eighty is one of those
unions where it's it's multi faceted. It's not like LA
where it's just one union specific. So our union covers
several crafts. So I do set dressing, and then I
experimented a lot. I jumped around, you know when you
(01:45):
make friends networking, and then I moved to set lighting
and then rigging electric and grip work.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Do you remember how we met. I think you might
have been like, did you participate in one of our
film things? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah? That was kind of like a catalyst for everything.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
In twenty eighteen, through the Gallup Film Foundation, we hosted
a sixty six hour digital shootout. It was a short
film competition that Matthew took part in.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I first enrolled in school after high school for media journalism,
communication journalism. They didn't have a film school here in
Gallup at that time, so anything that was close with media,
so which was a good stepping stone because I learned photography,
you know, the old school photography, and it was my
introduction to camera. So that was cool. And after that
(02:34):
I would tell people, Oh, I want to do movie.
I just kept procrastinating, and then finally, like when I
heard of the film Festival and I was like, maybe
I should do it and I had money save the side.
I bought a DSLR camera, bought a used computer at
the Final cut pro and I was like, yeah, I'm
going to try this. And then I was like, oh wow,
I think I'm going to move forward with this and
I want to, you know, educate myself more. You're gonna
(02:55):
do it the right way. And so that's when I
enrolled for film school and I started researching. I really
wanted to go to ai AI. Oh yeah, I A,
I A, but I couldn't afford it. It was too
expensive for me, and I ended up choosing CNM Community
College in Albuquerque. They had programs that were I guess
(03:18):
vocational type like, so it wasn't like a degree per se.
It was like a certificate. You get a one year
film certificate. I think it was called the Film Technician certificate,
but they have you do jump right in and you
get on the grip the genie camera. They had camera classes,
cinematographer classes, which was really fun. And I know most
(03:40):
people who go to film school to do the traditional
route with film theory and whatnot, and they don't get
their hands touching equipment. But when I went to CNM,
like you, it was geared for the film crew world.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I think at that time too, there was so many
things filming in New Mexico and they really needed and bodies.
You know, the industry was really popping off in New Mexico.
Like wasn't that like the Breaking Dad after that, and
then just things just started coming here.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, you are correct, because the film program they gave
you certain so many days to join the union, and
you're right, they're trying to expedite crew and get people
out there. When I got in, and then they had
the film incentives to the tax rebates, and yeah, everything
was coming in. I think my first big movie was
a Netflix film with Jessica Alba. Fortunately, you know, a blessing.
(04:32):
I met the right people and got myself on sets.
But it wasn't overnight. It took me about probably two years,
two and a half years just to get into union.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, I know the union there's like certain rules like
you have to work so much or how does that
all work out?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, the requirements were. It's different everywhere, like LA New York,
but for Santa Fe for Local four eighty, New Mexico territory,
you have to complete thirty days on a union's set
to be considered for union status, and then you also
have to pay union dues. I think when I joined.
(05:09):
I don't know if it's the same, but when I joined,
I think it was like twelve hundred dollars that you
have to pay it. You don't have to pay it
all up the front. No, No, it's just a one time,
one initiation fee, but it varies. I know if I
were to join the same union as a set lighting
technician in LA, I think it's like four grand for
(05:29):
their initiation fee to join.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
As far as film goes, like the stuff we're making here,
they're not union gigs because it's just like indie local
artists and stuff. So when you're working for a union,
for it to count has to be like a union
pay right, union pay.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, So you do have to work on a union
set thirty days, which I know is very hard to
know the right people to get on set. I think
working non union work is a good way to get
experience and then learn from union people, because usually department
heads in the indie world, you know, I mean, they
they got their experience from working on indie sets. But
(06:05):
I feel like in the indie world, non union world,
if you get the right tutelage, you know, you get
the right people to teach you, and it's very helpful.
So that way, when you get to union sets, they
don't have to teach you anything because you're already put
in you know that one hundred days or one thousand
hours of indie work and you're you know what I mean,
you're ready to step on a union set, which I
(06:26):
recommend people doing, I mean intern work. I know people
get it, gets frowned upon, like, oh, I'm not going
to work for free or this that, And I know
there's shady producers that take advantage of free work, but
I guess it's a perspective thing. For me. I was
just like, I know I'm getting taken advantage of, but
I know the knowledge is far far more worth than money.
(06:48):
I interned on movies where I worked sixteen hours no pay.
Oh my gosh, it helped out and it's good networking
and knowledge is more important to me. I mean learning
the thing is the way, yeah, to do things properly
and safely.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, there's so many things happening on a film set,
Like I don't even know all the proper protocols and whatever,
but I'm sure you have to be aware of that
because you could literally walk in the wrong area and
like ruin something that was probably costing you know, thousands
of dollars.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Oh yeah, there's a there's that's it the set etiquette.
I mean you could go in a room it's trysted
call a hot set, and you could re continuity.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I'm thinking about God, what was that actor's name who
got mad at the lighting guy with.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Oh yeah, Christian Bale.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I want you off the fucking set, you prick. No,
don't just be sorry. Think for one second that the
are you doing?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Someone close to me they were on that set and
that was their boss that he got yelled at. I
think it was a plausible thing that he was doing.
I think he was trying to get an eyelight in
there or something. I think that was it, Like he
was doing what the DP wanted him to do. And fortunately,
you know, Christian Bale thought it was disrespectful.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
We're not actors, so I don't really know what head
space it takes to get into that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh yeah, definitely. And I gave a lot of actors,
a lot of them not a credit, because when I
was in film school, we would be the crew, right,
and then we get local theater people. People would audition.
They're not getting paid, but they're getting you know, credit,
They're getting reals they want to build on for future
projects that are probably sag. And I remember one time
(08:32):
they're like, oh, we don't have the actor here. He's
running ladies in makeup. Can you sit in for him
and read these lines? And I sat in and I
was reading the script and I was like, oh wow,
they got to remember all these lines. I know how
to do it, and then perform it. And then all
the lights were shining at me, you know, blinding my face.
I was looking around. I was having this weird anxiety.
I was like, oh wow, this is tough, like everybody
(08:54):
looking at you and then bright lights in your face,
and you get to remember all these lines and perform
on top of it. So I give them a lot
of credit for that, for.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Sure, definitely the like another part that's rough. So I
could imagine being so emotionally attached something and then having
like an outburst because you're like because I even even
in my work, I'm like, someone move this, and I'm like,
you're so pissed off, And if anybody heard me, they'd
be like, God, calm down. You know, it's like really
not that important. But yeah, I could get pretty snippy.
(09:24):
Actors have a difficult job. They have to become characters,
remember lines and hit their marks. So if someone breaks
your focus, I get how frustrating that could be. What
other things can like we find your work from.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, I am listed in IMDb, you know International Movie Database.
It's funny because there's I think there's like eight other
Matthew Livingstons, so I think Matthew Livingston and then it's
like a Roman numeral three. It has a little bio,
you know, Matthew Livingston, Navajo, Indigenous. Some stuff hasn't been updated.
I worked on a bunch of shows. I worked on Eddington,
(10:02):
the New A twenty four movie. I worked on that
like for the prep and in the first two three weeks.
Then I went onto another film, The Jordan Peel movie
they shot. It was funny because with w Quane Phoenix,
they do bts, you know, I mean they do advertising
and they do you know, photography, And I remember on
the our walkie talkies they were like, yeah, we need
(10:24):
people that go to the store because I'm the photographer.
He needs some help over at the store. Does anybody
want to help him? And it's one of those jobs.
It's just like, ah, I we don't want to go
over there, and we're in Truth our Consequences. No, nobody
want to walk around that town because everything is everywhere,
different spots. And then I kind of acquiesced to it.
It's like, ah, I was like, I'll copy it. You know,
(10:45):
that's with the said etiquette. So I jumped on. No
one wants saying I think everybody's quiet looking at each other.
It's like, I'll do it. I'll volunteer. So it's like, yeah,
copy that, I'll head to the store. On my way
to the store, like a car pulled up in front
of me and here was with Quane Phoenix. He comes out.
I was like, oh crap, that's what Keen Phoenix. He
sees me, you know, he kind of acknowledges me and
(11:05):
then it's this awkward moment where like he gets out
of the vehicle and I'm there, and I purposely slow
down so he could walk ahead of me. And there's
this awkward walking of like him two steps ahead of me,
and I'm just purposely staying behind him because you know,
like actors don't want to be bothered, and it said
eutiquette not to bother him. But we ended up going
to the same location. I was like, whoa, I guess
(11:26):
we're going to the same store. Then I go inside
and then the director Ari Astero is in there. I
was like, oh wow. I was like, I guess they're
doing the photo shoot, like promotional photos for it. So
I ended up gaffing that photo shoot and it was
pretty cool turning on lights, setting up lights.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Just because you're running the erran yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Then ari aster and the producers are like, oh, we
want it warmer here. So it's changing you know, color temperature,
putting light stands different places, you know, shaping the light
and working with the photographer and it was really fine.
I was like, oh wow, I get to put this
on my resume when this comes out. I gaffed the
photo shoot for La Kan Phoenix Ariaster and he personally
(12:04):
came up to the crew. He came a photographer and
he came up to me. He like shook my hand,
He's oh, thank you, And I was like, all right, cool.
You just never know what's gonna happen. Yeah, I was
just sitting on a truck, just waiting for orders, and
then eventually I just ended up gaffing a photo shoot.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Some other notable things he's worked on are res Ball,
the new Jordan Peel movie Him The Cleaning Lady, and
Flaming Hot enrolls like lighting, grip and sound, you know,
a whole language that I don't know, Like I don't
know what it means to warm us. Like there's just
so many things.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Lights have different color temperatures. You know, you have the
daylight that's white light, and then you have the oranger light,
you know. I mean that's like tungsten light. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So you literally had to learn this on the fly
at CNM.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, they'll teach you. Yeah, and then this all this
stuff can be learned on YouTube, and everything's on YouTube.
There's a lot of things, so everything's on YouTube. I
think it's the common language for photography. Too, because photographer cleanses. Yeah,
because you can change color temperature on your camera as well.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I have recently looking at art and people were using
architectural terms and I'm like, just this, all light crosses over.
I guess I'm sure they use it in film too,
and like blocking and whatever.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. And there's there's stops of light
you got because you're working with camera color temperatures. And
then you're the grip world is shaping the light, you know,
and you're flagging stuff shaping the light. You know. You
don't want light too harsh in someone's face. Then you
can diffuse it. Cinematographer wants to be at a certain
stop on their their lenses, and so a lot of
(13:39):
gaffers and dps carry the light meter so be able
to see the intensity of the environment and ambient light
and practical light. Because everything's all fake and movies, I
(14:00):
didn't know there's a lighting person. I thought they just
press record on the camera. I had no idea. I
think it's all premeditated, especially for rigging. That's another job
I do where we lay the power out. It's really
dangerous heavy, it's dangerous and it's heavy duty work, Like
I think I work with ex football players they won
like the Vision two championship from like Colorado State. I
(14:22):
work with the organ Ducks football player.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
These are that because they have to like carry Yeah,
it's heavy, huge guys.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I was probably the smallest person on her crew, and
I barely kept up with them. Like each one of
those cables it's called four ot They weighed like one
hundred and twenty pounds per real and we laid they
laid them out and like one hundred degree weather, very hot,
and it's like yeah, Like if you go in a
film set, the rigging department and the ringing electrics, those
are the big guys. Those are the hammers. I think
(14:52):
that's probably every job I've had an AATZI or in
the film crew. I think that's the most intensive exercising
you know, and use work you'll do. It's like it's
not for everybody, and then those jobs are always open.
So if you want to like introduction into the industry
and you feel like you can keep up with that,
that's a job that no one wants to take. Yeah,
(15:16):
but there is other work too, where like it's a
wireless lighting systems, you know, like DMX RMX. So they'll
lay plans out just like a regular electrician. They'll drill
holes and they'll put like wireless lights in there, like
fake bulbs. They look like practical bulbs, but they're really
(15:37):
alied fixtures and they have built in wireless inside them.
And then they'll work with construction and construction will make
like facade and then they'll have a diagram and there's
so much wires going through you label everything. Then when
the people come on set, and then that's when the
gaffer tells the lighting board operator, I'll turn this light off,
turn the bathroom light, turn that down, the fifty percent
(16:00):
full control of every light on that set.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Wow, are you kind of an electrician? Like does the
do those skills transfer over?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah? I feel like if people were like doing journeyman
electrician work, you know, small voltage and they have understanding
of power, Yeah, they could definitely transfer to film. Yeah
lighting your house, so yeah we're lighting your house. Yeah
for sure. But it was a lot of onto job training,
Like that's all I know is theatrical theatrical lighting, construction work.
(16:29):
I don't know any of that. I just know theater
lighting and the power that does that. But after you know,
like if I always thought to myself, like, if it
gets really slow in the industry, like I wouldn't mind
exploring that, going back to school and doing the journeyman stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, I definitely. I don't know if it's useful, but
I literally am like, can I build a house? I
bet I can.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I'm the same way. Yeah, And I watched like YouTube videos,
you know, thirty minutes and after that, I'm like, yeah,
I think I can build a house. It's funny because
when I went to film school, I totally ignored grip
an electric. I just want to do cameras, Like, oh,
I want to be, you know, a director of photography.
You want to be a cameraman. That's all I focused
on in film school, like ignored all these other like crafts.
(17:12):
And I remember thinking like, oh, run this lunch box,
and I mean run this, you know, distro box. We're
gonna run lights here, I mean a one K here,
and and then I wouldn't know what they were talking about.
I was just like, I don't need to learn this.
I'm gonna do camera. I'm gonna be a cameraman. But
that's a union that's so hard to get into. So
much gatekeeping. I feel like transpo and camera are the
(17:35):
hardest unions to get into tribalism in there is very
clicking and you have to like really know the right people.
And that's the one thing about film sets is like
we forget that it's only like one department, Like the
department I work on is only five people.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And how many people would be on camera camera?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
If they have two cameras, which typically is A and
a B cam, they probably have see three. There's a
camera operator first AC, second AC, and then they'll share
a utility that you know, in charges batteries, someone that
helps out, someone that's like auxiliary for that, and they'll
have a loader, a person that's in charge of the
(18:13):
equipment and in charge of logistics transpo, and then they'll
have their DP. So I would say there's eight people
in that department. That's just eight people, and then you
got like five thousand people and then want that job.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
What got you to film? Did you watch a lot
of film? Like what got you there?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Oh? Yeah, I think I was a kid. I think
when I was watching Jurassic Park, I was like, oh,
who does this? And I think I watched behind the
scenes of the steady cam operators, and they had the
guy that you know, he has the balanced camera and
he walks around and they're showing you know, the shining
you know, shots from Aliens, and I was like, oh wow,
steady cam. That's cool. Then you see this did the
(18:51):
creature effects, you know, Stan Winston and then Jurassic Park.
I would just introduce me to like, you know, I
guess I had that realation, you know, that epiphany like
oh wow, this is a job you can do, like
adults can do this. When I get older, I can
get paid and make movies. And then as I got older,
you know, I see the you know Clerks I think
(19:12):
was an indie film, al Mariachi Desperado. I mean, you
see these indie films, and then then you go to
your big budget movies.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
You're kind of considered to be in like the gig economy,
and so you're working like when jobs come about and
then not how is that like and what do people
need to know about that? Because that's kind of rough.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Oh yeah, with the film industry. It's funny because we
don't the IATSI I'm a part of. We're not a
hiring haul. We're a union. But it's up to you
to find your own work. It's up to you to
find your own networking, find your own department heads, and
you know, get your own job because union doesn't guarantee
you work. I mean, you can say you're in the
(19:53):
available roster, but you really have to like market yourself
and get good word of mouth producers, and you have
to have really good set etiquette. We talked about that.
You know, obviously you can't be late. With the film industry.
Everybody's hour earlier more to work, and if you're thirty minutes,
that's probably considered late. There's been moments where I worked
(20:14):
on TV shows in Santa Fe and I drove every day.
I feel like if I had a family or significant
other kids, I could be really tough to be in
this industry and not saying that you can't do it.
And there's people who do it. You and other indigenous
crew that have family and able to do that. But yeah,
and then you're on your feet for twelve, thirteen, fourteen
hours you're on set, and it can be boring. It's
(20:35):
rounded upon to be on your phone, it's round upon
to be sitting down, so you're standing being alert. It's
a job, not for everybody. I just tell people like
that's why in the indie world. I mean, it's good
to fill it out because I have several people who
are like adamant that the volition, like no, this is
what I want to do. I want to be in
the film industry, and then after their first day they're like, yeah,
(20:55):
I don't think I want to do that. Yeah, it's
not for me. So it's something that i'd say, like
an indie world, check it out, see if you like it.
But it's a job not for everybody. It is very
scary because people will know my story. Like when I
went to film school, I sold everything I had, Like
I had two vehicles, used vehicles. I sold it. I
(21:18):
didn't get on a scholarship, so I had to pay
for my tuition, so I got like a studio apartment.
I'm sleeping on the floor, had no furniture. I said
yes to everything. I told you. I worked for free,
and if I had a job, i'd quit it because
you know, I'd get another film gig, you know, because
that's what I wanted to do, is I want to
be in the film industry. And it was like a
one way ticket for me. There was no way for
(21:39):
me to fail. So I studied hard and caught my
a's and met the right people, not to set etiquique
that I wanted. But it wasn't like an overnight thing.
It took me like three years to get into the union.
So some people were like, oh, can you get me in?
And I was like, I don't do the hiring. I
was like, I'd recommend you go to film school or
you know, do some sort of training, some sort of training.
(22:02):
It's something that you need to like, just like anything else,
you got to like study and research and you just
never know when your next job is. It is very scary.
You just it's not consistent work. Yeah. No, people who
will only work one movie a year because they can't
get work. So you definitely need a side hustle.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Or rich parents.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Rich parents, Yeah, you definitely need you know, you know,
like a plan B you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah,
But people who are consistently working, those people put the
work in and they're good at their craft and people
want them. I mean they want to hire them all
the time.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I just wanted to bring that up because when they
were doing all those training programs like CNN, it was
definitely to get people in these positions because there was
like so many things filming, there was so much money,
and then come to now, we were saying only Dark
Wins is really filming now.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, So like there's that time period like twenty twenty one,
and then the I think nobody worked in twenty twenty
two because of the writer's strike, and then right like
nobody worked was Dark Times. And then after the writer's strike,
like a huge bunch of productions that were on hold,
they came in and they ate up a lot of
(23:16):
the crew and they had to hire out bring people
from Atlanta and New York. People were blaming the strikes.
I think that scared producers and productions like to where
they didn't want to deal with unions like Marvel. I
heard they pulled everything out of Atlanta. So the only
production filming now is Dark Ones. And the last time
I heard there was nineteen hundred members and the four
(23:37):
eighty and Dark Ones is probably only two hundred crew.
So now you go, you have like seventeen hundred people
out of work. I've been on social media with a
lot of film groups where people were like, oh, I
heard New Mexico is popping, and I heard you guys
have a lot of jobs, a lot of films. We
plan on moving there. A lot of people would lant
on New York and we're like nope.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
So on that down spiral of this pop in industry
here in New Mexico. Do you think that that might
be why Rust was film here?
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, I think tax rebates. Obviously a lot of producers
will film here, and I think that distribution company. I
forgot with distribution company, but they always film here a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I wanted to talk to you about that because I
know you had spoke a little bit about it. Because
now that all the trials are done, I think you're
able to write.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah. I was a crew member on Rust. I was
one of the I think there's only two navelos on
that set. But yeah, it was a pretty crazy when
it happened. I didn't know it was a gunshot because
I was talking with the paramedic that was there. We're
good friends and we're sitting on the lift gate. You know,
we're having conversation and then we heard a loud bang.
(24:52):
But my brain couldn't comprehend it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
This headline is just absolutely awful. It's stunning about Alec Baldwin. Yeah,
it's certainly a it's really shocking and we're all involved
a horror on this movie set in New Mexico.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
First thing I thought it was us. I was like, oh,
did we rig a light? Did a light fall down
from the ceiling? You know what I mean? Because it
wasn't gonna be safe.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
We when we be.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Safety chain, you want to have lights like if there's
a contingency like it's gonna fall, like you know, a
chain or something, we'll keep it from hidden the ground.
And I was thinking, and I was thinking, like, no,
I don't think they had any lights there. We had
a big lighting setup. We had cranes outside. We had
these big eighteen K lights and I remember, uh Helena
the DP. I remember that morning I had my breakfast
(25:34):
burrito and she was sitting on our table. She was
telling us how the day was gonna go. And we're like,
all right, cool, you know, because you know, she's our boss,
she's the DP director photography, and we're lighting, so we
do what she tells us to do. So we had
a big lighting setup and I took photos of our
lighting set up the Crown. You know, the cranes had
all these lights through every window. I was like, oh,
this looks cool, and she was admiring and she was
(25:55):
taking photos and I was like, all right, cool. They
weren't very transparent about what happened, like because there's only
so many people on set, and so you know, the
medic ran in. I thought it was just a pyro
accident pyrotechnics, because you know they used fake loads and
guns burn people. You know, you can do half loads,
quarter loads, and it's basically there for the muzzle flash,
(26:17):
right to imitate the muzzle flash. And that's what I
thought was, Oh, someone got burned. Maybe someone was so
close to the gun and it burned somebody. All of
us didn't really take it too seriously and we're like
half cautious, but we're like, oh someone got hurt. And
we were all of the pyro accent, I mean, the
PA's they just let everybody go back to base camp.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
The kind of like sho shovel you guys away.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
So we did not know. I found out she was
shot until I got home. Tell I was on TV.
Tell I was on TV, and I was like, oh wow,
they did not tell us what happened.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
It seemed like a very hostile work environment between certain
crew members. From what they say, probably because the budget
was so low and they were cut corners and COVID
protocols like all these you know factors. But the camera
people quit like the day before.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And there's some controversy for that too,
because when they left, they took their monitors and all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So that's why she was under the camera.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Under the camera, Yeah, because they took the monitors.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Because she would have been behind a computer screen watching
the shot set up.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, I'll she would have been in a video village, safely,
in a video village watching that.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
That was crazy to me. Imagine the guilt with that.
I think they were walking out because they were not
happy with the safety protocols.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I think a lot of it was they were complaining
about their hotel accommodations. They were complaining about their hotel stay.
And you know, this is a six hundred people. They
always get the labeled as prima donnas, you know, camera people,
and then a lot of is that's true, A lot
of that stereotype's true. But they were complaining about their
hotel stay. I do think it was legitimate. I guess
(27:52):
there's emails, there is factual information that backup. They were
complaining about why done safety at the same time, a
lot of it through different departments. They were complaining about
Hotel Stay. I feel like everything's weird. It was just
like for every action there's a reaction, right, and for
this it was just so many variables, right, like camera
complaining about Hotel Stay, camera complain about gun safety. Other
(28:16):
people complain about gun safety, Art department people complaining. You know,
she had too much of a workload. She said to herself,
I was doing too many wearing too many hats. And
then it's like when producers are trying to cut corners.
You create that environment. I know, all those variables of
what can happen will happen, and unfortunately it did happen.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
No one really knows how real bullets got mixed in.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Oh yeah, that's that's a big no no too, Like
I don't know. I mean that's something for I think
her name's Hannah. I mean that's something for her to
talk about. And then like we're talking about, like said,
there could be sabotage, we don't know. I don't know.
And then for the manufacturer to you know, accidentally put
a bullet that is plausible should be checking that as well,
(29:01):
and then literally have first ad you know Dave Hall's
you should have been checking that too tonight.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Another twist in the Rust movie shooting investigation, as a
new report concludes the trigger of the gun used on
set was indeed pulled.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And then I don't know why Alec Balden is planning
and pulling the trigger on a gun on a rehearsal.
That's a no no. And then they always say that
you never point a gun, even if it's a plastic
toy gun. You never pointed at someone and pull the trigger.
And then you just don't do that. It's not set atiquette.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
There's no one thing. It's crazy. And the thing that
was scary was I think because they shut down the
set and it's now like a crime scene and they
got everybody's holsters because there's other actors shooting guns, and
they did find other live rounds in their whole, so
like it was it could have happened anywhere.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, exactly, And it's and it's one of those things
too where like we're the last to leave the set
because they're like, oh, you guys gotta leave. We're like,
we can't leave. We have cranes up in the air.
We have like these eight teen thousand, eighteen K lights burning.
Someone's gonna get electrocuted. Crane could get blown over if
there's wind. We gotta stay like we got to pull
(30:10):
these cranes down, turn the power off. And so we
were the last ones to leave that set. I have
an Instagram at that time, and I took photos of
like the lighting setup, but I never like tagle I'm
working on a movie, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, just like this is what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, this is always a good lighting setup had today,
as long as they're not like revealing. And it was
private too. It was just to like, you know, my
close friends or whatever. And then I remember that day
people were texting me like oh you okay whatever, and
I was like, what what's going on? And that's when
I remember was like, oh, I posted a picture of
lights and the church on my Instagram and then this
accident happened and people were calling if I was okay,
(30:48):
and my sister family and people were like, oh are
you okay, because you know that Instagram photo I posted,
and I was like, oh crap. I remember like al
Baldwin was just standing by me. He was frantic. He
was changed cigarettes and he was scared, and he's like very,
very anxious about something. I think they basically reshot the
whole movie and it was in Montana.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
That's so interesting because I thought the point was, you know,
her family wanting to see stuff that she.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, me too. I was hoping they use footage that,
like you said, she shot for rememberance, homage to her
or tribute to her. But yeah, Like when I watched
that trailer, I was like, none of this is what
I worked on. All. This is all. It's a whole
new movie and they basically reshot the.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Really, Wow, that's unfortunate. The rush tragedy shows what can
happen when budgets are tight and people don't understand that
safety is a key part of set etiquette.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So when I met you, you know I I call
myself a YouTuber, right, So I bought a camera. I
was like an old Canon T five. I I was
doing little mini docs, right, interviewing people like, oh what
do you do? I make Toelry had a YouTube channel.
Nobody watched it. I think I had like twenty views
every video I put up. Some people tried looking for
it doesn't exist. I took it down. I'm like, but
(32:02):
I did my best. But I thought I was you know,
I thought I was the shit, Like, oh yeah, I
taught myself how to do final cut, pro how to edit.
It's like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna be a badass,
but I'm gonna go to film school. And when I
went to film school, and that's when I realized, like, oh,
there's more to this, and there's more than all this.
There's lighting, there's grip art department, there's set dressers, there's continuity,
(32:23):
there's script supervisors, there's construction, there's transportation, there's crafty, there's catering.
There's so much stuff from the crew. You know, when
the end credits, people leave right they don't watch the
end credits. But there's so many people. There's producers, there's
background people, you know, fake people in the background pretending
they're part of the scene. I was like, I don't know, man,
(32:43):
I was like, this is not like YouTube, you know
what I mean. This is not like we're gonna set
up an aperture light that you paid one hundred dollars for.
Is I know? This is the film industry, Like they
have a camera rental four hundred thousand, you know what
I mean, like the endgame. I do still want to
be a writer director, but I'm glad I went through.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
You know, you know, the whole gamute.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, the gamut. Yeah exactly. I know what to expect
because you know, I have friends that are like, oh,
I want to shoot a film. I was like, what
is your budget? Like have you thought about feeding people?
Have you thought about the location? Have you thought about
like you know, I mean just different things. And I
didn't have that knowledge before, you know, just like oh,
let's just shoot this. But you know a lot of
like reality hits. But that's my next step is I'm
(33:24):
what I told you one of my goals to submit
some stuff to film festivals. I mean, yeah, for sure nationwide.
And but I'm glad I went through because this is
going to be like I've been in the film industry
for like seven eight years now, but with IATZI like
professional you know, film sets going to be like my
fourth year and professional film sets. But I'm glad I
(33:46):
went through this journey so far. Like you said, I
can navigate this with a different mindset because people need
to know about.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
This big things to our guests, Matthew Livingston, who has
recently shifted gears due to the slowdown in the film industry.
He's now working as a camera operator for CBS, Fox
Nexstar Media, covering news stories that feel like making many
documentaries to him. This episode of burn Sage, Burn Bridges
(34:17):
was written and produced by myself, Nicole Garcia, along with
Max Williams and Dylan Fagan. Thank you for listening.
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