Jay "Pablo Michaels" Manuel

I was rooting for you!! We were ALL rooting for you!!! This week we read Jay Manuel's "novel"/self-insertion fan fiction about what it was like to work on America’s Next Top Model in "The Wig, the Bitch and the Meltdown." We dive into this burn book and discuss the 2000’s hot spots Tao and Buddakan (and why Jay chose to put them in a novel that takes place in 2020), doing Tyra dirty, Miss J's d*ck pics, why Janice Dickinson is our favorite, and that scene where Jay gets to pretend that Nigel Barker wanted him carnally. Move over Rachel Cusk, there’s a new queen of auto-fiction in town!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Celebrity Book Club. Will Stephen and Lily please step forward.
Two beautiful girls stand before me, but only one of
you will continue on in the hopes of becoming America's

(00:23):
next top model in the winner of a one hundred
thousand dollars contract with iHeartRadio on the Outspoken Network. Lily,
when you came into this competition, no one thought you
could hack it. You were a mess, You were slurring
your speech, you seemed tired. One of the judges thought

(00:46):
you were high. You could barely put one foot in
front of the other, and you didn't even know how
to tie your shoes. But week after week you've improved
or what this competition is all about. You've showed grit, determination,
and a chameleon like quality to make us laugh in

(01:09):
various different disguises, like your Charlie Chaplin photo shoot, which
blew our socks off. But there's one thing you still
don't have, and that's good teeth. And your refusal to
get adult braces suggests to the judges that maybe you

(01:32):
don't have what it takes to go far in the
real world of modeling.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Tyra, thank you so much for this chance. Today I
double knotted my shoelaces in Midtown Manhattan, and I was
thinking I couldn't have done this six weeks ago. I'm
hearing so many voices in my head, and sometimes I'm
told by the girls or Miss Jay that I shouldn't
get braces because then I'll never get the contract with

(01:59):
Elle Lily.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
What I'm hearing is excuses. Thank you for saying your piece, Stephen.
You have everything Lily doesn't, but she has everything you need.
You came into this competition brilliant, a strong face, a

(02:23):
severe jawline, wide hips. Every week. The judges have been
wowed by your consistency. But there's one thing you don't have,
and that's a normal hairline. We've tried to get you
to wear wigs and you refuse. So why is your

(02:47):
inability to change so prominent? And why are you refusing
to do what you need to do to make it
in this business?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Tyra, don't get it. When I was a little boy
on the school yard, a girl came up to me
and she pulled my hair and she pulled a patch out,
and she said, you'll never make it in this town ever,
And that day I promised myself I would make it. Bald,
I don't care what you say, Taira. I'm gonna make

(03:20):
it bald.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Watch me. The judges have made our decision. America's next
top Model is Lily.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Thank you so much. I'll do whatever. I'll take out
my people, I'll get danchers.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Remember this moment. You earned it. This is your moment hip.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Obecca's that next top model. Oh my god, Oh my god, Stephen,
you're gonna get a contract for all. I'm sure cut.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends.
You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and you've got books
and a bottle of wine to kill.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
I'm shook. It's memoir, it's martinis.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Celebrity Poop Club. Read it while it's hot.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Celebrity poop Club, tell your secrets.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
We won't talk celebrity books.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
No boys are a loud celet book, say it loud
and pound. Celebrity book Club.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Buzz me in. I brought the queer voe.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Hey, my friend, Merry holiday season? Am I right?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Oh my god? Sorry, put down the eggnog. Wait. I
have to tell you about this completely insane I heard
on lay it on me radio that was just like, ugh,
is your aunt over the holidays? Like on your nerves?
Like and then it's like an impression of an aunt
and they're like, oh god, Susie has had so much

(05:07):
eggnog and she's like, so, who are you dating? And
then like the voiceover is like, want to escape from
like this dumbass aunt who keeps like asking you, like
why you're so single? Come to Boston. It was an
ad for Boston, an ad for Boston, and Boston is
the place where you escape aunts, which is just so

(05:27):
crazy because boss is aunt. It's like it is a
city of aunts.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's so insane.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
And it was like come like ice skate on the
frog pond, like shop on Newberry Boston.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
And like the idea is that like instead of like
booking travel to go spend the holidays with your family,
you would book like a solo trip.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Single strip to Boston on Christmas Day.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Boston's a great place, you know, as a woman traveling alone,
safety is one of my top concerns, and Boston is
such a safe place I mean for women to be.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
It would be such a good place if you were
like a single lawyer to take the Amtrak and be like,
you know what, I'm going to get a room just
for myself on Boxing Day, you know, at the Copley Hotel.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
It's so funny because I met my boyfriend when he
went to Boston alone over Thanksgiving, see, and you're.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
A single woman. He literally was like getting way to
the big city of Boston.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
And you were being like he was doing major and
you were being like local Boston tree keeping girl or whatever.
So yeah, honestly, go to Boston, like whether it's for
the holidays or like kind of that.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
After that week between.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
A KA Global Purgatory.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Boston dot com, check it out, hit us up for Rex.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
There's so many things happening in Boston now.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
There really are. I mean, it is beautiful around the holidays, Like,
let's just be real, if it's pray for snow. I
remember as a kid hoping for snow so I could
see Santa's little footsteps on my porch of my condo
was like so small, I had like a little deck.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
You didn't think he was doing chimney stuff.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well we didn't have a chimney, so I was like, well,
of course for condos and lands on your very small
porch and slide the sliding door moves aside the kind
of copper planter and an African mask obviously, and then
one year there were like little kind of footprints and

(07:31):
I was like, uh, proof, dear done.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh like like some wildlife I've been there, and you're
like gotta be the brain bear or my parents like
imprinted it and they should have kind of like jostled
the mask on the walls.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Things are going crazy there, like, oh.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Gosh, my parents was the thing where they like they
left the like you know, two bites in the cookie
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Classic did you guys do carets too?

Speaker 1 (08:00):
I do remember doing carrots at one point. Real was
that like a trend in Boston and like ninety seven
for us all to be.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Trends in nineteen No, the carrots are for the reindeer.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Oh that's what it was.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
It's not like slim down Santa and so like slim fast.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Right now now I'm remember and it was like nilla
wafers and carrots and like glass of milk.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
But I do love that instead of a glass of milk,
it's a glass of slim fast for Santa. Oh. In
these days, I'm sure Santa is having a collagen Smoothie arowon.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Santa Snatched Mama. Okay, she's looking good, making a new
notch in that belt.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Hmmm, Ozam to the GOLs.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Missus Claus is just like wait, I like you fat.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, And it's like, oh, you're leaving me behind.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
No, he's like more creating.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
She's right, she's alop and he's so like protein pro Yeah,
that's like making gains and like lifting so many like
wooden toys and like he's like, oh, I'm only eating
I guess he wouldn't eat venison, because that's means he
would be eating.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I'm reindeer. Some of them are for play and some
of them are for work, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Work and play? Yeah, work hard, play harder, eat venison.
You can't play more with your reindeer speak speaking of
honestly looking snatched and also traditions changing. Yes, today we're
doing a book that I mean, we've done obviously fiction before.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
This is maybe the most adult fiction we've done, although
that's really debatable. It feels like it's a children's book.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
We've done children's but when we did Millie Bobby Brown's
historical novel, have we done a self published Actually it
was by word I think that's a site where you
do self publish, not.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
To throw stove, literally like blog spot.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think word you dot com.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
It's Wordy with two ease. Yeah. Yeah, it's giving him
self kind of thought. He had a meeting with like
the Wordy exact and they were like.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
No, you're gonna be really taking care of this independent publisher.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm actually surprised that this wouldn't have gotten at least
like some imprint of Harper to come on, it's literally famous.
It's a tell all right.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Some kind of like pop culture imprint Samon Schuster, Harper.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Random Gallery Books, Hello anyone. Yeah, so it's basically it
is a tell all. It is fiction, but it's very
like the names have insightly changed and it is extremely
inspired by this person's real life experience.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Suddenly thinly veiled novel. And when I say the names
have been changed.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
They've barely been changed.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Of course, we are talking about.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
You know him as mister J. Native director of America
Sex Top Model Mister J.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Is full name J.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Men Uel and his book. This is the title of
the book and it's.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
In top Model font.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
The Wig, the Bitch and the meltdown, the wig the bitch,
and the meltdown sorry, and the meltwn like lion the
witch in the world.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
I guess I got excited. Okay for one second, you're
actually being so Keisha right now.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
So this book is all about a young, sexy, biracial
adoptee named Pablo Michaels who lives in a tiny apartment
in Midtown and gets whisked away at Mercedes Benz Fashion
Week whist Away.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
So Pablo works as a Michael Course fashion producer and
guts whist away by supermodel Keisha Cash, known for her
modeling in a little catalog called Veronica's Privates.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
And he keeps just being like, yeah, she was thirty
two and she was a groundbreaking black model in the
nineties and she is a little bit bigger now and
it's just like every other page and being like.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
She was downing ribs, she does rips. So this book
is it's madness, how thinly veiled it is.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
What's crazy about this book, though, is it takes place
in twenty twenty basically, and America sexub model exists in
this universe.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
That was the craziest reveal where basically like when Keisha
Cash pitches to Pablo that they should have a show
called Model Muse.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
He's like, Babe, that's just an America sext some model. She's like, no,
this time it's going to be different.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's going to be totally different. And in this kind
of crazy universe, it's revealed that Pablo has a mentor
and his mentor is j Manuel.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Like later book, it just gets so mad and there's
all these seeds where it's like him being like, ugh,
j Manuel was like so sexy. He was the hottest mentor.
Like I love my mentor.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Let's break down. I feel like, break down the characters
and what their names are, just.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
To Yeah, there's there's a Janice Dickinson known as Sasha,
Sasha Berenson, Jane Sickens and Sasha Baronson, and Sasha Benson
is always drunk because they have a bottle of Chardonnay
before every shooting that it's like falling asleep and they're
pumping adderall on her.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
So they're always like crushing up addall into diet coke
and giving it to her.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Listen, this book is funny and I pore through it.
It does feel like a book written for twelve year
olds basically, but like it also reads an adult novel.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
It reads like an amazing crazy fan fiction you stumble
upon and you're like, oh my god, this is hilarious.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, it's like it is fan fiction. It's basically fan fiction.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
So Sasha Benson at the top, I'm a little mad
he doesn't give honestly, the alcoholic Sasha I felt enough.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah, she needed more sassy fun lines.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
He just makes her like an alcoholic who always has
like a pulland spring bottle full of lot.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
He CA's probably reflected with the fact that j Manuel
and Jenna Sickinson maybe just didn't interact that much. Yeah,
because she was like there for judging and he was
obviously like hanging out.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
With miss Miss Things.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
So Miss Thing is the runway coach Jay Alexander, Miss
Jay and Miss Thing and him have this like rivalry
over the course of the show and ups and downs.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
You know, it starts out and Pablo is actually very
mean about Miss Thing and it is always like, uh,
like Miss Thing is like ugly and Miss Thing just
like it's all about herself and is always like making
quips and like wanting the camera towards her. And then
towards the middle of the book is like mad at
the antm editors for like, oh sorry, the model muse

(14:35):
editors for cutting out all of Miss things amazing lines.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, which she does kind of like suggest is more
tyra akakish cash just being incredibly narcissistic and wanting to
make herself the start of the show and like reduce
everyone else's personality and make sure that they're not like
to now the focus.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Because she's the focus. And then there is Mason Ah,
a British.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Photographer British photographer but a fashionhtographer who's very sexy but
very naughty.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
And in this book is a closeted bisexual. Yeah. Clearly
I think mister Jay is fantasy.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Thank you for saying.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Okay, I think a lot of this book I think
is true.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
You can tell what's fan and you can tell and
what's the nonfiction and we'll get into that. So I
love when Miss Thing is introduced again, who is a
run cipher for Miss j Alexander Pablo knew instantly why
Miss Thing was chosen controversy. He was known for his

(15:39):
Twitter account profile and then he like italicizes what the
profile is for all my lgbt Q X y Z,
rainbow colored friends of the alphabet. I am not bisexual, transsexual,
or a transvestite. I'm a gay man who parades around
a women's cature to confuse white straight America. He was
an appropriate, flamboyant, wicked, witty, and had been a runway

(16:01):
coach since the dawn of time. He was going to
be a handful also just calling him old.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
No, it'd be like since the dawn of so.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Older than dirt. She's like, and he's not a woke activist, okay,
And that's getting America ruffled.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Because it's twenty twenty two and everyone's woke.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
This is the part of the book where it's just
every time he's like trying to make it betweeny twenty
two and not two thousand and nine, it's a little
bit like why did we.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Why did we do this? Because then all the references
are just like Pablo was so mad that he didn't
get to go to the after party at tow and
Keisha made I made him come back with her to
her loft at three sixty five broom and have Hoggin
DAWs and Shuman like from Joe's Shang.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I'm just like so it is two thousand and nine,
We're going to too, We're going to tell.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
And then it's finally when Pablo gets a chance to
go to a rap party after season one of Model
Muse they go to Budicuin.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
No, it's insane, Buddha Kan like what. But I guess
he wouldn't have been able to insert himself as a
character in the book if.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
It was, because he has to make it and met
and make himself like a young, like impressionable Pablo, but
also show to the world through this fan fiction that
he's actually so wise and it's fiction. And then the
last person that you may not think about but you've
seen on the credits of Top Model is ken Mock,

(17:27):
who is the executive producer of Top Model is Jovang.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Jouvong, who's portrayed as like this angry Asian male executive.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
He always calls him the Korean which the so sex
and the City and actually so two thousand and one
of him and two sold and his storyline is that
he's this just like balls out producer who produced a
cops show called Officers with a Z.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Did Ken Buck actually produce Cops?

Speaker 2 (17:56):
I looked up his IMDb and he did it, but
he did produce the amazing show The mussy Cat Doll
Search for the Next pussy Cat Doll, So he's actually
more like Top Model Pussycat Doll other reality shows, but
he didn't produce Cops.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah. So the one part of this novel that's not
just like basically a direct like retread of Jamie Manuel's
Top Model days and like him basically saying how much
of a huge bitch Tyra is every other page is
there's this like plotline I'm putting in quotes the word
plot line of like how Tyra's mom was arrested so
good on this Cops Stoke called officers with the z

(18:32):
that Joe Vong was producing and but it turns out
she was wrongfully arrested. And then she like sends her
own like ransom note with some blood to ty to exonerate.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Her and is basically begging Tyra to like use this
blood to like free her.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
But then it's later revealed that Tyra Iki Kisha Kash
wants her mother to stay rotting in jail.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
So she tells like one of the producers to throw
out the blood that would exonerate her. Oh and by
the way. Her mother's crime is that she was a
photographer at a morgue who stole jewels from the morgue.
I mean, give it up for fiction with that one.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Okay, this is so like the book I would write
if I were nine, but like Tyra's mom, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
What I mean, Like you're a genius nine year old
if you're being like, what's a job, what's a weird job?
But also being like pink panther jewels. And then there's
this whole scene where like Jay, I don't want to
jump ahead, but basically like j becomes Slash Pablo becomes

(19:55):
an investigative reporter and figures out Tisha Kasha's mom's ransom
note by YouTube discovering what anagrams are.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
But he does it. I mean again, the book is
kind of good, like, yeah, he kills aids the show Unreal,
which I love where he's trying to figure out this
ransom note because he knows if he can bring this
kind of victory to Kisha Cash aka Tyra, then she'll
like show up on set. Because one of the main

(20:28):
complexes of the book is that Tyra's this huge fucking
bitch who's like always four hours, like to set and
would rather be eating ribs at this time spare ribbery
than coming to set at Silver Cup Studios and Queens.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Or eating like the first time that Jay Sorry, Pablo
and Keisha become friends. Kisha invites Pablo over to her laws.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Okay, wait, this part's of the same. Okay, Keisha squilled
with delight. I love rags to riches stories. This calls
for ice cream and more champagne. She pointed to the
double door subsuro refrigerator, got up and opened the unit's doors.
Her fridge was bigger than the bathroom in his apartment. Hell,
it was bigger than his bedroom, and there was enough
room to sleep in it. There was nothing but champagne

(21:08):
and leftovers on one side and quarts of ice cream
on the other. My con marie consultant organized it by flavor.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Okay, so that's where he's putting the twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Of it all in. Yes, she was now behind and
picking over his shoulders. Pablo couldn't believe Keisha had a
certified tidying specialist organizing her frozen treats. It's also like
looking up the saurus ice cream frozen treats. It was.
It was a rainbow of flavors, coconut, blue moon, green tea, mint, lemon, cello, tangerine, raspberry,

(21:39):
red bean, cookie dough, chocolate, caramel, latte, coffee. Pablo never
seen so much ice cream in one person's freezer. What's
your poison? She giggled like a little girl pulling at
a tub of Hoganda's dull shade of leche and headed back, just.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Like this fat Like it's like we're on page ten here,
so it's be like, do know, tires a fat fucking
bitch is basically what he's trying to let you know. Oh,
and if I may just add in this part where
like she fires her assistant and is like, Pablo, you
need to get me Chinese food. But I'm such a
diva celebrity that I have no idea what like Chinese

(22:17):
I love? And this is like how like Jay places
us in modern times with deft deficiency. Pablo type the
word Chinese into his food delivery app and began to
read out the list of names of restaurants in the area.
Jade Garden, the Big Wong, Low Hung Cock, Omg, they're
next to each other. If somebody's name Joe's Shang Hai

(22:40):
on this.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Was like a weird, like racist, yeah, like joke that's
just kind of inserted into the writing of being like
low hung cock as the name of a Chinese restaurant,
and you're just like, this is random, this is random.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
No, this book is kind of wildly racist gansation people.
And it's like, I guess because Jay really hates Ken Mack. Yeah,
he's like, no, I'm actually going to go all the way.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Off the mock definitely is one of the other sort
of greater villains. Well, you know, so I was reading,
I did a little bit about said research and name reading.
Do you see like the Variety interview with him, Yeah,
it's kind of the only press that really is about
this book.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Basically what happened is clearly, you know, I think Jay
was overworked and felt like he didn't get his.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Flowers, because what he says in the book is that
he basically does every single shoot, comes up with the
concept for every single shoot, and then he's also doing
all this work, like behind the scene design work, made
the logo.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
And it was always like I'm in my hell's kitchen apartment.
I had to come up with all these like decks
to pitch, like you know, or you know, goes home
from Top Model and has to you know, come up
with the ideas for the photo shoots and the hair
and this and that. But then also we're shown that
Keisha cast doesn't really give him a good contract in
the beginning, and Pablo aka J will work for free.

(23:58):
So in life, Jay was like, I'm gonna quit at
season nine, and he did, and he did, and then
Tyro was so offended that they didn't speak.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
And then there's this quote where he was like, We've
sent a few emails and that's it.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
There was something that was like Tyro like isn't happy
about his book, but it was also kind of like
a fake quote. It's like, I don't even know if
this book reached Tyra.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I'm so confused why it didn't because I feel like
maybe it was just like the moment he decided Toself published.
It's like I feel like if it came out now,
it'll be better because I'm feeling like everyone's doing a
Top Model rewatch. Maybe it's just me and like, no,
no people.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
I know, like since it got on like Hulu, I
feel like people started like rewatching, Yes, But I do
feel like right now there's always like I think, just
like different gays that start watching it every year. Yes, sorry,
it's a cycle.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
It's literally a cycle, and like new generations are discovering
the magic, the aggon the ecstasy of Top Model.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
And you know, so of course, you know, when the
gen z started watching it, they got upset about a
few episodes like well, this actually didn't even happen on
Top Model, but the best episode ever of the tyber
Banks Show, and she pretended to be homeless.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Oh yeah, and yeah, and they've pulled the race swapping
episode they've pulled. Is there any others that they've pulled?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
And peop don't think so, but.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
But did they also do that on multiple cycles? Probably anyway,
But yeah, and then so they're all being like, oh,
it's so problematic and she's like so abusive to all
the girls, and of course, and like you know, what
we see in this book is that like it is
such like abusive working conditions. But of course that's what
produced such a.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Such amazing television. I mean, if we can just go
back Storry TBT. You called me, I think we were sixteen,
and you were like, this amazing show just came out
and you had just watched the first episode, and you
came over and we rewatched the first episode. Yes, and
I remember it's just like jaw on the floor. I
had never seen something like that. I mean was of
course we've done Jennis Dickinson's book, we've talked about Top Model,

(26:03):
but I mean the best reality show in the entire world.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
No, it was crazy. It was Manna from Heaven and.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Survivor had just come out, so it was like early contest.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, and there weren't all the other competition shows yet,
and like the girls were so real, so.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Real, and I think like Queer Eye probably had just
come out, but it was like you were really seeing
like fags on.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Evs, like you see mister and missus. J was like,
I mean, I'm sorry, Like Tyra exploded the world with
that show, and she absolutely changed the course of human culture.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Literally she changed humanity.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
And you know, like my friend Eric's I was saying this,
but like RuPaul.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Like took everything from Top.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Everything from Top Model.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I mean, let's think for your life, what about Like
remember first season, they have to like swim with sharks,
they have to dance with cheetahs, like they all have
to shave their heads like they have to put scales
on themselves, like they have to like fly off the
Empire's date thing, just like it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
So in this book, there's the scene where they all
have a different animal and then Adriana faints and Jay
suggest sorry, Pablo suggests that maybe Adriana's fainting was fake,
fucking fake, And of course, if we all remember back
to cycle one, Adrian faints in the like snake episode

(27:25):
or whatever, Yeah, and perhaps.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
That maybe was fake. And if you guys are an
up to date with quote unquote Adriana aka Adrian Curry,
she won Top Model, then she had a show where
she because she married Greg Brady. Then she left Hollywood
and became the most back to the land insane trumper.
Like follow her on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
She is so so hilarious and I find because she's
also always selling like a weird and a and she's
just an avon lady who like lives in Arizona and
Montana and has big strong suspects.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
And like the twitch stream all day and are so
video game because like her whole thing was that, like
she was from Juliet, Illinois and was like, fucking men,
I'm a nerd man, wait what did she say?

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Once?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I remember she was in the cab and she was like, man,
I just won't go want to go home and listen
to fucking heavy metal.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
And so like she and Elise were like friends because
like they were alt.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Even though Elise was like a kind of person, I
felt like, I guess I'm still gonna aligne with her
because like we're both Indie.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Because like when everyone else is like fully Christian.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Because then it came down to write Adrian and Shannon.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yes, and Alis was number three. But one of the
kind of main I would say revelations of this book
is that there's always what he calls a ringer, which
is a girl who's basically picked by Tyra to win
each cycle, like very early on, basically at the beginning
of each cycle, and that she is just pulling the
strings to make sure that that girl ends up in
the final two and then wins, and all the other

(28:54):
judge's critiques are just kind of like superfluous, and there's
basically someone who's supposed to win. And look back at
the seasons and I'm sorry, it makes so much sense,
like there are some seasons where we all know, wait,
you know that there was someone who like got kicked off.
I feel like it's often the girl I think who
like should have won gets kicked off.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Like four six yeah, and everyone's like wait what, But
she was like the most she was.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
The most high fashion. Her photos were the best, and
like somehow like she's gone.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
There was this whole thing that like, I feel like
top model like brought to just us the public. Tyra
was like you're either high fashion or not high fashion.
And there were so many girls that came in and
were catalog I know, and it gave us a language
to like define sorry, women's bodies.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
That we need that we does really need to talk
about women and your high.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Fashion in your catalog. And like at least like all
these girls who were catalog, like were so confused by
these high fashion girlies who are a little more fucked up,
looking like.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Winning more like angular and weird, and.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Like one girl in this is like she's gonna pick
you because you're ugly or something.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Okay, just going through the seasons if we may, Yeah,
let's go through the seasons. Because do you think should
have won the first season? Elise?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
I mean put that on my gravestone. Alise should have
won the first season.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Okay, what about season two? Do you think it should
have been because that was Mercedes? No Joanna one?

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Oh, I agree, I think Johanna should have won. I
like always had a crush on her.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Because Janna Stickinson thought Mercedes should have won.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah. I just thought Joanna did have such a kind
of high fashion face.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
I know, but looking at her now and like how
basic in like Australian she's gotten, I'm a little just
like maybe it shouldn't have been her. Okay, I kind
of think it should have been April, the Asian girl
with really chic with the bangs.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yes, with the ban she was really chic, she was
really fab.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Okay, I kind of think it should have been her.
Season three, Oh that was Eva.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
I mean I love Eva and she's kind of happy.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah, should have been yeah, yeah, no question And yeah
went on to become the most successful.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, she's been in like ten seasons of Chicago Fire.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
And we celebrate, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
We celebrate her. I mean never forget yeah, yah saying
respect in Portuguese respect.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Do you remember Jenna from like season seven or eight
or nine or something whatever it was? There was the
one that Celicia won.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Jenna had an incredible portfolio. Her face was so high fashion.
Jenna du set look her up. She was incredible. And
then Celicia, it turns out, had known Tyra previously and
done like Tyra's modeling girls or whatever.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Oh my god, this girl was such a random was
like no, no, Jenna.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
And it's set and Jenna do set like totally slay own.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Oh notes, but I wonder where she is now and
she was five eleven, she.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Like couldn't have been more model, And it's like, this
is why I think j Manuel's revelation that there's a
ringer each season was completely correct.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
So one of like the big plot points in this
book is basically kind of a fictionalized version of though
we were all rooting for you scene and let's all
go to our pages.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Oka. Wait, so in this version, instead of Tiffany or Brittany,
Tiffany this is her name in the real and the
real show. So instead it's this Irish codet with long
red hair that Tyra forced to cut the hair so
she could not win so she would look bad and
like shaved her head like later in the season.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Which, by the way, like I think that's what Alta
was so insane about NTM like it just like made
girls do these crazy things. And even though Jay Pablo
is shaking his head on set being like, they're not
actually gonna shave her beautiful red hair.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Okay, wait and you do. You be Keisha and I'll
be Nicole with an h because she's Irish.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Nicole, I challenge you with your new cash branded look,
but by the disturbed expression on your face, I don't
think you handled it well. Nicole smiled and interrupted the star.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Actually, I'm extremely proud to rock my bald head.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Because she paused for a moment swallowed me.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Mum fought a long and painful battle with breast cancer.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Droplets of tears formed along her lower lash line.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Listening to what Youja said reminded me of a true
inner strength and integrity that my mother instilled in me.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Keisha tried to cut the teared medal off. Oh that's sweet,
and Nicole cut a second time.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Having my long red hair shaved off gives me a
far more noble cause than your TV eighteings. Bald is
beautiful will be my new identifier, my brand. So I
thank you for freeing me from wanting to model myself
after you.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Nicole's smile was radiant, victorious, lethal. Pablo's body levitated into
the air. The judges, everyone, even Joe Vong was gobsmacked.
No one could believe that a model contestant was actually
standing up to Keisha and calling her out on camera.
It was a bit like watching this giant cyclone building

(34:04):
on stage. There was a reason her brother used to
call her column. Keisha's eyes bugged so far off her
head that she looked like she was about to blow
her lip. Literally.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
I loved him just being like such a crazy bitch. Yeah,
he's always There's a reason Tyr is like such a
fucking nasty, disgusting.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Even her brother thinks she's a swamp, ugly bitch.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Her bug eyes. Okay, I'll be the narrator now over
the headsets, Pablo could hear the low pitched rumble of
Keisha's don't fuck with me, demonic possession voice.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Do you know what? Do you know where I've come from,
what I've gone through? Oh do you think you are?

Speaker 1 (34:41):
I'm a proud bald woman who's going to raise prest
comes her awareness and raise money to stop this awful disease.
Nicole's eyes blazed with defiance. Brilliant Harper accidentally chirped out loud.
Pablo had never seen Keisha like this, but the scene
felt like deja vu. This would undoubtedly haunt her for
the rest of her career. Stop talking, Keisha screamed.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
What I speak to you? You listen? Everybody listen.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
The shouting woke Sasha up. This is Jennis Dickerson. She
swoveled her head towards mess thing. What's going on?

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Meltdown?

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Alert like a gunslinger. Sasha reached between her recently plumped breath,
pulled out her iPhone from her comatose vantage point aimed.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
How dare you challenge me? You are nothing before you
came here. You think you're better than all the other
girls who felt like hell to get here. You're nothing,
no one, and you're done. You can leave now, go
back to Grandma's house and sleep on that radiass mattress
with your brother Davy and his club foot.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Well did I? Keisha pointed Nicole's body, with you look
at this.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
This is gonna last. Men are gonna tire of you
and find the next hot young thing. Designers will turn
on you too. Everyone will leave you in the end, everyone.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Wait a minute, be quiet, And that was it. That
was the scene. You guys all remember.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
We all rooted for you, but Jay makes it not
even we all rooted for you because there was some
kindness in Tyra's true freak out.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, well, I think the thing about Tyra's true freakout
that it was also more like she's like, I'm supporting
this young black girl, yes, who's like coming up from poverty,
and I'm rescuing her, but I also like know what
it's like and like cause you know, a huge part
of like Tyra's whole thing was like telling black girls
that they needed to like you know, I mean, remember
what's her name who? She was like, you need to

(36:32):
close your gap, which was actually the worst advice ever
is her gap? God, because she was kind of thinking
of it that's like, oh, you're like too black.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
I mean like you need to play the game like
I did basically and like for Victoria's privacy.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
And was always telling her that her like voice was
too country and she needed to like be like more
elocution and like sound more white and then like have
her teeth like not.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Because but then here's something on Momimia dot Com Australia
that says, when Tyra banks, why didn't it contestant?

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Well, yeah, what's funny is because then Tyra later realized that.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Danielle Danielle needed to get the gap fixed.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, and now we have daniel Evans brigs her house
and we start as a clip of Tyra Beks holding
her to have her teeth cut, closing and market blah
blah blah. Anyway, so we all remember that, but like
that was this huge thing. And so what Jamie Nouel
is kind of he does criticize the Tyra character like
somewhat for being like, you know, very hypocritical and her
like kind of savior.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Role towards young well you know, he does it mostly
when he basically roast her for writing Model Land.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yes, which is Tyra's shitty novel.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Right, And so there comes upon the book Plagiarize, right,
where like Tyra is always tip tapping, He's always like,
she's always two thumbs deep. And then it's like he
quotes miss Thang is going maybe this beacons she is not.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
But she writes this can't type.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
So she writes this sci fi novel called Planet Fearce
that's like a one hundred pages and then there's a
fake review in it where they're like, it's not that
it's cliche. It's not that it's like stupid, it's that
like they make it like all the characters are still
so stereotypical.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
But you know it's interesting because he also has this
thing where he's seeing that Tyra is like completely cynical
in her choices of who the ringer is, and she's like,
I view these girls stories as only useful in so
far as it like plays with the audience, and so
like we' of course always want there to be the
ugly duckling into the swan. We want to like take
the poor black girl and then like make her like

(38:36):
successful and palatable. We want to like have the first
plus size model, but only like because we can say
we had the first plus size model.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
This is the I feel like, the most kind of
like scarring part to Tyra's personality. In the fake review
of Model Land, it says, if there is to be
any redeeming quality of missus Cash's hulking wreck of literary debut,
it's that her exidential crisis serves as a wonderful psychological
case study for explaining theories of internalized racism. Perhaps this
is the greatest literary contribution Planet Fears could make.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Wait, this part of is amazing. So you're just reading
from this on it's there's a fake review and it's
like a different fond and everything.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
They laid out like a newspaper and everything.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
The writing is much better in this fake review, and
it's kind of interesting that Jamanuel managed to like get this.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
So when they were mentioning like Octavia Butler and you're
kind of like, who did he call on to write?

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Now, well, there are references. He does say his favorite
movie is The Matrix. Like he is he is very.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Sci fi because he's silver haired, and like the whole
end of the book is him being like I should
have taken the blue pill, but the red pill is
going on antim let's make that meme.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
And like later he says that his dream was to
be in an ethnically diverse Dan Brown novel. Right, He's
like he seen together the like ransom note of the
Blood from the Mom and.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
He actually he mentions Dan Brown a lot because it's
like the mom in prison has like the is like
a big mom in prison who helps out Tyger's mom
and it's like she had an amazing cell. It was
full of Michael Connolly and Dan Brown novels.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, so mama likes to read. He's a readist, he's
a sci fi nerd. So maybe he did write the
fake review, but that it's interesting that the rest of
the book is written in so like Babysitters Club, ass
like there are.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Some type of ice cream flavors for Red Store Bay
and like the back of the book. The printing is
so close to the edge of the.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Cover getting closer and closer. Okay, I do want to
talk about the Nigel Barker. It was a sex scene,
so there is a me too scene in here or.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
And the phrase me too is mentioned so much in
this book, right, They're always like, we have a me
too on our hands. Fuck, we have a me too?

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Okay, wait do you want to do yeah? Okay, so
actually started ninety seven. All right, do you want to
be Mason Hughes or do you want to be Papla?

Speaker 2 (41:02):
I want to be Mason Hughes. Okay, you should model
BVDS mate.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Mason leaned on the door jam and if Pablo had
no manner, he swear he was checking him out. Are
all Britt's metrosexuals pretty much? Mason shrode into the room
and looked around.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Dion said there was wardrobe to try on. Looks like
there's more than a wardrobe.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Pablo felt so much Shyle of a sudden, Why haven't we.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Talked about doing a test shoot with you yet?

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Mason framed his face, looking through his hands like they
were camera lens, and made some mock shots of Pablo's
nearly naked body.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
I'm positive we could create magic together. Wrap that body
in my seductive.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Light, corny British humor, extreme close up. Mason moved in close.
Now Pablo could smell his easily recognizable extreme noir tom
Ford cologne. He did a little voguing, twisting his shoulders,
his hips, all in good fun. Suddenly, Mason slapped Pablo's
nipples like they were frat boys and grabbed his ass. Hey.

(41:59):
Pablo turned away. Mason raised an eyebrow as if to say,
you game was he? Mason was handsome, sexy, straight, a
strange attachment between the president and the pass kipp across
Pablo's mind. Half of him was still the ugly, awkward kid.
The biracial boy in a sea of white faces. Don't
let them get you down, his mother used to tell him,
while wiping the tears from his eyes. You are more
than you're outside. They just can't see beyond their own

(42:20):
skin and narrow minds. You've got to be better than
him and show them that you're there equal. Papa could
hear voices if it were yesterday. Like a predator about
to pounce on his prey, Mason moved closer.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
No one has to know know what.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Pablo was confused. Mason grabbed Paula by the chest and
threw him to the floor, and, like a seasoned initiator,
dropped his own pants all in one quick gesture. What
are you doing? Pablo pushed back.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Oh, don't be a cock tees. You've been coming on
to me for months.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Mason slammed his hard body on top of him and
thrust his tongue down Pablo's throat. His saliva tasted sweet,
but Pablo was still disgusted. I know how your people
like it in a Boa construction. They rolled across the
wardrobe and Mason's legs snapped on Paplo's You make.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Me so hord, yeahs.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
A drust was against Papula's Mason try humpt and heaved
a hard and ribbed direction across the trapped creative director. Sorry,
keeping a ribb direction across the trapped creative director.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Pablo forced himself to relax. Mason eased his grip on him.
That's how he likes.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Bubblo punched him, slam, Get off me. He's campered to
his feet, you arrogant fuck what Mason was a god?
Paplo grabbed his clothes and bolted for the door. Why
don't you go on porn hub and jerk off. He
exited the dressing room and roared behind him, Patriet, go
fuck yourself.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Okay, so this is okay, this is the wild. This
is the most fantasy that you know. Jay obviously thought
Nigel was so hot, and that was the thing of it.
Nigel was so hot, but he was married.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
I just don't think Nigel ever, I means.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Think Nigel Boka like came on to Jay and was like,
don't your people like it like that?

Speaker 1 (44:07):
I knows.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
And then but this scene in the book is just
a way again to show how like fucked up Tyra
is because after it, Jay slash Pabla goes over to
Keisha's house for Mordal Delche and ribs and to watch
a Judy Garland movie and tells her about it. It is crying,
and Tyra's basically just like, don't say anything. You should
be happy he hit on you, Okay, this hot British guy.

(44:34):
It was like you're not a woman. It's also like yeah,
and he's trying to be like, oh he said your
people like and made it like this like oh well
I'm this like straight guy yeah, and like you're just
this little fagot.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
But then it becomes this other like running point where
then Miss Thing keep making fun of Nigel, insinuating that
his wife is trail. Yeah, this is surgery, not that convinsed.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
And Miss Thing is always just like I've been seeing
her yoga videos, like she looks like a man. And
at one point a Miss Thing sends a picture of
his dick to mister J.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, and then mister j is like, I'm going to
put your dick pic like all over social media. Also
like this other racist joke that Miss Thing is making
about Nigel's wife, right, is there something you're not telling
us about? Suck Deep, the model coach interrupted. She don't
pass to a trained eye like mine, and ps, she
may want to stay out of harsh daylight hashtag just

(45:34):
saying he's.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Like, yeah, actually everyone on set was racist.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Everyone was like really really continue abusive.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
But me, I'm just kind of.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Anas Dickinson, who seems like the nicest person.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Right, which is probably true, not.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Being mean to anyone. No, I do believe that because
it's like she's harsh in her critiques because she's fabulous and.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
She's an actual model, so she's probably just been like, yah,
star for yourself and just model ways. But like wasn't
backstabbing and so crazy and the Tyra way.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
No, because all the rest of them were just like
literally being evil to each other and like not showing
up and said, and you're quing completely I'm professional where
it's like, yes, Jane's maybe passing out because she's wait,
she's there, there.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
She was there the whole time. Yeah, at the end
of the day, like I love mister J and I
love Tyra, and mister J like obviously contributed, so no.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
I and I'm sure your top model, and I'm sure
that his grievance is largely found in the fact that
he was not like pain enough. He wasn't respected enough
for the amount of work he was doing to make
that show good, like on to make it.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
What it was, because I remember like watching that in
high school and I was like, wait, I want I
was like whatever, mister Jay's job is, I want it,
and like, yeah, do I create photo shoots for my
own damn self?

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Now? Yeah? Period. So in a way, yes, but isn't
Tyra's insanity why the show is good?

Speaker 2 (46:49):
But then also he kind of is a little bit
of a hypocrite because when talking about the kind of
the controversial, unwoke episodes of Top Model, well, all decisions
at the end of the day, we're Ken malk and
Tyra oh.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
In the variety, Yeah, in the variety, Oh yeah, No,
he is like suddenly being so like I'm going to
do it's politically trendy and throw them under the bus.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
But then he's kind of saying like, well, all my
amazing ideas for the photo shoots were me.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, so look, I'm.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Sure everyone was a huge bitch except for Janas. Yeah,
I'm like the nicest person alive Jannis, And I just
think probably like Tyra did like make j come over
for ice cream, and made him feel like they were BFFs,
and then when he left, she was just kind of
like you're dead to me.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
I remember reading it in every once with her or
like a profile of her in the Times or something,
and it was about how she had IBS and it
was like she had these assistants and like it was
like she was like kept like sitting up and then
like sitting down again and was like wearing a big
white belt and like one of the assistants just goes,
is it ibs? And like even in the article, I
was like, Oh this assistants like so scared, like you

(47:56):
can tell, and like she's.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
I mean the gut rules all yeah, if something ain't right,
you're gonna lash out.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah. And it's funny that he didn't give the character
IBS in this book because maybe he thought that would
be like too many.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
I think. So he's just gonna make it like, oh,
look she's downing a rib and I'm gonna send this
photo of her eating ribs to Miss Things, but then
goes through Miss Thing's phone in the book and deletes
the photo to show like, oh look how nice I
am I delete the photo of like reading the ribs.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Also just about him putting out fires, yes, constantly, just
about like how a gay guy has to put out fires.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
And like there's a moment of the book where he
gets like a like Golden Globes runway job with Heidi
Klum and finally gets like a better inner ear mic
where he hears more going on.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
And then well because she refuses to have an inner
ear mic because she doesn't want all these voices in
her head control. Yes, but he actually loves like knowing
what's going.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
On, hearing everything.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Okay. Also later in the book when he just quotes
more endowed randomly, No, I mean again, I was like,
you are an insane Like.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Well, I wonder, okay, do you think though this part
is that's very Octavia Butler truth or fiction. The basic
culmination of this book is that Tyra promises.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Oh hay, I'm a talk show together, and then she
gets it just by herself.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
And he hears on the mic her being.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Like somewhere in between.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Right where it's like, I don't think it was going
to be the Tyra and Jay show. Maybe it was
like he was gonna have a segment or something like that,
and something happened.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
I'm sure there were conversations where she was not promising anything,
but he interpreted it as more of a promise than
it was. And she was like, oh, I'm thinking of
a talk show, and she didn't say my talk show,
but she didn't say our talk show, and then he
interpreted that as like, we're going to have a talk show.
And then you know, conversations came and maybe.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
She made a joke like oh my god, and like
you're so great on camera and Evere loves you. Now
maybe you can do a B and C.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Maybe she's a will work it all out. But I
doubt that she promised him the Tyrat And.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
I don't think ABC because or it was like on
ABC or CW.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Was on Yeah UPN and then c W.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I don't think they were going to ever have the Tyra.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
And J Show because America wasn't ready for a gig
guy co hosting a show.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
But it's also it's just Tyre Max. It's gonna be
called it the Tyre MAXs Show.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
It's funny also that he like is coming around the
same time as Stephen Cochocaru and was one of the
first gays on TV, like a real fag, And it.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Goes to what Kocho has told us that everyone was like,
so like, we can't handle what a faggot you are.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Kind of kind of yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Like miss Jay and I think mister j was always
like I'm gonna be a little mask right, silver hair
and kind of be the more controlled gay guy of
the show.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, controlled gay guy with an up silver contact. But
see then I'm like he is like kind of uptight
and maybe he would have freaked out if Nigel like
came on to him.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, he does seem a little up tight and like
he never looked hooks up in the book.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah, it's interesting and.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
He mentions like, oh, maybe like some of the lucky
people like in our three week break can have sex.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Because I'm sure also random contestants on the show were
fucking producers.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
And the camera, which is another thing yes.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
That happens in the book. And it's like, I'm sure
he's looking at this girls being like, damn, I'm jealous
of the fight that.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
You're wish at the time. But here I am eating
ice cream.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
With Tyra, with Tyra be four in the morning while
I'm like going over all the creative for this photo
shoot and she's not doing any of the.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Work, and then she's going in fucking a football player.
I still have to go through spreadsheets with Ken Mob. Ultimately,
the rule is, you can't believe anyone in Hold.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Don't believe anyone in Hollywood. You can't make an omelet
without breaking a few eggs. And no, you're not gonna
make one of the best reality shows of all time.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Without stepping on fucking tails.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, and like causing a lot of trauma.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Because Pablo even gets in a fight with himself aka
j Manuel in the book, and that's the real lesson.
You get in a fight with your inner men tour
actually trust no one. Okay. Everyone is like, so fucking shady.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
America's next top segments, What does she eat?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
What does she wear? How does she live? Wait, I
have to read.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
A passage about how does she live? About the apartment?

Speaker 2 (52:24):
About the apartment.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, I think this passage is pretty probably accurate to
his personal style.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Well, and in this it's very like Pablo spent hours
designing his new apartment. Coming through the front door, Pablo
wanted his guest eyes to be drawn to the ultimate
focal wall opposite his bedroom. At first glance, it looked
like an architectural detail, but it concealed the components in
his bank Ulson home theater system, which revealed the press
of a button or a request from Siri. In front

(52:52):
of that was a light gray Minotti sectional sofa and
one of his last famous script rugs, with illeligible black
writing scribbled across the white fabric. A white lacquer desktop
appeared to be floating in space above clear loosite legs
that had been fashioned to look like cut crystal stemmed
champagne glasses. He'd actually splurged on having a custom made

(53:13):
Eames executive chair created for his desk, white, of course,
like the clean palette of a painter. Pablo had created
a modern neoclassical vibe to help him keep a clear
mind when he wasn't on the chaotic set of Model Muse.
So it's just so gay, and it's like everything is
like white and loosit and like modern and metal and

(53:35):
like a white Eames chair. It's just like everything is
so just like Gay Guy twenty twelve, like white, clear and.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Modern modern modern rome.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
And there's like so much loos site and like floating
mirrors everywhere. I almost think his apartment is like cheesy
yours than this, and this is his fantasy.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah, do you think that he's like Big Audrey Hepburn.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Like do you think it's like silver white, fake crystal
Big Audrey Heppern like mirror chandelier and like maybe there
is like a loosight desk for sure, with like a
white lacquer tabletop. And I think it's like a white
leather sexual or bouclet. Now probably you.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Don't think he's gotten into any like more textiles in
the past few years.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Well, I think he likes MASONI pillows because he mentions those,
So I think he does have pops of color.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Okay, and pattern, pops of color and pattern exactly.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
But he's still like white, silver and matrix. What does
he wear? He's always wearing just like the tightis like buttoned.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
The way he dresses is like kind of how everyone
dresses to the club now, Like every gay guy looks
like j Manuel now where they're wearing like it's so
like bearragone. It's so like I'm wearing a tight animal
print vest and then flared jeans like bootcut distressed jeans,
and I have dyed my hair and I have an earring.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
He's now like so much, even more silver in his hair.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
He just like wet with silver and like cause.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
First cycle it was like bleached blonde and then I
got more and more silver. What does he eat? I
mean he probably can't even look at Joe's Shanghai now yeah,
or de Lache, But I think he's just like Sushi Taie.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
It's also funny because it's like Tyra does have an
ice cream company now, so like the whole ice cream
part is very true.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Not to say the amount. He must fucking hate Tyra.
It's crazy. The only thing he changed is make one
girl irish and add in a sex scene for himself
because he probably didn't like fuck for eight years anyway.
I just think he's very like Sesame ginger dressing, but

(55:41):
like he's buying.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
It from Annie's Annie's dressing.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Yeah, girls in the fridge, white.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Snow because hello, he's so like Matrix Modern. He's not
getting like bread and Circus asked like Cambridge mom dressing.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
I don't think he's going to like the Union Square
Whole Foods right now and is grabbing a three sixty
five Sesami ginger dressing.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
A Preta Mande loyalty card and that thing is worn out.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
I think he is making like a salmon for him
and like miss things sometimes.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Or maybe he's like factor meals now.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Oh, just delivery. I just don't you know if he
can afford the factory meals right now. Like so I'm
saying she's grocery shopping. I like literally like Da Castino's.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
He's getting the pre mix, like mung bean salad. Yeah, okay, Chills,
who are you in the book? I honestly identified with
almost everyone in this book because I was like, wait,
I feel like Rachel Prod the like Xanax popping producer.
I feel like Janis, who's just like a sleep. I
feel like Nigel, who's British. I feel Nigel.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Sorry. The only person you're not in this book is.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
I feel like Tyra because she's like.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
You're Tyra Bean, Like, come over, I have flavors, but
that are all to just.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Like go, yeah, come over, you need to leave.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
You're always been like one of the dumplings. I love
not that.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Not that are you Jay, because like you are so
like I went to fashion school and I dreamed of
becoming a fashion designer and you're so f I T right.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
And I'm like working for Michael Cores, and I'm like,
this is my one shot. Do you feel like I'm
being so like.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
You do behind this?

Speaker 2 (57:23):
No? If you say, oh, you're so silly. Little do
they know.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I'm writing a podcast, writing podcast descriptions every week.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
And coming up with photoshoot ideas and like, I'm not adopted,
but what if I was.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
No one will be surprised.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
The adoption storyline in this book. That's a reason to
support Jay.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Okay, you're Jay.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
You're Tyra. I think I'm also like miss d La
renta stylist who I'm just like, girl, don't go there.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yeah, they were Switzerland because he's so neutral and that
is so you and you are like neutral in a war.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
And I'm kind of like getting the tea.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
But I'm like, don't I totally see Switzerland for you
Switzerland and Tyra.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
But also you're Gemos. Thank you because you're actually Sweden.
People think you're such a bitch, right, but you're actually
just giving.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Like no, it's like to criticism is bitchy, but like
as a human at.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
The end of the day, like picking someone up at
the hospital, yes, and.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
You're not about taking care of my own loyalty is everything.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
To me in this industry. Okay, how do I it's
so crazy to write this book. On one hand, I'm
like ten fierce catwalks out of ten, Like as a
kind of piece of outsider art, it's so amazing. If
I'm talking about fiction, fiction is not.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
So fiction is not literature. It is barely I I
do struggle with that and just the overall quality of it.
But then I'm like, yes, as a piece of like
mail art.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Yeah, like outsider mail art, like MoMA conceptual art from
wordy dot com.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
I'm obsessed with it, and I'm obsessed that he just
went forward and did it and was like, twenty twenty,
I'm publishing this book that no one wants for some reason,
even though it is it insane.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Tell all, I just can't believe you went there and
really tore Tyra a new one like this.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
I'm surprised that he didn't just write a memoir, but
I guess it's like the legal issues of him too much,
and he was like too afraid.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
May of us speak, and he is not well.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
I also feel like maybe on some level he's hoping
for forgiveness, forgiveness from Tyra and he wants that relationship
to be repaired in some way.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
He wants her to read it and be like, you're right,
I was rude. I was a bit calm over. We're
having literally movies Dulce delche. Yeah, all right, mister Jay, Congratulations.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Thank you. You are one of the most important culture
figures of the century.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
You are the winner.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
You are the winner of of America's next top podcast Best.
My Daughter and Arms on the Runway is our fabulous producer,
Darby Masters.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
This episode was supervised produced by none other than Miss
Thing abou Zafar, work Bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
And of course we have no one to thank but
mister Thing. Our engineer Bahid Fraser.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Our fierce executive producer is Christina Everett Mother.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Our theme song was done by Fierce down in Dirty
Divas Stephen Phillips Horst. He makes me strut down the
sidewalk like the catwalk that it is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Artwork was done by a really sexy, sexy British artist
I discovered when I was in Miami on a work
trip with Teddy Blintz.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I originally conceive this podcast in bed with Prologue projects
eating ice Cream one night, Well, it was three in
the morning, we were crying about boys, and we were like,
wait a minute, we have to do it podcast about this. Ultimately,
we have part of ways creatively, but I wish him
the best in his future endeavors.