September 15, 2021 • 43 mins
Quicksand? More like Kindofquicksand. And a massacre.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
School of Humans. Hello, welcome to another episode of cataver Gals.
This is the podcast. Yes, I am sure you know
and have heard of us, because we are famous anyway,
that we was a podcast where we kind of talk
about people's deaths to cope with our own mortality. Super
(00:31):
super fun does not work. Do you guys know that
some Olive Garden waiters or service they say instead of
saying soup or salad, that I say salad or soup
because they're so fucking over people saying super solid Anyway,
I was on a TikTok bench last night and I
saw that. Um, I'm your host, Mika, along with Taylor
Hi and Gaby. I'm sorry I was thrown off by
(00:54):
the Olive Garden comments, but hello, I'm like my AHD
is a little a little rumpant. Today on today's show,
we're going to explore just how dang dress Quicksand is
and just hunt dangerous Mormons are. Wow, Quicksands. It's like
a great horror movie. I love it already. Today's trigger
(01:16):
warnings are religious fanaticism, being bludgeoned, drowning, suffocation, no thank you, guns, execution.
I think that's about it. That's it. Wow, that is
it just a real light you know, morning podcast que
(01:39):
aligator music. Okay, Taylor, Um, it's quicksand time. It's Sandy,
(01:59):
Sandy time, Sandy from SpongeBob SquarePants. You know, I really
want to go to the beach right now. Let's go.
Let's stop doing this episode right now. Okay, Gobby, No,
but okay, um, let's why you have things to do.
I do. I'm like a businesswoman. Oh that's true. Business
(02:24):
hat feel very executive. Okay, great, so let's hear Texas
we're going there. There's this fella. His name is Jose
Ray Escarbato. Um. He loved nature. He would often go
to the San Antonio River and he would swim. It
sounds like a tinder profile. Well yeah, and it also
like swimming in a river. Sounds really disgusting to me.
(02:46):
I do not like that. I don't like rivers, and
I don't like lakes. Okay, there's too many things that
we do not understand. Yeah. No, rivers are better though,
because it's moving water, so it should be pretty safe, right,
But then a lake, lake that's more stagnant. I wouldn't
trust a lake. No, that's exactly what I was gonna say, yeah, true. Also,
I tell that story about Lake Lanier to everyone, like
(03:06):
the moment lakes come up, I'm like, did you know?
And then we talked about bloated bodies. So I started
to go down with that rabbit hole, and I was like,
that is not what this is about, not about how
clean rivers are, verses some shots. So I was like,
I'm going to stay on track. So back to Jose.
He went to the store, picked up his prescription. This
(03:26):
was in July, and then he just like went m ia.
His family reported him missing and he just disappeared without
a trace. No one had seen him for three days.
Was this in like current times? Yes, this was twenty
fifteen or twenty eighteen, I forget. And so on the
third day, someone reported that there was a blue car
(03:47):
that was parked for a few days under an overpass
and this was Jose's car. So they call a helicopter,
they do a search, find nothing. So the next day
they went to the river to do the search, which
after a couple of hours they find Jose stuck from
the hips down in quicksand like substance. And then it
(04:10):
appeared that he had like collapsed face down in the
quicksand no evidence of foul play or anything. After an autopsy,
they determined that he had drowned. So presumably he'd gotten
trapped in like the clay sand water mixture and became
exhausted trying to escape foul face first, which is where
(04:30):
he met his demise. So he went river swimming, and
that was near I guess he would park under the
overpass and then got trapped in the quicksand, Hm, wow,
you got it. You listen to my story really well?
It let me do it. So he parked under the
(04:51):
overpass and then he was swimming in the river and
then he got stuck in the quicksand is it quicksand
what is quicksand? So quicksand is just clay sand and
water mixture. It's not exact what we like thought of
when we were kids, Like I don't know why, we
were very we were really concerned about it. But it's
(05:11):
not like a living monster, right exactly, so used so
it's actually like kind of rare. But there was this
other instance that I found where at first I was like,
is this real? Is it's not real? But there were
like very few sources, but I eventually got to got
to the real tea journalism. Yes, so that's what the
journalism is, the tea, yeah, exactly. So there was this
(05:36):
video that was swirling around the Internet of a man
who was like doing this allegedly, I guess I was
doing this video tutorial I'm air quoting on how to
escape quicksand that's like that was the idea when it
was like swirling around, and so I found the video
started watching it. It It was very uncomfy. It was seven
(05:56):
minutes long. And so I watched a seven minute video
I can only do like forty five seconds. No, I
got impatient and I'll started skipping. I was it uncomfying. Okay,
So there was this man and he was in a
blue swimsuit and he just like pencil jumps into this
like quicksand like substance, and so he's like trying to
wiggle himself free, but just like keeps sinking more and
(06:19):
more and more and more until he's basically submerged, and
he's like trying to wipe the quicksand from his mouth
to breathe, and like the video then just like cuts off.
So everybody's like, oh my god, this man just filmed
his death and it kind of looks it kind of
looks that way. It was like really suspicious and scary,
and it's like clearly an old video, like the quality
(06:40):
is not great. I couldn't figure out when exactly it
was made. But anyway, So in twenty ten, this same
fellow reappeared creating more content and here is what he said.
I now have a new waterproof digital camera. That means
that I am now back in the business in terms
of taking videos of me sinking. I created an obscure
(07:04):
YouTube account and have begun uploading videos to it set
as unlisted, so it doesn't show up anywhere. Unfortunately, I
live and help out my parents on a farm who
don't know what I am into and only know that
I enjoy cycling and hiking in the back country. So
apparently there's this like fetish out there called like quicksand
(07:26):
porn where people fetish fetish shot. I can't say that
word fetishe so I can't say it that word bodies
um basically being consumed in sticky uigue mud um Nika's
into it, so okay um. So even further though it's
(07:49):
very specific, is very specific, and people will actually go
out into nature and submerge themselves in mud, and those
people are called sinkers. Sinkers. Yeah, so I'm like, I
went down such a rabbit hole yesterday and I was like,
what is a bunch of porn? No, I actually didn't,
and I was kind of for the podcast. It's for
(08:11):
the show, it's research show. I didn't actually, but there
is a Vice documentary or like a Vice episode specifically
about this. So I watched fifty seventy five percent journalism.
So anyway, so this whole thing started basically in the
(08:31):
sixties in Hollywood. There were so many movies with quicksand scenes.
It started with the nineteen forty five iteration of Tarzan
where there is a scene where Tarzan rescues Jane from
the quicksand he's like up in the tree pulls her
out with a rope, and so many people found this arousing.
So like after that it was like the cool thing
(08:52):
to do to have quicksand and movies. And it then
kind of like began this this trope and that is
kind of why it was like popularized, because people were
fedistal fedish stiles of sexual awaking. Yeah, so in this
Vice episode they say that one and thirty five films
had quicksand scene in it at its peak popularity, like
(09:14):
it even made it into Princess Bride. That was like
kind of you know, making fun of the trope. So
now it's like this funny thing that is a lot
and I actually remember that scene from the Princess Bride. Also,
do you guys remember George of the Jungle. Yeah, I
want to watch that. Okay, I think they had quicksand too.
Also he was really hot, so like, yeah, people will
go out there, they're out there. There's like also there's
(09:35):
specific websites dedicated to this, and there was this like
and so in in the Vice documentary, it was like
showing or episode it was showing like these guys who
they specifically make sinking videos people, and like it's this
whole thing and they can also you can also like
rent out a quicksand little vat if you will. Ah
(10:00):
that oh like a big thing full of quicksand yeah,
so that you can whatever do whatever you know, sync
or I don't know, make videos. So yeah, it's just
like this whole, this pop culture thing that happened in
a time and then we've we're all afraid of it
because it became this like trope, but really, you know,
(10:22):
it's it's not that it's not that common, and we
all thought it was gonna be like this huge deal
and it's just not. It's really strange. Right, where did
you find out of curiosity? Where did you find these videos? Taylor? So, okay,
could you just like send me here for research post research? Well, okay,
(10:45):
I was looking up has anybody died from drowning in
or being stucked into quicksand and all of these other
things start popping up? What gotcha? It just it was like,
it's really obvious that it's like porn. Yeah. Oh, that's
like when I when we did the horse, the horse
fucking episode. Right when I googled beast reality, the first
(11:08):
things that come up. I just was trying to look
up like the Wikipedia page, but most of it it
was like porn sights, and I was like, wow, absolutely,
well yeah, and so another thing, one thing that actually
found really interesting was that a lot of people who
do the sinkers they find it really comforting, and it's
like kind of they were comparing it to furries of
how it's like comforting to like be surrounded by something
(11:32):
I don't know, yeah, or like a weighted blanket, but
it's a yeah, they should make like a snuggie that's
quick sand like a big sun like a sand box,
but it's like in a sleeping bag. I will say
I got a pedicure a couple weeks ago, and I,
you know, they give you the menu, yes, And I
saw this jelly thing. I was like yeah, I was
(11:56):
like what is that? And so I was like why not?
Like I was like, treat yourself and it was nice.
I like, your foot is like totally in case in
that jelly. It feels nice. It does feel nice. Anyway,
Thank you Taylor so much for giving us all of
this information about these tragic deaths or death. Yeah. I
was only one death, the guy, Yeah, the guy that
(12:18):
didn't die like everybody thought he did. And then turns
out he just pops back up and he's like, got
me a better camera. Well, thank you, Taylor. We will
be right back. Hi, we are back. Um. I you know,
our conversations in the commercials are just disgusting. Okay, as
(12:38):
Taylor mentioned them on Patreon funny um. Okay, So, as
Taylor mentioned, I also grew up worried about quicksand okay,
I was concerned. I was wondering when I was going
to have kind of my big Indiana Jones moment. And
to this day, I have actually never seen quicksand in
the flash, like I don't. I honestly didn't know what
(13:00):
it looked like until I saw these videos. Yeah, maybe
you don't go on enough adventures. I feel like you
need an adventure for the quicksand. I'm just saying, yeah,
I guess I need to match with a guy on
Tinder that's like, I love to adventure. I love adventures.
Beer and the office. Okay, I am a CEO of
my own company lift or I work at a startup
(13:23):
or something like that. Entrepreneur, Yeah, hang out and they
have an entrepreneur there. Okay. However, quicksand is an element
of nature and it is still out there, so we
have to be mindful. Maybe you listener, you know, have
anxiety over this phenomenon. Well, I am here to quell
your fears and your worries. I technically did not figure
(13:45):
it out, but a scientist did, and now I get
to explain his science badly, very excited about it. So
this guy's name and I feel like one time I
was called out because I said he when I was
referring to scientists and like in the plural and people.
Really science just can be women too, And I know that,
so I made sure to find out what pronounced this
(14:05):
person uses and they are he him. His name is
Daniel Is. His name is Daniel Bunn. He is a
professor at the University of Amsterdam, and he was visiting
Iran when he saw like a bunch of warning signs
near a lake that explained the dangers of quicksand okay,
and quicksand I mean, I think, as Taylor explained, it's
really just wet sand. And when the sand is too wet,
(14:25):
what happens science is there's very little friction between them,
which causes the sand to not be able to support
any weight. It's normally found in rivers, as Taylor's story explained,
and can also sometimes happen after an earthquake because water
is released from like underground reservoirs, which honestly is kind
of scary. Can I just say, when I was a kid,
I legitimately thought you'd be like walking down like in
(14:48):
the jungle, as we find ourselves in the jungle, and
then all of a sudden you'd be walking thinking that
it was ground, but then it was just stand and
then as sucked in. Well, but here's my question. Is
it that quicksand is not, you know, that popular out
there and we were tricked, or is it that we
honestly just don't walk around of the jungle enough. No,
it's it's just that's what we thought it was. But
(15:09):
that's not what it is. But if you're like in
a jungle near a river, that actually could be a
big possibility. Yeah, but I thought it was like literally
like in the like randomly just like walking down the
you know, or like randomly walking in the desert. But
then again, how many times why did I think in
my adult life that I was going to be walking
around the desert? All of it exactly the same. I
was really worried though. Okay, well, thank thank you for sharing.
(15:34):
Our lives are just not as good as we thought
they were going to be. I thought I was going
to be in the desert. I mean no, I mean
honestly calls playing as a cactie anyway. That reminds me
of another fetish of people who like just want to
be objects. Okay, okay, I have some links for that too. Okay,
(15:56):
So he talked to some locals about these signs, He's
warning signs, and he found out that they were all
super cautious and scared of quicksand, because apparently there was
a lot of quicksand in the air area. So he
was like, I'm going to take a sample. I was
about to do an accent, but there's no way I'm
doing an accent. Nope. He went back to the Netherlands
when he replicated the composition of his sample. Ready to
(16:16):
experiment with quicksand and see how dangerous it really is.
Spoiler alert, It is actually not that bad, but it
is impressive, Okay, I will say that. So the sand
cannot hold any weight at all, and what an object
is introduced on top of it? He mentions, it's kind
of like toppling, like a stack of oranges. So the
moment that something sits on top of it, it it creates
downward momentum that can be really hard to stop. If
(16:39):
you're like halfway into quicksand and the force is still
pulling you down, Trying to get a foot out would
require the strength needed to lift a medium sized car,
which is pretty bananas. That is intense. So that's impressive
in a way. However, staying still and just kind of
waiting things out is usually what works. So what you
do is you allow the particles to settle and then
(16:59):
buoyancy rises you to the top of the sand and
that's it. And that's like you just get rearranged. So
the only human danger rearranged. Yeah, all of your atoms
get rearranged, and but you become a I don't know
what would be a sand creature. Man. Yeah, that's like
a real creature. Or is that the thing in that
(17:22):
one Terrible Spider Man movie? I think so. Also, there
is that songs mister san you know you can't sing
that song. We don't have the rights to it. We're
gonna get sued deason this as they're gonna like shoot
me from like the sharpshooters that they have around. Yes, okay,
oh that's I was just thinking about executions because of
(17:45):
the next tangent. Anyway, Yes, you do, you get rearranged, okay,
and you don't become a stand creature. You stay your
normal self. You just get floated up to the top
because of science. Okay, the light to space Okay, last
dance exactly, thank you, Taylor, Oh my god, do you
lose weight when you're in quick soon new diet. The
(18:07):
only human danger that he mentioned is that if someone
gets stuck in front of a body of water, which
happens a lot because there's a lot of quicksand in
front of bodies of water during high tide, then they
can drown because they cannot move, which I'm sure is
probably what happened to last the last guy. Yes, I
watched this video where um, this British guy not a
(18:28):
sexy video, which kind of makes me sound like, what
the funk? Where are the sexy videos? Okay, we're this guy,
this British guy not sexy. Umi is not sexy. Yeah,
he visited this place full of quicksand areas and his
whole thing was like, okay, can you get out of
quick sound, I'm gonna get it in a fine out.
And the way when you called us xenophobic last episode
(18:50):
for doing British accents and then you're also like, yeah,
they're all disgusting and here's an accent. Hey, I never
said they were all discussing. I said he specifically I
was not attracted to. Okay, Okay, there are a lot
of British guys that are hot. I don't I don't want,
I don't want to hear that. And also the accent,
is it a little bit like I added more inflections maybe,
(19:11):
but honestly, fucking look up this video. He actually sounds
like that. Okay, okay, I'm sorry, you're doing it for accuracy.
I was calling you out before I realize you. Oh
my gosh, exactly. So he so he did that, and
they literally it was just funny because they had to
(19:31):
make like quicksand look terrifying, and so they did like
a lot of jump cuts and quick zoom ins, and
at one point he grabs the quicksand and throws it
on the ground and then they do like rock music
in the middle of it, which I thought was hilarious
and it was delightful. But it is pretty scary though,
because he was sinking and he said that he couldn't
move his legs at all, and it took eight only
eight minutes for him to sink to his waist, which
was kind of scary. I feel like it should be
(19:53):
called like kind of quicksand or something, you know. Yeah, yeah,
medium paste sand Yeah. So that's it. I mean, honestly,
I don't think we have anything really to worry about necessarily,
it's just a patience, you know, a waiting game. I
think virgos would have a great time with quick sand
because they're trying to be more patient. I think Aries
(20:14):
and Gemini y'all are goners. I don't know what to
tell you, Like, could you just keep going down forever? Though? No? No, no,
because your body is less dense than the sand. That's
a correct right tailor? Yeah, yeah, like I was reading
to another way to come. But if you got a
fat ass, but your lungs, it's because of your lungs.
(20:36):
So your lungs have more air, you know, because it's
not your breath. Well, if you give me. But yeah,
I can tell you about something. I can talk about
something else. Thank you quickly, slow sand Um. Okay, well,
more men's but we're talking about them, so let's start
(20:59):
at the beginning. Okay, more men's. They were doing stuff
if you recall back in the nighteeenth century, that's when
they kind of started getting going. This dude Joseph Smith
was like Mormons, and they're like, yes, yas queen were
Mormons now and they why, Like, I don't why does
someone just sit down and are like I want to
create a whole new culture. Laugh today. Here's the thing.
(21:25):
I don't know why I starred with this, because I
honestly didn't really research anything about the origins of Mormonism.
Just at some point they all went to what is
now Utah because they got kicked out of other places
because they were a little violent, and you know, they
hated they literally they thought they were other people. They
were like, we are not Americans, and they just hated Americans.
(21:48):
So they went to Utah. So they went to Utah.
The territory of Utah supposed to be really pretty yes,
and you can have as many wives as you desire
there at this time if you were a Mormon and
not adhering to the laws of the United States of America.
So is it illegal to have multiple wives under the
(22:10):
US government? Wife can only legally marry one person. Okay,
I'm not a Mormon, but that's kind of dumb. Well,
that's the next thing, you know, that's the slippery slope
of gay marriage. Soon people are just gonna be marrying
you know, many people and horses right right right over there.
(22:31):
I had to do it. I had to do it. Okay, goat,
we keep going, Okay, so let's forget the origin story
of Mormonism and let's skip forward a little bit to
eighteen fifty seven. Okay, at this point, the governor of Utah,
because it's just basically a theocracy, is Brigham Young. And
he was a zany dude. Okay, he said lots of
(22:58):
crazy things. He was the one who said he talked
about blood atonement. He was saying that there's certain crimes
that are too bad that the blood of Christ cannot
atone for your sins. So basically what you have to
do they would be and you know those terrible things
like you know, killing somebody else, hurting children, or having
an interracial marriage, to which he proposed the only way
(23:23):
to escape that sin and you know, get to the beyond.
The blood atonement was like, if you committed any of
these sins, you needed to willingly spill your own blood
and die in order to get to the kingdom or whatever.
So not just self harm or like lash yourself like
some Catholics, but actually murder, like kill yourself and literally
(23:47):
spilling blood. So like, he supported the capital punishment in
that regard of like, and that is why he did,
I think very briefly a approved capital punishment was beheading.
Oh um. And then also Nika's going to be talking
more about firing squads, but firing squads was another one
that was popular because that's like those are the very
(24:08):
bloody deaths, you know, like other deaths less bloody, but
you literally needed to spill your blood. And especially for
interracial marriage. He was saying that you need to be beheaded,
and you also need your children to be beheaded children.
I laughed because it's so fucking crazy that anyone would
ever say that, But I do want to say that,
like that is extremely fucked up and yeah, absolutely insane. Yeah,
(24:31):
a man with the bloodtoement. They say like it was
never actually practice, but there are like a couple instances
where it was like this might have been blood atoement,
but I think it was just you know, racism. That
was probably more accurate to describe it, um disguised as
like trying to save you save your soul students sane. Yeah,
(24:53):
were they actually doing it? No, there's no like proven
blood atonement, but this was just like created sort of
this very violent, sort of hysterical atmosphere in Utah. So
in eighteen fifty seven, what was happening was the US
Army was supposedly headed towards Utah to basically a usurp
(25:16):
Brigham Young as the governor because they really didn't approve of,
you know, polygamy and stuff like that. And it was
just a lot of things were going on for the
Utah people because the US Army might have been coming. Also,
one of their apostles had just been murdered in Arkansas.
And then also, you know, he had twenty wives, so
(25:37):
you know, ladies last shot, so you have to that's
probably stressful to have that many wives, maybe more than
fifty children. That's a lot. He had a lot on
his plate, you know. So they were just like there's
just this atmosphere of like they hated the Americans and
they're just like, we fucking like we can't trust anybody,
like if anyone comes through Utah, like they have to
(25:57):
have like a pass and they have to like you
don't trade with outsiders. They just like they hated everyone
because they were under they thought they were under siege
from like all sides and everyone. But they did have
like kind of an interesting relationship with the Native Americans
in that area. They were the pie outs and so
they kind of i feel like they had a very
like US versus Them sort of thing with the Native
(26:18):
Americans where they're like, here, we have to band together
to kind of fight the Americans and any other like
immigrants who were going to be trying to come through Utah.
So they kind of like they would trade and I
don't know just they It was like a complicated relationship.
But so what happens though, is there is this caravan
that's coming through Utah. It's coming from Arkansas, and it's
(26:38):
about somewhere between one hundred and two hundred people, and
they're trying to get to California because obviously you want
to leave Arkansas. Who needs a reason, you know, California.
They're just like, ah, yes, beautiful land, we can go there.
And at this point, everyone in America is kind of
like or whatever we conceptualize as America. At that point,
people were just like, yeah, we want big spaces and
(26:59):
we want room and shit. So everyone was like moving
out west, and so that's what they were trying to do.
So they're just this care event that was going through
and unfortunately they are coming through right when there's all
this kind of like hysteria that's going on in Utah
amongst the Mormons, who are just like everyone's trying to
attack us, and there's all these rumors that are starting
that are like, oh, all these people they're like poisoning
(27:21):
our wells and they're like stealing our food, and they're
just like all these these Arkansas people suck and all this.
But historians have like, there's is no evidence to say
that they were being like antagonistic at all towards the Mormons.
And there's this guy named John Lee, and he was
part of the dan Nites, which was kind of like
a very aggressive, violent secret sect of the Mormons who
(27:44):
kind of were there to protect Mormons. And he also
like he was the head of a militia that was
kind of in this area that the caravan was going through.
So the caravan, and I think it's like in September,
they set off an April of eighteen fifty seven, eighteen
fifty seven, they go to you know, they're traveling basically
fifteen hundred miles. They go through Salt Lake City, it's September,
(28:06):
and then they go by this crik called Mountain Meadows. Yeah,
and there's a valley there and at this point, no one,
no one really knows exactly why this happened, but John
Lee he teamed up with some of the Paiutes and
they attacked the caravan. And also it was mostly the
(28:30):
white Mormons, but they disguised themselves as Native Americans so
that the Arkansas caravan wouldn't know that it was like
the Mormons. So they attacked and they started for a
couple of days they were just shooting them and killing people.
And then the caravan what they did is they like
kind of got in a circle to like kind of
block the siege, and they were like kind of like
fighting back. And then John Lee was like, well, guys, okay,
(28:54):
they might figure out that we're actually just Mormons, and
then they're going to fucking tell the US Army and
like the President, and they're going to come get us.
So we need to kill all of them. Obviously, we
need everyone to be dead. Yeah, And so you know,
they get out of their Native American garb and they
go into the encampment with like a white flag being like, hey, here,
(29:16):
it's us, the Mormons. We've come here to help you
and save you. If you give us all of your
cattle and all of your belongings, we'll Native Americans as
like the blame yep, all right, okay, tracks yeah, so
they're saying, yeah, the Native Americans, they're attacking you. It's
not us, say crazy and so but they're like, yeah, well,
(29:41):
we'll escort you if you just give us all your stuff.
And so they're like, okay, that's fine because you know,
everyone's injured and we're having a bad, bad time. And
so they separate the women and children from the men,
and then the women and children are escorted in the
caravan over out of the valley. And once they get
out of the valley, there's all these people. They're all
these Mormons who then slaughter them all kill them with
(30:04):
They shoot the and they bludgeoned them and stabbed them
and then all I'm so sorry. I thought that when
they were like white flagging, they meant it like they
were actually white. No, well, they needed to kill them all.
So they went to the US it's not honorable. And
then all the men who were there, it was John Lear,
it was someone else, said do your duty, and they
(30:29):
shot all the men in the head for the most part.
So one hundred and twenty people were killed. And this
was on September eleventh, the first September eleven. So, I mean,
this is a pretty bleak story. It was it is
called the Mountain Meadows Massacre. How did it come out? Like?
Who told the story? I guess if no one survived? Well,
(30:52):
what they did? So they killed probably like a dozen women.
Then they said three dozen children and the restroomen that
they killed, but they didn't kill seventeen kids who looked
like they were under the age of five ish, so
that because they wouldn't remember. And then weirdly, those kids
were then sent to live with some of the people
who had like participated in the slaughter, and then they
(31:12):
were sent eventually sent back to their families. But I
mean some of them did remember. But at first yeah,
I mean they like people heard about it, and at
first they were like, no, the Native Americans did it, okay,
But then the US Army did come by a year
later and they kind of did an investigation, and then
the Mormons were like, a, actually it was John Lee.
It was all him. He did it all. He like
(31:33):
led the militia. It's his fault. So John Lee he
goes through two trials. They got a little postponed because
of the Civil War, and in the second trial in
eighteen seventy seven, they sentenced him to death and he
was just like, bros, your scapegoating me, Like it wasn't me.
I didn't do it. And he like even wrote down
that Brigham Young, you know, the blood Atonement dude, who
(31:54):
was the governor at the time, he actually gave a
direct order to him to lead this militia and kill
all these people. So and there's been like in the
past like thirty years, there's been like multiple books of
which people have written about like who's kind of to blame,
Like it definitely seems it was just like a very
people say hysterical. It was just like a hysterical period
(32:16):
in Utah just because they thought they were being attacked
all the time. So they're just like, if anyone's coming
through our space, we had to fucking kill them. And
also these people were from Arkansas, and there was even
like a rumor planted where they're just like, actually one
of the people in that caravan killed our apostle, and
so there was just like all this shit that wasn't true,
and it was just kind of like it's spiraled very
badly out of control. Yeah, okay, I would say, so yeah,
(32:40):
and so John Lee he gets sentenced to firing squad
and his last words were, let them shoot the balls
through my heart, don't let them mangle my body. So
you know, okay body positivity. I don't know. Okay, that's dramatic.
John Kay. Yeah, they had blamed him. But then in
(33:02):
like I think it was yeah, nineteen sixty one, the
Latter day Saints, like the higher ups were like, hey, well,
actually John Lee, because he had been ousted from the church.
They're like, actually, we're going to reinstate him as a
member of the church. And actually we're just gonna say,
you know, we kind of did it, just like the
Mormons kind of did it. It wasn't just him. And
there's been like more historians recently who have also placed
(33:23):
blame on Brigham Young that he either contributed to this
like violent atmosphere or he like literally told people to
kill all these people in this caravan. So that is
the fun story that's messed up. Of a better phrase,
that is the massacre at Mountain Meadows in eighteen fifty seven,
(33:50):
September eleventh, so very sad and there's literally no reason
for these people to be killed. That is so messed
up and it's just gonna get more messed up. So
I guess welcome back. Um, Utah's crazy, thank you, isn't
(34:17):
Utah bananas? Wow? This is a great tangent because I'm
also talking about something that's happening in Utah yay, and
it's pretty barbaric. So yes, we're excited. So apparently pharmaceutical
companies are making it more difficult for states to use
their products as lethal injections and so um. Because of that,
(34:40):
some states who have the death penalty have turned to
other methods of execution. Oh yeah, Oh, where's this going? Yeah?
Going anywhere? Good? That's big Dora Explorer energies. Can you
guess where this is going? Bad places? Going to the
(35:01):
bad place. So also, one more thing I found out
that I'm some states try to get their lethal injection
drugs through something called the gray market, which I found
hilarious and horrible because it's like, it's not the black market,
it's not the white market, which is like, you know,
legal under the economy, but no, it's the gray market.
I am, I don't know. I'm just tickled by the
(35:21):
fact that that exists. So funny. I thought it was
pretty funny. Also, how do you even get into the
black market. I've always wanted to know. And then I
know someone who actually used to surf the deep web
and the black market, and they're literally like, don't ever,
don't ever do it, Like you're not. It's like she
stays in your brain. Don't do it? Is it just
(35:42):
like www dot black market dot com? I don't know.
I literally don't know how to enter into it. I
think web dot or Yeah. I do want to have
like a hacker friend because I want to know what
like my friends want for like Christmas and their birthdays
and stuff. And I know people keep like lists of
that on Instagram and Pinterest and shit like that. Um,
(36:02):
but that's only really really, that's why you want to
get into the black market, right You could also just
ask your friends, Okay, but then what's a surprise? Okay anyway, Yeah,
so the gray market fun, and honestly, researching for this
specific part of the show felt helidystopian, like it was
really weird. So eight states still do the electric chair,
which is death by electrication, and then many do gas chambers,
(36:27):
and yeah they still do all these things. Yeah, so
they'll drop a pill into a like closed room and
then choke somebody to death. And then some of the
gas chambers. States have also been like, the gas chambers
too much and it's costing us too much money. Let's
do gas masks. So you'll they'll have like the person
put on a mask and then have the gas just
(36:48):
entered into the mask and that's how they choked to death. God. Yeah,
this is all like hella barbaric and I don't understand anyway.
But apparently it's also really hard to get lethal gas
according to Oklahoma, because they've been trying to get some
lethal gas, trying to get on their hands gas. Okay, yep,
that is funny too, because it's gold on Oklahoma. Okay,
(37:09):
So Utah's governor, you've just been on some weird governors
like okay, okay, so you just governor was like, hey,
we definitely need a backup method for killing people. If
we can't do the lethal drugs and this, we still
have to kill people, like the death penalty still needs
to continue. So let's reinstate firing squads. Oh and that's
(37:29):
exactly what he did. Okay, So there have been three
executions through firing squad in this state. Some other states
I think also allow firing squads like South Carolina, but
Utah's the only one that has actually done it. The
most recent one was in twenty ten, and it seems
like there might be another coming up. This man he
(37:50):
killed a woman and then did a written confession in
nineteen eighty five, but later he said that he was
coerced and he's tried to appeal his trial multiple times.
There were two witnesses who claimed that he was the
one who killed this woman, so they used them as
witnesses obviously, but right after they testified, they like disappeared basically,
(38:10):
and so they ended up in every appeal they ended
up using their initial statement that these two witnesses despite
them like not being there to corroborate it anymore. And
then suddenly, out of nowhere, in twenty nineteen, he appealed
his case again, and this time the witnesses who had
been who knows where, they came back to the city
and they were like police back in the day, paid
(38:32):
our rent and bought us groceries and gifts for the testimony.
What I know, it's crazy. So now it looks like
his case is being reviewed. But he was about to
be put like under the lethal injection like that was
about to happen, or the firing squad, because what happens
is if they cannot get the drugs for the lethal
injection within thirty days of when the date for the
(38:54):
death is supposed to happen, even though the prisoner didn't
ask for it, they still have to. They use firing
squad just likes as a backup, I guess, which is
pretty bananas. That's I didn't know and I still did
stuff like that like they do. Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, No,
you're not dumb. I just it's not like very talked about,
I guess. Okay. Also, I really you just don't want
(39:16):
to think that you live in a society and that
does Yeah, exactly exactly, there we go. That's what it
is here. We are exactly very Distivan. Also, I shuddered. So, okay,
first of all, his case was mishandled, and now it's
like we don't know and he could have he almost died,
like he was almost killed. He didn't just die. Okay,
But that's aside from the point, which is fucking crazy.
(39:37):
But also I really shuddered at the way this was
handled because the way firing squads are it's basically a
chair with a strap on like the head and the body,
and there's sandbags all around just in case, like a
bullet goes weird or they miss aim or whatever. And
so there's sandbags and they put a bag over the
person's head and then they have like, I it's just disgusting.
(40:00):
And then I did not know this. They the sharp
shooters are actually volunteers from either the corrections facility or
law enforcement. That's um, yeah, And there they have to
have five volunteers, and the volunteers stand in front of
the chair and four of them have ammunition and one
has a blank. Apparently the blank encourages psychological deniability within
(40:25):
the shooters. What so they don't know who gets switched. Yes,
they don't know, yes, but they still volunteer for it.
And then I read about this one guy who was
interviewed in the last firing squad killing that happened in
twenty ten, where basically he was like, there were five
people prepared to like do it, and then there were
(40:47):
also three other people on the sidelines who had volunteered
just in case the other five like got cold feet.
No one got cold feet, by the way, but like
there were three other people who were like, oh, yeah,
I'll come and be the backup okay, and then yeah
yeah and then um they asked him, they were like,
why would you volunteer for this? And then he literally
(41:08):
quoted quoted, I don't know if I want to know. No, listen,
he said he wants to be a part of One
Justice and that quote some people just need to be
kicked off the planet. Wow. Okay, what a guy. What
a guy? What a guy. Another execution method is shooting
(41:28):
people into space. Yeah, elon Musk, it's that's when you're
canonized that that would be when it's the space can
love that that one sounds more fun. Well, that is
what I That is what I learned about utah um
and about executions. That was where my head went, yes yesterday,
(41:52):
I literally my research was like vore, which was basically
just mangas of like women opening their mouth and like
eating like furry humanoids, and then um in quicksand and
then death penalty, death penalty. Reddit. Well, it sounds like
you need to relax. Nika, I mean Nica rhyming with pikea. Yeah,
(42:16):
as we've established from the last episode, we said we
said peka, Pika peka, which is dominant, annoying, and thank
you for correcting us. A sweet listener, but we're the
PCA powder Puff Girls. Don't worry, Taylor, you need to
make a massive pronunciation mistake. What are we gonna get
wrong this time? What are we gonna get Yes, queens,
(42:37):
I don't know quakes and y'all heard of us. Well,
thank you for listening despite us being silly and sometimes inaccurate.
See next squeak Nime. Cadaver Gals is a production of
(43:07):
School of Humans and iHeartRadio. It is written et cetera,
produced All That Good Stuff by Taylor Church, Gabby Watts,
and Mika. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter
at cadaver Gals, where we post selfies of us crying
and memes. See you next week.
School of Humans. Hello, welcome to another episode of cataver Gals.
This is the podcast. Yes, I am sure you know
and have heard of us, because we are famous anyway,
that we was a podcast where we kind of talk
about people's deaths to cope with our own mortality. Super
(00:31):
super fun does not work. Do you guys know that
some Olive Garden waiters or service they say instead of
saying soup or salad, that I say salad or soup
because they're so fucking over people saying super solid Anyway,
I was on a TikTok bench last night and I
saw that. Um, I'm your host, Mika, along with Taylor
Hi and Gaby. I'm sorry I was thrown off by
(00:54):
the Olive Garden comments, but hello, I'm like my AHD
is a little a little rumpant. Today on today's show,
we're going to explore just how dang dress Quicksand is
and just hunt dangerous Mormons are. Wow, Quicksands. It's like
a great horror movie. I love it already. Today's trigger
(01:16):
warnings are religious fanaticism, being bludgeoned, drowning, suffocation, no thank you, guns, execution.
I think that's about it. That's it. Wow, that is
it just a real light you know, morning podcast que
(01:39):
aligator music. Okay, Taylor, Um, it's quicksand time. It's Sandy,
(01:59):
Sandy time, Sandy from SpongeBob SquarePants. You know, I really
want to go to the beach right now. Let's go.
Let's stop doing this episode right now. Okay, Gobby, No,
but okay, um, let's why you have things to do.
I do. I'm like a businesswoman. Oh that's true. Business
(02:24):
hat feel very executive. Okay, great, so let's hear Texas
we're going there. There's this fella. His name is Jose
Ray Escarbato. Um. He loved nature. He would often go
to the San Antonio River and he would swim. It
sounds like a tinder profile. Well yeah, and it also
like swimming in a river. Sounds really disgusting to me.
(02:46):
I do not like that. I don't like rivers, and
I don't like lakes. Okay, there's too many things that
we do not understand. Yeah. No, rivers are better though,
because it's moving water, so it should be pretty safe, right,
But then a lake, lake that's more stagnant. I wouldn't
trust a lake. No, that's exactly what I was gonna say, yeah, true. Also,
I tell that story about Lake Lanier to everyone, like
(03:06):
the moment lakes come up, I'm like, did you know?
And then we talked about bloated bodies. So I started
to go down with that rabbit hole, and I was like,
that is not what this is about, not about how
clean rivers are, verses some shots. So I was like,
I'm going to stay on track. So back to Jose.
He went to the store, picked up his prescription. This
(03:26):
was in July, and then he just like went m ia.
His family reported him missing and he just disappeared without
a trace. No one had seen him for three days.
Was this in like current times? Yes, this was twenty
fifteen or twenty eighteen, I forget. And so on the
third day, someone reported that there was a blue car
(03:47):
that was parked for a few days under an overpass
and this was Jose's car. So they call a helicopter,
they do a search, find nothing. So the next day
they went to the river to do the search, which
after a couple of hours they find Jose stuck from
the hips down in quicksand like substance. And then it
(04:10):
appeared that he had like collapsed face down in the
quicksand no evidence of foul play or anything. After an autopsy,
they determined that he had drowned. So presumably he'd gotten
trapped in like the clay sand water mixture and became
exhausted trying to escape foul face first, which is where
(04:30):
he met his demise. So he went river swimming, and
that was near I guess he would park under the
overpass and then got trapped in the quicksand, Hm, wow,
you got it. You listen to my story really well?
It let me do it. So he parked under the
(04:51):
overpass and then he was swimming in the river and
then he got stuck in the quicksand is it quicksand
what is quicksand? So quicksand is just clay sand and
water mixture. It's not exact what we like thought of
when we were kids, Like I don't know why, we
were very we were really concerned about it. But it's
(05:11):
not like a living monster, right exactly, so used so
it's actually like kind of rare. But there was this
other instance that I found where at first I was like,
is this real? Is it's not real? But there were
like very few sources, but I eventually got to got
to the real tea journalism. Yes, so that's what the
journalism is, the tea, yeah, exactly. So there was this
(05:36):
video that was swirling around the Internet of a man
who was like doing this allegedly, I guess I was
doing this video tutorial I'm air quoting on how to
escape quicksand that's like that was the idea when it
was like swirling around, and so I found the video
started watching it. It It was very uncomfy. It was seven
(05:56):
minutes long. And so I watched a seven minute video
I can only do like forty five seconds. No, I
got impatient and I'll started skipping. I was it uncomfying. Okay,
So there was this man and he was in a
blue swimsuit and he just like pencil jumps into this
like quicksand like substance, and so he's like trying to
wiggle himself free, but just like keeps sinking more and
(06:19):
more and more and more until he's basically submerged, and
he's like trying to wipe the quicksand from his mouth
to breathe, and like the video then just like cuts off.
So everybody's like, oh my god, this man just filmed
his death and it kind of looks it kind of
looks that way. It was like really suspicious and scary,
and it's like clearly an old video, like the quality
(06:40):
is not great. I couldn't figure out when exactly it
was made. But anyway, So in twenty ten, this same
fellow reappeared creating more content and here is what he said.
I now have a new waterproof digital camera. That means
that I am now back in the business in terms
of taking videos of me sinking. I created an obscure
(07:04):
YouTube account and have begun uploading videos to it set
as unlisted, so it doesn't show up anywhere. Unfortunately, I
live and help out my parents on a farm who
don't know what I am into and only know that
I enjoy cycling and hiking in the back country. So
apparently there's this like fetish out there called like quicksand
(07:26):
porn where people fetish fetish shot. I can't say that
word fetishe so I can't say it that word bodies
um basically being consumed in sticky uigue mud um Nika's
into it, so okay um. So even further though it's
(07:49):
very specific, is very specific, and people will actually go
out into nature and submerge themselves in mud, and those
people are called sinkers. Sinkers. Yeah, so I'm like, I
went down such a rabbit hole yesterday and I was like,
what is a bunch of porn? No, I actually didn't,
and I was kind of for the podcast. It's for
(08:11):
the show, it's research show. I didn't actually, but there
is a Vice documentary or like a Vice episode specifically
about this. So I watched fifty seventy five percent journalism.
So anyway, so this whole thing started basically in the
(08:31):
sixties in Hollywood. There were so many movies with quicksand scenes.
It started with the nineteen forty five iteration of Tarzan
where there is a scene where Tarzan rescues Jane from
the quicksand he's like up in the tree pulls her
out with a rope, and so many people found this arousing.
So like after that it was like the cool thing
(08:52):
to do to have quicksand and movies. And it then
kind of like began this this trope and that is
kind of why it was like popularized, because people were
fedistal fedish stiles of sexual awaking. Yeah, so in this
Vice episode they say that one and thirty five films
had quicksand scene in it at its peak popularity, like
(09:14):
it even made it into Princess Bride. That was like
kind of you know, making fun of the trope. So
now it's like this funny thing that is a lot
and I actually remember that scene from the Princess Bride. Also,
do you guys remember George of the Jungle. Yeah, I
want to watch that. Okay, I think they had quicksand too.
Also he was really hot, so like, yeah, people will
go out there, they're out there. There's like also there's
(09:35):
specific websites dedicated to this, and there was this like
and so in in the Vice documentary, it was like
showing or episode it was showing like these guys who
they specifically make sinking videos people, and like it's this
whole thing and they can also you can also like
rent out a quicksand little vat if you will. Ah
(10:00):
that oh like a big thing full of quicksand yeah,
so that you can whatever do whatever you know, sync
or I don't know, make videos. So yeah, it's just
like this whole, this pop culture thing that happened in
a time and then we've we're all afraid of it
because it became this like trope, but really, you know,
(10:22):
it's it's not that it's not that common, and we
all thought it was gonna be like this huge deal
and it's just not. It's really strange. Right, where did
you find out of curiosity? Where did you find these videos? Taylor? So, okay,
could you just like send me here for research post research? Well, okay,
(10:45):
I was looking up has anybody died from drowning in
or being stucked into quicksand and all of these other
things start popping up? What gotcha? It just it was like,
it's really obvious that it's like porn. Yeah. Oh, that's
like when I when we did the horse, the horse
fucking episode. Right when I googled beast reality, the first
(11:08):
things that come up. I just was trying to look
up like the Wikipedia page, but most of it it
was like porn sights, and I was like, wow, absolutely,
well yeah, and so another thing, one thing that actually
found really interesting was that a lot of people who
do the sinkers they find it really comforting, and it's
like kind of they were comparing it to furries of
how it's like comforting to like be surrounded by something
(11:32):
I don't know, yeah, or like a weighted blanket, but
it's a yeah, they should make like a snuggie that's
quick sand like a big sun like a sand box,
but it's like in a sleeping bag. I will say
I got a pedicure a couple weeks ago, and I,
you know, they give you the menu, yes, And I
saw this jelly thing. I was like yeah, I was
(11:56):
like what is that? And so I was like why not?
Like I was like, treat yourself and it was nice.
I like, your foot is like totally in case in
that jelly. It feels nice. It does feel nice. Anyway,
Thank you Taylor so much for giving us all of
this information about these tragic deaths or death. Yeah. I
was only one death, the guy, Yeah, the guy that
(12:18):
didn't die like everybody thought he did. And then turns
out he just pops back up and he's like, got
me a better camera. Well, thank you, Taylor. We will
be right back. Hi, we are back. Um. I you know,
our conversations in the commercials are just disgusting. Okay, as
(12:38):
Taylor mentioned them on Patreon funny um. Okay, So, as
Taylor mentioned, I also grew up worried about quicksand okay,
I was concerned. I was wondering when I was going
to have kind of my big Indiana Jones moment. And
to this day, I have actually never seen quicksand in
the flash, like I don't. I honestly didn't know what
(13:00):
it looked like until I saw these videos. Yeah, maybe
you don't go on enough adventures. I feel like you
need an adventure for the quicksand. I'm just saying, yeah,
I guess I need to match with a guy on
Tinder that's like, I love to adventure. I love adventures.
Beer and the office. Okay, I am a CEO of
my own company lift or I work at a startup
(13:23):
or something like that. Entrepreneur, Yeah, hang out and they
have an entrepreneur there. Okay. However, quicksand is an element
of nature and it is still out there, so we
have to be mindful. Maybe you listener, you know, have
anxiety over this phenomenon. Well, I am here to quell
your fears and your worries. I technically did not figure
(13:45):
it out, but a scientist did, and now I get
to explain his science badly, very excited about it. So
this guy's name and I feel like one time I
was called out because I said he when I was
referring to scientists and like in the plural and people.
Really science just can be women too, And I know that,
so I made sure to find out what pronounced this
(14:05):
person uses and they are he him. His name is
Daniel Is. His name is Daniel Bunn. He is a
professor at the University of Amsterdam, and he was visiting
Iran when he saw like a bunch of warning signs
near a lake that explained the dangers of quicksand okay,
and quicksand I mean, I think, as Taylor explained, it's
really just wet sand. And when the sand is too wet,
(14:25):
what happens science is there's very little friction between them,
which causes the sand to not be able to support
any weight. It's normally found in rivers, as Taylor's story explained,
and can also sometimes happen after an earthquake because water
is released from like underground reservoirs, which honestly is kind
of scary. Can I just say, when I was a kid,
I legitimately thought you'd be like walking down like in
(14:48):
the jungle, as we find ourselves in the jungle, and
then all of a sudden you'd be walking thinking that
it was ground, but then it was just stand and
then as sucked in. Well, but here's my question. Is
it that quicksand is not, you know, that popular out
there and we were tricked, or is it that we
honestly just don't walk around of the jungle enough. No,
it's it's just that's what we thought it was. But
(15:09):
that's not what it is. But if you're like in
a jungle near a river, that actually could be a
big possibility. Yeah, but I thought it was like literally
like in the like randomly just like walking down the
you know, or like randomly walking in the desert. But
then again, how many times why did I think in
my adult life that I was going to be walking
around the desert? All of it exactly the same. I
was really worried though. Okay, well, thank thank you for sharing.
(15:34):
Our lives are just not as good as we thought
they were going to be. I thought I was going
to be in the desert. I mean no, I mean
honestly calls playing as a cactie anyway. That reminds me
of another fetish of people who like just want to
be objects. Okay, okay, I have some links for that too. Okay,
(15:56):
So he talked to some locals about these signs, He's
warning signs, and he found out that they were all
super cautious and scared of quicksand, because apparently there was
a lot of quicksand in the air area. So he
was like, I'm going to take a sample. I was
about to do an accent, but there's no way I'm
doing an accent. Nope. He went back to the Netherlands
when he replicated the composition of his sample. Ready to
(16:16):
experiment with quicksand and see how dangerous it really is.
Spoiler alert, It is actually not that bad, but it
is impressive, Okay, I will say that. So the sand
cannot hold any weight at all, and what an object
is introduced on top of it? He mentions, it's kind
of like toppling, like a stack of oranges. So the
moment that something sits on top of it, it it creates
downward momentum that can be really hard to stop. If
(16:39):
you're like halfway into quicksand and the force is still
pulling you down, Trying to get a foot out would
require the strength needed to lift a medium sized car,
which is pretty bananas. That is intense. So that's impressive
in a way. However, staying still and just kind of
waiting things out is usually what works. So what you
do is you allow the particles to settle and then
(16:59):
buoyancy rises you to the top of the sand and
that's it. And that's like you just get rearranged. So
the only human danger rearranged. Yeah, all of your atoms
get rearranged, and but you become a I don't know
what would be a sand creature. Man. Yeah, that's like
a real creature. Or is that the thing in that
(17:22):
one Terrible Spider Man movie? I think so. Also, there
is that songs mister san you know you can't sing
that song. We don't have the rights to it. We're
gonna get sued deason this as they're gonna like shoot
me from like the sharpshooters that they have around. Yes, okay,
oh that's I was just thinking about executions because of
(17:45):
the next tangent. Anyway, Yes, you do, you get rearranged, okay,
and you don't become a stand creature. You stay your
normal self. You just get floated up to the top
because of science. Okay, the light to space Okay, last
dance exactly, thank you, Taylor, Oh my god, do you
lose weight when you're in quick soon new diet. The
(18:07):
only human danger that he mentioned is that if someone
gets stuck in front of a body of water, which
happens a lot because there's a lot of quicksand in
front of bodies of water during high tide, then they
can drown because they cannot move, which I'm sure is
probably what happened to last the last guy. Yes, I
watched this video where um, this British guy not a
(18:28):
sexy video, which kind of makes me sound like, what
the funk? Where are the sexy videos? Okay, we're this guy,
this British guy not sexy. Umi is not sexy. Yeah,
he visited this place full of quicksand areas and his
whole thing was like, okay, can you get out of
quick sound, I'm gonna get it in a fine out.
And the way when you called us xenophobic last episode
(18:50):
for doing British accents and then you're also like, yeah,
they're all disgusting and here's an accent. Hey, I never
said they were all discussing. I said he specifically I
was not attracted to. Okay, Okay, there are a lot
of British guys that are hot. I don't I don't want,
I don't want to hear that. And also the accent,
is it a little bit like I added more inflections maybe,
(19:11):
but honestly, fucking look up this video. He actually sounds
like that. Okay, okay, I'm sorry, you're doing it for accuracy.
I was calling you out before I realize you. Oh
my gosh, exactly. So he so he did that, and
they literally it was just funny because they had to
(19:31):
make like quicksand look terrifying, and so they did like
a lot of jump cuts and quick zoom ins, and
at one point he grabs the quicksand and throws it
on the ground and then they do like rock music
in the middle of it, which I thought was hilarious
and it was delightful. But it is pretty scary though,
because he was sinking and he said that he couldn't
move his legs at all, and it took eight only
eight minutes for him to sink to his waist, which
was kind of scary. I feel like it should be
(19:53):
called like kind of quicksand or something, you know. Yeah, yeah,
medium paste sand Yeah. So that's it. I mean, honestly,
I don't think we have anything really to worry about necessarily,
it's just a patience, you know, a waiting game. I
think virgos would have a great time with quick sand
because they're trying to be more patient. I think Aries
(20:14):
and Gemini y'all are goners. I don't know what to
tell you, Like, could you just keep going down forever? Though? No? No, no,
because your body is less dense than the sand. That's
a correct right tailor? Yeah, yeah, like I was reading
to another way to come. But if you got a
fat ass, but your lungs, it's because of your lungs.
(20:36):
So your lungs have more air, you know, because it's
not your breath. Well, if you give me. But yeah,
I can tell you about something. I can talk about
something else. Thank you quickly, slow sand Um. Okay, well,
more men's but we're talking about them, so let's start
(20:59):
at the beginning. Okay, more men's. They were doing stuff
if you recall back in the nighteeenth century, that's when
they kind of started getting going. This dude Joseph Smith
was like Mormons, and they're like, yes, yas queen were
Mormons now and they why, Like, I don't why does
someone just sit down and are like I want to
create a whole new culture. Laugh today. Here's the thing.
(21:25):
I don't know why I starred with this, because I
honestly didn't really research anything about the origins of Mormonism.
Just at some point they all went to what is
now Utah because they got kicked out of other places
because they were a little violent, and you know, they
hated they literally they thought they were other people. They
were like, we are not Americans, and they just hated Americans.
(21:48):
So they went to Utah. So they went to Utah.
The territory of Utah supposed to be really pretty yes,
and you can have as many wives as you desire
there at this time if you were a Mormon and
not adhering to the laws of the United States of America.
So is it illegal to have multiple wives under the
(22:10):
US government? Wife can only legally marry one person. Okay,
I'm not a Mormon, but that's kind of dumb. Well,
that's the next thing, you know, that's the slippery slope
of gay marriage. Soon people are just gonna be marrying
you know, many people and horses right right right over there.
(22:31):
I had to do it. I had to do it. Okay, goat,
we keep going, Okay, so let's forget the origin story
of Mormonism and let's skip forward a little bit to
eighteen fifty seven. Okay, at this point, the governor of Utah,
because it's just basically a theocracy, is Brigham Young. And
he was a zany dude. Okay, he said lots of
(22:58):
crazy things. He was the one who said he talked
about blood atonement. He was saying that there's certain crimes
that are too bad that the blood of Christ cannot
atone for your sins. So basically what you have to
do they would be and you know those terrible things
like you know, killing somebody else, hurting children, or having
an interracial marriage, to which he proposed the only way
(23:23):
to escape that sin and you know, get to the beyond.
The blood atonement was like, if you committed any of
these sins, you needed to willingly spill your own blood
and die in order to get to the kingdom or whatever.
So not just self harm or like lash yourself like
some Catholics, but actually murder, like kill yourself and literally
(23:47):
spilling blood. So like, he supported the capital punishment in
that regard of like, and that is why he did,
I think very briefly a approved capital punishment was beheading.
Oh um. And then also Nika's going to be talking
more about firing squads, but firing squads was another one
that was popular because that's like those are the very
(24:08):
bloody deaths, you know, like other deaths less bloody, but
you literally needed to spill your blood. And especially for
interracial marriage. He was saying that you need to be beheaded,
and you also need your children to be beheaded children.
I laughed because it's so fucking crazy that anyone would
ever say that, But I do want to say that,
like that is extremely fucked up and yeah, absolutely insane. Yeah,
(24:31):
a man with the bloodtoement. They say like it was
never actually practice, but there are like a couple instances
where it was like this might have been blood atoement,
but I think it was just you know, racism. That
was probably more accurate to describe it, um disguised as
like trying to save you save your soul students sane. Yeah,
(24:53):
were they actually doing it? No, there's no like proven
blood atonement, but this was just like created sort of
this very violent, sort of hysterical atmosphere in Utah. So
in eighteen fifty seven, what was happening was the US
Army was supposedly headed towards Utah to basically a usurp
(25:16):
Brigham Young as the governor because they really didn't approve of,
you know, polygamy and stuff like that. And it was
just a lot of things were going on for the
Utah people because the US Army might have been coming. Also,
one of their apostles had just been murdered in Arkansas.
And then also, you know, he had twenty wives, so
(25:37):
you know, ladies last shot, so you have to that's
probably stressful to have that many wives, maybe more than
fifty children. That's a lot. He had a lot on
his plate, you know. So they were just like there's
just this atmosphere of like they hated the Americans and
they're just like, we fucking like we can't trust anybody,
like if anyone comes through Utah, like they have to
(25:57):
have like a pass and they have to like you
don't trade with outsiders. They just like they hated everyone
because they were under they thought they were under siege
from like all sides and everyone. But they did have
like kind of an interesting relationship with the Native Americans
in that area. They were the pie outs and so
they kind of i feel like they had a very
like US versus Them sort of thing with the Native
(26:18):
Americans where they're like, here, we have to band together
to kind of fight the Americans and any other like
immigrants who were going to be trying to come through Utah.
So they kind of like they would trade and I
don't know just they It was like a complicated relationship.
But so what happens though, is there is this caravan
that's coming through Utah. It's coming from Arkansas, and it's
(26:38):
about somewhere between one hundred and two hundred people, and
they're trying to get to California because obviously you want
to leave Arkansas. Who needs a reason, you know, California.
They're just like, ah, yes, beautiful land, we can go there.
And at this point, everyone in America is kind of
like or whatever we conceptualize as America. At that point,
people were just like, yeah, we want big spaces and
(26:59):
we want room and shit. So everyone was like moving
out west, and so that's what they were trying to do.
So they're just this care event that was going through
and unfortunately they are coming through right when there's all
this kind of like hysteria that's going on in Utah
amongst the Mormons, who are just like everyone's trying to
attack us, and there's all these rumors that are starting
that are like, oh, all these people they're like poisoning
(27:21):
our wells and they're like stealing our food, and they're
just like all these these Arkansas people suck and all this.
But historians have like, there's is no evidence to say
that they were being like antagonistic at all towards the Mormons.
And there's this guy named John Lee, and he was
part of the dan Nites, which was kind of like
a very aggressive, violent secret sect of the Mormons who
(27:44):
kind of were there to protect Mormons. And he also
like he was the head of a militia that was
kind of in this area that the caravan was going through.
So the caravan, and I think it's like in September,
they set off an April of eighteen fifty seven, eighteen
fifty seven, they go to you know, they're traveling basically
fifteen hundred miles. They go through Salt Lake City, it's September,
(28:06):
and then they go by this crik called Mountain Meadows. Yeah,
and there's a valley there and at this point, no one,
no one really knows exactly why this happened, but John
Lee he teamed up with some of the Paiutes and
they attacked the caravan. And also it was mostly the
(28:30):
white Mormons, but they disguised themselves as Native Americans so
that the Arkansas caravan wouldn't know that it was like
the Mormons. So they attacked and they started for a
couple of days they were just shooting them and killing people.
And then the caravan what they did is they like
kind of got in a circle to like kind of
block the siege, and they were like kind of like
fighting back. And then John Lee was like, well, guys, okay,
(28:54):
they might figure out that we're actually just Mormons, and
then they're going to fucking tell the US Army and
like the President, and they're going to come get us.
So we need to kill all of them. Obviously, we
need everyone to be dead. Yeah, And so you know,
they get out of their Native American garb and they
go into the encampment with like a white flag being like, hey, here,
(29:16):
it's us, the Mormons. We've come here to help you
and save you. If you give us all of your
cattle and all of your belongings, we'll Native Americans as
like the blame yep, all right, okay, tracks yeah, so
they're saying, yeah, the Native Americans, they're attacking you. It's
not us, say crazy and so but they're like, yeah, well,
(29:41):
we'll escort you if you just give us all your stuff.
And so they're like, okay, that's fine because you know,
everyone's injured and we're having a bad, bad time. And
so they separate the women and children from the men,
and then the women and children are escorted in the
caravan over out of the valley. And once they get
out of the valley, there's all these people. They're all
these Mormons who then slaughter them all kill them with
(30:04):
They shoot the and they bludgeoned them and stabbed them
and then all I'm so sorry. I thought that when
they were like white flagging, they meant it like they
were actually white. No, well, they needed to kill them all.
So they went to the US it's not honorable. And
then all the men who were there, it was John Lear,
it was someone else, said do your duty, and they
(30:29):
shot all the men in the head for the most part.
So one hundred and twenty people were killed. And this
was on September eleventh, the first September eleven. So, I mean,
this is a pretty bleak story. It was it is
called the Mountain Meadows Massacre. How did it come out? Like?
Who told the story? I guess if no one survived? Well,
(30:52):
what they did? So they killed probably like a dozen women.
Then they said three dozen children and the restroomen that
they killed, but they didn't kill seventeen kids who looked
like they were under the age of five ish, so
that because they wouldn't remember. And then weirdly, those kids
were then sent to live with some of the people
who had like participated in the slaughter, and then they
(31:12):
were sent eventually sent back to their families. But I
mean some of them did remember. But at first yeah,
I mean they like people heard about it, and at
first they were like, no, the Native Americans did it, okay,
But then the US Army did come by a year
later and they kind of did an investigation, and then
the Mormons were like, a, actually it was John Lee.
It was all him. He did it all. He like
(31:33):
led the militia. It's his fault. So John Lee he
goes through two trials. They got a little postponed because
of the Civil War, and in the second trial in
eighteen seventy seven, they sentenced him to death and he
was just like, bros, your scapegoating me, Like it wasn't me.
I didn't do it. And he like even wrote down
that Brigham Young, you know, the blood Atonement dude, who
(31:54):
was the governor at the time, he actually gave a
direct order to him to lead this militia and kill
all these people. So and there's been like in the
past like thirty years, there's been like multiple books of
which people have written about like who's kind of to blame,
Like it definitely seems it was just like a very
people say hysterical. It was just like a hysterical period
(32:16):
in Utah just because they thought they were being attacked
all the time. So they're just like, if anyone's coming
through our space, we had to fucking kill them. And
also these people were from Arkansas, and there was even
like a rumor planted where they're just like, actually one
of the people in that caravan killed our apostle, and
so there was just like all this shit that wasn't true,
and it was just kind of like it's spiraled very
badly out of control. Yeah, okay, I would say, so yeah,
(32:40):
and so John Lee he gets sentenced to firing squad
and his last words were, let them shoot the balls
through my heart, don't let them mangle my body. So
you know, okay body positivity. I don't know. Okay, that's dramatic.
John Kay. Yeah, they had blamed him. But then in
(33:02):
like I think it was yeah, nineteen sixty one, the
Latter day Saints, like the higher ups were like, hey, well,
actually John Lee, because he had been ousted from the church.
They're like, actually, we're going to reinstate him as a
member of the church. And actually we're just gonna say,
you know, we kind of did it, just like the
Mormons kind of did it. It wasn't just him. And
there's been like more historians recently who have also placed
(33:23):
blame on Brigham Young that he either contributed to this
like violent atmosphere or he like literally told people to
kill all these people in this caravan. So that is
the fun story that's messed up. Of a better phrase,
that is the massacre at Mountain Meadows in eighteen fifty seven,
(33:50):
September eleventh, so very sad and there's literally no reason
for these people to be killed. That is so messed
up and it's just gonna get more messed up. So
I guess welcome back. Um, Utah's crazy, thank you, isn't
(34:17):
Utah bananas? Wow? This is a great tangent because I'm
also talking about something that's happening in Utah yay, and
it's pretty barbaric. So yes, we're excited. So apparently pharmaceutical
companies are making it more difficult for states to use
their products as lethal injections and so um. Because of that,
(34:40):
some states who have the death penalty have turned to
other methods of execution. Oh yeah, Oh, where's this going? Yeah?
Going anywhere? Good? That's big Dora Explorer energies. Can you
guess where this is going? Bad places? Going to the
(35:01):
bad place. So also, one more thing I found out
that I'm some states try to get their lethal injection
drugs through something called the gray market, which I found
hilarious and horrible because it's like, it's not the black market,
it's not the white market, which is like, you know,
legal under the economy, but no, it's the gray market.
I am, I don't know. I'm just tickled by the
(35:21):
fact that that exists. So funny. I thought it was
pretty funny. Also, how do you even get into the
black market. I've always wanted to know. And then I
know someone who actually used to surf the deep web
and the black market, and they're literally like, don't ever,
don't ever do it, Like you're not. It's like she
stays in your brain. Don't do it? Is it just
(35:42):
like www dot black market dot com? I don't know.
I literally don't know how to enter into it. I
think web dot or Yeah. I do want to have
like a hacker friend because I want to know what
like my friends want for like Christmas and their birthdays
and stuff. And I know people keep like lists of
that on Instagram and Pinterest and shit like that. Um,
(36:02):
but that's only really really, that's why you want to
get into the black market, right You could also just
ask your friends, Okay, but then what's a surprise? Okay anyway, Yeah,
so the gray market fun, and honestly, researching for this
specific part of the show felt helidystopian, like it was
really weird. So eight states still do the electric chair,
which is death by electrication, and then many do gas chambers,
(36:27):
and yeah they still do all these things. Yeah, so
they'll drop a pill into a like closed room and
then choke somebody to death. And then some of the
gas chambers. States have also been like, the gas chambers
too much and it's costing us too much money. Let's
do gas masks. So you'll they'll have like the person
put on a mask and then have the gas just
(36:48):
entered into the mask and that's how they choked to death. God. Yeah,
this is all like hella barbaric and I don't understand anyway.
But apparently it's also really hard to get lethal gas
according to Oklahoma, because they've been trying to get some
lethal gas, trying to get on their hands gas. Okay, yep,
that is funny too, because it's gold on Oklahoma. Okay,
(37:09):
So Utah's governor, you've just been on some weird governors
like okay, okay, so you just governor was like, hey,
we definitely need a backup method for killing people. If
we can't do the lethal drugs and this, we still
have to kill people, like the death penalty still needs
to continue. So let's reinstate firing squads. Oh and that's
(37:29):
exactly what he did. Okay, So there have been three
executions through firing squad in this state. Some other states
I think also allow firing squads like South Carolina, but
Utah's the only one that has actually done it. The
most recent one was in twenty ten, and it seems
like there might be another coming up. This man he
(37:50):
killed a woman and then did a written confession in
nineteen eighty five, but later he said that he was
coerced and he's tried to appeal his trial multiple times.
There were two witnesses who claimed that he was the
one who killed this woman, so they used them as
witnesses obviously, but right after they testified, they like disappeared basically,
(38:10):
and so they ended up in every appeal they ended
up using their initial statement that these two witnesses despite
them like not being there to corroborate it anymore. And
then suddenly, out of nowhere, in twenty nineteen, he appealed
his case again, and this time the witnesses who had
been who knows where, they came back to the city
and they were like police back in the day, paid
(38:32):
our rent and bought us groceries and gifts for the testimony.
What I know, it's crazy. So now it looks like
his case is being reviewed. But he was about to
be put like under the lethal injection like that was
about to happen, or the firing squad, because what happens
is if they cannot get the drugs for the lethal
injection within thirty days of when the date for the
(38:54):
death is supposed to happen, even though the prisoner didn't
ask for it, they still have to. They use firing
squad just likes as a backup, I guess, which is
pretty bananas. That's I didn't know and I still did
stuff like that like they do. Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, No,
you're not dumb. I just it's not like very talked about,
I guess. Okay. Also, I really you just don't want
(39:16):
to think that you live in a society and that
does Yeah, exactly exactly, there we go. That's what it
is here. We are exactly very Distivan. Also, I shuddered. So, okay,
first of all, his case was mishandled, and now it's
like we don't know and he could have he almost died,
like he was almost killed. He didn't just die. Okay,
But that's aside from the point, which is fucking crazy.
(39:37):
But also I really shuddered at the way this was
handled because the way firing squads are it's basically a
chair with a strap on like the head and the body,
and there's sandbags all around just in case, like a
bullet goes weird or they miss aim or whatever. And
so there's sandbags and they put a bag over the
person's head and then they have like, I it's just disgusting.
(40:00):
And then I did not know this. They the sharp
shooters are actually volunteers from either the corrections facility or
law enforcement. That's um, yeah, And there they have to
have five volunteers, and the volunteers stand in front of
the chair and four of them have ammunition and one
has a blank. Apparently the blank encourages psychological deniability within
(40:25):
the shooters. What so they don't know who gets switched. Yes,
they don't know, yes, but they still volunteer for it.
And then I read about this one guy who was
interviewed in the last firing squad killing that happened in
twenty ten, where basically he was like, there were five
people prepared to like do it, and then there were
(40:47):
also three other people on the sidelines who had volunteered
just in case the other five like got cold feet.
No one got cold feet, by the way, but like
there were three other people who were like, oh, yeah,
I'll come and be the backup okay, and then yeah
yeah and then um they asked him, they were like,
why would you volunteer for this? And then he literally
(41:08):
quoted quoted, I don't know if I want to know. No, listen,
he said he wants to be a part of One
Justice and that quote some people just need to be
kicked off the planet. Wow. Okay, what a guy. What
a guy? What a guy. Another execution method is shooting
(41:28):
people into space. Yeah, elon Musk, it's that's when you're
canonized that that would be when it's the space can
love that that one sounds more fun. Well, that is
what I That is what I learned about utah um
and about executions. That was where my head went, yes yesterday,
(41:52):
I literally my research was like vore, which was basically
just mangas of like women opening their mouth and like
eating like furry humanoids, and then um in quicksand and
then death penalty, death penalty. Reddit. Well, it sounds like
you need to relax. Nika, I mean Nica rhyming with pikea. Yeah,
(42:16):
as we've established from the last episode, we said we
said peka, Pika peka, which is dominant, annoying, and thank
you for correcting us. A sweet listener, but we're the
PCA powder Puff Girls. Don't worry, Taylor, you need to
make a massive pronunciation mistake. What are we gonna get
wrong this time? What are we gonna get Yes, queens,
(42:37):
I don't know quakes and y'all heard of us. Well,
thank you for listening despite us being silly and sometimes inaccurate.
See next squeak Nime. Cadaver Gals is a production of
(43:07):
School of Humans and iHeartRadio. It is written et cetera,
produced All That Good Stuff by Taylor Church, Gabby Watts,
and Mika. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter
at cadaver Gals, where we post selfies of us crying
and memes. See you next week.
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