September 9, 2025 ⢠44 mins
On this episode of Butternomics, our host, Brandon Butler, sits down with Terri Lee, President and CEO of Atlanta Housing, to explore what the future of affordable housing looks like in one of America’s fastest-growing cities. They discuss the challenges of rising rents, the opportunities in public-private partnerships, and how housing serves as the foundation for thriving communities. Terri shares her vision for equity, innovation, and sustainability in building homes that truly open doors for Atlanta families.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What I learned by watching my aunt is you have
to leave by example, and so you can't expect someone
to do what you're not willing to do. And you
can't ask someone to quite honestly lead if you're not leading.
And so, you know, I think it's important to understand
the first aspect of managing people is understand how you
manage yourself and understand what example you're setting forth and
(00:22):
how you're leading. Because leaders are always being watched, and
so when people are watching, what do you really want
them to see?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Everybody, Welcome to another episode of butteron Nomics. I'm your host,
Brandon Butler found the CEO of butteryt yelling. Today got
somebody special in the building. Indeed, we got the one
and only Miss Terry em Lee. You got to say
the whole thing like a child called quest.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So it's Terry Michelle Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, Terry Michelle, I don't want to put all your
business out there there. We got Miss Terry Michelle Lee. Terry,
how you doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I am phenomenal. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to
be here with you brand.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you absolutely so. For those who don't know, Terry
is the CEO of the Atlanta Housing Authority do amazing
work around the city. We're gonna get into that and
all the other stuff that touching on. But Terry, we
do something special here on button nomics. Okay. Now, normally
it's like tell us about yourself and all this kind
of stuff. But what I like to do is I
like to ask chat Chept to write a bio for
my guests. So I'm gonna read you at chat chibt
(01:21):
set about you and I want you to tell me
is it off? Is it missing something? Do we need
to go make some phone calls because you know it
came back with some good stuff. Here. You ready for this?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm ready?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Okay. Miss Terry em Lee the m stance for Michelle.
Miss Terry Emlee is the President and CEO of Atlanta
House and the largest housing authority in Georgia and one
of the most influential in the country. She has spent
more than two decades shaping housing policy and development in Atlanta,
serving under four mayors before stepping into the top road
Atlanta Housing. Known for her focus on both people and policy,
(01:51):
Terry has overseen efforts to expand affordable housing, redevelop former
public housing sites and create pathways for economic mobility for
thousands of Atlanta residents. Her leadership blends business discipline with
the commitment to culture and community, rooted in the belief
that housing is not just about buildings, but about shaping
opportunity and legacy in the city. Wow, that's what chat
said about you.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That is phenomenal. But now it left out one important factor. Okay,
that I am from Gramma, Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'm the youngest of three and when I tell you that,
I am so proud to be from Gramler because it
literally sets the foundation for the work that I do
today and it built me into the person I am now.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Absolutely So for people don't know, can you tell us about, like,
explain what Atlanta Housing does?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh wow? So Atlanta Housing is the public housing authority
for the city of Atlanta. And really what that means
is we are directly responsible for providing housing resources to
folks who need it the most. And so when you
think about the housing authority, most people literally just go
to traditional Section eight Section eight families. Well, we're so
much more than that. Yes, of course, we provide rental
(02:58):
assistance for our families to be able to rent homes
here in the city, but we also incentivize the private
market to provide affordable housing by providing operating subsidy on
an annual basis, as well as we're leading the redevelopment
of some of the most popular form of public housing
sites here in the city. So bottom line, we're here
to do housing, but we have the opportunity to do
(03:19):
so much more. We are literally intentional about making sure
that we focus on our families. So if you think
about think about it, we have the ability to touch
over forty three thousand people a year. That's forty three
thousand people a year. That's my seniors, that's disabled individuals,
working families, as well as our youth and children. And
so if we're helping to make sure that they have
(03:39):
the foundation of a home, how do we take that
to the next level to ensure that we can create
an economic generational factor for our families so they do
not have to rely on public public assistance long term.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Okay, now, when it comes to public housing and housing authorities,
I'm sure there are certain stereotypes people might have. We
talked about like Section eight or like low income housing
as air the grow up here in Atlanta. You know,
I remember a little Vietnam East Lake Meadows and going homes.
I had friends and family over there. Actually, the church
I used to go to is right down the street
from there. I remember having to go to Eastlake Meadows.
My dad ran the tutor program and we literally used
(04:15):
to have to have a police escort take us in
a church van to go pick up the kids and
drop them off. So I've seen that whole area change
over the decades that I've been here. It's a lot
of stuff, but just people, I'm sure have a lot
of like perceptions, like how do you all address some
of these stereotypes and help change that perception around what
housing authority does and what public house and all that
stuff means.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, so we change it by just meeting it, you know,
face first. Right. One of the things that we really
really really focus on is getting our story out there
because it's so easy to talk about the families you
think we serve, versus understanding the families we actually serve,
and so we are very intentional about storytelling. We're very
intentional by making sure that we put a face to
(04:54):
the family so it's not just a number, but you
understand that this is the individual that we're working with.
This is the family we're working with, and more importantly,
they actually work. And so our families are not sitting
at home. Our families are not waiting for just a handout,
but they're actually looking for a hand up to take
them to the next level of the trajectory.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Absolutely, What's something about the families and the residents that
you all serve and support that maybe people wouldn't expect
to realize.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So one, and I'm reflecting on a conversation that I
had with one of our former residents a couple of
years back. We were at headquarters and we were holding
a seminar to talk about the future redevelopment plans for
them bowing homes, and Bowing homes actually is under construction
(05:40):
right now. And the first question she asked me was
a bunch of folks asked me questions, but she didn't.
She didn't ask a question in front of the crowd.
She waited till we got into the hallway, and so
she said, you know, miss Lee or she asked, said
miss Terry, and I said, please call me Terry. She said,
are you really building a place for me to come
back to? Are you really building a place where we'll
(06:01):
be able to afford to come back to. And so
I think one of the first stereotypes is, you know,
people think that most of our former residents do not
want to come back to the former public housing sites,
and that's not true. People want to come back to
the neighborhoods that they called home for so many years.
The second stereotype would be that our residents are looking
for a handout. You know, I was in publics. I'll
(06:22):
never forget last September when when we had the storm,
and so I went to public So I'm from Louisiana.
So first thing my mama tells me is go get
some bread and milk. I still haven't quite und I'm
going to get my bread in mil If we know
the storm is coming, I'm going to get my bread.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I got to ask you a question about that, though,
we'll see, we will see how much you're I remember
my grandmas to say, get off the phone when it
was lightning. Okay, okay, all right, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Get off the phone. And now even taking a step further,
my mom like, I hope you're not on that laptop
right under outside. But but not our residents she stopped me.
She worked at the daily counter at publics and she
stopped me, and she was so proud to tell me that.
And she recognized me because I didn't have anything Atlanta
Housing on, but she recognized me, and she asked me
(07:11):
if I was Terry Lee, and I of course said yes.
She was so proud to let me know that she
was up for a promotion. Okay, so she wasn't trying
to hide the fact that she may have additional income
that would take her over the level of assistance of
the program. She was proud to say, Hey, you guys
gave me a hand up, and I am making I
am making a better place for my family. And so
(07:31):
it's just just the pride that our families have is
really really and the pride not just in being an
Atlanta Housing participant, but really the pride in making sure
that they're doing better for themselves and their family in
order to go to that next level.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, I mean again, you know, people need a place
of meaning, and you know housing is a is a
core benefit, it's a core need that people have and
just getting those situations is helpful too. So excuse me.
Once you have that, like you just love what is
said Masso's hierarchy of needs.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right, Like I was literally thinking about that. So I'm
a student of public administration, and so if you think
about the Maslow hierarchy of needs, safety shelters first, right, right,
And so I mean just in the pandemic, you know,
we were telling everybody to go home, So, well, what
happens to folks some folks who didn't have a home
or who didn't have a decent home with the resources
they need to be able to provide for their family.
(08:20):
And so if we can, if we can eliminate that
one barrier and make sure that people have a safe
place to live, an affordable place to live, imagine the
trajectory that we'll have for their children to come.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah. Now, you know, Atlanta obviously is known for a
lot of things, but you know, one of the biggest
things that we're known for in Atlanta is music and
hip hop, especially you know rap, and that's done a
lot for a lot of people, and a lot of
that stuff was a lot of that, you know, those
that music and those artists really came out of a
lot of those you know, those projects and those housing
projects and everything kind of growing up like reader perspective,
like what role in housing kind of play and helping
(08:55):
shape that part of Atlanta culture.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, I think I think it's just that the culture. Right.
Most of the rap artists were able to talk about
their experiences growing up in Bowen homes, growing up in Bankhead,
growing up in Herndon Eastlake, to your well, oh Vietnam,
to your point, but really being able to shape the
heart of the music and be able to speak about,
you know, the experiences they had, but not just the
(09:17):
experiences they had, but the desires that they had to
do better. When I think about Killer Mike, you know,
literally he has pretty much owns a great majority of
the West Side, and it comes from being really from
understanding where he came from, but also understanding the importance
of giving back, and so t I is another great
example of someone who grew up in Atlanta, grew up
(09:40):
in the projects, but also is now coming back making
sure they're pouring back into the community. So it won
shaped the experiences that they had then, but also changed
them to a different path as to how they want
to have empathy and giving back today.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah. Now, a lot of people I don't think fully
understand even the history of just housing and housing products
in general. I know a interesting fact that I learned
just over the years was that Atlanta was kind of
the original model for a lot of the housing projects,
and a lot of those original residents were white, middle
class and things have kind of changed. But just in general,
based on what you know in your position, like, what's
something about you know, the history of public housing in
(10:13):
Atlanta that people kind of get wrong or don't fully understand.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, so, and not just Atlanta the country, right, So
I argue sometimes, and argue is the right word with
a few of my colleagues across the country because they'll
say they were first where they were not first. Right.
They may have been first from the aspect of funding,
but they were not first to actually have public housing
in their city. And so Atlanta is not just a
(10:36):
home for affordable housing. We're the home of the public
housing movement. The first public housing for white people was
built right here in the city, and that's the old
Techwood Home was home. And but not at the same time,
because we were a segregated city, the first public housing
for black people was built right here in Atlanta across
maybe not even five blocks away, which was University homes
(10:58):
and university homes was right centered at they centered around
the auc Au Center. And so if you think about it,
public housing for both white and blacks, for right here
in this city and so Techwood homes, and it takes
you back to the regeneration of what not just public
housing looked like, but what housing looked like in general.
(11:19):
Because when public housing started to transition to more mixed income,
more mixed income housing, it started right here in Atlanta
too with Techwood homes, and Techwood Homes became Centennial Place,
and with Centennial Place, it gave Atlanta an opportunity to
one come in and clean up the stigma of public housing,
(11:39):
but also create an environment where our families could actually
be in communities with families that quite honestly had higher
economic means than they did, but most likely had the
same values. And so that is really important you think
about public housing when you think about the history the
public housing started here, that the transformation of public housing
(12:01):
started here. And now we're continuing the work that we're
doing and making sure we repopulate a lot of those
sites with mixed income communities that are catalytic to the
neighborhood transformation. Efface here in the city.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, it sounds like that housing story is almost like
a through line right to where it's connecting. As they say,
like old Atlanta kind of the new Atlanta. I don't
like the term new Atlanta that much. I just like
Atlanta now because I think we're all when Atlanta it
sounds very segregated in that sense for you say it
like that, but like, how do you think it kind
of just helps you know Atlanta's identity is a city
today when it comes to house yah.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So I think it's interesting when you say old Atlanta,
new Atlanta. So I've been in Atlanta now for about
twenty one years, and I think people are finally saying, Okay, Tierry,
you can say that you are Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You're good.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Thanks, You're good, thank you, because you know, it gets touchy.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It gets touching sometimes if you're not a great baby,
they get on.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
You exactly, exactly exactly, and I have on the graty
baby shirt, oh baby coach exactly. But one of the
things I remember first coming to Atlanta in two thousand
and four and a lady by the name Mclara Axom.
She was real and she would would be considered what
you call old Atlanta. But Clara was really generous with
(13:08):
me in sharing the history of Atlanta and sort of
how Atlanta and how Atlanta grew quite honestly, how our
communities grew kid within this city. And so when I
think about understanding where we're going today, I think you
have to take into consideration whether you want to call
it old Atlanta, regardless, you have to take into consideration
(13:28):
that Atlanta of the past, and you also have to
make sure that we build an Atlanta for the folks
who have labored and stayed in these communities have an
opportunity to continue to prosper in them.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Just in Joel, you know, one thing we always talk
about on Butter and butter Nomics is the idea of
like culture and what that ties back to you just
how to hear us, Like what is your definition of culture?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
So when I think of culture, I think of really
is is what our character is?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Is? What is our character? What are we representing? And
so you know, if I just take my agency, for example,
as a leader of Atlanta Housing, I'm focused on urgency,
I'm focused on empathy, I'm focused on accountability, and I'm
focused on transparency and so those values I attempt to
model throughout so that our agency as a whole will
model them, and then of course our employees will model
(14:28):
the same things. And so when I think of culture
for the city as a whole, you know, I think
it really is what character? What is our characteristic? What
character are we exhibiting that we want to become.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, one of my one of my favorite authors of
Seth Gold and his definition of culture that I've always
kind of embraced is people like us through things like this,
And so I was even I know, we were kind
of talking offline about just different things, and that's a
that to me is kind of Atlanta, right, Like we
kind of do certain things and people like us at
aliens Old Atlanta, New Atlanta, whatever you want to kind
of call it, right, Like, there are certain things we
kind of come around together and we say that's just
(15:00):
a part of Atlanta, Right. So that's how I've always
kind of looked at culture. But you know, y'all doing
an amazing work over there. But at the same time, Atlanta
housing is a business and you all have to kind
of balance that stuff out as well, Like what does
the business of Atlanta housing kind of look like behind
the scenes that people may not understand or fully realize.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It's a lot you know, as an agency if you
just think about think about who we are. So we
recently approved our board rather recently approved our upcoming budget
for this fisical year. And it's a little leaner than
it has been in past years, by eighty million dollars leaner.
But with that funding, we will provide rental assistance, will
(15:37):
provide operating assistance for existing rental developments, will provide funding
for development opportunities, will come in, and will provide consulting,
consulting and contractual opportunities for the private nonprofit sector to
really quite honestly help us with the business of the organization.
And then of course, you know, we have our staff
and so on a daily basis. And what I like
(15:58):
to tell people, it doesn't matter what your title is
at the agency. The question is what is your role
of responsibility helping us move the mission forward? And our
mission is to ensure that anyone who desires to call
Atlanta home have an opportunity to do so. So. In
doing that, that means I'm if I'm in procurement and
if I'm working on an offering If I have a
(16:20):
piece of paper and I don't move, I don't move
that piece of paper, then I'm hurting somebody possibly being
able to have the chance to call Atlanta home. And
so every little thing that we do from a business
enterprise aspect, all fees into it. Whether you're the fleet manager,
whether you are quite honestly over communications, whether you are,
(16:41):
you know, over procurement, whether you're working in residence services,
everything comes to the whole of making sure that we're
able to house our families and quite honestly trying to
have fun doing it. You know, the work that we
do is really hard, and I've been I've been blessed
Brandon to really work in this field for over thirty
years now. And I say blessed because any time you
have an opportunity to use your God given capacity to
(17:03):
help people, that's a blessing. But I also recognize that
it's very hard work and we're and we're quite honestly
are working against the market so many times, and so
anything that we can do to sort of lighten the
load and have fun while we're doing the heavy lifting,
it's something I like to encourage as well.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, now I've been I've been going through you all stuff,
been on the website, looking at everything, just learned about
the different programs recently. And one thing I want to
kind of double tap on for a second is you
talked about rental assistance and also y'all have down payment
assistance programs, and I think in general just for us,
especially as you know people in Atlanta, you know, the
black population Atlanta, just minority diverse populations, like home ownership
(17:41):
and those opportunities and kind of the cornerstone and building wealth.
Can you just share a little bit about, you know,
how people can access to those programs, what they require,
because I think a lot of people don't fully understand that,
you know, these services, these agencies exist and they might
not even fully realize they might qualify for them. So
can you maybe share a little bit of information about how
those work.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah? Absolutely, And so I'll start with the home ownership
program because I believe Atlanta Housing's home ownership program probably
is our best kept secret. And I can say that
because coming over to the agency probably a little over
five years ago, my first capacity as chief operating officer,
prior to becoming the CEO of the organization, I had
no idea how many families we were assisting on an
(18:20):
annual basis for housing for home ownership opportunities, No idea.
I mean it was literally a best kept secret. And
I can say that because at the city I was
the former chief Housing Officer and I was working directly
with all the agencies and literally Atlanta Housing was not
telling this story. And so on an annual basis, we
actually impact over two hundred individual or two hundred households
(18:42):
to have the potential to become home owners now. Because
the funding we're using as federal funding, we are capped
at a income limits, so basically you have to be
at eighty percent or below the median income. What that
means is for one person, one person household, you probably
have to make a little less than forty seven thousand
dollars a year to be able to qualify for our assistance.
We require any eligible participant to actually go through an
(19:04):
eight hour home buy a counseling program. We also require
them to work with one of our participating lenders. And
I believe our actual amount of downpayment assistance in a
person could qualify is between twenty thousand to twenty five
thousand dollars twenty thousand for just your average household twenty
five thousand dollars if it is a public safety employee,
(19:26):
because we also want to encourage our public safety employees
here to live here within the city. Maximum sales price
is a little under four hundred thousand dollars to be
able to utilize our assistance. Now, what we're finding though,
is in the market is that buyers, potential buyers rather
are having to layer assistance, and that basically means Brandon
that they'll have to utilize funding from Atlanta Houses program,
(19:50):
possibly invest Atlanta's program, and maybe even the state's program
in order to be able to afford to buy a home.
But we do, and we are very proud of the assistance.
So we're able to provide our families.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, you know, I don't think a lot of people
even fully understand that all these different programs out of
here not only exists, but they're accessible. You actually said
something I talk about a lot that I think is
very important, which is for public service employees also living
in certain communities. I think, especially in a city like Atlanta,
with the kind of population that we have, it is
really important, especially for people like police and like different
(20:22):
offices like that right to actually live in the communities
that they serve, because if not, again, like you know, lastly,
you wanted somebody living, you know, way up north, they
come down here, they do their work, and they take
all that stuff back. And so what impact have you've
seen from that actually having those people back in the
communities that they actually serve.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, I think it has some impact. I think it's
also important to note though, Atlanta from a household size
is probably about one point one point one and a
half persons for households, So Atlanta's household size is not
necessarily family households. And so when you think about that
from the standpoint, the question is where are families actually living,
And those families are living in the suburbs, and we
(20:59):
all know since possibly why. But what I am seeing
is that as we're repopulating and regenerating, regenerating some of
our former public housing sites, we're gaining more interest and
we're gaining more interest not just from public safety employees,
but quite honestly from families who want to know whether
or not they can come back to the city.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah. Yeah, for a lot of times, again, like people
have maybe seeing the city is I mean, obviously there's been,
you know, a big boom in browsing, and like a
lot of housing has become less affordable over time. Like
how do you all just tackle that gap in times
like this when it comes to help to serve your families.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, so it's you know, I remember being in a
room a couple of years back, and the gentleman was
a former he was a former deputy Secretary of HUD
under President Obama, and he had a map of the
United States on on the screen and he said, tell
me what city has solved the affordable housing crisis, And
so we started naming cities and he said, no city
has solved the affordable housing crisis. And it's actually getting worse,
(21:55):
and it's it's becoming a national crisis. And what we're
seeing now, Brandon, is it really is a global crisis
when it comes to the lack of affordability. And in
one of the conversations we often do not have when
we talk and I'll get to what we're doing, but
I think it's important to talk about the fact that
it is what housing costs versus what people make. And
(22:15):
if you think about Atlanta right now today, in Atlanta,
the national Low Income Housing Coalition released a report that
basically says, for a person to be able to afford
a two bedroom unit in Atlanta at fair market rent,
they would have to earn a housing wage, an hourly
wage of forty one dollars. Oh, forty one dollars now
minimum wage in the city, minimum wage in the state,
(22:38):
I'm sorry, it's seven dollars and twenty five cents. And
so that means a person would have to earn close
to six times the minimum wage to be able to
afford housing in this city. Okay, that's important because we
can't subsidize our way out of it. So when you
think about the public subsidy resources, we have to be
(22:59):
able to make a developed meant affordable, to be able
to help somebody pay their rent, to be able to
encourage someone to go to home ownership, those resources only
go so far. So while we're tackling the housing issue,
we also need to tackle the economic mobility issues in
order to ensure that people can earn a living wage
in order to be able to be able to afford
to have some place to stay. Now for us, for example,
(23:21):
if you think about the Bow and Homes project that
we're doing now with seventy four acre site along Hollow Well,
that's about a seven hundred and sixty million dollar redevelopment
on When it's all said and done, we'll repopulate the
site with over two thousand units of housing that'll be
both rental as well as homeownership. By the thirty five
to forty percent affordability on that site, we were able
to receive a grant from HUT of about forty million
(23:44):
dollars and we're using around seventy million of our own
subsidy resources to come in to make that development opportunity
affordable for people to come back. And so what happens
is any to affordable housing project, what you'll find is
you'll have private find nancy and possibly owners equity. But
what makes it affordable is the public subsidy gap that
(24:05):
we're able to come into field.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I had We had Milton Little
from the United Whale here one time, and he and
I had a whole conversation about just I think Atlanta's
like what like ninety or ninety percent and upper mobility.
So essentially, if you essentially born in low poverty, there's
almost a ninety ninety five percent chance you'll kind of
state in yeah, and so again it's really important these
kind of programs exist, right.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But that's why it's also important that for the families
that we serve, that we're able to equip them from
the economic standpoint to transition off the program, because if
you think about it, we serve I told you we
touched about forty three thousand people, that really constitutes about
twenty a little over twenty five thousand households. If we
serve the same twenty five thousand households year after year,
(24:47):
then we're not able to help in that trajectory of
moving people off of that alone, that economic clime. So
one of the things that we've started just this last
year is what we call the resident renaissance, and that's
how you know, we went back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Shelter is that first component, but after shelter, what's next.
(25:08):
And so if we can make sure our residents have
access to different educational opportunities, different workforce developing opportunities that
will that will give them the ability to earn a
higher wage, it also helps them be able to stand
on their own two feet and be able to move
from our program to a level of self sufficiency though,
so that we can reach back and help the next family. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Absolutely, now and when you think about that too, right,
I mean you kind of mentioned it a second ago,
like some federal funding is obviously been cut and things
are changing. I know it's a little a little tough
out there trying to manage all that stuff, but in general,
with all the different rules and regulations, you all have
to kind of work through how do you all balance
that but still kind of stay innovative and finding ways
to serve these families.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So you have to, you just absolutely have to. So
one of the things I will tell you, I'm a
firm believer in understanding the rules. And I say understanding
the rules because there's always there's always a path to yes.
And so we start off with what is how do
we get to a yes? And so understanding the rules
and the rules continue to change, but making sure that
(26:09):
we stay on top of that. Understanding what the rules
and regulations are and how we utilize them to help
benefit our families, but also how we make sure our
families understand the rules and regulations. So it's not just
you know, big Ah coming up with we want to penalize. No,
we don't want to penalize anyone, but we do want
to make sure that we uphold the requirements we have
(26:29):
to uphold to continue to maintain some of the precious
resources we have. But when you think about innovation, what
I like to define innovation as being willing to take
a risk and try something different. And in the time
that we're in, especially from a housing affordability crisis, we
don't have a choice but to be innovative. We don't
have a choice but to understand what are the different
(26:50):
construction types out there that can help us not even
not just build housing cheaper, but also build it faster. Right?
What other program opportunities can we create? You know, if
we want to partner with a good Will, for example,
and create a specialized workforce development program for our residents
around Goodwill, what does that look like to get our
residents trained in clean energy because we know those jobs
(27:12):
are paying a way to forty dollars an hour plus, right,
So how do we start thinking in that manner? In
order to do so, how do we encourage the private
sector to assist us in creating some type of housing
subsidy program so that as we graduate our families off
of public assistance, they still have a window of maybe
six to nine months where they have assistance while we're
(27:33):
helping them stabilize financially. Those are the type of things
that we should be doing.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, and I love the way you talk about like
partnerships and all the people that are kind of involved,
because I'm sure there are some people that think affordable
housing means cheap or means like that. But you all
are working with developers in the city and you know
all these different different groups culture leaders to help make
sure these things are affordable. Like, like, what's the goal
when you all kind of start planning a project to
make sure that it kind of checks all the boxes.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
We want a project to be somewhere where we will
to live first and foremost. Right years, my very first
boss out of grad school told me that he said,
guy by name of Willie Horton when I was in Jackson, Mississippi,
he said, never expect a family to live somewhere we
wouldn't live. And so we start off with that main
goal of what, you know, what do people actually want?
(28:21):
And not planning for people, but planning with people to
understand exactly what type of product would they like to
see what type of housing would they like to have understanding,
and this is not the end user who would actually
live within the community, but also the neighborhood. How do
we work with the neighborhood to make sure that we're
being catalytic to the neighborhood and not damaging to the neighborhood,
(28:44):
And so really just having a pulse on the ground,
you know, making sure that we listen to what the
concerns are, listen to what the need is, and then
work collaboratively with our neighborhood, with our development partners, with
the city, with other public sector agencies as well as
the private sector to make sure that we build a
community that people can now only call home, but will
(29:05):
be value add to the neighborhood, which will reside in.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
One of the questions I love to ask people when
they come on at you know, your level, the CEO level,
the president level, is how do you get there? Because
I think a lot of times you can it's easy
to connect the dots looking backwards, but I think, you
know a lot of people talk about want to be
a CEO or a leader. You know. It was funny
I had doctor Kevin James on the president of Morris
Brown and I asked him, I said, how do you
become the president of a college? And his answer was, man,
(29:41):
one day, I was watching the news and I saw
that Morris Brown didn't have a college, I didn't have
a president some stuff that obviously happened up there, and
so I did some research and I literally sent a
cold email and then I called them and then we
had a conversation in months later. He's like, I'm the president,
but I'm oversimplifying it. But like, you know, nobody really
understands that. So I love to ask people who are
(30:01):
CEOs and at your level, right, like, how does somebody
even get to that type of role. I know you
mentioned before that you've been the COEO there and you've
done some work, but just help people understand and kind
of connect the dots on how you actually ended up
in this role.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
You no, absolutely, and so you know I started off
by telling you that it's a blessing to do this work.
And there's a scripture that I that I refer to often,
and this Romans eight twenty eight, and it literally says
all things work to the good of those who love
the Lord and will called according to his purpose. And
when I think about the trajectory of my career, I
will tell you it literally has. It literally has been
(30:35):
that I've been blessed to be in this field for
over thirty years. Literally have not been in any other
field other than community and economic development from the time
I graduated from college, and so it has been a calling,
holding different roles in different cities, but it literally, Brandon
has been a calling for me. And I've been able
(30:56):
to use the capacity to understanding I have from a
housing standpoint to be able to help people. And I've
had some wonderful mentors. And I didn't even understand because
you know early in my career that they were mentors,
but the first African American mayor for the city of Jackson, Mississippi,
was one of my mentors. While I was in graduate school,
I actually had the opportunity to labor and it was
(31:17):
labor at a nonprofit organization titled Misissippi Institute for Small
Towns and Harvey Johnson is his name, and Harvey actually
led a nonprofit organization that provided not just housing assistance
to families that were on the coast of Mississippi or
in the Delta Mississippi but also public facilities, wastewater improvements,
(31:39):
working with city plans and so watching Harvey and having
an opportunity, you know, at the age of twenty to
literally see that work gave me the inspiration to really
want to dig deep into this field. And you know,
my career has been a trajectory of roles. But what
has been consistent in that to direct their roles, whether
(32:01):
it was Director of Housing and Jackson Directive of Housing
here in Atlanta, Deputy Commission of City Planning in Atlanta,
the chief first chief Housing officer in this state, as
well as in the City of Atlanta. What has been
consistent is the fact that I have been able to
really use my ability to bring people together to have
(32:23):
the hard conversations to come with with solutions as to
how we can help our families have a different way
of life. And so, you know, when I think about
my career and being the CEO of Atlanta Housing, I
literally think about it. Clearly, I didn't know at twenty
I was gonna be a year of Atlanta Housing. But
what I will say is that the latter I have
(32:44):
been on has prepared me, both good and bad, have
prepared me for the path that I'm at today.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was actually having a
conversation with my daughter. My daughter's thirteen, and we were
just talking last night about her getting I was like,
you need to get a summer job this summer. You know.
We kind of joke around because she said she wanted
to be a counselor at this camp. But then she
was like, you know, I don't really want to have to,
you know, manage the kids and manage people. I said, well, look,
here's the thing. If you want to be a leader,
manage it. And that is kind of part of the role,
(33:11):
Like you can't really avoid that. So, you know, the
more practice you can get in doing it, especially you
know when little risk situations, you know what I mean,
like lips out.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
But it's so much more to managing people, right, And
so I think about when I was thirteen, I actually
worked at the newspaper, the Resting Daily Leader. My aunt
worked at the newspaper, so during the summertime she would
bring us in to help roll papers as well and
then also deliver them. And what I learned by watching
my aunt is you have to lead by example, and
(33:39):
so you can't expect someone to do what you're not
willing to do. And you can't ask someone to quite
honestly lead if you're not leading. And so, you know,
I think it's important to understand the first aspect of
managing people is understand how you manage yourself and understand
what example, what example you're setting forth, and how you're
(33:59):
leading because leaders are always being watched, even when you
think you're not, you are being watched. And so when
people are watching, what do you really want them to see?
And for me, I want them to see. I want
them to see the same thing that I see when
I look in the mirror. I want them to see
someone who is desiring to be transparent, someone who is
desiring to be accountable, and someone who is desiring to
(34:21):
be inclusive of the work that we're doing.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
What is this role taught you about leadership that no
other role has taught you.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So we're gonna be here another two hours.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
You know, we got time you keep it going. We
get testing all batteries all day.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah. I think the most important, the important thing I've
learned about this role goes beyond the work. It really
leans into the power of influence and inspiration. In order
to influence and inspire people to follow you, because you
(34:59):
can have a title all day, loan, but you're not
a leader unless somebody's following you. And so really being
able to be aware of that, but also being aware
that I'm not the CEO just of Atlanta Housing. I'm
the CEO for every employee that comes in that building.
And so you know, I can't I can't have favorites, right,
(35:19):
I can't, you know, make decisions based upon personalities. I
have to make decisions. I have to lead the organization
based upon the organizational mission and creating the right cultural
environment for the employees that serve serve us on a
daily basis. And we have some excellent team members that
serve on a daily basis and so it's it is
(35:39):
my responsibility to lead them with integrity.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's an interesting challenge. You
have to kind of manage, you know, the mission against
some of the potential titles and egos, and that's just
people in general, right like that, you know, like my
mom always told me, people gonna do what people gonna do.
But like at the end of the day, you have
to kind of like figure out how to manage that
and get the best out of your team.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
And that's right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You know, That's something I always kind of tell my
team is like, look, I know you can do a
lot of things, but the one thing I need you
to do is just through the thing that only you
can do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
But you know, on that ego thing, I'm a firm
believer our brand has to be bigger than our ego.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Right, you know, we could have an ego all day long,
but that ego is not going to move the needle
on the work that needs to be done. It's not
going to move the needle on the growth that we
need to experience, not just as an agency, but even
as individual contributors. Right, And so the question is what
is our brand? What are we collectively hoping to accomplish,
what are we collectively moving towards? And how do we
(36:35):
do it together? Now, everybody may not be happy every day, right,
you know, nine times I can people will not be
happy every day. But that's where I have to, you know,
do my best and use my best judgment to make
the best decisions I can for the organization as well
as for the individuals that quite honestly serve the organization
and the families We serve and there oftentimes I have
(36:58):
to move my ego eut of the way to make
sure that my ego doesn't get in the way in
making it and quite honestly serving as an example for
moving that mission forward.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, how do you see kind of the younger generation,
you know, especially in Atlanta, the creatives, the influencers, like
all these people that are you know, really figuring out,
you know, where they're going to, what they're going to be,
and what they're going to do in Atlanta, Like, how
do you see them helping to help solve these housing
issues that we're facing.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh, my god, when you talk about innovation, that's where
the innovation is right one. The desire that I see,
the desire, the desire to be a part of the
solution that I see from the creative class is phenomenal
and so really being able to harness that energy to
help us have these conversations, but also they have they
(37:41):
have their ear to the ground and they're hearing things
that we may not hear. So how do we take
the knowledge and experience we have along with some of
the innovative and creative ideas, but also the things that
they are hearing on the ground. And use them to
collectively come together to make different solutions. One of the
things I remember when I first started started this particular
(38:02):
role as CEO, was someone from the culture, from the
creative class rather basically said hey, you know, to your point,
we don't really know what Atlanta houses supposed to do, right.
We know that it was you know, public housing. All
the public housing was demolished and now it's just a
lot of vacant land. What are you going to do different?
I said, well, I'm a build on it. Okay, I'm
(38:23):
a build on it. And if you know something else
that I should be doing, tell me, because we're you know,
we're not closed. Our ears are not closed to understanding
what people want to hear, different ideas that people have.
Matter of fact, we did that most recently on our
bank Head site. You know bank Head, that area is
becoming mostly industrial, and so what we wanted to do
(38:43):
was basically understand what did the community want to see,
what did the creative class want to see, what did
the business community want to see. On that particular site,
we had over forty offerings of different concepts and ideas
as to how we should move forward with the redevelopment.
That site from housing to quite honestly, another good will center,
to an industrial plaza to a commercial plaza. It was
(39:04):
just all types of ideas.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, and you get that into sight and actually going
and talking to people. It's very easy to kind of
just sit back and you know, sitting in the office
and just kind of assume. But it sounds like you
all are actually really being intentional about getting out there
and talking to the people and ask them what they want.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
We have to we have to. Atlanta deserves that. Yeah,
you know what I mean, Atlanta, and quite honestly, Atlanta
demands it. It just deserves it, but Atlanta demands it.
And it's the only way as an authority, as an agency,
that we'll be able to continue, quite honestly, having the
impactful role that we have with this community is making
(39:40):
sure that we listen to the community that we're hoping
to be a part of.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, you said that in the beginning of this that
you know, you've been Atlanta over twenty years. Just how
is your view and experience of the city kind of
changed over those years versus you know, twenty years ago,
Terry to you know, twenty twenty five, Terry.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
So recently I'm laughing because I've reflected on that I
had an accident back in May that that caused me
to slow down a little bit, and in slowing down,
it also caused me to reflect on my own journey
here in Atlanta, and and reflected on that journey I
didn't always have all. You know, it wasn't a reflection
(40:19):
a positive reflection over everything, but what it was was
an impact for reflection. And I will tell you the
twenty years, the twenty or so years that I've spent
in this city have made me who I am today.
And so the T shirt I have on is that
life is just better in Atlanta. And I will tell
you life has been good for me in Atlanta because
it literally grew me, grew me to the person that
(40:40):
I am today. And as I reflect on the opportunities
that I've been given here, I reflect on the fact
that we I have had an opportunity to be a
part of footprint that will help to make this city
the place that is desired and become an affordable, desire
marable city that anyone who desires to call Atlanta home
(41:03):
can do.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So. Do you remember what the song was playing in
your car when you came to Atlanta twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I Do I Do It was It was a gospel song, actually,
Kirk Franklin, My life is in your hands. And at
that time I was in a gold four door hundred Civic.
I mean Hunter of Cord missed my Hunter chord too,
but I was in a gold Hunter Accord and I
was literally an I twenty right at six Flags exit
(41:32):
and it was on the chorus and you could see
the right there at that exit, you could see the
skyline of the city. It's a beautiful skyline. And at
that moment, you know, because prior to coming to Atlanta,
I was in Jackson, Mississippi, and I had been there
for graduate school and the start of my career. At
that moment, I felt a little intimidated as I was
on I twenty by six Flags looking at the city skyline.
(41:55):
But the chorus of the song was I know that
I can make it. I know that I can stand
no matter what may come my way. My life is
in your hands. And that has proven to be true
for me throughout my journey personal professional in Atlanta. My
life has always been in his hands, and you know,
and so yes, life is just better in Atlanta and
(42:18):
it's been it's been a good.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Journey, absolutely, and well, look we're getting ready to wrap
this up, but I just want to ask for we
get out of here. We talk about people talk about
legacy all the time and what they want to leave behind,
Like what impact do you hope that you know your
time at Atlanta Housing leaves on Atlanta that.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
We understood that it was more than just about building housing,
but it was also about building people and families, and
we were intentional. Every action we took had a footprint
to make sure our neighborhoods were better, but also that
the people that we had the opportunity to serve were
better for our lead because of our leadership.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Absolutely. Well, look, Terry, this has been a great conversation.
I appreciate you pulling up. Before we get out of here,
please tell people how they can and get more information
about Atlanta Housing, how they can learn about the different programs.
It's give them all the things.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Absolutely, So first and foremost, follow us on social media.
We're on Instagram, We're actually on Facebook as well as
LinkedIn at Atlanta Housing. And then please please please go
to our website www. Atlanta Housing dot org sign up
We have a section on our website where you can
sign up to receive our newsletter at Newsletters, as well
(43:26):
as any information about the organization, and we want you
to follow us. We want you to be a part
of the work that we're doing, and quite honestly, we
want to hear from you. We want to hear the
good stories. We also want to hear the not so
good stories, but we want to hear anything that we
can do to become better in this city.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Absolutely well, Miss Terry Mlida m Sands from Michelle, y'all
don't forget it, but thank you so much for pulling
up for button Nomics. We appreciate all the amazing work
that y'all are do in Atlanta housing to make sure
that people have opportunities out here. It is much needed,
and you know, we hope that people take advantage of learned,
take advantage the programs that learn some of this conversations.
Thank you so much for coming out.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
No, Brandon, thank you, I really appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Thank you absolutely. With that said, y'all, that's the pod
we out. You've been listening to Button Nomics and I'm
your hosts. Brandon Butler got comments feedback. Want to be
on the show, Send us an email today at Hello
at butternomics dot com. Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta,
Georgia at iHeartMedia by Ksey Pegram, with marketing support from
Queen and Nikki. Music provided by mister Hanky. If you
(44:25):
haven't already, hit that subscribe button and never missed an episode,
and be sure to follow us on all our social
platforms at butter dot atl Listen to button Nomics on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What I learned by watching my aunt is you have
to leave by example, and so you can't expect someone
to do what you're not willing to do. And you
can't ask someone to quite honestly lead if you're not leading.
And so, you know, I think it's important to understand
the first aspect of managing people is understand how you
manage yourself and understand what example you're setting forth and
(00:22):
how you're leading. Because leaders are always being watched, and
so when people are watching, what do you really want
them to see?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Everybody, Welcome to another episode of butteron Nomics. I'm your host,
Brandon Butler found the CEO of butteryt yelling. Today got
somebody special in the building. Indeed, we got the one
and only Miss Terry em Lee. You got to say
the whole thing like a child called quest.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So it's Terry Michelle Lee.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Okay, Terry Michelle, I don't want to put all your
business out there there. We got Miss Terry Michelle Lee. Terry,
how you doing today?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I am phenomenal. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to
be here with you brand.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you absolutely so. For those who don't know, Terry
is the CEO of the Atlanta Housing Authority do amazing
work around the city. We're gonna get into that and
all the other stuff that touching on. But Terry, we
do something special here on button nomics. Okay. Now, normally
it's like tell us about yourself and all this kind
of stuff. But what I like to do is I
like to ask chat Chept to write a bio for
my guests. So I'm gonna read you at chat chibt
(01:21):
set about you and I want you to tell me
is it off? Is it missing something? Do we need
to go make some phone calls because you know it
came back with some good stuff. Here. You ready for this?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm ready?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Okay. Miss Terry em Lee the m stance for Michelle.
Miss Terry Emlee is the President and CEO of Atlanta
House and the largest housing authority in Georgia and one
of the most influential in the country. She has spent
more than two decades shaping housing policy and development in Atlanta,
serving under four mayors before stepping into the top road
Atlanta Housing. Known for her focus on both people and policy,
(01:51):
Terry has overseen efforts to expand affordable housing, redevelop former
public housing sites and create pathways for economic mobility for
thousands of Atlanta residents. Her leadership blends business discipline with
the commitment to culture and community, rooted in the belief
that housing is not just about buildings, but about shaping
opportunity and legacy in the city. Wow, that's what chat
said about you.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That is phenomenal. But now it left out one important factor. Okay,
that I am from Gramma, Louisiana.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
There we go.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'm the youngest of three and when I tell you that,
I am so proud to be from Gramler because it
literally sets the foundation for the work that I do
today and it built me into the person I am now.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Absolutely So for people don't know, can you tell us about, like,
explain what Atlanta Housing does?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh wow? So Atlanta Housing is the public housing authority
for the city of Atlanta. And really what that means
is we are directly responsible for providing housing resources to
folks who need it the most. And so when you
think about the housing authority, most people literally just go
to traditional Section eight Section eight families. Well, we're so
much more than that. Yes, of course, we provide rental
(02:58):
assistance for our families to be able to rent homes
here in the city, but we also incentivize the private
market to provide affordable housing by providing operating subsidy on
an annual basis, as well as we're leading the redevelopment
of some of the most popular form of public housing
sites here in the city. So bottom line, we're here
to do housing, but we have the opportunity to do
(03:19):
so much more. We are literally intentional about making sure
that we focus on our families. So if you think
about think about it, we have the ability to touch
over forty three thousand people a year. That's forty three
thousand people a year. That's my seniors, that's disabled individuals,
working families, as well as our youth and children. And
so if we're helping to make sure that they have
(03:39):
the foundation of a home, how do we take that
to the next level to ensure that we can create
an economic generational factor for our families so they do
not have to rely on public public assistance long term.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Okay, now, when it comes to public housing and housing authorities,
I'm sure there are certain stereotypes people might have. We
talked about like Section eight or like low income housing
as air the grow up here in Atlanta. You know,
I remember a little Vietnam East Lake Meadows and going homes.
I had friends and family over there. Actually, the church
I used to go to is right down the street
from there. I remember having to go to Eastlake Meadows.
My dad ran the tutor program and we literally used
(04:15):
to have to have a police escort take us in
a church van to go pick up the kids and
drop them off. So I've seen that whole area change
over the decades that I've been here. It's a lot
of stuff, but just people, I'm sure have a lot
of like perceptions, like how do you all address some
of these stereotypes and help change that perception around what
housing authority does and what public house and all that
stuff means.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, so we change it by just meeting it, you know,
face first. Right. One of the things that we really
really really focus on is getting our story out there
because it's so easy to talk about the families you
think we serve, versus understanding the families we actually serve,
and so we are very intentional about storytelling. We're very
intentional by making sure that we put a face to
(04:54):
the family so it's not just a number, but you
understand that this is the individual that we're working with.
This is the family we're working with, and more importantly,
they actually work. And so our families are not sitting
at home. Our families are not waiting for just a handout,
but they're actually looking for a hand up to take
them to the next level of the trajectory.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Absolutely, What's something about the families and the residents that
you all serve and support that maybe people wouldn't expect
to realize.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So one, and I'm reflecting on a conversation that I
had with one of our former residents a couple of
years back. We were at headquarters and we were holding
a seminar to talk about the future redevelopment plans for
them bowing homes, and Bowing homes actually is under construction
(05:40):
right now. And the first question she asked me was
a bunch of folks asked me questions, but she didn't.
She didn't ask a question in front of the crowd.
She waited till we got into the hallway, and so
she said, you know, miss Lee or she asked, said
miss Terry, and I said, please call me Terry. She said,
are you really building a place for me to come
back to? Are you really building a place where we'll
(06:01):
be able to afford to come back to. And so
I think one of the first stereotypes is, you know,
people think that most of our former residents do not
want to come back to the former public housing sites,
and that's not true. People want to come back to
the neighborhoods that they called home for so many years.
The second stereotype would be that our residents are looking
for a handout. You know, I was in publics. I'll
(06:22):
never forget last September when when we had the storm,
and so I went to public So I'm from Louisiana.
So first thing my mama tells me is go get
some bread and milk. I still haven't quite und I'm
going to get my bread in mil If we know
the storm is coming, I'm going to get my bread.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I got to ask you a question about that, though,
we'll see, we will see how much you're I remember
my grandmas to say, get off the phone when it
was lightning. Okay, okay, all right, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Get off the phone. And now even taking a step further,
my mom like, I hope you're not on that laptop
right under outside. But but not our residents she stopped me.
She worked at the daily counter at publics and she
stopped me, and she was so proud to tell me that.
And she recognized me because I didn't have anything Atlanta
Housing on, but she recognized me, and she asked me
(07:11):
if I was Terry Lee, and I of course said yes.
She was so proud to let me know that she
was up for a promotion. Okay, so she wasn't trying
to hide the fact that she may have additional income
that would take her over the level of assistance of
the program. She was proud to say, Hey, you guys
gave me a hand up, and I am making I
am making a better place for my family. And so
(07:31):
it's just just the pride that our families have is
really really and the pride not just in being an
Atlanta Housing participant, but really the pride in making sure
that they're doing better for themselves and their family in
order to go to that next level.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, I mean again, you know, people need a place
of meaning, and you know housing is a is a
core benefit, it's a core need that people have and
just getting those situations is helpful too. So excuse me.
Once you have that, like you just love what is
said Masso's hierarchy of needs.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Right, Like I was literally thinking about that. So I'm
a student of public administration, and so if you think
about the Maslow hierarchy of needs, safety shelters first, right, right,
And so I mean just in the pandemic, you know,
we were telling everybody to go home, So, well, what
happens to folks some folks who didn't have a home
or who didn't have a decent home with the resources
they need to be able to provide for their family.
(08:20):
And so if we can, if we can eliminate that
one barrier and make sure that people have a safe
place to live, an affordable place to live, imagine the
trajectory that we'll have for their children to come.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah. Now, you know, Atlanta obviously is known for a
lot of things, but you know, one of the biggest
things that we're known for in Atlanta is music and
hip hop, especially you know rap, and that's done a
lot for a lot of people, and a lot of
that stuff was a lot of that, you know, those
that music and those artists really came out of a
lot of those you know, those projects and those housing
projects and everything kind of growing up like reader perspective,
like what role in housing kind of play and helping
(08:55):
shape that part of Atlanta culture.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, I think I think it's just that the culture. Right.
Most of the rap artists were able to talk about
their experiences growing up in Bowen homes, growing up in Bankhead,
growing up in Herndon Eastlake, to your well, oh Vietnam,
to your point, but really being able to shape the
heart of the music and be able to speak about,
you know, the experiences they had, but not just the
(09:17):
experiences they had, but the desires that they had to
do better. When I think about Killer Mike, you know,
literally he has pretty much owns a great majority of
the West Side, and it comes from being really from
understanding where he came from, but also understanding the importance
of giving back, and so t I is another great
example of someone who grew up in Atlanta, grew up
(09:40):
in the projects, but also is now coming back making
sure they're pouring back into the community. So it won
shaped the experiences that they had then, but also changed
them to a different path as to how they want
to have empathy and giving back today.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah. Now, a lot of people I don't think fully
understand even the history of just housing and housing products
in general. I know a interesting fact that I learned
just over the years was that Atlanta was kind of
the original model for a lot of the housing projects,
and a lot of those original residents were white, middle
class and things have kind of changed. But just in general,
based on what you know in your position, like, what's
something about you know, the history of public housing in
(10:13):
Atlanta that people kind of get wrong or don't fully understand.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, so, and not just Atlanta the country, right, So
I argue sometimes, and argue is the right word with
a few of my colleagues across the country because they'll
say they were first where they were not first. Right.
They may have been first from the aspect of funding,
but they were not first to actually have public housing
in their city. And so Atlanta is not just a
(10:36):
home for affordable housing. We're the home of the public
housing movement. The first public housing for white people was
built right here in the city, and that's the old
Techwood Home was home. And but not at the same time,
because we were a segregated city, the first public housing
for black people was built right here in Atlanta across
maybe not even five blocks away, which was University homes
(10:58):
and university homes was right centered at they centered around
the auc Au Center. And so if you think about it,
public housing for both white and blacks, for right here
in this city and so Techwood homes, and it takes
you back to the regeneration of what not just public
housing looked like, but what housing looked like in general.
(11:19):
Because when public housing started to transition to more mixed income,
more mixed income housing, it started right here in Atlanta
too with Techwood homes, and Techwood Homes became Centennial Place,
and with Centennial Place, it gave Atlanta an opportunity to
one come in and clean up the stigma of public housing,
(11:39):
but also create an environment where our families could actually
be in communities with families that quite honestly had higher
economic means than they did, but most likely had the
same values. And so that is really important you think
about public housing when you think about the history the
public housing started here, that the transformation of public housing
(12:01):
started here. And now we're continuing the work that we're
doing and making sure we repopulate a lot of those
sites with mixed income communities that are catalytic to the
neighborhood transformation. Efface here in the city.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, it sounds like that housing story is almost like
a through line right to where it's connecting. As they say,
like old Atlanta kind of the new Atlanta. I don't
like the term new Atlanta that much. I just like
Atlanta now because I think we're all when Atlanta it
sounds very segregated in that sense for you say it
like that, but like, how do you think it kind
of just helps you know Atlanta's identity is a city
today when it comes to house yah.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So I think it's interesting when you say old Atlanta,
new Atlanta. So I've been in Atlanta now for about
twenty one years, and I think people are finally saying, Okay, Tierry,
you can say that you are Atlanta.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You're good.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Thanks, You're good, thank you, because you know, it gets touchy.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
It gets touching sometimes if you're not a great baby,
they get on.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
You exactly, exactly exactly, and I have on the graty
baby shirt, oh baby coach exactly. But one of the
things I remember first coming to Atlanta in two thousand
and four and a lady by the name Mclara Axom.
She was real and she would would be considered what
you call old Atlanta. But Clara was really generous with
(13:08):
me in sharing the history of Atlanta and sort of
how Atlanta and how Atlanta grew quite honestly, how our
communities grew kid within this city. And so when I
think about understanding where we're going today, I think you
have to take into consideration whether you want to call
it old Atlanta, regardless, you have to take into consideration
(13:28):
that Atlanta of the past, and you also have to
make sure that we build an Atlanta for the folks
who have labored and stayed in these communities have an
opportunity to continue to prosper in them.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Just in Joel, you know, one thing we always talk
about on Butter and butter Nomics is the idea of
like culture and what that ties back to you just
how to hear us, Like what is your definition of culture?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
So when I think of culture, I think of really
is is what our character is?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Is? What is our character? What are we representing? And
so you know, if I just take my agency, for example,
as a leader of Atlanta Housing, I'm focused on urgency,
I'm focused on empathy, I'm focused on accountability, and I'm
focused on transparency and so those values I attempt to
model throughout so that our agency as a whole will
model them, and then of course our employees will model
(14:28):
the same things. And so when I think of culture
for the city as a whole, you know, I think
it really is what character? What is our characteristic? What
character are we exhibiting that we want to become.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, one of my one of my favorite authors of
Seth Gold and his definition of culture that I've always
kind of embraced is people like us through things like this,
And so I was even I know, we were kind
of talking offline about just different things, and that's a
that to me is kind of Atlanta, right, Like we
kind of do certain things and people like us at
aliens Old Atlanta, New Atlanta, whatever you want to kind
of call it, right, Like, there are certain things we
kind of come around together and we say that's just
(15:00):
a part of Atlanta, Right. So that's how I've always
kind of looked at culture. But you know, y'all doing
an amazing work over there. But at the same time, Atlanta
housing is a business and you all have to kind
of balance that stuff out as well, Like what does
the business of Atlanta housing kind of look like behind
the scenes that people may not understand or fully realize.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
It's a lot you know, as an agency if you
just think about think about who we are. So we
recently approved our board rather recently approved our upcoming budget
for this fisical year. And it's a little leaner than
it has been in past years, by eighty million dollars leaner.
But with that funding, we will provide rental assistance, will
(15:37):
provide operating assistance for existing rental developments, will provide funding
for development opportunities, will come in, and will provide consulting,
consulting and contractual opportunities for the private nonprofit sector to
really quite honestly help us with the business of the organization.
And then of course, you know, we have our staff
and so on a daily basis. And what I like
(15:58):
to tell people, it doesn't matter what your title is
at the agency. The question is what is your role
of responsibility helping us move the mission forward? And our
mission is to ensure that anyone who desires to call
Atlanta home have an opportunity to do so. So. In
doing that, that means I'm if I'm in procurement and
if I'm working on an offering If I have a
(16:20):
piece of paper and I don't move, I don't move
that piece of paper, then I'm hurting somebody possibly being
able to have the chance to call Atlanta home. And
so every little thing that we do from a business
enterprise aspect, all fees into it. Whether you're the fleet manager,
whether you are quite honestly over communications, whether you are,
(16:41):
you know, over procurement, whether you're working in residence services,
everything comes to the whole of making sure that we're
able to house our families and quite honestly trying to
have fun doing it. You know, the work that we
do is really hard, and I've been I've been blessed
Brandon to really work in this field for over thirty
years now. And I say blessed because any time you
have an opportunity to use your God given capacity to
(17:03):
help people, that's a blessing. But I also recognize that
it's very hard work and we're and we're quite honestly
are working against the market so many times, and so
anything that we can do to sort of lighten the
load and have fun while we're doing the heavy lifting,
it's something I like to encourage as well.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, now I've been I've been going through you all stuff,
been on the website, looking at everything, just learned about
the different programs recently. And one thing I want to
kind of double tap on for a second is you
talked about rental assistance and also y'all have down payment
assistance programs, and I think in general just for us,
especially as you know people in Atlanta, you know, the
black population Atlanta, just minority diverse populations, like home ownership
(17:41):
and those opportunities and kind of the cornerstone and building wealth.
Can you just share a little bit about, you know,
how people can access to those programs, what they require,
because I think a lot of people don't fully understand that,
you know, these services, these agencies exist and they might
not even fully realize they might qualify for them. So
can you maybe share a little bit of information about how
those work.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah? Absolutely, And so I'll start with the home ownership
program because I believe Atlanta Housing's home ownership program probably
is our best kept secret. And I can say that
because coming over to the agency probably a little over
five years ago, my first capacity as chief operating officer,
prior to becoming the CEO of the organization, I had
no idea how many families we were assisting on an
(18:20):
annual basis for housing for home ownership opportunities, No idea.
I mean it was literally a best kept secret. And
I can say that because at the city I was
the former chief Housing Officer and I was working directly
with all the agencies and literally Atlanta Housing was not
telling this story. And so on an annual basis, we
actually impact over two hundred individual or two hundred households
(18:42):
to have the potential to become home owners now. Because
the funding we're using as federal funding, we are capped
at a income limits, so basically you have to be
at eighty percent or below the median income. What that
means is for one person, one person household, you probably
have to make a little less than forty seven thousand
dollars a year to be able to qualify for our assistance.
We require any eligible participant to actually go through an
(19:04):
eight hour home buy a counseling program. We also require
them to work with one of our participating lenders. And
I believe our actual amount of downpayment assistance in a
person could qualify is between twenty thousand to twenty five
thousand dollars twenty thousand for just your average household twenty
five thousand dollars if it is a public safety employee,
(19:26):
because we also want to encourage our public safety employees
here to live here within the city. Maximum sales price
is a little under four hundred thousand dollars to be
able to utilize our assistance. Now, what we're finding though,
is in the market is that buyers, potential buyers rather
are having to layer assistance, and that basically means Brandon
that they'll have to utilize funding from Atlanta Houses program,
(19:50):
possibly invest Atlanta's program, and maybe even the state's program
in order to be able to afford to buy a home.
But we do, and we are very proud of the assistance.
So we're able to provide our families.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, you know, I don't think a lot of people
even fully understand that all these different programs out of
here not only exists, but they're accessible. You actually said
something I talk about a lot that I think is
very important, which is for public service employees also living
in certain communities. I think, especially in a city like Atlanta,
with the kind of population that we have, it is
really important, especially for people like police and like different
(20:22):
offices like that right to actually live in the communities
that they serve, because if not, again, like you know, lastly,
you wanted somebody living, you know, way up north, they
come down here, they do their work, and they take
all that stuff back. And so what impact have you've
seen from that actually having those people back in the
communities that they actually serve.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, I think it has some impact. I think it's
also important to note though, Atlanta from a household size
is probably about one point one point one and a
half persons for households, So Atlanta's household size is not
necessarily family households. And so when you think about that
from the standpoint, the question is where are families actually living,
And those families are living in the suburbs, and we
(20:59):
all know since possibly why. But what I am seeing
is that as we're repopulating and regenerating, regenerating some of
our former public housing sites, we're gaining more interest and
we're gaining more interest not just from public safety employees,
but quite honestly from families who want to know whether
or not they can come back to the city.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah. Yeah, for a lot of times, again, like people
have maybe seeing the city is I mean, obviously there's been,
you know, a big boom in browsing, and like a
lot of housing has become less affordable over time. Like
how do you all just tackle that gap in times
like this when it comes to help to serve your families.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, so it's you know, I remember being in a
room a couple of years back, and the gentleman was
a former he was a former deputy Secretary of HUD
under President Obama, and he had a map of the
United States on on the screen and he said, tell
me what city has solved the affordable housing crisis, And
so we started naming cities and he said, no city
has solved the affordable housing crisis. And it's actually getting worse,
(21:55):
and it's it's becoming a national crisis. And what we're
seeing now, Brandon, is it really is a global crisis
when it comes to the lack of affordability. And in
one of the conversations we often do not have when
we talk and I'll get to what we're doing, but
I think it's important to talk about the fact that
it is what housing costs versus what people make. And
(22:15):
if you think about Atlanta right now today, in Atlanta,
the national Low Income Housing Coalition released a report that
basically says, for a person to be able to afford
a two bedroom unit in Atlanta at fair market rent,
they would have to earn a housing wage, an hourly
wage of forty one dollars. Oh, forty one dollars now
minimum wage in the city, minimum wage in the state,
(22:38):
I'm sorry, it's seven dollars and twenty five cents. And
so that means a person would have to earn close
to six times the minimum wage to be able to
afford housing in this city. Okay, that's important because we
can't subsidize our way out of it. So when you
think about the public subsidy resources, we have to be
(22:59):
able to make a developed meant affordable, to be able
to help somebody pay their rent, to be able to
encourage someone to go to home ownership, those resources only
go so far. So while we're tackling the housing issue,
we also need to tackle the economic mobility issues in
order to ensure that people can earn a living wage
in order to be able to be able to afford
to have some place to stay. Now for us, for example,
(23:21):
if you think about the Bow and Homes project that
we're doing now with seventy four acre site along Hollow Well,
that's about a seven hundred and sixty million dollar redevelopment
on When it's all said and done, we'll repopulate the
site with over two thousand units of housing that'll be
both rental as well as homeownership. By the thirty five
to forty percent affordability on that site, we were able
to receive a grant from HUT of about forty million
(23:44):
dollars and we're using around seventy million of our own
subsidy resources to come in to make that development opportunity
affordable for people to come back. And so what happens
is any to affordable housing project, what you'll find is
you'll have private find nancy and possibly owners equity. But
what makes it affordable is the public subsidy gap that
(24:05):
we're able to come into field.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I had We had Milton Little
from the United Whale here one time, and he and
I had a whole conversation about just I think Atlanta's
like what like ninety or ninety percent and upper mobility.
So essentially, if you essentially born in low poverty, there's
almost a ninety ninety five percent chance you'll kind of
state in yeah, and so again it's really important these
kind of programs exist, right.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
But that's why it's also important that for the families
that we serve, that we're able to equip them from
the economic standpoint to transition off the program, because if
you think about it, we serve I told you we
touched about forty three thousand people, that really constitutes about
twenty a little over twenty five thousand households. If we
serve the same twenty five thousand households year after year,
(24:47):
then we're not able to help in that trajectory of
moving people off of that alone, that economic clime. So
one of the things that we've started just this last
year is what we call the resident renaissance, and that's
how you know, we went back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Shelter is that first component, but after shelter, what's next.
(25:08):
And so if we can make sure our residents have
access to different educational opportunities, different workforce developing opportunities that
will that will give them the ability to earn a
higher wage, it also helps them be able to stand
on their own two feet and be able to move
from our program to a level of self sufficiency though,
so that we can reach back and help the next family. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Absolutely, now and when you think about that too, right,
I mean you kind of mentioned it a second ago,
like some federal funding is obviously been cut and things
are changing. I know it's a little a little tough
out there trying to manage all that stuff, but in general,
with all the different rules and regulations, you all have
to kind of work through how do you all balance
that but still kind of stay innovative and finding ways
to serve these families.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So you have to, you just absolutely have to. So
one of the things I will tell you, I'm a
firm believer in understanding the rules. And I say understanding
the rules because there's always there's always a path to yes.
And so we start off with what is how do
we get to a yes? And so understanding the rules
and the rules continue to change, but making sure that
(26:09):
we stay on top of that. Understanding what the rules
and regulations are and how we utilize them to help
benefit our families, but also how we make sure our
families understand the rules and regulations. So it's not just
you know, big Ah coming up with we want to penalize. No,
we don't want to penalize anyone, but we do want
to make sure that we uphold the requirements we have
(26:29):
to uphold to continue to maintain some of the precious
resources we have. But when you think about innovation, what
I like to define innovation as being willing to take
a risk and try something different. And in the time
that we're in, especially from a housing affordability crisis, we
don't have a choice but to be innovative. We don't
have a choice but to understand what are the different
(26:50):
construction types out there that can help us not even
not just build housing cheaper, but also build it faster. Right?
What other program opportunities can we create? You know, if
we want to partner with a good Will, for example,
and create a specialized workforce development program for our residents
around Goodwill, what does that look like to get our
residents trained in clean energy because we know those jobs
(27:12):
are paying a way to forty dollars an hour plus, right,
So how do we start thinking in that manner? In
order to do so, how do we encourage the private
sector to assist us in creating some type of housing
subsidy program so that as we graduate our families off
of public assistance, they still have a window of maybe
six to nine months where they have assistance while we're
(27:33):
helping them stabilize financially. Those are the type of things
that we should be doing.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, and I love the way you talk about like
partnerships and all the people that are kind of involved,
because I'm sure there are some people that think affordable
housing means cheap or means like that. But you all
are working with developers in the city and you know
all these different different groups culture leaders to help make
sure these things are affordable. Like, like, what's the goal
when you all kind of start planning a project to
make sure that it kind of checks all the boxes.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
We want a project to be somewhere where we will
to live first and foremost. Right years, my very first
boss out of grad school told me that he said,
guy by name of Willie Horton when I was in Jackson, Mississippi,
he said, never expect a family to live somewhere we
wouldn't live. And so we start off with that main
goal of what, you know, what do people actually want?
(28:21):
And not planning for people, but planning with people to
understand exactly what type of product would they like to
see what type of housing would they like to have understanding,
and this is not the end user who would actually
live within the community, but also the neighborhood. How do
we work with the neighborhood to make sure that we're
being catalytic to the neighborhood and not damaging to the neighborhood,
(28:44):
And so really just having a pulse on the ground,
you know, making sure that we listen to what the
concerns are, listen to what the need is, and then
work collaboratively with our neighborhood, with our development partners, with
the city, with other public sector agencies as well as
the private sector to make sure that we build a
community that people can now only call home, but will
(29:05):
be value add to the neighborhood, which will reside in.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
One of the questions I love to ask people when
they come on at you know, your level, the CEO level,
the president level, is how do you get there? Because
I think a lot of times you can it's easy
to connect the dots looking backwards, but I think, you
know a lot of people talk about want to be
a CEO or a leader. You know. It was funny
I had doctor Kevin James on the president of Morris
Brown and I asked him, I said, how do you
become the president of a college? And his answer was, man,
(29:41):
one day, I was watching the news and I saw
that Morris Brown didn't have a college, I didn't have
a president some stuff that obviously happened up there, and
so I did some research and I literally sent a
cold email and then I called them and then we
had a conversation in months later. He's like, I'm the president,
but I'm oversimplifying it. But like, you know, nobody really
understands that. So I love to ask people who are
(30:01):
CEOs and at your level, right, like, how does somebody
even get to that type of role. I know you
mentioned before that you've been the COEO there and you've
done some work, but just help people understand and kind
of connect the dots on how you actually ended up
in this role.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
You no, absolutely, and so you know I started off
by telling you that it's a blessing to do this work.
And there's a scripture that I that I refer to often,
and this Romans eight twenty eight, and it literally says
all things work to the good of those who love
the Lord and will called according to his purpose. And
when I think about the trajectory of my career, I
will tell you it literally has. It literally has been
(30:35):
that I've been blessed to be in this field for
over thirty years. Literally have not been in any other
field other than community and economic development from the time
I graduated from college, and so it has been a calling,
holding different roles in different cities, but it literally, Brandon
has been a calling for me. And I've been able
(30:56):
to use the capacity to understanding I have from a
housing standpoint to be able to help people. And I've
had some wonderful mentors. And I didn't even understand because
you know early in my career that they were mentors,
but the first African American mayor for the city of Jackson, Mississippi,
was one of my mentors. While I was in graduate school,
I actually had the opportunity to labor and it was
(31:17):
labor at a nonprofit organization titled Misissippi Institute for Small
Towns and Harvey Johnson is his name, and Harvey actually
led a nonprofit organization that provided not just housing assistance
to families that were on the coast of Mississippi or
in the Delta Mississippi but also public facilities, wastewater improvements,
(31:39):
working with city plans and so watching Harvey and having
an opportunity, you know, at the age of twenty to
literally see that work gave me the inspiration to really
want to dig deep into this field. And you know,
my career has been a trajectory of roles. But what
has been consistent in that to direct their roles, whether
(32:01):
it was Director of Housing and Jackson Directive of Housing
here in Atlanta, Deputy Commission of City Planning in Atlanta,
the chief first chief Housing officer in this state, as
well as in the City of Atlanta. What has been
consistent is the fact that I have been able to
really use my ability to bring people together to have
(32:23):
the hard conversations to come with with solutions as to
how we can help our families have a different way
of life. And so, you know, when I think about
my career and being the CEO of Atlanta Housing, I
literally think about it. Clearly, I didn't know at twenty
I was gonna be a year of Atlanta Housing. But
what I will say is that the latter I have
(32:44):
been on has prepared me, both good and bad, have
prepared me for the path that I'm at today.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was actually having a
conversation with my daughter. My daughter's thirteen, and we were
just talking last night about her getting I was like,
you need to get a summer job this summer. You know.
We kind of joke around because she said she wanted
to be a counselor at this camp. But then she
was like, you know, I don't really want to have to,
you know, manage the kids and manage people. I said, well, look,
here's the thing. If you want to be a leader,
manage it. And that is kind of part of the role,
(33:11):
Like you can't really avoid that. So, you know, the
more practice you can get in doing it, especially you
know when little risk situations, you know what I mean,
like lips out.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
But it's so much more to managing people, right, And
so I think about when I was thirteen, I actually
worked at the newspaper, the Resting Daily Leader. My aunt
worked at the newspaper, so during the summertime she would
bring us in to help roll papers as well and
then also deliver them. And what I learned by watching
my aunt is you have to lead by example, and
(33:39):
so you can't expect someone to do what you're not
willing to do. And you can't ask someone to quite
honestly lead if you're not leading. And so, you know,
I think it's important to understand the first aspect of
managing people is understand how you manage yourself and understand
what example, what example you're setting forth, and how you're
(33:59):
leading because leaders are always being watched, even when you
think you're not, you are being watched. And so when
people are watching, what do you really want them to see?
And for me, I want them to see. I want
them to see the same thing that I see when
I look in the mirror. I want them to see
someone who is desiring to be transparent, someone who is
desiring to be accountable, and someone who is desiring to
(34:21):
be inclusive of the work that we're doing.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
What is this role taught you about leadership that no
other role has taught you.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So we're gonna be here another two hours.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
You know, we got time you keep it going. We
get testing all batteries all day.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah. I think the most important, the important thing I've
learned about this role goes beyond the work. It really
leans into the power of influence and inspiration. In order
to influence and inspire people to follow you, because you
(34:59):
can have a title all day, loan, but you're not
a leader unless somebody's following you. And so really being
able to be aware of that, but also being aware
that I'm not the CEO just of Atlanta Housing. I'm
the CEO for every employee that comes in that building.
And so you know, I can't I can't have favorites, right,
(35:19):
I can't, you know, make decisions based upon personalities. I
have to make decisions. I have to lead the organization
based upon the organizational mission and creating the right cultural
environment for the employees that serve serve us on a
daily basis. And we have some excellent team members that
serve on a daily basis and so it's it is
(35:39):
my responsibility to lead them with integrity.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's an interesting challenge. You
have to kind of manage, you know, the mission against
some of the potential titles and egos, and that's just
people in general, right like that, you know, like my
mom always told me, people gonna do what people gonna do.
But like at the end of the day, you have
to kind of like figure out how to manage that
and get the best out of your team.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
And that's right.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
You know, That's something I always kind of tell my
team is like, look, I know you can do a
lot of things, but the one thing I need you
to do is just through the thing that only you
can do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
But you know, on that ego thing, I'm a firm
believer our brand has to be bigger than our ego.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Right, you know, we could have an ego all day long,
but that ego is not going to move the needle
on the work that needs to be done. It's not
going to move the needle on the growth that we
need to experience, not just as an agency, but even
as individual contributors. Right, And so the question is what
is our brand? What are we collectively hoping to accomplish,
what are we collectively moving towards? And how do we
(36:35):
do it together? Now, everybody may not be happy every day, right,
you know, nine times I can people will not be
happy every day. But that's where I have to, you know,
do my best and use my best judgment to make
the best decisions I can for the organization as well
as for the individuals that quite honestly serve the organization
and the families We serve and there oftentimes I have
(36:58):
to move my ego eut of the way to make
sure that my ego doesn't get in the way in
making it and quite honestly serving as an example for
moving that mission forward.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, how do you see kind of the younger generation,
you know, especially in Atlanta, the creatives, the influencers, like
all these people that are you know, really figuring out,
you know, where they're going to, what they're going to be,
and what they're going to do in Atlanta, Like, how
do you see them helping to help solve these housing
issues that we're facing.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Oh, my god, when you talk about innovation, that's where
the innovation is right one. The desire that I see,
the desire, the desire to be a part of the
solution that I see from the creative class is phenomenal
and so really being able to harness that energy to
help us have these conversations, but also they have they
(37:41):
have their ear to the ground and they're hearing things
that we may not hear. So how do we take
the knowledge and experience we have along with some of
the innovative and creative ideas, but also the things that
they are hearing on the ground. And use them to
collectively come together to make different solutions. One of the
things I remember when I first started started this particular
(38:02):
role as CEO, was someone from the culture, from the
creative class rather basically said hey, you know, to your point,
we don't really know what Atlanta houses supposed to do, right.
We know that it was you know, public housing. All
the public housing was demolished and now it's just a
lot of vacant land. What are you going to do different?
I said, well, I'm a build on it. Okay, I'm
(38:23):
a build on it. And if you know something else
that I should be doing, tell me, because we're you know,
we're not closed. Our ears are not closed to understanding
what people want to hear, different ideas that people have.
Matter of fact, we did that most recently on our
bank Head site. You know bank Head, that area is
becoming mostly industrial, and so what we wanted to do
(38:43):
was basically understand what did the community want to see,
what did the creative class want to see, what did
the business community want to see. On that particular site,
we had over forty offerings of different concepts and ideas
as to how we should move forward with the redevelopment.
That site from housing to quite honestly, another good will center,
to an industrial plaza to a commercial plaza. It was
(39:04):
just all types of ideas.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, and you get that into sight and actually going
and talking to people. It's very easy to kind of
just sit back and you know, sitting in the office
and just kind of assume. But it sounds like you
all are actually really being intentional about getting out there
and talking to the people and ask them what they want.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
We have to we have to. Atlanta deserves that. Yeah,
you know what I mean, Atlanta, and quite honestly, Atlanta
demands it. It just deserves it, but Atlanta demands it.
And it's the only way as an authority, as an agency,
that we'll be able to continue, quite honestly, having the
impactful role that we have with this community is making
(39:40):
sure that we listen to the community that we're hoping
to be a part of.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, you said that in the beginning of this that
you know, you've been Atlanta over twenty years. Just how
is your view and experience of the city kind of
changed over those years versus you know, twenty years ago,
Terry to you know, twenty twenty five, Terry.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
So recently I'm laughing because I've reflected on that I
had an accident back in May that that caused me
to slow down a little bit, and in slowing down,
it also caused me to reflect on my own journey
here in Atlanta, and and reflected on that journey I
didn't always have all. You know, it wasn't a reflection
(40:19):
a positive reflection over everything, but what it was was
an impact for reflection. And I will tell you the
twenty years, the twenty or so years that I've spent
in this city have made me who I am today.
And so the T shirt I have on is that
life is just better in Atlanta. And I will tell
you life has been good for me in Atlanta because
it literally grew me, grew me to the person that
(40:40):
I am today. And as I reflect on the opportunities
that I've been given here, I reflect on the fact
that we I have had an opportunity to be a
part of footprint that will help to make this city
the place that is desired and become an affordable, desire
marable city that anyone who desires to call Atlanta home
(41:03):
can do.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So. Do you remember what the song was playing in
your car when you came to Atlanta twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I Do I Do It was It was a gospel song, actually,
Kirk Franklin, My life is in your hands. And at
that time I was in a gold four door hundred Civic.
I mean Hunter of Cord missed my Hunter chord too,
but I was in a gold Hunter Accord and I
was literally an I twenty right at six Flags exit
(41:32):
and it was on the chorus and you could see
the right there at that exit, you could see the
skyline of the city. It's a beautiful skyline. And at
that moment, you know, because prior to coming to Atlanta,
I was in Jackson, Mississippi, and I had been there
for graduate school and the start of my career. At
that moment, I felt a little intimidated as I was
on I twenty by six Flags looking at the city skyline.
(41:55):
But the chorus of the song was I know that
I can make it. I know that I can stand
no matter what may come my way. My life is
in your hands. And that has proven to be true
for me throughout my journey personal professional in Atlanta. My
life has always been in his hands, and you know,
and so yes, life is just better in Atlanta and
(42:18):
it's been it's been a good.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Journey, absolutely, and well, look we're getting ready to wrap
this up, but I just want to ask for we
get out of here. We talk about people talk about
legacy all the time and what they want to leave behind,
Like what impact do you hope that you know your
time at Atlanta Housing leaves on Atlanta that.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
We understood that it was more than just about building housing,
but it was also about building people and families, and
we were intentional. Every action we took had a footprint
to make sure our neighborhoods were better, but also that
the people that we had the opportunity to serve were
better for our lead because of our leadership.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Absolutely. Well, look, Terry, this has been a great conversation.
I appreciate you pulling up. Before we get out of here,
please tell people how they can and get more information
about Atlanta Housing, how they can learn about the different programs.
It's give them all the things.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Absolutely, So first and foremost, follow us on social media.
We're on Instagram, We're actually on Facebook as well as
LinkedIn at Atlanta Housing. And then please please please go
to our website www. Atlanta Housing dot org sign up
We have a section on our website where you can
sign up to receive our newsletter at Newsletters, as well
(43:26):
as any information about the organization, and we want you
to follow us. We want you to be a part
of the work that we're doing, and quite honestly, we
want to hear from you. We want to hear the
good stories. We also want to hear the not so
good stories, but we want to hear anything that we
can do to become better in this city.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Absolutely well, Miss Terry Mlida m Sands from Michelle, y'all
don't forget it, but thank you so much for pulling
up for button Nomics. We appreciate all the amazing work
that y'all are do in Atlanta housing to make sure
that people have opportunities out here. It is much needed,
and you know, we hope that people take advantage of learned,
take advantage the programs that learn some of this conversations.
Thank you so much for coming out.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
No, Brandon, thank you, I really appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Thank you absolutely. With that said, y'all, that's the pod
we out. You've been listening to Button Nomics and I'm
your hosts. Brandon Butler got comments feedback. Want to be
on the show, Send us an email today at Hello
at butternomics dot com. Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta,
Georgia at iHeartMedia by Ksey Pegram, with marketing support from
Queen and Nikki. Music provided by mister Hanky. If you
(44:25):
haven't already, hit that subscribe button and never missed an episode,
and be sure to follow us on all our social
platforms at butter dot atl Listen to button Nomics on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Brandon Butler
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