September 10, 2025 • 31 mins
A conversation with the first Native Showrunner and a TV writer, where we find out it’s in her blood to tell stories and how she is leading the way for many other Native storytellers.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
When you see Native people in film and television, we're
usually just one note characters written by people who aren't Native.
This is burn Sage Burn Bridges. I'm your host, Nicole Garcia.
I'm Navajo Dinna from Gallup, New Mexico. My clan is
the Ute people, and I'm born for the Mexican people.
(00:24):
My maternal grandfather is of the Mountain Cove people and
my paternal grandfather is from Mexico. Native people have always
been storytellers. It's how we share knowledge and kept our
culture alive. So if you're telling stories today, you're carrying
on what your ancestors have always done.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I just really want Native people to watch the show
and make stuff, you know, and be inspired to make
whatever their art they're making. That to me is like
the most important thing.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
This is a groundbreaking creative force who is reshaping the
television landscape in a way that's long overdue.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hey, Sierra als in check ahead Inchlan che addition Elli.
My name is Sierra Taller an Ellis. I'm a member
of the Nava Nation. I'm Edgewater clan, born for the
Mexican clan Edgewater.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Where are they from?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Uh? My family is from Newcombe New Mexico, so from
like the four corner area of the New Mexico side
near two Gray Hills. That's where my my grandma's side's from.
And then my grandpa Sam Teller, who was Juahaglini. He
was all water flowing together. His people were from White
Rock Sierra.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Is a storyteller and comes from a long line of storytellers.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
When our people were interned at Bosco Rodondo after the
long walk, we were forced into internment in a in
a fort. It was like a messed up Ellis Island.
They gave us all Christian names and census numbers basically
to monitorists. That's why they're so many Yazzi's because I
believe that means like I'm related to them. And then
then so many like Banali's and things like that, because
a lot of that meant like certain relations and stuff.
(02:01):
But they apparently asked my great great grandfather what he
did for a living, and he explained that he was
a storyteller. He's a keeper of the stories of our people.
And so that's why his last name is Teller, and
that's why my middle name is Teller, because my mom
wanted to make sure her maiden name was put in
our names. And then my great grandfather was born in
a wagon on the way back when they were able
(02:23):
to return, and so that was like a huge story
in our family. I would just like perseverance that anytime
you know, you felt like you couldn't do something, your
mom would be like, your great grandpa was born in
a wagon on the way back.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And then of course you become a storyteller.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, I'm a TV writer. I was a showrunner of
a show called Rutherford Falls that aired for two seasons
on Peacock. It was a huge honor to become a
television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional.
It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is
something we've been doing for hundreds of years. And so yeah,
I like always want to stay humble, but like you
(02:58):
carry with you a sense of like purpose and confidence
because like you know, you've been doing it a lot
longer than the other people sometimes that are in the
room with you, because there's like this legacy in your family.
It is cool, Like my family has always just loved
a good story, Like we love gossip. We're such bad
gossips and we do collect stories like we will we
will kind of best story sort of wins, and any
(03:22):
family gathering, it always ends up in us like holding
court and like telling you know, telling tales from when
you're like a little kid to like when you're very old.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Growing up urban, she was influenced by a wide range
of characters that shaped her unique voice.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I grew up in this place called Christopher City when
I lived in Tucson, So my dad was going to
college when I was between like five and ten. When
we lived at this place, that was kind of like
a dorm opportunity for families, so it was most of
like international families and then like single moms, and so
that was sort of the demo that I was raised
with with people from other countries and then just like
single moms figuring it out, and those were sort of
(04:00):
my heroes growing up. My mom is a master na
tapestry weaver. There's like always these random rugs that just
find their way to like the British Museum or like
you know these like random places, and you're like, who
would have guessed? You know, when I was weaving that
in my like crappy apartment, like it would end up,
you know, at the Smithsonian.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I met Sierra just before she moved to LA during
a fellowship program for aspiring film and television creators.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It was such a wild experience because like, I moved
to LA in twenty ten after we met at that
IA fellowship, and then just decided for like a year
to say yes to any invitation because I was definitely
afraid of speaking a public. I was so afraid of
like just my own shadow at that time. But I
was like, I'm here, I'm in La. I'm going to
make the most of this. Who knows how long it'll last,
(04:47):
And so I was like, I'll just say yes to
anything offered to me.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Saying yes provided an opportunity for Sierra to tell an
embarrassing story.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And I laughed so hard that I relieved. Sixty four
ounce as a pub all over Ahmed's forcell and it
was like minutes. I mean it was so long. I
went on a journey. It went from like shock to
like that ecstasy of how good a philosophy, to like shame,
(05:17):
and then like back to the ecstasy.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
This embarrassing story helped start her television career. When we
first met, you were in the program with me and
Santa Fe and then you got into a program and
you started with happy endings. I remember watching that show
and being like, wow, this is hilarious, Like this is
so funny, and of course all the other stuff you've done,
but I always found it funny with happy endings. The
(05:43):
Dave character finding out he was Navajo, one sixteenth Navaja.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
This time of year is always a little bittersweet for me. Well,
Thanksgiving is a real reminder.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Of my people's hardships as.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
An American living with one sixteenth navajoism. I'm going to
use this as an oportunity to educate, perhaps enlighten all
you white people and throw an authentic Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Oh my god, it's so funny. And then he starts
like wearing like, you know, free.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Crazy fringe jackets.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
If I don't show up with a sack of clams,
I'm gonna look like.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
A real dope.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I do like that jacket.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
This jacket for some clams. I mean, this thing is choice.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Plus it's thirty degrees outside.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You're trying to trick me into a very uneven trade.
This story of my people, white people, you who focus
on fifteen sixteenths.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Of a man.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That was funny because like we were trying to come
up with a story like a small seat runner, and
he was the last character left and they were asking me.
They're like, Sara, do people like find out they're like
Native American and like take take it too far? And
I was like, yeah, that's not a crazy story. And
then they were like, well he should be like one
sixteenth you know, and there was like a different tribe
and I was like, no, he should be one sixteenth Navajo,
(06:54):
because like, no one is one sixteenth Napa ho. Like
it's a yeah, you're not legally, you're like this, it's
like a crazy thing to claim. I didn't write that episode,
but I was able to like pitch on it a
bunch and be on set and everything.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
It's for sure your joke though.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean a lot of couple of them work, couple
of them work, but they like they jumped on it.
Like that's what's so great about a writer's room. Was
like once you explain the situation, like all these people
will jump on it and pitch their jokes and stuff
and like and he played it so great, like he
did that thing of like that white guy taking something
too far and being like way too excited about something,
and it was so funny. But it's crazy now because
(07:29):
like now they're everywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Because all the like tests and stuff that you can see.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So crazy, No, I know that was.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So fun to watch and of course like you doing
all the other shows and then finally transitioning from just
a writer to a showrunner, like that is insane. Now
you're like the boss. How how is that? How is
that transition?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I mean I loved it. I loved being the boss.
I've always like whenever I was a kid and like
we play house, I was always the mom. Like even
if I wanted to be a different character, they'd be like,
you're the mom. I'm like, all right, I guess I
am the mom. Like I've always been like super maternal.
So like, I really loved that room of getting to
staff like native writers and no native writers that I'd
worked with for many years in Hollywood and kind of
(08:09):
having us all commune together and workshop these ideas and
come together with like all these sort of fun, exciting
ideas for the show. And then also to really like
bring in all these like native artists that I'd worked
with for many years. The language I speak is is
of commerce. Like all of the artists on our show
got paid, Like there was no like native art that
we didn't buy or pay a licensing fee for. Like
(08:31):
there were a lot of Native artists that were like, wow,
I've been on other TV shows and we get paid
in like exposure, you know. But I was like, no,
like every native artist gets paid on the show. I
was like, I'm not messing around with that. And we
wanted so badly to like I think, to just like
champion those artists and like not take advantage. We had
an amazing Native artist I named Nalie Ball in season
(08:53):
two of Brotherford and she was Janash Meeting, who plays
the lead on that show, was her babysitter, and she
was like, oh with love to put her in the
show for doing before like showcasing a native artist. And
we were able to find like six or seven pieces
of hers from like different collections to bring in make
our own little mini exhibit as a set. And when
she showed up to set for her cameo, Natalie was like,
(09:15):
this is nicer than some of the shows I've had.
She was like, this is so cool. She's like I've
never had this many pieces like in a room together.
One of our actors gonna be o'horn loved her clothes.
She was like, I never get to wear like camel
hair coats, like beautiful sweaters. She's like, I always have
to wear like, you know, kind of red ass stuff
and look also like native jewelry, and like how we
(09:37):
actually dressed with other stuff that's like a mixture of
you know, the native designers and things I always grew
up loving, like nero Ephron and like rom coms where
you had these sort of plucky women who were trying
to figure it out and they were going to these
beautiful locations and wearing these beautiful clothes. And our native
writers who were from the Northeast were also like, this
is how I grew up, this is what my life
(09:58):
was like. So it didn't feel like it was like
a fantasy necessarily, but it was also just something you
never get to see. It was just a really fun
experience to get to bring that specificity, but also like
in that world that I always loved, which is that
kind of rom calm world.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I was like watching it and of course all the
social media and stuff, and I thought it was just
like a huge celebration of not only the show being
you know, you a native showrunner, and then Native writers,
and then of course like the content of the show
having like food trucks with like native food. I was like, wow,
they're really like going for it.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
We were like we have to be on point, like
everything has to be cool, Like please just like make
us look cool, make us look good. Like any director
we had, native or non Native. I was like, we
got of the cool. We have to have jokes, we
have to like, we have to look good, we have
to like win because like we never get this. So
when it was like you know, Dallas gold Tooth character
falling in love with Jenna's character, it's the most romantic,
(11:07):
you know, Tazer Shaviz, who was one of our Native directors,
she was like, I want a sweeping crane shot. I
want like because it's I want the Pixies to play
you know when they kiss. Because it was like it's
like we never get this, you know, we want like
the best version of this stuff because we always have
to compromise and we always have to like skim and
it's like not not today, you know, with sort of
our mantra, like let's just put it all out there
(11:28):
and see what happened.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, the characters were amazing, I mean just Jenna did
so well. You never see anybody like her as a lead.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
You know, we never get that Native women never get that.
Never stuff made by Native people.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Right, right, They're like recast that doesn't right.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, I mean, god bless like trying when we were passing,
you know, for the show. I mean, like the industry
has rewarded a very specific type of Native actor. And
there's so many great Native actors out there, So this
is no dis on Native actors, but like it is
hard to find native woman who's not like a boat
show model, you know, who's not this like kind of
very specific looking type of person. And so just to
(12:06):
find Jana and to see her an average sized woman
who was incredibly funny, incredibly talented, you totally buy. You know,
the chemistry she had with Dustin Ama Dallas, like can
do it all, truly can make you laugh and cry
and fall in love. Like it was such a great
opportunity to like have her just shine and she'd really
never done anything before that and didn't see her as
(12:27):
bev like to see her as somebody completely different reservation.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Does and does that very real too.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So real, Like you just know that girl.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I am that girl.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh, I'm like, but I think I'm the nerd. I
can't even pretend to be cool with Bev. I'm the nerd.
I'm bringing but like I think, like it was just
such a great opportunity, and that was what was fun
of our you know, Reservation Dogs versus our show, was that,
like we had a lot of the same people playing
wildly different characters. Like you really got to see the
range of what these actors could do because there were
(12:56):
multiple opportunities to be on different shows.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And I really was not expecting to like certain characters
that I absolutely love, Like the Terry character. I was like, oh,
I know this man, oh you know, and then like
just his whole story. I just fell in love with
the guy, like just that whole you know, trying to hustle,
but also like I'm doing this to like you know, yeah,
(13:20):
I just thought that whole character was great. It was
very surprising. I wasn't expecting that at all, and not
expecting to like him so much.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Thank you so much. I feel like so much of
that is Michael Grays, Like he is just such a lovable,
wonderful human being that you want to write for all
the time. But I also think like that's native writers,
Like I think almost shows the native casino owner is
a one note and is pretty pretty flat, you know,
and evil and just kind of mustache towarly, even though
Indians kicker mustache is. There's an episode where he wants
(13:49):
his daughter, who's doing incredible beat work, to make money
off of it and sell it. And because he came
from this hustle culture of like you got to defend yourself,
and the only language people understand his money. And that
came from me and Jana in the room because I'm
like an Indian market baby, and she'd be making these incredible,
beautiful pieces and she's like, I'm just gonna give this away,
and I was like, what are you doing? What's like
four hundred dollars? Like I was like gaming out, like
(14:11):
if you make six of those weak and like, and
she's like, yeah, I don't want to do that. That's
like not why I do it, and like it just
didn't make any sense to me. It was like a
really funny like debate back and forth, and someone was like,
I think this is an episode you're terry, and they're like,
who would be the other? Who would be the jan
in the situation and there we're like, oh, you should
have a daughter, like you know, and then we like
game that out and stuff. And then the story of
(14:31):
him getting taken advantage of at the end, that's based
on something that happened to me as a kid when
I was selling made a jewelry as a kid. This
like trader took advantage of me and like kept a
bunch of money of mine and my mom had to
have a huge fight with him and it was crazy.
And I told that story in the room and they
were like that should be his origin story. They're like,
that should be what happened to him. You're Terry, I'm Terrry.
(14:55):
I'm like I'm Reagan, anam Nathan, like I am all
of those characters.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's crazy that way, but yeah, I am kind of
a secretary.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
The first season was great, and then the second season
just took off, Like it felt like you guys were
so more loose with the comedy and like looking into
like us really and I that's probably so freaking heartbreaking
when like I know, it.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Was like like second seasons, you like you know what
everyone can do, you like know where you want to go.
You feel so like and that really was like I
think the direction the show would have gone into a
sort of that kind of parks and rec like hangout
show of people just living their lives and having problems,
and it was. It was such a fun show. It's
my like life's regret that I don't get to write
for those characters because I love them. I really did.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
When you worked on like other shows, you said, you
always had to explain yourself. You always had to like
be the one to be like this is how it goes,
or you know, explaining like your card basically.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, Like sometimes it was it was like people wanted
to know things and have questions like happy endings, like
you know, for the for the day of story or something.
Sometimes it would be your background. It came up a
lot at Superstore when I wrote on that show, because
I had so many families who members who worked at
Target and worked at Walmart and stuff, and like the
people who created that show weren't like people who shopped
(16:11):
at Walmart. So sometimes like I would have to come
with like details from my life and be like that's
not how people do that, Like that's not what happens
at Walmart, or like that's not always you know this
sort of thing, and so like so like that oddly
was like my superpower on that show was that I'd
come from a lot of people who worked those types
of jobs and who shopped there and who knew Walmart
is like those big box stores is like the community center,
(16:34):
you know where we would say like this is where
people drop off their kids, or this is where people
like we're teenagers go to hang after school and that
sort of thing, and so we were able to kind
of create stories. But it was nice because Superstore was
one of the few one of the first shows where
my cousins or my my cousin's kids would be like,
we watched Superstore, we watched your show because like they
had worked at those stores and like felt like they were.
(16:57):
There was a god real kinship to watching that show,
which was great.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
What was the difference between being and like the more
predominantly non native writing circles as opposed to like more
predominantly native circles of writing.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I think like we had five or six Native writers
the first year, and like Sam Amount, we always had
half or a little more than half. There was no
Indians one oh one. There was no like having to
explain stuff to people, like the non native writers just
had to like catch up and then I didn't have
to do everything where like like like this like the
second episode was my episode and I had pre written it,
(17:33):
and they were like, well, before this could happen. One
of the Native writers was like, they'd have to go
to council first and like get counsel on board. They
couldn't just like go and do this, and I was like,
oh shit, you're right. They would have to go to council.
And then like of course non nat writ it's like
what's counseling, They're like okay, like explaining it to them
and they're like, oh, that's a great episode. So it
was fun to see like Native people pitching from their
lives and then like seasoned comedy writers pitching and so
(17:56):
excited to see a new story, like so excited to
have like a new to pitch on, and then the
Native writers pitching their comedy on top of that, and
it was like it was like this really great, Like
we were decorating a cake together and everything was amazing
on it, and it was really everyone was like feeding
off of each other, and the Native writers were learning,
like because some of them had never worked in TV before,
like structure and like all this stuff from the non
(18:18):
native writers, and the non native writers were learning about
like you know what we were about. But also like
a writer who was black on our show was like, oh,
we have that too, Like we do that too. Like
the Latino writer on our show was like, oh we
have that like or in the gig community, like that
is totally something we deal with. It really was like
this weird like love fest, and there were times when
like people people were there was debate, and even within
(18:39):
the Native writers there was debate because we're not all
the same people, right, We're not a monolith. So we
were all from different regions. Some of us were from
the Reds, some of us weren't. But what was great
was like if there was a topic that we were
kind of arguing about, then the room would be like, oh,
this is an episode like if the Native writers are
debating on something, we should chase that or we should
look at that or about that. When you see like
(19:02):
scenes with like different Native actors having conversations and debating
what sept it's because like we in the room are
doing that and that was really cool. Like that was
a really fun ability to have like all these native
voices in a room, and then to be able to
dramatize that because you had a show with so many
native actors, and then you had like a native director
who could like usher that through and didn't minimize certain things,
(19:23):
and then you had a native composers could like write
music to back that up.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I also wanted to ask you about that whole yellow
Stone tailor sharing, like the whole you're getting thrown in. Well,
Brotherford Fall is getting thrown in forever.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Heard of that show?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
That show, Well, you've done a lot of damage to them.
Apparently apparently be rich people couldn't get their Emmys because
you know, you made a mock show of their show.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
My World's is better than an Emmy. My World's great
ast achievement was keeping em.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
How do you like that too?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Oh? I run on spite?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah for sure, But that was so funny and like,
how did that even equate? I didn't get it. I'm like,
why why is that.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No idea for me? The Adirondack, you know, was just
like our response to native representation, like how it feels
to sort of be depicted and not have any ownership
over what's being said about you and having to like
kind of pay a fee for something that you had
no control over. You're just trying to figure out how
to combat it. Really, So when we did their first
(20:43):
season of Rutherford Falls, you know a lot of the
questions we got from the press was about representation and
then like what our thoughts were and what our thoughts
were on these things and stuff, and we were so
specific about the region and making sure all the art
was accurate and making sure all of the like the
language was accurate and all these things and these little
details and making sure there were like native designers and
(21:04):
that you know, we were very big on like most
things came from the Northeast, and then like clothes and
things were fine, but like there was very little turquoise
on our show. There was very little stuff that you
wouldn't find like the Northeast because that's where it was set.
And we would always kind of get frustrated with other
shows that featured native people where it didn't feel like
they did any of that research or like had any
(21:25):
of those problems and they just kind of did whatever,
and we would be like, man, if we were on
you know, X y Z show, like we wouldn't be
putting in all this work right now, this is just
like a room joke. And then we were talking about
how how much like Indians love Yellowstone, like totally the
most embarrassing thing about that show is that much Indians
love that show and were Yellowstone, our cousins would be
(21:47):
so impressed.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
You know, they're like, you work on what not yellow Stone?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
No? What is that? I don't have that channel? Do
you have a Yellowstone? We were on the same platform,
like at the time, Yellowstone was on Pea Fact, and
so we were saying, like, oh, they're should be a
show that like all their parents loved to watch, and
so we just kept name dropping the show at Arondack
season three and everyone's saying like, oh yeah, like at
around Back, you know. And I remember like on Insecure,
they had like a show that was sort of like
(22:13):
a parody of like a Shonda rhime show that everyone.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Followed, Oh yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Called Do North And that was a room bit between
a white writer and a black writer and Insecure where
they were saying like, oh, they would have they would
be these characters on a Shonda show called Do North
or I don't if it's a shan show, but like
on a drama called Do North, and it's like they
would reenact, you know, it was like a room bit,
but then they turned it into a show, and so
I was like, when we were pitching ideas for season two,
(22:39):
I was like, I want Reagan and Terry to be
cultural consultants on a bad drama called it And we
had to come up with a name, and someone pitched
at Irondack and we're like, in, everyone's parents should love
that show, like Terry should love that show, like all
the older natives should love the show. And so then
we created this like fake drama and it was so
(23:00):
funny because that week all of our costumes and makeup
and props people had the easiest time. They're like, this
is the easiest wee we we've ever had because we
could just go to like the Paramount props department and
pull all this random stuff because we don't have to
follow any of the rules that we normally have, Like
we could just like make it all a hodgepodge and
like make it some weird like craft basket for Michael's.
(23:22):
So we did it. We thought it was so funny,
and then there was like this article from Deadline which
is like a big trades magazine that said, like, you know,
why is Taylor Sheridan getting snubbed by the Academy, Like
why didn't he get his Emmy nominations? His shows are
more popular than all these other shows, and so they
were like it didn't help that, Like they were skewered
(23:43):
on Brutherford Falls with the show Adirondack, and we were like,
what you're blaming us, Like you're blaming the Indians, Like
it's our faulting against the Emy nominations, Like that show
has so much money and like so much press and
so much everything. We have nothing. We could barely get
a billboard, like are you kidding me? We posted about it,
me and Jana and the other Native folks on the show,
(24:04):
and then within like a couple hours, there were all
these Native memes, like Native Twitter took it over instead
of doing all these memes of us ruining Sheridan's life
closed oufn thing.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
But then he kept getting interviewed and kept saying what
a victim he was, and talked a lot about like
how he's never gotten his due even though he like
has so much money and like a ranch where he
like films everything, and then claimed that like the Violence
Against Women Act and the Missy murdered Indigenous Relatives legislation
was passed because of him, and you're taking credit for this,
(24:37):
and so that's when.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Like a lot of people just got straight up mad.
It was beyond a joke at that point. It was like, dude,
what the heck are you talking about? Like maybe your
hat's too tight, bro, but like, you gotta freaking what
are you doing.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Unfortunately, after two seasons, NBC canceled Rutherford Falls. It made
me so upset that like the storyline of the rom
com brood and then it ended. I'm like, I know,
it's like my so called life all over again.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Just no one makes TV because it's fair, you know.
So it's not like in a perfect world would be
on ten seasons. But yeah, it's a vennor for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Even though we remain largely unscene and there's still little
data on what we consume, we are still able to
influence change with our stories. If we can get people
in the positions you're in, I think it only creates
good content. It sucks that it got canceled after Rutherford
Falls ended. Did you kind of get an idea of
why or did they explain to you any of that.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
We premiered during COVID and Peacock with such a brand
new network. Peacock as a platform was supposed to launch
off of the Olympics to get subscribers, and then there
was like barely an Olympics because of COVID, and so
really they had like a kind of false start, and
we were like one of the first shows to come
out on the platform. And so even if like the
numbers were maybe not what they had hoped for, it's
(25:59):
not like there was like a bunch of other shows
that were thriving. Like literally we were canceled in a
few months later, I think poker Face came out and
Peacock started to kind of click I think a little
bit more for viewers. It would have been really nice
to kind of have that runway of like Dark Ones
and Red Dogs, and then our show came out and
like people were like primed, you know, whereas like we
were first. There's a lot of kind of complications that
(26:21):
come with that of having to kind of navigate those
waters and stuff. Broad running Water, who was an incredible
producer and was director of the Native program at Sentence
from many years, talks a lot about each platform sees
me not as I am. So he was like, on Amazon,
I am a black woman based on what I watch,
He's like, I'm probably like upper middle class Latino. On Netflix,
(26:43):
probably like an Asian woman on this channel where I
watch Korean dramas and things. I don't exist as like
a demographic in these spaces because there aren't enough like
data points to point to me. So we don't have
the numbers where we can like move content or dictate
with it's pick for what doesn't. In the same way,
Native people are kind of the deciding vote in a
(27:06):
lot of swing states for like the actual like political elections.
Like because we're in Montana, because we're in New Mexico,
because we're in Arizona, because we're in Colorado, we actually
like tip the scales. So I think that based on
where we are, we actually do have an audience power
and we have some pull, and so I think that's
going to translate in my mind to like other arenas.
(27:27):
Like there was a really incredible data point that I
think Nielsen released after res Dogs came out that you
saw Hoolu subscriptions go up like in Oklahoma, in Arizona,
in New Mexico. Dark Ones was on, Like it was
a huge premiere for AMC. AMC Plus is like a
small network. In these smaller platforms, something hitting you actually
(27:49):
have like a high hit rate, and so I do
think the algorithm of it all is getting better. I
think what's harder is promoting to us. You have to
be really strategic about what you're doing. It's different than
a show about six white gals on the town, you know,
like that can kind of be sort of advertised out
to everyone, and you really have to be very strategic.
(28:10):
I think in the promotion. I remember the first season
of Insecure, Easterray like went to HBCUs like went specifically
to those places to promote her show and was like,
we have to go into community and find these people
to make sure they know our show exists. That's what
I really would love to do. Go to like travel colleges,
go to specific places and like have screenings and specific
places to make sure people know we exist. One of
(28:32):
the things we had to explain to like Peacock Marketing
was like, we're still on Facebook, where like Indians never
left Facebook. For a lot of like marketing teams, Facebook
is like a dead platform. They won't create content, not
for Indian country, but not for any country. Any country
that's where you go to like see your stuff. So
we had to find ways to make interroads at Facebook
because we were like, this is where the audience is.
(28:54):
What helped was like having like an organization like Illuminative,
like explain that to them and create content specifically for
those platforms. It was really hard to explain like what
Peacock was to people, and then on top of that
be like and there's this Native American sitcom. People are
like what, Like there's somebody whats to goose sentences.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Although the show did not enjoy a long life, Siarah
believes it will make the process easier for future shows.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
We were technically like the first Native American sitcom in
the United States. I was technically the first Native showrunner.
And at the time, there was no res Dogs, there
was no Dark Wins, like, none of that stuff had
come out. So people weren't really comfortable with the concept
of this. Everyone was really distrusting of like what is this,
Like what are you doing? We were sort of first
on the beach, you know, of that stuff, and we
had to kind of be like, I swear it's gonna
(29:41):
be good because like it never is, so like we
never blamed anyone for being suspicious because I was like, yeah,
of course you would, like how could you not? The
pump has been primed a little bit now, and I
think the next person to do this is going to
have a much easier time because of what we did.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Sierra is aware that most Native talent is still underrepresented,
and it is working hard to open more doors.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I will say, like I'm trying to get everybody in,
Like I feel like I'm like, I'm I do feel
that responsibility in the best way. All I can do
is what I'm good at, you know what I mean.
And I'm not good at everything, so like just comedy
silly version of me is like the best version of me.
But I feel like that's why it's so important to
have so many different Native people come in and tell
their stories. It is because it's everyone gets to do
(30:23):
what they're great at, you know, And that should be
the goal, not just to make the stories that they
want us to make. But like what's so great about
Red Bugs and Rotherford is like we're getting to make
the things we've always been dang to make. And I
think there's something really beautiful about that.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
This episode of Burn Stage, Burn Bridges was written and
produced by myself along with Max Williams and Dylan Fagan.
Additional thanks to the Next Up Program Special Thanks to
our guests Sierra Teller or Nellis. Check out some of
her work on show like Happy Endings, Superstore, and of course,
Rutherford Falls. Remember to listen and subscribe. New episodes come
(31:08):
out every Wednesday. Thank you for listening.
When you see Native people in film and television, we're
usually just one note characters written by people who aren't Native.
This is burn Sage Burn Bridges. I'm your host, Nicole Garcia.
I'm Navajo Dinna from Gallup, New Mexico. My clan is
the Ute people, and I'm born for the Mexican people.
(00:24):
My maternal grandfather is of the Mountain Cove people and
my paternal grandfather is from Mexico. Native people have always
been storytellers. It's how we share knowledge and kept our
culture alive. So if you're telling stories today, you're carrying
on what your ancestors have always done.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I just really want Native people to watch the show
and make stuff, you know, and be inspired to make
whatever their art they're making. That to me is like
the most important thing.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
This is a groundbreaking creative force who is reshaping the
television landscape in a way that's long overdue.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hey, Sierra als in check ahead Inchlan che addition Elli.
My name is Sierra Taller an Ellis. I'm a member
of the Nava Nation. I'm Edgewater clan, born for the
Mexican clan Edgewater.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Where are they from?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Uh? My family is from Newcombe New Mexico, so from
like the four corner area of the New Mexico side
near two Gray Hills. That's where my my grandma's side's from.
And then my grandpa Sam Teller, who was Juahaglini. He
was all water flowing together. His people were from White
Rock Sierra.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Is a storyteller and comes from a long line of storytellers.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
When our people were interned at Bosco Rodondo after the
long walk, we were forced into internment in a in
a fort. It was like a messed up Ellis Island.
They gave us all Christian names and census numbers basically
to monitorists. That's why they're so many Yazzi's because I
believe that means like I'm related to them. And then
then so many like Banali's and things like that, because
a lot of that meant like certain relations and stuff.
(02:01):
But they apparently asked my great great grandfather what he
did for a living, and he explained that he was
a storyteller. He's a keeper of the stories of our people.
And so that's why his last name is Teller, and
that's why my middle name is Teller, because my mom
wanted to make sure her maiden name was put in
our names. And then my great grandfather was born in
a wagon on the way back when they were able
(02:23):
to return, and so that was like a huge story
in our family. I would just like perseverance that anytime
you know, you felt like you couldn't do something, your
mom would be like, your great grandpa was born in
a wagon on the way back.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And then of course you become a storyteller.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, I'm a TV writer. I was a showrunner of
a show called Rutherford Falls that aired for two seasons
on Peacock. It was a huge honor to become a
television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional.
It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is
something we've been doing for hundreds of years. And so yeah,
I like always want to stay humble, but like you
(02:58):
carry with you a sense of like purpose and confidence
because like you know, you've been doing it a lot
longer than the other people sometimes that are in the
room with you, because there's like this legacy in your family.
It is cool, Like my family has always just loved
a good story, Like we love gossip. We're such bad
gossips and we do collect stories like we will we
will kind of best story sort of wins, and any
(03:22):
family gathering, it always ends up in us like holding
court and like telling you know, telling tales from when
you're like a little kid to like when you're very old.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Growing up urban, she was influenced by a wide range
of characters that shaped her unique voice.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I grew up in this place called Christopher City when
I lived in Tucson, So my dad was going to
college when I was between like five and ten. When
we lived at this place, that was kind of like
a dorm opportunity for families, so it was most of
like international families and then like single moms, and so
that was sort of the demo that I was raised
with with people from other countries and then just like
single moms figuring it out, and those were sort of
(04:00):
my heroes growing up. My mom is a master na
tapestry weaver. There's like always these random rugs that just
find their way to like the British Museum or like
you know these like random places, and you're like, who
would have guessed? You know, when I was weaving that
in my like crappy apartment, like it would end up,
you know, at the Smithsonian.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I met Sierra just before she moved to LA during
a fellowship program for aspiring film and television creators.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It was such a wild experience because like, I moved
to LA in twenty ten after we met at that
IA fellowship, and then just decided for like a year
to say yes to any invitation because I was definitely
afraid of speaking a public. I was so afraid of
like just my own shadow at that time. But I
was like, I'm here, I'm in La. I'm going to
make the most of this. Who knows how long it'll last,
(04:47):
And so I was like, I'll just say yes to
anything offered to me.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Saying yes provided an opportunity for Sierra to tell an
embarrassing story.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And I laughed so hard that I relieved. Sixty four
ounce as a pub all over Ahmed's forcell and it
was like minutes. I mean it was so long. I
went on a journey. It went from like shock to
like that ecstasy of how good a philosophy, to like shame,
(05:17):
and then like back to the ecstasy.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
This embarrassing story helped start her television career. When we
first met, you were in the program with me and
Santa Fe and then you got into a program and
you started with happy endings. I remember watching that show
and being like, wow, this is hilarious, Like this is
so funny, and of course all the other stuff you've done,
but I always found it funny with happy endings. The
(05:43):
Dave character finding out he was Navajo, one sixteenth Navaja.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
This time of year is always a little bittersweet for me. Well,
Thanksgiving is a real reminder.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Of my people's hardships as.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
An American living with one sixteenth navajoism. I'm going to
use this as an oportunity to educate, perhaps enlighten all
you white people and throw an authentic Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Oh my god, it's so funny. And then he starts
like wearing like, you know, free.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Crazy fringe jackets.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
If I don't show up with a sack of clams,
I'm gonna look like.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
A real dope.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
I do like that jacket.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
This jacket for some clams. I mean, this thing is choice.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Plus it's thirty degrees outside.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You're trying to trick me into a very uneven trade.
This story of my people, white people, you who focus
on fifteen sixteenths.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Of a man.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That was funny because like we were trying to come
up with a story like a small seat runner, and
he was the last character left and they were asking me.
They're like, Sara, do people like find out they're like
Native American and like take take it too far? And
I was like, yeah, that's not a crazy story. And
then they were like, well he should be like one
sixteenth you know, and there was like a different tribe
and I was like, no, he should be one sixteenth Navajo,
(06:54):
because like, no one is one sixteenth Napa ho. Like
it's a yeah, you're not legally, you're like this, it's
like a crazy thing to claim. I didn't write that episode,
but I was able to like pitch on it a
bunch and be on set and everything.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
It's for sure your joke though.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I mean a lot of couple of them work, couple
of them work, but they like they jumped on it.
Like that's what's so great about a writer's room. Was
like once you explain the situation, like all these people
will jump on it and pitch their jokes and stuff
and like and he played it so great, like he
did that thing of like that white guy taking something
too far and being like way too excited about something,
and it was so funny. But it's crazy now because
(07:29):
like now they're everywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Because all the like tests and stuff that you can see.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So crazy, No, I know that was.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So fun to watch and of course like you doing
all the other shows and then finally transitioning from just
a writer to a showrunner, like that is insane. Now
you're like the boss. How how is that? How is
that transition?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I mean I loved it. I loved being the boss.
I've always like whenever I was a kid and like
we play house, I was always the mom. Like even
if I wanted to be a different character, they'd be like,
you're the mom. I'm like, all right, I guess I
am the mom. Like I've always been like super maternal.
So like, I really loved that room of getting to
staff like native writers and no native writers that I'd
worked with for many years in Hollywood and kind of
(08:09):
having us all commune together and workshop these ideas and
come together with like all these sort of fun, exciting
ideas for the show. And then also to really like
bring in all these like native artists that I'd worked
with for many years. The language I speak is is
of commerce. Like all of the artists on our show
got paid, Like there was no like native art that
we didn't buy or pay a licensing fee for. Like
(08:31):
there were a lot of Native artists that were like, wow,
I've been on other TV shows and we get paid
in like exposure, you know. But I was like, no,
like every native artist gets paid on the show. I
was like, I'm not messing around with that. And we
wanted so badly to like I think, to just like
champion those artists and like not take advantage. We had
an amazing Native artist I named Nalie Ball in season
(08:53):
two of Brotherford and she was Janash Meeting, who plays
the lead on that show, was her babysitter, and she
was like, oh with love to put her in the
show for doing before like showcasing a native artist. And
we were able to find like six or seven pieces
of hers from like different collections to bring in make
our own little mini exhibit as a set. And when
she showed up to set for her cameo, Natalie was like,
(09:15):
this is nicer than some of the shows I've had.
She was like, this is so cool. She's like I've
never had this many pieces like in a room together.
One of our actors gonna be o'horn loved her clothes.
She was like, I never get to wear like camel
hair coats, like beautiful sweaters. She's like, I always have
to wear like, you know, kind of red ass stuff
and look also like native jewelry, and like how we
(09:37):
actually dressed with other stuff that's like a mixture of
you know, the native designers and things I always grew
up loving, like nero Ephron and like rom coms where
you had these sort of plucky women who were trying
to figure it out and they were going to these
beautiful locations and wearing these beautiful clothes. And our native
writers who were from the Northeast were also like, this
is how I grew up, this is what my life
(09:58):
was like. So it didn't feel like it was like
a fantasy necessarily, but it was also just something you
never get to see. It was just a really fun
experience to get to bring that specificity, but also like
in that world that I always loved, which is that
kind of rom calm world.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I was like watching it and of course all the
social media and stuff, and I thought it was just
like a huge celebration of not only the show being
you know, you a native showrunner, and then Native writers,
and then of course like the content of the show
having like food trucks with like native food. I was like, wow,
they're really like going for it.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
We were like we have to be on point, like
everything has to be cool, Like please just like make
us look cool, make us look good. Like any director
we had, native or non Native. I was like, we
got of the cool. We have to have jokes, we
have to like, we have to look good, we have
to like win because like we never get this. So
when it was like you know, Dallas gold Tooth character
falling in love with Jenna's character, it's the most romantic,
(11:07):
you know, Tazer Shaviz, who was one of our Native directors,
she was like, I want a sweeping crane shot. I
want like because it's I want the Pixies to play
you know when they kiss. Because it was like it's
like we never get this, you know, we want like
the best version of this stuff because we always have
to compromise and we always have to like skim and
it's like not not today, you know, with sort of
our mantra, like let's just put it all out there
(11:28):
and see what happened.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah, the characters were amazing, I mean just Jenna did
so well. You never see anybody like her as a lead.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
You know, we never get that Native women never get that.
Never stuff made by Native people.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Right, right, They're like recast that doesn't right.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, I mean, god bless like trying when we were passing,
you know, for the show. I mean, like the industry
has rewarded a very specific type of Native actor. And
there's so many great Native actors out there, So this
is no dis on Native actors, but like it is
hard to find native woman who's not like a boat
show model, you know, who's not this like kind of
very specific looking type of person. And so just to
(12:06):
find Jana and to see her an average sized woman
who was incredibly funny, incredibly talented, you totally buy. You know,
the chemistry she had with Dustin Ama Dallas, like can
do it all, truly can make you laugh and cry
and fall in love. Like it was such a great
opportunity to like have her just shine and she'd really
never done anything before that and didn't see her as
(12:27):
bev like to see her as somebody completely different reservation.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Does and does that very real too.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So real, Like you just know that girl.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I am that girl.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh, I'm like, but I think I'm the nerd. I
can't even pretend to be cool with Bev. I'm the nerd.
I'm bringing but like I think, like it was just
such a great opportunity, and that was what was fun
of our you know, Reservation Dogs versus our show, was that,
like we had a lot of the same people playing
wildly different characters. Like you really got to see the
range of what these actors could do because there were
(12:56):
multiple opportunities to be on different shows.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And I really was not expecting to like certain characters
that I absolutely love, Like the Terry character. I was like, oh,
I know this man, oh you know, and then like
just his whole story. I just fell in love with
the guy, like just that whole you know, trying to hustle,
but also like I'm doing this to like you know, yeah,
(13:20):
I just thought that whole character was great. It was
very surprising. I wasn't expecting that at all, and not
expecting to like him so much.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Thank you so much. I feel like so much of
that is Michael Grays, Like he is just such a lovable,
wonderful human being that you want to write for all
the time. But I also think like that's native writers,
Like I think almost shows the native casino owner is
a one note and is pretty pretty flat, you know,
and evil and just kind of mustache towarly, even though
Indians kicker mustache is. There's an episode where he wants
(13:49):
his daughter, who's doing incredible beat work, to make money
off of it and sell it. And because he came
from this hustle culture of like you got to defend yourself,
and the only language people understand his money. And that
came from me and Jana in the room because I'm
like an Indian market baby, and she'd be making these incredible,
beautiful pieces and she's like, I'm just gonna give this away,
and I was like, what are you doing? What's like
four hundred dollars? Like I was like gaming out, like
(14:11):
if you make six of those weak and like, and
she's like, yeah, I don't want to do that. That's
like not why I do it, and like it just
didn't make any sense to me. It was like a
really funny like debate back and forth, and someone was like,
I think this is an episode you're terry, and they're like,
who would be the other? Who would be the jan
in the situation and there we're like, oh, you should
have a daughter, like you know, and then we like
game that out and stuff. And then the story of
(14:31):
him getting taken advantage of at the end, that's based
on something that happened to me as a kid when
I was selling made a jewelry as a kid. This
like trader took advantage of me and like kept a
bunch of money of mine and my mom had to
have a huge fight with him and it was crazy.
And I told that story in the room and they
were like that should be his origin story. They're like,
that should be what happened to him. You're Terry, I'm Terrry.
(14:55):
I'm like I'm Reagan, anam Nathan, like I am all
of those characters.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
It is.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's crazy that way, but yeah, I am kind of
a secretary.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
The first season was great, and then the second season
just took off, Like it felt like you guys were
so more loose with the comedy and like looking into
like us really and I that's probably so freaking heartbreaking
when like I know, it.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Was like like second seasons, you like you know what
everyone can do, you like know where you want to go.
You feel so like and that really was like I
think the direction the show would have gone into a
sort of that kind of parks and rec like hangout
show of people just living their lives and having problems,
and it was. It was such a fun show. It's
my like life's regret that I don't get to write
for those characters because I love them. I really did.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
When you worked on like other shows, you said, you
always had to explain yourself. You always had to like
be the one to be like this is how it goes,
or you know, explaining like your card basically.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah, Like sometimes it was it was like people wanted
to know things and have questions like happy endings, like
you know, for the for the day of story or something.
Sometimes it would be your background. It came up a
lot at Superstore when I wrote on that show, because
I had so many families who members who worked at
Target and worked at Walmart and stuff, and like the
people who created that show weren't like people who shopped
(16:11):
at Walmart. So sometimes like I would have to come
with like details from my life and be like that's
not how people do that, Like that's not what happens
at Walmart, or like that's not always you know this
sort of thing, and so like so like that oddly
was like my superpower on that show was that I'd
come from a lot of people who worked those types
of jobs and who shopped there and who knew Walmart
is like those big box stores is like the community center,
(16:34):
you know where we would say like this is where
people drop off their kids, or this is where people
like we're teenagers go to hang after school and that
sort of thing, and so we were able to kind
of create stories. But it was nice because Superstore was
one of the few one of the first shows where
my cousins or my my cousin's kids would be like,
we watched Superstore, we watched your show because like they
had worked at those stores and like felt like they were.
(16:57):
There was a god real kinship to watching that show,
which was great.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
What was the difference between being and like the more
predominantly non native writing circles as opposed to like more
predominantly native circles of writing.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I think like we had five or six Native writers
the first year, and like Sam Amount, we always had
half or a little more than half. There was no
Indians one oh one. There was no like having to
explain stuff to people, like the non native writers just
had to like catch up and then I didn't have
to do everything where like like like this like the
second episode was my episode and I had pre written it,
(17:33):
and they were like, well, before this could happen. One
of the Native writers was like, they'd have to go
to council first and like get counsel on board. They
couldn't just like go and do this, and I was like,
oh shit, you're right. They would have to go to council.
And then like of course non nat writ it's like
what's counseling, They're like okay, like explaining it to them
and they're like, oh, that's a great episode. So it
was fun to see like Native people pitching from their
lives and then like seasoned comedy writers pitching and so
(17:56):
excited to see a new story, like so excited to
have like a new to pitch on, and then the
Native writers pitching their comedy on top of that, and
it was like it was like this really great, Like
we were decorating a cake together and everything was amazing
on it, and it was really everyone was like feeding
off of each other, and the Native writers were learning,
like because some of them had never worked in TV before,
like structure and like all this stuff from the non
(18:18):
native writers, and the non native writers were learning about
like you know what we were about. But also like
a writer who was black on our show was like, oh,
we have that too, Like we do that too. Like
the Latino writer on our show was like, oh we
have that like or in the gig community, like that
is totally something we deal with. It really was like
this weird like love fest, and there were times when
like people people were there was debate, and even within
(18:39):
the Native writers there was debate because we're not all
the same people, right, We're not a monolith. So we
were all from different regions. Some of us were from
the Reds, some of us weren't. But what was great
was like if there was a topic that we were
kind of arguing about, then the room would be like, oh,
this is an episode like if the Native writers are
debating on something, we should chase that or we should
look at that or about that. When you see like
(19:02):
scenes with like different Native actors having conversations and debating
what sept it's because like we in the room are
doing that and that was really cool. Like that was
a really fun ability to have like all these native
voices in a room, and then to be able to
dramatize that because you had a show with so many
native actors, and then you had like a native director
who could like usher that through and didn't minimize certain things,
(19:23):
and then you had a native composers could like write
music to back that up.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I also wanted to ask you about that whole yellow
Stone tailor sharing, like the whole you're getting thrown in. Well,
Brotherford Fall is getting thrown in forever.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Heard of that show?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
That show, Well, you've done a lot of damage to them.
Apparently apparently be rich people couldn't get their Emmys because
you know, you made a mock show of their show.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
My World's is better than an Emmy. My World's great
ast achievement was keeping em.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
How do you like that too?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Oh? I run on spite?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah for sure, But that was so funny and like,
how did that even equate? I didn't get it. I'm like,
why why is that.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
No idea for me? The Adirondack, you know, was just
like our response to native representation, like how it feels
to sort of be depicted and not have any ownership
over what's being said about you and having to like
kind of pay a fee for something that you had
no control over. You're just trying to figure out how
to combat it. Really, So when we did their first
(20:43):
season of Rutherford Falls, you know a lot of the
questions we got from the press was about representation and
then like what our thoughts were and what our thoughts
were on these things and stuff, and we were so
specific about the region and making sure all the art
was accurate and making sure all of the like the
language was accurate and all these things and these little
details and making sure there were like native designers and
(21:04):
that you know, we were very big on like most
things came from the Northeast, and then like clothes and
things were fine, but like there was very little turquoise
on our show. There was very little stuff that you
wouldn't find like the Northeast because that's where it was set.
And we would always kind of get frustrated with other
shows that featured native people where it didn't feel like
they did any of that research or like had any
(21:25):
of those problems and they just kind of did whatever,
and we would be like, man, if we were on
you know, X y Z show, like we wouldn't be
putting in all this work right now, this is just
like a room joke. And then we were talking about
how how much like Indians love Yellowstone, like totally the
most embarrassing thing about that show is that much Indians
love that show and were Yellowstone, our cousins would be
(21:47):
so impressed.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
You know, they're like, you work on what not yellow Stone?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
No? What is that? I don't have that channel? Do
you have a Yellowstone? We were on the same platform,
like at the time, Yellowstone was on Pea Fact, and
so we were saying, like, oh, they're should be a
show that like all their parents loved to watch, and
so we just kept name dropping the show at Arondack
season three and everyone's saying like, oh yeah, like at
around Back, you know. And I remember like on Insecure,
they had like a show that was sort of like
(22:13):
a parody of like a Shonda rhime show that everyone.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Followed, Oh yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Called Do North And that was a room bit between
a white writer and a black writer and Insecure where
they were saying like, oh, they would have they would
be these characters on a Shonda show called Do North
or I don't if it's a shan show, but like
on a drama called Do North, and it's like they
would reenact, you know, it was like a room bit,
but then they turned it into a show, and so
I was like, when we were pitching ideas for season two,
(22:39):
I was like, I want Reagan and Terry to be
cultural consultants on a bad drama called it And we
had to come up with a name, and someone pitched
at Irondack and we're like, in, everyone's parents should love
that show, like Terry should love that show, like all
the older natives should love the show. And so then
we created this like fake drama and it was so
(23:00):
funny because that week all of our costumes and makeup
and props people had the easiest time. They're like, this
is the easiest wee we we've ever had because we
could just go to like the Paramount props department and
pull all this random stuff because we don't have to
follow any of the rules that we normally have, Like
we could just like make it all a hodgepodge and
like make it some weird like craft basket for Michael's.
(23:22):
So we did it. We thought it was so funny,
and then there was like this article from Deadline which
is like a big trades magazine that said, like, you know,
why is Taylor Sheridan getting snubbed by the Academy, Like
why didn't he get his Emmy nominations? His shows are
more popular than all these other shows, and so they
were like it didn't help that, Like they were skewered
(23:43):
on Brutherford Falls with the show Adirondack, and we were like,
what you're blaming us, Like you're blaming the Indians, Like
it's our faulting against the Emy nominations, Like that show
has so much money and like so much press and
so much everything. We have nothing. We could barely get
a billboard, like are you kidding me? We posted about it,
me and Jana and the other Native folks on the show,
(24:04):
and then within like a couple hours, there were all
these Native memes, like Native Twitter took it over instead
of doing all these memes of us ruining Sheridan's life
closed oufn thing.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
But then he kept getting interviewed and kept saying what
a victim he was, and talked a lot about like
how he's never gotten his due even though he like
has so much money and like a ranch where he
like films everything, and then claimed that like the Violence
Against Women Act and the Missy murdered Indigenous Relatives legislation
was passed because of him, and you're taking credit for this,
(24:37):
and so that's when.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Like a lot of people just got straight up mad.
It was beyond a joke at that point. It was like, dude,
what the heck are you talking about? Like maybe your
hat's too tight, bro, but like, you gotta freaking what
are you doing.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Unfortunately, after two seasons, NBC canceled Rutherford Falls. It made
me so upset that like the storyline of the rom
com brood and then it ended. I'm like, I know,
it's like my so called life all over again.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Just no one makes TV because it's fair, you know.
So it's not like in a perfect world would be
on ten seasons. But yeah, it's a vennor for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Even though we remain largely unscene and there's still little
data on what we consume, we are still able to
influence change with our stories. If we can get people
in the positions you're in, I think it only creates
good content. It sucks that it got canceled after Rutherford
Falls ended. Did you kind of get an idea of
why or did they explain to you any of that.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
We premiered during COVID and Peacock with such a brand
new network. Peacock as a platform was supposed to launch
off of the Olympics to get subscribers, and then there
was like barely an Olympics because of COVID, and so
really they had like a kind of false start, and
we were like one of the first shows to come
out on the platform. And so even if like the
numbers were maybe not what they had hoped for, it's
(25:59):
not like there was like a bunch of other shows
that were thriving. Like literally we were canceled in a
few months later, I think poker Face came out and
Peacock started to kind of click I think a little
bit more for viewers. It would have been really nice
to kind of have that runway of like Dark Ones
and Red Dogs, and then our show came out and
like people were like primed, you know, whereas like we
were first. There's a lot of kind of complications that
(26:21):
come with that of having to kind of navigate those
waters and stuff. Broad running Water, who was an incredible
producer and was director of the Native program at Sentence
from many years, talks a lot about each platform sees
me not as I am. So he was like, on Amazon,
I am a black woman based on what I watch,
He's like, I'm probably like upper middle class Latino. On Netflix,
(26:43):
probably like an Asian woman on this channel where I
watch Korean dramas and things. I don't exist as like
a demographic in these spaces because there aren't enough like
data points to point to me. So we don't have
the numbers where we can like move content or dictate
with it's pick for what doesn't. In the same way,
Native people are kind of the deciding vote in a
(27:06):
lot of swing states for like the actual like political elections.
Like because we're in Montana, because we're in New Mexico,
because we're in Arizona, because we're in Colorado, we actually
like tip the scales. So I think that based on
where we are, we actually do have an audience power
and we have some pull, and so I think that's
going to translate in my mind to like other arenas.
(27:27):
Like there was a really incredible data point that I
think Nielsen released after res Dogs came out that you
saw Hoolu subscriptions go up like in Oklahoma, in Arizona,
in New Mexico. Dark Ones was on, Like it was
a huge premiere for AMC. AMC Plus is like a
small network. In these smaller platforms, something hitting you actually
(27:49):
have like a high hit rate, and so I do
think the algorithm of it all is getting better. I
think what's harder is promoting to us. You have to
be really strategic about what you're doing. It's different than
a show about six white gals on the town, you know,
like that can kind of be sort of advertised out
to everyone, and you really have to be very strategic.
(28:10):
I think in the promotion. I remember the first season
of Insecure, Easterray like went to HBCUs like went specifically
to those places to promote her show and was like,
we have to go into community and find these people
to make sure they know our show exists. That's what
I really would love to do. Go to like travel colleges,
go to specific places and like have screenings and specific
places to make sure people know we exist. One of
(28:32):
the things we had to explain to like Peacock Marketing
was like, we're still on Facebook, where like Indians never
left Facebook. For a lot of like marketing teams, Facebook
is like a dead platform. They won't create content, not
for Indian country, but not for any country. Any country
that's where you go to like see your stuff. So
we had to find ways to make interroads at Facebook
because we were like, this is where the audience is.
(28:54):
What helped was like having like an organization like Illuminative,
like explain that to them and create content specifically for
those platforms. It was really hard to explain like what
Peacock was to people, and then on top of that
be like and there's this Native American sitcom. People are
like what, Like there's somebody whats to goose sentences.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Although the show did not enjoy a long life, Siarah
believes it will make the process easier for future shows.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
We were technically like the first Native American sitcom in
the United States. I was technically the first Native showrunner.
And at the time, there was no res Dogs, there
was no Dark Wins, like, none of that stuff had
come out. So people weren't really comfortable with the concept
of this. Everyone was really distrusting of like what is this,
Like what are you doing? We were sort of first
on the beach, you know, of that stuff, and we
had to kind of be like, I swear it's gonna
(29:41):
be good because like it never is, so like we
never blamed anyone for being suspicious because I was like, yeah,
of course you would, like how could you not? The
pump has been primed a little bit now, and I
think the next person to do this is going to
have a much easier time because of what we did.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Sierra is aware that most Native talent is still underrepresented,
and it is working hard to open more doors.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I will say, like I'm trying to get everybody in,
Like I feel like I'm like, I'm I do feel
that responsibility in the best way. All I can do
is what I'm good at, you know what I mean.
And I'm not good at everything, so like just comedy
silly version of me is like the best version of me.
But I feel like that's why it's so important to
have so many different Native people come in and tell
their stories. It is because it's everyone gets to do
(30:23):
what they're great at, you know, And that should be
the goal, not just to make the stories that they
want us to make. But like what's so great about
Red Bugs and Rotherford is like we're getting to make
the things we've always been dang to make. And I
think there's something really beautiful about that.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
This episode of Burn Stage, Burn Bridges was written and
produced by myself along with Max Williams and Dylan Fagan.
Additional thanks to the Next Up Program Special Thanks to
our guests Sierra Teller or Nellis. Check out some of
her work on show like Happy Endings, Superstore, and of course,
Rutherford Falls. Remember to listen and subscribe. New episodes come
(31:08):
out every Wednesday. Thank you for listening.
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