November 6, 2024 • 58 mins
I couldn’t help but wonder if Samantha should be the one writing a book about sex. Maybe she could finally explain where the G-spot is, or would it just end up being an episode of CBC? This week, we are pleasuring ourselves with Canadian sex god Kim Cattrall’s book "Sexual Intelligence." We go deep inside the part history-part outsider art photography book and discuss ancient aphrodisiacs, what Toronto singles really want in bed, the phallus in art, oysters, female Viagra, bundles of nerves, outdoor lovemaking, and where our fantasies really come from.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Celebrity book Club.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi, I'm Kim Katrell and I'm doing a documentary about
the sexual lives of Toronto residents. We're going to talk
to ten sexually active Greater Toronto residents about what turns
them on, what turns them off, and what makes them climax.
(00:34):
First up, Davis thirty four.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I like when a woman gets home from work.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Kira twenty nine. This thing happened to me when I
was twenty eight, where I only liked guys with broad shoulders.
Now I like guys with slender shoulders. I don't know
what happened, but it just gets me off. Shira thirty three.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I was with my last boyfriend for seven years when
I realized I'd never had an orgasm before. So I
went to the Chicago Art Institute and I brought my
favorite toy, a candlestick brass rested, and I did everything
(01:27):
that you can imagine right there in the impressionist room.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Tanya twenty two. I love early morning sex, especially with
a powerful man with an an even bigger espresso machine.
Poor Mia shot of Dick.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Cage twenty one. I don't think a big dick really
matters that much. I've never gotten complaints about my normal dick.
I think other guys dis are totally cool. When I'm
at the urinal, I look at them, or I don't
look because I don't think it really matters that much.
It's just a beautiful object.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Alan. I was with my wife for many years until
one day she dressed up as a man. I've never
been so hard in my life. Turns out I go
both ways. Judy twenty eight. I don't know what to
(02:32):
do with balls. Who's that knocking at the door. It's
all your friends. You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You've got books and a bottle of wine to kill.
It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm sure it's memoirs. Celebrity book Club. Read it while
it's hot. Celebrity book Club. Tell your secrets. We will
talk celebrity books.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
No boys are aloud, say it loud and pounds celet
book Clubs.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Spuzz me in. I brought the queer vow. Oh hey,
best friend, lover, coworker, acquaintance. Strange.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
How I am feeling really alive in my body today?
You know, my human body, which is one of the
most peculiar instruments on this earth, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's so interesting. It's full of nerves, full of hair,
full of different sensations. It's been studied, It's been studied
since three thousand BC.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Why is sex always ancient? Just always antiquity?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Like sex is always like in Roman times from the
bath they would feed on grapes and the phallacies were
open and played with.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Let's just get into it. So what did we read
this week?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
We read it with me Petrel.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Who you may know from Sex and the City as Samantha.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
The sexiest cast member.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And has a book and documentary.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that are kind of the same exact.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Their companion pieces.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Sold separately at Bs and Nobles and Borders. And her
book and documentary, Sexual Intelligence, which is very like two
thousand and six six and especially it's a glossy coffee
table book that is about.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Desire, desire, human sexuality and history and men and women bodies.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
The differences between their bodies and how the glitterist has
more nerves than any other part of the body. But
the fallas.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Is so interesting, so like half of the movie Slash Book,
it is just always going back to ancient Roman, ancient
times and ancient people's worshiped.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The fallous but afrodity. And the reason this book came
about is because she said, you know, playing Samantha, one
of the most famous sexual characters on television, people would
see her as the sexpert and come up to her
and tell her their randy stories. They're Samantha stories and
be like, oh my god, like you must be an expert,
(05:42):
a sexpert. Yes, And she was like, I was actually
embarrassed to say I'm not Samantha, Like I actually don't
have amazing sex every night, and I don't have the
craziest stories. So it inspired her.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
In a note from cam in the beginning of the book,
she goes, after the first two seasons sex and the
city people began coming up to me wanting to share
their own Samantha scenarios. This was flattering, but could sometimes
be embarrassing as well. People assume that I, like Samantha,
had always enjoyed fabulous sex, when in fact the opposite
(06:14):
was true, as is the case.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
For many women.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Sexual fulfillment came late with the publication of my first book, Satisfaction,
The Art of the Female Orgasm. I wanted to reach
out to women and men with the hope that what
I had eventually learned could work for them, and finding
my own fulfillment. And then she goes, I'm not a
sex expert or a therapist. Still the male and the
questions continued. It seems there remained so much more to
explore and learn. I decided to call this new project
(06:39):
sexual intelligence because I wanted to be just that, a
gathering of information and insights.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And is it a gathering of.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Okay, it's so many quotes from experts, and just like
studies show, study show, And in her book The History
of the Female.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It soys what's love got to do with it? Love,
in all its complexity and irrationality, has not always held
the value it does today. In the fascinating history Love
in the Ancient World, authors Christopher Miles and John Julius
Norwich tell us, for the ancients, love did not make
you better, It made you worse, like she's always like,
(07:18):
Quoting a different book about how the Romans had sex.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Psychology refers to Roy Baumeister suggests that women have more
erotic plasticity than men. Their sex trips are shaped more
by circumstances and by social and cultural forces. The common
suture recommends saffron, musk, and sandalwood as substances whose smell
blends with that of the woman and encourage your sexual exectation.
(07:44):
Even the Bible contributes the literature on fragrances and desires.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Okay, here's a little witclosure book. Here's a little quiz,
and everyone play along. In the Bible book book in
the Bible, what does she say are the aphrodisiac sense
that a man puts on a bed to lure his woman?
Was it what I just said? Is it saffron and musk?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wait? Is it like camel? It's like mr oh, okay,
cinnamon and aloe, which I'm like, hmm, I just like it.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Because cinnamon is so fall and it's so just like
mom apple pie.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well then I made this kind of crazy connection this yes,
thank you, thank you, because she says one of the
most deronic sens are like pumpkin and spice and cinnamon.
And we think, oh Christian girl, autumn, and why are
these girls so obsessed with their pumpkin lattes? And it's
actually because they're so turned on by it. But society
(08:50):
tells us a woman can't say, hey, honey, come home,
I'm a horny I'm baking pumpkin bread. She has to say, oh,
I love pumpkins because I love Hocus.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It's always comes back to the madonnah or complex. But
I think this is actually so interesting because the classic
feminine sense are not actually the sense we ironically associate
with eroticism and desire.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's the quote.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Mascot little wood right, and like leather right in tobacco,
like alcohol with whiskey. It's like those are like sexier sense,
whereas like these traditional feminine ones are like kind of
associated with like either purity or matronliness. Yeah right, like
this Christianity who like the floralness. Yeah, it's either Christian
(09:35):
or it's you've already had kids. And now you smell
like a flower. You smell like an old flower. Your
vagina is sealed. You are no longer sexual department store.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And I'm so glad we're talking about scent right now
because something happened to me so interesting today. I'm wearing
your lover's father's shirt right now.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Wow, talk about outles blical, biblical.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
And I was on the train week of Cinnamon. I
was on the train and I was like, what is
that smell? And I. I was looking around at men.
I was like, who smells kind of bad but manly
on on the train and I was looking around. I
was just kind of women with books and I was
like not adding up. And then I was in the bathroom.
(10:23):
And then I went into the bathroom, I said, the
smell is still with me, and I realized it was.
And it was this collection of.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Men journey in center of my boyfriend's father, me, my boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, your closet, Landlord Ridgewood all into one when researchers said.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
The Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago
conducted a study on the effects if any of fragrances
and sexual assle. They use floral sense and threw in
the smell of big Simon buns as a control. As
each hoop smelled each testcent, individual blood flow in men's
penises was measured using a small blood pressure cuff called
(11:11):
a follometer penis. To the research, to surprise, the sticky
buns raise their subjects blood flow more than any other scent.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So you see science proofs that is to fall. Yes,
because why do we call also fall couffing season?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Oh, because we all put our fallometers on.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
As we go to Cinnabon, we're getting our pumpkin is
beeping off the chiseling.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Mama VENTI, I'll have a venty and signed me. If
you know what I'm saying, you know the book and film,
I will say. The only difference is that in the
book Kim sorry Kittrell, So it's Katrell Trell, and I've
always said.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It is very much spelled like Coatrol. She's in Liverpool, Darling,
and she grew up in British Columbia, in a small
town on Vancouver Island, which is not Vancouver. It's like
this island off the coast. It's like Vancouver is on
the mainland, and then this is a large island off
the car.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And she doesn't really have like a British accent. She
has this kind of Canadians.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Like a sexually international Canadian accent.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It's like a sex accent. It is. First of all,
she's also a sex therapist. She was born to write
this book.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
She's also ben forty one, like since nineteen seventy one,
because when you look at her in her like first roles,
she's already been this woman who's sexually wise beyond her years.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Right, and being like, well, I like it when.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I think partially because she has that like Cindy Crawford
mole that sometimes she's covering up, but sometimes she has
I think it's also like.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
The haircut, the bangs, her kind of huskier voice in
the documentary. And this bisexual person is also quoted in here,
so in.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
The Bye Girl the documentary who it looks like a
Parker Posy character Kissy. I'm talking y two k bisexual
Canadian name than Kisty.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So they are all these like men and women who
are interviewed in the documentary and.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
All and just like the softest like micro silk play.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Microsal microfiber shirts, all have the craziest haircuts, but also
just such like barbell piercings in this way. Yeah, Like
the guys are very penis piercing.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I'm obsessed with the guy who's just like, if you
can get two women in bed with you, they've got
to be pretty dumb.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
They're like two and in bed. Sure, I'll take it, Okay.
They all kind of seem like lesbians, but then there's
this one lesbian who's actually.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
By Yeah, that was confusing, really, Pierre run with the piercing.
She was so butch. I was like, then when she's
were talking about men, I was like, mom.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Mus yeah, I was like what and she was like,
there's nothing like when a bulge is against fabric. And
she was like, I like it big. But then she
was like, nothing's better than when like a girl is
eating you out with a tongue ring, which is also
the most nineties thing. And I remember like when I
was first kind of coming into my own sexuality and
like hearing that being like, wait, I should get like
(14:23):
a tongue rings.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I know, tongue ring oral sex. It was so
also talked about like dude, have you ever gotten head
from a girl with a tongue ring?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yes? Fucking fucking crazy, Like you don't even know what
a blowjob is until you've experienced. First of all, no
one has tongue rings anymore. No one.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Everyone has a fucking nose ring. Everyone has the bull
piercing laurence.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Is that good for lingis?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well maybe if your nose is really buried in there.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, the nose is always good I think for punde lingus.
So you say it acts as a.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Phallus, what if you maybe did like kind of a
nasal attachment that was such a like rubbery.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Instead of like let me get my knob, like let
me get my strap, it's like let me get my
full like ebeny. It's kind of a medal play mask.
It's like the big like orse so knowlence costumes question, Stephen,
(15:24):
do you dress up in the bedroom? Erotic place is
so important? Studies show that in ancient times, I mean,
let's go back to the fig leave well.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
First of all, my favorite bird of the documentary is
at the very beginning, after the intro, which is completely insane,
cut to her standing in front of the Toronto skyline
and she just goes, let's talk about sex, and you're
just like, why Toronto, Why is this the capital of sex?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Why?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
There's no explanation because it's being like cities, because there
is a travel budget for the She's at some like
Scottish like land art that's made in like medieval times.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Has this huge like machiness Pallas.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
She goes to Cypress, to Aphrodite's beach, just to walk
out of the waves and be like Aphrodite.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
The original seductress. For generations we've been influenced. And then
it's very like such a like early film collage of
just like Hollyberry and Incomes of the Beach and Cyndy
Crawford and be like, where would we be without Afrodite.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Without the sirens and water which is so connected to sexuality.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And then she's in the rocks as like a random
guy is like.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Giving her an oyster that she's then slurpy because the
oyster represents feminism desiacs okay.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And then my other favorite part in her travel and
hears a quote of it when she happens upon like
a stone carving of a dick, and then she's like, oops,
Dallas is recarved into the pavement on street corners, set
in bricks on the outside walls of buildings and even
outfitted with little bronze bells called ttuliba and dangled over
(17:13):
doorways and entrance halls. Talk about having a lot of
balls in the air because it's like she's being like,
I'm not Samantha, but then this book will be filled
with like little Samantha sides being like now that's a fallows.
And then the most amazing photo she.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Is standing next to this like Scottish wind chime that's
like a massive metal dick with wings.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
It's like a dick whale that is winged and has
its own dick, an alerg dick, and is like held
by bells.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
So she talks about the decline of the fallis es
central to western art and how yes, and so in
ancient Greece and ancient Rome, the Fallas was like represented
like separately, and in Pompeii there's all these large dicks everywhere.
But then the phallas became like smaller in statues we
(18:07):
all know, like ancient statues had small dicks because it
was like a man having a big dick was like
too unreliable, because like there's such just a anthelion where
she's like, if a man has a big dick, you
can't trust you can't trust him.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And then she goes hmm hm.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
But then, like the Middle Ages and Christianity brought on
a lot of repression and the fig leaves and this
sort of fear of the disclosure of the phallas making love.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And she's like King Torontola or whatever like brought his daughter,
like the King of Naples, Oh yes, and then he
covered up all of the.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Art unwittingly brought his daughter along to tour artifacts excavated
from sites in Pompey. What he saw shocked and embarrassed him,
and he ordered that a room he set aside of
the National Archeological Museum of Naples for all offending wall paintings.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And and here we were as pagans, freely making love.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You know, it is true, obviously, it's like we think
about depictions of female nudity have been very common throughout
art for millennia. But then of course you look back
at Manet and Olympia and everyone was the context was
always very virginal with the women or it was like godly,
it was otherworldly. It was never like a real woman
showing her real pussy.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Spread, right, It's always kind of women resting, yes, or
women at war.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yes, or like women posing for the painting in the
way we understand she's just doing it. It's like anatomy, but.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They're not like being so like reverse cowgirl like certainly
not Statue of David.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
And that's why Olympia caused such a hullabloo at the
Salon in the eighteen eighties, because she was making eye
contact with the viewer and her like attendant was there.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And not just kind of this dazed eye. And then
you know, in the documentary, Shelter mentions what the Metropolitan
Museum of Art had an exhibit of Lucian Freud and
there was warnings, yes, saying content warning, trigger warning, there's nudity,
but yeah, there's nudity throughout the met Yes, but he
was this modern showing of sexuality.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Because nudity without sex is fine. And I think what's
interesting about Hiding the Pallas is it's almost we can
desexualize the vagina, but we like can't be sexualize a penis? Now,
why is that misogyny?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Misogyny exactly? And this book is also so classic nineties
early two thousand and away, where there's an amazing photo
of two speakers. One speaker says man, and there's one
switch and that's off on and off and on, and
then a woman's speaker is like knobs.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Because women are attracted to so many more things ideas and.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Power and brains, but also fear. But what I think
is interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Tightnancy about this book is that it would ultimately argue
the reverse as the documentary, which is that sexuality is
so complicated and we are all animated by fantasy. Wit
I love the insane like lesbian who's maybe not a
lesbian in the documentary, who's just like if people heard
my fantasies, they would put me in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Oh yes, you're like whoa, You're like, what are they?
This is the one who was like the tongue rang
one and.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
She looks just like a women's hockey coach.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Like she's like the bushes. Then like the one who
actually is a lesbian is like just the most like
nineties our bodies, our bodies, ourselves, like bad nineties haircut.
That is like lesbian bed death. It's real. But then
also it w was is surprising. She's the one that says,
I didn't even look at my vagina with a mirror
(21:43):
till two years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I just watched that episode of Sex and the City
the other day.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
One of the most classic episodes of television of all time,
when Charlotte finally looks, and it's Samantha, of course, being like, honey,
you've never taken a mirror and looked down there and
see what's all the working parts? And Charlotte's like, why.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
No, Because it's also when her doctor tells her her
vagina's depressed.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Which is funny, kind of in the History of Sex
and the City two of those characters, because I think
Charlotte is the one that ends up being more kind
of sexually free and kinky.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Because she's so ltr and which she knows, as Samantha says,
Sorry Samantha, As Kim Katrell says in this book, oxytocin
can decrease between years two and three in a relationship,
and that's why divorces peak around year four worldwide seven
year itch more.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Like four year stretch.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Book Club.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Club.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
She's like, the seven year itch is when you've had
the chemicals like four year dip for three years too
long or whatever, which is you know, this.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Is interesting, let's talk about Let's talk about.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
The seven year itch and the four year X because I.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Remember this famous article in New York Times magazine that
was like about the search to find the female viagra.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Well, and she says that it's impossible because women have
so many knobs that like, it doesn't work on women,
and I can't just have blood rushing to the clit
and all of a sudden a woman's horning.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
But I do think there is something a little false
in that. I feel like studies have shown and not
totally where they were like, oh, no, you couldn't have
a female viagra, and they were like, you can lubricate
a woman, but she wouldn't necessarily be turned on, which
may be true. But I'm like, but also, aren't they interconnected,
(23:44):
because then it's like if a woman does take the
pill and then she does feel like she can be
more what, then maybe her mind will open to more
of these kind of fantasies.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think part of it is so wrapped up in
the mythology of the biology of the woman.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Because a woman can't get hard, so the viagra can't.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Work well, yes, and because the vagina is a cave.
A cave is full of mystery. It's a dark space.
We don't know what's in there and we never will.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But it turned out a woman actually can get hard,
as studies have shown. Glitteris doesn't gorge. It doesn't gorge
when turned on.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
But I think because it is not as visibly obvious.
If a man is hard, he is visibly hard. But
if a woman's glitterist is visually engorged, you might need
you mean, some other note To an outside observer, it's
not immediately apparent, and that is why we will continue
to push the mythology that a woman's attraction is purely
(24:46):
mental and is purely spiritual and motivated by social concerns.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And you know, it's funny in this racle they say
a woman is actually more likely to feel before you're
itch to be like okay, you know, like because it
is not being like I know if you've had a
four year itch, so you're gonna collogize, right, And the
man is actually more fine with having the same old
sex with the same old woman, maybe over and out
(25:14):
year after year. And the woman actually needs a little
more excitement, a little more change, yes, and is not
gonna get turned on by Bill saying hey, han, what
about sex tonight?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yes, but I also think that that also just comes
back to like typical daynam And it's like, I think
the man is more fine with the same old, same
hold because he's been conditioned by society, by our review
of marriage, to view sex as something that like either
your wife gives you or she doesn't give you.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So it's like, if you're getting it, be happy, Yeah,
like dude, you should be happy do this. Yeah, Oh
you're getting your poll wet.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So it becomes this thing where it becomes Low's comm denominator,
and it's just like, well, then all he has about
is getting his pole wet. But in reality, the man
does have deeper fantasies that probably not being explored because
he's also like, it'd be really faggoty to explore a fantasy.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Where he's like, oh, well, I couldn't like tell you
what I wanted this right, And this is why it
goes back to community communication, which is so important in
a sexual dynamic, even when you're fetish just not communicating.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
How much would you say your father has influenced your type?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, this whole book is very just like kissing, and
your attraction is so influenced by like breastfeeding and your parents' sexuality.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Wait, I love the way that page you were just
on ninety one. Yeah, this image of her holding a swan.
She's wearing a bedazzled bikini.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Kind of like and the Mermaids, And there's just.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
A large pol quote that says, how many people have
been baffled by a domination fantasy? What about imagining we
are the opposite sex and that.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
It's a photo of which is also so sex And
the city Samantha in like a business suit.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Oh wait, yeah, but she's also doing like a Charlie's Angels,
blowing out a finger gun. And then the other one
of her in the clouds is her holding a writing crop.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And then okay, the poll quote under the swan is
and some fantasies are well just playing odd creating them.
What's funny?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Sex in this City is so obviously the most important
Joe of all time. But I've been watching like season
four and there's all these like moments when everyone's like
freaked out. I mean, like Carrie's kind of like she's
she's always read out. She s freaked out with a
guy wh wants to piss on her. They're always like ew, Samantha, no,
like that's not cool, and like Samantha's freaked up the
(27:38):
baby talk guy.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Then Miranda is freaked out by the guy who like
goes down on her and then is like goes to
kiss her, and she's like, are you kidding me? A napkin,
I'm all over.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I'm like when Samantha is a lesbian for two episodes
and they're all just like, whoa, please stop saying the
word vagina. It's not cool.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, I don't want to hear that.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It's also because Miranda's so freaked out and you can't
understand it, Like she's wearing like six turtlenecks and she's
just like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And then it's when Charlotte has anal and they're like
what but he's your husband, and Charlotte's like, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Here's a question I have for you, Lily. Do you
think you have a type?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I was actually thinking about that so much during this book,
And you know, on one hand, I do think I do,
and then the other I actually don't think I do.
I know some would say, what's you have? I think
some would say, you know, I like a blonde. What
do you think that comes from? You know, does it
(28:45):
come from the rejection of my brunettess or is it
the creation of this kind of you know, stereotypical male sexuality.
It's about my desire to be this American blooded man
with the poor event and a blonde and fulfilling that fantasy. Yes,
my persona even more than the blonde. Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I think that's one hundred percent true. And I think
our own sexual identity is so wrapped up in our
fantasy of another person.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
What do you think is your type. Well, I think
I do have this type. I think you have a
few types of a couple types, and I think everyone does.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yes, some would say a few hundred times hello.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh honey, my type it's allid Toronto.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Does he live in Toronto? Does he have a pulse?
But I think you know certainly that the types of
men that I've dated in long term relationships, they are
all these kind of like very American men if you
were so hot, Like they're kind of these all American types.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yet so funny because you're always desiring this kind of
franco file.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yes, and I think my fantasy is so much more
Mediterranean and it is like the guy who's serving her
oways on a rock in Cypress. But then I always
end up dating these like super kind of like the
baseball archetype, the lacrosse archetype. Like you know, there's the
art bro, or there's the midwestern guy, like the colorade
of the western Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
But there's these kind of different states.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yes, but they all have this kind of like semi
rural masculinity to all of them.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
No, And I think of the gay guy version of
that is like to be this girl, yes, right, yes,
and to want this guy because then I look like
you can change a tire.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yes, And so my kind of like desire to be
like a girl name let's call her Madison.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Maybe her name is Madison. Maybe she grew up in
suburban Toronto, went to a really good school, had a
really good family, shot really good grades, wants to be
a writer.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And it's funny because I've only really really traversed the
fantasy of like the European. I mean, I lost some
virginity to a British guy. My first boyfriend was British.
But then after that, Yeah, it's semi rural. Yeah, Western
mass Colorado, northern Washington, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
My type is northern Washington.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
So this like Toronto, which all makes me the Madison ultimately.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah. But then at the end of the day, I'm like,
what is my type? I think my type is a
mischievous smile. My type is a certain type of humor.
Maybe a little bit of bossiness in the streets, but
not bossy in the apartment. Not bossy in the apartment.
Now do you think your mother's breastfeeding influenced your sexuality? Oh?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Of course she had very large nipples, which is why
I desire a small one.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It's because in ancient times.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
As a rejection of the feminine.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right, the tinier the nipple, yes, the more you were attracted.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Nipples of course, were very tiny in Western art for
centuries until they started to gain prominence as a rejection
of the female form.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
There's a guy that's interviewed in this book who says
one of his turn ons is a woman who's really
good at martial arts. Now, that's what I'm saying. The
man's attraction is towards the brain. You know, it's like, yes,
maybe he has mourning wood, but a man who likes
martial arts, that's saying something.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Do you think it's just like because there's all sorts
of like a cultural fetishes that could come into play
there where he's associating martial arts with you know, a
badass woman, a woman, you know, like a dominant woman,
a woman of asia possibly yes, a woman of wearing robes,
which also has sexual connotations. And then the sword as
(32:41):
fallis and so maybe there's also like a latent homosexual attraction.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Right, I would say, like the martial arts, the desire
of domination is the most ereotypical thing is you know,
the businessman who wants to get walked on by stilettos. Now,
the word stiletto, the trial first says, came up in
America in the fifties and it's a long heeled shoe.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Aphdity means sea foam, as Aphrodity did emerge from the
waves of the Mediterranean and that's why women are so
assoctutid water. And then it's like the documentary cut to
that random woman just being like, oh, water is so
sexual to me.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I find the shower very erotic. Oh yeah, okay, like
I would say, like the more like basic woman that's
interviewed is this woman who says she's attracted to artsy guys,
but then she describes the guys she's attracted to, and
it's like, okay, everyone, She's like, I'm actually attracted to
really tall guys. Yeah, oh yeah, with really broad shoulders.
(33:45):
She's like, here's the thing. If they're tall without bron shoulders,
then I don't like them. Dark eyes, dark hair, curly,
dark hair. And then she's like, yeah, why do I
have these fantasies of having sex in water?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
And it's just it's like tall, dark and handsome, like
Guyana Beach it's.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Like, yeah, that's fantasy. And then all these just like
a nerdy dad scientists who have all written books called
arousal are interviewed, and this one, like dad arousal expert,
is like, you know, actually, when people have fantasies of
having sex and nature, it's actually that they want to
be free from the chaine of society. Yes, maybe they
(34:23):
want to be caught. Some people want to be caught
some people don't.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Have you ever had sex in nature?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
No? Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Maybe before you're forty.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It's not something I necessarily you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Don't fantasize about. The liberation desire.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It's more sex in yes, other places, but I wouldn't
call it the other places nature that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I've had to them as like friends, parents, guests, rooms.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You know, kind of more the American car, Yes, the
European nightclub.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Which is another side of masculinity, yes, American car. I mean,
I think obviously game al culture is really very nature,
very nature focused for cruising reasons, for social reasons, and
then I think obviously that is bound up in social
ideas of liberation, and so I think that the social
aspect of is interesting. But I do wonder about the
(35:17):
bye of physical relationship with nature, with feeling with dirt,
with bark, with sand, with water, and what that does
to eras well.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It also if we go back to the phallus in
the game and culture say, oh, you know the beach.
To me, who was born with the anatomy of more
of the labia minor, you know, the sex and the beach,
it seems, oh, what's going to get inside? It's getting
a little more shaped, it's getting a little more exfoliated.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yes, no, And I think that obviously anatomy wise there
is more room to experiment. Of course, men are always
pissed on trees, and then that has its whole like
the sexual markers of domination and territoriality like coming to
play there. But I actually wonder if there is in
nature itself. We were talking about mother nature, right, I'll
(36:14):
admit I've had sex in a bog before, and I
think that a different bod a different.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Okay, not the bobo. Just wanted to make things clear here.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
But it has a very mossy, spongy texture that is
in some ways very feminine, right it almost I wonder
if it is like men who were in the vision. Yes,
it is a return to the womb that we crave.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You're breastfeeding essential and you're saying, oh, we're here, but
mother is watching, and mother is saying it's okay. Well,
and it goes back to the brain thing. And you know,
to quote Christian Cavaleria, the question always is, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Sexual expert Kristin Cavaleri, and she.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Was like, what would I do if I had a
parade where I would like jerk off all day long?
Then I would piss? And I do think in that
way like sex outside would be easier with the foulus.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Absolutely and oral of course, although isn't oral easy anywhere
for a woman?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Or do you really need like the bed? I would
call it easy, okay, you know what I mean, Like
you could, but it's not easy. It would be more
idea because you have to get a little bit more
to get under.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
It's it's like you're kneeling and the dick is just
in your face. Hello, good morning Seattle. Right, ok, you
have to kind of get under and spread. It's a
little stand and finger.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Fingering, yes, which I saw it. That panel once said
that the lesbians at re speech in the seventies would
stand in a shopping bag and figure each other so
cops couldn't see under the door.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Exactly. That's easy. You can absolutely fin you're in a bog.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I want to talk about the connection between sex and comedy.
Michael Bowder explains, we feel guilty and ashamed of sex,
and so what jokes do is play on our guilt
and shame, make us laugh and enable us to enjoy sex.
It's a form of mastery. That's so interesting because in
(38:22):
this context, sex becomes something we fear, something we must tame,
and comedy jokes allow us to be in control over
the dominion of sex.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
No one said it, but sex is almost like stand
up the first time you do it. Yes, you're so
they're so much frame and you probably won't kill No,
you probably won't come.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
But when you get that first chuckle for the.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Audience, oh, there's nothing better.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It's the thumbs up and you say, I can keep going.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
And it's the building, and it's the building. Yes, But
let's talk about actual jokes during sex.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Hmm, okay, when you're doing the borsch belt routine in
the booder, I.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Think it's about right telling exact jokes. But I do
think it's so important to have a little bit of
humor and be able to laugh. Yeah, because also sometimes
things can get awkward, things can get weird.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
If I may be radically vulnerable for a second. I
actually think that I tend to laugh more on a
second sexual outing with a man, because the first time,
oh yeah, is almost a little it's like pretty performative.
(39:36):
I mean, you're so into the fact that like, oh,
we're in a hallway, like oh, the mayor d is
coming right.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I'm British. But then the.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Second time, I think can be more giggly. I think
as a relationship goes on and the oxytocin wanes, I
actually find you probably giggle less unless you're reacting to
something funny that's actually happening in real time, because you're
actual doing more fantasy work.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
See it's so funny. I find the opposite. I actually
find that the giggling is even more.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
You giggle more than ever at year eleven or fifteen.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, because I feel like more of Actually, yeah, those
first times are so like yeah, performative, interesting, not all
the time, but then like you know, sometimes it is
a little more giggly.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
See, I feel like the sex now this is now
nobody wants this like literally, see, I feel like the
sex with my rabbi now is it's like because we've
been in a relationship for a longer time. It's more like, Oh,
this is this is what I paid for, This is
why I subscribe to the sub stack.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
You know what I mean? No laughing aloud. It's more
like sometimes our laughter filled and sometimes are not. It
depends on the play session, if you will.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I guess, yes, it does depend on the play I'm
not thinking like a little chuckle. I'm thinking like big laughs.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, I guess I'm talking about more like little giggles.
Oh yeah, I mean little giggles are always we're talking
about this, Like who talk about hooping and hollering? Watching
Kim Katrell walk through Cyprus, I was screaming with laughter.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I mean the movie is like one of the
funniest movies I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
It's three ninety nine to round.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
And turning around and facing camera. She'll be like walking
away and like wearing just like a weird top with
like seven key holes in it, and then like turns
around and faces the camera and just like and what's
more interesting than sex with desire?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Can I ask you a question, do you think me
early more than parents? I actually, for me, I think
early media. Probably I watched define sexuality.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, I mean, of course, like movies completely defined sexuality.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Would you like to share and be vulnerable?
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I mean, like, what dominating my fantasy?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Or do you think what turned you on to something
that you didn't even know you were turned on by?
And you can be vague just named the film of
a situation interesting In music, you know, maybe the fast
paced techno of French electro, of daft punk. While driving?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I look back at like
Charlie's Angels too full Throttle and Justin Thireau and that
film and his abs, But I also think like those
are obvious things. It's like, oh, it's a guy with abs.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Well, it's so funny you mentioned Charlie's Angels because I
remember walking with you in the erotic town of Salem,
Massachusetts once at a field trip and you said to me,
Lucy Lou is so hot.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
That is interesting.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Fourteenth Yeah, and she is, for sure, she totally is.
And I was like, I think it was like, yes,
seeing girls.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Be dark, there's an anti social nest there a little
bit because like dark girl wants to be submissive because
it's like naughty.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yes, And then I think on the gay factor, it's like,
maybe the dark girl is most likely to kind of
be like be a lesbian, yeah, and not be fucking conventional.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Right, that's also true, and it's just like, yeah, it's
a flouting of convention in general.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
But then it's so virginal. But then in the opposite
it's you know, what's more attractive that the basic right
is the lacrosse player, the cheerleader who goes dark. It's funny.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Then I think, you know, I was so into you
and McGregor when we routines as well, and as I
came out as bisexual in ninth grade, I started to
really pursue a Uman McGregor crush with a plump and
for me, he was a man, but there was also
something a little bit gay and European about him, and
so he was there was an accessibility there that I
felt he was like a bridge to a sexuality I
(43:48):
could have. And I didn't yet know if I wanted
to be him or fuck him, but I was like
I could live in a world of europeanist one.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Day, yes, and I would like to bring up the
movie that I think of kind of an ironic route
for me, a life less Ordinary, which is Cameron Diaz
and you and McGregor, and it is kind of this
like sexy erotic European electronic music alternative mmm mm hm.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
And so once again you see your punk identity being
validated in the erotic narrative.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
It is ideas. And she is more a blonde you're saying,
I'm not, oh so she's no, But she's kind of
dark in that movie, a little more like Kimeron's is
always a guy's girl. It's a guys girl. It's kind
of like, what if I said this.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Do you see orgasm as freedom?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yes? I think she brings up in this book studies show.
You know, it's the only time in life, you know,
you're not trying to do this. Politics aren't being discussed
really let go.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
The French of course called Le putino, which means the
little death, and it is a death because it is
a release quite physically literally released. But also do we
lose our cells in create a space for something larger
as she argues, or is it just sensation? It's so
hard to say because it's like the one moment when
you really can't be thinking about something truly, except those
(45:13):
times though, when you know you're psyching yourself out, like
you're like, oh, like, don't think about my dad while
I'm coming, And then like because you're trying to not
think about it, then you're thinking about it, you know,
and then you're like running your fingers along in the
dry cleaning in your dad's closet and you're just like,
why am I here?
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Why am I here? And like you can't get out
of there. You're smelling his big socks. Run the marathon in.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
But other than that, I feel like that's.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Always more for pre but more during. Yeah, your lights
at don't think about that because that's such a thing
you're not supposed to think about during.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
It is just like total utter loss.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
Of what you're supposed to do in this I wonder
you know, we haven't discussed porn yet, but you know,
there's a lot being said today about how porn ruins fantasm,
and people both on the left and right under the
spectrum have said that porn is changing the way that
people view their own sexuality and their expectations from sexual partners,
(46:14):
their expectations of their own identity, creation and how they
see themselves.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
I'm wondering to what extent that's true. Obviously, I've been
looking at porn for most of my career.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
As a man.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
It's hard to say how much has influenced me or
not because I'm very into taboo, power dynamics and porn.
I think the stepfather, the stepfather, the military man. It's
like the boy scout leader and the truth, the.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Class of the teacher, the football.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Code, Like there's always something like that, and like the
more like difference the cop and the guy who's been
accused of shoplifting.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Like it's kind of like fast food everything in moderation.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Oh, in terms of porn not affecting you're but it's like,
but all those fantasies to me are kind of like.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
They're there before. Yeah, they're only they're there to kind
of help you come along. I don't mean to do
it in new ways.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
But I think the criticism would be that it's like
you're watching people like be so porny in the way
they move and interact with each other physically.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Right, they're saying that like porn ruins the way you're
having sex, because.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Then you're not being like curious and exploring with your
fingers and really inhaling someone's scent and their leather and
they're better and they're cinnamon and you're not like.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
They're pumpkins burying your.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Like plague nose and their cinematon.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
I know, I'm like, does Kim Katrell because.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
You're just like thinking about a porn just kind of
watching porn.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I feel like she's.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Watching porn in a way where she's like lighting candles
and watching like an eighties porn like with her love.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
No, I know, I think it's like candles. I almost
wonder if it's like seventies it's.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, it's definitely older porn. But she's like interested in
like a new directtion.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Right, this is a sweetish direction, right, it's a little
more erotic films like whatever I happened to NC seventeen
an erotic film for me? Yeah, that was the Doom
Generation Gregor Rocky erotic thriller. Yes, I was like seeing
things that, like I was like, I've never seen this before,
and she is more of the erotic film than like
(48:22):
with what she's been mareed three times but is now
single good for her? I know her last marriage was
to an audio technician.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Wow, I bet you know how to turn her mouth.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Because sound is also so huge.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Sound is really big because it's.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
About receiving the sound from your lover.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yes. Sound is because if they're just.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Silent, then it's.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Like hello, Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
I'm into both.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I'm into sound and visuals. But almost now i'm thinking
about it, I'm like, maybe I'm more into sound.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
I'm into both a loud lover and also like a
deadly silent lover.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Well, because that's erotic into its own. Yes, because it's
like I'm taking over you're just here.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
It creates more space for my sound.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
You're like the loud one. It's about you're the loud one,
and it's about kind of more. I think you're more like,
let me have more like the silent football coach, right,
so you can be Madison studies show segments how does
(49:33):
she live? What does she wear? What does she eat?
Are we doing that for? Or okay, what does she eat?
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Peaches, oyster, chocolate, pomeg cinnamon.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
You know what's actually such? I think an erotic, more
chemicatrolic erotic meal. In this way, it's so like cherry
cinnamon lamb chops.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Like something kind of like so the Sandra d used
to have the cooking show. If you said, there's like
someone who posts like unhinged recipes, and like there's one
where she's there just like it's chocolate cherry wine ribs.
And she's just always been like, I'm making a blueberry
sauce for my like a dobo like chocolate tacos.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
And that's very like I'm forty three, I'm divorced and
I'm seducing another forty five year old businessman. Yeah, and
the way to his stomach is cabernet. Yeah, and chocolate ribs.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
No, She's definitely like red meat, red fruit. I mean,
it's just that literalism of just like red being passion
and so I'm gonna eat red.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
I'm like, I don't think food for me, it's food.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Is so erotic.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
For you, You're red side. Food is erotic. But like
if we're talking about like what's kind of the most erotic,
it's being not fault I tell you that that's for me.
But of course, but the day food and making its full.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
There's nothing actually more food driven than lack of food,
because it's hunger. It's hunger itself, and it's hunger for
what is it hunger for pussy or is it hunger
for veal?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Parmegan It's then feel.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Like that's really Italian like lesbian sext toy line.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Feel now I got veal on the braid. Okay, so
Kim Katrell, It's champagne, it's chocolate covered strawberries, balsamac It's
Mediterranean style. Yeah, it's great, believes so many.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
It's anything that can be like fed to you while
you're reclining on a rock.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
What does she wear?
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Honestly, she should walk in a Couslado show.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Oh my god, Yeah, because she's like creative nitwear. Yeah,
it's off the shoulder, elbow patches and then slits on
the sleeve. But then also it's like I think she's
still just like body con leopard coat, stilettos, sweater.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Because she's pushing seventy and she looks amazing and she
is just kind of being like, I'm gonna do classic
power women's beltic stuff. Obviously, her character in The Sex
and the City dresses in this really loud.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Like business Patricia sex business.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
One where she's always wearing like a crazy pink suit
and like the animal prim send.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Like the belt. In her personal life, I.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Think she is like more sexy, but it's more coastal
because she grew up on Vancouver Island. It's always like
a little bit rocky, a little bit like.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
She's sitting actually looking over because she's cold beat and
I think she's wrapping her maybe nude body in a
huge cashmir blanket.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yes and throws yes, and like booties.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
She's not like very sneaker. I don't think no oh,
and I think she is stilettos and like stomping on
her audio. Guy, how does she live?
Speaker 1 (53:06):
She's definitely has framed photos of boundary bursting burlesque babes
like j Baker ships.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
On her wall and so May West quotes same. And
also I think it's like paintings of legs. Yeah, and
fallus sculptures. Its house so fabulous. It's sexy Buddha.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
And does she live in like Scotland, Toronto or.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
I think she's London, Okay, And so also she's pulling
out like ancient.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
She hates Carrie Bradshaw. She lives in London. So what
I like about this book is at the end there's
not even a note from her. There's just a note
from the publisher. The publisher would like to acknowledge with
enormous thanks the following people for their invaluable help on flagging, enthusiasm, generosity,
and grace during the making this book. Kim Ktrell, who
gave a this wonderful opportunity to work with her. They're
(54:02):
kind of being like, she didn't write it, but we
thank her for sort of for involvement in the book.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
And then this big quote, desire is like the sun,
It nurtures, it burns, it's heat irresistible. You're like, oh, okay, Waters,
I mean earth.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Desire is life is Freud said, everything is erotic. I
don't know if it's a direct quote, but it's basically
what his kind of thing was. And it's like, I
do think the lesson of the book is it's like
sexuality is in everything, and it informs everything we do,
and if you are not in touch with the living world,
in the world around you, your sex life is not.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Going to be satisfying exactly. I don't think it is
an on and off switch, and I think we need
to kind of throw these ideas of what turns a
man on what turns a woman on? It's really what
turns mom or Earth.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
On, yes, and what turns her off? Climate change?
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Thank you, so use plastics d growth. Now.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Also, let me just note the book was printed in Singapore.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
That makes sense. I feel like she like.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Had this idea and like told the documentary to HBO
and they're like, I mean, we can't say no because
like in the city is like such a big deal.
You can kind of do whatever you want. But like
we al should have a book to random and they
like went to random house and they were like.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
This is random, Okay, who are you in the book?
I mean, I think you're kind of aphrodity or I
was emerging from the sea. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
But you're also affro dating because you are such a
water book.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
No, I know, and I'm always coming out like both mean,
like what happened in there? I don't know. I give
this book well, I give the documentary film five to
five out of five fallacies. The book, the photography, the
(55:57):
visuals are amazing. Personally, I would like a lot more
personal information from Kim on like what turns her on,
but I respect her privacy. I guess at the end
of the.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Day, Yeah, it's pretty random, or even more about like
I don't know because the stories in the book it
is so general, it's just studies show. It could have
been more interesting. She was a little bit more like
when we were in Cyprus, like I saw this hot guy, yeah,
or like I talked to the Cypriot, like who has said.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Dating like this is? Like at first did laugh in the.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
Journey and I wish it were a little bit more
of a global survey of sexuality and a little less
just like study show.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
And then the five Toronto bisexuals that she go watch.
The movie branded on Apple TV do Yourself a Favor,
Okay best CEO. Stephen and Lily was produced by.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
One in four women in the Italian Peninsula who've never
had an orgasm.
Speaker 5 (57:01):
Darby Masters, supervising producer is a man in Toronto who's
dated many women at one time and lives to tell
the tale Aboo Zafar. It was also produced by the
Goddess herself, Christina Efron.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Our engineer was New York photographer Bahid Fraser, who's been
capturing glimpses of women's private parts since the early two
thousands in and around the New York City area.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Music actually is full of sex and thank god we
have a theme song by a sexy music producer known
as Stephen Phillipswurst.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
The concept for this podcast, which originally created by seminal
sexologist and podcast production company Prolog Projects. We're no longer
affiliated with them, but we wish them the best in
their erotic journey.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Find us and support our research on Patreon, dot com,
slash CBC the pod, and a huge thank you to
all of our lovers who have been leaving make five
Star Refuse. They make us feel very pleased.
Celebrity book Club.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hi, I'm Kim Katrell and I'm doing a documentary about
the sexual lives of Toronto residents. We're going to talk
to ten sexually active Greater Toronto residents about what turns
them on, what turns them off, and what makes them climax.
(00:34):
First up, Davis thirty four.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I like when a woman gets home from work.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Kira twenty nine. This thing happened to me when I
was twenty eight, where I only liked guys with broad shoulders.
Now I like guys with slender shoulders. I don't know
what happened, but it just gets me off. Shira thirty three.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I was with my last boyfriend for seven years when
I realized I'd never had an orgasm before. So I
went to the Chicago Art Institute and I brought my
favorite toy, a candlestick brass rested, and I did everything
(01:27):
that you can imagine right there in the impressionist room.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Tanya twenty two. I love early morning sex, especially with
a powerful man with an an even bigger espresso machine.
Poor Mia shot of Dick.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Cage twenty one. I don't think a big dick really
matters that much. I've never gotten complaints about my normal dick.
I think other guys dis are totally cool. When I'm
at the urinal, I look at them, or I don't
look because I don't think it really matters that much.
It's just a beautiful object.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Alan. I was with my wife for many years until
one day she dressed up as a man. I've never
been so hard in my life. Turns out I go
both ways. Judy twenty eight. I don't know what to
(02:32):
do with balls. Who's that knocking at the door. It's
all your friends. You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You've got books and a bottle of wine to kill.
It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm sure it's memoirs. Celebrity book Club. Read it while
it's hot. Celebrity book Club. Tell your secrets. We will
talk celebrity books.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
No boys are aloud, say it loud and pounds celet
book Clubs.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Spuzz me in. I brought the queer vow. Oh hey,
best friend, lover, coworker, acquaintance. Strange.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
How I am feeling really alive in my body today?
You know, my human body, which is one of the
most peculiar instruments on this earth, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's so interesting. It's full of nerves, full of hair,
full of different sensations. It's been studied, It's been studied
since three thousand BC.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Why is sex always ancient? Just always antiquity?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Like sex is always like in Roman times from the
bath they would feed on grapes and the phallacies were
open and played with.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Let's just get into it. So what did we read
this week?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
We read it with me Petrel.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Who you may know from Sex and the City as Samantha.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
The sexiest cast member.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And has a book and documentary.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that are kind of the same exact.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Their companion pieces.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Sold separately at Bs and Nobles and Borders. And her
book and documentary, Sexual Intelligence, which is very like two
thousand and six six and especially it's a glossy coffee
table book that is about.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Desire, desire, human sexuality and history and men and women bodies.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
The differences between their bodies and how the glitterist has
more nerves than any other part of the body. But
the fallas.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Is so interesting, so like half of the movie Slash Book,
it is just always going back to ancient Roman, ancient
times and ancient people's worshiped.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The fallous but afrodity. And the reason this book came
about is because she said, you know, playing Samantha, one
of the most famous sexual characters on television, people would
see her as the sexpert and come up to her
and tell her their randy stories. They're Samantha stories and
be like, oh my god, like you must be an expert,
(05:42):
a sexpert. Yes, And she was like, I was actually
embarrassed to say I'm not Samantha, Like I actually don't
have amazing sex every night, and I don't have the
craziest stories. So it inspired her.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
In a note from cam in the beginning of the book,
she goes, after the first two seasons sex and the
city people began coming up to me wanting to share
their own Samantha scenarios. This was flattering, but could sometimes
be embarrassing as well. People assume that I, like Samantha,
had always enjoyed fabulous sex, when in fact the opposite
(06:14):
was true, as is the case.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
For many women.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Sexual fulfillment came late with the publication of my first book, Satisfaction,
The Art of the Female Orgasm. I wanted to reach
out to women and men with the hope that what
I had eventually learned could work for them, and finding
my own fulfillment. And then she goes, I'm not a
sex expert or a therapist. Still the male and the
questions continued. It seems there remained so much more to
explore and learn. I decided to call this new project
(06:39):
sexual intelligence because I wanted to be just that, a
gathering of information and insights.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And is it a gathering of.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Okay, it's so many quotes from experts, and just like
studies show, study show, And in her book The History
of the Female.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It soys what's love got to do with it? Love,
in all its complexity and irrationality, has not always held
the value it does today. In the fascinating history Love
in the Ancient World, authors Christopher Miles and John Julius
Norwich tell us, for the ancients, love did not make
you better, It made you worse, like she's always like,
(07:18):
Quoting a different book about how the Romans had sex.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Psychology refers to Roy Baumeister suggests that women have more
erotic plasticity than men. Their sex trips are shaped more
by circumstances and by social and cultural forces. The common
suture recommends saffron, musk, and sandalwood as substances whose smell
blends with that of the woman and encourage your sexual exectation.
(07:44):
Even the Bible contributes the literature on fragrances and desires.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Okay, here's a little witclosure book. Here's a little quiz,
and everyone play along. In the Bible book book in
the Bible, what does she say are the aphrodisiac sense
that a man puts on a bed to lure his woman?
Was it what I just said? Is it saffron and musk?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wait? Is it like camel? It's like mr oh, okay,
cinnamon and aloe, which I'm like, hmm, I just like it.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Because cinnamon is so fall and it's so just like
mom apple pie.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well then I made this kind of crazy connection this yes,
thank you, thank you, because she says one of the
most deronic sens are like pumpkin and spice and cinnamon.
And we think, oh Christian girl, autumn, and why are
these girls so obsessed with their pumpkin lattes? And it's
actually because they're so turned on by it. But society
(08:50):
tells us a woman can't say, hey, honey, come home,
I'm a horny I'm baking pumpkin bread. She has to say, oh,
I love pumpkins because I love Hocus.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
It's always comes back to the madonnah or complex. But
I think this is actually so interesting because the classic
feminine sense are not actually the sense we ironically associate
with eroticism and desire.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's the quote.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Mascot little wood right, and like leather right in tobacco,
like alcohol with whiskey. It's like those are like sexier sense,
whereas like these traditional feminine ones are like kind of
associated with like either purity or matronliness. Yeah right, like
this Christianity who like the floralness. Yeah, it's either Christian
(09:35):
or it's you've already had kids. And now you smell
like a flower. You smell like an old flower. Your
vagina is sealed. You are no longer sexual department store.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
And I'm so glad we're talking about scent right now
because something happened to me so interesting today. I'm wearing
your lover's father's shirt right now.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Wow, talk about outles blical, biblical.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
And I was on the train week of Cinnamon. I
was on the train and I was like, what is
that smell? And I. I was looking around at men.
I was like, who smells kind of bad but manly
on on the train and I was looking around. I
was just kind of women with books and I was
like not adding up. And then I was in the bathroom.
(10:23):
And then I went into the bathroom, I said, the
smell is still with me, and I realized it was.
And it was this collection of.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Men journey in center of my boyfriend's father, me, my boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, your closet, Landlord Ridgewood all into one when researchers said.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
The Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago
conducted a study on the effects if any of fragrances
and sexual assle. They use floral sense and threw in
the smell of big Simon buns as a control. As
each hoop smelled each testcent, individual blood flow in men's
penises was measured using a small blood pressure cuff called
(11:11):
a follometer penis. To the research, to surprise, the sticky
buns raise their subjects blood flow more than any other scent.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So you see science proofs that is to fall. Yes,
because why do we call also fall couffing season?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Oh, because we all put our fallometers on.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
As we go to Cinnabon, we're getting our pumpkin is
beeping off the chiseling.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Mama VENTI, I'll have a venty and signed me. If
you know what I'm saying, you know the book and film,
I will say. The only difference is that in the
book Kim sorry Kittrell, So it's Katrell Trell, and I've
always said.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
It is very much spelled like Coatrol. She's in Liverpool, Darling,
and she grew up in British Columbia, in a small
town on Vancouver Island, which is not Vancouver. It's like
this island off the coast. It's like Vancouver is on
the mainland, and then this is a large island off
the car.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And she doesn't really have like a British accent. She
has this kind of Canadians.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Like a sexually international Canadian accent.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It's like a sex accent. It is. First of all,
she's also a sex therapist. She was born to write
this book.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
She's also ben forty one, like since nineteen seventy one,
because when you look at her in her like first roles,
she's already been this woman who's sexually wise beyond her years.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Right, and being like, well, I like it when.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I think partially because she has that like Cindy Crawford
mole that sometimes she's covering up, but sometimes she has
I think it's also like.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
The haircut, the bangs, her kind of huskier voice in
the documentary. And this bisexual person is also quoted in here,
so in.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
The Bye Girl the documentary who it looks like a
Parker Posy character Kissy. I'm talking y two k bisexual
Canadian name than Kisty.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
So they are all these like men and women who
are interviewed in the documentary and.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
All and just like the softest like micro silk play.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Microsal microfiber shirts, all have the craziest haircuts, but also
just such like barbell piercings in this way. Yeah, Like
the guys are very penis piercing.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I'm obsessed with the guy who's just like, if you
can get two women in bed with you, they've got
to be pretty dumb.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
They're like two and in bed. Sure, I'll take it, Okay.
They all kind of seem like lesbians, but then there's
this one lesbian who's actually.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
By Yeah, that was confusing, really, Pierre run with the piercing.
She was so butch. I was like, then when she's
were talking about men, I was like, mom.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Mus yeah, I was like what and she was like,
there's nothing like when a bulge is against fabric. And
she was like, I like it big. But then she
was like, nothing's better than when like a girl is
eating you out with a tongue ring, which is also
the most nineties thing. And I remember like when I
was first kind of coming into my own sexuality and
like hearing that being like, wait, I should get like
(14:23):
a tongue rings.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I know, tongue ring oral sex. It was so
also talked about like dude, have you ever gotten head
from a girl with a tongue ring?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yes? Fucking fucking crazy, Like you don't even know what
a blowjob is until you've experienced. First of all, no
one has tongue rings anymore. No one.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Everyone has a fucking nose ring. Everyone has the bull
piercing laurence.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Is that good for lingis?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well maybe if your nose is really buried in there.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Well, the nose is always good I think for punde lingus.
So you say it acts as a.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Phallus, what if you maybe did like kind of a
nasal attachment that was such a like rubbery.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Instead of like let me get my knob, like let
me get my strap, it's like let me get my
full like ebeny. It's kind of a medal play mask.
It's like the big like orse so knowlence costumes question, Stephen,
(15:24):
do you dress up in the bedroom? Erotic place is
so important? Studies show that in ancient times, I mean,
let's go back to the fig leave well.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
First of all, my favorite bird of the documentary is
at the very beginning, after the intro, which is completely insane,
cut to her standing in front of the Toronto skyline
and she just goes, let's talk about sex, and you're
just like, why Toronto, Why is this the capital of sex?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Why?
Speaker 3 (15:57):
There's no explanation because it's being like cities, because there
is a travel budget for the She's at some like
Scottish like land art that's made in like medieval times.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Has this huge like machiness Pallas.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
She goes to Cypress, to Aphrodite's beach, just to walk
out of the waves and be like Aphrodite.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
The original seductress. For generations we've been influenced. And then
it's very like such a like early film collage of
just like Hollyberry and Incomes of the Beach and Cyndy
Crawford and be like, where would we be without Afrodite.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Without the sirens and water which is so connected to sexuality.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And then she's in the rocks as like a random
guy is like.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Giving her an oyster that she's then slurpy because the
oyster represents feminism desiacs okay.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And then my other favorite part in her travel and
hears a quote of it when she happens upon like
a stone carving of a dick, and then she's like, oops,
Dallas is recarved into the pavement on street corners, set
in bricks on the outside walls of buildings and even
outfitted with little bronze bells called ttuliba and dangled over
(17:13):
doorways and entrance halls. Talk about having a lot of
balls in the air because it's like she's being like,
I'm not Samantha, but then this book will be filled
with like little Samantha sides being like now that's a fallows.
And then the most amazing photo she.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Is standing next to this like Scottish wind chime that's
like a massive metal dick with wings.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
It's like a dick whale that is winged and has
its own dick, an alerg dick, and is like held
by bells.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
So she talks about the decline of the fallis es
central to western art and how yes, and so in
ancient Greece and ancient Rome, the Fallas was like represented
like separately, and in Pompeii there's all these large dicks everywhere.
But then the phallas became like smaller in statues we
(18:07):
all know, like ancient statues had small dicks because it
was like a man having a big dick was like
too unreliable, because like there's such just a anthelion where
she's like, if a man has a big dick, you
can't trust you can't trust him.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And then she goes hmm hm.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
But then, like the Middle Ages and Christianity brought on
a lot of repression and the fig leaves and this
sort of fear of the disclosure of the phallas making love.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And she's like King Torontola or whatever like brought his daughter,
like the King of Naples, Oh yes, and then he
covered up all of the.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Art unwittingly brought his daughter along to tour artifacts excavated
from sites in Pompey. What he saw shocked and embarrassed him,
and he ordered that a room he set aside of
the National Archeological Museum of Naples for all offending wall paintings.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And and here we were as pagans, freely making love.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You know, it is true, obviously, it's like we think
about depictions of female nudity have been very common throughout
art for millennia. But then of course you look back
at Manet and Olympia and everyone was the context was
always very virginal with the women or it was like godly,
it was otherworldly. It was never like a real woman
showing her real pussy.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Spread, right, It's always kind of women resting, yes, or
women at war.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yes, or like women posing for the painting in the
way we understand she's just doing it. It's like anatomy, but.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They're not like being so like reverse cowgirl like certainly
not Statue of David.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
And that's why Olympia caused such a hullabloo at the
Salon in the eighteen eighties, because she was making eye
contact with the viewer and her like attendant was there.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And not just kind of this dazed eye. And then
you know, in the documentary, Shelter mentions what the Metropolitan
Museum of Art had an exhibit of Lucian Freud and
there was warnings, yes, saying content warning, trigger warning, there's nudity,
but yeah, there's nudity throughout the met Yes, but he
was this modern showing of sexuality.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Because nudity without sex is fine. And I think what's
interesting about Hiding the Pallas is it's almost we can
desexualize the vagina, but we like can't be sexualize a penis? Now,
why is that misogyny?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Misogyny exactly? And this book is also so classic nineties
early two thousand and away, where there's an amazing photo
of two speakers. One speaker says man, and there's one
switch and that's off on and off and on, and
then a woman's speaker is like knobs.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Because women are attracted to so many more things ideas and.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Power and brains, but also fear. But what I think
is interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Tightnancy about this book is that it would ultimately argue
the reverse as the documentary, which is that sexuality is
so complicated and we are all animated by fantasy. Wit
I love the insane like lesbian who's maybe not a
lesbian in the documentary, who's just like if people heard
my fantasies, they would put me in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Oh yes, you're like whoa, You're like, what are they?
This is the one who was like the tongue rang
one and.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
She looks just like a women's hockey coach.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Like she's like the bushes. Then like the one who
actually is a lesbian is like just the most like
nineties our bodies, our bodies, ourselves, like bad nineties haircut.
That is like lesbian bed death. It's real. But then
also it w was is surprising. She's the one that says,
I didn't even look at my vagina with a mirror
(21:43):
till two years ago.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I just watched that episode of Sex and the City
the other day.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
One of the most classic episodes of television of all time,
when Charlotte finally looks, and it's Samantha, of course, being like, honey,
you've never taken a mirror and looked down there and
see what's all the working parts? And Charlotte's like, why.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
No, Because it's also when her doctor tells her her
vagina's depressed.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Which is funny, kind of in the History of Sex
and the City two of those characters, because I think
Charlotte is the one that ends up being more kind
of sexually free and kinky.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Because she's so ltr and which she knows, as Samantha says,
Sorry Samantha, As Kim Katrell says in this book, oxytocin
can decrease between years two and three in a relationship,
and that's why divorces peak around year four worldwide seven
year itch more.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Like four year stretch.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Book Club.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Club.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
She's like, the seven year itch is when you've had
the chemicals like four year dip for three years too
long or whatever, which is you know, this.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Is interesting, let's talk about Let's talk about.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
The seven year itch and the four year X because I.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Remember this famous article in New York Times magazine that
was like about the search to find the female viagra.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Well, and she says that it's impossible because women have
so many knobs that like, it doesn't work on women,
and I can't just have blood rushing to the clit
and all of a sudden a woman's horning.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
But I do think there is something a little false
in that. I feel like studies have shown and not
totally where they were like, oh, no, you couldn't have
a female viagra, and they were like, you can lubricate
a woman, but she wouldn't necessarily be turned on, which
may be true. But I'm like, but also, aren't they interconnected,
(23:44):
because then it's like if a woman does take the
pill and then she does feel like she can be
more what, then maybe her mind will open to more
of these kind of fantasies.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I think part of it is so wrapped up in
the mythology of the biology of the woman.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Because a woman can't get hard, so the viagra can't.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Work well, yes, and because the vagina is a cave.
A cave is full of mystery. It's a dark space.
We don't know what's in there and we never will.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But it turned out a woman actually can get hard,
as studies have shown. Glitteris doesn't gorge. It doesn't gorge
when turned on.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
But I think because it is not as visibly obvious.
If a man is hard, he is visibly hard. But
if a woman's glitterist is visually engorged, you might need
you mean, some other note To an outside observer, it's
not immediately apparent, and that is why we will continue
to push the mythology that a woman's attraction is purely
(24:46):
mental and is purely spiritual and motivated by social concerns.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And you know, it's funny in this racle they say
a woman is actually more likely to feel before you're
itch to be like okay, you know, like because it
is not being like I know if you've had a
four year itch, so you're gonna collogize, right, And the
man is actually more fine with having the same old
sex with the same old woman, maybe over and out
(25:14):
year after year. And the woman actually needs a little
more excitement, a little more change, yes, and is not
gonna get turned on by Bill saying hey, han, what
about sex tonight?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yes, but I also think that that also just comes
back to like typical daynam And it's like, I think
the man is more fine with the same old, same
hold because he's been conditioned by society, by our review
of marriage, to view sex as something that like either
your wife gives you or she doesn't give you.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So it's like, if you're getting it, be happy, Yeah,
like dude, you should be happy do this. Yeah, Oh
you're getting your poll wet.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So it becomes this thing where it becomes Low's comm denominator,
and it's just like, well, then all he has about
is getting his pole wet. But in reality, the man
does have deeper fantasies that probably not being explored because
he's also like, it'd be really faggoty to explore a fantasy.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Where he's like, oh, well, I couldn't like tell you
what I wanted this right, And this is why it
goes back to community communication, which is so important in
a sexual dynamic, even when you're fetish just not communicating.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
How much would you say your father has influenced your type?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, this whole book is very just like kissing, and
your attraction is so influenced by like breastfeeding and your parents' sexuality.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Wait, I love the way that page you were just
on ninety one. Yeah, this image of her holding a swan.
She's wearing a bedazzled bikini.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Kind of like and the Mermaids, And there's just.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
A large pol quote that says, how many people have
been baffled by a domination fantasy? What about imagining we
are the opposite sex and that.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
It's a photo of which is also so sex And
the city Samantha in like a business suit.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Oh wait, yeah, but she's also doing like a Charlie's Angels,
blowing out a finger gun. And then the other one
of her in the clouds is her holding a writing crop.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And then okay, the poll quote under the swan is
and some fantasies are well just playing odd creating them.
What's funny?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Sex in this City is so obviously the most important
Joe of all time. But I've been watching like season
four and there's all these like moments when everyone's like
freaked out. I mean, like Carrie's kind of like she's
she's always read out. She s freaked out with a
guy wh wants to piss on her. They're always like ew, Samantha, no,
like that's not cool, and like Samantha's freaked up the
(27:38):
baby talk guy.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Then Miranda is freaked out by the guy who like
goes down on her and then is like goes to
kiss her, and she's like, are you kidding me? A napkin,
I'm all over.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I'm like when Samantha is a lesbian for two episodes
and they're all just like, whoa, please stop saying the
word vagina. It's not cool.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, I don't want to hear that.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It's also because Miranda's so freaked out and you can't
understand it, Like she's wearing like six turtlenecks and she's
just like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And then it's when Charlotte has anal and they're like
what but he's your husband, and Charlotte's like, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Here's a question I have for you, Lily. Do you
think you have a type?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I was actually thinking about that so much during this book,
And you know, on one hand, I do think I do,
and then the other I actually don't think I do.
I know some would say, what's you have? I think
some would say, you know, I like a blonde. What
do you think that comes from? You know, does it
(28:45):
come from the rejection of my brunettess or is it
the creation of this kind of you know, stereotypical male sexuality.
It's about my desire to be this American blooded man
with the poor event and a blonde and fulfilling that fantasy. Yes,
my persona even more than the blonde. Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I think that's one hundred percent true. And I think
our own sexual identity is so wrapped up in our
fantasy of another person.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
What do you think is your type. Well, I think
I do have this type. I think you have a
few types of a couple types, and I think everyone does.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yes, some would say a few hundred times hello.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Oh honey, my type it's allid Toronto.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Does he live in Toronto? Does he have a pulse?
But I think you know certainly that the types of
men that I've dated in long term relationships, they are
all these kind of like very American men if you
were so hot, Like they're kind of these all American types.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yet so funny because you're always desiring this kind of
franco file.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yes, and I think my fantasy is so much more
Mediterranean and it is like the guy who's serving her
oways on a rock in Cypress. But then I always
end up dating these like super kind of like the
baseball archetype, the lacrosse archetype. Like you know, there's the
art bro, or there's the midwestern guy, like the colorade
of the western Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
But there's these kind of different states.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yes, but they all have this kind of like semi
rural masculinity to all of them.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
No, And I think of the gay guy version of
that is like to be this girl, yes, right, yes,
and to want this guy because then I look like
you can change a tire.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yes, And so my kind of like desire to be
like a girl name let's call her Madison.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Maybe her name is Madison. Maybe she grew up in
suburban Toronto, went to a really good school, had a
really good family, shot really good grades, wants to be
a writer.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And it's funny because I've only really really traversed the
fantasy of like the European. I mean, I lost some
virginity to a British guy. My first boyfriend was British.
But then after that, Yeah, it's semi rural. Yeah, Western
mass Colorado, northern Washington, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
My type is northern Washington.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
So this like Toronto, which all makes me the Madison ultimately.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah. But then at the end of the day, I'm like,
what is my type? I think my type is a
mischievous smile. My type is a certain type of humor.
Maybe a little bit of bossiness in the streets, but
not bossy in the apartment. Not bossy in the apartment.
Now do you think your mother's breastfeeding influenced your sexuality? Oh?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Of course she had very large nipples, which is why
I desire a small one.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
It's because in ancient times.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
As a rejection of the feminine.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Right, the tinier the nipple, yes, the more you were attracted.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Nipples of course, were very tiny in Western art for
centuries until they started to gain prominence as a rejection
of the female form.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
There's a guy that's interviewed in this book who says
one of his turn ons is a woman who's really
good at martial arts. Now, that's what I'm saying. The
man's attraction is towards the brain. You know, it's like, yes,
maybe he has mourning wood, but a man who likes
martial arts, that's saying something.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Do you think it's just like because there's all sorts
of like a cultural fetishes that could come into play
there where he's associating martial arts with you know, a
badass woman, a woman, you know, like a dominant woman,
a woman of asia possibly yes, a woman of wearing robes,
which also has sexual connotations. And then the sword as
(32:41):
fallis and so maybe there's also like a latent homosexual attraction.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Right, I would say, like the martial arts, the desire
of domination is the most ereotypical thing is you know,
the businessman who wants to get walked on by stilettos. Now,
the word stiletto, the trial first says, came up in
America in the fifties and it's a long heeled shoe.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Aphdity means sea foam, as Aphrodity did emerge from the
waves of the Mediterranean and that's why women are so
assoctutid water. And then it's like the documentary cut to
that random woman just being like, oh, water is so
sexual to me.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I find the shower very erotic. Oh yeah, okay, like
I would say, like the more like basic woman that's
interviewed is this woman who says she's attracted to artsy guys,
but then she describes the guys she's attracted to, and
it's like, okay, everyone, She's like, I'm actually attracted to
really tall guys. Yeah, oh yeah, with really broad shoulders.
(33:45):
She's like, here's the thing. If they're tall without bron shoulders,
then I don't like them. Dark eyes, dark hair, curly,
dark hair. And then she's like, yeah, why do I
have these fantasies of having sex in water?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
And it's just it's like tall, dark and handsome, like
Guyana Beach it's.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Like, yeah, that's fantasy. And then all these just like
a nerdy dad scientists who have all written books called
arousal are interviewed, and this one, like dad arousal expert,
is like, you know, actually, when people have fantasies of
having sex and nature, it's actually that they want to
be free from the chaine of society. Yes, maybe they
(34:23):
want to be caught. Some people want to be caught
some people don't.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Have you ever had sex in nature?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
No? Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Maybe before you're forty.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It's not something I necessarily you.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Don't fantasize about. The liberation desire.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It's more sex in yes, other places, but I wouldn't
call it the other places nature that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I've had to them as like friends, parents, guests, rooms.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You know, kind of more the American car, Yes, the
European nightclub.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Which is another side of masculinity, yes, American car. I mean,
I think obviously game al culture is really very nature,
very nature focused for cruising reasons, for social reasons, and
then I think obviously that is bound up in social
ideas of liberation, and so I think that the social
aspect of is interesting. But I do wonder about the
(35:17):
bye of physical relationship with nature, with feeling with dirt,
with bark, with sand, with water, and what that does
to eras well.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It also if we go back to the phallus in
the game and culture say, oh, you know the beach.
To me, who was born with the anatomy of more
of the labia minor, you know, the sex and the beach,
it seems, oh, what's going to get inside? It's getting
a little more shaped, it's getting a little more exfoliated.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yes, no, And I think that obviously anatomy wise there
is more room to experiment. Of course, men are always
pissed on trees, and then that has its whole like
the sexual markers of domination and territoriality like coming to
play there. But I actually wonder if there is in
nature itself. We were talking about mother nature, right, I'll
(36:14):
admit I've had sex in a bog before, and I
think that a different bod a different.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Okay, not the bobo. Just wanted to make things clear here.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
But it has a very mossy, spongy texture that is
in some ways very feminine, right it almost I wonder
if it is like men who were in the vision. Yes,
it is a return to the womb that we crave.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You're breastfeeding essential and you're saying, oh, we're here, but
mother is watching, and mother is saying it's okay. Well,
and it goes back to the brain thing. And you know,
to quote Christian Cavaleria, the question always is, you know.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Sexual expert Kristin Cavaleri, and she.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Was like, what would I do if I had a
parade where I would like jerk off all day long?
Then I would piss? And I do think in that
way like sex outside would be easier with the foulus.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Absolutely and oral of course, although isn't oral easy anywhere
for a woman?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Or do you really need like the bed? I would
call it easy, okay, you know what I mean, Like
you could, but it's not easy. It would be more
idea because you have to get a little bit more
to get under.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
You know.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
It's it's like you're kneeling and the dick is just
in your face. Hello, good morning Seattle. Right, ok, you
have to kind of get under and spread. It's a
little stand and finger.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Fingering, yes, which I saw it. That panel once said
that the lesbians at re speech in the seventies would
stand in a shopping bag and figure each other so
cops couldn't see under the door.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Exactly. That's easy. You can absolutely fin you're in a bog.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I want to talk about the connection between sex and comedy.
Michael Bowder explains, we feel guilty and ashamed of sex,
and so what jokes do is play on our guilt
and shame, make us laugh and enable us to enjoy sex.
It's a form of mastery. That's so interesting because in
(38:22):
this context, sex becomes something we fear, something we must tame,
and comedy jokes allow us to be in control over
the dominion of sex.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
No one said it, but sex is almost like stand
up the first time you do it. Yes, you're so
they're so much frame and you probably won't kill No,
you probably won't come.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
But when you get that first chuckle for the.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Audience, oh, there's nothing better.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It's the thumbs up and you say, I can keep going.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
And it's the building, and it's the building. Yes, But
let's talk about actual jokes during sex.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Hmm, okay, when you're doing the borsch belt routine in
the booder, I.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Think it's about right telling exact jokes. But I do
think it's so important to have a little bit of
humor and be able to laugh. Yeah, because also sometimes
things can get awkward, things can get weird.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
If I may be radically vulnerable for a second. I
actually think that I tend to laugh more on a
second sexual outing with a man, because the first time,
oh yeah, is almost a little it's like pretty performative.
(39:36):
I mean, you're so into the fact that like, oh,
we're in a hallway, like oh, the mayor d is
coming right.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I'm British. But then the.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Second time, I think can be more giggly. I think
as a relationship goes on and the oxytocin wanes, I
actually find you probably giggle less unless you're reacting to
something funny that's actually happening in real time, because you're
actual doing more fantasy work.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
See it's so funny. I find the opposite. I actually
find that the giggling is even more.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
You giggle more than ever at year eleven or fifteen.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, because I feel like more of Actually, yeah, those
first times are so like yeah, performative, interesting, not all
the time, but then like you know, sometimes it is
a little more giggly.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
See, I feel like the sex now this is now
nobody wants this like literally, see, I feel like the
sex with my rabbi now is it's like because we've
been in a relationship for a longer time. It's more like, Oh,
this is this is what I paid for, This is
why I subscribe to the sub stack.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
You know what I mean? No laughing aloud. It's more
like sometimes our laughter filled and sometimes are not. It
depends on the play session, if you will.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I guess, yes, it does depend on the play I'm
not thinking like a little chuckle. I'm thinking like big laughs.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, I guess I'm talking about more like little giggles.
Oh yeah, I mean little giggles are always we're talking
about this, Like who talk about hooping and hollering? Watching
Kim Katrell walk through Cyprus, I was screaming with laughter.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I mean the movie is like one of the
funniest movies I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
It's three ninety nine to round.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
And turning around and facing camera. She'll be like walking
away and like wearing just like a weird top with
like seven key holes in it, and then like turns
around and faces the camera and just like and what's
more interesting than sex with desire?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Can I ask you a question, do you think me
early more than parents? I actually, for me, I think
early media. Probably I watched define sexuality.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, I mean, of course, like movies completely defined sexuality.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Would you like to share and be vulnerable?
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I mean, like, what dominating my fantasy?
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Or do you think what turned you on to something
that you didn't even know you were turned on by?
And you can be vague just named the film of
a situation interesting In music, you know, maybe the fast
paced techno of French electro, of daft punk. While driving?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I look back at like
Charlie's Angels too full Throttle and Justin Thireau and that
film and his abs, But I also think like those
are obvious things. It's like, oh, it's a guy with abs.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Well, it's so funny you mentioned Charlie's Angels because I
remember walking with you in the erotic town of Salem,
Massachusetts once at a field trip and you said to me,
Lucy Lou is so hot.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
That is interesting.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Fourteenth Yeah, and she is, for sure, she totally is.
And I was like, I think it was like, yes,
seeing girls.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Be dark, there's an anti social nest there a little
bit because like dark girl wants to be submissive because
it's like naughty.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yes, And then I think on the gay factor, it's like,
maybe the dark girl is most likely to kind of
be like be a lesbian, yeah, and not be fucking conventional.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Right, that's also true, and it's just like, yeah, it's
a flouting of convention in general.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
But then it's so virginal. But then in the opposite
it's you know, what's more attractive that the basic right
is the lacrosse player, the cheerleader who goes dark. It's funny.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Then I think, you know, I was so into you
and McGregor when we routines as well, and as I
came out as bisexual in ninth grade, I started to
really pursue a Uman McGregor crush with a plump and
for me, he was a man, but there was also
something a little bit gay and European about him, and
so he was there was an accessibility there that I
felt he was like a bridge to a sexuality I
(43:48):
could have. And I didn't yet know if I wanted
to be him or fuck him, but I was like
I could live in a world of europeanist one.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Day, yes, and I would like to bring up the
movie that I think of kind of an ironic route
for me, a life less Ordinary, which is Cameron Diaz
and you and McGregor, and it is kind of this
like sexy erotic European electronic music alternative mmm mm hm.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
And so once again you see your punk identity being
validated in the erotic narrative.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
It is ideas. And she is more a blonde you're saying,
I'm not, oh so she's no, But she's kind of
dark in that movie, a little more like Kimeron's is
always a guy's girl. It's a guys girl. It's kind
of like, what if I said this.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Do you see orgasm as freedom?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yes? I think she brings up in this book studies show.
You know, it's the only time in life, you know,
you're not trying to do this. Politics aren't being discussed
really let go.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
The French of course called Le putino, which means the
little death, and it is a death because it is
a release quite physically literally released. But also do we
lose our cells in create a space for something larger
as she argues, or is it just sensation? It's so
hard to say because it's like the one moment when
you really can't be thinking about something truly, except those
(45:13):
times though, when you know you're psyching yourself out, like
you're like, oh, like, don't think about my dad while
I'm coming, And then like because you're trying to not
think about it, then you're thinking about it, you know,
and then you're like running your fingers along in the
dry cleaning in your dad's closet and you're just like,
why am I here?
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Why am I here? And like you can't get out
of there. You're smelling his big socks. Run the marathon in.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
But other than that, I feel like that's.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Always more for pre but more during. Yeah, your lights
at don't think about that because that's such a thing
you're not supposed to think about during.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
It is just like total utter loss.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
Of what you're supposed to do in this I wonder
you know, we haven't discussed porn yet, but you know,
there's a lot being said today about how porn ruins fantasm,
and people both on the left and right under the
spectrum have said that porn is changing the way that
people view their own sexuality and their expectations from sexual partners,
(46:14):
their expectations of their own identity, creation and how they
see themselves.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
I'm wondering to what extent that's true. Obviously, I've been
looking at porn for most of my career.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
As a man.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
It's hard to say how much has influenced me or
not because I'm very into taboo, power dynamics and porn.
I think the stepfather, the stepfather, the military man. It's
like the boy scout leader and the truth, the.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Class of the teacher, the football.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Code, Like there's always something like that, and like the
more like difference the cop and the guy who's been
accused of shoplifting.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Like it's kind of like fast food everything in moderation.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Oh, in terms of porn not affecting you're but it's like,
but all those fantasies to me are kind of like.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
They're there before. Yeah, they're only they're there to kind
of help you come along. I don't mean to do
it in new ways.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
But I think the criticism would be that it's like
you're watching people like be so porny in the way
they move and interact with each other physically.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Right, they're saying that like porn ruins the way you're
having sex, because.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Then you're not being like curious and exploring with your
fingers and really inhaling someone's scent and their leather and
they're better and they're cinnamon and you're not like.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
They're pumpkins burying your.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Like plague nose and their cinematon.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
I know, I'm like, does Kim Katrell because.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
You're just like thinking about a porn just kind of
watching porn.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
I feel like she's.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Watching porn in a way where she's like lighting candles
and watching like an eighties porn like with her love.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
No, I know, I think it's like candles. I almost
wonder if it's like seventies it's.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, it's definitely older porn. But she's like interested in
like a new directtion.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Right, this is a sweetish direction, right, it's a little
more erotic films like whatever I happened to NC seventeen
an erotic film for me? Yeah, that was the Doom
Generation Gregor Rocky erotic thriller. Yes, I was like seeing
things that, like I was like, I've never seen this before,
and she is more of the erotic film than like
(48:22):
with what she's been mareed three times but is now
single good for her? I know her last marriage was
to an audio technician.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Wow, I bet you know how to turn her mouth.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Because sound is also so huge.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Sound is really big because it's.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
About receiving the sound from your lover.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yes. Sound is because if they're just.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Silent, then it's.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Like hello, Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
I'm into both.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I'm into sound and visuals. But almost now i'm thinking
about it, I'm like, maybe I'm more into sound.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
I'm into both a loud lover and also like a
deadly silent lover.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Well, because that's erotic into its own. Yes, because it's
like I'm taking over you're just here.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
It creates more space for my sound.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
You're like the loud one. It's about you're the loud one,
and it's about kind of more. I think you're more like,
let me have more like the silent football coach, right,
so you can be Madison studies show segments how does
(49:33):
she live? What does she wear? What does she eat?
Are we doing that for? Or okay, what does she eat?
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Peaches, oyster, chocolate, pomeg cinnamon.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
You know what's actually such? I think an erotic, more
chemicatrolic erotic meal. In this way, it's so like cherry
cinnamon lamb chops.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Like something kind of like so the Sandra d used
to have the cooking show. If you said, there's like
someone who posts like unhinged recipes, and like there's one
where she's there just like it's chocolate cherry wine ribs.
And she's just always been like, I'm making a blueberry
sauce for my like a dobo like chocolate tacos.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
And that's very like I'm forty three, I'm divorced and
I'm seducing another forty five year old businessman. Yeah, and
the way to his stomach is cabernet. Yeah, and chocolate ribs.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
No, She's definitely like red meat, red fruit. I mean,
it's just that literalism of just like red being passion
and so I'm gonna eat red.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
I'm like, I don't think food for me, it's food.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Is so erotic.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
For you, You're red side. Food is erotic. But like
if we're talking about like what's kind of the most erotic,
it's being not fault I tell you that that's for me.
But of course, but the day food and making its full.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
There's nothing actually more food driven than lack of food,
because it's hunger. It's hunger itself, and it's hunger for
what is it hunger for pussy or is it hunger
for veal?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Parmegan It's then feel.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Like that's really Italian like lesbian sext toy line.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Feel now I got veal on the braid. Okay, so
Kim Katrell, It's champagne, it's chocolate covered strawberries, balsamac It's
Mediterranean style. Yeah, it's great, believes so many.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
It's anything that can be like fed to you while
you're reclining on a rock.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
What does she wear?
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Honestly, she should walk in a Couslado show.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Oh my god, Yeah, because she's like creative nitwear. Yeah,
it's off the shoulder, elbow patches and then slits on
the sleeve. But then also it's like I think she's
still just like body con leopard coat, stilettos, sweater.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Because she's pushing seventy and she looks amazing and she
is just kind of being like, I'm gonna do classic
power women's beltic stuff. Obviously, her character in The Sex
and the City dresses in this really loud.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Like business Patricia sex business.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
One where she's always wearing like a crazy pink suit
and like the animal prim send.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Like the belt. In her personal life, I.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Think she is like more sexy, but it's more coastal
because she grew up on Vancouver Island. It's always like
a little bit rocky, a little bit like.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
She's sitting actually looking over because she's cold beat and
I think she's wrapping her maybe nude body in a
huge cashmir blanket.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yes and throws yes, and like booties.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
She's not like very sneaker. I don't think no oh,
and I think she is stilettos and like stomping on
her audio. Guy, how does she live?
Speaker 1 (53:06):
She's definitely has framed photos of boundary bursting burlesque babes
like j Baker ships.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
On her wall and so May West quotes same. And
also I think it's like paintings of legs. Yeah, and
fallus sculptures. Its house so fabulous. It's sexy Buddha.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
And does she live in like Scotland, Toronto or.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
I think she's London, Okay, And so also she's pulling
out like ancient.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
She hates Carrie Bradshaw. She lives in London. So what
I like about this book is at the end there's
not even a note from her. There's just a note
from the publisher. The publisher would like to acknowledge with
enormous thanks the following people for their invaluable help on flagging, enthusiasm, generosity,
and grace during the making this book. Kim Ktrell, who
gave a this wonderful opportunity to work with her. They're
(54:02):
kind of being like, she didn't write it, but we
thank her for sort of for involvement in the book.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
And then this big quote, desire is like the sun,
It nurtures, it burns, it's heat irresistible. You're like, oh, okay, Waters,
I mean earth.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Desire is life is Freud said, everything is erotic. I
don't know if it's a direct quote, but it's basically
what his kind of thing was. And it's like, I
do think the lesson of the book is it's like
sexuality is in everything, and it informs everything we do,
and if you are not in touch with the living world,
in the world around you, your sex life is not.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Going to be satisfying exactly. I don't think it is
an on and off switch, and I think we need
to kind of throw these ideas of what turns a
man on what turns a woman on? It's really what
turns mom or Earth.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
On, yes, and what turns her off? Climate change?
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Thank you, so use plastics d growth. Now.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Also, let me just note the book was printed in Singapore.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
That makes sense. I feel like she like.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Had this idea and like told the documentary to HBO
and they're like, I mean, we can't say no because
like in the city is like such a big deal.
You can kind of do whatever you want. But like
we al should have a book to random and they
like went to random house and they were like.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
This is random, Okay, who are you in the book?
I mean, I think you're kind of aphrodity or I
was emerging from the sea. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
But you're also affro dating because you are such a
water book.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
No, I know, and I'm always coming out like both mean,
like what happened in there? I don't know. I give
this book well, I give the documentary film five to
five out of five fallacies. The book, the photography, the
(55:57):
visuals are amazing. Personally, I would like a lot more
personal information from Kim on like what turns her on,
but I respect her privacy. I guess at the end
of the.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
Day, Yeah, it's pretty random, or even more about like
I don't know because the stories in the book it
is so general, it's just studies show. It could have
been more interesting. She was a little bit more like
when we were in Cyprus, like I saw this hot guy, yeah,
or like I talked to the Cypriot, like who has said.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Dating like this is? Like at first did laugh in the.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
Journey and I wish it were a little bit more
of a global survey of sexuality and a little less
just like study show.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
And then the five Toronto bisexuals that she go watch.
The movie branded on Apple TV do Yourself a Favor,
Okay best CEO. Stephen and Lily was produced by.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
One in four women in the Italian Peninsula who've never
had an orgasm.
Speaker 5 (57:01):
Darby Masters, supervising producer is a man in Toronto who's
dated many women at one time and lives to tell
the tale Aboo Zafar. It was also produced by the
Goddess herself, Christina Efron.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Our engineer was New York photographer Bahid Fraser, who's been
capturing glimpses of women's private parts since the early two
thousands in and around the New York City area.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Music actually is full of sex and thank god we
have a theme song by a sexy music producer known
as Stephen Phillipswurst.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
The concept for this podcast, which originally created by seminal
sexologist and podcast production company Prolog Projects. We're no longer
affiliated with them, but we wish them the best in
their erotic journey.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Find us and support our research on Patreon, dot com,
slash CBC the pod, and a huge thank you to
all of our lovers who have been leaving make five
Star Refuse. They make us feel very pleased.
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