May 22, 2025 ⢠42 mins
On this episode of Butternomics, our host, Brandon Butler, sits down with attorney Amber Saunders to talk about the most overlooked step in building generational wealth: estate planning. Amber breaks down wills, trusts, life insurance, and why GoFundMe is not a strategy. She shares the real stories behind what happens when families don’t have a plan, and how one house, passed down the right way, can shift everything for the next generation. This episode is your crash course in protecting what you’ve earned and making sure it lasts.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The only thing my grandmother had. The only thing my
great grandmother had was that house. It doesn't matter if
it's just that I think that we have to do
a better job of not comparing, like everything looks flashy
and shiny on social media. The first thing is that
I really don't have a lot. I don't care what
you have. You need to realize that it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So why do you think that what you have is
not important.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Enough to protect? That doesn't make any sense. You worked
for it's yours.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Make sure nobody's taking it.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Everybody. Welcome to another episode of butter NOMIGX. I'm your host,
Brandon Butler, found in CEO of Butter atl And. Today
we got a special guests up in here and we
go way back like we go back you know again.
This is the thing, man, y'all think I'll be playing around, man,
I got deep relationships in this city. I know people,
and I've known people for a while. It's not a gate,
(00:55):
it's not a game. And I got my friend, my
homegrown Miss Amber Saunders is esquired up at une. Amber
Saunders esquire, how you doing man good? I'm doing great.
I'm doing great, so real quick, you know what Before
we get into that, We've been doing some a little
bit different here on button nomics lately. Right. I usually
(01:16):
have people introduce themselves, like you know, who are you
and all this kind of stuff. But what I've actually
been doing lately is I'm just asking chat Cheapt. So
I'm gonna tell you what chat Cheapt said about you
when I said, do you know who? Amber Saunders is
of the Saunders Firm.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Okay, you ready for this?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Interesting? Okay?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Amber C. Saunders is the principal attorney at the Saunders
Firm in Atlanta based law practice, specializing in the state
planning and business law. She holds a Juris doctor degree
from Atlanta's John Marshall Law School and an LLM from
Emory University School of Law class of twenty twenty one.
Before practice in law, Ambers founded in Richmond Prepp, an
(01:57):
alternative test prep company, and authored Ahead of the Curve
What Parents Need to Know to Get their Kids Into College.
Her firm officer services in the state planning, a state administration,
and business law, aiming to help clients and protect generational wealth. Now,
my question for you is is that accurate? And did
it leave anything out?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm about to copy it. I like that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
You like that?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I like you know, you didn't give too much.
It didn't give too much and gave just an.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
You know, I've had a couple people because some people
a coup. People were like, you know, it's closed. They
left a couple of things out. But I think you know,
if you feel like that's kind of directionally on point,
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, it's more, but like it didn't it didn't need
to read out my resume, So it's all right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I like that now again just for a little context,
and we met long, long, long time ago, long time
ago of coming out of twenty ten? Was that it Yeah, yep,
it was around twenty ten. It was after I know,
I had won that Black Enterprise pitch competition and then
we got put in the the one hundred ue a
(03:00):
program that was a we're supposed to cut us some checks.
Did you ever get your check?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I got a little bit of mine. I got a
little bit of mine, but you know I ain't get
all of it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I think I did. Yeah, mine was at Justin's. Yeah,
that's where I did mine. Okay, that's what it was. Well,
we know I was at Justin's. There were some other
connections in there back in the day.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know, yeah, who knows.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I don't know where all those folks are now, but
that was when that's when you were doing in Richmond prep, right,
that was when you were getting all that stuff going.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yep, that's when I started it. I think I got mine.
Does that helped me with all of that stuff?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, that's when I had the website shop. I remember
I had to fight them to get a little bit
of my money and then they told me at a
certain point they were like, well Brandy, you can't really
so just for those that don't know, so we got
putting this accelerator program. I don't care. There are a
lot of business now, so we can say what every
want to say. We gotta put this accelerator program. I
think they promised both of us, Like was it one
hundred grand? It was ten? Okay, I know it was
(04:02):
some numbers on there. Yeah, it was ten grand or something.
And you know, I thought when I won the competition
they gave me a check, I was like, all right,
where my money at? And then the yeah, I took
the picture and then they were like, well, actually get
it over time, you get it over time, but we've
actually subcontracted this out to another company. In order for
(04:24):
you to get your money. Now, you got to go
through this business accelerator program. And at that time, I
was doing the website shop. I had a chain of
web design stores and like malls and brick and mortar,
and I remember I was just like, why you got
me in meetings with people asking how to build design
a logo, like I'm makinggn logos, I'm making stuff like
I'm a little bit further ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Then.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I remember we got to a certain point and they
were when it was finally time to get the money,
they were like, well, in order to get the money,
you got to basically like write a request or a
proposal for why you need the money. This is again,
this is probably three or four months after we actually won.
And then on top of that, I remember they told
(05:04):
me that you can't ask for the money all at
once because other people need their money too.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Mm.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I don't think that happened to me, didn't happen to you? No.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I feel like I got mine all at once, because
I think I was one of the first.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh you you went through and got it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I think they gave me my I think, I mean,
I still had to go through the program, but I
don't remember having to do a request. I remember other
people having to ask for it when we were going
through the power, but I don't remember having to do that.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, and then I remember I had to send a
very pointed email to the oh y'all, to the good
people at Black Enterprise, and I got my I got
I got some more of my money from them directly,
you know. So it was it was a mess.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You were causing a rucket.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I was causing all kinds of ruckets because I was like, yeah,
I need my money, all right right now, y'all gave
me this big old check.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I had that big check. Took this picture.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I think. I think I threw that check away a
couple of years ago. But I used to take that
check with me to stuff. I remember I went to
another pitch competition. I brought the check with me to
another pitch competition one time, like I was like, you
know what, if I ain't getting this money, I'm gonna
use this check to get me some more money. So
imagine that. Imagine me walking to a pitch competition to pitchbok.
Somebody else with somebody else's check and then being like,
(06:15):
y'all should give me this because I already won this one,
Like I know what I'm doing. I was wild out.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Back in the day. Oh that's fun. We've come a
long way since then, though, we've come a long way.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Look at us now, Okay, they'll doing this, They'll still
running doing businesses, trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Trying to figure it out. Now, tell me now again
after that, tell me now what is the stist from
what exactly you're working on?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Now?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Chat chet to us a little bit, but now you
can tell.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Us a business and a state planning. The bulk of
the practice is a state planning because I just love
doing that. I think that it is really important. I
don't think there are enough people who do it, and
so that's my favorite kind a lot of practice. And
I wouldn't have thought so because it was born and
I don't know what in law school it was terrible.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
No, what led you down that path? How did you
get involved in it?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
My grandmother was the only person that I really knew
who did any estate planning.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And she did it. She like used to go.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Meet with her friends on Sunday and pick stocks and
she got long term care, insurance, health care directive, power, attorney,
all this stuff. So when she had a stroke and
her dementia got bet, it was really easy for my
mother and my uncle to take care of her. And
when she passed away, the property just was in their
name and there were no issues.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
But then we saw all these.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Other people in my family who who folks was cutting
up And then the last person that died during her
time here is my uncle and my mother had to
go to court for like three years and some change,
and so it was like, well, why didn't y'all do
this when Grandma did it?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It didn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And finally my mother was able to sell the house
and that money that the house was originally my great grandmother's,
her grandmother.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
It helped her pay for stuff when she was sick.
It helped all of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And so I'm like, if just one house can do that,
imagine if all of us are setting up things for
our children, and yeah, you know, it can just eat.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I mean, we wouldn't have to do pitch competitions.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
If there was some money through some money or somewhere
that might make it easier for you to start the business.
You don't have to go big banks or try and
do all this stuff because you have something there that
will allow you to be able to start something and
figure it out. So I just want to evangelize that
as much as possible, because I think we have a
thing in our community about making folks grind for stuff
all the time or like, well I worked for it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
They need to work. What help them? Help them a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Helped them out, help them out.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
It's interesting because I mean, again, I've worked with a
lot of people and one thing I've just again noticed
and realized over the years, especially in basically non black communities,
like get a lot of wealth comes from insurance and
passing down assets. I mean, don't even get me started
on the whole like big borrow and die and you
know all that kind of stuff, right, But like I
don't I think the people kind of missed that critical step.
(08:46):
Like I have a friend of mine. I remember he
started his business. He recently sold his company for millions
of dollars, and I used to work with him, and
I remember he had an uncle that passed away and
his uncle left him like a couple hundred grand and
that's what he used to fund his business, right, and
so I think getting people missed that step, and like
we were even talking about before, I'm like, look, gofund
me is not it should not be your option, right,
(09:08):
I mean, look, I understand stuff happens, but like go
fund me should not be the default way that we're
gonna put some of y'all on the ground. On top
of that, you're still not leaving anything for anybody. So
when it comes to a state plan and a lot
of people think it's only for wealthy people, people that
have money, you know, when did you realize that people
in our community especially were kind of missing out on
this critical.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Step because I thought back to childhood in life and
I don't even think i've ever heard a black person
say somebody died. They'll be like going up yonder a transition,
right got their wings. I mean, it's all kind of
and it's like if you don't even say the word,
you're not even dealing with it, Like you won't you're
not even thinking about this might happen to you, what
(09:48):
I need to plan for. We don't even want to ooh,
don't talk about it or something like that, or I
mean there's just and I don't want to call it
superstition because it's not like, oh, there's a black cat
walking by, But it's like we act like if you
talk about it, it's going to happen faster. And it's
not just us, like there are other communities in the
in the Latino community.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
People don't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Then like they're not planning for we're not talking about it,
and I think we leave our children, our community at
a disadvantage just period.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So that's one thing.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And then two we think we have time, like we
literally like, Okay, I'm gonna do it later.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I got too much other stuff to do.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Why am I going to sit here and start talking
about Well, if I'm in the hospital, this is what
I want to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I don't want to do that. Yeah, like people just
will avoid that at all costs.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
But you can see examples of I mean celebrities and
see how it can You know you don't you want
to tell people the same way you want to run
your business or you want to plan your vacation.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You want to plan what happens in the case of
an emergency.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Okay, so tell people if you don't do this, because again,
like here's the thing. Look, I hope everybody's here for
a long time. I wish all health and happiness and
wealth and all these things. But again, the reality is
we're all not going to be here. But if you
don't do these things, if you don't put these things
in place, what will happen.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
So there's a few things. I mean, I think that
there are simple stories. One of one that I think
is in the news that people might remember is take
Off dying. And he didn't have a relationship with his father,
so he's not married, he doesn't have any kids. His
mother would get it, his mother and father would get it.
His father didn't raise him, according to reports. So now
(11:29):
this person is getting half of a twenty six million
dollar estate, and it is probably going to continue to
get money because there are royalties that would be.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Going from what all the songs that they had.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So now this person who didn't raise you private and
pay child support, didn't do whatever, gets half of your
stuff instead of your mother. But of course he was
twenty something years old. He didn't think he was gonna die, right,
So there's no plan not to mention the amount that
the estate is going to have to pay in taxes,
Aretha Franklin had a special need son. They're looking for
stuff on napkins and things like that. That, or it
(12:01):
can be as simple as siblings are arguing because whatever
beef they had growing up is going to show up
when someone passes away. Or the thing that I see
a lot is with blended families. People get married, they
have second marriages, and there's money and things that they
want for their children to be able to have, but
they didn't take care of it. So then the spouse
(12:21):
gets part of it. And if something happens to that
spouse and their children get it. And the person who
died doesn't want this other person's children to get their stuff.
They want their children to But you don't sit down
and go through that because it means you have to
have uncomfortable conversations.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yea, and we do it all the time.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
My grandparents did not get a divorce until they both
were about to marry somebody else.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So if they had died but they were in.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
A relationship with someone else or had other kids, then
your ex gets everything. Because you don't want to sit
there and have a conversation about it, It just doesn't.
We can you can cause considerable harm to your family.
It can go through probate court if someone opens up
in a state, But if they don't and it's just there,
then you're living in the house, Grandma's house. Which is
(13:02):
why we have so many issues with airs property and
we can't you know, rehab or get mortgages on or
do things like that because it's not properly changed over.
And I mean, I don't even have a good reason
why we don't do it. Some of it I think
is we don't know, but a lot of it I
think is we just avoid it.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, Now, just for definition's sake, because I think sometimes
again language matters, words matter, And you know, when you
hear a state, you think some big you know, I
think about like Dallas show.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Dallas white fence and you have to go down a
couple acres before you get to the house.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Right Jr. You And you know what I'm saying, some
big But again, like what is the definition of an estate?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Just in general, anything that's in your name, that you own,
your shirt is a part of your state.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Anything that you have is a part of your estate.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And a state planning means that essentially you saying what
happens to those things if something happens to you and
what happens to your body or to your bank account.
So with the healthcare directive or a living will, you're saying,
if I can't make these decisions, this is.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
What I want you to do.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's dictating what happens with everything in your life, including yourself.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Okay, okay. Now, the other big word that we know
you see anytime you turn on social media, anytime you
look around, is generational wealth. Generational wealth. Got to have
generational wealth, you know. And look, a lot of us
are first generation, if we're just being totally honest, you
know a lot of I was having a conversation at
a location in Atlanta, very high up in the city,
(14:32):
and I was, you know, sitting this table with a
bunch of people that were definitely multi generational, and I
was explaining to them. I said, you know what, I'm
I'm first generation. I'm figuring this thing out too. You know,
I'm glad that I've got where I'm at. But like again,
like I don't have didn't nobody you know, my parents
are still here, thankfully, But like I said, nobody passed
me now any money or anything like that. But like
when it comes generational wealth, How do you define that
(14:54):
based on what you do?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
By definition, generational wealth means this generation is passing something
down to the next. You can't have generational wealth without
making a plan to transition it, because that means you
just have wealth. It's not generational if it can't go.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah to the next group.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So when people are saying we want generational wealth, they
really mean when I hear it, they really mean, let
me just make a lot of money. They're not talking
about how am I going to leave it for my children.
That's the part that they missed in the conversation.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
You know, when people talk about the state planning and all,
and you know, in generational wealth, a lot of times
I guess they just think it starts to just really
just writing a will, Like is it more than that?
Are there other misconceptions that you kind of deal with
when you're talking about a state planning, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Because it's you have to be more thoughtful than that.
Having a will isn't enough. I've seen too many times
that so you have a will, it has to go
to probate court. Probate court, they say the purpose of
probate court is is to make sure the will is
valid and follows the proper structure, and then to distribute
the assets. But in all honesty, the purpose to probate
court is to preserve your assets for the benefit of
(16:10):
your creditors, because they don't want people to die and
owe the hospital, owe all these people money and then
give stuff to their children and not pay these debts off.
So it is opening up, for example, the estate of
Amber Saunders, and if I had if once that death
certificate issues, my family or whoever is going to start
getting letters that says.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh, my condolence is for your loss. Who's going to
pay this bill?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Right? And so they're waiting to see if someone opens
in a state, they want you to notify them, and
there's ways for them to be able to see whether
or not, and then they're going to file a claim.
And so before the will can even work and give
something to your children or whomever else, all those creditors
have to be paid first.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Taxes have to be paid for whatever income you made
that year.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
All of that is to pay off all of that debt,
and then whatever's left over goes according to your will.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
And so there are ways to get around that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So when people just want to have a will, or
they think, you know, TV does a disservice because they'll say, oh,
we're going to do a reading of the will. It's
like that don't matter because it's still got to go
to court and go through the process. So what you're
reading it for, you're not gonna get anything until it
goes through probate. Right, and now, if they were doing
a reading of the trust maybe or something like that,
like a trust will allow you a revocable living trust
(17:20):
will allow you to skip all of that, so your
trust would be the beneficiary of your bank accounts or
whatever you want to make to go inside of the trust,
you can change the deed to your house the warranty
ded to put the trust on there so that when
you pass, there's nothing to open up in a state
for it doesn't have to go through that process. So
then whoever you designate as the person in charge the trustee,
(17:42):
they can go the next day and sell whatever as
soon as they get the death certificate or whatever they
need to show that you are no longer there, then
they can follow your wishes, take care of everything, and
they don't.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Have to go get a GoFundMe.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah now, yeah, you just brought up another term too,
a trust.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Again.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I hear that thrown around on social media all day.
I keep on hearing this is what the wealthy people do.
They put their stuff in the trust. And you do
this and so get what is a trust?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So it's an agreement that you make. Essentially, you're the
grantor meaning the person who created it. In these terms,
I mean whatever, You the person who made it. Right,
You make the trust, You decide who the trustee is.
Most of the time, you're going to be the trustee
of your revocable living trust. And it's an agreement that
you're making during your life to give these things over
(18:29):
to this trust and say what is supposed to happen,
How your children receive it, if they're allowed to sell
property do You're just saying what you want to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
There's a revocable and an irrevocable revocable you can change
as many times as you want. The mortgage companies not
going to have a problem if you put your property
in it, because it's still attached to you. The EI
in is your Social Security number. You don't have to
file any taxes. It's not like it's a separate entity.
When you have an irrevocable trust, you are giving all
(18:59):
of whatever assets you want to put in there, you're
giving it away. Once you put it in there, you
cannot take it back. It does not belong to you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You're not the trustee. Most of the time. You cannot
be the trustee at all. You can't change the terms.
That's why it's irrevocable. You cannot revoke it.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's it. When you do that, you might.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Be subject to gift tax if you're unless you're below
the exemption. And that's where people are like, oh, we
want asset protection during their life. Whatever these assets are
they're putting in there, it's protected from creditors under certain
conditions all of that. Most people don't need that in
all honesty, because we have this paranoia about, oh, I
(19:38):
want to protect my assets from creditors.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Who is coming to get you?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Like, and if you put things in there knowing someone's
coming to get you, it can be undone each state
there's a uniform, like I can't even remember the name
of it now because because I'm about to tell you
it's probably why I don't remember. But essentially, if if
you know of a creditor and things like that, and
you're trying to hide stuff, they can undo the transfer,
fraudulent transfer anyway, they'd consider that. So it just depends
(20:02):
on the circumstance under which you're transferring it. But it's
going to pay higher taxes, plays the highest tax rate
on any gains.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Things like that.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Depending on the circumstance, depending on how much money you have,
depending on what your profession is, you might need it,
but in general most of us do not. So when
people are calling my office saying they need a rock
a fella trust, I'm like, do you have Rockefeller money?
Because for what like it doesn't even make any sense
for you to make it that complicated for your family.
Just make sure it doesn't go to probate court and
(20:32):
tell them, teach them how to continue what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But you don't. Necessarily it becomes irrevocable on your family anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
So like, once you die as the grant or the
person who creates it, nobody else can change the terms.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Okay, so they are stuck.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
The same way it would be if you created one
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Then so you can you really have the power to
craft it the way you want to make them or
to help them. You know, if you teach them the
right thing, they'll be able to preserve it and put
more things in and do all of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, So estate planning is essentially coming up with a
plan for your state and figuring out what types of
things you need. Do you need a trust, Do you
need a revocal, irrevocable trust. Do you need a will?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Like?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Like?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's basically it comes down that always people just mix
all this stuff together.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And I mean and that people will want to land.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All of that stuff is a part of a state
planning because the land of property, all that stuff is
a part of your estate.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
So that's just a general name for it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
You might just want asset protection, you might just want
I mean, they're a trust where you just put life
insurance in there because you don't want it a part
of your taxable estate.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So it'll be an irrevocable life insurance trust.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Depending on your financial situation, how much money is there,
what you want to accomplish or determine what kind of
trust or what kind of things you might need. But
for most of us, we don't need things that are
that complicated. The real thought process needs to go into
what terms do we want to put in there? How
do we make sure because we might be we're the
first generation probably for a lot of people making the
(21:58):
most money. So how do we want to make sure
that our children or our beneficiaries, whoever you're leaving it to.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Don't blow it all?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
How do you make sure that it grows or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
You're gonna have to lay a blueprint out because again
you're the first person who did it.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Maybe hopefully you're teaching them. If not, you're gonna have
to give them some guidance in the document to make
sure that they don't blow all of it.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Now, one thing you hear too when you talk to
people is just so at least I know I hear
when I talk to people is like I don't have
enough money or enough assets to have an a state plan? Like,
what's the reality behind that? Is that true?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
If you have anything? I mean, for my grandmother, it
was just a house.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
That house that my grandmother had, that was my great
grandmother's was bought I don't know in the sixties.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I think my mother sold it.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Finally, in twenty twenty one, my mother was diagnosed with cancer,
March fourteenth, twenty twenty four. That house and that money
is what made her not have to work from my
great grandmother's house, so we don't have to be nothing
but that. But again they had a plan for it
and it was paid off. Sometimes people will just leave
(23:04):
someone a house. But if your income is gone and
you don't have enough life insurance, then can they pay
the mortgage? Right? Like, you know, you have to sit
there and think about that, because if you're the breadwinner
and you're leaving this person the house and then they
have to they can't maintain that lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
You really need to have a plan.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
You need to talk to a financial advisor to see
how much insurance you need or how long will they
be able to maintain that lifestyle. If you're not there
and that income's not there. It just requires some thought.
You shouldn't just leave it. And they not really know
what it means to be a They can be a
home buyer, but they're not a homeowner. They don't know
that taxes are a part of it, so then taxes
don't get paid all of those things.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
It just requires a little bit more work.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, Now a lot of people they might think this
all sounds. You know, they might be hesitanting because they
feel like it's expensive or you know, they can't afford it.
But like when it comes to just again like the
long term value of doing this plan in versus the risks,
Like how do you kind of communicate that to people?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, I mean, I'm gonna keep it a buck what
anybody who calls it they don't need it, I'm just
gonna tell them now I'll do this, like don't spend
this money. I feel like this is God's work, like
helping people do this because this can really change. If
things go the way they are, We're not gonna have
I mean, our community is not going to have a
lot of money, and what they said twenty fifty, it'll
be like zero.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So we have to like do something.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So I would rather, you know, tell people like, hey,
just update the beneficiaries. Do this if you're not trying
to do any you know, in depth planning. But they
need to just have a consultation. It's worth the money
to just talk to somebody and figure out what you
should do and then you can.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Plan for it.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
If you feel like it's too much, then okay, what
can you do right now? Get a health care directive,
power of attorney and get it well. If you want
to plan for a trust later, then plan for the
trust later.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You don't have to do it all in one sitting.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But the alternative is for the state to decide what
to do with your stuff, for your family to potentially
be in conflict because you didn't write down what was
supposed to happen, and you trust them that your children
are not gonna act a fool when you know they
are or shout out Grandpa, like we went to this funeral,
I found I had another uncle.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
That happens.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
And so it's like, if you don't care about your family,
just say that, because essentially that's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
They can fend for themselves. I'm going to be gone.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You don't think enough of them to make it easier.
And also think about the fact that they're going to
be grieving you. You're gone, so you want them to
have to handle your business and deal with your mess
and they can't even process the fact that you're not
there anymore to be there with them to sort through
for them to figure out what to do, like just
do them a solid.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
So somebody's hearing this and they realize they do need
to do a state planning. Like, what's the first thing
they should do. What's the first step they should take.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I'd say, and that the.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
First step is not just going on social media and.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Don't listen to all of those things. I would tell
people just go into it with an open mind because
I get a lot of I've talked to other states,
and we get people who are calling, and we have
to undo what people are saying on social media, so
people will call. I had somebody call me and tell
me they need a family office. I said, sys, how
much money you're trying to put in there? And she
(26:10):
was like, I'm building a trillion dollar company. Do you
have any money now? No, so don't spend it. That
doesn't make any sense, since like, what are you talking about.
You can't pay all of these people. And I had
to try and explain what it was. But she heard
somebody say that that's what rich people have, and it's like,
but you are right, I mean, And so it ends
up being a lot of work trying to undo some
(26:31):
of the So first I would just say, doing inventory
your assets, because that's one of the things that a
lot of people don't know what they have, so they
don't realize how much they have because they haven't really
looked at you had this many accounts, you have some crypto,
you have a house, you have it. They might have
five fifty thousand or ten thousand dollars insurance policies.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Maybe they kept it up, maybe it's term or not.
Just look at everything.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Just sit down and so that when you're going to
talk to somebody and you fill out whatever intake form
they have, you can say, let me show you mine,
and then they can kind of give you some guidance
on what to do. Most lawyers will be honest enough
and say, m M, you don't need a trust.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Just do this.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And you have to really think about what you want
to be done with it, because there are some people
who don't want I mean, we've had significant land loss
in our community. Do you really want them to be
able to sell it? If you don't, and you want
them to keep it? Do they know what to do
with it? If they don't, are you going to give
them some instructions in there? Like? You just have to
think through it, whether it's difficult or not. That's the
(27:31):
biggest blessing you let them just follow the steps, give
them the steps, give them the game.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I think for a lot of people to you know,
I mean there's one not known, but there could also
just be I don't know if it's embarrassment or just hesitation,
because yeah, like sometimes you do have to sit down
and look at the numbers sometimes and like, yeah, you
might not have a one hundred million dollars in the bank, right,
But like, how do you deal with people that are
just you know, apprehensive to even do this because they're
(28:05):
embarrassed when they actually put it down and say, you
know what, I'm actually not worth five million dollars. I'm
worth you know, five thousand dollars. But you still you
can still do this kind of work though, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I mean, you can't build anything if you don't if
you don't even have visibility, right, So you have to
This can be a starting point for you all to
make for you to make a chance, for you to
see this and say, okay, let me protect what I
have and then now I'm gonna come back and get
an amendment in three years because I've built more once
I saw what I had. But it just requires you
to have some sort of and it's you have to
(28:38):
just have the little courage.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I mean, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, But
you're not laughing at nobody, or you're not judging nobody
if they coming to you and they don't, and you know,
because again they got to start somewhere.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And I mean again, my my, the only thing my
grandmother had, the only thing my great grandmother had was
that house.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And it was important to us because they worked for it.
My great grandmother was a maid.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I don't know how she in Boston of all places
that you know what I mean, and bought these houses
on her own. It doesn't matter if it's just that,
Like I think that we have to do a better
job of not comparing. Like everything looks flashy and shiny
on social media. Yeah right, and so we're compared. Oh well,
(29:19):
the first thing is that I really don't have a lot.
I don't care what you have. You need to realize
that it's worth it. So why do you think that
what you have is not important enough to protect? That
doesn't make any sense. You worked for it, it's yours.
Make sure nobody's taking it.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, and again like these are your assets. Again, you
want to make sure that whatever it is, you will
to make sure that you can you have those and
you're not dealing with it now. A lot of people
that are entrepreneurs also listen to this podcast, and you
probably deal with those two, especially in the state like Atlanta. Like,
what are just some specific things that entrepreneurs should consider
when they're getting ready to go down this path of
a state planning man?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
What happens to the business if something happens to you?
Can the business operate without you? If you are gone?
Does it fall apart? And if it does, what are
they supposed to do do with it? Like I have
clients who is a couple and the business is in
her name because they get designated as a minority all
this other stuff. But if something happens to her, he
(30:15):
loses some of those designations because it's tied to her.
Like do you all have a plan on what to do?
Do you have for example, key Man insurance? I refer
a lot of my clients to advisors to get something
like that. So that if you have a partner, a
business partner who you're not related to in any way,
do they really want to be in partnership with your spouse?
If you die, probably not, So you might need a
(30:38):
policy that pays for that interest that you have in
the business so that they're not having to deal with
your spouse. I had a client who was it was
three brothers. One of the brothers died. They had key
man insurance, but they talked to her and when he
died about ten years ago, they decided to keep the
money and grow the business and let her have an interest.
(31:00):
She is terrorizing them now she wants her son to
be a part Like they've never been involved in the business.
The two surviving brothers have been taking care of everything,
and now this person wants documents and they want to
be a part of They want to force their son
to be able to be in the business.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Who never like it's.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
A nightmare because they didn't just pay it out and
follow the blueprint, get some money from somewhere else, let
this lady be gone.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
They didn't think she was going to do that.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They thought she would just allow and they were like, well, Amber,
can I just pay the original amount?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Nope, the business is worth more.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Now you're not going to be able to just give
her that policy because the agreement wasn't with her.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
You all let it go.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So like they're not planning for what happens if someone's gone,
and then a lot of business owners need to just
come up with some succession planning. If the business is
supposed to be able to operate without you, what does
that plan look like?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, who's going to who are you grooming.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
In the business to take over the CEO spot or
whatever you're doing so that it's not tied to you?
One if you want to sell it, because a lot
of folks kids don't want their businesses. It's not like
people are passing them on to children. So who is
going to take it? Are the children or is the
plan to sell it or is the plan to make
sure that they can eat they're getting distributions or something
(32:11):
like that. But you have to plan that out because
otherwise they're gonna be doing a fire sale and selling
all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, Now you said something's there about key Man insurance,
and that's something I've heard that Tom, I've forgotten all
about that specifically. Are there other interesting or useful types
of insurance like that that people should also just in general?
Like you know, I'm I'm just curious, right, like, what
are some other unique types of insurance or you know,
things people should consider in that space.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I definitely would say everyone needs key man.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
If you have a partner or you know, just figure
out how to make sure to get people out of
the way if you need it too. I don't think
I think people underestimate the value of long term care insurance.
I would just let the business pay for it if
you don't want to pay it for it, But like,
you need long term care because the cost of senior
living if you don't have all of that stuff is
a lot. And the reason why we didn't have to
(32:59):
put my grandmother in the home home, it's because she
paid for that. So a nurse came to her home
every day and bathed her and fed her and did
all of those things to make it easier for my uncle,
who was the main caregiver. People need to have that.
There's insurance for everything. I mean, when my mother got diagnosed,
I went and called Aflak the duck and got some
cancer insurance. There's insurance for everything, and I didn't even
(33:20):
know they had that until one of my clients told
me so. I mean, if you talked to an advisor
or you can find some insurance for a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, really didn't. Yeah I didn't know about that. Yeah,
I've been under the AFFLAC headquarters a couple of times.
You know, you know, you know this is crazy, just
as totally as in a side on afflack. Have you
ever been down to Columbus to like afflet headquarters. So
the CEO of AFLAC at the headquarters, they have their big,
huge office right and then next to the office they
(33:49):
have a huge like parking deck. He built an Italian
villa on the top. You can look it up on Google.
A huge mansion Italian villa on the top of the
parking deck, direct next to athletic headquarters. He said he
didn't want to have to walk far to get home.
It's a different kind of money. I'm just trying to
tell folks.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
That strowed off. You want to be that close.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
To work, he said, he want to be that close
to work. He would work that much where. Literally you
can look it up. I've seen it. I've actually been
up there before.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
So they need Joe.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
You got to just not going to excuse me, sir,
if you come to work, you just I know that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Now I'm gonna go look it up.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Total total random fact, total random fact. Sir, Please, if
you could tell every listener that we have, just like,
what's one thing they can do today to start protecting
their future and thinking about it?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
What would it be, have conversations with their loved ones
about it, what they're thinking, what they would want to do.
Because I think also the planning doesn't have to be
a singular thing where you're just doing it yourself because
it's for your family. Really, estate plan is not for
you because you'll be gone anyway, right, but it's for them.
(34:54):
So talk to them kind of about, you know, whether
or not they want to participate in the process.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
What does that look like? An example of?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
And I mean I keep referencing my mother because it
was really the first time I had to go through
it myself when she was sick and I had to
tell her like I don't want to pull to plus
somebody else has to be I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I'm an only child. Were gonna find a friend because.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I don't want to be the person like I'm fine
if someone else does it, but I don't want to
tell any money to take my mother off the machine.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
M I'm not about to live with that. I don't
want to you be in my living room.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
For ten years, like James, however long they had, you
gonna be here with me.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
But I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
But without having that conversation, she's gonna put my name
on everything because I'm the only child. Listen, let me
tell you what my capacity is and what it's not.
And so until we sat there and had that conversation,
I probably would have been and she'd have been mad.
She'd have been mad coming back trying to haunt me.
But I just know myself. I know I don't want
to do it. You need to start having conversations with
your children, with your parents because old black people gonna
(35:57):
tell you it's none of your business and they don't
like So the easier you can make it for yourself
when it's time for you to take care of your parents, Like,
these conversations need to have be had before there's an emergency.
So I would just start with, Hey, what do you
want me to do? I just want to make sure
I don't do something wrong, I don't mess up. Can
you just help me out because I'm writing up my
(36:18):
own I just need to know. And if you make
your parents feel like they're helping you as opposed to
you taking something from them.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Oh you can't. My grandma was mad when we said
she couldn't drive.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, you turned in oncoming traffic, man, Yeah, so you can't,
but she didn't want that freedom taken away. Don't make
them feel like you're taking something away from them. Make
them feel like they're helping you, and they're more likely
to do it. I don't want to make the wrong decision,
do something wrong. I need you to help me and
write this down. Maybe that'll open up the conversation. But
you got to just start talking to people, because we
don't like communicating.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, no, I mean yes, it's a topic that we
definitely in our community we kind of avoid. And then
when it comes up, like you said, you're dealing with
a million other things. And you know, again, people a
lot of times think is just enough to have life
insurance in place, And I mean, I hope you people
will definitely kind of getting that part. But again, there's
other parts to it, because like you said before, if not,
what you don't want to do is certain having the
(37:10):
government and you know, and everybody getting involved and figuring
out how you're gonna split things up. When you're not here,
because like to your point, I mean, I've seen it
many times where you know, somebody passes away and they
have enough if they have a policy, you know, now
you got even the family like arguing about all right,
we're gonna split up. I mean I've been the situation
where I've literally seen the family argue over splitting up
what was left, and I mean everybody got like two
(37:30):
hundred bucks.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Right, It's like you and hope is not a strategy.
I hope they'll do the right thing. That don't work,
Like I hear people, well, I just hope that they will.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
How about let's just give them some instructions that they
have to follow instead of just hoping. We have to
do more than that, because if you want your family
to stay together, be together any of those things, the
likelihood is that they will fight over two hundred dollars
is way larger than you think.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Absolutely. Now, one thing, I I'm sure people also kind
of want to just in general, how much is this
kind of thing cost? Right, and again you don't have
to be like overly specific, but again we're talking about
tens of thousands of dollars to get this stuff done,
or like like how much does it cost, like just
the average person that doesn't have, you know, again, millions
of bucks or like huge assets and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
It's gonna cost you a couple thousand dollars at least.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
It depends on I would try and find an attorney
that does flat fees because I'm not a fan of billing.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
You don't want to call.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
You don't want to feel like you're calling them, and
then you're gonna get a bill for ninety dollars for
fifteen minutes because you're gonna stop asking questions, right, and
so it deters And part of you going through that
process is for you to get some education and know
how to operate. I want, at the end of the day,
anybody who leaves my office to know how to put
assets into trust without me.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You shouldn't have to. Now, if you want to call,
that's fine. You shouldn't have to. This is your stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
You should know how to maneuver it and know how
to do all those things. So through the process, we
want to educate you. So I would look for someone
who has a flat fees so that you don't have
to worry about that and you can get it as
much information as you can, but if you need to,
there's some people who might need to do it yourself.
Start somewhere. I'm not a I mean, I think I
don't like templated stuff. I don't like you not sitting
(39:11):
down and just talking about your family.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
And going through those things.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
But if you have to do that in the beginning,
I'd rather you have something than nothing. Go to one
of the websites, get something, do that, but don't go
to the people on the interweb and get people who
are non lawyers selling you stuff, and then it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I've had to had people give somebody who.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Was non attorney person in another state like six grand.
You ain't somebody six grand who wasn't like, there's no repercussion.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
You can't get the money back, there's nothing like.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
There's a lot of the only bad thing I love
the Internet, but it made everybody feel like they had
a right to an opinion and to tell people all
sorts of things, and a lot of the times is wrong.
So just try and find somebody. See if you can
pay for a consultation. If you feel good about it,
for it, but just understand the price structuring.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Just try it.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
It's going to depend on the complexity. But like I said,
most people don't need anything complex.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, I mean, and you I'll just learned something to
even for you. Like again, like you could, you could
set it up so that you can do it yourself
and you don't necessarily have to call an attorney every time.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Right every time? You should not.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I don't want anybody to Oh, I bought a new house,
what do I do? You know how to put it
in there? Because I'm going to tell you beforehand. As
long as you're not changing the actual document, you shouldn't
have to go to them every time and pay for that.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
You should be able to do it yourself.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Okay, okay, Well look, if you need somebody to do this,
which I would definitely recommend everybody looks into it, you
should definitely consider Amber and the Saunders Firm. So if
they do want to reach out to get more information,
how can they get in contact with you and learn
more about this process?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Our website is Thesaundersfirm dot com sa U n d
ers who. A phone number is six seven eight six
eight zero four three three six, or you can I'm
on Instagram. Mostly I'm trying to do better and get
on TikTok, but that's the lord's work. My instagram is
ask Amber Saunders, okay, and then I can point them
in the right direction and go from there.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
But there's plenty of information.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
There's other attorneys here, just you know, talk see who's
a good fits like Dayton check them out.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, see absolutely how it.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Works, Absolutely well. Amber, Thank you so much for pulling
up shared a lot of great information. Y'all. Please take
this information and do something with it. And make sure
again we're not doing go fund me. Y'all were taking
care of our business. Okay, we're handling business in twenty
twenty five and.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Beyond, nobody else gonna handle it for us.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Ain't that right? Well? Thank y'all. Thank you so much
for listening to y'all. And that's the pod we out.
You've been listening to button Nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler. Got comments feedback? Want to be on the show,
Send us an email today at hello at butternomics dot com.
Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia at iHeartMedia by
Casey Pegram, with marketing support from Queen and Nikki. Music
(41:48):
provided by mister Hanky. If you haven't already hit that
subscribe button and never missed an episode, and be sure
to follow us on all our social platforms at butter
dot Atl. Listen to Better Nomics on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Mm hmm
The only thing my grandmother had. The only thing my
great grandmother had was that house. It doesn't matter if
it's just that I think that we have to do
a better job of not comparing, like everything looks flashy
and shiny on social media. The first thing is that
I really don't have a lot. I don't care what
you have. You need to realize that it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So why do you think that what you have is
not important.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Enough to protect? That doesn't make any sense. You worked
for it's yours.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Make sure nobody's taking it.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Everybody. Welcome to another episode of butter NOMIGX. I'm your host,
Brandon Butler, found in CEO of Butter atl And. Today
we got a special guests up in here and we
go way back like we go back you know again.
This is the thing, man, y'all think I'll be playing around, man,
I got deep relationships in this city. I know people,
and I've known people for a while. It's not a gate,
(00:55):
it's not a game. And I got my friend, my
homegrown Miss Amber Saunders is esquired up at une. Amber
Saunders esquire, how you doing man good? I'm doing great.
I'm doing great, so real quick, you know what Before
we get into that, We've been doing some a little
bit different here on button nomics lately. Right. I usually
(01:16):
have people introduce themselves, like you know, who are you
and all this kind of stuff. But what I've actually
been doing lately is I'm just asking chat Cheapt. So
I'm gonna tell you what chat Cheapt said about you
when I said, do you know who? Amber Saunders is
of the Saunders Firm.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Okay, you ready for this?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Interesting? Okay?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Amber C. Saunders is the principal attorney at the Saunders
Firm in Atlanta based law practice, specializing in the state
planning and business law. She holds a Juris doctor degree
from Atlanta's John Marshall Law School and an LLM from
Emory University School of Law class of twenty twenty one.
Before practice in law, Ambers founded in Richmond Prepp, an
(01:57):
alternative test prep company, and authored Ahead of the Curve
What Parents Need to Know to Get their Kids Into College.
Her firm officer services in the state planning, a state administration,
and business law, aiming to help clients and protect generational wealth. Now,
my question for you is is that accurate? And did
it leave anything out?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm about to copy it. I like that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
You like that?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I like you know, you didn't give too much.
It didn't give too much and gave just an.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
You know, I've had a couple people because some people
a coup. People were like, you know, it's closed. They
left a couple of things out. But I think you know,
if you feel like that's kind of directionally on point,
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, it's more, but like it didn't it didn't need
to read out my resume, So it's all right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I like that now again just for a little context,
and we met long, long, long time ago, long time
ago of coming out of twenty ten? Was that it Yeah, yep,
it was around twenty ten. It was after I know,
I had won that Black Enterprise pitch competition and then
we got put in the the one hundred ue a
(03:00):
program that was a we're supposed to cut us some checks.
Did you ever get your check?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I got a little bit of mine. I got a
little bit of mine, but you know I ain't get
all of it.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I think I did. Yeah, mine was at Justin's. Yeah,
that's where I did mine. Okay, that's what it was. Well,
we know I was at Justin's. There were some other
connections in there back in the day.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know, yeah, who knows.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I don't know where all those folks are now, but
that was when that's when you were doing in Richmond prep, right,
that was when you were getting all that stuff going.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yep, that's when I started it. I think I got mine.
Does that helped me with all of that stuff?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, that's when I had the website shop. I remember
I had to fight them to get a little bit
of my money and then they told me at a
certain point they were like, well Brandy, you can't really
so just for those that don't know, so we got
putting this accelerator program. I don't care. There are a
lot of business now, so we can say what every
want to say. We gotta put this accelerator program. I
think they promised both of us, Like was it one
hundred grand? It was ten? Okay, I know it was
(04:02):
some numbers on there. Yeah, it was ten grand or something.
And you know, I thought when I won the competition
they gave me a check, I was like, all right,
where my money at? And then the yeah, I took
the picture and then they were like, well, actually get
it over time, you get it over time, but we've
actually subcontracted this out to another company. In order for
(04:24):
you to get your money. Now, you got to go
through this business accelerator program. And at that time, I
was doing the website shop. I had a chain of
web design stores and like malls and brick and mortar,
and I remember I was just like, why you got
me in meetings with people asking how to build design
a logo, like I'm makinggn logos, I'm making stuff like
I'm a little bit further ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Then.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I remember we got to a certain point and they
were when it was finally time to get the money,
they were like, well, in order to get the money,
you got to basically like write a request or a
proposal for why you need the money. This is again,
this is probably three or four months after we actually won.
And then on top of that, I remember they told
(05:04):
me that you can't ask for the money all at
once because other people need their money too.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Mm.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I don't think that happened to me, didn't happen to you? No.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I feel like I got mine all at once, because
I think I was one of the first.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh you you went through and got it.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I think they gave me my I think, I mean,
I still had to go through the program, but I
don't remember having to do a request. I remember other
people having to ask for it when we were going
through the power, but I don't remember having to do that.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, and then I remember I had to send a
very pointed email to the oh y'all, to the good
people at Black Enterprise, and I got my I got
I got some more of my money from them directly,
you know. So it was it was a mess.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You were causing a rucket.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I was causing all kinds of ruckets because I was like, yeah,
I need my money, all right right now, y'all gave
me this big old check.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I had that big check. Took this picture.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
I think. I think I threw that check away a
couple of years ago. But I used to take that
check with me to stuff. I remember I went to
another pitch competition. I brought the check with me to
another pitch competition one time, like I was like, you
know what, if I ain't getting this money, I'm gonna
use this check to get me some more money. So
imagine that. Imagine me walking to a pitch competition to pitchbok.
Somebody else with somebody else's check and then being like,
(06:15):
y'all should give me this because I already won this one,
Like I know what I'm doing. I was wild out.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Back in the day. Oh that's fun. We've come a
long way since then, though, we've come a long way.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Look at us now, Okay, they'll doing this, They'll still
running doing businesses, trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Trying to figure it out. Now, tell me now again
after that, tell me now what is the stist from
what exactly you're working on?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Now?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Chat chet to us a little bit, but now you
can tell.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Us a business and a state planning. The bulk of
the practice is a state planning because I just love
doing that. I think that it is really important. I
don't think there are enough people who do it, and
so that's my favorite kind a lot of practice. And
I wouldn't have thought so because it was born and
I don't know what in law school it was terrible.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
No, what led you down that path? How did you
get involved in it?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
My grandmother was the only person that I really knew
who did any estate planning.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And she did it. She like used to go.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Meet with her friends on Sunday and pick stocks and
she got long term care, insurance, health care directive, power, attorney,
all this stuff. So when she had a stroke and
her dementia got bet, it was really easy for my
mother and my uncle to take care of her. And
when she passed away, the property just was in their
name and there were no issues.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
But then we saw all these.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Other people in my family who who folks was cutting
up And then the last person that died during her
time here is my uncle and my mother had to
go to court for like three years and some change,
and so it was like, well, why didn't y'all do
this when Grandma did it?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It didn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And finally my mother was able to sell the house
and that money that the house was originally my great grandmother's,
her grandmother.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
It helped her pay for stuff when she was sick.
It helped all of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And so I'm like, if just one house can do that,
imagine if all of us are setting up things for
our children, and yeah, you know, it can just eat.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I mean, we wouldn't have to do pitch competitions.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
If there was some money through some money or somewhere
that might make it easier for you to start the business.
You don't have to go big banks or try and
do all this stuff because you have something there that
will allow you to be able to start something and
figure it out. So I just want to evangelize that
as much as possible, because I think we have a
thing in our community about making folks grind for stuff
all the time or like, well I worked for it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
They need to work. What help them? Help them a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Helped them out, help them out.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
It's interesting because I mean, again, I've worked with a
lot of people and one thing I've just again noticed
and realized over the years, especially in basically non black communities,
like get a lot of wealth comes from insurance and
passing down assets. I mean, don't even get me started
on the whole like big borrow and die and you
know all that kind of stuff, right, But like I
don't I think the people kind of missed that critical step.
(08:46):
Like I have a friend of mine. I remember he
started his business. He recently sold his company for millions
of dollars, and I used to work with him, and
I remember he had an uncle that passed away and
his uncle left him like a couple hundred grand and
that's what he used to fund his business, right, and
so I think getting people missed that step, and like
we were even talking about before, I'm like, look, gofund
me is not it should not be your option, right,
(09:08):
I mean, look, I understand stuff happens, but like go
fund me should not be the default way that we're
gonna put some of y'all on the ground. On top
of that, you're still not leaving anything for anybody. So
when it comes to a state plan and a lot
of people think it's only for wealthy people, people that
have money, you know, when did you realize that people
in our community especially were kind of missing out on
this critical.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Step because I thought back to childhood in life and
I don't even think i've ever heard a black person
say somebody died. They'll be like going up yonder a transition,
right got their wings. I mean, it's all kind of
and it's like if you don't even say the word,
you're not even dealing with it, Like you won't you're
not even thinking about this might happen to you, what
(09:48):
I need to plan for. We don't even want to ooh,
don't talk about it or something like that, or I
mean there's just and I don't want to call it
superstition because it's not like, oh, there's a black cat
walking by, But it's like we act like if you
talk about it, it's going to happen faster. And it's
not just us, like there are other communities in the
in the Latino community.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
People don't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Then like they're not planning for we're not talking about it,
and I think we leave our children, our community at
a disadvantage just period.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So that's one thing.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And then two we think we have time, like we
literally like, Okay, I'm gonna do it later.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I got too much other stuff to do.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Why am I going to sit here and start talking
about Well, if I'm in the hospital, this is what
I want to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I don't want to do that. Yeah, like people just
will avoid that at all costs.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
But you can see examples of I mean celebrities and
see how it can You know you don't you want
to tell people the same way you want to run
your business or you want to plan your vacation.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You want to plan what happens in the case of
an emergency.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Okay, so tell people if you don't do this, because again,
like here's the thing. Look, I hope everybody's here for
a long time. I wish all health and happiness and
wealth and all these things. But again, the reality is
we're all not going to be here. But if you
don't do these things, if you don't put these things
in place, what will happen.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
So there's a few things. I mean, I think that
there are simple stories. One of one that I think
is in the news that people might remember is take
Off dying. And he didn't have a relationship with his father,
so he's not married, he doesn't have any kids. His
mother would get it, his mother and father would get it.
His father didn't raise him, according to reports. So now
(11:29):
this person is getting half of a twenty six million
dollar estate, and it is probably going to continue to
get money because there are royalties that would be.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Going from what all the songs that they had.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So now this person who didn't raise you private and
pay child support, didn't do whatever, gets half of your
stuff instead of your mother. But of course he was
twenty something years old. He didn't think he was gonna die, right,
So there's no plan not to mention the amount that
the estate is going to have to pay in taxes,
Aretha Franklin had a special need son. They're looking for
stuff on napkins and things like that. That, or it
(12:01):
can be as simple as siblings are arguing because whatever
beef they had growing up is going to show up
when someone passes away. Or the thing that I see
a lot is with blended families. People get married, they
have second marriages, and there's money and things that they
want for their children to be able to have, but
they didn't take care of it. So then the spouse
(12:21):
gets part of it. And if something happens to that
spouse and their children get it. And the person who
died doesn't want this other person's children to get their stuff.
They want their children to But you don't sit down
and go through that because it means you have to
have uncomfortable conversations.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yea, and we do it all the time.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
My grandparents did not get a divorce until they both
were about to marry somebody else.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So if they had died but they were in.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
A relationship with someone else or had other kids, then
your ex gets everything. Because you don't want to sit
there and have a conversation about it, It just doesn't.
We can you can cause considerable harm to your family.
It can go through probate court if someone opens up
in a state, But if they don't and it's just there,
then you're living in the house, Grandma's house. Which is
(13:02):
why we have so many issues with airs property and
we can't you know, rehab or get mortgages on or
do things like that because it's not properly changed over.
And I mean, I don't even have a good reason
why we don't do it. Some of it I think
is we don't know, but a lot of it I
think is we just avoid it.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, Now, just for definition's sake, because I think sometimes
again language matters, words matter, And you know, when you
hear a state, you think some big you know, I
think about like Dallas show.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Dallas white fence and you have to go down a
couple acres before you get to the house.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Right Jr. You And you know what I'm saying, some
big But again, like what is the definition of an estate?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Just in general, anything that's in your name, that you own,
your shirt is a part of your state.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Anything that you have is a part of your estate.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And a state planning means that essentially you saying what
happens to those things if something happens to you and
what happens to your body or to your bank account.
So with the healthcare directive or a living will, you're saying,
if I can't make these decisions, this is.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
What I want you to do.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's dictating what happens with everything in your life, including yourself.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Okay, okay. Now, the other big word that we know
you see anytime you turn on social media, anytime you
look around, is generational wealth. Generational wealth. Got to have
generational wealth, you know. And look, a lot of us
are first generation, if we're just being totally honest, you
know a lot of I was having a conversation at
a location in Atlanta, very high up in the city,
(14:32):
and I was, you know, sitting this table with a
bunch of people that were definitely multi generational, and I
was explaining to them. I said, you know what, I'm
I'm first generation. I'm figuring this thing out too. You know,
I'm glad that I've got where I'm at. But like again,
like I don't have didn't nobody you know, my parents
are still here, thankfully, But like I said, nobody passed
me now any money or anything like that. But like
when it comes generational wealth, How do you define that
(14:54):
based on what you do?
Speaker 1 (14:56):
By definition, generational wealth means this generation is passing something
down to the next. You can't have generational wealth without
making a plan to transition it, because that means you
just have wealth. It's not generational if it can't go.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah to the next group.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So when people are saying we want generational wealth, they
really mean when I hear it, they really mean, let
me just make a lot of money. They're not talking
about how am I going to leave it for my children.
That's the part that they missed in the conversation.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
You know, when people talk about the state planning and all,
and you know, in generational wealth, a lot of times
I guess they just think it starts to just really
just writing a will, Like is it more than that?
Are there other misconceptions that you kind of deal with
when you're talking about a state planning, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Because it's you have to be more thoughtful than that.
Having a will isn't enough. I've seen too many times
that so you have a will, it has to go
to probate court. Probate court, they say the purpose of
probate court is is to make sure the will is
valid and follows the proper structure, and then to distribute
the assets. But in all honesty, the purpose to probate
court is to preserve your assets for the benefit of
(16:10):
your creditors, because they don't want people to die and
owe the hospital, owe all these people money and then
give stuff to their children and not pay these debts off.
So it is opening up, for example, the estate of
Amber Saunders, and if I had if once that death
certificate issues, my family or whoever is going to start
getting letters that says.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Oh, my condolence is for your loss. Who's going to
pay this bill?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Right? And so they're waiting to see if someone opens
in a state, they want you to notify them, and
there's ways for them to be able to see whether
or not, and then they're going to file a claim.
And so before the will can even work and give
something to your children or whomever else, all those creditors
have to be paid first.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Taxes have to be paid for whatever income you made
that year.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
All of that is to pay off all of that debt,
and then whatever's left over goes according to your will.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
And so there are ways to get around that.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So when people just want to have a will, or
they think, you know, TV does a disservice because they'll say, oh,
we're going to do a reading of the will. It's
like that don't matter because it's still got to go
to court and go through the process. So what you're
reading it for, you're not gonna get anything until it
goes through probate. Right, and now, if they were doing
a reading of the trust maybe or something like that,
like a trust will allow you a revocable living trust
(17:20):
will allow you to skip all of that, so your
trust would be the beneficiary of your bank accounts or
whatever you want to make to go inside of the trust,
you can change the deed to your house the warranty
ded to put the trust on there so that when
you pass, there's nothing to open up in a state
for it doesn't have to go through that process. So
then whoever you designate as the person in charge the trustee,
(17:42):
they can go the next day and sell whatever as
soon as they get the death certificate or whatever they
need to show that you are no longer there, then
they can follow your wishes, take care of everything, and
they don't.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Have to go get a GoFundMe.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah now, yeah, you just brought up another term too,
a trust.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Again.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I hear that thrown around on social media all day.
I keep on hearing this is what the wealthy people do.
They put their stuff in the trust. And you do
this and so get what is a trust?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So it's an agreement that you make. Essentially, you're the
grantor meaning the person who created it. In these terms,
I mean whatever, You the person who made it. Right,
You make the trust, You decide who the trustee is.
Most of the time, you're going to be the trustee
of your revocable living trust. And it's an agreement that
you're making during your life to give these things over
(18:29):
to this trust and say what is supposed to happen,
How your children receive it, if they're allowed to sell
property do You're just saying what you want to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
There's a revocable and an irrevocable revocable you can change
as many times as you want. The mortgage companies not
going to have a problem if you put your property
in it, because it's still attached to you. The EI
in is your Social Security number. You don't have to
file any taxes. It's not like it's a separate entity.
When you have an irrevocable trust, you are giving all
(18:59):
of whatever assets you want to put in there, you're
giving it away. Once you put it in there, you
cannot take it back. It does not belong to you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
You're not the trustee. Most of the time. You cannot
be the trustee at all. You can't change the terms.
That's why it's irrevocable. You cannot revoke it.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's it. When you do that, you might.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Be subject to gift tax if you're unless you're below
the exemption. And that's where people are like, oh, we
want asset protection during their life. Whatever these assets are
they're putting in there, it's protected from creditors under certain
conditions all of that. Most people don't need that in
all honesty, because we have this paranoia about, oh, I
(19:38):
want to protect my assets from creditors.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Who is coming to get you?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Like, and if you put things in there knowing someone's
coming to get you, it can be undone each state
there's a uniform, like I can't even remember the name
of it now because because I'm about to tell you
it's probably why I don't remember. But essentially, if if
you know of a creditor and things like that, and
you're trying to hide stuff, they can undo the transfer,
fraudulent transfer anyway, they'd consider that. So it just depends
(20:02):
on the circumstance under which you're transferring it. But it's
going to pay higher taxes, plays the highest tax rate
on any gains.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Things like that.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Depending on the circumstance, depending on how much money you have,
depending on what your profession is, you might need it,
but in general most of us do not. So when
people are calling my office saying they need a rock
a fella trust, I'm like, do you have Rockefeller money?
Because for what like it doesn't even make any sense
for you to make it that complicated for your family.
Just make sure it doesn't go to probate court and
(20:32):
tell them, teach them how to continue what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But you don't. Necessarily it becomes irrevocable on your family anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
So like, once you die as the grant or the
person who creates it, nobody else can change the terms.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Okay, so they are stuck.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
The same way it would be if you created one
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Then so you can you really have the power to
craft it the way you want to make them or
to help them. You know, if you teach them the
right thing, they'll be able to preserve it and put
more things in and do all of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, So estate planning is essentially coming up with a
plan for your state and figuring out what types of
things you need. Do you need a trust, Do you
need a revocal, irrevocable trust. Do you need a will?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Like?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Like?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's basically it comes down that always people just mix
all this stuff together.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And I mean and that people will want to land.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All of that stuff is a part of a state
planning because the land of property, all that stuff is
a part of your estate.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
So that's just a general name for it.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
You might just want asset protection, you might just want
I mean, they're a trust where you just put life
insurance in there because you don't want it a part
of your taxable estate.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So it'll be an irrevocable life insurance trust.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Depending on your financial situation, how much money is there,
what you want to accomplish or determine what kind of
trust or what kind of things you might need. But
for most of us, we don't need things that are
that complicated. The real thought process needs to go into
what terms do we want to put in there? How
do we make sure because we might be we're the
first generation probably for a lot of people making the
(21:58):
most money. So how do we want to make sure
that our children or our beneficiaries, whoever you're leaving it to.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Don't blow it all?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
How do you make sure that it grows or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
You're gonna have to lay a blueprint out because again
you're the first person who did it.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Who knows.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Maybe hopefully you're teaching them. If not, you're gonna have
to give them some guidance in the document to make
sure that they don't blow all of it.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Now, one thing you hear too when you talk to
people is just so at least I know I hear
when I talk to people is like I don't have
enough money or enough assets to have an a state plan? Like,
what's the reality behind that? Is that true?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Nah?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
If you have anything? I mean, for my grandmother, it
was just a house.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
That house that my grandmother had, that was my great
grandmother's was bought I don't know in the sixties.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I think my mother sold it.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Finally, in twenty twenty one, my mother was diagnosed with cancer,
March fourteenth, twenty twenty four. That house and that money
is what made her not have to work from my
great grandmother's house, so we don't have to be nothing
but that. But again they had a plan for it
and it was paid off. Sometimes people will just leave
(23:04):
someone a house. But if your income is gone and
you don't have enough life insurance, then can they pay
the mortgage? Right? Like, you know, you have to sit
there and think about that, because if you're the breadwinner
and you're leaving this person the house and then they
have to they can't maintain that lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
You really need to have a plan.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
You need to talk to a financial advisor to see
how much insurance you need or how long will they
be able to maintain that lifestyle. If you're not there
and that income's not there. It just requires some thought.
You shouldn't just leave it. And they not really know
what it means to be a They can be a
home buyer, but they're not a homeowner. They don't know
that taxes are a part of it, so then taxes
don't get paid all of those things.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
It just requires a little bit more work.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, Now a lot of people they might think this
all sounds. You know, they might be hesitanting because they
feel like it's expensive or you know, they can't afford it.
But like when it comes to just again like the
long term value of doing this plan in versus the risks,
Like how do you kind of communicate that to people?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, I mean, I'm gonna keep it a buck what
anybody who calls it they don't need it, I'm just
gonna tell them now I'll do this, like don't spend
this money. I feel like this is God's work, like
helping people do this because this can really change. If
things go the way they are, We're not gonna have
I mean, our community is not going to have a
lot of money, and what they said twenty fifty, it'll
be like zero.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So we have to like do something.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
So I would rather, you know, tell people like, hey,
just update the beneficiaries. Do this if you're not trying
to do any you know, in depth planning. But they
need to just have a consultation. It's worth the money
to just talk to somebody and figure out what you
should do and then you can.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Plan for it.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
If you feel like it's too much, then okay, what
can you do right now? Get a health care directive,
power of attorney and get it well. If you want
to plan for a trust later, then plan for the
trust later.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You don't have to do it all in one sitting.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But the alternative is for the state to decide what
to do with your stuff, for your family to potentially
be in conflict because you didn't write down what was
supposed to happen, and you trust them that your children
are not gonna act a fool when you know they
are or shout out Grandpa, like we went to this funeral,
I found I had another uncle.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
That happens.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
And so it's like, if you don't care about your family,
just say that, because essentially that's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
They can fend for themselves. I'm going to be gone.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You don't think enough of them to make it easier.
And also think about the fact that they're going to
be grieving you. You're gone, so you want them to
have to handle your business and deal with your mess
and they can't even process the fact that you're not
there anymore to be there with them to sort through
for them to figure out what to do, like just
do them a solid.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
So somebody's hearing this and they realize they do need
to do a state planning. Like, what's the first thing
they should do. What's the first step they should take.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I'd say, and that the.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
First step is not just going on social media and.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Don't listen to all of those things. I would tell
people just go into it with an open mind because
I get a lot of I've talked to other states,
and we get people who are calling, and we have
to undo what people are saying on social media, so
people will call. I had somebody call me and tell
me they need a family office. I said, sys, how
much money you're trying to put in there? And she
(26:10):
was like, I'm building a trillion dollar company. Do you
have any money now? No, so don't spend it. That
doesn't make any sense, since like, what are you talking about.
You can't pay all of these people. And I had
to try and explain what it was. But she heard
somebody say that that's what rich people have, and it's like,
but you are right, I mean, And so it ends
up being a lot of work trying to undo some
(26:31):
of the So first I would just say, doing inventory
your assets, because that's one of the things that a
lot of people don't know what they have, so they
don't realize how much they have because they haven't really
looked at you had this many accounts, you have some crypto,
you have a house, you have it. They might have
five fifty thousand or ten thousand dollars insurance policies.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Maybe they kept it up, maybe it's term or not.
Just look at everything.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Just sit down and so that when you're going to
talk to somebody and you fill out whatever intake form
they have, you can say, let me show you mine,
and then they can kind of give you some guidance
on what to do. Most lawyers will be honest enough
and say, m M, you don't need a trust.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Just do this.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And you have to really think about what you want
to be done with it, because there are some people
who don't want I mean, we've had significant land loss
in our community. Do you really want them to be
able to sell it? If you don't, and you want
them to keep it? Do they know what to do
with it? If they don't, are you going to give
them some instructions in there? Like? You just have to
think through it, whether it's difficult or not. That's the
(27:31):
biggest blessing you let them just follow the steps, give
them the steps, give them the game.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I think for a lot of people to you know,
I mean there's one not known, but there could also
just be I don't know if it's embarrassment or just hesitation,
because yeah, like sometimes you do have to sit down
and look at the numbers sometimes and like, yeah, you
might not have a one hundred million dollars in the bank, right,
But like, how do you deal with people that are
just you know, apprehensive to even do this because they're
(28:05):
embarrassed when they actually put it down and say, you
know what, I'm actually not worth five million dollars. I'm
worth you know, five thousand dollars. But you still you
can still do this kind of work though, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I mean, you can't build anything if you don't if
you don't even have visibility, right, So you have to
This can be a starting point for you all to
make for you to make a chance, for you to
see this and say, okay, let me protect what I
have and then now I'm gonna come back and get
an amendment in three years because I've built more once
I saw what I had. But it just requires you
to have some sort of and it's you have to
(28:38):
just have the little courage.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
I mean, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, But
you're not laughing at nobody, or you're not judging nobody
if they coming to you and they don't, and you know,
because again they got to start somewhere.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And I mean again, my my, the only thing my
grandmother had, the only thing my great grandmother had was
that house.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And it was important to us because they worked for it.
My great grandmother was a maid.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I don't know how she in Boston of all places
that you know what I mean, and bought these houses
on her own. It doesn't matter if it's just that,
Like I think that we have to do a better
job of not comparing. Like everything looks flashy and shiny
on social media. Yeah right, and so we're compared. Oh well,
(29:19):
the first thing is that I really don't have a lot.
I don't care what you have. You need to realize
that it's worth it. So why do you think that
what you have is not important enough to protect? That
doesn't make any sense. You worked for it, it's yours.
Make sure nobody's taking it.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, and again like these are your assets. Again, you
want to make sure that whatever it is, you will
to make sure that you can you have those and
you're not dealing with it now. A lot of people
that are entrepreneurs also listen to this podcast, and you
probably deal with those two, especially in the state like Atlanta. Like,
what are just some specific things that entrepreneurs should consider
when they're getting ready to go down this path of
a state planning man?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
What happens to the business if something happens to you?
Can the business operate without you? If you are gone?
Does it fall apart? And if it does, what are
they supposed to do do with it? Like I have
clients who is a couple and the business is in
her name because they get designated as a minority all
this other stuff. But if something happens to her, he
(30:15):
loses some of those designations because it's tied to her.
Like do you all have a plan on what to do?
Do you have for example, key Man insurance? I refer
a lot of my clients to advisors to get something
like that. So that if you have a partner, a
business partner who you're not related to in any way,
do they really want to be in partnership with your spouse?
If you die, probably not, So you might need a
(30:38):
policy that pays for that interest that you have in
the business so that they're not having to deal with
your spouse. I had a client who was it was
three brothers. One of the brothers died. They had key
man insurance, but they talked to her and when he
died about ten years ago, they decided to keep the
money and grow the business and let her have an interest.
(31:00):
She is terrorizing them now she wants her son to
be a part Like they've never been involved in the business.
The two surviving brothers have been taking care of everything,
and now this person wants documents and they want to
be a part of They want to force their son
to be able to be in the business.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Who never like it's.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
A nightmare because they didn't just pay it out and
follow the blueprint, get some money from somewhere else, let
this lady be gone.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
They didn't think she was going to do that.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
They thought she would just allow and they were like, well, Amber,
can I just pay the original amount?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Nope, the business is worth more.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Now you're not going to be able to just give
her that policy because the agreement wasn't with her.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
You all let it go.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
So like they're not planning for what happens if someone's gone,
and then a lot of business owners need to just
come up with some succession planning. If the business is
supposed to be able to operate without you, what does
that plan look like?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, who's going to who are you grooming.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
In the business to take over the CEO spot or
whatever you're doing so that it's not tied to you?
One if you want to sell it, because a lot
of folks kids don't want their businesses. It's not like
people are passing them on to children. So who is
going to take it? Are the children or is the
plan to sell it or is the plan to make
sure that they can eat they're getting distributions or something
(32:11):
like that. But you have to plan that out because
otherwise they're gonna be doing a fire sale and selling
all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, Now you said something's there about key Man insurance,
and that's something I've heard that Tom, I've forgotten all
about that specifically. Are there other interesting or useful types
of insurance like that that people should also just in general?
Like you know, I'm I'm just curious, right, like, what
are some other unique types of insurance or you know,
things people should consider in that space.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I definitely would say everyone needs key man.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
If you have a partner or you know, just figure
out how to make sure to get people out of
the way if you need it too. I don't think
I think people underestimate the value of long term care insurance.
I would just let the business pay for it if
you don't want to pay it for it, But like,
you need long term care because the cost of senior
living if you don't have all of that stuff is
a lot. And the reason why we didn't have to
(32:59):
put my grandmother in the home home, it's because she
paid for that. So a nurse came to her home
every day and bathed her and fed her and did
all of those things to make it easier for my uncle,
who was the main caregiver. People need to have that.
There's insurance for everything. I mean, when my mother got diagnosed,
I went and called Aflak the duck and got some
cancer insurance. There's insurance for everything, and I didn't even
(33:20):
know they had that until one of my clients told
me so. I mean, if you talked to an advisor
or you can find some insurance for a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, really didn't. Yeah I didn't know about that. Yeah,
I've been under the AFFLAC headquarters a couple of times.
You know, you know, you know this is crazy, just
as totally as in a side on afflack. Have you
ever been down to Columbus to like afflet headquarters. So
the CEO of AFLAC at the headquarters, they have their big,
huge office right and then next to the office they
(33:49):
have a huge like parking deck. He built an Italian
villa on the top. You can look it up on Google.
A huge mansion Italian villa on the top of the
parking deck, direct next to athletic headquarters. He said he
didn't want to have to walk far to get home.
It's a different kind of money. I'm just trying to
tell folks.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
That strowed off. You want to be that close.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
To work, he said, he want to be that close
to work. He would work that much where. Literally you
can look it up. I've seen it. I've actually been
up there before.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
So they need Joe.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
You got to just not going to excuse me, sir,
if you come to work, you just I know that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Now I'm gonna go look it up.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Total total random fact, total random fact. Sir, Please, if
you could tell every listener that we have, just like,
what's one thing they can do today to start protecting
their future and thinking about it?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
What would it be, have conversations with their loved ones
about it, what they're thinking, what they would want to do.
Because I think also the planning doesn't have to be
a singular thing where you're just doing it yourself because
it's for your family. Really, estate plan is not for
you because you'll be gone anyway, right, but it's for them.
(34:54):
So talk to them kind of about, you know, whether
or not they want to participate in the process.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
What does that look like? An example of?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
And I mean I keep referencing my mother because it
was really the first time I had to go through
it myself when she was sick and I had to
tell her like I don't want to pull to plus
somebody else has to be I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I'm an only child. Were gonna find a friend because.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I don't want to be the person like I'm fine
if someone else does it, but I don't want to
tell any money to take my mother off the machine.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
M I'm not about to live with that. I don't
want to you be in my living room.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
For ten years, like James, however long they had, you
gonna be here with me.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
But I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
But without having that conversation, she's gonna put my name
on everything because I'm the only child. Listen, let me
tell you what my capacity is and what it's not.
And so until we sat there and had that conversation,
I probably would have been and she'd have been mad.
She'd have been mad coming back trying to haunt me.
But I just know myself. I know I don't want
to do it. You need to start having conversations with
your children, with your parents because old black people gonna
(35:57):
tell you it's none of your business and they don't
like So the easier you can make it for yourself
when it's time for you to take care of your parents, Like,
these conversations need to have be had before there's an emergency.
So I would just start with, Hey, what do you
want me to do? I just want to make sure
I don't do something wrong, I don't mess up. Can
you just help me out because I'm writing up my
(36:18):
own I just need to know. And if you make
your parents feel like they're helping you as opposed to
you taking something from them.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Oh you can't. My grandma was mad when we said
she couldn't drive.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, you turned in oncoming traffic, man, Yeah, so you can't,
but she didn't want that freedom taken away. Don't make
them feel like you're taking something away from them. Make
them feel like they're helping you, and they're more likely
to do it. I don't want to make the wrong decision,
do something wrong. I need you to help me and
write this down. Maybe that'll open up the conversation. But
you got to just start talking to people, because we
don't like communicating.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, no, I mean yes, it's a topic that we
definitely in our community we kind of avoid. And then
when it comes up, like you said, you're dealing with
a million other things. And you know, again, people a
lot of times think is just enough to have life
insurance in place, And I mean, I hope you people
will definitely kind of getting that part. But again, there's
other parts to it, because like you said before, if not,
what you don't want to do is certain having the
(37:10):
government and you know, and everybody getting involved and figuring
out how you're gonna split things up. When you're not here,
because like to your point, I mean, I've seen it
many times where you know, somebody passes away and they
have enough if they have a policy, you know, now
you got even the family like arguing about all right,
we're gonna split up. I mean I've been the situation
where I've literally seen the family argue over splitting up
what was left, and I mean everybody got like two
(37:30):
hundred bucks.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Right, It's like you and hope is not a strategy.
I hope they'll do the right thing. That don't work,
Like I hear people, well, I just hope that they will.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
How about let's just give them some instructions that they
have to follow instead of just hoping. We have to
do more than that, because if you want your family
to stay together, be together any of those things, the
likelihood is that they will fight over two hundred dollars
is way larger than you think.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Absolutely. Now, one thing, I I'm sure people also kind
of want to just in general, how much is this
kind of thing cost? Right, and again you don't have
to be like overly specific, but again we're talking about
tens of thousands of dollars to get this stuff done,
or like like how much does it cost, like just
the average person that doesn't have, you know, again, millions
of bucks or like huge assets and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
It's gonna cost you a couple thousand dollars at least.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
It depends on I would try and find an attorney
that does flat fees because I'm not a fan of billing.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
You don't want to call.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
You don't want to feel like you're calling them, and
then you're gonna get a bill for ninety dollars for
fifteen minutes because you're gonna stop asking questions, right, and
so it deters And part of you going through that
process is for you to get some education and know
how to operate. I want, at the end of the day,
anybody who leaves my office to know how to put
assets into trust without me.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You shouldn't have to. Now, if you want to call,
that's fine. You shouldn't have to. This is your stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
You should know how to maneuver it and know how
to do all those things. So through the process, we
want to educate you. So I would look for someone
who has a flat fees so that you don't have
to worry about that and you can get it as
much information as you can, but if you need to,
there's some people who might need to do it yourself.
Start somewhere. I'm not a I mean, I think I
don't like templated stuff. I don't like you not sitting
(39:11):
down and just talking about your family.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
And going through those things.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
But if you have to do that in the beginning,
I'd rather you have something than nothing. Go to one
of the websites, get something, do that, but don't go
to the people on the interweb and get people who
are non lawyers selling you stuff, and then it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I've had to had people give somebody who.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Was non attorney person in another state like six grand.
You ain't somebody six grand who wasn't like, there's no repercussion.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
You can't get the money back, there's nothing like.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
There's a lot of the only bad thing I love
the Internet, but it made everybody feel like they had
a right to an opinion and to tell people all
sorts of things, and a lot of the times is wrong.
So just try and find somebody. See if you can
pay for a consultation. If you feel good about it,
for it, but just understand the price structuring.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Just try it.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
It's going to depend on the complexity. But like I said,
most people don't need anything complex.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, I mean, and you I'll just learned something to
even for you. Like again, like you could, you could
set it up so that you can do it yourself
and you don't necessarily have to call an attorney every time.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Right every time? You should not.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
I don't want anybody to Oh, I bought a new house,
what do I do? You know how to put it
in there? Because I'm going to tell you beforehand. As
long as you're not changing the actual document, you shouldn't
have to go to them every time and pay for that.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
You should be able to do it yourself.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Okay, okay, Well look, if you need somebody to do this,
which I would definitely recommend everybody looks into it, you
should definitely consider Amber and the Saunders Firm. So if
they do want to reach out to get more information,
how can they get in contact with you and learn
more about this process?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Our website is Thesaundersfirm dot com sa U n d
ers who. A phone number is six seven eight six
eight zero four three three six, or you can I'm
on Instagram. Mostly I'm trying to do better and get
on TikTok, but that's the lord's work. My instagram is
ask Amber Saunders, okay, and then I can point them
in the right direction and go from there.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
But there's plenty of information.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
There's other attorneys here, just you know, talk see who's
a good fits like Dayton check them out.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, see absolutely how it.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Works, Absolutely well. Amber, Thank you so much for pulling
up shared a lot of great information. Y'all. Please take
this information and do something with it. And make sure
again we're not doing go fund me. Y'all were taking
care of our business. Okay, we're handling business in twenty
twenty five and.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Beyond, nobody else gonna handle it for us.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Ain't that right? Well? Thank y'all. Thank you so much
for listening to y'all. And that's the pod we out.
You've been listening to button Nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler. Got comments feedback? Want to be on the show,
Send us an email today at hello at butternomics dot com.
Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia at iHeartMedia by
Casey Pegram, with marketing support from Queen and Nikki. Music
(41:48):
provided by mister Hanky. If you haven't already hit that
subscribe button and never missed an episode, and be sure
to follow us on all our social platforms at butter
dot Atl. Listen to Better Nomics on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Mm hmm
Host
Brandon Butler
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