Steve "The Woz" Wozniak

<br>INPUT (prompt), var1, var2!</br> This week we read Apple computer inventor/Kathy Griffin's ex-boyfriend's memoir "iWoz: Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It." We create a code in order to discuss the evolution of Mac, insane tension between Woz and Steve Jobs, early Silicon Valley, scam-ass printers, how we used to fix our own TVs, Freemasons, and ask the ultimate question: does technology really help us or has it gone too far?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends.
You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and we've got books
and a bottle of wine to kill. It's Hollywood, it's books,
it's gossip. I'm sure it's memoir. It's Martini.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Celebrity poof Club. To read it while it's hot. Celebrity
poof Club, Tell your secrets.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
We won't talk celebrity books. No boys are a loud
Celet say it loud and cloud Celebrity book Club.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Buzz me in. I brought the queer vow.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hey, hey, best friend, how are you on this beautiful
Thanksgiving week here in the United States of America?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Oh, all salute to that? You know what all salute
to today is blackout Wednesday. It's the fucking drunkest day
of the year when you go to the bath with
all your old friends and see all the exes, the
girls you never got with, and you do shots and.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, so to all of you out there seeing the
one that got away who's now totally old and fat,
and you're feeling awesome because you're fanning. You have an
amazing career.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, and you're coming on to your small town that's
actually like quaint and beautiful but still has like an
iconic rough dive bar. And you walk in you're in
a big cowl neck sweater.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
And then there's that guy that you always overlooked in
high school because like he was a genera, but like
now he runs like a local business that's like masculine
but artisanal, that's just like large scaled landscaping and like
urban design for just like progressive city parks.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Wait, yes, this works because it's like your parents are like, oh, Liz,
that's your name. We're thinking of like redoing instead of
doing the normal you know, roses and gourds that we
normally do, we're gonna put in a sustainable rock garden.
And then he comes over to do your parents yard
and you're like Chris.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Right, And then you're like, wait a minute, you were
the kind of dorky guy I ignored at the bar
reunion last night, Like you actually have this like really
interesting sustainable business that's local.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
And he brings you a coffee because you're so hungover,
and it's like a maple coffee from your best friend
who did stay home and open a second wave, third
fourth wave maple. So if third wave coffee is like
cold brew minimal lattes.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
With like succulents. Yeah, and then like and then what.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
I'm calling fourth wave and you may come for me
is like suburbanification of third wave. So they like are
taking the lattenus but then are making it like electric
caffeinated Macha purple syrup.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
You're saying that it's getting like Christian Girl Autumn and
like cheesier and more live left love. It's the live
last love of vacation of third wave. Yeah, Okay, I'm
gonna agree with you, but I think it's almost a
devolution more than evolution, and it's just more like the
kind of everything congealing into the same mass market slop

(03:07):
where it's just like becoming this slightly Amazon prime aesthetic
where it's like there is a geodesic planter with a
succulent and also like a live laugh.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Love signed together.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
It almost reminds me of how Apple computers used to
be so cool and inventive, and now we all have
the same Apple Watch that we don't even know how
to use.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Right wow, mail on that had Mama, thank you for
bringing that app. You know, I read actually a lot
about that in this book that I happened to read
this morning and finish. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Wow are you talking about the three hundred page memoir
by Say It with Me?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Steve was Niak also known as was at his amazing book,
I was computer geek to cult icon, how.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
I invented the personal computer.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Co founded Apple and had fun doing it. There's an
awesome photo on the cover of him playing the Apple
to computer like a guitar. Wait, oh, wait, I have
a totally different cover. Oh you have the kind of
third wave cover.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
It says like I in an Apple way WAWS and
then it's like the Apple colors of the.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Apple rainbow on the side. Yours is very like post iPhone,
like tech space, you know, when Apples started embracing this
kind of like minimalist space.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
As I said, remember what Apple is. Wait, and yours
is like him being so kooky.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Mine is definitely more first wave. Mine is more central perk.
So it's this black and white photo of him looking
not like your father.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Lily, Oh my god, No, I was the similarities between
WAWS and like I mean, I think my dad was
just like a tech head and was always buying like
the new technology that failed, and this kind of like
I'm a nerdy kid and like all I want to
do is like reprogram like this Ham radio. Like, my

(05:02):
dad made a censor in his nineteen fifties home so
that he would know when his like father was like
coming to his room.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Really so he would stop masturbating depictures of old movie stars.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
No, I feel like he was reading Archie comics by
like a small light and was like, uh oh, the
sensor went off, Dada is coming.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I actually once did that because I had gotten some
toy for Christmas that was like a weird robot that
like was sensor activated, and at some point I was
grounded for some reason. God knows what I'd done, you rasped,
But I wasn't allowed to play video games, which was
actually so rude, And so I set up this motion
sensor robot in the hallway so I would know when

(05:46):
my mom was coming into the like kitchen where the
wow was. So when I heard it like go off,
I would then like hide the controller and like run
and hide around the corner. She came in, and she
had no idea that I was secretly playing video games
all afternoon. Wait, wow, I know, so whah I was
really was.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
But do you think she also like knew but was
kind of being like, haha, let you have this like.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Weird like she depended on because one time I wasn't
fastened or whatever, and then she was like so disappointed,
and I was kind of like, bitch, like you got played. Sorry,
I'm not gonna feel fucking guilty.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
We also, do you just like hiding with your like
control being like.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Mah, yeah, I'm so pinking the brain.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
No, which is so was And if you guys are
more kind of familiar with Steve.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Jobs, yeah, then get a fucking clue. There was another
man at the helm of Apple pouring secret ingredients into
that brew, that cauldron that became the world's first trillion
dollar company.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Apple was was like, and is he's alive? He is
like this shorter, kookier, nerdier, like furrier, just like guy
who basically him and Steve met. They went to the
same high school in California.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Even though was five years older and was already graduated
by the time he met Steve Jobs, and then was
just kind of hanging out with this high school student.
But he was like so autistic and nerdy and virginal
that it wasn't weird because like he was basically like
emotionally still like a high school student.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, so this book is like so cute and also
just like completely insane. It was just like all about
ram but like it's really written by a true nerd.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
It is the most like positive hunky dory book. It's
ky running with Elvira's book where I was just like girl,
like wipe the fucking grin off your face for two seconds.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
But even like stukier because even when in this book
he's like kind of talking about like the drama between
him and Steve Jobs, like he's just being like, well,
like sure Steve did actually hide from me that he
got a couple more thousand dollars for our first video game. Sure,
I was mad, but I moved on and we both

(07:59):
made a lot of money later.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
That was super shady of Steve Jobs. He references, you know,
the differences in their personalities like a few times, but
he's pretty coy about it. It's pretty subtle, pretty diplomatic.
He's like really not trying to like make waves, but
if you weep between the lines, yeah there is.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
But just to give you a little bit of background,
like WA was was from California what we now call
Menlo Park, which is the heart of Silicon Valley. Baby,
it is.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
So funny that it's like these guys were actually like
from there, literally from It's not like people came from
the world to like go to California because like, oh well,
like Stanford is there, like cal Tech. It's like he
grew up in Silicon Valley, like Steve jobs al super
Pysilicon Valley, Like they just happened to be there. And
his dad, although I guess it's also like dad thing.
I don't know who Steve jobsad would, but Waz's dad

(08:49):
was an engineer and so like got him into like
programming in radios and like tech and was like helping
him be such a nerd at the Science Fair at
age seven. So it's like, I guess maybe Waza's dad
was living there so that he could do engineer style.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
His dad worked for Lock, Keith and Martin. He worked
in the missile program, and he grew up in an
Icler home.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yes, famous mid century designer who made these like gorgeous
mid century houses that were so indoor outdoor living and
like you know, you would pay like millions of dollars
for a now but originally designed to like be for
the perfect middle class family. Eh. And he was just like,
don't worry, darling, very don't worry, darling.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Men come home for their martinis after their job at
the missile office.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, it's the condurver thing. Got your martini, like from
missile to Martini missiles. And then like he's like splaining
somebody apricots and having this like most idyllic nineteen fifties childhood,
like driving around on his tricycle like reprogramming ham radios
with his other like autistic friends.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
And they all like sneak out at night to like
program ham radios. He's like, I actually don't know what
we did, which is also so fifties, like they were
sneaking out. He never did drugs because he was just
like nerdy and like wasn't into drinking because he literally
saw his dad be so mean and Marchini and missile
and his dad was being so mad men and angry.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, there's this interesting thing in the beginning where he's
talking about how like TVs used to work, and you
will see how positive he is in this, so like
people would take their TV tubes out and have to
like go to the grocery store to repair them. When
I was growing up, everybody who owned TVs and radios
literally had to replace the bad vacuum tubes inside themselves.
Grocery stores had the giant tube testers that everyone in

(10:37):
the family, kids, parents, everyone knew how to use. He's
being so like, from Grandma's to aunties, from cousins to kids,
we all knew how to go to the grocery store.
I mean, we knew that when the TV went bad,
you opened it up and took all the tubes to
the grocery store where you'd insert them into that machine.
There was a meter on it that would tell you
if the tube was good, weak, or bad. You could
buy replacements for the bad tubes right there in the

(10:58):
grocery store and take them home to reinsert your TV.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
This shook me not to be so like republican, being
like when things used to work. But I'm just like,
it isn't saying then the fifties just like we were
straight up all like opening the TV, going to shop.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Like new technology, people don't know how to troubleshoot their technow.
I mean, I think that's what you're getting it. It's
like if you had something you learned at least the
basics comatics of kind of like how it functioned and
like how you could replace things. And I do feel
like even as technology you progress, it's like our knowledge
of it has really minimized. And obviously AI is like
the kind of the final conclusion of that of like

(11:39):
no one having a single piece of information in their
brains anymore, because I feel like there's done some studying
by some study. I mean, I think I heard about
an article once that I'm not sure if it's true,
but it was like I don't know if someone was
talking about trying to like do computer class with like
kids these days, and it's like they don't even know
like where files are on the Mac. It's like the
Mac is already so simple the way I have.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
I've read a tweet about that article, and like it's
very our, like that's our new boomer thing, Like millennials
are so like did you hear kids don't even know
how to use word, They can't organize a desktop, they
don't know what a desktop is. But I feel like
it's like this rise and now which Apple.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Is responsible for the absolutely and fantilization of the consumer and.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
I think like what Steve was did was like make
the Apple computer so people there was a time when
people were like way more techy and knew everything and
like we're really good at computers, and Apple helped them
do that. And then Apple went further to take that
away from everyone.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
And you see this kind of like just later on
in this TV tube section, he goes, I remember wondering
what it would take to build a tube that wouldn't
burn out, or a TV that didn't need tubes to
work at all, how much easier they would be for people.
So you see as this kind of like almost like socialist,
I want to change the world aspect of like we're
going to make people's lives so much easier. Technology is

(13:01):
going to able all of this freedom for the consumer,
which obviously it has to a large extent. We're talking,
you know, look at us right now, we're recording a podcast.
In two different phrases actually reveal we're remote for this episode,
which we rarely are.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
We like to be in person, yes.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
And nothing replaces in person chemistry. Yes, and Apple and
their incredible.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Technology chology has helped us.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
But it is also incredibly alienating, and it's also I
think made a lot of people stupid. It's taken away
our lives from us, It's taken away our attention, and
now we are sort of trapped in a cycle of addiction.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
You could say, though, on the reverse side of like
technology is like what is cool? I think about the
youth because I'm actually like super in support of the
youth and like I'm not here to knock them down.
Is like it's made like certain youth also like amazing
video editors. They're like able to create like websites and
apps and just like you know, do things that but

(14:00):
I don't know how to do.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
What are some awesome youth created websites that you love?

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Oh my god, I actually have such a huge like.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
I would actually argue that websites have never been worse.
I feel like any website I go to today there's
eighteen thousand pop up ads, like embedded video playing inside
the pop up ad, like inside the article. I can't
even look at a stor.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Tell me more about video editing. And just like kids
on TikTok.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Okay, but like, isn't the secret of TikTok too it
is they're actually spending so long editing those videos I
don't know if they're any better at it than people
were ten years ago.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
They're taking definitely a long time, but they're also like
doing it like I remember taking this like classic camp
where we like edited VHS's like real to real VHS.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Oh, it was actually exec.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Insane dope machine.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
All your video art in college was being so eight millimeter.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, and they really tried to be way more reverse
in old school and taught us how to tape the
film together, like caught at literally whis scissors and tape it.
But I just got it transferred to digital and just
like it looks so from the past.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Because Okay, so you were kind of being this badass
kid as like, no, dude, I'm gonna put it on digital,
but make it look old.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah exactly, and then it did.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Teacher's mind's gonna be fucking blown. But I think you
see at this point, though, like the sort of seeds
of the switch of him and Steve Jobs are being
planted where it's like he does have this more like
positive view of what technology should do, whereas Steve Jobs
like is more of like a technofascist migl at maniac
in the like Zuckerberg musk realm, who's just like I

(15:38):
a want to make a gazillion dollars, Like, yes, I
want to like push technology forward, but like I'm imagining
in a world where people become completely addicted to our
products they cannot live without them. And also we designed
them to like fail after three years. You need to
buy anyone all the time just.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
To jump ahead. I feel like now that you brought
it up the first time, like Steve Waws discovers that
Apple was like trying to make products to fail is
around the time he was like, I actually kind of
want to leave to back it up. Steve makes when
he's working at HP, the first ever the Apple, where
he like, you see letters on the screen and he

(16:15):
gets inspired by the game Pong that he sees like
at a pizza parlor, which I thought was so cool,
and I was like, it's actually blew my mind that
I was like, wait, video games were pre home computers.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
And Steve Jobs worked at Atari. So while Steve Jobs
is at Atari, Waws is over at HP and that
all of the guys were meeting up in their garages
and being so like it was called the Homebrew the
Wild West at the Homebrew of like the early days technology,
like a lot of them were working for video game companies,
Like that's where it all went down. It also makes

(16:48):
sense though, because it's like that is the fusion of
like inputting something with some sort of device and then
it's showing up on a screen because those original apples,
they didn't even have screens. We had to hook them
up to like a screen of your own choosing.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, you had to buy one. And so like when
Steve Waz sees he's out like a pizza partner with
his first wife, Alice, and it is crazy at this
point that he's like getting girls.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Well he gets one girl, but.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Then he gets married again, and then he's married four
times and dated Kathy Griffin.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Okay, but he's the kind of guy where it's like
because he meets her when she calls into that hilarious
dial a joke thing, which he starts doing because he
gets obsessed with phones because he reads an article in
GQ magazine about people like hacking payphones and like being
able to call anywhere in the world by like tricking

(17:39):
the operator.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
This is so iconic, it's called the phone freak community.
And so when Waz reads this article, that's like a
fictional article called the Blue Box that's about people hacking
telephone lines. Not a fictional article, no, no, no, no, babe,
it was fiction.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Captain Crunch exists find but okay, did you.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Read the book book it's a fictional article. And then
he breaks into a library to test what they're saying
in the fictional article is real, and then it is
and it blows his mind. I'm kind of imagine how
you can open up Cosmo and there's a fictional article
about a slutty girl at college. Right, it was like

(18:18):
meets a guy and then becomes a nun and it
may just be inspired by true of him.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Right, Okay, I get it was probably built as fiction
because they didn't want to get these people in trouble.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, And like when he reads this article, he's like,
I had literal chills, and he's like, so I called
Steve Jobs instantly, and we put together eight hundred mz
with a twelve hundred m Z and we tapped it
together and dialed five five five.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Because this whole time this Blue Box thing is happening,
he's basically being such a cop and he keeps being
just like, I would never use this bar to make
a free phone call on the phone company's dime.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
This is not just how fucking like nerdy Steve is.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Okay, but see even though he's like a cop and
Nott whant to pay money. When he does get arrested
for putting a fake bomb in his friend's locker a
school with like a metronum device that would tick and
would tick faster once you open the locker, so people
think go back to explode, and like a teacher like
trying to like disarm it. He gets rested, he teaches
the other prisoners in jail how to shock guards with

(19:31):
electrical wires by like electrocuting the bars of the cell.
I was like, okay, you're being so ab. No, he
You're like, oh, steal from the phone company because that's
not ethical.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Around this time, also he becomes like very like anti
Vietnam War and he's like, well, my Martini missile dad
told me like we had to go kill him in
the Vietnam War. And then he's like, well, then I
started reading about it and it didn't make quite sense
to me, just like there should be peace in the world, yeah,
and just like actually, why should they disarm them? And

(20:06):
then he becomes like this. It's like very his personality
where he's like, well, I was anti Vietnam, warn I
loved like Bob Dylan, but like he is just such
like this nerve He's like, but I didn't connect. And
I was wearing just like a button up Oxford shirt
and khakis and like, yes, I had like a slim
little headband. Yeah, but I wore but like which also
my dad did. He had like one little leather headband.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Oh, I know the photo of your dad you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, yeah, But also was like so nerdy, I feel
like and not.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Doing drugs and like no, Waz was like not really
like getting to hang out with any of the hippies,
even though he was like from a logic standpoint, understanding
that the Viennam Moore didn't make sense and that the
Gulf of Tonkin was just like completely faked with this
CIA as like a pretense for war and like that's
fucked up and I don't believe that from an ethical
or logical standpoint. However, also do not want to do

(20:58):
drugs because I want to be smart my own and
I'm afraid and.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I want to like tap and deal with ram. So
basically it's like him and Steve become phone freaks. But
then he goes to college and like he also has
like such an insane like college wild ride. But then
in some years when he has like discovers this like
video game, he drops out of college with Steve jobs
to make the Apple computer and is like almost doesn't

(21:24):
do it because he's like, well, I have this job.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
At HP, Like why should I because he's so just
like the ethical thing to do is continue to make job.
And then I couldn't believe when he was so desperately
trying to get HP to like sign out. He was like, well,
everything that we've thought of while I was working at
HP is technically HP's property, So I need to tell
HP about all our ideas. And he like tells them
multiple times about like their designs for the Apple one.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
And he literally is arrest me, arrest me, and they're like,
you're not copying actually anything from HP. It's like fine,
And he's like basically going to HP like at night
and is like fiddling with so many motherboards to like
create the computer.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's like he's literally trying to give HP Apple on
a platter, and they're being like, sys, we're good, like
go off into your thing, like it's so random and nerdy,
and also like it's just kind of like I don't
know personal computers. It's like not really our thing. It's
not really gonna work, Like.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
We don't do that, like your calculator asks can like
move on.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
It's so funny because wow, HP, they didn't have the
vision then, and they still don't. They still they're still
just making fucking printers.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right still like in the corner at Staples collecting dust mama.
But I mean I guess like they're still going.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
They still exist, and people still need printers, and like
I just feel like most of HP's business at this
point is like selling like a really big printer to
just like whatever the like.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I think it's corporate sales.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Whatever the like kazakhstanding equivalent of the DMV is and
they're just like they're always just having to go repair.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
I mean printers. I'm staring at my printer right now,
Like printers are the biggest scam in the entire world,
honestly more than Apple, because like printers are just gonna
stop working, and like.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
I'm sure half their business is just repairing.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, I just want to put a pin and dial
the joke right before, or kind of as Steve was
is like creating the Apple computer. He literally runs a
dial a joke line where he bought a book of
one thousand and one the most popular joke book in
the country then, which was two thousand and one Italian
and Polish jokes, and you dial the number and like,

(23:33):
he reads a Polish joke and then the Polish embassy
was like, stop, this is racist, and he was like,
but I'm Polish and he was like, well, can I
do Italian jokes? And they were like yes, And then
he's like, years later, the Polish Embassy actually gave me
an a word for me an accomplished pull up. And
then that's how he meets his wife and then his
other like completely insane scam even though he's like so

(23:57):
for like ethics is he creates did a fake PanAm
phone line where people called him and he made up
ridiculous flights for them and they booked them with him
and they were fake flights. He was like, so, I
tried to think of the craziest worst time someone would
fly and give that the cheapest number. And he was like,

(24:18):
at one point I asked people do you want to
ride Cargo.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Sere is this other scam in college. He first goes
to college in Colorado, which he was totally enamored by
because when he went there was snowing. They didn't really
have you know, intense snow and Menlo Park at that time.
And he does this scam where he figures out how
to kind of jam the TV reception a little bit

(24:51):
and like vary in a phone way. Like there was
only like one TV before, so like all the dorm
kids are all watching TV together and then he would
be in his pocket with having this like little like
device that he created that could like make the TV staticky,
and then he would like turn it on and then
somebody would slap the TV and he would like turn
it off. So then he started like getting them to

(25:13):
do like increasingly like ridiculous things with their bodies, like
the stand on one leg and like they were kind
of falling for He was like, Oh, is this amazing
experiment with these like guinea pigs. I was getting people
to like behave like total weirdos trying to get the
TV to work like all while he's sitting in the
back of the room.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
And everyone's banging and screaming TVs and he's being so
like nerd like and be like, ah, but it isn't
in a evil I'm a nerd and I was bullied way.
It's in a more like how ridiculous is logic? How
someone would be happy to hitto TV? But not a person?

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yes and no, because I do think there is something
profoundly antisocial about that, because he's basically sitting at the
back of the class, like not talking to people, like
fucking with this TV and being like it's funny to me.
But it's like he only ever told one other person
about it. He's actually not even friends with any of
these people. He's just like kind of pulling the wires

(26:13):
from behind, and you know, he talks about how shy
he is. There's this part early on we talked about
how like really worn the porn.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
When he moves into his like first college dorm and
he's like my roommate who was named Randy weird name,
and he is like he put Playboy posters up.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
On the wall and he was like he was a
little more advanced than me, and he brought even a
Mormon girl home one time. It's like, this guy's so
much game and Waz was just like so nerdy and
like jacking out in the back of the class, like
while like fucking with TVs. Like this is what I'm saying.
It's like, I do think there's something really anti social
about it. Like, even if it's not.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Absolutely, I just wonder if he's so nerdy to this
point of not even having this self awareness that he
sense people with social skills.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
In an in cell way. Yes, I think obviously this
book would not express that resentment, but I wonder if
it's there in his private life. He goes from our
elementary school on even after starting Apple and Beyond, I
used my clever designs as an easier, more comfortable way
to communicate with others. I believe all of us humans
have an internally desocialized In my case, it came up
mainly by doing impressive things like electronics and incredibly showy

(27:24):
and clever things like pranks. It was probably the shinest
thing that in sixth grade and afterward put me on
the hunt for electronics journals. That way I could read
about electronic self without actually having to go walk up
to someone and ask questions. I was too shy to
even go to a library and ask for a book
on computers called computers, And because I was too shy
to learn the ordinary way, I ended up getting what
was to me the most important knowledge in the world accidentally.

(27:46):
And so here he is the inventor of the personal computer,
who was profoundly shy, saying that he wanted to invent
these devices that could enable communication. And of course they do.
And yet I also wonder if because all this technology
was invented by these like insane autists, I'm like, does
technology also enable shyness? Because of course today we look

(28:09):
at the absolute autism epidemic we're living through and the
way the technology could be so alienating. I wonder if
it's almost the original sin of like the shy nerds
who invented it being kind of passed down and it's
like some of that like in cel jealousy, maybe that
you're reverencing that secretly there has like been almost wetted

(28:31):
in to the motherboards and has been passed down in
motherboard motherboard.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
And I think technology just on a broad scale of
you know, the shyness and you know, like social outcast thing.
It's you know, it's not black and white. But I
think on the good side is like it's brought so
much community to people like the Steve Waughs, who would
not be able to make friends otherwise, and like, you know,

(29:01):
who can find community that way and be like, wait,
there's another friend who likes this game and they're like
in London, and I'm just like I'm in Calgary. Yes,
you know. But then of course there's a devil aside
to it, which is it keeps you in the room.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yes, I but I say, wonder if even in that
television example, like was was like, yes, he found community
with other nerds, but he still then retained this kind
of antisocialness. So I wonder if even once you find community,
it doesn't actually help you socialize any better. And then
if we look at the nerds of today, you know,

(29:37):
you go back to me going on MySpace when I
was like fourteen and like going on video game message boards,
like I was doing that. I don't know if that
was helping me become a more social person. I think
was helping me become a more social person was meeting
other people in real life. And you and me like
going to the movies as kids as teams.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Well that was beautiful, And I think we're literally vol
I think we're lucky to meet other LGBTQ folks like
each other who had the same interest in middle school.
And I think like some people that really weren't that lucky,
and like you do have to go on you know,
the message boards. And I think with Waz it's like

(30:17):
things that also helped him become actually more social were
like kind of practice in a way, like having to
work with these people, having to like then like once
he got money, like making a music.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Festival, yes, the US festival, the US. Was so excited
to meet van Halen later on.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
And then he realizes overpaying van Halen. But we talk
about antiocial. I mean, he really boils down the difference
between him and Steve Jobs, like quite plainly, where he's
like I am someone And this is when like Apple was,
you know, going public, and he basically was like, I
don't want to be like a CEO. I want to

(30:57):
stay an engineer, Like I want to be the guy
I like mixing up motherboards. And he says, I'm the
type of guy who likes to have fun with a
couple of friends in a garage working on projects. I
do not want to manage people, and I like fun
and joke. Steve Jobs is the type of guy who
basically wants to manage people, wants money, like wants power.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
And of course you know the two of them. The
company would never existed without Steve Jobs. Yeah, you needed
Steve's marketing genius. I mean Steve Jobs like came up
with the word apple because he had just been like
at an apple orchard that weekend.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
That was wasn't that crazy?

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yeah, just can be so simple, he goes, believe it
or not, it was a couple of slater We came
with a name for the partnership. I remember I was
driving seat back from the airport along Highway eighty five,
Steve coming back from a visit to Oregon to a
place he called and quote apple orchard. It's like a
place he called an apple orchard. It's just like that's
a thing that exists. Was an apple orchard? Is in
quotes in the book.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Well let's take it back.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Well, then he goes, it was actually some kind of
a commune. I guess he's saying that.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Like I think it was so seven d's and maybe
he was going to some sex retreat and being like, sure, Jobs,
it was an apple it was.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
An apple orchard. Okay, like so nerdy, and he's only
had sex with his like married wife once, and he's like,
by the.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Way, he tries to save his marriage to Alice, he
joins the Freemasons to spend more time with his wife,
but it doesn't work. I feel like she's like, I'll
do anything to get away from.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Your probably because he was just like playing pranks on
the Freemasons, like with like his weird just like remote
control motherboard in the back of the room instead of
doing their weird rituals or whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
And then he's like, well, I hated religion, but I
still like became this freemason. And then he's like, and
then we did get divorced, but I guess I'm still
a Freemason. But he gets married again, and like he
gets married four times, and his second wedding sounds so dope.
Emmy Lou Harris plays.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, by that time, he's like rich and famous and
he's just like Emilily Harris, one of my good longtime friends. Anyway,
if I could just finish the Apple story, he goes,
Steve's just in a name Apple computer. The first comment
out of my mouth was, what about Apple Records. This
was and still is the Beatles' own record label. We
both tried to come up with technical sounding names that
were better, but we couldn't think of any good ones.

(33:19):
Apple was so much better, better than any other name
we could think of, so Apple it was Apple. It
had to be. And Steve didn't think Apple Records would
have a problem since it was probably because it was
a totally different business. So there's two things here that
I think are really true. One, if you have the
same name as a company but it's a totally different
industry doesn't matter. I think that's great too. It's like

(33:40):
trust your gut. They didn't sit around thinking like we
should call it like next Gen or Infotech or like
some other kind of cool high tech sounding name. They
were just like, this just has this really beautiful, rounded,
simple quality to it that feels so positive. But obviously
the Isaac Newton Association. They were just like, it has

(34:01):
to be this, and it's like, don't fight it.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
They'd never thinking. I also think they're beginning yang is that,
like Steve Waz says, like they would get in fights.
But I think, like Steve was also like trusted jobs
vision of more like social aspects, which I would call
like naming things.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, and I think consumer facing, but it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
It's like there was so much out there, like IBM
existed and everything was being so info ram Ham operator.
But yeah, they were inventing their first personal computer. So
make it something everyone eats personal personal baby Apple a day.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
And like all good companies, the only thing you really
have to do is stick with it, and then it
becomes the thing I always tell people Google sounded silly
the first time someone heard it. Sounded like baby, look
at it now, So sim and Steve. I was just saying,
very different people, very different people. They one of their
first things, like they were building this computer for Atari,

(35:02):
and Atari had wanted them to try to make a game,
and like Waz was really good at making things with
less chips, like that's how he basically ended up being
able to design a computer that would be smaller because
someuntil then computers were massive, and like my mom was
always talking about computers being like, oh, at Stanford's a
computer it took up an entire building and it had
punch cards. You had to put in the punch card

(35:23):
to run the program. And so they designed this like
racing game for Atari that's much smaller. They both got
mono like staying up all night building this game. The
whole thing used forty five chips, and Steve paid me
half the seven hundred bucks he said they paid for him.
They were paying us based on how few chips I
could do it in. Later I found out he got

(35:45):
paid a bit more for it, like a few thousand
dollars than he had said at the time. But we
were kids, you know. He got paid one amount and
told me he got paid another. He wasn't honest with me,
and I was hurt, but I didn't make a big
deal about it or Yeah, it's like what esex always
mattered to me. And I still don't really understand why

(36:06):
he would have gotten paid one thing and told me
he gotten paid another. But you know, people are different,
And in no way do I regret the experience at
Atari with Steve jobs. He was my best friend, was
what and I still feel extremely linked with him. I
wish him well and it was a great project that
was so fun. Anyway, in the long run of money,
Steve and I both ended up getting very comfortable money

(36:27):
wise from my work founding Apple. Just a few years later,
it's retainly didn't a d up too much, like.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Such crazy tea, because this is their first project together,
like before the Apple one computer, and this is early
on the book and he's kind of laying it out
for everyone, being like yeah, no, no, no, he got paid
four thousand and I got seven hundred. I'm cool and
we are linked.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
We are linked, and obviously we're both incredibly wealthy from
our work founding Apple, which you've may have heard of. However,
he obviously is a snake in the grass and I
would never try. It's like, wow, that is so shady.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
It's so shady, and it's like.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
I can't even wrap my head around how shady it is.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
It really makes you think about when people are starting
out and that first paycheck, that first view of fame.
It feels like that's the only thing you're gonna get. Yeah,
people show you who they are, believe it.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
I just you know, because you and I are always
starting businesses together, and like we're honest about money. We
never lie, and like it's like if I thought that
I should have more money than you, I would just
tell you. I'd be like, listen, Lily, I got a
check from four k for Atari. I'm taking three k
ultimately that's what's happening. But here's your one K. I

(37:44):
thank you so much for the work that you've done.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
You know, my mother always says, you know, the main
thing in a marriage, you need to be able to
talk about finance its finances. And if I can skip
ahead for a second, this is when Walls doesn't quit
because he says he still works at Apple, but you know,
they're making the Apple two, they're making the Apple three.

(38:06):
There's drama. He's like, can I just go back to
like making something? And he has all these devices. He
has his laser disc player now in his big Santa
Cruz mansion. He has his Bang and Olsen record player,
which I held, so is the record player I grew
up with your dad and was was. And he's like,

(38:27):
I wish I just had one remote for everything. Oh
and he wants to create a universal remote, which he does,
but he's like, I have to leave Apple to do this,
so he leaves Apple. They're like, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
I'm saying that he leaves Apple to create a universal remote,
which to this day is still just like not really.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
You such an as seen on Team such.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
An as Tevy thing that actually just doesn't work, and like, yes,
we all need them, and it's like we all know
what happens when we go home to our parents' homes.
There are six remotes. They can't figure around anyone.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
They're scared of them, and they're like, don't touch that
one because like actually that will ruin everything.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Will ruin everything, And it's like they still haven't figured
it out. I mean, I guess we just all stream now,
that's how how they solved the problem. Was streaming was
just having it all come out of one TV and
now we don't have other objects, and then we.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Have we're streaming Spotify to our Bluetooth, so you don't
have need a remote to turn on your subword.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
I guess technically it's like my Rokum does control my
Sono soundbar. Thank you to Roku for kind of solving
that issue.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
But like was walked so Roku could run, Like.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I don't think they were pulling up his old designs
for his Universe remote and they like, oh, but come.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
On, I mean, like they wouldn't even have the idea
of was didn't and the idea of having one remote.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
The idea of one remote, no I mean it was huge.
I couldn't believe that other guy, Ron Wayne, who they
founded Apple with, who had ten percent of Apple and
they bought him out for eight hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Eight one hundred dollars. Wait before I get into the
Steve jobs remote tension, ISA was is so lit and
basically like when right before they went public, the board
of Apple wanted to be like, well, only executives get
their first ticket shares and Waz was like, no, that's
not cool, Like let's be more socialist about it, like

(40:20):
it should be the engineers, it should be the secretaries.
And they were like, you're crazy, You're losing so much money.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
And he let them all buy his shares. He said,
group blocks of his shares for five dollars to various employees,
and only like forty employees took him up on it.
But I'm sure they're all millionaires now.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Thank you to literally millionaires. It's also this thing of
him being like he'd already had a lot of money.
He was like, how much money do you need? Like
my passion is making remotes in a garage. I don't
need to hoard.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
The man wants to tinker, he doesn't need a bigger
and bigger and bigger house.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Whenever, like I feel like, you hear about some random
person having money and they're like, oh, well they got
Apple stock.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Really it's always that's always like, oh, she was actually
the in house massuse for Apple in the early days.
Now she's a billionaire.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
So they go public money money money they're making like
the Apple X three or whatever. He's just like, well,
this makes no sense because the Apple two is what's selling.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah, he's got such a be in his bonnet about
the Apple three not being good. It's like, because the
Apple three had a screen. It's like, honey, at some point,
we're gonna have to put a screen on this computer.
When did you first get like an Apple commit Did
you guys have a computer before you had like your iMac?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
I think when I was like nine, I remember my
dad having the thickest Apple laptop, Apple laptop literally Apple.
He was like an early Apple laptop and it was
like gray and like nine hundred pounds and I want
to say that was like ninety six or something. And

(41:56):
then we had also like a huge Apple computer.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
So that's my mother about this. She texted me, did
not have Apple at the beginning in the eighties. Hancock,
this is the company she worked at, kept to PCs
and huge IBM mainframes. We had quote dumb terminals at
our desks which could access the mainframe. They were not portable.
Then we got PCs which were portable and then plugged
into a home base that had a big screen back
in the office. My first work PC was a Toshiba.

(42:23):
Of course, you're at the dial up to get a connection.
You also had to insert floppy disk for word processing
in spreadsheets. I had a big modem in the sewing
machine room. Oh, in our house. Okay, Then she's sending
this photo of this Toshiba T eleven hundred. She goes,
the Toshiba was my first laptop. You were not even
born yet, so she had.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
A Toshiba laptop in like eighty five.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
This thing is basically a word processor. The screen is
like it's just text where.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
It's like you could send it to a printer. I
remember using a word processor as a kid and just
like writing random stuff.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
What were you.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Probably like weird stories and stuff. Sorry, I tinker, I'm weird.
I'm literally walls. I was probably just like. There was
a gangster living in Cambridge. His name was Frankie the
rat Y.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Wow, that's wild. Oh wait, I wanted to ask because
he did so many science fairs. Did you do science?
I think you must have because you were in middle
school with me. There was a science fair. Yeah, what
was your science project?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
I was so bad at science. Yeah, Like I don't remember.
I'm like, I must have done something with This book
really brought made me think of was like the robotics
class I took in college, where I really like, it's
like theoretically, like it would be so cool to be
like tinkering and wires and like I always did love

(43:50):
going to radio shack, but I'm also so not tech
brained at all.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
You found it really gender affirming to be in a
radio shack.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
But yes, and like I love just circuit boards, and
I feel like I was always like taking part of
circred boards to like put it on my wall in
more of a collage mixed media space.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Okay, because you were also being like, it's so like Hacker.
You were kind of into like Hacker in like a
Berlin aesthetic way.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yes, it was a Cocker aesthetic and like the greens
of it and the switches. I thought that was so
cool so I took those robotics class and it just
like the guy who thought it was such a walls
and it was like just assumed you knew a certain
like a little bit of code, and he would just
give these assignments and I'd be like we but dial
it back, like literally what? And I feel like he
just kind of felt bad for me. And I tried

(44:34):
to like put two wires together, but nothing really happened there.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
And did you pass robotics?

Speaker 2 (44:42):
I passed. I think I tried okay, and I had
like a partner, but I didn't really it didn't click.
What did you make in the science fair?

Speaker 1 (44:50):
I mean I kind of ripped off some girl from
who I'd seen done it the year before. But I
did this thing that was like testing senses, and it
was like to see which of your senses was the
was powerful. I called it common sense. And I did
like this whole experiment where my parents were friends with
this guy who worked at Marty's Liquors in Newton, and
so I set up a table outside the liquor store

(45:12):
and I would blindfold like random pedestrians what with my
mother's velvet scarf. I remember that velvet scarff and I
would like, feed them a pair while holding an apple
under their nose, and nine times out of ten the
person would think they were eating an apple.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Sorry, this is the craziest thing in the entire world.
You're outside a liquor store Newton, blindfolding people with a
velvet scarf. It's like, okay, can play.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
It was actually really kinky and.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
You're feeding them fruit.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
What is that? And I learned. I learned that smell
is a very powerful set, more so than taste.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Wow. Yeah, that's what they always say.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
And they are right.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
We have to go to segments and we haven't even
talked about well, I mean, it's not featured in the
book that Waws and Kathy Griffin dated, which is how
I kind of had heard of.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Was I'm saying because we watched him on Life on
the d List and he's just always riding his segue
and she'd be like, there Isa was with his segue
and they actually.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Only did for a year, but there's such a cute
couple and she's always just being so like, here's my
billionaire boyfriend. In the episode I watched that she takes
him to a bear convention and like takes him to
the bear mall and is like showing him so many floggers.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
I know it didn't work out, but.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Then they broke up and she said they actually never
slept together.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, I was gonna be my guess because I just
feel like he actually is not verosexual and he's ace.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Well, he got married right after they broke up, to
some woman that he's.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Still married to, and you think they're fucking.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I think he does fuck. I think in a weird way.
Sure she has tons of.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Sexual hang ups own like so many like weird fetishes.
I honestly think that like you rub up against wahs
and he premature ejaculates and it's over.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Or he's like maybe he's watching, or it's more of
just kind of a petting scenario.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
I just don't think that he is rogering anyone. I
don't think he's giving anyone the business.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
No, I don't think like was is giving like Janet
his fourth wife the business, or he gave Alice his
first wife the business.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, but he's sweet and he has a good I.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Think he's very sweet. I mean, he has three kids,
so he's made love three times. We know that. Okay,
just before we wrap this up, of just This is
this crazy Steve Job story where Steve Jobs is mad
that WA was is using this design company, the same
design company that Apple uses to create his remote. Turned

(47:45):
out Steve Jobs is over at Frog for some reason
and saw a CL nine prototype. From what I heard,
he threw it against a wall and put it in
a box and said send it to him, as if
Apple owned it. The Frog guy told me that Steve
Jobs told him they couldn't do any work for us
because Apple owned Frog. Not true, I never knew it,
but Frog told us they felt uncomfortable doing without Apple's permission.

(48:06):
Apple was a big customer, so then we're going to
do it.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Well.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
I wasn't gonna argue. I don't truly know what the
real story was, but I thought, good, fine, we'll go
somewhere else and we did.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Well that's that.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Yeah, it's you to be completely like so like dramatic
movie and like throwing a remote and send it the
fuck back to him, that short fat loser and was
is like, hmm, well you actually don't own Frog the
design company. More on.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
I mean, the fact that Steve Jobs was threatened by
Universal Remode is also a little insane. It's like Jobs.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Simmer, you're about to make the iPods. What does she wear?

Speaker 1 (48:58):
What does she eat? How does she live? How does
she live? Do you think he still lives in a
gorgeous like mid century Eicler home or well?

Speaker 2 (49:06):
He describes his favorite home as his first house, which
sounded a little more like rustic California.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
With the naughty wood, the naughty pine.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
But it also has like a mural of dogs. So
I think his home is more like beautiful yeat imported
naughty pine and it's like gorgeous woods.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I think that's not true. I think he was reminiscing
about the beauty of that home because the current one
is just a boring McMansion and he lives in just
Sunny Vale or Menma Park or where he just lives
in Silicon Valley in a boring Berry Luckerberg like five
bedroom new McMansion.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I guess right, he's wishing for his knotty yes, because
like that's how they make housles now, and like yes,
there's indoor outdoor like sliding doors that lead up to
the pool in the grill, but it still looked pretty new.
I think his bed is like a huge four poster
like cedar bed.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Hmmm, that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Like I think he's folding onto he I think he's
holding onto wood in some way. Also, he is someone
who loves technology, so I think there are like so
many silly things where it's like this side of the
wall actually is a cooling wall.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yes, but I do think it's a kind of in
this early two thousands way. Like the kitchen like has
like one of those hoods that's like the curved glass
hood m. There's a lot of like maroon like kitchen
cabinetry and like.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, like I don't think he has that fridge with
the TV that like can charge your phone in it.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
No, but he has a fridge that like has that
actual voice. Yes, it has like a voice. I think
it is ice activated fridge, Hello Steve. Yeah, it's more
the dream of what technology is. And he's like programming
his garage door opener to like play like Kukaracha, like
be silly.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Definitely, which was my dream always as child, was like
I'm gonna have an apartment and when I walk in
the door, there's gonna be a censor that plays Sinatra.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
O babe, we can do that?

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Which happened for you to do that?

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:03):
What does he eat? I mean he like literally I
think he just like loves like pizza. He's so like
nineteen seventies, like in this like Toastino's pizza rolls.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Because it's like, oh, late night program, I mean like
we have to eat pizza.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Yeah, although don't you think his third wife is being
more like I'm worried about cholesterol role, Yes, I mean
I'm worried about this cholesterol.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Right, it's salmon and salads. And then he's like sneaking
a pizza, being like I was bad today.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Yeah, but they're also having just like a huge kind
of like because he's so like warm Buffett and like
I only have moneyn things that I need, Like he
is Costco membership and they are massive like tub of
like off brand cheese doodles that he's like dipping into, oh.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
In the pantry, and his hands are so orange.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Yes, yeah, he's been caught orange handed.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
And then like he's randomly thinking some snack is so
cool because it's modern like a keen watchip and he's
like spends a week eating it, being like have you
seen these things they're made? Get this out of pasta?

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah? Okay, what does he wear like golf polos big pants.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
In his bear trip doctors, he looked a little less
sloppy than I had remembered. He was in like a
sweater polo and just like big doctors. Yea, and then
he was wearing a huge straight to Hell Kathy Griffin
tor T shirt.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
So cute.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Okay, who are you in the book?

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Do you think I'm Steve Jobs? Because I'm brandy genius.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
I kind of thing like I'm was your Jobs.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
And you're tinkering away, But like I'm.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Not obviously like Steve was, because I like literally like
I know it ram.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Is, but like coming back to this original sin thing though,
I'm kind of like you are like so social and
you're not like playing pranks on people as a way
to like interact with them because you don't know how
to interact with them.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
No, Ultimately, I think like I am someone he's hiring
to like help with one of his rock festivals.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Yeah, you're Emilu Harris.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, and I'm just like sure I'll play your wedding. Wait,
actually that is me. I guess I was like wads
because I'm just like silly, but I don't have the
tech expertise to like make a dial a joke like
phone line.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
But I'm not jobs because I wouldn't lie to my
best friend about money.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
You're not that evil, Like yeah, like you would come
home from a sex orchard and be like, Lily, I
haven't get this. It's so simple. It's just Apple, and.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
I'd be like, wait, I mean like that's it, we're
going with that. Sorry, that's that done.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Like sorry, But like I don't think you're also like
lying about the three thousand.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
So maybe I'm more like van Halen's wife.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yeah, who's like Heather Lockler. Yeah, yeah, because it's like
are you throwing a calculator being like send it back
to him?

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Like kind of but just for the drama, I really
hope I'm not the guy who sold his Apple stock
fore hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
No, you're not that.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
No, I'm holding.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
You're absolutely holding anyway.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
I don't know. I give this book like I don't
know two out of five motherboards, Like it's really upbeat
in a way that's almost like shocking. I'm sure there
like is some Mad for TV movie about the founding
of Apple that's so like the social network.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
I was gonna watch it the night did there's the
Ashton Kutcher movie.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
About Steve Jobs. Yeah, it's like, I'm sure if you
were writing that movie and you're sharking or whatever, like,
I'm sure you would find it really difficult to be
inspired by this book.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
I give it two point nine pongs out of pong.
What I liked about this book is it, like is
very different from stuff we've read in the way that
it's like literally about like a nerdy guy, like talking
about Ram and being a phone freak and like starting
phone lines, which it doesn't follow kind of the norms
of that, Like, it's much more in this nerdy guy's brain.

(54:53):
Was I skimming the parts about Ram, Yes, But that's
also why I like the book, because it literally is
just a memoir about Ram and like making remotes.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
And I thought there were some nice descriptions, like you know,
about how computers work and binary code and how it's
a series of switches and everything. You know, there is
some beauty to the way he's fucking freaks minds works.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
We're fucking nerds, like we're also known of those books. Sorry, dudes,
we're not fucking nerds like ham Radio. Sorry take me
to the Mall and it's like he's so nerdy in
the way that it's like there is just these little
bits of tea about like his drama with Steve Jobs.
But at the end of the day, he is just
like the Segue billionaire who's so random and positive.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
If there's one lesson in this book, it made me think, like,
you know, the joy he has towards the iPod and
like towards yoursual computer, I'm like, I did have that
joy about technology when we were younger, and yeah, and
like when our family first got a G four, I
thought it was so fine. It was like so cool
and exciting, and like, I don't know, I feel like
I so rarely have those moments because it's so embedded
in our lives, but like every now and then, like

(56:04):
I just downloaded some new software for able to the
other day, this cool new plug in, and I've been
enjoying using it and all the sounds on it, and
I'm like, you know, if we can just find a
way to recapture the joy of tech in your life,
And it may be obviously about having, you know, using
it less, I.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Think having it less and then finding specific things.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
But appreciating it more and be like, wait a minute,
it is incredible that I can talk to my friend
in France on this device that I keep in my pocket,
you know, like reserve some joy for that, but like
put it away it gets to be too much.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
No, I don't think I've ever been rocked as much
as I was when I got my first iod.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
That was insane, being on the fucking tea in.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Boston, literally being on.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Michelle Branch in my headphones.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Crazy swirling around, going with that to Michelle Brand Yeah,
wild times. Yeah, wow, now chic, it was the white
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
All right. You guys, find your joy.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Find your joy in tech and like be happy in Tinker,
whatever you tinker with Tinker.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Best best our producer on this show is the very
talented hand and beautiful excuse me, Darby Masters, whose serial
number is F nine six G four l x W nine.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
This episode of Celebrity book Club Program with Stephen and
Lily was made with eight hundred megabytes of RAM that
Christina Everett found, who was the executive producer. Our supervising producer,
Abu Zafar I met in a Hammer radio class. Well

(57:57):
we just got along really well. We didn't hang out
much outside in our freedom time, but we got along
very well in class.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Our engineer who does work with a X eighty six
based operating system is Beheed Fraser. He is very, very talented.
Please hire him. We're all of your bits and bobs.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Our musician who made our theme song performed at my
cool music procival that I imitated from Woodstock. His name is
Stephen Philpschorst.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
We originally created this podcast on a NCR Doss Software
Bus three point zero DCP seventeen hundred computer, which of
course they do not make anymore. That was recorded at
Prologue Projects and we wish them well

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Absolutely, I wish you all the RAM in the world.