February 20, 2025 • 22 mins
This week, Cal and Luke Worthington, president of the Wyoming Houndsmen Association, discuss the joint shutdown of a series of predator and non-science bills in the Wyoming legislature.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan col Klag.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Here's Cal. Hey, they're CALS Week in Review listeners. I
know I'm pounding you with the current legislative news, but
that's good. That's what you're tuning in for because you
know you are involved and interested in this conservation stuff.
You're active anglers and hunters and recreationists, and it's the
(00:40):
stuff that happens this time of year when snow's pounding
in Montana that's going to affect you during your hunting
and fishing seasons to come right now, just today in Montana,
on the docket SB two eighty three, HB three twenty eight,
HB three thirty, HB three fifty three, three fifty four,
(01:05):
fifty seven, ninety five, SB two thirty five, HB three,
seventy two, seventy one, one oh five, one O six,
and one O seven. And that's not even mentioning the
very much not good uh Anti easement bill that thankfully
got tabled yesterday. So suffice it to say, if this
(01:27):
is going on in Montana, my home state, it's going
on if your state's in session or even if your
fishing game committee are meeting this time of year. So
special guest today, Luke Worthington, Who is are you the chair?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Luke? I am the president of the Wyoming Houndsman Association.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
President of the Wyoming Houndsman Association, which is a five
oh one C four in the State of Wyoming, and
Luke originally reached out to talk about a I shouldn't laugh,
but it is just one of those bills where you
read it and you're like, oh boy, if this is
(02:12):
where you're starting, I don't know if we'll ever be
able to come to the table. HB zero two eight
six State of Wyoming and Act relating to Game and
Fish Requiring an annual mountain lion hunting season, prohibiting hunt areas,
hunt area mortality limits, statewide mortality limits, bag limits, hours
(02:36):
for take hours for season, specifying that a mounta lion
may be taken during any hour of the day. Requiring
Game and Fish to establish possession tags for mountain lions
as specified, Authorizing mounta lions be trapped or snared, Authorizing
persons with other specified licenses to take mount lions, Repealing
mount lion pursuit seasons, providing definitions, making informing amendments, requiring
(03:01):
rule making, and providing for effective dates. Basically, it removes
any sort of regulation, any sort of structure to the
pursuit of a big game animal mountain lions in the
state of Wyoming. Is that a fair enough concise take Luke.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes, it is. You're exactly on point with that. It was.
Our personal opinion of this is that it's ballot box
biology and it is completely revoking all power, all management,
all science based wildlife management away from the game and fish.
And I believe this is an eradication bill. This is
(03:48):
also following in suit with what Utah did.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Meaning Utah's lion bill, I think past the last session
or the session before that basically makes a state wide regulation,
statewide season.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I believe, Yeah, you're correct, and it's a you know,
the thing about this is that you can it's unlimited.
You have to have an antelope, deer, or elk tag
no matter where you're hunting. It doesn't have these lions
don't have to be killed in that specific area. And
we charged forty two dollars for resident mountain lion license.
(04:30):
A non resident is three hundred and eighty dollars. Now
you can go buy a reduced price col elk tag
as a non residence like eighty something bucks. They're unlimited
this year, and that's that's something new. But you can
go buy these tags for eighty bucks. You repel the
lions fees. And this is defunding our game and fish
(04:53):
by hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think they were
making two hundred and two hundred plus thousand dollars off
line tags alone, and now they're getting defunded completely. And
then this bill keeps him as a game animal. So
now the game offici is defunded and they still have
(05:13):
to pay depredation on them out of pocket now with
no funding.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So I understand that, but which doesn't sound good face value.
But you, as a houndsman and lion hunter have got
to be in favor of chasing Katz year long, right you.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Would think so, but I know Aligns needed time to rest.
We start with the Wylman. Houndsman associated with association went
to legislation three years ago to get a pursuit season,
which a lot of people there's a lot for it,
a lot against it, but that gives us the ability
to pursue Mountalines after the quote immortalities have been reached.
(05:53):
And a lot of people are like, yeah, we're just
going out and harassed them outlines. Well that's not the truth.
You know. The real case behind it is is it
is us an opportunity to do some citizens biology. It's
you know, we can go out there after the killings
over your harvest limits have been reached. You're allowed to
buy a pursuit permit. We can go out there. And
(06:14):
what a lot of our heund guys are doing is
we're using that for a census report. You know, you
go in there and hammer a lion area and then
you can go and pursue them after the season mortality
limits have been reached. You can go in there and
see what's left, you know, see if we have some females, kittens, toms,
you know, and it kind of gives it gives a
helld guy a pure direction on where to go with
harvest limits and how we're going to bring it to
(06:36):
public comment when Game of Fish goes around to do
their regional meetings. I think it was beneficial for everybody.
You know that that's a neat little tool that we
brought in that it's pretty much doing a census report
on that pursuit season. So we got that. I don't
think we need to be hunting them all the time,
especially in the dark, especially with no management whatsoever. No,
(06:57):
there's pretty much no regulations on these lions with this bill,
this bill HB two eighty six. You know, it's just
kind of a free for all. We saw it as
an eradication bill.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And no no lions means no lion hunting.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
That's right. When you when it's a free for all,
you know it's it's going to hurt us. And yeah,
I'm sure there's people out there that are going to
take advantage of it. But uh, you know, according to
the North American model of wildlife conservation, you do not
eradicate a species to benefit another. And that's how this
bill was pushed as a meal deer bill, and we
had a lot of Yesterday it actually went to committee
(07:38):
and we had the Mealy Fanatics, probably the biggest meal
deer conservation organization in the state of Wyoming. They opposed
this bill. They're like, this is not a meal deer theme.
This is completely against science based wildlife management. This is
not the way to do it. Game and fish has
has a plan established that has been working for years
(08:01):
since nineteen seventy four. And you know all the sportsmen
in Wyoming, all the associations of TRCP, Wyoming Wildlife Federation.
You know Jess Johnson, she is a hard working gal
down there making sure bad legislation like this does not
go through. And we got the support TRCP merely fanatics,
the Wyoming outfitters and guides Wyoga. They came and testified
(08:25):
against this bill because it is so bad in per
se of taking wildlife management out of the hands of
the professionals.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And yeah, and that's where two eighty six lies right now,
right it's it's uh was it did it even make
it to a vote?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
It did not. It was it died with because of
no motion. They didn't even want to talk about it.
We had forty five people in that waiting to comment
and they gave us sixty seconds. And it was. It
was a pretty awesome scene for bad wildlife bills. We
(09:05):
slaughtered them. And it was because of a growed group
effort within all these associations and sportsmen across the state.
It was. It was great to see. I hope we
see that every time we get bad legislation. They didn't
even want to talk about it. It died because nobody
motioned the bill.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
That's right, broad and diverse coalition makes makes lawmakers think, well,
who the heck is for this?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You know? And this was the first time cal that
I've ever seen anti hunters and hunters on the exact
same page, you know. And and that's good. You know,
it was a It was a good day for wildlife.
I can tell you that much. Because when you shake
the hand of an anti hunter and you both have
the same mindset on science based wildlife management, you know,
(09:53):
legislation had to look at that and be like, wow,
this is bad because very often that very seldom does
that ever happen.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Oh sure, And you know, for the folks that are
are reasonable humans, when you point out the fact that well, look,
the hunting groups are not pro eradication, Like nobody on
the hunting side of things is saying kill them all,
that that does go a long way with future work.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
What else is going on in the state of Wyoming
under I understand there are several bills that you'd kind
of lump in on the predator side of things. What
else is on the table?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Right now, Luke, we had HB zero one eighty six.
It was a bear cupon bill that was going to
allow everybody carrying an ELK license to kill a black
bear or a grizzly bear. You get one cupon per
ELK license. Yeah, I said, grizzly pear. They were going
(11:00):
legislation was gonna make try to make it a law
where in its resident only, where resident can kill a
grizzly bear. They are They pretty much told us it's
okay to commit a felony, a federal crime, it's okay
in our state, go ahead and kill a grizzly bear.
And black bears were on that too. So if you
(11:20):
carried an ELK license, I'll go through this real quick.
Here it was. It was called House Bill one eighty
six Bear coupons, So every ELK license came with a
bear coupon where it was one bear per ELK license.
Like I mentioned before, state of Wyoming has many areas
in the state right now where we're we're overpopulated with
(11:41):
ELK Mulder numbers are in the dumps. So they decided
for every ELK license, you get this bear coupon, which
is good for one black bear or grizzly bear per unit.
The tag was issued. So some of these places have
unlimited l tags for kew elk, you can go buy
(12:02):
a cow out tag, you can kill five or six bears.
So that was pretty that was pretty wild. That actually
made it through committee with an amendment to take the
black bears off the coupon, so now it was left
to just grizzly bear coupons. So every alk license a
resident could kill one grizzly bear, which is as we know,
(12:24):
they're still listed as a protected a federally protected species,
and if you were to do that, that is a felony.
You're looking at ten thousand dollars in fine in jail time.
And our state legislature legislators, we're okay with that. And
it actually went to the house floor yesterday and it
(12:46):
died on the floor with a on a boat. So
that bill is dead too.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That's amazing. What what else is happening in Wyoming?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Okay? Okay? We had Senate file zero one seventy it's
prohibition on management our legislation. Our legislators decided that it
was going to be a is it going to be
a we'll show you bill to the FEDS, so they
pulled This bill was based on pulling all management of
(13:19):
grizzly bears away from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department.
This was if you had depredation grizzly bears walking through
town unless it met with human safety, but define human safety.
But Game and Fish had to stop their collaring process
or population data, all their studies because our state legislation
(13:41):
wanted to, you know, make a statement to the Feds.
And of course I went in We went in there,
all of us again, went in there and testified on
that and be like, hey, you know, the only reason
why our game and fish has a number is because
of data, because of these studies. And now you're pulling
all this away. We'll never get them delisted from the
from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service because we
(14:04):
don't know what's there anymore. You know, we need that data,
We need that scientific We need the boots on the
ground to show a number to prove we can get
them delisted and we can manage them. With pulling management
away from the game of fish. You just showed the
United States Fish and Wildlife Service that our Game and
Fish Department is incompetent on managing grizzly bears. So this
(14:27):
was a this was a really bad bill. It actually
was tabled yesterday no vote. The sponsor was sitting on
the committee and this was in the TRW Committee in
the Senate, and before public comment, he asked if we
could this bill could be tabled. Oh, that's bill is
(14:49):
too you know, I I don't know if our legislation
is just trying to show something to the federal government
thinking it's going to help, but taking all your power
away from game of fish shows them as incompetent. Is
how the sportsmen in Wyoming have seen it. You have
to trust the science, you have to trust the data.
They're the ones doing the work. They are going to
(15:10):
be the reason like we do get grizzy bears delisted
hopefully with the new president and administration in the in
the capitol there in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
For the the Wyoming houndsman, are you as hanging it
up for the rest of the session. What else is
out there?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You know? These were the three big large carnivore bills.
I believe as we're just not houndsman, we're sportsmen, so
we really look out for our Game of Fish department.
We do have, I believe, probably the best carnivor department
in the United States. We got Dan Thompson, which is
our the supervisor, uh, doctor Dan Thompson. He's he's an
(15:48):
amazing carnivor biologist. And if there's any other bills out
there that are against science based wildlife management, we'll fight them
on the wildlife side. There's some land stuff and and
you know, I've been so busy see on these bills.
Cal I work a full time job. This is a
all volunteer association, and I leave that up to Jess
(16:09):
Johnson with Wyomy Wildlife Federation. She will let me know
if there's a bad bill, and she's like, you should
probably testify on this. You know, heads up, we got
this coming in. How do you feel about it? Testify
if you'd like. And you know, that's that's where all
these associations and organizations get together and you build a
sportsman group to handle bills like this. And that's what
(16:29):
Wyoming proved this legislation session is if we all get together,
you can stop bad legislation in its tracks fast.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Heck, yeah, that's awesome. Have you been out running any
cats with the snowy weather?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah? I am a guide. I guide for a O'Brien
O'Brien Creek Outfitters here in Wyoming, and and I did
my little guide session, went and did fun hunting, and
then I got hammered with bills. And you know, I've
done a little bit of hunting here and there, but
my hunting season came to a halt because we need
to fight to keep it. And that's that was my
(17:10):
obligation with the being the association's president. Is sometimes you
got to hang stuff up and you know, and fight
the bigger the bigger picture, and you know, that was
my obligation. So that's what I did. I'm hoping to
get out this weekend. I'm feeling a lot lighter, you know,
without all this pressure on my shoulders, and I finally
(17:30):
get to hang up my phone for a little bit
and not have to be on it for one hundred
hours a week trying to get people on board. But
I'm going to hit it hard this weekend and hopefully
this stuff's kind of over. You know, if our bills
aren't in by Friday, if they don't see a committee
by friday, they are dead. So it's a lot of
weight off our shoulders. Hopefully I can get back out
there and get rolling.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Heck, yeah, man, well you're you're setting a good example.
Sometimes you gotta sacrifice this hunting season for future seasons
to come. And like we always say here on Cal's
wee can review. If you're not in there, somebody else
will be on your behalf and you may not like
what they have to say.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That's exactly right. It's it can be really scary and
a lot of people are scared of this stuff. You know,
I'm not I'm not a highly educated person. I'm just
a hound guy. I work on a ranch. You know,
you can write an email, especially to the committees. If
it makes committee, send an email. It takes five minutes.
(18:33):
You don't need talking points, read the bill and tell
them what you think. They do listen and they do respond.
So that's a Anybody can do this stuff. It's super simple.
And you know that, Kel, you've been in it a
long time with this legislation, and it's very simple to
get the word out. But it also takes a team
(18:54):
to get people involved. And you know, when Colorado did this,
it opened everybody's eyes up. You know, they're like, wow,
we need to do something. You know, when they stormed
the Capitol down there in Denver. It was a big
It was a big showing from the hound guys and
sportsmen alike. And it's very easy to do. It just
takes a little bit of your time. And if this
stuff is important to you, you have to see it
(19:16):
out to preserve it for the future.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well said, Well said, Well, how do folks get a
hold of the Wyoming Houndsman it is.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
We have a Facebook page called the Wyoming Houndsman Association.
You can look us up on there. We also have
a website, the Wyominghoundsminassociation dot org. You can get on
there membership, sponsorships, seeing what we're doing, meet the board,
meet the team. I went to the American Bear Foundation
banquet this year as kind of an affiliation, you know,
(19:50):
did some rafflin, did some live auction stuff. Had a
great time with those guys. Joe Condelius down there at
the American Bear Foundation puts on an amazing banquet usually
else out every year. And that's that's about how you
can get ahold of us. Just watch us on that
Facebook page. Email us email is Wyoming Hounceman Association at
(20:11):
gmail dot com. So you have any questions about what
we do, how we can help your state. If you
guys are fighting something like this, some some tips or
tricks or how to get people unified. You know, we're
pretty young association. We don't we don't know that much,
but we try very hard and I think we're leading
(20:31):
by example.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Heck yeah, I'm gaining gaining that experience. And like like
you said earlier, if you are intimidated to call in
or write in, be it your first time or your
second time or whatever, even go in and testify. Many
times you're going to be shocked if you walk in
that room at how few people are there. And it
makes a big difference. Even if you're not the most
(20:54):
well spoken person out there, that committee or commission is
going to be like, oh boy, people are paying attention
and they care. That's because you showed up. So that
makes an impact.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
It really does. That testifying it can be nerve racking,
but you got to realize they're just people. You voted
for these people to be in there to work for you.
It's your obligation also to show up and voice your opinion.
Send them emails. You know you voted for them. They're
supposed to be representing you, so make sure they.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Know that, Hey, excellent, Well thanks a bunch, Luke. I
appreciate you yet writing in and taking the time to
run us through some good wins. We like hearing that
because sometimes we can get bogged down and how much
other stuff might be going the wrong direction. So I
really appreciate it and hope you get out this weekend
(21:48):
and find that big Tom.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you kel for having me on,
and thanks for everything meat Eater does too out there.
You guys spread the word and it's important to all
of us. All of us need to stay on top
of this stuff, especially especially legislationly wise. I really appreciate
you guys. Thank you, thank you,
From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan col Klag.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Here's Cal. Hey, they're CALS Week in Review listeners. I
know I'm pounding you with the current legislative news, but
that's good. That's what you're tuning in for because you
know you are involved and interested in this conservation stuff.
You're active anglers and hunters and recreationists, and it's the
(00:40):
stuff that happens this time of year when snow's pounding
in Montana that's going to affect you during your hunting
and fishing seasons to come right now, just today in Montana,
on the docket SB two eighty three, HB three twenty eight,
HB three thirty, HB three fifty three, three fifty four,
(01:05):
fifty seven, ninety five, SB two thirty five, HB three,
seventy two, seventy one, one oh five, one O six,
and one O seven. And that's not even mentioning the
very much not good uh Anti easement bill that thankfully
got tabled yesterday. So suffice it to say, if this
(01:27):
is going on in Montana, my home state, it's going
on if your state's in session or even if your
fishing game committee are meeting this time of year. So
special guest today, Luke Worthington, Who is are you the chair?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Luke? I am the president of the Wyoming Houndsman Association.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
President of the Wyoming Houndsman Association, which is a five
oh one C four in the State of Wyoming, and
Luke originally reached out to talk about a I shouldn't laugh,
but it is just one of those bills where you
read it and you're like, oh boy, if this is
(02:12):
where you're starting, I don't know if we'll ever be
able to come to the table. HB zero two eight
six State of Wyoming and Act relating to Game and
Fish Requiring an annual mountain lion hunting season, prohibiting hunt areas,
hunt area mortality limits, statewide mortality limits, bag limits, hours
(02:36):
for take hours for season, specifying that a mounta lion
may be taken during any hour of the day. Requiring
Game and Fish to establish possession tags for mountain lions
as specified, Authorizing mounta lions be trapped or snared, Authorizing
persons with other specified licenses to take mount lions, Repealing
mount lion pursuit seasons, providing definitions, making informing amendments, requiring
(03:01):
rule making, and providing for effective dates. Basically, it removes
any sort of regulation, any sort of structure to the
pursuit of a big game animal mountain lions in the
state of Wyoming. Is that a fair enough concise take Luke.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes, it is. You're exactly on point with that. It was.
Our personal opinion of this is that it's ballot box
biology and it is completely revoking all power, all management,
all science based wildlife management away from the game and fish.
And I believe this is an eradication bill. This is
(03:48):
also following in suit with what Utah did.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Meaning Utah's lion bill, I think past the last session
or the session before that basically makes a state wide regulation,
statewide season.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I believe, Yeah, you're correct, and it's a you know,
the thing about this is that you can it's unlimited.
You have to have an antelope, deer, or elk tag
no matter where you're hunting. It doesn't have these lions
don't have to be killed in that specific area. And
we charged forty two dollars for resident mountain lion license.
(04:30):
A non resident is three hundred and eighty dollars. Now
you can go buy a reduced price col elk tag
as a non residence like eighty something bucks. They're unlimited
this year, and that's that's something new. But you can
go buy these tags for eighty bucks. You repel the
lions fees. And this is defunding our game and fish
(04:53):
by hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think they were
making two hundred and two hundred plus thousand dollars off
line tags alone, and now they're getting defunded completely. And
then this bill keeps him as a game animal. So
now the game offici is defunded and they still have
(05:13):
to pay depredation on them out of pocket now with
no funding.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So I understand that, but which doesn't sound good face value.
But you, as a houndsman and lion hunter have got
to be in favor of chasing Katz year long, right you.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Would think so, but I know Aligns needed time to rest.
We start with the Wylman. Houndsman associated with association went
to legislation three years ago to get a pursuit season,
which a lot of people there's a lot for it,
a lot against it, but that gives us the ability
to pursue Mountalines after the quote immortalities have been reached.
(05:53):
And a lot of people are like, yeah, we're just
going out and harassed them outlines. Well that's not the truth.
You know. The real case behind it is is it
is us an opportunity to do some citizens biology. It's
you know, we can go out there after the killings
over your harvest limits have been reached. You're allowed to
buy a pursuit permit. We can go out there. And
(06:14):
what a lot of our heund guys are doing is
we're using that for a census report. You know, you
go in there and hammer a lion area and then
you can go and pursue them after the season mortality
limits have been reached. You can go in there and
see what's left, you know, see if we have some females, kittens, toms,
you know, and it kind of gives it gives a
helld guy a pure direction on where to go with
harvest limits and how we're going to bring it to
(06:36):
public comment when Game of Fish goes around to do
their regional meetings. I think it was beneficial for everybody.
You know that that's a neat little tool that we
brought in that it's pretty much doing a census report
on that pursuit season. So we got that. I don't
think we need to be hunting them all the time,
especially in the dark, especially with no management whatsoever. No,
(06:57):
there's pretty much no regulations on these lions with this bill,
this bill HB two eighty six. You know, it's just
kind of a free for all. We saw it as
an eradication bill.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
And no no lions means no lion hunting.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
That's right. When you when it's a free for all,
you know it's it's going to hurt us. And yeah,
I'm sure there's people out there that are going to
take advantage of it. But uh, you know, according to
the North American model of wildlife conservation, you do not
eradicate a species to benefit another. And that's how this
bill was pushed as a meal deer bill, and we
had a lot of Yesterday it actually went to committee
(07:38):
and we had the Mealy Fanatics, probably the biggest meal
deer conservation organization in the state of Wyoming. They opposed
this bill. They're like, this is not a meal deer theme.
This is completely against science based wildlife management. This is
not the way to do it. Game and fish has
has a plan established that has been working for years
(08:01):
since nineteen seventy four. And you know all the sportsmen
in Wyoming, all the associations of TRCP, Wyoming Wildlife Federation.
You know Jess Johnson, she is a hard working gal
down there making sure bad legislation like this does not
go through. And we got the support TRCP merely fanatics,
the Wyoming outfitters and guides Wyoga. They came and testified
(08:25):
against this bill because it is so bad in per
se of taking wildlife management out of the hands of
the professionals.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And yeah, and that's where two eighty six lies right now,
right it's it's uh was it did it even make
it to a vote?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
It did not. It was it died with because of
no motion. They didn't even want to talk about it.
We had forty five people in that waiting to comment
and they gave us sixty seconds. And it was. It
was a pretty awesome scene for bad wildlife bills. We
(09:05):
slaughtered them. And it was because of a growed group
effort within all these associations and sportsmen across the state.
It was. It was great to see. I hope we
see that every time we get bad legislation. They didn't
even want to talk about it. It died because nobody
motioned the bill.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
That's right, broad and diverse coalition makes makes lawmakers think, well,
who the heck is for this?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
You know? And this was the first time cal that
I've ever seen anti hunters and hunters on the exact
same page, you know. And and that's good. You know,
it was a It was a good day for wildlife.
I can tell you that much. Because when you shake
the hand of an anti hunter and you both have
the same mindset on science based wildlife management, you know,
(09:53):
legislation had to look at that and be like, wow,
this is bad because very often that very seldom does
that ever happen.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Oh sure, And you know, for the folks that are
are reasonable humans, when you point out the fact that well, look,
the hunting groups are not pro eradication, Like nobody on
the hunting side of things is saying kill them all,
that that does go a long way with future work.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
What else is going on in the state of Wyoming
under I understand there are several bills that you'd kind
of lump in on the predator side of things. What
else is on the table?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Right now, Luke, we had HB zero one eighty six.
It was a bear cupon bill that was going to
allow everybody carrying an ELK license to kill a black
bear or a grizzly bear. You get one cupon per
ELK license. Yeah, I said, grizzly pear. They were going
(11:00):
legislation was gonna make try to make it a law
where in its resident only, where resident can kill a
grizzly bear. They are They pretty much told us it's
okay to commit a felony, a federal crime, it's okay
in our state, go ahead and kill a grizzly bear.
And black bears were on that too. So if you
(11:20):
carried an ELK license, I'll go through this real quick.
Here it was. It was called House Bill one eighty
six Bear coupons, So every ELK license came with a
bear coupon where it was one bear per ELK license.
Like I mentioned before, state of Wyoming has many areas
in the state right now where we're we're overpopulated with
(11:41):
ELK Mulder numbers are in the dumps. So they decided
for every ELK license, you get this bear coupon, which
is good for one black bear or grizzly bear per unit.
The tag was issued. So some of these places have
unlimited l tags for kew elk, you can go buy
(12:02):
a cow out tag, you can kill five or six bears.
So that was pretty that was pretty wild. That actually
made it through committee with an amendment to take the
black bears off the coupon, so now it was left
to just grizzly bear coupons. So every alk license a
resident could kill one grizzly bear, which is as we know,
(12:24):
they're still listed as a protected a federally protected species,
and if you were to do that, that is a felony.
You're looking at ten thousand dollars in fine in jail time.
And our state legislature legislators, we're okay with that. And
it actually went to the house floor yesterday and it
(12:46):
died on the floor with a on a boat. So
that bill is dead too.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
That's amazing. What what else is happening in Wyoming?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Okay? Okay? We had Senate file zero one seventy it's
prohibition on management our legislation. Our legislators decided that it
was going to be a is it going to be
a we'll show you bill to the FEDS, so they
pulled This bill was based on pulling all management of
(13:19):
grizzly bears away from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department.
This was if you had depredation grizzly bears walking through
town unless it met with human safety, but define human safety.
But Game and Fish had to stop their collaring process
or population data, all their studies because our state legislation
(13:41):
wanted to, you know, make a statement to the Feds.
And of course I went in We went in there,
all of us again, went in there and testified on
that and be like, hey, you know, the only reason
why our game and fish has a number is because
of data, because of these studies. And now you're pulling
all this away. We'll never get them delisted from the
from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service because we
(14:04):
don't know what's there anymore. You know, we need that data,
We need that scientific We need the boots on the
ground to show a number to prove we can get
them delisted and we can manage them. With pulling management
away from the game of fish. You just showed the
United States Fish and Wildlife Service that our Game and
Fish Department is incompetent on managing grizzly bears. So this
(14:27):
was a this was a really bad bill. It actually
was tabled yesterday no vote. The sponsor was sitting on
the committee and this was in the TRW Committee in
the Senate, and before public comment, he asked if we
could this bill could be tabled. Oh, that's bill is
(14:49):
too you know, I I don't know if our legislation
is just trying to show something to the federal government
thinking it's going to help, but taking all your power
away from game of fish shows them as incompetent. Is
how the sportsmen in Wyoming have seen it. You have
to trust the science, you have to trust the data.
They're the ones doing the work. They are going to
(15:10):
be the reason like we do get grizzy bears delisted
hopefully with the new president and administration in the in
the capitol there in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
For the the Wyoming houndsman, are you as hanging it
up for the rest of the session. What else is
out there?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You know? These were the three big large carnivore bills.
I believe as we're just not houndsman, we're sportsmen, so
we really look out for our Game of Fish department.
We do have, I believe, probably the best carnivor department
in the United States. We got Dan Thompson, which is
our the supervisor, uh, doctor Dan Thompson. He's he's an
(15:48):
amazing carnivor biologist. And if there's any other bills out
there that are against science based wildlife management, we'll fight them
on the wildlife side. There's some land stuff and and
you know, I've been so busy see on these bills.
Cal I work a full time job. This is a
all volunteer association, and I leave that up to Jess
(16:09):
Johnson with Wyomy Wildlife Federation. She will let me know
if there's a bad bill, and she's like, you should
probably testify on this. You know, heads up, we got
this coming in. How do you feel about it? Testify
if you'd like. And you know, that's that's where all
these associations and organizations get together and you build a
sportsman group to handle bills like this. And that's what
(16:29):
Wyoming proved this legislation session is if we all get together,
you can stop bad legislation in its tracks fast.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Heck, yeah, that's awesome. Have you been out running any
cats with the snowy weather?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah? I am a guide. I guide for a O'Brien
O'Brien Creek Outfitters here in Wyoming, and and I did
my little guide session, went and did fun hunting, and
then I got hammered with bills. And you know, I've
done a little bit of hunting here and there, but
my hunting season came to a halt because we need
to fight to keep it. And that's that was my
(17:10):
obligation with the being the association's president. Is sometimes you
got to hang stuff up and you know, and fight
the bigger the bigger picture, and you know, that was
my obligation. So that's what I did. I'm hoping to
get out this weekend. I'm feeling a lot lighter, you know,
without all this pressure on my shoulders, and I finally
(17:30):
get to hang up my phone for a little bit
and not have to be on it for one hundred
hours a week trying to get people on board. But
I'm going to hit it hard this weekend and hopefully
this stuff's kind of over. You know, if our bills
aren't in by Friday, if they don't see a committee
by friday, they are dead. So it's a lot of
weight off our shoulders. Hopefully I can get back out
there and get rolling.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Heck, yeah, man, well you're you're setting a good example.
Sometimes you gotta sacrifice this hunting season for future seasons
to come. And like we always say here on Cal's
wee can review. If you're not in there, somebody else
will be on your behalf and you may not like
what they have to say.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That's exactly right. It's it can be really scary and
a lot of people are scared of this stuff. You know,
I'm not I'm not a highly educated person. I'm just
a hound guy. I work on a ranch. You know,
you can write an email, especially to the committees. If
it makes committee, send an email. It takes five minutes.
(18:33):
You don't need talking points, read the bill and tell
them what you think. They do listen and they do respond.
So that's a Anybody can do this stuff. It's super simple.
And you know that, Kel, you've been in it a
long time with this legislation, and it's very simple to
get the word out. But it also takes a team
(18:54):
to get people involved. And you know, when Colorado did this,
it opened everybody's eyes up. You know, they're like, wow,
we need to do something. You know, when they stormed
the Capitol down there in Denver. It was a big
It was a big showing from the hound guys and
sportsmen alike. And it's very easy to do. It just
takes a little bit of your time. And if this
stuff is important to you, you have to see it
(19:16):
out to preserve it for the future.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well said, Well said, Well, how do folks get a
hold of the Wyoming Houndsman it is.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
We have a Facebook page called the Wyoming Houndsman Association.
You can look us up on there. We also have
a website, the Wyominghoundsminassociation dot org. You can get on
there membership, sponsorships, seeing what we're doing, meet the board,
meet the team. I went to the American Bear Foundation
banquet this year as kind of an affiliation, you know,
(19:50):
did some rafflin, did some live auction stuff. Had a
great time with those guys. Joe Condelius down there at
the American Bear Foundation puts on an amazing banquet usually
else out every year. And that's that's about how you
can get ahold of us. Just watch us on that
Facebook page. Email us email is Wyoming Hounceman Association at
(20:11):
gmail dot com. So you have any questions about what
we do, how we can help your state. If you
guys are fighting something like this, some some tips or
tricks or how to get people unified. You know, we're
pretty young association. We don't we don't know that much,
but we try very hard and I think we're leading
(20:31):
by example.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Heck yeah, I'm gaining gaining that experience. And like like
you said earlier, if you are intimidated to call in
or write in, be it your first time or your
second time or whatever, even go in and testify. Many
times you're going to be shocked if you walk in
that room at how few people are there. And it
makes a big difference. Even if you're not the most
(20:54):
well spoken person out there, that committee or commission is
going to be like, oh boy, people are paying attention
and they care. That's because you showed up. So that
makes an impact.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
It really does. That testifying it can be nerve racking,
but you got to realize they're just people. You voted
for these people to be in there to work for you.
It's your obligation also to show up and voice your opinion.
Send them emails. You know you voted for them. They're
supposed to be representing you, so make sure they.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Know that, Hey, excellent, Well thanks a bunch, Luke. I
appreciate you yet writing in and taking the time to
run us through some good wins. We like hearing that
because sometimes we can get bogged down and how much
other stuff might be going the wrong direction. So I
really appreciate it and hope you get out this weekend
(21:48):
and find that big Tom.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, thank you, Thank you kel for having me on,
and thanks for everything meat Eater does too out there.
You guys spread the word and it's important to all
of us. All of us need to stay on top
of this stuff, especially especially legislationly wise. I really appreciate
you guys. Thank you, thank you,
Host
Cal Callaghan
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