August 27, 2025 • 16 mins
Is four the magic number? Research shows raising four kids is easier on parents, but how does our own expert/mother-of-four feel about this?
Hear what Jessica calls the hardest part of parenting and why Camilla tapped out at two kids!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, call It crew, and welcome
to another episode of Short and Sweet.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh we're going to talk about kids and that's so sweet.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I sent this to you. You did, It's like, don't
answer me.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I want to know your answer on the podcast?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
What'd you send me?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well? I sent you an article and it talked about
how having four kids is apparently.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
The least stressful number of children.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
They say a survey conducted by Today of seven thousand
US mothers have found which ideal number of kids for
the least stressful life is four. And I thought, I
know someone that has four children and would probably like
to speak on this, And so here I am pulling
my hair out over too, and I was like, if
(01:18):
I just had two more.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
If you'd only had two more, you'd be the soops, chill,
so chill. Yeah, you could have it all.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Because let's definitely talk about how easy it is to
have four children, because that's just the truth.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, super easy. So let's make that seem like
it's not stressful. I'm gonna I'm gonna laugh this whole
short and sweet. You know I'm when I hand the
mic to you. Yeah, okay, let's do it as a
four kid expert.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
There's no such thing, okay. So I mean again, I
always have follow up questions. So it really just depends
on who you are. That's the number one thing to say.
But I was thinking about the different because obviously you
go from one to two to three to four, and
I was trying to think about what it was like
when there was.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
One and when there was two and three.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
All the difference is and I think, you know, going
in order, I think that one is definitely probably the
most challenging because it's all new. Yeah, and I definitely
remember having baby Luke on.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Day I don't know, well, I aus it was night
night two.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Or three, where I was like, I can't believe they
let me go home with him, Like how did they
let us go home with and we.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Don't know what we're doing? Yeah, it's no, it is terrifying.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
That's when I maybe Number one is when I called
you and I said I don't know how to swaddle
and you're on.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
The freeway and you're like, I'm coming over.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Oh, I remember that. I remember that call and I
remember that pull off the four or five. Actually think
it was the one on one anyways, So I think
one is definitely stressful or challenging or whatever word you
want to use.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Number two is a sneak attack because you're like, I
got this, I have by.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
One, I know what I'm doing, I'm comfortable, I'm cozy,
I'm I'm I know things. Also, by the way, worth mentioning,
as I think everyone who's about to have a baby
or has number one acts like they're the first person
in the entire world to have a baby, Like do
you have did you ever have that thing where you're
just like it's not superiority, but you're just like, oh,
(03:23):
you're reading up on all the things, and so you're like, oh,
let me tell you this new study. Oh no, no, no,
we have tolic home this. Oh no, we have to
use organic that. I must have been insufferable.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I was. I have to tell you, I was not
that parent, Like I was not that, but but I
met that a lot.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That was me.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, no, I was not.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, I would have did you take like Lama's class?
I didn't take one single birthing anything. I just thought
I could figure it out on the day.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Well, so many people have done it before us. That's
what I thought.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I was, like, what I just said, a little breathing,
a little push, Yeah, how hard can it be?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
How hard can it be? Really hard? It turns out
it was really really hard to turn.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So I think two is the sneaky sneak attack because
you think you know it and then all of a
sudden they come and you're like, wait a second, but
who's going to take care of the first one while I.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Do the second one?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, because it turns out you got to take care
of both of them.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Yeah, And usually, like I imagine that most of the time,
you're probably dealing with a toddler, right, Like, so you
have toddler energy and then baby baby energy.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the division.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And then I also remember getting home from the hospital
and wanting so badly for Luke's life to not be
affected by Eve that I was straight up like out
with him getting chicken tenders and fries the day after
I came home from the hospital, like sitting on my ice,
my ice. I still had ice in the underwear.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I was still using the spray thing. Oh yeah, the
numbing spray. Oh. Nobody told me about that. By the No,
they don't, they didn't know, they don't, they don't. They
don't tell you about that stuff before. They tell you after.
It's a better approach.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So wait, by baby number four, are you just like
with that spray?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
No, you know, no, maybe this is the sweet spot.
Maybe number four you're like me, You're like, how many stitches? Twenty?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Fine?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Were good? It's fine.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, So two I think is and then too is
stressful for that reason, you're taking care of the first.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
You don't even know that first one.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
You haven't even known them for that long, probably right,
you've only known them a couple of years.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, you're a professional here.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah they're they're new, you're new to them. Yeah, it's
still new. And then you got a real new, a
brand new. So you're learning that. And you know, we
just went straight into three. I mean, I look back
on it and I'm like, whatever you believe in, like
the forces, the life forces that Poppy James Gavigan.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Was coming in no matter what.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I'm in hot.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
She was coming in.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Hot because I was ten, I had a ten month old,
I had a three year old, a ten month old,
and I got pregnant.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
So Poppy's twenty months.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And I asked, you, did you can?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I ask if you plan that pregnancy? Yes, you planned
that pregnancy?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Were you out of your mind? Oh my god? You
know what it is though about you? And I actually literally.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Just said this on set yesterday, because I was on
set yesterday and someone was I was, you know, there
is a pregnancy on the show.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Oh, and I was talking about being pregnant, and.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I was like, copshot. You know we've talked about how
you are walking false.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Advertisement for pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I think that you were probably okay getting pregnant again
at ten months, as you like pregnancy, I do, yeah, yeah,
so it's not me. I would have been like, there's
no way I'm planning that pregnancy at ten months. Okay,
So ten months, Poppies coming in hot.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
So Poppy's coming in hot. I'm pregnant again. And then
when the third.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I remember the beginning of what probably completely happened with
the fourth, which is the surrender. It was the beginning
of the surrender. It was like, I'm I'm really out numbered.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean, like, on any given day, is it safe
for me to have them alone?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, that's what that's what don't I.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Need someone I don't care who to be honest, Experts
say that after three parents hit survival mode and let
go of perfection.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, yeah, well I didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I am a recovering perfectionist. I am a recovering people.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Please, you did not let go of perfection.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I have been over to your house many times, and
the organization is like expert level in your household.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It runs efficiently.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Will you see the organization as attempts at perfectionism. I
get that it actually is when you think about it.
The amount of time that I put into the organization
actually makes my life easier. So the organization is actually
survival Yeah, survival mode and like a there's a method
to my my mat It's like I'm I'm investing now
(08:28):
to get a little bit more payoff later when I'm organizing.
But I think that that was when there's started to
be some surrender and I it's a real reckoning with
I can't do it all.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I can't do it all, and I need help. I
need help with all the things.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Like I've always had help, Like you know, Christopher's an
incredible father, like super hands on, always there. I love
when people say the fathers are hands on, like what
are they going to hands off?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
He hands off?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So you know, incredible father and and I have incredible family.
So it's you know, it's it's not like I was
ever alone, but I think that sometimes you're alone with
your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Or you can make it.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
You can put that pressure on yourself like I gotta
do this, you know, I gotta do this, and I
gotta do.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
That, and that can make you feel alone.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
It's not the people around you that make you feel alone,
it's yours you.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
And I I think that I.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Started to understand definitely absolutely, in no way, shape or
form could you could I and and then and then
there was the little break, right because if they if
even Poppy were twenty months apart, then.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah, Poppy and Josie are almost four years apart. There
was a break, and then.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It was kind of like, oh gosh, you know, oh
is there another is there another baby that's coming?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
And then and then there was and now I can
say that four is pretty great.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I can't picture you without for yeah, like your crew
is like you're you got a squad, you got a.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Squad going over there. Yeah, and well now they're really all.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Such different ages I know, and I think gender probably
contributes to because I mean, I do think that they
do become like a pack and sometimes that works for
you and sometimes that works against you. I find the
most stressful thing the fighting, and I don't it's just
(10:37):
it's I didn't grow up fighting with my siblings, also
because I was like substantially older, like there was a
drop off after me. But I didn't fight with my siblings,
and uh so I don't I would. Actually, I'm realizing
this about myself in life lately. I don't really feel
like I'm not all that good at fighting. Like I
(10:57):
think there's actually an efficient and like a good way fighting,
like being fair so interesting. Well, and that's what I
keep saying to the kids.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
I feel like we've talked about this before, but it was.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's that idea that you're actually not you're you're meant
to fight, but the secret is you need to fight. Well, yes,
we've talked about that, yeah, yeah, and I didn't really
learn that. So when my kids start fighting sometimes, well
I used to get a lot more stressed out about
it because I wanted to fix it right away, Like
I wanted.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
The fight to be over. I wanted them to get
to the good part, the part where.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
They say and sometimes you just got to sit in
the there's a little bit of surrender there too.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You're like, all right, just don't kill each other, don't
hurt each other. This is so interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Okay, I want to know how you navigate this because
I have obviously my kids are eight and five, so
it's a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
And they're like, I mean, they're arguing over the stupidest
all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Do you let the girls, because the girls are in
the house right now, do you let if they're in
a fight? Do you find that like the third one
wants to take a side? And you're like, how you
navigating the two against one?
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Potentially? Because that's what I.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Didn't like growing right, I didn't like, like, you know,
that kind of dynamic.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Usually it's usually it's actually only ever one on one.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
But that's so good. So the other one isn't getting involved? No,
not really, not really. Oh that's good. That's good. I
don't know if it's good or bad. It's just that's
how they do. That's how they do.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Do you think that because I've thought of it about
this too. I literally talked about having more kids the
other day, not that I'm having more kids, just like the.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Conversation of it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I don't know if I would be as good
of a mom in a way to like more than
my two. I feel like I just have like I
feel like i'd start to tap out, yeah, a little bit,
because it's like you're just juggling so many balls. Do
I think feel that way with four? Or do you
feel like I can give every I can still do it,
(12:57):
or maybe that's an individual thing where like I can't
but you can't.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I think it's so individual. I think everybody has a
different breaking point. Everybody has. You know, the thing that
super stresses me out may not be stressful to you
at all. So it's like, really, I mean, I think
it's so fascinating that people like to talk about parenting
because it's just such a unique experience.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I think. I think the.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Reason why people like to talk about it is because
it's great to hear other perspectives. It's nice and it's
nice to and if you're in an environment where you're
not judging each other and you're not you know, telling
each other what to do, you're just sharing your experience,
you know, because again, I don't know, there's there's some
there's certain days that I could truly answer that I
(13:38):
find that I'm that I don't think that it's too much,
and that I I would report complete happiness and satisfaction
and having.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Four and yeah, yay.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
But then there's other days where I'm like, I mean,
you know, we've we've talked about this too. They'll they'll
once they get school age, they'll they'll get you with
those admin all that admin stuff that that that like
who just all the pay pit well, the non paperwork.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I think it's also like the part that's like now
they're having interests that one wants to do gymnastics, one
wants to do soccer. Now you're here now, I literally
don't know how you do.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It with four.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like even with two when Lucasy is young, he doesn't
have a lot going on, he's little. Once they're like
I just don't understand, Like just purely the amount that
you're driving kids around in the car with four just
blows my mind.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah you do, and then and you're like good until
you're not. It's funny. I had a bunch of driving
to do the other day and I was like, thum, cool,
We're chilling in the car, and then I got out
and all of a sudden, Guy, I truly I became
It was like Burgergad all over again.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I roared. I was like, it just hit my limit.
Like nobody talked to me. I'm driving you all. I
blame them, you know, like I've been driving out a
day for you.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
They're like, actually, it's just called getting where I need
to be. Make it a personal This isn't about you, mom, keep.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Fine, it's not about me. My god.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Do you think it helped that you grew up and
then your mom had so many kids?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, I mean I grew up very familiar with lots
of people, and I find that it's such an emotional hug,
Like I love being around all of them, and so
I just you know.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
It's great. Listen, it's worked out for me. I think
it's not for everyone.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I think it's fascinating when people come out with these
studies that say, you know, one.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Is the best or two is the best is the best?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I think that this is just a nice, little, nice
little chuckle. I think that I think there's always going
to be chaos and there's always going to be peace
and that's just that's what you sign up for when
you when you have any amount of kids. And I
think what's so important that I don't think it gets
said enough is however many kids you want to have,
is exactly how many kids you have? Yeah, you know
(15:55):
what I mean, Like, it's so personal. I love when
people own, like, you know what, I'm good with one. Yeah,
you know what, I'm going to have ten and you
can all have your opinions about it, and I don't care.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
You know, it's so true.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I think it's a knowing about yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Yeah, it's a knowing.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's like how we've talked so many times about like
after three, you're like, there's one more, yes, yes, And
after two I was like, there's definitely none.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, there's none. There's no more?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
This is what we got? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, all right, let's call it just the end of
the episode.
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, call It crew, and welcome
to another episode of Short and Sweet.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Oh we're going to talk about kids and that's so sweet.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I sent this to you. You did, It's like, don't
answer me.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I want to know your answer on the podcast?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
What'd you send me?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well? I sent you an article and it talked about
how having four kids is apparently.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
The least stressful number of children.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
They say a survey conducted by Today of seven thousand
US mothers have found which ideal number of kids for
the least stressful life is four. And I thought, I
know someone that has four children and would probably like
to speak on this, And so here I am pulling
my hair out over too, and I was like, if
(01:18):
I just had two more.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
If you'd only had two more, you'd be the soops, chill,
so chill. Yeah, you could have it all.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Because let's definitely talk about how easy it is to
have four children, because that's just the truth.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, yeah, super easy. So let's make that seem like
it's not stressful. I'm gonna I'm gonna laugh this whole
short and sweet. You know I'm when I hand the
mic to you. Yeah, okay, let's do it as a
four kid expert.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
There's no such thing, okay. So I mean again, I
always have follow up questions. So it really just depends
on who you are. That's the number one thing to say.
But I was thinking about the different because obviously you
go from one to two to three to four, and
I was trying to think about what it was like
when there was.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
One and when there was two and three.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
All the difference is and I think, you know, going
in order, I think that one is definitely probably the
most challenging because it's all new. Yeah, and I definitely
remember having baby Luke on.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Day I don't know, well, I aus it was night
night two.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Or three, where I was like, I can't believe they
let me go home with him, Like how did they
let us go home with and we.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Don't know what we're doing? Yeah, it's no, it is terrifying.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
That's when I maybe Number one is when I called
you and I said I don't know how to swaddle
and you're on.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
The freeway and you're like, I'm coming over.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Oh, I remember that. I remember that call and I
remember that pull off the four or five. Actually think
it was the one on one anyways, So I think
one is definitely stressful or challenging or whatever word you
want to use.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Number two is a sneak attack because you're like, I
got this, I have by.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
One, I know what I'm doing, I'm comfortable, I'm cozy,
I'm I'm I know things. Also, by the way, worth mentioning,
as I think everyone who's about to have a baby
or has number one acts like they're the first person
in the entire world to have a baby, Like do
you have did you ever have that thing where you're
just like it's not superiority, but you're just like, oh,
(03:23):
you're reading up on all the things, and so you're like, oh,
let me tell you this new study. Oh no, no, no,
we have tolic home this. Oh no, we have to
use organic that. I must have been insufferable.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I was. I have to tell you, I was not
that parent, Like I was not that, but but I
met that a lot.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That was me.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah, no, I was not.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, I would have did you take like Lama's class?
I didn't take one single birthing anything. I just thought
I could figure it out on the day.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Well, so many people have done it before us. That's
what I thought.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I was, like, what I just said, a little breathing,
a little push, Yeah, how hard can it be?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
How hard can it be? Really hard? It turns out
it was really really hard to turn.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So I think two is the sneaky sneak attack because
you think you know it and then all of a
sudden they come and you're like, wait a second, but
who's going to take care of the first one while I.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Do the second one?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, because it turns out you got to take care
of both of them.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Yeah, And usually, like I imagine that most of the time,
you're probably dealing with a toddler, right, Like, so you
have toddler energy and then baby baby energy.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the division.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And then I also remember getting home from the hospital
and wanting so badly for Luke's life to not be
affected by Eve that I was straight up like out
with him getting chicken tenders and fries the day after
I came home from the hospital, like sitting on my ice,
my ice. I still had ice in the underwear.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I was still using the spray thing. Oh yeah, the
numbing spray. Oh. Nobody told me about that. By the No,
they don't, they didn't know, they don't, they don't. They
don't tell you about that stuff before. They tell you after.
It's a better approach.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So wait, by baby number four, are you just like
with that spray?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
No, you know, no, maybe this is the sweet spot.
Maybe number four you're like me, You're like, how many stitches? Twenty?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Fine?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Were good? It's fine.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, So two I think is and then too is
stressful for that reason, you're taking care of the first.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
You don't even know that first one.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
You haven't even known them for that long, probably right,
you've only known them a couple of years.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Yeah, you're a professional here.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah they're they're new, you're new to them. Yeah, it's
still new. And then you got a real new, a
brand new. So you're learning that. And you know, we
just went straight into three. I mean, I look back
on it and I'm like, whatever you believe in, like
the forces, the life forces that Poppy James Gavigan.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
Was coming in no matter what.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I'm in hot.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
She was coming in.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Hot because I was ten, I had a ten month old,
I had a three year old, a ten month old,
and I got pregnant.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
So Poppy's twenty months.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And I asked, you, did you can?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I ask if you plan that pregnancy? Yes, you planned
that pregnancy?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Were you out of your mind? Oh my god? You
know what it is though about you? And I actually literally.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Just said this on set yesterday, because I was on
set yesterday and someone was I was, you know, there
is a pregnancy on the show.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Oh, and I was talking about being pregnant, and.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I was like, copshot. You know we've talked about how
you are walking false.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Advertisement for pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I think that you were probably okay getting pregnant again
at ten months, as you like pregnancy, I do, yeah, yeah,
so it's not me. I would have been like, there's
no way I'm planning that pregnancy at ten months. Okay,
So ten months, Poppies coming in hot.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
So Poppy's coming in hot. I'm pregnant again. And then
when the third.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I remember the beginning of what probably completely happened with
the fourth, which is the surrender. It was the beginning
of the surrender. It was like, I'm I'm really out numbered.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean, like, on any given day, is it safe
for me to have them alone?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Well, that's what that's what don't I.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Need someone I don't care who to be honest, Experts
say that after three parents hit survival mode and let
go of perfection.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, yeah, well I didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I am a recovering perfectionist. I am a recovering people.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Please, you did not let go of perfection.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I have been over to your house many times, and
the organization is like expert level in your household.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It runs efficiently.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Will you see the organization as attempts at perfectionism. I
get that it actually is when you think about it.
The amount of time that I put into the organization
actually makes my life easier. So the organization is actually
survival Yeah, survival mode and like a there's a method
to my my mat It's like I'm I'm investing now
(08:28):
to get a little bit more payoff later when I'm organizing.
But I think that that was when there's started to
be some surrender and I it's a real reckoning with
I can't do it all.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I can't do it all, and I need help. I
need help with all the things.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Like I've always had help, Like you know, Christopher's an
incredible father, like super hands on, always there. I love
when people say the fathers are hands on, like what
are they going to hands off?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
He hands off?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
So you know, incredible father and and I have incredible family.
So it's you know, it's it's not like I was
ever alone, but I think that sometimes you're alone with
your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Or you can make it.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
You can put that pressure on yourself like I gotta
do this, you know, I gotta do this, and I
gotta do.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
That, and that can make you feel alone.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
It's not the people around you that make you feel alone,
it's yours you.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
And I I think that I.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Started to understand definitely absolutely, in no way, shape or
form could you could I and and then and then
there was the little break, right because if they if
even Poppy were twenty months apart, then.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah, Poppy and Josie are almost four years apart. There
was a break, and then.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It was kind of like, oh gosh, you know, oh
is there another is there another baby that's coming?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
And then and then there was and now I can
say that four is pretty great.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I can't picture you without for yeah, like your crew
is like you're you got a squad, you got a.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Squad going over there. Yeah, and well now they're really all.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Such different ages I know, and I think gender probably
contributes to because I mean, I do think that they
do become like a pack and sometimes that works for
you and sometimes that works against you. I find the
most stressful thing the fighting, and I don't it's just
(10:37):
it's I didn't grow up fighting with my siblings, also
because I was like substantially older, like there was a
drop off after me. But I didn't fight with my siblings,
and uh so I don't I would. Actually, I'm realizing
this about myself in life lately. I don't really feel
like I'm not all that good at fighting. Like I
(10:57):
think there's actually an efficient and like a good way fighting,
like being fair so interesting. Well, and that's what I
keep saying to the kids.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
I feel like we've talked about this before, but it was.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's that idea that you're actually not you're you're meant
to fight, but the secret is you need to fight. Well, yes,
we've talked about that, yeah, yeah, and I didn't really
learn that. So when my kids start fighting sometimes, well
I used to get a lot more stressed out about
it because I wanted to fix it right away, Like
I wanted.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
The fight to be over. I wanted them to get
to the good part, the part where.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
They say and sometimes you just got to sit in
the there's a little bit of surrender there too.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You're like, all right, just don't kill each other, don't
hurt each other. This is so interesting to me.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Okay, I want to know how you navigate this because
I have obviously my kids are eight and five, so
it's a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
And they're like, I mean, they're arguing over the stupidest
all the time.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Do you let the girls, because the girls are in
the house right now, do you let if they're in
a fight? Do you find that like the third one
wants to take a side? And you're like, how you
navigating the two against one?
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Potentially? Because that's what I.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Didn't like growing right, I didn't like, like, you know,
that kind of dynamic.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Usually it's usually it's actually only ever one on one.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
But that's so good. So the other one isn't getting involved? No,
not really, not really. Oh that's good. That's good. I
don't know if it's good or bad. It's just that's
how they do. That's how they do.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Do you think that because I've thought of it about
this too. I literally talked about having more kids the
other day, not that I'm having more kids, just like the.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Conversation of it.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I don't know if I would be as good
of a mom in a way to like more than
my two. I feel like I just have like I
feel like i'd start to tap out, yeah, a little bit,
because it's like you're just juggling so many balls. Do
I think feel that way with four? Or do you
feel like I can give every I can still do it,
(12:57):
or maybe that's an individual thing where like I can't
but you can't.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I think it's so individual. I think everybody has a
different breaking point. Everybody has. You know, the thing that
super stresses me out may not be stressful to you
at all. So it's like, really, I mean, I think
it's so fascinating that people like to talk about parenting
because it's just such a unique experience.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
I think. I think the.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Reason why people like to talk about it is because
it's great to hear other perspectives. It's nice and it's
nice to and if you're in an environment where you're
not judging each other and you're not you know, telling
each other what to do, you're just sharing your experience,
you know, because again, I don't know, there's there's some
there's certain days that I could truly answer that I
(13:38):
find that I'm that I don't think that it's too much,
and that I I would report complete happiness and satisfaction
and having.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Four and yeah, yay.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
But then there's other days where I'm like, I mean,
you know, we've we've talked about this too. They'll they'll
once they get school age, they'll they'll get you with
those admin all that admin stuff that that that like
who just all the pay pit well, the non paperwork.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I think it's also like the part that's like now
they're having interests that one wants to do gymnastics, one
wants to do soccer. Now you're here now, I literally
don't know how you do.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It with four.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like even with two when Lucasy is young, he doesn't
have a lot going on, he's little. Once they're like
I just don't understand, Like just purely the amount that
you're driving kids around in the car with four just
blows my mind.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah you do, and then and you're like good until
you're not. It's funny. I had a bunch of driving
to do the other day and I was like, thum, cool,
We're chilling in the car, and then I got out
and all of a sudden, Guy, I truly I became
It was like Burgergad all over again.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I roared. I was like, it just hit my limit.
Like nobody talked to me. I'm driving you all. I
blame them, you know, like I've been driving out a
day for you.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
They're like, actually, it's just called getting where I need
to be. Make it a personal This isn't about you, mom, keep.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Fine, it's not about me. My god.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Do you think it helped that you grew up and
then your mom had so many kids?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, I mean I grew up very familiar with lots
of people, and I find that it's such an emotional hug,
Like I love being around all of them, and so
I just you know.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
It's great. Listen, it's worked out for me. I think
it's not for everyone.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I think it's fascinating when people come out with these
studies that say, you know, one.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Is the best or two is the best is the best?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I think that this is just a nice, little, nice
little chuckle. I think that I think there's always going
to be chaos and there's always going to be peace
and that's just that's what you sign up for when
you when you have any amount of kids. And I
think what's so important that I don't think it gets
said enough is however many kids you want to have,
is exactly how many kids you have? Yeah, you know
(15:55):
what I mean, Like, it's so personal. I love when
people own, like, you know what, I'm good with one. Yeah,
you know what, I'm going to have ten and you
can all have your opinions about it, and I don't care.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
You know, it's so true.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I think it's a knowing about yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Yeah, it's a knowing.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's like how we've talked so many times about like
after three, you're like, there's one more, yes, yes, And
after two I was like, there's definitely none.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, there's none. There's no more?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Is it?
Speaker 4 (16:23):
This is what we got? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, all right, let's call it just the end of
the episode.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
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