March 17, 2025 • 37 mins
Gossiping may not be as bad as you think...
Jess and Camilla talk about the good, the bad, and navigating the secret “spicy” list that comes with it.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew,
and welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Call It What It Is?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Can I talk about my few minutes running up to
me hopping on here?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah. So it's the afternoon in Los Angeles and my son,
he's in preschool, comes home from school and he walks
through the door and I'm like, II, you know, like
snuggle in your hair, like nuzzle him, lots of kisses
all over the head. Let's do you know, little eskimo
eyelash kisses, you know, just so close and delicious together.
(00:54):
And my phone was like pooh, and I'm like, okay,
So I look at this and I'm like, oh, it's
an email for in school and it's like, Hi, your
kid might have lice. I've definitely like rubbed my entire
set of extensions all over them.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
The silkwood shower. I'm surprised you didn't go you know,
I'm surprised you didn't cancel and go straight for the
silkwood shower.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, he's in the shower as we speak, Matt was
I was like Matt, But I spent my time like,
thank god, the Luddington jeans give you about one strand
of hair, right, so it's like that checking don's gonna
need extension. So I it took me, like, you know,
a minute to check because it was like just that
strand and it looked fine and we had moved on
(01:40):
with our lives.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
One of the funniest memes you ever are gifts whatever
they are called. Yeah, the funniest ones you've ever sent me.
When we were going back and forth about how we
feel with it without extension, was you saying that after
getting them out? Well, the meme you sent me was
a Gollum.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is in fact, Gollum has more hair.
And then I thought it was so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I actually went searching for more Glumn memes, gifts, whatever.
And sometimes he has a comb over.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Sometimes that's the one I'm thinking about. I'm thinking of
the comb over.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, so you're thinking the Luddington hair. The Luddington hair
is gallimal.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
But also the email said, you know, like of course
there they have to be diplomatic and they're like, you know,
I can't tell Yeah, yeah, they're not gonna tell me
who So Matt and I are doing this like casual
interrogation of a four year old and we're like, was
anyone like it a lot about sick today, like were
they at school? And then not at school? But it's like,
you know, Lucas is so annoying and he'll be like
(02:42):
a t rex came today. So it's like the lies
and he was like that, you know, he's mentioning one
kid that's not in school, and we're like, was he
in school? A little bit though? He's like no, no,
and it's like we're it's a full blown interrogation. We
got no information. He didn't give us anything, but he's
in the shower right now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah. I mean I wish I could tell you that
showers fixed lie.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
They don't you need the special shampoo.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I remember the smell of the shampoo when I was
a kid. Do you were a lie shampoo?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It was like, I mean, not anymore. But I was
a real blonde at one point, and lice on real
blondes is harder.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Oh really, because I was thinking that we were lucky,
you know what I did, because they're a little bit translucent.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah you can't see them. Yeah, I remember I love you, mom.
I remember being left to my own devices with that ship,
like I remember that when I had it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, here's the comb, here's the shampoo. How about it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, I mean it's all but like raid right, like
it's it's raid in a bottle space.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Basically it is, we do have raid. We do have raids. Idea,
that's not what you should do.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I joke.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
This is a joke, disclaimer and not to do this.
Here's what I can.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Tell you is if well, I will say this is
actually practical advice from mother of four, if in fact
there is a chance that he could have it. The
upholstery is really challenging to get lice out of, so
you know, maybe just put him in a plastic bag
and carry him around the house and just don't let
(04:16):
him touch anything. No couches for him. Yeah yeah, yeah,
maybe maybe he sleeps outside tonight.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I like the dom bed.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
The dom bed, yeah, if you're willing to wash it,
but yeah, you could just throw it, but you can
can't take off the cover and wash it in them
in them in the you know washing machine. Yeah, it's
really rough.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well I'm crossing my fingers that that is that We're fine.
The one strand so far looks clean to me, and
it's being shampooed right now.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, right, And a very high temperature of water doesn't matter,
by the way.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No it doesn't. They love that temperature.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
They're doing the backstroke and that is taken.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's like a hold tub. Okay, how is your afternoon?
Tell me before we dive in.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Uh, well, you know we talked about this before. Spring
is springing here, and so I have a spring in
my step and I am if you are seeing me
on camera, I'm in a cardigan and hold on tanked up.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Wow. I know it's your favorite season.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It miracle season.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It is, Yes, it is, yes it is. But is
it still cold there or no?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Now it's like gonna if you would come here and
be like it's racing. Yeah, yeah, but it's not that cold.
And spring is springing and I feel it coming around
the corner. And not to get too you know, mystical
about things, but I do really think that spring is
a chance and an opportunity for new beginnings. Yeah, not
(05:51):
just in the physical world, but in your own ideas
about things. I have felt really grateful because there's been
a lot of things that's like sort of swirling around
me that have to do with some opportunities.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well, I know, I know, we can't say more. We
can't say more. Yeah, but that's good. I agree. I
think I think Spring has that like a little magic
in the air. This is how I feel about Fall too,
obviously Christmas, but like I do, I feel like there's
a little like who it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Also, before I got on, because this leads into our episode,
I was on the old TikTok, right because I've I've
I'm less on Instagram and I'm more on TikTok and
you know me, this is a skinny ball of the alien.
I get sucked down these little holes, right, And I
realized how gossipy TikTok is, right, Yeah, and I am
(06:52):
getting sucked into all this gossip that has nothing to
do with me. I'm like people, you know, like people
are splitting that I don't even you know in I
have no idea, you don't even know our aunts on TikTok.
Now I'm involved. Yeah, And I thought about.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It and they wanted they were actually quite frankly, they
would like for you to be involved and maybe have
a voice in it.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yes, And I thought about how well what do you
want to introduce our subject, because then I'm going to
lead into what I thought. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I mean today we're talking about I saw a headline
last week, which we'll talk about, but we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Gossip, yes, and I felt like, oh, we are in
the new era, especially with TikTok, of global gossip on
a scale that we've never seen before. Obviously there's been tabloids, yes,
and I feel like the tabloidy part of stuff was
always like you know, Michael Jackson, whoever it was, was like,
(07:48):
you know, but now I really feel yourself there. Well yeah,
because I'm thinking of those like National Inquirers too, that
were like, you know, this is aligning yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, I mean National acquire had quite a few alien articles.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So maybe I don't know about that because it's where.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It's where your affections, where it started began.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
But what I what I think social media does is
now on a very it doesn't you don't have to
be this crazy celebrity like Elvis Presley. Now it's like
you can get on social media on TikTok and you
can gossip about what just went down at the wedding
you went to. And I'm like, oh, oh no, it's
like scaled up in our world.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, people you don't even know, but it's all story, right,
Like that's the thing that I thought was interesting. So
so the origin story of us having this conversation was
that a headline grabbed mine eye, which was the surprising
benefits of gossip. Because I actually always I have relegated
(08:57):
gossip to a very negative category. I've always been like,
gossip is terrible, you should not gossip, and you know
when you gossip, bad things happen and whatever. So I
was sort of just I was taken by this headline
and I really wanted to understand why or how there
were surprising benefits to gossip, and I think it's very interesting.
(09:20):
So I shared it with you, and then we were
talking about our own relationships to gossip. And and by
the way, I want to be very very clear as
we talk about the benefits of gossip, which really bottom
line have to do with going back to kind of
a like our earlier origins and like tribal behavior where
we were got to live in clans and groups that
(09:42):
were tight knit and small, like it was our way
of socializing and bonding. And you know, we like kibbitzing
and talking about our days and having that bring us
closer together. There's also another version of gossip being that's
you know, can can border of dis actually be bullying, right, like,
oh yeah, gossip about someone that's not true. But I
(10:03):
think that I think that the surprising benefits of gossip
would be far more in the category of true information,
passing it on and then creating a relationship around new news.
But it's not being given to you from a news
outlet that might have it might or might not have
an agenda, but really from a person. So you're saying
(10:27):
yours was from TikTok, So I guess that's kind of
different because that is.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Well, I'm just I think I was just thinking about,
you know, being on TikTok and the fact that gossip
has has again it's like just it's it's at another
level at this point. Yes, we have always you know,
everybody's always gossiped amongst themselves, right like in their worlds.
And then there's like the tabloty gossip like blah blah blah,
(10:51):
it might be pregnant or you know, splitting up or
having an affair. There's always been that. It's kind of
a dopamine hit.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Right, It's like a little exciting and you feel.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Like you're in on They feel like yes, but now
TikTok is. What I'm saying is is our little gossip
that we've always done can be projected across the world
and now there's thousands of people involved in your little gossip.
I'm saying. It's like gossip on speed.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
But again, this article was very interesting because I never gossip.
The word gossip had always had a negative connotation. If
anyone had ever called me a gossip, I would have
found it like not a great compliment.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, well, okay, hold on, because in this article they
go on to talk about and this is like the
scientific American you know, yes, journal, there is a difference
between gossiping well and gossiping not well. And those that
gossip well are seen as holders of information. And as
(11:54):
we know, in any system or you know, so a
social system or other those who have the tea they're
the popular ones.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
The ones you go to. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
In a social system, in a work system, you identify
who has the information and then who's willing to share it.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes, And I think it's the way I think it's
the way people share the information. Are you sharing it
in a reckless way or are you using it actually
in a positive way. So NBC broke this down because
I was thinking, well, what are examples? I couldn't think
of examples where like how is it beneficial to gossip?
And they gave a couple and they said, for example,
(12:39):
when you find out the person your friend has a
crush on has a bad reputation for cheating, you let
your friend know not to hurt your friend as a warning.
And I was like, oh, yeah, so that's yes, it's
considered a gossip, but like you're giving someone a heads
up or another example NBC gave was you find out
someone in your company is not a team player and
you let other coworkers know know that and so they
(13:02):
can try and avoid, you know, working with that colleague.
And but I think you, I think that people that
gossip well, quote unquote, it's about strategy too, because listen,
if you say something about someone in your company and
it gets back to them, that could be an issue.
So it's it's there's a lot involved in gossiping. Well, yeah,
(13:26):
do you think that you would consider yourself a good
gossip or a bad gossip.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I've had my moments with both, but I think that
makes us human. I would answer to you that I
feel again, well, I definitely think that I I think
the gossip is a negative word, but if I'm going
to open up my mind the idea that maybe it
is not, yes, I feel that I have evolved into
(13:56):
a good gossip. And the thing that I like to
gossip around are things that if it's in like pop culture,
that that person has already like thrown up what they
want people to talk about on their own, like through
a reality show or through you know, a decision to
(14:17):
date so and so and go out on such and
such night, or like it's good gossip, it's fun gossip.
It's like, oh, who's going out with who? And what
are they wearing? And is that cute? And I and
I'm just well, we already know me. I don't skew towards,
you know, the I don't skew towards the taking and
taking down of people. So I think I've become a
good gossip. I thought that this was interesting. There's that
(14:40):
in the Women's Women's Health magazine also did an article,
and I thought that it was very interesting that whether
you think you're a good gossip or not, it's actually
not the point because we are all gossips.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yes, they're like, hey, guess what, Yeah, you all are.
Everyone is.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
And they said, there are no people in this world
who do not There are no people in this world
who do not gossip. Some just gossip better than others.
And I tend to think of gossip as a social skill.
If you are a good gossiper, you're usually a pretty
popular person. You have a reputation for knowing what's going on,
and if you're a bad gossiper, it can be quite
the opposite. But there's no such thing as somebody who
(15:18):
doesn't gossip. Only those who gossip well and those who don't.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Oh, but here's the thing. Here's I do think loose
lips sink sank ships. Right, So it is hard because
not in order to be a good gossip you have to,
you know, figure out what information. And by the way,
one of the things that they say this NBC NBC
says is that a bad gossip is when you're gossiping
(15:44):
for personal gain.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I think that that's a terrible person who's gossiping for
their own benefit.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I'm sure I've gossip for my own benefit at some point.
What if you did that? I can't think of what
it is. Listen, if here's here's what I probably does.
And I'm talking like way back in high school. If
I found out that someone had a crush on a
on someone and I had a crush on that guy,
and I could slightly torpedo that, I just I can't, yes,
(16:14):
But and I'd be like, oh god, you know that she?
Uh would you make it up? No? No, no, not
make it up. I would just I'd be like, yeah,
I heard she's you know, Bama's man. Do with that
what you will? And then i'd you know, be waiting
in the wings. But yeah, yeah, I can't think of
a specific example. But do I put it past me
(16:35):
in my high school years to not have done this
and been ashad? Yeah, no, one. Here's the other element
that's tricky about gossipling. Okay, so maybe you're wanting to
(16:57):
warn somebody about a co worker and you're like, hey,
this person is really tricky and difficult and there's a
lot of strategy.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
There is a lot of strategy to this, and I honestly,
strategy stresses me out. You and I talk about this
a lot. You and I talk about this a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah. This morning when we.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Were talking, I was telling you about something and you
were like, I'm yes, you're playing this And I was
like wait, no, no, no, no, I yes, and you were like,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I just you know. I love you. So I'm always
gonna be like, just make sure that you're being careful.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And who appreciates you more than me?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
No? One?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I yes, I need that.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
See, I think that we I think we are. I'm
gonna tutor our own horns here. Me and you gossip
real good.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
But that's because we hold each other's secrets. Like like,
I know when I'm being told information, whether it's about
you or somebody else. I know when I need to
really safeguard it. To be honest, whatever you tell me
doesn't go any further anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I just flashed on act. Actually, my least favorite part
of gossip this is this is a rule that I
actually will never break.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Are you ready for what is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
No, if I have a friend, I'm going to put
friend in air quotes.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
If I have a friend who comes to me and
says so and so said such and such about you, M.
But you can't tell them that I told you M.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That is a curse.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I find that that friend is not a friend because
at a certain point you have to take accountability. And
if you want to tell me something that someone has
said about me that's horrible, then I do think you
need to let me take care of it.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, So let me ask you this question, because this
is very interesting. What would you if that person, Okay,
say I've heard something about somebody else, someone says something
about you. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's hard. It's a
hard situation for me because I mean, anyone that would
say anything bad about you, if I had directly heard it,
I would have to say, yeah, I would just I
wouldn't have any filter. Would you rather not know? Then?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
If I can't do something about it, I would rather
not know?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
What if it's backpocket information, though, that's important for you
to know. Like, let me give you a scenario. You're
working a job and the producer above you has said
something behind your back, like I don't you know, she
always does this thing on camera and it really bugs
me and h and then someone comes to you and says, hey,
(19:30):
this is what I've heard. Obviously, I don't want you
to go to the producer and be like that emphasis
told me, but like you can pocket the information. Is
that scenario okay with you? Or would you rather not know?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I'd rather not know, yeah, because I because I can't
do anything about it. And I mean, obviously, the rational
adult thing would be that that producer should come to
me and say, I really don't I've got hey, I
mean whatever and whatever nice and kind of way like, hey,
this thing is that. That's, by the way, that's called collaborating.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Okay, you have something that I don't have. You have
teens and tweens in your house, So let's talk about
learning to be a gossip, which is what they're doing
in high school and they're all doing and they're all
doing in middle school. Are there moments where like how
are you dealing with that? Like what are those conversations?
(20:20):
Like sometimes I'm going to be real real for a second.
I'm not actually real real all the time, but let's
just be real real.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
About something I think is probably not popular to be
real real about because it's hard to reckon with. We
as much as we get a hit of dopamine and
excitement about good news, like.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
We get so excited.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
We're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, this is
going to happen, and my friend got this or I
got this or whatever. I don't know what it is.
We need some scientists to come on and talk to
us about it. But I do believe that there's also
a weird I encourge that you get from hearing something bad.
(21:03):
Like yes, when you hear something like so and so
did such and such and you're like God, but it's
kind of thrilling. Yeah, Like it doesn't feel like, oh no,
I can't tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
It's only when that person is already sort of on
your naughty list.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I wish I could say that. Sometimes there's like really
nice people that I mean, again, this is probably more
high school.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
No, because if someone said something mean gossipy about you,
I'd have to cut a bitch. No no, no, So
you have to be on my spicy list for me
to get a little thrill.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, my possible takedown list. Yeah yeah, yeah, I get that.
Or you don't know them at all, like they're on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You don't even you've never you don't know them. I'm
guilty of this. It's what I just did. I was
getting thrills and sprills. Yes, I was loving it.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, I don't know them, and I'm like, oh, he
broke up with her like that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, Like what, so are you teaching your girls, like
just to be aware of the thrill of like group
bad gossiping, like group talking.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, yeah, well obviously that yes, because I do believe
very deeply that there are no secrets in life. I
do not believe secrets. I really don't.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I mean, well, what does that mean though, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Anything that you think, do say, pass on is discovered,
whether it's discovered tomorrow, in a week, a month, two years,
ten years on, like at the end of your life.
I have no idea, but most secrets get out, like
the secrets come out to the top. And I think
what I what I meant to introduce when I said
that you get a thrill from hearing bad gossip is
(22:52):
that you need to just kind of recognize that in
yourself as like, nothing's wrong with you. You just heard
something kind of thrilling. And what happens next is what's
most important. Because if you hear that information and then
you pick up your phone and blast it off to
four more people or I mean, let's be honest in
(23:14):
this dand age like.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
That was on TikTok. Yeah, you put it on TikTok, then.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think you have a real problem, like you've got
to you should there's a heavy load to that kind
of thing, like a like you should have a conscious
about that. And also like you're not fact checking, like
like why are we passing off bad information right? Or
information that could hurt someone or be negative. So I
think that there's bad gossip and then there's fun and
(23:42):
exciting and connective and bonding gossip. And that's what I
think that I was interested in when I, you know,
was going down the rabbit hole of reading this BBC
article and the Scientific American article and it was just
you know, I was like, I get it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, there's one There's one thing that really also interested
me in that BBC article, and that was because I
hadn't thought about this. It says the Me Too movement
has changed perceptions of gossip, as has the rise of
speak up cultures and the creation of safe environments where
truth can be told. Yeah. So I found that very
(24:18):
fascinating because I do think that what could have been
perceived as gossip before.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Is now.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Sharing of the truth, right, Yes, And I've seen in
many ways in my own life since me too personally
things change where people speak up about stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
And it would have been considered gossip before to be like,
you know what, this does happened and I or I
saw this or you know so that that was interesting
because I never thought about that.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah. I think when you're younger, you really need to
think about how you talk about people. And for some
reason it's really hard, but I really do. I mean,
you were asking about the teenagers and the tweens. I
just I think it's so it's so hurtful and so
(25:16):
damaging when you know a story is put out there
about you and and then it catches fire.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And have you had a situation where one of the
kiddo's or have you seen a situation like this has
happened where somebody has a kiddo has been talked about
and then the parents feel like they have to intervene
with the other parents, like what are you doing? Are
you calling the other parents at some point and being
like dude, lock it down. I like that's what I
want to do. Look it down.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I don't know what a version of Capshaw, I'm in
right now. Like if I'm like two point zero, three
point zero, I'm not sure, but one point zero. At
the beginning of my child my having children journey, I
was absolutely like if I heard the rumors, rumors, yeah,
I was. I mean, I had like a batphone. It
(26:06):
went straight to the source. I'd call, principles, I'd call.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
And I love this. Okay, So I want to hear.
I want to hear the outcome of that. Was it beneficial?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Was a journey? I mean I think I think it was.
It served a purpose. I mean I think there were
things that I learned about doing that that were that
that affirmed that what I was doing was the right thing.
And then there were things that were a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Like unhinged, a little bit scary. If I called you,
because I know there's a lot of people listening that
have teens and have tweens, and this is this is hard,
right If I call you and I say, I've just
heard this rumor about my kid. These these girls are gossiping,
these boys are gossiping. What is your what would your
(26:56):
advice you you've gone through this, You're like the oracle
to me.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Not quite, But I mean I do. As hard as
it is to see your kid unhappy, or if your
kid's even the one that's like, you know, on the
chopping block, you gotta let them be unhappy.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Are you doing a let them for the gossiping? Maybe
it's mL Robbins like let them let them talk, And well,
you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Funny I heard.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I heard.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I don't know whose sage wisdom this is, but I
heard it on a podcast that actually Betsy Brown Brawn
was talking on and she said something, I mean, I
can skew you. I'm far less anxious than I used
to be, but I certainly can imagine all the things
that could go wrong in any situation. So I do
have to steel myself against the worry. And she said
(27:47):
something that made a lot of sense to me, and
it was that you need to prepare your child for
the path, right, You need to prepare your child for
the path in front of them, the way that they're
going to grow and move along in this world. You
can't prepare the path for the child. You can't be
(28:08):
like ahead of them, like clearing the bushes and like
talking to the parents.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, you know me, I'm a clearer.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, I just told you so was I. I can do that,
and then I can also do this incredibly self unaware
thing where I'm like, oh no, no, no, I'm not
preparing the path and literally wearing like a backpack blower.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Carrying a rake. You're like that patch, I just cleared
it a little.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh no no, no.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
No no no.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I was just doing my weekly maintenance.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It wasn't that kid. I wasn't doing it for them.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I was just doing it because I mean I just
saw it and you needed to fix it.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It's so hard, though, it's so so, so so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I think that I'm going to try my hand. I mean,
it's gonna happen at some point and I'm gonna hate it,
but I'm gonna try my hand on the direct calling
the bat phone to the parents.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I don't recommend.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
It, really, right, is it? Because the parents are so
defensive when you do something like that, and they're like,
not my not my Cindy.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yes, And ultimately the reason why I think you don't
is because you have no idea. I mean, they could
be collaborative, and they could, but they also couldn't. And
I think, ultimately, again, if you're going back to that
child centered idea and navigation. They should be the one
(29:36):
figure I get out. So if they're at school and
so and so, it's time. I mean again, all of
this is to say to a point, right, like, if
there's an extreme situation where people are, you know, doing
something very harmful or anyone's mental health is at risk,
then this is a different situation totally.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Can I ask you before we move on a little
bit with this, but can I ask you did you
find when in your experience were parents receptive or were
they not?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I think the whole list, like the eight out of
ten times was that they were super responsive. And we're
like uh huh uh oh yes, oh no, oh yeah.
And then somehow within two to three days, had you know,
gone and done their due diligence and come back and
been like, oh my gosh. I mean, well, you know,
(30:40):
Johnny just said that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And it's always that.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
It's always like and then they went to their kid
and it just didn't happen, And it's like, what are
you gonna do? Is anyone you want to send your
kid to school with a GoPro?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Sure they're gonna hate to see me coming.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, They're like they've got the wire. They're wearing the wire,
like I'm taking my and my kid to school with
the wire. God, I don't think I'm doing that.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I might want to, but I'm not going to.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I don't know. This is so hard, Johnny, because we
all know Johnny did it. We know Johnny did it.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Of course Johnny did it.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Okay, I think we can end this conversation on three
ways that we're quoted by psychologists. That are ways when
you can get better at gossiping. So I think twice
before you do it. What's your intention? Right? Like, it's
if your personal gain? Is it Camilla trona torpedo, USh
(31:39):
another girl to get the guy?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I can't know that about you. Now, do you think.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Twice about the gossip? You don't gossip for personal gains?
The other one, and then the third is you don't
distort the information, tell it like it is. You don't
put your own little spinneroo on it.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Right. Well, that's like the game of telephone, you know,
And it.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Is hard because sometimes you know, you can add a
little flare.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I know, because we're storytellers. What can we say for storytellers?
Sometimes we need to add a little embellishment. Sometimes the
story is kind of boring, you need to give it.
We're just helping the stories.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Also, you I I think I have to add flair
because you flat out tell me that my story is boring.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
God, sometimes they are, but most of the time they aren't.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Hit us in the comments for this, because I want
to know if you guys have ever thought of gossiping
as good. I think this is a conversation that could
be had.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeh Is that a bonding experience? Are you able to
do it with integrity? And uh?
Speaker 1 (32:43):
And has this podcast in any way open your eyes
the idea of it being able to be good?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Would you like to be a bigger and better gossip.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Because of this episode? Yeah? I hope no one's thinking, like,
you know what, I'd like to be a little worse.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I'm taking people out on tomorrow, left and right.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Have you been watching The White Lotus? Yes? I, oh,
you know what. That is a great example Jessica of gossip. Yeah. Yeah,
and it hears me hives because I've also heard I
don't know where I heard this, but I heard friend
groups of three never really work. You should never do it.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Get rid of one of you if that's where you're at. Sorry,
you gotta boat one of them off the island. Yeah,
you know what, here's the thing that Friendship trio is,
you know if it reminded me of that saying like,
if you're not at the table, then you're on the menu.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Oh well, I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I know I'm never going to leave the table again.
And I have to wear diapers to dinner.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
No, we're never leaving the table. And we're also just
not gone.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
We can't get a third. I also, yeah, I mean
I don't need a third. No, gosh, no, you know,
I get jealous anyways on one a third.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
We don't need a third. We don't need a third.
But that's a great example of gossiping. But when I
watched that show, their particular dynamic because the Trump scene
and everything just the whole oh god, stressful.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
The side looks, Oh my gosh, and where I don't
know where Parker Posey's going, but I just feel like
she's gonna get swallowed by the ocean suit.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, but by the way, great example of bad gossip.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, I think we got there through Schwarzenegger. He's really
good at playing this part.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I definitely want to punch him.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I want to. He is the douchiest of douches, and
he's I think, I mean, I'm I'm gonna go on
aland here. I don't know him. This is not a
personal assessment. I think he knows it. I think he's
really playing it. I don't think that's him.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
He's having so much fun.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think he's I mean, those sunglasses, the whole thing
so weird to his sister, which is so hot. I
know it's so weird, but also what's the younger brother
doing and is he like I feel like he's waiting.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
To kiss her too. It's all gross. But wait, I
have to just sidebar this really quick. When I was
in high school, the boys used to dress kind of
like that the s and it's so gross that now
it gives me he begbi's to see the collar if
you look like you're about to play golf but you
(35:22):
are not playing golf, it's just really American psycho. Yeah,
it's gross.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Well, the sunglasses, the shirt, the whole thing. There's also
I always forget that a white lotus. I need to
just be ready to see someone's butt.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Did we see a butt? We did see a butt.
Whose butt I see?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We saw a Schwartzenegger butt, we saw Shortinger butt. I
saw some boobs in my last one.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Whose boobs did you see? We saw? Oh yeah, the dad.
That was a great moment when the dad, the robe
opens up and the the under kid riage was all revealed. No,
I'm finding why Lotus more stressful this season, Like like,
I'm really stressed out by the undercarriage, by all of it,
(36:12):
by the polo shirt, but also I'm stressed.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Out because I know that something terrible is gonna happen
soon and I don't know when or where or who.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Okay, so before we leave this podcast, we've done a
little sidebar. Who who do you think is gonna die
on the White Lotus.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I think it's gonna be one of the ladies.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I think it's gonna be Parkert Possi.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Well, she's already been foreshadowing again being swallowed by the ocean.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I think it might be a Leslie Bibb or or
a Carrie Coons, maybe I'm Michelle Monny and I don't know,
maybe one of them.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I think that I think that the the mom parkeet
Posi is not going to have been shot, even though
we see her floating and there's gunshots. I think that
she's gonna have odd on lauras of Han because she
loves those. She just love them, all right, I digress.
Call it her comments who do you think is going
(37:07):
to die? In the White Lotus? But also gossiping? Have
you ever thought of gossip as a good thing?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
And should we gossip more? Here on?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Call it what it is. I think we might listen
if you want us to gossip, Jessica and I can, well,
yeah we can't.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And like I said, we think we can good gossip.
But you know it's gonna pack a bunch, all right.
Call it the end of the episode.
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew,
and welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Call It What It Is?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Can I talk about my few minutes running up to
me hopping on here?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah. So it's the afternoon in Los Angeles and my son,
he's in preschool, comes home from school and he walks
through the door and I'm like, II, you know, like
snuggle in your hair, like nuzzle him, lots of kisses
all over the head. Let's do you know, little eskimo
eyelash kisses, you know, just so close and delicious together.
(00:54):
And my phone was like pooh, and I'm like, okay,
So I look at this and I'm like, oh, it's
an email for in school and it's like, Hi, your
kid might have lice. I've definitely like rubbed my entire
set of extensions all over them.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
The silkwood shower. I'm surprised you didn't go you know,
I'm surprised you didn't cancel and go straight for the
silkwood shower.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, he's in the shower as we speak, Matt was
I was like Matt, But I spent my time like,
thank god, the Luddington jeans give you about one strand
of hair, right, so it's like that checking don's gonna
need extension. So I it took me, like, you know,
a minute to check because it was like just that
strand and it looked fine and we had moved on
(01:40):
with our lives.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
One of the funniest memes you ever are gifts whatever
they are called. Yeah, the funniest ones you've ever sent me.
When we were going back and forth about how we
feel with it without extension, was you saying that after
getting them out? Well, the meme you sent me was
a Gollum.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is in fact, Gollum has more hair.
And then I thought it was so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I actually went searching for more Glumn memes, gifts, whatever.
And sometimes he has a comb over.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Sometimes that's the one I'm thinking about. I'm thinking of
the comb over.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, so you're thinking the Luddington hair. The Luddington hair
is gallimal.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
But also the email said, you know, like of course
there they have to be diplomatic and they're like, you know,
I can't tell Yeah, yeah, they're not gonna tell me
who So Matt and I are doing this like casual
interrogation of a four year old and we're like, was
anyone like it a lot about sick today, like were
they at school? And then not at school? But it's like,
you know, Lucas is so annoying and he'll be like
(02:42):
a t rex came today. So it's like the lies
and he was like that, you know, he's mentioning one
kid that's not in school, and we're like, was he
in school? A little bit though? He's like no, no,
and it's like we're it's a full blown interrogation. We
got no information. He didn't give us anything, but he's
in the shower right now.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah. I mean I wish I could tell you that
showers fixed lie.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
They don't you need the special shampoo.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I remember the smell of the shampoo when I was
a kid. Do you were a lie shampoo?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It was like, I mean, not anymore. But I was
a real blonde at one point, and lice on real
blondes is harder.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Oh really, because I was thinking that we were lucky,
you know what I did, because they're a little bit translucent.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah you can't see them. Yeah, I remember I love you, mom.
I remember being left to my own devices with that ship,
like I remember that when I had it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, here's the comb, here's the shampoo. How about it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, I mean it's all but like raid right, like
it's it's raid in a bottle space.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Basically it is, we do have raid. We do have raids. Idea,
that's not what you should do.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I joke.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
This is a joke, disclaimer and not to do this.
Here's what I can.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Tell you is if well, I will say this is
actually practical advice from mother of four, if in fact
there is a chance that he could have it. The
upholstery is really challenging to get lice out of, so
you know, maybe just put him in a plastic bag
and carry him around the house and just don't let
(04:16):
him touch anything. No couches for him. Yeah yeah, yeah,
maybe maybe he sleeps outside tonight.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I like the dom bed.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
The dom bed, yeah, if you're willing to wash it,
but yeah, you could just throw it, but you can
can't take off the cover and wash it in them
in them in the you know washing machine. Yeah, it's
really rough.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well I'm crossing my fingers that that is that We're fine.
The one strand so far looks clean to me, and
it's being shampooed right now.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, right, And a very high temperature of water doesn't matter,
by the way.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No it doesn't. They love that temperature.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
They're doing the backstroke and that is taken.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
It's like a hold tub. Okay, how is your afternoon?
Tell me before we dive in.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Uh, well, you know we talked about this before. Spring
is springing here, and so I have a spring in
my step and I am if you are seeing me
on camera, I'm in a cardigan and hold on tanked up.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Wow. I know it's your favorite season.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It miracle season.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It is, Yes, it is, yes it is. But is
it still cold there or no?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Now it's like gonna if you would come here and
be like it's racing. Yeah, yeah, but it's not that cold.
And spring is springing and I feel it coming around
the corner. And not to get too you know, mystical
about things, but I do really think that spring is
a chance and an opportunity for new beginnings. Yeah, not
(05:51):
just in the physical world, but in your own ideas
about things. I have felt really grateful because there's been
a lot of things that's like sort of swirling around
me that have to do with some opportunities.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well, I know, I know, we can't say more. We
can't say more. Yeah, but that's good. I agree. I
think I think Spring has that like a little magic
in the air. This is how I feel about Fall too,
obviously Christmas, but like I do, I feel like there's
a little like who it's yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Also, before I got on, because this leads into our episode,
I was on the old TikTok, right because I've I've
I'm less on Instagram and I'm more on TikTok and
you know me, this is a skinny ball of the alien.
I get sucked down these little holes, right, And I
realized how gossipy TikTok is, right, Yeah, and I am
(06:52):
getting sucked into all this gossip that has nothing to
do with me. I'm like people, you know, like people
are splitting that I don't even you know in I
have no idea, you don't even know our aunts on TikTok.
Now I'm involved. Yeah, And I thought about.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It and they wanted they were actually quite frankly, they
would like for you to be involved and maybe have
a voice in it.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yes, And I thought about how well what do you
want to introduce our subject, because then I'm going to
lead into what I thought. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I mean today we're talking about I saw a headline
last week, which we'll talk about, but we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Gossip, yes, and I felt like, oh, we are in
the new era, especially with TikTok, of global gossip on
a scale that we've never seen before. Obviously there's been tabloids, yes,
and I feel like the tabloidy part of stuff was
always like you know, Michael Jackson, whoever it was, was like,
(07:48):
you know, but now I really feel yourself there. Well yeah,
because I'm thinking of those like National Inquirers too, that
were like, you know, this is aligning yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, I mean National acquire had quite a few alien articles.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So maybe I don't know about that because it's where.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It's where your affections, where it started began.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
But what I what I think social media does is
now on a very it doesn't you don't have to
be this crazy celebrity like Elvis Presley. Now it's like
you can get on social media on TikTok and you
can gossip about what just went down at the wedding
you went to. And I'm like, oh, oh no, it's
like scaled up in our world.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, people you don't even know, but it's all story, right,
Like that's the thing that I thought was interesting. So
so the origin story of us having this conversation was
that a headline grabbed mine eye, which was the surprising
benefits of gossip. Because I actually always I have relegated
(08:57):
gossip to a very negative category. I've always been like,
gossip is terrible, you should not gossip, and you know
when you gossip, bad things happen and whatever. So I
was sort of just I was taken by this headline
and I really wanted to understand why or how there
were surprising benefits to gossip, and I think it's very interesting.
(09:20):
So I shared it with you, and then we were
talking about our own relationships to gossip. And and by
the way, I want to be very very clear as
we talk about the benefits of gossip, which really bottom
line have to do with going back to kind of
a like our earlier origins and like tribal behavior where
we were got to live in clans and groups that
(09:42):
were tight knit and small, like it was our way
of socializing and bonding. And you know, we like kibbitzing
and talking about our days and having that bring us
closer together. There's also another version of gossip being that's
you know, can can border of dis actually be bullying, right, like,
oh yeah, gossip about someone that's not true. But I
(10:03):
think that I think that the surprising benefits of gossip
would be far more in the category of true information,
passing it on and then creating a relationship around new news.
But it's not being given to you from a news
outlet that might have it might or might not have
an agenda, but really from a person. So you're saying
(10:27):
yours was from TikTok, So I guess that's kind of
different because that is.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Well, I'm just I think I was just thinking about,
you know, being on TikTok and the fact that gossip
has has again it's like just it's it's at another
level at this point. Yes, we have always you know,
everybody's always gossiped amongst themselves, right like in their worlds.
And then there's like the tabloty gossip like blah blah blah,
(10:51):
it might be pregnant or you know, splitting up or
having an affair. There's always been that. It's kind of
a dopamine hit.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Right, It's like a little exciting and you feel.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Like you're in on They feel like yes, but now
TikTok is. What I'm saying is is our little gossip
that we've always done can be projected across the world
and now there's thousands of people involved in your little gossip.
I'm saying. It's like gossip on speed.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
But again, this article was very interesting because I never gossip.
The word gossip had always had a negative connotation. If
anyone had ever called me a gossip, I would have
found it like not a great compliment.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, well, okay, hold on, because in this article they
go on to talk about and this is like the
scientific American you know, yes, journal, there is a difference
between gossiping well and gossiping not well. And those that
gossip well are seen as holders of information. And as
(11:54):
we know, in any system or you know, so a
social system or other those who have the tea they're
the popular ones.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
The ones you go to. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
In a social system, in a work system, you identify
who has the information and then who's willing to share it.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yes, And I think it's the way I think it's
the way people share the information. Are you sharing it
in a reckless way or are you using it actually
in a positive way. So NBC broke this down because
I was thinking, well, what are examples? I couldn't think
of examples where like how is it beneficial to gossip?
And they gave a couple and they said, for example,
(12:39):
when you find out the person your friend has a
crush on has a bad reputation for cheating, you let
your friend know not to hurt your friend as a warning.
And I was like, oh, yeah, so that's yes, it's
considered a gossip, but like you're giving someone a heads
up or another example NBC gave was you find out
someone in your company is not a team player and
you let other coworkers know know that and so they
(13:02):
can try and avoid, you know, working with that colleague.
And but I think you, I think that people that
gossip well, quote unquote, it's about strategy too, because listen,
if you say something about someone in your company and
it gets back to them, that could be an issue.
So it's it's there's a lot involved in gossiping. Well, yeah,
(13:26):
do you think that you would consider yourself a good
gossip or a bad gossip.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I've had my moments with both, but I think that
makes us human. I would answer to you that I
feel again, well, I definitely think that I I think
the gossip is a negative word, but if I'm going
to open up my mind the idea that maybe it
is not, yes, I feel that I have evolved into
(13:56):
a good gossip. And the thing that I like to
gossip around are things that if it's in like pop culture,
that that person has already like thrown up what they
want people to talk about on their own, like through
a reality show or through you know, a decision to
(14:17):
date so and so and go out on such and
such night, or like it's good gossip, it's fun gossip.
It's like, oh, who's going out with who? And what
are they wearing? And is that cute? And I and
I'm just well, we already know me. I don't skew towards,
you know, the I don't skew towards the taking and
taking down of people. So I think I've become a
good gossip. I thought that this was interesting. There's that
(14:40):
in the Women's Women's Health magazine also did an article,
and I thought that it was very interesting that whether
you think you're a good gossip or not, it's actually
not the point because we are all gossips.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yes, they're like, hey, guess what, Yeah, you all are.
Everyone is.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
And they said, there are no people in this world
who do not There are no people in this world
who do not gossip. Some just gossip better than others.
And I tend to think of gossip as a social skill.
If you are a good gossiper, you're usually a pretty
popular person. You have a reputation for knowing what's going on,
and if you're a bad gossiper, it can be quite
the opposite. But there's no such thing as somebody who
(15:18):
doesn't gossip. Only those who gossip well and those who don't.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Oh, but here's the thing. Here's I do think loose
lips sink sank ships. Right, So it is hard because
not in order to be a good gossip you have to,
you know, figure out what information. And by the way,
one of the things that they say this NBC NBC
says is that a bad gossip is when you're gossiping
(15:44):
for personal gain.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I think that that's a terrible person who's gossiping for
their own benefit.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I'm sure I've gossip for my own benefit at some point.
What if you did that? I can't think of what
it is. Listen, if here's here's what I probably does.
And I'm talking like way back in high school. If
I found out that someone had a crush on a
on someone and I had a crush on that guy,
and I could slightly torpedo that, I just I can't, yes,
(16:14):
But and I'd be like, oh god, you know that she?
Uh would you make it up? No? No, no, not
make it up. I would just I'd be like, yeah,
I heard she's you know, Bama's man. Do with that
what you will? And then i'd you know, be waiting
in the wings. But yeah, yeah, I can't think of
a specific example. But do I put it past me
(16:35):
in my high school years to not have done this
and been ashad? Yeah, no, one. Here's the other element
that's tricky about gossipling. Okay, so maybe you're wanting to
(16:57):
warn somebody about a co worker and you're like, hey,
this person is really tricky and difficult and there's a
lot of strategy.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
There is a lot of strategy to this, and I honestly,
strategy stresses me out. You and I talk about this
a lot. You and I talk about this a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah. This morning when we.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Were talking, I was telling you about something and you
were like, I'm yes, you're playing this And I was
like wait, no, no, no, no, I yes, and you were like,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I just you know. I love you. So I'm always
gonna be like, just make sure that you're being careful.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And who appreciates you more than me?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
No? One?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I yes, I need that.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
See, I think that we I think we are. I'm
gonna tutor our own horns here. Me and you gossip
real good.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
But that's because we hold each other's secrets. Like like,
I know when I'm being told information, whether it's about
you or somebody else. I know when I need to
really safeguard it. To be honest, whatever you tell me
doesn't go any further anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
I just flashed on act. Actually, my least favorite part
of gossip this is this is a rule that I
actually will never break.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Are you ready for what is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:06):
No, if I have a friend, I'm going to put
friend in air quotes.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
If I have a friend who comes to me and
says so and so said such and such about you, M.
But you can't tell them that I told you M.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That is a curse.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I find that that friend is not a friend because
at a certain point you have to take accountability. And
if you want to tell me something that someone has
said about me that's horrible, then I do think you
need to let me take care of it.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Okay, So let me ask you this question, because this
is very interesting. What would you if that person, Okay,
say I've heard something about somebody else, someone says something
about you. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's hard. It's a
hard situation for me because I mean, anyone that would
say anything bad about you, if I had directly heard it,
I would have to say, yeah, I would just I
wouldn't have any filter. Would you rather not know? Then?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
If I can't do something about it, I would rather
not know?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
What if it's backpocket information, though, that's important for you
to know. Like, let me give you a scenario. You're
working a job and the producer above you has said
something behind your back, like I don't you know, she
always does this thing on camera and it really bugs
me and h and then someone comes to you and says, hey,
(19:30):
this is what I've heard. Obviously, I don't want you
to go to the producer and be like that emphasis
told me, but like you can pocket the information. Is
that scenario okay with you? Or would you rather not know?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I'd rather not know, yeah, because I because I can't
do anything about it. And I mean, obviously, the rational
adult thing would be that that producer should come to
me and say, I really don't I've got hey, I
mean whatever and whatever nice and kind of way like, hey,
this thing is that. That's, by the way, that's called collaborating.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Okay, you have something that I don't have. You have
teens and tweens in your house, So let's talk about
learning to be a gossip, which is what they're doing
in high school and they're all doing and they're all
doing in middle school. Are there moments where like how
are you dealing with that? Like what are those conversations?
(20:20):
Like sometimes I'm going to be real real for a second.
I'm not actually real real all the time, but let's
just be real real.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
About something I think is probably not popular to be
real real about because it's hard to reckon with. We
as much as we get a hit of dopamine and
excitement about good news, like.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
We get so excited.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
We're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, this is
going to happen, and my friend got this or I
got this or whatever. I don't know what it is.
We need some scientists to come on and talk to
us about it. But I do believe that there's also
a weird I encourge that you get from hearing something bad.
(21:03):
Like yes, when you hear something like so and so
did such and such and you're like God, but it's
kind of thrilling. Yeah, Like it doesn't feel like, oh no,
I can't tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
It's only when that person is already sort of on
your naughty list.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I wish I could say that. Sometimes there's like really
nice people that I mean, again, this is probably more
high school.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
No, because if someone said something mean gossipy about you,
I'd have to cut a bitch. No no, no, So
you have to be on my spicy list for me
to get a little thrill.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, my possible takedown list. Yeah yeah, yeah, I get that.
Or you don't know them at all, like they're on TikTok.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You don't even you've never you don't know them. I'm
guilty of this. It's what I just did. I was
getting thrills and sprills. Yes, I was loving it.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, I don't know them, and I'm like, oh, he
broke up with her like that?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, Like what, so are you teaching your girls, like
just to be aware of the thrill of like group
bad gossiping, like group talking.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, yeah, well obviously that yes, because I do believe
very deeply that there are no secrets in life. I
do not believe secrets. I really don't.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I mean, well, what does that mean though, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Anything that you think, do say, pass on is discovered,
whether it's discovered tomorrow, in a week, a month, two years,
ten years on, like at the end of your life.
I have no idea, but most secrets get out, like
the secrets come out to the top. And I think
what I what I meant to introduce when I said
that you get a thrill from hearing bad gossip is
(22:52):
that you need to just kind of recognize that in
yourself as like, nothing's wrong with you. You just heard
something kind of thrilling. And what happens next is what's
most important. Because if you hear that information and then
you pick up your phone and blast it off to
four more people or I mean, let's be honest in
(23:14):
this dand age like.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
That was on TikTok. Yeah, you put it on TikTok, then.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think you have a real problem, like you've got
to you should there's a heavy load to that kind
of thing, like a like you should have a conscious
about that. And also like you're not fact checking, like
like why are we passing off bad information right? Or
information that could hurt someone or be negative. So I
think that there's bad gossip and then there's fun and
(23:42):
exciting and connective and bonding gossip. And that's what I
think that I was interested in when I, you know,
was going down the rabbit hole of reading this BBC
article and the Scientific American article and it was just
you know, I was like, I get it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, there's one There's one thing that really also interested
me in that BBC article, and that was because I
hadn't thought about this. It says the Me Too movement
has changed perceptions of gossip, as has the rise of
speak up cultures and the creation of safe environments where
truth can be told. Yeah. So I found that very
(24:18):
fascinating because I do think that what could have been
perceived as gossip before.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Is now.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Sharing of the truth, right, Yes, And I've seen in
many ways in my own life since me too personally
things change where people speak up about stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
And it would have been considered gossip before to be like,
you know what, this does happened and I or I
saw this or you know so that that was interesting
because I never thought about that.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah. I think when you're younger, you really need to
think about how you talk about people. And for some
reason it's really hard, but I really do. I mean,
you were asking about the teenagers and the tweens. I
just I think it's so it's so hurtful and so
(25:16):
damaging when you know a story is put out there
about you and and then it catches fire.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And have you had a situation where one of the
kiddo's or have you seen a situation like this has
happened where somebody has a kiddo has been talked about
and then the parents feel like they have to intervene
with the other parents, like what are you doing? Are
you calling the other parents at some point and being
like dude, lock it down. I like that's what I
want to do. Look it down.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I don't know what a version of Capshaw, I'm in
right now. Like if I'm like two point zero, three
point zero, I'm not sure, but one point zero. At
the beginning of my child my having children journey, I
was absolutely like if I heard the rumors, rumors, yeah,
I was. I mean, I had like a batphone. It
(26:06):
went straight to the source. I'd call, principles, I'd call.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
And I love this. Okay, So I want to hear.
I want to hear the outcome of that. Was it beneficial?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Was a journey? I mean I think I think it was.
It served a purpose. I mean I think there were
things that I learned about doing that that were that
that affirmed that what I was doing was the right thing.
And then there were things that were a little bit.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Like unhinged, a little bit scary. If I called you,
because I know there's a lot of people listening that
have teens and have tweens, and this is this is hard,
right If I call you and I say, I've just
heard this rumor about my kid. These these girls are gossiping,
these boys are gossiping. What is your what would your
(26:56):
advice you you've gone through this, You're like the oracle
to me.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Not quite, But I mean I do. As hard as
it is to see your kid unhappy, or if your
kid's even the one that's like, you know, on the
chopping block, you gotta let them be unhappy.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Are you doing a let them for the gossiping? Maybe
it's mL Robbins like let them let them talk, And well,
you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Funny I heard.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I heard.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I don't know whose sage wisdom this is, but I
heard it on a podcast that actually Betsy Brown Brawn
was talking on and she said something, I mean, I
can skew you. I'm far less anxious than I used
to be, but I certainly can imagine all the things
that could go wrong in any situation. So I do
have to steel myself against the worry. And she said
(27:47):
something that made a lot of sense to me, and
it was that you need to prepare your child for
the path, right, You need to prepare your child for
the path in front of them, the way that they're
going to grow and move along in this world. You
can't prepare the path for the child. You can't be
(28:08):
like ahead of them, like clearing the bushes and like
talking to the parents.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, you know me, I'm a clearer.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, I just told you so was I. I can do that,
and then I can also do this incredibly self unaware
thing where I'm like, oh no, no, no, I'm not
preparing the path and literally wearing like a backpack blower.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Carrying a rake. You're like that patch, I just cleared
it a little.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh no no, no.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
No no no.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I was just doing my weekly maintenance.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It wasn't that kid. I wasn't doing it for them.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I was just doing it because I mean I just
saw it and you needed to fix it.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It's so hard, though, it's so so, so so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I think that I'm going to try my hand. I mean,
it's gonna happen at some point and I'm gonna hate it,
but I'm gonna try my hand on the direct calling
the bat phone to the parents.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I don't recommend.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
It, really, right, is it? Because the parents are so
defensive when you do something like that, and they're like,
not my not my Cindy.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yes, And ultimately the reason why I think you don't
is because you have no idea. I mean, they could
be collaborative, and they could, but they also couldn't. And
I think, ultimately, again, if you're going back to that
child centered idea and navigation. They should be the one
(29:36):
figure I get out. So if they're at school and
so and so, it's time. I mean again, all of
this is to say to a point, right, like, if
there's an extreme situation where people are, you know, doing
something very harmful or anyone's mental health is at risk,
then this is a different situation totally.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Can I ask you before we move on a little
bit with this, but can I ask you did you
find when in your experience were parents receptive or were
they not?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I think the whole list, like the eight out of
ten times was that they were super responsive. And we're
like uh huh uh oh yes, oh no, oh yeah.
And then somehow within two to three days, had you know,
gone and done their due diligence and come back and
been like, oh my gosh. I mean, well, you know,
(30:40):
Johnny just said that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
And it's always that.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
It's always like and then they went to their kid
and it just didn't happen, And it's like, what are
you gonna do? Is anyone you want to send your
kid to school with a GoPro?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Sure they're gonna hate to see me coming.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, They're like they've got the wire. They're wearing the wire,
like I'm taking my and my kid to school with
the wire. God, I don't think I'm doing that.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I might want to, but I'm not going to.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I don't know. This is so hard, Johnny, because we
all know Johnny did it. We know Johnny did it.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Of course Johnny did it.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Okay, I think we can end this conversation on three
ways that we're quoted by psychologists. That are ways when
you can get better at gossiping. So I think twice
before you do it. What's your intention? Right? Like, it's
if your personal gain? Is it Camilla trona torpedo, USh
(31:39):
another girl to get the guy?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I can't know that about you. Now, do you think.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Twice about the gossip? You don't gossip for personal gains?
The other one, and then the third is you don't
distort the information, tell it like it is. You don't
put your own little spinneroo on it.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Right. Well, that's like the game of telephone, you know,
And it.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Is hard because sometimes you know, you can add a
little flare.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I know, because we're storytellers. What can we say for storytellers?
Sometimes we need to add a little embellishment. Sometimes the
story is kind of boring, you need to give it.
We're just helping the stories.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Also, you I I think I have to add flair
because you flat out tell me that my story is boring.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
God, sometimes they are, but most of the time they aren't.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Hit us in the comments for this, because I want
to know if you guys have ever thought of gossiping
as good. I think this is a conversation that could
be had.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeh Is that a bonding experience? Are you able to
do it with integrity? And uh?
Speaker 1 (32:43):
And has this podcast in any way open your eyes
the idea of it being able to be good?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Would you like to be a bigger and better gossip.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Because of this episode? Yeah? I hope no one's thinking, like,
you know what, I'd like to be a little worse.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I'm taking people out on tomorrow, left and right.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Have you been watching The White Lotus? Yes? I, oh,
you know what. That is a great example Jessica of gossip. Yeah. Yeah,
and it hears me hives because I've also heard I
don't know where I heard this, but I heard friend
groups of three never really work. You should never do it.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Get rid of one of you if that's where you're at. Sorry,
you gotta boat one of them off the island. Yeah,
you know what, here's the thing that Friendship trio is,
you know if it reminded me of that saying like,
if you're not at the table, then you're on the menu.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Oh well, I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
I know I'm never going to leave the table again.
And I have to wear diapers to dinner.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
No, we're never leaving the table. And we're also just
not gone.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
We can't get a third. I also, yeah, I mean
I don't need a third. No, gosh, no, you know,
I get jealous anyways on one a third.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
We don't need a third. We don't need a third.
But that's a great example of gossiping. But when I
watched that show, their particular dynamic because the Trump scene
and everything just the whole oh god, stressful.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
The side looks, Oh my gosh, and where I don't
know where Parker Posey's going, but I just feel like
she's gonna get swallowed by the ocean suit.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, but by the way, great example of bad gossip.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, I think we got there through Schwarzenegger. He's really
good at playing this part.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I definitely want to punch him.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I want to. He is the douchiest of douches, and
he's I think, I mean, I'm I'm gonna go on
aland here. I don't know him. This is not a
personal assessment. I think he knows it. I think he's
really playing it. I don't think that's him.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
He's having so much fun.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I think he's I mean, those sunglasses, the whole thing
so weird to his sister, which is so hot. I
know it's so weird, but also what's the younger brother
doing and is he like I feel like he's waiting.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
To kiss her too. It's all gross. But wait, I
have to just sidebar this really quick. When I was
in high school, the boys used to dress kind of
like that the s and it's so gross that now
it gives me he begbi's to see the collar if
you look like you're about to play golf but you
(35:22):
are not playing golf, it's just really American psycho. Yeah,
it's gross.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Well, the sunglasses, the shirt, the whole thing. There's also
I always forget that a white lotus. I need to
just be ready to see someone's butt.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Did we see a butt? We did see a butt.
Whose butt I see?
Speaker 2 (35:44):
We saw a Schwartzenegger butt, we saw Shortinger butt. I
saw some boobs in my last one.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Whose boobs did you see? We saw? Oh yeah, the dad.
That was a great moment when the dad, the robe
opens up and the the under kid riage was all revealed. No,
I'm finding why Lotus more stressful this season, Like like,
I'm really stressed out by the undercarriage, by all of it,
(36:12):
by the polo shirt, but also I'm stressed.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Out because I know that something terrible is gonna happen
soon and I don't know when or where or who.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Okay, so before we leave this podcast, we've done a
little sidebar. Who who do you think is gonna die
on the White Lotus.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I think it's gonna be one of the ladies.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I think it's gonna be Parkert Possi.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Well, she's already been foreshadowing again being swallowed by the ocean.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I think it might be a Leslie Bibb or or
a Carrie Coons, maybe I'm Michelle Monny and I don't know,
maybe one of them.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I think that I think that the the mom parkeet
Posi is not going to have been shot, even though
we see her floating and there's gunshots. I think that
she's gonna have odd on lauras of Han because she
loves those. She just love them, all right, I digress.
Call it her comments who do you think is going
(37:07):
to die? In the White Lotus? But also gossiping? Have
you ever thought of gossip as a good thing?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
And should we gossip more? Here on?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Call it what it is. I think we might listen
if you want us to gossip, Jessica and I can, well,
yeah we can't.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And like I said, we think we can good gossip.
But you know it's gonna pack a bunch, all right.
Call it the end of the episode.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
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