How Cxmmunity Built the First and Largest HBCU Esports League

Cxmmunity’s Ryan Johnson discusses the journey of building the largest HBCU Esports League and the company’s mission to diversify gaming. Explore how this initiative is bridging the gap between culture, education, and the esports industry, empowering the next generation of talent.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's your kind of north star that keeps you inspired
and going to build this thing?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Ibby Rogie Bro.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
I think the thing that lingers in my head the
most now that if I stop, someone else is going
to take the credit for what we already started.

Speaker 4 (00:11):
Say it again, I like that one, not like Bro.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Go back to what I was saying earlier.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
There were zero HBCUs in twenty twenty that had gaming
and esports programs. I know for a fact that communities
started and helped majority of the HBCUs start their gaming
esports programs. So like, for me, it's like that that's
not subjective, it's very much like objective fact. And I'm like,
there's no way that we're going to start this and
then let some third party company go raise ten million

(00:36):
off of a deck idea to then monetize it off
of this community that they had no connection to in
the beginning. So again, when I look at our story,
I actually watched Bob Johnson's story a lot because what
Bob Johnson did, he was like, Yo, people of color
want to see themselves on TV. They want to see
themselves and events in magazines. We are the culture. There's
no distribution network for this culture. Let me build this

(00:59):
thing called black entertainment television. And what I'm saying is
that CXM is going to be that exact same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hey, what's going on, y'all? Welcome to another episode of
butter Nomics. I'm your host, Brandon Butler Butter atl And
today we have a special guest in the house, mister
Ryan Johnston, Community Media.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Ryan.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
How are you doing today, bros Man.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I'm doing good man. I appreciate y'all for having me on.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Man, Now look for those that don't know, man, like
we know you did the game and guru, y'all doing
all stuff, Like what is community Media?

Speaker 2 (01:37):
You know? So community Media?

Speaker 3 (01:39):
We're a media tech company based here in Atlanta, Georgia
that focuses primarily on connecting diverse audiences to brand through
gaming and anime initiatives. So in real life what that
actually means like from a consumer standpoint? I always say,
like our companies claim the famous that a few years
ago we created the first video game in the Esports
League in North America for HBCUs. So I guess just
kind of give some a quick back story in context

(02:00):
why we even kind of started down this journey of gaming.
The whole nine So we learned is that nearly eighty
three percent of black youth play video games on a
weekly basis, But when you look at the nearly four
hundred billion dollar global industry, only two percent of the
industry represents African Americans. So we wanted to figure out
as like one, me and my business partner Chris, we're
HBCU alum. So like we didn't need a thesis, Like

(02:21):
our thesis was, Hey, we were students. We didn't need
much market research to know that kids at these universities
are already playing video games. They're betting in dorms for McDonald's,
for cash, like whatever the case may be. And we're like, well,
what if we created an infrastructure that actually allowed them
to compete in gaming in esports just like traditional sports.
So over the time, at the time when we started,
we had literally there were zero HBCUs and twenty twenty

(02:43):
that had gaming in esports programs. Now they're about sixty
seven universities throughout the throughout North America out of the HBCUs,
I just say specifically that have gaming in esports. And so,
like I say, our claim to fame is that we
initially started there and built that out. We're now going
into our fifth season of the league, and it really
gave us this perspective that, all right, cool, that's what.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Competitive gaming looks like.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
But what about other elements that are pillars of gaming,
like music, fashion, sneaker culture of food, and travel. And
then we started building out other events, series, digital content
properties that really touch all of these different categories across
the game and vertical.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Man, so folks who don't know, there's a lot of
opportunities out here. I mean some people have probably heard
a phase clan before. I'm sure people heard of like
AMP or you know, consinat. But like, it almost seems
like video games just having a moment right now. It's
always it's kind of been brewned under the surface for
a little while, but it's kind of gone mainstream now. Like,
how do you feel about just seeing all that stuff
kind of become more and more front street? You know,

(03:41):
is interesting? So to your point, I think it's becoming
more mainstream. But when you look at the categories of entertainment,
gaming is the largest form of entertainment.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
It's larger than film, movie, film, TV and music combined.
We just talk about annual revenues. So these are the
things when you just talk about gaming, A lot of
times it's the activity. A lot of times we are
thinking about the elemented games, the production, the marketing, the distribution,
you know, the actual management. A lot of times, to
your point, are communities focused on the front facing consumer side.

(04:10):
So a lot of times we are aware of amp
phase kysinet like what's happening in the industry, But when
you're actually about what's happening on the business side, who
are making those decisions, what are the companies that are
driving kind of like the change, you really don't see
people that look like us that are making those decisions.
So that's why we felt like when we've learned the
data that so many people, that young people were playing

(04:30):
video games on a weekly basis, and then when you
looked out in the market, there was no platforms or
programs that actually directly market it to people of color
in the gaming industry, We're like, well, that's our angle,
and like let's just run that direction one thousand miles
an hour.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, Now, do y'all only work with HBCUs or are
you working with like other colleges and universities too?

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah know, so I just like to preface with the league.
But now as community media man, we have a very
vast community. So we work with colleges and universities, we
work with the general market, we work we have a
very robust like creator network. So like the way I
like to explain it that community media is kind of
like our parent B to B organization. So like my
goal with community media is to work with holdings, companies,

(05:08):
agencies and brands to really understand their goals and objectives
and how they're looking to reach multicultural, gen Z millennial audiences.
And so we either use the HBCU Esports League, the
Kickback or Trap Sushi as one of our three assets
to actually then engage with those communities. So throughout a
calendar year, we do about twenty two livestream broadcasts for

(05:29):
HBCU e Sports, We do four tent pole in person
experiences with the Kickback, and we have twelve monthly event
well we have one event a month, totally twelve events
with Trap Sushi. So all in from like a total
attendance standpoint, we reach about twenty five thousand people in
person a month, but digitally we reach about two hundred
million people. A month through our different creator and owned

(05:51):
and operated channels.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, and y'all just said, I know, not too long ago,
y'all did a deal where y'all did like a partnership
or like a semi acquisition of Trap Sushi. Like, just
explain to people, are those three different? You know businesses
said Trap Sushi to kick back in the course.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, So, I think when we looked at the gaming market,
we understood that there's different audiences within gaming, right, A
lot of people, like before the show we're talking about,
you know, there's competitive gaming, there's social gaming, and then
there's really like that blend of competitive social. But I
think the really big element that we lean on is
like culture, bring in like music, artists and entertainers. So
HPCU Esports is just that it's a competitive esports league.

(06:27):
So literally think of like the NCAA. It's a twenty
two week long season. Howard plays Morehouse, Fisk University plays
Oakwood University. They play for a record in a regular
season that goes to a playoffs that then determines the champion.
And then we do that across different titles like NBA
two K, Madden, Call of Duty, and Fortnite I think
the distinguishing factor for HBCU Esports is we also provide scholarships.

(06:49):
So in the last two years, we've done nearly two
million dollars with the scholarships to active HBCU students that
are playing in this league. So I have like close
to ten to fifteen students in the last two years
that have earned over one hundred k playing and like
within the HBCU Esports League itself, so the kicker there
is that, So that's more of like the tournament organization side.
So then on the business side, we handle the production,

(07:11):
we do the sponsorships, and we do the media rights
for our league as well. So through that side is
when we bring in brands, just like again the NCAA
for US, we've had historically Verizon discovered Nike, and Hot
Pockets and Mountain Dew are like our season sponsors for
the HBCU Esports League itself. So like that's that structure.
Then we have the kickback. The kickback is a little

(07:33):
bit different where it doesn't focus on competitive gaming and esports.
That's more so around the careers, education and music. So
we're literally doing the kickback September DC September nineteenth in Washington,
DC is actually our first arena activation, so I'm like
personally super excited about that.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
But the way that program works.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
In the morning, we bring in like one thousand K
through twelve and college students. They go through panels and
workshops about careers within gaming. The middle of the day
we do a gaming tournament, and we conclude kick back
with the concert. So even from like a musical perspective,
the last few years, we've done push a t we
did g Herbo. Last year we did n L E Chappa.
I feel comfortable saying it now. We literally just executed
the agreement. So on September nineteenth and DC we'll have

(08:13):
JID So like we're actually just like finding these creative
ways to really bring this education and information into our community,
and we just do it through these interactive, live and
virtual events. And then the last one trap sushi, gaming
and anime they go hand in hand, right, And then
when you look at culture now, I think the perfect
example is like Megan thee Stallion. Right when you look

(08:34):
at her most recent album, like there's anime references, there's
video game references on nearly every single track. But for
us being so heavily focused on our main assets. We're like, hey, look,
we don't need to create a competitive asset to figure
out how to get into gaming. Like, let's just invest
into an organization that's already doing amazing work and has
a strong community, and let's figure out how to bring
our worlds together. And that's what resulted in the investment

(08:56):
into Trap Sushi itself.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Okay, and you do that through all your you know,
your partnerships, so you know who are some of the
main brands that you all work with to help make
all this stuff happen.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah, so actively right now, Exfinity, Microsoft, we do a
lot of work with Nike. Nike is really cool one
because we do a lot with like their virtual goods.
So when Nike's doing like literally just yesterday, Nike announced
a partnership with Lego and that I'm assuming is going
to tie down the road into Lego's partnership into Fortnite,
and Nike has Nike World and so like where I

(09:26):
really started to recognize, like, our opportunity is working with
these with these brands and almost like these future marketing
plans and strategies of how they're trying to connect through
to these audiences, and a lot of times it has
to do with gamings involved.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, you know when you think about it too, I
mean you're make it a good point because when you
think about it, you know, all these brands are essentially
competing for attention, correct. And you know, as a former
you know, app developer, software engineer, I would always tell people,
you know, you're competing not just with TV shows. You know,
you're competing with candy crushing on people's phones and stuff now,
but you know, if people are playing video games like
you're saying, and it makes perfect sense for these brands

(10:00):
to want to get involved with organizations like yours or
even get involved from the games. I mean, you're starting
to see more in game advertising exactly. I can only
imagine what kind of stuff's going to be out on
GCA six when it drops, exactly. But I think these
brands are starting to kind of recognize that, you know,
a lot of this attention is going into video games,
and so how can we kind of put ourselves there,
Like when they come to you, what kind of you know,
problems or you know, what kind of reasons are they
coming to you and community media to work with you about?

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Yeah, primarily I don't want to necessarily label it a problem,
but I think what they see value when is the
fact that we have this community of like not only
digital impressions but actually real people that show up at
these activations, and we have the ability to authentically help
message one their product brand messaging to this audience. But
then also you know, transparently it boils down to like,

(10:43):
you know, their bottom of funnel when it comes to
like purchase intent, brand favorability, and you know, for us,
again kind of marroring the fact, marrying the fact that
we have this community, marrying the fact that we have
these brand audiences, we just have the responsibility again to say,
like how do we then create a program or a
can and pain.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's value add to both sides of the coin.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
And what we know historically is that when you look
at the gaming ecosystem right now, there's big events like
in Atlanta, there's dream Hack, right There's other events like packs,
there's the esports. There's a lot of different things that
go on, but again, none of them cater to people
that look like you and I not saying that people
don't show up that look like you and I, but
I think holistically, what we recognize is when you look

(11:23):
at the diverse media landscape. You know, we cover fashion,
we cover music, we cover food, we cover beauty and travel.
Is that a single major, scaled, diverse publisher that talks
about gaming and anime?

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Something will tell me you all started working, But like,
what was it like getting that first brand deal? Like
how does that happen? Where you cold? Because a lot
of people don't know right lives. I've talked to people
and they don't really understand what it takes to even
start finding brands and partnerships. So is that something you
all were kind of actively seeking? Were you cold emailing people?
And if people kind of reach out, like what was
those first couple of deals?

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Like jero so I think the jonah that.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
I'll just like share a bit about my background So
before community media, the reason I actually moved to Atlanta
after school in twenty fifth team. My background is in sales,
so I actually started out doing it sales with Vanish
business here in the city. I'll stage yeah, like crazy
like literally cold calls, door knocks, but on the B
to B side, not the consumer side. So right out

(12:15):
the gate, I had learned how to begin speaking, talking
and developing like a sales funnel and a sales process.
So I went from IT sales to IT consulting at
a business in the King and Queen Building, and literally
I left Corporate America in twenty eighteen to go back
to Georgia State full time to get my master's in
sports management. And it was the practice of understanding now

(12:37):
the world of sports business in sport and an actual
formal practice, and marrying my day to day job and
then understanding like, hey, oh cool, I'm already going to
tech conferences and networking and closing deals on the IT side.
It doesn't seem too far fet to think that same
process would exist if I start going to sports marketing
gaming related conferences and meeting brand marketers that are literally

(12:58):
trying to do the same thing but just through a
different perspective than I was doing in my corporate job.
So it was as soon as we started, it was
cold calls, going to events, networking, shaking hands, you know,
introducing people to what we do. You know, one caveat
I would love to just share, you know, to kind
of speak to this as well as a little nuanced
about our company is. Before Community Media's launch, which was

(13:19):
September twenty twenty one. We actually started the Community Foundation
was our first baby in January of twenty twenty. So
I like to preface and mention that because under our foundation,
we already had some very strong partnerships with brands like
Microsoft and Verizon. Where we decided to start a separate
for profit business was when a lot of our partners
were asking us to do things outside the scope of

(13:41):
our five oh one c three. So we're like, hey, yeah,
we can definitely do this, but you know, as black entrepreneurs,
like I'm not trying to get caught up in know,
financial scandals and using the like a foundation the mask
as a for profit. So we're like, yeah, let us
handle this. But first, internally, we need to stand up
another organization let's call it Community Media, and that will
serve as our marketing, appizing, production talent arm and still

(14:02):
to this very day, our Foundations serves as like our
academic community based you know, teaching kids about coding, game
design part of our part of our business. So I
say that to say is like we launched the for
profit with like seed capital and the fact that we
already knew that we had brands that wanted to invest
in the work that we were going to be doing now.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
And for your background too, that's interesting. Were you always
kind of wanted to do something in the video game
space because you were saying you doing ITT sales and
then you went and got to sports management. Did you
just like see an opportunity and kind of went after
that or was this something that you always want to do.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
So I'll get the quick background roll.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
So, like my goal in life was always to be
like a basketball agent.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Okay, that was my passion. That was why I wanted
to go to Georgia State.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
At the time I was at Georgia State, I was
interning it like these small international like FEBA firms and
all this stuff. Through that process, I was like, you,
I actually don't want to be a basketball agent. I
want to say as far away from this as I
possibly can, but I want to stay close to culture
in sports. I played high school college basketball, so like
it's a part of just like who I was. To
answer your question, the kicker was around and don't quote

(15:04):
me on this, right, between twenty sixteen and twenty eighteen, right,
Georgia was one of the first five states in North
America to launch varsity high school esports. So what that
actually means is that all of our counties here they
have esports. So there's varsity teams. As I mentioned, we
created the HBCU Esports League because there was already majority
pwis that had esports at the collegiate level. These pwis

(15:26):
are recruiting down, so that means young black kids are
missing out on scholarship opportunities, they're missing out on new
internships that are coming into the.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Market, the whole nine.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
So what we recognize is that inadvertently the state had
alienated a lot of schools because all the titles in
the first two years were computer games. So if your
school couldn't afford the computer lab, the hints, you couldn't
have a esports team. So we're like, yo, as this
is going to grow throughout North America, this seems like
it's going to be a problem. Sort of like community
could be the group to be the voice for these

(15:54):
inner city schools initially to help them actually ramp up
and get an esports program. So that was like the
major fact about, Hey, we see this happening right in
front of us. I'm in the midst of this in
a sports management program in the city of Atlanta. And
to your point, my passions for gaming, for sports, for music,
it all exists within the gaming industry, So like, well,

(16:16):
why don't we just go down this route and through
this process. You know, our organization, one of our ambassadors
is like Ocho Cinco, you know, we work with major musicians,
is like touching everything that we love to do all
through this industry of game and is like been kind
of crazy. But that was the background of why we
got started, was just seeing the problem and just wanted
to help kind of fill the void in Atlanta first.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
But now we spread that throughout North America.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, it's also interesting to think, you know, especially with
y'all launching the foundation around January twenty twenty. We all
know what happened, you know, around February March April. How
did the whole pandemic you know impact your business? Like
I know, for me specifically, even though that was kind
of a terrible situation, you know, from a butter standpoint,
we actually grew a lot during that time. I remember
telling my team, you know, look, y'all, everybody's about to be

(17:00):
at home on their phone, so we got to find
ways to like lean in and kind of provide value.
And I think for Butter, we kind of created a
lot of separation and kind of like really helped solidify
our space and culture. But from your standpoint, especially from
a video game and standpoint, did y'all see any you know,
specific benefits of that you know that time?

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, bro, for sure.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
And I always say, like, going back to January twenty twenty,
shout out to Joey Willmac from Goody Nation, Bro, because
it was his panel that I did that. I was like, yo,
I think this is an idea, and then I quit
my job like no, no, like literally the next week after,
I was like, I'm gonna try this thing community. So
I always say like, thank you for that. We work
labs program. I always say the Goodie Nation, we work

(17:38):
labs piece. But to your point, we saw exponential opportunity, right,
so marketing budget shifted, media budget shifted, social impact budgets increased. Also,
you got to think it was COVID and George Floyd simultaneous.
We were then a group that was talking about gaming
and HBCU esports in community and they were like, yo,
this just makes sense. So that we actually saw within
like the first call it eight months. You know, we

(18:00):
were working with brands like Microsoft, Verizon, red Bull because
this was all kind of part of like this new
revent marketing strategy and so like early on that was
our kind of like kickstart. But the main thing, as
you know, kind of being a brand marketer is like
continuity and renewals, right, So it's like, how do you
then create sustainable programming that not allows brands to show

(18:23):
up for a moment, but that allows them to show
up for a movement, right, And so that's kind of
been like the main focus from day one is like
we as a salesperson, you know you can close a deal.
As a salesperson, you also know the hardest thing is
to get a renewal, right because as soon as you
get a deal closed, that.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Means fifty other people are calling.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
They're trying to figure out how to upseart your deal,
how to short and so like for me, that's kind
of been the main focus. It's just like despite getting
this brand bought in, it's like, what do we need
to continue doing in the community, know, put intended in
the market to continue to show value outside of what
other call it brand partners are bringing to the table.
And so I just think that has been a big
part of why we've seen some early success and you know,

(19:01):
you know, knock on. What continue to do is, yeah,
we're providing traditional marketing insights impressions, but it's this actual
connection to the community and this growing space. And that's
what I tell my partners all the time. It is like, yeah,
y'all are sponsoring an event, but like, look at yourself,
no different than like the first partners of the NBA.
Right Like, when I look at what we're building, it's
seventy five years down the road. It's going to be

(19:23):
a media network of you know, the NBA Cares, it's
going to be NBA All Star Weekend. But it's all
going to be wrapped around this ethos of gaming as
kind of like the central passion point.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
Yeah, so come back to net Like, how big is
your team right now? With community?

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Right now we're ten full time and what's that? What's
that process been like building the team? B There's been
ebbs and flows, right, I mean we've had probably as
many as eighteen, we've been as low as six, right,
and so right now I think we're in a really
good place. We literally just brought on two new people
in the last month to help with like our content
and our like our account team. But now we're growing
a team. One cavet All also say, we're like I

(20:00):
grew up an only child.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Shot me too.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
There you go. And it's like you always have this
vision of like, hey, I have this thing in my head.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
I want to bring it to life, and of course
you know you need people, but then I don't think
you realize how much you may need people until you're
actually in the process, because you're not used to having
people around. And so I would say early on, delegation
was really really really hard for me and just like
being able to like hand out certain tasks just because
like everything's so close to your chest. But then I realized, man,

(20:29):
like with clear instruction, clear follow up, delegation is probably
like the best thing that's ever happened.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
Yeah, man, delegation exactly.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
And so again, just going as an entrepreneur, you' like
you always hear it, but like you never really feel
it until you're in it. And it's like, man, just
being able to be open minded, be flexible, you know,
care about other people's problems outside of the business problems,
like putting like people first is something that I'm even
still learning how to do versus like the business first,

(20:56):
but now growing a team. It's been a process where
I was like, it's almost like a mini fanamily to
a degree, and some family members like get divorced and
others start new families. So like it's just very interesting,
like just kind of being in that process. So that's
what I always related to. But it's it's definitely been fulfilling.
But me as a I guess going on as a
five year entrepreneur, still learning that process of like what

(21:16):
it actually takes to properly manage and grow grow a team.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things I
have probably done best in my career in the last
i'd say five to seven years is really learn how
to become a better manager, learn how to you know,
work with people, how to lead people, and also how
to like let go of certain things. Like the one
thing I always kind of tell people is what I've
realized is, you know, nobody's going to do stuff the

(21:40):
way you do it, right, So we all have to
kind of come up with a personal threshold, right, like
are you okay with somebody who can do something seventy
five percent eighty percent as well as you can do it.
That last twenty is a tough putt, you know, that
last twenty that's the magic maybe only you can kind
of bring in. It's something only you can do. But
if you can find somebody that pretty consistently can get
about seventy five to eighty percent of what you typically do,

(22:01):
and that then frees you up to do other things,
it means a world of difference in the job of
a CEO. It's kind of like the work themselves out
of a job. It's to enable people and kind of
put people in places so that you can focus on
working on the business, not in the business. But how
has that been for you?

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Though?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
You know, if you've been pretty hands on, what's it
been like letting go of that and saying, you know what,
that's not quite how I would have done it, but
it got done and I'm cool with that.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
So I think it was like a mixture of the
only child syndrome and the entrepreneur like, hey, we have
to deliver for brands, and like finding the balance between
both because then it's just over time you do more deals,
you get more comfortable just in your own role. You
realize the things that may have mattered a lot to
you are literally they may not just be that important, right, Like, hey,

(22:46):
this format and a document may not like it literally
doesn't matter, right as long as the deliverables match, right,
the clients are getting what they want. Again, there's still
standards we have, you know, SOPs, we have all these processes.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
But I've had to learn just be like it's okay.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Like that's what I find myself saying more than like
literally on the way today, like we had a little snap,
a little hiccup yesterday with some stuff, but got situated
this morning. Like an old version of Ryan probably would
have carried that with him until four o'clock.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
This afternoon, right like and just stewed on like why
was it like this? Why not the way dude it?

Speaker 3 (23:19):
That's literally what I said on my way here. I
was like, it is okay, it's done. Everyone's happy, it's cool.
And I think it's more of like I'm developing more
emotionally mature than anything. And that's why I say, like,
I think by the time I have a kid, I
think I'll be a solid parent, bro, Because I feel
like all the things that would may have made me
frustrated in what I see in my other peers that
have like little ones.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
I was like, I'll be able to that'd be cool.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
What's what's been the biggest thing you've kind of learned
in this journey? Is it kind of just being learned
how to work with people in that capacity or because
there's just again, I think a lot of times people
they kind of discount the entrepreneurial journey. You know, it's
kind of being you know, fetishized a little bit in
my opinion. And plus people also kind of think too
for some reason, it's bad to have a corporate job, right,

(24:14):
And I always tell people like that's almost like going
to college if you really want to be an entrepreneur.
Like the ability to learn how to do you know,
work on somebody else's dime goes a long way. But like,
what has been some of the biggest lessons that you've
kind of learned just through this journey of the last
five years.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Oh, honestly, bro, Like the last week has been very
eye opening because I like all my lessons, I feel
like I've consolidated. But I would say, like I realized
this past week is like what's for you? What's for me?
Is for me, and what's kind of for you is
for you. And I think that's been my biggest learning
in this journey, is like being able to cheer for everyone.
And I think a lot of times that, even in
a weird way, opens doors for you.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
When you're like, I'm.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Very excited when a peer of mind that's an entrepreneur,
we may be competing for something similar, like you may
get them, Like, yo, that's that's mad dope, bro, Like
I'm super excited.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
I think being open minded. I say a big one
is perseverance.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
You know, also kind of a part of my personal life,
a part of the fraternity Alpha Ba Alpha, and we
have a poem, don't Quit. I find myself saying that
poem a lot. And it's like, I think a lot
of times I see people give up right before they should. Yeah,
And I think seeing that enough times is enough motivation
to keep going. And so I like always lean heavily

(25:23):
on perseverance.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
It's like it's never going to be easy. But the
ones that I have been.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Following and I look up to, the other thing I
can confirm more than anything is that they never stopped.
Like I don't know what else they may have had
going on in the background, but it's like, what I
do know is that they have just never stopped. And
that is kind of like my plan until we get
to the point of like, hey, we're we've achieved what
we personally set out to do. We're kind of going
through internally with the company, like what does our exit
strategy plans look like? Right? And still in my mind

(25:52):
thinking through that, right, and so anyway, bro, I just
feel like that it was an awesome question, but it's
like I would boil it down to being open minded, perseverance,
and then like literally just cheering for everyone.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Win for you is necessarily a loss for somebody else, right,
Like everybody can vice versa, yeah, and vice versa, like
both people can win and it can be okay. Or
even if you do something and you know this other
brand gets a little bit more money than you, like,
there's still opportunities to kind of win. I think again,
a lot of times people get so caught up in
it's got to be like we get look competitive, and
reality is like the more you kind of help people
and bring people along, all kinds of opportunities open up.

(26:25):
But even to your point about just being tired, I
mean again, everybody. Look, look, y'all. I don't think y'all
understand everybody that's an entrepreneur at some point is wanted
to quit.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
Is one to give up?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
You know.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
The thing that I always kind of lean into when
I think about that is there's this really good book
by Seth Godin Caught the Dip, and it talks about
if you think about your career, you just think about
doing anything important. There's a moment when you say you're
going to do something, and it's almost like you're on
a cliff and you're on this cliff and everybody's congratulating, Amen,
congratulations you graduated from college or you and now you're

(26:57):
starting this business. Everybody's happy for you. And then you
got to step off that cliff. And when you step
off that cliff, you're in the work. And nobody sees
you when you're in the work. Nobody sees you when
you're in the dip. Nobody sees you when you're dealing
with some shit at two o'clock in the morning, and
you're like, man, why am I even doing this? And
that's the moment where you got to decide do I
want to quit or do I want to keep going.

(27:19):
I tell people all the time, there's nothing wrong with
quitting if you don't want what's on the other side.
But if you know you want what's on the other side,
you got to keep going and you got to push
through in those kind of moments. Throw when you do
get it, because it happens to all of us, Like
what keeps you going? What's your motivation? What's your kind
of north star that keeps you inspired and going to
build this thing?

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Ibby Rogie Bro.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I think the thing that lingers in my head the
most now that if I stop, someone else is going
to take the credit for what we already started.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Say it again, I like that one, not like Bro.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Like we go back to what I was saying earlier.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
There were zero HBCUs in twenty twenty that had gaming
and esports programs. I know for a fact that community
started and helped majority of the HBCUs start the gaming
esports programs. So like, for me, it's like, it's not objective.
I'm sorry, that's not subjective. It's very much like objective fact.
And I'm like, there's no way that we're going to
start this and then let some third party company go

(28:12):
raise ten million off of a deck idea to then
monetize it off of this community that they had no
connection to in the beginning. So again, when I look
at our story, I actually watched Bob Johnson's story a
lot because what Bob Johnson did, he was like, Yo,
people of color want to see themselves on TV. They
want to see themselves and events in magazines. We are

(28:33):
the culture. There's no distribution network for this culture. Let
me build this thing called Black Entertainment Television. And what
I'm saying is is that CXM is going to be
that exact same thing for the genre that we're focused
on for gaming and anime. But these same topics is
like I always call them the three letter acronyms, be ET, V,
H one, MTV, CNN, you know TN, T. You go

(28:56):
to T and T for high action movies, right, You're
going to go to CXM for all things culture, music, gaming, anime,
upcoming releases. The fact that Tecans did a collaboration with
Nike phone posits and they're doing, like, where's that information
being really spoken about? Where the events that follow those,
where are the community programs that support those? And I'm like,
that is what our mission vision is through everything that

(29:17):
we're doing.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, now, where do you kind of see the future
of you know, esports and you know HBCU sports and
just gaming in general.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
Right, Like again where everybody's thinking about.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
You know, obviously virtual reality is going to be a
thing coming up soon and just even more immersive games
and experiences. But you know, if you had to kind
of you know, I would say put on your Apple
Vision Pro but those got discontinued, you know what I mean.
But if you can kind of see around the corner,
like what does gaming look like in the next five ten.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Years, I think gaming will look like traditional sports. You
say five or ten years, Yeah, what I just said
is I think fifteen, twenty, twenty five, thirty years down
the road.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
So that's what was like. I think five or ten
years is going to look similar to now.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Right, You're going to have more events like the Kickback
and like dream Con, and it's going to be more
of those. But when you're talking about the development again,
I was so thankful for my program at Georgia State
because it talks you through how sports were developed. I
think a lot of times we look at sports now
are like this is what has always been no, Like,
at one point in time, it was literally fifteen people
watching what is now the NBA, and it shed right,

(30:17):
and like that has now grown and developed to franchises
and billion dollars this and star athletes and shoe endorsement
did but that has been If you look at the
NFL or baseball, that is a one hundred year time span, right,
And so I think over time those communities, especially the
interest of younger generations, you know, I think our early mistake.
We talked about mistakes earlier. I think my earliest mistake

(30:38):
is that we market it too old, right. We try
to convince active college students and people that were recent
alum that gaming is cool. But respectfully, we missed the boat, right,
gaming was just that pastime. But no, the younger, the
kids in high school and middle school, they're the ones
that are looking at the feasibility of trying to be
these creators. And like tuning in the live streams was like,

(31:00):
we really missed the market the mark on our marketing
super early because we just went for the wrong crowd.
We try what everyone else was initially attempting, was hey,
let's take traditional sports model in the traditional culture marketing
model and like, let's just drop that into gaming, and
I'm like, now that doesn't work. It has to be
grassroots and developed from the ground up and then incremental

(31:21):
investments over time that then actually lead to a program
that's then scaled year over year over year. So the
answer to the question more directly is like, when I
look at the future, it's that it's academic programs, is
community programs. Again, I look at it no different than sport.
There's gonna be your LA fitness basketball group. There's going
to be your intermural clubs. There's gonna be professional leagues,

(31:42):
they're gonna be international leagues. There's going to be you know,
special events. Like all of this is kind of just
be wrapped around this banner of just gaming, but again
not as hand on the controller as an interest point
and a passion pillar to actually now say gaming is cool.
You gotta think bro For us for the longest time,
if you was in a gaming anime, it was black
is a nerd?

Speaker 2 (32:02):
You lame, you.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Whack you out of pocket. You know, don't sit over here.
What we're doing is saying like, no, all that stuff
now is in the mix. Yeah, like it's not excluded
in its own thing. But matter of fact, we're not
trying to join you. We're just trying to bring all
this stuff over here. Like we're not trying to make
who the forgotten about black people were cool? They've been cool.
From our perspective, y'all are late to the party, like

(32:24):
gaming's not late. Hip hop is late, like entertainment is late,
like we've been doing games deft jen Vendetta came out
twenty years ago. So yeah, just as an example, but
we at that time wasn't tapped into that as a
means of mediums for like revenue generation for our community.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
We just spent money and consumed it. So we're trying
to put that on this head.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
And you think that, you think that again kind of
staying true to that and also again like finding those
like not growing up, the kind of growing down in
the audiences. That was probably one of the bigger tactics
that that really kind of helped y'all be more successful.
You think there was other kind of inflection points that
helped the business kind of through. Like I always again
like when you kind of look back on it, you
can always think about the moments. Always makes sense when
you look back on correct, you know, So what were

(33:06):
some of those kind of moments, of those inflection points
that you know, you can kind of see the growth
of the difference.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
So I think it was after we did the first
one or two years of HBCU Esports and in the middle.
So the thing about ESPCU Esports is one hundred percent virtual,
so the kids are competing at their dorms, We're doing
a live stream out of Atlanta. But in the second
year we ended up doing like a small in person
activation in Washington, d C. With all the local d
and v HBCUs and just seeing that in person camaraderie

(33:33):
and kids cheering like the Hampton kids cheering for Howard
over Morgan. I'm like, nah, bro, this is real, Like
its actually more real than I thought. And the step
be next after that was all right cool. When you
look out in the world, there really is no gaming
collective for people of color, right, Like, So we launched
this initiative about three years ago, two years ago called

(33:54):
Big Creator. Initially it was like, let's bring together small
creators and help them become larger creators. But we got
twelve hundred rugs strengths and twelve months. So now like
even on paper, we own the largest We are sincely
organized the largest digital gaming collective in North America, right,
like twelve hundred people that are active, and these twelve

(34:15):
hundred have their own community. So like now we're trying
to figure out like all right, cool, well how do
we layer the big creators into our marketing strategies? So
like we're just trying to find all like so many
different ways to get our community involved, and no pun intended,
we ask community or just the quarterback, but like the
real players are these independent groups throughout North America. Trap

(34:35):
Sushi here, Trap Sushi in Montana, the Trap Sushi in Mississippi,
the community in Tennessee that none of them know, they
know about each other, but there's no one bringing them together,
so or like like let's just try and organize this thing.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
No, yeah, first you got to kind of collect the
dots and then you kind of connect the dots. And
I think when when you do that, you kind of
see these new opportunities and nuances like oh yeah, if
I connect these this group of this group or you know,
this group of this, all of a sudden a new
kind of opportunity. But that means you got to kind
of keep yourself open and flexible, right, And you know,
Jeff Bezos has a great quote that I love. It's like,
be stubborn on your vision, but be flexible on the details,

(35:10):
correct because you don't know how this stuff is going
to work out, and sometimes an opportunity kind of you know,
pops up that you didn't expect, or you know, something happens.
Has that ever happened where you know, you all kind
of went into something, you know, thinking there was going
to be a moment, then all of a sudden, either
a celebrity pulled up or just something happened in that
moment where you're like, wow, I didn't even realize this,
but we're riding this wave now.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, man, it's it's crazy, bro Like.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Even so you spoke about a little earlier, so like
I would say, like, there's two moments that were defining
for us, and then there was a Seleverty like moment
that kind of came out of nowhere, something that also
kind of put us on the map. In twenty twenty one,
we were one of the marketing partners for the release
of the New Space Jam movie. So like our responsibility
was we actually created a gaming experience on the Purple

(35:50):
carpet at the screening of Space Jam Out and at
Los Angeles. So it gave us like a ton of
visibility to like Lebron and like all the casts in them.
So we're like it was a eye opening and say,
like all right, cool, there's a lot of feasibility not
only in gaming but in Hollywood and what's happening. So
since that moment, we started working with like movie studios

(36:11):
and we do screenings in Atlanta, like with Dune two
was the most recent one we did. But with Dune
there's a game, so like now the studios are like,
we're creating these gaming movie like experiences, which was like
really interesting. Last year we gave away a million dollars
with Mountain due to HBCU students and two different tournaments,
one for Mortal Kombat, one for Call of Duty. And
I'm like, when you start four years ago, like I'm

(36:33):
not thinking that, hey, there's ever going to be a
chance for literally sixteen black kids to compete for half
of a million dollars in these tournaments. Like Roder just
graduated nine years ago. I was like, bro, like we
just I barely just missed the shit, you know, Like
in what's going on. But even like with the Kickback
last year, you know, to your point of why, I say,
like everything that's just supposed to happen, how it was
supposed to happen, what was for use for you? We

(36:55):
had a headlining artist, unfortunate things happened forty eight hours
before the show had to pull out within forty eight hours.
Who secured the new artist? Nli Choppa. Come to find out,
Chapa is a huge gamer. He's a huge streamer. You've
seen a lot of the content recently with him on
Kai stream and then because of his affiliation, and he
brought out a lot of other talent that he's cool

(37:15):
with that's in Atlanta from Memphis. So like we had
like this mini festival concert and it's like it all
worked out right. So to your point is like you
know what I was gonna say is the original talent
would have been great, but we had Choppa. He's facetiming
Kai live on stage at the Kickback right. So now
for the first time ever, I'm seeing our events like

(37:36):
going viral in the Shade room and so I was like,
all right, now that's when I knew. October twelfth, twenty
twenty three, I was like, nah, we got something, yeah,
and we just got to figure out how to structure
this and organize it. But more more importantly, how do
we have business process to sustain it? Because we're not
fun it bro all, we're still bootstrapping this whole thing
and still trying to make everything happen. Bro.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Hey man, y'all doing good. Y'all, boots trap the man.
I see the acquisitions out here, I see the moves
that happen.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Kind of do some stuff.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Now, let me ask you this.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Let's let's switch gears for me a second, as a
as a gamer, because you do play games.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Also in war Zone Heavy.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
If you could create a game, like, what game would
you create? What game needs to exist? If you could
make any video game you wanted? What video game needs
to exist?

Speaker 4 (38:22):
In your opinion?

Speaker 2 (38:23):
And that's a crazy question, bro, like this heavy question.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
I don't know because I mean, Rotch, you like everything
I would want I think exists. Cause again, when I
play games, I was telling you a little earlier, right,
I play first person shooter, so Halo Battlefield, Call of Duty.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
For some reason, I feel like I would personally want it.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
I wouldn't want it for the perception it would create
in America, but I would want like a Call of
Duty based in like inner cities. Okay, but I'd already
like even saying that I don't like the concept from
a marketing standpoint. I just like the concept of the
game itself and just being able to play in like
neighborhoods and just like a different twist. But every version

(39:00):
of a basketball game exists, NBA Street and one I
was really big and like the Tony Hawk games growing up,
like the action sports series SSX tricky, I mean, real
cheer like I don't know, but let me say this.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
I will.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Actually I have one so something we're talking about with
one of our partners with the Trap Sushi team, But
I would love to see an urban style fighting game,
so def Jam Vendetta. But that's like too urban but
not like too fantasy, but like right in the middle
with like a hip hop soundtrack.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Okay, I'm with it.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
So I don't know what it is, but what I
do know is that if we were to create a game,
I would test it within our community of gamers, like
with a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
So like I think that would be really cool.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Is like you have this urban style teching like Street
fighter like game, but it's all about urban So for
lack of better words, I would just call it the
Boondocks fighting game. If we're just call it like a thing,
it would be a Boondock style fighting game.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah, just called the boon Docks. It's like the boon Docks,
you know, I.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
See my boy ar Oh fun fact, so I grew
up in Columbia, Maryland. Aar magrutis from Columbia, Maryland. So
like Boon Docks, iran higher than anything. So it's call
TV right there. That's quality TV right there. If Aaron
would allow us BRO to do it, I was like, Bro,
let's send a partnership right now, we're bringing the developers,
we have the community.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Like that thing will go absolutely crazy.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Well, Uncle rukus character, Bro, what special special powers like
saying bad words that hurts your feelings and like your
health just diminishes or something like that. But no, like
that's that's that's what I think it was. It would
be something similar to the fighting style of the Boondocks
with that anime feel with hip hop sound.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Man.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
I'm not even gonna lie.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Man, if I can make any game I want to make,
I fell down the the GTA rabbit hole for like online,
like watching a T Grizzly and all those guys, and
I'm like, man, we just need like an Atlanta GTA server,
Like just recreate Atlanta in here, call out the game.
You know, you can go to a Falcons game. You
can get in a fight fit in the fight with
a Saints.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
Fan in the Falcons game.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
You know what I'm saying. You got to you got
to go defeat the Varsity. You know, you gotta go
eat at the varsitay and eat it. I can just
see it right now. The water Boys.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
I got to take the.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Jr Crickets to Alpharetta within fifteen minutes, like crazy side
missions and stuff like you.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
Got to get somewhere.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
But it's traffic, like I'm telling you, like Atlanta GTA
game would go crazy because Atlanta culture travels very very well.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
So let me say this.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
So a big part of what we do now is
like to your point GTA service Fortnite, you can build games.
I also like to do opportunities in every chance I get.
I was like, well, let's do it. I'm telling you
right now, like it's it's something that's very feasible. Like
we have the development like we build in game right
now in Fortnite as an example. Yeah, right, So the
idea like that's on our roadmap is GTA six.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
I mean, I don't know what it's going to look like.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Community is one hundred percent going to own a server
in the GTA environment create many games. So like for us,
that's just like a big part of our down the
road strategy is also having a studio, because like it's
nice that I get to play other studios games in
my leagues. But the grandest idea is that if I
have this community who's been playing non diverse owned games

(42:03):
their whole life and love it, Let's make games that
people like us know and love, Let's develop them, let's
put them in our leagues, let's put them in our events,
and like let's run it that way. So like community
studios is something like maybe two, three, four years down
the road. But when I think about the future of
what we're going to be doing and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
Well, look, I'm gonna tell you right now.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
If there's a you know, GTA six server the community's
working on one, want to butter to get a piece
of the action.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
I try to get in the action you know what
I'm saying. I tell you right now, we need this.
We need this Atlanta version.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
It's going to be crazy now that that would be sick.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Hey man, So look before we get out of here,
just one last thing, like, what's some advice that that
you either go.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
Buy and that you kind of remember.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Like I know you were talking about the poem earlier,
but like, what's just a piece of advice that you
know has been really helpful for you along this journey.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yeah, so I would definitely say, like, y'all should definitely google.
I think you just google. Don't quit Alpha filef for
the poem just pops up on Google.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
No read that. I'm trying to like that.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Poe is crazy, right, But my second job, the job
at the King Queen Building, it consulting the boss, Robert Pastor,
crazy enough for even to this day he sits on
the board of our nonprofit. So like people for my
past life are still very involved in like are current
And he always just say the same thing sticks in
my head.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Be quick, don't be in a hurry.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Be quick, don't be in a hurry now, Like that's
kind of been in the back of my head this
whole time. Is like you'll see a lot of other
startups headlines raising this, going here, doing that, but a
lot of them stick, a lot of them don't. And
I just think for me, especially living in Atlanta, Atlanta's confusing, bro,
people got money?

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Do they not got money? Is it shaking? Is it not?
Like you can get caught up in that and this?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
When I get caught in my own like headspace, I
just say the same thing, Yo, be quick, don in
a hurry, stay the court, like stay the course. And
that's the one thing I always share the same people
ask the same question on most podcasts to say the
same thing, Yo, just you're good, Just be fast, Just
do not rush because that rush process where people make
a lot of mistakes. Every time you start owning a
lot of money, they start losing a lot of things

(43:57):
that were once theirs.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Just be quick, but don't be in a hurry. And man,
I love it. Look before we get out of here, Ryan, like,
just tell folks how can they find you? How can
they support community media? How can they get involved with
these different events all got going on?

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
So I would say all of our events and things
are on our website. So I would say to follow
us on Socialist community dot co, so that's on all
social platforms. That's also our website as well, so if
people want to check that out. But for me parsonally
my Instagram and Twitter. Ryan ran it up. So now
I'd love to connect if there's any people that a

(44:31):
listen to that are in the game, and if you
have kids that you feel like, well, while my kid
always on the game, got a solution for that, academic programs,
the whole nine, So definitely tap in. And we have
a lot of events. Our next big event in Metro Atlanta.
I know this is outside of Atlanta. This covers outside
of Atlanta, but our next big event in Metro Atlanta
will be the first week in December, so more information there.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
But we'll be talking about all of that on our
social platforms over the next few months.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
And just let people know because community needs spelled like
they think it spells, let them know how to find
it now.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, you know that's crazy to hear other facts.
So it's c X, you and I Y.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
And actually I'll address that really quick because people usually
say like why X. So again, going back to my
early point of when they launched the Esports you had
to have a computer lab to be in it.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
So basically gaming.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I should have said this in the very beginning, bro,
if you just look at it, gaming is divided black
and I'm sorry, white and Asian, European PC console like
PC mainly minority families are mainly consoles. Right. That's kind
of like the great divide of this conversation. So X
is the only button on an Xbox PlayStation, Nintendo and
a keyboard. So for us, we're trying to bring all

(45:34):
this stuff together versus looking at things in segments. So
that is the X and Y the X so see
X MMBU and I T Y not traditional spelling.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Community.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
The level of intentionality behind that is just chef's kiss.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Man.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
I appreciate you, yo, man.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Look, thanks for coming out, man, congratulations and everything. Can't
wait to see the rest of success. And you know,
y'all make sure y'all support community.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
Media and all they do.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yep, thank y'all.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
All right, y'all, that's the pot.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
You've been listening to buttteron nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler comments feedback. Want to be a part of
the show, send us an email today at Hello at
butterdomics dot com. Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia
at iHeartMedia by Ramsey, with marketing and support from Queen
and Nike. Music provided by mister Hanky. If you haven't already,
hit that subscribe button and never missed an episode, and

(46:21):
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