July 9, 2025 • 40 mins
In this week's interview episode, Cal and Jordan chats with Chris Wittman, co-founder of Captains for Clean water, to talk about one of the biggest threats to the Florida Everglades: rock mines built by the sugar industry.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cow Klan.
Here's cal game.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We're catching up with. Are you current? You're current? Do
you still have your captain's license?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh yeah, Captain Chris Whitman Captains for Clean Water. If
you haven't heard of this organization, you're you're probably not.
This is a big assumption, but you're probably not overly
tied in with like the saltwater fishing community, Captains has
grown significantly over the years. Chris will have to chime
(00:47):
in with with how long that is. But we're talking
with Chris today. We're gonna learn more about Captains for
Clean Water. We're gonna learn more about water in the
state of Florida, which is an incredibly nuanced, uh subject,
and and lots of stakeholders involved. And if you don't
know about Florida's surrounded by the ocean, so h and
(01:08):
it's very close to the ocean both in elevation and
uh yeah, perimeter. I guess you'd say, so lots to
learn here, especially for for this Montana kid with me
as always as Jordan Sillers. Jordan's probably a little more
well read on the subject right now, so hopefully he'll
(01:31):
be joining in with some questions. This is another episode
of Cal's Uh Cal of the Wild Cal's We Can
Review interview segment. Thanks for joining along. We got a
lot a lot happening these days. Uh, and you're listening
is so appreciated. So Captain Chris tell us about Captains
(01:51):
for Clean Water.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, hey, guys, thank you for having us on Captains
for Clean Water. We're a grassroots advocacy group, stakeholder group
started by myself and another fishing guide, Daniel Andrews. We
both born and raised in South Florida fishing guides and
hunting guides by trade, and saw the massive decline in
(02:17):
our ecosystem as a result of Florida's water mismanagement, and
ultimately that that led us to such catastrophe in our
in our estuaries here, that it that it kind of
forced us to take a look at where where the
future of our fisheries and where the future of the
(02:38):
Everglades was going, and and that led us onto a
journey of ultimately walking away from our careers as fishing
guides to form Captains for Clean Water to really create
an organization to fill a void. There was science on
the issue of Everglades restoration and restoring the flow of
(02:59):
water from the middle of the state back to the
Everglades where it historically went. There was science on it,
there was engineering on it. The largest bipartisan restoration plan
ever in the history of our country voted into law
in the year two thousand and in twenty sixteen, when
(03:19):
we were in the midst of a water crisis, we
were shocked to find out that, you know, we're at
the halfway point, or should have been at the halfway
point of Everglades restoration, and not a single one of
those projects within that restoration plan had been completed. And
what we recognized was this wasn't an engineering problem, it
(03:41):
wasn't a science problem. There was a void, and the
void was the public. It was the stakeholders who were
impacted who their voice was absent. They just simply people
like Daniel and myself who were fishing guides, grew up
on an island, were not involved in pushing to see
progress happen. As result, there was no political will. Special
(04:02):
interests were able to just kind of dictate and influence politics,
to delay and kick the can down the road and
very little progress was happening. So we built the organization
to be a mechanism to both educate people in the
public about Everglade's restoration and then also be a mechanism
(04:23):
for them to use their voice. And we had the
philosophy that if everybody knew about this problem, it would
have been fixed a long time ago, and if we
could elevate the public pressure through education, that that public
pressure would ultimately be the only thing that we could
do to drive political will to fix these issues. And
(04:45):
so that's why we formed Captains for Clean Water. And what.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I see of Captains, and you and I have been
friends for a while now, is lobbying right, like lobbying
efforts either in d C or at the state level
or state level being state capital and Commission meetings. From
(05:14):
what I see Captains does it does a great job
of just being in that room consistently and providing that
consistent message. Is that like the main driver of why
people should be involved with CAPTAINS.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, I think the main driver is we're you know,
we're talking about the future of a national treasure, the Everglades.
It's no different than if we were talking about Yellowstone
or Boundary Waters or Bristol Bay or anything else. And
so whether you live here or whether the Everglades is
(05:50):
like a bucket list place that you want to come
pursue tarpin or go hiking or camping or whatever, that
should be the main driver of why people should be
involved is just the the ultimate value of the Everglades.
The impact that captains has is you know, the lobbying
point's a good point. For example, we don't have a
(06:13):
single lobbyist in our opinion. You know, a paid lobbyist
is going to go in and push for whatever somebody's
paying them to advocate for. The most powerful lobbying voice
you have, as we know, like what's going on with
the public lands issue right now, is the authentic voice
of the public. And in order for us to empower
(06:38):
the public and the individual stakeholders to bring that authentic
voice and lobby on behalf of themselves or on behalf
of their businesses to d C two policymakers in Tallahassee
or Washington, we have to first educate them on Everglades's restoration.
The fact that you had this massive ecosystem at the
(07:01):
turn of the century, in the early nineteen hundreds that
was drained and diverted and water was bled out, and
the whole thing was compartmentalized, and as a result, the
East coast and the West coast of Florida would get
way too much water in the wet season, and that
water that was destroying those coasts historically would flow down
to the Everglades, So the Everglades would get too dry,
(07:23):
and Florida Bay down in Florida Keys would get too salty,
and so Everglades Restorations as planned to reconnect that system
to allow Lake Okeachobe's waters to flow back through the
River of Grass back to Florida Bay, rehydrating the Everglades
and reducing those damaging discharges to the east and the
West coast. And so in order for us to expect
(07:48):
people to continuously, over the course of years or decades
advocate to see this massive project through to completion, they're
going to have to have an understanding of that problem,
of the solution that's in place to that problem, and
then be able to convey to policy makers how those
(08:10):
issues are symptoms of that water mismanagement affect them personally,
their way of life, their business, anything like that, and
in doing so, we've been able to build a movement
of authentic voices of people who can simply say, this
is affecting me, this is affecting my business, my job,
(08:30):
our employees, our state's economy, a national treasure. And that's
really a message that coming from those individual people resonates.
It can't be denied by policymakers. And it's a lot
different than, you know, the message of a paid lobbyist
that's in there multiple times a week for any number
(08:54):
of issues. When when folks with you know, raccoonized sunglass
tands and scruffy beards and people who definitely do not
look like they fit in in the halls of d
C show up, they get noticed, Yeah darn right.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And they can speak passionately about their issue, right, So
absolutely tell it, tell a good story.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah. And it's and it's they do because they're coming
from such a pure place of somewhere they love or
their lifestyle or the future of of what shapes them
into the people they are. Being able to pass that
on to the next generation is at stake, and so
(09:37):
it's it's just it's just the you know, the old
adage you fight to protect what you love and and
that's going to come through in that message of this
is this is a genuine, honest, authentic movement that is
trying to save a place that's valuable not only to
citizens of Florida, you know, fishing guides like myself, but
(09:58):
to people across the entire country and really around the world.
I mean, the Everglades is an incredible place and it
would be catastrophic to you know, to humanity to lose
it because of bad decisions by people.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And what's going on right now like that, what's the
issue of the day that CAPTAINS is working on. I mean,
obviously none of this stuff happens overnight. I'm going to
go ahead and assume that all those Everglades restoration projects
have not been accomplished. Where are you at?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So when CAPTAINS was formed in twenty sixteen, well, I
guess backup. Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan, we call SERP as
for an acronym, SERP was put into law in the
year two thousand. It was it was bipartisan effort between
President Bill Clinton and Governor Jeb Bush. It's a state
(10:58):
and federal partnership to execute the largest ecosystem restoration project
in the history of our country and it's sixty eight
infrastructure projects to again reconnect that flow, and it was
estimated that it would take thirty years to complete. So
by twenty thirty they thought we would complete this. In
twenty sixteen, not a single one of those sixty eight
(11:19):
projects were completed. Since then, you know, here will be
our organization will be ten years old this next February,
February of twenty six We have now seen over the
last eight years, record funding out of both Washington, d C.
And the State of Florida, year after year after year.
(11:42):
And that was really the way Everglades restoration was stalling.
It wasn't It wasn't the Army Corps of Engineers and
the Water Management District, the agencies involved in building these
projects weren't being funded to the capacity that they needed,
and so they just the projects weren't moving at the
right place. As a result of that massive public pressure,
(12:03):
there's been more political will, and we've seen record funding
out of Governor Desanis out of both of his terms.
We saw record funding from President Trump in his first
term President Biden and then and then again out of
Trump's budget this year. So this is something that in
(12:23):
a world of very divided politics, we see massive support
and it's a result of that public pressure. So where
we are today, over fifty five of those sixty eight
projects are now well underway in construction or have been completed.
We have attended dozens of ribbon cuttings, groundbreakings, and everglades
(12:47):
restoration is now really moving at a lightning pace. The
reality is we have we have a single special interest opposition,
and that's the industrial sugar industry. It's similar to kind
of that issue with Pebble Mine in Bristol Bay, where
you had a special interest pushing politically to get something
(13:12):
that really didn't benefit the United States citizens or the
citizens of Alaska as a whole, and could cause irreversible damage.
The sugar industry here benefits from the status quo of
water management. Water being held back in Lake Okachobee and
no longer able to flow south is almost like a
(13:34):
guarantee of water supply to the sugar industry who's located
primarily directly south of Lake okachobe So it's like that
old archaic way of managing the lake treats the lake
as a reservoir instead of a natural functioning part of
the ecosystem, and the result of that old water management
(13:55):
was it throws off the balance of the entire everglade system.
Too much water to the coasts, not enough water to
the everglades. And so for a long time, you know,
here in Florida and and in d C, the sugar industry,
who's federally subsidized, has has massive tariffs on import sugar
(14:18):
that elevates the price the floor of their product. And
then through a number of subsidy issues, they're they're basically
able to make production of sugar in the United States
much more valuable than in the other parts of the world,
and they take and they put that money back into politics.
(14:39):
And it's it's something that for a long time, before
people were involved, they were able to dictate the the
speed at which these happened through just political influence. And
so you know, we have now seen that that fight
is constant and it's kind of twofold. It's what it
(15:01):
really is is not about growing sugar, and it's it's
not about just restoring the everglades. The fight is really
about controlling water and who controls the water. And you know,
in Florida here water it's not like California and Florida.
Water is public, it's not privatized, and so there's this
(15:22):
effort of how do how does the sugar industry, which
is two big corporations, really how do they get and
maintain as much control over that water as possible? And
that's really what the fight. They see that any water
that is going to the Everglades is water that's not
available to them, and they, you know, they actually went
(15:45):
as far a couple of years ago to sue the
Army Corps of Engineers, who's building the largest components of
Everglades restoration. That the kind of cornerstone or heart of
Everglades restoration being what's called the Glades Agricultural Area Reservoir.
I know, Cal you and I have talked about that before.
It's the EAA Reservoir. It's a reservoir that'll take Lake
(16:08):
Okeachobe's polluted water. We'll take it in during the wet
season instead of discharging it to the coast, We'll clean
it through filter marshes, through engineered wetlands, and then we'll
send that clean water back south to the Everglades in
the dry season to keep that ecosystem hydrated. They sued
the Army Corps of Engineers over the operations of that reservoir,
(16:29):
saying that you know, the core could build it, which
is a four billion dollar reservoir that the taxpayers are
paying for, but that they should be entitled to that
water rather before it would be sent to the Everglades.
And they sued. We filed an amekas brief on behalf
of the Army Corps. It went to the district court
(16:52):
in Miami, where they ruled in favor of the Corps.
They sent the judge there cited our brief, and then
they appealed it and to the appellate court in Atlanta,
and and they recently again ruled in favor of the
Army Corps. So there's been these attempts legally and politically
(17:13):
to control the water in Florida. And that's really the
big fight that those two big industrial sugar companies bring.
And that's the threat that everyglade's restoration has to overcome
over the decades to see it through to completion. And
so you know, where we are today is more progress
(17:34):
than ever before, but under a constant threat of of
you know that that progress being stalled or delayed and
control the water being hijacked, and one of the things
that's happening currently that's it's very similar to the public
lands issue or selling off of public lands, is the
(17:55):
sugar industry is recently proposed to put a rock mine
in the Everglades next to these big restoration projects, and
a couple of issues. One is just the fact of
forty years of mining in the Everglades can have detrimental
ecological impacts, but it could also that EAA reservoir. To
(18:19):
put into perspective for people, it's an above ground reservoir.
So it has a thirty foot burm all the way
around it, and it's this you could put the island
of Manhattan inside of it. It's ten thousand, six hundred acres.
It's massive, and so you've got this massive above ground reservoir,
and you can imagine what thirty or forty years of
blasting one thousand feet away could do to the integrity
(18:42):
of that reservoir, could cause it to leak, and so
real concerns there. But the bigger picture is they're selling
this rock mine as a water resource project, saying, after
forty years of mining, we'll have this hole in the
ground that it'll have water in it and then it
can be available for restoration. And they're doing that because
(19:07):
mining rock mining in the Everglades in itself is prohibited
unless it's for the purpose of building a restoration project.
So they're trying to disguise this forty year long rock
mine as this restoration project. And it's a massive fight.
And the real long term goal there is not the
(19:28):
eight hundred million dollars of aggregate that they would get
out of that land, but is the setting the precedent
to what the future of that land will be. Will
it be available to restoration projects or will it become
rock mines that then who controls that water that is
left over in those holes? And ultimately it's it's a
(19:49):
way for them to tactically gain control or privatize water
that would be otherwise would be public water. And so
it's a massive fight. It's just kind of unfortunately statis
quo to what we're seeing now across the country is
this effort by special interests to you know, take a
(20:11):
grab at public lands and public waters. And the only
effective tool that we all have as Americans to push
back against that is our collective voices.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Chris can I ask what might be a dumb question,
what does the sugar industry want with a rock mine?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So they what is is they've got after decades of
farming in the EAA, the whole land south of Lake
ok chob is very very fertile, like mock soil. It's
peat soil. So when it's hydrated, it's like a sponge.
After decades of a series of you dry it out,
(20:54):
you know, you artificially drain it, you dry it, you
plant it, you flood it, what's happened is the soil
subsides and oxidizes, and so the area in the south
part there near these everglage restoration projects, they've actually lost
up to eight feet of soil and they're hitting caproc
so it's no longer productive area to farm because there's
(21:18):
just not any dirt. So now they're looking at what
is the next resource they can extract from that land.
And here there's limestone and that can be used for
building roads. And as we know, Florida as well as
everywhere in the country, is being developed a lot faster
than we would like to see it. But they're looking at, Okay,
(21:40):
we can extract this limestone, but you're not allowed to
mine in that area unless it's for restoration, So let's
call it a restoration project. So I think if you
look at it in a timeline, what is their goal
is in the next thirty years thirty five years would
be to extract nearly a billion dollars worth of aggregate,
(22:01):
sell that aggregate to the state and development, and then
you would have a sixteen foot deep, eight thousand, six
hundred acre series of holes in the ground that would
be holding water that then the question is who does
that water belong to? You know, this is on their
land now. So I think the thirty year goal is
(22:26):
a billion dollars of aggregate. The real goal is control
of that much water. And here in Florida, it's it's
almost like never ending. It's not just the capacity that
would be in that hole. You dig a hole a
couple of feet deep here, you hit water. So if
you've got this massive hole in the ground, you can
(22:46):
pump water out of it. It almost like just keeps
coming in. So that the long term goal is it's
a it's an attempt to gain control over that water
and then really set the precedent for what will the
rest of the six or six hundred thousand acres of
Everglades agricultural area become when it becomes unfarmable, you know,
(23:08):
will it be rock mines and then developments or will
it be able to be sold to the state to
build actual restoration projects. And you know that's really there's
a multi benefit layer to them. Not it doesn't benefit,
it actually harms the taxpayers. And the fact of can
(23:28):
harm the ecosystem, can threaten everyglades's restoration, can threaten control
of the water being privatized. And then it also elevates
the artificially elevates the value of that land. So if
the state wanted to go in and buy ten thousand
acres of land to build a filter marsh, the value
that lands about ten to twelve thousand dollars an acre. Well,
(23:50):
if now you can make the case that you can
mine it for a billion dollars, now the value that
lands one hundred thousand dollars an acre. So now the
taxpayer's got to spend a billion dollars to acquire the
land before you ever start building a restoration project. And
so it could just lead to restoration in the future
(24:11):
of Everglades restoration almost becoming impossible because of the financial
burden that would come along with it.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Gotcha, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it sounds like a
real pivotal moment in Florida history right now, Like what
way do you want your state to go?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
It is and you know, politically they're very, very powerful.
They've been able to fast track this project through. You know,
there was a law passed last year that changed the
way that a unsolicited proposal goes through the process, where
(24:52):
a normal Everglades restoration project, these projects are identified, they're
designed and developed by the Southfold Water Management District and
the Army Corps of Engineers, and then they seek contractors
to build the designed project and those project designs goes
through years of vetting and studies and analysis to make
(25:14):
sure that they don't have detrimental effects and that they
will in fact benefit Everglade's restoration. They take they go
through years of stakeholder input. Everybody from fishing guides in
the in the tourism industry to the industrial sugar industry.
Everybody can come to the table there and that those
(25:34):
those projects are intentionally very long in their approach. This
new unsolicited proposal process was put into law and it
basically allows in this case, the landowner Sugar and the contractor,
which would just be the contractor that would normally put out,
(25:55):
you know, a bid on building these projects, to propose
a project that wasn't identified or designed by those agencies,
and coincidentally, maybe maybe not, I don't really believe in coincidence,
but when that law was passed forty eight hours later,
this project was the first proposal to ever be put
(26:17):
through that process. And the chain of events that happened
we brought attention to this, something did not smell right.
The applicant being Sugar, withdrew their application and then on
Christmas Eve they sent a letter to the Water Management
(26:40):
District to basically reinitiate this. And then on New Year's Eve,
the executive director of the Water Management District sent a
letter to the Zoning Commission in Palm Beach County, which
is where this project could be located, saying that this
project could possible will be a resource project. And so
(27:02):
it was very suspicious and ever since then it's been
fast tracked through the process, kind of rammed through, circumventing
the public input part of it, and so we've really
been ringing the alarm bells and and recently it's it's
gone viral. We put one of our videos of one
of those interactions now is approaching four million views on YouTube.
(27:27):
And so it's something that the public is furious about
that it's not acceptable, and it's now it's just been
moving at such a fast paced through the political process
that you know, the public is saying, like, we need
to we need to stop and and put put the
brakes on this thing and make and analyze it to
(27:49):
see what the actual impacts could be. And so now
now that's kind of our our biggest focus and biggest battle,
and ultimately it's going to come down to DP revoking
that permit or the governor weighing in and saying, you know,
this could threaten Everglades restoration and we're not going to
(28:12):
move forward with this. You think about that eight thousand
plus acres would be really valuable if they wanted to
turn it into a filter marsh, and that's something that
could be built in a couple of years and we'd
have a functioning, you know, restoration project that would be
cleaning water within a few years versus forty years of
(28:33):
rock mining.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, and so the trade off that they're offering, I imagine,
right is we're going to provide x amount of jobs
for X amount of time. There's probably some sort of
agreement to fund restoration and other places, or that's typically
(28:55):
part of these puzzles somehow, someway as that tracking down there.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, yeah, close the jobs thing. Yes, they're saying that
this will create one hundred and forty jobs. So in
the world of jobs supported by our ecosystem in Florida, like,
that's not even measurable. I mean, the EAA reservoir construction,
which is like a ten year project, is estimated to
(29:22):
create seventy thousand jobs. So one hundred and forty jobs
is It's just it doesn't even compute the.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
That seventy thousand job number. That's probably not direct ditch
digging on the resume.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
No, no, it's not. It's a it's a and that's
the number from the water management district in the Army Corps.
But it's probably direct jobs as far as actual workers
on the ground. And then the fact that you know
all of the infrastructure, the trucking, the hotels, everything that
goes along with that, all the way to the engineers
(30:04):
and scientists and stuff that are analyzing it in other areas.
But that's their number. As far as like the funding
part or funding restoration. The way this is being sold
is they will pay for the startup and then they
would turn it over to the state to take on
(30:28):
the cost of the actual restoration project forty years from now. However,
we've seen this exact scenario with a different reservoir on
the East Coast called the C fifty one Reservoir, where
they proposed it as a public private partnership same way
as this, and said that the landowner and the applicant
(30:48):
would carry the cost. Once they got approval, they went
back to the legislature for funding the very next year,
and so now that project has cost the taxpayers of
Florida almost three hundred million dollars one year. They went
and asked the legislature for fifty million, and the legislature
gave them one hundred million, game twice as much as
(31:10):
they asked for. So we know we know how this
game works. You're going to propose it saying we're going
to provide this this project, and then when we're done,
we'll turn it over and at that point the taxpayers
will pay for it. But what will really happen is
once they get the green light, they'll go back to
the legislature, which they are one of the top political
(31:31):
donors you know, across the board on both sides of
the aisle, and they'll put in a funding request for
appropriations and next thing you know, this will be a
taxpayer funded rock mine that has little to no benefit
to the taxpayers. And so it's it's a it's a
tactic to further subsidize the actions of one of the
(31:54):
most heavily subsidized you know, companies or or u s
interest in the nation. And that's just that's just kind
of their their mo.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Everybody's got patience to wait forty years and see what
happens on good faith, right, that's got to be that's
got to be on your side. What so, what what
can folks do right now? How do they how do
they learn more? And uh, how do they get involved?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Chris, Yeah, thank you for that. I think that the
best thing is is visit Captains for Clean Water. You
can go to our website or follow us on social
if you don't already all of this content we put out.
As you guys know, the key to to really creating
public pressure is to engage on that content. If you
(32:43):
if you see these videos and stuff we put out
about this, like it, share it, comment on it, let
policymakers know how valuable the Everglades is. And then also
if you're interested in in the biggest value is people
having a better understanding and opportunities like this to talk
to you guys, to give people long format information about
(33:06):
these issues. This we're talking about Everglades restoration as a
whole and some of the current struggles. But we just
launched a podcast, Captains for Clean Water podcast. It is
on all your typical platforms that you would typically get
a podcast, as well as on YouTube, and we do
incorporate videos and stuff of some of these interactions at
(33:28):
these agencies. So YouTube is a great place to to
get the full picture. But the very first podcast we
ever did, What is about This Rock Mine and Episode one,
and so I think those ways, you know, plug in
with us on our social follow us, you know, follow
us on on YouTube and listen to that podcast and
(33:50):
educate yourself and engage in the fight and add your
voice to the movement to save the Everglades.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
You got a stake in this right and as I
say often these days, if you're not willing to speak
for it for yourself. Somebody else is going to be
in that room doing it and you may not like
what they say. You're absolutely learn more. Get involved. Sounds
like captains will help you with the tools you need
(34:19):
to confidently stand up there and say your piece. So
what's the fish and report down there, Chris.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Fishing is actually great. Yeah, it's been a fantastic tarpin season.
The red fish and snook bite is very very good
right now. And you know, I think that's a great
way to leave this conversation. Is the even though we've
(34:47):
seen such significant decline and impact in these ecosystems, the
Everglades is still such an incredible fishery and is still
so resilient. If we give these places like the Everglades
the opportunity to be in recovery, they will recover and
(35:07):
and the fishing is great. It's it's just reinforces why
we fight so hard to save this place, because there's
there's no place like it. If you if you've ever
chased tarpin on a fly in in the Glades, you
know exactly what I'm talking about. And uh, if you
haven't and you're a fly fisherman, it should absolutely be
(35:31):
on your bucket list.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Darn right, man, this it's shaping up to be the
second year in a row. I haven't gone down there.
And man, once he once, he kind of make it
part of your schedule. It's kind of a necessary thing.
It's just a different place. Once you're out on the water,
you're not gonna lie. Florida traffic is brutal, brutal, brutal, brutal.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's to me, it's it's my elk hunting. It's like,
once you do it, that's part of your life forever.
And uh, you know, whatever struggles it takes to get
to that point, to be on that mountaintop or be
in the in the in the depths of the Everglades,
it's it's once you're there, it's it's worth it and
it changes you.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh yeah, man. And and you know, we're talking about
this massive public lands steel that we're in. It is
no different than than the water steel, right. And and
if folks over there could contextualize the fact that they
could walk out to that boat slip, have all their
gear ready to roll, and that ocean's been privatized, that
(36:37):
bay has been privatized, that river estuary has been private, privatized,
and you can no longer go out there that that's
what we're dealing with out here in the West right now.
And and those are the places that for the folks
who can't stand that traffic and the congestion, like we need.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
That stuff to to survive, right we do need Fine,
that's it's like that, that's our it's it's you know,
we make the argument a lot of times with policy
makers the economic value, because that's a language they understand.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
But to us, it's it's a spiritual value. It's it's
like who we are. It's where you go to to
be yourself. And without that, it's kind of like you're
you're completely lost. And so no, it's it's you know,
it's it's a lesson that you know, I learned too late.
I believe I'm born and raised here, fourth generation. I
(37:32):
grew up on an island. It was a fishing guide
and it took until I was in my you know,
late thirties to get involved in this. But don't ever
assume that somebody else is going to protect and save
something you love. You. If there's a something impacting something
you care about, you damn well better be part of
(37:54):
that effort, if you expect to to see it, you know,
last in the future.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
That's right, man. And I think another important takeaway for
people is if you're thinking, don't worry all the way
in next election cycle, you're basically saying you're going to
give up on a lot of good stuff before mid
terms or the next big election, right.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And and and if you have this old mindset of oh,
it's it's one side that you know, it's it's the
Republican side or the Democrat side, like that's not how
politics works. That's exactly what they want you to believe.
The reality is massive, powerful special interests. They work, they
have ties across both sides of the aisle, whoever's in powers,
(38:41):
who they're leveraging. And there's no political party that's going
to come to your rescue. There's no single organization that's
going to come to your rescue. The only thing that
will come to rescue these places and special areas is
the collective voice of the people. And that's it if
we demand, if we demand it, and then there is
(39:04):
you start putting your eggs in one political party or
the other, or or whatever it's, you will lose. You
absolutely will lose.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Darn right well, Thanks a bunch, Chris. We'll get you
back on here for some updates. If all these awesome
listeners have any questions for Captain Chris Whitman, you can
get a hold of him directly at Captains for Clean Water.
But if you want to reach out to ask c
A l. That's Askcal at the Meteater dot com. We
(39:35):
will him back on to answer those, or we can
connect with them and answer them here on the show.
Thanks a bunch, Chris, keep fighting a good fight, keep
us posted, and we'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Thank you Kyle, Thank you Jordan. Appreciate the opportunity.
From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cow Klan.
Here's cal game.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We're catching up with. Are you current? You're current? Do
you still have your captain's license?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh yeah, Captain Chris Whitman Captains for Clean Water. If
you haven't heard of this organization, you're you're probably not.
This is a big assumption, but you're probably not overly
tied in with like the saltwater fishing community, Captains has
grown significantly over the years. Chris will have to chime
(00:47):
in with with how long that is. But we're talking
with Chris today. We're gonna learn more about Captains for
Clean Water. We're gonna learn more about water in the
state of Florida, which is an incredibly nuanced, uh subject,
and and lots of stakeholders involved. And if you don't
know about Florida's surrounded by the ocean, so h and
(01:08):
it's very close to the ocean both in elevation and
uh yeah, perimeter. I guess you'd say, so lots to
learn here, especially for for this Montana kid with me
as always as Jordan Sillers. Jordan's probably a little more
well read on the subject right now, so hopefully he'll
(01:31):
be joining in with some questions. This is another episode
of Cal's Uh Cal of the Wild Cal's We Can
Review interview segment. Thanks for joining along. We got a
lot a lot happening these days. Uh, and you're listening
is so appreciated. So Captain Chris tell us about Captains
(01:51):
for Clean Water.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, hey, guys, thank you for having us on Captains
for Clean Water. We're a grassroots advocacy group, stakeholder group
started by myself and another fishing guide, Daniel Andrews. We
both born and raised in South Florida fishing guides and
hunting guides by trade, and saw the massive decline in
(02:17):
our ecosystem as a result of Florida's water mismanagement, and
ultimately that that led us to such catastrophe in our
in our estuaries here, that it that it kind of
forced us to take a look at where where the
future of our fisheries and where the future of the
(02:38):
Everglades was going, and and that led us onto a
journey of ultimately walking away from our careers as fishing
guides to form Captains for Clean Water to really create
an organization to fill a void. There was science on
the issue of Everglades restoration and restoring the flow of
(02:59):
water from the middle of the state back to the
Everglades where it historically went. There was science on it,
there was engineering on it. The largest bipartisan restoration plan
ever in the history of our country voted into law
in the year two thousand and in twenty sixteen, when
(03:19):
we were in the midst of a water crisis, we
were shocked to find out that, you know, we're at
the halfway point, or should have been at the halfway
point of Everglades restoration, and not a single one of
those projects within that restoration plan had been completed. And
what we recognized was this wasn't an engineering problem, it
(03:41):
wasn't a science problem. There was a void, and the
void was the public. It was the stakeholders who were
impacted who their voice was absent. They just simply people
like Daniel and myself who were fishing guides, grew up
on an island, were not involved in pushing to see
progress happen. As result, there was no political will. Special
(04:02):
interests were able to just kind of dictate and influence politics,
to delay and kick the can down the road and
very little progress was happening. So we built the organization
to be a mechanism to both educate people in the
public about Everglade's restoration and then also be a mechanism
(04:23):
for them to use their voice. And we had the
philosophy that if everybody knew about this problem, it would
have been fixed a long time ago, and if we
could elevate the public pressure through education, that that public
pressure would ultimately be the only thing that we could
do to drive political will to fix these issues. And
(04:45):
so that's why we formed Captains for Clean Water. And what.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I see of Captains, and you and I have been
friends for a while now, is lobbying right, like lobbying
efforts either in d C or at the state level
or state level being state capital and Commission meetings. From
(05:14):
what I see Captains does it does a great job
of just being in that room consistently and providing that
consistent message. Is that like the main driver of why
people should be involved with CAPTAINS.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, I think the main driver is we're you know,
we're talking about the future of a national treasure, the Everglades.
It's no different than if we were talking about Yellowstone
or Boundary Waters or Bristol Bay or anything else. And
so whether you live here or whether the Everglades is
(05:50):
like a bucket list place that you want to come
pursue tarpin or go hiking or camping or whatever, that
should be the main driver of why people should be
involved is just the the ultimate value of the Everglades.
The impact that captains has is you know, the lobbying
point's a good point. For example, we don't have a
(06:13):
single lobbyist in our opinion. You know, a paid lobbyist
is going to go in and push for whatever somebody's
paying them to advocate for. The most powerful lobbying voice
you have, as we know, like what's going on with
the public lands issue right now, is the authentic voice
of the public. And in order for us to empower
(06:38):
the public and the individual stakeholders to bring that authentic
voice and lobby on behalf of themselves or on behalf
of their businesses to d C two policymakers in Tallahassee
or Washington, we have to first educate them on Everglades's restoration.
The fact that you had this massive ecosystem at the
(07:01):
turn of the century, in the early nineteen hundreds that
was drained and diverted and water was bled out, and
the whole thing was compartmentalized, and as a result, the
East coast and the West coast of Florida would get
way too much water in the wet season, and that
water that was destroying those coasts historically would flow down
to the Everglades, So the Everglades would get too dry,
(07:23):
and Florida Bay down in Florida Keys would get too salty,
and so Everglades Restorations as planned to reconnect that system
to allow Lake Okeachobe's waters to flow back through the
River of Grass back to Florida Bay, rehydrating the Everglades
and reducing those damaging discharges to the east and the
West coast. And so in order for us to expect
(07:48):
people to continuously, over the course of years or decades
advocate to see this massive project through to completion, they're
going to have to have an understanding of that problem,
of the solution that's in place to that problem, and
then be able to convey to policy makers how those
(08:10):
issues are symptoms of that water mismanagement affect them personally,
their way of life, their business, anything like that, and
in doing so, we've been able to build a movement
of authentic voices of people who can simply say, this
is affecting me, this is affecting my business, my job,
(08:30):
our employees, our state's economy, a national treasure. And that's
really a message that coming from those individual people resonates.
It can't be denied by policymakers. And it's a lot
different than, you know, the message of a paid lobbyist
that's in there multiple times a week for any number
(08:54):
of issues. When when folks with you know, raccoonized sunglass
tands and scruffy beards and people who definitely do not
look like they fit in in the halls of d
C show up, they get noticed, Yeah darn right.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And they can speak passionately about their issue, right, So
absolutely tell it, tell a good story.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah. And it's and it's they do because they're coming
from such a pure place of somewhere they love or
their lifestyle or the future of of what shapes them
into the people they are. Being able to pass that
on to the next generation is at stake, and so
(09:37):
it's it's just it's just the you know, the old
adage you fight to protect what you love and and
that's going to come through in that message of this
is this is a genuine, honest, authentic movement that is
trying to save a place that's valuable not only to
citizens of Florida, you know, fishing guides like myself, but
(09:58):
to people across the entire country and really around the world.
I mean, the Everglades is an incredible place and it
would be catastrophic to you know, to humanity to lose
it because of bad decisions by people.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And what's going on right now like that, what's the
issue of the day that CAPTAINS is working on. I mean,
obviously none of this stuff happens overnight. I'm going to
go ahead and assume that all those Everglades restoration projects
have not been accomplished. Where are you at?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So when CAPTAINS was formed in twenty sixteen, well, I
guess backup. Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan, we call SERP as
for an acronym, SERP was put into law in the
year two thousand. It was it was bipartisan effort between
President Bill Clinton and Governor Jeb Bush. It's a state
(10:58):
and federal partnership to execute the largest ecosystem restoration project
in the history of our country and it's sixty eight
infrastructure projects to again reconnect that flow, and it was
estimated that it would take thirty years to complete. So
by twenty thirty they thought we would complete this. In
twenty sixteen, not a single one of those sixty eight
(11:19):
projects were completed. Since then, you know, here will be
our organization will be ten years old this next February,
February of twenty six We have now seen over the
last eight years, record funding out of both Washington, d C.
And the State of Florida, year after year after year.
(11:42):
And that was really the way Everglades restoration was stalling.
It wasn't It wasn't the Army Corps of Engineers and
the Water Management District, the agencies involved in building these
projects weren't being funded to the capacity that they needed,
and so they just the projects weren't moving at the
right place. As a result of that massive public pressure,
(12:03):
there's been more political will, and we've seen record funding
out of Governor Desanis out of both of his terms.
We saw record funding from President Trump in his first
term President Biden and then and then again out of
Trump's budget this year. So this is something that in
(12:23):
a world of very divided politics, we see massive support
and it's a result of that public pressure. So where
we are today, over fifty five of those sixty eight
projects are now well underway in construction or have been completed.
We have attended dozens of ribbon cuttings, groundbreakings, and everglades
(12:47):
restoration is now really moving at a lightning pace. The
reality is we have we have a single special interest opposition,
and that's the industrial sugar industry. It's similar to kind
of that issue with Pebble Mine in Bristol Bay, where
you had a special interest pushing politically to get something
(13:12):
that really didn't benefit the United States citizens or the
citizens of Alaska as a whole, and could cause irreversible damage.
The sugar industry here benefits from the status quo of
water management. Water being held back in Lake Okachobee and
no longer able to flow south is almost like a
(13:34):
guarantee of water supply to the sugar industry who's located
primarily directly south of Lake okachobe So it's like that
old archaic way of managing the lake treats the lake
as a reservoir instead of a natural functioning part of
the ecosystem, and the result of that old water management
(13:55):
was it throws off the balance of the entire everglade system.
Too much water to the coasts, not enough water to
the everglades. And so for a long time, you know,
here in Florida and and in d C, the sugar industry,
who's federally subsidized, has has massive tariffs on import sugar
(14:18):
that elevates the price the floor of their product. And
then through a number of subsidy issues, they're they're basically
able to make production of sugar in the United States
much more valuable than in the other parts of the world,
and they take and they put that money back into politics.
(14:39):
And it's it's something that for a long time, before
people were involved, they were able to dictate the the
speed at which these happened through just political influence. And
so you know, we have now seen that that fight
is constant and it's kind of twofold. It's what it
(15:01):
really is is not about growing sugar, and it's it's
not about just restoring the everglades. The fight is really
about controlling water and who controls the water. And you know,
in Florida here water it's not like California and Florida.
Water is public, it's not privatized, and so there's this
(15:22):
effort of how do how does the sugar industry, which
is two big corporations, really how do they get and
maintain as much control over that water as possible? And
that's really what the fight. They see that any water
that is going to the Everglades is water that's not
available to them, and they, you know, they actually went
(15:45):
as far a couple of years ago to sue the
Army Corps of Engineers, who's building the largest components of
Everglades restoration. That the kind of cornerstone or heart of
Everglades restoration being what's called the Glades Agricultural Area Reservoir.
I know, Cal you and I have talked about that before.
It's the EAA Reservoir. It's a reservoir that'll take Lake
(16:08):
Okeachobe's polluted water. We'll take it in during the wet
season instead of discharging it to the coast, We'll clean
it through filter marshes, through engineered wetlands, and then we'll
send that clean water back south to the Everglades in
the dry season to keep that ecosystem hydrated. They sued
the Army Corps of Engineers over the operations of that reservoir,
(16:29):
saying that you know, the core could build it, which
is a four billion dollar reservoir that the taxpayers are
paying for, but that they should be entitled to that
water rather before it would be sent to the Everglades.
And they sued. We filed an amekas brief on behalf
of the Army Corps. It went to the district court
(16:52):
in Miami, where they ruled in favor of the Corps.
They sent the judge there cited our brief, and then
they appealed it and to the appellate court in Atlanta,
and and they recently again ruled in favor of the
Army Corps. So there's been these attempts legally and politically
(17:13):
to control the water in Florida. And that's really the
big fight that those two big industrial sugar companies bring.
And that's the threat that everyglade's restoration has to overcome
over the decades to see it through to completion. And
so you know, where we are today is more progress
(17:34):
than ever before, but under a constant threat of of
you know that that progress being stalled or delayed and
control the water being hijacked, and one of the things
that's happening currently that's it's very similar to the public
lands issue or selling off of public lands, is the
(17:55):
sugar industry is recently proposed to put a rock mine
in the Everglades next to these big restoration projects, and
a couple of issues. One is just the fact of
forty years of mining in the Everglades can have detrimental
ecological impacts, but it could also that EAA reservoir. To
(18:19):
put into perspective for people, it's an above ground reservoir.
So it has a thirty foot burm all the way
around it, and it's this you could put the island
of Manhattan inside of it. It's ten thousand, six hundred acres.
It's massive, and so you've got this massive above ground reservoir,
and you can imagine what thirty or forty years of
blasting one thousand feet away could do to the integrity
(18:42):
of that reservoir, could cause it to leak, and so
real concerns there. But the bigger picture is they're selling
this rock mine as a water resource project, saying, after
forty years of mining, we'll have this hole in the
ground that it'll have water in it and then it
can be available for restoration. And they're doing that because
(19:07):
mining rock mining in the Everglades in itself is prohibited
unless it's for the purpose of building a restoration project.
So they're trying to disguise this forty year long rock
mine as this restoration project. And it's a massive fight.
And the real long term goal there is not the
(19:28):
eight hundred million dollars of aggregate that they would get
out of that land, but is the setting the precedent
to what the future of that land will be. Will
it be available to restoration projects or will it become
rock mines that then who controls that water that is
left over in those holes? And ultimately it's it's a
(19:49):
way for them to tactically gain control or privatize water
that would be otherwise would be public water. And so
it's a massive fight. It's just kind of unfortunately statis
quo to what we're seeing now across the country is
this effort by special interests to you know, take a
(20:11):
grab at public lands and public waters. And the only
effective tool that we all have as Americans to push
back against that is our collective voices.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Chris can I ask what might be a dumb question,
what does the sugar industry want with a rock mine?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So they what is is they've got after decades of
farming in the EAA, the whole land south of Lake
ok chob is very very fertile, like mock soil. It's
peat soil. So when it's hydrated, it's like a sponge.
After decades of a series of you dry it out,
(20:54):
you know, you artificially drain it, you dry it, you
plant it, you flood it, what's happened is the soil
subsides and oxidizes, and so the area in the south
part there near these everglage restoration projects, they've actually lost
up to eight feet of soil and they're hitting caproc
so it's no longer productive area to farm because there's
(21:18):
just not any dirt. So now they're looking at what
is the next resource they can extract from that land.
And here there's limestone and that can be used for
building roads. And as we know, Florida as well as
everywhere in the country, is being developed a lot faster
than we would like to see it. But they're looking at, Okay,
(21:40):
we can extract this limestone, but you're not allowed to
mine in that area unless it's for restoration, So let's
call it a restoration project. So I think if you
look at it in a timeline, what is their goal
is in the next thirty years thirty five years would
be to extract nearly a billion dollars worth of aggregate,
(22:01):
sell that aggregate to the state and development, and then
you would have a sixteen foot deep, eight thousand, six
hundred acre series of holes in the ground that would
be holding water that then the question is who does
that water belong to? You know, this is on their
land now. So I think the thirty year goal is
(22:26):
a billion dollars of aggregate. The real goal is control
of that much water. And here in Florida, it's it's
almost like never ending. It's not just the capacity that
would be in that hole. You dig a hole a
couple of feet deep here, you hit water. So if
you've got this massive hole in the ground, you can
(22:46):
pump water out of it. It almost like just keeps
coming in. So that the long term goal is it's
a it's an attempt to gain control over that water
and then really set the precedent for what will the
rest of the six or six hundred thousand acres of
Everglades agricultural area become when it becomes unfarmable, you know,
(23:08):
will it be rock mines and then developments or will
it be able to be sold to the state to
build actual restoration projects. And you know that's really there's
a multi benefit layer to them. Not it doesn't benefit,
it actually harms the taxpayers. And the fact of can
(23:28):
harm the ecosystem, can threaten everyglades's restoration, can threaten control
of the water being privatized. And then it also elevates
the artificially elevates the value of that land. So if
the state wanted to go in and buy ten thousand
acres of land to build a filter marsh, the value
that lands about ten to twelve thousand dollars an acre. Well,
(23:50):
if now you can make the case that you can
mine it for a billion dollars, now the value that
lands one hundred thousand dollars an acre. So now the
taxpayer's got to spend a billion dollars to acquire the
land before you ever start building a restoration project. And
so it could just lead to restoration in the future
(24:11):
of Everglades restoration almost becoming impossible because of the financial
burden that would come along with it.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Gotcha, Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it sounds like a
real pivotal moment in Florida history right now, Like what
way do you want your state to go?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
It is and you know, politically they're very, very powerful.
They've been able to fast track this project through. You know,
there was a law passed last year that changed the
way that a unsolicited proposal goes through the process, where
(24:52):
a normal Everglades restoration project, these projects are identified, they're
designed and developed by the Southfold Water Management District and
the Army Corps of Engineers, and then they seek contractors
to build the designed project and those project designs goes
through years of vetting and studies and analysis to make
(25:14):
sure that they don't have detrimental effects and that they
will in fact benefit Everglade's restoration. They take they go
through years of stakeholder input. Everybody from fishing guides in
the in the tourism industry to the industrial sugar industry.
Everybody can come to the table there and that those
(25:34):
those projects are intentionally very long in their approach. This
new unsolicited proposal process was put into law and it
basically allows in this case, the landowner Sugar and the contractor,
which would just be the contractor that would normally put out,
(25:55):
you know, a bid on building these projects, to propose
a project that wasn't identified or designed by those agencies,
and coincidentally, maybe maybe not, I don't really believe in coincidence,
but when that law was passed forty eight hours later,
this project was the first proposal to ever be put
(26:17):
through that process. And the chain of events that happened
we brought attention to this, something did not smell right.
The applicant being Sugar, withdrew their application and then on
Christmas Eve they sent a letter to the Water Management
(26:40):
District to basically reinitiate this. And then on New Year's Eve,
the executive director of the Water Management District sent a
letter to the Zoning Commission in Palm Beach County, which
is where this project could be located, saying that this
project could possible will be a resource project. And so
(27:02):
it was very suspicious and ever since then it's been
fast tracked through the process, kind of rammed through, circumventing
the public input part of it, and so we've really
been ringing the alarm bells and and recently it's it's
gone viral. We put one of our videos of one
of those interactions now is approaching four million views on YouTube.
(27:27):
And so it's something that the public is furious about
that it's not acceptable, and it's now it's just been
moving at such a fast paced through the political process
that you know, the public is saying, like, we need
to we need to stop and and put put the
brakes on this thing and make and analyze it to
(27:49):
see what the actual impacts could be. And so now
now that's kind of our our biggest focus and biggest battle,
and ultimately it's going to come down to DP revoking
that permit or the governor weighing in and saying, you know,
this could threaten Everglades restoration and we're not going to
(28:12):
move forward with this. You think about that eight thousand
plus acres would be really valuable if they wanted to
turn it into a filter marsh, and that's something that
could be built in a couple of years and we'd
have a functioning, you know, restoration project that would be
cleaning water within a few years versus forty years of
(28:33):
rock mining.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, and so the trade off that they're offering, I imagine,
right is we're going to provide x amount of jobs
for X amount of time. There's probably some sort of
agreement to fund restoration and other places, or that's typically
(28:55):
part of these puzzles somehow, someway as that tracking down there.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, yeah, close the jobs thing. Yes, they're saying that
this will create one hundred and forty jobs. So in
the world of jobs supported by our ecosystem in Florida, like,
that's not even measurable. I mean, the EAA reservoir construction,
which is like a ten year project, is estimated to
(29:22):
create seventy thousand jobs. So one hundred and forty jobs
is It's just it doesn't even compute the.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
That seventy thousand job number. That's probably not direct ditch
digging on the resume.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
No, no, it's not. It's a it's a and that's
the number from the water management district in the Army Corps.
But it's probably direct jobs as far as actual workers
on the ground. And then the fact that you know
all of the infrastructure, the trucking, the hotels, everything that
goes along with that, all the way to the engineers
(30:04):
and scientists and stuff that are analyzing it in other areas.
But that's their number. As far as like the funding
part or funding restoration. The way this is being sold
is they will pay for the startup and then they
would turn it over to the state to take on
(30:28):
the cost of the actual restoration project forty years from now. However,
we've seen this exact scenario with a different reservoir on
the East Coast called the C fifty one Reservoir, where
they proposed it as a public private partnership same way
as this, and said that the landowner and the applicant
(30:48):
would carry the cost. Once they got approval, they went
back to the legislature for funding the very next year,
and so now that project has cost the taxpayers of
Florida almost three hundred million dollars one year. They went
and asked the legislature for fifty million, and the legislature
gave them one hundred million, game twice as much as
(31:10):
they asked for. So we know we know how this
game works. You're going to propose it saying we're going
to provide this this project, and then when we're done,
we'll turn it over and at that point the taxpayers
will pay for it. But what will really happen is
once they get the green light, they'll go back to
the legislature, which they are one of the top political
(31:31):
donors you know, across the board on both sides of
the aisle, and they'll put in a funding request for
appropriations and next thing you know, this will be a
taxpayer funded rock mine that has little to no benefit
to the taxpayers. And so it's it's a it's a
tactic to further subsidize the actions of one of the
(31:54):
most heavily subsidized you know, companies or or u s
interest in the nation. And that's just that's just kind
of their their mo.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Everybody's got patience to wait forty years and see what
happens on good faith, right, that's got to be that's
got to be on your side. What so, what what
can folks do right now? How do they how do
they learn more? And uh, how do they get involved?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Chris, Yeah, thank you for that. I think that the
best thing is is visit Captains for Clean Water. You
can go to our website or follow us on social
if you don't already all of this content we put out.
As you guys know, the key to to really creating
public pressure is to engage on that content. If you
(32:43):
if you see these videos and stuff we put out
about this, like it, share it, comment on it, let
policymakers know how valuable the Everglades is. And then also
if you're interested in in the biggest value is people
having a better understanding and opportunities like this to talk
to you guys, to give people long format information about
(33:06):
these issues. This we're talking about Everglades restoration as a
whole and some of the current struggles. But we just
launched a podcast, Captains for Clean Water podcast. It is
on all your typical platforms that you would typically get
a podcast, as well as on YouTube, and we do
incorporate videos and stuff of some of these interactions at
(33:28):
these agencies. So YouTube is a great place to to
get the full picture. But the very first podcast we
ever did, What is about This Rock Mine and Episode one,
and so I think those ways, you know, plug in
with us on our social follow us, you know, follow
us on on YouTube and listen to that podcast and
(33:50):
educate yourself and engage in the fight and add your
voice to the movement to save the Everglades.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
You got a stake in this right and as I
say often these days, if you're not willing to speak
for it for yourself. Somebody else is going to be
in that room doing it and you may not like
what they say. You're absolutely learn more. Get involved. Sounds
like captains will help you with the tools you need
(34:19):
to confidently stand up there and say your piece. So
what's the fish and report down there, Chris.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Fishing is actually great. Yeah, it's been a fantastic tarpin season.
The red fish and snook bite is very very good
right now. And you know, I think that's a great
way to leave this conversation. Is the even though we've
(34:47):
seen such significant decline and impact in these ecosystems, the
Everglades is still such an incredible fishery and is still
so resilient. If we give these places like the Everglades
the opportunity to be in recovery, they will recover and
(35:07):
and the fishing is great. It's it's just reinforces why
we fight so hard to save this place, because there's
there's no place like it. If you if you've ever
chased tarpin on a fly in in the Glades, you
know exactly what I'm talking about. And uh, if you
haven't and you're a fly fisherman, it should absolutely be
(35:31):
on your bucket list.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Darn right, man, this it's shaping up to be the
second year in a row. I haven't gone down there.
And man, once he once, he kind of make it
part of your schedule. It's kind of a necessary thing.
It's just a different place. Once you're out on the water,
you're not gonna lie. Florida traffic is brutal, brutal, brutal, brutal.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's to me, it's it's my elk hunting. It's like,
once you do it, that's part of your life forever.
And uh, you know, whatever struggles it takes to get
to that point, to be on that mountaintop or be
in the in the in the depths of the Everglades,
it's it's once you're there, it's it's worth it and
it changes you.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh yeah, man. And and you know, we're talking about
this massive public lands steel that we're in. It is
no different than than the water steel, right. And and
if folks over there could contextualize the fact that they
could walk out to that boat slip, have all their
gear ready to roll, and that ocean's been privatized, that
(36:37):
bay has been privatized, that river estuary has been private, privatized,
and you can no longer go out there that that's
what we're dealing with out here in the West right now.
And and those are the places that for the folks
who can't stand that traffic and the congestion, like we need.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
That stuff to to survive, right we do need Fine,
that's it's like that, that's our it's it's you know,
we make the argument a lot of times with policy
makers the economic value, because that's a language they understand.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
But to us, it's it's a spiritual value. It's it's
like who we are. It's where you go to to
be yourself. And without that, it's kind of like you're
you're completely lost. And so no, it's it's you know,
it's it's a lesson that you know, I learned too late.
I believe I'm born and raised here, fourth generation. I
(37:32):
grew up on an island. It was a fishing guide
and it took until I was in my you know,
late thirties to get involved in this. But don't ever
assume that somebody else is going to protect and save
something you love. You. If there's a something impacting something
you care about, you damn well better be part of
(37:54):
that effort, if you expect to to see it, you know,
last in the future.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
That's right, man. And I think another important takeaway for
people is if you're thinking, don't worry all the way
in next election cycle, you're basically saying you're going to
give up on a lot of good stuff before mid
terms or the next big election, right.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And and and if you have this old mindset of oh,
it's it's one side that you know, it's it's the
Republican side or the Democrat side, like that's not how
politics works. That's exactly what they want you to believe.
The reality is massive, powerful special interests. They work, they
have ties across both sides of the aisle, whoever's in powers,
(38:41):
who they're leveraging. And there's no political party that's going
to come to your rescue. There's no single organization that's
going to come to your rescue. The only thing that
will come to rescue these places and special areas is
the collective voice of the people. And that's it if
we demand, if we demand it, and then there is
(39:04):
you start putting your eggs in one political party or
the other, or or whatever it's, you will lose. You
absolutely will lose.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Darn right well, Thanks a bunch, Chris. We'll get you
back on here for some updates. If all these awesome
listeners have any questions for Captain Chris Whitman, you can
get a hold of him directly at Captains for Clean Water.
But if you want to reach out to ask c
A l. That's Askcal at the Meteater dot com. We
(39:35):
will him back on to answer those, or we can
connect with them and answer them here on the show.
Thanks a bunch, Chris, keep fighting a good fight, keep
us posted, and we'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Thank you Kyle, Thank you Jordan. Appreciate the opportunity.
Host
Cal Callaghan
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