How Lori Hall and Jessica Lane Built a Multicultural Agency Their Way

On this episode of Butternomics, our host, Brandon Butler, talks with Pop’N Creative founders Lori Hall and Jessica Lane about turning uncertainty into opportunity. After both were laid off from their corporate roles, they teamed up to build the kind of agency they’d always wanted to work at—one rooted in culture, trust, and real collaboration. They break down the realities of working with friends, what makes their partnership thrive, and why saying no is one of the most powerful things a founder can do. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are married and work right, we are like we
have a shared bank account for the company. That is
lots of zeros, lots of lots of We have multiple
comments in that thing. Right, we have to decide on
how to spend that money. Right, and we have to
decide on who let go, who to keep. We have
to decide on, you know, like what lawyer to bring in,
what this, what that, which business to take, which business
is not to take? And all that can be right
for confrontations, right for conflict. So make sure that if

(00:23):
you're partnering with somebody, make sure that your relationship independent
of the new business is tight and strong.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Button Nomics. Tommy
host Brandon Butler found the CEO of Butter atl And
today we got a two for one. Yeah, not just one.
We got two amazing ladies in the building thiss days.
How y'all doing this morning?

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Feeling amazing? Incredible, incredible?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, y'all are incredible because we got the one and
only missus Lorie Hall and Miss Jessica Laine of Popping Creative.
Y'all feeling all right, good, good well, Thank y'all for
hold up And how y'all enjoying Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Oh my god, I love this Atlanta weather. Let me
tell you something, this weather is everything except for the
rain with the warmth is everything.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, I agreed, that's gonna say.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
Because I was coming back into town, so of course
I hid into the craziness of the airport. There's no
fun like getting Atlanta in the airport at midnight because heartsivil.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Jackson goes nuts after hours.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
So me and baby girl three months old, we were
traversing the air train, walking or doing all the things.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
I felt for you though I was, I was bleeding
for you. I was like, oh my god, not ground
stops delayed.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
That's very adventurous. That's something I'd say. That sounds like
an adventure better than me.

Speaker 5 (01:35):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
When you get about the airport, it's like the bathrooms
over there.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah. Well, look, for those who don't know, please tell
us what is Popping Creative? Yeah? When we started, yeah,
go far.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
So Popping Creative is a multicultural agency, and so we
both started it in twenty twenty February of twenty twenty.
So that's that's the story, right before the pandemic, and
our goal was we both come from the entertainment space.
We both come from television. We both were very passed
it and bullish on just like multicultural space, multicultural marketing,
and we felt like we never could find an agency

(02:06):
or the right fit while we were on the brand side.
And I tried to nudge her like, hey, girl, I
think we could do this ourselves.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
That's cute, all the questions we have. I think I
think we can build us ourselves. Let's let's do it.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
And so, you know, I kept nudging over the years
because we worked together at TVs and C and T
and then we also worked together at TV one, and
finally she was like, Okay, I think we can do it.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Let's do it.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
We got a little mad.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Creative, and it's like, you know, when you're in certain positions,
sometimes your creativity can be kind of dulled if everybody's
not feeling your ideas. You're like, oh, here's a great idea,
here's this amazing thing, and sometimes it might get cut
for budget, it might cut because priorities have shifted, et cetera.
And I just saw that we were coming up with
these dope ideas and we could never really get them
off the ground because of the economy or because of
what the company's priorities were. So when she came back around,

(02:51):
I was like, girl, we can't do times. So it
was time and thankfully I chose the right partner. Hopefully
she chose the right partners. But we met every week
for a year building the business, and we literally sat down,
went through rate cards, went through what the name's going
to be, went through trademark, went through this, went through that,
and for a year we built it and when we
were ready to launch, it was a no brainer. So

(03:13):
that really helped. But you have to have your complimentary
person with you. I think if you're going to have
a partner, make sure they compliment you, they're not exactly
like you.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yes, yeah, And those like weekly meetups like what were
some of the things y'all discussed, Like you were using
like your experience working in you know, on the corporate side,
on the brand of the agencies, Like what was some
of the stuff y'all?

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Sure? We were thinking about like all the problems that
other people needed to solve or we needed to solve
with agencies, and we were like, how can we create
an agency that would actually do all of that? A
lot of times people would ask us for recommendations and
we could never fully recommend a multicultural agency without caveats,
and that sucks, like we're dope as a people, But
it sucked that we couldn't really give a full recommendation.

(03:49):
So we set out to build the agency that we
wish we had. So we talked about rate cards. We
called agency people that we knew. We were like, hey,
can you tell us, like what the rate cards should
be because we have no idea. We asked somebody for mentorship.
We were like, hey, what are the top two or
three hires we need to make when we first start out,
and he was like legal accounting period, that's it. He's like,
get those two things tyed because the creativity is there

(04:09):
with y'all. So just getting advice so we didn't make
missteps was really big for sure.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
And also market research, so especially because we've been in
the industry for a while and then I also went
to business school like Kellogg. We had tons and tons
of like brand marketers to kind of like compliment what
we had on the television side, just tell us like
what they're looking for, who, like what were some of
the holes there? How much were some of their budgets
in their spend because that was important too to help
size and scale the market that we were trying to
tap into. And so each week we were kind of

(04:34):
goind to dig down that path and try to figure
out and kind of shape what this kind of platform
and positioning should look like.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
So y'all were doing the meetups and all that stuff
was coming together, and I think for again for a
lot of people. You know, everybody talks about kind of
going all in, but it was sound very strategic about
how y'all kind of backed into a writ It's like,
you got bills, you got insurance, you got needs like
being able to like parallel path and start building this
business idea while still do the doing your main job.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Right, and you got to got to a point where
y'all decided to kind of jump off.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Like what was that point for y'all said, Okay, you
ready to You had your first contract?

Speaker 1 (05:07):
No, hell no, it was the pandemic. No no for me. Actually,
we had built the business and we launched it February.
So what's interesting is Jessica and I worked on the
same team. So she worked on my team in marketing.
She was ahead of my digital and social team, right,
and so she actually needed to move to Atlanta because
her husband had a job in Atlanta and they had
been living separately, but it was time to move. You know,

(05:27):
you got to keep the family intact, and so I
campaigned for her to stay on as the head of
Digital Social but at the time, the company didn't feel
like work from home was realistic.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well that changed, listen, listen.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
But honestly, that was the best Like at the moment,
I was kind of bummed. I was trying of crushed,
but that was the best setup because had they and
I said no, girl, you don't have this job anymore,
I wouldn't have had the initiative and I would have
had the like, oh, you know what, let me pull
it together and let's make this work, like let's make
pop and work. Because now I don't I don't have
a job. So now I had to figure out what
this looks like. And a couple of people offered some
really good advice and just really, you know, your network

(06:03):
kind of engaged. So first another agency owner, what works Martin?
He told me, he was like, Okay, this is how
you start. You need a contract that's going to give
you sixty percent of your revenue that you made prior
to and then you hustle for the rest. And so
then I went about getting that first contract to make
sure that I was good, to make sure we can
transition and jump into poping full force. And then Melissa

(06:23):
Ingram at Aspire TV, I was chatting with her and
she gave me that. She gave me that contract because
she was like, I'm looking for someone full time.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
I can't afford you full time.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
And I was like, well, actually this might work because
i'm looking for something. I'm looking for something part time
and I can use my skill set.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
She was like, this is gonna work.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
So she was able to give me that first contract
at a shout out to Aspire TV.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
That gave me that sixty.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
Percent, so then I could hustle the rest and build
with Lori for Popping exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
So I was still working in TV one at the time,
so just launched Popping with the spire like doing that contract.
So she was launching it. I didn't work on Popping
yet because I was still fully employed. And so then
April hit, the pandemic hit. I got laid off in
the pandemic. I don't share that story a lot, but
I want to share it more because people need to
know that just because you're laid off doesn't mean that
you're not going to do something else. And so the

(07:07):
amazing part was we had built Popping over a year.
So as one door closed, the other one, I just
walked right through. And so Jack I told Jess. I
was like, yes, I got laid off, but all these
headhunters are coming after me. You know, Disney is trying
to shake out a big job to me, and and
just said, pop, it is my next chapter. So like
like we got to make this work together.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
And just tell them to sit on to the side, right.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
And I will say that initially I was kind of
like a little hesitant because being an entrepreneur, it's like
you have to eat what you kill. And we asked
one of our good friends, Romone Cortees. We were like, hey,
you had your own agency, how was it. He's like, look,
sometimes you might not have enough for Ramen, like it
is what it is. And so you know me, I
was like, not enough for Roma, like like not even
and like.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
You know, the.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
A couple of noodles great, but you have to have faith.
And so because we had built it for a year,
because we were ready, because Jess had started it, and
I was ready to walk through that door. Once I
got laid off, I was like, you know what, this
is it, This is it. I had a nice little,
you know, package that I was collecting on, so I
was good money wise for a little while, and I
use that to fund all my bills. So she and
I actually were able to self fund ourselves while we

(08:15):
built the business. So it's not like you're expecting a
profit immediately. You know, you have to actually get clients,
you have to get contracts, and her spoking contract was
for her because I was still working. So then we
went out together and had to pitch our very first client,
and I was so nervous because it was this badass
marketer that trained both of us named Tricia Milton, and
she said, let's go to her. She's head of marketing
and free Form and I was like to the form.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
I was like, girl, let's just do this. We're just
going to go Torisia. We're gonna make it happen. She's like,
I don't think. I'm like we're doing this. We are
doing it.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Because I wanted to be ready, I wanted to be
like so tight. I was like, she could everything and
so we got tight.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
We go out there.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Finally I was like, okay, let's ask Tricia. We go
out to California fly out. We have champagne bottles with
little orange striped straws. We had popping cupcakes, we had
all this stuff. We pitched her and her team fifteen
people in the room, very first pitch, and afterwards everybody
leaves and she says to us, she says, you know
how many people have y'all pitched before us? And we
were like, you're the first. She was like, damn, I
got no notes. That was great, and we're like, so

(09:10):
that's kind of how it kind of evolved. That was
our first client as Popping overall interns, a corporate client,
and we had that contract for three years.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like, you know, I think
a good thing I'm pulling away from this too, is
relationships really important? Because I hear keeper hearing y'all say,
is you know, you had people that you could talk
to in the industry to get context and background, but
then also getting to that first big contract, that big
first opportunity was another relationship. Like how critical relationship has
been and helping y'all really help build this business from

(09:39):
scratch because again, like especially in the agency space. Look,
I know I've worked in it too, right, Like, yeah,
you're doing biz dev, you responding to RFPs.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
But again, and that can be a whole just workstream
in it within itself.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Oh for sure, the ability to actually be able to
pick up the phone call somebody and have you know,
have a kind of a friendly, warm lead goes a
long way. Like relationships kind of helped y'all build the business.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
I mean I I didn't know this, and I tell
people this all the time that some of your former colleagues,
some of the former people that work for you, some
of your former bosses, are going to be the very
first people that hire you when you start an agency,
the very first people because they know your work ethic yep,
and they know who you are. They know whether you
have dope ideas or not. They know whether you can
execute or not. And so people that even were more
junior than I was when I was a turner ended

(10:20):
up hiring us, like Stacey hired us at Sony like
you know, like and we had a really great roundtable
with Gabrielle Union and you know, it was just amazing.
So I would say, do not burn bridges, do not
be an asshole. Like the people who are around you,
whether they're above, below, or to the side of you,
those are going to be the people that are going
to help you build your business, and you just don't

(10:40):
know what yet.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
And I feel like added on to that, of course,
there is the relationships that help fuel the business, but
then there's the relationships that help fuel the work because
in the creative space, it's not just you, not just
the team. You partner with production, you partner with fighting,
you partner with fabrication, you partner with content creators, so
you partner with a kind of a whole ecosystem of
creative And we leverage a lot of our relationships, even

(11:02):
just from the television space to make sure that we
had the right creatives in place to make sure that
we can deliver on the.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Campaigns that we sold.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
And so that is extra important too, to make sure
you're building up the network of people to go to,
like I have this project, I'm trying to build this
like you know, who can who can.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
I call on to make this happen?

Speaker 4 (11:17):
And who can I call on that that's going to
make it happen With excellence, the same excellence that we
are setting apart in the same excellence that we're expecting.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I think if you're a dope person, you're you're a
dope person. So you can just call people if you're
a good person. I think people recognize that and they'll
want to do business with you.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Look, I've I've tried to make it a point of
mind to you know, just have good relationships people that
I work with, and like I don't ask for stuff much,
but if I call, I expect you to pick up
the damn.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Because yeah, because here's the thing I know.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
For me, I've made it my mission over the years
to try to put as many people on as possible.
That's with no expectation, right again, because you never know
what people going to end up at. What you have
people that could have been junior one day and you
gave them an opportunity and all of a sudden they
overhear somewhere and that opens the door for you, right,
And so it's really important, like say, to not burn
those bridges. But like when y'all did start actually building
the team, like what was that moment you said, Okay,

(12:03):
you know what, we need some people in there we
need some help.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
One of the things I hear about a lot of
times people that come on the podcast is building a
team is the hardest part of the learning their business right.
It's like finding those good people and then also keeping
them around. So, like, when it's time to make that call,
how did y'all do it was time to start bringing
people into help.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
I think we do it with time because I feel like,
especially in the agency space, like it is all about
client service and the only way you can provide consistency
and client service if you have a consistent team. And
so when we started to kind of have a couple
of clients and wanting to make sure we had repeat clients,
we started to realize we need to have a team
in and then we also need to have almost like
an approach or a system on how the popping way
to treat clients, how often you're going to respond to clients,

(12:42):
how quick are you going to respond to clients, or
the expectations when you have an RFP and deliverables, what
does that deck look like, and making sure it's consistent
from points to point. So once we realize we're not
just at this point, you know, we're not consultants. We
are trying to build a sustainable business. We needed to
make that shift in terms of have people who can
make sure that they're in place to build and grow
with us. So we started with kind of like like
I guess, permoalances, if you will, like started with kind

(13:04):
of freelance contractors that we would have retainer based relationships with,
and then that eventually transitioned. I feel like that was
in twenty twenty, but by the end of twenty twenty
we started hiring people full time, and so that was
kind of that runway. So I feel like that whole
kind of summer leading into that early fall, it was
really kind of permoalence and freelance structure. And then I
can't remember when I exactly our first employee was, but

(13:26):
it was the end of it was the end of
the twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think so because we first started because it was
a pandemic, a lot of people lost their jobs, right,
and so Jess and I thankfully had the same level
of excellence when it comes to work, so we never
really had to like gut check whether what we were
doing was excellent. We didn't have to like follow behind
each other. But when the work got so big that
we needed more people. We had good friends that were
dope marketers that needed to just stay you know, creative,

(13:50):
and they were like, hey, I don't mind coming to
work with you. You don't need to pay me. I
just want to keep my creative shops going.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
Yeh.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
So literally, one of those women, Keisha Taylor Star, she
was working with us and then she went on to
be the CM of a network group. Right, So we
had that level of talent helping us work, right. So
we did that for most of twenty twenty, and then
at the end we decided to hire people because we
were like, hey, we need to have consistency of excellence,
consistency of work. And the great part is is that
we always made sure that we could afford them. Like

(14:16):
our biggest thing is we've never missed a paycheck.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
We don't operate raggedy.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
That's just a's word. I love that, just like we
can't be raggedy's raggy. So we've always paid people, paid
them on time. Even when you know you can get
kind of screwed as a entrepreneurs sometimes by people. We
do right by people no matter what, it doesn't matter
it's like, we want our name to be good and
we want to feel good about what we do. So
in the twenty twenty we did that and now we're
at fifteen people employed full time today.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
No, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I mean, you know, as somebody that's again run an
agency before, like I took a lot of pride and
also just people taking that belief in me, especially from
a full time standpoint.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Sure, it's like you have.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
People that have families and things that depend on and
like I took a lot of just pride and knowing
that we were kind of helping to put that out
there for them. I always have a rule too when
it comes to work, and I always say, like, you

(15:10):
can't work for me until you work for me, and
so so it sounds like again y'all kind of have
the same thing. We had a lot of people that
start off as you can work with in the past,
their work ethic, you were just you know, you hold
things to work out, right, work things work out, but
you never know. But like knowing the kind of the
quality of working on getting always helps out. But like,
how did y'all manage, you know, to keep the creative
vision tight while also have to now manage like HR

(15:31):
and all.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
The back office stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Again, like there's what they say like working on the
business and in the best Yeah, you get to do
those same things.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
So how did y'all manage both of those things?

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I think I think that you know, gosh, how do
we I mean, we've we outsourced for what we needed
somebody else to cover. So HR, thank god, we know
dope people in HR want to work with us, and
so we can outsource for that. And we have a
really good system now, really great person that is our
HR representative. We hire business people and then it start
off as our business people, right, They started off as

(15:59):
may be in an assistant role in this and that,
and you realize they have amazing financial chops and then
you're like, okay, well let's work on this because we
were doing finances on our own. And so then we
started to groom people into certain roles and now they're
able to handle a whole division of the business. So
we have our operations team, which we call our co
operations team. We have our account management team, and then
we have our HR. And so we still have some

(16:20):
things that we need to fulfill. But what we can't
fulfill from a full time role. We actually just outsource
so that's legal, that's accounting, that's HR, et cetera. So
that freezes Jessica and I up to stay on the
creative vision because that's really important to us, is that
we maintain dope creative right.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, first and foremost right.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
We want to hire dope creatives who are in our culture,
of our culture, because that's what we started out to do.
We wanted to make sure that we hire the dopest
people in the business, right, And so that allows us
to focus on the creative aspect, whereas all the other
stuff that we don't really want to deal with, we
can have other people to help inform us, and then
we made those decisions.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, as co founders.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Just help me understand too, Like how do y'all kind
of split responsibilities, like who does what when it comes
to the creative stath.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, So I guess we really spent it on kind
of our expertise, especially because I came from like social
digital world, so I kind of initially worked on a
lot of the making sure that we had an approach
for like our social content projects or kind of content
management projects, as well as kind of video production.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Because at TV one.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
That's kind of what I did there, and so I
was able to help build out and grow that part
of the business. And then Laurie she her expertise and
she was always a traditional television girl, so she kind
of did a lot of the on air and Laurie
is also a masterful team building, team structure, let's figure
this out, and that sort of thing as well, So
she has a perfect vision an so how do we
align resources and how we align assets, as well as

(17:35):
kind of creative side on the on air side in
terms of how we do how we do big rich storytelling,
which is always important, and then of course you have
your big reach storytelling, but how do you break that
down into the pieces that our team can then go
and build and grow and.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Groom and turn into these wonderful campaigns.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, and even from a functional perspective, like Jess does
more of the business development, she also managed more of
the finances because that was kind of her world from
being business school at Northwestern. She kind of understood that
a lot more and more detail than I did, and
then I was freed up to kind of do the
sales stuff. So she was like, hey, I need you
to go out there and run these people down and
get these clients. And I used to be like, because
I had a little bit longer of a tenure than

(18:12):
just just because I'm a little bit older, and so
I was able to reach out to people that i'd
even you know, known for a little bit longer in
our history together. So I was able to kind of
focus on sales. She focused on making sure the money
is working, so everything is running smoothly. Sure can't afford
everything that we were setting out to do, so it
works really well.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, and again I remember y'all telling the story of
how when you started, you kind of got everything running
and then the pandemic hit, Like y'all got that first
big client in Woo and in the world stopped for a.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Second, like client and we were going to Essence Festival
doing an outdoor activation.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
What happened? Tell me about that? I mean, it was,
It's funny.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
It's like the high and low of that whole time
period is like my boggling. I was like, I feel
like I'm getting sweat just talking about it. Because we
were so excited to get to again. We pitched our
big we piched our old boss stressa at free Form
and we got this big opportunity to bring Grownish.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Grownish was the.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Property they're like priority property at the time, down to
Essence Music Festival, and so we were so excited, got
everything locked, the contract inked, all sow all the things,
and the world started to crumble. So it's part of
the like NBA got shut down, correct and then everything
was gonna shut down, and we kept thinking, oh, by
April it'll be fine, and then April came, was like, oh,
I'm sure by July it'll be fine.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
And then the world was like, no, it's not going
to be fine. And then they was like no, this
is not fine.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
They started you know, shutting people, people started getting laid off,
and they were certainly like, this contract is gone, so
this is what you'll have to you know, get what
you can say, your services rendered, your hours worked, and
we'll have to figure it out another time. And I
feel like that crushing, like you thought that this was
the moment and then it to just be snatched away
was humbling to say the least. Yes, definitely humbling to

(19:50):
say the least. But I mean it definitely taught us
that again you do have to have faith and what
you gotta believe at the end of the day, like
I feel like crazy believe not. I mean, I know
this is controversial, but now I understand why Kanye. It
was like why Kanye loves Kanye, Because if you don't
have that, you don't have that ultimate faith that you
are the dope is out and this is going to
work out, you will crumble. And so even though it
hit us, we were like, you know what, we can
figure this out. We are smart, were intelligent, we can

(20:13):
figure this out. We can figure out our next steps.
And so that's kind of what we did. We had
to we had to pull the pieces together and figure
out our next steps.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
I mean thinking about how having to strategize in the
middle of a pandemic that's never happened in the world before,
and trying to figure out, well, what new services am
I going to offer? Right? And so for us it
ended up being that you know, March, the world shut down.
We were trying to figure out our new business strategy.
And then in May when George Floyd was killed, we
saw everybody trying to pop up and support Black Lives Matter,

(20:41):
almost opportunistically, and we were like that's so performed, Like
what amative?

Speaker 3 (20:45):
What are you doing is convenient.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
So we start to look at everybody that was posting
about Black Lives Matter and then go back to their
websites and other platforms, say, okay, well, is what you're
putting on social match what you're doing on the web,
because what you're doing on the web match with what
you're doing in real life. And we saw such a
disconnect and we were like, oh, so it matters, but
not as much as it's twenty percent off sale, not
as much as you know, other priorities that you have.

(21:08):
And so we started to see people trip up. You
saw it with like Starbucks when they tried to forbid
people from wearing a Black Lives Matter pen because they
thought it was political versus they always gave out the
pride pins right, So that you started to see all
these rubs and we were like, these brands are doing
it so wrong, like what are you doing? So we
ended up creating a white paper to show who was
doing it right, who was doing it wrong, and what

(21:28):
the nuances were with how they got it wrong. Not
just you did it wrong, but let me show you
exactly where you messed up or exactly where it went
left for you. So the other brands could learn from that,
and we did that. We put it out. We didn't
even think about making money off of it. We were like,
we just want y'all to do it right.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
So we had a little time, We had a lot.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Of time in the house, yes, and so we put
it out there and it got all this press pickup
that we didn't even expect, Like it was just unbeknownst
to us that people start calling us for interviews. Brands
would start calling us to train their teams Black people
would Then big brands would start to say, hey, I've
been preaching the same thing for a while, but nobody's
listening to me. Can you come in from the outside
until these executives it's the same thing that I've been

(22:07):
trying to tell them for years. So that actually ended
up sparking a lot of buzz that popping, and we
got so many write ups like Variety, like you know,
like industry rags, and so that ended up propelling us,
but in a direction of what people then thought was
like D and I, which that wasn't necessarily our scope. Right,
We were a creative shop. Yeah, we did experiential, we

(22:28):
did social, we did digital, you know, we did marketing, strategies,
but now all of a sudden, we're opening up to
this whole new world. But that also opened us up
to new clients, so it kind of was a nice
hand in hand thing.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Again, it was one of those things that were you know,
it's always interesting right when you just kind of do
what needs to be done, right, and then opportunities kind
of come from that because to your point, y'all didn't
do that with the intention of, you know, getting into
more of those those type of opportunities, right, It was like, no,
this just needs to be done, but all of a sudden,
opportunity to started coming to you based on putting it
out there.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
And I'm thinking that's a lesson people can take away.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
It's like sometimes again, you just got to do the
thing and you'll be very surprised and how the world
will kind of respond back because you're doing it just
with like your own intentions about and that resonates with people, right.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Too many times today, I think people when they're thinking
about being an entrepreneur, they're trying to think about how
to make the money, how do I make the money,
how do I make sure that I do this, And
they'll say, oh, I have a great idea. I want
to go ahead and trademarket that costs money. I want
to go ahead and do this, And you're worried about
all these other things. But it's like, what are you
passionate about? Yeah, because that's what fuel you when nothing
else is going to feel you right, Like you're going
to go full speed ahead with something you're passionate about,

(23:33):
versus let me just try to make the next buck.
So I would say, like, focus on what you're passionate
about and then try to make sure that you're doing
that first, and then everything else will kind of be
built and it'll come right. So I think that's the
challenge for entrepreneurs today now.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
And I'll be wanting to ask us for a second,
but where did the name popping creative come from?

Speaker 4 (23:49):
That's funny because I feel like it's funny because we
feel like we went back and forth for this, and
I always remember how you said your husband say was like, oh,
how very urban.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Of you are? Yes, yeah, because it wasn't like were.
I feel like we had tried on a bunch of
different words.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
We had tried to switch.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Both, which I feel like it was for a while.
I'm so glad we didn't do that, So that's that's
real whack. But five days yeah, but I feel like
the code switch had rose to the top. And then
all of a sudden, I think you might say, you
were like, what about popping?

Speaker 4 (24:16):
And I was like, oh yeah, And I feel like
who came up with the apostrophe in? I did, because
that's when it started. That's where it started get real.
Urban took credit for it.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I was like, no, no, no, no, But I was like,
what if we did it with p O p apostrophe in?
And I thought it was gonna be a dumb idea,
but I was like, I'm gonna throw it out there anyway.
And I was like, I like that and that was
that was literally it's because we're popping. And so then
we got a logo we gotta you know, and it
just all came Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
I spend after that. So, you know, people ask me
what name butter comes from all the time. I'm like,
I don't even remember come from?

Speaker 5 (24:47):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Look, it's the same thing we brainstorm and somebody just
said butter and I was like, you know what, I
like that, And ever since then, I've like backed into
what it means yeah, yeah, honestly, I didn't really. It
was just like I was on this like yeah, I
was on this like one word thing for a long time.
Yeah Butter, like you know what I mean, And everybody
was like, my last name is Butler. I did not

(25:08):
name that, Like I keep killing people this. But then
I started doing research.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, but Freme
place to the top.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Listen, you know the brand story, but it Butter makes
everything better, It goes on everything.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Oh yeah I made I made all that sh up
like like what you're creative? But it worked. But it
works and it's been working for exactly.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
So let me ask you, like, what does it look
like when a brand is doing multicultural marketing right in
twenty twenty five?

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Like what does that actually seem like from you all's perspective?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Now?

Speaker 3 (25:40):
It's interesting because I feel like we're in a new
world order.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
So it's like, especially in this like where we are now,
to come from twenty twenty to what's happening in twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Five is why complete. It's wild. It's like the complete opposite.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
And so we're still trying to figure out what this
is going to look like and what it's going to
shake out like for the end of the year, because
you know, like d I all of a sudden, d
I suddenly all of a sudden, that work yeah and
it means black.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
And I was like, sins, what y yeah black.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
I feel like y'all are saying something that that y'all
are really trying to say but not saying. And so
we're trying to figure out what that's going to look
like in this new space. But at the end of
the day, I don't think brands have forgotten as much
as I feel like the world is kind of going
after people using DEI. But at the end of the day,
you still have to reach target customers. We still have
to reach target consumers. And your targets are going to

(26:23):
look like your targets like African Americans, Latino, the world,
the multicultural space they buy, and you still have to
find them. You still have to reach them, and you
still have to have conversations with them authentically. And so
what we've been lucky enough that a lot of our
partners that we still working with, they were like, well,
I still need to find them and I still need
to reach them. So still keep building these campaigns because
that's not going away. And the minute that I don't

(26:45):
reach them, well, they will start going away.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
And then my numbers are down.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
And then I'm looking then my boss is looking at
me in terms of like what are the consequences there?
So we still have to fuel growth, and we still
have to fuel those drive those numbers.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
We still have to feel those results.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
And so in multicultural, whereas I feel like DEI is
breaking down, I feel like there's still this parallel path
that people aren't really super vocal about. This says no,
I still need to connect with my relationship with my
consumers that matter.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
I think it's like performative in the opposite way. Right,
So you have to ask yourself, why would you roll
out a press release saying that I'm rolling back my
DEE and I initiatives when it can cut off an
entire market segment for you, Like, why would you do that?
Why would you purposely and intentionally harm your business just

(27:30):
so you can say we're rolling back du and I.
It's performative. It's they want they want to look good
to whoever is at the top, right the administration, whoever
it is. And so it's like there are a lot
of companies that might be rolling back DU and I
that we don't know about, We have no idea about.
It might be internal policies, it might be employees, it
might be their hiring practices, et cetera. But they don't
they don't go out and you know, they're not vocal
with it. But the ones that are vocal with it,

(27:51):
I'm like, what is the real reason behind that? And
I think that's the challenge because now they're leading the
pack with other companies pulling back. We've heard that even
grants are getting killed for anybody that's targeting D and I.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
And so now I'm funding education, funding universities. As I said,
there was a big radical min I'm Northwestern. They got
a big amount of money that was pulled back from
the government based on what policies they had in place exactly.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
And it's such a shift, it's such a one hundred
and eighty degree shift from you know, after George Floyd
was kill everybody's saying black lives matter. So now it's like,
so they don't matter. But then when this community, our
community boycotts, now you're like, oh, well never mind, you
do matter. So I just it's so performative and it's like,
what's the real rationale behind that? Because you need everybody
if you're a brand, you need everybody you do right,
and black people are the biggest consumers. They are the

(28:35):
biggest spenders, you know, like like we have buying power.
So what's the purpose of you really trying to say
we're rolling it back?

Speaker 3 (28:40):
It was interesting.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
I was talking to a friend of mine who she
works for a very large corporation, and she had an
interesting respective on it because what she was saying was
she was like a lot of these people also kind
of in and again I one her to agree, like
I think it's crazy what's happening. Yeah, but she was saying,
it's interesting because a lot of these people are in
tough positions because legally what they've done is almost like said,
if you, if you, if you, if you say this,

(29:01):
they will take money for it, right, And so you
have to your point, you have to get on, you know,
just so people can like try to like avoid not
getting targeted. But like what's interesting is that even though
and again some of them are more active, but there
are some that have actually put it out there and
they are not doing a thing or they're just trying
to be quiet about it. So I put it out
there and be like, yeah, we're ruining this back. So

(29:22):
like no, actually business is still as usual. Yeah you
know so in this commercial. Yeah, so I was talking
about it and she was like, yeah, some people are
can really in a tough position with it because of
just how they've like the language of it is like
so vague that it's like a lot of leeway and.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
How it can kind of be interpreted.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
And so you have some companies some organizations that are
kind of just overkill and being like exactly. But at
the same time, you have some people that are like
saying it, but they're like, all right, we're just gonna
say it, but we're still gonna sit here and make
it happen. We're gonna make it happen. And so it's
gonna be really interested to see how it all kind
of comes together. But like, you know, look, they told
y'all what they were gonna do and put them in there.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
They did, they really did, So we can't act surprise,
I know.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
But why is the D and I equals black? Right?
So they are women, they're veterans there, right, there's a
queer community, you know, Like but largely. You know, when
people say D and I, they automatically.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Think exactly, yes, it's convenient, it's unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Remember you're propping up your businesses. But we're gonna show you.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Look the old heads.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Like Al Sharton was like, look, nobody buy anything from
Target from what you know, and those types of taxes,
whether they work or not, it still sends somewhat of
a message. And I think that that it's good, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Like I tell my daughter all the time, because whenever
stuff happens, I say, look, I'm gonna tell you one
thing that I know and that I've learned is it's
always about the money.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, I'm very interested to see is media.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Q one results come in, results come in, and these
people see how much money they actually lost. I would,
I would, I'm telling you start you know, totally agree.
I'm very interested to see what happens is as all
these Q one results start coming out and learnings and everything.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
And because again they.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
Were so you know, so performative, so big, and so
vocal about it, and let's see what happens on them shareholders,
you know, and when all of a sudden, you know,
they can't they can't put as much gas in the Bentley,
you know, because what our community.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Did was we went to social media and we're like, okay,
let's listen out everybody who is supporting us and everybody
who is not right. And so I think it's so
interesting because people forget about the power of social like
you can reach the masses. Now, it's not like it
is back like it was back in the day where
it's like you had to make phone calls and this,
and that. We can reach masses across the world, right
and you guys are global brands, so we can literally

(31:33):
shut this down. Yeah, you know if we wanted to.
So I think it's interesting. I agree when the reports
come out, you see who's winning, we.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
Go to see.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Now, look all seemed to get along. Really will it happened?
But each other? Like any business, like in situations, I'm
sure there are things.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
That y'all don't always agree on or don't have the
same perspective on, Like when it just comes to like
having different perspectives or disagreements, like how do y'all manage
that as a as a team to make sure that
at the end of the day, you're still servicing your
clients even if you don't necessarily agree on the same
approach or something for sure, and.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
We do get out right out.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
I mean, the great part is I feel like we're
lucky enough because our skills are kind of complimentary.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
A lot of things that I feel strongly about she
might not care about now.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
So I feel like sometimes we have conversations and I'm like, well,
this is what I feel, but I don't feel strongly
about it.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
So if you feel, if.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
You feel like this is the way to go go forth,
And so we have to have those real conversations about like,
you know, cause you don't care about everything equally, like
you've give an opinion, you give a thought, like whether
it be our HR. And I'm gonna say I feel like,
especially in this week, where like we're kind of concerned
and kind of talking about like where the cash flows
look like, especially go on the start of a potential recession.
So we're trying to feel, like, you know, trying to

(32:52):
build our plans around making sure we safeguard the business,
to make sure that we have sustainability, and so thinking
through what do we do here where we place money here,
It's like, well, you know, I maybe we should go
this way, and we give our opinions, we put them
out there, and then you know, we have a passionate
soap box. And then sometimes it's like, well, I really
don't care that much about that one. So if you
feel if you like it, you love me, rock with it.
And so I feel like we're lucky enough and we've

(33:13):
been friends and we were friends and colleagues enough that
we can have tough conversations with each other. And the
funny enough because we're also we're also good enough that
we we both are not super confrontational, and so like,
at the end of the day, we're still both trying
to make sure how you feel about this?

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Though I said this, but how do you feel about it?

Speaker 4 (33:28):
And so we also are very aware of each other's
feelings at the same time that we are also looking
out and being very passionate.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
So it just kind of it kind of works.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
But I am learning a lot about just like my
communication style, just about communication in general. I feel like
I'm going to shout out to my therapist. I feel
like this is it's working through all the things that
I'm not doing well that I feel like it's coming
in real life. I have to talk it out and
I have to say, well, how you feel about this?
And we got to work. We gotta lay out all
the options. We got to get passionate and open and
honest about how we're feeling.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
So yeah, I love that, I love that.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Thank you to your care. No, but she's right, what
Jess might care about I might not care about, right.
And so it's interesting because we've only had a couple
where we were kind of like both pushing and then
one of us always relents. But what's interesting is when
we first started our business, our lawyer told us like, hey,
it's tough that you guys have a fifty to fifty
business because of a tiebreaker. So this is something if

(34:20):
you're going into a business with just one partner that
you have to think about who's the type briker tie break, right,
And so we came up with the rubric that if
the decision has more legal implications, than our lawyer would
be the tiebreaker, if it has more financial implications, and
our accountant would be the tiebreaker, right. And we've never
had to actually use any of them for a tiebreaker

(34:40):
because to Justice's point, like when she feels passionately like
I usually will say like, oh, I don't care that much,
then you rock with it and then vice versa. So
it actually works out for us. But I don't think
everybody does business that way. But we're fortunate enough that
you know, even when we're strong about it, we can
clearly state what our feelings are and then we just
figure out like, well are you fifty forty nine? And

(35:01):
it just works out for us.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
No, That's why I ask again, you have a lot
of people that especially you know in Atlanta, people that
listening to are like solopreneurs. Yeah, and even they do
have a co founder a partner, they might not be
fifty to fifty, right, And so I think, like at
the end of the day, and we use the word
conflict because there's nothing else kind of common disagreement, but
like the end of the day, you know, it is
important to understand how you'll manage those things. Sure, even
within other people in the organization. You know what I'm

(35:23):
saying again, like there's you know, it's all about what's
the what's the book I love is called radical candor
And like talking about life, you don't have tough conversations
because especially when you have employees and people that you
have to you know, there's this conversations that you have
to have, you know, and like, look, look especially when
when you to one, you know, paying to pay separate lights,
you know, and it's like, look, we need to talk
about this.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's like we are married and work, right, we are
like we have a shared bank account for the company.
That is lots of zeros, lots of lots of we
have multiple comments in that thing, right, but we have
to decide on how to spend that money, right, and
we have to decide on who's let go, who to keep.
We have to decide on you know, like what lawyer
to bring in, what this that, which business to take,
which business is not to take, and all that can

(36:03):
be right for confrontation, absolutely conflict. So make sure that
if you're partner with somebody, make sure that your relationship
independent of the new business is tight and strong. Like
if you don't like the way that you guys argue
in real life.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
You're the come on the table exactly. Absolutely not for sure.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
So we've been in this for a minute and you
know we picked right.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah, and you gotta take the ego out of it.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
I feel like, especially in entrepreneurship, it tends to be
the egos tend. The egos tend to seep into entrepreneurship
and in a very real way, and it can blind
you to making sure the business is okay.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
So at the end of the day, we want it
to work.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
So we got to take an ego on ourselves out
to really just trying to understand, like what can make
it work. And if this fight, in all this conflict
is not making it work, we're gonna have to pull
back because at the end of the day, we want
the sustainable business.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
That's a natural when ye and you don't know everything.
I think we have a healthy amount of we don't
know everything. Like so Jess is like, we should do
it this way. I'm like, hu, it could work okay,
you know. Or if I say, hey, why don't we
do this thing and she doesn't feel strongly against her,
she's like, hey, roll the dice. Yeah, And there's a
healthy you know, as an entrepreneur, there's a healthy amount
of let's see, yeah, we don't know, we're gonna so yeah,

(37:10):
So I think that's that's a good thing.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Well, look y'all have made it five years and that's
no small fee. Yeah, congratulations. Well the next five years,
look like in all's opinion, Oh my goodness. Yeah, I
mean I feel like I feel like everyone says growth.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
Going up to the right correct exactly, So I want
growth and I feel like and we are. So we
started and we definitely started really in the entertainment space
and working with a lot of television network, streamers, cable,
that sort of thing, and we're just starting to kind
of branch out into other areas CpG, beverage.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Companies, wine and spirits.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
So I know from just like a vertical standpoint that
we want to grow into other verticals and we want
to and we want to take that uh storytelling, that
video entertainment storytelling foundation and be able to spread that
into other verticals and kind of work that in those angles.
So I know that that is where we're pressing, especially
in this year from a dead perspective, like how we
how do we crack the nut into getting into those
other verticals that we've identified as like ideal verticals for

(38:07):
us and ideal verticals for what we do best.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
So I know that's my area.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
I agree, and I think that you know, when people
can finally understand that, you know, black culture drives pop
culture and that what we do is going to be
mainstream by virtue of us targeting the culture, right, Yeah,
and so like doing as like what Google did with
you know, the best Ever or the Biggest Ever. I
think it was one where you search for like the
best artists, the best athlete, the best listen. They were
all black people, but they didn't say, hey, this is

(38:31):
a black ad. It's just the best, you know. Like,
when we can get to that level of marketing with
some of our partners and some of our clients, I
feel like that's where we want to be in five years,
where it's just it's mainstream. You're not coming to us
for targeted marketing. You're coming to us for marketing and
we give you these ideas that are going to drive
the culture or just you know, be in parallel with
the culture.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
And that's what we really want, and then be backed
by still creatives of color because that's important to us too.
It's like, yes, we want the campaigns to drive the culture,
but we want the people building the campaign to be
a part of the culture. So because like we're always
passionate about making sure like all the vendors that we use,
like you know that we're putting on to your point,
like putting on people that don't always get a shot
in mainstream traditional Madison Avenue type of advertising, and so

(39:11):
that that Longeve, we want to still be building the
relationship with those communities, especially Atlanta atl creatives to make
sure that we are as we are growing there growing
as well.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Absolutely, Yeah, I mean look at them the day.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
I think the people that make the culture have the
best opportunity of sorry, people that are in the culture
have the best opportunity to make things that land in
culture authorically, right, and I think too often those things
get separated.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
So again, when you see moments where you look at
the team that made you, like you've seen things that landing,
you're like, okay, yeah, and I don't know who was
in that room when that got approved, you know what
I mean, the right, folks, I've told you, I've told
people over my career, I've stopped a lot.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Of bullshit from happening just from being in the room.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Absolutely, But you also know that these things go the
rounds of approval. If it goes to the top, nobody on.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
Your squad, you know what I mean, it's like, who
how did this get made?

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Well, look, before we got out here.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Let me ask you if there's another Jessica, another Lorry somewhere.
They want to they want to build something, they want
to launch their own brand, they want to launch their
own agency.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
What do you hope they take away from you all's journey?

Speaker 5 (40:11):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (40:12):
I would say, well, first of all, shout out to
the popping squad that we have, because popping is nothing
without the popping squad. Like, we have dope women who
are all within the popping ranks and they are literally
helping us drive this business. So I would say, pick
the right squad, pick the right partner, and don't let
your ego get the best of you, like, just have
a healthy amount of I don't know, but let's figure

(40:32):
it out.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
Oh what would I say in terms of that was
so good? What would I say in terms of where
they need to go and where they need to plan?
I feel like you got a plan, You have the plan, plan, plan,
but then also be uncomfortable when the plan starts to
fall apart, because in true fashion, it starts to disintegrate
and you're gonna have.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
To figure it out that the pivot is real.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
So I do definitely think you can't jump in without
having a really solid plan, but you got to be
flexible enough to know that. Don't drive your plan all
the way into the ground when it starts to crumble
and it starts to change, be willing to get asked questions,
get feedback, and shift and adjust so you can have
a sustainable business so you can be around those five years,
ten years, fifteen years, and also get you know, obviously
get acquired, bought sold in. You know, that's the dream

(41:14):
for any We would not be here.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Without Jessica planning. I'm not the planner. Jessica is an
amazing planner. I'm like the visionary if you will. She's
creative as hell, but she's also like, but it's gonna
be tight. Let's put this down on as the plan.
And so make sure that you're thinking of complimentary skill sets.
If you are the creative person and you suck at
details and you suck at planning, do not get another U. No,
go get you a planner. Go get you Jessica Lane,

(41:38):
Go get you an amazing person who's going to compliment
that so that you can build something great. Two of
you is one too many.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, that's a bar bar far right there, y'all.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Stop.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Well, look This has been an amazing conversation before we
get out of here. How can people find out more
about Popping Creative? How can they support you all? How
can they find y'all give them all the things.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
Yeah, so you can find us at our web site,
popincreative dot com. But of course all the social channels
at Popping Creative and then of course each other. Yes,
so I'm Jessica Lane, Alexander at at Lane jes d
and and my I.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
G is at LORI j A y l O r
I j A Y. So when you spell popping, don't
forget it's p O p n Okay, do not spell
the whole word out pop n creative.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Well, just Laurie appreciate y'all so much for coming up,
pulling up and sharing. You'll journey with us. Congratulations on
hitting year five. Can't wait to see what happens y'all
for the next five to ten.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
We've gon do some stuff together too, because.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
You boy, I'm always down.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
We really came because I gonna work a Brandon, So like,
just let's let it is just.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
A strategic move, you know what, I'm trying to get
into TV. But no appreciate y'all, thanks for coming out,
and that's the pod.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Y'all we out, Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
You've been listening the Button Nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler. Got comment feedback? Want to be on the show.
Send us an email today at hello at butternomics dot com.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Butter Nomics is produced.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
In Atlanta, Georgia at iHeartMedia by Ksey Pegram, with marketing
support from Queen and Nikki.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Music provided by mister Hanky.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
If you haven't already, hit that subscribe button and never
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