July 13, 2023 • 30 mins
Today, I speak to Dr. Debaki Charkrabarti who will address moms’ emotional health, sharing her own story of being a single mom by choice and introducing us to Dialectical Behavior Therapy , or DBT, a type of psychotherapy that combines emotion regulation with concepts of distress tolerance, acceptance, and mindful awareness.
With specialized training in addiction and trauma, Debaki offers concrete tools to help clients manage their emotions, finding alternative ways to self-soothe and cope with overwhelming situations. She forms a treatment plan in collaboration with her clients, identifying goals upfront and leveraging existing strengths to tap into their inner resilience.
Talk therapy may not immediately solve the problem of our immense mental load, but after this conversation, you may be more open to therapy being a safe space to work on coping mechanisms and to create a blueprint that guides you on a path forward which includes understanding, radical acceptance, and a kick ass self soothing kit!
You can learn more about Debaki on her website: www.drdebaki.com
Connect with her on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/debaki-chakrabarti-phd
Additional reading:
Radical Acceptance:
Marsha Linehan (psychologist who developed DBT): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTG7YEWkJFI
Marsha Linehan's foundation:
https://behavioraltech.org/on-radical-acceptance-part-1/
https://dbtselfhelp.com/dbt-skills-list/distress-tolerance/radical-acceptance/
Self-soothing:
https://dbt.tools/distress_tolerance/self-soothe.php
https://dbtselfhelp.com/dbt-skills-list/distress-tolerance/self-soothe/
Cashing our Trillions is Hosted and Produced by Common Solutions Media and Yvonne So. You can connect with me on Instagram @yso_mom, LinkedIn @yvonnecot, or e-mail me at cashingourtrillions@gmail.com
Sound Engineering by Tiezheng Shen. You can reach him at dacapopresents@gmail.com
Cover artwork graphic design by Jessie Li. You can reach her at jessieli.pers@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, their family. Welcome back to Cashing our Trillions. I'm
your host, Yvonne So I'm a full time state home
mom of three boys, and this podcast is a space
to value the trillion dollar economy of unpaid labor shouldered
by moms. As we've addressed all season long, it's not
(00:28):
just the unpaid labor of childcare, caring for a home,
and raising a family that's problematic a lot of the times.
It's all the additional baggage shouldered largely by moms that
weighs on our minds and adds to our time poverty.
(00:52):
Noting that nearly every other advanced country makes greater public
investments and care than the United States, president by and
pass an executive order in April of this year to
increase access to high quality care and support caregivers. In
this executive order, our President acknowledged that without adequate resources,
(01:14):
family caregiving can affect caregiver's own physical and emotional health
and well being, and contribute to financial strain. These negative
consequences are felt most acutely by women, who make up
nearly two thirds of family caregivers and drop out of
the workforce at a rate three times higher than men. Today,
(01:38):
I speak with doctor Debick Charcarbarti, who will address mom's
emotional health, sharing her own story of being a single
mom by choice, and introducing us to dialectical behavior therapy
or DBT, a type of psychotherapy that combines emotion regulation
with concepts of distress, tolerance, acceptance, and mindful awareness. With
(02:01):
specialized training and addiction and trauma, Depugee offers concrete tools
to help clients manage their emotions, finding alternative ways to
self soothe and cope with overwhelming situations. She forms a
treatment plan in collaboration with her clients, identifying goals upfront
and leveraging existing strengths to tap into their inner resilience.
(02:25):
Absolutely perfect for stressed out moms right. This is a
unique episode because Depukeye is also a dear friend of
mine and someone who's been in my life for more
than twenty years. We, along with our fellow girlfriends Sheila
and Sylvia, met straight out of college in the bear
Stearns Investment Banking program and have navigated life together ever since.
(02:49):
Once you hear the both of us, it will become immediately evident.
Debukee is a calm and measured girlfriend in our relationship.
We hope that our history and our ability to be
open with each other will help in this more difficult
conversation about mom's mental health. Talk therapy may not immediately
solve the problems of our immense mental load, but after
(03:10):
this conversation, you may be more open to therapy being
a safe space to work on coping mechanisms and to
create a blueprint that guides you on a path forward,
which includes understanding, radical acceptance and a kick ass sells
soothing kids. The theme that came out in every single
(03:39):
episode that I had is there's always that mental health
element of the problem, right It's like, oh, we were
having a hard time finding childcare, we don't have proper
maternity leave, and that does weigh on us as moms.
And then like all of this is within our social
construct right now, which seems so dire. So what are
(04:03):
things that moms can do? How do we manage all
that in our head?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
On an individual like personal level, I try to think about, like,
you know, what are the messages that I'm getting and
internalizing about who I should be as a mother and
as a person.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Well, that's hard. All the messages tell me I have
to be everything exactly all at once, right, Yes, I
have to have a full time job, I have to
bring in money, I have to take care of my kids,
have to make sure they're fed. I have to make
sure they're good students, get in to school on time,
get them to all their dental appointments exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah. Yeah, So there's this theme of the all sacrificing
mother who gives up her own needs, whose focus is
on the other, on her children, on people around her,
on her society, on her community, and that comes first.
And you know, from a cultural perspective, I've definitely seen
it house parties when I was younger, Like, you know,
(05:01):
the woman would eat last, the kids might get fed first,
and then in a very traditional heterosexual situation, like the
dads would eat next and then the moms. Those are
like subtle messages that get internalized, like I can't put
my needs first. I have to make sure I do
everything that I can to make sure my daughter is
(05:23):
ready and then I can like start eating. But like
I have to take care of all of this other
stuff before I get to myself and get to my
own self care or get to my own sense of
decompression and just like release and calm. I notice, if
I don't take care of myself, then I'm going to
be less patient. Then I'm less present, I'm more tired,
(05:46):
I'm more exhausted.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So relatable, right, Debbie just mentioned her South Asian culture
and growing up going to house parties where the women
would put the needs of everyone else before their own. Offline,
Debikian and I have also spoken about this idea the
self sacrificing mother, who is also reflected and reinforced in
Hindu religion with Durga or the mother goddess who is
(06:10):
strong but self sacrificing as the model of womanhood. We
see plenty of these examples in our everyday lives, and
the impact of unrealistic expectations and internalizing these ideals that
are also sometimes deeply ingrained in our culture can definitely
lead to anxiety, depression, and burnout. Depikey continues by talking
(06:33):
about high dialectical behavior therapy or DBT can be used
as a tool to apply mindfulness and learn coping mechanisms
to help us tackle the stressing situations, including daily mothering.
Can you talk about DBT and how it's useful as
a therapy tool?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So, DBT is dialectical behavioral therapy. It was initially designed
for individuals who had trouble regulating their motions and we're
engaging in suicidal or pair of suicidal behaviors or self
harm behaviors. Since then, DBT has been applied across the
board in a wide variety of settings, so you see
DBT in schools and corporations. In addition to the therapeutic context,
(07:19):
within DBT, there's four modules. There's a distressed tolerance module,
so basically, when I go from zero to hundred, how
can I tolerate being at level hundred and act in
ways that are in line with who I want to
be versus falling back into behaviors that might be destructive
or maladaptive. There's emotion regulation, how do I recognize what
I'm feeling, identify it, and then dial it up or
(07:41):
dial it down depending on the situation. There's also interpersonal effectiveness,
which is engaging with another individual, like how do I
manage relationships? How do I have respect for myself, the
other person and the relationship itself and different tools to
help us do that. And underpinning all of this is
(08:02):
an entire module on mindfulness. How does mindfulness itself help
us regulate our emotions? How does it help us tolerate
these distressing situations, and how does it help us engage
in relationships and the way that we want to engage
in them?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So in that moment, like, what are some exercises moms
can do to kind of catch yourself, to center it
on yourself and to release.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, yeah, on myself? What I do and what I
try to help patients with, what's in my mind and
what's in my body? So what are the things that
I'm telling myself that I should be doing? And catching
that word should? And where am I feeling it in
my body? Like how am I feeling it?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Like?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Where in my body am I feeling it? How is
it moving around and trying to notice? Like Okay, am
I saying things like I don't deserve this or I
don't deserve to eat until I do X, Y and
Z catching that thought? Wait a second, is that thought
serving me? Is that thought in line with the kind
of mother I want to be and the kind of
mother I want to model for my daughter? Like do
(09:07):
I want to teach her those same things that I
think I've internalized from society and not just and I
wouldn't even say family culture. I think it's like the
broader culture as you were saying, like you know, you
have to be everything at the sacrifice of yourself. What
message do I want her to internalize based on what
she's seeing. I'm like, no, I do deserve to eat.
(09:27):
I'm going to sit down and eat with her, or
maybe I'll eat first. If I'm really really hu hungry,
I'll eat first. When I think about my body, where
do I feel my tension? I feel it in my shoulders.
If I notice that tension, how can I help myself
in that moment? Years ago, I learned about deep breathing,
and I'm like, this is so calming. So like, you know,
there's different breathing exercises that I personally do. Whether it's
(09:51):
like box breathing where you breathe in for account of four,
hold for account of four, and then release for account
of four. That sometimes is helpful for me.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Isn't that takes practice? Though? I try to do that,
and then it like messes up my breathing and I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Then that one may not be the idea one, and
it's oh okay, So I think it does take practice.
But then two there are other versions, like I breathe
in for a kind of like you know seven, hold
maybe for a kind of two, and then release for
a kind of eight or something. I don't even count.
Sometimes I just breathe in until I.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Just breathe deeper than you normally do exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, yeah, so like until my lungs fill up and
like imagine my everything like releasing my body. I do that.
I also got a weighted blanket that I put around
my shoulder. So when I noticed myself feeling like especially tense,
and it's like, how do I know that? I feel it,
you know, in my shoulders, I feel in the back
of my neck. I feel it in the back of
my head often, so like you know, even reminding myself,
(10:54):
just drop your shoulders, Just drop your shoulders. That helps.
This weighted blanket that I put around like a shawl.
I think he loves that too. I put that on me,
and then sometimes also to help her regulate if needed,
I put the way to blanket on her and I
give her a massage using it. Okay, so that is
more like coregulation. So like if you notice that your
(11:16):
kid is getting like completely bonkers or crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
But that's a good point because like how we show
up as moms and all the stress that we internalize
also sometimes is reflected on them, So we have to
be cognizant of managing ourselves as well.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Another part of DBT is like, you know, we impact
our environment and our environment impacts us. So keeping that
in mind also as a mom is like what pressure
is am I putting on myself? Like what am I
putting on myself right now? Influencing both me and the
people around me? And then trying to take a step
back and be like, okay, so what is important to me?
(11:58):
Like what kind of mom do I want to be?
What kind of daughter, what kind of sister, what kind
of friend? And how can I shift in that direction?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Is this something that you do all throughout the day
or is this like for somebody new to DBT, Like
is this something I do at the end of the day,
like weekly, monthly, quarterly, I.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Would qlutterly, I would probably recommend doing it once a day,
like you know, coming with that once a day, checking
in with like okay, so how am I feeling, Like
what's happening for me? What are some of the thoughts
that I'm having? What am I noticing in my body.
How can I reflect on the day and just giving
(12:40):
yourself that little bit of time just for yourself to
check in with yourself and be like, Okay, what's happening
and how am I sitting with myself? How am I
relating with myself? And I wouldn't spend a lot of time.
I would just spend like maybe five minutes, five minutes
like doing that check in process, because I think it's
that check in process that helps us be more present
(13:03):
and more mindful. Like that. The word mindful is I
think everywhere. Yeah, And the idea of being mindful is like, yeah,
noticing what's coming up for the individual in this moment.
What am I thinking? What am I feeling? Where do
I notice my mind going? Am I checking out? Am
I tuning out? Can I bring myself back? So it's
the practice I think of being in tune with the
(13:26):
moment as it is and trying to cultivate acceptance around it,
trying to cultivate like self compassion.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's great. Oh the moms that come to you, like
what are their major issues? Like what do they want
to work through?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Trying to have a sense of balance is coming through.
I have a mom who struggles with her own anger.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, I feel all those things, So how do we
work through that? I feel like those are basic building
blocks of being a mom, especially for me I have
more kids like that. Of course, I maintain a level
of anger all throughout the tell help me manage that.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
It's yeah, so it's like, how so if the first
step is like how do I relate to these emotions?
Like how do I relate to my anger? And often
that's influenced by what we might have been through in
the past. Okay, so what are my messages? Like what
do I internalize around these different emotions? And then how
can I notice how it shows up? But you know,
(14:28):
it's part of what makes us human and everybody feels it.
We feel it to different degrees at different times. Different
things activate us and trigger us, and we express it differently.
And I think all of those things are influenced by
both are present and are past. And it's trying to
understand like, okay, so how is this manifesting for me?
(14:49):
And how do I allow myself to express this and
feel well? Wanet allow myself to feel it and then
to express it in a way that feels healthy. You
know what would look like a healthy way of expressing
those emotions. You can't get rid of emotions, you can't
get rid of the anger. I think some people when
they feel certain strong emotions that are tied to a
(15:11):
negative or unpleasant experience, it's like, I shouldn't feel this.
I shouldn't feel anxiety, I shouldn't feel this anger, I
shouldn't feel the sadness. Part of mindfulness is practicing it.
There's so many different ways of practicing it. But I
love the self soothing thing because it's about it's really
about taking care of yourself. And I think as a mom,
(15:31):
we're programmed to take care of others. So taking that
moment to take care of yourself in whichever ways, is
going to resonate with you.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You're listening to cashing our trillions and what do you
think moms would benefit the most from?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, I was thinking about that. Within distress tolerance, there's
different ways of tolerating distress, and so we can put
up links to like DBT, so there's like the accept skills,
improve skills, and self soothing things. I might focus on
self soothing. If you're feeling distressed, for feeling emotionally raw,
(16:05):
how can you soothe yourself using your senses, like what's
beautiful to the eye, what's something that you listen to?
And you know, most people probably do this organically on
some level anyway. It's like, you know, there might be
music that you gravitate to if you're feeling a certain way.
Some people love sense and aroma. So it's like doing
these things in a very conscious way. It's like, I'm
(16:27):
noticing that I'm feeling down. How can I like soothe
myself and nurture my own self? How can I bring
comfort to my own self? I think that is once
so self soothing, engaging with our senses, what's pleasing to
the eye, listening, sound, touch, taste, and smell. In the
groups that I've done before, and this is part of DBT,
(16:49):
it's like creating a self soothing kit, so basically creating
a little box of stuff that is just for you
that you enjoy, that you can pull out anytime. Hopefully
when you're doing this practice, it's engaging with this idea
of like, yeah, self compassion, take care of yourself, allow
yourself to feel that comfort, and what are ways that
you can do it? And I think as moms is
to be mindful of like all those things that impact
(17:13):
how we feel right now, and if there is a
way to extend that self compassion. It's like, yeah, I
had a totally busy morning. I was running around. I
didn't have a chance to have breakfast or lunch, and
so now I'm feeling like really really like enraged. Okay,
that makes sense. You know I didn't have a chance
to eat before, and so instead of I think my
(17:36):
tendency sometimes was to be self blaming. It's like, oh,
why didn't I do that? Why didn't I, like, you know,
plan better? Why didn't I cope ahead? Why didn't I
use my own skills?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
While you're talking, I'm like, can you just crawl into
my mind and just navigate my brain?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Thank you? I wish I had a little person right
when I'm going to like self blame or self criticism,
pivot like, Okay, I notice that feeling that came up
and be like, okay, so why why else might I
be feeling all your inner debatey? Thank you. I think
(18:17):
as moms were expected to give so much of ourselves
and to give to others, and that is wonderful in
many ways. But I think the reminder might be you know,
give to yourself and take care of yourself, alle your
self comfort. Whichever way it looks like, you know, whether
it's like something like a self soothing kid, or it's
like I'm.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Gonna make my kids make myself soothing kid.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh that's a great get three of them.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I know. I was like, you know what, that would
be so good if the boys made it.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yes, what do you think, mom? Yes, that's awesome. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You can tie that into some of the mindfulness techniques
that you mentioned earlier as well.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Absolutely, it's like, yeah, you know, how do you eat
a piece of chocolate mindfully?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Shove my shove it in my face cookie monster style.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Tendency to do that. My daughter loves cookie monster. But
if we so, it's the process of slowing down. So
mindfully eating a piece of chocolate is like slowing down
that process and savoring like almost every single second, and
the experience of having that piece of chocolate can be
(19:38):
incredibly satisfying and stopping at one which is hard. I mean,
I do not talk.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I'm so fun. I feel like talking to you like
this is such a reflection of our friendship too, Like
you are like the calm zen mindful one, and I'm like,
where do we get to this point? Where's my chocolate?
Where's my gratification? How many times I have to do
this before I feel good? You know?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I think those thoughts too. I mean I definitely have them.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And let's just rewind a little bit. So let's just
talk about your life as a single mom by choice
raising your daughter and what brought you to therapy work.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I can't believe you've been friends for like twenty two years. Yeah,
you know, two thousand and one when we started bare.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Don't date Us debicy Just kidding, Oh, I know that's true.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I mean, like, you know, nine to eleven happened, and
I was reading a lot of like human rights stuff,
and I was looking at the work that I was doing.
This can absolutely make sense for someone and it's influencing
the world in a certain way. But I want to
live my life in a very different way than I
applied to grad school and went towards clinical psychology, and
(20:52):
that's where I was first introduced to dialectical behavioral therapy
being able to help people shift their lives in amazing ways.
Single mom by choice that was a more difficult decision culturally.
There was an expectation of very traditional, very like you
get married, then you have kids, and then you know,
so on. I was married at one point and we
(21:14):
were not on the same page in terms of how
we were growing. Started our relationship in our early twenties,
and you know, the relationship ended in our mid thirties,
and by that point we're completely different people. What we
wanted out of life were not aligned. So that relationship
needed to end and did, and then I started my
(21:36):
path to be a single mom by choice. That path
took a couple of years. It was super intense.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, I remember that time.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, yeah, and all.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
The different rounds of IBF.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yes, the rounds, all those medications, those injections, and you know,
I can't even believe that I went through all of
that stuff and did all of that. I was like
working like all the time to try to make up
enough money to be able to pay for IVF.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Back then, it was all out of pocket too, right,
It wasn't covered.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It was mostly my medications actually were covered. Okay, Yeah,
so that helped quite a bit. I lived on a
fourth floor walk up, didn't have cable, didn't have a TV.
I don't think I turned on gas.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Just to pay for all the medication.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Well, just like you know, just to bring down costs.
I lived in a very frugal way.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You made mindful decisions to save money.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, and it was helpful because then I was able
to do as many rounds as I needed. And so
grateful that I have my daughter now and she's four
and a half. And I'm also really grateful that I
have the support of my family and like wonderful friends,
my parents are enormously helpful. I don't think I'd be
able to do this without them. I mean just in
(22:54):
terms of the support and just being able to get
through the day. Sometimes my parents went to India for
a couple of a couple of weeks and I felt
what it was like to be a true single parent,
and it was incredibly, incredibly exhausting, incredibly stressful, far more
than what I experience on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And you're talking more about the emotional support here, because
you're like, that's not even considering the financial aspects of
having to raise you and your daughter yourself. This is
just having your parents there, like as your village and
your people who help you emotionally get through the day.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yea emotionally, but things like you know, food sometimes like
you know, meals and babysitting, Like I know, childcare is
so so expensive, and I think quality childcare is hard
to find. I just have the utmost trust with my parents.
My mind is much more at ease knowing that my
(23:55):
parents are with her, like right now, Yeah, while we
can talk, I should be hanging around here.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Study after study shows that this lack of affordable and
reliable childcare is the number one factor keeping US moms
out of the workforce. It's also important to note that
this national childcare crisis disproportionately affects single moms, who can
spend up to thirty percent of their salary on childcare costs.
(24:27):
To begin, I discussed some of the other small factors
those of us in partnered relationships take for granted, but
add to the mental toll of single parenting and how
she personally copes with this added pressure of pulling double duty,
even choosing a school that's all on you, so little
life decisions for your family is all the burden is
(24:51):
on you. So I never even really thought about that
before too, because I always have a sounding board with Jay,
but with you, there's added pressure because if you don't
get it right, it's just me.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, I bounce off ideas with my parents and you know,
my sister from time to time, but ultimately that final
decision is me, and that can be a lot Like
that's sometimes like you know, what if I make the
wrong decision or choose the wrong path for whatever reason,
that sometimes weighs on me quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And then so how do you cope with that?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's a really good question. I do a lot of DBT,
and yeah, I use the skills that I tell my
patients to you. There's one that's also based on like
Zen Buddhism called radical acceptance, and like, you know, one
of the other tenets of like DBT is like most
people are doing the best that they can in any
given moment based on their ability, skills, resources, everything that
(25:48):
they have. And so I have to remind myself that
whatever decision I'm making at any given time, I know
I'm trying my best and it's based on the information
that I have at this moment. I have to accept
that that that that's all I can do. You can
be proactive. I try to bring that into my own
life as much as I can and recognize that, yeah,
there's there's limited information.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
But does that make you like fall down a deeper
rabbit hole searching for information or does that do you
really come to this moment you're like, Okay, I release
to the universe.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I often release to the universe, right.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I feel like that's your personality too, Like that's how
we've always known each other, because like for me, I
would be like, but I can find more information.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
It's like and you're like, release, Yes, Well that's the thing.
Like after a while, my body just gives out. Try
to really listen to my body. And so if my
body conks sound and is like you have to sleep,
I'm like I have to listen to it. And that's
something that I've been more accepting of as I'm getting older,
(26:52):
because and it kind of goes back to that acceptance piece.
And I didn't think I was going to talk about
acceptance that much.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Do I to keep before I let you go? My
last question for all guests, how will you cash your trillions? Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I forgot to think about it. What are people saying.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Because it's such a large number, we can really enact change?
Like this was this is? This is really soothing? I
feel so good now just listening to your voice. Right. So, like,
imagine if every mom had access to this kind of
talk therapy that is the power of the work that
moms and women do. We can enact that type of change.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yes, absolutely amazing. I'm gonna like that question is gonna
be sitting with me now and thinking a little bit differently.
It's like, what could that money do. The idea of
being seen and validated and acknowledged by a person is
so important. I think if it happens in the therapy
to contest, that's wonderful. And if you find someone, you
(27:55):
should be able to stay with them and you should
be able to see them. So I would say like
one hundred percent coverage of mental health benefits so that
individuals can see whoever they want as a therapist and
have that paid for and not have to worry about
whether or not they're going to get it covered or
what portion of it is going to be covered. In
certain fields, their coverage just doesn't cover enough and they
(28:21):
have to make sacrifices in terms of you know, I'm
going to do therapy every other week or once a
month or at a frequency that you can be helpful
on some level, but maybe not be the complete dosage.
So it's the idea of being able to see whoever
you want, whoever resonates with you on various levels, whether
(28:42):
it's like the sound of someone's voice or their theoretical orientation.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Thanks for tuning in this season and for all your emails, reviews,
and feedback. They really help shape the content and theme
of each episode. Please continue sharing. I like to ask
my guests how they'll cash their trillions, because one, it
quantifies our unpaid work, so we immediately translate this nebulous
(29:14):
large number into the time and wages we personally can
invoice and bill for and spend, which I think really
transforms the way we think about all the unpaid work
we perform to sustain our families and keep the US
economy churning. And two think about it on a larger scale.
(29:38):
Japan is the largest holder of US debt with the
one point one trillion dollar portfolio of US Treasury holdings,
so add a conservative estimate of one point five trillion dollars.
American women and mom's unpaid work make us the largest
creditor to our nation. That's our call power. So moms,
(30:04):
how will you cash Your Trillions. This episode was produced
by me and sound edited by schen Cashing Our Trillions
is part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.
If you have a story to share, please email us
at Cashingurtrillions at gmail dot com. Make sure you subscribe
(30:28):
to the show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
listen to podcasts, and if you liked what you heard,
please take a moment to rate and review it. It
would really mean so much to me. Thank you for listening.
Hi, their family. Welcome back to Cashing our Trillions. I'm
your host, Yvonne So I'm a full time state home
mom of three boys, and this podcast is a space
to value the trillion dollar economy of unpaid labor shouldered
by moms. As we've addressed all season long, it's not
(00:28):
just the unpaid labor of childcare, caring for a home,
and raising a family that's problematic a lot of the times.
It's all the additional baggage shouldered largely by moms that
weighs on our minds and adds to our time poverty.
(00:52):
Noting that nearly every other advanced country makes greater public
investments and care than the United States, president by and
pass an executive order in April of this year to
increase access to high quality care and support caregivers. In
this executive order, our President acknowledged that without adequate resources,
(01:14):
family caregiving can affect caregiver's own physical and emotional health
and well being, and contribute to financial strain. These negative
consequences are felt most acutely by women, who make up
nearly two thirds of family caregivers and drop out of
the workforce at a rate three times higher than men. Today,
(01:38):
I speak with doctor Debick Charcarbarti, who will address mom's
emotional health, sharing her own story of being a single
mom by choice, and introducing us to dialectical behavior therapy
or DBT, a type of psychotherapy that combines emotion regulation
with concepts of distress, tolerance, acceptance, and mindful awareness. With
(02:01):
specialized training and addiction and trauma, Depugee offers concrete tools
to help clients manage their emotions, finding alternative ways to
self soothe and cope with overwhelming situations. She forms a
treatment plan in collaboration with her clients, identifying goals upfront
and leveraging existing strengths to tap into their inner resilience.
(02:25):
Absolutely perfect for stressed out moms right. This is a
unique episode because Depukeye is also a dear friend of
mine and someone who's been in my life for more
than twenty years. We, along with our fellow girlfriends Sheila
and Sylvia, met straight out of college in the bear
Stearns Investment Banking program and have navigated life together ever since.
(02:49):
Once you hear the both of us, it will become immediately evident.
Debukee is a calm and measured girlfriend in our relationship.
We hope that our history and our ability to be
open with each other will help in this more difficult
conversation about mom's mental health. Talk therapy may not immediately
solve the problems of our immense mental load, but after
(03:10):
this conversation, you may be more open to therapy being
a safe space to work on coping mechanisms and to
create a blueprint that guides you on a path forward,
which includes understanding, radical acceptance and a kick ass sells
soothing kids. The theme that came out in every single
(03:39):
episode that I had is there's always that mental health
element of the problem, right It's like, oh, we were
having a hard time finding childcare, we don't have proper
maternity leave, and that does weigh on us as moms.
And then like all of this is within our social
construct right now, which seems so dire. So what are
(04:03):
things that moms can do? How do we manage all
that in our head?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
On an individual like personal level, I try to think about, like,
you know, what are the messages that I'm getting and
internalizing about who I should be as a mother and
as a person.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Well, that's hard. All the messages tell me I have
to be everything exactly all at once, right, Yes, I
have to have a full time job, I have to
bring in money, I have to take care of my kids,
have to make sure they're fed. I have to make
sure they're good students, get in to school on time,
get them to all their dental appointments exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah. Yeah, So there's this theme of the all sacrificing
mother who gives up her own needs, whose focus is
on the other, on her children, on people around her,
on her society, on her community, and that comes first.
And you know, from a cultural perspective, I've definitely seen
it house parties when I was younger, Like, you know,
(05:01):
the woman would eat last, the kids might get fed first,
and then in a very traditional heterosexual situation, like the
dads would eat next and then the moms. Those are
like subtle messages that get internalized, like I can't put
my needs first. I have to make sure I do
everything that I can to make sure my daughter is
(05:23):
ready and then I can like start eating. But like
I have to take care of all of this other
stuff before I get to myself and get to my
own self care or get to my own sense of
decompression and just like release and calm. I notice, if
I don't take care of myself, then I'm going to
be less patient. Then I'm less present, I'm more tired,
(05:46):
I'm more exhausted.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So relatable, right, Debbie just mentioned her South Asian culture
and growing up going to house parties where the women
would put the needs of everyone else before their own. Offline,
Debikian and I have also spoken about this idea the
self sacrificing mother, who is also reflected and reinforced in
Hindu religion with Durga or the mother goddess who is
(06:10):
strong but self sacrificing as the model of womanhood. We
see plenty of these examples in our everyday lives, and
the impact of unrealistic expectations and internalizing these ideals that
are also sometimes deeply ingrained in our culture can definitely
lead to anxiety, depression, and burnout. Depikey continues by talking
(06:33):
about high dialectical behavior therapy or DBT can be used
as a tool to apply mindfulness and learn coping mechanisms
to help us tackle the stressing situations, including daily mothering.
Can you talk about DBT and how it's useful as
a therapy tool?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So, DBT is dialectical behavioral therapy. It was initially designed
for individuals who had trouble regulating their motions and we're
engaging in suicidal or pair of suicidal behaviors or self
harm behaviors. Since then, DBT has been applied across the
board in a wide variety of settings, so you see
DBT in schools and corporations. In addition to the therapeutic context,
(07:19):
within DBT, there's four modules. There's a distressed tolerance module,
so basically, when I go from zero to hundred, how
can I tolerate being at level hundred and act in
ways that are in line with who I want to
be versus falling back into behaviors that might be destructive
or maladaptive. There's emotion regulation, how do I recognize what
I'm feeling, identify it, and then dial it up or
(07:41):
dial it down depending on the situation. There's also interpersonal effectiveness,
which is engaging with another individual, like how do I
manage relationships? How do I have respect for myself, the
other person and the relationship itself and different tools to
help us do that. And underpinning all of this is
(08:02):
an entire module on mindfulness. How does mindfulness itself help
us regulate our emotions? How does it help us tolerate
these distressing situations, and how does it help us engage
in relationships and the way that we want to engage
in them?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So in that moment, like, what are some exercises moms
can do to kind of catch yourself, to center it
on yourself and to release.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, yeah, on myself? What I do and what I
try to help patients with, what's in my mind and
what's in my body? So what are the things that
I'm telling myself that I should be doing? And catching
that word should? And where am I feeling it in
my body? Like how am I feeling it?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Like?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Where in my body am I feeling it? How is
it moving around and trying to notice? Like Okay, am
I saying things like I don't deserve this or I
don't deserve to eat until I do X, Y and
Z catching that thought? Wait a second, is that thought
serving me? Is that thought in line with the kind
of mother I want to be and the kind of
mother I want to model for my daughter? Like do
(09:07):
I want to teach her those same things that I
think I've internalized from society and not just and I
wouldn't even say family culture. I think it's like the
broader culture as you were saying, like you know, you
have to be everything at the sacrifice of yourself. What
message do I want her to internalize based on what
she's seeing. I'm like, no, I do deserve to eat.
(09:27):
I'm going to sit down and eat with her, or
maybe I'll eat first. If I'm really really hu hungry,
I'll eat first. When I think about my body, where
do I feel my tension? I feel it in my shoulders.
If I notice that tension, how can I help myself
in that moment? Years ago, I learned about deep breathing,
and I'm like, this is so calming. So like, you know,
there's different breathing exercises that I personally do. Whether it's
(09:51):
like box breathing where you breathe in for account of four,
hold for account of four, and then release for account
of four. That sometimes is helpful for me.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Isn't that takes practice? Though? I try to do that,
and then it like messes up my breathing and I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Then that one may not be the idea one, and
it's oh okay, So I think it does take practice.
But then two there are other versions, like I breathe
in for a kind of like you know seven, hold
maybe for a kind of two, and then release for
a kind of eight or something. I don't even count.
Sometimes I just breathe in until I.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Just breathe deeper than you normally do exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, yeah, so like until my lungs fill up and
like imagine my everything like releasing my body. I do that.
I also got a weighted blanket that I put around
my shoulder. So when I noticed myself feeling like especially tense,
and it's like, how do I know that? I feel it,
you know, in my shoulders, I feel in the back
of my neck. I feel it in the back of
my head often, so like you know, even reminding myself,
(10:54):
just drop your shoulders, Just drop your shoulders. That helps.
This weighted blanket that I put around like a shawl.
I think he loves that too. I put that on me,
and then sometimes also to help her regulate if needed,
I put the way to blanket on her and I
give her a massage using it. Okay, so that is
more like coregulation. So like if you notice that your
(11:16):
kid is getting like completely bonkers or crazy.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
But that's a good point because like how we show
up as moms and all the stress that we internalize
also sometimes is reflected on them, So we have to
be cognizant of managing ourselves as well.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Another part of DBT is like, you know, we impact
our environment and our environment impacts us. So keeping that
in mind also as a mom is like what pressure
is am I putting on myself? Like what am I
putting on myself right now? Influencing both me and the
people around me? And then trying to take a step
back and be like, okay, so what is important to me?
(11:58):
Like what kind of mom do I want to be?
What kind of daughter, what kind of sister, what kind
of friend? And how can I shift in that direction?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Is this something that you do all throughout the day
or is this like for somebody new to DBT, Like
is this something I do at the end of the day,
like weekly, monthly, quarterly, I.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Would qlutterly, I would probably recommend doing it once a day,
like you know, coming with that once a day, checking
in with like okay, so how am I feeling, Like
what's happening for me? What are some of the thoughts
that I'm having? What am I noticing in my body.
How can I reflect on the day and just giving
(12:40):
yourself that little bit of time just for yourself to
check in with yourself and be like, Okay, what's happening
and how am I sitting with myself? How am I
relating with myself? And I wouldn't spend a lot of time.
I would just spend like maybe five minutes, five minutes
like doing that check in process, because I think it's
that check in process that helps us be more present
(13:03):
and more mindful. Like that. The word mindful is I
think everywhere. Yeah, And the idea of being mindful is like, yeah,
noticing what's coming up for the individual in this moment.
What am I thinking? What am I feeling? Where do
I notice my mind going? Am I checking out? Am
I tuning out? Can I bring myself back? So it's
the practice I think of being in tune with the
(13:26):
moment as it is and trying to cultivate acceptance around it,
trying to cultivate like self compassion.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's great. Oh the moms that come to you, like
what are their major issues? Like what do they want
to work through?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Trying to have a sense of balance is coming through.
I have a mom who struggles with her own anger.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, I feel all those things, So how do we
work through that? I feel like those are basic building
blocks of being a mom, especially for me I have
more kids like that. Of course, I maintain a level
of anger all throughout the tell help me manage that.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
It's yeah, so it's like, how so if the first
step is like how do I relate to these emotions?
Like how do I relate to my anger? And often
that's influenced by what we might have been through in
the past. Okay, so what are my messages? Like what
do I internalize around these different emotions? And then how
can I notice how it shows up? But you know,
(14:28):
it's part of what makes us human and everybody feels it.
We feel it to different degrees at different times. Different
things activate us and trigger us, and we express it differently.
And I think all of those things are influenced by
both are present and are past. And it's trying to
understand like, okay, so how is this manifesting for me?
(14:49):
And how do I allow myself to express this and
feel well? Wanet allow myself to feel it and then
to express it in a way that feels healthy. You
know what would look like a healthy way of expressing
those emotions. You can't get rid of emotions, you can't
get rid of the anger. I think some people when
they feel certain strong emotions that are tied to a
(15:11):
negative or unpleasant experience, it's like, I shouldn't feel this.
I shouldn't feel anxiety, I shouldn't feel this anger, I
shouldn't feel the sadness. Part of mindfulness is practicing it.
There's so many different ways of practicing it. But I
love the self soothing thing because it's about it's really
about taking care of yourself. And I think as a mom,
(15:31):
we're programmed to take care of others. So taking that
moment to take care of yourself in whichever ways, is
going to resonate with you.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You're listening to cashing our trillions and what do you
think moms would benefit the most from?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, I was thinking about that. Within distress tolerance, there's
different ways of tolerating distress, and so we can put
up links to like DBT, so there's like the accept skills,
improve skills, and self soothing things. I might focus on
self soothing. If you're feeling distressed, for feeling emotionally raw,
(16:05):
how can you soothe yourself using your senses, like what's
beautiful to the eye, what's something that you listen to?
And you know, most people probably do this organically on
some level anyway. It's like, you know, there might be
music that you gravitate to if you're feeling a certain way.
Some people love sense and aroma. So it's like doing
these things in a very conscious way. It's like, I'm
(16:27):
noticing that I'm feeling down. How can I like soothe
myself and nurture my own self? How can I bring
comfort to my own self? I think that is once
so self soothing, engaging with our senses, what's pleasing to
the eye, listening, sound, touch, taste, and smell. In the
groups that I've done before, and this is part of DBT,
(16:49):
it's like creating a self soothing kit, so basically creating
a little box of stuff that is just for you
that you enjoy, that you can pull out anytime. Hopefully
when you're doing this practice, it's engaging with this idea
of like, yeah, self compassion, take care of yourself, allow
yourself to feel that comfort, and what are ways that
you can do it? And I think as moms is
to be mindful of like all those things that impact
(17:13):
how we feel right now, and if there is a
way to extend that self compassion. It's like, yeah, I
had a totally busy morning. I was running around. I
didn't have a chance to have breakfast or lunch, and
so now I'm feeling like really really like enraged. Okay,
that makes sense. You know I didn't have a chance
to eat before, and so instead of I think my
(17:36):
tendency sometimes was to be self blaming. It's like, oh,
why didn't I do that? Why didn't I, like, you know,
plan better? Why didn't I cope ahead? Why didn't I
use my own skills?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
While you're talking, I'm like, can you just crawl into
my mind and just navigate my brain?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Thank you? I wish I had a little person right
when I'm going to like self blame or self criticism,
pivot like, Okay, I notice that feeling that came up
and be like, okay, so why why else might I
be feeling all your inner debatey? Thank you. I think
(18:17):
as moms were expected to give so much of ourselves
and to give to others, and that is wonderful in
many ways. But I think the reminder might be you know,
give to yourself and take care of yourself, alle your
self comfort. Whichever way it looks like, you know, whether
it's like something like a self soothing kid, or it's
like I'm.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Gonna make my kids make myself soothing kid.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh that's a great get three of them.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I know. I was like, you know what, that would
be so good if the boys made it.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yes, what do you think, mom? Yes, that's awesome. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You can tie that into some of the mindfulness techniques
that you mentioned earlier as well.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Absolutely, it's like, yeah, you know, how do you eat
a piece of chocolate mindfully?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Shove my shove it in my face cookie monster style.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Tendency to do that. My daughter loves cookie monster. But
if we so, it's the process of slowing down. So
mindfully eating a piece of chocolate is like slowing down
that process and savoring like almost every single second, and
the experience of having that piece of chocolate can be
(19:38):
incredibly satisfying and stopping at one which is hard. I mean,
I do not talk.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I'm so fun. I feel like talking to you like
this is such a reflection of our friendship too, Like
you are like the calm zen mindful one, and I'm like,
where do we get to this point? Where's my chocolate?
Where's my gratification? How many times I have to do
this before I feel good? You know?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I think those thoughts too. I mean I definitely have them.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And let's just rewind a little bit. So let's just
talk about your life as a single mom by choice
raising your daughter and what brought you to therapy work.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I can't believe you've been friends for like twenty two years. Yeah,
you know, two thousand and one when we started bare.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Don't date Us debicy Just kidding, Oh, I know that's true.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I mean, like, you know, nine to eleven happened, and
I was reading a lot of like human rights stuff,
and I was looking at the work that I was doing.
This can absolutely make sense for someone and it's influencing
the world in a certain way. But I want to
live my life in a very different way than I
applied to grad school and went towards clinical psychology, and
(20:52):
that's where I was first introduced to dialectical behavioral therapy
being able to help people shift their lives in amazing ways.
Single mom by choice that was a more difficult decision culturally.
There was an expectation of very traditional, very like you
get married, then you have kids, and then you know,
so on. I was married at one point and we
(21:14):
were not on the same page in terms of how
we were growing. Started our relationship in our early twenties,
and you know, the relationship ended in our mid thirties,
and by that point we're completely different people. What we
wanted out of life were not aligned. So that relationship
needed to end and did, and then I started my
(21:36):
path to be a single mom by choice. That path
took a couple of years. It was super intense.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, I remember that time.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, yeah, and all.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
The different rounds of IBF.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yes, the rounds, all those medications, those injections, and you know,
I can't even believe that I went through all of
that stuff and did all of that. I was like
working like all the time to try to make up
enough money to be able to pay for IVF.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Back then, it was all out of pocket too, right,
It wasn't covered.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
It was mostly my medications actually were covered. Okay, Yeah,
so that helped quite a bit. I lived on a
fourth floor walk up, didn't have cable, didn't have a TV.
I don't think I turned on gas.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Just to pay for all the medication.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Well, just like you know, just to bring down costs.
I lived in a very frugal way.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You made mindful decisions to save money.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, and it was helpful because then I was able
to do as many rounds as I needed. And so
grateful that I have my daughter now and she's four
and a half. And I'm also really grateful that I
have the support of my family and like wonderful friends,
my parents are enormously helpful. I don't think I'd be
able to do this without them. I mean just in
(22:54):
terms of the support and just being able to get
through the day. Sometimes my parents went to India for
a couple of a couple of weeks and I felt
what it was like to be a true single parent,
and it was incredibly, incredibly exhausting, incredibly stressful, far more
than what I experience on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And you're talking more about the emotional support here, because
you're like, that's not even considering the financial aspects of
having to raise you and your daughter yourself. This is
just having your parents there, like as your village and
your people who help you emotionally get through the day.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yea emotionally, but things like you know, food sometimes like
you know, meals and babysitting, Like I know, childcare is
so so expensive, and I think quality childcare is hard
to find. I just have the utmost trust with my parents.
My mind is much more at ease knowing that my
(23:55):
parents are with her, like right now, Yeah, while we
can talk, I should be hanging around here.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Study after study shows that this lack of affordable and
reliable childcare is the number one factor keeping US moms
out of the workforce. It's also important to note that
this national childcare crisis disproportionately affects single moms, who can
spend up to thirty percent of their salary on childcare costs.
(24:27):
To begin, I discussed some of the other small factors
those of us in partnered relationships take for granted, but
add to the mental toll of single parenting and how
she personally copes with this added pressure of pulling double duty,
even choosing a school that's all on you, so little
life decisions for your family is all the burden is
(24:51):
on you. So I never even really thought about that
before too, because I always have a sounding board with Jay,
but with you, there's added pressure because if you don't
get it right, it's just me.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, I bounce off ideas with my parents and you know,
my sister from time to time, but ultimately that final
decision is me, and that can be a lot Like
that's sometimes like you know, what if I make the
wrong decision or choose the wrong path for whatever reason,
that sometimes weighs on me quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And then so how do you cope with that?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's a really good question. I do a lot of DBT,
and yeah, I use the skills that I tell my
patients to you. There's one that's also based on like
Zen Buddhism called radical acceptance, and like, you know, one
of the other tenets of like DBT is like most
people are doing the best that they can in any
given moment based on their ability, skills, resources, everything that
(25:48):
they have. And so I have to remind myself that
whatever decision I'm making at any given time, I know
I'm trying my best and it's based on the information
that I have at this moment. I have to accept
that that that that's all I can do. You can
be proactive. I try to bring that into my own
life as much as I can and recognize that, yeah,
there's there's limited information.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
But does that make you like fall down a deeper
rabbit hole searching for information or does that do you
really come to this moment you're like, Okay, I release
to the universe.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I often release to the universe, right.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I feel like that's your personality too, Like that's how
we've always known each other, because like for me, I
would be like, but I can find more information.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
It's like and you're like, release, Yes, Well that's the thing.
Like after a while, my body just gives out. Try
to really listen to my body. And so if my
body conks sound and is like you have to sleep,
I'm like I have to listen to it. And that's
something that I've been more accepting of as I'm getting older,
(26:52):
because and it kind of goes back to that acceptance piece.
And I didn't think I was going to talk about
acceptance that much.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Do I to keep before I let you go? My
last question for all guests, how will you cash your trillions? Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I forgot to think about it. What are people saying.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Because it's such a large number, we can really enact change?
Like this was this is? This is really soothing? I
feel so good now just listening to your voice. Right. So, like,
imagine if every mom had access to this kind of
talk therapy that is the power of the work that
moms and women do. We can enact that type of change.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yes, absolutely amazing. I'm gonna like that question is gonna
be sitting with me now and thinking a little bit differently.
It's like, what could that money do. The idea of
being seen and validated and acknowledged by a person is
so important. I think if it happens in the therapy
to contest, that's wonderful. And if you find someone, you
(27:55):
should be able to stay with them and you should
be able to see them. So I would say like
one hundred percent coverage of mental health benefits so that
individuals can see whoever they want as a therapist and
have that paid for and not have to worry about
whether or not they're going to get it covered or
what portion of it is going to be covered. In
certain fields, their coverage just doesn't cover enough and they
(28:21):
have to make sacrifices in terms of you know, I'm
going to do therapy every other week or once a
month or at a frequency that you can be helpful
on some level, but maybe not be the complete dosage.
So it's the idea of being able to see whoever
you want, whoever resonates with you on various levels, whether
(28:42):
it's like the sound of someone's voice or their theoretical orientation.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Thanks for tuning in this season and for all your emails, reviews,
and feedback. They really help shape the content and theme
of each episode. Please continue sharing. I like to ask
my guests how they'll cash their trillions, because one, it
quantifies our unpaid work, so we immediately translate this nebulous
(29:14):
large number into the time and wages we personally can
invoice and bill for and spend, which I think really
transforms the way we think about all the unpaid work
we perform to sustain our families and keep the US
economy churning. And two think about it on a larger scale.
(29:38):
Japan is the largest holder of US debt with the
one point one trillion dollar portfolio of US Treasury holdings,
so add a conservative estimate of one point five trillion dollars.
American women and mom's unpaid work make us the largest
creditor to our nation. That's our call power. So moms,
(30:04):
how will you cash Your Trillions. This episode was produced
by me and sound edited by schen Cashing Our Trillions
is part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network and iHeartRadio.
If you have a story to share, please email us
at Cashingurtrillions at gmail dot com. Make sure you subscribe
(30:28):
to the show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
listen to podcasts, and if you liked what you heard,
please take a moment to rate and review it. It
would really mean so much to me. Thank you for listening.
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