June 12, 2024 • 41 mins
Chris Pimentel lost his first love to AIDS in 1991. But 30 years later, that love story got an unexpected new chapter. Part 2 of this love story drops next week. Special thank you to Trent Straube for originally writing about Chris & Jason in POZ magazine in 2021. You can read his article here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
But We Loved is a production of iHeart Podcasts and
the Outspoken podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
So I had a dream about Roger. This was probably
within a month after he passed away, and he was
dressed in all white in an all white room, and
he just sort of like appeared. He gave me a
hug and he didn't talk, but I could hear his thoughts,
and he said that everything was going to be okay.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
And then and that we were just embraced with each other.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The moment in which he visited me, and it felt
like it felt as real as possible, like it just
felt like we had.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Touched but that he came to me and said that
everything was going to be.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Okay, and I believed him.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
As a gay kid, growing up religious and in the South,
I thought being gay was the worst thing I could
ever be. Now, as a journalist, I'm trying to unlearn
that by seeking out our history, and what I've found
are people and stories full of courage, perseverance, and love.
(01:17):
In this episode, we'll meet Chris Pimentel, who lost his
first love to AIDS in nineteen ninety one. We'll learn
what it was like for him to live through the
AIDS crisis. And how thirty years later his story with
that first love got a new chapter for my Heart podcast.
I'm Jordan, go and solve this and this is what
(01:39):
we loved. Sometimes when I think about the AIDS crisis
(02:05):
and all of the queer people that were affected, I
honestly get emotional. It's sobering to put myself in their shoes,
because forty years ago I could have lost so many
of my friends and loved ones like they did. I
could have been lost too. As a gay man, I've
(02:29):
always had this deep fear of HIV, and it doesn't
really have anything to do with the virus because it's
totally treatable today, But it has everything to do with
the shame. The little aid's history that I did learn
in school taught me that people who have HIV died
(02:53):
alone and unloved. But now, in my adulthood, realize that
I was learning the wrong history. Making this show has
helped me see just how many amazing love stories there
were at that time. My next guest, Chris P. Mantell,
(03:14):
has one of them. He lost his first love, Roger,
to AIDS in nineteen ninety one, but that love would
stay with him for the rest of his life and
that love would revisit him unexpectedly thirty years later. So
(03:36):
tell me, now, how did you know you were gay
in your adolescence and in your teen years.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I was still living in Los Angeles as a young
early teen person and growing up in close proximity to
West Hollywood, there was exposure to gay culture. I knew
I was different as a young as a young boy,
I didn't know what I was, but I knew that
I liked boys also, So disco was big back then,
(04:07):
and Donna Summer was my favorite artist and she still is.
And Donna Summer had a big gay following. I mean
also being raised in LA on the West Side, but
you know, being close to West Hollywood and whatnot. You know,
you would go into a store and you would hear
Donna Summer and you would there would be gay men.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And so that's how I was exposed.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I saw older gay people and they stood out because
when I was around with my family, that wasn't an
image that I saw.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So tell me a little bit about what your parents
were like.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
My parents were born here in the US, but we
come from Mexican heritage, so it's a very Latino Chicano household,
and you know, my dad was very strict about me
portraying any sort of feminine characteristics.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And what was your mom like?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
House mom?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Just very kind and very loving, caring, nurturing. I could
tell that there was, you know, definitely a connection between
my mom and I. I think my mom knew when
I was at a young age.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Did you end up coming out to your mom?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
No.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I was starting to discover you know, sexuality and sex
at that point. I would go to just any you know,
mom in pop liquor store and they would have different
types of pornography magazines and I would take Time magazine
and then put the porn magazine in it. I would
even go into bookstores and still magazines gay porn magazines
(05:40):
and just stick them in my jacket and leave. And
I had them in just a stack under my bed.
But you know, I think moms know where to find
anything and everything. She found these magazines while I was
gone out of the house, and when I came home,
they were just sitting on the bed.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
My mom asked me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
If I was gay, and I said no, because I
hadn't come out to myself yet. But I think she
let me just develop on my own. My mom was
important because she was on my side. I felt that,
I felt the love, I felt the nurturing, I felt
the care from her. But you know, living also with
my dad, that was, you know, difficult to do.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Like you have your dad on one side, who is
a little bit more strict, more machismo, and then you
have your mom that's more accepting of the fact that
you have this soft side to you.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, I think she saw who I was for who
I was, she just accepted, she accepted me.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It was about seventh eighth grade my mom was diagnosed
with lupus. She became very sick, you know, and she
had it for several years and it went into remission.
She wasn't sick, very sick for all those years, more
towards the beginning, and more and towards the end. I
was twenty two when she passed away. When my mom
(07:06):
passed away, I was there in the room. I felt
like that her body was just the vessel she was in,
and that her spirit was in all of us.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
She was always. She never left, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
It sounds like she was sort of your advocate, even
though you hadn't really come out yet. It sounds like,
if you had come out to yourself, you would have
come out to her and she would have protected you
or embraced you. What were those years like coming into
your own after your mom had passed.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So I had moved out of the house.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
My father and I never really had a strong relationship
pretty much never Maybe he recognized that, you know, I
might be gay and whatnot. And now that my mom's
gone and I pushing my dad out of the picture,
I just felt like, I think I was looking to
be loved. I think the love my mom was so
strong that it was it was missing. I was still healing.
(08:04):
It was just a few months. I was still trying
to understand who I was as a person at that time,
on top of my biggest cheerleader passing away, and so
I was wondering where the love was going to come from.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
In the months following his mom's death, Chris really came
into his own as a gay man. He was making
other gay friends and exploring his sexuality. He would go
on dates and even had some flings here and there,
but deep down, the loss of his mother left a
soft spot for love that he wanted to fill. One night,
(08:41):
his friend Hector invited him to a big gay club
in La Hector was like one of those friends who
somehow knows everyone in the gay scene, and Chris had
no idea that Hector would introduce him that night to
someone who would change his life. Tell me about the
night that you met Roger.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So this was back in nineteen eighty nine, and there's
a club in Los Angeles that's still around called Catch One.
So that night was a house party, house music party,
and so we went dancing. My friend Hector and I
are walking in the hallway, but there was someone in
(09:25):
front of him that he knew, and the person kept
turning around and looking at me. A slim guy, six foot,
very groomed, you know, he looked like he just had
a fresh haircut, big smile, bright eyes. So we're walking
through this hallway and Hector introduces me to Roger and
(09:47):
I don't even remember seeing him the rest of the night.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So what happened next?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So I would say within a week, Hector, the mutual
friend i'd introduced us, said oh, the guy you met
at the club wants to ask you out or talk
to you. And I said, okay, you know he was cute. Sure,
you know, I didn't I didn't. I didn't pursue Roger,
but Roger calls and our first date was back at
the club where we where we first met again. It
(10:16):
was house music and we just I just remember dancing away,
dancing the night away with him, and then when he
dropped me off, and I'm I don't have an exact
memory of it, but I'm pretty sure he came inside.
I'm sure he dropped me off and he spent the night.
We hit it off that night. We just started hanging out,
and then the hanging out turned into being boyfriends.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
So did you guys decide to move in together?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, we grabbed the U haul and we moved in
pretty good, I would say, within maybe a month.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, it was fast, and I think, you know, I
was so young. I was twenty two at that point.
I was sure why not. He found an apartment for us.
It was a large apartment complex, but we were on
the on the third floor, and and I mean he
showed it to me and said, do you want to
live here? And I agreed, and so we moved in
(11:13):
and started building a home together.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
What did you love about him, Chris? Those first couple
months that you were dating.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, one that he was also from a Mexican family.
There was a lot of things that were relatable between
us without having to explain cultural differences. It's almost like
he was just from the neighborhood and he understood things
about food or culture or traditions. Once I discovered we
you know, we shared our birthdays and we figured out
(11:42):
that we were both Capricorns, it was just one more
of those things that we, you know, found a commonplace together.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
But he was also a warm person to me. He
was very kind and very giving. I remember on.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Fridays, every Friday, he would bring me a gift a card.
One of the ways he showed his love is that
he was just a giving person and very kind, and
there was just a peacefulness about him. Roger made me
feel safe. I felt safe with him, and especially during
that time. I mean it hadn't even been a year
(12:17):
after my mom passed away, So I think, you know,
that was something that made me feel comfortable around him,
that I was being protected and someone was looking out
after me.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
He had kind of filled that space that you were
looking for that you had mentioned earlier. Yes, yes, exactly,
Chris and Roger were falling for each other fast but
the backdrop of their love story was a growing crisis
of thousands of young gay men getting sick because of
(12:47):
a new virus called HIV. When left untreated, HIV would
turn into AIDS, which was almost always deadly. And in
those days, there was no effective treatment and there was
no cure. Now, Chris, I wonder if you could tell
me a little bit about the time period. This is
(13:09):
the early nineties, late eighties, and AIDS is ravaging the
gay community. How had it affected you? And Roger?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
AIDS was big news. It was pretty much a death
sentence at that point. There was no cure, there was
no treatment. It could look very scary to somebody, you know,
with lesions and being very gaunt and thin and you know,
almost like a shell of a person, and so it
was very scary and nobody knew what to do. People
(13:41):
sometimes didn't even want to touch you, you know. It
was like no kissing and sometimes no hugging. And you know,
don't sit on that toilet seat because a gay man
might have been on that you know, toilet seat, and
not because you were someone was HIV, but because you
were gay. So if you were gay, you probably did
have HIV, you know, it was a lot of assumptions.
(14:01):
They were just figuring out how to navigate HIV and
how to care medically care for people. I didn't even
really understand how it might affect me. But one day
Roger came home and he told me, I have got
to tell you something, and it admitted that he had
just tested positive told me and he was crying and
(14:24):
was so worried that I would break up with him
and that I would want nothing to do with him.
Based on just the times that were occurring, there was
a lot of shame just being positive or admitting that
you were positive.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So in that moment when he told you that he
was positive, what was going through your mind?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I think my mom sort of kicked him my mom's
behaviors of care and love. He seemed terrified that I
would leave him, and I just leaned into him, telling
him that I loved him and that I I wouldn't
leave him because of that. Like to me, it wasn't
even a thought. We were in love with each other,
and so something like his HIV status wasn't enough to me.
(15:10):
That wasn't a reason to leave him.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
When we come back, Chris learns that when Roger dies
he will leave behind a son. It's nineteen eighty nine.
Still grieving his mother's death, Chris's relationship with Roger helped
(15:35):
him heal, but just as their romance began to reach
new heights, Roger tested positive for HIV. By this time,
AIDS had been devastating the gay community for almost ten years.
Thousands were already dead. The CDC said, if you had AIDS,
(15:55):
you would likely only have five years to live, and
the images coming out we're jarring young men with sunken
cheekbones from rapid weight loss and big purple blotches on
their skin from cancer. At twenty three years old, Chris
was processing that his first love might die. He knew
(16:17):
he wasn't going to get any help in caring for
Roger from his family or Rogers, and he was also
starting to think about his own HIV status too. How
were you thinking about your own status?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I just assumed I was HIV positive. I was convinced,
completely convinced that, well, we've been having sex and I
have HIV too, and this is my fate as well.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Just his was showing up sooner.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Back then, I was just I was resigned to that
I was HIV positive. And that I would get sick
and pass away.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
What was his personality like when he was sick? What
was that like?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Well, one of the things I loved about Roger is
his sense of humor, and he always maintained that even
when he was feeling his worst, he found some way
to bring humor.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Do you remember, like some of the funny things he
would do.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
He loved I Love Lucy, so he would often if
we weren't watching I Love Lucy and reruns, then he
was imitating Lucy or stealing her lines and delivering them
in character. But you know, the TV show in general
was something that he loved to watch.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
How was your relationship at this time? Do you think
it sort of brought you closer together?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think it did bring us closer together because I
knew that the clock was ticking, and I think that's
what everybody was feeling once you were dealt, you know,
in HIV's positive status, and we found ways to just
spend more time with each other and cherish the those
moments together because we didn't know what was ahead exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You know, knowing that his time was limited. What kind
of conversations were you guys having at this point as
his condition worsened.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So I was not his first boyfriend. He had a
boyfriend before we were together. But before the previous boyfriend,
he was married to a woman. It was someone that
he met in cosmetology school and they had a baby together.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And I don't know too much about their relationship other
than that her family is a Mormon. She comes from
a Mormon family. So once Roger was he came out,
that made things a lot different, you know, his his
relationship with the wife and with the family. So Roger
and the person he was married to had a baby,
(19:00):
be a son named Jason, and I think Jason was
between seven and nine when they had to divorce or
they separated, and at that point that Roger had no
more contact with Jason. So it I can see, I
can see, you know, because of their religion, because of
(19:21):
their belief system. Why, you know, they wouldn't want to,
you know, have someone that's an outsider.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And so when he came out, they excommunicated him.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Roger didn't go into the details of it, but at
its core, yes, that's what happened, that he was excommunicated
and no contact with Jason. Because Roger would talk about
Jason and how much he missed him, and how much
it really pained him that he was missing his son
and missing out on Jason's childhood. He loved Jason, and
(19:54):
that was quite clear to me, you know, especially with
his with his status and you know, having HIV.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
He was afraid that.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He wouldn't get to see Jason again. It was always
painful for him to talk about Jason. I think Roger
was hopeful that he would see Jason again at some point.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Roger didn't know how long he was going to live.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
We felt that it would be short term, but he
was hoping to see Jason before he died.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Do you mind taking me through the moment when Roger's
illness worsened.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
So Roger had been home for a few weeks from work,
just bedridden, and I was taking care of him, and
he was starting to I would, I want to say,
babbel kind of talking things that didn't make sense to me,
or it was not part of any conversation. I could
hear exactly what he was saying, but to me it
(20:52):
didn't make sense. But it made sense in the fact
that my mom said the same things before she passed away.
And I'm not sure if this is something that happens
when people are closer to death. But it was a
very strange coincidence, and I knew. I think I called
the hospital and they said, just get him here to
the hospital. I had to carry him. He was not
(21:15):
even strong enough to walk. I had to carry him
down three flights of stairs to the car. And the
neighbors were also too gay, guys, same age, and I
don't know if they could hear through the.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Wall and what was going on.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But I propped Roger up on a rail so I
could lock the door, and I picked him up again,
and the guys opened the door like just enough to
look out, and I could see their eyes and I'm
looking at them and I'm like terrified, holding Roger in
my arms, and they'd shut the door like it was
the plague, you know, in retrospect, I think that's just
(21:54):
how the times were. Even gay people could shun other
gain people as well, you know. So I'm carrying Roger
down to the car. I get him in the car.
I'm trying to keep him awake. He was very like
weak and like ready to pass out. So we get
Roger into the emergency room into a wheelchair, and someone
went to go look at Roger and his lips were blue,
(22:16):
and so they're like, okay. They immediately put him in
the back and they they intubated him and they had
to strap him down, and it was it was kind
of a horrible moment to seeing him, you know, in
such a weak state and barely breathing and getting you know,
not getting enough oxygen and and he pulled the tube out,
(22:39):
so they that's why they tied him down, and they
induced coma at that point. And so that was basically
the last time that we could look at each other,
and and so where we were aware of each other,
(23:00):
it hope, face to face. And uh so, you know,
I don't remember how many days he was in the hospital,
but it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Wasn't more than a week.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And you know, they were, I think taking all the
care they could that they knew all the steps they
needed to take to keep him alive.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
And he died of pneumonia.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I remember just being in the room and just
I mean I was almost at peace myself because he
was at peace. So his mom and dad were there,
and his mom asked me, she pulled me to the
side and asked, you know, what did Roger want? Were
(23:40):
his wishes, and I told her that he wanted to
be created, and she just nodded her head and said, okay,
you know, and.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
We said goodbye.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And you know, I found out immediately they left the
hospital and right to the mortuary, to the to the
cemetery where his uncle worked. They weren't going to cremate him.
They were going to bury him. So I got in
touch with with Roger's ex wife and explained to her
what Roger wanted, and she agreed to sign over a
power of attorney to me for Roger's body. So I
(24:10):
had now I have control over Roger's body or what
happens to his body at this point. And it just
kept going on and on, and they were fighting me,
and they were calling me, and they were, you know, like,
I don't remember why, but I finally I just gave in.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I just I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It was about two to three weeks later, and I
just couldn't take it anymore. So he was buried and
not cremated. It was just a difficult time, and I
wasn't thinking clearly, and I just wasn't adult enough to
know what to do. By that time, I was twenty
four years old.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Wow. Well, you know it. It's funny that you mentioned
the fact that you were twenty four when all of
this was going on. That is such a young tender
age to be navigating things like death and a state
planning and funerals and power of attorney. I was wondering,
(25:13):
I am wondering, how did you sort of manage all
of that and grieve at the same time during that
period at twenty four years old.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So I had a dream about Roger.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This was probably within a month after he passed away,
and he was dressed in all white in an all
white room, and he just sort of like appeared. He
gave me a hug, and he didn't talk, but I
could hear his thoughts, and he said that everything was
going to be okay. And then and that we were
(25:51):
just embraced with each other the moment in which he
visited me, and it felt like it felt as real
as possible, like it just felt like we had touched
but that he came to me and said that everything
was going to be okay, and I believed him.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Again.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Another parallel was that I had the same dream with
my mom when my mom passed away, that she told
me that everything would be okay. It wasn't the same
dream they were, you know, a few years apart, but
it was the same type of dream where they each
told me that it would be okay, and there was
an embrace and that it just felt peaceful.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So while you're going through the grieving process, at this point,
you haven't gotten tested. Were you wanting to get tested now?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I didn't feel it was so urgent. I assumed I'm
HIV positive too, so I was just kind of waiting
for myself to get sick. So after I must have
been about two years, I decided to after Rogers passing away,
to go get tested. And so when I went to
get tested and I got my results, they were negative,
(27:06):
but still I was not convinced that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I was HIV negative.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I was like, this is maybe there's something wrong
with the test or faulty test and whatnot. And then
I got tested a second and third time within the
next year, and they were again negative. I didn't understand
how it sort of changed my perspective on life. I
think I just felt like more like a second chance
(27:30):
in a way, you know, to like, Okay, now I
can really live my life.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
When we come back. Chris hears from Roger's son, Jason,
thirty years after Roger's death. After Roger's death, Chris was
be getting to move forward. Learning that his HIV status
(28:03):
was negative gave him a renewed outlook on life, but
there was still some unfinished business. Roger had a child, Jason,
and he wanted to leave him several things, photos that
he had framed, his ring mementos. Chris had no idea,
(28:24):
but Jason didn't know much about his dad at all.
Roger had died when Jason was just nine years old,
but Jason didn't find that out until he was in
high school, when he just so happened to stumble upon
his father's death certificate at home. Later on, he found
out through a family member that Roger had died of
(28:46):
AIDS related complications. He had always hoped to meet his
dad one day, so the discovery was a shock. He
did manage to get in contact with Roger's mother, but
she didn't give him very much information about Chris, only
that Roger had a partner when he died. Jason's search
for his dad was also a source subject at home.
(29:09):
His mom's family would shut him down anytime he asked
about his father. He was told that Roger wasn't a
great person. Chris didn't know any of this, but he
knew that one day he wanted to give Jason the
things his father had left for him.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So, you know, I put everything that meant something to
Roger and Jason.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I put them in a box.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Roger had different things that were Jason's and they didn't
mean too much to me, but they meant something because
they meant something to Roger. I kept the box for
thirty years because I knew that I had to get
those things to Jason, and I knew that I wouldn't
be able to get those to Jason as a child.
(29:56):
How come, Well, if I remember correctly, the time that
I did talk to his ex wife, she wanted to
distance herself from the whole situation.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So you weren't able to get to Jason.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Basically, yeah, I knew that I would somehow meet him
as an adult.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I was.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I had faith in that that I wouldn't meet up
with Jason. I didn't know how, I didn't know where
and when, but I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna
do that. I never give up hope. I just I
knew it would happen. That's why I didn't feel urgent.
I just moved ahead, knowing that at some point I
I would meet Jason.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
As the Internet became popular, Chris would sometimes search for Jason,
but he didn't have very much information to go off of.
He just had to trust the feeling that one day
they'd eventually meet. So did you ever find Jason?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So in December twenty twenty, it was just a regular
day of you know, pandemic life. I was on Instagram
and there's an account that I followed called the AIDS Memorial.
Folks will submit a photo, photos of a loved one,
someone they cared about that passed away from AIDS, and
they write a story, a brief story, and there's thousands
(31:09):
of posts. So I'm scrolling and I see Roger's photo
and I was like, oh cool, somebody posted about Roger
and I was like wow, And I thought immediately that
it was one of his friends. And I start reading it,
and then I realized that it's Jason because he starts
talking about his dad.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Can you read the post, Chris of you don't mind?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yes, I want to honor my dad who lost his
life to AIDS. Sadly, I don't know a lot of
information about him. He passed away when I was just
a kid. His name was Roger Vasquez. My father passed
away when I was about seven years old. He had
a rough life up until then. He was trying to
discover who he was as a closeted gay man. Before
(31:56):
he died, he found a man who loved him for
who he was. That man took care of him until
he passed away in nineteen ninety. This picture is one
of the only pictures I have left of my father,
and I will cherish it. Dad, you are loved and
you are missed, Signed Jason, And so it's just one
photo of him, and Jason is a toddler and Roger's
(32:17):
holding him.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
How did you feel when you saw that post?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Well, when he started talking about me, I was in shock.
I was like, oh, immediately a lot of emotions came back.
It just it was this flood of emotion and thoughts
and memories and feelings and anything that had to do
with us over the years, all the things that I
(32:43):
missed about Roger and all the moments I wished Roger
was still alive. And so it took me about four
or five days after seeing the post for me to
process everything. It was a little difficult those few days
because it brought everything back to life. And so so
I pulled myself together. And you know, four or five
(33:04):
days later and I DM Jason and say, hi, Jason,
I saw your beautiful post about your dad Roger. I
have some information about him. Shoot me a text so
we can figure out a time to chat. Looking forward
to hearing from you, Chris, and I gave my phone number.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Oh so you you didn't say anything about you being
the lover that he was.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
To No, No, I didn't want I didn't want to like,
just like casually just put it in a DM. Wow,
and uh.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Probably that same night, he says, hello, did you know him?
I said yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Were you close to him? And I said yes, you
can say that. And then I sent a photo of
Roger and Jason replied, Wow, that's incredible. I've always seen
the same three photos I have of him. He had
not seen that photo I sent to him. And then
I told him we were boyfriends for the last two
years of his life. I'm the one you've been looking
(33:58):
for and vice versa. And then I sent him a
photo of the two of us when we were when
we were pretty young, and he says, oh my gosh,
I've been trying to find info about you for a
long time. His mother would never give me your name,
and I'm not surprised. She was never nice to me.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So he didn't have any information about his dad, right.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
They didn't really talk well about Roger after he died.
They really didn't want anything to do with Roger.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
And they never.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Really spoke about Roger as far as I know. They
didn't speak well about him, and it was farm view
between so Jason had little information.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Despite being kept away from each other for thirty years
by both Roger's parent and Jason's parent. Fate had other plans.
Chris and Jason were both excited to finally meet. They
didn't see each other right away, though this felt like
it was going to be monumental and they didn't want
to rush anything. But on a trip back to La
(35:05):
Chris felt like this was the right time. So now
tell me about what it was like the first time
meeting Jason.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It took it about two years for us to meet
in person, and we had planned it. I was taking
a trip down to LA and I said, you know,
I ping Jason and said let's meet. Let's find a
time in a day. And he came to my friend's
house and he's like, I'm here. So I went downstairs
(35:35):
and I saw Jason. You could tell that that he
was Roger's.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Son, you know, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And then when I hugged Jason, it felt like I
was hugging Roger. I think he's maybe even a little taller,
but it just felt like like Roger. I don't know,
maybe Roger was just there, just like you know, a
group hug. And we went down the street to go
have lunch, to just kind of like ease into what
(36:02):
we were about to get into. In Los Angeles, there's
a park and in the park there's an AIDS memorial
called Lost Memorias. The official title is Last Memorials the Wall,
So it's this wall of folks that have died of AIDS.
So I submitted Roger's name and he was part of
the first cohort of names being added to the wall.
(36:26):
The plan was also to go to the memorial at
the park so I could show Jason. And before we
went to the park, I went back to my friend's
house to grab the box of things to take them,
and so when we got to the park, I took
the box and we found a place to go sit down.
We looked at the memorial, found his name, and I
brought the box out and was pulling things out one
(36:48):
at a time.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And giving them to him.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
And this is the first time him seeing things that
were his dad, or something that his dad touched. Even
there was one of them was a photo of the
two of them that it was a photo that Roger
put in the frame, and that photo had stayed in
there all those years, so it was exactly how Roger
left it. I explained to Jason once I gave him
(37:13):
the items, how much pain his dad was in that
he couldn't visit his son or have contact with his
son knowing that he was going to die. Like, your
dad missed you, he loved you, and it was painful.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
What was it like for you to give him the
box that you'd been holding onto for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I felt emotional about it because I had been holding
on to this thing, this box for me, it was
a duty, it was responsibility to do that for the
two of them. Giving Jason the box and holding onto
the box of items for that long was just one
of the last things that I could do for Roger too,
(37:57):
because Roger wasn't able to have contact with Jason.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I just felt like I had to do that. I
had to do that for Roger.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And you know, also reading Jason's story on Instagram, he
only had three photos, the same three photos over all
these years, and you know, I've got a box full
of pictures, you know, having fun and you know, pictures
of Roger with his family.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
And what was it like for Jason to receive all
of your words and the memories and the photos.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Jason was grateful, he was he was happy to have
those things again. He was, you know, gracious that that
I held onto everything and that I, you know, brought
them to him and that we found each other, and
you know that I was filling in a lot of
the story that he didn't know about his dad.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
How do you feel about Roger now, thirty plus years later,
after having this amazing experience and sort of being able
to turn the page on that chapter.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Rogers, He's just always been a constant in my life.
Even you know, I've had long term partners and they've
always known about Roger. Because I just feel like Roger's
a Guardian Angel. You know, along with my mom, I
always feel that they're with me. And you know, when
I'm doing something happier, when I'm dancing to house music,
a lot of times I think about him. You know,
(39:25):
He'll pop in my mind in different moments, like making
my mom's recipe of chicken enchiladas and and uh, you know,
I remember making them for Roger too. So it's just
all these things are sort of strung together. And I
still make those inciladas today, and so I think about
the two of them.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
I always think about them.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
But We Loved is hosted by me Jordan Gonsolves, new
episodes every Wednesday. If you want to write in to
tell your story, email us at Buttweloved at gmail dot com,
or send us a message on Instagram or TikTok at
butt we Loved. We are a production of The Outspoken
(40:31):
Podcast Network and iHeart Podcast. But We Loved was originally
developed with Pushkin Studios. Our producers are Shehina Zaki, Michael June,
Emily Meronoff, and Joey patt Our Executive producers or me,
Maya Howard and Katrina Norville. Fact checking by Marisa Brown.
Original music by Steve Boone Special thanks to Jay Brunson
(40:56):
and Markel Willis. If you loved this episode, leave us
a and follow us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and
thank you for listening. I'll see you next week.
But We Loved is a production of iHeart Podcasts and
the Outspoken podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
So I had a dream about Roger. This was probably
within a month after he passed away, and he was
dressed in all white in an all white room, and
he just sort of like appeared. He gave me a
hug and he didn't talk, but I could hear his thoughts,
and he said that everything was going to be okay.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
And then and that we were just embraced with each other.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The moment in which he visited me, and it felt
like it felt as real as possible, like it just
felt like we had.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Touched but that he came to me and said that
everything was going to be.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Okay, and I believed him.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
As a gay kid, growing up religious and in the South,
I thought being gay was the worst thing I could
ever be. Now, as a journalist, I'm trying to unlearn
that by seeking out our history, and what I've found
are people and stories full of courage, perseverance, and love.
(01:17):
In this episode, we'll meet Chris Pimentel, who lost his
first love to AIDS in nineteen ninety one. We'll learn
what it was like for him to live through the
AIDS crisis. And how thirty years later his story with
that first love got a new chapter for my Heart podcast.
I'm Jordan, go and solve this and this is what
(01:39):
we loved. Sometimes when I think about the AIDS crisis
(02:05):
and all of the queer people that were affected, I
honestly get emotional. It's sobering to put myself in their shoes,
because forty years ago I could have lost so many
of my friends and loved ones like they did. I
could have been lost too. As a gay man, I've
(02:29):
always had this deep fear of HIV, and it doesn't
really have anything to do with the virus because it's
totally treatable today, But it has everything to do with
the shame. The little aid's history that I did learn
in school taught me that people who have HIV died
(02:53):
alone and unloved. But now, in my adulthood, realize that
I was learning the wrong history. Making this show has
helped me see just how many amazing love stories there
were at that time. My next guest, Chris P. Mantell,
(03:14):
has one of them. He lost his first love, Roger,
to AIDS in nineteen ninety one, but that love would
stay with him for the rest of his life and
that love would revisit him unexpectedly thirty years later. So
(03:36):
tell me, now, how did you know you were gay
in your adolescence and in your teen years.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I was still living in Los Angeles as a young
early teen person and growing up in close proximity to
West Hollywood, there was exposure to gay culture. I knew
I was different as a young as a young boy,
I didn't know what I was, but I knew that
I liked boys also, So disco was big back then,
(04:07):
and Donna Summer was my favorite artist and she still is.
And Donna Summer had a big gay following. I mean
also being raised in LA on the West Side, but
you know, being close to West Hollywood and whatnot. You know,
you would go into a store and you would hear
Donna Summer and you would there would be gay men.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
And so that's how I was exposed.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I saw older gay people and they stood out because
when I was around with my family, that wasn't an
image that I saw.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So tell me a little bit about what your parents
were like.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
My parents were born here in the US, but we
come from Mexican heritage, so it's a very Latino Chicano household,
and you know, my dad was very strict about me
portraying any sort of feminine characteristics.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And what was your mom like?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
House mom?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Just very kind and very loving, caring, nurturing. I could
tell that there was, you know, definitely a connection between
my mom and I. I think my mom knew when
I was at a young age.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Did you end up coming out to your mom?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
No.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I was starting to discover you know, sexuality and sex
at that point. I would go to just any you know,
mom in pop liquor store and they would have different
types of pornography magazines and I would take Time magazine
and then put the porn magazine in it. I would
even go into bookstores and still magazines gay porn magazines
(05:40):
and just stick them in my jacket and leave. And
I had them in just a stack under my bed.
But you know, I think moms know where to find
anything and everything. She found these magazines while I was
gone out of the house, and when I came home,
they were just sitting on the bed.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
My mom asked me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
If I was gay, and I said no, because I
hadn't come out to myself yet. But I think she
let me just develop on my own. My mom was
important because she was on my side. I felt that,
I felt the love, I felt the nurturing, I felt
the care from her. But you know, living also with
my dad, that was, you know, difficult to do.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Like you have your dad on one side, who is
a little bit more strict, more machismo, and then you
have your mom that's more accepting of the fact that
you have this soft side to you.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, I think she saw who I was for who
I was, she just accepted, she accepted me.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
It was about seventh eighth grade my mom was diagnosed
with lupus. She became very sick, you know, and she
had it for several years and it went into remission.
She wasn't sick, very sick for all those years, more
towards the beginning, and more and towards the end. I
was twenty two when she passed away. When my mom
(07:06):
passed away, I was there in the room. I felt
like that her body was just the vessel she was in,
and that her spirit was in all of us.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
She was always. She never left, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
It sounds like she was sort of your advocate, even
though you hadn't really come out yet. It sounds like,
if you had come out to yourself, you would have
come out to her and she would have protected you
or embraced you. What were those years like coming into
your own after your mom had passed.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
So I had moved out of the house.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
My father and I never really had a strong relationship
pretty much never Maybe he recognized that, you know, I
might be gay and whatnot. And now that my mom's
gone and I pushing my dad out of the picture,
I just felt like, I think I was looking to
be loved. I think the love my mom was so
strong that it was it was missing. I was still healing.
(08:04):
It was just a few months. I was still trying
to understand who I was as a person at that time,
on top of my biggest cheerleader passing away, and so
I was wondering where the love was going to come from.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
In the months following his mom's death, Chris really came
into his own as a gay man. He was making
other gay friends and exploring his sexuality. He would go
on dates and even had some flings here and there,
but deep down, the loss of his mother left a
soft spot for love that he wanted to fill. One night,
(08:41):
his friend Hector invited him to a big gay club
in La Hector was like one of those friends who
somehow knows everyone in the gay scene, and Chris had
no idea that Hector would introduce him that night to
someone who would change his life. Tell me about the
night that you met Roger.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So this was back in nineteen eighty nine, and there's
a club in Los Angeles that's still around called Catch One.
So that night was a house party, house music party,
and so we went dancing. My friend Hector and I
are walking in the hallway, but there was someone in
(09:25):
front of him that he knew, and the person kept
turning around and looking at me. A slim guy, six foot,
very groomed, you know, he looked like he just had
a fresh haircut, big smile, bright eyes. So we're walking
through this hallway and Hector introduces me to Roger and
(09:47):
I don't even remember seeing him the rest of the night.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So what happened next?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So I would say within a week, Hector, the mutual
friend i'd introduced us, said oh, the guy you met
at the club wants to ask you out or talk
to you. And I said, okay, you know he was cute. Sure,
you know, I didn't I didn't. I didn't pursue Roger,
but Roger calls and our first date was back at
the club where we where we first met again. It
(10:16):
was house music and we just I just remember dancing away,
dancing the night away with him, and then when he
dropped me off, and I'm I don't have an exact
memory of it, but I'm pretty sure he came inside.
I'm sure he dropped me off and he spent the night.
We hit it off that night. We just started hanging out,
and then the hanging out turned into being boyfriends.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
So did you guys decide to move in together?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, we grabbed the U haul and we moved in
pretty good, I would say, within maybe a month.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, it was fast, and I think, you know, I
was so young. I was twenty two at that point.
I was sure why not. He found an apartment for us.
It was a large apartment complex, but we were on
the on the third floor, and and I mean he
showed it to me and said, do you want to
live here? And I agreed, and so we moved in
(11:13):
and started building a home together.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
What did you love about him, Chris? Those first couple
months that you were dating.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, one that he was also from a Mexican family.
There was a lot of things that were relatable between
us without having to explain cultural differences. It's almost like
he was just from the neighborhood and he understood things
about food or culture or traditions. Once I discovered we
you know, we shared our birthdays and we figured out
(11:42):
that we were both Capricorns, it was just one more
of those things that we, you know, found a commonplace together.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
But he was also a warm person to me. He
was very kind and very giving. I remember on.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Fridays, every Friday, he would bring me a gift a card.
One of the ways he showed his love is that
he was just a giving person and very kind, and
there was just a peacefulness about him. Roger made me
feel safe. I felt safe with him, and especially during
that time. I mean it hadn't even been a year
(12:17):
after my mom passed away, So I think, you know,
that was something that made me feel comfortable around him,
that I was being protected and someone was looking out
after me.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
He had kind of filled that space that you were
looking for that you had mentioned earlier. Yes, yes, exactly,
Chris and Roger were falling for each other fast but
the backdrop of their love story was a growing crisis
of thousands of young gay men getting sick because of
(12:47):
a new virus called HIV. When left untreated, HIV would
turn into AIDS, which was almost always deadly. And in
those days, there was no effective treatment and there was
no cure. Now, Chris, I wonder if you could tell
me a little bit about the time period. This is
(13:09):
the early nineties, late eighties, and AIDS is ravaging the
gay community. How had it affected you? And Roger?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
AIDS was big news. It was pretty much a death
sentence at that point. There was no cure, there was
no treatment. It could look very scary to somebody, you know,
with lesions and being very gaunt and thin and you know,
almost like a shell of a person, and so it
was very scary and nobody knew what to do. People
(13:41):
sometimes didn't even want to touch you, you know. It
was like no kissing and sometimes no hugging. And you know,
don't sit on that toilet seat because a gay man
might have been on that you know, toilet seat, and
not because you were someone was HIV, but because you
were gay. So if you were gay, you probably did
have HIV, you know, it was a lot of assumptions.
(14:01):
They were just figuring out how to navigate HIV and
how to care medically care for people. I didn't even
really understand how it might affect me. But one day
Roger came home and he told me, I have got
to tell you something, and it admitted that he had
just tested positive told me and he was crying and
(14:24):
was so worried that I would break up with him
and that I would want nothing to do with him.
Based on just the times that were occurring, there was
a lot of shame just being positive or admitting that
you were positive.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So in that moment when he told you that he
was positive, what was going through your mind?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
I think my mom sort of kicked him my mom's
behaviors of care and love. He seemed terrified that I
would leave him, and I just leaned into him, telling
him that I loved him and that I I wouldn't
leave him because of that. Like to me, it wasn't
even a thought. We were in love with each other,
and so something like his HIV status wasn't enough to me.
(15:10):
That wasn't a reason to leave him.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
When we come back, Chris learns that when Roger dies
he will leave behind a son. It's nineteen eighty nine.
Still grieving his mother's death, Chris's relationship with Roger helped
(15:35):
him heal, but just as their romance began to reach
new heights, Roger tested positive for HIV. By this time,
AIDS had been devastating the gay community for almost ten years.
Thousands were already dead. The CDC said, if you had AIDS,
(15:55):
you would likely only have five years to live, and
the images coming out we're jarring young men with sunken
cheekbones from rapid weight loss and big purple blotches on
their skin from cancer. At twenty three years old, Chris
was processing that his first love might die. He knew
(16:17):
he wasn't going to get any help in caring for
Roger from his family or Rogers, and he was also
starting to think about his own HIV status too. How
were you thinking about your own status?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I just assumed I was HIV positive. I was convinced,
completely convinced that, well, we've been having sex and I
have HIV too, and this is my fate as well.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Just his was showing up sooner.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Back then, I was just I was resigned to that
I was HIV positive. And that I would get sick
and pass away.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
What was his personality like when he was sick? What
was that like?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Well, one of the things I loved about Roger is
his sense of humor, and he always maintained that even
when he was feeling his worst, he found some way
to bring humor.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Do you remember, like some of the funny things he
would do.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
He loved I Love Lucy, so he would often if
we weren't watching I Love Lucy and reruns, then he
was imitating Lucy or stealing her lines and delivering them
in character. But you know, the TV show in general
was something that he loved to watch.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
How was your relationship at this time? Do you think
it sort of brought you closer together?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think it did bring us closer together because I
knew that the clock was ticking, and I think that's
what everybody was feeling once you were dealt, you know,
in HIV's positive status, and we found ways to just
spend more time with each other and cherish the those
moments together because we didn't know what was ahead exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You know, knowing that his time was limited. What kind
of conversations were you guys having at this point as
his condition worsened.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
So I was not his first boyfriend. He had a
boyfriend before we were together. But before the previous boyfriend,
he was married to a woman. It was someone that
he met in cosmetology school and they had a baby together.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And I don't know too much about their relationship other
than that her family is a Mormon. She comes from
a Mormon family. So once Roger was he came out,
that made things a lot different, you know, his his
relationship with the wife and with the family. So Roger
and the person he was married to had a baby,
(19:00):
be a son named Jason, and I think Jason was
between seven and nine when they had to divorce or
they separated, and at that point that Roger had no
more contact with Jason. So it I can see, I
can see, you know, because of their religion, because of
(19:21):
their belief system. Why, you know, they wouldn't want to,
you know, have someone that's an outsider.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
And so when he came out, they excommunicated him.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Roger didn't go into the details of it, but at
its core, yes, that's what happened, that he was excommunicated
and no contact with Jason. Because Roger would talk about
Jason and how much he missed him, and how much
it really pained him that he was missing his son
and missing out on Jason's childhood. He loved Jason, and
(19:54):
that was quite clear to me, you know, especially with
his with his status and you know, having HIV.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
He was afraid that.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
He wouldn't get to see Jason again. It was always
painful for him to talk about Jason. I think Roger
was hopeful that he would see Jason again at some point.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Roger didn't know how long he was going to live.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
We felt that it would be short term, but he
was hoping to see Jason before he died.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Do you mind taking me through the moment when Roger's
illness worsened.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
So Roger had been home for a few weeks from work,
just bedridden, and I was taking care of him, and
he was starting to I would, I want to say,
babbel kind of talking things that didn't make sense to me,
or it was not part of any conversation. I could
hear exactly what he was saying, but to me it
(20:52):
didn't make sense. But it made sense in the fact
that my mom said the same things before she passed away.
And I'm not sure if this is something that happens
when people are closer to death. But it was a
very strange coincidence, and I knew. I think I called
the hospital and they said, just get him here to
the hospital. I had to carry him. He was not
(21:15):
even strong enough to walk. I had to carry him
down three flights of stairs to the car. And the
neighbors were also too gay, guys, same age, and I
don't know if they could hear through the.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Wall and what was going on.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But I propped Roger up on a rail so I
could lock the door, and I picked him up again,
and the guys opened the door like just enough to
look out, and I could see their eyes and I'm
looking at them and I'm like terrified, holding Roger in
my arms, and they'd shut the door like it was
the plague, you know, in retrospect, I think that's just
(21:54):
how the times were. Even gay people could shun other
gain people as well, you know. So I'm carrying Roger
down to the car. I get him in the car.
I'm trying to keep him awake. He was very like
weak and like ready to pass out. So we get
Roger into the emergency room into a wheelchair, and someone
went to go look at Roger and his lips were blue,
(22:16):
and so they're like, okay. They immediately put him in
the back and they they intubated him and they had
to strap him down, and it was it was kind
of a horrible moment to seeing him, you know, in
such a weak state and barely breathing and getting you know,
not getting enough oxygen and and he pulled the tube out,
(22:39):
so they that's why they tied him down, and they
induced coma at that point. And so that was basically
the last time that we could look at each other,
and and so where we were aware of each other,
(23:00):
it hope, face to face. And uh so, you know,
I don't remember how many days he was in the hospital,
but it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Wasn't more than a week.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
And you know, they were, I think taking all the
care they could that they knew all the steps they
needed to take to keep him alive.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
And he died of pneumonia.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And I remember just being in the room and just
I mean I was almost at peace myself because he
was at peace. So his mom and dad were there,
and his mom asked me, she pulled me to the
side and asked, you know, what did Roger want? Were
(23:40):
his wishes, and I told her that he wanted to
be created, and she just nodded her head and said, okay,
you know, and.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
We said goodbye.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And you know, I found out immediately they left the
hospital and right to the mortuary, to the to the
cemetery where his uncle worked. They weren't going to cremate him.
They were going to bury him. So I got in
touch with with Roger's ex wife and explained to her
what Roger wanted, and she agreed to sign over a
power of attorney to me for Roger's body. So I
(24:10):
had now I have control over Roger's body or what
happens to his body at this point. And it just
kept going on and on, and they were fighting me,
and they were calling me, and they were, you know, like,
I don't remember why, but I finally I just gave in.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I just I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It was about two to three weeks later, and I
just couldn't take it anymore. So he was buried and
not cremated. It was just a difficult time, and I
wasn't thinking clearly, and I just wasn't adult enough to
know what to do. By that time, I was twenty
four years old.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Wow. Well, you know it. It's funny that you mentioned
the fact that you were twenty four when all of
this was going on. That is such a young tender
age to be navigating things like death and a state
planning and funerals and power of attorney. I was wondering,
(25:13):
I am wondering, how did you sort of manage all
of that and grieve at the same time during that
period at twenty four years old.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So I had a dream about Roger.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This was probably within a month after he passed away,
and he was dressed in all white in an all
white room, and he just sort of like appeared. He
gave me a hug, and he didn't talk, but I
could hear his thoughts, and he said that everything was
going to be okay. And then and that we were
(25:51):
just embraced with each other the moment in which he
visited me, and it felt like it felt as real
as possible, like it just felt like we had touched
but that he came to me and said that everything
was going to be okay, and I believed him.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Again.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Another parallel was that I had the same dream with
my mom when my mom passed away, that she told
me that everything would be okay. It wasn't the same
dream they were, you know, a few years apart, but
it was the same type of dream where they each
told me that it would be okay, and there was
an embrace and that it just felt peaceful.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
So while you're going through the grieving process, at this point,
you haven't gotten tested. Were you wanting to get tested now?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I didn't feel it was so urgent. I assumed I'm
HIV positive too, so I was just kind of waiting
for myself to get sick. So after I must have
been about two years, I decided to after Rogers passing away,
to go get tested. And so when I went to
get tested and I got my results, they were negative,
(27:06):
but still I was not convinced that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I was HIV negative.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I was like, this is maybe there's something wrong
with the test or faulty test and whatnot. And then
I got tested a second and third time within the
next year, and they were again negative. I didn't understand
how it sort of changed my perspective on life. I
think I just felt like more like a second chance
(27:30):
in a way, you know, to like, Okay, now I
can really live my life.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
When we come back. Chris hears from Roger's son, Jason,
thirty years after Roger's death. After Roger's death, Chris was
be getting to move forward. Learning that his HIV status
(28:03):
was negative gave him a renewed outlook on life, but
there was still some unfinished business. Roger had a child, Jason,
and he wanted to leave him several things, photos that
he had framed, his ring mementos. Chris had no idea,
(28:24):
but Jason didn't know much about his dad at all.
Roger had died when Jason was just nine years old,
but Jason didn't find that out until he was in
high school, when he just so happened to stumble upon
his father's death certificate at home. Later on, he found
out through a family member that Roger had died of
(28:46):
AIDS related complications. He had always hoped to meet his
dad one day, so the discovery was a shock. He
did manage to get in contact with Roger's mother, but
she didn't give him very much information about Chris, only
that Roger had a partner when he died. Jason's search
for his dad was also a source subject at home.
(29:09):
His mom's family would shut him down anytime he asked
about his father. He was told that Roger wasn't a
great person. Chris didn't know any of this, but he
knew that one day he wanted to give Jason the
things his father had left for him.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
So, you know, I put everything that meant something to
Roger and Jason.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I put them in a box.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Roger had different things that were Jason's and they didn't
mean too much to me, but they meant something because
they meant something to Roger. I kept the box for
thirty years because I knew that I had to get
those things to Jason, and I knew that I wouldn't
be able to get those to Jason as a child.
(29:56):
How come, Well, if I remember correctly, the time that
I did talk to his ex wife, she wanted to
distance herself from the whole situation.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
So you weren't able to get to Jason.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Basically, yeah, I knew that I would somehow meet him
as an adult.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I was.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I had faith in that that I wouldn't meet up
with Jason. I didn't know how, I didn't know where
and when, but I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna
do that. I never give up hope. I just I
knew it would happen. That's why I didn't feel urgent.
I just moved ahead, knowing that at some point I
I would meet Jason.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
As the Internet became popular, Chris would sometimes search for Jason,
but he didn't have very much information to go off of.
He just had to trust the feeling that one day
they'd eventually meet. So did you ever find Jason?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
So in December twenty twenty, it was just a regular
day of you know, pandemic life. I was on Instagram
and there's an account that I followed called the AIDS Memorial.
Folks will submit a photo, photos of a loved one,
someone they cared about that passed away from AIDS, and
they write a story, a brief story, and there's thousands
(31:09):
of posts. So I'm scrolling and I see Roger's photo
and I was like, oh cool, somebody posted about Roger
and I was like wow, And I thought immediately that
it was one of his friends. And I start reading it,
and then I realized that it's Jason because he starts
talking about his dad.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Can you read the post, Chris of you don't mind?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yes, I want to honor my dad who lost his
life to AIDS. Sadly, I don't know a lot of
information about him. He passed away when I was just
a kid. His name was Roger Vasquez. My father passed
away when I was about seven years old. He had
a rough life up until then. He was trying to
discover who he was as a closeted gay man. Before
(31:56):
he died, he found a man who loved him for
who he was. That man took care of him until
he passed away in nineteen ninety. This picture is one
of the only pictures I have left of my father,
and I will cherish it. Dad, you are loved and
you are missed, Signed Jason, And so it's just one
photo of him, and Jason is a toddler and Roger's
(32:17):
holding him.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
How did you feel when you saw that post?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Well, when he started talking about me, I was in shock.
I was like, oh, immediately a lot of emotions came back.
It just it was this flood of emotion and thoughts
and memories and feelings and anything that had to do
with us over the years, all the things that I
(32:43):
missed about Roger and all the moments I wished Roger
was still alive. And so it took me about four
or five days after seeing the post for me to
process everything. It was a little difficult those few days
because it brought everything back to life. And so so
I pulled myself together. And you know, four or five
(33:04):
days later and I DM Jason and say, hi, Jason,
I saw your beautiful post about your dad Roger. I
have some information about him. Shoot me a text so
we can figure out a time to chat. Looking forward
to hearing from you, Chris, and I gave my phone number.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Oh so you you didn't say anything about you being
the lover that he was.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
To No, No, I didn't want I didn't want to like,
just like casually just put it in a DM. Wow,
and uh.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Probably that same night, he says, hello, did you know him?
I said yes, I did.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Were you close to him? And I said yes, you
can say that. And then I sent a photo of
Roger and Jason replied, Wow, that's incredible. I've always seen
the same three photos I have of him. He had
not seen that photo I sent to him. And then
I told him we were boyfriends for the last two
years of his life. I'm the one you've been looking
(33:58):
for and vice versa. And then I sent him a
photo of the two of us when we were when
we were pretty young, and he says, oh my gosh,
I've been trying to find info about you for a
long time. His mother would never give me your name,
and I'm not surprised. She was never nice to me.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So he didn't have any information about his dad, right.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
They didn't really talk well about Roger after he died.
They really didn't want anything to do with Roger.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
And they never.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Really spoke about Roger as far as I know. They
didn't speak well about him, and it was farm view
between so Jason had little information.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Despite being kept away from each other for thirty years
by both Roger's parent and Jason's parent. Fate had other plans.
Chris and Jason were both excited to finally meet. They
didn't see each other right away, though this felt like
it was going to be monumental and they didn't want
to rush anything. But on a trip back to La
(35:05):
Chris felt like this was the right time. So now
tell me about what it was like the first time
meeting Jason.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It took it about two years for us to meet
in person, and we had planned it. I was taking
a trip down to LA and I said, you know,
I ping Jason and said let's meet. Let's find a
time in a day. And he came to my friend's
house and he's like, I'm here. So I went downstairs
(35:35):
and I saw Jason. You could tell that that he
was Roger's.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Son, you know, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
And then when I hugged Jason, it felt like I
was hugging Roger. I think he's maybe even a little taller,
but it just felt like like Roger. I don't know,
maybe Roger was just there, just like you know, a
group hug. And we went down the street to go
have lunch, to just kind of like ease into what
(36:02):
we were about to get into. In Los Angeles, there's
a park and in the park there's an AIDS memorial
called Lost Memorias. The official title is Last Memorials the Wall,
So it's this wall of folks that have died of AIDS.
So I submitted Roger's name and he was part of
the first cohort of names being added to the wall.
(36:26):
The plan was also to go to the memorial at
the park so I could show Jason. And before we
went to the park, I went back to my friend's
house to grab the box of things to take them,
and so when we got to the park, I took
the box and we found a place to go sit down.
We looked at the memorial, found his name, and I
brought the box out and was pulling things out one
(36:48):
at a time.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
And giving them to him.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
And this is the first time him seeing things that
were his dad, or something that his dad touched. Even
there was one of them was a photo of the
two of them that it was a photo that Roger
put in the frame, and that photo had stayed in
there all those years, so it was exactly how Roger
left it. I explained to Jason once I gave him
(37:13):
the items, how much pain his dad was in that
he couldn't visit his son or have contact with his
son knowing that he was going to die. Like, your
dad missed you, he loved you, and it was painful.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
What was it like for you to give him the
box that you'd been holding onto for thirty years.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I felt emotional about it because I had been holding
on to this thing, this box for me, it was
a duty, it was responsibility to do that for the
two of them. Giving Jason the box and holding onto
the box of items for that long was just one
of the last things that I could do for Roger too,
(37:57):
because Roger wasn't able to have contact with Jason.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
I just felt like I had to do that. I
had to do that for Roger.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And you know, also reading Jason's story on Instagram, he
only had three photos, the same three photos over all
these years, and you know, I've got a box full
of pictures, you know, having fun and you know, pictures
of Roger with his family.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
And what was it like for Jason to receive all
of your words and the memories and the photos.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Jason was grateful, he was he was happy to have
those things again. He was, you know, gracious that that
I held onto everything and that I, you know, brought
them to him and that we found each other, and
you know that I was filling in a lot of
the story that he didn't know about his dad.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
How do you feel about Roger now, thirty plus years later,
after having this amazing experience and sort of being able
to turn the page on that chapter.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Rogers, He's just always been a constant in my life.
Even you know, I've had long term partners and they've
always known about Roger. Because I just feel like Roger's
a Guardian Angel. You know, along with my mom, I
always feel that they're with me. And you know, when
I'm doing something happier, when I'm dancing to house music,
a lot of times I think about him. You know,
(39:25):
He'll pop in my mind in different moments, like making
my mom's recipe of chicken enchiladas and and uh, you know,
I remember making them for Roger too. So it's just
all these things are sort of strung together. And I
still make those inciladas today, and so I think about
the two of them.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
I always think about them.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
But We Loved is hosted by me Jordan Gonsolves, new
episodes every Wednesday. If you want to write in to
tell your story, email us at Buttweloved at gmail dot com,
or send us a message on Instagram or TikTok at
butt we Loved. We are a production of The Outspoken
(40:31):
Podcast Network and iHeart Podcast. But We Loved was originally
developed with Pushkin Studios. Our producers are Shehina Zaki, Michael June,
Emily Meronoff, and Joey patt Our Executive producers or me,
Maya Howard and Katrina Norville. Fact checking by Marisa Brown.
Original music by Steve Boone Special thanks to Jay Brunson
(40:56):
and Markel Willis. If you loved this episode, leave us
a and follow us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and
thank you for listening. I'll see you next week.
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