May 1, 2025 ⢠60 mins
On this episode of Butternomics, our host, Brandon Butler, talks with entrepreneur and attorney Khadijah Robinson about what happens after the deal closes. Khadijah opens up about building Nile List from a spreadsheet to an acquired platform, all while balancing a high-powered legal career. She shares what most people get wrong about acquisitions, why the VC system doesn’t work for most Black founders, and what it really means to protect your peace while scaling impact. If you’re thinking about building something big, this conversation will save you years of mistakes.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Somebody came up and asked me like, well, how did
you manage your time? And I'm like, I mean, I'm
gonna be very real. I slept about four and a
half hours every day, that's it. And then I hustled.
I did not take off any weekends. I worked every
single day. Every single day I worked in some capacity
for somebody. It's not like you are going to be
(00:21):
living a wonderful, beautiful balance life if you're trying to
work and also really get out the mud with a company.
But you could do it. Everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to another episode of Button Nomics. I'm your host,
Brandon Butler, found the CEO of Butter atl And Today.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
We have a distinguished guest in the building.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I always say special guests. This guest is distinguished. Miss
it Khadija A Robinson. Kadija, how you doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I ain't in the lovely today. Don't be using no,
be using your corporate voice. Usealos. Oh you won't be
a breakout by Sabana Tarja.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh good, good good, So Kadiji. We're doing something a
little different. Normally I ask people like tell me, tell
the people who you are. But I did something a
little bit different. I've been doing this for a while
for butter nomics. Okay, I asked chat Cheapt who you are?
Oh my god, Now I'm going I ain't gonna lie
to you. This is the most information chatty tea chat
(01:21):
is a chat is giving me back about anybody, Like
You've really got like five pages in here, and you
know what.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I'm gonna read it. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So I asked chat Cheapt who is Kadeja Robinson? Based
in Atlanta, Georgia. That's all I said.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Now I'm kind of stress out, okay. Kadija A.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Robinson is a distinguished attorney, entrepreneur, and advocate for black
entrepreneurship based in Atlanta, Georgia. Raising Savannah in Montgomery, Alabama.
She pursued higher education at Spelman College, earning a Bachelor
of Arts in English. She furthered her studies with a
Master of Science and International Public Policy from the University
of College London and a Juris Doctor from Harvard Law School.
(02:00):
Robinson's professional journey includes practicing law at Covington and Berling
LLP in Washington, DC. In twenty nineteen, she founded the
Nile List, an online platform designed to connect consumers with
black owned e commerce brands. This venture was acquired by
Empower Global, led by Sean Combs, where she served as
CEO for two years, overseeing fundraising, operations and development. Currently,
(02:22):
Robinson serves as a program manager for the Center for
Black Entrepreneurship's LIFT Incubator at Morehouse College. In this role,
she leads initiatives supporting black and brown tech founders in
Atlanta's startup ecosystem. The incubator's first cohort featured fourteen companies
with top applicants receiving grant funding to propel their growth.
Beyond her work at cbe Lyft, Robinson is involved in
(02:44):
several initiatives, The Pit, a coworking space for black founders
to collaborate, share resources, and build partnerships. The Black Ambition Fund,
an inaugural Entrepreneur in residence for Pharrell's Black Ambition Fund,
which she mentors black and LATINX founders gar guiding semi
finalists and finalists competing for significant fundraising prizes and fictive ventures.
(03:06):
Serving as general partner at this venture fund, Robinson invests
in early stage black startups, addressing the racial funding gap
and enabling broader participation from black investors. Additionally, Robinson offers
fractional chief operating officer and consulting services and startups seeking
to enhance their operations and scalability. Her expertise spans operations, strategy,
(03:29):
legal analysis, and product development. Robinson also owns super Host
Management Services, a company specializing in transforming properties into profitable
short terminals in Atlanta. Her dedication to community extends to
serving on the board of Students of Students Without Mothers
and Atlanta based nonprofit providing support and resources to college
bound students who have lost their mothers. And throughout her
(03:52):
multi faceted endeavors, Kadeja Robinson continues the champion economic empowerment
and create equitable opportunities for underrepresented founders and communities.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Damn chat GPT, No mean I want to say that, like, OK,
cause me feeling about so so how much of that
was true? That was That's crazy. It's always when they
pulled out the super host to that's crazy. I literally
(04:23):
like that's I have what I call my professional businesses
and like my main life and then my side businesses
that are like these are things that make money over here.
And so yeah, I have a I started rental property,
like my own airbnbs and then started this company to
manage other people's Airbnbs. And like, that's so random because
(04:47):
I don't talk about that at all. Know that I
didn't know that. I look telling you, chat knows, the
chat knows that's crazy. So yeah, that's me. Well, I mean,
but let's see because it was super professional and like, yeah,
I'm from Savannah Seaport all day. I am a Georgia girl,
and I am like, oh, the term that we used
(05:09):
to use back in the day was sophistic ratchet. Okay,
so like I love aa E bowls and I can
eating poke and sushi because I'm real classy or whatever.
But then I be like, oh, y'all, let's go to
Jr Creeky. It's about balance at midnight because it be
hiding and I remember when the Jr Creek is that
(05:30):
burnt down over by the Varsity used to have the
best oat group.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, look, jail creeksa at midnight as a whole. There's
a whole experience it within itself. Like I know that's
when I normally go.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
And then we be having a time. I be in
there eating so yes, well, look that that is a
that was a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Again, I think that's the longest introduction Chat has given
me about anybody. But when you're at a party where
nobody knows you, how do you introduce yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
You know, if I'm at a party, I just be
talking shit and I just like, oh, yeah, I'm Codizially,
I'm from Savannah. I went to Spellman and it's so
funny because I was just telling so I decided I'm
suing my plumber. Okay last week. Last week, I was like,
you know what, I've had a note with his knee girl,
(06:20):
and so I am suing my plumber. And I was
talking to my dad and my sister and when I
was telling him what was going on, they were like, dude,
he know that you're a lawyer. And I'm like, no,
I'm pretty sure he don't, because I don't think that
the majority of people that just interact with me casually
in day to day life now know that I am
a lawyer with to Harvard Law School too, right, No,
(06:42):
none of that and be like, oh that can easy.
What's up? So I can't and they don't know, like
it's just not what I lead with necessarily, and so yeah,
I was like, I don't think the plumber knows what's
coming for him, but I'm about to mess his ass
up in court because I'm tired of these ghetto games.
(07:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was telling somebody a couple of weeks ago. I
was like, I like to suit people like because I
can't argue with y'all sometimes like I've I've you know,
I'm sorry, Like I can argue so much, but at
a certain point it's like, you know what, I can
go to civil court, I can file and then I
ain't gotta talk to you no more. You can talk
to the judge, you can explain your side to them.
And so I tell people all the time it's like,
(07:23):
look like I don't have a problem with it.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
It's there. Is there for a reason. As a distinguished
gentleman once say, I ain't going back and forth with you.
I'm not. I'm not like I got somebody right now.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I'm like, if you don't send me this thing when
you say you go, see the next time, I'm gonna
block you. And the next thing you're gonna hear from me
is is the is the process server showing up at
your house?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And finally, a small claims court is not hard. Oh no,
they'll actually walk you through it, right, They'll actually tell me.
I have worked in small claims court, volunteering to help
people file lawsuits. As it's thirty and I literally like,
put this on the paper. Okay, you just staple this together.
You go put that Okay, now you got Now you
know where they live, okay, right, their address, and then
(08:08):
this person gonna serve them. That's fifty dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, boom, It's easy, you know. So o hey, look,
I'm just telling you so okay.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now, So I'm in a suing ass mood this year.
So everybody who's pissed me off for the last few
years is about to be serves this year. And I
have two lawsuits teed up, and one of them I'm like,
I literally went back to an email that really pissed
me off, and I took everybody on that email chain,
and I'm suing them all individually. So IM about to
(08:36):
fuck everybody twenty twenty five. Uck, I got time, you
know what. I got time, and I got dollars reach
one of y'all. I have had enough. You don't want
to respond to my email, don't worry about it. Don't worry.
So you know, that's a good transition.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You we were talking off loud of you talking about
this book you read call Surrounded by Idiots.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Who. What was your biggest takeaway from that book? So
the goal the book is supposed to describe these different
behavioral archetypes. It categorizes people into four different archetypes. You
can be a red, a blue, a green, or yellow,
and it's supposed to help you understand people's behavior based
(09:21):
on their archetype and how you can interact with them better,
how you can work with them better and hopefully like
get along with less friction. So when I saw it,
I was like, surrounded by idiots. Yes, I need that
because I am, in fact surrounded by idiots. People are dumb.
And I read the book and I think it was
(09:42):
very helpful because there are I do fall prey to
the ideology that like, if you're not doing it the
way that I would do it, then it does not
make sense. So I know that I recognize that about myself.
So I did get a little bit of enlightenment, like, Okay,
you know I'm a red, very very very clear read
Apparently we real aggressive ass motherfuckers and we just be like,
(10:05):
let's get the shit, done you doing all this talking
and we need to be doing the thing. So we're
very much like that. We are very cut and dry.
So a lot of people will be like, like Kadesian
even say thank you. I will say I am the
type of person who will send an email and whatever
I want is in the subject line and there's nothing
(10:27):
in the body and you just need to do the
thing and respond to the email, like yeah, that's it.
That's it. I'm not gonna be like, Hi, good morning,
how are you hope as well? You know, for well
email subjects, you know. So I'm that type of person.
It was helpful in the sense the understanding that some
(10:49):
people are different. However, there are still a lot of
stupid people. So I'm like, how do you deal with
people who, Okay, I'm they might be a blue but
then they're actually just still dumb, which is a lot
of people, Like we have a literacy crisis in America.
We do have a literacy crisis one, and especially amongst
(11:11):
the black community. Like I was going, I used to
be heavy on Twitter before Elon took it over and
like messed up the whole vibe. And I was going
back and forth with some black magamite, and they were like,
you know, black kids can't even read. We need to
focus on that before we focus on X. And I
(11:33):
was like, before I argue with somebody, I go and
research the facts to make sure that what I am
saying is actually based in fact. And when I went
and started looking up the literacy rates among the black children,
I was like, no, they really can't read. We really
can't read. They really can't read. Like half of black
kids in eighth grade are not literate. And I was
(11:55):
like wait what. So I was shook, and then I
was like, oh, everything makes so much more sense. As
I'm going about life and I'm interacting with people, I'm like, oh,
of course this is the way it is because you
can't read, so like duh, you know, Like I just
(12:17):
why would I expect anything different? Y'all negirls already literally
and I hate it for us and I want it
to be better. But I think it helps me temper
my expectations when I just already know that I'm about
to be walking into illiteracy.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I used to intern and work in radio for a while,
and I remember a very very well known radio host
who I was talking to, and I think he told me,
this is a long time ago. He was like, yeah,
like most people read it like best to like a
sixth grade level. And he was like, so you just
even when we when we put stuff together, like we
have to put it together because honestly, Brandon, like a
lot of people aren't gonna get this. We're talking about
(12:55):
the masses and that scale. And I think a lot
of times like we get in our bubbles. You know,
we got our friend is everybody's college educated and everybody,
and you know we got cousins too. You know, I've
got some cousins that but you know a lot of
times too when you don't think about it. And so
even I even put that into like a lot of
stuff that we do from a content and copy standpoint,
like not that you gotta dumb it down, but you
gotta simplify some things, right because if you really want
(13:15):
to catch fire, like it's got to be. I mean,
even when you look at just how the thing kind
of things go viral, like how things are like written
and positioned, it's like, yeah, like this is like at
a this this isn't this isn't like NBA or like
you know, you know, legal level, this is like ABC
one two three, bruh.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And I had to I had to even get myself
from like going back and forth with people online because
I'm like, wait a minute, you don't even know the
difference between there what an apostrophe and there like possess it?
Why about arguing with you? You don't know weather versus weather,
so you know, Oh my god, I'd be thinking about
(13:54):
in the dating context, I think about is Brandon because
I realized that I require a certain level of intelligence
in dating. When I was dating this guy, and this
is when I lived in DC. He was taking me
back home and he was like my GPS telling me,
(14:14):
y'all need to turn off Arkansas. And I was like, ooh, Arkansas.
That would be Arkansas. But you know, I'm not gonna
get I'm not gonna be too down on you because
if you ain't never said it, which means that you
never were in social STUDI it must have been handsome.
Then you don't know it's arc It's not Arkansas. It's Arkansas, Okay.
(14:36):
But then the first time this man entered my house
when he was taking me home the same trip, he
comes in and I have bookshelves with books, I read
a lot. I've always read a lot. I had a
book blog back in the day that was like my
little hobby. I'm in a book club and he walking,
he walks like, oh, you be reading now. I was like, yeah,
(15:06):
I'd be reading. Dennis Man proceeded to tell me with
his full chest, I ain't never read a whole book
in my life. And I was like, I can tell.
And then he got mad, and I was like, I
was just agreeable what you said. It's evident I wish
I was this handsome. It's evident you ain't never read
an old book. It was this from your bords. That
(15:30):
was the last time we saw. Definitely definitely hadn't read
of Matt before. Bro. This man said our Kansas and
I was like, oh my god. So yeah, the again,
it's hard on here in the street, business, personal everything.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
When did you decide to like the corporate route you
want to kind of focus go on entrepreneurship. How did
you start to make that pivot?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Oh gosh, So when I was in law school, I
already hated it, and then I was like, I'm just
gonna graduate and work with all these same people, Like
we're all going to the same law firms. So that's
gonna be real lame and lo and behold it was Laane.
Soh god, you know what, I had an epiphany. I
(16:25):
had been going through all of these spaces growing up.
I was in the Magnet programs. I was always in
this like little group of smart kids. But even amongst
that group, I was always the smartest. So then I
go to Spelman. And when I went to Spelman, my
dad he's a professor, so he was like, you know,
(16:47):
this is not like high school. It's gonna be more
rigorous and things are gonna get hard. And I was like, okay,
get to college. I'm waiting for things to get hard.
They don't get hard. So then I go do my man,
I don't. I was just I was in London. That
was my party year, and I was outside, so I
did not apply myself at all. I wrote my entire dissertation,
(17:11):
which was like eighty pages in like a week, got
my master's cool, went to Harvard. I'm in law school,
and at that point I'm like, Okay, I am going
to Harvard. This is the time at which I have
to apply myself. I am going to be surrounded by
(17:32):
the smartest people from wherever they're from. This is like
the cream of across. And I got there and I
was like, this is I know you lying. I'm looking
around in these classrooms and I'm like, you're not. I mean,
it's not a whole bunch of us. It's not a
(17:53):
whole bunch of black folks, obviously, so this coming isn't
even really about us. It's really the white majority. I
was like, you're not smart. You're white. You had tutors
your whole life, you had your parents investing thousands of
dollars into your lsat prap class and they basically strong
(18:17):
armed and shoehorned you in to this group of people.
But I know so many negroes in Savannah, Georgia who
ain't never left the city limits of Savannah from Yamacrol Village,
who's smarter than you, But they ain't never had nobody
paying for their education, they ain't never been to nobody
private school, they never been nobody capling class. So they're
(18:40):
not here at Harvard, but y'all are. And it would
be these same people that I'm like, Bro, you mediocre
as hell. Your parents just have money. And then you
got the nerve to turn around and be talking about meritocracy.
Are you serious? You're stupid bruh. So I just got
really really pissed, Like when I tell you next level,
(19:00):
my blood pressure high while I was in law school
because I was like, these people are dumb, and then
they about to come out and run the world, and
they're gonna continue to perpetuate this same ideology. They think
they got here on merit so then they're gonna be
go over here talking about and we see it now
they all like mad about DEI. I'm like, baby, you
are DEI. Let me tell you about how you got
(19:22):
into these spaces through money and means and a level
of structure and support and all the other things that
you need to do well academically and do well in
life that a lot of us never had. So it's
not like you literally just inherently are smart. You got
here with help, but now you are upset about the
(19:43):
other help that other folks are getting. So I got
real pissed. I got to my law firm. It was
extremely white corporate America, and I was upset the whole
time I was there. I was keeping like a little file.
I was literally just keeping my EOC file like in
case I just come and tell y'all about y'allselves. I
(20:06):
know they were so happy when I left. I just
know because I raised hell every single year I was there,
like why are y'all doing this? Why y'all don't have
a diversity a chief diversity officer, all of this stuff.
So I hated the law firm. I got there my
first year and I was already like how do I
get out of here? And I applied for a clerkship, which,
(20:28):
because of how competitive it is to clerk with the
Federal Court judge, we were on application cycles that were
two years out. So I applied in twenty sixteen and
interviewed and got a job that did not start for
two years. So I started that job in twenty eighteen
and it's a year long appointment to clerk with the judge.
(20:49):
And while I was clerking, I started my first company,
which was super haphazard because when I was doing it,
I just was like, this is my hobby on the side,
and I really don't even know how it really came
to life as a business, but yeah, it just kind
of grew. And what was that first company? That was
(21:11):
the nihilistic? That was okay? So I started with a
Google spreadsheet, and I was like, I am saving in
this spreadsheet black owned brands that I want to shop with.
I want to buy black. I'm trying to buy black
as much as possible. And I got super like militant.
I've always been very militant like my parents. Like when
(21:33):
I grew up, when I went to school for the
first time and they was singing a national anthem. I
was like, what is the song? I had never heard
this somebody, and they were like, this is the national anthem.
I was like, no, it's not lift every voice and
sing it's the national anthom like what. I had literally
never heard the US national anthem in my life, and
(21:56):
I thought the black national anthem was a national anthem.
We were black as hell, Like we went through a
Rites of Passage program. We celebrated kwanto. We didn't celebrate
Christmas like my parents were og black. They used to
be wearing dice shaky sits a professor to professor of history.
(22:22):
So I grew up like not eating pork, the white
man meat like all kinds of stuff. We were so militant.
I literally tell people like, y'all do not know how
I grew up the childhood games that we used to
play were like mancla bruh b like literally like African
(22:43):
American bingo. That's what we used to play at home.
So I was always militant, but then I clerked and
I got extreme. I turned into like prison abolitionists. Police
need to be defunded. Like I became extreme, we militant,
which it will do it to you, like go sit
in a courtroom every day for a year and see
(23:07):
the revolving door of black people and the way that
they are treated in this system, and you will become
militant af because it's crazy. And so my stress reliever
was like I am going not stress reliever but like
hobby and kind of stress reliever. Actually was like I
(23:27):
am going to focus outside of work on what I
can do for black people, and I be shopping online,
so at minimum, I'm gonna spend my money with black entrepreneurs.
And that was literally how the nohlist started. I started
putting people in a Google spreadsheet, and then I started
telling people about it, and they were like, oh, I
(23:48):
want to buy black You got anybody on your list
that cells swimsuits? I'm like kid swimsuits. I got people,
got batteries deodorant, all of the above, and like this jewelry,
everything with the except of my watch is from a
black company. Different ones too, So everybody in black like
and I got really, really, really just into finding different
(24:11):
black owned companies promoting them. I built a website, we
built an app, and we were just kind of in
the right place at the right time because we launched it.
It was all for online shopping with black brands. And
we launched March first, twenty twenty. Oh that's my birthday.
That's why it was. You know, that's Pisce's gang. Yep,
(24:33):
and I'm ripping Pisces. But yeah, we launched March first,
twenty twenty, and then two weeks later, everybody was at
home shopping online, so we were well positioned for that.
And then three months later everybody was trying to support
black people because they murdering like they always do. And
then it was just like a very non linear, unexpected
(24:56):
I had no way of forecasting that, like my little
side project was gonna become what it did, but then
it did. Then I was like, do so to the
lawyer life. I'm an entrepreneur going on now. I I
(25:16):
was negotiating my acquisition for my company while I was
still practicing law at my law firm. And the day
after I signed my deal for this company to be sold,
I resigned and I sent out an email to everybody,
(25:41):
and I got so many responses for people who were like,
I have never seen a departure email like this in
my life, because it was so normal at the law
firm for everybody to like at all and send out
a departure like, oh, thank you so much for my
time here. It was lovely. I value all of my
(26:02):
wonderful colleagues. My journey continues. Yeah, this is where you
can find me next. And I basically was like, I
don't want to find none of y'all, motherfuckers. I oh, y'all,
don't call me. Fuck everybody. I ain't doing shit else
for anybody unless you black bye. I did it more
(26:23):
pc than that, but that was the extreme overtone, and
people were like calling my office phone like since I'm dying,
I'm like, wait, I am who I am? So? How
did that hold?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So you ended up getting reached out to you and
started working with Combs Enterprises now Golash.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Nothing crazy.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
We're just going to say you know that you was
part of that group, Like, and then what you you
you were so you were still working at the law
firm when when the acquisition happened, So you were doing
both these at the same time up until you completely
exited that business.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I built and sold my first company while still working
at my law firm. Oh see, that's a superpower to
a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'll just say that, just kind of say like, because
a lot of people think they got to go completely
all in, and I'm just telling people you can do
both at the same time. It's actually, if it could
work out, right, it actually makes a lot of sense
to kind of have that additional little safety net while
you're building something, not just going all in and hoping
it all works out.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Oh yeah, I've never been one, and I know even
other investors who are like, no, you got to be
full time entrepreneur for me to invest in you. And
I'm like, br I'm not trying to give a little
bit of money to somebody who out here starving and
scraping otherwise because they're not focused. You can't be over
here focused on building your startup if you trying to
figure out how you gonna pay rent this month. So
(27:38):
I definitely don't have a problem with people working a
job and also building their company. But I also and
I know you mentioned the pit earlier. We do coworking
days and we bring together black entrepreneurs, work together, do
hot seat sessions. We do a bunch of programming for
black startup founders in Atlanta, And we had a coworking
(28:01):
day last week and I was like, listen, I don't
have no sympathy for people who are like, oh, I
you know I'm working in trying to build this company
because I built, bootstrapped, built scaled by myself, only person
working in a company, and then sold an entire company.
(28:24):
So I don't want to hear you ain't had time
to do this. I'm like, bruh. Somebody came up and
asked me, like, well, how did you manage your time?
And I'm like, I mean, I'm gonna be very real.
I slept about four and a half hours every day,
that's it. Yeah, And then I hustled. I did not
take off any weekends. I worked every single day. Every
(28:44):
single day. I worked in some capacity for somebody myself
or the law firm. So like, it's not like you
are going to be living a wonderful, beautiful balance life
if you're trying to work and also really get out
the mud with a company. But you could do it.
You can do it as possible.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And yeah, I think again, you see the you know,
you see the influences online with their morning routines and
you know they're over here, and I'm like, no, no,
that ain't what it's like. Like again, I'm look, I know,
trust me. I was up last night working on stuff
till actually I had an emergency call because something happened.
So I was literally on the phone with a you know,
PR team till like twelve thirty. Then you know, I slept,
(29:25):
you knows, about five am this morning, got up, sent emails,
got my kids out the door, came back home, got
on immediately, two calls for two hours, through some water
on my face, shutting the shower, and drove down here.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I mean, that's what it's like.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And then you know what, I'm gonna do it this
evening too, and then this weekend I'm gonna be working
on stuff and like, yeah, like when you get to
a certain point, and maybe, but I think even for
certain I think for like real entrepreneurs too at least,
but people are like working like I don't even necessarily
see a place where I'm just not doing anything. I
think at a minimum, I'll probably ramp down. I'd like
to have something where at a certain point it's like,
you know, a couple hours on the week or something
(30:01):
more of a passion project. But right now, YO, were working, we're.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Working, we grinding. And that's what I said. That's when
I think about who I invest in and when I
think about who I spend my energy on. I have
like two really big criteria for entrepreneurs, Like you got
to number one, be willing to get it out the mudd.
That's why we call the organization that we built the pit,
(30:26):
Like are you going to get in the pit and
build this shit? Yeah? You not building it from the rafters,
Like this shit ain't cute, it's not like oh even entrepreneur,
it's like bruh. Sometimes you fighting for your life in
that pit, but you're making it happy. And then also,
you cannot be hard headed, because it's a lot of
(30:48):
hard headed people out here who don't listen to shit
and then be trying to understand why the stuff they're
doing doesn't work. And I'm like, I mean, if you
had to listen when somebody told you that that wasn't
gonna work and you should think about doing it this
way and maybe a different place. So yeah, I was
very big on seeking out other people when I was
(31:10):
starting up, in starting in my journey, seeking other people
who could help me, who had advice, who had been there,
done that, built stuff. And then I was in the trenches.
I was a corporate lawyer. By the time I left,
I was making over three hundred thousand dollars at my
law firm, and that did not stop me from bootstrapping
(31:32):
the hell out of my company. In my Jimmy choos
walking around with my clipboard. I would go out on
weekends and canvas at different events and be like, I
ain't building this, Can I sign you up for the
mailing list? Going up talking to people at different black
business like pop ups and stuff, being like can you
(31:54):
will you consider getting on my platform? And I was
out here like us talking to people literally walking around
with my little produ bag, like let me get you
to sign up, like the little Humane Society people to
be trying to like Lady and Kroger trying to get
me a sign off rat and t That was me.
That was me, And now folks want to just be like, oh,
(32:17):
I've got to turn on some Facebook as I'm like, bruh, nah,
you gotta get out there.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
When I started Buttering, I remember, you know, because I
didn't even really do social media personally, so like for me,
a thousand followers was like all the people in Atlanta,
you know. I remember when we had our launch party.
I just remember saying like, if we can just get
the three hundred followers by the launch party, like this
thing is gonna be lit. I think we got like
the three oh five and I was like, oh, yeah,
we going crazy, you know what I'm saying. But I
remember we got like a thousand followers because I have
(32:56):
a background in like engineering and product management too, right,
Like I literally set out an email one day and
was like and I saw a survey to like our
followers on ig and I was like, look, fill this out,
like I want to know why y'all follow Butter. And
the very last question was if you don't mind if
I call you, what's your phone number? And I probably
got to maybe about thirty or forty people the game,
and I literally called them and people were like wow,
(33:19):
I'm like, yeah, I want to know, Like I want
to understand, like what made you follow this social media
account and like what are we doing with like people
Like I'm like, yeah, it literally takes like that level
of work, you know what I mean, actually get in
and want to understand and like I say that like
hand hand com bit. I like when you talk about
the pit. Like one of my favorite books is this
book by Seth Golden called The Dip, and it kind
of talks about the same thing. It says, you know,
(33:40):
when you get ready to start anything, it's almost like
you're on a cliff. Right, whether you're graduating college and
graduate high school, about to go to college, or you're
ready to start a business, you're on this cliff and
everybody's like, congratulations, you did it. It's about to be amazing.
And look over that edge and there's there's a dip.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
There's a pit.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
There's a valley, right and once you get into that valley.
But he basically talks about is He's like, look, if
you don't want to do the work to get out
the other side, it's okay to quit. But at the
same time, once you're in there, you gotta go. You've
got to figure out how to get up the other
side of this mountain and get up back to the
other side.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
So again, I think about it again when you talk
about the pit getting it out, like you get all
the again, like you know, the world is really good
at congratulating founders. I think I think things that aren't
really worth congratulating All the time they found out you
were raising a bunch of money, it's like great, now
you're in.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Now you owe people a bunch of money. Now you've
got their money and they got.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Xpect Now they can call you and be like, so
what you're doing? You know they or they hit you
for these or you started something. They say, great, now
you're not gonna be up You're gonna be staying up
that all night trying to build this thing. But they
don't see like that messy middle part, right, And I think,
you know, I don't know. I think we got to
like flip that around a little bit more. But even
in going through that process, like what are some of
the biggest lessons you learn going through an acquisition, because
(34:52):
a lot of people want to get to that part,
and you know, I don't think they really understand how
many deals fall apart in the acquisition process because you
don't have paperwork together, or you know, just things again,
things happen, right, Like, what are some of the biggest
things you learned just going through that acquisition process?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Oh gosh, okay, So the biggest thing that I talked
to the entrepreneurs about is like, what do you actually
want out of an acquisition? Now that I'm older and wiser,
I very strongly believe that I will not again in
my life sell a company and myself with it. I'm
(35:28):
not coming. So whatever it is that you want, it
got to be in the company itself. Yeah, I'm not
coming to work for you. I actually only know one
founder who's ever had a good experience with the company
that they sold to, going in and actually working in
that company as a part of the acquisition. Everybody else
(35:52):
in the startup round typically is put on a vesting
schedule once they get right to the acquiring company. And
what that means is you any equity that you get
in the new company vest over the course of typically
four years. So if you sell your company and you
(36:13):
sell it for a mix of cash and also equity
in the new company, Let's say Coca Cola buys your
company and they buy it for a million dollars and
half of it is cash and half of it is
equity in Coca Cola, and that equity vest over four years,
then at any point before four years is up, you
(36:36):
actually do not have five hundred thousand dollars worth of
equity in Coca Cola. You only have how much has
vested over time. Vesting can happen on a monthly schedule,
cappen on a quarterly schedules, sometimes even rarely capp it
on a yearly schedule, which means they usually also put
in a cliff, a one year cliff, which means in
that first year, if you like, oh this shit sucks,
(36:58):
I'm out, you don't get any all. You lose it
all because you didn't make it off the flip. So
I again, I only know one founder who's actually even
made it to the four year schedule. Everybody else I
know did not even stay for four years to get
(37:20):
all their equity. And the point at which you are
either kicked out, which happens a lot a lot, or
you are like, I just got to get out of here,
and you're willing to leave money on the table because
you have unvested equity. You can just imagine what the
(37:40):
experience is like in that place. So going forward, I'm like,
I might give people like a couple months transition to
make sure everything is in place, and then I'm out.
I ain't selling nothing else where. I got to be
working there because it's it's crazy out here in East Yes,
I always tell people that and also work backwards. What
(38:04):
do you need to get out of an acquisition? And
understand that from the very beginning of building a company,
And I ask founders out all the time. So like
I work with Black Ambition and I had a goal
setting and strategy a strategic planning session for Black Ambition founders,
and one of the things I did with them was like, Okay,
(38:24):
where do you want this company to end up? Ultimately?
For the people who are like I want to sell it,
I'm like, okay, do you want to work again after?
Like are you going to go get another job? Are
you going to go do something else? Build another company?
A couple of people are like, I don't want to
have to, and I'm like, okay, how much money do
you need to live for the rest of your life
without working at all? Ever? Again? So oh, maybe they
(38:50):
ain't even thought that far. And I'm like, if you
think that this sale of this company is going to
pay for the entire rest of your life, you need
to have a number in mind and you need to
be building towards that. So if you know you need
twenty million dollars to live how you want to live
for the rest of your life, then you better make
sure when you walk away from that company that you
(39:12):
got twenty million dollars a yo pocket yep. Which means again,
like you said, people be raising all this money and
that's real cute or whatever. But if you brought in
all these investors and they own fifty percent of the
company and you can only sell that company for twenty million, baby,
you're not leaving out there with twenty million, right, because
they own fifty percent, you get in ten. That's it.
(39:36):
So I definitely when I started my company, my first company,
I did not have my exit in mind because I
was just stumbling into entrepreneurship. And now anything that I'm
building or working on, I'm like, bro, what's the end
go for this? Right? What are we doing this for?
Cause I ain't about to be going back and forth
with you niggas whatever, Okay, Like no, So that is
(40:02):
my key advice that and like just get the bookkeeper
real early and be doing the financial statements. People don't
have P and L, don't have balance sheet. Folks don't
even know how much money they are spending in their
business regularly. And it's one person I always make sure
I pay. That's the bookkeeper. Yeah, all the time. And
I'm like, every month, I want to see my balance sheet.
(40:24):
I want to see P and L. I want to
see what's actually going on and actually understand. Like even
last year, I was like, I need to spend some
money because the taxes are about to be interesting. So
I know in December, going into December, I got to
get these business expenses in a lou I'm like, I
need to go see some clients in California by this
(40:45):
ticket making business class. You know. So just being able
to actually plan cash flow huge a lot of people. Yeah,
a lot of people who are making money still go
out of business or mess themselves because they don't know
what their cash flow is like and they don't have
a process for actually managing cash flow.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
So yeah, one of my favorite of jay Z lines,
he says, who deserves the Medal of Freedom? My accountant.
I'm like y'all gonna play that part again, Like, y'all
don't understand. He's like the Federal Allies would have been
had the townhouse surrounded, you know what I mean. But no,
it's like, you got to understand these things. And I
(41:26):
agree with you one hundred percent. Like I think that's
a hard lesson I had to learn early on too.
It's like you got to get the books right, especially one,
just so you understand what you're doing, what's kind of
going in and going out. Even on a personal level,
you gotta have your own kind of personal p and
L but specifically for business, but especially if you want
to actually sell a business. There's a lot of things
that fall apart at closer to finish line because you
don't have your paperwork together.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I spent hours with my accountant putting retroactively getting all
of my financial statements together in preparation for this acquisition
because I did not have that shit together. Yeah, and
I had to get all these documents and I was like,
oh my god, never again. Now, baby, I could download
(42:08):
that thing for quick, but was right now up to date.
I got a buddy. I got a buddy of mine.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
He actually came on and he was kind of saying
something similar where when him and his wife built their business,
they actually did a lot of the upward upfront work
with having an accountant. So when they actually got acquired,
he's like, it took like six weeks, which is crazy
when you think.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
About the amount of time.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
He was like, but the reason why is because I
had everything lined up. There weren't no crazy deals. I
had all the paperworking in place, and we just pulled it.
They verified everything, and like he was like, the deal
was done in like six weeks, And I mean, that's
the benefit of that stuff, right.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I'm working with an entrepreneur now who does not have
any document storage system. I'd be asking forseff He's like,
I gotta go back and find it in my email,
and I'm like, bruh, bruh.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Well, look, you're working with these folks, and that's one
of the because you now you have a venture fund
I do, and you know, we know that there's a
lot of challenge, especially for black founder, especially black women founder,
is getting access to capital. You know, like, what's one
of the biggest misconceptions that people have about, you know,
just fundraising at this level, especially on the VC side.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So the reason that my partner and I started as
venture fund is because we wanted to change the landscape adventure.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions about venture capital
is that it is a good, positive step in the
right direction for your company, and usually it's not for us.
(43:38):
And I've been telling these black founders, I like, if
you at all can avoid raising venture, avoid it. This
landscape is predatory. It is like, it's worse than payday loans.
But they've glamorized it so much that these supposed to
(44:00):
be what looking at Forbes and tech Crunch and thinking
this is the goal, And I'm like, bruh, do you
know what founders deal with after they take adventure for
their company? The road to get there, I think is
so arduous for so many of us. It's so hard
that we view it as an accomplishment in itself. But
(44:20):
raising money is not an accomplishment. That just means that
you have brought in money that your business couldn't bring
in the revenue in order to grow, and now you
actually got to grow. That's the hard part. Yeah, a
lot of people don't grow. So a lot of times,
(44:42):
like investing adventure is considered risky because of the number
of companies that go out of business. I think, I
think that there are so many reasons why companies go
out of business. But in a startup space, a lot
of times them people didn't never have no business even
starting a company with whatever they do, but they convinced
somebody to give them some money to turbocharge, and now
(45:06):
they're selling the most ridiculous nonsense stuff that nobody asked for.
Who asked for this? I ask founders all the time,
and they gets so offended viscerally when I'm like, well,
who asked for this? I this is a I just
came up with it because I'm solving my own problem.
They'd like to say it out the time. I'm solving
(45:27):
my own problem. Okay, well, how many of yous is
it in the world people have the same problem? Bruh,
And I'm just like y'all becoming any of y'all wonder
why their own work. So, first of all, venture is predatory.
Second of all, it puts you on a timeline. A
venture fund and this is specific to venture investing, which
(45:48):
is a subset of the investment that you can bring
into a company. But venture capital funds have a life.
The fund usually lives for ten years, typically eight to
ten years. They need to pay back the people who
invested in the venture fund at the end of that
time period. So if that venture fund launched two years
(46:12):
ago and they are on an eight year life and
they invest in you, well, now you got six years
and make some shit shape and a venture capitalists typically
only gets their money back if there is a liquidity
event in a company. Liquidity event means you ipo, you
go public on a stock exchange, or you sell the company.
(46:35):
Those are the two liquidity events. Now people are starting
to do more with secondaries so that you don't necessarily
have to sell, but they sell their equity to somebody
else in a secondary market. But there doesn't have to
necessarily be a liquidity event with the company. But typically
liquidity event like you ipo or you sell, that's it.
(46:57):
So if you are in you got six years and
we in year five and you are over here like, oh,
you know we're doing this and we're growing study, But
then's your capitalists that invested their money. He was like,
we need to sell them. You're a wrap it up
where's a wrap it up box? Like you need to
(47:20):
wrap this up? And they will force you to wrap
it up if they have a certain level of control
in your company and seats or your board. These vcs
don't have no qualms about putting your ass out if
you don't want to get with the program and putting
somebody in. And for us, it's usually some white boy,
(47:41):
that day homeboy that comes to replace you, and they
gonna make sure this shit gets sold within the next year.
Whatever they gotta do to strong arm it so they
get their money back. That's what they need to do,
or they'll make you close the cobbedy down and they'll
write it off on their taxes, which is better then
a little bit of money gonna get them back. So
(48:02):
they're like, oh, we've rather this thing closed down, and
they will shut you down. So that is the typical
landscape adventure. Not to mention, only zero point four percent
of all venture capital dollars last year went to black
leg companies, so like, not even a whole percent. I
(48:22):
say point four, not four point four, so not even
half a percent, So we struggling to raise when we
do raise. They got us on a leash literally and
they be walking us like dogs on at leash. And
then four percent of investors are black, so we not
(48:44):
getting in on the other side of the table either.
And what that means is when these companies do have
liquidity events, when they ipo, when they exit, we are
not partaking in that. When Uber IPOs and when and
Calling Lee is acquired, we are not seeing that because
(49:07):
there are so few of us who're investing. So we
launched this fund to really address the gap in a
holistic way, the gap with investors, the gap with companies,
and also because I very strongly believe after having sat
in the courtroom for a year in addition to practice
(49:28):
of law, when I got radicalized, I realized that we
can't just put black people in the same place that
white people were and then think that things are going
to all of a sudden change. Just because it's a
black judge and a black bailiff and two black lawyers
in the courtroom don't mean that nigga not going to jail.
So I mean, I hate to say it like that,
(49:52):
but it is what it is. So in VC, I
don't think that we can just raise a fund as
black people with black people and invest in black people
and then everything's gonna be gravy. We also have to
change how we invest. We're coming in extremely early because
(50:13):
typically before people go to VC funders, they will raise
a family and friends round Black people do not be
having family and friends what capital to put it, So
we not raising a couple hundred that we're not Jeff
Bezos where our parents gave us a couple hundred thousand
to get started. So we're trying to solve that. We're
(50:33):
coming in earlier, and then we're also flexible with how
we invest, so we're using different tools. We will do
some debt investing, so investing on a convertible note as
opposed to just pure equity in the beginning, or using
a royalty or like revenue share basis to invest in
some companies so that we get paid back when that
(50:57):
company starts generating revenue from their revenue, as opposed to
we are taking this level of ownership and you have
to exit in order to pay us back. So we're
trying to reinvigorate and reorient this model so that it
actually works for us, because there's a lot of black
folks that don't want to exit. They don't want to
(51:17):
sell this company in ten years. We've big on trying
to find our way to generational wealth, and a lot
of people feel like what they're building is their legacy.
They want to be able to build that or run
a for an extended period of time potentially pass that on.
So how do we get financing to those people too?
Those are the things that we're thinking about, Like, we
(51:40):
can't just do what they've done and expect that it's
just gonna work for us.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
And real quick, I just had to go back and
look point four If you know what, point four percent
of a billion dollars is four million dollars?
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Zero point four percent? And can you believe that some
folks out there are suing funds that are focused on
black people because they don't want us to get the
point four percent. I'm like, we barely even get shit,
and they don't even want us say that. So you
know what I realized when these lawsuits and when this
anti DEI push came, Like I conceptually knew that because
(52:25):
I grew up radical, when I grew up in Savannah,
Georgia slash Montgomery, Alabama. The bus boycott started there and
they needed to come back because these people are just braces, bruh.
They was busting. John Lewis on the head, and I
promised you if he were alive, these people would be
ready to bust him on the head today. So we're
not out of that era. But what I really had
(52:48):
to come to grips with when I like, when this
anti DEI push really came about, and when all these
lawsuits started happening in the VC space, so that they
actually don't want us to have anything. Anything that we
have is too much. They don't want us to have shit.
(53:09):
So when they see us with our little.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
Point four percent of a pie, they're like, not on
my watch, Like what who let the next slip by?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Like it's legitimately? How I imagine that these people are
thinking and then O, Peter, what's up? Like well everything
needs to be decided or married and be like okay,
well how about this. This black company was better than
yours and that's why I'm putting money into them. Oh
the hold on. I'd be like, baby, I'm telling you
(53:48):
my blood. Every day I just wake up and shake
my head like this is America. But but yeah, we
we're we are trying to do something that hasn't been
done before, bringing this number of black investors into a fund,
bringing this type of capital to black entrepreneurs at the
earliest stage, at idea plus stage, so you don't have
(54:11):
to have built anything yet to get funding from us,
which has been accessible for the tech bros and you know,
the college drop out with an idea before, but not
for us. And we're trying to shake some shit up.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I love it, love it. Look we're getting ready to
get out of here in a minute. But before we do,
what's one piece of advice that you'd give the next
Cadeedra Robinson is getting ready to start her journey. If
you got two, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
One piece of advice I would definitely say, take better
care of yourself because these people will drive you crazy.
You will find yourself falling apart, and they gonna continue
with their lives. They're gonna continue with the incompetent, illiterate
(55:09):
line preacher after they have drained you dry of everything
you got. And as much as I love Black people
and as much as I everything I do, is because
I genuinely love us. I think we are the most ridiculous, hilarious,
joy felled, creative, ingenuitive, like just completely amazing set of
(55:37):
people who have ever lived. They've been trying to kill
us for centuries and they can't do it. We still
two step and while they trying to kill lives dance,
we still learning new line. This is why they trying
to take us out. At a macro level. We cannot die.
(55:57):
But as much as I love us, the saying that
you cannot pour from an empty cup is actually really, really,
really real. And I've let myself over the course of
my journey, get emptied out way too often, and it
just makes you resentful, It makes you mad, burns you out,
and it doesn't actually move the needle for you or
(56:22):
for black folks in general. So take better carry yourself,
no tak care of yourself.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
I was actually just the other day, I was I
was very stressed out about something and some people and
I was and I saw the people, like I was
in this room and I saw the people, and I
was like kind of sitting on this couch, and I
remember I was like laying down, I just have my hand.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Over my hair like this. And I was like, how
come I'm the only one to here stressed out like
they should be stressed out too. Why is it just me?
Why am I soul worrying over there? Laughing?
Speaker 2 (56:53):
And Ki Ki and you know you can't, but I'm
saying you can't carry that stuff. You gotta you gotta. Again,
we don't talk about it, of just like the weight
and the wear and tear that like building something from
nothing and again just getting up every day and to
be in all consuming takes on you. So to your point,
you know, I mean, I know for me, I remember
(57:14):
there were times when, like you know, I would respond,
my body would respond. I would have back spasms and
my hair started falling out a couple different times, and like.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Oh yeah, I had no edges. At the end of
twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
I literally would developed alopecia, and like I would say,
I had this. At one point, I had just like
a nice little spot on my head that just completely bald,
and I was like, oh, hell no.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
I was in there spraying the stuff on the little
hair fibers. I was like, I ain't living like this
no more. I got me some bioteaine, started drinking some water,
get me some some melon outside. I said, I can't
do this. So no, man, you got to balance yourself.
You gotta you gotta take care of yourself. Because he's
just been a great, great conversation. Please before we got
out of here. Tell people how they can find out
(57:53):
more about the you know, the stuff you're working on
the pit, how they can find you, support you, like,
let them know where to go look.
Speaker 1 (57:59):
I am on social media at DJA don't because when
when Twitter first started, I was there literally and I
grew up loving Queen Latifa character and uh living single
and her name was Kadija and her little line and
(58:20):
she used to save you all the time is Kadija
don't need you, honey. And I was like, yes, period,
I don't need y'all. I ain't going back and forth
with you. So when I got on social media, Dija
don't need you was my handle across all the platforms.
I'm heavy on LinkedIn. Now apparently I'll be cursing people
out on LinkedIn. That's different kinds. They like all you
(58:44):
do is politely curse people out on LinkedIn. I'm like, well,
they decerned to be cursed. But I'm heavy on LinkedIn.
And I also I own the domain name because you know,
one thing entrepreneurs love to do is buy a domain.
We have an idea, we buy a domain. So DJA
don't need you dot com you can find me there
you can find all my different ventures, everything I'm working on,
(59:06):
and hit me up.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
The fact that you not only built a business but
also got sold it all while being digital, Nieja, just again,
I can't, I can't. I can't top that, Kadija, Thank
you so much for pulling up. This has been an
amazing conversation and we out. That's the pod.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Y'all.
Speaker 2 (59:25):
You've been listening to button Nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler. Got comments, feedback? Want to be on the show.
Send us an email today at hello at butternomics dot com.
Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia at iHeartMedia by
Ksey Pegram, with marketing support from Queen and Nikki.
Speaker 1 (59:40):
Music provided by mister Hanky.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
If you haven't already, hit that subscribe button and never
missed an episode, and be sure to follow us on
all our social platforms at butter dot atl Listen to
buttteron Nomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Five
Somebody came up and asked me like, well, how did
you manage your time? And I'm like, I mean, I'm
gonna be very real. I slept about four and a
half hours every day, that's it. And then I hustled.
I did not take off any weekends. I worked every
single day. Every single day I worked in some capacity
for somebody. It's not like you are going to be
(00:21):
living a wonderful, beautiful balance life if you're trying to
work and also really get out the mud with a company.
But you could do it. Everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to another episode of Button Nomics. I'm your host,
Brandon Butler, found the CEO of Butter atl And Today.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
We have a distinguished guest in the building.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I always say special guests. This guest is distinguished. Miss
it Khadija A Robinson. Kadija, how you doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I ain't in the lovely today. Don't be using no,
be using your corporate voice. Usealos. Oh you won't be
a breakout by Sabana Tarja.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Oh good, good good, So Kadiji. We're doing something a
little different. Normally I ask people like tell me, tell
the people who you are. But I did something a
little bit different. I've been doing this for a while
for butter nomics. Okay, I asked chat Cheapt who you are?
Oh my god, Now I'm going I ain't gonna lie
to you. This is the most information chatty tea chat
(01:21):
is a chat is giving me back about anybody, Like
You've really got like five pages in here, and you
know what.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I'm gonna read it. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So I asked chat Cheapt who is Kadeja Robinson? Based
in Atlanta, Georgia. That's all I said.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Now I'm kind of stress out, okay. Kadija A.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Robinson is a distinguished attorney, entrepreneur, and advocate for black
entrepreneurship based in Atlanta, Georgia. Raising Savannah in Montgomery, Alabama.
She pursued higher education at Spelman College, earning a Bachelor
of Arts in English. She furthered her studies with a
Master of Science and International Public Policy from the University
of College London and a Juris Doctor from Harvard Law School.
(02:00):
Robinson's professional journey includes practicing law at Covington and Berling
LLP in Washington, DC. In twenty nineteen, she founded the
Nile List, an online platform designed to connect consumers with
black owned e commerce brands. This venture was acquired by
Empower Global, led by Sean Combs, where she served as
CEO for two years, overseeing fundraising, operations and development. Currently,
(02:22):
Robinson serves as a program manager for the Center for
Black Entrepreneurship's LIFT Incubator at Morehouse College. In this role,
she leads initiatives supporting black and brown tech founders in
Atlanta's startup ecosystem. The incubator's first cohort featured fourteen companies
with top applicants receiving grant funding to propel their growth.
Beyond her work at cbe Lyft, Robinson is involved in
(02:44):
several initiatives, The Pit, a coworking space for black founders
to collaborate, share resources, and build partnerships. The Black Ambition Fund,
an inaugural Entrepreneur in residence for Pharrell's Black Ambition Fund,
which she mentors black and LATINX founders gar guiding semi
finalists and finalists competing for significant fundraising prizes and fictive ventures.
(03:06):
Serving as general partner at this venture fund, Robinson invests
in early stage black startups, addressing the racial funding gap
and enabling broader participation from black investors. Additionally, Robinson offers
fractional chief operating officer and consulting services and startups seeking
to enhance their operations and scalability. Her expertise spans operations, strategy,
(03:29):
legal analysis, and product development. Robinson also owns super Host
Management Services, a company specializing in transforming properties into profitable
short terminals in Atlanta. Her dedication to community extends to
serving on the board of Students of Students Without Mothers
and Atlanta based nonprofit providing support and resources to college
bound students who have lost their mothers. And throughout her
(03:52):
multi faceted endeavors, Kadeja Robinson continues the champion economic empowerment
and create equitable opportunities for underrepresented founders and communities.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Damn chat GPT, No mean I want to say that, like, OK,
cause me feeling about so so how much of that
was true? That was That's crazy. It's always when they
pulled out the super host to that's crazy. I literally
(04:23):
like that's I have what I call my professional businesses
and like my main life and then my side businesses
that are like these are things that make money over here.
And so yeah, I have a I started rental property,
like my own airbnbs and then started this company to
manage other people's Airbnbs. And like, that's so random because
(04:47):
I don't talk about that at all. Know that I
didn't know that. I look telling you, chat knows, the
chat knows that's crazy. So yeah, that's me. Well, I mean,
but let's see because it was super professional and like, yeah,
I'm from Savannah Seaport all day. I am a Georgia girl,
and I am like, oh, the term that we used
(05:09):
to use back in the day was sophistic ratchet. Okay,
so like I love aa E bowls and I can
eating poke and sushi because I'm real classy or whatever.
But then I be like, oh, y'all, let's go to
Jr Creeky. It's about balance at midnight because it be
hiding and I remember when the Jr Creek is that
(05:30):
burnt down over by the Varsity used to have the
best oat group.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, look, jail creeksa at midnight as a whole. There's
a whole experience it within itself. Like I know that's
when I normally go.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
And then we be having a time. I be in
there eating so yes, well, look that that is a
that was a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Again, I think that's the longest introduction Chat has given
me about anybody. But when you're at a party where
nobody knows you, how do you introduce yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
You know, if I'm at a party, I just be
talking shit and I just like, oh, yeah, I'm Codizially,
I'm from Savannah. I went to Spellman and it's so
funny because I was just telling so I decided I'm
suing my plumber. Okay last week. Last week, I was like,
you know what, I've had a note with his knee girl,
(06:20):
and so I am suing my plumber. And I was
talking to my dad and my sister and when I
was telling him what was going on, they were like, dude,
he know that you're a lawyer. And I'm like, no,
I'm pretty sure he don't, because I don't think that
the majority of people that just interact with me casually
in day to day life now know that I am
a lawyer with to Harvard Law School too, right, No,
(06:42):
none of that and be like, oh that can easy.
What's up? So I can't and they don't know, like
it's just not what I lead with necessarily, and so yeah,
I was like, I don't think the plumber knows what's
coming for him, but I'm about to mess his ass
up in court because I'm tired of these ghetto games.
(07:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was telling somebody a couple of weeks ago. I
was like, I like to suit people like because I
can't argue with y'all sometimes like I've I've you know,
I'm sorry, Like I can argue so much, but at
a certain point it's like, you know what, I can
go to civil court, I can file and then I
ain't gotta talk to you no more. You can talk
to the judge, you can explain your side to them.
And so I tell people all the time it's like,
(07:23):
look like I don't have a problem with it.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
It's there. Is there for a reason. As a distinguished
gentleman once say, I ain't going back and forth with you.
I'm not. I'm not like I got somebody right now.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I'm like, if you don't send me this thing when
you say you go, see the next time, I'm gonna
block you. And the next thing you're gonna hear from me
is is the is the process server showing up at
your house?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And finally, a small claims court is not hard. Oh no,
they'll actually walk you through it, right, They'll actually tell me.
I have worked in small claims court, volunteering to help
people file lawsuits. As it's thirty and I literally like,
put this on the paper. Okay, you just staple this together.
You go put that Okay, now you got Now you
know where they live, okay, right, their address, and then
(08:08):
this person gonna serve them. That's fifty dollars.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, boom, It's easy, you know. So o hey, look,
I'm just telling you so okay.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now, So I'm in a suing ass mood this year.
So everybody who's pissed me off for the last few
years is about to be serves this year. And I
have two lawsuits teed up, and one of them I'm like,
I literally went back to an email that really pissed
me off, and I took everybody on that email chain,
and I'm suing them all individually. So IM about to
(08:36):
fuck everybody twenty twenty five. Uck, I got time, you
know what. I got time, and I got dollars reach
one of y'all. I have had enough. You don't want
to respond to my email, don't worry about it. Don't worry.
So you know, that's a good transition.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You we were talking off loud of you talking about
this book you read call Surrounded by Idiots.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Who. What was your biggest takeaway from that book? So
the goal the book is supposed to describe these different
behavioral archetypes. It categorizes people into four different archetypes. You
can be a red, a blue, a green, or yellow,
and it's supposed to help you understand people's behavior based
(09:21):
on their archetype and how you can interact with them better,
how you can work with them better and hopefully like
get along with less friction. So when I saw it,
I was like, surrounded by idiots. Yes, I need that
because I am, in fact surrounded by idiots. People are dumb.
And I read the book and I think it was
(09:42):
very helpful because there are I do fall prey to
the ideology that like, if you're not doing it the
way that I would do it, then it does not
make sense. So I know that I recognize that about myself.
So I did get a little bit of enlightenment, like, Okay,
you know I'm a red, very very very clear read
Apparently we real aggressive ass motherfuckers and we just be like,
(10:05):
let's get the shit, done you doing all this talking
and we need to be doing the thing. So we're
very much like that. We are very cut and dry.
So a lot of people will be like, like Kadesian
even say thank you. I will say I am the
type of person who will send an email and whatever
I want is in the subject line and there's nothing
(10:27):
in the body and you just need to do the
thing and respond to the email, like yeah, that's it.
That's it. I'm not gonna be like, Hi, good morning,
how are you hope as well? You know, for well
email subjects, you know. So I'm that type of person.
It was helpful in the sense the understanding that some
(10:49):
people are different. However, there are still a lot of
stupid people. So I'm like, how do you deal with
people who, Okay, I'm they might be a blue but
then they're actually just still dumb, which is a lot
of people, Like we have a literacy crisis in America.
We do have a literacy crisis one, and especially amongst
(11:11):
the black community. Like I was going, I used to
be heavy on Twitter before Elon took it over and
like messed up the whole vibe. And I was going
back and forth with some black magamite, and they were like,
you know, black kids can't even read. We need to
focus on that before we focus on X. And I
(11:33):
was like, before I argue with somebody, I go and
research the facts to make sure that what I am
saying is actually based in fact. And when I went
and started looking up the literacy rates among the black children,
I was like, no, they really can't read. We really
can't read. They really can't read. Like half of black
kids in eighth grade are not literate. And I was
(11:55):
like wait what. So I was shook, and then I
was like, oh, everything makes so much more sense. As
I'm going about life and I'm interacting with people, I'm like, oh,
of course this is the way it is because you
can't read, so like duh, you know, Like I just
(12:17):
why would I expect anything different? Y'all negirls already literally
and I hate it for us and I want it
to be better. But I think it helps me temper
my expectations when I just already know that I'm about
to be walking into illiteracy.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I used to intern and work in radio for a while,
and I remember a very very well known radio host
who I was talking to, and I think he told me,
this is a long time ago. He was like, yeah,
like most people read it like best to like a
sixth grade level. And he was like, so you just
even when we when we put stuff together, like we
have to put it together because honestly, Brandon, like a
lot of people aren't gonna get this. We're talking about
(12:55):
the masses and that scale. And I think a lot
of times like we get in our bubbles. You know,
we got our friend is everybody's college educated and everybody,
and you know we got cousins too. You know, I've
got some cousins that but you know a lot of
times too when you don't think about it. And so
even I even put that into like a lot of
stuff that we do from a content and copy standpoint,
like not that you gotta dumb it down, but you
gotta simplify some things, right because if you really want
(13:15):
to catch fire, like it's got to be. I mean,
even when you look at just how the thing kind
of things go viral, like how things are like written
and positioned, it's like, yeah, like this is like at
a this this isn't this isn't like NBA or like
you know, you know, legal level, this is like ABC
one two three, bruh.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And I had to I had to even get myself
from like going back and forth with people online because
I'm like, wait a minute, you don't even know the
difference between there what an apostrophe and there like possess it?
Why about arguing with you? You don't know weather versus weather,
so you know, Oh my god, I'd be thinking about
(13:54):
in the dating context, I think about is Brandon because
I realized that I require a certain level of intelligence
in dating. When I was dating this guy, and this
is when I lived in DC. He was taking me
back home and he was like my GPS telling me,
(14:14):
y'all need to turn off Arkansas. And I was like, ooh, Arkansas.
That would be Arkansas. But you know, I'm not gonna
get I'm not gonna be too down on you because
if you ain't never said it, which means that you
never were in social STUDI it must have been handsome.
Then you don't know it's arc It's not Arkansas. It's Arkansas, Okay.
(14:36):
But then the first time this man entered my house
when he was taking me home the same trip, he
comes in and I have bookshelves with books, I read
a lot. I've always read a lot. I had a
book blog back in the day that was like my
little hobby. I'm in a book club and he walking,
he walks like, oh, you be reading now. I was like, yeah,
(15:06):
I'd be reading. Dennis Man proceeded to tell me with
his full chest, I ain't never read a whole book
in my life. And I was like, I can tell.
And then he got mad, and I was like, I
was just agreeable what you said. It's evident I wish
I was this handsome. It's evident you ain't never read
an old book. It was this from your bords. That
(15:30):
was the last time we saw. Definitely definitely hadn't read
of Matt before. Bro. This man said our Kansas and
I was like, oh my god. So yeah, the again,
it's hard on here in the street, business, personal everything.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
When did you decide to like the corporate route you
want to kind of focus go on entrepreneurship. How did
you start to make that pivot?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Oh gosh, So when I was in law school, I
already hated it, and then I was like, I'm just
gonna graduate and work with all these same people, Like
we're all going to the same law firms. So that's
gonna be real lame and lo and behold it was Laane.
Soh god, you know what, I had an epiphany. I
(16:25):
had been going through all of these spaces growing up.
I was in the Magnet programs. I was always in
this like little group of smart kids. But even amongst
that group, I was always the smartest. So then I
go to Spelman. And when I went to Spelman, my
dad he's a professor, so he was like, you know,
(16:47):
this is not like high school. It's gonna be more
rigorous and things are gonna get hard. And I was like, okay,
get to college. I'm waiting for things to get hard.
They don't get hard. So then I go do my man,
I don't. I was just I was in London. That
was my party year, and I was outside, so I
did not apply myself at all. I wrote my entire dissertation,
(17:11):
which was like eighty pages in like a week, got
my master's cool, went to Harvard. I'm in law school,
and at that point I'm like, Okay, I am going
to Harvard. This is the time at which I have
to apply myself. I am going to be surrounded by
(17:32):
the smartest people from wherever they're from. This is like
the cream of across. And I got there and I
was like, this is I know you lying. I'm looking
around in these classrooms and I'm like, you're not. I mean,
it's not a whole bunch of us. It's not a
(17:53):
whole bunch of black folks, obviously, so this coming isn't
even really about us. It's really the white majority. I
was like, you're not smart. You're white. You had tutors
your whole life, you had your parents investing thousands of
dollars into your lsat prap class and they basically strong
(18:17):
armed and shoehorned you in to this group of people.
But I know so many negroes in Savannah, Georgia who
ain't never left the city limits of Savannah from Yamacrol Village,
who's smarter than you, But they ain't never had nobody
paying for their education, they ain't never been to nobody
private school, they never been nobody capling class. So they're
(18:40):
not here at Harvard, but y'all are. And it would
be these same people that I'm like, Bro, you mediocre
as hell. Your parents just have money. And then you
got the nerve to turn around and be talking about meritocracy.
Are you serious? You're stupid bruh. So I just got
really really pissed, Like when I tell you next level,
(19:00):
my blood pressure high while I was in law school
because I was like, these people are dumb, and then
they about to come out and run the world, and
they're gonna continue to perpetuate this same ideology. They think
they got here on merit so then they're gonna be
go over here talking about and we see it now
they all like mad about DEI. I'm like, baby, you
are DEI. Let me tell you about how you got
(19:22):
into these spaces through money and means and a level
of structure and support and all the other things that
you need to do well academically and do well in
life that a lot of us never had. So it's
not like you literally just inherently are smart. You got
here with help, but now you are upset about the
(19:43):
other help that other folks are getting. So I got
real pissed. I got to my law firm. It was
extremely white corporate America, and I was upset the whole
time I was there. I was keeping like a little file.
I was literally just keeping my EOC file like in
case I just come and tell y'all about y'allselves. I
(20:06):
know they were so happy when I left. I just
know because I raised hell every single year I was there,
like why are y'all doing this? Why y'all don't have
a diversity a chief diversity officer, all of this stuff.
So I hated the law firm. I got there my
first year and I was already like how do I
get out of here? And I applied for a clerkship, which,
(20:28):
because of how competitive it is to clerk with the
Federal Court judge, we were on application cycles that were
two years out. So I applied in twenty sixteen and
interviewed and got a job that did not start for
two years. So I started that job in twenty eighteen
and it's a year long appointment to clerk with the judge.
(20:49):
And while I was clerking, I started my first company,
which was super haphazard because when I was doing it,
I just was like, this is my hobby on the side,
and I really don't even know how it really came
to life as a business, but yeah, it just kind
of grew. And what was that first company? That was
(21:11):
the nihilistic? That was okay? So I started with a
Google spreadsheet, and I was like, I am saving in
this spreadsheet black owned brands that I want to shop with.
I want to buy black. I'm trying to buy black
as much as possible. And I got super like militant.
I've always been very militant like my parents. Like when
(21:33):
I grew up, when I went to school for the
first time and they was singing a national anthem. I
was like, what is the song? I had never heard
this somebody, and they were like, this is the national anthem.
I was like, no, it's not lift every voice and
sing it's the national anthom like what. I had literally
never heard the US national anthem in my life, and
(21:56):
I thought the black national anthem was a national anthem.
We were black as hell, Like we went through a
Rites of Passage program. We celebrated kwanto. We didn't celebrate
Christmas like my parents were og black. They used to
be wearing dice shaky sits a professor to professor of history.
(22:22):
So I grew up like not eating pork, the white
man meat like all kinds of stuff. We were so militant.
I literally tell people like, y'all do not know how
I grew up the childhood games that we used to
play were like mancla bruh b like literally like African
(22:43):
American bingo. That's what we used to play at home.
So I was always militant, but then I clerked and
I got extreme. I turned into like prison abolitionists. Police
need to be defunded. Like I became extreme, we militant,
which it will do it to you, like go sit
in a courtroom every day for a year and see
(23:07):
the revolving door of black people and the way that
they are treated in this system, and you will become
militant af because it's crazy. And so my stress reliever
was like I am going not stress reliever but like
hobby and kind of stress reliever. Actually was like I
(23:27):
am going to focus outside of work on what I
can do for black people, and I be shopping online,
so at minimum, I'm gonna spend my money with black entrepreneurs.
And that was literally how the nohlist started. I started
putting people in a Google spreadsheet, and then I started
telling people about it, and they were like, oh, I
(23:48):
want to buy black You got anybody on your list
that cells swimsuits? I'm like kid swimsuits. I got people,
got batteries deodorant, all of the above, and like this jewelry,
everything with the except of my watch is from a
black company. Different ones too, So everybody in black like
and I got really, really, really just into finding different
(24:11):
black owned companies promoting them. I built a website, we
built an app, and we were just kind of in
the right place at the right time because we launched it.
It was all for online shopping with black brands. And
we launched March first, twenty twenty. Oh that's my birthday.
That's why it was. You know, that's Pisce's gang. Yep,
(24:33):
and I'm ripping Pisces. But yeah, we launched March first,
twenty twenty, and then two weeks later, everybody was at
home shopping online, so we were well positioned for that.
And then three months later everybody was trying to support
black people because they murdering like they always do. And
then it was just like a very non linear, unexpected
(24:56):
I had no way of forecasting that, like my little
side project was gonna become what it did, but then
it did. Then I was like, do so to the
lawyer life. I'm an entrepreneur going on now. I I
(25:16):
was negotiating my acquisition for my company while I was
still practicing law at my law firm. And the day
after I signed my deal for this company to be sold,
I resigned and I sent out an email to everybody,
(25:41):
and I got so many responses for people who were like,
I have never seen a departure email like this in
my life, because it was so normal at the law
firm for everybody to like at all and send out
a departure like, oh, thank you so much for my
time here. It was lovely. I value all of my
(26:02):
wonderful colleagues. My journey continues. Yeah, this is where you
can find me next. And I basically was like, I
don't want to find none of y'all, motherfuckers. I oh, y'all,
don't call me. Fuck everybody. I ain't doing shit else
for anybody unless you black bye. I did it more
(26:23):
pc than that, but that was the extreme overtone, and
people were like calling my office phone like since I'm dying,
I'm like, wait, I am who I am? So? How
did that hold?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So you ended up getting reached out to you and
started working with Combs Enterprises now Golash.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Nothing crazy.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
We're just going to say you know that you was
part of that group, Like, and then what you you
you were so you were still working at the law
firm when when the acquisition happened, So you were doing
both these at the same time up until you completely
exited that business.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I built and sold my first company while still working
at my law firm. Oh see, that's a superpower to
a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'll just say that, just kind of say like, because
a lot of people think they got to go completely
all in, and I'm just telling people you can do
both at the same time. It's actually, if it could
work out, right, it actually makes a lot of sense
to kind of have that additional little safety net while
you're building something, not just going all in and hoping
it all works out.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Oh yeah, I've never been one, and I know even
other investors who are like, no, you got to be
full time entrepreneur for me to invest in you. And
I'm like, br I'm not trying to give a little
bit of money to somebody who out here starving and
scraping otherwise because they're not focused. You can't be over
here focused on building your startup if you trying to
figure out how you gonna pay rent this month. So
(27:38):
I definitely don't have a problem with people working a
job and also building their company. But I also and
I know you mentioned the pit earlier. We do coworking
days and we bring together black entrepreneurs, work together, do
hot seat sessions. We do a bunch of programming for
black startup founders in Atlanta, And we had a coworking
(28:01):
day last week and I was like, listen, I don't
have no sympathy for people who are like, oh, I
you know I'm working in trying to build this company
because I built, bootstrapped, built scaled by myself, only person
working in a company, and then sold an entire company.
(28:24):
So I don't want to hear you ain't had time
to do this. I'm like, bruh. Somebody came up and
asked me, like, well, how did you manage your time?
And I'm like, I mean, I'm gonna be very real.
I slept about four and a half hours every day,
that's it. Yeah, And then I hustled. I did not
take off any weekends. I worked every single day. Every
(28:44):
single day. I worked in some capacity for somebody myself
or the law firm. So like, it's not like you
are going to be living a wonderful, beautiful balance life
if you're trying to work and also really get out
the mud with a company. But you could do it.
You can do it as possible.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And yeah, I think again, you see the you know,
you see the influences online with their morning routines and
you know they're over here, and I'm like, no, no,
that ain't what it's like. Like again, I'm look, I know,
trust me. I was up last night working on stuff
till actually I had an emergency call because something happened.
So I was literally on the phone with a you know,
PR team till like twelve thirty. Then you know, I slept,
(29:25):
you knows, about five am this morning, got up, sent emails,
got my kids out the door, came back home, got
on immediately, two calls for two hours, through some water
on my face, shutting the shower, and drove down here.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I mean, that's what it's like.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And then you know what, I'm gonna do it this
evening too, and then this weekend I'm gonna be working
on stuff and like, yeah, like when you get to
a certain point, and maybe, but I think even for
certain I think for like real entrepreneurs too at least,
but people are like working like I don't even necessarily
see a place where I'm just not doing anything. I
think at a minimum, I'll probably ramp down. I'd like
to have something where at a certain point it's like,
you know, a couple hours on the week or something
(30:01):
more of a passion project. But right now, YO, were working, we're.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Working, we grinding. And that's what I said. That's when
I think about who I invest in and when I
think about who I spend my energy on. I have
like two really big criteria for entrepreneurs, Like you got
to number one, be willing to get it out the mudd.
That's why we call the organization that we built the pit,
(30:26):
Like are you going to get in the pit and
build this shit? Yeah? You not building it from the rafters,
Like this shit ain't cute, it's not like oh even entrepreneur,
it's like bruh. Sometimes you fighting for your life in
that pit, but you're making it happy. And then also,
you cannot be hard headed, because it's a lot of
(30:48):
hard headed people out here who don't listen to shit
and then be trying to understand why the stuff they're
doing doesn't work. And I'm like, I mean, if you
had to listen when somebody told you that that wasn't
gonna work and you should think about doing it this
way and maybe a different place. So yeah, I was
very big on seeking out other people when I was
(31:10):
starting up, in starting in my journey, seeking other people
who could help me, who had advice, who had been there,
done that, built stuff. And then I was in the trenches.
I was a corporate lawyer. By the time I left,
I was making over three hundred thousand dollars at my
law firm, and that did not stop me from bootstrapping
(31:32):
the hell out of my company. In my Jimmy choos
walking around with my clipboard. I would go out on
weekends and canvas at different events and be like, I
ain't building this, Can I sign you up for the
mailing list? Going up talking to people at different black
business like pop ups and stuff, being like can you
(31:54):
will you consider getting on my platform? And I was
out here like us talking to people literally walking around
with my little produ bag, like let me get you
to sign up, like the little Humane Society people to
be trying to like Lady and Kroger trying to get
me a sign off rat and t That was me.
That was me, And now folks want to just be like, oh,
(32:17):
I've got to turn on some Facebook as I'm like, bruh, nah,
you gotta get out there.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
When I started Buttering, I remember, you know, because I
didn't even really do social media personally, so like for me,
a thousand followers was like all the people in Atlanta,
you know. I remember when we had our launch party.
I just remember saying like, if we can just get
the three hundred followers by the launch party, like this
thing is gonna be lit. I think we got like
the three oh five and I was like, oh, yeah,
we going crazy, you know what I'm saying. But I
remember we got like a thousand followers because I have
(32:56):
a background in like engineering and product management too, right,
Like I literally set out an email one day and
was like and I saw a survey to like our
followers on ig and I was like, look, fill this out,
like I want to know why y'all follow Butter. And
the very last question was if you don't mind if
I call you, what's your phone number? And I probably
got to maybe about thirty or forty people the game,
and I literally called them and people were like wow,
(33:19):
I'm like, yeah, I want to know, Like I want
to understand, like what made you follow this social media
account and like what are we doing with like people
Like I'm like, yeah, it literally takes like that level
of work, you know what I mean, actually get in
and want to understand and like I say that like
hand hand com bit. I like when you talk about
the pit. Like one of my favorite books is this
book by Seth Golden called The Dip, and it kind
of talks about the same thing. It says, you know,
(33:40):
when you get ready to start anything, it's almost like
you're on a cliff. Right, whether you're graduating college and
graduate high school, about to go to college, or you're
ready to start a business, you're on this cliff and
everybody's like, congratulations, you did it. It's about to be amazing.
And look over that edge and there's there's a dip.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
There's a pit.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
There's a valley, right and once you get into that valley.
But he basically talks about is He's like, look, if
you don't want to do the work to get out
the other side, it's okay to quit. But at the
same time, once you're in there, you gotta go. You've
got to figure out how to get up the other
side of this mountain and get up back to the
other side.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
So again, I think about it again when you talk
about the pit getting it out, like you get all
the again, like you know, the world is really good
at congratulating founders. I think I think things that aren't
really worth congratulating All the time they found out you
were raising a bunch of money, it's like great, now
you're in.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Now you owe people a bunch of money. Now you've
got their money and they got.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Xpect Now they can call you and be like, so
what you're doing? You know they or they hit you
for these or you started something. They say, great, now
you're not gonna be up You're gonna be staying up
that all night trying to build this thing. But they
don't see like that messy middle part, right, And I think,
you know, I don't know. I think we got to
like flip that around a little bit more. But even
in going through that process, like what are some of
the biggest lessons you learn going through an acquisition, because
(34:52):
a lot of people want to get to that part,
and you know, I don't think they really understand how
many deals fall apart in the acquisition process because you
don't have paperwork together, or you know, just things again,
things happen, right, Like, what are some of the biggest
things you learned just going through that acquisition process?
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Oh gosh, okay, So the biggest thing that I talked
to the entrepreneurs about is like, what do you actually
want out of an acquisition? Now that I'm older and wiser,
I very strongly believe that I will not again in
my life sell a company and myself with it. I'm
(35:28):
not coming. So whatever it is that you want, it
got to be in the company itself. Yeah, I'm not
coming to work for you. I actually only know one
founder who's ever had a good experience with the company
that they sold to, going in and actually working in
that company as a part of the acquisition. Everybody else
(35:52):
in the startup round typically is put on a vesting
schedule once they get right to the acquiring company. And
what that means is you any equity that you get
in the new company vest over the course of typically
four years. So if you sell your company and you
(36:13):
sell it for a mix of cash and also equity
in the new company, Let's say Coca Cola buys your
company and they buy it for a million dollars and
half of it is cash and half of it is
equity in Coca Cola, and that equity vest over four years,
then at any point before four years is up, you
(36:36):
actually do not have five hundred thousand dollars worth of
equity in Coca Cola. You only have how much has
vested over time. Vesting can happen on a monthly schedule,
cappen on a quarterly schedules, sometimes even rarely capp it
on a yearly schedule, which means they usually also put
in a cliff, a one year cliff, which means in
that first year, if you like, oh this shit sucks,
(36:58):
I'm out, you don't get any all. You lose it
all because you didn't make it off the flip. So
I again, I only know one founder who's actually even
made it to the four year schedule. Everybody else I
know did not even stay for four years to get
(37:20):
all their equity. And the point at which you are
either kicked out, which happens a lot a lot, or
you are like, I just got to get out of here,
and you're willing to leave money on the table because
you have unvested equity. You can just imagine what the
(37:40):
experience is like in that place. So going forward, I'm like,
I might give people like a couple months transition to
make sure everything is in place, and then I'm out.
I ain't selling nothing else where. I got to be
working there because it's it's crazy out here in East Yes,
I always tell people that and also work backwards. What
(38:04):
do you need to get out of an acquisition? And
understand that from the very beginning of building a company,
And I ask founders out all the time. So like
I work with Black Ambition and I had a goal
setting and strategy a strategic planning session for Black Ambition founders,
and one of the things I did with them was like, Okay,
(38:24):
where do you want this company to end up? Ultimately?
For the people who are like I want to sell it,
I'm like, okay, do you want to work again after?
Like are you going to go get another job? Are
you going to go do something else? Build another company?
A couple of people are like, I don't want to
have to, and I'm like, okay, how much money do
you need to live for the rest of your life
without working at all? Ever? Again? So oh, maybe they
(38:50):
ain't even thought that far. And I'm like, if you
think that this sale of this company is going to
pay for the entire rest of your life, you need
to have a number in mind and you need to
be building towards that. So if you know you need
twenty million dollars to live how you want to live
for the rest of your life, then you better make
sure when you walk away from that company that you
(39:12):
got twenty million dollars a yo pocket yep. Which means again,
like you said, people be raising all this money and
that's real cute or whatever. But if you brought in
all these investors and they own fifty percent of the
company and you can only sell that company for twenty million, baby,
you're not leaving out there with twenty million, right, because
they own fifty percent, you get in ten. That's it.
(39:36):
So I definitely when I started my company, my first company,
I did not have my exit in mind because I
was just stumbling into entrepreneurship. And now anything that I'm
building or working on, I'm like, bro, what's the end
go for this? Right? What are we doing this for?
Cause I ain't about to be going back and forth
with you niggas whatever, Okay, Like no, So that is
(40:02):
my key advice that and like just get the bookkeeper
real early and be doing the financial statements. People don't
have P and L, don't have balance sheet. Folks don't
even know how much money they are spending in their
business regularly. And it's one person I always make sure
I pay. That's the bookkeeper. Yeah, all the time. And
I'm like, every month, I want to see my balance sheet.
(40:24):
I want to see P and L. I want to
see what's actually going on and actually understand. Like even
last year, I was like, I need to spend some
money because the taxes are about to be interesting. So
I know in December, going into December, I got to
get these business expenses in a lou I'm like, I
need to go see some clients in California by this
(40:45):
ticket making business class. You know. So just being able
to actually plan cash flow huge a lot of people. Yeah,
a lot of people who are making money still go
out of business or mess themselves because they don't know
what their cash flow is like and they don't have
a process for actually managing cash flow.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
So yeah, one of my favorite of jay Z lines,
he says, who deserves the Medal of Freedom? My accountant.
I'm like y'all gonna play that part again, Like, y'all
don't understand. He's like the Federal Allies would have been
had the townhouse surrounded, you know what I mean. But no,
it's like, you got to understand these things. And I
(41:26):
agree with you one hundred percent. Like I think that's
a hard lesson I had to learn early on too.
It's like you got to get the books right, especially one,
just so you understand what you're doing, what's kind of
going in and going out. Even on a personal level,
you gotta have your own kind of personal p and
L but specifically for business, but especially if you want
to actually sell a business. There's a lot of things
that fall apart at closer to finish line because you
don't have your paperwork together.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I spent hours with my accountant putting retroactively getting all
of my financial statements together in preparation for this acquisition
because I did not have that shit together. Yeah, and
I had to get all these documents and I was like,
oh my god, never again. Now, baby, I could download
(42:08):
that thing for quick, but was right now up to date.
I got a buddy. I got a buddy of mine.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
He actually came on and he was kind of saying
something similar where when him and his wife built their business,
they actually did a lot of the upward upfront work
with having an accountant. So when they actually got acquired,
he's like, it took like six weeks, which is crazy
when you think.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
About the amount of time.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
He was like, but the reason why is because I
had everything lined up. There weren't no crazy deals. I
had all the paperworking in place, and we just pulled it.
They verified everything, and like he was like, the deal
was done in like six weeks, And I mean, that's
the benefit of that stuff, right.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I'm working with an entrepreneur now who does not have
any document storage system. I'd be asking forseff He's like,
I gotta go back and find it in my email,
and I'm like, bruh, bruh.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Well, look, you're working with these folks, and that's one
of the because you now you have a venture fund
I do, and you know, we know that there's a
lot of challenge, especially for black founder, especially black women founder,
is getting access to capital. You know, like, what's one
of the biggest misconceptions that people have about, you know,
just fundraising at this level, especially on the VC side.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So the reason that my partner and I started as
venture fund is because we wanted to change the landscape adventure.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions about venture capital
is that it is a good, positive step in the
right direction for your company, and usually it's not for us.
(43:38):
And I've been telling these black founders, I like, if
you at all can avoid raising venture, avoid it. This
landscape is predatory. It is like, it's worse than payday loans.
But they've glamorized it so much that these supposed to
(44:00):
be what looking at Forbes and tech Crunch and thinking
this is the goal, And I'm like, bruh, do you
know what founders deal with after they take adventure for
their company? The road to get there, I think is
so arduous for so many of us. It's so hard
that we view it as an accomplishment in itself. But
(44:20):
raising money is not an accomplishment. That just means that
you have brought in money that your business couldn't bring
in the revenue in order to grow, and now you
actually got to grow. That's the hard part. Yeah, a
lot of people don't grow. So a lot of times,
(44:42):
like investing adventure is considered risky because of the number
of companies that go out of business. I think, I
think that there are so many reasons why companies go
out of business. But in a startup space, a lot
of times them people didn't never have no business even
starting a company with whatever they do, but they convinced
somebody to give them some money to turbocharge, and now
(45:06):
they're selling the most ridiculous nonsense stuff that nobody asked for.
Who asked for this? I ask founders all the time,
and they gets so offended viscerally when I'm like, well,
who asked for this? I this is a I just
came up with it because I'm solving my own problem.
They'd like to say it out the time. I'm solving
(45:27):
my own problem. Okay, well, how many of yous is
it in the world people have the same problem? Bruh,
And I'm just like y'all becoming any of y'all wonder
why their own work. So, first of all, venture is predatory.
Second of all, it puts you on a timeline. A
venture fund and this is specific to venture investing, which
(45:48):
is a subset of the investment that you can bring
into a company. But venture capital funds have a life.
The fund usually lives for ten years, typically eight to
ten years. They need to pay back the people who
invested in the venture fund at the end of that
time period. So if that venture fund launched two years
(46:12):
ago and they are on an eight year life and
they invest in you, well, now you got six years
and make some shit shape and a venture capitalists typically
only gets their money back if there is a liquidity
event in a company. Liquidity event means you ipo, you
go public on a stock exchange, or you sell the company.
(46:35):
Those are the two liquidity events. Now people are starting
to do more with secondaries so that you don't necessarily
have to sell, but they sell their equity to somebody
else in a secondary market. But there doesn't have to
necessarily be a liquidity event with the company. But typically
liquidity event like you ipo or you sell, that's it.
(46:57):
So if you are in you got six years and
we in year five and you are over here like, oh,
you know we're doing this and we're growing study, But
then's your capitalists that invested their money. He was like,
we need to sell them. You're a wrap it up
where's a wrap it up box? Like you need to
(47:20):
wrap this up? And they will force you to wrap
it up if they have a certain level of control
in your company and seats or your board. These vcs
don't have no qualms about putting your ass out if
you don't want to get with the program and putting
somebody in. And for us, it's usually some white boy,
(47:41):
that day homeboy that comes to replace you, and they
gonna make sure this shit gets sold within the next year.
Whatever they gotta do to strong arm it so they
get their money back. That's what they need to do,
or they'll make you close the cobbedy down and they'll
write it off on their taxes, which is better then
a little bit of money gonna get them back. So
(48:02):
they're like, oh, we've rather this thing closed down, and
they will shut you down. So that is the typical
landscape adventure. Not to mention, only zero point four percent
of all venture capital dollars last year went to black
leg companies, so like, not even a whole percent. I
(48:22):
say point four, not four point four, so not even
half a percent, So we struggling to raise when we
do raise. They got us on a leash literally and
they be walking us like dogs on at leash. And
then four percent of investors are black, so we not
(48:44):
getting in on the other side of the table either.
And what that means is when these companies do have
liquidity events, when they ipo, when they exit, we are
not partaking in that. When Uber IPOs and when and
Calling Lee is acquired, we are not seeing that because
(49:07):
there are so few of us who're investing. So we
launched this fund to really address the gap in a
holistic way, the gap with investors, the gap with companies,
and also because I very strongly believe after having sat
in the courtroom for a year in addition to practice
(49:28):
of law, when I got radicalized, I realized that we
can't just put black people in the same place that
white people were and then think that things are going
to all of a sudden change. Just because it's a
black judge and a black bailiff and two black lawyers
in the courtroom don't mean that nigga not going to jail.
So I mean, I hate to say it like that,
(49:52):
but it is what it is. So in VC, I
don't think that we can just raise a fund as
black people with black people and invest in black people
and then everything's gonna be gravy. We also have to
change how we invest. We're coming in extremely early because
(50:13):
typically before people go to VC funders, they will raise
a family and friends round Black people do not be
having family and friends what capital to put it, So
we not raising a couple hundred that we're not Jeff
Bezos where our parents gave us a couple hundred thousand
to get started. So we're trying to solve that. We're
(50:33):
coming in earlier, and then we're also flexible with how
we invest, so we're using different tools. We will do
some debt investing, so investing on a convertible note as
opposed to just pure equity in the beginning, or using
a royalty or like revenue share basis to invest in
some companies so that we get paid back when that
(50:57):
company starts generating revenue from their revenue, as opposed to
we are taking this level of ownership and you have
to exit in order to pay us back. So we're
trying to reinvigorate and reorient this model so that it
actually works for us, because there's a lot of black
folks that don't want to exit. They don't want to
(51:17):
sell this company in ten years. We've big on trying
to find our way to generational wealth, and a lot
of people feel like what they're building is their legacy.
They want to be able to build that or run
a for an extended period of time potentially pass that on.
So how do we get financing to those people too?
Those are the things that we're thinking about, Like, we
(51:40):
can't just do what they've done and expect that it's
just gonna work for us.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
And real quick, I just had to go back and
look point four If you know what, point four percent
of a billion dollars is four million dollars?
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Zero point four percent? And can you believe that some
folks out there are suing funds that are focused on
black people because they don't want us to get the
point four percent. I'm like, we barely even get shit,
and they don't even want us say that. So you
know what I realized when these lawsuits and when this
anti DEI push came, Like I conceptually knew that because
(52:25):
I grew up radical, when I grew up in Savannah,
Georgia slash Montgomery, Alabama. The bus boycott started there and
they needed to come back because these people are just braces, bruh.
They was busting. John Lewis on the head, and I
promised you if he were alive, these people would be
ready to bust him on the head today. So we're
not out of that era. But what I really had
(52:48):
to come to grips with when I like, when this
anti DEI push really came about, and when all these
lawsuits started happening in the VC space, so that they
actually don't want us to have anything. Anything that we
have is too much. They don't want us to have shit.
(53:09):
So when they see us with our little.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
Point four percent of a pie, they're like, not on
my watch, Like what who let the next slip by?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Like it's legitimately? How I imagine that these people are
thinking and then O, Peter, what's up? Like well everything
needs to be decided or married and be like okay,
well how about this. This black company was better than
yours and that's why I'm putting money into them. Oh
the hold on. I'd be like, baby, I'm telling you
(53:48):
my blood. Every day I just wake up and shake
my head like this is America. But but yeah, we
we're we are trying to do something that hasn't been
done before, bringing this number of black investors into a fund,
bringing this type of capital to black entrepreneurs at the
earliest stage, at idea plus stage, so you don't have
(54:11):
to have built anything yet to get funding from us,
which has been accessible for the tech bros and you know,
the college drop out with an idea before, but not
for us. And we're trying to shake some shit up.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
I love it, love it. Look we're getting ready to
get out of here in a minute. But before we do,
what's one piece of advice that you'd give the next
Cadeedra Robinson is getting ready to start her journey. If
you got two, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
One piece of advice I would definitely say, take better
care of yourself because these people will drive you crazy.
You will find yourself falling apart, and they gonna continue
with their lives. They're gonna continue with the incompetent, illiterate
(55:09):
line preacher after they have drained you dry of everything
you got. And as much as I love Black people
and as much as I everything I do, is because
I genuinely love us. I think we are the most ridiculous, hilarious,
joy felled, creative, ingenuitive, like just completely amazing set of
(55:37):
people who have ever lived. They've been trying to kill
us for centuries and they can't do it. We still
two step and while they trying to kill lives dance,
we still learning new line. This is why they trying
to take us out. At a macro level. We cannot die.
(55:57):
But as much as I love us, the saying that
you cannot pour from an empty cup is actually really, really,
really real. And I've let myself over the course of
my journey, get emptied out way too often, and it
just makes you resentful, It makes you mad, burns you out,
and it doesn't actually move the needle for you or
(56:22):
for black folks in general. So take better carry yourself,
no tak care of yourself.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
I was actually just the other day, I was I
was very stressed out about something and some people and
I was and I saw the people, like I was
in this room and I saw the people, and I
was like kind of sitting on this couch, and I
remember I was like laying down, I just have my hand.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Over my hair like this. And I was like, how
come I'm the only one to here stressed out like
they should be stressed out too. Why is it just me?
Why am I soul worrying over there? Laughing?
Speaker 2 (56:53):
And Ki Ki and you know you can't, but I'm
saying you can't carry that stuff. You gotta you gotta. Again,
we don't talk about it, of just like the weight
and the wear and tear that like building something from
nothing and again just getting up every day and to
be in all consuming takes on you. So to your point,
you know, I mean, I know for me, I remember
(57:14):
there were times when, like you know, I would respond,
my body would respond. I would have back spasms and
my hair started falling out a couple different times, and like.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
Oh yeah, I had no edges. At the end of
twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
I literally would developed alopecia, and like I would say,
I had this. At one point, I had just like
a nice little spot on my head that just completely bald,
and I was like, oh, hell no.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
I was in there spraying the stuff on the little
hair fibers. I was like, I ain't living like this
no more. I got me some bioteaine, started drinking some water,
get me some some melon outside. I said, I can't
do this. So no, man, you got to balance yourself.
You gotta you gotta take care of yourself. Because he's
just been a great, great conversation. Please before we got
out of here. Tell people how they can find out
(57:53):
more about the you know, the stuff you're working on
the pit, how they can find you, support you, like,
let them know where to go look.
Speaker 1 (57:59):
I am on social media at DJA don't because when
when Twitter first started, I was there literally and I
grew up loving Queen Latifa character and uh living single
and her name was Kadija and her little line and
(58:20):
she used to save you all the time is Kadija
don't need you, honey. And I was like, yes, period,
I don't need y'all. I ain't going back and forth
with you. So when I got on social media, Dija
don't need you was my handle across all the platforms.
I'm heavy on LinkedIn. Now apparently I'll be cursing people
out on LinkedIn. That's different kinds. They like all you
(58:44):
do is politely curse people out on LinkedIn. I'm like, well,
they decerned to be cursed. But I'm heavy on LinkedIn.
And I also I own the domain name because you know,
one thing entrepreneurs love to do is buy a domain.
We have an idea, we buy a domain. So DJA
don't need you dot com you can find me there
you can find all my different ventures, everything I'm working on,
(59:06):
and hit me up.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
The fact that you not only built a business but
also got sold it all while being digital, Nieja, just again,
I can't, I can't. I can't top that, Kadija, Thank
you so much for pulling up. This has been an
amazing conversation and we out. That's the pod.
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Y'all.
Speaker 2 (59:25):
You've been listening to button Nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler. Got comments, feedback? Want to be on the show.
Send us an email today at hello at butternomics dot com.
Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia at iHeartMedia by
Ksey Pegram, with marketing support from Queen and Nikki.
Speaker 1 (59:40):
Music provided by mister Hanky.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
If you haven't already, hit that subscribe button and never
missed an episode, and be sure to follow us on
all our social platforms at butter dot atl Listen to
buttteron Nomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Five
Host
Brandon Butler
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