January 14, 2020 • 9 mins
James Kotecki of C Space Studio speaks with Cathy Butler, CEO, Organic.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm James Kotechie. You're listening to the C Space
Studio podcast interviews with technology, media and marketing leaders from CS. Hi,
I'm James Kotechi. You're here with me in the C
Space Studio from CS joined by Kathy Butler, the CEO
(00:22):
of Verganic. Thank you so much for Thank you for
having me in here today. This is great. So what
is Organic? How do you define your brand? Yeah? Organic
is a digital agency. We were founded in so we
are definitely one of the original bounding agencies in the
digital space. What we do is we design resilient brands
so that our brands and our businesses matter not just tomorrow,
(00:43):
but five ten years from now. And how we do
that is by deeply connecting brand, storytelling, data, personalization to
that conversion moment. The term organic implies that people are
seeking this stuff out obviously, is that is that the
whole brand positioning there, that you're creating brands that people
are going to want to be gravitating toward rather than
things that are needing to be pushed out necessarily for sure,
(01:05):
and we are working with clients to help really define
what resiliency means for their organization, whether it's a heritage
brand like Wells Fargo or significant Um, but somewhat newer
brands like Carters, And how do they define that meaning
for their consumers so that they're really building their brands
and businesses to be a future proof Take me through
(01:25):
the process of somebody that comes to you and says
I need your help doing exactly what you just described
and storytelling and finding that meaning. How do you walk
them through that? How do you do that? Yeah? Great question.
I think for us, we think about how do we
build brands like software and technology, and so we're always
looking for a couple of things through the lens of commerce,
culture and consumer behaviors and not just clusters of consumer behavior,
(01:48):
but really one on one UM data that is showing
kind of if you are person A versus person B,
how are we going to meaningful Lee connects emotion and
storytelling to driving that per just journey for you. And
so clients will come to us with particular business problems
that they're looking to solve. We go through a process
to really deeply understand their business UM and then we
(02:10):
come with a number of different kinds of solutions that
we bring to market. You mentioned one on one data.
Does that mean that you're combining a certain element of
qualitative research as well? Are you even just interviewing, having
conversations maybe like this one to kind of figure out
what's on people's minds. Yeah, quant qual first party data
anonymized of course, UM the second party data research basically
(02:31):
aggregating all sorts of data in order to look at
it through the lens of culture and behavior. Are there
macro trends that you see in the data as you
do this research for different companies that might be interesting
to people? Yeah, for sure. I think if you think
about UM, I'll just use a broad audience that like millennials,
for example, how they're approaching UH insurance. UM. They are
(02:51):
really thinking about it in a much more non traditional
kind of way, where historically we were looking at UH
insurance the doorway to insurance from a traditional kind of
home life auto standpoint. Now there's you know, interesting themes
that we're seeing around looking at renters insurance first, and
the next potential logical staff might be life insurance UH
(03:14):
and then auto and then home. So it's an interesting
kind of different way to look at what our traditional
models to think about life cycle for a consumer and
in that case would it would it get to the
point of almost helping the company redefine how they define
what insurance is overall, less so on the product side,
I think it is more meaningful if you think about
(03:35):
how we're going to develop that relationship and that relationship
over time and so the emphasis on customer lifetime value
is still there, but I think there is a redefinition
of what loyalty means and how we are continuing to
maintain relationships. You mentioned data, you mentioned qualitative research. There's
there's of course an idea out there. I think many
people probably believe it's flawed, that there's creativity and then
(03:55):
there's data, and there's somehow in opposition to each other.
I know you have a different take on that. Yeah,
for me to end, for us at Organic, it's really
the plus sign in between how do we use data
to feel creativity and how do we find creativity in data?
And so we can't really do one without the other,
and that's how I think we are meaningfully able to
reach our consumers and develop new approaches for our clients.
(04:18):
You became the CEO of Organic about a year ago, right, um,
Actually less than that, about seven months ago, So what
have you learned in that time? So much? It has
been fabulously challenging bringing um kind of a new point
of view into an agency that has been around for
a long time, has had a lot of success, has
had a lot of history. I think the three things
(04:38):
that I've learned there is one obviously our talent is amazing,
but always hungry to learn more. And how do we
rise to that occasion to make sure that our agency
is a really wonderful and um fulfilling place to work
to the context of change is very different um and
very I think scary to some and and yet a
lot of people are embracing it. And so for us,
(05:00):
it's thinking about the very significant portion of our staff
is to give them meaningful value as part of that change.
And then three our clients, we have to bring them
along our change journey um and recognizing the past, but
really clearly articulate for them what's what's in it for
them working with us in the future. Does the term agency? Uh?
(05:21):
Is the term agency still the right term? I mean,
if we think about the mad men ere, I mean,
an agency is the place that draws an advertisements for
you and comes up with some catchy slogans. I talked
to a number people here in the C space studio
from you know, agencies and entities alike agencies and they're
all across the board and helping companies do so many
different things. What does that term mean now? I think
it means a lot of things. UM. I think my
definition if it is really partnership. I think we've moved
(05:44):
away where from places where our agencies are doing things
in a black box and then telling the clients what
to do. We are super collaborative and actually bringing in
our clients from week one UM with hypotheses, building all
the way to measuring our work in market it and
making sure that they feel that they can focus on
the right things UM as part of their business while
(06:06):
we are in parallel focusing on things that are able.
That talking to Kathy Butler, the CEO of CEO of Organic,
so tell me about risk taking and creativity when maybe
you don't have enough data to go on. I think
that if you put something in market very quickly, you're
going to get that data. And I think the challenge
is closing the gap of comfort for our clients to
(06:26):
actually be those risk takers and giving them UM as
much as we can to get them to get into market,
yet at the same time always have a backup in
case something goes wrong. Do you think there's a way
to position a brand or build a brand that it
would be more able for that brands to then go
out and take risks and maybe even just be able
(06:47):
to say that didn't work and move on to the
next thing. Maybe consumers are more willing to accept certain
brands taking risks and others. I think that that is
the rural definition of a resilient brand, that you're always
trying things in the marketplace, whether it's messaging, whether some
products and services, or whether it's new business models and
being okay and transparent with your consumers that you're trying
(07:07):
to something new. I mean, if you think about Casper,
who's not a client but certainly a brand that I admire,
who knew what they were going to get by sending
mattresses through the mail and then having people video tape them.
I think that's a great experiment in and of itself
as a proofpoint. So we're dealing with things that kind
of go to the heart and soul of companies. Are
there ethical principles that you use in terms of how
(07:28):
you use technology or how do you do this process
that guide you as you take companies through this journey. Yeah.
I think if you think about the values of our
company UM as organic, it's always about transparency. It is
always about being truthful UM. And I think that that
is what's needed to be a resilient brand these days,
because there's so much information to be shared, to be collected,
(07:51):
to be researched, that there's really no place to hide.
Do you have something that you would like to ask
one of your industry peers? Is there a question you
want to Yeah? I think that the question that frankly
I get all the time is what keeps me motivated? UM?
And so I'm constantly asking that of other people, what
is going to make you really excited to be part
(08:13):
of every day? UM? And the answers I always get,
or that I always say, is that every day is
a new challenge for me UM and I live out
of the by the life of I have a theme
for the year that really is a guiding principle UM.
And so the question that I've asked is really around
what what's the motivating factor for you? Well, then that
(08:33):
just great leads right to my next question, what's your
theme for the year. My theme for the year is
to not take the answer no, yeah, and how and
and can give an example of what that what that means?
Because if pitching somebody and they say no, what does
that mean that you relentlessly keep asking them? Or does
that mean something else? I think it's the definition of
what the question is first, because there's sometimes when if
(08:55):
there's a binary answer um, but there are other times
if you redefine it as well, what id they just?
What could they say? No? Why would I? Why wouldn't
I do that? And so if you flip it the
other way as a why wouldn't I just? Is a
world of possibility there, reducing the power of know and
embracing the power of possibility. Yeah, exactly. Great well. Kathy Butler,
(09:16):
the CEO of Organic, thank you so much for joining us.
Thanks you studio today. I really appreciate it. This podcast
is in partnership with the iHeart Podcast Network.
Hi, I'm James Kotechie. You're listening to the C Space
Studio podcast interviews with technology, media and marketing leaders from CS. Hi,
I'm James Kotechi. You're here with me in the C
Space Studio from CS joined by Kathy Butler, the CEO
(00:22):
of Verganic. Thank you so much for Thank you for
having me in here today. This is great. So what
is Organic? How do you define your brand? Yeah? Organic
is a digital agency. We were founded in so we
are definitely one of the original bounding agencies in the
digital space. What we do is we design resilient brands
so that our brands and our businesses matter not just tomorrow,
(00:43):
but five ten years from now. And how we do
that is by deeply connecting brand, storytelling, data, personalization to
that conversion moment. The term organic implies that people are
seeking this stuff out obviously, is that is that the
whole brand positioning there, that you're creating brands that people
are going to want to be gravitating toward rather than
things that are needing to be pushed out necessarily for sure,
(01:05):
and we are working with clients to help really define
what resiliency means for their organization, whether it's a heritage
brand like Wells Fargo or significant Um, but somewhat newer
brands like Carters, And how do they define that meaning
for their consumers so that they're really building their brands
and businesses to be a future proof Take me through
(01:25):
the process of somebody that comes to you and says
I need your help doing exactly what you just described
and storytelling and finding that meaning. How do you walk
them through that? How do you do that? Yeah? Great question.
I think for us, we think about how do we
build brands like software and technology, and so we're always
looking for a couple of things through the lens of commerce,
culture and consumer behaviors and not just clusters of consumer behavior,
(01:48):
but really one on one UM data that is showing
kind of if you are person A versus person B,
how are we going to meaningful Lee connects emotion and
storytelling to driving that per just journey for you. And
so clients will come to us with particular business problems
that they're looking to solve. We go through a process
to really deeply understand their business UM and then we
(02:10):
come with a number of different kinds of solutions that
we bring to market. You mentioned one on one data.
Does that mean that you're combining a certain element of
qualitative research as well? Are you even just interviewing, having
conversations maybe like this one to kind of figure out
what's on people's minds. Yeah, quant qual first party data
anonymized of course, UM the second party data research basically
(02:31):
aggregating all sorts of data in order to look at
it through the lens of culture and behavior. Are there
macro trends that you see in the data as you
do this research for different companies that might be interesting
to people? Yeah, for sure. I think if you think
about UM, I'll just use a broad audience that like millennials,
for example, how they're approaching UH insurance. UM. They are
(02:51):
really thinking about it in a much more non traditional
kind of way, where historically we were looking at UH
insurance the doorway to insurance from a traditional kind of
home life auto standpoint. Now there's you know, interesting themes
that we're seeing around looking at renters insurance first, and
the next potential logical staff might be life insurance UH
(03:14):
and then auto and then home. So it's an interesting
kind of different way to look at what our traditional
models to think about life cycle for a consumer and
in that case would it would it get to the
point of almost helping the company redefine how they define
what insurance is overall, less so on the product side,
I think it is more meaningful if you think about
(03:35):
how we're going to develop that relationship and that relationship
over time and so the emphasis on customer lifetime value
is still there, but I think there is a redefinition
of what loyalty means and how we are continuing to
maintain relationships. You mentioned data, you mentioned qualitative research. There's
there's of course an idea out there. I think many
people probably believe it's flawed, that there's creativity and then
(03:55):
there's data, and there's somehow in opposition to each other.
I know you have a different take on that. Yeah,
for me to end, for us at Organic, it's really
the plus sign in between how do we use data
to feel creativity and how do we find creativity in data?
And so we can't really do one without the other,
and that's how I think we are meaningfully able to
reach our consumers and develop new approaches for our clients.
(04:18):
You became the CEO of Organic about a year ago, right, um,
Actually less than that, about seven months ago, So what
have you learned in that time? So much? It has
been fabulously challenging bringing um kind of a new point
of view into an agency that has been around for
a long time, has had a lot of success, has
had a lot of history. I think the three things
(04:38):
that I've learned there is one obviously our talent is amazing,
but always hungry to learn more. And how do we
rise to that occasion to make sure that our agency
is a really wonderful and um fulfilling place to work
to the context of change is very different um and
very I think scary to some and and yet a
lot of people are embracing it. And so for us,
(05:00):
it's thinking about the very significant portion of our staff
is to give them meaningful value as part of that change.
And then three our clients, we have to bring them
along our change journey um and recognizing the past, but
really clearly articulate for them what's what's in it for
them working with us in the future. Does the term agency? Uh?
(05:21):
Is the term agency still the right term? I mean,
if we think about the mad men ere, I mean,
an agency is the place that draws an advertisements for
you and comes up with some catchy slogans. I talked
to a number people here in the C space studio
from you know, agencies and entities alike agencies and they're
all across the board and helping companies do so many
different things. What does that term mean now? I think
it means a lot of things. UM. I think my
definition if it is really partnership. I think we've moved
(05:44):
away where from places where our agencies are doing things
in a black box and then telling the clients what
to do. We are super collaborative and actually bringing in
our clients from week one UM with hypotheses, building all
the way to measuring our work in market it and
making sure that they feel that they can focus on
the right things UM as part of their business while
(06:06):
we are in parallel focusing on things that are able.
That talking to Kathy Butler, the CEO of CEO of Organic,
so tell me about risk taking and creativity when maybe
you don't have enough data to go on. I think
that if you put something in market very quickly, you're
going to get that data. And I think the challenge
is closing the gap of comfort for our clients to
(06:26):
actually be those risk takers and giving them UM as
much as we can to get them to get into market,
yet at the same time always have a backup in
case something goes wrong. Do you think there's a way
to position a brand or build a brand that it
would be more able for that brands to then go
out and take risks and maybe even just be able
(06:47):
to say that didn't work and move on to the
next thing. Maybe consumers are more willing to accept certain
brands taking risks and others. I think that that is
the rural definition of a resilient brand, that you're always
trying things in the marketplace, whether it's messaging, whether some
products and services, or whether it's new business models and
being okay and transparent with your consumers that you're trying
(07:07):
to something new. I mean, if you think about Casper,
who's not a client but certainly a brand that I admire,
who knew what they were going to get by sending
mattresses through the mail and then having people video tape them.
I think that's a great experiment in and of itself
as a proofpoint. So we're dealing with things that kind
of go to the heart and soul of companies. Are
there ethical principles that you use in terms of how
(07:28):
you use technology or how do you do this process
that guide you as you take companies through this journey. Yeah.
I think if you think about the values of our
company UM as organic, it's always about transparency. It is
always about being truthful UM. And I think that that
is what's needed to be a resilient brand these days,
because there's so much information to be shared, to be collected,
(07:51):
to be researched, that there's really no place to hide.
Do you have something that you would like to ask
one of your industry peers? Is there a question you
want to Yeah? I think that the question that frankly
I get all the time is what keeps me motivated? UM?
And so I'm constantly asking that of other people, what
is going to make you really excited to be part
(08:13):
of every day? UM? And the answers I always get,
or that I always say, is that every day is
a new challenge for me UM and I live out
of the by the life of I have a theme
for the year that really is a guiding principle UM.
And so the question that I've asked is really around
what what's the motivating factor for you? Well, then that
(08:33):
just great leads right to my next question, what's your
theme for the year. My theme for the year is
to not take the answer no, yeah, and how and
and can give an example of what that what that means?
Because if pitching somebody and they say no, what does
that mean that you relentlessly keep asking them? Or does
that mean something else? I think it's the definition of
what the question is first, because there's sometimes when if
(08:55):
there's a binary answer um, but there are other times
if you redefine it as well, what id they just?
What could they say? No? Why would I? Why wouldn't
I do that? And so if you flip it the
other way as a why wouldn't I just? Is a
world of possibility there, reducing the power of know and
embracing the power of possibility. Yeah, exactly. Great well. Kathy Butler,
(09:16):
the CEO of Organic, thank you so much for joining us.
Thanks you studio today. I really appreciate it. This podcast
is in partnership with the iHeart Podcast Network.
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